Warforged+body feat+VoP=?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warforged+body feat+VoP=?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lionhearted
07-24-07, 09:40 AM Let say that a warforged was crafted with a mithral layer, thus he has the mithral body feat at first level, what does then happen if he takes VoP?
It would seem illogical that you have a armor worth several thousands and still keep your vow intact :P
SolenVlos
07-24-07, 09:45 AM If I were the DM, I would say you need to enter a quest to find a way to remove the armor and donate the melted mithral, thus re-training the mithral body to unarmored body feat.
Irving
07-24-07, 10:15 AM I disagree. You're presuming that the warforged chose to have the mithril body; that's not necessarily the case in game. Just becuase your body might be worth a lot of money doesn't mean that you need to give it away; otherwise, everyone with a Vow of Poverty would have to sell themselves into slavery at the first possible option, and (in RL) donating a kidney would be a prerequisite for joining the Fransiscans.
runestar
07-24-07, 10:19 AM I disagree that the mithral body should be treated as a material possession. It does not have an intrinsic gp cost. Heck, it is just a feat whose benefit happens to replicate the stats of an existing item. But it is ultimately not an item, that is the difference.

Also note that it was stated somewhere that the body armour cannot be harvested in any way. So you cannot argue that the warforged should be stripping himself of his armour to sell.

Thus, a warforged could take body feats and keep VOP. Heck, he could even get them enchanted later on.:)
Radijs
07-24-07, 10:21 AM I'm with Solenvlos on this one.
And I wouldn't allow then to be enchanted either.
SolenVlos
07-24-07, 10:28 AM It can not be his choice, but it is his choice to keep it. he should donate it the same why he needs to donate his share of the loot.

the same way If I were born with a filthy rich father, and had an absurd heritage, say like paris hilton. then every one dies and she keeps all the money, and she takes vow of powerty - she would need to get rid of all the wealth (that she didn't chose to have, nor worked to have it) to be acctually poor.

at least, that's my view if I were the DM.
runestar
07-24-07, 10:36 AM It can not be his choice, but it is his choice to keep it. he should donate it the same why he needs to donate his share of the loot.

The point is that it cannot be donated. I cannot recall which Eberron splatbook this was mentioned in, but it was stated that the mithral plating would degenerate into a worthless metal if separated from the warforged (it was probably created to prevent players from stripping warforged npcs of their bodies to forge into armour).

It is part of his body. He need not part with it any more than a player with VOP needs to sell his internal organs to raise funds to donate to charity.

Anyway, what does it matter? The armour bonus you get quickly gets superseded by the armour bonus granted by VOP anyways.
Salla
07-24-07, 12:14 PM The point is that it cannot be donated. I cannot recall which Eberron splatbook this was mentioned in, but it was stated that the mithral plating would degenerate into a worthless metal if separated from the warforged (it was probably created to prevent players from stripping warforged npcs of their bodies to forge into armour).

It is part of his body. He need not part with it any more than a player with VOP needs to sell his internal organs to raise funds to donate to charity.

Anyway, what does it matter? The armour bonus you get quickly gets superseded by the armour bonus granted by VOP anyways.

It was a Dragonshards article, actually. After the composite plating is removed from a Warforged, it rots and pits, rapidly becoming useless. As far as the VoP goes, I would adapt the ruling made for the Tattooed Monk's tattoos in the FAQ ... it's a feat, not an item (the tattoos are class features, not items, sayeth the Sage), and is no more denied through the acquisition of the VoP than Power Attack would be.
Warforged Goblin
07-24-07, 12:15 PM Runestar is correct, whenever any semi-precious material is built into a warforged, it cannot be removed for the purposes of sale. Also, if I remember VoP correctly, the stipulation is placed upon items, not feats, which Mithril Body is. Don't focus on the fluff, focus on the crunch. How much money did it cost to take the Mithril Body feat? And if you really have a problem with that feat, what about other feats that provide armor bonuses? Would you tell a VoP fighter with the Shield Specialization feat (PHB II, increases shield bonus to AC by 1) that he needs to get rid of it because it's the equivalent to a +1 bonus? Would you tell a VoP kobold with the Improved Natural Armor feat that he needs flay his skin off because it's just like having an amulet of natural armor +1?

