Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fork 07-10-07, 06:10 AM	Hi, me and a friend are disagreeing on these two feats. From Vow of Peace you read [QUOTE]Second, you gain a +2 natural armor bonus to your AC, a +2 deflection bonus to your AC, and a +2 exalted bonus to your AC. This exalted bonus does not apply to touch attacks and does not hinder incorporeal touch attacks. Brilliant energy weapons, however, do not ignore it. It does not stack with an armor bonus. If you also have the Vow of Poverty feat, the natural armor, deflection, and exalted Armor Class bonuses granted by that feat all increase by +2.[QUOTE] Imagine a Character level 4. From vow of poverty he has: +0 Natural AC; +0 Deflection AC; +5 Exalted AC Choosing Vow of Peace you get +2 Natural AC; +2 Deflection AC; +2 Exalted AC And we are disagreing on the total AC since it says in the vow of peace that all AC bonuses given by vow of poverty increase +2. I belive that the total AC should be: +4(+2VOP & +2VOPeace) Natural AC; +4(+2VOP & +2VOPeace) Deflection AC; +9(+7VOP & +2VOPeace) Exalted AC My friend belives that that line only says that Vow of Peace and Vow of Poverty AC bonuses stack. And he believes that the total AC should be +2(+0VOP & +2VOPeace) Natural AC; +2(+0VOP & +2VOPeace) Deflection AC; +7(+5VOP & +2VOPeace) Exalted AC Reading the Vow of Peace i can interpret both ways. So wich one of us is Right? Thankful for your answers.
Lucas Blackstone 07-10-07, 06:27 AM	I don't know where your numbers are coming from. It looks like your friend has the correct idea to me. Could you go into more detail how you figure your numbers in the above example?
Fork 07-10-07, 06:36 AM	My numbers: For Natural AC: +2 from Vow of Peace +0 from Vow of Poverty(level 4) +2 from the increment that Vow of Peace gives to Vow of Poverty Totals +4 Natural AC For Deflection AC +2 from Vow of Peace +0 from Vow of Poverty(level 4) +2 from the increment that Vow of Peace gives to Vow of Poverty Totals +4 Deflection AC For Exalted AC +2 from Vow of Peace +5 from Vow of Poverty(level 4) +2 from the increment that Vow of Peace gives to Vow of Poverty Totals +9 Exalted AC My friend's: For Natural AC: +0 from Vow of Peace +0 from Vow of Poverty(level 4) +2 from the increment that Vow of Peace gives to Vow of Poverty Totals +2 Natural AC For Deflection AC +0 from Vow of Peace +0 from Vow of Poverty(level 4) +2 from the increment that Vow of Peace gives to Vow of Poverty Totals +2 Deflection AC For Exalted AC +0 from Vow of Peace +5 from Vow of Poverty(level 4) +2 from the increment that Vow of Peace gives to Vow of Poverty Totals +7 Exalted AC This is where i am getting my numbers. Hope they help
Lucas Blackstone 07-10-07, 07:01 AM	Well, you don't get a bonus to natural armor with VoPo until 8th level. So I don't see how you can add to a bonus that you don't qualify for yet. To me that seems rather clear. The way it reads to me, for a character at level 4 is as follows. 5 exalted ac - Poverty 2 exalted ac - Peace Total of 7. I don't think it( Peace bonuses) was intended to count twice ( once for itself, and once for being added to Poverty since bonuses from the same source don't stack.) 0 natural armor bonus - Poverty ( None granted until level 8) 2 natural armor bonus - Peace Total of 2. Poverty bonus doesn't isn't granted until level 8, so there is no bonus at all, not a bonus of zero) Same with deflection. The reason they tell you the Vow of Poverty bonuses are increased is so you don't use the same source rule and screw yourself out of bonuses that you are entitled to by their design. I don't know if there is official errata either way, but this is how it reads to me.
The.Vortex 07-10-07, 11:16 AM	OK, just using RAW and without the need for any errata, your friend is right.. since you can a) interpret it the way he did => he's right or b) interpret it your way: e.g. Natural Armor: VoPe +2 VoPo +0+2 Since only one bonus of any given type counts, you get a net bonus of +2 (it doesn't matter here that you don't have a natural AC Bonus von VoPo yet) => your friend is right again (at least numbers-wise) A better wording would have been that the bonuses of the two feats stack, but as you can see above, the given wording works as well ;)
zorgling25 07-10-07, 11:24 AM	Your friend is correct, because 2 AC bonuses of the same type do not stack. If you have 2 deflection bonuses, you take the better of the two. The same goes for any other AC modifier except for dodge bonuses. EDIT: Quoted from the SRD: "In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified."