Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RadicalTaoist 02-27-07, 10:43 PM	A note on the original design: I hold to several balance philosophies that motivated me to come up with these feats. The first is that to some degree, all classes should be able to up the throttle and expend more of their available resources in order to deal with tougher challenges. The second is that giving a class new ways to use old class features is a good thing. As such, disenfranchised with barbarians left with several useless rages at the end of the day, I created the following feats. They exist to give barbarians something to do with spare uses of rage. They're meant to power instantaneous or extremely short-duration effects, not impede full attacks or other aspects of melee combat by taking up valuable actions (thus the many swift and immediates), and be balanced against psychic warrior powers on the whole. A note on the flavor: entirely mutable. If you don't like the organizations they imply; cut 'em out. Call 'em [Adrenaline] feats or something. Tie them to gods in your campaign setting. I just wanted to show how they could fit into a world. [Warcry] feats Inheritors of the various barbarian schools and combat traditions have developed unique ways of channeling their wrath. Each distinguishable by their unique battle cries, in the heat of combat they can expend hidden reserves and perform feats of war previously thought unimaginable. All [Warcry] feats are used by expending a daily use of barbarian rage, and as such a character without access to the Rage class feature cannot take these feats. While more useful when activated during a rage, the [Warcry] feats do not require the character to be currently under the effects of rage in order to be used. Despite the description text you need not perform any other actions or meet any other situations to use a [Warcry] feat other than being able to rage (for example, you cannot use a [Warcry] while unconscious). The Song Unyielding feat, for instance, can be used while the barbarian is gagged and unable to sing effectively. Laughing Bloodlust [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Bleeding Smile lineage of berserkers. Overcome with joy in battle, you leap into the fray laughing like a delighted child as your enemies fall at your feet. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As part of a charge, you may expend a daily use of rage to make a full attack at the end of your charge. This charge need not be in a straight line, and you may make the charge over difficult terrain (although such terrain still slows your movement as normal). Possessed Fury [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Hidden Tongues lineage of berserkers. In combat you speak in seemingly nonsensical gibberish that hints at a deeper pattern beyond mortal comprehension. Some arcane sages attribute this to the possession or favour of alien entities from distant cosmos. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As an immediate action, you may expend a daily use of rage to grant yourself unnatural protection from threats and gain an insight bonus equal to your Strength modifier to all saves until the beginning of your next turn. Silent Conviction [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Quiet Power lineage of berserkers. With a wordless stare you inform your opponents that you have no intention of falling to such weaklings. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As an immediate action, you may expend a daily use of rage to gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your current Constitution score times 5. These hit points are deducted from your hit point pool first (like normal hit points) and go away at the beginning of your next turn. Song Unyielding [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Immortal Voice lineage of berserkers. You know the war songs of your fellows by heart, and can draw upon them for the strength to keep going where you should rightly be long dead. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As a swift action, you may expend a daily use of rage to roll a Fortitude save and heal a number of hit points equal to the save result times 2. Wailing Slaughter [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Sorrow's Blade lineage of berserkers. You can channel a great and terrible despair in battle, weeping and crying at the top of your lungs as you appear to flail about wildly. Opponents unsettled by your presence find the area around you to be filled with a deadly storm of steel. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As an immediate action, you may expend a daily use of rage to increase your reach by 5 feet until the beginning of your next turn. During this time, your threatened area counts as difficult terrain to all enemies. Any thoughts? Comments? Suggestions for other such feats?
