Districts and resources. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Districts and resources. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jagggar
11-19-05, 08:26 PM Feel free to discuss.

It is highly unlikely that we will be getting rid of districts all together, but this will help us gain a direction to go in.

More polls will likely follow to get a clearer idea of things.
Dyne
11-19-05, 09:07 PM Get rid of resources? Who could think of such a thing!
Kobold_Ur_Priest
11-19-05, 10:20 PM why DID we use districts anyway, i mean, assuming we all started on the Material Plane, albeit the fact of separate regions, countries,etc. each guild could still maintain its place, though not neccessarily on the Material Plane...Im sure the GoPG and GoUE would not like to exist close to each other ( within the same planar boundaries ) and the Temple of the Damned would probably find a place like Carceri home.
Demonfey
11-19-05, 11:08 PM Easier to figure out how far people have to go to begin beating eachother up
Kobold_Ur_Priest
11-20-05, 12:16 AM Easier to figure out how far people have to go to begin beating eachother up
yes, you're right i guess, but if someone actually has a stationary residence, you can find them either way, on a map or with divination
Demonfey
11-20-05, 12:20 AM That's what the districts are on, Priest.
Kobold_Ur_Priest
11-20-05, 01:00 AM That's what the districts are on, Priest.
the map? i know, but i meant like say...someone had their guild on the Material Plane, another on Celestia, and one located in the Abyss, they would have a stationary place and would be able to be located through divination,maps,etc, but i think there should be an arena of sorts where each guild would come to conduct business/battle/etc
Demonfey
11-20-05, 01:04 AM Because that would just make it a pain to work out for the GMs.
necrodude16
11-20-05, 01:27 AM Because that would just make it a pain to work out for the GMs.

:yes:

You should see what i have planned for the Map :)
Tenzhi
11-20-05, 01:46 AM Easier to figure out how far people have to go to begin beating eachother up

How could it be easer than: 100 yards to that portal over there.

With all the diversity involved, a multi-planar setup makes more sense and is easier to deal with in the long run. The Beldagruk Lords of the Ice Lava certainly aren't going to be on the same plane as Rin-tin-tin Dalos and the Killer Hounds from the Fourth Dimension.
necrodude16
11-20-05, 01:50 AM The Beldagruk Lords of the Ice Lava certainly aren't going to be on the same plane as Rin-tin-tin Dalos and the Killer Hounds from the Fourth Dimension.

Yes, That makes sense but they all have at least one guild house on Tyrannor.
Dyne
11-20-05, 01:52 AM How could it be easer than: 100 yards to that portal over there.

With all the diversity involved, a multi-planar setup makes more sense and is easier to deal with in the long run. The Beldagruk Lords of the Ice Lava certainly aren't going to be on the same plane as Rin-tin-tin Dalos and the Killer Hounds from the Fourth Dimension.

But, it's D&D, the Material Plane is where everything happens.

Of course, I think it should be an option to have places on other planes as well. Especially for guilds like the Children of the Planes. All that would take is some maps of additional planes.
Demonfey
11-20-05, 01:53 AM How could it be easer than: 100 yards to that portal over there.

With all the diversity involved, a multi-planar setup makes more sense and is easier to deal with in the long run. The Beldagruk Lords of the Ice Lava certainly aren't going to be on the same plane as Rin-tin-tin Dalos and the Killer Hounds from the Fourth Dimension.
Well, that was before he elaborated.
Tenzhi
11-20-05, 02:00 AM Yes, That makes sense but they all have at least one guild house on Tyrannor.

Indeed. Tyrannor: City of Guilds. Which should be in its own plane as well.
necrodude16
11-20-05, 02:17 AM Indeed. Tyrannor: City of Guilds. Which should be in its own plane as well.

I actually ment on the plane Tyrannor. The map of the plane is complete. It's what i will do with it that's cool.

:D

I'll get the map up ASAP ;)
Tenzhi
11-20-05, 02:45 AM I actually ment on the plane Tyrannor.

I'm still of the mind that the plane of Tyrannor and the city of Tyrannor should've been one and the same. Perhaps because the Foundation/Guild Wars/Tyrannor setup is so very reminiscent of the Factions/Powers/Sigil setup.

