Vow of Poverty & Vow of Peace [Archive] - Wizards Community

Vow of Poverty & Vow of Peace [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GANADAI
07-24-07, 06:44 AM #1 Do you have to concentrate to maintain the calming aura?

#2 If multiple creatures are calmed by the aura and one gets hit, do they all break from the calm effect?

#3 Do I need to add the +4 bonus from Vow of Nonviolence to the DC for the Vow of Peace calming aura and shatter weapon abilities, or is it already calculated into the DC10 + 1/2 caster level + CHA mod?

#4 Vow of Peace says you may not deal ability damage to creatures through weapons. Does this also apply to the Touch of Golden Ice feat when used with a monks unarmed strike or is it an exception since it is an exalted ability?

#5 If you attack someone with an unarmed attack with Touch of Golden Ice, and hit their touch AC but not hit their full AC does the Touch of Golden Ice still effect them even though you do not damage them?
mod5000
07-24-07, 05:25 PM 1: No.
2: No.
3: 10+1/2 HD+Cha Mod is the standard DC for most supernatural abilities, so you should still add the +4 to the DC.
4: No, you can't deal any sort of ability damage, even to the most nefarious of fiends, or even with a Ravage (ie. Touch of Golden Ice)--at least RAW.
5: Two ways to interpret this: if you made the touch AC while attempting to make a regular hit, no. If you made the touch AC while only making a touch attack to apply the Touch of Golden Ice... maybe. Though for the sake of balance, I'd say no, since monks at higher levels would be able to apply it 8 times/round with just BoED and PHB (TWF tree).
GANADAI
07-24-07, 05:41 PM Thanks.
silyolpooh
10-10-07, 01:16 AM Actually, Vow of Peace just says, "You may not deal real damage or ability damage to such creatures through spells or weapons." Golden Ice is neither a spell nor weapon, but as an Exalted Feat it is a Supernatural Ability granted by your divine nature (since you have to be good-aligned to take it).

So I'm not sure Golden Ice is out.

I am sure it's not that useful, either, though.
war_thog
10-10-07, 02:45 AM Arguing that you can do it because it counts as a su ability rather than sp or whatever is a very very thin line to walk.
Its a technicality and your DM may just say no.
runestar
10-10-07, 04:00 AM Actually, Vow of Peace just says, "You may not deal real damage or ability damage to such creatures through spells or weapons." Golden Ice is neither a spell nor weapon, but as an Exalted Feat it is a Supernatural Ability granted by your divine nature (since you have to be good-aligned to take it).

However, considering that you must touch your foe to deal ravage damage, and your unarmed strikes are technically treated as weapons anyways, IIRC. So unless you can find a way of transmitting it without the need for a weapon-based conduit...

But I suppose you could just walk up and pat the evil merchant on the back. BaM! He contracts golden ice...:D
Killydd
10-10-07, 10:05 AM The first line of VoP special requirements is that you may "not cause harm to any living creature." I'd have a very hard time arguing that an ability that deals dexterity damage and causes them to feel cold spreading through their body does not cause them harm. Then again, I also have a hard time believing that it doesn't cause them the "undue suffering" that made them declare that using poison is an evil act.
Legdiwena
10-10-07, 02:46 PM Just fight undead and you're good or constructs
dman11235
10-11-07, 01:45 PM Actually, Vow of Peace just says, "You may not deal real damage or ability damage to such creatures through spells or weapons." Golden Ice is neither a spell nor weapon, but as an Exalted Feat it is a Supernatural Ability granted by your divine nature (since you have to be good-aligned to take it).

You do realize that that violates the spirit of the rule real hard don't you? Even though it doesn't exclude (su) abilities from dealing damage, I'd not allow it in right away, though I shouldn't have to, any VoPeace character wouldn't do that anyway.

@mod5000: Why not allow that? At high levels how many monsters are they fighting with less than a +13 fort save? If you did just make a touch attack to apply Golden Ice, you would just need to hit their touch AC. If it's a regular attack, but miss their normal AC, no.
UraniumKatana
10-11-07, 02:16 PM #1 Do you have to concentrate to maintain the calming aura?No. More importantly, how does one turn it back on when the effect is ended?