Tempest Stormwind 02-27-07, 11:00 PM	An interesting idea, to say the least. disenfranchised with barbarians left with several useless rages at the end of the day...Those exist? Barbarians get 5 rages a day at 20th level, and there are on average 4 encounters per day according to the DMG. These look designed with Extra Rage in mind, which is a hidden cost to use any of these -- especially since they're VERY short-duration effects at the cost of a feat (and possibly 2) and a rage use. In general, I'd look into longer-lasting effects to be worth a rage "buck". It's the same general problem that several Wild feats have, by the way -- no one takes them because Wild Shape uses are limited and generally produce better results (setting aside for the moment that Wild Shape >>>>>>>> Rage, of course). I'll comment on the individual feats with this in mind; one consistent thought is that the feats enable a sort of "alternate rage" that could be a valid use in its own right, but would generally produce better results with a rage. (Thus, if you rage with TWO uses of rage instead of one, you get a rage effect plus one of these feats, and so on).Laughing Bloodlust [Rageheir] You are an inheritor of the Bleeding Smile lineage of berserkers. Overcome with joy in battle, you leap into the fray laughing like a delighted child as your enemies fall at your feet. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As part of a charge, you may expend a daily use of rage to make a full attack at the end of your charge. This charge need not be in a straight line, and you may make the charge over difficult terrain (although such terrain still slows your movement as normal).Too weak for a rage use, but a valid idea. I'd consider expending a use of rage to gain the Pounce ability for as long as a rage would normally last instead. I'd have to playtest this to see if the difficult terrain charge restriction would be a good fit, but my gut instinct says it's fine. Possessed Fury [Rageheir] You are an inheritor of the Hidden Tongues lineage of berserkers. In combat you speak in seemingly nonsensical gibberish that hints at a deeper pattern beyond mortal comprehension. Some arcane sages attribute this to the possession or favour of alien entities from distant cosmos. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As an immediate action, you may expend a daily use of rage to grant yourself unnatural protection from threats and gain an insight bonus equal to your Strength modifier to all saves until the beginning of your next turn.Again, short duration, although the effect here is significant. If we go with the longer-duration idea, for the normal duration of a rage, this would enable you to apply your Strength modifier to a single saving throw made each round. If you want to enable it with an immediate action, that would be a good way to handle it -- "For 3+Con modifier rounds, you gain the ability to boost a saving throw by your Strength modifier as an immediate action" would be the sort of effect I'm looking at. Again, unplaytested, though.Silent Promise of Doom [Rageheir] You are an inheritor of the Quiet Power lineage of berserkers. With a wordless stare you inform your opponents that you have no intention of falling to such weaklings. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As an immediate action, you may expend a daily use of rage to gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your current Constitution score times 5. These hit points are deducted from your hit point pool first (like normal hit points) and go away at the beginning of your next turn.1) Temp HP are always deducted first; it's not necessary to mention this again and add in an incorrect qualifier ("like normal hit points") to confuse things. 2) Again, short duration. I don't know how to extend this one, unless you want it to boost your damage reduction or apply your class damage reduction to spell damage.Song Unyielding [Rageheir] You are an inheritor of the Immortal Voice lineage of berserkers. You know the war songs of your fellows by heart, and can draw upon them for the strength to keep going where you should rightly be long dead. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As a swift action, you may expend a daily use of rage to roll a Fortitude save and heal a number of hit points equal to the save result times 2.This is a good idea in general -- but I have to note that unlike all your other feats, this is essentially permanent. Note the duration change -- an instantaneous effect like this might be worth it. I'm not sure about the power of the ability itself -- this seems almost too good for a single feat. That may be my optimizer sense tingling, though.Wailing Slaughter [Rageheir] You are an inheritor of the Sorrow's Blade lineage of berserkers. You can channel a great and terrible despair in battle, weeping and crying at the top of your lungs as you appear to flail about wildly. Opponents unsettled by your presence find the area around you to be filled with a deadly storm of steel. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: As an immediate action, you may expend a daily use of rage to increase your reach by 5 feet until the beginning of your next turn. During this time, your threatened area counts as difficult terrain to all enemies.Again, short-duration, but the effect is very, very good. The variant effect would be to grant one of these for a rage duration, and the other as an immediate action ability during that time (i.e. treat all terrain as difficult, or as an immediate action increase your reach for 1 round). I'll discuss any other ideas I've got with you in person and leave this to the public now.
