Post/Author/DateTime	Post
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-20-03, 10:01 PM	I have created this foundation as a place that people can go to discuss the topics of arcane spellcasters. Please submit your own topics, spells, magic items, prestige classes etc... There will not be any ranks, or anything like that. This is for everyone, so anyone can join. I ask that users please keep away from the name calling, or anything remotely close. It's rude, and there could be younger users coming to this thread. Basically, you need to stick to the CoC. Please stay on topic, and no starting flamewars, it is okay to argue, but don't let it get out of hand. If anyone doesn't abide by the rules then you will be reported to the moderator. Please have fun, and make it fun for others. The first topic will be this....Is specializing worth it? Do you think specialist spellcasters need to get more because they give up so much?
Castlmike 11-20-03, 10:08 PM	Depends on your choice Diviners and Necromancers seem to benefit the most since the least restrictions spell wise. Never understood why specialists didn't get the School Focus Feat with their Specialization.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-20-03, 10:23 PM	Originally posted by Castlmike Depends on your choice Diviners and Necromancers seem to benefit the most since the least restrictions spell wise. Never understood why specialists didn't get the School Focus Feat with their Specialization. Yeah I know what you mean. You would think that a specialist spellcaster would get that feat.
Luminous Crayon 11-21-03, 01:50 AM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek The first topic will be this....Is specializing worth it? Do you think specialist spellcasters need to get more because they give up so much? I've still not made up my mind on that issue. Specialists give up versatility, but the gain of one spell per level per day is huge. It's extra staying power that could make a big difference in the heat of battle, especially for higher spell levels, where one extra spell doubles daily output and bonus spells from high Int are impossible without an Int in the high 20s.
Xavim 11-21-03, 01:56 AM	At early levels specialisation doesn't show itself to be worth it. As an unspecialised wizard will just be scribing scrolls to make up for the difference in spell power. The 1 additional spell/level definately shows itself to be a powerful ability once you get into the higher spell levels where scribing scrolls becomes expensive. And even moreso in epic where you have to spend a feat to gain any more spells. In the specialists case, he'd get a 2 for 1 deal over the general mage. But I hate the lack of versitility. If I wanted to be limited in my spellcasting I'd play a sorcerer.
kedi 11-21-03, 02:15 AM	ever heard of council of archmages?
Xavim 11-21-03, 06:14 AM	Its been my experience with that council that nothing ever gets debated effectively. The thread (as far as I've seen) tends to be haphazard in its debating and loses the topic far too fast. I think this set up is nice.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-21-03, 07:22 AM	As was stated before, the Spell Focus feat should have been a given in my opinion. I mean it makes so much more sense for a specialists spells from his certain school to be harder to resist.
Luminous Crayon 11-21-03, 02:25 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek As was stated before, the Spell Focus feat should have been a given in my opinion. I mean it makes so much more sense for a specialists spells from his certain school to be harder to resist. No reason a specialist can't take that feat at first level. Heck, a human specialist wizard could even have Greater Spell Focus in the school of his specialization at first level. Sure, it'd be nice to have it given as a free feat, bit I think balance dictates otherwise. One free spell per level pre day was judged to be enough of a benefit, apparently.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-23-03, 03:24 PM	Originally posted by Luminous Crayon No reason a specialist can't take that feat at first level. Heck, a human specialist wizard could even have Greater Spell Focus in the school of his specialization at first level. Sure, it'd be nice to have it given as a free feat, bit I think balance dictates otherwise. One free spell per level pre day was judged to be enough of a benefit, apparently. What I was saying was, the specialist should automatically get the Spell Focus feat in his school of specialization.
Luminous Crayon 11-23-03, 06:09 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek What I was saying was, the specialist should automatically get the Spell Focus feat in his school of specialization. Obviously I understood your intention, since I already addressed that in my previous post. Sure, it'd be nice to have it given as a free feat, bit I think balance dictates otherwise. One free spell per level pre day was judged to be enough of a benefit, apparently
Ice Wizard 11-24-03, 12:08 AM	quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure, it'd be nice to have it given as a free feat, bit I think balance dictates otherwise. One free spell per level per day was judged to be enough of a benefit, apparently: I would have to agree, although I would see it balanced if they added the spell focus feats to their list of bonus feats. ;) ****Small tips and tricks with spell focus **** :teach: Those who look down on Spell Focus[Conjuration] probably haven't heard of Mestil's Acid Breath or used it with Grease :teach: Spell Focus doesn't sound that powerful until you learn [I]Phantasmal Killer :teach: Anyone that turns up their nose at Enchantments has yet to see the true power of Dominate Person especially when cast on a Fighter or Barbarian.
mercurywyrm 11-24-03, 01:04 AM	I can't help it I must show you this because I doubt anyone much will look at it otherwisemy alternate sorcerer in progress (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135831) .:D Arcane spellcasters rock! I should post some of my own, self developed spells here!:D
aravilar_holistacia 11-24-03, 01:17 AM	If you decide to continue to call this thread a "foundation" you should (read: must) read WizO_Catoblepas's CoC guidelines for foundations so that our foundations will not be locked. Originally Posted by kedi ever heard of council of archmages? That is a good point. I am a high archmage there. aravilar PS: :bump:
Luminous Crayon 11-24-03, 11:29 AM	Originally posted by Ice Wizard I would have to agree, although I would see it balanced if they added the spell focus feats to their list of bonus feats. ;) That's a great idea. Are you suggesting adding the relavent Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus to the bonus feat list of specialists only, or adding all Spell Focus feats to the bonus feat list of all wizards, even generalists?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-28-03, 07:30 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia If you decide to continue to call this thread a "foundation" you should (read: must) read WizO_Catoblepas's CoC guidelines for foundations so that our foundations will not be locked. That is a good point. I am a high archmage there. aravilar PS: :bump: From what I have seen, the Council of Archmages goes against the CoC because they have ranks. WizO_Cat, specifically put that there should be no ranks or the like, everyone should be equal. I have read the thread.
Finwe 11-28-03, 08:53 PM	Try not to disscuss the council, becasue that is off topic and will get this thread closed, even if it is almost a CoA clone. I think that specialists kind of got nuked (excuse the pun) in 3.5. I personaly think that gicing up two whole schools of magic just for being able to cast one more spell and knowing one more spell is bogus. If you want to cast more spells, then be a sorcerer: that's why they exist.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-28-03, 09:00 PM	Originally posted by Finwe Try not to disscuss the council, becasue that is off topic and will get this thread closed, even if it is almost a CoA clone. I think that specialists kind of got nuked (excuse the pun) in 3.5. I personaly think that gicing up two whole schools of magic just for being able to cast one more spell and knowing one more spell is bogus. If you want to cast more spells, then be a sorcerer: that's why they exist. I just believe that they got shafted, just because they can cast one more spell per level. I like variety, not quantity. So if I am going to lose that many spells, then I want compensation for it.
TheDarkestOfAngels 11-28-03, 09:47 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I just believe that they got shafted, just because they can cast one more spell per level. I like variety, not quantity. So if I am going to lose that many spells, then I want compensation for it. it really depends on what you specialize as and what prohibited schools are picked. For instance, I recently created a diviner. Diviners in 3.5 are special, because they need only pick one prohibited school of spells, but there are certain schools of spells that are less important. those are typically illusion, enchantment, necromancy. Abjuration is important because it comprises most of the defensive power of the wizard/sorcerer spell list as well as dimensional anchor, mordenkainen's disjunction, and dispel magic. Conjuration is absolutely important (in 3.5) since teleport and the like spells are now of the conjuration school. transmutation is still a large and extremely versitile school, since it contains a little of everything, including defensive transmutation, like iron body and cat's grace and offensive spells, like destruction. transmutation can be done without, (since teleport went elsewhere) but... that's at a high price. Evocation is also something that can be done without, but only at a high price. especially since the most powerful offensive and defensive elemental magics and contingency spells are within the school. all in all, one extra spell/level is never a bad thing. it just depends on what you memorized. remember, also that specializing also allows the caster to aquire one extra spell/level of the specialized school, gaining 3/new level instead of the wizard's two. the ability to memorize one extra spell/level also means that a wizard can come out with more variety with carefully chosen spells than a wizard. However, like the sorcerer (only less so), playing a specialist wizard requires good knowledge of the spells and the schools that contain them to be effective.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 11-29-03, 12:43 PM	Oh great another foundation :Sigh:...I can almost see it...the arragant CoA is gonna start a flame war with the bad-mouthing Casters of the Arcane Foundation which the argument will be is a rip off of the CoA beacuse its in the class section where it should be in the magic and spells section. The CoA people will say that there foundation is in the classes beacuse it is ment to talk mainly about wizards with references to the sorcs. The CoA people will say that you copied them beacuse your really talking about just magic. This foundation memeber people are gonna counter by saying the CoA DOES talk about Magic items and spells so they should get moved too. Well finwe my suggestion to you is to summon up some chairs while I go set fire to popcorn seeds and watch the fireworks begin. --------------------------------- ANYWAYS! I hate speacilizing...at least mechanically. Often I say o ok I will be a fire mage or I will be a "manipulator". I dont belive that spells always belong in the group there in. Say your an enchanter and you want to charm people into doing things. That dosent mean that other spells arent usefull. Prehaps with a little fire magic you can awe people into fearing you while using your enchantment magic to increase the emotion. Also the combat magic works well beacuse if you go against lets say...a golem army you dont want to become dead weight. Just my two cents...Well four Copper I guess I did give out two messages in one post... -Lord Frostbite Ravenheart.
Finwe 11-29-03, 01:12 PM	Well, i'll bring some sunglasses encase the flames get to bright, and maybe some marshmellows for roasting, but my purpose hear is mainly to PREVENT a flame war. (although you are correct: this thread SHOULD be in the magic items/spell section) Maybe if specialization increased the DC of a specialized school it would be worth it, but until then, I probably won't use it.
Oedipus_Tyrannus 11-29-03, 01:36 PM	I completely agree that specialists should get spell focus in their school (free). I would even go as far as to say that greater spell focus makes sense. From a logical standpoint, if they devote their lives to studying one school of magic (primarily) rather than magic in general as a non-specialist wizard would, they should get significant benefits to that school. Another issue I often see with specialist wizards is that they dont roleplay the specialization--they use it as a munchkin power-gamer tool (someone already showed how this can be done, with the extra spell). To fix these problems, I have rewritten specialization for my games, as follows: BONUSSES: - one extra spell per level per day to memorize - spell focus: school of choice - greater spell focus: school of choice - +4 to spellcraft checks involving their school of choice for all purposes - +2 to save vs. enemy spells of school of choice TO COMPENSATE: - loss of schools (as noted in PHB) - -2 to spellcraft checks involving all spells outside of their school of choice (for all purposes) - half of memorized spells per spell level per day must be of chosen school (rounded up for an odd number of spells) - "negative spell focus: all non-chosen and non-prohibited schools," meaning -1 to save vs. your spells of those schools - -1 to save vs. enemy spells of non-chosen, non-prohibited schools - -2 to save vs. enemy spells of prohibited schools What do you think? It could even be two extra spells/leve/day, I don't know. The main thing this does is force people to play to their specilizations, and it creates interesting and fun uses of spells (illusion, for example). -- Oedipus Tyrannus
Archmage of Netheril 11-29-03, 02:29 PM	Originally posted by Xavim Its been my experience with that council that nothing ever gets debated effectively. The thread (as far as I've seen) tends to be haphazard in its debating and loses the topic far too fast. I think this set up is nice. Excuse me but is that a flame! It sounds like it to me, and thats against the CoC. 1) I think that its nice that we can also talk freely among each other on the CoA not only talking about topic things, but talking about other things as well, they made a word for what this is called, its known as "friendship". 2) unfortunately we have to go to the topic only ways, because of the new CoC. 3) lets see how long you last/ if you can stay on topic for a year!
The Simbul 11-29-03, 11:49 PM	IMO Specialist Wizards should recieve a +1 Bonus to Spell DC's in their specialized school and +2 to saving throws against spells of their chosen school, but not in the form of the Spell Focus and Arcane Defense feats. I.E. the bonuses should be an innate class feature that stack with the bonuses from those feats in the same fashion that a Gnome's Bonus to DC's and Saves for Illusion spells stacks with bonuses from such feats (and yes the Gnome's bonus would also stack with any bonuses she would recieve from specializing).
TheDarkestOfAngels 11-30-03, 02:43 AM	Originally posted by The Simbul IMO Specialist Wizards should recieve a +1 Bonus to Spell DC's in their specialized school and +2 to saving throws against spells of their chosen school, but not in the form of the Spell Focus and Arcane Defense feats. I.E. the bonuses should be an innate class feature that stack with the bonuses from those feats in the same fashion that a Gnome's Bonus to DC's and Saves for Illusion spells stacks with bonuses from such feats (and yes the Gnome's bonus would also stack with any bonuses she would recieve from specializing). but would that mean that specialist wizards would become a source of rule abuse if that were true? essentially it would cause flashbacks of archmage/red wizard and greater spell focus combos, because something like that would be along the lines of the old stacking abuses from 3.0 EDIT: altered second paragraph
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-30-03, 01:45 PM	People, enough about the flaming issue. Please don't discuss CoA, or any other foundations here. This foundation is for everyone who is serious about gaming discussions. Now on to the topics. I personally don't care for the Sorcerer class, but I do rather enjoy the Shugenja class from the Oriental campaign. I don't like that you are limited like a Sorcerer in spell capacity, but I do like the specialization-like idea behind the class. I also liek that you get Elemental focus, and you get automatic Spell Focus for your specialized element. That is what the Specialist Wizard should have, something along that line.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-30-03, 01:45 PM	People, enough about the flaming issue. Please don't discuss CoA, or any other foundations here. This foundation is for everyone who is serious about gaming discussions. Now on to the topics. I personally don't care for the Sorcerer class, but I do rather enjoy the Shugenja class from the Oriental campaign. I don't like that you are limited like a Sorcerer in spell capacity, but I do like the specialization-like idea behind the class. I also like that you get Elemental focus, and you get automatic Spell Focus for your specialized element. That is what the Specialist Wizard should have, something along that line.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-03-03, 08:46 PM	On to another topic if everyone is through with this one. Should casters be able to give up their familiars for something else?
mercurywyrm 12-04-03, 12:49 AM	Yes, because familars are a class feature that is optional and many fantasy wizards have no familiar. However, a familiar costs money, so I would reccomend something that dosn't take affect right away. Maybe make the familiar a bonus feat and give them a bonus feat a first level. This could work OK, if it weren't that a familiar is so tough. Or is it the feat that is so tough?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-06-03, 11:36 PM	Originally posted by mercurywyrm Yes, because familars are a class feature that is optional and many fantasy wizards have no familiar. However, a familiar costs money, so I would reccomend something that dosn't take affect right away. Maybe make the familiar a bonus feat and give them a bonus feat a first level. This could work OK, if it weren't that a familiar is so tough. Or is it the feat that is so tough? I see your point. You shouldn't have to have a familiar and waste an ability.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-10-03, 12:33 AM	I believe during character creation you should have a choice between a feat, or a familiar.
KRONOS 12-10-03, 01:38 AM	I believe during character creation you should have a choice between a feat, or a familiar. Is a familiar really worth a feat? I don't know. Definately not at low levels. What is everyones opinion. does the value of a familiar equal the value of a feat? As for the specialization topic. Yes, spell focus makes sense, but together with the extra spells per day it may be a bit overpowered IMO.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-10-03, 02:00 AM	Originally posted by KRONOS Is a familiar really worth a feat? I don't know. Definately not at low levels. What is everyones opinion. does the value of a familiar equal the value of a feat? As for the specialization topic. Yes, spell focus makes sense, but together with the extra spells per day it may be a bit overpowered IMO. I think people do underestimate a good familiar. I also think the familiar is better than a feat. You get: Alerness, a scout, a RP companion, a living long range "touch" spell, a bonus to a skill (or something), plus a bunch more... People also laud about how weak a familiar is in combat. I think people forget that when the party recieves mass buffs (like haste and mass cat's grace), the familiar is affected too, they can also wear old magical equipment (only really true at high levels, when weaker magic items become expendable), and, more importantly, anything the caster casts on himself, like shield, mage armor, contingency (and the spell inside), energy immunity, mind blank, etc. etc. etc. also affect the familiar through shared spells. Furthermore, they do share saving throws (the familiar gets a good will from the wizard, his only weak save), the familiar gets an awesome natural armor bonus (up to +10), spell resistance, and improved evasion. In epic, the familiar can actually be embued with some spells that the familiar can cast in conjunction with the mage. Thus, I think familiars are much better than people give them credit for, but only if you understand their abilities and what they can do for the mage that owns the familiar.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-11-03, 10:40 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels I think people do underestimate a good familiar. I also think the familiar is better than a feat. You get: Alerness, a scout, a RP companion, a living long range "touch" spell, a bonus to a skill (or something), plus a bunch more... People also laud about how weak a familiar is in combat. I think people forget that when the party recieves mass buffs (like haste and mass cat's grace), the familiar is affected too, they can also wear old magical equipment (only really true at high levels, when weaker magic items become expendable), and, more importantly, anything the caster casts on himself, like shield, mage armor, contingency (and the spell inside), energy immunity, mind blank, etc. etc. etc. also affect the familiar through shared spells. Furthermore, they do share saving throws (the familiar gets a good will from the wizard, his only weak save), the familiar gets an awesome natural armor bonus (up to +10), spell resistance, and improved evasion. In epic, the familiar can actually be embued with some spells that the familiar can cast in conjunction with the mage. Thus, I think familiars are much better than people give them credit for, but only if you understand their abilities and what they can do for the mage that owns the familiar. But, familiars can get you killed. If they die, you lose the abilities from them and you suffer. Not worth it.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-11-03, 10:41 PM	cont...unless you wish to use all your abilities keeping them alive and risk getting killed.
KRONOS 12-11-03, 11:45 PM	posted by Xun' But, familiars can get you killed. If they die, you lose the abilities from them and you suffer. Well... true. But loosing any member of a party can cause big problems. Loose the fighter and you will loose the buffer between you and that nasty ogre. Loose the cleric and no more healing spells. Loose the familiar and you loose the abilities. You could die before your familiar! Everyone in the party is at risk.
Castlmike 12-12-03, 12:09 AM	Yes again to the original post, thought there were some excellent posts. Slightly off topic but pertains to familiars. Take the current case of a second level multiclass Sorcerer-Wizard both classes get a familiar. Sorry guy you already have a familiar. Why do you just lose that benefit without anything in return? You would think it would improve the familiar feat or scribe scroll or rate a metamagic or something. Wouldn't it be kinda cool to play with two familiars? Note paladin level 5 sorcerer or wizard 1 keeps his mount and the familiar, the same for a ranger or druid and some of those Celestial or Companions in Defenders of The Faith or the Blackguard in the DMG.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-13-03, 11:19 AM	Originally posted by KRONOS posted by Xun' Well... true. But loosing any member of a party can cause big problems. Loose the fighter and you will loose the buffer between you and that nasty ogre. Loose the cleric and no more healing spells. Loose the familiar and you loose the abilities. You could die before your familiar! Everyone in the party is at risk. Watching over your familiar and yourself is pretty hard sometimes. My character took the bat familiar because I could have him fly off and stay out of danger, or I could put him away in one of my deepest pockets. I usually don't have him doing my touch spells for me because he doesn't have good HP at all, and I don't want to risk loosing him. I kinda wish I didn't have him cause I get to paranoid to use him for fear he will die.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-18-03, 07:44 PM	Lets not end the thread now.
