Versatile Combatant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Versatile Combatant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ZiggZagg
01-31-08, 12:06 AM I was reading about this feat earlier today, and I am interested in using it. What is a good character build and equipment that could make use of this feat?
Krusk
01-31-08, 12:40 AM Where is it found, or what is a small description of what it does. Off the top of my head I can't think of where/what it is.

Do you have any general ideas as to anything you want to do or do you simply want to use it?
ZiggZagg
01-31-08, 01:12 AM It is in Drow of the Underdark. It allows you to use a rapier and hand crossbow like you had TWF, allows you to fire without Attack of Opportunity...and a few other bonuses that I can't think of right now, and I don't have the book availible to check. It just seems like an interesting feat for a rogue or a scout or both, maybe with a level of or two of Swordsage for some swift actions moves like Sudden Leap
ZiggZagg
02-01-08, 02:28 PM Bump.

Anybody have any ideas at all?
ZiggZagg
02-02-08, 02:42 PM Still no comments or ideas about this feat?
Essex
02-02-08, 03:21 PM Take the feats Weapon Focus (hand crossbow) and Crossbow Sniper (Players Handbook II) while advancing as a Rogue or Scout. If you go with Rogue, then Vexing Flanker and Adaptable Flanker (also from the PHBII) will improve your sneak attacks (both will require you to first take the Combat Reflexes feat).

Rapid Reload (hand crossbow) may be useful, but you may have some trouble reloading if both of your hands are already full (I prefer the +1 Quick Loading weapon property. A hundred bolts in storage that can be retrieved in an instant is very useful). The Xaniquos School style feat from Drow of the Underdark is also likely to be useful, especially if you're a Scout.

If you become a Scout, put most of your feats into improving your ranged combat and skirmish abilities. Speed boosting feats and abilities are also useful. Psionic Characters can use the Speed of Thought feat to increase their speed. The Quick trait from Unearthed Arcana boosts your speed at the cost of hp. The Improved Skirmish feat from Complete Scoundrel is a must if you're looking for a fast Scout.
ZiggZagg
02-02-08, 03:38 PM Ok, a lot of that sounds viable. Would you suggest using the feat from Complete Scoundrel that stacks levels in Scout and Rogue?
Essex
02-02-08, 04:09 PM Ok, a lot of that sounds viable. Would you suggest using the feat from Complete Scoundrel that stacks levels in Scout and Rogue?

If you want to take levels in both classes, then I'd suggest taking 1 or 2 levels of Rogue (for the proficiency with Rapier and hand crossbow) before switching to Scout for 4 levels (taking that feat as your bonus 4th level Scout feat), and then continuing on with Rogue for the remainder of your adventuring career. Don't bother with any additional levels of Scout after that point.

Your feats should look like this, unless you're a Human, in which case you can either push some things up or add some other feats. If you're going for a high Dexterity character, then I suggest taking the Weapon Finesse feat at some point.

1). Versatile Combatant
3). Weapon Focus (hand crossbow)
B). Swift Ambusher
6). Crossbow Sniper
ZiggZagg
02-02-08, 04:28 PM Thank you for the info. What sort of equipment would you suggest? I know quick loading is an obvious choice. What else would work well?
Essex
02-02-08, 04:47 PM Thank you for the info. What sort of equipment would you suggest? I know quick loading is an obvious choice. What else would work well?

After Quick Loading, I feel that the +2 Force property is ideal. Converting your crossbow bolts into pure force means that you don't have to worry about damage reduction (x/magic, silver, cold iron, adamantine, slashing, piercing, bludgeoning, etc.) or incorporeal miss chance. When combined with Quick Loading, you can make up to 100 attacks (using full attack actions because of the Quick Loading property) before running out of your super ammo.

Skirmisher Boots are also a good deal. For 3,200 gp, a bonus to damage and extra attacks in a round when you meet the criteria is quite useful.

A 15,000 gp Shirt of the Fey will grant some minor DR which can only be overcome by rarely carried cold iron weapons.
ZiggZagg
02-02-08, 04:57 PM Not bad. So Rogue/Scout with Quick Loading Force Hand Crossbow. Anything I should be looking at for the Rapier side? Telling blow is looking mighty nice combined with either keen or improved critical
Essex
02-02-08, 05:15 PM Not bad. So Rogue/Scout with Quick Loading Force Hand Crossbow. Anything I should be looking at for the Rapier side? Telling blow is looking mighty nice combined with either keen or improved critical

Telling Blow would be useful for both weapons. My advice is to pick one area of combat and to funnel your feats and items into supporting that area. Since a lot of my advice focuses on the hand crossbow, I'd make that the primary weapon (even if it will be considered the off-hand weapon for the purpose of your first feat). I'd leave the rapier at a +1 weapon and only upgrade it if there is nothing else to spend the money on. Don't bother with a rapier feat unless it helps the hand crossbow as well (thus, most skirmish boosting feats are good).

