When does Weapon Finesse become a must? [Archive] - Wizards Community

When does Weapon Finesse become a must? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ereanor
02-23-07, 03:54 PM If I'm a bard with a 10 strength and 14 dexterity is it worth taking the Weapon Finesse feat? It will basically give me a +2 to attack rolls. Is there sort of a "general rule" as to when Weapon Finesse makes a difference to use a feat slot on, for example a +4 difference between strength modifier and dex modifier? I plan on being in some melee combat so can I get by with Inspire Courage and maybe Arcane Strike?
lastknightleft
02-23-07, 04:04 PM considering that weapon focus provides only a +1 bonus to attacks it makes sense that as long as you're beating that +1 its an acceptable feat
Thomar_of_Uointer
02-23-07, 04:08 PM If I'm a bard with a 10 strength and 14 dexterity is it worth taking the Weapon Finesse feat? It will basically give me a +2 to attack rolls. Is there sort of a "general rule" as to when Weapon Finesse makes a difference to use a feat slot on, for example a +4 difference between strength modifier and dex modifier? I plan on being in some melee combat so can I get by with Inspire Courage and maybe Arcane Strike?

Compare it to Weapon Focus, but also compare it to other feats you could be taking. If you plan on jumping into fights, it's great, but if you really want some metamagic to go along with your spells and aren't planning on getting within ten feet of a hostile character with a big sword, go with that.
Loki5654
02-23-07, 04:09 PM If your DEX modifier is higher than your STR modifier and you find yourself using Finesse-able weapons a lot (light weapons, rapier, whip, or spiked chain) then its a good idea to take Weapon Finesse.
itwasntme
02-23-07, 04:16 PM Weapon Finesse only lets you add your Dex on to Hit your Str is there on damage still

its not a must but its something

Weapon Focus should only be taken if your going to get the stronger Versions of Weapon Focus and go down that Path with your feats

which i suggest your Bard dosnt do

i would rather give him a Bow tho and not be in melee but if your going to be in melee then take Weapon Finesse so you can hit thouse suckers earlyer on in the game
Ereanor
02-23-07, 04:35 PM Right now I currently have
Improved Initiative (Human bonus)
1. Spell Focus: Enchantment
3. Versatile Performer
6. Leadership

I'm a human 8th level bard. Str 10 and Dex 14

I planned on taking Greater Skill Focus: Enchantment(9th) and Enchanting Song from Races of Stone(At 10th)and my little niche would be to enchant whenever possible. but in some odd turn of events we have lost a couple of melee characters and could use the aid of an additional melee fighter. Now I know bards shouldn't really focus on melee fighting and I've been building him around being an enchanting/buffer type but I think I'm most ablest to back up our Paladin in melee until either we get another player or I get another cohort. I was considering to add Weapon Finesse at 9th and Arcane Strike at 12th and then worry about adding the "Enchantment" feats later on if I make it that far.
Thiez
02-23-07, 04:46 PM I really think you'd better focus on enchantment (maybe take heighten spell?) and start charming/dominating your opponents, instead of trying to become a fighter.
Willie the Duck
02-23-07, 06:03 PM From what you've told us, no. Don't take the feat. Weapon finesses is a no brainer feat: the people who should take it use it every day. Melee rogues or scouts? Sure. TWF dex based rangers or fighters? Yep. Rapier based prestige or base classes? yep. Characters that have high dex but no strength and want it "just in case" they get into melee? no. There are too many ways to get out of melee (and finese doesn't help vs. grapple, the normal "oh no I'm stuck in melee" situation), and too many ways to contribute other than being a poor substitute for the tank.