Osiris001 12-18-03, 09:24 PM	The penalty for losing a familar has never bothered me. it really is a small price to pay for having a powerful ally that is totally loyal to u AND can save your life just as many times as it can take it. Plus, through the use of permanecy spells, your familiar can become just as strong as the fighter, just as dexterous as the rogue, and just as smart as you. Afterthoughts: When life hands you lemons, shut up and eat the darn lemons.:)
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-19-03, 07:22 PM	Originally posted by Osiris001 The penalty for losing a familar has never bothered me. it really is a small price to pay for having a powerful ally that is totally loyal to u AND can save your life just as many times as it can take it. Plus, through the use of permanecy spells, your familiar can become just as strong as the fighter, just as dexterous as the rogue, and just as smart as you. Afterthoughts: When life hands you lemons, shut up and eat the darn lemons.:) But you still have to protect that familiar up to that point. You have to spend more time and effort protecting your familiar than you do yourself. Yeah a familiar gets better HP, but look who's HP they get it from, yours, the spellcaster with the D4.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-19-03, 07:29 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek But you still have to protect that familiar up to that point. You have to spend more time and effort protecting your familiar than you do yourself. Yeah a familiar gets better HP, but look who's HP they get it from, yours, the spellcaster with the D4. not really. the best in-battle defenses your familiar can get your familiar can get just from its shared spells ability. You cast mage armor on yourself, your familiar gets the same benifit at no extra charge. At upper levels, a mage that makes things perminant on him/herself also affect his/her familiar. Anything, really, that a wizard or sorcerer casts on his/herself also affects his/her familiar. Things like mind blank, spell turning, globe of invaulnerability, shield, protection from arrows, etc. etc. even things like tensor's transformation, haste, iron body, elemental body, energy immunity, and the like all affect the wizards familiar at no extra charge. not to mention its improved evasion, natural armor, small stature, etc. etc. that all make up for having half the HP's of a wizard. If the wizard has a good con, then that really doesn't matter that much, does it? familiars are far from vulnerable.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-19-03, 07:36 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels not really. the best in-battle defenses your familiar can get your familiar can get just from its shared spells ability. You cast mage armor on yourself, your familiar gets the same benifit at no extra charge. At upper levels, a mage that makes things perminant on him/herself also affect his/her familiar. Anything, really, that a wizard or sorcerer casts on his/herself also affects his/her familiar. Things like mind blank, spell turning, globe of invaulnerability, shield, protection from arrows, etc. etc. even things like tensor's transformation, haste, iron body, elemental body, energy immunity, and the like all affect the wizards familiar at no extra charge. not to mention its improved evasion, natural armor, small stature, etc. etc. that all make up for having half the HP's of a wizard. If the wizard has a good con, then that really doesn't matter that much, does it? familiars are far from vulnerable. It's just as low levels when you are hit with radius type spells like fireball and such. Yeah a familiar gets evasion, but they could fail that saving throw and be obliterated quickly. Of if you have a real vicious DM and he begins targeting your familiar.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-19-03, 08:22 PM	if they fail their saving throw, then they recieve half damage. A mage's familiar isn't any more prone to death by failed reflex saves than their masters, except that they might have a better reflex save because they get a better reflex save than their masters.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-19-03, 08:28 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels if they fail their saving throw, then they recieve half damage. A mage's familiar isn't any more prone to death by failed reflex saves than their masters, except that they might have a better reflex save because they get a better reflex save than their masters. Ok look at it like this. Lets say a 3rd level Wizard with 15 hp has a familiar. The familiar has 7 hp. You get hit with a fireball. All the mage would have to do is do at least 14 points of damage with that fireball to kill your familiar even with evasion and making the saving throw. A Wizard really doesn't have that good hope of a reflex save, better hope you have a good dex. But in that instant your familiar could be killed and you suffer. At low levels is when a familiar is most dangerous to have. But is it worth it?
Gellion 12-22-03, 04:34 AM	:bump:
dulsin 12-22-03, 12:45 PM	In my game a familiar gives the caster a bonus spell. Having an extra spellat your top level is a big increase in caster power and it makes the wizard VERY protective of their familiars not wanting to risk them in battle or dangerous scouting missions.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-22-03, 08:16 PM	Originally posted by dulsin In my game a familiar gives the caster a bonus spell. Having an extra spellat your top level is a big increase in caster power and it makes the wizard VERY protective of their familiars not wanting to risk them in battle or dangerous scouting missions. Now that sounds like a good idea.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-27-03, 04:40 PM	:bump:
Frank the Vandal 12-27-03, 05:21 PM	Ok look at it like this. Lets say a 3rd level Wizard with 15 hp has a familiar. The familiar has 7 hp. You get hit with a fireball. All the mage would have to do is do at least 14 points of damage with that fireball to kill your familiar even with evasion and making the saving throw. A Wizard really doesn't have that good hope of a reflex save, better hope you have a good dex. But in that instant your familiar could be killed and you suffer. At low levels is when a familiar is most dangerous to have. But is it worth it? The familiar has Improved Evasion. So if it makes it's save, it doesn't take damage at all. If it fails the save, it's disabled (not really dead yet), and in those cases, it's master is in about the same condition even if he succeeded at the save. With Improved Evasion, the master will always die sooner from most area spells than the familiar (except for the one HP difference from rounding down). Most monsters won't target the familiar since it isn't as much of a threat.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-27-03, 05:32 PM	Originally posted by Frank the Vandal The familiar has Improved Evasion. So if it makes it's save, it doesn't take damage at all. If it fails the save, it's disabled (not really dead yet), and in those cases, it's master is in about the same condition even if he succeeded at the save. With Improved Evasion, the master will always die sooner from most area spells than the familiar (except for the one HP difference from rounding down). Most monsters won't target the familiar since it isn't as much of a threat. But remember this. If you have a familiar sleeping in your pocket, there is no Improved Evasion. That ability isn't automatic unless you have room to maneauver. Also it has half your HP and a spellcasters sin't very high.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-27-03, 08:47 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek But remember this. If you have a familiar sleeping in your pocket, there is no Improved Evasion. That ability isn't automatic unless you have room to maneauver. Also it has half your HP and a spellcasters sin't very high. actually, a familiar would be SAFER in a spellcaster's pocket than wondering around the caster, area spell or no. Saying otherwise would be wrong, otherwise, the same would be true for everything else the caster carries. That is, a familiar, like anything else a wizard carries, wouldn't be under any threat unless the caster rolls a 1 on a reflex save vs. an area spell or suffers the effects of a spell that destroys the caster and everything he/she carries.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-27-03, 09:09 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels actually, a familiar would be SAFER in a spellcaster's pocket than wondering around the caster, area spell or no. Saying otherwise would be wrong, otherwise, the same would be true for everything else the caster carries. That is, a familiar, like anything else a wizard carries, wouldn't be under any threat unless the caster rolls a 1 on a reflex save vs. an area spell or suffers the effects of a spell that destroys the caster and everything he/she carries. Thats not the way we play. If a spellcaster has his familiar sleeping in a front pocket and we get hit head on with a fireball, that familiar will be taking some damage.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-27-03, 09:43 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Thats not the way we play. If a spellcaster has his familiar sleeping in a front pocket and we get hit head on with a fireball, that familiar will be taking some damage. great, but what about everything else that caster is also wearing that happens to be in the path of the very same fireball? Why is the familiar taking damage when the caster's spellbook, spell components, staff, or otherwise isn't taking any damage?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-29-03, 07:10 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels great, but what about everything else that caster is also wearing that happens to be in the path of the very same fireball? Why is the familiar taking damage when the caster's spellbook, spell components, staff, or otherwise isn't taking any damage? Because your familiar is a living creature.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-30-03, 01:30 AM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Because your familiar is a living creature. What difference does that make? It's still an item with hitpoints, hardness (damage reduction), an AC, etc. etc. just like any other item. That is, if familiars are going to take damage, then everything else the wizard is carrying in other pockets should take damage too. Whether or not the object is living or not doesn't make any difference. The only time the stuff the wizard is carrying should take any damage at all is if the wizard rolls a one on his/her save against a spell that does area damage. I mean, it's not like every attack spell is a "Living Creature" Bane weapon-like spell that specifically targets the caster and all living things he/she's carrying. If the monkey familiar takes damage from a fireball, then the wizard's glass items, scrolls, spellbook, and the more flammable items should take damage as well, using that logic.
DiplomaticSorcerer 12-30-03, 02:59 AM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Oh great another foundation :Sigh:...I can almost see it...the arragant CoA is gonna start a flame war with the bad-mouthing Casters of the Arcane Foundation which the argument will be is a rip off of the CoA beacuse its in the class section where it should be in the magic and spells section. The CoA people will say that there foundation is in the classes beacuse it is ment to talk mainly about wizards with references to the sorcs. The CoA people will say that you copied them beacuse your really talking about just magic. This foundation memeber people are gonna counter by saying the CoA DOES talk about Magic items and spells so they should get moved too. And then WizO_Cat steps in and gives both threads a massive *clicky* to lock 'em up. Wow, what an effective debating style. *cough* You seem to be launching into your second page.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-30-03, 09:39 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels What difference does that make? It's still an item with hitpoints, hardness (damage reduction), an AC, etc. etc. just like any other item. That is, if familiars are going to take damage, then everything else the wizard is carrying in other pockets should take damage too. Whether or not the object is living or not doesn't make any difference. The only time the stuff the wizard is carrying should take any damage at all is if the wizard rolls a one on his/her save against a spell that does area damage. I mean, it's not like every attack spell is a "Living Creature" Bane weapon-like spell that specifically targets the caster and all living things he/she's carrying. If the monkey familiar takes damage from a fireball, then the wizard's glass items, scrolls, spellbook, and the more flammable items should take damage as well, using that logic. A familiar isn't an item. A familiar isn't like a book, or a staff. Comparing those a familiar to an item in this sense isn't correct. If you don't count the fire aspect in say a Fireball, you still have the over explosion, the shockwave. Ever see how a grenade works? You can throw it near an object and it may blow it a certain distance away, it will damage it *maybe* but it can't die. Now a grenade next to a living creature, if the shrapnel doesn't kill you, the sudden force from the explosion can, or hurt you very bad.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-30-03, 09:42 PM	Originally posted by DiplomaticSorcerer And then WizO_Cat steps in and gives both threads a massive *clicky* to lock 'em up. Wow, what an effective debating style. *cough* You seem to be launching into your second page. Keep to the topic or don't come back. I have already stated in the entry post. I don't put up with any of that. Anyone continue to bring it here will be turned in to the WiZo's. Thank you.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-30-03, 09:53 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek A familiar isn't an item. A familiar isn't like a book, or a staff. Comparing those a familiar to an item in this sense isn't correct. If you don't count the fire aspect in say a Fireball, you still have the over explosion, the shockwave. Ever see how a grenade works? You can throw it near an object and it may blow it a certain distance away, it will damage it *maybe* but it can't die. Now a grenade next to a living creature, if the shrapnel doesn't kill you, the sudden force from the explosion can, or hurt you very bad. a living, breathing thing or not, its still a thing that can be damaged, just like anything else. it doesn't make any logical sense to me how a familiar can be damaged but nothing else the wizard or sorcerer is carrying can. For instance, lets say... ... A wizard is carrying his familiar in his front pocket and a cluster of scrolls on his belt. According to the logic of the statements you've presented to me, a fireball could kill the familiar but the scrolls would be fine. Also, pure force damages objects just as much as it damages living things, if not moreso, especially thinner or weaker things, such as paper (scrolls, parchments), glass (vials, potion bottles), and other things, like rope, a backpack, clothing, etc. etc. can all be damaged sometimes worse than a familiar, even when only taking force or shrapnel into consideration.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-31-03, 08:06 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels a living, breathing thing or not, its still a thing that can be damaged, just like anything else. it doesn't make any logical sense to me how a familiar can be damaged but nothing else the wizard or sorcerer is carrying can. For instance, lets say... ... A wizard is carrying his familiar in his front pocket and a cluster of scrolls on his belt. According to the logic of the statements you've presented to me, a fireball could kill the familiar but the scrolls would be fine. Also, pure force damages objects just as much as it damages living things, if not moreso, especially thinner or weaker things, such as paper (scrolls, parchments), glass (vials, potion bottles), and other things, like rope, a backpack, clothing, etc. etc. can all be damaged sometimes worse than a familiar, even when only taking force or shrapnel into consideration. I knew you would say that so how about this, if a familiar wasn't prone to being blown away, then why in Tome and Blood you can purchase a protective carrier for your familiar and the familiar pocket spell which grants protection? Also you said earlier that a Familiar gets the same protection you do when you cast a spell, well thats fine and dandy, but they have to remain within 5 feet of you to keep the protections, and once they leave they can't just fly back in and gain them back.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-31-03, 08:42 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I knew you would say that so how about this, if a familiar wasn't prone to being blown away, then why in Tome and Blood you can purchase a protective carrier for your familiar and the familiar pocket spell which grants protection? because no animal does well in a pocket. They might be safe from outside harm, but that doesn't mean anything if the familiar suffocates to death. Besides, the confining space can't be comfortable. There's also the size factor, some familiars just can't fit in a wizard robe pocket. The spell "Familiar Pocket" gives the familiar a) Space b) its own air supply, no matter the condition of the outside air and c) extradimensional space, owls don't fit well inside a cloak's pocket The spell has nothing to do with whether or not the caster gets hit with a spell. (other than dispelling magic, for obvious reasons. interaction with items or spells that also create extradimensional spaces can also be hazardous for the same reason you shouldn't mix a bag of holding and a portable hole.) [quote][b] Also you said earlier that a Familiar gets the same protection you do when you cast a spell, well thats fine and dandy, but they have to remain within 5 feet of you to keep the protections, and once they leave they can't just fly back in and gain them back. So? I never said nor implied that it was fine for them to do that. If the familiar needs the protections, then he/she/it'll have to stay within range (like during the middle of battle) if the protections aren't necessary, then the familiar can move outside of 5 ft and do something else (like scout ahead or something else.)
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-31-03, 08:46 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels So? I never said nor implied that it was fine for them to do that. If the familiar needs the protections, then he/she/it'll have to stay within range (like during the middle of battle) if the protections aren't necessary, then the familiar can move outside of 5 ft and do something else (like scout ahead or something else.) But what about a familiar that flies? A toad or somerhing is fine, but your flying familiars are at a disadvantage.
TheDarkestOfAngels 12-31-03, 09:03 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek But what about a familiar that flies? A toad or somerhing is fine, but your flying familiars are at a disadvantage. um, no they aren't. Flying familiars can stop flying. They aren't at any particular advantage if they're flying out of range of their own protections, particularly if both the wizard and the familiar are inside a dungeon or some other building or something where flying would be difficult, anyway.
Naraboni 12-31-03, 09:29 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek On to another topic if everyone is through with this one. Should casters be able to give up their familiars for something else? I allowed one playing a sorcerer to give up his familiar for one more spell known/spell level. Not unbalancing, really. Now he has advanced some levels and regrets and wants to have a familiar instead.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 01-03-04, 12:44 PM	Originally posted by Naraboni I allowed one playing a sorcerer to give up his familiar for one more spell known/spell level. Not unbalancing, really. Now he has advanced some levels and regrets and wants to have a familiar instead. I have a 13th level character and I have used my familiar only once. He was hit by a major Fireball and failed his save. I have a bat by the way. He was taken to 1 hp, so I keep him in my pack right now. Sometimes he uses his sonar to detect invisible creatures but thats it.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 01-05-04, 07:03 AM	:bump:
aravilar_holistacia 01-25-04, 05:45 PM	:bump: This place is dead. Mwaha. Aravilar Zenith Archmage of Elven High Magic Council of Archmages
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 01-29-04, 10:53 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia :bump: This place is dead. Mwaha. Aravilar Zenith Archmage of Elven High Magic Council of Archmages Not really my man, just been away. And please....keep to the topics, don't bring your crap like that in here.
pjackson 01-30-04, 06:41 AM	Last night I turned myself and my familiar owl invisible. He picked up a piece of cloth and distracted the two clay golems guarding the treasure foom whilst I went in with a portable hole and grabbed all the treasure.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 01-30-04, 07:16 AM	Originally posted by pjackson Last night I turned myself and my familiar owl invisible. He picked up a piece of cloth and distracted the two clay golems guarding the treasure foom whilst I went in with a portable hole and grabbed all the treasure. I don't think invisibility works against golems. I could be wrong, though. But that was a nice distraction though.
KRONOS 01-31-04, 02:00 AM	And please....keep to the topics, don't bring your crap like that in here. :confused: :confused: :confused: What topics? Its been three weeks since the previous post. And exactly what crap are you refering too??
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 01-31-04, 12:00 PM	Originally posted by KRONOS :confused: :confused: :confused: What topics? Its been three weeks since the previous post. And exactly what crap are you refering too?? Your are incorrect. The last two posts were made a few days ago.
DiplomaticSorcerer 01-31-04, 01:11 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Your are incorrect. The last two posts were made a few days ago. He was speaking of the amount of time between your last post(which was, coincidentally, a bump) before Aravilar's post and Aravilar's untimely post. Before he bumped it, this thread was dead. You have Aravilar to thank for reviving your thread. Good job, Aravilar.:rolleyes:
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 01-31-04, 01:32 PM	How about we discuss Wish spells? Should a wish from a luck blade or a ring be the same as the spell?
TheDarkestOfAngels 01-31-04, 02:49 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek How about we discuss Wish spells? Should a wish from a luck blade or a ring be the same as the spell? why shouldn't it? If wish was used in the creation of the item, then the costs associated with it (in the xp to create the item) would include that of the wish spells, just like creating a wish scroll. Also, the higher functions of wish can't be used with such items, such as hte ability to create items, because of hte higher xp cost.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-01-04, 12:38 AM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels why shouldn't it? If wish was used in the creation of the item, then the costs associated with it (in the xp to create the item) would include that of the wish spells, just like creating a wish scroll. Also, the higher functions of wish can't be used with such items, such as hte ability to create items, because of hte higher xp cost. I just think that a Wish spell shouldn't be instantaneous. Since Wishes from items are instant, then they shouldn't be as powerful as a Wish spell cast from a Wizard. Wish has been made way too common.
TheDarkestOfAngels 02-01-04, 02:03 AM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I just think that a Wish spell shouldn't be instantaneous. Since Wishes from items are instant, then they shouldn't be as powerful as a Wish spell cast from a Wizard. Wish has been made way too common. too common? THe cost for instantaneous and a gp free item is double xp cost in addition to the 5k xp cost. that's more than enough to prevent making more than a few items. hardly abusable without serious reprocussions.
KRONOS 02-01-04, 02:18 AM	Your are incorrect. The last two posts were made a few days ago. :uh-huh: Wish, far to common? How much XP does your DM hand out. Casting the spell a mere 4 times costs a whole level by 20th. And as DoA said a heck of a lot more duing item creation. Hardly an abuse magnet. Xun, you have yet to respond to my previous question.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-01-04, 12:45 PM	Originally posted by KRONOS :uh-huh: Wish, far to common? How much XP does your DM hand out. Casting the spell a mere 4 times costs a whole level by 20th. And as DoA said a heck of a lot more duing item creation. Hardly an abuse magnet. Xun, you have yet to respond to my previous question. Well according to a lot of people, people are using Wish like it's nothing to raise their Int for Wizards 30+ by using a Wish. Or a party has a Luck Blade with 5 wishes taking on an enemy Wizard who are throwing wishes back and forth. Hey he's an NPC he isn't worried about losing XP. Wish spells common in my world? H*&* no. I will continue later.
Finwe 02-01-04, 02:55 PM	Not to mention that htey can just spend moeny on some scrolls or a tome....
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-01-04, 07:58 PM	I have gotten my info about this subject from others who have posted on different threads about Wishes. A Wish should be a ritual. In second edition you lost 3 from your strength, you had to have bed rest for 2d4 days and you aged 5 years. Thats the kind of restrictions they should still have to control Wish.
KRONOS 02-01-04, 08:44 PM	I do agree with that. For the most part.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-01-04, 10:47 PM	The Wish spell has been made a little to easy to cast and access.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-02-04, 09:23 PM	And the part about a DM twisting the wording to have a different affect is a great way to do it, teach people to tone down the wishes.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-04-04, 08:59 PM	:bump:
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-07-04, 12:46 AM	Has the Lich become sort of a bore in 3rd edition? It's not as powerful as it was. Whats the deal? Tell me your insights on the Lich, and what you would do to make it better.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-12-04, 11:05 PM	:bump:
Silmarien Aldalome 04-15-04, 12:55 AM	Greetings everyone - great to see you here. It's our new game environment, where you can post IC or otherwise. But - to also think of it here as a "between threads" forum - where several of our threads are going to be about interactions between foundations. we'll also be cutting a Great Council thread - where we all meet to have pow-wows and discuss how the game environment works. If you have any ideas - bring 'em on. warm regards stav
Finwe 04-15-04, 01:39 AM	GRAH!! Smite the Archmage-clones! Aww nuts, now I have to welcome you. Oh wel... ;) Welcome to the new Guild house. You have now met two of your three resident GM's.
Orcy The Green Wonder 04-15-04, 01:56 AM	Originally posted by Finwe GRAH!! Smite the Archmage-clones! Aww nuts, now I have to welcome you. Oh wel... ;) speaking of which... where is the council? Is it moving to the new section? edit: nevermid this... Orcy just saw cats post... should really read them stickies
sculyblast 04-16-04, 08:59 AM	uhum.. this thread is death the last post was 2 months ago...
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 04-16-04, 07:38 PM	Ahh we are back in action I see. Well here is a new theme. I have seen threads that state that Sorcerers are better than Wizards when it comes to metamagic. I think this is incorrect. From what I can tell the Wizard and not the Sorcerer was given extra feats in order to obtain more metamagic. Tell me what you think.
