Using a Shield as a Primary Weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Using a Shield as a Primary Weapon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zombiehobo
03-13-07, 06:19 PM I'm sure this idea has been put up and I'm sure there has been a post about it I just couldn't find it. I wanted to look at the idea of using a shield as your main weapon instead of as a off-hand shield bash. I didn't find any feats that fit the bill and was hoping someone could lend their knowledge to me.
Nat_20
03-13-07, 06:42 PM You can use a shield as a primary weapon, and if you have improved shield bash, you may attack with it and still have the ac bonus from it, and if you give it spikes, you increase the damage. a small spiked shield does 1D4 and a large 1D6 of piercing damage. Or go two weapon fighting, use say, a long sword and a large spiked shield, you get 1D8 slashing, and 1D6 piercing and the bonus to ac, not bad at all.
Zombiehobo
03-13-07, 06:48 PM Awesome, thanks for that info. My warrior just using a shield Captain America style is on his way.
Garonak
03-13-07, 07:03 PM Make a Half-Ogre Barbarian/Fighter/Monk/Kensai... we had one on the party... he was ehm... dangerous
Zombiehobo
03-13-07, 07:06 PM I was going to try to do some sort of Fighter/Monk as I need some fighter to get the actual shield proficiences at each level. Is there some reason he went with Barbarian? I'm sure there is a really good one I'm just not seeing it right away.
Willie the Duck
03-13-07, 08:50 PM I'm sure this idea has been put up and I'm sure there has been a post about it I just couldn't find it. I wanted to look at the idea of using a shield as your main weapon instead of as a off-hand shield bash. I didn't find any feats that fit the bill and was hoping someone could lend their knowledge to me.

The FAQ clarifies that the ""off-hand only" assumption in the combat section is based on an assumption that you would use a shield bash as an off hand attack, and was not meant to imply that you could not use it as a primary attack. Since rules clarifications are the purview of the FAQ (and not the erratta), this is apparantly official.
Zombiehobo
03-13-07, 08:52 PM So keeping with the idea of the board, are there feats other then Improved Shield Bash that would aid my character in using a Spiked Shield as his primary weapon?
morbid_freak
03-13-07, 09:00 PM The PHBII has a very nice selection of shield feats. I also read a feat somewhere that lets you throw your shield as a weapon. So you can just slap a returning enchantment on your shield and play the Captain America role.

Well, until you get shot by a sniper anyway...
Zombiehobo
03-13-07, 09:04 PM The PHBII has a very nice selection of shield feats. I also read a feat somewhere that lets you throw your shield as a weapon. So you can just slap a returning enchantment on your shield and play the Captain America role.

Well, until you get shot by a sniper anyway...

I'll look into those feats, thanks. Isn't there one that allows you blow arrows with your shield? I'll find that to stop snipers, but normally bows don't have laser sights, I guess.
jacobi289
03-13-07, 09:07 PM PHB2 is great. Shield Spec. and Shield Ward are great, as are shield slam and the others.

I had a character that used a heavy adamantine spiked shield as primary weapon, who specialized in bull rushing and knocking things around in general. My character was known as the "Human Bulldozer" for obvious reasons. The funny part was, she was a blue-eyed, blonde-haired 12 year old girl. Cute as a button, with a +31 to Intimidate.
Zombiehobo
03-13-07, 10:07 PM PHB2 is great. Shield Spec. and Shield Ward are great, as are shield slam and the others.

I had a character that used a heavy adamantine spiked shield as primary weapon, who specialized in bull rushing and knocking things around in general. My character was known as the "Human Bulldozer" for obvious reasons. The funny part was, she was a blue-eyed, blonde-haired 12 year old girl. Cute as a button, with a +31 to Intimidate.

