Whats your view on Vow of poverty feat? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Whats your view on Vow of poverty feat? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
snakebliskan
03-10-07, 05:14 PM Is it a worth while feat?.... Im thinking about making an 8th lvl monk with this feat.. is it worth taking?
bigbbodp
03-10-07, 05:33 PM yes it's a great feat if you want to play your monk with no magic stuff like BoA
DarkRhystar
03-10-07, 05:40 PM Is it a worth while feat?.... Im thinking about making an 8th lvl monk with this feat.. is it worth taking?

Depends on the campaign.

Vow of Poverty can be really good, really bad, or somewhere in the middle depending on the wealth level.

If your DM hands out a lot of stuff, Vow of Poverty is going to be weak.

If your DM hands out almost nothing, Vow of Poverty is going to be crazy good.

If your DM follows the Wealth-By-Level guidelines, Vow of Poverty is going to be on par... good sometimes, bad other times.
Hsien
03-10-07, 05:55 PM I agree, it depends on the wealth level of the world. Plus you have to keep in mind that it is an exalted feat, and if done correctly would be enforced by the DM. Unlike, lets sat Spring Attack feat which is just something you can do, the Exalted feats represent what you are and what you are about.

The mechanical aspect looks at wealth and is easier to compare.

Role-Playing VoP, only you and DM can determine if your capable of handling. This can be much harder to figure and is often glossed over, imo.
Gagnrath
03-10-07, 09:18 PM For druids and rangers and especially monks, Vow of poverty is powerful. It is mediocre for clerics and barbarians weak for fighters and bards and useless for arcane casters.
runestar
03-10-07, 09:44 PM It is not so much the mechanical aspect I am worried about, but rather, but ably you are able to handle the RP aspect of the feat.

Its strong in the hands of a soulknife, monk or druid, but still not that game breaking.
Kolsus_Hayl
03-10-07, 11:57 PM Take it! Take it however you can! It's a really fun, even radical character premise that actually works with traditional DnD flavor.
On top of that, the Vow of Poverty is just made for a monk. Inuitive Attack, an exalted feat helps the monk immensly. Getting Holy Ki Strike is great (There is an error in the prereq., substitute 'Ki Strike, Holy' for 'Ki Strike, Lawful'). +2d6 vs. bad guys! Nymph's Kiss is great if you can swing it with your DM. How about Touch of Golden Ice? I know the DC is low, but hopefully your flurry of blows will be causing a lot of saves.
Only a human (or a strongheart halfling) gets the full benefit from the Vow because they can take it at first level and get that first bonus exalted feat.
StruckingFuggle
03-11-07, 12:04 AM If your DM follows the Wealth-By-Level guidelines, Vow of Poverty is going to be on par... good sometimes, bad other times.

I don't think it would ever be on par, because you sacrifice so much versatility.
DarkRhystar
03-11-07, 05:01 AM I don't think it would ever be on par, because you sacrifice so much versatility.

Fair enough. :)
angryman
03-11-07, 05:06 AM For druids and rangers and especially monks, Vow of poverty is powerful. It is mediocre for clerics and barbarians weak for fighters and bards and useless for arcane casters.