KRONOS 04-19-04, 06:38 PM	Xun' I thought we discussed this topic at lenth on your other wiz vs. sor threads. The sorcerers "apply on the fly" use of metamagic is a HUGE benefit. The wizard must guess as how to apply his metamagic at the start of each day while the spells are being prepared. " Do I really need to empower this fireball? I wonder if I will need an extended invisibility today? Hmmmmm?". And once you make those choices you are stuck with them all day. The scorcerer can decide after the situation presents itself. Which one will help the most, when to use it, how to use it, and if to use it at all. Personally I see the scorcerer as being "better" at metamagic for these reasons. Though this is just my opinion.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-02-04, 11:25 PM	Greetings Kronos Do I really need to empower a fireball? *grins* I ran a fireball at 8th level 2 game sessions ago - as an empowered maximised fireball. If nothing else - this was very satisfying - something about doing nearly 90 points of damage with one spell that made it worth trading an eighth level slot for. Several prestige classes let metamagic run at lower levels too - so - with the right choices - you can have all your spells silent+stilled. XunValDorl of HouseKilsek - threads never die - they just take a rest *smiles* .....I personally like the idea of sorcerers and metamagic for the flexibility. You just never know when you're going to need to quicken that magic missile...... To The Threadkeeper :bow: Would you like to bounce some ideas around about where you'd like to steer the thread? cheers stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-04-04, 08:02 PM	Originally posted by KRONOS Xun' I thought we discussed this topic at lenth on your other wiz vs. sor threads. The sorcerers "apply on the fly" use of metamagic is a HUGE benefit. The wizard must guess as how to apply his metamagic at the start of each day while the spells are being prepared. " Do I really need to empower this fireball? I wonder if I will need an extended invisibility today? Hmmmmm?". And once you make those choices you are stuck with them all day. The scorcerer can decide after the situation presents itself. Which one will help the most, when to use it, how to use it, and if to use it at all. Personally I see the scorcerer as being "better" at metamagic for these reasons. Though this is just my opinion. Well just because the Sorcerer uses metamagic a different way doesn't mean that they are automatically better. Ok the Sorcerer can cast it on the fly, but they have to use a full round action, they don't get quicken spell, and the Wizard gets more feats for metamagic.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-04-04, 10:17 PM	Anyway, on to other things. Let's discuss items of magic, and spells that you out there, have created. Please share some of your ideas with our readers. Thank you
KRONOS 05-05-04, 01:34 AM	Hello Sil I agree that 90 damage with one lvl8 spell is pretty sweet. Were you playing a Wiz or Sor? Hi Xun I did not say that sorcerers were "automatically" better at metamagic. I just gave my reasoning as to why I consider them a better class to play with regards to metamagic. As for the wizards extra feats. I think WotC expects you to take "craft" feats so you can whip up your own gadgets.:) As for magic items. Well I think the most usefull item I created was a "Vestment of Mythic Knowledge". I do not have my books with me but it grants bonuses to spellcraft, knowledge arcana, knowledge religion, knowledge nature, and concentration. It is a very subdued item that I find can help out alot.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-06-04, 08:41 PM	Hoy Thar Kronos! 'twas a Wizard - but - I love the Sorcerer concepts - it's just that I reckon they're a bit nerfed.... sooo *ducks for cover* what I've done in one campaign is, erm, made *all* Arcane spells available to Sorcerers - and erm, *all* Cleric spells available to Clerics - *on demand* As much as this might...gulp....seem, ah, overly generous, it makes for a really fun campaign. What are your thoughts about that? regards stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-06-04, 10:17 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Hoy Thar Kronos! 'twas a Wizard - but - I love the Sorcerer concepts - it's just that I reckon they're a bit nerfed.... sooo *ducks for cover* what I've done in one campaign is, erm, made *all* Arcane spells available to Sorcerers - and erm, *all* Cleric spells available to Clerics - *on demand* As much as this might...gulp....seem, ah, overly generous, it makes for a really fun campaign. What are your thoughts about that? regards stav Sounds pretty good to me. I came up with something similiar. Anyone remember Cadderly Bonaduce? Remember how he gained his spells? The song of Deneir played in his mind which opened the secrets to his spells which he could choose at any time. In my homemade world, I came up with a similiar thing. I gave the cleric's a certain amount of spell points per level. All cleric's would hear the songs of their deity's in their heads, they would then choose spells on the fly, but they could go past their number of spell points per day. Also, I came up a few spells and items that I am going to be posting soon.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-08-04, 12:47 AM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Sounds pretty good to me. I came up with something similiar. Anyone remember Cadderly Bonaduce? Not heard of this dude. Remember how he gained his spells? The song of Deneir played in his mind which opened the secrets to his spells which he could choose at any time. In my homemade world, I came up with a similiar thing. I gave the cleric's a certain amount of spell points per level. All cleric's would hear the songs of their deity's in their heads, they would then choose spells on the fly, but they could go past their number of spell points per day. Yesss - this is *very* flavourful - the "felt Presence Within" sorta thing. It adds a richness to the "life" of a PC. I really like spell-point system - I just think they free up players to get creative. Also, I came up a few spells and items that I am going to be posting soon. :cool: - I've got some too. You first *grins*. Hey peoples - how do you guyz wanna develop this place? IC narrative?, political structure?, Research-interwoven-into Plot Devices? stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-08-04, 10:47 AM	One thing about me is I suddenly coem up with an idea out of the blue and I have to write it down or I will forgot. I came up with a spell called "Spell Sphere", I left the stats for it at work. I also came up with a spell called "Windshield", but alas I left that also. As soon as I get them I will post them, so feel free to post any that you want.
KRONOS 05-10-04, 06:43 PM	Hi Sil(or would you prefer Stav?) what I've done in one campaign is, erm, made *all* Arcane spells available to Sorcerers - and erm, *all* Cleric spells available to Clerics - *on demand* Ha. Funny you mention this idea. I agree that sorcerers are nerfed with regards to not learning every spell they can get thier hands on. It is VERRRRY tempting but I don't do this with sorcerers. However, I have done exactly this with clerics. Almost since day one of 3e. It just makes it more fun to play clerics that way. Now that I see someone else had the same idea as myself it does not seem so unbalancing. Technically you could let sorcerers learn extra spells they get access to, just as a wizard does, and it would not be game breaking. Since it is spells per day that truely determines how effective you can be as a spell caster. Aside from the most appropriate spell, of course. Besides, the way sorcerers cast now it is a essentially a point system with out the points. Good call Stav
Wolfram_and_Hart 05-10-04, 10:39 PM	With my Cleric's in my home world, they had access to all cleric spells, but chose on the fly. But couldn't go beyond their spell points. I also came up with when the Cleric's would sing their songs of their deities, it could affect clerics of opposite alignments.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-11-04, 02:17 AM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek One thing about me is I suddenly coem up with an idea out of the blue and I have to write it down or I will forgot. I came up with a spell called "Spell Sphere", I left the stats for it at work. I also came up with a spell called "Windshield", but alas I left that also. As soon as I get them I will post them, so feel free to post any that you want. Very cool - we'll look forwards. I'll post some of my spells too! And Great Threadkeeper :bow: I'd love for us all to develop a "super-structure" (meta-structure) for the thread...... *grins* Kronos: Stav, Stavros, Sil or Silmarien - whatever makes you most comfortable. Avatar-Sil is comprised of "schizms" anyhowz *grins* - of many identities, including Sil-Marsha, Jan-Marien1&2, Sil-Carol-ian, Sil-lisa-Simpson-ian, Sil-Mr-Burns-ian, Sil-Seven-of-Nine-ian, Sil-Viggo, and Sil-Davey-Jones. They'll surface from time to time... ;) I'm with you Kronos - I like what you've done for the cleric..... Wolfram! Welcome! :bow: ....also came up with when the Cleric's would sing their songs of their deities.... Verrry flavoursome..... - hmm - wonder what would happen if you asked em to role-play it out loud *chuckles* - you'd want your players to have good singing voices.... What kind of Magic is the Foundation about? How broad a view? Are we like Netherese Archmages, Elven High Mages, Clerics, Sorcerers - Ritual Casters - or *all* of the above - and how should we organise the "culture" of the place? warm regards stavros
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-11-04, 11:17 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Very cool - we'll look forwards. I'll post some of my spells too! And Great Threadkeeper :bow: I'd love for us all to develop a "super-structure" (meta-structure) for the thread...... *grins* Kronos: Stav, Stavros, Sil or Silmarien - whatever makes you most comfortable. Avatar-Sil is comprised of "schizms" anyhowz *grins* - of many identities, including Sil-Marsha, Jan-Marien1&2, Sil-Carol-ian, Sil-lisa-Simpson-ian, Sil-Mr-Burns-ian, Sil-Seven-of-Nine-ian, Sil-Viggo, and Sil-Davey-Jones. They'll surface from time to time... ;) I'm with you Kronos - I like what you've done for the cleric..... Wolfram! Welcome! :bow: Verrry flavoursome..... - hmm - wonder what would happen if you asked em to role-play it out loud *chuckles* - you'd want your players to have good singing voices.... What kind of Magic is the Foundation about? How broad a view? Are we like Netherese Archmages, Elven High Mages, Clerics, Sorcerers - Ritual Casters - or *all* of the above - and how should we organise the "culture" of the place? warm regards stavros I'm not really sure yet. I really love the magics of Elven High Magic and New and Ancient Netherese Magic. I was thinking about developing my own system for ancient Netherese magic. Elves in general are my favorite race, these including all sub-races also. I personally feel that elves should have a different form of magic than other races. In my homeworld, it is more difficult to counter a spell between say a Human Mage and an Elven Mage. Elves and Humans for example do not learn magic the same way, they both have different casting and learning techniques. Let me know what you guys think we should focus on, give me your opinions.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-11-04, 11:21 PM	Ok here are two spells and three magic items that I have come up with. They are only beta right now. I will be making corrections later if need be. Spell Sphere: Universal Level: Bard 5, Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V,S Casting Time: See text Range: 10ft/level Target, Effect, or Area: See text Duration: See text Saving Throws: See text Spell Resistance: See Text By casting Spell Sphere, a caster creates a sphere that may hold multiple spells, so that when something is hit with this sphere it has multiple effects happen all at once. All spells placed in the sphere affect an individual at the time of impact, but happen in the order that they were cast. Only a certain number of spell levels can be placed into a spell sphere at one time. You gain 1 spell level for every two caster levels. Example( at 10th level you can have a total of 5 spell levels in a Spell Sphere, that could be 5 first level spells, one second and one third level etc… The max number of spells a Spell Sphere can hold is 9. After a Spell Sphere is created it hovers in place until directed, until it is dismissed or until the Spell Sphere expires. It lasts 1 minute per level. Once the sphere is created the caster then begins filling the sphere with spells. You cast the spells normally, instead of the spells taking affect, they will become absorbed into the sphere. If you go over the maximum capacity, the sphere will explode and the spells will be lost and effect whoever is with in range of the various spells. This also applies if someone attacks the sphere. The sphere can only withstand 1 point per level of the caster. Metamagic spells use up the spells level that they were cast with. A maximized Fireball would not be 3rd, but 6th. Spells that affect only 1 person, or spells that require touch affects the person that the sphere hit, or if the sphere lands near one or more people, then the caster chooses who it affects, spells that are touch attacks use the normal touch attack rolls, melee touch or ranged touch. Individuals who are actually hit with the sphere are automatically hit with any touch attacks. They must be no further than 10ft where the sphere hit. The sphere can also be used to absorb incoming spells, but this is risky. If the sphere absorbs more than it’s limit, then it will explode. Works just like a Staff of the Magi affect, except the sphere can be launched back at the caster, or at someone else. The sphere is controlled by will, but is still a ranged touch attack. Whenever the sphere hits, the individual affected must make separate saving throws for each spell. A spell resistance roll is only, needed to be made once. Also, if the sphere lands near a group of enemies and the creature you chose to hit with a touch attack dies because of another spell before the touch spell has a chance to go off, then the touch spell is wasted. Example of Play: Malhavoc, a 12th level Wizard, and his party are ambushed by Orcs. When it is Malhavoc’s turn he casts Spell Sphere, and places a Hold Person 2nd into the sphere, since he can cast two spells because of his level. Everyone else goes and has their turn. The next round comes and it is Malhavoc’s turn again, Malhavoc then places a Fireball 3rd , and Shocking Grasp total levels are 6. Now the sphere is ready since it has reached it’s capacity due to Malhavoc’s level. As a free action Malhavoc turns the sphere toward an Orc. Malhavoc makes a ranged touch attack against the Orc. The sphere hits, and now the Orc is hit by all spells including the Shocking Grasp because the Sphere itself hit the Orc. The Orc then has to make three saving throws. But, if the Orc fails it’s saving throw with the Hold Person, the orc doesn’t get a saving throw vs the Fireball because he can’t move. The Orc ends up being hit by a Hold Person, Fireball, and a Shocking Grasp spell all at once. All area affect spells still retain their radius. If there are other enemies nearby, then they are affected also. Windshield Wizard/Sorcerer Level: 3rd Duration: 1 rd/level Range: Personal Target: You This spell wreathes you in a spiral of powerful winds that grow stronger as you progress in level. Those that try to attack the caster must make a Reflex saving throw DC 18 if they are size large or smaller. The DC increases by 1 for every 10 mph. Those that fail the save are blown back 20ft and take 1d6 +1 per level. Those that save just take the damage. Windshield also gives those attacking the caster in melee a –3 to their attack rolls because of the wind. The caster also benefits from a Protection from Arrows, and only takes half damage from Breath Weapons. The winds gain an extra 10 mph for every 2 levels gained. The winds start out at 40 mph, it takes one round for the winds to get to their max. The winds also protect the caster by taking only half damage from fire-based attacks. All melee, spells and ranged attacks made by you are normal. Earring of Windfury: Arrows (only; not crossbow bolts, for instance) fired by archers who wear this earring inflict normal damage, but also strike targets with a Gust of Wind. Such arrows can be fired unhindered under the effects of natural or magical storms. Such a missile flies through the air unaffected by strong winds, heavy rain or any other environmental affect that might deter it’s flight. Lenses of Eagle’s Sight: These dark crystal lenses enhances the wearer’s eyesight for better range and better accuracy when using a bow. The lenses give the wearer a +3 to hit with any bow, and increases the max range by 20ft. The arms of the glasses loop around the ears enabling them to stay on, and be very secure. Gloves of Folgrim’s Flurry: These gloves enables an arrow, each time fired from a bow, to separate into three. When the enchanted arrow is fired, two other arrows appear along side it in mid-flight. This allows the attacker to make three separate attack rolls on the target of the original arrow. After inflicting their damage, all three arrows disappear. The two additional arrows created confer no magical bonus to the archer’s attack or damage, unless the wearer is trying to bypass damage reduction. No damage bonus, or to hit bonus is applied, except for dex modifier to hit. (Example): A creature with damage reduction 3/ etc.. is hit if the arrow is at least plus three, coming from an arcane archer who is high enough level, the normal damage of the arrow itself 1d6 or 1d8 is applied, no damage bonus is applied, and no to hit bonus was applied to the separated arrows, except for dex modifier, but the first is done normally.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-14-04, 11:11 PM	:bump:
Silmarien Aldalome 05-14-04, 11:45 PM	That Spell Sphere ROCKS! It reminds me a bit of Heavy Magic in Faerunian Materials. Here's one of mine - it needs more flavour text. Spell Name : Competence Transmutation Magic Type : Transmutation Level : Sor/Wiz 4 Components : VSM Casting Time : 1 Action Range : Touch Target : One Creature Duration : 1 Hour/Level Savings Throw : Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance : Yes Upon activation of the spell, you create a magical conversion matrix that permits a transmutation of a primary save capability into a secondary save area. Transmutations include the conversion of Will save bonuses into Fortitude saves or into Reflex savings throws. However, the primary save capability need not be a Will save (as is the case for wizards, sorcerers and clerics) but can be Reflex (rogues) or Fortitude (fighting classes). At the point of casting the spell, the spell caster must nominate the kind of transmutation to take effect. The first savings throw made by the character that is designated as a transmutation save, can be made with the full bonuses of the primary savings throw capability. For example, Silmarien casts a Competence Transmutation and designates a Will-Fortitude transmutation as the spell variant at casting. She also places a Competence Transmutation on Bose and designates a Reflex-Will transmutation as the spell variant for her companion. The adventurers encounter a Hasted evil wizard, who casts a Disintegrate spell at Silmarien, and a Suggestion spell on Bose as his first melee Action. Silmarien gets to make her Fortitude save against Disintegration as she would make her Will save at the same level. Similarly, Bose gets to make his Will save, with the Reflex save bonuses accrued by a Rogue of equal level. The spell does not affect savings throws in the unaffected areas, so characters get to keep their primary save capability whilst under the influence of Competence Transmutation. DM's Notes - The spell's effect mimics only one of the five effects of Tenser's Transformation (2d8 to strength, dexterity and constitution; 1d6 temporary hit points per level of wizard; multiple melee attacks as per warrior classes and revised savings throws). Tenser's Transformation is a sixth level spell. - The game-balance principles that this spell draws on are any and all rules that permit the cross-class sharing of strengths and weaknesses. For example, spell casting capacity to non-spell casters through various devices (helm of teleportation), spells that imitate the spell-like effects of monsters (gaseous form, ethereal jaunt). - Other precedents from Player's Handbook include True Strike (a first level spell that gives +20 on one attack), Stone Skin (which effectively yields 100 hit points to a recipient). - It consumes a spell slot. - Several classes have all three primary save capacities set to maximum. For example, the Monk character class. - Spells and effects that draw on Will or Reflex Saves do not generally have lethal effects. Lethal effects are predominantly subsumed by spells (disintegrate) and spell like effects (petrification) and non spell like effects (poison, disease) that require a Fortitude save.
anglar 05-14-04, 11:59 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek When it is Malhavoc’s turn he casts Spell Sphere, and places a Hold Person 2nd into the sphere, since he can cast two spells because of his level. I'm presuming this is a house rule you are using to allow a cater to cast two spells in one round without one of them being quickened.
anglar 05-15-04, 12:19 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Hoy Thar Kronos! 'twas a Wizard - but - I love the Sorcerer concepts - it's just that I reckon they're a bit nerfed.... sooo *ducks for cover* what I've done in one campaign is, erm, made *all* Arcane spells available to Sorcerers - and erm, *all* Cleric spells available to Clerics - *on demand* As much as this might...gulp....seem, ah, overly generous, it makes for a really fun campaign. What are your thoughts about that? regards stav As much as I love you, "overly generous" is understating things. "Hi! I can cast any arcane spell of whatever level I'm capable of casting without forethought as to what I might need today. Something arises and I WILL have the spell just right for it. You can call me Ava . . . errr, I mean Mystra." I like the spell point system. We use it in my 2E game and I'm working on one for 3E. I want it to be a little more than "I trade a 3rd and a 4th worth of point for a 7th level."
Silmarien Aldalome 05-15-04, 12:30 AM	*chuckles* - there's nothing like delimiting magic to inspire (erm, or provoke) discussion about the pros and cons of this decision. *grins* And, there's nothing more tiring to a wizard PC than having a spell memorised (e.g. comprehend languages) when what you really need is a Tenser's Floating Disc (what's it called in the 3.5). Speaking personally only, I prefer Mystryl's chaotic variation of the Weave to Mystra's Bans (introduced, to accommodate D&D no doubt). Anyhowz - what do people think? Bring it on. Enjoy the disagreement - just remember though - I always need a Lembas cookie when I'm being disagreed with *smiles+winks* stav
Wolfram_and_Hart 05-15-04, 11:35 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome That Spell Sphere ROCKS! It reminds me a bit of Heavy Magic in Faerunian Materials. Here's one of mine - it needs more flavour text. Spell Name : Competence Transmutation Magic Type : Transmutation Level : Sor/Wiz 4 Components : VSM Casting Time : 1 Action Range : Touch Target : One Creature Duration : 1 Hour/Level Savings Throw : Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance : Yes Upon activation of the spell, you create a magical conversion matrix that permits a transmutation of a primary save capability into a secondary save area. Transmutations include the conversion of Will save bonuses into Fortitude saves or into Reflex savings throws. However, the primary save capability need not be a Will save (as is the case for wizards, sorcerers and clerics) but can be Reflex (rogues) or Fortitude (fighting classes). At the point of casting the spell, the spell caster must nominate the kind of transmutation to take effect. The first savings throw made by the character that is designated as a transmutation save, can be made with the full bonuses of the primary savings throw capability. For example, Silmarien casts a Competence Transmutation and designates a Will-Fortitude transmutation as the spell variant at casting. She also places a Competence Transmutation on Bose and designates a Reflex-Will transmutation as the spell variant for her companion. The adventurers encounter a Hasted evil wizard, who casts a Disintegrate spell at Silmarien, and a Suggestion spell on Bose as his first melee Action. Silmarien gets to make her Fortitude save against Disintegration as she would make her Will save at the same level. Similarly, Bose gets to make his Will save, with the Reflex save bonuses accrued by a Rogue of equal level. The spell does not affect savings throws in the unaffected areas, so characters get to keep their primary save capability whilst under the influence of Competence Transmutation. DM's Notes - The spell's effect mimics only one of the five effects of Tenser's Transformation (2d8 to strength, dexterity and constitution; 1d6 temporary hit points per level of wizard; multiple melee attacks as per warrior classes and revised savings throws). Tenser's Transformation is a sixth level spell. - The game-balance principles that this spell draws on are any and all rules that permit the cross-class sharing of strengths and weaknesses. For example, spell casting capacity to non-spell casters through various devices (helm of teleportation), spells that imitate the spell-like effects of monsters (gaseous form, ethereal jaunt). - Other precedents from Player's Handbook include True Strike (a first level spell that gives +20 on one attack), Stone Skin (which effectively yields 100 hit points to a recipient). - It consumes a spell slot. - Several classes have all three primary save capacities set to maximum. For example, the Monk character class. - Spells and effects that draw on Will or Reflex Saves do not generally have lethal effects. Lethal effects are predominantly subsumed by spells (disintegrate) and spell like effects (petrification) and non spell like effects (poison, disease) that require a Fortitude save. Your spell matrix kicks a$%.The spell you created will come in handy. I also like the heavy magic of Mystryl. Lets face it, Elven High Magic and Old Netherese Magic just rocks!!