#2 If multiple creatures are calmed by the aura and one gets hit, do they all break from the calm effect?
Yes. From Calm Emotions: Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures.
#3 Do I need to add the +4 bonus from Vow of Nonviolence to the DC for the Vow of Peace calming aura and shatter weapon abilities, or is it already calculated into the DC10 + 1/2 caster level + CHA mod?Can't recall.

#4 Vow of Peace says you may not deal ability damage to creatures through weapons. Does this also apply to the Touch of Golden Ice feat when used with a monks unarmed strike or is it an exception since it is an exalted ability?Well, even if it does work, you shouldn't let it. But a monk's unarmed strike is treated as a weapon, so you can't strike people with it. You can't strike people at all.

Please, try and be more peaceful.
#5 If you attack someone with an unarmed attack with Touch of Golden Ice, and hit their touch AC but not hit their full AC does the Touch of Golden Ice still effect them even though you do not damage them?No, you have to make an attack or a touch attack, you can't do both. This is because there is no explicit rule stating which part of your AC is the flatfooted and which is the touch. If you had a +4 ac vs touch attacks and +4 flat-footed attacks and they missed by 4, did they hit your touch or your flat-footed? Technically neither, they just hit.

Your DM may rule otherwise, and subsequently cause you to lose your vow of peace, which is what I would do.

Don't get ability damage attacks and try to combine them with feats that specify you can't do ability damage. It is ultimately 'cheesy'. Why are you trying to build an ability damage dealer with vow of peace anyway?
dman11235
10-11-07, 03:29 PM Actually, you are allowed to stike people, just not with lethal damage or ability damage. So your combat consists of buffing, debuffing, and knock-outs.
UraniumKatana
10-11-07, 03:44 PM Actually, you are allowed to stike people, just not with lethal damage or ability damage. So your combat consists of buffing, debuffing, and knock-outs.
Good points, I had forgotten. Still, no ability damage though. . .

