What feats allow for wielding... [Archive] - Wizards Community

What feats allow for wielding... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ErodirTheSwift
04-29-08, 11:11 PM What feats or skills allow for wielding two-handed weapons one-handed? I am trying to create a core class that can fight with two-handed weapons that weigh between 15 and 25lbs with only one hand and receive no penalties at higher levels. I created the class skill below to do that job.

Vanguard (Fire Emblem)

One-handed: At 1st level a vanguard is able to wield a single two-handed weapon in one hand at a cost of -8 to attack rolls. At 5th level you are able to wield a weapon in one hand with a -4 penalty on rolls. At 8th level the vanguard is able to wield all weapons one-handed with a -2 penalty. At 12th level he can wield any weapons one handed he receives no penalties when attacking.
jaelis
04-29-08, 11:15 PM What feats or skills allow for wielding two-handed weapons one-handed?
Only one I know of is Martial Weapon Proficiency (lance) :)

The approved way to achieve what you are after is to instead wield a larger-sized 1H weapon in one hand, and there are many ways to achieve that (monkey grip, powerful build, strongarm bracers, etc). In most cases, this is functionally equivalent to what you are talking about.

I'm not totally sure why it is consistently done this way, but to follow the preferred form, I would set up your class like that. For instance, it could grant a limited version of monkey grip for 1H weapons only, and then gradually reduce the wielding bonus to zero.
ErodirTheSwift
04-29-08, 11:19 PM If you were trying to avoid the monkey grip thing what would you recomend?
jaelis
04-30-08, 12:11 AM What aspect are you trying to avoid? The penalties or the fact that you still can't wield a greatsword in one hand?
ErodirTheSwift
04-30-08, 12:18 AM I am trying to avoid both the penalties and the fact that you can't wield a greatsword in one hand.
jaelis
04-30-08, 12:22 AM For the penalties, just make a class feature that takes them away. It's not that big a deal.., if tempest can do it for TWF, your PRC can do it for monkey grip.

If you really want to wield a greatsword in one hand, ignore precedent and allow it. You might as well just let monkey grip work that way in general. Just make sure you don't have the type of player who claims that they should get 1-1/2 Str to damage when wielding a 2H weapon in one hand.
ErodirTheSwift
04-30-08, 12:27 AM The class skill I created was designed to majorly restrict a player until level 8 and no longer restrict them once they reach level 12. So if i work it that way with out the monkey grip does it seem balanced?
mplindustries
04-30-08, 12:28 AM Honestly, I don't think its worth it at all to wield two-handed weapons in one hand. The power of two handed weapons comes from the 1.5 x str and the 2:1 power attack ratio, not the slightly larger base dice.

I think the way you are handling it for your class is just fine, if a little bit on the weak side. It would really depend on what other abilities you are proposing for the class to see how powerful the ability is.

Consider it this way:
The difference between a Longsword and a Greatsword is an average of 2.5 damage. The difference between a Battleaxe and a Greataxe is only 2. What penalty is appropriate to compensate for ~2 damage? A fighter at 4th level can take Weapon Specialization, which gives +2 damage flat out. I'd think the ability to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand is probably appropriate for around that level. Now the fact that you can potentially also take weapon spec suggests pushing it back a little. I'd do, maybe -4 at level 1, -2 at level 4-6, and no penalty by level 10. That recommendation is of course pending a full examination of the proposed class to make sure it doesn't get other abilities that make the ability to wield a larger weapon even better.

Anyway, wielding bigger weapons (by itself) is really not as powerful as people always seem to think it is.
ErodirTheSwift
04-30-08, 12:41 AM I will be posting the class in a couple days I am still trying to work on balancing but as for the class skill on its own they seem weak. I have taken the advice to lower the levels for the class skill called one-handed and just finished the class... I am new to the forums and don't know how to make tables though so could you please tell me how to make a table on here before i post it
ciaran
05-01-08, 12:35 AM The only feats I can think of are EWP Bastard Sword and EWP War Axe. ;)
ErodirTheSwift
05-01-08, 12:39 AM Thats what came to my mind as well but my class can wield all weapons in one hand no matter size and weight which kinda breaks the template for the bigger weapons i.e. pole-arms and lances
jstewaf
05-01-08, 03:24 AM I played a knight and the feat i took was "wield oversize wpn" so i can hold my lance in one hand, hold my shield in the other while controlling my mount with my knees. Worked fine for me
AtsuiShoto
05-01-08, 08:47 AM I've found th best way to make a table is to use code tags. You put "CODE" at the beginning, "/CODE" at the end, and replace those parentheses with square brackets. The table itself is made to look nice in Notepad.exe (or any app with the Courier New font), then copy/pasted into the space between the CODE tags.