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-15-04, 11:59 AM	Originally posted by anglar As much as I love you, "overly generous" is understating things. "Hi! I can cast any arcane spell of whatever level I'm capable of casting without forethought as to what I might need today. Something arises and I WILL have the spell just right for it. You can call me Ava . . . errr, I mean Mystra." I like the spell point system. We use it in my 2E game and I'm working on one for 3E. I want it to be a little more than "I trade a 3rd and a 4th worth of point for a 7th level." Laughs so hard at the ava joke he pees pance. Than goes off to fetch or rather discover what a Waybread Cookie is for Silm... :P Well I daresay Master Xun that this foundation has come much further then I have excpected. Prehaps with the doors already opened I...might just join along. -Frosty
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-15-04, 04:57 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome That Spell Sphere ROCKS! It reminds me a bit of Heavy Magic in Faerunian Materials. Here's one of mine - it needs more flavour text. Spell Name : Competence Transmutation Magic Type : Transmutation Level : Sor/Wiz 4 Components : VSM Casting Time : 1 Action Range : Touch Target : One Creature Duration : 1 Hour/Level Savings Throw : Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance : Yes Upon activation of the spell, you create a magical conversion matrix that permits a transmutation of a primary save capability into a secondary save area. Transmutations include the conversion of Will save bonuses into Fortitude saves or into Reflex savings throws. However, the primary save capability need not be a Will save (as is the case for wizards, sorcerers and clerics) but can be Reflex (rogues) or Fortitude (fighting classes). At the point of casting the spell, the spell caster must nominate the kind of transmutation to take effect. The first savings throw made by the character that is designated as a transmutation save, can be made with the full bonuses of the primary savings throw capability. For example, Silmarien casts a Competence Transmutation and designates a Will-Fortitude transmutation as the spell variant at casting. She also places a Competence Transmutation on Bose and designates a Reflex-Will transmutation as the spell variant for her companion. The adventurers encounter a Hasted evil wizard, who casts a Disintegrate spell at Silmarien, and a Suggestion spell on Bose as his first melee Action. Silmarien gets to make her Fortitude save against Disintegration as she would make her Will save at the same level. Similarly, Bose gets to make his Will save, with the Reflex save bonuses accrued by a Rogue of equal level. The spell does not affect savings throws in the unaffected areas, so characters get to keep their primary save capability whilst under the influence of Competence Transmutation. DM's Notes - The spell's effect mimics only one of the five effects of Tenser's Transformation (2d8 to strength, dexterity and constitution; 1d6 temporary hit points per level of wizard; multiple melee attacks as per warrior classes and revised savings throws). Tenser's Transformation is a sixth level spell. - The game-balance principles that this spell draws on are any and all rules that permit the cross-class sharing of strengths and weaknesses. For example, spell casting capacity to non-spell casters through various devices (helm of teleportation), spells that imitate the spell-like effects of monsters (gaseous form, ethereal jaunt). - Other precedents from Player's Handbook include True Strike (a first level spell that gives +20 on one attack), Stone Skin (which effectively yields 100 hit points to a recipient). - It consumes a spell slot. - Several classes have all three primary save capacities set to maximum. For example, the Monk character class. - Spells and effects that draw on Will or Reflex Saves do not generally have lethal effects. Lethal effects are predominantly subsumed by spells (disintegrate) and spell like effects (petrification) and non spell like effects (poison, disease) that require a Fortitude save. Sil, I really love this spell that you have come up with. I think it kicks butt. I myself enjoy the strong magic of Elven High Magic and the Old magic of Netheril. Mystryl, in my opinon, was a better goddess than Mystra.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-15-04, 04:59 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Laughs so hard at the ava joke he pees pance. Than goes off to fetch or rather discover what a Waybread Cookie is for Silm... :P Well I daresay Master Xun that this foundation has come much further then I have excpected. Prehaps with the doors already opened I...might just join along. -Frosty Thank You Frostbite. You are more than welcome to join. If you do join, please put the foundation in your saying, description, etc... saying that you are a member. If people see the link, they may want to go to it and contribute.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-15-04, 10:30 PM	Thanks for the kind welcome Xun - Honerably I shall put the link in my sig shortly. Now I would like to share a personal spell with the rest of you. I dont think I ever even bothered to ask my dm to allow me to use it...but I have used it once or twice Dming with an Evil bad guy :) Spell Name : Anti-Insubordination Magic Type : Transmutation Level : Epic Bard Components : VSM Xp Casting Time : 1 Day Range : Sight Target : 100 +1 creature per lvl Duration : Perm Savings Throw : Will Negates Spell Resistance : Yes DC: 50 With Anti-Insubordination your average day evil Bard may make loyal his often unloyal henchmen. Far to many times this post-courrption bard has used his power of charasma and enchantments to sway henchmen to flee or join his side. Never again however will such a thing happen with anti-insubordination. If this spell is casted open a follower then it makes the follower totally ignorant of any and all skills and spells used to affect there loyalty. A fighter would convince a zombie and a golem to team up and kill a lich with him before your follower would be affected by even the strongest of enchantment magiks. Alignment, memory and other things unrelated to loyalty are not protected by this spell XP: 100 (per casting) A tad bit rigged but usefull in some games none the less ;) -Frosty
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-16-04, 11:20 AM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Thanks for the kind welcome Xun - Honerably I shall put the link in my sig shortly. Now I would like to share a personal spell with the rest of you. I dont think I ever even bothered to ask my dm to allow me to use it...but I have used it once or twice Dming with an Evil bad guy :) Spell Name : Anti-Insubordination Magic Type : Transmutation Level : Epic Bard Components : VSM Xp Casting Time : 1 Day Range : Sight Target : 100 +1 creature per lvl Duration : Perm Savings Throw : Will Negates Spell Resistance : Yes DC: 50 With Anti-Insubordination your average day evil Bard may make loyal his often unloyal henchmen. Far to many times this post-courrption bard has used his power of charasma and enchantments to sway henchmen to flee or join his side. Never again however will such a thing happen with anti-insubordination. If this spell is casted open a follower then it makes the follower totally ignorant of any and all skills and spells used to affect there loyalty. A fighter would convince a zombie and a golem to team up and kill a lich with him before your follower would be affected by even the strongest of enchantment magiks. Alignment, memory and other things unrelated to loyalty are not protected by this spell XP: 100 (per casting) A tad bit rigged but usefull in some games none the less ;) -Frosty Your welcome...Sounds pretty cool to me.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-16-04, 07:53 PM	Nice SPELL Frosty. [GM-Voice]Hellllooo there X. OK - I need you to modify your opening post a little bit some time in the next two weeks. Reason: we need a rationale for Casters of the Arcane - that *distinguishes us* a little bit more clearly from the Council of Archmages. You can do this in any of several ways, e.g.: 1. Add an Role Play dimension and background theme. 2. Tailor the Arcane to a "style" of magic (e.g. Elven High Magic, Netherese Researchers, Racially-Disctinctive magic. 3. Make it about Research & Development of new game rules, magical mythology, or variations to existing magic. I love this Foundation - and I would like for Frosty, myself and the others to work with you to make this a great success. Also - if you can think of a way that [b]multi-arcane threads hang together in a multi-thread concept, let us know here. E.g. This Arcane Order is "good" and the other is "evil" and the two are part of a joined-game concept.[/GM-Voice] Does this make sense? Am I sounding uptight? Would you like to add anything? stav
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-17-04, 08:33 PM	Xun - Hey Sorry man I think I got us both in a little trouble. Sil - Whatever isit you need me to do I will. Xun you seem...gentle, civil yet with a strong will. You should take somthing like a rolelpaying idea where you design spells and magic items for the sake of protecting the universe. Prehaps many of your more "able-bodied" men will take up the actuall sport of "evil-hunting" -Frosty
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-17-04, 09:31 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Nice SPELL Frosty. [GM-Voice]Hellllooo there X. OK - I need you to modify your opening post a little bit some time in the next two weeks. Reason: we need a rationale for Casters of the Arcane - that *distinguishes us* a little bit more clearly from the Council of Archmages. You can do this in any of several ways, e.g.: 1. Add an Role Play dimension and background theme. 2. Tailor the Arcane to a "style" of magic (e.g. Elven High Magic, Netherese Researchers, Racially-Disctinctive magic. 3. Make it about Research & Development of new game rules, magical mythology, or variations to existing magic. I love this Foundation - and I would like for Frosty, myself and the others to work with you to make this a great success. Also - if you can think of a way that [b]multi-arcane threads hang together in a multi-thread concept, let us know here. E.g. This Arcane Order is "good" and the other is "evil" and the two are part of a joined-game concept.[/GM-Voice] Does this make sense? Am I sounding uptight? Would you like to add anything? stav I understand what you re saying, but here is what I think. I really don't want to do the role-playing thing because I want to talk about when new books come out and such. Sure you can say well I am malhavoc and I am a Wizard so so. But no role-playing battles and such. That could get out of hand. I would like to keep the discussion towards all arcane methods. I want people to bring up more focused discussions about magic such as elven high magic etc... But, I don't the foundation limited by one topic all the time. I am not trying to be like any other foundation. Here there are no ranks. This is an Equal Foundation Provider. I want to be able to discuss about everything to do with the arcane. If you don't agree with me then I understand.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-17-04, 09:33 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Xun - Hey Sorry man I think I got us both in a little trouble. Xun you seem...gentle, civil yet with a strong will. You should take somthing like a rolelpaying idea where you design spells and magic items for the sake of protecting the universe. Prehaps many of your more "able-bodied" men will take up the actuall sport of "evil-hunting" -Frosty Got us in trouble how? What made you say those things about me. I am curious.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-17-04, 09:44 PM	Xan - it's all cool - noone's in any 'trouble'. *smiles+hands you cookie* OK - no need to make Role Play here - that's not a problem at all. But - can we discuss how we are *different* to Coucil of Archmages. I'd love to work with you to define our idenity here as *distinct*. You're our Great Threakeeper - what are you thoughts? Remember - we're *with you* on this not *against you* warm regards stav
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-17-04, 10:18 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Got us in trouble how? What made you say those things about me. I am curious. I dident snitch nobody about by saying nothing. All I did was tipped Sil the fact that there were three near-identical foundations :cool: I never said which ones came first or which I think should come down, then I would be talking about you. :D -Frosty
Silmarien Aldalome 05-17-04, 10:31 PM	Thanx Frosty. Now - Xan my friend :) [Friendly GM-Advice]...the best defence of your foundation - is to work with Frosty and I and the other posters - to explore how we are "distinctive" to the other magicy ones. I hear what you are saying - you'd like to discus EHM, all kinds of magic and so on - so - easy! Let's determine "how" to do this in a way which makes us distinctive. :)[/Friendly GM-Advice] Onwards and upwards Archwizards! Chin up! Smiles - none of this frown stuff..... Your Servant Stav
thasis 05-17-04, 10:45 PM	Can I join because I always play as a wizard or sorcerer. Also just wondering theres no real limit on the amount of guilds you can join right.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-17-04, 11:19 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Thanx Frosty. Now - Xan my friend :) [Friendly GM-Advice]...the best defence of your foundation - is to work with Frosty and I and the other posters - to explore how we are "distinctive" to the other magicy ones. I hear what you are saying - you'd like to discus EHM, all kinds of magic and so on - so - easy! Let's determine "how" to do this in a way which makes us distinctive. :)[/Friendly GM-Advice] Onwards and upwards Archwizards! Chin up! Smiles - none of this frown stuff..... Your Servant Stav That sounds cool. Let me think a little while and come up with some things. I will check out other threads to make sure we don't do the same thing. If you think of some stuff let me know. I just don't want to be stuck with a limted theme. Arcane magic yes, but not a whole foundation on just one aspect...You get my drift.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-18-04, 03:54 PM	Originally posted by thasis Can I join because I always play as a wizard or sorcerer. Also just wondering theres no real limit on the amount of guilds you can join right. Yes you can join No there is limit to the guides you can join, just see the foundation faq ;). -Frosty
Silmarien Aldalome 05-18-04, 06:28 PM	Exxcceellent - welcome again. Hi There Frosty + Xun - i've been enjoying giving it some thought, guyz (Foundation ideas) - and when I've got more focussed ideas - I'll post them here. But Xun - you're our Threadkeeper - and your ideas are really important to me. I'll look forwards to them. Who's gunna start a topic? warm regards stav Hoy Thar Thasis - no limit at all - in fact the more the merrier. I've been slowly encouraging people to see "all threads" as part of a collective of community. To help each other out. I'm with you! stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-18-04, 06:45 PM	I don't know if any of you have seen the PrC for the Netherese Arcanist, but after looking over it, I wasn't too overly impressed. I thought there would be a lot more to the greatest and most powerful casters of Faerun's time. Tell me what you think.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-18-04, 06:53 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I don't know if any of you have seen the PrC for the Netherese Arcanist, but after looking over it, I wasn't too overly impressed. I thought there would be a lot more to the greatest and most powerful casters of Faerun's time. Tell me what you think. Oh *god yes* - let's develop the Netherese Arcanist. I absolutely *love Faerunian materials* - I'd like to add the following to the list - Shadow Weave materials - Explore Karsus Avatar - and 12+ level magic. - Whole Magic concepts - Plot Devices (not RP though) to resolve some of the inconsistencies in the magical materials. - Magical time travel concepts. I've had an idea about what happened to the Nether Scrolls (the missing copies).
thasis 05-18-04, 10:35 PM	If I knew a word you were talking about I would be putting a proper comment in but sice I don't I'll just say "I understand" and nod my head well your words go through one ear out the other.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-18-04, 10:49 PM	thasis - you have great spirits - and a healthy sense of humour too! my apologies for assuming Lore bases. Faerun - is a D&D setting thing. In this place (on the planet Toril) there is this thing called "The Weave" - which is kinda "everywhere and nowhere" - and connected to a Deity, named Mystra. Mystra's Weave - allows mortals to cast spells on Toril. In places where the Weave is damaged - spells can't be cast. The Shadow Weave - is in the Space Between Weave strands - or the Shadow cast by the Weave - and the evil goddess Shar controls it. Whole Magic is a bit of an enigma - some say it is the union of weave and shadow weave, others - that it is a strange "semi physical" form of pure magic, that you can paint on things. The Netherese - were an amazing race of human on Toril. These folk developed new ways of using magic. An "Netherese Arcanist" was sorta between a sorcerer and a wizard. The Netherese invented the magical device called the Mythallar - which was a 150 sphere - that was kinda like a "battery" - and you could make magical items in its environment without spending experience points. Mythallar also levitated whole Netherese cities. So, their empire, at its prime - was comprised of many floating cities. A Netherese dude called Karsus - tried to "subsume" the Goddess of Magic - and he made a terrible mistake, resulting in the "Moment of No Magic" - when all the Netherese cities tumbled to the ground in ruins. So....hm...Xun or Frosty - who would like to outline the differences between an Arcanist and normal spell caster - so that Thasis can join in with us to build the Netherese Arcanist???? Stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-18-04, 11:39 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome thasis - you have great spirits - and a healthy sense of humour too! my apologies for assuming Lore bases. Faerun - is a D&D setting thing. In this place (on the planet Toril) there is this thing called "The Weave" - which is kinda "everywhere and nowhere" - and connected to a Deity, named Mystra. Mystra's Weave - allows mortals to cast spells on Toril. In places where the Weave is damaged - spells can't be cast. The Shadow Weave - is in the Space Between Weave strands - or the Shadow cast by the Weave - and the evil goddess Shar controls it. Whole Magic is a bit of an enigma - some say it is the union of weave and shadow weave, others - that it is a strange "semi physical" form of pure magic, that you can paint on things. The Netherese - were an amazing race of human on Toril. These folk developed new ways of using magic. An "Netherese Arcanist" was sorta between a sorcerer and a wizard. The Netherese invented the magical device called the Mythallar - which was a 150 sphere - that was kinda like a "battery" - and you could make magical items in its environment without spending experience points. Mythallar also levitated whole Netherese cities. So, their empire, at its prime - was comprised of many floating cities. A Netherese dude called Karsus - tried to "subsume" the Goddess of Magic - and he made a terrible mistake, resulting in the "Moment of No Magic" - when all the Netherese cities tumbled to the ground in ruins. So....hm...Xun or Frosty - who would like to outline the differences between an Arcanist and normal spell caster - so that Thasis can join in with us to build the Netherese Arcanist???? Stav Rockin....I can't stay long right now. but I will be back soon. Creating a rockin Netherese Arcanist is going to be so cool.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-19-04, 02:36 AM	To get us going: From Netheril--Empire of Magic The scrolls appeared to be divided into five sections of 10 scrolls each. Just like the scrolls themselves, however, this fivepart organization could have disappeared after enough study. magic wasn’t just sitting there to be read like a normal scroll. Instead, they were to be studied and pored over, the reader searching for new pieces of magical lore. They were unable to be duplicated by any means, and the Netherese kept them as safe as they could until finally losing the last scroll. Netherese never saw the scrolls reform themselves). The nether scrolls were unlike normal scrolls in that their The nether scrolls were immune to all magical effects, including disintegration spells and other harmful magic. They could be hammered into an unrecognizable mass, however, as was demonstrated a few times in Netheril’s long history. Eventually, the magic of the nether scrolls would recombine lost pieces of itself, but the time required for such a rebirth was long (it’s unknown if it has reformed currently, but the tion, there never seemed to be an end to the amount of information contained on a single scroll. As one developed in the mystical arts and re-read the scrolls, new passages and spells appeared. weaved its way across the surface, turning a quick-reading page The small size of each scroll belied its content: Magic of text into a tome that would take months to finish. In addi- What was known about the nether scrolls was that they appeared as sheets of gold and platinum. They were covered with magical runes and sigils that shimmered upon their surface, Anyone who saw them immediately knew that they contained magical power and wisdom. Toril. Others believe that they were a gift from Mystryl, the goddess of magic. Other beliefs hold that the nether scrolls are of unworldly origin, perhaps from the outer planes or from some crystal sphere beyond Realmspace. It’s unknown who created the nether scrolls. Some believed that they were gifts left by the Creator Races to the humans of This set of 50 scrolls was the foundation for magic use by the Netherese, perhaps by all of the sentient races that developed on Faerûn. Some races, like the elves, brought their own magic with them when they migrated to Toril‚ and it’s doubtful that their style of magic use was influenced much by the nether scrolls. But for the Netherese, their ability to use magic and the wisdom contained within the nether scrolls were forever entwined.
TheDarkestOfAngels 05-19-04, 03:16 AM	The netherese arcanist certainly looks cool. seems like a real awesome PrC for an ancient, netherese lich-mage or vampire (I happen to like vampires more than liches... so sue me) or something. perfect BBEG material. The PrC just reaks of ancient, powerful magic.
KRONOS 05-19-04, 03:37 AM	Hello everyone Welcome Thasis. Posted by Silcan we discuss how we are *different* to Coucil of Archmages. I'd love to work with you to define our idenity here as *distinct*. Sure. As a former member I can assure you that this will be totally different. We will not sit around bickering about who has what title and why they feel they deserve said title. :D As for the Netherese Arcanist, well I agree with Xun that it is not exciting power wise. But Darkest of Angels does make a good point about lots of flavor with the right character. Seems to me that Larloch should have at least a few levels of this class. again posted by Sil Magical time travel concepts. I've had an idea about what happened to the Nether Scrolls (the missing copies). Hmm. I do believe that you have the floor friend. I await your theories on these ever so interesting items. Hey DoA, have you seen how they changed the Incantrix yet? As a fellow fan of the class I was wondering what you thought of the new abilities? Later
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-19-04, 03:55 PM	Lets Inital our creations : NA...I am sure to mispell them a thousand times in a million different ways if i have to write out the whole thing... Anyways I say we should have two Prcs - One for apprentances and one for true Arcanists. True Arcanists would have terrable power...unimaginable power not playable unless pretty much you have extended life. Secondly an apprentice should be for those Nethrins who want to have some power but not dedicate themselves to it...prehaps those that take the true prc can exchange levels? -Frosty
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-19-04, 11:03 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Lets Inital our creations : NA...I am sure to mispell them a thousand times in a million different ways if i have to write out the whole thing... Anyways I say we should have two Prcs - One for apprentances and one for true Arcanists. True Arcanists would have terrable power...unimaginable power not playable unless pretty much you have extended life. Secondly an apprentice should be for those Nethrins who want to have some power but not dedicate themselves to it...prehaps those that take the true prc can exchange levels? -Frosty Sounds cool to me...I think the true arcanist should be in the epic stuff.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-19-04, 11:16 PM	This is off topic but.....I can't believe Angel has gone off the air. This really blows "screams"!!!!!