+31 to Intimidate! Crazy. I've gotta hear exactly how that one was done. my rip-off Captain America will be the most feared warrior in the land with his mighty shield.
Poison_Dusk
03-13-07, 11:15 PM All your shield throwing awesomeness in one easy link. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10825643#post10825643)
Zombiehobo
03-13-07, 11:47 PM All your shield throwing awesomeness in one easy link. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10825643#post10825643)

Thanks for the link. In the game I am going to use the character for the DM has limited stuff to the PHB but I think I can get some PHBII feats in, Crusader would probably be a hard sale but I hope I can make it work with a fighter. Anyhow, thanks again for the link.
Demon_Paladin
03-14-07, 12:05 AM The PHBII has a very nice selection of shield feats. I also read a feat somewhere that lets you throw your shield as a weapon. So you can just slap a returning enchantment on your shield and play the Captain America role.

Well, until you get shot by a sniper anyway...

Cap failed his reflex save.The Avengers were the coolest adventurers ever.
HomebrewedMonster
03-14-07, 12:55 AM SHIELD SLING!!!

I grew up watching this movie. Cap movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq2_YKQGE_U)

Captain America throws his mighty shield
All those who chose oppose his shield must yield.
If he's lead to a fight and a duel is due,
Then the red and white and the blue'll come through.
When Captain America throws his mighty shield.

GO CAP!
Poison_Dusk
03-14-07, 01:36 AM Thanks for the link. In the game I am going to use the character for the DM has limited stuff to the PHB but I think I can get some PHBII feats in, Crusader would probably be a hard sale but I hope I can make it work with a fighter. Anyhow, thanks again for the link.
You're welcome. I really want to use this build myself.
UnrelentingHoror
03-14-07, 04:42 AM Even though it may not be available and I'm fuzzy as to whether or not it stacks with shield spikes I figure I'll bring it up anyways. Theres a +1 shield enchantment called (I think) impact or some such that makes your shield hit like one two size categories larger, so a heavy shield would be hitting for
1d8 I think.
So if your in a campaign where you can pay for enchantments and you have the money you might consider it.
epifreak
03-14-07, 04:58 AM As for arrows, you could grab improved unarmed strike (which would be a logical feat for this character to have flavorwise anyway) and deflect arrows. All you have to do is flavortext the arrow deflection as a shield deflection.
TheMagister
03-14-07, 07:43 AM Depending on your money situation:

+1 (silver or cold iron) Spiked +1 Bashing Heavy Adamantine Shield of Arrow Deflection

Damage: 1d4 => 1d6 (spiked), 1d6 => 2d6 (bashing [up by 2 size cat])+1 (enhancement)

And remember that the shield spike must be enchanted seperately from the shield! This is both boon and curse: boon: you can stack an awful lot of damage onto a weapon that's essentially two-in-one, and curse: it gets darned expensive darned quick.

I don't have a particular favorite, but:

+1 holy vicious ghost touch spiked +1 Bashing Heavy Adamantine Shield of Arrow Deflection sounds good in theory.

Add Shield Ward (PHBII feat) and some Ghost Touch armor (+3 enchantment) and you're ready to rock and roll.

Build: focus on two-handed power attacks (and the PA chain of feats) and good defense. Find a friendly wizard or some potions of Enlarge Person, both for the +2 to Str and the additional size increase (since the shield doesn't actually get bigger with the application of the Bashing enchantment, it does benefit from Enlarge Person).

If the Expanded Psionic Handbook is allowed (it's on the SRD): be a half-giant psiwar/fighter. Get your hands on some powerstones of expansion [ml3] and know the power yourself. Wield a large sized shield to boost the shield damage up by another +1d6 (you'll have to always wield the shield in two hands, though). Still focus on power attack, but add in the Reckless Offense feat for an extra +2 to hit. Still, a 4d6+(1.5*Str)+(power attack*2) shield bash by 3rd level is something to be proud of.

Good Ideas that I found worked well: EWP: Bolas in conjunction with Improved Trip -and- the Knockdown feat (in the SRD somewhere). So if they're faster than you, the trip 'em (and do damage: Bolas deal 1d4+str subdual!) and catch up. If you catch 'em, you keep 'em.

Good luck with it!