Simple enough.
jaelis
05-01-08, 11:36 AM I played a knight and the feat i took was "wield oversize wpn" so i can hold my lance in one hand, hold my shield in the other while controlling my mount with my knees. Worked fine for me
This doesn't require a special feat. Anyone can wield a lance in one hand while mounted.
Jay_Ibero_911
05-01-08, 12:57 PM For what it's worth, except for the -2 attack penalty, wielding a large longsword is effectively the same as a medium greatsword, and you can wield a large longsword 1-handed with monkey grip. With exotic weapon proficiency (Bastard Sword) and Monkey Grip, with a large bastard sword you are wielding a weapon larger than a medium greatsword in one hand.
ErodirTheSwift
05-01-08, 03:17 PM So feat wise I wold have to take a monkey Grip or a "Wield over sized weapon" feat as for class skills the mechanics I have set up look good?
ErodirTheSwift
05-01-08, 03:17 PM So feat wise I would have to take a monkey Grip or a "Wield over sized weapon" feat as for class skills the mechanics I have set up look good?

Sorry about the double post
Maglisis
05-01-08, 05:09 PM I would think this to be more of a 'min-max' question.. sorry, but wielding 2 2hd weapons would have to be in the epic range of levels if anything, not around 10 or 15. Not to mention even if you are playing any normal kind of race they would have no chance in being able to attack with a weapon of this size without massive armor restrictions and possibly a low max-dex due to the fact it would be very difficult to block wielding weapons of this size if your character is under 8-9ft tall. Just throwing things out there to consider..
Jay_Ibero_911
05-01-08, 06:32 PM I would think this to be more of a 'min-max' question.. sorry, but wielding 2 2hd weapons would have to be in the epic range of levels if anything, not around 10 or 15. Not to mention even if you are playing any normal kind of race they would have no chance in being able to attack with a weapon of this size without massive armor restrictions and possibly a low max-dex due to the fact it would be very difficult to block wielding weapons of this size if your character is under 8-9ft tall. Just throwing things out there to consider..

Well with just Monkey Grip and oversized TWF you can wield a large sized longsword in one hand and a medium longsword in your off-hand with only a -4 penalty to hit with your main hand and -2 with your off hand...
ToastedAmphibian
05-01-08, 06:50 PM The main diffrence between using a large 1 handed weapon one handed, and a mediunm 2-handed weapon one handed? Reach weapons.
ErodirTheSwift
05-02-08, 03:31 PM Before I let this drop into the depths just let me say thanks for all the help and if anyone has anything else they wish to say about this topic please don't hesitate. I think i fixed my problem and will hopefully make it better once 4E comes out

