Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dyne 02-25-07, 08:54 PM	In the midst of the Great Forest, settled in between its guarding branches lies a small settlement. The last of the race of Elves makes this blessed spot its home, where their advancements of civilization and magic blend with the simple truths of nature. Elves of all kind can be found here, from all walks of life, coexisting peacefully in the only known cooperation of all Elf subraces. Good and Evil are left at the door, and the only laws binding this place are that of fellowship and the advancement of the Elf race. Members Dyne (Founder) Demonfey Aramar the Black Turalisj Premier666 CaptainShar Honorable Mention Tenzhi: The Elf-Bane
Dyne 02-25-07, 08:58 PM	Elves (http://www.jaestudio.com/Elves.jpg) (Artwork) Elven Lords (http://www.jaestudio.com/ElvenLords.jpg) (Artwork) Forest Elf (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11589822&postcount=4) (Elf subrace) Forest Elf Paragon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7856932&postcount=53) (Paragon class) Myth Drannor (http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-Cormanthyr/home%20page.htm) (Website)
Dyne 02-25-07, 09:12 PM	Material Book Page Type Aquatic Half-Elf UA 7 Variant Race Arctic Elf UA 9 Variant Race Arctic Half-Elf UA 10 Variant Race Bladesinger CW 17 Prestige Class Bow of the Winter Moon CD 93 Relic Champion of Corellon RotW 113 Prestige Class Darkwood Stalker CW 23 Prestige Class Desert Elf UA 11 Variant Race Desert Half-Elf UA 12 Variant Race Drow Paragon UA 32 Racial Paragon Class Elf Dilettante RotW 150 Feat Elf Paladin RotW 155 Racial Substitution Levels Elf Paragon UA 35 Racial Paragon Class Elf Ranger RotW 155 Racial Substitution Levels Elf Wizard RotW 157 Racial Substitution Levels Elven Courtblade RotW 166 Weapon Elvencraft Bow RotW 166 Weapon Modification Elven Hound RotW 189 Creature Elven Lightblade CW 157 Weapon Elven Thinblade CW 158 Weapon Fire Elf UA 17 Variant Race Fire Half-Elf UA 18 Variant Race Focused Mind RotW 151 Feat Half-Elf Paragon UA 39 Racial Paragon Class Jungle Elf UA 14 Variant Race Jungle Half-Elf UA 14 Variant Race Lightfeet RotW 151 Feat Master of the Yuirwood UE 24 Prestige Class Millennial Chainmail CD 98 Relic Ruathar RotW 122 Prestige Class Seeker of the Misty Isle CD 61 Prestige Class Star Elf UE 9 Sub-race Wild Runner RotW 139 Prestige Class Key CD = Complete Divine CW = Complete Warrior RotW = Races of the Wild UA = Unearthed Arcana UE = Unapproachable East
Dyne 02-25-07, 09:28 PM	Removed.
Dyne 02-25-07, 09:32 PM	More new Elf material to come. Also, the guild is now open for posting.
Tenzhi 02-28-07, 01:10 AM	The third iteration, eh? The failure of the other two is proof positive that elves just aren't viable as a race. We should just scrap this one now and put it out of its prolonged misery. ;) (Hey, what's an Elf foundation without an appropriate inaugaral post by the Elf-Bane. :dragon: )
Demonfey 02-28-07, 01:11 AM	Run! The Elf Bane is manifest!
Dyne 02-28-07, 04:25 PM	The third iteration, eh? The failure of the other two is proof positive that elves just aren't viable as a race. We should just scrap this one now and put it out of its prolonged misery. ;) (Hey, what's an Elf foundation without an appropriate inaugaral post by the Elf-Bane. :dragon: ) Hey, the second one was making a comeback. Blame the WizOs' "archiving initiative" for its death. Anyway, some Elf-specific things that I was thinking of making: Elf Lord - Compare to the Orc Warlord. Basically, a leadership PrC for Elves, with a few Elf-specific abilities (as well as an increased number of Elf followers). Elf Sentinel - I was thinking something along the lines of an Elf version of the Dwarven Defender. Basically, a PrC that roams the forest, killing monsters and such in the defense of his Elven community. It will probably be a bit more mobile and Dexterity-oriented, as opposed to the Dwarven Defender (which is rather stationary and focuses on Strength and Constitution). Elf Songweaver - A PrC that uses music to enhance the character's spellcasting abilities. Similar to the Bladesinger, but less martial and focused more on spellcasting. Perhaps it will give a few Bard-like abilities to Wizards and Sorcerers. Mask of Elvenkind - Magic item that lets the user interact better with Elves. Also enhances the wearers senses, giving low-light vision and an intuitive ability to notice secret doors, like an Elf. Compare to Belt of Dwarvenkind. I was also wanting to make a feat that reflects how Elves learn all kinds of different skills in order to be self-sufficient. Perhaps something like Able Learner from Races of Destiny.
Aramar the Black 02-28-07, 07:53 PM	Elven Songweaver: I saw a redone Elven Bladedance PrC,adn it was pretty spiffy, I think. If I can find it I'll bring it forth. Mask of Elvenkind: As it happens, in my campaign, elves are very bid into masks. Obtaining one is like an initiation into adulthood. I'm letting inspiration do its things for the Elf Lord; I get back to you on that one.
Dyne 03-02-07, 12:01 AM	The thing about the Songweaver is that I want a PrC that is viable to Wizards and Sorcerers without requiring them to take levels in Bard. I suppose it would be similar to the Bard in concept (using music to enhance their magical abilities), and perhaps members of this PrC would benefit if they had levels in Bard. But I don't want a "Bard PrC", if that makes any sense. There are many PrC's that are similar to this in concept, but are vastly different in mechanics than what I'm looking for. One of my ideas is a sort of Arcane Music ability; similar to Bardic Music, but instead of boosting up allies, inspiring courage and such, it would boost up the Songweaver's spellcasting abilities, let him apply metamagic feats to his spells, stuff like that.
Tenzhi 03-02-07, 12:40 AM	Interesting. Maybe give them an extra slot at each spell level that they can use to prepare a Spellsong. Spellsongs wouldn't necessarily be cast and forgotten like a typical wizard spell, but rather would be an ongoing action that augmented spells while they were doing it. If interrupted or stopped, that ability couldn't be used again for a certain amount of time (not necessarily a whole day).
