Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rhonin the Big 07-04-07, 02:15 PM	If I am a gestalt wizard/fighter with weapon supremacy (ray), does that mean I can cast ray spells in a grapple even with somatic and material components?
Thiez 07-04-07, 02:34 PM	No. You can use the ray when you want to, but not the spell used to create it. And you can never get that feat, since you need Weapon Mastery to take it, and I don't know any rays that deal slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning damage.
Part-Human2 07-04-07, 06:19 PM	No I'd say because the feat states "you can wield your weapon against a foe that grapples you without penalty" not that you can cast a spell without penalty.
Rhonin the Big 07-04-07, 07:08 PM	No. You can use the ray when you want to, but not the spell used to create it. And you can never get that feat, since you need Weapon Mastery to take it, and I don't know any rays that deal slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning damage. Make it a gestalt psion/fighter using Crystal Shard, cuz psions haven't caused enough GBI what with firing their little mind crystals. No I'd say because the feat states "you can wield your weapon against a foe that grapples you without penalty" not that you can cast a spell without penalty. The weapon I am wielding just happens to be a ray spell, they are weaponlike as per Complete Arcane.
Lecen_of_Mitran 07-04-07, 07:12 PM	No I'd say because the feat states "you can wield your weapon against a foe that grapples you without penalty" not that you can cast a spell without penalty. It doensīt matter. You canīt even take such feat! You need meele of ranged Weapon Mastery to take Weapon Supremacy.
Thiez 07-04-07, 07:13 PM	Is Crystal Shard a ray?
NoldorForce 07-04-07, 11:46 PM	Is Crystal Shard a ray?It has the line "Effect: Ray", so yes. Weapon Supremacy lets you attack with the weapon in question without penalty. This doesn't mean that other related penalties don't still come into play. Weapon Supremacy doesn't remove the Concentration roll required to cast the spell or manifest the power, as that is something that comes before your attack. (In the case of Weapon Supremacy and similar effects, the term "attack" refers to the attack roll/damage roll/DR/etc. sequence, not the general term "attack" as used with Invisibility.) Despite this, it will remove the normal -4 penalty to actually use the power or spell in a grapple.
Rhonin the Big 07-05-07, 12:21 AM	Wield my weapon without penalty means without penalty, fighters normally could not use two-handed weapons while being grappled but thanx to Weapon Supremacy they can. Note that it says "wield" and not "attack." And finally, PHB2 was so well written that if Weapon Supremacy was really intended to let you attack with your chosen weapon without taking the -4 penalty it would say so, instead it also ignores weapon size restrictions, opposed grapple checks to even attack with the weapon in the first place and even the flavor text seems to have that "nothing can stop the weapon I specialized in" kinda feel to it. I don't see anything to oppose my claim so off to the CO boards I go!
jaelis 07-05-07, 12:23 AM	One could argue that if you didn't have Weapon Sup (ray), you couldn't use a ray spell in a grapple at all, since it's a ranged weapon and you can't used a ranged weapon in a grapple. Weapon Sup (if you could get it), would bypass that restriction. But you're still casting the spell, that's separate from the actual attack, and you still need to deal with the rules for casting a spell in a grapple. Similarly, if you had Weapon Sup (unarmed strike), you would still have to make a concentration check when casting a touch spell in a grapple, even if you deliver it using an unarmed strike. I don't see anything to oppose my claim so off to the CO boards I go! Perhaps you should take your blinders off then? a) You can't take Ranged Weapon Mastery (ray), so you can't take Weapon Sup (ray) b) Weapon Sup doesn't help with casting a spell.
Part-Human2 07-05-07, 12:23 AM	... The weapon I am wielding just happens to be a ray spell, they are weaponlike as per Complete Arcane. Well, if you're referring to Complete Arcane, check out pg 72 where it lists the only Eligible Feats that can apply to weaponlike spells (obviously Weapon Supremacy nor Mastery is not among them). You should be able to convince your DM to add more. In either case, the firing of the ray is included in the casting of the spell which isn't helped by Weapon Supremacy (as others have noted).
Rhonin the Big 07-05-07, 12:28 AM	One could argue that if you didn't have Weapon Sup (ray), you couldn't use a ray spell in a grapple at all, since it's a ranged weapon and you can't used a ranged weapon in a grapple. Weapon Sup (if you could get it), would bypass that restriction. But you're still casting the spell, that's separate from the actual attack, and you still need to deal with the rules for casting a spell in a grapple. Similarly, if you had Weapon Sup (unarmed strike), you would still have to make a concentration check when casting a touch spell in a grapple, even if you deliver it using an unarmed strike. Thank you very much, I will never speak of this ultimate combo again.