TM
Garonak
03-14-07, 04:19 PM I was going to try to do some sort of Fighter/Monk as I need some fighter to get the actual shield proficiences at each level. Is there some reason he went with Barbarian? I'm sure there is a really good one I'm just not seeing it right away.

As I've never gotten a good look at that character I can't be sure, but I guess it was for the extra 10ft of speed.
TheMagister
03-14-07, 05:43 PM He'd be better off with barbarian. A monk in armor isn't a fast monk.
Zombiehobo
03-15-07, 03:29 AM And remember that the shield spike must be enchanted seperately from the shield!
TM

Thanks for all your other information. I was hoping you oculd tell me where it says the spike must be enchanted seperately from the shield. I only ask because I know when I do it there will be a rules arguement over it.
DMaple
03-15-07, 10:23 AM Depending on your money situation:

+1 (silver or cold iron) Spiked +1 Bashing Heavy Adamantine Shield of Arrow Deflection

Damage: 1d4 => 1d6 (spiked), 1d6 => 2d6 (bashing [up by 2 size cat])+1 (enhancement)

And remember that the shield spike must be enchanted seperately from the shield!

How do you cost that?

Note: Bashing means the shield acts as a +1 weapon when bashing so there is no need to enchant the spikes at all (unless you want to put Flame, Holy, etc. on it. And when you do the first +1 will be a waste of money because it won't stack with the bonus from Bashing.

A +1 Heavy Spiked Steel Shield of Bashing would cost 4180gp and do 2d6+1 damage and be +1 to hit with no need to enhance the spikes.

Another question do the damage increases of Bashing and Spikes even stack?

Do you not end up with a shield/weapon that can do either 1d6 piercing or 1d8+1 Bludgeoning instead?

The idea of a one handed weapon that does 2d6 damage and gives a AC bonus seems a little odd to me.
drunkendrake
03-15-07, 10:37 AM How do you manage to put (silver or cold iron) and Adamantine on the same shield? or do you mean adamantine shield with Cold Iron Spikes? is that even possible?
Garonak
03-15-07, 10:56 AM He'd be better off with barbarian. A monk in armor isn't a fast monk.

As he only lost the AC bonus and nothing else (says nothing about a shield anywhere else) it didn't matter much since he only dipped into that class for concentration and diplomacy (I think, as mentioned I never saw the character sheet and it was quite some time ago).
TheMagister
03-15-07, 12:03 PM How do you cost that?

Note: Bashing means the shield acts as a +1 weapon when bashing so there is no need to enchant the spikes at all (unless you want to put Flame, Holy, etc. on it. And when you do the first +1 will be a waste of money because it won't stack with the bonus from Bashing.

A +1 Heavy Spiked Steel Shield of Bashing would cost 4180gp and do 2d6+1 damage and be +1 to hit with no need to enhance the spikes.

Another question do the damage increases of Bashing and Spikes even stack?

Do you not end up with a shield/weapon that can do either 1d6 piercing or 1d8+1 Bludgeoning instead?

The idea of a one handed weapon that does 2d6 damage and gives a AC bonus seems a little odd to me.

The last time I looked at an FAQ (admittedly, a few months ago), the "treat as if 'x' size category larger" increases stack.

If that's changed, then the idea's debunked. But I haven't heard that it has changed.

As for the shield/weapon doing either piercing or bludgeoning damage: It's not a double weapon with two seperate damage values. The addition of spikes adds the piercing damage type, and the addition of bludgeoning enhances the existing bludgeoning damage type. It's essentially a big morningstar.

And it's not a one-handed weapon that deals 2d6 damage. It's a one-handed weapon that deals 1d6 damage and that's treated as a weapon that's two-size categories larger via enchantment.

Shillelagh does almost exactly the same thing for less money.
TheMagister
03-15-07, 12:04 PM How do you manage to put (silver or cold iron) and Adamantine on the same shield? or do you mean adamantine shield with Cold Iron Spikes? is that even possible?

You can make a heavy metal shield out of adamantine, right?

You can make shield/armor spikes out of cold iron, right?