Why useless for arcane casters? Unless you're talking about material components, then VoP is excellent for casters since it makes them less reliant on equipment, although it's unlikely a wizard would be able to pull it off. You could always use an alternative spellbook such as tattooes to get around spending actual money. (These tattooes are worth X gold, but I didn't pay for them, per se)
archerpwr
03-11-07, 10:05 PM I dont know how VoP can be even decent with rangers (no decent bow or sword), but it is great with sorcorers (no need for equipment and can make that dc 50 diplo check easily with the bonuses from exalted feats)
Cyanide300
03-11-07, 11:45 PM If you take VoP as a monk, take Vow of Non-violence and Vow of Peace too. You get rediculous bonuses from them on top of the bonuses from VoP, including an ability that causes any manufactured weapon striking you to make a save or be destroyed. On top of that, non-lethal damage doesn't break either of the vows, and being a monk, you can deal non-lethal damage with no penalties. So basicly you can beat the hell out of anything you want while getting a rediculously high AC bonus, a ton of extra feats, a calming aura that stops you from even having to fight a lot of things, and the ability to shatter any weapon that hits you. There are very few items that are better than the abilities you get from the Vow of Poverty, Non-violence, and Peace. It's really easy to break a game playing a monk with those feats. Monks aren't dependant on items to begin with, and now you give up something you probably wouldn't have used much anyway in order to get rediculous abilities for free.
angryman
03-12-07, 04:37 AM :rolleyes: If you take VoP as a monk, take Vow of Non-violence and Vow of Peace too. You get rediculous bonuses from them on top of the bonuses from VoP, including an ability that causes any manufactured weapon striking you to make a save or be destroyed. On top of that, non-lethal damage doesn't break either of the vows, and being a monk, you can deal non-lethal damage with no penalties. So basicly you can beat the hell out of anything you want while getting a rediculously high AC bonus, a ton of extra feats, a calming aura that stops you from even having to fight a lot of things, and the ability to shatter any weapon that hits you. There are very few items that are better than the abilities you get from the Vow of Poverty, Non-violence, and Peace. It's really easy to break a game playing a monk with those feats. Monks aren't dependant on items to begin with, and now you give up something you probably wouldn't have used much anyway in order to get rediculous abilities for free.

And all you have to do is constantly be nonviolent, peaceful and a paragon of pure goodness. :rolleyes:
tiluvias99
03-12-07, 06:28 PM Given a campaign that follows the Wealth-By-Level guidelines and will reach levels greater than 5:

The feat sucks. Tremendously. The bonuses recieved are nothing in comparison to the benefits of Magic items, and the penalties are extreme.
In all of my experience, people who take this feat are wanna-be power gamers, because it looks really, really damn cool and looks really, really damn powerful. However, note the emphasis on Wanna-Be. Real Power Gamers wouldn't touch this thing with a 20148602398570 foot pole. It sucks that badly.
It's only saving grace is that, when used with a Druid character, the druid is on Par with everyone else. Note though that being on par with everyone else is a serious power-cut for a druid though, as normally they would be demolishing everything. For every other class (including monks), taking the feat essentially turns a character into a blind, deaf, brain dead quadra-polegic (sp) in comparison to a character of equal level.

-------

In a low magic campaign or no-magic campaign though (or possibly one that will never get past level 4), the feat kicks ass.

-------

Also note that, if optimization doesn't matter to you, and you are more concerned with RPing, then go ahead. You'll make a fine and dandy character, and playing him will probably be lots of fun and really cool. Do your thing.
philnicau
03-12-07, 07:09 PM Is it a worth while feat?.... Im thinking about making an 8th lvl monk with this feat.. is it worth taking?

If you're taking VOP for the advantages it gives you, then don't bother, at higher levels its not that great.
But if you're taking it for the role-playing potential it allows then do it.
bloodtalon
03-12-07, 09:51 PM one person did take it once in a game i DMed and it caused alot of hassel. since the monk who had it donated all his share to his church he belonged to the other players hated him. they allways helped eachother money wise if someone needed to buy a magicla wepon or get more healing potions. the monk did niether and said his vow mandates him to donate all his share including the magic items he picked to the church.
nothing causes trouble like a monk giving a +2 flaming bust mace to a church free of charge when the cleric of the party needs it more

we allways did high roles went first when it came to picking magic
RainerNader
03-13-07, 12:30 AM I actually played 1st through 9th level with a Monk that had Vow of Poverty, and here's my take:

- Establish the role-playing and gaming guidelines off the bat. Just how does the party split treasure with your character? What happens if another character gives him a Potion of Cure Light Wounds? If you feel you're not on the same page with your DM at all, then don't bother, it won't be worth the hassle to constantly defend your exaltedness or lack thereof.

- Make sure you know what supplements you have access to, as that can make a big difference for your versatility. For example, I had my monk take Fiery Ki Strike at 2nd level and Ki Blast at 6th level. With Ki Blast as a ranged force attack, that gave my character a major boost to his versatility that normally plagues Vow of Poverty monks, or even regular monks.

