Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ToastedAmphibian 04-02-08, 07:35 PM	Wild Ki [General] Prerequisites: Ki Strike class ability, Untamed Strike class ability Benifit: Your levels in Fist of the Forest stack with your monk levels for the purpose of determing your Ki Strike ability. (Other possible addition include: Speed bonus, Slow Fall, and/or Armor Bonus: All depending on what others sugest regarding balance.) Seeing as Fist of the Forest is only 3 levels, this seems like it should be a fairly weak feat and shouldnt be a problem. Do you think its too strong? Too weak? Would you allow it in a campagine of yours? If too strong/weak, why and how would you fix it? If you wouldnt allow it, why? Would you allow it to overcome a monks multiclassing restriction in regard to fist of the forest? The only really powerfull option i see for this would be to make Monk 7/ FotF 3/ Iniatie of Pistis Sophia 10. And really it seems to me that Fist of the Forest fits really well flavor wise with VoP anyways.
mplindustries 04-02-08, 08:22 PM	My only critiques are: 1) There is no precedence for a feat stacking a base class and a prestige class. Is this a problem? Not necessarily, but it is a fact. 2) It just simply "feels" too powerful. Its not something I can exactly pin down. Fist of the Forest strikes me as a completely broken class. It makes, as far as I'm concerned, one of the cardinal sins of roleplaying. It provides a mechanical benefit that is balanced by a purely non-mechanical mechanism, i.e. roleplaying restrictions. I don't know, I'm not saying don't do it...
ToastedAmphibian 04-02-08, 09:24 PM	? I thought fist of the forest was balanced the same as all other prestege classes.... Sub-optimal feat requierments and an opportunity cost. (AKA, you could have taken something else)
EjoThims 04-03-08, 01:13 PM	Fist of the Forest strikes me as a completely broken class. Fist of the Forest makes up for itself if you actually take all 3 levels. If you only take the first (which is the only remotely useful one), then yes, it is very, very broken. On top of that, Ki Strike the class feature, is not very powerful at all. I wouldn't see a feat that let all your class levels that stacked for unarmed damage also stack in regards to your Ki Strike as too powerful even.
ToastedAmphibian 04-03-08, 03:55 PM	Fist of the Forest makes up for itself if you actually take all 3 levels. If you only take the first (which is the only remotely useful one), then yes, it is very, very broken. On top of that, Ki Strike the class feature, is not very powerful at all. I wouldn't see a feat that let all your class levels that stacked for unarmed damage also stack in regards to your Ki Strike as too powerful even. Hmm, im not quite sure i understand where you stand as to the feat in question. Fo you think its underpowered? if so what should be added to it. Would you allow it in your campagine if one of your players wanted it.
EjoThims 04-03-08, 04:53 PM	Fo you think its underpowered? if so what should be added to it. Yes. I would add the ability for all classes that stack for unarmed damage to also stack for determining the level of your Ki Strike ability. Would you allow it in your campagine if one of your players wanted it. I would.
mplindustries 04-03-08, 08:29 PM	Hmm, im not quite sure i understand where you stand as to the feat in question. Fo you think its underpowered? if so what should be added to it. Would you allow it in your campagine if one of your players wanted it. Yes. I would add the ability for all classes that stack for unarmed damage to also stack for determining the level of your Ki Strike ability. I would. I would agree. I still don't like Fist of the Forest, but I'd allow it for any other unarmed classes.
ToastedAmphibian 04-03-08, 09:01 PM	So you would suggest something along the lines of: Exceptional Ki Requierments: Ki strike abilty, wisdom 15 Your inner Ki is so strong, it grow in power as you do, even should your monastic understanding stagnate Benifit: When determing the level of your Ki strike progression, you may use your character level in place of your monk level Is this more to your liking then?
mplindustries 04-04-08, 03:34 AM	I like that version a lot better and would totally allow it. I think Ejo, however, was suggesting that only classes which directly improve your unarmed attacks would stack for Ki Strike. I think thats probably too vague and restrictive, so I'd just do character level as you already have suggested. Wisdom 14 as a requirement seems a bit arbitrary, though. For one, all other attribute requirements on feats are odd numbers. Secondly, I don't really see what it has to do with Ki Striking. If you really want a second requirement (other than Ki Strike), I'd go with 15 Wisdom. Or 13 if you play really low powered (ie default 28 point buy) games.
ToastedAmphibian 04-04-08, 12:37 PM	Hmm, good point about odd numbered skill requierments. I guess odd numbers have to have SOME kind of purpose, and it is indeed wrong of me to encroach on there domain. Ill change it acordingly. The wisdom requierment is there because wisdom is what allows you to channel ki to begine with i guess. 14 is high enough to warrant a diffrence from anyone who just took a few monk levels, but not so high as to really keep most people out. If your going to take 4 levels of monk, its probably in your best intrest to have atleast 14 wisdom.