Why are class skill points even #s? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Why are class skill points even #s? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jon of the North
05-09-07, 12:42 AM This suddenly bothered me.

Base facts, skip to ^^^^^^^ if you don't need.

Each class gets X skill points + Int mod when they level. Fighter gets 2+, Rogue gets 8+. So, assuming Int 10 and depending on class, Player has 2,4,6, or 8 points.

^^^^^^^^
Why only evens? Why not a class a little less skillful than the rogue who has base 7 skill points? Why can't a fighter have 3 + intel mod? It just confuses me because WotC chose 4 possibilities (2,4,6,8) over 7 (2-8). Why, WHY,

Why????

This is what happens when you can't sleep and have nothing else to do :twitch:
Salla
05-09-07, 12:47 AM This suddenly bothered me.

Base facts, skip to ^^^^^^^ if you don't need.

Each class gets X skill points + Int mod when they level. Fighter gets 2+, Rogue gets 8+. So, assuming Int 10 and depending on class, Player has 2,4,6, or 8 points.

^^^^^^^^
Why only evens? Why not a class a little less skillful than the rogue who has base 7 skill points? Why can't a fighter have 3 + intel mod? It just confuses me because WotC chose 4 possibilities (2,4,6,8) over 7 (2-8). Why, WHY,

Why????

This is what happens when you can't sleep and have nothing else to do :twitch:

Best guess ... so a non-human rogue will still have more skill points than a human hypothetical-7-skillpoints-a-level, with all else being equal. It makes the choice of race (or at least the 'human or not' option) more meaningful.

Kind of like why no racial ability modifier is odd ... it's +2/-2 or +4/-4s, so it *always* makes a difference.
Tempest Stormwind
05-09-07, 12:57 AM You want a class just a little less skillful than the rogue, you make a class with 8 skill points but decrease the value of Intelligence to that class. Likewise for a class slightly more skillful than the fighter -- if the warblade had only 2 skill points per level people would see it as slightly more skilled than the fighter because it rewards a high Intelligence score while the fighter doesn't (well, not above a 13 anyway, for the feats that require a 13+.). (As it is, the warblade has 4, since 2 skill points is an pain in all classes except Int-based ones, but that's another argument.)

(Honestly, my guess as to why they're even numbers? Because ability modifiers go up by +1 every 2 points. It puts a bit more of a dintinction between classes -- in 3e, when skill points like this were standardized, given the same Intelligence, an elven ranger (4sp) was still more skillful than a human fighter (3sp) because ranger was a more skillful class than the fighter, even an adaptive human one. Similarly, a half-orc bard (3sp) and a human fighter (3sp) were equivalent to show that the skillful class of the bard, in the hands of a slow half-orc, could be seen as about as skilled as the "unskilled" fighter in the hands of a quick and adaptive human. The 2 skill point margin allowed for racial adjustments to skills without letting race factor in *too* much. People were getting used to the idea of racial adjustments being +2/-2 instead of +1/-1 at the time of 3e's advent and likely expected the impact of race on your character to be increased as a result; this wasn't the case due to the changed ability score scale, but it's something to consider.

...A BS answer, obviously, but it's as good as any.)
Salla
05-09-07, 01:00 AM ...A BS answer, obviously, but it's as good as any.)

You have enough good rep on these boards, Tempest, that your BS smells like ice cream. :)
Nom
05-09-07, 01:51 AM In 3.0, it was always 2,4,8, right? 8 for rogues, 4 for "skillful" classes, 2 for everyone else?

3.5 introduced 6, to allow for skill specialists who weren't rogues (bard, ranger).