And given the relative small scale of players, interacting via Arena combat, raids, and political maneuvering makes much more sense than moving around armies. Especially when you have a relatively large, neutral, and probably powerful city that's liable to be caught between any given two armies and isn't going to be happy about it. And D&D is better than Chainmail anyway. :P
jagggar
11-22-05, 12:37 AM Dyne, how about moving simplification ideas/rules over here. Meta's about to get closed, and this is nice and fresh.
Dyne
11-22-05, 12:49 AM -Get rid of Assets/Resource Centers in favor of Guild Outposts, which collect resources, recruit followers (bonus to Guild Leadership), and collect taxes (or tithes, call it what you want).
-Benevolum, Chaotica, Harmonium, and Malevocor are scrapped. All the districts with those resources are changed to something else.
-Asset Actions are scrapped because they aren't necessary, and Magical Foci are scrapped because their mechanic is just weird.
-Cattle is scrapped in favor of Food and Leather.
-Maybe more districts can have multiple resources, such as the above Food and Leather. In such a case, Resource Centers might remain seperate from Guild Outposts, and to collect multiple resources in a district would require multiple Resource Centers.
-More of the valuable resources (adamantine, mithril, gold). Currently, they can only be found in one district each. As above, the valuable resources could be mixed with less valuable resources (food, leather, iron, wood, stone), and this combo might limit the competition over resources.
-Put a district between the Lowland Forests and Deeping Quarry. I'm tired of looking at that blank spot, and it'll become more awkward and apparent when district borders are drawn out. Maybe add a few more districts in blank spots.
jagggar
11-22-05, 07:17 PM Food I assure you, should not be considered less-valuable. I plan, after a few rounds, to limit the market. You won't be able to just go out and buy food at a standard rate.

I think having multiple resources per district would lean towards the confusing. (I could always make a poll.)

I'm tempted to say we should set all non-city districts to DL 0 and have all city districts start at DL 1 or DL 2.

Do you mind if I email you? (Still got your addy.) Because there's been a sort of request for something I'd want to make special rules for. And I think privately talking about it might be better for starters.
gabrion
11-22-05, 11:09 PM I voted no to the poll, but if we are going to keep all the resource stuff around, I'll offer my opinions on it.

We want simplicity right? Why not go with an RTS setup, where "resource" is a generic term, and simply represents an increase of wealth over time? I think every district could have an income/resource (or what every you want to call it), and the people of that area could add flavor by deciding what exactly it is that they produce.

For instance, two districts could each have an income rating of "1" (whatever that might mean...it's arbitrary to begin with), but that could represent cattle production in one area and a small gold mine in the other.

Along with this, an upkeep/capita could be established, so some of the income would always go toward food, housing, etc.

Thoughts?
Dyne
11-22-05, 11:51 PM I voted no to the poll, but if we are going to keep all the resource stuff around, I'll offer my opinions on it.

We want simplicity right? Why not go with an RTS setup, where "resource" is a generic term, and simply represents an increase of wealth over time? I think every district could have an income/resource (or what every you want to call it), and the people of that area could add flavor by deciding what exactly it is that they produce.

For instance, two districts could each have an income rating of "1" (whatever that might mean...it's arbitrary to begin with), but that could represent cattle production in one area and a small gold mine in the other.

Along with this, an upkeep/capita could be established, so some of the income would always go toward food, housing, etc.

Thoughts?

Personally, I'd like to keep as much of the old system intact as possible, but that's probably just because I helped work on it originally.

The point of specifying different resources is that people can actually build stuff immediately with the resources. You can use the natural resources to eliminate the costs of resources that's always included in items. For example, it's a lot cheaper to make an adamantine sword when you have a supply of adamantine (in fact, if you have enough adamantine, you can make one yourself with no cost).

I think, in some regard, we need to take into account that absolutely everyone doesn't have to know these rules inside and out. The guildmasters are the ones playing the resource and district game. My aim would be to keep the old system as a model, eliminate what seems to just be unnecessary, and simplify what is too difficult. I'd still like to see the spirit of the old system make it through, though. Perhaps we should get KB to help us out on this one, since he was the original creator.

