VOP question: Nymph's kiss [Archive] - Wizards Community

VOP question: Nymph's kiss [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ogg205
11-19-07, 02:19 PM Ok, the best feat out of VOP is the nymph's kiss and I'd like to know if the adjudication includes the x4 skill points at level 1.
risner
11-19-07, 04:12 PM Unless the feat is explicit that it grants the bonus skill points on the level it is taken, no.

I think most DM's would allow it unless it says "on your next level you gain 1 more skill point per level" etc.
Merestil Haye
11-19-07, 05:42 PM You choose feats after skill points have already been gained. (PHB p58 gives the order of benefits gained on levelling up). Therefore you shouldn't get the bonus at first level.
Neutronium_Dragon
11-19-07, 09:07 PM It's a little unreasonable to say that feats which explicitly grant skill points don't actually grant them just because you're at a different stage. That would render quite a lot of feats effectively useless since their supposed benefit is being granted at the wrong stage too.
runestar
11-19-07, 09:19 PM It's a little unreasonable to say that feats which explicitly grant skill points don't actually grant them just because you're at a different stage.

Not exactly. We are simply saying that nymph's kiss would not grant 4 skill points at 1st lv because nothing in its entry states that those SPs are multiplied by 4 at 1st lv. For example, if you took the open mind feat (grants you 5 skill points) at 1st lv, you don't get 20 points instead.

That would render quite a lot of feats effectively useless since their supposed benefit is being granted at the wrong stage too.

That is the way it works, unfortunately. For example, while the education feat gives you all knowledge skills as class skills, the fact that it is a feat means that you take it only after you have assigned skill points, which means that you are unable to benefit from it at 1st lv.:(
Scion of Coldshard
11-20-07, 12:14 AM That is the way it works, unfortunately. For example, while the education feat gives you all knowledge skills as class skills, the fact that it is a feat means that you take it only after you have assigned skill points, which means that you are unable to benefit from it at 1st lv.:(

In the DMG on page 199 they are listed in a different order for creating people above 1st level. If we assume that the difference between a character created at 1st level and those created at higher than 1st level should be nil then one could conclude that the order doesnt really matter.. so long as everything is chosen and in place with nothing left over after leveling up.

I would still assume that it is an either or thing though.. you cant spend half of your skill points, then buy a feat, and then spend the other half.. although there arent many cases I could see where it would really be abuseable that way.
Danmation
11-27-07, 02:00 PM I've been thinking about this question lately as well-- nice to see it on the boards.

I have to conclude (even though it hurts my character!) that Nymph's Kiss only grants 1 skill point at first level.

When building a character, you make skills first, then feats. Since the only way you can get Nymph's Kiss at 1st level is if you FIRST take your 1st lvl feat for Sacred Vow, then SECOND take your human bonus feat of Vow of Poverty, then THIRD take your Exalted feat of Nymph's Kiss, I think you can only add 1 skill point.

Another thing to remember is that you can't take Nymph's Kiss and Vow of Chastity (oops!) in the same character: one says you are 'intimate' with a fey, the other says you avoid all sexual contact with all creatures.
risner
11-27-07, 03:03 PM A possibly fully RAW way to gain this at 1st is to be a Human and make Nymph's Kiss your human bonus feat (selected before you take your 1st class level.)
Danmation
11-27-07, 10:13 PM Another thing to remember is that you can't take Nymph's Kiss and Vow of Chastity (oops!) in the same character: one says you are 'intimate' with a fey, the other says you avoid all sexual contact with all creatures.

Yes to NK and Vow of Abstinence, no to NK and Vow of Chastity. Originally I wrote it wrong
JarionSilverblades
12-10-07, 06:52 PM Nymph's Kiss says,

"Starting with the level when you take this feat, you gain 1 extra skill point per level."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ogg205 11-19-07, 02:19 PM	Ok, the best feat out of VOP is the nymph's kiss and I'd like to know if the adjudication includes the x4 skill points at level 1.
risner 11-19-07, 04:12 PM	Unless the feat is explicit that it grants the bonus skill points on the level it is taken, no. I think most DM's would allow it unless it says "on your next level you gain 1 more skill point per level" etc.
Merestil Haye 11-19-07, 05:42 PM	You choose feats after skill points have already been gained. (PHB p58 gives the order of benefits gained on levelling up). Therefore you shouldn't get the bonus at first level.
Neutronium_Dragon 11-19-07, 09:07 PM	It's a little unreasonable to say that feats which explicitly grant skill points don't actually grant them just because you're at a different stage. That would render quite a lot of feats effectively useless since their supposed benefit is being granted at the wrong stage too.
runestar 11-19-07, 09:19 PM	It's a little unreasonable to say that feats which explicitly grant skill points don't actually grant them just because you're at a different stage. Not exactly. We are simply saying that nymph's kiss would not grant 4 skill points at 1st lv because nothing in its entry states that those SPs are multiplied by 4 at 1st lv. For example, if you took the open mind feat (grants you 5 skill points) at 1st lv, you don't get 20 points instead. That would render quite a lot of feats effectively useless since their supposed benefit is being granted at the wrong stage too. That is the way it works, unfortunately. For example, while the education feat gives you all knowledge skills as class skills, the fact that it is a feat means that you take it only after you have assigned skill points, which means that you are unable to benefit from it at 1st lv.:(
Scion of Coldshard 11-20-07, 12:14 AM	That is the way it works, unfortunately. For example, while the education feat gives you all knowledge skills as class skills, the fact that it is a feat means that you take it only after you have assigned skill points, which means that you are unable to benefit from it at 1st lv.:( In the DMG on page 199 they are listed in a different order for creating people above 1st level. If we assume that the difference between a character created at 1st level and those created at higher than 1st level should be nil then one could conclude that the order doesnt really matter.. so long as everything is chosen and in place with nothing left over after leveling up. I would still assume that it is an either or thing though.. you cant spend half of your skill points, then buy a feat, and then spend the other half.. although there arent many cases I could see where it would really be abuseable that way.
Danmation 11-27-07, 02:00 PM	I've been thinking about this question lately as well-- nice to see it on the boards. I have to conclude (even though it hurts my character!) that Nymph's Kiss only grants 1 skill point at first level. When building a character, you make skills first, then feats. Since the only way you can get Nymph's Kiss at 1st level is if you FIRST take your 1st lvl feat for Sacred Vow, then SECOND take your human bonus feat of Vow of Poverty, then THIRD take your Exalted feat of Nymph's Kiss, I think you can only add 1 skill point. Another thing to remember is that you can't take Nymph's Kiss and Vow of Chastity (oops!) in the same character: one says you are 'intimate' with a fey, the other says you avoid all sexual contact with all creatures.
risner 11-27-07, 03:03 PM	A possibly fully RAW way to gain this at 1st is to be a Human and make Nymph's Kiss your human bonus feat (selected before you take your 1st class level.)
Danmation 11-27-07, 10:13 PM	Another thing to remember is that you can't take Nymph's Kiss and Vow of Chastity (oops!) in the same character: one says you are 'intimate' with a fey, the other says you avoid all sexual contact with all creatures. Yes to NK and Vow of Abstinence, no to NK and Vow of Chastity. Originally I wrote it wrong
JarionSilverblades 12-10-07, 06:52 PM	Nymph's Kiss says, "Starting with the level when you take this feat, you gain 1 extra skill point per level."