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ErodirTheSwift 04-29-08, 11:11 PM	What feats or skills allow for wielding two-handed weapons one-handed? I am trying to create a core class that can fight with two-handed weapons that weigh between 15 and 25lbs with only one hand and receive no penalties at higher levels. I created the class skill below to do that job. Vanguard (Fire Emblem) One-handed: At 1st level a vanguard is able to wield a single two-handed weapon in one hand at a cost of -8 to attack rolls. At 5th level you are able to wield a weapon in one hand with a -4 penalty on rolls. At 8th level the vanguard is able to wield all weapons one-handed with a -2 penalty. At 12th level he can wield any weapons one handed he receives no penalties when attacking.
jaelis 04-29-08, 11:15 PM	What feats or skills allow for wielding two-handed weapons one-handed? Only one I know of is Martial Weapon Proficiency (lance) :) The approved way to achieve what you are after is to instead wield a larger-sized 1H weapon in one hand, and there are many ways to achieve that (monkey grip, powerful build, strongarm bracers, etc). In most cases, this is functionally equivalent to what you are talking about. I'm not totally sure why it is consistently done this way, but to follow the preferred form, I would set up your class like that. For instance, it could grant a limited version of monkey grip for 1H weapons only, and then gradually reduce the wielding bonus to zero.
ErodirTheSwift 04-29-08, 11:19 PM	If you were trying to avoid the monkey grip thing what would you recomend?
jaelis 04-30-08, 12:11 AM	What aspect are you trying to avoid? The penalties or the fact that you still can't wield a greatsword in one hand?
ErodirTheSwift 04-30-08, 12:18 AM	I am trying to avoid both the penalties and the fact that you can't wield a greatsword in one hand.
jaelis 04-30-08, 12:22 AM	For the penalties, just make a class feature that takes them away. It's not that big a deal.., if tempest can do it for TWF, your PRC can do it for monkey grip. If you really want to wield a greatsword in one hand, ignore precedent and allow it. You might as well just let monkey grip work that way in general. Just make sure you don't have the type of player who claims that they should get 1-1/2 Str to damage when wielding a 2H weapon in one hand.
ErodirTheSwift 04-30-08, 12:27 AM	The class skill I created was designed to majorly restrict a player until level 8 and no longer restrict them once they reach level 12. So if i work it that way with out the monkey grip does it seem balanced?
mplindustries 04-30-08, 12:28 AM	Honestly, I don't think its worth it at all to wield two-handed weapons in one hand. The power of two handed weapons comes from the 1.5 x str and the 2:1 power attack ratio, not the slightly larger base dice. I think the way you are handling it for your class is just fine, if a little bit on the weak side. It would really depend on what other abilities you are proposing for the class to see how powerful the ability is. Consider it this way: The difference between a Longsword and a Greatsword is an average of 2.5 damage. The difference between a Battleaxe and a Greataxe is only 2. What penalty is appropriate to compensate for ~2 damage? A fighter at 4th level can take Weapon Specialization, which gives +2 damage flat out. I'd think the ability to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand is probably appropriate for around that level. Now the fact that you can potentially also take weapon spec suggests pushing it back a little. I'd do, maybe -4 at level 1, -2 at level 4-6, and no penalty by level 10. That recommendation is of course pending a full examination of the proposed class to make sure it doesn't get other abilities that make the ability to wield a larger weapon even better. Anyway, wielding bigger weapons (by itself) is really not as powerful as people always seem to think it is.
ErodirTheSwift 04-30-08, 12:41 AM	I will be posting the class in a couple days I am still trying to work on balancing but as for the class skill on its own they seem weak. I have taken the advice to lower the levels for the class skill called one-handed and just finished the class... I am new to the forums and don't know how to make tables though so could you please tell me how to make a table on here before i post it
ciaran 05-01-08, 12:35 AM	The only feats I can think of are EWP Bastard Sword and EWP War Axe. ;)
ErodirTheSwift 05-01-08, 12:39 AM	Thats what came to my mind as well but my class can wield all weapons in one hand no matter size and weight which kinda breaks the template for the bigger weapons i.e. pole-arms and lances
jstewaf 05-01-08, 03:24 AM	I played a knight and the feat i took was "wield oversize wpn" so i can hold my lance in one hand, hold my shield in the other while controlling my mount with my knees. Worked fine for me
AtsuiShoto 05-01-08, 08:47 AM	I've found th best way to make a table is to use code tags. You put "CODE" at the beginning, "/CODE" at the end, and replace those parentheses with square brackets. The table itself is made to look nice in Notepad.exe (or any app with the Courier New font), then copy/pasted into the space between the CODE tags. Simple enough.
jaelis 05-01-08, 11:36 AM	I played a knight and the feat i took was "wield oversize wpn" so i can hold my lance in one hand, hold my shield in the other while controlling my mount with my knees. Worked fine for me This doesn't require a special feat. Anyone can wield a lance in one hand while mounted.
Jay_Ibero_911 05-01-08, 12:57 PM	For what it's worth, except for the -2 attack penalty, wielding a large longsword is effectively the same as a medium greatsword, and you can wield a large longsword 1-handed with monkey grip. With exotic weapon proficiency (Bastard Sword) and Monkey Grip, with a large bastard sword you are wielding a weapon larger than a medium greatsword in one hand.
ErodirTheSwift 05-01-08, 03:17 PM	So feat wise I wold have to take a monkey Grip or a "Wield over sized weapon" feat as for class skills the mechanics I have set up look good?
ErodirTheSwift 05-01-08, 03:17 PM	So feat wise I would have to take a monkey Grip or a "Wield over sized weapon" feat as for class skills the mechanics I have set up look good? Sorry about the double post
Maglisis 05-01-08, 05:09 PM	I would think this to be more of a 'min-max' question.. sorry, but wielding 2 2hd weapons would have to be in the epic range of levels if anything, not around 10 or 15. Not to mention even if you are playing any normal kind of race they would have no chance in being able to attack with a weapon of this size without massive armor restrictions and possibly a low max-dex due to the fact it would be very difficult to block wielding weapons of this size if your character is under 8-9ft tall. Just throwing things out there to consider..
Jay_Ibero_911 05-01-08, 06:32 PM	I would think this to be more of a 'min-max' question.. sorry, but wielding 2 2hd weapons would have to be in the epic range of levels if anything, not around 10 or 15. Not to mention even if you are playing any normal kind of race they would have no chance in being able to attack with a weapon of this size without massive armor restrictions and possibly a low max-dex due to the fact it would be very difficult to block wielding weapons of this size if your character is under 8-9ft tall. Just throwing things out there to consider.. Well with just Monkey Grip and oversized TWF you can wield a large sized longsword in one hand and a medium longsword in your off-hand with only a -4 penalty to hit with your main hand and -2 with your off hand...
ToastedAmphibian 05-01-08, 06:50 PM	The main diffrence between using a large 1 handed weapon one handed, and a mediunm 2-handed weapon one handed? Reach weapons.
ErodirTheSwift 05-02-08, 03:31 PM	Before I let this drop into the depths just let me say thanks for all the help and if anyone has anything else they wish to say about this topic please don't hesitate. I think i fixed my problem and will hopefully make it better once 4E comes out