Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Burlane 08-20-07, 01:46 PM	Is this legal? Can say a 14th Level Fighter with a Greatsword surronded by monsters use Whirlwind Attack and note that he is subtracting say -6 from his attack roll for +6 damage ?? (*would actually be +12 with two handed weapon), Thanks Burlane
BoringInfoGuy 08-20-07, 01:57 PM	I don't see why not. Whirlwind Attack only prevents you from taking extra attacks from feats or abilities. So, you can power attack as normal. But if you had Cleave or Great Cleave, you could not get the extra attacks from those feats. Also, Special attacks like Trip can be used in place of normal attacks during a Whirlwind Attack. But if you have the Improved Trip Feat, you would not be able to take the free attack on a tripped foe that the feat normally grants. Anything you can normally do as a standard attack, you can pull off in a whirlwind - except get extra attacks.
Burlane 08-20-07, 02:08 PM	"When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities. " Correct me if I'm wrong, But Whirlwind Attack to me seems like it is a Full Round Action. Meaning the only thing you can do other then your Whirlwind Attack would be to 5 foot step. How can you Trip ? I dont see how this works.....
tarkin 08-20-07, 02:19 PM	That is almost correct. Whirlwind is a Full Round Action But in the same round you do a Full Round Action you can ALSO do: 1. Swift or Immediate Action 2. An unlimited number of things that are "not an action". 3. A DM controlled number of things that are Free Actions. Setting the amount and the use of Power Attack count as "not an action" There is nothing preventing you from doing it as part of a Whirlwind Attack. It in infact a rather intelligent thing to do.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-20-07, 02:21 PM	"Full attack" doesn't mean "do nothing but inflict damage with your weapon." It does mean "do nothing but take attack actions" (and 5' steps and the like, of course). Trip, disarm, grapple, and sunder are all attack actions and can be used as part of a full attack (or even as attacks of opportunity).
Burlane 08-20-07, 02:21 PM	Thanks Tarkin !
Agroth5223 08-20-07, 03:14 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, But Whirlwind Attack to me seems like it is a Full Round Action. Meaning the only thing you can do other then your Whirlwind Attack would be to 5 foot step. How can you Trip ? I dont see how this works..... Think of it logicly. In a Whirlwind Attack, what are you doing? You are, essencially, making an attack on all opponent's within your weapon's reach, so you're spinning around with your weapon attacking everyone near you. Instead of attacking to deal damage why couldn't you attack to trip them? After all, it's still an attack.
oreththecentaur 08-20-07, 03:30 PM	Are you all sure that whirlwind attack and improved trip don't give you the "extra attack" when you successfully attack. Afterall improved trip doesn't grant you extra attacks it allows you to attack as though you hadn't used your attack in the trip attempt. Essentially, if you successfully trip them, the trip attempt hurt them, you don't knock them down and then hit them again.
Karla 08-23-07, 08:27 AM	Are you all sure that whirlwind attack and improved trip don't give you the "extra attack" when you successfully attack. Afterall improved trip doesn't grant you extra attacks it allows you to attack as though you hadn't used your attack in the trip attempt. Whirlwind attack clearly says you forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities - which the attack following a successful improved trip arguably is. Equally, as you say, the exact wording of Improved Trip is "you immediately get a melee attack as if you hadn't used your attack for the trip attack" [emphasis mine]. Unlike say Cleave which says you get an "extra attack". So there's an equally plausible argument that it's not an "extra" attack because you "haven't used" your original one! I think this is one that DMs are really going to have to decide for themselves! :)
tarkin 08-23-07, 04:07 PM	That sounds silly and literalistic twisting to me. Using Improved trip does not cause you to actually NOT use the attack to trip. You had one now you get another another. It lets you do another attack AS IF you had not done the original. It clearly is an extra attack with the LIMITATION that you can only do it as if you had not done the first one. Furthermore, the entire purpose of those words was to prevent people from chaining Improved Trip with things like Knockdown. For you to then use those words as an excuse to chain it with Whirlwind, after whirlwind went to so much trouble saying "no you can't get extra attacks", well it looks pretty bad to me.