You can put spikes on any shield you want, right?

I don't see why it's not possible...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zombiehobo 03-13-07, 06:19 PM	I'm sure this idea has been put up and I'm sure there has been a post about it I just couldn't find it. I wanted to look at the idea of using a shield as your main weapon instead of as a off-hand shield bash. I didn't find any feats that fit the bill and was hoping someone could lend their knowledge to me.
Nat_20 03-13-07, 06:42 PM	You can use a shield as a primary weapon, and if you have improved shield bash, you may attack with it and still have the ac bonus from it, and if you give it spikes, you increase the damage. a small spiked shield does 1D4 and a large 1D6 of piercing damage. Or go two weapon fighting, use say, a long sword and a large spiked shield, you get 1D8 slashing, and 1D6 piercing and the bonus to ac, not bad at all.
Zombiehobo 03-13-07, 06:48 PM	Awesome, thanks for that info. My warrior just using a shield Captain America style is on his way.
Garonak 03-13-07, 07:03 PM	Make a Half-Ogre Barbarian/Fighter/Monk/Kensai... we had one on the party... he was ehm... dangerous
Zombiehobo 03-13-07, 07:06 PM	I was going to try to do some sort of Fighter/Monk as I need some fighter to get the actual shield proficiences at each level. Is there some reason he went with Barbarian? I'm sure there is a really good one I'm just not seeing it right away.
Willie the Duck 03-13-07, 08:50 PM	I'm sure this idea has been put up and I'm sure there has been a post about it I just couldn't find it. I wanted to look at the idea of using a shield as your main weapon instead of as a off-hand shield bash. I didn't find any feats that fit the bill and was hoping someone could lend their knowledge to me. The FAQ clarifies that the ""off-hand only" assumption in the combat section is based on an assumption that you would use a shield bash as an off hand attack, and was not meant to imply that you could not use it as a primary attack. Since rules clarifications are the purview of the FAQ (and not the erratta), this is apparantly official.
Zombiehobo 03-13-07, 08:52 PM	So keeping with the idea of the board, are there feats other then Improved Shield Bash that would aid my character in using a Spiked Shield as his primary weapon?
morbid_freak 03-13-07, 09:00 PM	The PHBII has a very nice selection of shield feats. I also read a feat somewhere that lets you throw your shield as a weapon. So you can just slap a returning enchantment on your shield and play the Captain America role. Well, until you get shot by a sniper anyway...
Zombiehobo 03-13-07, 09:04 PM	The PHBII has a very nice selection of shield feats. I also read a feat somewhere that lets you throw your shield as a weapon. So you can just slap a returning enchantment on your shield and play the Captain America role. Well, until you get shot by a sniper anyway... I'll look into those feats, thanks. Isn't there one that allows you blow arrows with your shield? I'll find that to stop snipers, but normally bows don't have laser sights, I guess.
jacobi289 03-13-07, 09:07 PM	PHB2 is great. Shield Spec. and Shield Ward are great, as are shield slam and the others. I had a character that used a heavy adamantine spiked shield as primary weapon, who specialized in bull rushing and knocking things around in general. My character was known as the "Human Bulldozer" for obvious reasons. The funny part was, she was a blue-eyed, blonde-haired 12 year old girl. Cute as a button, with a +31 to Intimidate.
Zombiehobo 03-13-07, 10:07 PM	PHB2 is great. Shield Spec. and Shield Ward are great, as are shield slam and the others. I had a character that used a heavy adamantine spiked shield as primary weapon, who specialized in bull rushing and knocking things around in general. My character was known as the "Human Bulldozer" for obvious reasons. The funny part was, she was a blue-eyed, blonde-haired 12 year old girl. Cute as a button, with a +31 to Intimidate. +31 to Intimidate! Crazy. I've gotta hear exactly how that one was done. my rip-off Captain America will be the most feared warrior in the land with his mighty shield.
