Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FrostHammer 09-22-07, 04:19 AM	I know I'm going to want Jump. Assume I have 3 skill points. What else is good for a fighter? Is any Craft skill useful at all?
dman11235 09-22-07, 04:51 AM	Tumble is always a useful skill to have. And jump synergizes, slightly fsetting the cc-ness of it. If I have any left over, I usually go with a craft, but survival is a good one. Spellcraft can be useful for you, knowing what things are being cast, same with psicraft for manifesting. Also gets you mage slayer. Climb if you can't fly. Balance is useful. Heal, sense motive, spot, and listen are always useful. You can make a case for most, if not all of them. Knowledge probably is a no-go. If you want (or your charisma is not bad) use magic device. And get a masterwork tool for it, and any skill you want. 50 gp for +2? I'm there!
Merestil Haye 09-22-07, 06:29 AM	The problem here is that the Fighter class skill list is probably the second worst in the game - certainly in the bottom five. Here's the list. Climb Craft Handle Animal Intimidate Jump Ride SwimExciting, eh? I wouldn't take Craft - it will take forever to make anything unless you devote not only skill points but also other resources to raising the skill modifier. If you are taking Jump, consider Climb or Swim (since you obviously anticipate moving around a lot with some odd restrictions). Does another skill fit your concept? Probably not, given that you're asking for ideas... So you're either going to have to take fighter skills, bite the bullet and take some cross-class skills or swallow the bitter pill of multiclassing. You said you would have three skill points. I'm assuming that means 3 per level? If so, and you are human, do you have access to Races of Destiny? If so, the feat Able Learner will mitigate the pain of taking cross-class skills by reducing the cost. Tumble will be useless unless you plan to forswear anything other than light armour. Unless you're a Dwarf fighter of course, in which case you can tumble in anything short of mountain plate. A hardy adventurer can always justify a few ranks in Spot and Listen - it might make the difference between one sneak attack and many. Even at higher levels, it can provide some assistance. Range the wilderness a lot? Take some ranks in Survival. Magnetic personality? Use Magic Device can provide a chance of using those spare wands the party picks up. You need a +19 modifier for absolute certainty of success, and that's a looooong way off without some other resources invested in it. (Skill Focus (UMD) for example). But if it suits the concept go for it. Is the Tome of Battle in use? Martial Lore might be worth a few skill points, especially if you invest in Martial Study and Martial Stance feats. The best source of inspiration is the skill list and your character idea.
Horatio Hornblower 09-22-07, 10:35 AM	If the campaign is more wilderness travel than dungeons then you might want your fighter to be the cavalry. Max out handle animal and ride. Spread points around in jump, climb and swim. Don't forget to pick feats from the mounted combat group.
Zousha_Omenohu 09-22-07, 10:46 AM	This is probably terrible advice, but I always feel paranoid about not having Knowledge (history), since I never want to be ignorant of the rich history of whatever campaign setting we're in. If I had more skill points I'd invest in all of them, simply because I like to know whatever there is to know about the campaign world.
Orenmir 09-22-07, 11:30 AM	Max out Intimidate and then check out the Duel of Wills description in ToB. It will be the one skill you use for every battle. And since Fighters just rarely use skills, you'll notice you'll start using this one the most.
Rulebook 09-22-07, 11:57 AM	or throw out the Tome of Cheese, and set yourself to some climb, swim, and jump. especially climb and swim. given the fighter's penchant for heavier armors having big scores in these will help tremendously. unless you're playing in a superman stat situation, intimidate is best left to the high-charisma types. craft skills are useful if you're in a low-treasure game. i made a bunch of silver on some jewelery crafting in my downtimes which kept us in rations and lodging before. at least 1 point in ride is a must. more if you plan to actually -be- mounted. ive yet to find a really good use for handle animal unless you like to keep trained dogs around (which is INCREDIBLY useful at lower levels)
FrostHammer 09-22-07, 12:40 PM	Well here's the thing, I'll be a Barbarian fro the first 2 levels, and then going straight Fighter for many levels (at least 4 or 6 more), so my max ranks will be good for quite a few useful skills I think, but I won't enough skill points to max them out. Oh, and my stats are 18 str 10 dex 16 con 10 int 10 wis 8 cha
Merestil Haye 09-22-07, 01:05 PM	Then I reiterate : Able Learner (you are human, yes?) will be a godsend for you. it will enable you to keep up with cross-class skills a lot easier, whatever you choose to keep up with.