Crashy75 02-28-07, 12:10 AM	This is a beautiful idea RT. A suggestion or two. I think each of these feats should have a better affect for the improved rages. Also, I remember Szatany had some interesting ideas that use rage in an alternate way. Two that I can remember (furious caster and furious mind I think) give a bonus to the DC/chks to pen sr of a spell or power cast if you sacrifice a rage/day. I think he also had one that let you channel your fury into a single devastating strike. Just going from the ToB i can think of a couple. One, perhaps called 'shrug it off' might allow you to rid yourself of an unwanted enchantment (or perhaps suppress it for your normal rage duration- looking at TS's suggestions.) Perhaps one called 'frenzied attack' that allowed you to attack similar to flurry of blows. Perhaps one called Ferocious Attack that allows you make an attack as a touch attack. Another one of Szatany's I think. One that allows you to make a fear-inducing scream. I'm inspired. I'm going to make a barbarian discipline now. Good luck.
Elf-Killer 02-28-07, 12:57 AM	very interesting ideas presented here, it reminded me of the PrC HellReaver from fiendish codex II, where you've got these "Holy Fury" points to expend at the beginning of every combat... don't really know how you could implement this, but these short-duration effects would be really good if you could use them in every encounter in way similar to the one used in the prc... maybe each feat could give 2 "rage points" to use in every combat or something... really interested in this will turn out... :D
MerlintheTuna 02-28-07, 01:30 AM	Again, short duration, although the effect here is significant. If we go with the longer-duration idea, for the normal duration of a rage, this would enable you to apply your Strength modifier to a single saving throw made each round. If you want to enable it with an immediate action, that would be a good way to handle it -- "For 3+Con modifier rounds, you gain the ability to boost a saving throw by your Strength modifier as an immediate action" would be the sort of effect I'm looking at. Presumably not totally unplaytested -- it's very similar to the feat Channeled Rage from Races of Destiny; the difference being that the official feat is 1 immediate action for 1 Will save, not 1 immediate action for one round of all saves.
RadicalTaoist 03-01-07, 01:13 AM	All right, I'm convinced at this point that you need something more reliable than those single-shot effects to justify costing a rage. I'm also seeing why it might be better to go for duration effects that stack with a rage. I spoke to DisposableHero on MSN and he thought of versions that would be triggered on activating rage rather than by rage uses. Laughing Bloodlust Benefit: If you activate your rage and charge in the same turn you may make a full attack at the end of the charge and charge through difficult terrain (though this still slows your movement) Possessed Fury Benefit: While raging you may spend an immediate action to add your strength modifier as an insight bonus to one saving throw, you must declare the use of this ability before rolling the save Silent Conviction up the base attack bonus to 10 or 12 Benefit: while raging if your hit points would be dropped below zero by an attack you may spend an immediate action to gain a number of temporary hit points equal to five times your constitution modifier (these hit points are applied before the damage from the triggering attack) Song Unyielding Benefit: whenever you succeed on a fortitude save during a rage you are healed a number of hit points equal to the result of that saving throw Wailing Slaughter Benefit: while raging foes treat squares you threaten as difficult terrain. You may spend a move action to increase your reach by 5 feet until the beginning of your next round I still want to keep the aspect of these feats where they represent an alternative use of rages, so I'm thinking of making them into separate effects that last for 3+your Con (or Str) bonus rounds, so that stacking them with a rage increases their duration. Each one costs a use of rage, and yes, I'm thinking of letting different ones stack. In addition to those suggestions DH had this idea for another one. Cry of Defiance Requirements: Base Attack +8, Ability to Rage Benefit: Whenever you succeed on a saving throw while raging you gain a +2 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls for one round, subsequent triggers of this ability in the same round increase the bonus by 2 for each successful save. Awfully situational; entire combats can go by where you don't make a single saving throw. I'm thinking of rolling that into Song Unyielding (call it Song of Defiance) along with the change mentioned above. With some alterations, you'd have it so that for the duration of that feat's effect a successful saving throw (any, not just fort) heals you HP equal to the result and grants a stacking +1 morale (possibly typeless?) bonus to attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn. Thoughts on those mechanical changes? I'm also renaming some things on DH's suggestions as well. Crashy75: After these changes are ironed out I'll see to your ideas. Elf-Killer: Hmm, perhaps making the rage mechanic entirely point-based...