As an interesting thought, I don't think that you have to actually declare one hand to be your primary hand; you only have to declare which weapon is primary. If you're running around shooting then you can state that the hand with the crossbow is primary. If you are forced to stop and make a full round attack, then you can make it secondary and use your first feat.
ZiggZagg
02-02-08, 06:11 PM I am trying to figure out where to focus myself. Probably mostly on ranged combat with the ability to hold my own in melee. Maybe somehow get some diamond mind maneuvers or something
Sinfire Titan
02-02-08, 07:25 PM Ok, a lot of that sounds viable. Would you suggest using the feat from Complete Scoundrel that stacks levels in Scout and Rogue?

If you go that road, then use Travel Devotion to get your full attack with a Skirmish. Hurts like hell!
ZiggZagg
02-02-08, 07:27 PM What's Travel Devotion?
Sinfire Titan
02-02-08, 07:59 PM What's Travel Devotion?

A feat from Complete Champion, considered to be the new Spring Attack for Swift Anythings. Because, you know, it is good.
ZiggZagg
02-02-08, 08:24 PM I do not have Complete Champion, yet, but I do intend on getting it. Is that a feat or a variant feature?
Sinfire Titan
02-02-08, 09:59 PM I do not have Complete Champion, yet, but I do intend on getting it. Is that a feat or a variant feature?

Repeat after me:

FeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeat FeatFeatFeatFeat.

That's why it is good!
ZiggZagg
02-02-08, 10:09 PM Interesting. So Travler's Devotion+Swift Ambusher+Telling Blow=Bringing the Pain! Sounds good. I am liking how this character concept is coming out
Sinfire Titan
02-03-08, 12:10 AM Interesting. So Travler's Devotion+Swift Ambusher+Telling Blow=Bringing the Pain! Sounds good. I am liking how this character concept is coming out

Some people swear by Spring Attack with Swift Hunter, I am a person who prefers to have the full attack with Skirmish, as you can't qualify for Rapid Blitz without dipping into Fighter, and even then you don't get the Full Attack. Many Shot or Improved Rapid Shot make Swift Hunter really strong, too.
ZiggZagg
02-03-08, 12:44 AM Well considering I will be using a Hand Crossbow, many shot and the like are out, but thank you for the help anyway. But with the fact that I am going be using a rapier, telling blow combined with the devoted traveler sounds like an interesting combo indeed