EDIT: Jagggar, could you clear some PM space?
jagggar
11-23-05, 12:20 AM And if the guildmasters can't/doesn't want to handle it but another member of the guild would like to step up, they should feel free to do so.

As far as I'm concerned, a straight gold amount, even when based on District Level (or "income rating" as you called it) is our eventual fall-back plan if this doesn't work out.

By presetting the resources, we hope to create actual supply and demand which will give guilds another cause for war if they can't negotiate for the resources they need.
Dyne
11-23-05, 12:22 AM By presetting the resources, we hope to create actual supply and demand which will give guilds another cause for war if they can't negotiate for the resources they need.

It'll also give them another reason to cooperate with one another, to trade for the resources they need.
Demonfey
11-23-05, 12:28 AM And if the guildmasters can't/doesn't want to handle it but another member of the guild would like to step up, they should feel free to do so.

As far as I'm concerned, a straight gold amount, even when based on District Level (or "income rating" as you called it) is our eventual fall-back plan if this doesn't work out.

By presetting the resources, we hope to create actual supply and demand which will give guilds another cause for war if they can't negotiate for the resources they need.
And bargaining chips.
Wilds
11-23-05, 12:57 PM War will be so much easier to finance and cause with resources
Dyne
11-23-05, 10:30 PM EDITED
jagggar
11-24-05, 03:01 AM Price Collected
per Each Turn
Resource Pound per DL
Adamantine 1000 gp 35 lbs
Darkwood 20 gp 1500 lbs
Food 1 cp 2000 lbs
Gold 50 gp 400 lbs
Iron 1 sp 1000 lbs
Mithral 500 gp 70 lbs
Stone 1 cp 20000 lbs
Wood 1 sp 5000 lbs

For reference.

Adamantine, Leather, Stone, and Wood we've kinda pulled out of our donkeys.
Darkwood is calculated from it's entry as well as Food.
Gold, Iron, and Mithral are straight from the books.

Hmm, you mentioned something about looking for prices earlier. Do you think you might be able to find a weight/area for stone? Wood too, but that might be a bit annoyng (Hardwood? Softwood? Hard softwood? Soft hardwood?) My wood.

Wood. . . Something simple like oak maybe.
gabrion
11-24-05, 11:11 AM Well since you all seem set on it, I won't interfere much more, but let me offer my objections once more before silencing myself. I still think a generic income/resource system would serve us much better (by which I mean it might actually work).

I know that you all want different resources and what not in order to simulate a real market economy, but I don't think people realize how complex such an undertaking must be. Setting up an artificial economy that actually allows market forces to work properly (which is what you seem to be trying to do), is difficult enought that some of the most brillian minds in the real world have not been able to do it.

Like I said though, if you guys are confident that you can pull it off, then I'll just sit back and watch the show. Good luck.
jagggar
11-24-05, 11:44 PM Price Collected
per Each Turn Value Sale
Resource Pound per DL in GP Value
Adamantine 1000 gp 35 lbs 35,000 17,500
Darkwood 20 gp 1500 lbs 30,000 15,000
Food 1 cp 2000 lbs 20 10
Gold 50 gp 400 lbs 20,000 20,000
Iron 1 sp 1000 lbs 100 50
Mithral 500 gp 70 lbs 35,000 17,500
Stone 1 cp 20000 lbs 200 100
Wood 1 sp 5000 lbs 500 250

Yet again: Reference!
Since my email refuses to make nice pretty charts.
Tenzhi
11-24-05, 11:46 PM I still think a generic income/resource system would serve us much better (by which I mean it might actually work).

I agree with gabrion. Think about that for a minute.
gabrion
11-25-05, 02:39 AM I agree with gabrion. Think about that for a minute.

And for some reason I'm craving elf Cordon Blue all of a sudden... :thinks:
jagggar
12-17-05, 05:49 PM Few notes: This is incomplete at this time. (gotta head off to a party soon, and want to make sure this is safe incase my computer chooses to go haywire)
Rules Team 2, yes, there probably are some changes from what we may have thought we decided.

