What Hide does/does not do [Archive] - Wizards Community

What Hide does/does not do [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kkbkbl
12-25-07, 01:34 PM From the Rogue Sneak Attack FAQs, Apparently there are only 2 ways in to qualify for sneak attack.

1. Flanking
2. Opponent is flatfooted or otherwise denied his dex bonus to AC

2. Can come in many forms such as: Helpless Opponent, Flatfooted Opponent Opponent has total concealment etc...

The point of this thread is to clarify what hide does in this case, for me.
Does it provide "total concealment?" Is said concealment broken when the attacker attacks?
Voletta
12-26-07, 03:13 AM You are Invisible (as the state/condition, not the spell), visually undetectable, and all that it implies. (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#invisible)
kkbkbl
12-26-07, 04:01 AM You are Invisible (as the state/condition, not the spell), visually undetectable, and all that it implies. (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#invisible)

Are you still invisible, when you attack?
CryoSilver
12-26-07, 04:27 AM Going by the rules for surprise rounds and such, your opponent remains flat-footed against your attacks until his initiative count comes up.
kkbkbl
12-26-07, 04:29 AM Going by the rules for surprise rounds and such, your opponent remains flat-footed against your attacks until his initiative count comes up.

Assume that both opponents are already aware of each other, just that
the rogue attempts to hide in combat
CryoSilver
12-26-07, 04:36 AM The rogue must:
1: Use Bluff to generate a diversion
2: move to a location that grants him cover or concealment

If he is being observed "even casually" he cannot hide. Therefore, after a single attack, he is no longer "hiding"
kkbkbl
12-26-07, 04:58 AM The rogue must:
1: Use Bluff to generate a diversion
2: move to a location that grants him cover or concealment

If he is being observed "even casually" he cannot hide. Therefore, after a single attack, he is no longer "hiding"

That is to say, once the opponents are aware of the rogue, he cannot hide unless he runs behind an obstacle which provides total cover, or creates a diversion and then move to a location that grants him cover or concealment?
Naderion
12-26-07, 06:14 AM Yes.

And even then with a great penalty. When there's just one great pile of crates in the room and everyone sees the rogue run behind it, it's really not that hard to figure out where he could be and that there will be someone waiting when you look behind it.
But since the enemy does not completely know at which distance and direction the rogue will be, when he passes the corner of the crates, there is a slight chance that a really good rogue might still surprise him with a stab the enemy doesn't expect.

I would say make a normal hide check but when someone knows where the hiding place it, he makes a spot check with a +10 bonus and if he succeeds, the rogue can't catch him unaware. It really comes down to spontaneous judgement of every single situation.

When you press yourself flat against a wall next to a door and you're standing in a shadow and someone rushes through the door hastely, there's a good chance he won't notice you. But once he sees you, you can't simply step back to your place at the wall and hope he doesn't see you anymore. (Except when you're a shadowdancer that is. :D)
CryoSilver
12-26-07, 01:40 PM You already take a -10 penalty to Hide when youuse Bluff to create the distraction; that's in the description of the skill.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kkbkbl 12-25-07, 01:34 PM	From the Rogue Sneak Attack FAQs, Apparently there are only 2 ways in to qualify for sneak attack. 1. Flanking 2. Opponent is flatfooted or otherwise denied his dex bonus to AC 2. Can come in many forms such as: Helpless Opponent, Flatfooted Opponent Opponent has total concealment etc... The point of this thread is to clarify what hide does in this case, for me. Does it provide "total concealment?" Is said concealment broken when the attacker attacks?
Voletta 12-26-07, 03:13 AM	You are Invisible (as the state/condition, not the spell), visually undetectable, and all that it implies. (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#invisible)
kkbkbl 12-26-07, 04:01 AM	You are Invisible (as the state/condition, not the spell), visually undetectable, and all that it implies. (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#invisible) Are you still invisible, when you attack?
CryoSilver 12-26-07, 04:27 AM	Going by the rules for surprise rounds and such, your opponent remains flat-footed against your attacks until his initiative count comes up.
kkbkbl 12-26-07, 04:29 AM	Going by the rules for surprise rounds and such, your opponent remains flat-footed against your attacks until his initiative count comes up. Assume that both opponents are already aware of each other, just that the rogue attempts to hide in combat
CryoSilver 12-26-07, 04:36 AM	The rogue must: 1: Use Bluff to generate a diversion 2: move to a location that grants him cover or concealment If he is being observed "even casually" he cannot hide. Therefore, after a single attack, he is no longer "hiding"
kkbkbl 12-26-07, 04:58 AM	The rogue must: 1: Use Bluff to generate a diversion 2: move to a location that grants him cover or concealment If he is being observed "even casually" he cannot hide. Therefore, after a single attack, he is no longer "hiding" That is to say, once the opponents are aware of the rogue, he cannot hide unless he runs behind an obstacle which provides total cover, or creates a diversion and then move to a location that grants him cover or concealment?
Naderion 12-26-07, 06:14 AM	Yes. And even then with a great penalty. When there's just one great pile of crates in the room and everyone sees the rogue run behind it, it's really not that hard to figure out where he could be and that there will be someone waiting when you look behind it. But since the enemy does not completely know at which distance and direction the rogue will be, when he passes the corner of the crates, there is a slight chance that a really good rogue might still surprise him with a stab the enemy doesn't expect. I would say make a normal hide check but when someone knows where the hiding place it, he makes a spot check with a +10 bonus and if he succeeds, the rogue can't catch him unaware. It really comes down to spontaneous judgement of every single situation. When you press yourself flat against a wall next to a door and you're standing in a shadow and someone rushes through the door hastely, there's a good chance he won't notice you. But once he sees you, you can't simply step back to your place at the wall and hope he doesn't see you anymore. (Except when you're a shadowdancer that is. :D)
CryoSilver 12-26-07, 01:40 PM	You already take a -10 penalty to Hide when youuse Bluff to create the distraction; that's in the description of the skill.