Use of certain skills and feats while mounted [Archive] - Wizards Community

Use of certain skills and feats while mounted [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pennarin
03-30-07, 01:02 AM How about Move Silently, Hide, Track, and zillion others skills and feats...can you use them while mounted?

...or is it your mount who must use it (for example, Move Silently) or even both of ya?

Can you use feats and class abilities that allow you to do more while charging...while your mount is the one that's doing the charging?
Slimgauge
03-30-07, 02:03 AM Well, the Rules of the Game article All About Mounts part four, found here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050215a says

Use a Skill That Takes 1 Round: Using a skill that requires you to touch or handle something while mounted (such as Disable Device or Open Lock) is subject to the same limitations that apply to mounted melee attacks. Whatever you touch or handle must be within reach when you use the skill. If you can carry whatever you're touching or handling as part of your skill along with you as your mount moves, your mount's movement doesn't affect the skill use (though the DM might chose to impose a check penalty or DC increase).

A skill that works at a distance (such as Search or Survival) usually isn't affected by your mount's movement (though the DM might choose to impose a check penalty or DC increase. If your mount makes a single move, you can make your skill check before or after the mount moves). If your mount runs or makes a double move, you use your skill check when your mount has completed half its movement for the turn.

So it depends on the skill.
Most social skills like Diplomacy would work at a distance and would work fine from horseback. Intimidate might even get a plus (call it a circumstance bonus) if you're on a particularly intimidating mount.

Things like survival and track would likely require you to dismount at intervals to examine tracks closely or to pick up that edible root that you spotted.

Move silently would not, because while you have to spend a move action, the horse is the one doing the moving. Ditto Jump (although your ride skill will be used too if you try to have your mount jump something).

Hide is also interesting. Can you use hide to hide your mount as if it was an object ? Or better, find a way to get your mount one rank in Hide and the TEAMWORK trick from PH2 pg 158. This lets your mount participate in the "Cunning Ambush" teamwork benefit.

Feats are a different matter.

Some feats ONLY work while mounted (Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, Cavalry Charger, Mounted Mobility).

Some feats might be able to be used while you're mounted, but might not affect the mount. If you use mobility while mounted (assuming that's possible), it would affect only AoOs against YOU not against the mount (that's what Mounted Mobility is for) unless the mount ALSO had the mobility feat (yes, mounts can have feats).

Some feats specifically say they don't work while mounted. An example would be the Powerful Charge feat from the Miniatures Handbook. Now, your MOUNT could have the Powerful Charge feat, but then the increased damage would be to the mount's charge attack, not yours. If both you and your mount had the feat, perhaps a friendly DM might rule that you'd both get the benefit.

Mounted Trample/Improved Overrun is an interesting case. Your having Mounted Trample is NOT QUITE the same as your mount having the Improved Overrun feat

Mounted Trample: When you (the rider) attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets.

Improved Overrun: When you (the mount) attempt to overrun an opponent, the target may not choose to avoid you. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to knock down your opponent.

For something like Leap Attack to work while mounted, the MOUNT would have to have the prerequisite levels in jump rather than the rider. In fact, here's a variant Mounted Leap Attack feat that I'd already written up. NOTE THAT THIS IS MY HOUSE RULE FEAT and in no way official. I changed the Jump requirement to a Ride requirement.

Mounted Leap Attack [General] (Custom)

You have trained your mount to leap during your charge.

Prerequisites: Ride 8 ranks, Power Attack, Mounted Combat

Benefit: You can combine a jump by your mount with a mounted charge against an opponent. If your mount covers at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with its jump, and you end the jump in a square from which you and/or your mount threaten your target, you can double the extra damage dealt by your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a lance, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack. This feat will stack with another feat or class ability (such as Spirited Charge or Deadly Charge) that increases or multiplies the base charge damage, but not with the Leaping Charge ability from the Cavalry Charger feat that also grants extra damage. If your mount has the power attack feat and can also attack as part of your charge, it may deal extra damage from its own use of power attack.

This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the ride skill to urge your mount to jump and for making a charge, except that you ignore rough terrain in any squares your mount jumps over.
Pennarin
03-30-07, 01:04 PM So most combat-centered skill and feat-uses must be done by the mount, unless they are part of the feat-tree starting with Mounted Combat.

It's what I thought. Thanks mate!
Slimgauge
03-30-07, 01:41 PM It really has to be decided by your DM on a case-by-case basis.

For example, the Deflect Arrow feat that lets you knock an arrow out of the air if you've got a free hand to do it with would probably still work fine while you were mounted, but would probably NOT let you deflect arrows aimed at your mount (since you can't reach all parts of your mount from the saddle).

The feat that lets you make more than one attack of opportunity (Combat Reflexes) would still work while you were mounted, but would not grant your mount extra AoOs. And conversely, if your mount had Combat Reflexes, it could make extra AoOs, but that would not extend to the rider.

Does the Dodge feat work while mounted, and if so, does it affect attacks on your mount ? That'd be a DM call. You do have some ability to duck in the saddle, since you retain your dex mod to AC. If your mount has dodge, does it affect attacks on the rider ? Again, DM call.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pennarin 03-30-07, 01:02 AM	How about Move Silently, Hide, Track, and zillion others skills and feats...can you use them while mounted? ...or is it your mount who must use it (for example, Move Silently) or even both of ya? Can you use feats and class abilities that allow you to do more while charging...while your mount is the one that's doing the charging?
Slimgauge 03-30-07, 02:03 AM	Well, the Rules of the Game article All About Mounts part four, found here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050215a says Use a Skill That Takes 1 Round: Using a skill that requires you to touch or handle something while mounted (such as Disable Device or Open Lock) is subject to the same limitations that apply to mounted melee attacks. Whatever you touch or handle must be within reach when you use the skill. If you can carry whatever you're touching or handling as part of your skill along with you as your mount moves, your mount's movement doesn't affect the skill use (though the DM might chose to impose a check penalty or DC increase). A skill that works at a distance (such as Search or Survival) usually isn't affected by your mount's movement (though the DM might choose to impose a check penalty or DC increase. If your mount makes a single move, you can make your skill check before or after the mount moves). If your mount runs or makes a double move, you use your skill check when your mount has completed half its movement for the turn. So it depends on the skill. Most social skills like Diplomacy would work at a distance and would work fine from horseback. Intimidate might even get a plus (call it a circumstance bonus) if you're on a particularly intimidating mount. Things like survival and track would likely require you to dismount at intervals to examine tracks closely or to pick up that edible root that you spotted. Move silently would not, because while you have to spend a move action, the horse is the one doing the moving. Ditto Jump (although your ride skill will be used too if you try to have your mount jump something). Hide is also interesting. Can you use hide to hide your mount as if it was an object ? Or better, find a way to get your mount one rank in Hide and the TEAMWORK trick from PH2 pg 158. This lets your mount participate in the "Cunning Ambush" teamwork benefit. Feats are a different matter. Some feats ONLY work while mounted (Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, Cavalry Charger, Mounted Mobility). Some feats might be able to be used while you're mounted, but might not affect the mount. If you use mobility while mounted (assuming that's possible), it would affect only AoOs against YOU not against the mount (that's what Mounted Mobility is for) unless the mount ALSO had the mobility feat (yes, mounts can have feats). Some feats specifically say they don't work while mounted. An example would be the Powerful Charge feat from the Miniatures Handbook. Now, your MOUNT could have the Powerful Charge feat, but then the increased damage would be to the mount's charge attack, not yours. If both you and your mount had the feat, perhaps a friendly DM might rule that you'd both get the benefit. Mounted Trample/Improved Overrun is an interesting case. Your having Mounted Trample is NOT QUITE the same as your mount having the Improved Overrun feat Mounted Trample: When you (the rider) attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted, your target may not choose to avoid you. Your mount may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down, gaining the standard +4 bonus on attack rolls against prone targets. Improved Overrun: When you (the mount) attempt to overrun an opponent, the target may not choose to avoid you. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to knock down your opponent. For something like Leap Attack to work while mounted, the MOUNT would have to have the prerequisite levels in jump rather than the rider. In fact, here's a variant Mounted Leap Attack feat that I'd already written up. NOTE THAT THIS IS MY HOUSE RULE FEAT and in no way official. I changed the Jump requirement to a Ride requirement. Mounted Leap Attack [General] (Custom) You have trained your mount to leap during your charge. Prerequisites: Ride 8 ranks, Power Attack, Mounted Combat Benefit: You can combine a jump by your mount with a mounted charge against an opponent. If your mount covers at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with its jump, and you end the jump in a square from which you and/or your mount threaten your target, you can double the extra damage dealt by your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a lance, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack. This feat will stack with another feat or class ability (such as Spirited Charge or Deadly Charge) that increases or multiplies the base charge damage, but not with the Leaping Charge ability from the Cavalry Charger feat that also grants extra damage. If your mount has the power attack feat and can also attack as part of your charge, it may deal extra damage from its own use of power attack. This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the ride skill to urge your mount to jump and for making a charge, except that you ignore rough terrain in any squares your mount jumps over.
Pennarin 03-30-07, 01:04 PM	So most combat-centered skill and feat-uses must be done by the mount, unless they are part of the feat-tree starting with Mounted Combat. It's what I thought. Thanks mate!
Slimgauge 03-30-07, 01:41 PM	It really has to be decided by your DM on a case-by-case basis. For example, the Deflect Arrow feat that lets you knock an arrow out of the air if you've got a free hand to do it with would probably still work fine while you were mounted, but would probably NOT let you deflect arrows aimed at your mount (since you can't reach all parts of your mount from the saddle). The feat that lets you make more than one attack of opportunity (Combat Reflexes) would still work while you were mounted, but would not grant your mount extra AoOs. And conversely, if your mount had Combat Reflexes, it could make extra AoOs, but that would not extend to the rider. Does the Dodge feat work while mounted, and if so, does it affect attacks on your mount ? That'd be a DM call. You do have some ability to duck in the saddle, since you retain your dex mod to AC. If your mount has dodge, does it affect attacks on the rider ? Again, DM call.