Poison_Dusk 03-13-07, 11:15 PM	All your shield throwing awesomeness in one easy link. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10825643#post10825643)
Zombiehobo 03-13-07, 11:47 PM	All your shield throwing awesomeness in one easy link. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=10825643#post10825643) Thanks for the link. In the game I am going to use the character for the DM has limited stuff to the PHB but I think I can get some PHBII feats in, Crusader would probably be a hard sale but I hope I can make it work with a fighter. Anyhow, thanks again for the link.
Demon_Paladin 03-14-07, 12:05 AM	The PHBII has a very nice selection of shield feats. I also read a feat somewhere that lets you throw your shield as a weapon. So you can just slap a returning enchantment on your shield and play the Captain America role. Well, until you get shot by a sniper anyway... Cap failed his reflex save.The Avengers were the coolest adventurers ever.
HomebrewedMonster 03-14-07, 12:55 AM	SHIELD SLING!!! I grew up watching this movie. Cap movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq2_YKQGE_U) Captain America throws his mighty shield All those who chose oppose his shield must yield. If he's lead to a fight and a duel is due, Then the red and white and the blue'll come through. When Captain America throws his mighty shield. GO CAP!
Poison_Dusk 03-14-07, 01:36 AM	Thanks for the link. In the game I am going to use the character for the DM has limited stuff to the PHB but I think I can get some PHBII feats in, Crusader would probably be a hard sale but I hope I can make it work with a fighter. Anyhow, thanks again for the link. You're welcome. I really want to use this build myself.
UnrelentingHoror 03-14-07, 04:42 AM	Even though it may not be available and I'm fuzzy as to whether or not it stacks with shield spikes I figure I'll bring it up anyways. Theres a +1 shield enchantment called (I think) impact or some such that makes your shield hit like one two size categories larger, so a heavy shield would be hitting for 1d8 I think. So if your in a campaign where you can pay for enchantments and you have the money you might consider it.
epifreak 03-14-07, 04:58 AM	As for arrows, you could grab improved unarmed strike (which would be a logical feat for this character to have flavorwise anyway) and deflect arrows. All you have to do is flavortext the arrow deflection as a shield deflection.
TheMagister 03-14-07, 07:43 AM	Depending on your money situation: +1 (silver or cold iron) Spiked +1 Bashing Heavy Adamantine Shield of Arrow Deflection Damage: 1d4 => 1d6 (spiked), 1d6 => 2d6 (bashing [up by 2 size cat])+1 (enhancement) And remember that the shield spike must be enchanted seperately from the shield! This is both boon and curse: boon: you can stack an awful lot of damage onto a weapon that's essentially two-in-one, and curse: it gets darned expensive darned quick. I don't have a particular favorite, but: +1 holy vicious ghost touch spiked +1 Bashing Heavy Adamantine Shield of Arrow Deflection sounds good in theory. Add Shield Ward (PHBII feat) and some Ghost Touch armor (+3 enchantment) and you're ready to rock and roll. Build: focus on two-handed power attacks (and the PA chain of feats) and good defense. Find a friendly wizard or some potions of Enlarge Person, both for the +2 to Str and the additional size increase (since the shield doesn't actually get bigger with the application of the Bashing enchantment, it does benefit from Enlarge Person). If the Expanded Psionic Handbook is allowed (it's on the SRD): be a half-giant psiwar/fighter. Get your hands on some powerstones of expansion [ml3] and know the power yourself. Wield a large sized shield to boost the shield damage up by another +1d6 (you'll have to always wield the shield in two hands, though). Still focus on power attack, but add in the Reckless Offense feat for an extra +2 to hit. Still, a 4d6+(1.5Str)+(power attack2) shield bash by 3rd level is something to be proud of. Good Ideas that I found worked well: EWP: Bolas in conjunction with Improved Trip -and- the Knockdown feat (in the SRD somewhere). So if they're faster than you, the trip 'em (and do damage: Bolas deal 1d4+str subdual!) and catch up. If you catch 'em, you keep 'em. Good luck with it! TM