Districts and Resources

Our districts and resources system introduces a few new concepts:
Districts - Cities divided up into districts. Each district has room for a Guild Outpost.
District Level (DL) - District Level represents population and productivity of both Districts and Territories. District Levels range from 0-5. District Level can be raised by feeding the people food or lowered by slaughtering a district's people (see below for details). For most calculations, DL 0 is treated as 1/2.
Guild Outpost - A guild outpost represents the guild's infuence in that district or territory. It may act as a military force, religous center, or perhaps control that district's markets. The guild which owns a guild outpost adds that district's DL to it's Guild Leadership Score.
Resources - Resources are food, iron, stone, wood, gold, and special materials such as adamantine, darkwood, and mithral. These are collected from territories every turn.
Resource Center - A resource center represents the farms, mines, or saw mills a territory might have. Owning a resource center provides your guild with the resources that territory produces each turn.
Tech Level (TL) - Tech Level represents the wide spread use of more effecient ways of collecting resources. A territory with a higher tech level will produce more of it's resource every turn. All territories start with a Tech Level of 0.
Territory - A territory has enough room for a Guild Outpost and a Resource Center.

Acquiring Guild Outposts and Resource Centers

Purchasing
A guild may purchase the rights to a Guild Outpost by paying 100,000 gp per DL.
DL Cost
0 50,000
1 100,000
2 200,000
3 300,000
4 400,000
5 500,000

A guild may purchase the rights to a Resuorce Center by paying 100,000 gp per TL.
TL Cost
0 50,000
1 100,000
2 200,000
3 300,000
4 400,000
5 500,000

When a Guild Outpost is first purchased it comes with a "Cheap Keep" or amount, amount, amount should the new owners of a district have immediate plans for their Guild Outpost construction.
If another guild has previously owned the Guild Outpost then you recieve the stronghold they used as their Guild Outpost.

Military Conquest
A guild may take control of another guild's Guild Outpost by attacking and either defeating or driving off it's owners. Districts or territories without owned Guild Outposts may not be aquired through this method.

When a guild is defeated or driven off from a territory, it is up to the Guild Outpost's new owners if the current owners of the Resource Center may stay. If they are also driven off, the new guild must still pay to aquire the Resource Center.

If a guild refuses to defend itself or respond to an attack within a (real world) week, the attacking guild may choose to decrease the district or territory's level by one perminately (may be repeated once every other week) or to seize half the gold (and resources) until the attack is answered.
GMs may declare that defenders who refuse to defend for an extended period of time automatically lose the rights to the Guild Outpost.

Changing District Level and Tech Level

District Level
District Level is improved by feeding the district 1,000 gp worth of food per DL. It takes one turn to improve DL in this way. (Hoarding food to improve a district from DL 0 to DL 5 will not work.)
DL Food (in gp)
0->1 500
1->2 1,000
2->3 2,000
3->4 3,000
4->5 4,000
5->S 5,000

Tech Level
Tech Level must be improved one step at a time. Tech Level cannot be improved beyond the current District Level. Tech Level is improved by paying the amount shown on the following chart.
TL Cost
0->1 50,000 gp
1->2 100,000 gp
2->3 200,000 gp
3->4 300,000 gp
4->5 400,000 gp

Collections

Districts collect 5,000 gp per DL each turn.
Territories collect 2,500 gp per DL each turn. In addition, territories collected resources. The amount of resources collected is measured in gp. The following chart shows how much of a resource is collected per DL or TL, whichever is lower. The sale value is if you decide to sell the resource to NPCs instead of dealing with PCs
Collected
Value Sale
Resource in GP Value
Adamantine 30,000 15,000
Darkwood 30,000 15,000
Food 200 100
Gold 20,000 20,000
Iron 100 50
Mithral 30,000 15,000
Stone 200 100
Wood 500 250
Dyne
12-17-05, 08:41 PM <<EDITED>>
jagggar
12-18-05, 12:20 PM Okay, someone check how it's doing?