Aramar the Black 03-07-07, 06:07 PM	Here is the the basic layout and flavor text of that Elven Spellblade PrC that I found a while ago. I did nothing other than summerize the text, and fix the grammer. Of all elves encountered wandering the world there are few as well known or as respected as the Bladedancer or Arcane Archer, shining examples of the majesty and magic that so typify elves. Standing along sides these warriors are the equally spectacular Spellblades. They are not as well-known outside the elven homeland as their brethren, especially as the Spellblade style is easily mistaken for another type of Bladedancer. The order of Spellblades is a closely guarded secret among Elven communities. They are seen as living embodiments of a seemingly perfect balance of magic, movement and might of arms. The Spellblade seamlessly meld arcane mastery with weapon prowess, all wrapped up in a graceful elven dancing form. Imbuing their weapon with magic through their graceful and simple movement patterns and complicated and deadly magical style, Spellblades are renowned for their supernatural ability to harm even the seemingly intangible with their blades. Hit Dice: d8 Requirements: Base attack Bonus: +5 Skills: Balance 3 ranks, Perform (dance) 3 ranks, Tumble 3 ranks, Spellcraft 5 Ranks Feats: Combat Expertise, Eschew Materials, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Finesse, and Weapon Focus Races: Almost all Spellblades are surface elves, if there are half elves or none elves with this style they do not advertise it. Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd Level arcane spells. Class Skills The Elven Spellblade skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Spellcraft (Int), and Tumble (Dex). See Chapter 4: Skills in the Core Rulebook I for skill descriptions. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. Level BAB Fort/ Ref/ Will Special 1 +1 +0 +2 +0 Spellblade Style, Attunement, Blade Enhancement 2 +2 +0 +3 +0 Bladeweaving, Wavedance 3 +3 +1 +3 +1 Spellblade Attunement, 4 +4 +1 +4 +1 Firedance 5 +5 +1 +4 +1 Spellblade Style 6 +6 +2 +5 +2 Winddance 7 +7 +2 +5 +2 Spellblade Attunement, 8 +8 +2 +6 +2 Bonedance 9 +9 +3 +6 +3 Spellblade Attunement, 10 +10 +3 +7 +3 Spellblade Style, Irondance Class Features Weapons and Armor: Spellblades gain proficient with no additional armor or weapons. The use of armor heavier than medium precludes Bladedancing and all Blade Enhancements as does the use of any shield. Though they disdain the use of blunt or missile weapons, they may use them when needed, though they gain no benefit from any class features when they do. Note that wearing armor heavier than leather imposes a penalty to Climb, Hide, Jump, Move Silently and Swim skill checks. Swim checks suffer double the normal armor check and encumbrance penalties. Spellblade Style (Ex): The primary weapon of the Spellblade is a conduit through which the character can channel a number of magical effects. Their blade must be a single handed slashing or piercing blade suitable for use with the feat weapon finesse. At 1st level they choose the specific style they will adhere too for the rest of their career, either the Twin Sword Style or the Single Sword Style. Twin Sword Style: If they choose their style they must fight with two identical weapons, in which they have Weapon Focus. They gain one additional attack with their off hand weapon. Their attack is at their maximum BAB –2. Unlike two weapon fighting it does not effect the other attacks made by the Spellblade. Note: This (supersedes) does not stack with any benefit the character has from any two weapon fighting feats. Single Sword Style: If they choose their style when wielding the one-handed slashing weapon they have weapon focus in and with the other hand free, they gain a +1 competence bonus to either attack rolls or armor class. They apply the bonus before their action during any one round and it lasts until changed during a later round. In addition they may choose to add their Dex bonus to the damage their weapon does instead of strength. Note: If they choose to add their Dex bonus to the damage they gain no benefit if using two hands on the weapon, all benefits are due to them having one hand free to balance with. Once their choice is made it is not possible to rescind, and all class abilities rely on the character following their style. Using other weapons than those attuned to them and using weapons style that is At 5th Level their style of fighting grants them a further benefit. Followers of the Twin Sword Style gain an additional attack at their maximum BAB –4. Followers of the Single Sword Style may choose to add 1½ their Dexterity bonus to their damage roll instead of strength. At 10th Level they reach their maximum benefit for their fighting style. Twin Sword Style Spellblades reduce the penalty to their first and second extra attacks by 1 point to –1 and –3 respectively. Single Sword Style Spellblades receive and additional competence bonus of +1 when fighting with their attuned weapon and having their off hand free. Spellblade Attunement (Su): The Spellblades weapon becomes more and more attuned to them as time passes. It takes on an almost magical ability to bypass damage reduction when in their hands. They may have up to two weapons attuned at any one time, and can only channel their magic through these weapons and no others. In anyone else’s hands their weapon simply functions as a masterwork weapon and nothing else. If the weapon is magical in it’s own right these enhancements stack with those found on the weapon already. They may place it down, leave it in another room and the like, at any time and it does not loose its attunement. As long as they still own the weapon and it has not been stolen or confiscated they can not breach the two attuned weapons at one time. If it is stolen they may seek out the person responsible to get their weapon back or they may abandon the weapon and attune another. To attune a new weapon if they have lost their primary one takes the Spellblade an hour, wherein they concentrate on the weapon practicing with it and going through their forms and patterns. Magical: At 1st Level the Spellblades weapon is considered to be magical for overcoming damage reduction. Lawful/Chaotic: By 3rd level the blade is so attuned to it’s wielder that it picks up their alignment, taking on the properties of an Anarchic, or Axiomatic weapon. Neutral character must decide at their point what alignment they favour and the weapon will take on the relevant function. Their choice can be changed later on by simply re-attuning it, though it can only be re-attuned once per day. Good/Evil: At 7th level the personal beliefs of the Spellblade infuse the blade having it take on the Holy or Unholy properties dependant on the wielders alignment. As with the Law and Chaos alignment at 3rd level a neutral person must pick one of these abilities, though they may re-attune it if they so wish at a later date. Adamantine: At 10th level the weapon is so attuned to the Spellblade that it gains all the properties of Adamantine for the purpose of saving throws hardness and bypassing damage reduction. Spellblade Enhancement: In addition the Spellblade knows a number of arcane enhancements they may imbue their blade with, simulating the effect of various magical enchantments. They are limited in that they may only have one enchantment at a time and enchanting an already enchanted weapon in this way supersedes that weapons magical bonuses for the duration of the effect. It is only possible to use a Spellblade enhancement with a weapon to which they are attuned. Spellblades start the game knowing one enhancement from the following list, which they may use to enhance their weapon once per day for every two Spellblade levels. They learn a further enhancement at 2nd and every two levels thereafter. Each enhancement lasts a maximum number of rounds equal to their Spellblade level (+Int Mod). Calling or banishing the enhancement is a free action provoking attacks of opportunity from those threatening the Spellblades position. Banishing the enchantment before it is due to elapse means any additional rounds are lost. Striking a Spellblade while they are summoning each enhancement requires them to make a Performance (dance) check (DC=10 + Damage Suffered) or loose the enhancement before it begins. It is not possible to summon the effect on the defensive like spellcasters. Acidblade: The Spellblade may sheath their blade of their weapon in an acidic field; dealing an additional 1d6 point of acid damage to any target it strikes. The blade glows faintly yellow with this enchantment. Bitingblade: The Spellblade may add a +1 bonus to damage with their weapon for every three Spellblade levels as their blade edge seems to bite into their target. The blade seems to be glows faintly purple with this enchantment. Flameblade: The Spellblade may sheath their weapon in an aura of fire, dealing an additional 1d6 point of fire damage to any target it strikes. The blade glows faintly red with this enchantment. Frostblade: The Spellblade may cover the blade of their weapon in blistering cold; dealing an additional 1d6 point of cold damage to any target it strikes. The blade glows faintly white with this enchantment. Ghostblade: The Spellblade may strike at creatures currently incorporeal as if they were both on the same plane. This acts like a Ghost touch weapon. The blade seems to be slightly blurred with this enchantment. Keenblade: The Spellblade may increase the threat range for their weapon by 1 point. A longsword would have a threat range of 18-20 instead of the normal 19-20. This does not stack with the spell keen or improved critical feat. The blade seems to be slightly