- From an optimization perspectively, the main decision you'll have to make is Holy Ki Strike. Sounds like an awesome feat, except it requires a CHA of 15. CHA is traditionally a dump stat for monks, so that's a tough one.

- As everyone has said, your mileage will vary when it comes to the relative power level. However, if your DM is following wealth-by-level guidelines, then you'll be just as powerful if not more powerful until level 15 or so, unless the other players in your group are optimization experts.

- How long will you be playing this character? Because as I said, I played him all the way up till 9th level over a six month period and by the end, I was pretty much ready to move on to a less restrictive character, in terms of exaltedness and code of conduct. I had a lot of fun with him, but the Vow of Poverty can end up being a D&D straitjacket at times.
enygmatic_me
03-13-07, 01:06 AM I have a player currently that is a Monk with VoP. He is definitely doing well stat wise at the moment, but that is going to change. I run a rather high powered game and the VoP is going to leave him behind. I explained this to him before the campaign started, but it is what he wanted so I let him.

The group places 10% of a sessions monetary treasure haul into a group fund. Items are divvied as the group agrees is appropriate. This makes the "I donate my share" situation easier on him and the rest of the party as the communal funds are separated before everyone gets their share, as his share does not impact what is placed in the communal funds.

Now, a big problem I have already run into is needing to remind him of his exalted status and behavior. He is a good player, but sometimes gets caught up in the moment of the scene and gets a little over anxious for his "cinematic moment". An example of this, in the last session he almost coup de graced a healthy yet completely helpless opponent who hadn't even drawn a weapon before being paralyzed by the parties wizard. The warnings will stop eventually and I hope that he starts to remember these things for himself as I will take away his exalted status.