If the party tanks go down, you should keep singing, buffing, and enchanting the enemy. Grab a bag of tricks and keep lobbing speed bump animals at the bad guys (some of those speed bumbs can be pretty fierce). With your buffs on them, they'll hold the day until the rest of the party can turn the situation around. Your character is a spellcasting build. It best contributes to the party by being an even better spellcaster.
Tuah
02-23-07, 06:15 PM I'd suggest getting it, and improving your Dexterity as much as possible. That way you'll get more AC too! :D
runestar
02-23-07, 09:44 PM I have heard of a controversial tactic where a fighter takes weapon finesse even though his str is higher than his dex, rationale being that if his str ever gets reduced to below his dex, he at least has his dex score to act as a buffer zone to prevent his to-hit roll from being depleted too much.:)
Willie the Duck
02-25-07, 12:03 AM If his strength is higher than his dex, why would he be fighting with a finesseable weapon?
darth_borehd
02-25-07, 12:11 AM Don't take it. You character doesn't sound like a melee fighter. Instead, get a missile weapon and take missile attack feats. If you get into a melee fight, use total defense until help arrives or run.
runestar
02-25-07, 12:23 AM If his strength is higher than his dex, why would he be fighting with a finesseable weapon?
Spiked chains are finessable...:)
Of course, that assumes you do with a str-based build rather than a dex build(which might be better due to dex synergy with combat reflexes/robilar's gambit).:)
Garonak
02-25-07, 02:18 PM Think I read somewhere that the rule of thumb for that feat is that if you have 2 more in dex modifier than in str you should consider it. But for your bard... I wouldn't take. Stick with a bow. Just learn exp. retreat (or have a magic item with it on) and stay away from melee.