mkill 03-01-07, 07:30 AM	I love the ideas and the flavor, but yeah, barbarians really don't have Rage uses to spend on other stuff. What you could look into are feats that enhance rage. These are from my homebrew thread (link in the sig) * * * GEMINI RAGE [General] Two souls are within you, like inner twins, and when you rage your two sides show. Prerequisite: Barbarian Rage, Str 13+, Dex 13+ Benefit: Whenever you start a rage, you may choose whether to fall into barbarian rage (as outlined in the Player's Handbook) or whether you want to use the Whirling Frenzy variant (from Unearthed Arcana) instead. RAGING HATRED [General] You are nigh-unstoppable when facing your favored enemies. Prerequisite: Rage, Favored Enemy Benefit: If you use your Rage ability while fighting your favored enemy, that Rage does not count against your daily limit of Rages. VIGOROUS RAGE [General] Your will to live is so powerful that wounds slowly close while you rage. Prerequisite: Rage, Con 17+ Benefit: You gain Fast Healing 1 during your rage. IMPROVED VIGOROUS RAGE [General] You recover from wounds even faster when in rage. Prerequisite: Rage, Con 17, Vigorous Rage, base fortitude save 5+ Benefit: You gain Fast Healing 3 while in Rage. This replaces Vigorous Rage. SHIFTER RAGE [Shifter] When you rage your shifter nature takes control. Prerequisites: Shifter, Rage Benefit: You involuntarily shift when you fall into barbarian rage. You gain the attribute bonus and the shifter abilities (as far as they are usable during rage). You turn back to normal after the end of your rage. This shifting does not require an action and it does not count against your daily limit of shifting. * * * My suggestions for your feats: (I removed the flavor text to save space) Laughing Bloodlust [Warcry] Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: If you charge during your rage, you can make a full attack at the end of your charge. This immediately ends your rage. Possessed Fury [Warcry] Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: During your rage, you gain a +2 insight bonus to all saves against spells, spell-like and supernatural abilities. Silent Conviction [Warcry] Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: At the start of your rage, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your character level. If not used up, those hit points go away at the end of your rage. Song Unyielding [Warcry] -> see Vigorous Rage Wailing Slaughter [Warcry] Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: If you perform a full-round attack during your rage, you may jump a number of feet equal to your Jump skill ranks directly before one of your attacks during the sequence. This is not a separate action, it is part of the attack. * * * You should also think about compiling a "Warcry feat series", comparable to the Combat Form feats. Add something like "If you have 4 or more warcry feats, you gain X"
Elf-Killer 03-01-07, 10:17 AM	I had another idea, if changing the rage mechanic entirely point-based isn't what you were looking for, you could use these feats to be more like the Combat Form feats from PHB 2, as it would require less changes to the base class, and the benefits could scalate with the number of [warcry] feats the barbarian has...
Silverthumb128 03-01-07, 05:52 PM	Wow, gotta say, I love these. They aren't too strong granted, but how cool of an idea. Song Unyielding is absolutely fantastic. I want to say that Song Unyielding is a bit too powerful, but at the same time, its not like its broken, because its very situationally dependant in that it relies on you being hit with an effect that forces a Fort save, and upon that, you must pass the save. Plus, as per your updated version, it only activates during a Rage, and other classes generally can heal more by the day's end. This just offers the Barbarian the chance to act on his own strength and guts. Plus, the higher your level goes, the harder Fort saves will be to succeed. Though, Barbarian is one of those gem classes that won't have much trouble dealing with that, with generally Good-High Con, Good Fort progression, and the probability of Steadfast Determination. With that feat, the party Wizard/Sorceror becomes the Barbarian's new best friend very easily. Just let the Barbarian loose, and slap him with piddly, easy to pass spells, like Flare.
Crashy75 03-01-07, 06:14 PM	Did i see the spell resistance version here? I'll just throw it out there anyway. How about an rage feat that gave you spell resistance? A couple more ideas to brainstorm. Immunity to pain and fear-like affects would seem to fit too. I'm thinking all fear, Dazed, Sickened,Stunned, non-lethal dam. Seems weak though. He'll probably not have to worry about most of those anyway because they are fort based. Perhaps add charm and compulsion? Ahhh got to go back 2 work.