If exalted status is enforced like it is supposed to, and you DM doesn't believe in warnings and reminders, one little slip will make both slots (or more) used on those feats wasted slots. If you have any doubts about your ability to role-play the exalted status then this is not a risk worth taking. The same level and more of power can be gained through magic items and you can use those feat slots on other things.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
snakebliskan 03-10-07, 05:14 PM	Is it a worth while feat?.... Im thinking about making an 8th lvl monk with this feat.. is it worth taking?
bigbbodp 03-10-07, 05:33 PM	yes it's a great feat if you want to play your monk with no magic stuff like BoA
DarkRhystar 03-10-07, 05:40 PM	Is it a worth while feat?.... Im thinking about making an 8th lvl monk with this feat.. is it worth taking? Depends on the campaign. Vow of Poverty can be really good, really bad, or somewhere in the middle depending on the wealth level. If your DM hands out a lot of stuff, Vow of Poverty is going to be weak. If your DM hands out almost nothing, Vow of Poverty is going to be crazy good. If your DM follows the Wealth-By-Level guidelines, Vow of Poverty is going to be on par... good sometimes, bad other times.
Hsien 03-10-07, 05:55 PM	I agree, it depends on the wealth level of the world. Plus you have to keep in mind that it is an exalted feat, and if done correctly would be enforced by the DM. Unlike, lets sat Spring Attack feat which is just something you can do, the Exalted feats represent what you are and what you are about. The mechanical aspect looks at wealth and is easier to compare. Role-Playing VoP, only you and DM can determine if your capable of handling. This can be much harder to figure and is often glossed over, imo.
Gagnrath 03-10-07, 09:18 PM	For druids and rangers and especially monks, Vow of poverty is powerful. It is mediocre for clerics and barbarians weak for fighters and bards and useless for arcane casters.
runestar 03-10-07, 09:44 PM	It is not so much the mechanical aspect I am worried about, but rather, but ably you are able to handle the RP aspect of the feat. Its strong in the hands of a soulknife, monk or druid, but still not that game breaking.
Kolsus_Hayl 03-10-07, 11:57 PM	Take it! Take it however you can! It's a really fun, even radical character premise that actually works with traditional DnD flavor. On top of that, the Vow of Poverty is just made for a monk. Inuitive Attack, an exalted feat helps the monk immensly. Getting Holy Ki Strike is great (There is an error in the prereq., substitute 'Ki Strike, Holy' for 'Ki Strike, Lawful'). +2d6 vs. bad guys! Nymph's Kiss is great if you can swing it with your DM. How about Touch of Golden Ice? I know the DC is low, but hopefully your flurry of blows will be causing a lot of saves. Only a human (or a strongheart halfling) gets the full benefit from the Vow because they can take it at first level and get that first bonus exalted feat.
StruckingFuggle 03-11-07, 12:04 AM	If your DM follows the Wealth-By-Level guidelines, Vow of Poverty is going to be on par... good sometimes, bad other times. I don't think it would ever be on par, because you sacrifice so much versatility.
DarkRhystar 03-11-07, 05:01 AM	I don't think it would ever be on par, because you sacrifice so much versatility. Fair enough. :)
angryman 03-11-07, 05:06 AM	For druids and rangers and especially monks, Vow of poverty is powerful. It is mediocre for clerics and barbarians weak for fighters and bards and useless for arcane casters. Why useless for arcane casters? Unless you're talking about material components, then VoP is excellent for casters since it makes them less reliant on equipment, although it's unlikely a wizard would be able to pull it off. You could always use an alternative spellbook such as tattooes to get around spending actual money. (These tattooes are worth X gold, but I didn't pay for them, per se)
archerpwr 03-11-07, 10:05 PM	I dont know how VoP can be even decent with rangers (no decent bow or sword), but it is great with sorcorers (no need for equipment and can make that dc 50 diplo check easily with the bonuses from exalted feats)
Cyanide300 03-11-07, 11:45 PM	If you take VoP as a monk, take Vow of Non-violence and Vow of Peace too. You get rediculous bonuses from them on top of the bonuses from VoP, including an ability that causes any manufactured weapon striking you to make a save or be destroyed. On top of that, non-lethal damage doesn't break either of the vows, and being a monk, you can deal non-lethal damage with no penalties. So basicly you can beat the hell out of anything you want while getting a rediculously high AC bonus, a ton of extra feats, a calming aura that stops you from even having to fight a lot of things, and the ability to shatter any weapon that hits you. There are very few items that are better than the abilities you get from the Vow of Poverty, Non-violence, and Peace. It's really easy to break a game playing a monk with those feats. Monks aren't dependant on items to begin with, and now you give up something you probably wouldn't have used much anyway in order to get rediculous abilities for free.
angryman 03-12-07, 04:37 AM	:rolleyes: If you take VoP as a monk, take Vow of Non-violence and Vow of Peace too. You get rediculous bonuses from them on top of the bonuses from VoP, including an ability that causes any manufactured weapon striking you to make a save or be destroyed. On top of that, non-lethal damage doesn't break either of the vows, and being a monk, you can deal non-lethal damage with no penalties. So basicly you can beat the hell out of anything you want while getting a rediculously high AC bonus, a ton of extra feats, a calming aura that stops you from even having to fight a lot of things, and the ability to shatter any weapon that hits you. There are very few items that are better than the abilities you get from the Vow of Poverty, Non-violence, and Peace. It's really easy to break a game playing a monk with those feats. Monks aren't dependant on items to begin with, and now you give up something you probably wouldn't have used much anyway in order to get rediculous abilities for free. And all you have to do is constantly be nonviolent, peaceful and a paragon of pure goodness. :rolleyes:
tiluvias99 03-12-07, 06:28 PM	Given a campaign that follows the Wealth-By-Level guidelines and will reach levels greater than 5: The feat sucks. Tremendously. The bonuses recieved are nothing in comparison to the benefits of Magic items, and the penalties are extreme. In all of my experience, people who take this feat are wanna-be power gamers, because it looks really, really damn cool and looks really, really damn powerful. However, note the emphasis on Wanna-Be. Real Power Gamers wouldn't touch this thing with a 20148602398570 foot pole. It sucks that badly. It's only saving grace is that, when used with a Druid character, the druid is on Par with everyone else. Note though that being on par with everyone else is a serious power-cut for a druid though, as normally they would be demolishing everything. For every other class (including monks), taking the feat essentially turns a character into a blind, deaf, brain dead quadra-polegic (sp) in comparison to a character of equal level. ------- In a low magic campaign or no-magic campaign though (or possibly one that will never get past level 4), the feat kicks ass. ------- Also note that, if optimization doesn't matter to you, and you are more concerned with RPing, then go ahead. You'll make a fine and dandy character, and playing him will probably be lots of fun and really cool. Do your thing.
philnicau 03-12-07, 07:09 PM	Is it a worth while feat?.... Im thinking about making an 8th lvl monk with this feat.. is it worth taking? If you're taking VOP for the advantages it gives you, then don't bother, at higher levels its not that great. But if you're taking it for the role-playing potential it allows then do it.
bloodtalon 03-12-07, 09:51 PM	one person did take it once in a game i DMed and it caused alot of hassel. since the monk who had it donated all his share to his church he belonged to the other players hated him. they allways helped eachother money wise if someone needed to buy a magicla wepon or get more healing potions. the monk did niether and said his vow mandates him to donate all his share including the magic items he picked to the church. nothing causes trouble like a monk giving a +2 flaming bust mace to a church free of charge when the cleric of the party needs it more we allways did high roles went first when it came to picking magic
RainerNader 03-13-07, 12:30 AM	I actually played 1st through 9th level with a Monk that had Vow of Poverty, and here's my take: - Establish the role-playing and gaming guidelines off the bat. Just how does the party split treasure with your character? What happens if another character gives him a Potion of Cure Light Wounds? If you feel you're not on the same page with your DM at all, then don't bother, it won't be worth the hassle to constantly defend your exaltedness or lack thereof. - Make sure you know what supplements you have access to, as that can make a big difference for your versatility. For example, I had my monk take Fiery Ki Strike at 2nd level and Ki Blast at 6th level. With Ki Blast as a ranged force attack, that gave my character a major boost to his versatility that normally plagues Vow of Poverty monks, or even regular monks. - From an optimization perspectively, the main decision you'll have to make is Holy Ki Strike. Sounds like an awesome feat, except it requires a CHA of 15. CHA is traditionally a dump stat for monks, so that's a tough one. - As everyone has said, your mileage will vary when it comes to the relative power level. However, if your DM is following wealth-by-level guidelines, then you'll be just as powerful if not more powerful until level 15 or so, unless the other players in your group are optimization experts. - How long will you be playing this character? Because as I said, I played him all the way up till 9th level over a six month period and by the end, I was pretty much ready to move on to a less restrictive character, in terms of exaltedness and code of conduct. I had a lot of fun with him, but the Vow of Poverty can end up being a D&D straitjacket at times.
enygmatic_me 03-13-07, 01:06 AM	I have a player currently that is a Monk with VoP. He is definitely doing well stat wise at the moment, but that is going to change. I run a rather high powered game and the VoP is going to leave him behind. I explained this to him before the campaign started, but it is what he wanted so I let him. The group places 10% of a sessions monetary treasure haul into a group fund. Items are divvied as the group agrees is appropriate. This makes the "I donate my share" situation easier on him and the rest of the party as the communal funds are separated before everyone gets their share, as his share does not impact what is placed in the communal funds. Now, a big problem I have already run into is needing to remind him of his exalted status and behavior. He is a good player, but sometimes gets caught up in the moment of the scene and gets a little over anxious for his "cinematic moment". An example of this, in the last session he almost coup de graced a healthy yet completely helpless opponent who hadn't even drawn a weapon before being paralyzed by the parties wizard. The warnings will stop eventually and I hope that he starts to remember these things for himself as I will take away his exalted status. If exalted status is enforced like it is supposed to, and you DM doesn't believe in warnings and reminders, one little slip will make both slots (or more) used on those feats wasted slots. If you have any doubts about your ability to role-play the exalted status then this is not a risk worth taking. The same level and more of power can be gained through magic items and you can use those feat slots on other things.