Orcy, Dyne, did we miss anything? I'd like to have this done before Necro gets the map done, just so I can poke him and stick my tongue out at him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jagggar 11-19-05, 08:26 PM	Feel free to discuss. It is highly unlikely that we will be getting rid of districts all together, but this will help us gain a direction to go in. More polls will likely follow to get a clearer idea of things.
Dyne 11-19-05, 09:07 PM	Get rid of resources? Who could think of such a thing!
Kobold_Ur_Priest 11-19-05, 10:20 PM	why DID we use districts anyway, i mean, assuming we all started on the Material Plane, albeit the fact of separate regions, countries,etc. each guild could still maintain its place, though not neccessarily on the Material Plane...Im sure the GoPG and GoUE would not like to exist close to each other ( within the same planar boundaries ) and the Temple of the Damned would probably find a place like Carceri home.
Demonfey 11-19-05, 11:08 PM	Easier to figure out how far people have to go to begin beating eachother up
Kobold_Ur_Priest 11-20-05, 12:16 AM	Easier to figure out how far people have to go to begin beating eachother up yes, you're right i guess, but if someone actually has a stationary residence, you can find them either way, on a map or with divination
Demonfey 11-20-05, 12:20 AM	That's what the districts are on, Priest.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 11-20-05, 01:00 AM	That's what the districts are on, Priest. the map? i know, but i meant like say...someone had their guild on the Material Plane, another on Celestia, and one located in the Abyss, they would have a stationary place and would be able to be located through divination,maps,etc, but i think there should be an arena of sorts where each guild would come to conduct business/battle/etc
Demonfey 11-20-05, 01:04 AM	Because that would just make it a pain to work out for the GMs.
necrodude16 11-20-05, 01:27 AM	Because that would just make it a pain to work out for the GMs. :yes: You should see what i have planned for the Map :)
Tenzhi 11-20-05, 01:46 AM	Easier to figure out how far people have to go to begin beating eachother up How could it be easer than: 100 yards to that portal over there. With all the diversity involved, a multi-planar setup makes more sense and is easier to deal with in the long run. The Beldagruk Lords of the Ice Lava certainly aren't going to be on the same plane as Rin-tin-tin Dalos and the Killer Hounds from the Fourth Dimension.
necrodude16 11-20-05, 01:50 AM	The Beldagruk Lords of the Ice Lava certainly aren't going to be on the same plane as Rin-tin-tin Dalos and the Killer Hounds from the Fourth Dimension. Yes, That makes sense but they all have at least one guild house on Tyrannor.
Dyne 11-20-05, 01:52 AM	How could it be easer than: 100 yards to that portal over there. With all the diversity involved, a multi-planar setup makes more sense and is easier to deal with in the long run. The Beldagruk Lords of the Ice Lava certainly aren't going to be on the same plane as Rin-tin-tin Dalos and the Killer Hounds from the Fourth Dimension. But, it's D&D, the Material Plane is where everything happens. Of course, I think it should be an option to have places on other planes as well. Especially for guilds like the Children of the Planes. All that would take is some maps of additional planes.
Demonfey 11-20-05, 01:53 AM	How could it be easer than: 100 yards to that portal over there. With all the diversity involved, a multi-planar setup makes more sense and is easier to deal with in the long run. The Beldagruk Lords of the Ice Lava certainly aren't going to be on the same plane as Rin-tin-tin Dalos and the Killer Hounds from the Fourth Dimension. Well, that was before he elaborated.
Tenzhi 11-20-05, 02:00 AM	Yes, That makes sense but they all have at least one guild house on Tyrannor. Indeed. Tyrannor: City of Guilds. Which should be in its own plane as well.
necrodude16 11-20-05, 02:17 AM	Indeed. Tyrannor: City of Guilds. Which should be in its own plane as well. I actually ment on the plane Tyrannor. The map of the plane is complete. It's what i will do with it that's cool. :D I'll get the map up ASAP ;)