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-19-04, 11:17 PM	Ok...thats better. Anyway, I have already begun the Netherese Arcanist class. I will show you when I am done.
TheDarkestOfAngels 05-20-04, 12:28 AM	Originally posted by KRONOS Hey DoA, have you seen how they changed the Incantrix yet? As a fellow fan of the class I was wondering what you thought of the new abilities? Later at first, I was dissapointed because the class had lost its immunity to death FX/Energy drain and the specialization in abjuration (Because I liked having my sorceress with 7 slots at each level.) But then I started to make the conversion for my sorceress. Although specialization went the way of the dodo and I still had to have a barred school, I'm sure my chaotic good 1/2 celestial sun elf of Mystra could easily rid herself of necromancy. No problem there. Otherwise, the incantrix lost all the ethereal crap for some really cool metamagic-related powers and a forth bonus MM feat. I can't really say that the new incantrix is better, per se, but it isn't worse. Which is a great thing (because it was powerful to begin with). It's especially good that all the special powers now have a common theme, which the 3e PrC lacked. I'll still miss drain item and hardy spirit, though. though snatch spell and seize concentration will do quite nicely. :D all in all, I like the new changes quite well. EDIT: I like it especially since I don't have to use the Education feat to qualify anymore if I'm a sorcerer, since that PrC is pretty much -the- sorcerer prestige class. Originally Posted By Xundalvorl of House Kilsek This is off topic but.....I can't believe Angel has gone off the air. This really blows "screams"!!!!! I've been going off and on for brief periods of time in the past few days. If y'all are going to fix the Netherese Arcanist, might I suggest coming up with an overall objective first? Specifically, determining how it's broken, what needs fixing, and how to go about fixing it. Personally, I don't think it needs any such repair. It's not "uber" per se, but it is good. My only beef with it (which I just now noticed) is it has no spell progression. Though, I guess it's tolerable since it's now remarkably easy to get bonuses to caster level from items and such. especially since the character would already be epic.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-20-04, 01:11 AM	Great to see everyone here!!! OK - I'll take the invite to tease out the difference between Netherese and normal magic. OK - some Lore on Netherese Arcanists. I'm not sure I'd be concerned about them being underpowered.....at least not when we're done with them lads'n'ladies *grins evilly* Xun - can't wait to see it!!! My understanding on the differences between Netherese Arcanists and Normal wizardry - to help us with devloping the PrC - correct me if I'm wrong peoples :) In Faerunian Lore, it was the Elves who first taught the Netherese fishing folk magic. The Elven spell casting system (the Arcane system - not Elven High Magic), is what everyone will be familiar with. Just think of the Players Handbook here for guidance. When the Netherese founded Netheril and discovered the Nether Scrolls in the ruins of Aryvandaar (watch my spelling here) - this lead to a series of amazing discoveries. The Netherese discovered that they could specialise, and limit the amount of time they spent to learn spells. They were able to cast spells without somatic components (sorta like metamagic). To offset this, they could memorise fewer spells per day, and fewer spells in the spellbook. If you failed to learn a spell once - that was it for that spell forever. I also believe that the Netherese could repeatedly cast a spell they had learned - without the limits of spell slots in today's system (this is the Sorcerer bit). So - it's kinda an amalgam of two systems of magic we got today. Netheril--Empire of Magic can help us here. Have I got this right? cheers stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-20-04, 07:21 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels I've been going off and on for brief periods of time in the past few days. If y'all are going to fix the Netherese Arcanist, might I suggest coming up with an overall objective first? Specifically, determining how it's broken, what needs fixing, and how to go about fixing it. Personally, I don't think it needs any such repair. It's not "uber" per se, but it is good. My only beef with it (which I just now noticed) is it has no spell progression. Though, I guess it's tolerable since it's now remarkably easy to get bonuses to caster level from items and such. especially since the character would already be epic. Actually I was talking about the Angel T.V show. The vampire with a Soul on WB. Sorry for the confusion.
TheDarkestOfAngels 05-20-04, 11:31 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Actually I was talking about the Angel T.V show. The vampire with a Soul on WB. Sorry for the confusion. ah yes, that. Good show. I liked Buffy better, myself, but Angel was good too.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-20-04, 11:48 PM	Some off-topic posting is permitted at Guild House! Vote 1 Buffy! *chuckles* Jiles is my favourite. ....Xun - do ya wanna post whatcha got - so we can hava look? cheers stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-21-04, 12:02 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Some off-topic posting is permitted at Guild House! Vote 1 Buffy! *chuckles* Jiles is my favourite. ....Xun - do ya wanna post whatcha got - so we can hava look? cheers stav Well i'm still working on it. I really don't like to post something until I have the base completed. Then upgrades and changes come later.
anglar 05-21-04, 12:11 AM	<puts on +50 Ring of Anti-Buffyverse> That show was fine except for two things. One, they punked out Vampires like they're nothing more than humanoid leeches. Two, Buffy-frickin-Summers. "Boo-hoo-hoo! My life has been so horrible since I became a slayer." I can stand most of the other charaters. I even like Spike and Zander. Angel, a "vampire with a soul". "I am so tormented over all the evil things I did." I like Spike's response. "I killed a lot of people's mothers. Get over it." I can respect that. He doesn't apologize for being what he is. Back to a topic more suited for here. Xun, what say you to a foundation that's more than just arcane magic, but all types of magic?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-21-04, 08:09 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Great to see everyone here!!! OK - I'll take the invite to tease out the difference between Netherese and normal magic. OK - some Lore on Netherese Arcanists. I'm not sure I'd be concerned about them being underpowered.....at least not when we're done with them lads'n'ladies *grins evilly* Xun - can't wait to see it!!! My understanding on the differences between Netherese Arcanists and Normal wizardry - to help us with devloping the PrC - correct me if I'm wrong peoples :) In Faerunian Lore, it was the Elves who first taught the Netherese fishing folk magic. The Elven spell casting system (the Arcane system - not Elven High Magic), is what everyone will be familiar with. Just think of the Players Handbook here for guidance. When the Netherese founded Netheril and discovered the Nether Scrolls in the ruins of Aryvandaar (watch my spelling here) - this lead to a series of amazing discoveries. The Netherese discovered that they could specialise, and limit the amount of time they spent to learn spells. They were able to cast spells without somatic components (sorta like metamagic). To offset this, they could memorise fewer spells per day, and fewer spells in the spellbook. If you failed to learn a spell once - that was it for that spell forever. I also believe that the Netherese could repeatedly cast a spell they had learned - without the limits of spell slots in today's system (this is the Sorcerer bit). So - it's kinda an amalgam of two systems of magic we got today. Netheril--Empire of Magic can help us here. Have I got this right? cheers stav I honestly believe that the Netherese were more Wizards than Sorcerers. First, they were master item creators, and second, they learned the magic by studying the scrolls. What a Wizard would do. Sure a Sorcerer would pop up here and there, but I think they were mainly Wizards.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-21-04, 08:11 AM	Originally posted by anglar <puts on +50 Ring of Anti-Buffyverse> That show was fine except for two things. One, they punked out Vampires like they're nothing more than humanoid leeches. Two, Buffy-frickin-Summers. "Boo-hoo-hoo! My life has been so horrible since I became a slayer." I can stand most of the other charaters. I even like Spike and Zander. Angel, a "vampire with a soul". "I am so tormented over all the evil things I did." I like Spike's response. "I killed a lot of people's mothers. Get over it." I can respect that. He doesn't apologize for being what he is. Back to a topic more suited for here. Xun, what say you to a foundation that's more than just arcane magic, but all types of magic? Sorry, this is only Arcane Magic. I want to keep it at that because that is my favorite type. I do love clerical and druidic, but arcane is my favorite. Has since D&D first came out.
anglar 05-21-04, 05:37 PM	I wasn't proposing that you change this foundation. Merely suggesting starting another foundation that is devoted to magic of all types. Is that something you would support?
Silmarien Aldalome 05-21-04, 11:42 PM	I honestly believe that the Netherese were more Wizards than Sorcerers. First, they were master item creators, and second, they learned the magic by studying the scrolls. What a Wizard would do. Sure a Sorcerer would pop up here and there, but I think they were mainly Wizards. Sounds reasonable to me. Some sorcery traits, I'd add. @Ang: we *really* need an "all/other" kinds of magic here at Guild House - I'm so with you about the value of adding clerics, bardic, ranger, paladin-ic, and druidic magic. I'd personally love to see someone run with it. cheers stav Where's Thasis?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-22-04, 01:07 AM	Originally posted by anglar I wasn't proposing that you change this foundation. Merely suggesting starting another foundation that is devoted to magic of all types. Is that something you would support? You want me to start another foundation? If you do then I ma just do that.
anglar 05-22-04, 01:23 AM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek You want me to start another foundation? If you do then I ma just do that. You, myself, or another. Mostly I am inquiring as to whether or not you would lend your support to such a thing. Once I have your answer, then I shall do the same over at the CoA. I do have to be fair.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-22-04, 10:07 AM	Welp if you guys make a "All kinds of magic other than the chief spellcasting Clerics, Druids, and Mages" I am in. Or if you do an all spellcaster thing I am in. I support both beacuse I am mostly bards and rangers :P -Frosty
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-22-04, 11:41 AM	Originally posted by anglar You, myself, or another. Mostly I am inquiring as to whether or not you would lend your support to such a thing. Once I have your answer, then I shall do the same over at the CoA. I do have to be fair. If you want to do it or if you want me to do it then I will support it. I still want to keep my foundation and keep my members. We will take a vote if you would like? I consider Bards to be with the Arcane casters.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-22-04, 03:04 PM	Ok I have created another foundation. It's called The Foundation of Magic. This foundation is dedicated to all forms of magic. I will be taking care of both foundations. I will have my attention on both foundations as an equal.
thasis 05-22-04, 03:15 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Where's Thasis? I'm here, kinda ov. I still don't understand what you guys are doing but it sounds intresting. What I do think I get though is that you are craeting a arcane magic Prc called the Netherese Arcanists then you got of topic trying to decide what is better, Buffy or Angel (I say Buffy by the way, mainly because she's realy hot and on top of that I like vampires). Am I right or wrong?
thasis 05-22-04, 03:17 PM	Oh also I think the idea of magic in genral is a realy good idea. But I still have to say that arcane magic rocks!!!
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-22-04, 03:51 PM	Originally posted by thasis Oh also I think the idea of magic in genral is a realy good idea. But I still have to say that arcane magic rocks!!! So do I. I like Arcane better, but I am just as knowledgeable in other areas of magic, so I started another foundation. Like I posted, I am going to run both foundations equally. I brought up Angel because Wednesday was the final episode. but yes we are coming up with a better Netherese Arcanist PrC. I am working on one, but don't hesitate to give it a shot.
thasis 05-22-04, 03:59 PM	I don't even know what a Netherese Arcanist PrC is. Silmarien Aldalome tried to give me a description but I didn't realy understand.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-22-04, 04:03 PM	Originally posted by thasis I don't even know what a Netherese Arcanist PrC is. Silmarien Aldalome tried to give me a description but I didn't realy understand. I don't know if you keep up with Forgottem Realms, but the Netherese were a race of humans who became the most powerful spellcasters of all time. They were reaching 41st level in casting. They were casting 10th, 11th and 12th level spells, well actually there was only one 12th level spell. They were more or less super Specialists. One of them, Karsus developed the first and last 12 th level spell. It would allow him to steal the powers of any god that he chose. But in the end it destoyed him and most of his people. It began the end of the Netherese.
thasis 05-22-04, 04:08 PM	Oh ya, I remember reading that somewere. I don't actualy have any Forgotten Realms books. I was going to buy the Forgotten Realms sourcebook but I spent almost all my money on Darksteel Magic the Gathering cards (I like magic almost as much as D&D). If I can help I will but I don't know much about 12th level spells or actual game stats for the Netherese.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-22-04, 04:14 PM	Originally posted by thasis Oh ya, I remember reading that somewere. I don't actualy have any Forgotten Realms books. I was going to buy the Forgotten Realms sourcebook but I spent almost all my money on Darksteel Magic the Gathering cards (I like magic almost as much as D&D). If I can help I will but I don't know much about 12th level spells or actual game stats for the Netherese. Well that was for 2nd edition. They have a 3rd edition Netherese Arcanist PrC but I wasn't really impressed with it.
thasis 05-22-04, 08:58 PM	Oh, I see.
TheDarkestOfAngels 05-22-04, 10:15 PM	I just recently purchased the Complete Divine and there's a feat in it that grants up to +4 caster levels (depending on HD) to one spellcasting class (or it might have just been purely "arcane" spellcasting class). As long as the Total HD exceeds the total caster level, the feat gives Caster level benifits. The reason I mention this is that this feat, in conjunction with the netherease arcanist, negates the only problem I have with the class, which is that no spellcasting levels are gained.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-22-04, 10:28 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels I just recently purchased the Complete Divine and there's a feat in it that grants up to +4 caster levels (depending on HD) to one spellcasting class (or it might have just been purely "arcane" spellcasting class). As long as the Total HD exceeds the total caster level, the feat gives Caster level benifits. The reason I mention this is that this feat, in conjunction with the netherease arcanist, negates the only problem I have with the class, which is that no spellcasting levels are gained. Hmmm that sounds very interesting.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-23-04, 12:00 AM	@The Darkest of Angels - nice one! Originally posted by thasis Oh ya, I remember reading that somewere. I don't actualy have any Forgotten Realms books. I was going to buy the Forgotten Realms sourcebook but I spent almost all my money on Darksteel Magic the Gathering cards (I like magic almost as much as D&D). If I can help I will but I don't know much about 12th level spells or actual game stats for the Netherese. Hoy Thar Thasis. Thanx for your questions. 12th Level Magic is about letting the imagination run free. 11th level magic could sever the tops off of mountains and levitate a city permanently. The device the Netherese used to do this was called a Mythallar. Which was a 150 sphere of blindingly brilliant light, over whose surface, darker patches moved. 12th level magic - was only achieved once. Spells from this sphere could actually subsume a deity's powers into a mortal (temporarily). Karsus - a Netherese Arcanist and Archwizard - attempted the spell Karsus Avatar and got done in for it. So - if you have any ueber-spells you'd think are :cool: and fun - bring on the ideas!!! :) @ Xun - I'd like to see some discussion about Mystra's Bans - here. This is a determinant of the Netherese Arcanist in the form being written up. Also - I'd like to map out the Arcanist Functions - in the team-spirit. And - I have some Shadow Weave ideas I'd like to explore - but maybe at another Foundation. E.g. Shadow Weave versions of Karsus Avatar and various Shar-things. I've seen your new Foundation. Well done on the initiative. But, Anglar may wish to define his own "magical space" as well at Guild House. We'll have to see how he responds when he returns on Monday. Well Wishes stav
thasis 05-23-04, 02:11 AM	A good idea for a 12lv spell is a spell that could destroy a whole planet. Also in the epic level handbook there are rules for spells beyond 9th level (i'm sure your familier with them).
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-24-04, 10:31 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome @The Darkest of Angels - nice one! Hoy Thar Thasis. Thanx for your questions. 12th Level Magic is about letting the imagination run free. 11th level magic could sever the tops off of mountains and levitate a city permanently. The device the Netherese used to do this was called a Mythallar. Which was a 150 sphere of blindingly brilliant light, over whose surface, darker patches moved. 12th level magic - was only achieved once. Spells from this sphere could actually subsume a deity's powers into a mortal (temporarily). Karsus - a Netherese Arcanist and Archwizard - attempted the spell Karsus Avatar and got done in for it. So - if you have any ueber-spells you'd think are :cool: and fun - bring on the ideas!!! :) @ Xun - I'd like to see some discussion about Mystra's Bans - here. This is a determinant of the Netherese Arcanist in the form being written up. Also - I'd like to map out the Arcanist Functions - in the team-spirit. And - I have some Shadow Weave ideas I'd like to explore - but maybe at another Foundation. E.g. Shadow Weave versions of Karsus Avatar and various Shar-things. I've seen your new Foundation. Well done on the initiative. But, Anglar may wish to define his own "magical space" as well at Guild House. We'll have to see how he responds when he returns on Monday. Well Wishes stav Of course....
Silmarien Aldalome 05-25-04, 06:13 PM	Originally posted by thasis A good idea for a 12lv spell is a spell that could destroy a whole planet. Also in the epic level handbook there are rules for spells beyond 9th level (i'm sure your familier with them). Yes - spot on! Karsus Avatar was 12th level - and could susbume a god's portfolio - thus - a planet's rending might be within the scope of a 12th level spell. Now - Mystra's Bans are a small problem for a Netherese Arcanist. As has been pointed out by various canon heads - Epic Level Magic ain't Netherese Magic. Thasis - to bring you up to speed - after Karsus did his thing with the kick-ass spell to gobble up a god - Mystra, the Goddess of Magic - altered the very fabric of the Magical Universe. Mystra blocked magic above 10th level - with her Bans. Questions: if Mystra so grants it - can beyond-10th level magic still be cast? Do The Chosen wield 11+ magic, by Mystra's Permission? What can be done to get Mystra out of the way, so that the Netheres Arcanists can return? Regards stav
anglar 05-25-04, 07:26 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Yes - spot on! Karsus Avatar was 12th level - and could susbume a god's portfolio - thus - a planet's rending might be within the scope of a 12th level spell. Now - Mystra's Bans are a small problem for a Netherese Arcanist. As has been pointed out by various canon heads - Epic Level Magic ain't Netherese Magic. Thasis - to bring you up to speed - after Karsus did his thing with the kick-ass spell to gobble up a god - Mystra, the Goddess of Magic - altered the very fabric of the Magical Universe. Mystra blocked magic above 10th level - with her Bans. Questions: if Mystra so grants it - can beyond-10th level magic still be cast? Yes Do The Chosen wield 11+ magic, by Mystra's Permission? IMO, no they don't, unless you consider the Silver Fire to be that. What can be done to get Mystra out of the way, so that the Netheres Arcanists can return? Regards stav Things that we wouldn't want done because of the effects that it would have on the planescape. If Mystra is out of the way, chances are that it's someone evil who's in her place. Sometimes barricades are in place because mortals shouldn't do things, even if they don't understand why. Answer these questions: Why do you need a spell capable of destroying an entire planet? Who would make use of such a spell if it existed? If you're going to destroy a planet, don't you need somewhere else to be when you do it so you're not killed as well? Wouldn't a more worthy venture be to design an epic spell capable of creating a planet?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-25-04, 10:17 PM	Personally I really hate the Chosen of Mystra. The template just makes my skin crawl. It's more or less so you don't kill my NPC's template. I think it should be reworked.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-25-04, 10:21 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Personally I really hate the Chosen of Mystra. The template just makes my skin crawl. It's more or less so you don't kill my NPC's template. I think it should be reworked. Couldent agree more. I can stand Eli. Hes been though a lot. Hes earned his power. The rest of them I cant stand. They are all selfish, crazy, aragant wannabies in my opinion. They pretend like there defenders of Toril. I really hate this one Chosen though...hes really cocky and hes a gold elf. God I hate god elves. Makes my skin crawl to see one. Hes got a girlfriend who happens to be umm...I think like just another GOD or somthing and if I remeber correctly adding all his templates out the wazzo he has a CR of 55 ;). Actually ED had commented several occasions that the CoM are really crazy and wacked out in the head...some just show it more than others. -Frosty
KRONOS 05-25-04, 10:43 PM	Where is the template for the Chosen of Mystra?