Orenmir 09-22-07, 01:30 PM	or throw out the Tome of Cheese, and set yourself to some climb, swim, and jump. especially climb and swim. given the fighter's penchant for heavier armors having big scores in these will help tremendously. unless you're playing in a superman stat situation, intimidate is best left to the high-charisma types. craft skills are useful if you're in a low-treasure game. i made a bunch of silver on some jewelery crafting in my downtimes which kept us in rations and lodging before. at least 1 point in ride is a must. more if you plan to actually -be- mounted. ive yet to find a really good use for handle animal unless you like to keep trained dogs around (which is INCREDIBLY useful at lower levels) Do you even know what a Duel of Wills is? Trust me; look it up -- then you'll say: "Oh yeah, Intimidate is a good skill to have as a Fighter." How often does anyone use Craft? It takes months to make anything. Jump and Climb are handy when their needed. But, trust me, you will initiate a Duel of Wills before EVERY BATTLE if your Intimidate skill is maxed out. +1 to attack your dueler and he gets -1 to attack you. It's the most useful offensive battle skill in the books.
redarius 09-22-07, 01:35 PM	I'm with the folks saying take athletic skills. Your stats support them better, and you'll be able to do some impressive stuff while still wearing armor and dealing with check penalties. If that's just not for you, x-class into spot and listen, or tweak your concept enough to allow for a first level as a rogue, followed by fighter levels. It's approaching cheese, but fighter/rogue is a great mix. If you're human and your DM allows Races of Destiny, Able Learner is the best feat investment you can make. You can max x-class skills then focus on others as you advance. Consider survival and search, which would expand your utility greatly. You could assist the scout/ranger/rogue type character once you get decent ranks, and that extra bit is often helpful. Since you get fighter bonus feats so frequently, you're free to mix up your general feats however you'd like so if you wanted to focus on skills, you can do that with them.
Ecalsneerg 09-22-07, 01:38 PM	or throw out the Tome of Cheese, and set yourself to some climb, swim, and jump. especially climb and swim. given the fighter's penchant for heavier armors having big scores in these will help tremendously. Firstly, why do you call it Tome of Cheese? Yeah, I'd agree, it is a little, to use a bad choice of words, 'anime', but it does give options to fighters. I would give a Fighter intimidate. It does give you options in a social situation. It is the actual skill advantage Barbarians and Fighters have over skill-monkey Rangers, in that they do have a social skill they can use without cross-classing.
FrostHammer 09-22-07, 02:46 PM	My character's concept doesn't really support intimidate. She *looks* completely harmless. I am also not able to have access to Able Leaner.
Mojo_Rat 09-22-07, 04:37 PM	I always try to have my fighters good at the Athletic skills. Climb Jump Swim. They are applicable in just about every possible adventuring situation. Ive seen several people talk downa bout Craft but the thing is one of the big complaints people have about fighters is their lack of things to do outsie of Combat. IT is honestly fun to know the MW sword shield etc that your character is wearing is all his/her own but this is really a character theme thing.
StevenO 09-22-07, 11:11 PM	A fighter should have whatever skills are needed to get him into the Prestige Class he is interested in. After that you may just as well forget about them. Realistically you could keep a few skills maxed out but most of the physical ones will get hit by your ACP. Taking even a few cross-class ranks in some key skills could give you an advantage over an untrained opponent even if they don't work well against a maxed out character. Mechanically you'd probably get the most use from Ride (for Mounted Combat only), Intimidate (to demoralize your opponent), and possibly Jump (for the Leap Attack feat.)
The_Unseen_Illusion 09-22-07, 11:23 PM	...The problem here is that the Fighter class skill list is probably the second worst in the game... I thought the fighter DID have the worst skill selection in the game?
FrostHammer 09-23-07, 01:16 AM	A fighter should have whatever skills are needed to get him into the Prestige Class he is interested in. After that you may just as well forget about them. Realistically you could keep a few skills maxed out but most of the physical ones will get hit by your ACP. Taking even a few cross-class ranks in some key skills could give you an advantage over an untrained opponent even if they don't work well against a maxed out character. Mechanically you'd probably get the most use from Ride (for Mounted Combat only), Intimidate (to demoralize your opponent), and possibly Jump (for the Leap Attack feat.) Jump will always be maxed for the Leap Attack feat. I'm not sure I'll have a ACP, since my character may not even wear armor (a shock, I'm sure) or maybe just Studded Leather for a minimal ACP. See, since I'll be using Shock Trooper a lot anyways, I'm not sure I care about AC. I may very well depend on spells such as Displacement to protect me.