Hard and fast for the Vow of Poverty, if you didn't spend money on it, you can keep it.
TiwazTyrsfist
07-24-07, 12:51 PM You cannot expect a person to donate their skin to a worthy cause as part of vow of poverty.

Why is this even a question?

"Oh noes! Mah Mythril Body Warforged Monk with VoP iz gunna be eben MOAR Over Poweredz!"

I am a latent power gamer (I'm getting help, honestly) when I first got my BoED and read through the feats, my first thought was, Oh, VoP is MADE for Monks...

VoP is a powergamers wet dream.

So, allowing a player to have VoP and a feat that the equivilent of mythral armor, or a feat that replicates having a +5 flaming burst longsword, or a feat that lets them cast Wish at will with no XP cost, won't make them any more broken than Vow of Poverty does by itself. Well, okay the wish one will, but I was going for something there.
Frozen Yakman
07-24-07, 12:54 PM VoP is a powergamers wet dream.

Except that it, in general, makes you less powerful.
_Radagast_
07-24-07, 01:01 PM What book is VoP in?
Lionhearted
07-24-07, 01:23 PM What book is VoP in?

BoED
Radijs
07-24-07, 03:46 PM Book of Exalted Deeds.

And indeed. The actual value of what you get from a vow of poverty is, when compared to the wealth per level table significantly less then what you give up.

With the exception of maybe a druid I would always prefer money over the vow.
jago668
07-24-07, 04:21 PM Well it really depends. We played in a stupid broken epic game once. The only magic items my character used were in the making of his obdurian golems to guard his own demi-plane (the thing you get from the genesis power as a psion). I spent something like 17 million gold on a weapon that I never used. Just because I had the gold to use.