Silmarien Aldalome 05-25-04, 11:35 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Personally I really hate the Chosen of Mystra. The template just makes my skin crawl. It's more or less so you don't kill my NPC's template. I think it should be reworked. :rofl: To Frosty - re, more Skin Crawling and Gold Elves :rofl: I'm with you here. The multi-classing of our Faerunian heroes has run their potency into the ground. Many of the templates (inlcuding Shar's I add) are colourful cartoon characatures of the real McCoy. Some of the adaptations are about how rules-based interpretations of heroic legends end up on paper and are about the adaptation to D&D sometimes alters key elements of a heroe's power base. Rules-based limitations on the expression of magic, is one of my pet bugbears. I think there's a good argument that justifies re-working of The Chosen - and I'd like to build them here from scratch. The Chosen - is an individual targeted by The Lady Mystra for specialist services, and who has exceptional magic-based abilities. To Ang: Your DM's sensibility results in well-formulated limits that respect game-balance as the core guiding principle, and you have an enourmous amount of DM experience to support the position. I find, though, that I create my best ideas, when I take the "brakes" off "thinking space" and once I have the idea out - then re-work it to within sensible game-limitations. Why a spell to destroy a planet? To make a helluva narrative and to make life interesting within the D&D game. Don't get me wrong though - many tools we develop may best be reserved for the NPC table.
anglar 05-25-04, 11:53 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Couldent agree more. I can stand Eli. Hes been though a lot. Hes earned his power. The rest of them I cant stand. They are all selfish, crazy, aragant wannabies in my opinion. They pretend like there defenders of Toril. I really hate this one Chosen though...hes really cocky and hes a gold elf. God I hate god elves. Makes my skin crawl to see one. Hes got a girlfriend who happens to be umm...I think like just another GOD or somthing and if I remeber correctly adding all his templates out the wazzo he has a CR of 55 ;). Actually ED had commented several occasions that the CoM are really crazy and wacked out in the head...some just show it more than others. -Frosty You're totally wrong on the CR. It's somewhere in the 90's. And the goddess is his wife IIRC. I don't have a problem with any of the stock Chosen of Mystra. They're nice characters for the novels. The problem is that you run across another 50 or so on the boards. I know I got one, but I'll bet his story is the most original. Kronos: the template can be found in the FRCS. To my wife: while a campaign set around the idea of a spell capable of destroying a planet, or the Karsus Avatar, or some other world changing event can be great for a campaign, I still believe they should get no further than ideas. If they become a reality in the game then you're left with only two choices as DM. Either you hook your players in the mouth and have them fail no matter what they do or you are left to re-create the world after they have done whatever it is they do. If you choose the latter, I'd say it'd be easier to make your own setting.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-26-04, 12:38 AM	Originally posted by anglar To my wife: while a campaign set around the idea of a spell capable of destroying a planet, or the Karsus Avatar, or some other world changing event can be great for a campaign, I still believe they should get no further than ideas. If they become a reality in the game then you're left with only two choices as DM. Either you hook your players in the mouth and have them fail no matter what they do or you are left to re-create the world after they have done whatever it is they do. If you choose the latter, I'd say it'd be easier to make your own setting. :rofl: :rofl: (see boldface) OK *everyone* we're catching up to CoA - come on team - go go get 'em! As ideas - yes - they fire the imagination. As game tools - they are indeed very difficult to integrate into a campaign without totally disrupting Game Balance (not impossible I add). I also note that there's also a move around, to not simply discount "min-maxing" - but to explore the utility of the ideas. Magical ones are particularly thought-provoking. I add also - that as NPC-DM-Plot devices (not PC tools) some of the ueber-kick-ass-right-out-there-outa-control ideas make for great game tools. stav
anglar 05-26-04, 12:57 AM	The danger with letting NPCs have something is that it tells the PCs that it is possible. "Tamm figured out a way to cast Karsus Avatar. Now that he's gone, maybe we can research his notes and figure out where he went wrong and do it right this time." It's that fine line between idea and game reality that you have to balance. With my group, I simply keep away from it at all. There are other ways of becoming a god.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-26-04, 03:00 AM	Originally posted by anglar The danger with letting NPCs have something is that it tells the PCs that it is possible. "Tamm figured out a way to cast Karsus Avatar. Now that he's gone, maybe we can research his notes and figure out where he went wrong and do it right this time." It's that fine line between idea and game reality that you have to balance. With my group, I simply keep away from it at all. There are other ways of becoming a god. 233 - 179 = 64 posts to make up to pass CoA! Yes - agreed. "When Tamm cast Karsus Avatar - the Whole Magic source she needed to cast the spell was destroyed by a back-lash reaction." Or "After she cast Karsus Avatar - The Elven High Mages appeared - who have their own copy of the Nether Scrolls". They had been watching the show down for many days, awaiting their opportunity to intervene. The Lady Mystra - granted her Chosen a single-Use Function - and the Spell was destroyed."
anglar 05-26-04, 03:45 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome 233 - 179 = 64 posts to make up to pass CoA! Yes - agreed. "When Tamm cast Karsus Avatar - the Whole Magic source she needed to cast the spell was destroyed by a back-lash reaction." Or "After she cast Karsus Avatar - The Elven High Mages appeared - who have their own copy of the Nether Scrolls". They had been watching the show down for many days, awaiting their opportunity to intervene. The Lady Mystra - granted her Chosen a single-Use Function - and the Spell was destroyed." Ava is going to take this personally and you know it. #1) There are multiple sources of the whole magic source on Faerun. All you need is a Chosen, their blood to be precise, IMC
Silmarien Aldalome 05-26-04, 08:35 AM	re: taking it personally - - Actually I'm hoping it's a way to encurage healthy competition. To up the posting rates on the threads. However - I'm not married to the idea - and am happy to let it go. I would like it thought of as friendly "frat" house competition. Please elaborate on this Whole Magic thing about Chosen Blood. This is a new one for me? Do you mean like Karsus's "Heavy Magic"? People have claimed that Whole and Heavy Magic are the same at Forgotten Realms. stav
anglar 05-26-04, 09:51 PM	In my game, Zsass Tam figured out an alternative way of casting Karsus Avatar. Amongst the other hard to get material components is the blood of a chosen of a god. Theorizing that since Chosens are mortal extensions of their patron deities, their blood would help bridge the gap between mortality and god'dom. Tam figuring that an asualt against any of the known Chosen woul result in too much retaliation from others, started casting Wish spells out the wazoo to get a lesser known deity to take interest in making a Chosen of his own, Skerrit in my game. He did all of this because he had a vision of an unknown Chosen being within his own grasp. The result was Khrystal Walker was born a Chosen of Skerrit, though for the life of him he couldn't really understand why he was doing it. Now my players are on the verge of a world war, but I've figured a few ways around it. I've planted a Ring of Protection on a PC that has a Wish spell waiting in it as well. I'm going to try to use an NPC to get that character to say "I Wish Khrystal Walker wasn't a Chosen." Since it all came about via a Wish, then a Wish can undo it. My second option is to use Trap the Soul on her. The NPC is my own CoM, so the gem won't be that hard to come by. The last option is that I have my NPC kill her. The justification is that by killing her, it would prevent the war where most likely millions will die.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-26-04, 10:08 PM	Takes up his +500 MunchkinBane Greatsword "This will come in handy" Frosty says looking over at Anglar "What? I'm just fighting fire with fire" ;) -Frosty
anglar 05-26-04, 10:19 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Takes up his +500 MunchkinBane Greatsword "This will come in handy" Frosty says looking over at Anglar "What? I'm just fighting fire with fire" ;) -Frosty You know what's sad? Ahmad could probably take 3 hits from that thing before falling. By then he'd have hit you with something awful. I'm glad he's the aspect of my personality that is a Boy Scout. He's a guy who got so scared of his powers when he became a Chosen that he went on a two years pilgrimage to learn from the other Chosen just how to handle the power he had. IMO, nobody should be a Chosen of any deity before 25th level. Until then, it's too much power for a character to have. In real time, the original character sheets for Ahmad and Anglar turn 14 next month. I've still got them.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-27-04, 11:25 PM	Personally I think that Cadderly Bonaduce Chosen of Deneir could take out all the Chosen. Quickly, let me talk about how broken the Chosen of Mystra template is. First of all, in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting book the template says that a Chosen is immune to a spell levels 1-9 as if protected by a Spell Immunity spell. Well on other books and even in the same book under their descriptions it says all attacks that duplicate these affects, not spells but attacks. It says that the Chosen are immune to disintegrate, but yet they all choose disintegrate as one of the spells they are immune to. If you are already immune to it why take it again when you can take something else. I think the template is the way it is so they can't be killed, but have a game mechanic way of prooving it, instead of just saying they can't be killed. It's a splat, munchkin template.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-27-04, 11:48 PM	"Munchkin Template" = :rofl: Frosty: :rofl: Re: Chosen Blood, Karsus Avatar, Civil/World Wars and characters. Since the Chosen are part god - it might follow that this is a basis for a spell component for a KA like spell. But what about the DC though? Or have you modified the spell? Which weave are you using? What about "Chosen-ses from the womb?" (*Sil-Gollum adds" yes my preciousss - Chosenses makes sweets meet to eat - we don't need food for many months after eating one, preciouss*) a chosen - with latent powers until well into Epic Level.... Xun - what would you like seen done to Chosen Templates? Stav
anglar 05-28-04, 01:29 AM	Well, I think anyone that "becomes" a chosen is so from birth. It's just that certain things have to take place before the powers reveal themselves. Side Note: Xun, I've done some looking into sorcerers (I know how you love them) and I was wondering if you realized that by 17th level a wizard will know more spells than a socerer will know with taking a feat. Unless the sorcerer takes a feat at epic levels, they cap out at 34 spells known. A wizard who has done nothing more than the regular study which grants him those two spells per level gained will know 35 spells at 17th level without counting the bonus spells he'd get at 1st level for a high INT score. I'd like somebaody to tell me again that the sorcerer class was designed for anything other than multiclassing
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-28-04, 10:42 PM	Originally posted by anglar Well, I think anyone that "becomes" a chosen is so from birth. It's just that certain things have to take place before the powers reveal themselves. Side Note: Xun, I've done some looking into sorcerers (I know how you love them) and I was wondering if you realized that by 17th level a wizard will know more spells than a socerer will know with taking a feat. Unless the sorcerer takes a feat at epic levels, they cap out at 34 spells known. A wizard who has done nothing more than the regular study which grants him those two spells per level gained will know 35 spells at 17th level without counting the bonus spells he'd get at 1st level for a high INT score. I'd like somebaody to tell me again that the sorcerer class was designed for anything other than multiclassing Yeah I did a little chart and posted on that very same thing. People were arguing with me that the Sorcerer is better because he can cast his spells more times per day. That supposedly makes him better to handle situations. Where the Wizard can prepare more actual spells per day, than the Sorcerer knows period. If you start with an Int of 17 or 18 the Wizard will still bypass the Sorcerer from 2nd level all the way to 20th. Yeah they may have the same number like once or twice, but the Wizard just keeps on soaring.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-28-04, 10:46 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome "Munchkin Template" = :rofl: Frosty: :rofl: Re: Chosen Blood, Karsus Avatar, Civil/World Wars and characters. Since the Chosen are part god - it might follow that this is a basis for a spell component for a KA like spell. But what about the DC though? Or have you modified the spell? Which weave are you using? What about "Chosen-ses from the womb?" (*Sil-Gollum adds" yes my preciousss - Chosenses makes sweets meet to eat - we don't need food for many months after eating one, preciouss*) a chosen - with latent powers until well into Epic Level.... Xun - what would you like seen done to Chosen Templates? Stav I think the template shouldn't exist personally. I would take out immunity to one spell at levels 1 through 9. I would just give them spell resistance, so there are not mix ups or rewording to make the template more powerful. +10 to Con, doesn;t really make since except to give them more HP. If they are going to have immunity to a spell 1 through 9, then the Chosen shouldn't be able to cast those spells that they are immune to. Immunity to Disintegrate? Thats munchkin. When I think of some more I will let you know.
TheDarkestOfAngels 05-28-04, 11:06 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I think the template shouldn't exist personally. I would take out immunity to one spell at levels 1 through 9. I would just give them spell resistance, so there are not mix ups or rewording to make the template more powerful. +10 to Con, doesn;t really make since except to give them more HP. If they are going to have immunity to a spell 1 through 9, then the Chosen shouldn't be able to cast those spells that they are immune to. Immunity to Disintegrate? Thats munchkin. When I think of some more I will let you know. Why? It's not like the template was made for PCs anyway. If it were, it'd have a listed level adjustment. Furthermore, the template exists because there are chosen of Mystra in existance. Elminster and the Simbul, for instance, are both Chosen and have all of the stated powers. (Although there are a number of errors both on the template itself and on the chosen character's stat blocks.) furthermore, what on the template makes them "Munchkin?" I've played a chosen before (using the CR adjustment as a Level Adjustement) and it didn't disrupt game balance at all. and this was back in 3e when disintegrate was save-or-death.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-30-04, 08:57 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Yeah I did a little chart and posted on that very same thing. People were arguing with me that the Sorcerer is better because he can cast his spells more times per day. That supposedly makes him better to handle situations. Where the Wizard can prepare more actual spells per day, than the Sorcerer knows period. If you start with an Int of 17 or 18 the Wizard will still bypass the Sorcerer from 2nd level all the way to 20th. Yeah they may have the same number like once or twice, but the Wizard just keeps on soaring. I've never been able to justify an argument that places the Sorcerer in the advantage over the wizard. The versatility that is lost by the restricted spell lists, seems to overcompensate for the greater ability of sorcerer to cast spells per day. Added to that - accessibility to Spell-Level power is one step/level behind the Wizard. The slight flexibility in 3.5 for Sorcerers to "forget" old spells and "learn" new ones doesn't change the power of the Sorcerer, but speaks to another important point: the severe limits on Spells Known makes the Sorcerer very boring in game play terms. It encourages formulaic behaviours from PC's - which is a deadener to creativity and fun. Hi Ho Darkest of Angels. Interesting. I'm not sure I want to nerf Chosen. It seems to me that 3.5 has driven all the Fearunian Heroes, statistically speaking, right into the ground by excessive multiclassing and by underpowering them. While various Templates may seem broken from a DM 3.5 point of view, further constraining Templates, seems to me a step in the direction away from what it means to have a "hero mythology". I agree that NPC'ing overpowered templates is one way to go, to protect game balance. I also think the problem is one of rarity - or rather "glut" (the opposite of rarity". As Anglar has pointed out, Chosen-ses (Sil-Golum: preciouss-es) are supposed to be few and far between. Instead, we are seeing them pop up in excessive numbers in campaigns, - which of course, makes a DM's nightmare. What is the answer? I don't know - but these are just some thoughts. regards stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-30-04, 09:26 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome I've never been able to justify an argument that places the Sorcerer in the advantage over the wizard. The versatility that is lost by the restricted spell lists, seems to overcompensate for the greater ability of sorcerer to cast spells per day. Added to that - accessibility to Spell-Level power is one step/level behind the Wizard. The slight flexibility in 3.5 for Sorcerers to "forget" old spells and "learn" new ones doesn't change the power of the Sorcerer, but speaks to another important point: the severe limits on Spells Known makes the Sorcerer very boring in game play terms. It encourages formulaic behaviours from PC's - which is a deadener to creativity and fun. Hi Ho Darkest of Angels. Interesting. I'm not sure I want to nerf Chosen. It seems to me that 3.5 has driven all the Fearunian Heroes, statistically speaking, right into the ground by excessive multiclassing and by underpowering them. While various Templates may seem broken from a DM 3.5 point of view, further constraining Templates, seems to me a step in the direction away from what it means to have a "hero mythology". I agree that NPC'ing overpowered templates is one way to go, to protect game balance. I also think the problem is one of rarity - or rather "glut" (the opposite of rarity". As Anglar has pointed out, Chosen-ses (Sil-Golum: preciouss-es) are supposed to be few and far between. Instead, we are seeing them pop up in excessive numbers in campaigns, - which of course, makes a DM's nightmare. What is the answer? I don't know - but these are just some thoughts. regards stav Very good statement Sil..........
thasis 05-30-04, 10:48 PM	I don't have the forgotten realms (but I have read over 50 FR novels) so I don't know the power of the Chosen of Mystara but they sound more overpowered then me in my old campaign as a Lv Google-Plex Devil Lord (a extremly overpowered Prc I designed) Pit Fiend. I say kill everyone of those stupid overpowered bastards (sorry for he languge). I sink my army of hell hounds on them. I do like Elmnister and Shandril (from the Spellfire Series). Shandril is a Chosen right? I kind of got that impression from the books. Also sorry for my leave of absense. I've been surfing other parts of the boards.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-30-04, 11:00 PM	Originally posted by thasis I don't have the forgotten realms (but I have read over 50 FR novels) so I don't know the power of the Chosen of Mystara but they sound more overpowered then me in my old campaign as a Lv Google-Plex Devil Lord (a extremly overpowered Prc I designed) Pit Fiend. I say kill everyone of those stupid overpowered bastards (sorry for he languge). I sink my army of hell hounds on them. I do like Elmnister and Shandril (from the Spellfire Series). Shandril is a Chosen right? I kind of got that impression from the books. Also sorry for my leave of absense. I've been surfing other parts of the boards. No Shandril is not a Chosen, she has Spellfire. I can't stand Elminster personally. I think that character should have died long ago. Let's sick Raistlin on him.
thasis 05-31-04, 07:49 PM	I thought Shandril was a spellfire weilder and a chosen.
Silmarien Aldalome 05-31-04, 07:53 PM	Looks upstream at Chosen comments about Elminster *chuckles* Seems to me you either love or hate Elminster. I've a friend who read Elminsters Journals before he was developed into Forgotten Realms materials. Used to publish about him in AD&D days. He goes back to the 80's. Hi there Xun - help thasis out: can you explain the difference between Spellfire and Silverfire. regards stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 05-31-04, 10:36 PM	Silverfire is a fragment of Mystra. It is a piece of her that resides in every chosen. Now Spellfire is absorbing energy from items,, etc... and turning it into raw magical energy. You are almost like a walking Rod of Absorbtion. Shandril became a spellfire weilder when she came into contact with the magic eating creature, (can't remember the name off the bat). Silverfire is given to her Chosen.
thasis 05-31-04, 11:06 PM	Isn't spellfire a natural ability that your born with (usualy inharited) but remains dorment untill something activates (in case of Shandril it was that creature).
anglar 06-01-04, 07:10 PM	Spellfire and Silverfire are similar in what they do, but they differ in how one gets it. Silverfire is, as said by others, is a power of Mystra's Chosen. Spellfire is a very random thing that a chracter is born with, but doesn't exactly know how or when it's going to work. The thing with Spellfire as a DM is knowing when to let your player use it. The hard part is that it can only be taken at first level, so the PC may feel cheated if the DM doesn't let the feat be used. Personally, I removed it from the feat list and have my players roll percentile. Those who get 100 roll again. If they get 100 again then they get it for free, but I determine when it activates. AS for the Chosen, read my sig.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-01-04, 07:20 PM	Where did I read that Silverfire is highly focusable - while Spellfire isn't? The latter more random/destructive. Can you mend weave with Spellfire? cheers stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-02-04, 08:10 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Where did I read that Silverfire is highly focusable - while Spellfire isn't? The latter more random/destructive. Can you mend weave with Spellfire? cheers stav No you can't mend the Weave with Spellfire.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-10-04, 09:47 PM	How would you guys like it if Karsus came back as a deity? Or, as some new kind of divine human? Why don't we put our noggins together and come up with a kick ass story to bring him back?
TheDarkestOfAngels 06-11-04, 12:02 AM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek How would you guys like it if Karsus came back as a deity? Or, as some new kind of divine human? Why don't we put our noggins together and come up with a kick ass story to bring him back? That would require another god to come into existance. I'm all for death/creation of dieties (makes the setting seem all the more alive and keeps things interesting). Karsus, if I remember correctly, became a god because he used a 12th level spell and took the divinity from the mystra that existed in the time period. However, if he came back, he'd be in kind of an odd position, with there being two gods of magic, and all. It would also imply that Mystra is actually much more powerful than what she presently is, as some of the divinity she inherited from the previous mystra would be still locked with Karsus. Personally, I think if something big were to happen, it should involve new people or gods or something. An idea for a campaign I might eventually run does something of that nature. The resurrection (or prevention thereof) of a god that existed long before faerun's creation. One that Ao abandoned to create Faerun, who absorbed the divinities from all of the other gods that existed at the time and subsequently became so powerful, that his name only exists as a myth between the gods that currently exist, whose divine power is said to be greater than any god. That would be cool, I think.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-12-04, 02:00 PM	Well there can be more than one god or goddess of magic. Boccob, Vecna and Wee Jas are all three gods and goddesses of magic. It's just that Boccob is the greater of the three. See, Karsus learned of his folly as he was dying. Karsus could come back as demi divine, and take up under Mystra. He could be a god of Magic, but also Knowledge, since he did create the only 12th lvl spell, and the god of mistakes and follies. Mystra could sponser Karsus, cause the Mystra of now, wasn't even a twinkle in her daddies eye when this all took place. Sure she could have a touch of anger, but not like the Mystra who took over the position from Mystryl. I think it could work. He could be mainly worshipped in Halruaa.