Tenzhi 11-20-05, 02:45 AM	I actually ment on the plane Tyrannor. I'm still of the mind that the plane of Tyrannor and the city of Tyrannor should've been one and the same. Perhaps because the Foundation/Guild Wars/Tyrannor setup is so very reminiscent of the Factions/Powers/Sigil setup. And given the relative small scale of players, interacting via Arena combat, raids, and political maneuvering makes much more sense than moving around armies. Especially when you have a relatively large, neutral, and probably powerful city that's liable to be caught between any given two armies and isn't going to be happy about it. And D&D is better than Chainmail anyway. :P
jagggar 11-22-05, 12:37 AM	Dyne, how about moving simplification ideas/rules over here. Meta's about to get closed, and this is nice and fresh.
Dyne 11-22-05, 12:49 AM	-Get rid of Assets/Resource Centers in favor of Guild Outposts, which collect resources, recruit followers (bonus to Guild Leadership), and collect taxes (or tithes, call it what you want). -Benevolum, Chaotica, Harmonium, and Malevocor are scrapped. All the districts with those resources are changed to something else. -Asset Actions are scrapped because they aren't necessary, and Magical Foci are scrapped because their mechanic is just weird. -Cattle is scrapped in favor of Food and Leather. -Maybe more districts can have multiple resources, such as the above Food and Leather. In such a case, Resource Centers might remain seperate from Guild Outposts, and to collect multiple resources in a district would require multiple Resource Centers. -More of the valuable resources (adamantine, mithril, gold). Currently, they can only be found in one district each. As above, the valuable resources could be mixed with less valuable resources (food, leather, iron, wood, stone), and this combo might limit the competition over resources. -Put a district between the Lowland Forests and Deeping Quarry. I'm tired of looking at that blank spot, and it'll become more awkward and apparent when district borders are drawn out. Maybe add a few more districts in blank spots.
jagggar 11-22-05, 07:17 PM	Food I assure you, should not be considered less-valuable. I plan, after a few rounds, to limit the market. You won't be able to just go out and buy food at a standard rate. I think having multiple resources per district would lean towards the confusing. (I could always make a poll.) I'm tempted to say we should set all non-city districts to DL 0 and have all city districts start at DL 1 or DL 2. Do you mind if I email you? (Still got your addy.) Because there's been a sort of request for something I'd want to make special rules for. And I think privately talking about it might be better for starters.
gabrion 11-22-05, 11:09 PM	I voted no to the poll, but if we are going to keep all the resource stuff around, I'll offer my opinions on it. We want simplicity right? Why not go with an RTS setup, where "resource" is a generic term, and simply represents an increase of wealth over time? I think every district could have an income/resource (or what every you want to call it), and the people of that area could add flavor by deciding what exactly it is that they produce. For instance, two districts could each have an income rating of "1" (whatever that might mean...it's arbitrary to begin with), but that could represent cattle production in one area and a small gold mine in the other. Along with this, an upkeep/capita could be established, so some of the income would always go toward food, housing, etc. Thoughts?
Dyne 11-22-05, 11:51 PM	I voted no to the poll, but if we are going to keep all the resource stuff around, I'll offer my opinions on it. We want simplicity right? Why not go with an RTS setup, where "resource" is a generic term, and simply represents an increase of wealth over time? I think every district could have an income/resource (or what every you want to call it), and the people of that area could add flavor by deciding what exactly it is that they produce. For instance, two districts could each have an income rating of "1" (whatever that might mean...it's arbitrary to begin with), but that could represent cattle production in one area and a small gold mine in the other. Along with this, an upkeep/capita could be established, so some of the income would always go toward food, housing, etc. Thoughts? Personally, I'd like to keep as much of the old system intact as possible, but that's probably just because I helped work on it originally. The point of specifying different resources is that people can actually build stuff immediately with the resources. You can use the natural resources to eliminate the costs of resources that's always included in items. For example, it's a lot cheaper to make an adamantine sword when you have a supply of adamantine (in fact, if you have enough adamantine, you can make one yourself with no cost). I think, in some regard, we need to take into account that absolutely everyone doesn't have to know these rules inside and out. The guildmasters are the ones playing the resource and district game. My aim would be to keep the old system as a model, eliminate what seems to just be unnecessary, and simplify what is too difficult. I'd still like to see the spirit of the old system make it through, though. Perhaps we should get KB to help us out on this one, since he was the original creator. EDIT: Jagggar, could you clear some PM space?