more in focus and sharply defined with this enchantment. Shockblade: The Spellblade may sheath their blade in crackling electricity, dealing an additional 1d6 point of electrical damage to any target it strikes. The blade glows faintly blue with this enchantment. As they increase in levels they learn more enhancements but are still limited to using them once per day for every two Spellblade levels. It is possible to use a Spellblade Enhancement more than once in any one day. Blades Weaving (Su): Their attunement to their weapon and their movement is such that when wielding their attuned weapons they may cast any arcane spell of 2nd Level or lower with no chance of spell failure. Either due to armour or because they have no hand free to cast the spell. The somatic and components become the movement of the blades and the dance of the body. Material components that have a specific cost must still be paid for, and all material components must be in the possession of the Bladedancer at the time of their casting the spell. Bladedances (Ex): Like many elves the Spellblade learns to move through combat maximising their inherent grace, interweaving movement and their weapons pattern in a blurred and lethal Dance of Blades. At 2nd level the Spellblade begins to use the special Bladedance that typify such elven fighting styles. Unlike the Blade enhancements noted above they must be learned in sequence. They may use their Bladedance abilities once per day for every two levels after first. Each Bladedance lasts a maximum number of rounds equal to their Spellblade level (+Int Mod). Calling or banishing them is a movement action provoking attacks of opportunity from those threatening the Spellblades position. Banishing the Bladedance before it is due to elapse, means any additional rounds are lost. Striking a Spellblade while they are summoning each enhancement requires them to make a Concentration check (DC=5 + Damage Suffered) or loose the enhancement before it begins. Striking a Spellblade while they are summoning a Bladedance requires them to make a Performance (dance) (DC=10 + Damage Suffered) or loose the enhancement before it begins. It is not possible to summon the effect on the defensive like spellcasters. Wave Dance: At 2nd level, the Spellblade learns the first of their dances. The wave dance is the art of flowing with the movement of others. While the wave dance is in effect, the Spellblade may add their Intelligence modifier to their AC or to their attack roll. However, they must choose one or other aspect of the sea, soothing or crashing, when they initiate the dance and cannot change this choice for the duration of that dance. Fire Dance: At 4th level, the Spellblade can channel the destructive power of fire through their body. While in their dance, they gain a +2 bonus to Strength and Constitution, receiving four additional hit points. During this dance their AC is reduced by 1 point, as is their reflex saves; due to their ferocity and fearlessness. Once complete, they are fatigued for an equal number of rounds that they spent dancing Wind Dance: At 6th level, the Spellblade learns the steps of the wind dance, a graceful art of defence and sanctuary. While engaged in their dance, the Spellblade gain an additional bonus to their AC equal to the number of attacks they may make in one round. This stacks with the bonus granted by the Combat Expertise feat. Bone Dance: At 8th level, the Spellblade perfects the bone dance. When their dance is employed, the Spellblade must spend a full round working their body up into a frenzy of dance and passion. Afterwards, they gain an additional attack per round Iron Dance: At 10th level, the Spellblade learns the forms of the iron dance, the most deadly in their arsenal. After the first round of fighting defensively, the Spellblade gain an additional bonus to AC equal to their attack bonus (from Base Attack Bonus and any other modifiers due to ability, magic, feat, or situation) for as long as they continue to dance. They are unable to attack during this dance, as the dance is a purely defensive maneuver. Anyone entering or exiting their threatened area is subject to Attacks of Opportunities as normal. Anti-magic and Spellblades All of the attunement effects fail in an anti-magic zone, requiring that they re-attune their weapon before gaining any of their magical Bladedancing or Blade Enhancement abilities.
Dyne 03-19-07, 05:18 PM	Here's what I've got so far for the Songweaver. I wanted to give them additional arcane music abilities, but all I could think of so far was Metasong. But anyway, this should give you an idea of what direction I wanted to take it. The class would be best for Sorcerers and Wizards, but Bards would benefit from having additional uses of bardic music that they could use to power their arcane music abilities. Elven Songweaver Hit Die: d4 Requirements: Race: Elf or Half-Elf Skills Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Perform 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks Feats: Any two metamagic feats Spellcasting: Ability to cast 3rd-level arcane spells. Class Skills Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge, Perform, Profession, and Spellcraft. Skill Points: 2 + Int mod. BAB Progression: 1/2 Fort save: Poor Ref save: Poor Will save: Good Weapons and Armor: None. Spells per Day/Spells Known: Each level, increases spellcasting of existing arcane spellcasting class. Arcane Music: Functions like bardic music. Number of uses each day equal to class level. Metasong I: At 1st-level, Elven Songweavers gain the ability to use their music and poetics to apply metamagic effects to their spells. This ability only functions for metamagic feats that the character knows, and only feats that increase a spell slot by one level. Activating this ability requires a Perform check (DC 13 + spell level). On a success, the spell receives the benefit of the feat without increasing casting time or requiring a higher level slot. On a failure, the spell does not receive the benefit but the uses of arcane music are NOT wasted. Activating this ability requires one use of arcane music, and it can only be used by characters with at least 9 ranks in a Perform skill. Metasong II: Elven Songweavers gain this ability at 4th-level. It functions similar to Metasong I, except it applies to feats that increase a spell slot by two levels. Activating this ability requires a Perform check (DC 16 + spell level). Activating this ability requires two uses of arcane music, and it can only be used by characters with at least 12 ranks in a Perform skill. Metasong III: Elven Songweavers gain this ability at 7th-level. It functions similar to Metasong I, except it applies to feats that increase a spell slot by three levels. Activating this ability requires a Perform check (DC 19 + spell level). Activating this ability requires three uses of arcane music, and it can only be used by characters with at least 15 ranks in a Perform skill. Metasong IV: Elven Songweavers gain this ability at 10th-level. It functions similar to Metasong I, except it applies to feats that increase a spell slot by four levels. Activating this ability requires a Perform check (DC 22 + spell level). Activating this ability requires four uses of arcane music, and it can only be used by characters with at least 18 ranks in a Perform skill. Bonus Metamagic Feat: At 3rd, 6th, and 9th-levels, Elven Songweavers gain a bonus feat. This feat can be chosen from any metamagic feat.
Dyne 03-21-07, 05:02 PM	Removed.
Lady Rolindin 03-21-07, 08:58 PM	Other elfs from the books Painted Elf S S p.p. 43 as wild elf +2 dex, -2 int Snow Elf F B p.p. 34 +2dex, -2 cha Aquatic Elf R o F p.p. 28 Avariel R o F p.p. 31 Drow Rof p.p. 34 Moon Elf Rof p.p. 38 Sun Elf Rof p.p. 40 Wil Elf Rof p.p. 43 Wood Elf Rof p.p. 45 Fey'ri Rof p.p. 118 S S= Sandstorm F B = Frostburn R o F= Races of Faerun
premier666 03-30-07, 09:45 AM	I have a feeling that spellblade is unbalanced. I'm not sure exactly what though. about those races, it's not very recomended to add bonuses to the spellcasting abilities, i't can lead to serius munchkinism. Of course, that's why they say: "anything you can do, there's an elven subrace that does it better then you." Heh, I'll be adding my elven subraces here in a near future.
Dyne 04-01-07, 12:35 AM	I have a feeling that spellblade is unbalanced. I'm not sure exactly what though. about those races, it's not very recomended to add bonuses to the spellcasting abilities, i't can lead to serius munchkinism. Of course, that's why they say: "anything you can do, there's an elven subrace that does it better then you." Heh, I'll be adding my elven subraces here in a near future. Which is why I gave them certain weaknesses to counterbalance. Forest Elves have a Cha penalty (undesirable for Cleric's turning dead, and other abilities divine spellcasters often have), and Fire Elves are more vulnerable to spell effects (they get a penalty on saving throws).
premier666 04-01-07, 09:55 PM	Clerics hardly need high Cha, unless you think there's gonna be a lot of undeads in the campaign. Or if you plan to use all those nifty divine feats. On the fire elves, I didn't see the fire elves penalty on saving throws when I first looked. Yeah, those should balance it up.
Dyne 04-02-07, 12:47 AM	Well, I happen to own Libris Mortis. And Heroes of Horror. Undead are rather prevalent in my games. Also, you forget their penalty to Con. Not very desirable for a spellcaster. And their bonus to Dex goes to waste on a character in heavy armor. While these Elves should be good at casting spells, they should NOT be the best clerics/druids/sorcerers/etc. They just excel in a certain area of those classes, whereas other races excel in different abilities.
Dyne 05-01-07, 01:03 AM	I've been trying to think of other possible Arcane Music abilities I could give the Elven Songweaver other than just the Metasong stuff. Possible ideas include: -Boost to Dexterity, AC, speed, Reflex -Bonus to overcome spell resistance -Cast illusion spells by expending uses of Arcane Music -Something with a charm/persuasion effect I want some effects that are Elf-like and that haven't already been done in another class. Also mostly stuff that alters spells, or is at least useful to a Wizard/Sorcerer character.
Aramar the Black 05-02-07, 04:15 PM	Performing two effects (metasong, normal song, bardic song) at the same time. Weave multiple spells into one. "All were sitting calmly around the edges of the glade, and further in as well. They were quiet, almost as if they were all in reverie, yet their eyes were open and attentive. As I watched, a single elf, middle-aged, I'd hazard, stepped forth at the designated front of the glade. He stood still for a moment, breathing deeply and noiselessly, casting his gaze over the audience. And the he picked up his harp, and began to play. It was only a couple notes a first, a small plucking tune, but as it grew and flowed and smoothed, I could see a aura of something building up around the harp. It grew as well, and become an illusionary picture, setting a stage right there in front of us. Trees, birds, waving grasses were all in this panaorama. And then the bard began to sing. A lone melody at first, comprised of words I couldn't understand, though they didn't sound like magic. None the less, I saw ghostly figures appearing in that glassy panorama. A beautiful piece of thaumaturgy. Then, the stage set, the bard did something unexpected. He sang two tones at the same time, a low, baritone pulse, and a lilting soprano melody above it. I heard the words of a song, singing a poetic tale of the ages past, as the music of the harp, and the undertones played behind it, and the figures in the illusion acted out what was sung. A one-man show, completely entrancing. In a fitting conclusion, when the song was wild, the bard split his voice once more, into three parts. The once stage-like panorama grew to envelope the audiece, illusions of trees seeming to burst and grow from the ground, as the glamour figures danced into the stars. Then a shower of starlight, and it was over.
Dyne 05-02-07, 04:19 PM	Performing two effects (metasong, normal song, bardic song) at the same time. Weave multiple spells into one. I believe the Seeker of the Song already has such an ability.
Aramar the Black 05-02-07, 05:13 PM	Shucks. With so many variations on the bard, the bardic prestige classes, and elven prestige classes, I don't know what to do.
Dyne 05-07-07, 06:44 PM	I could do something like this: LV Special Ability 1 - Metasong I 2 - Inspire Celerity I (Works like Inspire Courage, except +2 Dex and +5 ft. speed) 3 - Bonus Metamagic Feat 4 - Metasong II 5 - Song of Illusion (Use bardic/arcane music uses to cast illusion spells) 6 - Bonus Metamagic Feat 7 - Metasong III 8 - Inspire Celerity II (+4 Dex and +10 ft. speed) 9 - Bonus Metamagic Feat 10 - Metasong IV
Aramar the Black 05-07-07, 08:43 PM	You could. It still doesn't feel right, at least to me. And I've got this bad feeling that I won't be able to come up with anything, and I'll only ever complain. So don't put to much wieght on my words. If you like it, adn others like it, go ahead. I like the metasongs, but the Inspire Celerity feels almost limited and cliche.
Dyne 05-07-07, 09:55 PM	You could. It still doesn't feel right, at least to me. And I've got this bad feeling that I won't be able to come up with anything, and I'll only ever complain. So don't put to much wieght on my words. If you like it, adn others like it, go ahead. I like the metasongs, but the Inspire Celerity feels almost limited and cliche. I know what you mean, but I can't think of anything else that would be unique. We need more ideas. Where the heck are all those Elf-lovers that people complain about? Seems like there's no love for this noble race anymore. :(
CaptainShar 05-07-07, 10:50 PM	You could emphasize 'Ancient Lore' instead of Dexterity bonuses...maybe it would give bonuses to all the charisma-based checks? Then it would be at least somewhat useful in combat, too, if people wanted to Intimidate or Feint. I like elves, I'm just not playing one right now, so I haven't joined.
Dyne 05-07-07, 11:58 PM	You could emphasize 'Ancient Lore' instead of Dexterity bonuses...maybe it would give bonuses to all the charisma-based checks? Then it would be at least somewhat useful in combat, too, if people wanted to Intimidate or Feint. I like elves, I'm just not playing one right now, so I haven't joined. You don't need to be playing an Elf to join. This is pretty much an OoG guild anyway.
CaptainShar 05-08-07, 12:01 AM	Well, then, I'll join. Show 'em all that elves don't have to be pansies...
Dyne 05-09-07, 11:56 PM	Okay, we need to come up with some Arcane Music ideas that are more than just filler. The original premise was bard-like abilities that modify spells, but that could be expanded to any musical effects that are Elf-like in some way. I was originally gonna make a separate PrC that would focus on Elven magic (without music), but those two ideas could be merged. I'd prefer abilities that are more original, but we could borrow a few here and there from existing PrC's if need be. As far as Elf-like qualities, I wrote down some notes on Elves while I was reading Races of the Wild. Here's what I put: Grace/Agility Swordsmanship Archery Magic Music Frailty Independent/Self-sufficient Artistic Long-lived Variety of skills/Little specialization Knowledgeable/Experienced/Aged Peaceful/Non-risky/Self-preserving Patient The more martial abilities (archer, swordfighting, etc.) would best be left for another PrC. For abilities that emulate their other qualities, here's what I've been thinking: Elves live for a long time, and gain knowledge on all sorts of random things. An Elven Songweaver is also like the sage of an Elven community, so I was thinking on giving them a Lore ability, like the Loremaster (it's basically a copy of Bardic Knowledge). Because an Elf lives for such a long time, they are much more careful of death than Humans are. I was thinking on giving them some defensive abilities, such as an ability to avoid AoO's when casting spells. Maybe also some musical ability that lets characters automatically stabilize when they are dying. I kindof like the idea of Inspire Celerity, it goes nicely with their natural grace. And Dexterity is mostly a defensive ability, so it also goes with their self-preserving nature. I'm not sure exactly how to implement it, but the current idea is an Inspire Courage-like ability that grants bonuses to Dexterity and speed. Elves are very patient, so I was thinking of some sort of Delay ability for spells. Maybe have a musical ability that lets them charge up the power of their spells by singing for a round or so before casting, or somesuch. Perhaps +1 caster level for each round delayed, maximum bonus cannot exceed class levels in Elven Songweaver.
Dyne 05-12-07, 05:02 AM	Removed.
Aramar the Black 05-12-07, 06:47 PM	I like it. Sorry I've got nothing constructive.
Dyne 05-14-07, 04:38 PM	Decided to give an extra bonus feat so that it has more than a regular Wizard (and to offset the lack of spellcasting increase at level 6). Elven Songweavers are supposed to be better with metamagic, makes sense that they get more feats. Does anyone else have any comments on this PrC? Also, I posted it in the Prestige Class forums here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=846020).
Dyne 05-20-07, 07:59 PM	Removed.
Orcy The Green Wonder 05-20-07, 11:40 PM	Orcy believes the first ability should be as follows: Dead: An elf paragon (of any type) dies upon becoming a paragon. This, as all know, is because the only good elf is a dead elf. But, since you didn't go that way (you should have) Orcy will simply comment on what you DID do. It looks to be alright from first glance. However, there should only be two levels of caster progression as all the other paragons Orcy has found have only two levels at most in caster progressions.
Dyne 05-21-07, 02:29 AM	But, since you didn't go that way (you should have) Orcy will simply comment on what you DID do. It looks to be alright from first glance. However, there should only be two levels of caster progression as all the other paragons Orcy has found have only two levels at most in caster progressions. IMHO, all the other paragon caster progressions suck. That, and druids usually gain a lot more than spells, as opposed to the other caster progressions; since the Forest Elf Paragon doesn't gain wild shape or an animal companion or any of that other good stuff, I decided to go with full caster progression.
Orcy The Green Wonder 05-21-07, 02:59 AM	Orcy doesn't see a negative for a druid to NOT take this class. Full caster progression, a bonus to their spellcasting stat, two good saves, one of which is not their usual. As well as a few abilities that can help out. They only really lose out on a few levels of wild shape and whatnot, which isn't the end of the world for that +2 to save DCs and all your regular spellcaster progression. Orcy still stands by full caster progression being too much for a paragon. All the other paragons (even human) have at most 2 levels of spellcaster progression. It even gains some skills it wouldn't otherwise have access to. Not bad for any druid thats looking for a bit more of a stealthy approach while keeping their full spellcasting.
Dyne 05-21-07, 03:10 AM	Orcy doesn't see a negative for a druid to NOT take this class. The druid base class gains something new almost every level. This is not true for any other spellcasting class. Also, I may be wrong, but I believe druid spells tend to be rather weaker than cleric and wizard spells. Also, if he lost a spellcasting level, why would he want to take any levels in the paragon class? He'd be losing out on spellcasting on top of his wild shape, animal companion progression, and all the other nifty things druids get. And for what? Some skill bonuses and a +2 to Wis? A few levels that he can put ranks in Hide and Move Silently? He'd be better off getting a spell to cover those things. Besides, Forest Elves are the only ones that can take levels in it, it should be special. Even as it stands, I would seriously hesitate to take any levels in it; main reason to use it is for flavor and to make the character more "Elf-like" than anything else. I probably wouldn't even look at the class if it had decreased spellcasting progression, it wouldn't be worth the trade-offs in my mind. They only really lose out on a few levels of wild shape and whatnot, which isn't the end of the world for that +2 to save DCs and all your regular spellcaster progression. I don't see any save DCs. Unless you're referring to the Ref and Will base save bonuses. I wouldn't be very tempted to trade wild shape away for some saving throws, though. EDIT: I think PrC's nowadays throw around skipped spellcasting levels way too much; losing out on a level of spellcasting is a huge deal. That's one more level it will take you before you can cast 9th-level spells, 3-4 less spells you'll be able to cast each day, one less die of damage on your fireball, -5% less chance you'll overcome a creature's spell resistance, etc. It's a humongous penalty, it shouldn't even be considered unless the class is gaining some really powerful abilities. There are a ridiculous number of PrC's out there with balance issues simply because the designers don't know how to handle this aspect of the rules. *Vents* :tantrum: I've actually considered turning the other paragons into full caster classes, but I think they might be fairly balanced as they are. I don't think it would really work to apply that formula to this paragon, though; druids are quite different from the other spellcasting classes. EDIT2: Wait a second, didn't we already have this conversation before? I remember discussing whether or not the Forest Elf Paragon should have full spellcasting....
Aramar the Black 05-22-07, 03:20 PM	This is a high-level suggestion, but I like the idea of adding in Speak with Plants.
Dyne 05-23-07, 03:26 PM	This is a high-level suggestion, but I like the idea of adding in Speak with Plants. That's a really good idea. Perhaps it could be added at 3rd-level.
Aramar the Black 05-23-07, 04:10 PM	At least, being a 3rd level druid spell. Why limit them to only the creatures of the forest, when they could speak to the forest itself, eh? :)
Aramar the Black 05-27-07, 09:14 PM	Why do elves meditate, rather than sleep?
Dyne 05-28-07, 03:03 AM	Why do elves meditate, rather than sleep? Because they're special.
Aramar the Black 05-28-07, 09:53 PM	:zzz: What if they can't sleep? What if to venture into the realm of dreams would kill them?
Dyne 05-29-07, 03:44 AM	:zzz: What if they can't sleep? What if to venture into the realm of dreams would kill them? I don't think so. Otherwise, they would probably have some racial ability where Sleep spells would be like insta-kill effects. I think it might be carried over from Tolkien's LotR Elves, which are immortal. They aren't susceptible to disease and age and such; they don't experience the same weariness that afflicts mere mortals, so their bodies don't require rest. Instead they trance, which is more of a mental exercise.
Orcy The Green Wonder 05-29-07, 02:20 PM	Oh come now, everyone knows that elves don't go to sleep because of orcs. If they go to sleep, then they dream. If they dream, then they dream of how badly the orcs beat them... with clubs. It is only natural for elves. So instead they rest their minds to avoid the horrible dreams of beating at the hands of the amazing and wondrous green ones.
CaptainShar 05-29-07, 07:09 PM	Definitely a Tolkien concept. I guess I just usually think of my elf characters as sleeping, but only for four hours. The meditation substitute makes no sense to me, since elves aren't immortal.
Dyne 05-29-07, 07:14 PM	Oh come now, everyone knows that elves don't go to sleep because of orcs. If they go to sleep, then they dream. If they dream, then they dream of how badly the orcs beat them... with clubs. It is only natural for elves. So instead they rest their minds to avoid the horrible dreams of beating at the hands of the amazing and wondrous green ones. Except trancing is dreaming. They dream without sleeping.
Orcy The Green Wonder 05-29-07, 07:42 PM	Sure, but when they trance they aren't unconcious completely. It allows them to control the dream with their mind. That way they can do the completely incredulous and rediculous, like actually defeating orcs. Everything elven can be traced back to their completely rational and overwhelming fear of orcs.
Tenzhi 06-02-07, 04:10 AM	Sure, but when they trance they aren't unconcious completely. It allows them to control the dream with their mind. That way they can do the completely incredulous and rediculous, like actually defeating orcs. Everything elven can be traced back to their completely rational and overwhelming fear of orcs. More like their rational and overwhelming fear of the Elf-Bane. :dragon:
CaptainShar 06-02-07, 10:30 PM	I think D&D elves suffer from a sad mixture of Tolkien and other fairy tales. Tolkien's elves (at least in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, less so in the Hobbit) were tall, immortal, wise, and mighty warriors. They really hadn't much in the way of powerful magicks; that was the province of the maya (like Gandalf), though they were perhaps more familiar with things that were magical than were humans. Fairy tale elves are similar to brownies, pixies, fairies, etc. They are long-lived, small, magical, dexterous but weak, comical, petty, etc. In other words, I can see why people think that those elves are "pansies." And D&D does, I think, lean to that side, with making them short, and the +DEX -CON. I like Tolkien elves. But that is not the immediate concept of "elf" for some people. And just remember, Orcy: you too are dependent on Tolkien for even establishing your beloved elf/orc rivalry. And he liked elves.
Tenzhi 06-03-07, 01:21 AM	And just remember, Orcy: you too are dependent on Tolkien for even establishing your beloved elf/orc rivalry. And he liked elves. In Tolkien, Orcs are actually ex-elves, and elves are emo (in the popular slang usage of the term).
Dyne 06-03-07, 01:24 AM	In Tolkien, Orcs are actually ex-elves, and elves are emo (in the popular slang usage of the term). How are Tolkien Elves "emo"? That's bending the word to the most extreme of its definition, and even then I can't see it as being applicable. In fact, my impression was that Tolkien Elves appeared quite emotionless (though my impression is more based on the movies than the books).
Tenzhi 06-03-07, 02:19 AM	How are Tolkien Elves "emo"? 'Oh look at how sad we are. Our race is dwindling and we are going into the West to be forgotten. Beware the sea, Legolas, or you shall become emo as well and lament about going into the West.' Oh yes, pity the poor elf who lives forever in a land of sunshine and daisies. And the poor half-elf who has to choose living forever or growing old with a smelly human.
Dyne 06-03-07, 02:22 AM	'Oh look at how sad we are. Our race is dwindling and we are going into the West to be forgotten. Beware the sea, Legolas, or you shall become emo as well and lament about going into the West.' Oh yes, pity the poor elf who lives forever in a land of sunshine and daisies. And the poor half-elf who has to choose living forever or growing old with a smelly human. :uh-huh: How is any of that emo, or even descriptive of the Elves in any way? All that was mentioned maybe once in each of the books, the Elves didn't go around "Oh, pity me for the hardships facing my race." It would be a sad occurrence for your people to be dying off to the point you have to leave your homeland, but I never saw any of the Elves whining or crying about it (though I could imagine any of the other races acting exactly like that). Then again, like I said, my opinion is more based on the movies than the books (though from what I've read in the books, I don't recall Elves being at all "emo" or whiny in them either). I think your viewpoint is skewed by your Elf-bane-ness. I suppose this is just another occurrence of "it's emo 'cause I don't like it," in which case I declare you to the death sentence. Because I absolute hate hearing that word used so much, it's completely meaningless to even say it anymore.
Tenzhi 06-03-07, 02:45 AM	:uh-huh: How is any of that emo How is self-pity emo? In popular slang usage it is the very definition of the word. And it is the vibe the majority of the elves had throughout the LotR books. And which they gave off to varying degrees in the Silmarillion as well. A contrast to how they were presented in the Hobbit, but that book was more light-hearted overall. Keep in mind that of all elves, Tolkien elves are the only ones I tend to not outright hate (half-elves are a different story in that regard). For all of their self-pity, they are an immortal race that at least isn't caught up in the ennui of boredom like so many immortals tend to be.
Dyne 06-03-07, 03:38 AM	How is self-pity emo? I challenge you to give me one quotation of a Tolkien Elf being self-pitiful. I got the completely opposite vibe from what I've read/saw.
Tenzhi 06-03-07, 04:12 AM	I challenge you to give me one quotation of a Tolkien Elf being self-pitiful. I got the completely opposite vibe from what I've read/saw. I don't have my books on hand, but still, there is the part where Galadriel says in her "soft and sad" voice: "I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel." Had I my books, I would also find and quote the passage where Legolas hears the cry of the gulls and laments that his heart shall ever yearn for the sea or some such. I might be able to find something specific in Rivendell as well. And then where Sam described the elves as being beautiful yet sad - even a dumb fat hobbit could sense the emo vibes. But you did just ask for one quote, and I provided that. You shall now claim that the passage lacked self-pity despite the inherently piteous turn of phrase. She is sad that she will diminish - fade away as a forgotten memory lost to the annals of time. She will remain Galadriel, this piteous creature that is not good enough to stay in the world.
CaptainShar 06-03-07, 11:57 AM	1. There is a time to be sad. 2. A certain wistfulness is appropriate to the Tolkien elves, during the time of the Lord of the Rings, because the time of their people was ending. And really it was more of a lingering love for mortal lands, than that their race was dying, because they had been called centuries earlier to come to the undying lands of the Valar anyway. They weren't dying off, they were getting to where they were supposed to be in the first place. 3. Have you ever read about Feanor, or some of those guys? They lived when the elves were a young race, and they had spark and fire a-plenty. A race in the bloom of its youth, or even at its height, is much different from a race toward the end. The men of Gondor were similar to the elves in LOTR, because their civilization also was on the decline. It's not because they're elves, it's because of their specific history. Thus, playing an elf in the D&D world, unless the elves in that world are also on the decline, does not at all entail a necessity to be mournful or wistful.
LordOfWolves 06-03-07, 12:38 PM	Hi everyone, I have some elf-related questions. Why is elven civilisation usually portrayed as on the decline in DnD campaign settings? Is this another remnant of their Tolkein heritage? Which elven sub-races do you use in your campaigns? Is there such a thing as too many? I personally use wood elves and lesser drow. There are elves living in the frozen north but I use wood elven stats for them. Also, what real-life civilisations do you base your elven societies on? My wood elves borrow quite heavily from insular celtic sources. Tribal warrior societies with a strong artistic streak. Thanks
Dyne 06-03-07, 03:00 PM	But you did just ask for one quote, and I provided that. You shall now claim that the passage lacked self-pity despite the inherently piteous turn of phrase. She is sad that she will diminish - fade away as a forgotten memory lost to the annals of time. She will remain Galadriel, this piteous creature that is not good enough to stay in the world. The only thing I get out of that phrase is "I won't turn into the next Sauron, and I'm going to the West." Forgive me that I don't see any self-pity there. I've always interpreted diminish to refer to "I'm getting off my high horse and going back to being just regular Galadriel," instead of an all-powerful witch that everyone loves and fears. If anything, she seemed grateful that she "passed the test," and was able to let go of the power of the ring, though a little ashamed that it was such a strong temptation to her. Hi everyone, I have some elf-related questions. Why is elven civilisation usually portrayed as on the decline in DnD campaign settings? Is this another remnant of their Tolkein heritage? I suspect so. Elves in Dragonlance also seem to be on the decline, and I believe several other core settings as well. Which elven sub-races do you use in your campaigns? Is there such a thing as too many? I personally use wood elves and lesser drow. There are elves living in the frozen north but I use wood elven stats for them. I don't believe there should ever be more than 3 or 4 Elven subraces in one setting: -Basic Elves (good as wizards) -Wood/Forest Elves (good as druids) -Drow (good as clerics and wizards) -There can typically be another subrace that's good as Sorcerers. The ones in my campaign setting are "Fire Elves," though they'll probably get a revision soon (don't really like how my first version of them turned out). Anything more than that is just too much. There should only be one subrace for each of their typical environments and for each spellcasting style. There should not be individual subraces that are each the best at everything, and all subraces should still be "Elfish", i.e. no Wood Elves that are as strong as Half-Orcs. I prefer to tweak the mental stats of subraces instead of the physical stats: all (or at least most) Elves should be agile and frail. Also, what real-life civilisations do you base your elven societies on? My wood elves borrow quite heavily from insular celtic sources. Tribal warrior societies with a strong artistic streak. Thanks I don't really base mine on any real-life societies. The Elves in my campaigns are based heavily on fantastic sources, and they're more a race of "immortals" or "fairy-people" than just a different tribe of people.
LordOfWolves 06-03-07, 03:27 PM	I don't really base mine on any real-life societies. The Elves in my campaigns are based heavily on fantastic sources, and they're more a race of "immortals" or "fairy-people" than just a different tribe of people. I didn't mean that I'd transfered Celts into my campaign setting and called them elves, what I mean is their culture is based on that of the celts. Celtic mythology is full of war and magic, two themes that are ofen associated with elves. They're still a seperate race. Also, fey are important in my setting so the "otherworldly immortal fairy-people" gig was already taken. :D
Dyne 06-03-07, 03:30 PM	I didn't mean that I'd transfered Celts into my campaign setting and called them elves, what I mean is their culture is based on that of the celts. Celtic mythology is full of war and magic, two themes that are ofen associated with elves. They're still a seperate race. Also, fey are important in my setting so the "otherworldly immortal fairy-people" gig was already taken. :D Yeah, I know. But my Elves are always so fantastical, they are not alike to any real-world culture. I suppose I base mine more on Tolkien Elves than anything.
Aramar the Black 06-03-07, 06:08 PM	Hi everyone, I have some elf-related questions. Why is elven civilisation usually portrayed as on the decline in DnD campaign settings? Is this another remnant of their Tolkein heritage? Yes. Which elven sub-races do you use in your campaigns? Is there such a thing as too many elves? I use high elves, drow, and grugach. It depends who you ask, but most people will say that there are indeed too many. Especially Tenzhi. Also, what real-life civilisations do you base your elven societies on? My wood elves borrow quite heavily from insular celtic sources. Tribal warrior societies with a strong artistic streak. In addition to a fantasy cultural base, I add flavorings of aborigional, with with strong hints of celtic (I draw inspiration from the myths and legends) and oriental. The only thing I get out of that phrase is "I won't turn into the next Sauron, and I'm going to the West." Forgive me that I don't see any self-pity there. I've always interpreted diminish to refer to "I'm getting off my high horse and going back to being just regular Galadriel," instead of an all-powerful witch that everyone loves and fears. If anything, she seemed grateful that she "passed the test," and was able to let go of the power of the ring, though a little ashamed that it was such a strong temptation to her. Ditto
Tenzhi 06-04-07, 12:12 AM	I have some elf-related questions. Why is elven civilisation usually portrayed as on the decline in DnD campaign settings? Is this another remnant of their Tolkein heritage? It's really because elves are the "cool" race. As such, they need an inherent catalyst for angst. They're a step away from having trenchcoats as a racial ability. ;) Which elven sub-races do you use in your campaigns? Is there such a thing as too many? I personally use wood elves and lesser drow. There are elves living in the frozen north but I use wood elven stats for them. I don't use very many elven subraces, and almost never use drow. If I need a "dark elf", in place of the standard drow I tend to use my own creation of Shadow Elves. Other than that, I typically only use subraces for drastically different environments - Sea Elves, Winged Elves and perhaps Ice Elves, for instance. In one setting of mine, elves had been cursed so that there were no subraces and just about every elf was a different skin/hair colour combination. Also, what real-life civilisations do you base your elven societies on? My wood elves borrow quite heavily from insular celtic sources. Tribal warrior societies with a strong artistic streak. I've used Roman once. And in a post-apocalyptic fantasy setting I had elves which were kind of corporate nazis. But usually I'm drawing on so many sources that I couldn't pinpoint one civilisation as the basis.
LordOfWolves 06-07-07, 06:28 PM	I know that people are saying that elves were morose but there are quite a few instances of them being merry and they are often described as "gay". Especially in The Hobbit. They were, in many respects, the hard-partyers of Middle-Earth. :rolleyes: Still, there is a more recent, more common elven stereotype. That of the haughty, arrogant, aloof elf who sneers at humans and other "lesser" races. In the Dragonlance campaign setting at least, this is the standard depiction of elves. I'm not as familiar with the Realms but i believe it's similar. It's not just in DnD, many novels (Eragon is a recent example) tend towards this portral too. So, where does this image come from? Surely not Tolkien again?
Aramar the Black 06-07-07, 11:25 PM	"Gay" in the original sense, of course. Just so no one gets it wrong. I think the aloofness comes ( or could come) from Tolkien; after all, elves were the first race, they are powerful and immortal, etc... And humans are brash, ruininous, dirty, short-lived,etc... So its easy to see how elves would see themselves as naturally better. Not that they actually looked down on the humans. I think the arrogance and the sneering came from modern writers; perhaps partially because envisioning aloofness without such other connotations proved difficult. Then, I'm only guessing.
Dyne 06-07-07, 11:43 PM	I think the arrogance and the sneering came from modern writers; perhaps partially because envisioning aloofness without such other connotations proved difficult. I would agree. This goes along with Halflings being changed to childlike thieves, where Tolkien had them as farmers who quite looked down on adventuring, preferring the comfort and safety of their own homes instead. Pretty much the only Tolkien race that hasn't changed much is Dwarves.
premier666 06-09-07, 06:48 PM	Lol. I wasn't intending on posting anything, but I just had to say that I use 10 (that's right, TEN) elven subraces on my campaign setting (wich is based loosely on the warhammer law vs. chaos theme) Here's the list: Shadow elves. (militaristic do-gooders) Light elves. (charismatic elves, used to dominate the world once) Golden elves; (LA 9 ancient almighty elves who left this plane of existance, ancestors of the light elves) Night elves; (LA 8 ancient almighty elves who left this plane of existance, ancestors of the shadow elves) gray elves (allies of the shadow elves) Blue elves (artificers of magic items, my way of explaning the large amount of magic itens in the campaign, allies of the shadow elves) forest elves (allies of the shadow elves) wild elves (allies of the light elves) High elves (standard race, cosmopolitan, arrogant, lawful jerks) And that's all of them. Since all my players character are fan of elves, we don't have problems with that. (except for that one guy who never plays anything but a human monk) I bet half the people on this forum would hate my campaign world. PS. All other races have subraces too, except humans.
LordOfWolves 06-10-07, 01:16 PM	Shadow elves. (militaristic do-gooders) Light elves. (charismatic elves, used to dominate the world once) Golden elves; (LA 9 ancient almighty elves who left this plane of existance, ancestors of the light elves) Night elves; (LA 8 ancient almighty elves who left this plane of existance, ancestors of the shadow elves) gray elves (allies of the shadow elves) Blue elves (artificers of magic items, my way of explaning the large amount of magic itens in the campaign, allies of the shadow elves) forest elves (allies of the shadow elves) wild elves (allies of the light elves) High elves (standard race, cosmopolitan, arrogant, lawful jerks) I bet that looks like a menu to Tenzhi :D
premier666 06-10-07, 02:17 PM	Possibly. I wonder what shadow elves tastes like?
Orcy The Green Wonder 06-10-07, 02:25 PM	Possibly. I wonder what shadow elves tastes like? Shadow chicken with a hint of arrogance.
CaptainShar 06-10-07, 03:09 PM	Whatever celestial elves don't taste like, I would imagine.
Dyne 06-10-07, 05:03 PM	Shadow chicken with a hint of arrogance. For some reason I just thought of exploding chickens. Hmm. LordOfWolves, Premier, are you two sticking around for the IFWG?
premier666 06-10-07, 08:18 PM	Hmm. I like chickens, but does this, "Arrogance" tastes good? @ Dyne Not really. I had my share of the IFGW at it's second edition (as I'm sure you remember, as my PC Darkstorm was riding along with your PC storm...hand? for the most of IFGW duration), and I'm not really eager to join it again. I feel that a player vs. player enviroment just won't work.
Dyne 06-10-07, 09:27 PM	Not really. I had my share of the IFGW at it's second edition (as I'm sure you remember, as my PC Darkstorm was riding along with your PC storm...hand? for the most of IFGW duration), and I'm not really eager to join it again. I feel that a player vs. player enviroment just won't work. That's too bad. There are some non-PvP games going on in the Legends of the Guilds forum, and I might be starting an Expedition to Castle Ravenloft game soon, if you'd be interested in any of those.
premier666 06-11-07, 08:32 AM	Oooo... Expedition to castle Ravenloft? I've always wanted to play it. If you start it, drop me a PM and I'll appear. I just don't feel like PvP, but other kinds of games I'm up for it.
Master_of_Flames 06-11-07, 03:55 PM	I seem to remember blasting you in the face a couple times with my warlock.....