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZiggZagg 01-31-08, 12:06 AM	I was reading about this feat earlier today, and I am interested in using it. What is a good character build and equipment that could make use of this feat?
Krusk 01-31-08, 12:40 AM	Where is it found, or what is a small description of what it does. Off the top of my head I can't think of where/what it is. Do you have any general ideas as to anything you want to do or do you simply want to use it?
ZiggZagg 01-31-08, 01:12 AM	It is in Drow of the Underdark. It allows you to use a rapier and hand crossbow like you had TWF, allows you to fire without Attack of Opportunity...and a few other bonuses that I can't think of right now, and I don't have the book availible to check. It just seems like an interesting feat for a rogue or a scout or both, maybe with a level of or two of Swordsage for some swift actions moves like Sudden Leap
ZiggZagg 02-01-08, 02:28 PM	Bump. Anybody have any ideas at all?
ZiggZagg 02-02-08, 02:42 PM	Still no comments or ideas about this feat?
Essex 02-02-08, 03:21 PM	Take the feats Weapon Focus (hand crossbow) and Crossbow Sniper (Players Handbook II) while advancing as a Rogue or Scout. If you go with Rogue, then Vexing Flanker and Adaptable Flanker (also from the PHBII) will improve your sneak attacks (both will require you to first take the Combat Reflexes feat). Rapid Reload (hand crossbow) may be useful, but you may have some trouble reloading if both of your hands are already full (I prefer the +1 Quick Loading weapon property. A hundred bolts in storage that can be retrieved in an instant is very useful). The Xaniquos School style feat from Drow of the Underdark is also likely to be useful, especially if you're a Scout. If you become a Scout, put most of your feats into improving your ranged combat and skirmish abilities. Speed boosting feats and abilities are also useful. Psionic Characters can use the Speed of Thought feat to increase their speed. The Quick trait from Unearthed Arcana boosts your speed at the cost of hp. The Improved Skirmish feat from Complete Scoundrel is a must if you're looking for a fast Scout.
ZiggZagg 02-02-08, 03:38 PM	Ok, a lot of that sounds viable. Would you suggest using the feat from Complete Scoundrel that stacks levels in Scout and Rogue?
Essex 02-02-08, 04:09 PM	Ok, a lot of that sounds viable. Would you suggest using the feat from Complete Scoundrel that stacks levels in Scout and Rogue? If you want to take levels in both classes, then I'd suggest taking 1 or 2 levels of Rogue (for the proficiency with Rapier and hand crossbow) before switching to Scout for 4 levels (taking that feat as your bonus 4th level Scout feat), and then continuing on with Rogue for the remainder of your adventuring career. Don't bother with any additional levels of Scout after that point. Your feats should look like this, unless you're a Human, in which case you can either push some things up or add some other feats. If you're going for a high Dexterity character, then I suggest taking the Weapon Finesse feat at some point. 1). Versatile Combatant 3). Weapon Focus (hand crossbow) B). Swift Ambusher 6). Crossbow Sniper
ZiggZagg 02-02-08, 04:28 PM	Thank you for the info. What sort of equipment would you suggest? I know quick loading is an obvious choice. What else would work well?
Essex 02-02-08, 04:47 PM	Thank you for the info. What sort of equipment would you suggest? I know quick loading is an obvious choice. What else would work well? After Quick Loading, I feel that the +2 Force property is ideal. Converting your crossbow bolts into pure force means that you don't have to worry about damage reduction (x/magic, silver, cold iron, adamantine, slashing, piercing, bludgeoning, etc.) or incorporeal miss chance. When combined with Quick Loading, you can make up to 100 attacks (using full attack actions because of the Quick Loading property) before running out of your super ammo. Skirmisher Boots are also a good deal. For 3,200 gp, a bonus to damage and extra attacks in a round when you meet the criteria is quite useful. A 15,000 gp Shirt of the Fey will grant some minor DR which can only be overcome by rarely carried cold iron weapons.
ZiggZagg 02-02-08, 04:57 PM	Not bad. So Rogue/Scout with Quick Loading Force Hand Crossbow. Anything I should be looking at for the Rapier side? Telling blow is looking mighty nice combined with either keen or improved critical
Essex 02-02-08, 05:15 PM	Not bad. So Rogue/Scout with Quick Loading Force Hand Crossbow. Anything I should be looking at for the Rapier side? Telling blow is looking mighty nice combined with either keen or improved critical Telling Blow would be useful for both weapons. My advice is to pick one area of combat and to funnel your feats and items into supporting that area. Since a lot of my advice focuses on the hand crossbow, I'd make that the primary weapon (even if it will be considered the off-hand weapon for the purpose of your first feat). I'd leave the rapier at a +1 weapon and only upgrade it if there is nothing else to spend the money on. Don't bother with a rapier feat unless it helps the hand crossbow as well (thus, most skirmish boosting feats are good). As an interesting thought, I don't think that you have to actually declare one hand to be your primary hand; you only have to declare which weapon is primary. If you're running around shooting then you can state that the hand with the crossbow is primary. If you are forced to stop and make a full round attack, then you can make it secondary and use your first feat.
ZiggZagg 02-02-08, 06:11 PM	I am trying to figure out where to focus myself. Probably mostly on ranged combat with the ability to hold my own in melee. Maybe somehow get some diamond mind maneuvers or something
Sinfire Titan 02-02-08, 07:25 PM	Ok, a lot of that sounds viable. Would you suggest using the feat from Complete Scoundrel that stacks levels in Scout and Rogue? If you go that road, then use Travel Devotion to get your full attack with a Skirmish. Hurts like hell!
ZiggZagg 02-02-08, 07:27 PM	What's Travel Devotion?
Sinfire Titan 02-02-08, 07:59 PM	What's Travel Devotion? A feat from Complete Champion, considered to be the new Spring Attack for Swift Anythings. Because, you know, it is good.
ZiggZagg 02-02-08, 08:24 PM	I do not have Complete Champion, yet, but I do intend on getting it. Is that a feat or a variant feature?
Sinfire Titan 02-02-08, 09:59 PM	I do not have Complete Champion, yet, but I do intend on getting it. Is that a feat or a variant feature? Repeat after me: FeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeatFeat FeatFeatFeatFeat. That's why it is good!
ZiggZagg 02-02-08, 10:09 PM	Interesting. So Travler's Devotion+Swift Ambusher+Telling Blow=Bringing the Pain! Sounds good. I am liking how this character concept is coming out
Sinfire Titan 02-03-08, 12:10 AM	Interesting. So Travler's Devotion+Swift Ambusher+Telling Blow=Bringing the Pain! Sounds good. I am liking how this character concept is coming out Some people swear by Spring Attack with Swift Hunter, I am a person who prefers to have the full attack with Skirmish, as you can't qualify for Rapid Blitz without dipping into Fighter, and even then you don't get the Full Attack. Many Shot or Improved Rapid Shot make Swift Hunter really strong, too.
ZiggZagg 02-03-08, 12:44 AM	Well considering I will be using a Hand Crossbow, many shot and the like are out, but thank you for the help anyway. But with the fact that I am going be using a rapier, telling blow combined with the devoted traveler sounds like an interesting combo indeed