jagggar 11-23-05, 12:20 AM	And if the guildmasters can't/doesn't want to handle it but another member of the guild would like to step up, they should feel free to do so. As far as I'm concerned, a straight gold amount, even when based on District Level (or "income rating" as you called it) is our eventual fall-back plan if this doesn't work out. By presetting the resources, we hope to create actual supply and demand which will give guilds another cause for war if they can't negotiate for the resources they need.
Dyne 11-23-05, 12:22 AM	By presetting the resources, we hope to create actual supply and demand which will give guilds another cause for war if they can't negotiate for the resources they need. It'll also give them another reason to cooperate with one another, to trade for the resources they need.
Demonfey 11-23-05, 12:28 AM	And if the guildmasters can't/doesn't want to handle it but another member of the guild would like to step up, they should feel free to do so. As far as I'm concerned, a straight gold amount, even when based on District Level (or "income rating" as you called it) is our eventual fall-back plan if this doesn't work out. By presetting the resources, we hope to create actual supply and demand which will give guilds another cause for war if they can't negotiate for the resources they need. And bargaining chips.
Wilds 11-23-05, 12:57 PM	War will be so much easier to finance and cause with resources
Dyne 11-23-05, 10:30 PM	EDITED
jagggar 11-24-05, 03:01 AM	Price Collected per Each Turn Resource Pound per DL Adamantine 1000 gp 35 lbs Darkwood 20 gp 1500 lbs Food 1 cp 2000 lbs Gold 50 gp 400 lbs Iron 1 sp 1000 lbs Mithral 500 gp 70 lbs Stone 1 cp 20000 lbs Wood 1 sp 5000 lbs For reference. Adamantine, Leather, Stone, and Wood we've kinda pulled out of our donkeys. Darkwood is calculated from it's entry as well as Food. Gold, Iron, and Mithral are straight from the books. Hmm, you mentioned something about looking for prices earlier. Do you think you might be able to find a weight/area for stone? Wood too, but that might be a bit annoyng (Hardwood? Softwood? Hard softwood? Soft hardwood?) My wood. Wood. . . Something simple like oak maybe.
gabrion 11-24-05, 11:11 AM	Well since you all seem set on it, I won't interfere much more, but let me offer my objections once more before silencing myself. I still think a generic income/resource system would serve us much better (by which I mean it might actually work). I know that you all want different resources and what not in order to simulate a real market economy, but I don't think people realize how complex such an undertaking must be. Setting up an artificial economy that actually allows market forces to work properly (which is what you seem to be trying to do), is difficult enought that some of the most brillian minds in the real world have not been able to do it. Like I said though, if you guys are confident that you can pull it off, then I'll just sit back and watch the show. Good luck.
jagggar 11-24-05, 11:44 PM	Price Collected per Each Turn Value Sale Resource Pound per DL in GP Value Adamantine 1000 gp 35 lbs 35,000 17,500 Darkwood 20 gp 1500 lbs 30,000 15,000 Food 1 cp 2000 lbs 20 10 Gold 50 gp 400 lbs 20,000 20,000 Iron 1 sp 1000 lbs 100 50 Mithral 500 gp 70 lbs 35,000 17,500 Stone 1 cp 20000 lbs 200 100 Wood 1 sp 5000 lbs 500 250 Yet again: Reference! Since my email refuses to make nice pretty charts.
Tenzhi 11-24-05, 11:46 PM	I still think a generic income/resource system would serve us much better (by which I mean it might actually work). I agree with gabrion. Think about that for a minute.
gabrion 11-25-05, 02:39 AM	I agree with gabrion. Think about that for a minute. And for some reason I'm craving elf Cordon Blue all of a sudden... :thinks:
jagggar 12-17-05, 05:49 PM	Few notes: This is incomplete at this time. (gotta head off to a party soon, and want to make sure this is safe incase my computer chooses to go haywire) Rules Team 2, yes, there probably are some changes from what we may have thought we decided. Districts and Resources Our districts and resources system introduces a few new concepts: Districts - Cities divided up into districts. Each district has room for a Guild Outpost. District Level (DL) - District Level represents population and productivity of both Districts and Territories. District Levels range from 0-5. District Level can be raised by feeding the people food or lowered by slaughtering a district's people (see below for details). For most calculations, DL 0 is treated as 1/2. Guild Outpost - A guild outpost represents the guild's infuence in that district or territory. It may act as a military force, religous center, or perhaps control that district's markets. The guild which owns a guild outpost adds that district's DL to it's Guild Leadership Score. Resources - Resources are food, iron, stone, wood, gold, and special materials such as adamantine, darkwood, and mithral. These are collected from territories every turn. Resource Center - A resource center represents the farms, mines, or saw mills a territory might have. Owning a resource center provides your guild with the resources that territory produces each turn. Tech Level (TL) - Tech Level represents the wide spread use of more effecient ways of collecting resources. A territory with a higher tech level will produce more of it's resource every turn. All territories start with a Tech Level of 0. Territory - A territory has enough room for a Guild Outpost and a Resource Center. Acquiring Guild Outposts and Resource Centers Purchasing A guild may purchase the rights to a Guild Outpost by paying 100,000 gp per DL. DL Cost 0 50,000 1 100,000 2 200,000 3 300,000 4 400,000 5 500,000 A guild may purchase the rights to a Resuorce Center by paying 100,000 gp per TL. TL Cost 0 50,000 1 100,000 2 200,000 3 300,000 4 400,000 5 500,000 When a Guild Outpost is first purchased it comes with a "Cheap Keep" or amount, amount, amount should the new owners of a district have immediate plans for their Guild Outpost construction. If another guild has previously owned the Guild Outpost then you recieve the stronghold they used as their Guild Outpost. Military Conquest A guild may take control of another guild's Guild Outpost by attacking and either defeating or driving off it's owners. Districts or territories without owned Guild Outposts may not be aquired through this method. When a guild is defeated or driven off from a territory, it is up to the Guild Outpost's new owners if the current owners of the Resource Center may stay. If they are also driven off, the new guild must still pay to aquire the Resource Center. If a guild refuses to defend itself or respond to an attack within a (real world) week, the attacking guild may choose to decrease the district or territory's level by one perminately (may be repeated once every other week) or to seize half the gold (and resources) until the attack is answered. GMs may declare that defenders who refuse to defend for an extended period of time automatically lose the rights to the Guild Outpost. Changing District Level and Tech Level District Level District Level is improved by feeding the district 1,000 gp worth of food per DL. It takes one turn to improve DL in this way. (Hoarding food to improve a district from DL 0 to DL 5 will not work.) DL Food (in gp) 0->1 500 1->2 1,000 2->3 2,000 3->4 3,000 4->5 4,000 5->S 5,000 Tech Level Tech Level must be improved one step at a time. Tech Level cannot be improved beyond the current District Level. Tech Level is improved by paying the amount shown on the following chart. TL Cost 0->1 50,000 gp 1->2 100,000 gp 2->3 200,000 gp 3->4 300,000 gp 4->5 400,000 gp Collections Districts collect 5,000 gp per DL each turn. Territories collect 2,500 gp per DL each turn. In addition, territories collected resources. The amount of resources collected is measured in gp. The following chart shows how much of a resource is collected per DL or TL, whichever is lower. The sale value is if you decide to sell the resource to NPCs instead of dealing with PCs Collected Value Sale Resource in GP Value Adamantine 30,000 15,000 Darkwood 30,000 15,000 Food 200 100 Gold 20,000 20,000 Iron 100 50 Mithral 30,000 15,000 Stone 200 100 Wood 500 250
Dyne 12-17-05, 08:41 PM	<<EDITED>>
jagggar 12-18-05, 12:20 PM	Okay, someone check how it's doing? Orcy, Dyne, did we miss anything? I'd like to have this done before Necro gets the map done, just so I can poke him and stick my tongue out at him.