Vow o' Pov [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Vow o' Pov [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Serge_P
10-18-07, 04:18 PM Example:

Psycho Bob the Psychotic Good paladin gestalt wizard has Vow of Poverty.

Psycho Bob has the Feat :Leadership.

Psycho Bob has a cohort named Wildy.

Wildy hasn't Vow of Poverty and he is a lazy son of the rich King Goq Gar.

Wildy take all the stuff they find.

Bob "volunteers" for Gar; He fights for good and takes his lazy son on adventures to make him a heroic paladin, in return Gar pays a lot of cash to charity and help poor people.

If Gar "borrows" Bob magic items, a spell book and money that Bob doesn't need to pay back, but still doesn't own (Only "borrows"), does he keep the Vow of Poverty*?

*The Knight templars had the vow of poverty and the church borrowed them weapons, items, horses, housing and much more, but that didn't break their vow.
Krusk
10-18-07, 04:41 PM If Gar "borrows" Bob magic items, a spell book and money that Bob doesn't need to pay back, but still doesn't own (Only "borrows"), does he keep the Vow of Poverty*?

No he does not. As per the rules in the book. if you can spin this by your DM it might work, but I doubt it. I know I wouldn't let it happen.

It totally violates the spirt of the feat, and the spirit of the feat is the only thing it is balanced on.
Kapalen
10-18-07, 06:27 PM It says if you borrow something for even a round you lose the feat, I believe the example is a cloak of resistance.
KrisTheGreat
10-18-07, 11:20 PM I would not allow it because the Vow of pov is so overwhelming and unbalanced my advice would be to eliminate it from the game entirely.
dman11235
10-18-07, 11:44 PM Kris, how on earth is it overpowered? You can easily get better stuff with magic items.

But ayway, Bob is clearly violating the spirit of the feat. Actually, you'de be better off not having anything in your possesion at all. It'll be much easier to keep it. If he does "borrow" those things, not only will he lose the benifits of the feat, but he'll never be able to get the benifits again, as he willingly used stuff that he was not allowed to have.
Killydd
10-19-07, 12:16 AM Kris, how on earth is it overpowered? You can easily get better stuff with magic items.

But ayway, Bob is clearly violating the spirit of the feat. Actually, you'de be better off not having anything in your possesion at all. It'll be much easier to keep it. If he does "borrow" those things, not only will he lose the benifits of the feat, but he'll never be able to get the benifits again, as he willingly used stuff that he was not allowed to have.

When you factor in the bonus feats, it is arguably a higher gold value, although it is not as customized as you can get magic items. When you factor in the armor bonus from scratch for a non-armored character, the benefits can easily get out of hand. Druids, Monks, and Sorcerors are all examples that people use to call the feat overpowered.

But yes, the described situation does break the stipulations on the vow of poverty and is decidedly not allowed.
mathew99
10-19-07, 01:11 AM I believe it depends how you "borrow" this item.

Ex: You borrow a potion of cure light wounds, or borrow a wand to cast one spell. (I don't think you can borrow a spell bcause it would be for more then one round, but it could be DM's descression. Ex: say if wildy wasblinded, or entangled or dazzled and he didn't want to mess up casting cure light wounds on himself with the wand, so he asks Bob to do it for him.)
dman11235
10-19-07, 02:25 AM You cannot borrow a wand, scroll, staff, etc. to cast a spell from. You can accept a potion that somebody feeds you (as in, you're unconcious).

Oh, I know that it's a higher gold value. At level 20 you have 696,000 in stat enhancements alone, and then 1,000,000 in the armor bonus. But that's nothing. I'd rather have the magic items that can get more than two stats at +6 or higher, buy tomes, a specialized magic weapon, etc. It's not actually overpowered for monks (I've tried, but I get better monks w/out it), but druids on the other hand, it might be. That's because they are druids though. I guess one way to "break" VoPov monk is to be monk 10/kensai 10 with VoP, and don't overlap as much as possible. That way you can get a +5 holy +9 other enhancement unarmed stike.
Millenia
10-19-07, 03:50 AM If Gar "borrows" Bob magic items, a spell book and money that Bob doesn't need to pay back, but still doesn't own (Only "borrows"), does he keep the Vow of Poverty*?
The word is "lend." A person lends to a person who borrows.