1 ton ghost 09-23-07, 02:58 AM	-plan ahead...cannot stress this enough. don't just wing it. if there's a vision/character concept in your mind that fits a PrC, shoot for that. like in chess, think 3 moves ahead -you can swap out Ride for Tumble in Unearthed Arcana to capitalize on flanking...which should encourage you to Power Attack or take larger combat risks -use common sense; look at your friends' classes and realize which skills for them are class and cross-class. not too many mages climbing the matterhorn, you know? consider points others neglect as it may spotlight you or save your life -look at feats you have/want. some prereq's, easy enough. you could shoot for flavor and just follow creative vision. though chaotic, it can be immensely rewarding rather than going, "well, i'm probably gonna' need a horse, so Ride..." this will drive plot hooks and storyline more effectively though you might feel your selling yourself short. ex)my g/f's Cleric of Jergal took some ranks in Profession-Scribe cuz' these gothy bookwork priests are major scriveners...and Cleric skills are low, like 2+Int. as it turned out, it was sound thinking and opened alot of doors. feel like you're burning ranks on Craft? a few lvl's down the road you could forge something like Stormbringer. especially w/ all the new weapon mods in the 2nd to last Dragon (highly recommend btw), you're avg. smithy can't make a MW serrated longsword w/ increased hardness, but w/ enough lvls, cash, and time, you can...
FrostHammer 09-23-07, 03:58 AM	Here's the thing, I'm not realyl sure what PRC I want to go into. I know not Frenzied Berserker. Maybe I'll just go back to Barbarian after 4 levels of fighter.
Rulebook 09-23-07, 04:37 AM	i love the Holy Liberator class. we had a Barbarian/Holy Liberator charger in a competition recently and he provided quite a huge boost to our combat needs (especially once we got the MIC and SC) giving a barbarian the paladin spell list... pure gold!
dman11235 09-23-07, 04:46 AM	Bear Warrior. It's awesome. Prereqs aren't bad either. The problem is that it's unarmed combat. Levels in Fist of the Forest mitigate this by being unarmed. In fact, your AC will go UP when you rage. And bear warrior lets you take levels in War Shaper. Bonus to con and strength, reach, immunity to crits, fast healing, and larger natural weapons. Make sure to grab an amulet of natural attacks (SS) or mighty fists (DMG), if your DM doesn't let you take the natural one.
Merestil Haye 09-23-07, 10:05 AM	I thought the fighter DID have the worst skill selection in the game?Nope. :) The Warrior's class skill list is worse than the Fighters. (It doesn't have Craft). Yes, it's an NPC class. So? The other four NPC classes have better skill lists than the Fighter. All of them. The Commoner? The Commoner trades away Intimidate as a class skill in return for Listen, Profession, Spot and Use Rope. 10 skills instead of 7 mean that the Commoner's list is much better than the Fighters. And the quality of two of the gains is high.
Bob Loblaw 09-23-07, 10:42 AM	I'd look at what I want my fighter to be able to do first. I would then only put enough ranks in the skills that have static DCs to accomplish those checks by Taking 10. You'll find that many times you only need a rank or two to pull that off. Since you want to be unarmored, I would swap out Ride for Tumble. Someone mentioned Unearthed Arcana but it's from the Cityscape web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a). There's no love specifically for fighters in there, but there is a section on skills. I would also consider putting 5 ranks into Tumble no matter what so you can get the +2 bonus to Jump checks. Look at Skill Tricks as well. For the low cost of 2 skill points, you may be able to get another option usable once per encounter like Extreme Leap and Nimble Charge.
FrostHammer 09-23-07, 01:08 PM	Don't have acces to citiscape or complete scoundrel, unfortunately :( I'm not sure about unarmored yet, but definitely at the most *lightly* armored, like a Chain Shirt or a mithril version. See, I'm already losing Fast Movement by taking the Lion's Totem. I can't afford to be slowed down by armor.
Bob Loblaw 09-23-07, 03:39 PM	Will the DM allow the web enhancement for Cityscape? If so, use the link I provided earlier. You could also consider taking a feat that would make Tumble a class skill for you. If you are human, one level of human paragon will allow you to treat any one skill as a class skill at all times.
Vharuck 09-23-07, 04:00 PM	While not mechanically strong, Craft is wonderful for fleshing out the personality of your character. Craft (writing) could allow your character to record his adventures, and Craft (gemcutting) could influence your character to prefer precious stones over coins from loot. However, Craft can be beneficial. Craft (trapmaking) not only has its uses but opens up a whole new area of expertise for your otherwise beat-stick character. Non-combat situations can be more enjoyable. Craft (alchemy) also allows you to constantly have useful tools for combat and non-combat situations. Tanglefoot bags alone are worth it.
Bob Loblaw 09-23-07, 04:05 PM	Also remember that if your character is multiclassed, then any skill that ever was a class skill still is. So even when you're taking Fighter levels, you can spend skill points to get ranks in Listen and Survival on a one-to-one basis just like a Barbarian, with the same maximum rank limit of 3 + character level. Skills retain the cross-class purchase penalty but are no longer limited to cross class ranks. So the fighter would have to spend 2 points for one ranks in Listen but can have his character level +3 maximum ranks.
Vharuck 09-23-07, 08:56 PM	Skills retain the cross-class purchase penalty but are no longer limited to cross class ranks. So the fighter would have to spend 2 points for one ranks in Listen but can have his character level +3 maximum ranks. You're right. Whoops.