TheDarkestOfAngels 06-12-04, 02:29 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Well there can be more than one god or goddess of magic. Boccob, Vecna and Wee Jas are all three gods and goddesses of magic. It's just that Boccob is the greater of the three. See, Karsus learned of his folly as he was dying. Karsus could come back as demi divine, and take up under Mystra. He could be a god of Magic, but also Knowledge, since he did create the only 12th lvl spell, and the god of mistakes and follies. Mystra could sponser Karsus, cause the Mystra of now, wasn't even a twinkle in her daddies eye when this all took place. Sure she could have a touch of anger, but not like the Mystra who took over the position from Mystryl. I think it could work. He could be mainly worshipped in Halruaa. Boccob is the god of magic Vecna is the god of secrets and intrigue Wee Jas is the god of death Between the three, Boccob and Wee Jas are the only ones with magic in their portfolio, but Boccob is the only one that is specifically the god of magic. Furthermore, those are Greyhawk gods. Mystra and Karsus are all on Faerun in the Forgotten Realms. In the Forgotten Realms, there are three gods (that I am aware of) that deal with magic at all: They are Mystra, the goddess of magic, Azuth, the god of spells and spellcasters in general, and Shar, the nihilist goddess of darkness and loss (but who is trying to break into magic w/ her shadow weave). Mystra is the only one with magic in her portfolio. The only way Karsus could even break into dietyhood and have anything to do with magic is to either get a magic related portfolio that none of the other gods have (unlikely) or grab a similar portfolio that deals with a more specific matter regarding magic and resign to never becoming greater than a demigod. (similar to how the red knight came into being in relation to tempus). However, Karsus' soul would have to come back from being trapped in a big, red rock that's in the middle of a patch of forestry that I believe is in a forest in the silver marches. After that, he would have to be resurrected, then he'd have to be sponsored by one of the existing gods and would wind up asking Ao's permission to become a god. While I'm sure the "mistakes and follies" portfolios are untaken, the knowledge and magic portfolios are both taken by oghma and mystra respectively.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-12-04, 02:35 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels Boccob is the god of magic Vecna is the god of secrets and intrigue Wee Jas is the god of death Between the three, Boccob and Wee Jas are the only ones with magic in their portfolio, but Boccob is the only one that is specifically the god of magic. Furthermore, those are Greyhawk gods. Mystra and Karsus are all on Faerun in the Forgotten Realms. In the Forgotten Realms, there are three gods (that I am aware of) that deal with magic at all: They are Mystra, the goddess of magic, Azuth, the god of spells and spellcasters in general, and Shar, the nihilist goddess of darkness and loss (but who is trying to break into magic w/ her shadow weave). Mystra is the only one with magic in her portfolio. The only way Karsus could even break into dietyhood and have anything to do with magic is to either get a magic related portfolio that none of the other gods have (unlikely) or grab a similar portfolio that deals with a more specific matter regarding magic and resign to never becoming greater than a demigod. (similar to how the red knight came into being in relation to tempus). However, Karsus' soul would have to come back from being trapped in a big, red rock that's in the middle of a patch of forestry that I believe is in a forest in the silver marches. After that, he would have to be resurrected, then he'd have to be sponsored by one of the existing gods and would wind up asking Ao's permission to become a god. While I'm sure the "mistakes and follies" portfolios are untaken, the knowledge and magic portfolios are both taken by oghma and mystra respectively. There are other gods of magic. Savras which is the god of Divinations, Velsharoon God of Necromancy. Corellon Larethian the God of Elves has magic in his portfolio. There are many gods that have magic in his or her portfolio's. The soul of Karsus is trapped in three places. Karsus could come back if somehow all three parts of his soul were combined. I think it could be done.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-12-04, 02:37 PM	http://
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Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-12-04, 05:05 PM	Karsus is stuck in a big red rock in the middle of the High Forest which is near the Silver Marches. The smaller section of the Forest is known as the Dire Forest. Not beacuse of big animals but beacuse of the strange weather, plagues and events caused by the red stone of Karsus. The Dire forest is only about two miles around but gets incredably big once you get into it and it keeps expanding till I belive ten or twenty miles. Finnaly my knowlge of the north comes in handy! -Frosty
TheDarkestOfAngels 06-12-04, 05:38 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek There are other gods of magic. Savras which is the god of Divinations, Velsharoon God of Necromancy. Corellon Larethian the God of Elves has magic in his portfolio. There are many gods that have magic in his or her portfolio's. The soul of Karsus is trapped in three places. Karsus could come back if somehow all three parts of his soul were combined. I think it could be done. There are several gods that deal with magic yes, but there's only one god -of- magic and that's Mystra. Corellon is another matter because he belongs to the elven pantheon. Just like how there could be an orc god of magic or a Drow god of magic or whathaveyou. Divination and Necromancy are not magic, they're specific schools of spells.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-13-04, 12:31 AM	My understanding was that Karsus - as the Karsestone - resides with Shar in her Home Plane. Anyhowz, a small thing. I've been exploring Karsestonian Lore for a while now - and yes - it is possible to resurrect him. It's possible to resurrect dead gods (within FaP this is noted). The requirement is for the event to be actioned by the living, and by infusing the system of contingencies with the correct combination of Lore and Power. Stav
Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-13-04, 12:55 PM	What would happen if you brought back to life a dead god when another god had there portfolio? Which would get it? Say I brought back midnight and mystra. There are three "Mystras" now. What happens here? -Frosty
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-14-04, 11:19 PM	Karsus could actually work for Shar, and in return be the God of Spells when dealing with the Shadow Weave. Like Azuth is the God of spells and spellcasters. He could be the Lord of Shadow Spells, or something similiar. Use your imaginations people. There is a very good way for Karsus to be brought back. All that has to be done is somehow join his three spirits back together and destroy the force that keeps those three sections prisoner. I'm sure Larloch could play a roll, or the Shades for that matter. Karsus is still considered a deity. Or, I just had a thought, he could be the god of mentalists, after all he was a mentalist. And lets face it, if you were to face Karsus as a mortal vs. Azuth as a mortal Karsus would wipe the floor, Karsus could probably take Azuth if Azuth was a lesser deity. Hey, they brought Bane back. I wish Bhaal and Myrkul would come back. Myrkul has a good chance of coming back too. His essence is still in that river. There are many many portfolios to take.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-14-04, 11:20 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart What would happen if you brought back to life a dead god when another god had there portfolio? Which would get it? Say I brought back midnight and mystra. There are three "Mystras" now. What happens here? -Frosty Actually it wouldn't work like that. See there is a part of the original Mystryl in all the Mystras. There are seperate, but yet the same. You couldn't bring all three back. It's one or the other.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-15-04, 04:07 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Actually it wouldn't work like that. See there is a part of the original Mystryl in all the Mystras. There are seperate, but yet the same. You couldn't bring all three back. It's one or the other. In other words - Nobody really understands? Kinda like that jesus-Holy Spit-God thing. There three things...yet one thing...but not one thing three things but they are a whole and one yet are not and so on and so forth. Sorry...A CCD dropout should never speak like that :(. -Frosty
Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-15-04, 04:07 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Actually it wouldn't work like that. See there is a part of the original Mystryl in all the Mystras. There are seperate, but yet the same. You couldn't bring all three back. It's one or the other. In other words - Nobody really understands? Kinda like that jesus-Holy Spit-God thing. There three things...yet one thing...but not one thing three things but they are a whole and one yet are not and so on and so forth. Sorry...A CCD dropout should never speak like that :(. -Frosty
Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-15-04, 04:07 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Actually it wouldn't work like that. See there is a part of the original Mystryl in all the Mystras. There are seperate, but yet the same. You couldn't bring all three back. It's one or the other. In other words - Nobody really understands? Kinda like that jesus-Holy Spit-God thing. There three things...yet one thing...but not one thing three things but they are a whole and one yet are not and so on and so forth. Sorry...A CCD dropout should never speak like that :(. -Frosty
Silmarien Aldalome 06-15-04, 06:26 PM	Hi there Frosty+Xun. OK - first off, as per R.Baker - Shar lacks "Knowledge, power or essence" at this point in time to be able to enact mastery over Shadow Weave to the same extent as Mystra. Mystra is currently the goddess of Magic. Shar's portfolio is really naf, and about caves and the underdark and things, where Mystra's is more kick-ass. Shar's S.Weave also won't support epic level magic without Karsestonian aid. Therefore - 'ere and Karsus+Shar coo over realmspace is possible, Shar must extend her portfolion and modify her SDAs. I believe Karsus can be restored. I have recently read in FaP that dead gods can be resurrected. However, I don't think Karsus will come back a deity. Karsus Avatar in Netheril--Empire of Magic was a time-limited spell, and further, Mystra got her power back. The Karsus Avatar remnants are somewhere moving outwards to infinity in the cosmos. But - I also believe that Mystra knows the spell, and has a copy in Dweomerheart. I also believe she sacked the ruins of Netheril to make sure all Karsus's notes got removed from the ruins of the flying cities. Hope you've all been well. stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-15-04, 07:17 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Hi there Frosty+Xun. OK - first off, as per R.Baker - Shar lacks "Knowledge, power or essence" at this point in time to be able to enact mastery over Shadow Weave to the same extent as Mystra. Mystra is currently the goddess of Magic. Shar's portfolio is really naf, and about caves and the underdark and things, where Mystra's is more kick-ass. Shar's S.Weave also won't support epic level magic without Karsestonian aid. Therefore - 'ere and Karsus+Shar coo over realmspace is possible, Shar must extend her portfolion and modify her SDAs. I believe Karsus can be restored. I have recently read in FaP that dead gods can be resurrected. However, I don't think Karsus will come back a deity. Karsus Avatar in Netheril--Empire of Magic was a time-limited spell, and further, Mystra got her power back. The Karsus Avatar remnants are somewhere moving outwards to infinity in the cosmos. But - I also believe that Mystra knows the spell, and has a copy in Dweomerheart. I also believe she sacked the ruins of Netheril to make sure all Karsus's notes got removed from the ruins of the flying cities. Hope you've all been well. stav Mystra did destroy the plans for Karsus' Avatar Spell. If you have the Powers and Pantheons from Second ediiton, read it. It has some good information on Karsus. The only thing that keeps him from reforming is his seperate spirits.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-15-04, 11:31 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Mystra did destroy the plans for Karsus' Avatar Spell. If you have the Powers and Pantheons from Second ediiton, read it. It has some good information on Karsus. The only thing that keeps him from reforming is his seperate spirits. It's an interesting metaphysical take on Karsus - as Frosty has pointed out, it seems to have an analogy in "holy" (as in Trinity). But the allegorical reference might be coincidental. Now - I'm not one to slam-dunk 2E materials - but this concept hasn't been imported into 3E. Faiths and Pantheons doesn't refer to it like that, to the best of my knowledge. I'd have thought (Occam's Razor) that he was simply too old to be resurrected. Without magical support from age-preventing spells (that required Mystryl's Weave, and Mythallar) - he's just simply dead and being centuries old, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. In any case - why don't you cite from your reference materials. I'd like to see the text here. thanx stav
Vharuck 06-16-04, 01:59 AM	Going back to raising dead gods, since it was killed by the fact that Mystra, Mystral, and Midnight are consecutive incarnations... If you raise a dead god, he would take avatar form, and have no portfolios at first. After a while (I guess) he could travel to Ao (or the overgod) and either get his portfolios back or fight his replacement(s) for them. That's what happened with Bane and Gilgeam (though Gilgeam wasn't able to assume full-god status as he was brought back as undead and quickly killed)
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-17-04, 10:30 PM	Originally posted by Vharuck Going back to raising dead gods, since it was killed by the fact that Mystra, Mystral, and Midnight are consecutive incarnations... If you raise a dead god, he would take avatar form, and have no portfolios at first. After a while (I guess) he could travel to Ao (or the overgod) and either get his portfolios back or fight his replacement(s) for them. That's what happened with Bane and Gilgeam (though Gilgeam wasn't able to assume full-god status as he was brought back as undead and quickly killed) It was Tiamat that killed Gilgeam....
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-24-04, 10:49 PM	Ok people...I am back in full...What topic of interest do we begin on? I know we have stated a few but lets zero in on one.
thasis 06-25-04, 08:19 PM	I agree with Xun we need a good topic. Every time I come here I get confused what were disscusing.
Ankheg 06-25-04, 08:37 PM	s...................................... Sorry, wrong guild.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-25-04, 10:58 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Ok people...I am back in full...What topic of interest do we begin on? I know we have stated a few but lets zero in on one. I'm back from my social epidemiology conference as well. A fascinating week. We spent many hours workshopping social phenomena like poverty and health and looking to ways of changing social systems. I loved it. Hi there Xun - what have you been doing - I hope you're well too. :) OK - hi there Thasis as well. I'm not the Thread Keeper - but I'm happy to offer some suggestions for discussion.... 1. We've got the Netherese Arcanist that hasn't been built yet - which I'd love to return to. 2. Various Faerunian things. 3. Some Shadow Weave lore. Howz about talkin' about some of the broken spells in v3.5? stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-26-04, 11:04 AM	I had to scrap the Arcanist I was working on. I thought it wasn't right. But working on the Arcanist again is fine with me. What do you guys think?
TheDarkestOfAngels 06-26-04, 02:32 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I had to scrap the Arcanist I was working on. I thought it wasn't right. But working on the Arcanist again is fine with me. What do you guys think? I don't think it's necessary. The netherease arcanist is a fine prestige class.
thasis 06-26-04, 02:33 PM	I know nothing of Forgotten Realms except what I have read in novels so I'm not much help with the Arcanist and I don't have 3.5 yet so I can't disscuse broken spells.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-28-04, 07:19 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels I don't think it's necessary. The netherease arcanist is a fine prestige class. A few of us thought the class lacked in a lot of things, so we are going to rewrite it.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-28-04, 10:08 PM	Hi there Darkest of Angels - great to see you here! I like many of the templates in PGtF - but as a general blanket statement - the multiclassing mode sets the Power Standards lower than I'd like to see. We'd love for you to bring what it is that you really like about the Netherese Arcanist to our attention - so that we can exchange ideas about the PrC. @Xun I'd love to see some concepts for the Arcanist mapped out. Howz about we start on the common-ground. To do that - we first need to know the bits you each like about the existing PrC. warm regards stav IE Bring It On!
TheDarkestOfAngels 06-29-04, 02:37 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Hi there Darkest of Angels - great to see you here! I like many of the templates in PGtF - but as a general blanket statement - the multiclassing mode sets the Power Standards lower than I'd like to see. We'd love for you to bring what it is that you really like about the Netherese Arcanist to our attention - so that we can exchange ideas about the PrC. Well, I won't go into great detail, but I'll just speak a few points Good things: Just about everything. You gain epic spellcasting as a bonus feat Epic Spell Focus and Greater ESF Backlash Resistance (!) Plus the ability to specialize (and gain the benifits thereof) in several epic seeds Significant reduction in the cost of epic spells Altogether, it makes one powerful PrC for any epic spellcaster. (And is likewise difficult to get into because of the "Traditions of Netheril" requirement.) It's essentially the -super- archmage that only humans can access. My only real gripe is that there is no caster level advancement. Though, a few "Practiced Spellcaster" or whatever from the complete divine can take care of that easy. The Flavor of being a truely epic (and possibly ancient) spellcaster virtually seethes from this PrC in a similar vein as the Elven High Mage. (Plus, it's nice seeing something cool and powerful for humans, for a change.)
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 06-30-04, 08:05 PM	I do like the Epic Spellcasting Feat as a bonus given. But the others, you can get with general feats. I think the Arcanist should have a few special abilities that make them unique from say a Epic Human Archmage. Something that defines the Arcanist.
TheDarkestOfAngels 06-30-04, 11:05 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I do like the Epic Spellcasting Feat as a bonus given. But the others, you can get with general feats. I think the Arcanist should have a few special abilities that make them unique from say a Epic Human Archmage. Something that defines the Arcanist. Umm... you can't get any of the Neth Arcanist special abilities, except epic spellcasting, as an epic feat and especially not as a general feat or archmage special ability. The other stuff (everything other than epic spellcasting) is completely unique to the NA. I don't know how you might think otherwise.
Agudo Archmage 07-01-04, 01:15 PM	Greeting and well met everyone! I have been reading the various topics, and found many of them fun to read. And I apologies, if I throw the latest topic off track, but I had a question. If your character specializes in one school, as talked about before on this thread and lets say the school is in Fireballs/Lighting and so on. I believe it’s called (Evocation?) Anyway your specialist character battles a another Wizard, of the same Level as yours, and she is proficient in all the schools of magic. Wouldn’t she have the advantage in a battle? Granted your character has more spells slots, of the one school of magic. But She can cast let say…. {Maze or Stun}on you. And as your trapped for a few rounds, she casts a few spells like bringing in Summand creatures/ Skull Tarp or Fear Spells. When you pop up from the Maze spell or shake off the Stun Spell; you get hit with the explosion from the Skull Trap, and then attacked by a bunch of Creatures. Sure you are shooting Magic missals, and Acid Darts, or whatever, at the creatures when you come back. But the enemy Wizard is already casting a third spell at you. Basically she is over whelming your limited school spells, with a verity of others.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 07-01-04, 07:49 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels Umm... you can't get any of the Neth Arcanist special abilities, except epic spellcasting, as an epic feat and especially not as a general feat or archmage special ability. The other stuff (everything other than epic spellcasting) is completely unique to the NA. I don't know how you might think otherwise. Epic Spell Focus and Greater are general feats. But you are right about the others, I thought that I had read somewhere about the others having to do with something else. But it still lacks that old Netheril Charm.
Silmarien Aldalome 07-03-04, 12:07 AM	@TDoA+Xun Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels Good things: Just about everything. You gain epic spellcasting as a bonus feat Epic Spell Focus and Greater ESF Backlash Resistance (!) This is pretty cool. The capacity to access higher DCs and better spells. Plus the ability to specialize (and gain the benifits thereof) in several epic seeds Significant reduction in the cost of epic spells As is this. My only real gripe is that there is no caster level advancement. Though, a few "Practiced Spellcaster" or whatever from the complete divine can take care of that easy. It doesn't seem to make much sense to block level advancement. Most PrC's seem to procure a "block" or goodies across 5/10 levels worth. I agree with you - the spirit of the Netherese was "on-going" discovery. I also think there should be options for "altered spell slots" and so on - but this gets to the matter of Mystra again.... @Agudo G'day Agudo - welcome! Interesting. The matter of Spell caster strategy is a lively area, methinks. I've got a tome called Ultimate Prestige Classes - and there are various options for spellcasters in it. Variations on offensive and defensive casting. It's great. You're right I think. Two more ideas come to mind: spell-chain contingencies, quickened spells. And maybe new ways of casting more than one spell per round. Also - variations on dispel magic are really important. Free Action dispels in particular.... regards guyz stav
Agudo Archmage 07-03-04, 01:07 AM	Silmarien Aldalome G'day Agudo - welcome! Interesting. The matter of Spell caster strategy is a lively area, methinks. I've got a tome called Ultimate Prestige Classes - and there are various options for spellcasters in it. Variations on offensive and defensive casting. It's great. You're right I think. Two more ideas come to mind: spell-chain contingencies, quickened spells. And maybe new ways of casting more than one spell per round. Also - variations on dispel magic are really important. Free Action dispels in particular The Spell chain contingencies, quickened spells would help the solo school Char in the early part of the battle. Granted the Multi School Wizard, may know those spells as well and at best, even the odds for a short time. Maybe some magical items could also help the Solo School Wizard in the fight. Wand of Stun or Fear could help. See ya around Stav :angel:
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 07-04-04, 04:36 PM	I think there should be a Mentalist PrC that you can obtain first before becoming an Arcanist.........Hmmm how should a mentalist go....*gears in head are spinning*
Silmarien Aldalome 07-04-04, 09:24 PM	Thanx Agudo - and hi there Xun. I'd love to know more about the Mentalist. I'd add a bit about the Chaotic Neutral nature of Mystryl - and how this might cast through spell systems. I.e. lotso ways of adding degrees of freedom to casting. Some ideas for Wizards at later points in the battle - (aside from "run away") - Tensers Transformation, and Iron Body. To give a HP boost to the party. If it's looking too grim - erm, Teleport might be best.... *smiles*
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 07-12-04, 09:31 PM	Now....Should a Netherese Arcanist use shadow magic instead of the Weave?
TheDarkestOfAngels 07-13-04, 01:34 AM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek Now....Should a Netherese Arcanist use shadow magic instead of the Weave? ... why? The shadow weave wasn't even around when the netherease were even around. I would assume all their power is based around Mystra's weave.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 07-13-04, 10:17 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels ... why? The shadow weave wasn't even around when the netherease were even around. I would assume all their power is based around Mystra's weave. All of the Netherese now, except for Larloch use Shadow weave.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 07-24-04, 03:40 PM	When I think of a mentalist, I think of a major specialist wizard. Master of maybe two or three schools, but with major major advantages.