But then again I've only played a bard one time in my life and he lasted for 30 minutes real time (which is not the record in that group) *grumble* bloody druids and their 'Hey, I have dex, let me make the knot before we lower you 100ft down'
Ereanor
02-25-07, 03:44 PM Thanks for all the responses. I'm not going to take Weapon Finesse. I think I will take Captivating Melody instead. I really want to boost my enchanting DC so this will help along with Skill Focus, Greater Skill Focus, and Heighten Spell. I know Sublime Chord would probably be the way to go but I really want to stay in the bard core class for the duration of this character. Thanks for all the help it was extremely helpful as usual.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ereanor 02-23-07, 03:54 PM	If I'm a bard with a 10 strength and 14 dexterity is it worth taking the Weapon Finesse feat? It will basically give me a +2 to attack rolls. Is there sort of a "general rule" as to when Weapon Finesse makes a difference to use a feat slot on, for example a +4 difference between strength modifier and dex modifier? I plan on being in some melee combat so can I get by with Inspire Courage and maybe Arcane Strike?
lastknightleft 02-23-07, 04:04 PM	considering that weapon focus provides only a +1 bonus to attacks it makes sense that as long as you're beating that +1 its an acceptable feat
Thomar_of_Uointer 02-23-07, 04:08 PM	If I'm a bard with a 10 strength and 14 dexterity is it worth taking the Weapon Finesse feat? It will basically give me a +2 to attack rolls. Is there sort of a "general rule" as to when Weapon Finesse makes a difference to use a feat slot on, for example a +4 difference between strength modifier and dex modifier? I plan on being in some melee combat so can I get by with Inspire Courage and maybe Arcane Strike? Compare it to Weapon Focus, but also compare it to other feats you could be taking. If you plan on jumping into fights, it's great, but if you really want some metamagic to go along with your spells and aren't planning on getting within ten feet of a hostile character with a big sword, go with that.
Loki5654 02-23-07, 04:09 PM	If your DEX modifier is higher than your STR modifier and you find yourself using Finesse-able weapons a lot (light weapons, rapier, whip, or spiked chain) then its a good idea to take Weapon Finesse.
itwasntme 02-23-07, 04:16 PM	Weapon Finesse only lets you add your Dex on to Hit your Str is there on damage still its not a must but its something Weapon Focus should only be taken if your going to get the stronger Versions of Weapon Focus and go down that Path with your feats which i suggest your Bard dosnt do i would rather give him a Bow tho and not be in melee but if your going to be in melee then take Weapon Finesse so you can hit thouse suckers earlyer on in the game
Ereanor 02-23-07, 04:35 PM	Right now I currently have Improved Initiative (Human bonus) 1. Spell Focus: Enchantment 3. Versatile Performer 6. Leadership I'm a human 8th level bard. Str 10 and Dex 14 I planned on taking Greater Skill Focus: Enchantment(9th) and Enchanting Song from Races of Stone(At 10th)and my little niche would be to enchant whenever possible. but in some odd turn of events we have lost a couple of melee characters and could use the aid of an additional melee fighter. Now I know bards shouldn't really focus on melee fighting and I've been building him around being an enchanting/buffer type but I think I'm most ablest to back up our Paladin in melee until either we get another player or I get another cohort. I was considering to add Weapon Finesse at 9th and Arcane Strike at 12th and then worry about adding the "Enchantment" feats later on if I make it that far.
Thiez 02-23-07, 04:46 PM	I really think you'd better focus on enchantment (maybe take heighten spell?) and start charming/dominating your opponents, instead of trying to become a fighter.
Willie the Duck 02-23-07, 06:03 PM	From what you've told us, no. Don't take the feat. Weapon finesses is a no brainer feat: the people who should take it use it every day. Melee rogues or scouts? Sure. TWF dex based rangers or fighters? Yep. Rapier based prestige or base classes? yep. Characters that have high dex but no strength and want it "just in case" they get into melee? no. There are too many ways to get out of melee (and finese doesn't help vs. grapple, the normal "oh no I'm stuck in melee" situation), and too many ways to contribute other than being a poor substitute for the tank. If the party tanks go down, you should keep singing, buffing, and enchanting the enemy. Grab a bag of tricks and keep lobbing speed bump animals at the bad guys (some of those speed bumbs can be pretty fierce). With your buffs on them, they'll hold the day until the rest of the party can turn the situation around. Your character is a spellcasting build. It best contributes to the party by being an even better spellcaster.
Tuah 02-23-07, 06:15 PM	I'd suggest getting it, and improving your Dexterity as much as possible. That way you'll get more AC too! :D
runestar 02-23-07, 09:44 PM	I have heard of a controversial tactic where a fighter takes weapon finesse even though his str is higher than his dex, rationale being that if his str ever gets reduced to below his dex, he at least has his dex score to act as a buffer zone to prevent his to-hit roll from being depleted too much.:)
Willie the Duck 02-25-07, 12:03 AM	If his strength is higher than his dex, why would he be fighting with a finesseable weapon?
darth_borehd 02-25-07, 12:11 AM	Don't take it. You character doesn't sound like a melee fighter. Instead, get a missile weapon and take missile attack feats. If you get into a melee fight, use total defense until help arrives or run.
runestar 02-25-07, 12:23 AM	If his strength is higher than his dex, why would he be fighting with a finesseable weapon? Spiked chains are finessable...:) Of course, that assumes you do with a str-based build rather than a dex build(which might be better due to dex synergy with combat reflexes/robilar's gambit).:)
Garonak 02-25-07, 02:18 PM	Think I read somewhere that the rule of thumb for that feat is that if you have 2 more in dex modifier than in str you should consider it. But for your bard... I wouldn't take. Stick with a bow. Just learn exp. retreat (or have a magic item with it on) and stay away from melee. But then again I've only played a bard one time in my life and he lasted for 30 minutes real time (which is not the record in that group) grumble bloody druids and their 'Hey, I have dex, let me make the knot before we lower you 100ft down'
Ereanor 02-25-07, 03:44 PM	Thanks for all the responses. I'm not going to take Weapon Finesse. I think I will take Captivating Melody instead. I really want to boost my enchanting DC so this will help along with Skill Focus, Greater Skill Focus, and Heighten Spell. I know Sublime Chord would probably be the way to go but I really want to stay in the bard core class for the duration of this character. Thanks for all the help it was extremely helpful as usual.