Garonak 03-14-07, 04:19 PM	I was going to try to do some sort of Fighter/Monk as I need some fighter to get the actual shield proficiences at each level. Is there some reason he went with Barbarian? I'm sure there is a really good one I'm just not seeing it right away. As I've never gotten a good look at that character I can't be sure, but I guess it was for the extra 10ft of speed.
TheMagister 03-14-07, 05:43 PM	He'd be better off with barbarian. A monk in armor isn't a fast monk.
Zombiehobo 03-15-07, 03:29 AM	And remember that the shield spike must be enchanted seperately from the shield! TM Thanks for all your other information. I was hoping you oculd tell me where it says the spike must be enchanted seperately from the shield. I only ask because I know when I do it there will be a rules arguement over it.
DMaple 03-15-07, 10:23 AM	Depending on your money situation: +1 (silver or cold iron) Spiked +1 Bashing Heavy Adamantine Shield of Arrow Deflection Damage: 1d4 => 1d6 (spiked), 1d6 => 2d6 (bashing [up by 2 size cat])+1 (enhancement) And remember that the shield spike must be enchanted seperately from the shield! How do you cost that? Note: Bashing means the shield acts as a +1 weapon when bashing so there is no need to enchant the spikes at all (unless you want to put Flame, Holy, etc. on it. And when you do the first +1 will be a waste of money because it won't stack with the bonus from Bashing. A +1 Heavy Spiked Steel Shield of Bashing would cost 4180gp and do 2d6+1 damage and be +1 to hit with no need to enhance the spikes. Another question do the damage increases of Bashing and Spikes even stack? Do you not end up with a shield/weapon that can do either 1d6 piercing or 1d8+1 Bludgeoning instead? The idea of a one handed weapon that does 2d6 damage and gives a AC bonus seems a little odd to me.
drunkendrake 03-15-07, 10:37 AM	How do you manage to put (silver or cold iron) and Adamantine on the same shield? or do you mean adamantine shield with Cold Iron Spikes? is that even possible?
Garonak 03-15-07, 10:56 AM	He'd be better off with barbarian. A monk in armor isn't a fast monk. As he only lost the AC bonus and nothing else (says nothing about a shield anywhere else) it didn't matter much since he only dipped into that class for concentration and diplomacy (I think, as mentioned I never saw the character sheet and it was quite some time ago).
TheMagister 03-15-07, 12:03 PM	How do you cost that? Note: Bashing means the shield acts as a +1 weapon when bashing so there is no need to enchant the spikes at all (unless you want to put Flame, Holy, etc. on it. And when you do the first +1 will be a waste of money because it won't stack with the bonus from Bashing. A +1 Heavy Spiked Steel Shield of Bashing would cost 4180gp and do 2d6+1 damage and be +1 to hit with no need to enhance the spikes. Another question do the damage increases of Bashing and Spikes even stack? Do you not end up with a shield/weapon that can do either 1d6 piercing or 1d8+1 Bludgeoning instead? The idea of a one handed weapon that does 2d6 damage and gives a AC bonus seems a little odd to me. The last time I looked at an FAQ (admittedly, a few months ago), the "treat as if 'x' size category larger" increases stack. If that's changed, then the idea's debunked. But I haven't heard that it has changed. As for the shield/weapon doing either piercing or bludgeoning damage: It's not a double weapon with two seperate damage values. The addition of spikes adds the piercing damage type, and the addition of bludgeoning enhances the existing bludgeoning damage type. It's essentially a big morningstar. And it's not a one-handed weapon that deals 2d6 damage. It's a one-handed weapon that deals 1d6 damage and that's treated as a weapon that's two-size categories larger via enchantment. Shillelagh does almost exactly the same thing for less money.
TheMagister 03-15-07, 12:04 PM	How do you manage to put (silver or cold iron) and Adamantine on the same shield? or do you mean adamantine shield with Cold Iron Spikes? is that even possible? You can make a heavy metal shield out of adamantine, right? You can make shield/armor spikes out of cold iron, right? You can put spikes on any shield you want, right? I don't see why it's not possible...