Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElyasRavenwood 04-17-08, 12:30 AM	I just have a quick question. If I have a 10 level human fighter wielding a great sword two handed, He power attacks for 10 points of damage, and then rolls a 20. Next he confirms his critical. As I am figuring damage, I assume it would be 2d6 + modifiers ( str magic etc) and 2d6 + modifiers ( str magic etc). What about the power attack damage? I think it would be another 20 points of damage. Would it be added after the double damage for the Critical hit, or would the power attack damage be added to each die roll, effectively making the power attack damage 40 points? Thank you
highbulp 04-17-08, 12:50 AM	Yes, Power Attack damage is doubled on a critical hit. Most every static number (ie, not expressed in number of dice) gets multiplied on a crit.
ElyasRavenwood 04-17-08, 08:39 AM	Thank you. The resident power gamer in our group was using a fighter with a giant sized two handed sword. The sword was Keen. I am not sure what other magical properties it had. He was using the "monkey grip" feat to use this weapon. The amount of damage was impressive. on his crits there was usually a 55 pt minimum, sometimes 110 points. If the power attack is folded into regular damage, and it is doubled along with everything else, I can understand how my friend got such high die rolls.
Vharuck 04-17-08, 09:16 AM	Just two things I want to point out (I'm sure you understand the answer given to your problem, but this is a common question so I'm mostly doing this for the benefit of those who are reading this thread because they have similar questions): When determining critical bonus damage, a good rule of thumb is that constants (or statics, like the above poster called them) are multiplied while variables (a.k.a. damage dice that aren't from the base weapon) are not. So if a Rogue with 14 Strength (+2 bonus) power attacks for 3 bonus damage with her +2 flaming rapier and also adds +3d6 damage from her Sneak Attack ability, her damage would be equal to: 1d6 (rapier) + 2 (enhancement) + 1d6 fire (flaming) + 2 (Strength) +3 (Power Attack) + 3d6 (Sneak Attack) And, should she critically hit in that situation, only some parts of the damage would be doubled (I've colored them red). Her damage would be equal to: 2d6 (rapier) + 4 (enhancement) + 1d6 fire (flaming) + 4 (Strength) + 6 (Power Attack) + 3d6 (Sneak Attack) My second point is the power of Power Attack. I think of it this way: everything comes with a cost. The AC of powerful baddies is chosen to give players a challenge, so Power Attacking when hitting the tough guys may not be the best option as the fighter's increasing his chance to miss. It works great against minion-type foes (like the two inept guards found at every fort), but in those cases the massive damage gained simply speeds up the inevitable outcome: the players will be victorious without spending much resources. To make Power Attack more viable, the fighter has to increase his attack bonuses, and so he chooses bonuses to attack instead of bonuses to damage (having a wizard craft him a +3 greatsword instead of a +1 flaming, shocking greatsword. So, in effect, this bonus damage comes at the cost of bonus damage.
Frozen Yakman 04-17-08, 02:10 PM	Do remember the rule about stacking multiplication. If you power attack with a greataxe for 5 and crit you get +20 damage from power attack not +30.
kalstrand 04-17-08, 09:59 PM	Actually you do get +30 when scoring a crit with a great axe when Power Attacking for 5. Great axe has a x3 crit so when you crit you roll damage 3 times. 1d12 +6 [18 Str +4(1.5)]+10 (Power Attack -5 attack +10 dmg for 2 hander) When you crit you roll the damage 3 times for a total of 3d10 +18 (Str from above*3) +30 (Power Attack from above*3)
Frozen Yakman 04-18-08, 02:31 PM	That does not follow the rule for stacking multipliers at all. You've got x2 - two handed weapon and x3 - critical which results in a x4 multiplier (2 + 3 - 1) on the penalty as per the rules of stacking multipliers. Hence a -5 penalty is +20 to the damage.
Shaggy_Shaggs 04-18-08, 02:35 PM	The problem with that is the +10 from power attacking for 5 with a two-handed weapon is not figured separately from the rest of the damage, and doesn't collide with the rules for a multiplier being multiplied again. By the time it gets to crit calculations you're just working with a flat +10 bonus to damage. 10 * 3 = 30.
Tordak 04-19-08, 07:40 AM	Exactly like strengh bonus to damage is 1.5xstr bonus for a 2-handed weapon. You figure out how much that is, round down, and get your strengh bonus to damage. Then the whole thing gets multiplied if you get a crit, no stacking rules.
Black Mantha 04-21-08, 11:00 AM	That does not follow the rule for stacking multipliers at all. You've got x2 - two handed weapon and x3 - critical which results in a x4 multiplier (2 + 3 - 1) on the penalty as per the rules of stacking multipliers. Hence a -5 penalty is +20 to the damage. You're not doubling the bonus of Power Attack if you wield two-handed, you're getting 2 instead of 1, therefore the rules on stacking multipliers don't apply. Subtle wording difference. If you rule it should go the other way, I won't argue, but this is the rule I use.
Avatar28 07-11-08, 04:24 PM	You're not doubling the bonus of Power Attack if you wield two-handed, you're getting 2 instead of 1, therefore the rules on stacking multipliers don't apply. Subtle wording difference. If you rule it should go the other way, I won't argue, but this is the rule I use. Wait, I'm confused here. Let me make sure I understand. When you power attack with a 1-handed weapon you get the number you subtract (1=1, 2=2, etc). But if you are using the weapon 2-handed then you get the amount you're subtracting twice, (1=2, 2=4, etc)? You would then add whatever that bonus is to your strength and any enhancement bonuses before multiplying. So if you had, say, a x2 weapon and a strength bonus of 4 the formula would work out like this: normal 1H = (damage dice) + (enhancement) + (4str + (pwr atk bonus)) + (special damage) normal 2H = (damage dice) + (enhancement) + (6str + 2(pwr atk bonus)) + (special damage) crit 1H = 2(damage dice) + 2(enhancement) + 2(4str + (pwr atk bonus)) + (special damage) crit 2H = 2(damage dice) + 2(enhancement) + 2(6str + 2(pwr atk bonus)) + (special damage) special damage being elemental, holy, sneak attack or what have you that doesn't get multiplied.
MERC_1 07-12-08, 01:00 PM	Yes, that's the right way to do it!
Capt_GeorgeDubyaBush 07-12-08, 04:31 PM	Thank you. The resident power gamer in our group was using a fighter with a giant sized two handed sword. The sword was Keen. I am not sure what other magical properties it had. He was using the "monkey grip" feat to use this weapon. The amount of damage was impressive. on his crits there was usually a 55 pt minimum, sometimes 110 points. If the power attack is folded into regular damage, and it is doubled along with everything else, I can understand how my friend got such high die rolls. This is not a power gamer. Power gamers are smart enough to use reach weapons such as the spiked chain or glaive. They are smart enough to not focus on crits unless the crit effect works even against immunes due to the fact crit immunity is all too common. Power gamers are smart enough to realize Monkey Grip is A Trap and not touch it with an eleven foot pole. With that said, PA is just damage added to the weapon. Criticals multiply it. PA for 20, and crit with a x2 two handed weapon, and you get +80 damage from it. This is the reason why gishes (fighter mages basically) work, because they can get themselves set up to PA for huge numbers, still hit often, and do large amounts of damage. It's also why chargers work well. Even just a basic PA Leap Attacker is getting a 4:1 return. Start throwing in Shock Trooper, Valorous, etc... It's very hard not to charge for high damage.
Rulebook 07-12-08, 07:23 PM	yeah no kidding, instead of monkey grip he could have used his feat on leap attack, and REALLY brought some damage in.
Spikes01k 07-13-08, 12:56 AM	Thank you. The resident power gamer in our group was using a fighter with a giant sized two handed sword. The sword was Keen. I am not sure what other magical properties it had. He was using the "monkey grip" feat to use this weapon. The amount of damage was impressive. on his crits there was usually a 55 pt minimum, sometimes 110 points. If the power attack is folded into regular damage, and it is doubled along with everything else, I can understand how my friend got such high die rolls. There really isn't a way for a 10th level fighter to wield a giant two handed weapon. The most one can assume to get is large, or ack like huge with magic.
ORC_Chaos 07-30-08, 07:31 PM	I’ve removed content from this thread because baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
Orenmir 07-31-08, 11:51 AM	<FYI> There is a static figure that does not get multiplied in a crit... Elemental or similar damage expressed as 1 point. I.G. -- Least Crystal of [element] Assault. </FYI>