Silmarien Aldalome 07-27-04, 09:17 AM	I've always struggled with the term "mentalist" - it echoes Psionics, in my mind. A small thing. Should a Netherese Arcanist use shadow magic instead of the Weave? You mean Shadow Weave magic right? On that basis - I'd imagine that it should be OK to. I'm thinking of Telemont Tanthul here, and City of Shades. I've been giving thinking to the idea of "Meta-Rending" of the Weave. In this model, we're not talking about geographically confined DMZ's, we're talking about metaphysical "rending" of the Weave - Realmspace Wide Meta-Rending. And in a way that doesn't knock out the Power Grid, but alters its functionality. Any ideas folks? stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 07-28-04, 09:49 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome I've always struggled with the term "mentalist" - it echoes Psionics, in my mind. A small thing. You mean Shadow Weave magic right? On that basis - I'd imagine that it should be OK to. I'm thinking of Telemont Tanthul here, and City of Shades. I've been giving thinking to the idea of "Meta-Rending" of the Weave. In this model, we're not talking about geographically confined DMZ's, we're talking about metaphysical "rending" of the Weave - Realmspace Wide Meta-Rending. And in a way that doesn't knock out the Power Grid, but alters its functionality. Any ideas folks? stav Hmmm very interesting. Please state more. Yes I ment shadow weave.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 08-07-04, 09:01 PM	I would imagine a Mentalist as a super specialist. Big time enchanter.
TheDarkestOfAngels 08-07-04, 09:38 PM	Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek I would imagine a Mentalist as a super specialist. Big time enchanter. Well, I think a "mentalist" (which would be, I guess, a spellcaster dedicated to manipulating minds) could manifest in D&D as either an enchanter (specialist wizard), sorcerer (that selected mostly enchantment spells), or a psion (telepath). Originally posted by XunValDorl of HouseKilsek All of the Netherese now, except for Larloch use Shadow weave. Do they? The only ones remaining however don't really constitute a civilization. Just a few, powerful survivors and those survivors use the shadow weave, but that doesn't indicate that the ancient magic of Netheril had then or has now anything to do with the shadow weave. THe current affiliation is for different reasons, I'm sure. (I don't know how many "survivors" of netheril are still around, but aren't most of them evil liches anyway? I might just be thinking of Larloc.)
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 08-08-04, 11:14 PM	Originally posted by TheDarkestOfAngels Well, I think a "mentalist" (which would be, I guess, a spellcaster dedicated to manipulating minds) could manifest in D&D as either an enchanter (specialist wizard), sorcerer (that selected mostly enchantment spells), or a psion (telepath). Do they? The only ones remaining however don't really constitute a civilization. Just a few, powerful survivors and those survivors use the shadow weave, but that doesn't indicate that the ancient magic of Netheril had then or has now anything to do with the shadow weave. THe current affiliation is for different reasons, I'm sure. (I don't know how many "survivors" of netheril are still around, but aren't most of them evil liches anyway? I might just be thinking of Larloc.) Telemaunt is still around, but he isn't a lich. I believe Larloch and Telemaunt are the only true Netherese still around.
Delrith 09-06-04, 07:24 PM	hi can i join. :D :fight!: :schemes: :behold: :devil:
Silmarien Aldalome 09-07-04, 10:39 PM	hi can i join. :D :fight!: :schemes: :behold: :devil: G'day and welcome here as well.... To the discussion: As far as I know, the only Archwizards left are of Shades, hence the association to the Shadow Weave. However, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. There's a whole underground movement of Chosen and Magisters. The Elves also have as yet, unrevealed magical secrets. As I've said elsewhere, they stole the Nether Scrolls from the Netherese with the blink of an eye. Telemont Tanthul, though, may have difficulty casting his spells under Mystra's Bans. That is, unless Shadow Weave is unaffected by Mystra's Ban. In any case, there's a struggle to reconcile Epic Level Magic with Mystra's Ban. Especially, when one considers that there's a spell in the Epic Level handbook called Sever Mountain (or something like that). I.e. that 11th level function should not work under Mystra's Bans. stav
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 10-29-04, 12:50 AM	G'day and welcome here as well.... To the discussion: As far as I know, the only Archwizards left are of Shades, hence the association to the Shadow Weave. However, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. There's a whole underground movement of Chosen and Magisters. The Elves also have as yet, unrevealed magical secrets. As I've said elsewhere, they stole the Nether Scrolls from the Netherese with the blink of an eye. Telemont Tanthul, though, may have difficulty casting his spells under Mystra's Bans. That is, unless Shadow Weave is unaffected by Mystra's Ban. In any case, there's a struggle to reconcile Epic Level Magic with Mystra's Ban. Especially, when one considers that there's a spell in the Epic Level handbook called Sever Mountain (or something like that). I.e. that 11th level function should not work under Mystra's Bans. stav Mystra's bane should have no affect on the shadow weave....
ChaosEvoker 11-18-04, 07:46 AM	First of all, I'd like to request to join. Yeah, the Shadow Weave is totally unaffected by Mystra. In fact, the FR book says taht the Shadow Weave functions in Dead Magic and Wild Magic zones normally. However there are Shadow Dead and WIld Magic zones that weave users can function in normally.
thasis 11-18-04, 06:00 PM	Unfourtnetyly so say but this Foundation is pretty dead. Very few people still post here. I could help restart it with you though if you want.
Xen155 11-19-04, 07:30 PM	Well Thasis if Evoker is not going to take you up on that idea i will.
thasis 11-19-04, 08:19 PM	Kewl. I think the idea rocks. So, first thing is a topic. It has to be something to do with Arcane Magic.
Xen155 11-19-04, 08:44 PM	Creation or application perhaps?
Xen155 11-20-04, 01:26 PM	I would really like to get this Foundastion going again, if anyone has suggesdtions please post them!
thasis 11-20-04, 04:06 PM	Don't have any. Sorry.
Xen155 11-20-04, 05:24 PM	mmmmm, maybe that is why this placed died out, nothing to talk about.
thasis 11-20-04, 05:44 PM	We could design a Prc together based on arcane magic.
Xen155 11-20-04, 05:47 PM	Sounds like a good plan.
thasis 11-20-04, 07:23 PM	Now lets pop out some ideas. Me thinks that we needs some Summoners. A Summoner Prc (properly done) would be great.
Xen155 11-20-04, 08:16 PM	Yeah, but what would it summon, perhaps a specific plane summoner. Like, Chosses what plane he summons from when taking the class.
thasis 11-20-04, 08:38 PM	Ya, thats a cool idea. I would so take levels in abysall summoner.
Xen155 11-20-04, 08:39 PM	Seriuosly, who would mess with a guy who can summon a Balor and control him in a turn?
Xen155 11-20-04, 08:42 PM	He should be able to agument his summonings to, like make the summoned creature stronger or alter the creature in some way. You kinow what would be wierd, a Far Plane summoner
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-21-04, 01:03 AM	Well helllo people, I am glad that people are starting to post here again... Well there is a Summoner PrC it's in the Relics and Rituals book.. Anyway, I would like to see a larger summoning list...The ones that they have just are not long enough.... I would like to be able to summon a bit more monsters....Like a Pit Fiend, or Balor etc... You know the powerful stuff....
Xen155 11-21-04, 01:04 AM	Wow i thought you were dead, but definently a good idea
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-21-04, 01:06 AM	Wow i thought you were dead, but definently a good idea How about we expand the summoning list, and create a better summoner....Oh check this out, our DM in one of our games allows us to use the Twin spell feat with our summoning spells...
Xen155 11-21-04, 01:13 AM	:eek:
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-21-04, 01:17 AM	It's awesome when you can summon 2 bebiliths at the same time...
thasis 11-21-04, 12:47 PM	I did know there was already a Summoner Prc but I think we should do a better one. The other option is to do a Core Class Summoner. I think that would be cool. We could do it as the Ultimate Classes to. You get to specilize and then you gain abilities based on your specilization. It might take a while but it will be fun and it will keep this place active.
Dyne 11-21-04, 01:06 PM	Are the Casters of the Arcane participating in the IFWG? If so, you may face some competition from the Council of Archmages.
Xen155 11-21-04, 01:48 PM	Dyne, first of all, this place really has only had three people post on it in the past like 3 months, 4 if we include you, now i don't declare what this foundation will and will not do, but i dont think it will. Right now we are just disscussing a PRC that we want to make. And even if we did decide to participate in the Foundation wars, why would we be COMPETING against the Council?
Xen155 11-21-04, 02:06 PM	On the subject of are summoner. Would he get Arcane spells? if so what type of casting WIZ or SORC?
thasis 11-21-04, 10:01 PM	I think he should get a limited arcane spell access other then summon spells since he devotes so much time to summoning.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 11-21-04, 10:21 PM	Dyne, first of all, this place really has only had three people post on it in the past like 3 months, 4 if we include you, now i don't declare what this foundation will and will not do, but i dont think it will. Right now we are just disscussing a PRC that we want to make. And even if we did decide to participate in the Foundation wars, why would we be COMPETING against the Council? Xen I don't think so much Dyne is saying that he thinks the Caster of the Arcane will try to compete against the CoA rather that the CoA will try to compete against the Casters of the Arcane. Also beware - I have ordained Dyne as the new In-game leader of the foundation. His word (in-game) is law. He says war and its war-time baby :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: Yeehaw! -Frosty
Dyne 11-21-04, 10:29 PM	Xen I don't think so much Dyne is saying that he thinks the Caster of the Arcane will try to compete against the CoA rather that the CoA will try to compete against the Casters of the Arcane. Also beware - I have ordained Dyne as the new In-game leader of the foundation. His word (in-game) is law. He says war and its war-time baby :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: Yeehaw! -Frosty There's no need for a war. I meant that there would be competition between the CoA and the CotAF if the CotAF joined the IFWG because they would both try to fill the same niche: spellcasting. It's just like if an adventuring party has two wizards: both will compete to be the superior spellcaster. But, it's also possible for those two wizards to cooperate, preparing their spells in a way that allows each spell that is needed to be able to be cast. One wizard might specialize in combat, while the other chooses spells that would benefit the group in another way, such as illusions, spells that buffer his allies, and spells that are just tools to make things easier for adventuring. Now, we've derailed the topic enough. I didn't come here to start a flame war. For a summoner, I would think they would get all sorts of abilities that make them especially good at casting Conjurations, particularly those that summon creatures to fight for them. The Prestige Class might require Augment Summoning, and would in exchange an improved form of Augment Summoning that becomes even better as the character gains levels in Summoner. Also, for requirements, you could make them be specialized in the School of Conjuration, have the Augment Summoning feat, have the Spell Focus feat in Conjuration, etc. P.S. Ever since getting my butt whooped by Summoners in Final Fantasy Tactics, I've always wanted to be a sort of Summoner in D&D. Good luck on the class, guys.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-22-04, 07:09 AM	First of all, I don't want people coming into my foundation who are going to talk about competition like we are local businesses.... We are here to discuss all things arcane, and it is open for anyone... I don't do any of the stupid rankings, because everyone that comes here is equal....All ideas are shared with equal credit for the one who came up with it....I am not part of some war, if you want to come here and discuss the topics fine, but don't come here if you are going to start trouble cause I will turn you in....thank you....
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-22-04, 07:11 AM	Back to Summoning....I think the class should have an ability to allow the creatures summoned to be able to stay and fight longer....One round a level isn't always enough.....
thasis 11-22-04, 09:51 AM	Very true. I think this was oready metioned but improving the summoned monsters stats would be pretty cool. I personally think that this class needs to be a core class and/or have a bunch of feats that go with it to improve summoning. And maybe some new spells. Thats just my thought.
Xen155 11-22-04, 11:33 AM	Very true. I think this was oready metioned but improving the summoned monsters stats would be pretty cool. I personally think that this class needs to be a core class and/or have a bunch of feats that go with it to improve summoning. And maybe some new spells. Thats just my thought. New feats and spells sound like an excellent idea, we could just make our own list of spells seperate form the Sorc/Wiz list, take spells from it and fill in with our own made spells (and maybe some from the CoA library). As for feats, definently need to make some of are own, i know maybe two that agument summoning ability, so we need to make some new feats. As for spells from the Sorc/Wiz, he should get alot of beef up spells and protection spells.
thasis 11-22-04, 08:07 PM	Yay!!! My ideas have been takin into acount.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-22-04, 09:33 PM	Yes definitely new feats and abilities...... A cool feat would be one that makes it harder for Summoned Creatures to be dispelled... I think they should have less spells to choose from than normal wizards, but have more spells per day to memorize...
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-22-04, 10:56 PM	I have a good idea for the first ability of the summoner...Give them Spontaneous Summon Monster spells.....
thasis 11-22-04, 11:55 PM	Thats a good idea. Me likes. Quick question, What should this be? A core class or a Prc? I say core class. what does everyone else think?
Xen155 11-22-04, 11:56 PM	I say core.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-23-04, 12:08 AM	Let's try a core class first, then try a PrC...... Basically with the core idea, we will be a Specialist Summoner, but better....
thasis 11-23-04, 09:40 AM	OK then. Now, for the base stats. What should he Base attack and Saves be like. I'm thinking average Base Attack (like Rouge or Cleric), Low Fort and Ref, and High Will.
Xen155 11-23-04, 11:18 AM	Yeah, should he be more physical than the Sorc or wiz? Low fort and Ref, High Will.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-23-04, 07:55 PM	I honestly think that he should have the normal stats of the wizard....
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-23-04, 11:35 PM	I have come up with a cool idea..... How about we give the summoner the ability to travel to other planes in order to study creatures from other planes so that he can expand his monster summoning lists?????
thasis 11-24-04, 12:12 AM	Thats a good idea. It's more of a higher or mid level ability.
Xen155 11-24-04, 01:20 AM	I have come up with a cool idea..... How about we give the summoner the ability to travel to other planes in order to study creatures from other planes so that he can expand his monster summoning lists????? Excellent, it should also let him gain the names of specific of creatures.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-25-04, 12:17 AM	Excellent, it should also let him gain the names of specific of creatures. Thats correct....Hmm what level should he gain this though?
Xen155 11-25-04, 12:52 AM	At a level where he can go to a hostile plane and survive for any amount of time.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-25-04, 01:10 AM	I would say maybe around 10th????
Xen155 11-25-04, 01:14 AM	Ok, so at tenth level they gain.... Planar Excursion or something.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-25-04, 01:26 AM	Yeah....or the spell from Manual of the Planes... I have the book in the car, but it allows you to survive on hostile planes....
Xen155 11-25-04, 01:35 AM	Avoid Planat effects?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-27-04, 10:18 AM	Avoid Planat effects? Yes I think that was it......I believe their were versions of it....Lower protected you less and so on.....
thasis 11-27-04, 12:12 PM	So... my idea is that as you gain levels you can summon more powerful creatures. At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter you get a Summoning feat (a custom feat that allows you to emphasise/increase your spellcasting ability) and inbetween you get various Planar specials such as surviving hostile enviroments on other planes of exsistince. I also think we should call the class the Planar Summoner. Those are my primary ideas. What do you think?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-27-04, 12:30 PM	So... my idea is that as you gain levels you can summon more powerful creatures. At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter you get a Summoning feat (a custom feat that allows you to emphasise/increase your spellcasting ability) and inbetween you get various Planar specials such as surviving hostile enviroments on other planes of exsistince. I also think we should call the class the Planar Summoner. Those are my primary ideas. What do you think? Planar Summoner..Hmmmm I like that...I like that indeed...It sounds good to me....... Also I had an idea....How about at certain levels or something..The Summoner could beef up a creature or creatures, give them items, permanency etc... And be able to choose those favorite creatures when he is summoning. The ability could be called Favored Summons... ?
thasis 11-27-04, 12:47 PM	I likes, I likes alot. On the beefing up the creatures, it should only be for his favored summon. If he wants to beef up creatures of other types he should take the summoning feats.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-27-04, 01:49 PM	I likes, I likes alot. On the beefing up the creatures, it should only be for his favored summon. If he wants to beef up creatures of other types he should take the summoning feats. Yeah..It would kinda be like having a figureine of Wonderous Power, but the creature is whatever you can summon, and you don't have to carry around the figure...
Xen155 11-27-04, 04:35 PM	Should she chose what plane he summons from like a wizard chooses her spell school?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-28-04, 12:44 AM	Should she chose what plane he summons from like a wizard chooses her spell school? That would be kinda cool......Hmmmmm actually that would be really cool....
thasis 11-28-04, 01:29 AM	I would have to say I agree. It might make it to limiting for a core class to make it so that he cannot summon creatures from any other planes though. We could make it work like the Wizards school specilization though. You choose one you specilize in and you choose one or more that you can't draw power/creatures from.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-28-04, 03:55 PM	I would have to say I agree. It might make it to limiting for a core class to make it so that he cannot summon creatures from any other planes though. We could make it work like the Wizards school specilization though. You choose one you specilize in and you choose one or more that you can't draw power/creatures from. That might work....... I am trying to piece it together on paper now.....
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-28-04, 09:03 PM	I would request membership in this guild, since in my opinion arcane casters are the best classes and characters in the game, epecially sorcerers (to any of you wizard lovers, bring it on! :mage: :mage: :mage: :mage: :mage: ).
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-28-04, 10:53 PM	I would request membership in this guild, since in my opinion arcane casters are the best classes and characters in the game, epecially sorcerers (to any of you wizard lovers, bring it on! :mage: :mage: :mage: :mage: :mage: ). Sure Chosen you are more than welcome to join....Just please read the rules on the first thread if you haven't already...Thank you...
thasis 11-28-04, 11:57 PM	Welcome Chosen of the Dark Sun. Nice to see new faces. Are you planning on helping us on are design of the Planar Summoner. I truly hope you are. We realy would like new faces to help us and provide there own thoughts on the matter. On the topic of the Summoner. We should start to go into more specifics on the class. We got a general idea of what we're going to do. Just to remind everyone what we've got compiled here's all the ideas: -Favored Plane to Summon from -Feats to boost Summoning abilities -Powers to boost Summoning abilities when summoning creatures from your favored plane(s) -A spell list with spells from only the conjuration school -Larger list of creatures to be able to summon -High Will save -Low Fort and Ref save Thats all I remember. Any other ideas?
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-29-04, 06:06 PM	Augmented summoning as a bonus feat. Maybe something like 5th level. Maybe gaining the ability to use so and so meta-magic feat on summoning spells without higher level slot at a certain number of times a day. Also, maybe Contingency summoning, you know, setting a key for an auto summon.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 11-30-04, 09:49 PM	I had mentioned spontaneous summoning earlier....
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-02-04, 11:16 PM	Hey thasis? Are you still working on the class?
thasis 12-03-04, 05:50 PM	Yep, I'm here. I just got Civilization III a couple days ago so I took a break from the forums to play that. So, were did we leave off.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-03-04, 10:15 PM	I was still trying to put all the ideas on paper. I am still working on it.
thasis 12-03-04, 10:24 PM	Excellent. Anything that I can do?
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-05-04, 12:20 AM	Try putting it on paper your own way and see what you come up with.
thasis 12-05-04, 01:17 AM	I'll see if I get time.
MoronPunisher 12-06-04, 12:55 AM	Hey guys. Can I Play Too? To be fully honest. VT was asking for strategy advice on his up coming guild war thing and the idea got me interested. I've got a cold mage I've been iching to try out. I click here cause it looks apropraite and there are serious discussion of mechanics going on. All good here. Mind if I join?
thasis 12-06-04, 09:52 AM	I wouldn't mind. Right now we're designing a Summoner Class. Wanna help?
MoronPunisher 12-06-04, 04:06 PM	Sure, though I'm more the Evoker/Transuter Wiz/Sorc kinda guy Have you guys thought of this? Class Feature: MetaSpell: Every 3rd level the mage can take a spell they know related to Summoning and permenatly attach a metamagic feat to it at one less the normal metamagic feat penalty. The mage permanently knows this new spell and at later MetaSpell times the mage may either pick a new spell to adapt or chose an already chosen spell with a matemagic feat attached, which lessens the metamagic spell penalty one more slot. This may only be done until the MetaSpell is at the same level the spell normally would be at. The spell must be known, but the mage only has to meet the minimum requirements for the metamagic feat and only has to know of it's existance.
Xen155 12-12-04, 02:09 AM	Bump, just wanted to remind everybody about this place. I want that PC! (without any work of course ;) )
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-12-04, 04:22 PM	Bump, just wanted to remind everybody about this place. I want that PC! (without any work of course ;) ) Of course...... I am still working on getting it on paper.
thasis 12-12-04, 04:32 PM	Yes, me to. It's taking a while to actualy sit down and start writing for me. To much stuff to do thats non-gaming. I havn't been realy doing much gaming latly unfourtnetly.
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-12-04, 06:07 PM	Yes, me to. It's taking a while to actualy sit down and start writing for me. To much stuff to do thats non-gaming. I havn't been realy doing much gaming latly unfourtnetly. Same here.......
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 12-15-04, 11:10 PM	Gotta bump this here guild up :bump:
XunValDorl of HouseKilsek 02-20-05, 11:37 PM	Hey I can't have my foundation die here. Hmm whats something we can touch base on.......... Ahh I got it. In my gaming experience, I have found that the best item for a spellcaster is a Ring of Sustenance. Instead of having to rest for 8 hours, you only need to rest 2 then take the normal time for preparing and meditating.