Seerow 03-01-07, 06:26 PM	Honestly, this seems like it'd be an -awesome- idea to incorporate into a Barbarian fix, but without having a fix going along with it... You have 5 rages per day at level 20, as TS said. Unless you're playing with one encounter per day, you're sorely hurting for rages already. Even if you drastically improved the benefits, it'd have to go to the point where it's litterally as powerful and long lasting as rage before it was worth it to use these feats instead. I agree with the concept of needing to have options available, and even having some resource to manage being a good thing (Though I lean towards per encounter balance rather than per day balance in most cases). Hrm... there's an idea, but my mind's going back to an overall class fix again. So maybe I should leave this be until I have more time available to me. You may want to keep an eye out for a new Barbarian thread citing you as a source though. Though you can contact me on MSN about it if you like. I have MSN listed publicly for a reason =D
RadicalTaoist 03-03-07, 04:30 PM	You're never on MSN when I am, Seerow. :P Here are the latest incarnations. Laughing Bloodlust [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Bleeding Smile lineage of berserkers. Overcome with joy in battle, you leap into the fray laughing like a delighted child as your enemies fall at your feet. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6, ability to rage Benefits: You may expend a daily use of rage to enter a highly mobile frenzy. For 3 + you Con modifier rounds, you may make a full attack at the end of your charge. Your charges need not be in a straight line, and you may charge over difficult terrain (although such terrain still slows your movement as normal). You gain one additional use of rage per day. Possessed Fury [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Hidden Tongues lineage of berserkers. In combat you speak in seemingly nonsensical gibberish that hints at a deeper pattern beyond mortal comprehension. Some arcane sages attribute this to the possession or favour of alien entities from distant cosmos. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +8 Benefits: You may expend a daily use of rage to enter call upon unnatural protection for 3 + your Con modifier rounds. While in this state, you may grant yourself an insight bonus equal to your Strength modifier to a single saving throw as an immediate action. You gain one additional use of rage per day. Silent Conviction [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Quiet Power lineage of berserkers. With a wordless stare you inform your opponents that you have no intention of falling to such weaklings. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +10 Benefits: You may expend a daily use of rage to become terrifyingly resilient for 3 + your Con modifier rounds. While in this state, if your hit points are reduced to 0 or lower you may gain a number of temporary hit points equal to your current Constitution score times 5 as an immediate action. You gain one additional use of rage per day. Song of Defiance [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Immortal Voice lineage of berserkers. You know the war songs of your fellows by heart, and can draw upon them for the strength to keep going where you should rightly be long dead. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: You may expend a daily use of rage to communicate your unyielding will to your foes for 3 + your Con modifier rounds. During this time, if you succeed on a saving throw against an enemy's attack or effect, you heal an amount of hit point equal to your result on the saving throw roll (the die result plus any modifiers) and gain a +1 morale bonus to melee attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn. This morale bonus increases by 1 for every successful saving throw you make if you succeed on multiple saving throws against hostiles in a single turn. You gain one additional use of rage per day. Wailing Slaughter [Warcry] You are an inheritor of the Sorrow's Blade lineage of berserkers. You can channel a great and terrible despair in battle, weeping and crying at the top of your lungs as you appear to flail about wildly. Opponents unsettled by your presence find the area around you to be filled with a deadly storm of steel. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +6 Benefits: You may expend a daily use of rage to force your enemies to treat your threatened area as difficult terrain for 3 + your Con bonus rounds. During this time, you may increase your reach by 5 feet until the beginning of your next turn as a move action. You gain one additional use of rage per day. Entering a state provided by a [Warcry] feat is exactly like entering a rage (free action, once per encounter, fatigued afterwards, etc.). I'm undecided on whether you should be able to activate more than one [Warcry] feat at a time. What think y'allz?
Seerow 03-04-07, 02:52 AM	You're never on MSN when I am, Seerow. Here are the latest incarnations. Well when the hell are you on MSN? Cause seriously, even if I'm not actively online doing something, Im generally on MSN about 12 hours a day =P Actually, I recently changed MSN SNs, and I couldn't remember what yours was. That may be part of the problem. But this was just a week or so ago, and for a month prior I hadn't seen you. idealistic[dot]hypocrite[at]gmail[dot]com is the new MSN SN. I actually totally forgot I switched, havent updated my profile either =P