Use Magic Device Spell Slots? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Use Magic Device Spell Slots? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SpoonyBard
04-10-07, 10:49 AM I've notced a lot of magic items in the Magic Item Compendium (specificially Runestaves) allow you to use a spell slot you have to cast the spells in the item. Is there any way to activate these with Use Magic Device?

Also, I noticed a few items that are activated by using activations of Bardic Music or other effects. I know that you can emulate HAVING a class feature with a DC (20+Level the class gets that feature), so you can trigger items that say "If you HAVE Bardic Music" but is there any way to UMD the items that require using one of your daily bardic music effects?
jaelis
04-10-07, 11:05 AM It's a subject of some debate, but IMHO, the answer is no, UMD doesn't work, for the reason you described. (You don't actually have any slots or uses of bardic music to sacrifice.)

But it is true that the skill description in the PHB talks about using turning attemps to activate a chalice via UMD. This example is inconsistent with the rules that are stated in the same place. I'm inclined to say the example is wrong, but you could reasonably feel instead that the rule is worded poorly and the example is supposed to illustrate how it really works. In that case, you would presumably say yes to spell slots and bardic music as well.
SpoonyBard
04-10-07, 11:10 AM So, ruling that, for Bardic Music... You'd make the UMD check the first time you picked it up each day, and then you'd be able to use it (check-20) times per day? I can't imagine allowing someone with UMD to be able to use an item MORE times per day than the emulated Bard.
tarkin
04-10-07, 11:27 AM There is no way to activate this using UMD.

I will quote the actual words you used:

"allow you to use a spell slot you have to cast the spells in the item. "

UMD has nothing to do with casting spells. Therefore it does not work.
SpoonyBard
04-10-07, 11:30 AM Okay, so Runestaff might be out, but what about the Bardic Music stuff?

I'm looking for stuff for a huge CHA character to do with UMD, and all I've really got so far is "Whirling blade" plus a few standard things (Enlarge, Lesser Vigor, etc)
Zaistars69
04-10-07, 11:51 AM It looks like the bardic music thing works fine. As long as you are able to emulate a bard of the appropriate level. so to activate a magic item that requires one use of bardic music you have to emulate a bard of first level. This number of uses still has a daily limit so to activate that item again you would have to emulate a 2nd level bard, and up and up and up until you no longer can emulate that character.
this is also why you can emulate having turn undead for the chalace. Again it is still limited by a number of uses per day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SpoonyBard 04-10-07, 10:49 AM	I've notced a lot of magic items in the Magic Item Compendium (specificially Runestaves) allow you to use a spell slot you have to cast the spells in the item. Is there any way to activate these with Use Magic Device? Also, I noticed a few items that are activated by using activations of Bardic Music or other effects. I know that you can emulate HAVING a class feature with a DC (20+Level the class gets that feature), so you can trigger items that say "If you HAVE Bardic Music" but is there any way to UMD the items that require using one of your daily bardic music effects?
jaelis 04-10-07, 11:05 AM	It's a subject of some debate, but IMHO, the answer is no, UMD doesn't work, for the reason you described. (You don't actually have any slots or uses of bardic music to sacrifice.) But it is true that the skill description in the PHB talks about using turning attemps to activate a chalice via UMD. This example is inconsistent with the rules that are stated in the same place. I'm inclined to say the example is wrong, but you could reasonably feel instead that the rule is worded poorly and the example is supposed to illustrate how it really works. In that case, you would presumably say yes to spell slots and bardic music as well.
SpoonyBard 04-10-07, 11:10 AM	So, ruling that, for Bardic Music... You'd make the UMD check the first time you picked it up each day, and then you'd be able to use it (check-20) times per day? I can't imagine allowing someone with UMD to be able to use an item MORE times per day than the emulated Bard.
tarkin 04-10-07, 11:27 AM	There is no way to activate this using UMD. I will quote the actual words you used: "allow you to use a spell slot you have to cast the spells in the item. " UMD has nothing to do with casting spells. Therefore it does not work.
SpoonyBard 04-10-07, 11:30 AM	Okay, so Runestaff might be out, but what about the Bardic Music stuff? I'm looking for stuff for a huge CHA character to do with UMD, and all I've really got so far is "Whirling blade" plus a few standard things (Enlarge, Lesser Vigor, etc)
Zaistars69 04-10-07, 11:51 AM	It looks like the bardic music thing works fine. As long as you are able to emulate a bard of the appropriate level. so to activate a magic item that requires one use of bardic music you have to emulate a bard of first level. This number of uses still has a daily limit so to activate that item again you would have to emulate a 2nd level bard, and up and up and up until you no longer can emulate that character. this is also why you can emulate having turn undead for the chalace. Again it is still limited by a number of uses per day.