So if you are playing in a stupidly broken overpowered epic game. Vow of Poverty might not be that much of a hit really.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lionhearted 07-24-07, 09:40 AM	Let say that a warforged was crafted with a mithral layer, thus he has the mithral body feat at first level, what does then happen if he takes VoP? It would seem illogical that you have a armor worth several thousands and still keep your vow intact :P
SolenVlos 07-24-07, 09:45 AM	If I were the DM, I would say you need to enter a quest to find a way to remove the armor and donate the melted mithral, thus re-training the mithral body to unarmored body feat.
Irving 07-24-07, 10:15 AM	I disagree. You're presuming that the warforged chose to have the mithril body; that's not necessarily the case in game. Just becuase your body might be worth a lot of money doesn't mean that you need to give it away; otherwise, everyone with a Vow of Poverty would have to sell themselves into slavery at the first possible option, and (in RL) donating a kidney would be a prerequisite for joining the Fransiscans.
runestar 07-24-07, 10:19 AM	I disagree that the mithral body should be treated as a material possession. It does not have an intrinsic gp cost. Heck, it is just a feat whose benefit happens to replicate the stats of an existing item. But it is ultimately not an item, that is the difference. Also note that it was stated somewhere that the body armour cannot be harvested in any way. So you cannot argue that the warforged should be stripping himself of his armour to sell. Thus, a warforged could take body feats and keep VOP. Heck, he could even get them enchanted later on.:)
Radijs 07-24-07, 10:21 AM	I'm with Solenvlos on this one. And I wouldn't allow then to be enchanted either.
SolenVlos 07-24-07, 10:28 AM	It can not be his choice, but it is his choice to keep it. he should donate it the same why he needs to donate his share of the loot. the same way If I were born with a filthy rich father, and had an absurd heritage, say like paris hilton. then every one dies and she keeps all the money, and she takes vow of powerty - she would need to get rid of all the wealth (that she didn't chose to have, nor worked to have it) to be acctually poor. at least, that's my view if I were the DM.
runestar 07-24-07, 10:36 AM	It can not be his choice, but it is his choice to keep it. he should donate it the same why he needs to donate his share of the loot. The point is that it cannot be donated. I cannot recall which Eberron splatbook this was mentioned in, but it was stated that the mithral plating would degenerate into a worthless metal if separated from the warforged (it was probably created to prevent players from stripping warforged npcs of their bodies to forge into armour). It is part of his body. He need not part with it any more than a player with VOP needs to sell his internal organs to raise funds to donate to charity. Anyway, what does it matter? The armour bonus you get quickly gets superseded by the armour bonus granted by VOP anyways.
Salla 07-24-07, 12:14 PM	The point is that it cannot be donated. I cannot recall which Eberron splatbook this was mentioned in, but it was stated that the mithral plating would degenerate into a worthless metal if separated from the warforged (it was probably created to prevent players from stripping warforged npcs of their bodies to forge into armour). It is part of his body. He need not part with it any more than a player with VOP needs to sell his internal organs to raise funds to donate to charity. Anyway, what does it matter? The armour bonus you get quickly gets superseded by the armour bonus granted by VOP anyways. It was a Dragonshards article, actually. After the composite plating is removed from a Warforged, it rots and pits, rapidly becoming useless. As far as the VoP goes, I would adapt the ruling made for the Tattooed Monk's tattoos in the FAQ ... it's a feat, not an item (the tattoos are class features, not items, sayeth the Sage), and is no more denied through the acquisition of the VoP than Power Attack would be.
Warforged Goblin 07-24-07, 12:15 PM	Runestar is correct, whenever any semi-precious material is built into a warforged, it cannot be removed for the purposes of sale. Also, if I remember VoP correctly, the stipulation is placed upon items, not feats, which Mithril Body is. Don't focus on the fluff, focus on the crunch. How much money did it cost to take the Mithril Body feat? And if you really have a problem with that feat, what about other feats that provide armor bonuses? Would you tell a VoP fighter with the Shield Specialization feat (PHB II, increases shield bonus to AC by 1) that he needs to get rid of it because it's the equivalent to a +1 bonus? Would you tell a VoP kobold with the Improved Natural Armor feat that he needs flay his skin off because it's just like having an amulet of natural armor +1? Hard and fast for the Vow of Poverty, if you didn't spend money on it, you can keep it.
TiwazTyrsfist 07-24-07, 12:51 PM	You cannot expect a person to donate their skin to a worthy cause as part of vow of poverty. Why is this even a question? "Oh noes! Mah Mythril Body Warforged Monk with VoP iz gunna be eben MOAR Over Poweredz!" I am a latent power gamer (I'm getting help, honestly) when I first got my BoED and read through the feats, my first thought was, Oh, VoP is MADE for Monks... VoP is a powergamers wet dream. So, allowing a player to have VoP and a feat that the equivilent of mythral armor, or a feat that replicates having a +5 flaming burst longsword, or a feat that lets them cast Wish at will with no XP cost, won't make them any more broken than Vow of Poverty does by itself. Well, okay the wish one will, but I was going for something there.
Frozen Yakman 07-24-07, 12:54 PM	VoP is a powergamers wet dream. Except that it, in general, makes you less powerful.
_Radagast_ 07-24-07, 01:01 PM	What book is VoP in?
Lionhearted 07-24-07, 01:23 PM	What book is VoP in? BoED
Radijs 07-24-07, 03:46 PM	Book of Exalted Deeds. And indeed. The actual value of what you get from a vow of poverty is, when compared to the wealth per level table significantly less then what you give up. With the exception of maybe a druid I would always prefer money over the vow.
jago668 07-24-07, 04:21 PM	Well it really depends. We played in a stupid broken epic game once. The only magic items my character used were in the making of his obdurian golems to guard his own demi-plane (the thing you get from the genesis power as a psion). I spent something like 17 million gold on a weapon that I never used. Just because I had the gold to use. So if you are playing in a stupidly broken overpowered epic game. Vow of Poverty might not be that much of a hit really.