Why base 2? Probably because they decided that 2 was good for minimal skill points, doubled it for classes with good skills, and doubled again for rogues.
Tempest Stormwind
05-09-07, 01:59 AM Good point, Nom. I do recall the 3e update guidebook saying that rogue characters got extra skill points to purchase classical thief skills that were now part of the universal skill system; the breakdown of "skilled" vs "unskilled" therefore doesn't need to acount for rogues and makes it easy to see why they line up as they do.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jon of the North 05-09-07, 12:42 AM	This suddenly bothered me. Base facts, skip to ^^^^^^^ if you don't need. Each class gets X skill points + Int mod when they level. Fighter gets 2+, Rogue gets 8+. So, assuming Int 10 and depending on class, Player has 2,4,6, or 8 points. ^^^^^^^^ Why only evens? Why not a class a little less skillful than the rogue who has base 7 skill points? Why can't a fighter have 3 + intel mod? It just confuses me because WotC chose 4 possibilities (2,4,6,8) over 7 (2-8). Why, WHY, Why???? This is what happens when you can't sleep and have nothing else to do :twitch:
Salla 05-09-07, 12:47 AM	This suddenly bothered me. Base facts, skip to ^^^^^^^ if you don't need. Each class gets X skill points + Int mod when they level. Fighter gets 2+, Rogue gets 8+. So, assuming Int 10 and depending on class, Player has 2,4,6, or 8 points. ^^^^^^^^ Why only evens? Why not a class a little less skillful than the rogue who has base 7 skill points? Why can't a fighter have 3 + intel mod? It just confuses me because WotC chose 4 possibilities (2,4,6,8) over 7 (2-8). Why, WHY, Why???? This is what happens when you can't sleep and have nothing else to do :twitch: Best guess ... so a non-human rogue will still have more skill points than a human hypothetical-7-skillpoints-a-level, with all else being equal. It makes the choice of race (or at least the 'human or not' option) more meaningful. Kind of like why no racial ability modifier is odd ... it's +2/-2 or +4/-4s, so it always makes a difference.
Tempest Stormwind 05-09-07, 12:57 AM	You want a class just a little less skillful than the rogue, you make a class with 8 skill points but decrease the value of Intelligence to that class. Likewise for a class slightly more skillful than the fighter -- if the warblade had only 2 skill points per level people would see it as slightly more skilled than the fighter because it rewards a high Intelligence score while the fighter doesn't (well, not above a 13 anyway, for the feats that require a 13+.). (As it is, the warblade has 4, since 2 skill points is an pain in all classes except Int-based ones, but that's another argument.) (Honestly, my guess as to why they're even numbers? Because ability modifiers go up by +1 every 2 points. It puts a bit more of a dintinction between classes -- in 3e, when skill points like this were standardized, given the same Intelligence, an elven ranger (4sp) was still more skillful than a human fighter (3sp) because ranger was a more skillful class than the fighter, even an adaptive human one. Similarly, a half-orc bard (3sp) and a human fighter (3sp) were equivalent to show that the skillful class of the bard, in the hands of a slow half-orc, could be seen as about as skilled as the "unskilled" fighter in the hands of a quick and adaptive human. The 2 skill point margin allowed for racial adjustments to skills without letting race factor in too much. People were getting used to the idea of racial adjustments being +2/-2 instead of +1/-1 at the time of 3e's advent and likely expected the impact of race on your character to be increased as a result; this wasn't the case due to the changed ability score scale, but it's something to consider. ...A BS answer, obviously, but it's as good as any.)
Salla 05-09-07, 01:00 AM	...A BS answer, obviously, but it's as good as any.) You have enough good rep on these boards, Tempest, that your BS smells like ice cream. :)
Nom 05-09-07, 01:51 AM	In 3.0, it was always 2,4,8, right? 8 for rogues, 4 for "skillful" classes, 2 for everyone else? 3.5 introduced 6, to allow for skill specialists who weren't rogues (bard, ranger). Why base 2? Probably because they decided that 2 was good for minimal skill points, doubled it for classes with good skills, and doubled again for rogues.
Tempest Stormwind 05-09-07, 01:59 AM	Good point, Nom. I do recall the 3e update guidebook saying that rogue characters got extra skill points to purchase classical thief skills that were now part of the universal skill system; the breakdown of "skilled" vs "unskilled" therefore doesn't need to acount for rogues and makes it easy to see why they line up as they do.