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GANADAI 07-24-07, 06:44 AM	#1 Do you have to concentrate to maintain the calming aura? #2 If multiple creatures are calmed by the aura and one gets hit, do they all break from the calm effect? #3 Do I need to add the +4 bonus from Vow of Nonviolence to the DC for the Vow of Peace calming aura and shatter weapon abilities, or is it already calculated into the DC10 + 1/2 caster level + CHA mod? #4 Vow of Peace says you may not deal ability damage to creatures through weapons. Does this also apply to the Touch of Golden Ice feat when used with a monks unarmed strike or is it an exception since it is an exalted ability? #5 If you attack someone with an unarmed attack with Touch of Golden Ice, and hit their touch AC but not hit their full AC does the Touch of Golden Ice still effect them even though you do not damage them?
mod5000 07-24-07, 05:25 PM	1: No. 2: No. 3: 10+1/2 HD+Cha Mod is the standard DC for most supernatural abilities, so you should still add the +4 to the DC. 4: No, you can't deal any sort of ability damage, even to the most nefarious of fiends, or even with a Ravage (ie. Touch of Golden Ice)--at least RAW. 5: Two ways to interpret this: if you made the touch AC while attempting to make a regular hit, no. If you made the touch AC while only making a touch attack to apply the Touch of Golden Ice... maybe. Though for the sake of balance, I'd say no, since monks at higher levels would be able to apply it 8 times/round with just BoED and PHB (TWF tree).
GANADAI 07-24-07, 05:41 PM	Thanks.
silyolpooh 10-10-07, 01:16 AM	Actually, Vow of Peace just says, "You may not deal real damage or ability damage to such creatures through spells or weapons." Golden Ice is neither a spell nor weapon, but as an Exalted Feat it is a Supernatural Ability granted by your divine nature (since you have to be good-aligned to take it). So I'm not sure Golden Ice is out. I am sure it's not that useful, either, though.
war_thog 10-10-07, 02:45 AM	Arguing that you can do it because it counts as a su ability rather than sp or whatever is a very very thin line to walk. Its a technicality and your DM may just say no.
runestar 10-10-07, 04:00 AM	Actually, Vow of Peace just says, "You may not deal real damage or ability damage to such creatures through spells or weapons." Golden Ice is neither a spell nor weapon, but as an Exalted Feat it is a Supernatural Ability granted by your divine nature (since you have to be good-aligned to take it). However, considering that you must touch your foe to deal ravage damage, and your unarmed strikes are technically treated as weapons anyways, IIRC. So unless you can find a way of transmitting it without the need for a weapon-based conduit... But I suppose you could just walk up and pat the evil merchant on the back. BaM! He contracts golden ice...:D
Killydd 10-10-07, 10:05 AM	The first line of VoP special requirements is that you may "not cause harm to any living creature." I'd have a very hard time arguing that an ability that deals dexterity damage and causes them to feel cold spreading through their body does not cause them harm. Then again, I also have a hard time believing that it doesn't cause them the "undue suffering" that made them declare that using poison is an evil act.
Legdiwena 10-10-07, 02:46 PM	Just fight undead and you're good or constructs
dman11235 10-11-07, 01:45 PM	Actually, Vow of Peace just says, "You may not deal real damage or ability damage to such creatures through spells or weapons." Golden Ice is neither a spell nor weapon, but as an Exalted Feat it is a Supernatural Ability granted by your divine nature (since you have to be good-aligned to take it). You do realize that that violates the spirit of the rule real hard don't you? Even though it doesn't exclude (su) abilities from dealing damage, I'd not allow it in right away, though I shouldn't have to, any VoPeace character wouldn't do that anyway. @mod5000: Why not allow that? At high levels how many monsters are they fighting with less than a +13 fort save? If you did just make a touch attack to apply Golden Ice, you would just need to hit their touch AC. If it's a regular attack, but miss their normal AC, no.
UraniumKatana 10-11-07, 02:16 PM	#1 Do you have to concentrate to maintain the calming aura?No. More importantly, how does one turn it back on when the effect is ended? #2 If multiple creatures are calmed by the aura and one gets hit, do they all break from the calm effect? Yes. From Calm Emotions: Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures. #3 Do I need to add the +4 bonus from Vow of Nonviolence to the DC for the Vow of Peace calming aura and shatter weapon abilities, or is it already calculated into the DC10 + 1/2 caster level + CHA mod?Can't recall. #4 Vow of Peace says you may not deal ability damage to creatures through weapons. Does this also apply to the Touch of Golden Ice feat when used with a monks unarmed strike or is it an exception since it is an exalted ability?Well, even if it does work, you shouldn't let it. But a monk's unarmed strike is treated as a weapon, so you can't strike people with it. You can't strike people at all. Please, try and be more peaceful. #5 If you attack someone with an unarmed attack with Touch of Golden Ice, and hit their touch AC but not hit their full AC does the Touch of Golden Ice still effect them even though you do not damage them?No, you have to make an attack or a touch attack, you can't do both. This is because there is no explicit rule stating which part of your AC is the flatfooted and which is the touch. If you had a +4 ac vs touch attacks and +4 flat-footed attacks and they missed by 4, did they hit your touch or your flat-footed? Technically neither, they just hit. Your DM may rule otherwise, and subsequently cause you to lose your vow of peace, which is what I would do. Don't get ability damage attacks and try to combine them with feats that specify you can't do ability damage. It is ultimately 'cheesy'. Why are you trying to build an ability damage dealer with vow of peace anyway?
dman11235 10-11-07, 03:29 PM	Actually, you are allowed to stike people, just not with lethal damage or ability damage. So your combat consists of buffing, debuffing, and knock-outs.
UraniumKatana 10-11-07, 03:44 PM	Actually, you are allowed to stike people, just not with lethal damage or ability damage. So your combat consists of buffing, debuffing, and knock-outs. Good points, I had forgotten. Still, no ability damage though. . .