And you're breaking the spirit of the feat. For a spellbook, sure, fine, that's what the wizard class depends on. But mostly everything else, no.
Serge_P
10-19-07, 08:06 AM Is it good for an unbodied Psion Telepath (all)//Swash(3)/monk (Probably the rest of the levels, unless he becomes a binder or something.)?
Legdiwena
10-19-07, 02:07 PM By RAW, spellbook will make you lose the feat.
Krusk
10-20-07, 01:14 AM I think the book specifically says a wizard cant take this feat, if he wants to continue to use and own a spellbook.
dman11235
10-20-07, 02:26 AM Get tattoos (CArc). Take Spell Mastery.
Lokathor
10-20-07, 03:13 AM It's true, Wizards are just inherently shallow and uncharitable.
Legdiwena
10-22-07, 02:40 PM Remember to take Eschew Material Components and Ignore Material Components
dman11235
10-22-07, 03:41 PM Ignore Mat is epic, so take it as early as you can: level 24. Unless you can get a bonus feat at level 22 somehow while retaining spellcraft as a class skill.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Serge_P 10-18-07, 04:18 PM	Example: Psycho Bob the Psychotic Good paladin gestalt wizard has Vow of Poverty. Psycho Bob has the Feat :Leadership. Psycho Bob has a cohort named Wildy. Wildy hasn't Vow of Poverty and he is a lazy son of the rich King Goq Gar. Wildy take all the stuff they find. Bob "volunteers" for Gar; He fights for good and takes his lazy son on adventures to make him a heroic paladin, in return Gar pays a lot of cash to charity and help poor people. If Gar "borrows" Bob magic items, a spell book and money that Bob doesn't need to pay back, but still doesn't own (Only "borrows"), does he keep the Vow of Poverty? The Knight templars had the vow of poverty and the church borrowed them weapons, items, horses, housing and much more, but that didn't break their vow.
Krusk 10-18-07, 04:41 PM	If Gar "borrows" Bob magic items, a spell book and money that Bob doesn't need to pay back, but still doesn't own (Only "borrows"), does he keep the Vow of Poverty*? No he does not. As per the rules in the book. if you can spin this by your DM it might work, but I doubt it. I know I wouldn't let it happen. It totally violates the spirt of the feat, and the spirit of the feat is the only thing it is balanced on.
Kapalen 10-18-07, 06:27 PM	It says if you borrow something for even a round you lose the feat, I believe the example is a cloak of resistance.
KrisTheGreat 10-18-07, 11:20 PM	I would not allow it because the Vow of pov is so overwhelming and unbalanced my advice would be to eliminate it from the game entirely.
dman11235 10-18-07, 11:44 PM	Kris, how on earth is it overpowered? You can easily get better stuff with magic items. But ayway, Bob is clearly violating the spirit of the feat. Actually, you'de be better off not having anything in your possesion at all. It'll be much easier to keep it. If he does "borrow" those things, not only will he lose the benifits of the feat, but he'll never be able to get the benifits again, as he willingly used stuff that he was not allowed to have.
Killydd 10-19-07, 12:16 AM	Kris, how on earth is it overpowered? You can easily get better stuff with magic items. But ayway, Bob is clearly violating the spirit of the feat. Actually, you'de be better off not having anything in your possesion at all. It'll be much easier to keep it. If he does "borrow" those things, not only will he lose the benifits of the feat, but he'll never be able to get the benifits again, as he willingly used stuff that he was not allowed to have. When you factor in the bonus feats, it is arguably a higher gold value, although it is not as customized as you can get magic items. When you factor in the armor bonus from scratch for a non-armored character, the benefits can easily get out of hand. Druids, Monks, and Sorcerors are all examples that people use to call the feat overpowered. But yes, the described situation does break the stipulations on the vow of poverty and is decidedly not allowed.
mathew99 10-19-07, 01:11 AM	I believe it depends how you "borrow" this item. Ex: You borrow a potion of cure light wounds, or borrow a wand to cast one spell. (I don't think you can borrow a spell bcause it would be for more then one round, but it could be DM's descression. Ex: say if wildy wasblinded, or entangled or dazzled and he didn't want to mess up casting cure light wounds on himself with the wand, so he asks Bob to do it for him.)
dman11235 10-19-07, 02:25 AM	You cannot borrow a wand, scroll, staff, etc. to cast a spell from. You can accept a potion that somebody feeds you (as in, you're unconcious). Oh, I know that it's a higher gold value. At level 20 you have 696,000 in stat enhancements alone, and then 1,000,000 in the armor bonus. But that's nothing. I'd rather have the magic items that can get more than two stats at +6 or higher, buy tomes, a specialized magic weapon, etc. It's not actually overpowered for monks (I've tried, but I get better monks w/out it), but druids on the other hand, it might be. That's because they are druids though. I guess one way to "break" VoPov monk is to be monk 10/kensai 10 with VoP, and don't overlap as much as possible. That way you can get a +5 holy +9 other enhancement unarmed stike.
Millenia 10-19-07, 03:50 AM	If Gar "borrows" Bob magic items, a spell book and money that Bob doesn't need to pay back, but still doesn't own (Only "borrows"), does he keep the Vow of Poverty*? The word is "lend." A person lends to a person who borrows. And you're breaking the spirit of the feat. For a spellbook, sure, fine, that's what the wizard class depends on. But mostly everything else, no.
Serge_P 10-19-07, 08:06 AM	Is it good for an unbodied Psion Telepath (all)//Swash(3)/monk (Probably the rest of the levels, unless he becomes a binder or something.)?
Legdiwena 10-19-07, 02:07 PM	By RAW, spellbook will make you lose the feat.
Krusk 10-20-07, 01:14 AM	I think the book specifically says a wizard cant take this feat, if he wants to continue to use and own a spellbook.
dman11235 10-20-07, 02:26 AM	Get tattoos (CArc). Take Spell Mastery.
Lokathor 10-20-07, 03:13 AM	It's true, Wizards are just inherently shallow and uncharitable.
Legdiwena 10-22-07, 02:40 PM	Remember to take Eschew Material Components and Ignore Material Components
dman11235 10-22-07, 03:41 PM	Ignore Mat is epic, so take it as early as you can: level 24. Unless you can get a bonus feat at level 22 somehow while retaining spellcraft as a class skill.