LordOfWolves 06-11-07, 04:24 PM	@ Dyne Not really. I had my share of the IFGW at it's second edition (as I'm sure you remember, as my PC Darkstorm was riding along with your PC storm...hand? for the most of IFGW duration), and I'm not really eager to join it again. I feel that a player vs. player enviroment just won't work. I'm afraid I feel the same. I visit the guilds mainly for creation, discussion and RP.
premier666 06-11-07, 05:03 PM	@ LordOfWolves: Yeah, things get too competitive, and sometimes, the main objective of Roleplaying games (to have fun) is forgotten. Sure, I was really enjoying roleplaying with most people, but after that, things started to get messy. @master of flames: No, you blasted Black Mage, my other character. And for that he hates you forever. BM was also literally disarmed (IE got his arms chopped of and beaten with them) not to mention the time he got disintegrated. And that was all in the arena. Though, on his defense, if all fights started within scorching ray range, he would've won them all. @all: Hey, is it just me, or the acronym IFWG was different in the old days? I could swear it was IFGW. But maybe I'm crazy.
Dyne 06-11-07, 05:21 PM	Yeah, things get too competitive, and sometimes, the main objective of Roleplaying games (to have fun) is forgotten. Sure, I was really enjoying roleplaying with most people, but after that, things started to get messy. I know what you mean. There have been discussions to turn the IFWG into less of a PvP-oriented game, and instead having more adventures and NPC's to tackle. The arena will probably always be around, however. @all: Hey, is it just me, or the acronym IFWG was different in the old days? I could swear it was IFGW. But maybe I'm crazy. People have mistakenly called it IFGW a number of times, but it's proper abbreviation has always been IFWG: Inter-Foundation War Games. I suspect people switched the g and w around to call it Guild Wars instead.
Aramar the Black 06-11-07, 07:46 PM	People have mistakenly called it IFGW a number of times, but it's proper abbreviation has always been IFWG: Inter-Foundation War Games. I suspect people switched the g and w around to call it Guild Wars instead. I could never keep them strait, and just typed whatever. I'm sure I've called in both things many a time.
premier666 06-12-07, 08:12 AM	Well, I only remember people calling it "the guild wars", I have never heard of "war games" till now. ... Wow, I played on the thing and I didn't even know it's proper name.
Tenzhi 06-16-07, 08:57 AM	Dyne is mistaken, of course. It was originally IFGW from way back before the Foundations even had their own section. I'm not sure where he even got the WG from. If one of the iterations popped up with that acronym, I didn't notice, having already been used to the original acronym. The haughty arrogance of elves is merely an evolution of attitudes Tolkien elves exhibited. They treated the other races like children in the LotR (though usually in a more kindly than overtly patronizing manner), and their arrogance particularly shows up in The Hobbit (as do a number of racial stereotypes and prejudices, especially around the Battle of Five Armies). I don't recall D&D halflings as being particularly childlike previously. They were characterized as having a tendency towards being fat and lazy, along with a natural penchant for burglary. In D&D 3.x the original halfling seems to have gotten merged with kender (hence the resistance to fear and somewhat childlike demeanor) from Dragonlance and somewhat took the appearance of the halflings of Dark Sun.
Orcy The Green Wonder 06-16-07, 11:23 AM	The war games section originally evolved when Sil decided he wanted to change the name to something else. Orcy believes this was mainly because the Guild Wars game had either come out or been announced.
Dyne 06-16-07, 06:17 PM	Dyne is mistaken, of course. It was originally IFGW from way back before the Foundations even had their own section. I'm not sure where he even got the WG from. If one of the iterations popped up with that acronym, I didn't notice, having already been used to the original acronym. The name of the game was Inter-Foundation War Games. I remember the discussion threads for it before the game even started, and people were discussing using funky stats for mana and such. Eventually Sil set down the guidelines of D&D characters ECL 15 w/ 32 Point Buy stats, and the game began. Whether or not there was talk of an IFGW before the forum existed, I don't know. I wasn't around for the Pre-Guild House foundations and such. However, since the beginning of the Guild House forum it has been IFWG. I'm surprised that you didn't notice it in the four years or more that it's been around, but it's been there.
Tenzhi 06-17-07, 08:13 AM	Whether or not there was talk of an IFGW before the forum existed, I don't know. I wasn't around for the Pre-Guild House foundations and such. However, since the beginning of the Guild House forum it has been IFWG. I'm surprised that you didn't notice it in the four years or more that it's been around, but it's been there. I didn't notice it because it was originally IFGW and the mind will perform amazing feats of dyslexia to keep things the way they are supposed to be. Couple that with the fact that many people kept referring to it as IFGW (including, I believe, Sil, around whom much of the discourse generally centered) and it was quite easy not to notice. As Adam says: I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Aramar the Black 06-17-07, 05:55 PM	Forget P's and Q's; let's mind our W's and G's.
Dyne 06-18-07, 03:16 AM	Forget P's and Q's; let's mind our W's and G's. Truer words are seldom spoken. Does anyone have anything to add about Elves, or shall we continue debating the particulars of proper titles and abbreviations? I think I promised to make some Elven PrC's awhile back, maybe I should work on those.
Tenzhi 06-18-07, 08:39 AM	Does anyone have anything to add about Elves, or shall we continue debating the particulars of proper titles and abbreviations? It's off-topic, and yet more interesting than the given topic. ;) It occurs to me that I'm currently working up a campaign that I can only describe as Spelljammer-esque and I haven't given any thought to viable elves for the setting. Shadowspace will undoubtedly house my own special brand of Shadow Elves. Perhaps I should make subraces for the other five major sections of "space" (the Astral Plane, actually, blossoming out from the Inner Planes, eventually coming to the Ethereal barrier which one can pass through to get to the Outer Planes).
LordOfWolves 06-18-07, 03:36 PM	Is this thread discussion-only or did you intend to RP on it? Also, an elf-related question, has the Duskblade made the Bladesinger obsolete?
Dyne 06-18-07, 04:44 PM	It's off-topic, and yet more interesting than the given topic. ;) :rolleyes: It occurs to me that I'm currently working up a campaign that I can only describe as Spelljammer-esque and I haven't given any thought to viable elves for the setting. Shadowspace will undoubtedly house my own special brand of Shadow Elves. Perhaps I should make subraces for the other five major sections of "space" (the Astral Plane, actually, blossoming out from the Inner Planes, eventually coming to the Ethereal barrier which one can pass through to get to the Outer Planes). Sounds interesting. I'm not very familiar with Spelljammer, so I'm not sure I'd be of much help for that. Is this thread discussion-only or did you intend to RP on it? We haven't had RP here for awhile, but I wouldn't be against it if you wanted to get something started. Also, an elf-related question, has the Duskblade made the Bladesinger obsolete? I haven't played a Duskblade, but I think the Bladesinger was pretty much obsolete from the moment Complete Warrior was printed. I've never heard of anyone using the prestige class, and people often complained about it being underpowered. I don't think it's too bad, but I've always preferred the Eldritch Knight over the various classes/prestige classes they keep coming out with for fighter/mages.
Aramar the Black 06-18-07, 06:22 PM	I've always liked the look of the spellsword myself, but then, I've never played either class (Spellsword or Eldritch Knight). Tenzhi, being myself partially unfamiliar with Spelljammer, could you describe the other five "sections"? I can't help but thinking of actual space.
LordOfWolves 06-19-07, 01:52 PM	I've always preferred the Eldritch Knight over the various classes/prestige classes they keep coming out with for fighter/mages. Must. Not. Go. Off. Topic... :twitch: Alright then :surrender I've always found the Eldritch Knight to be quite useless compared to other 'gish' PrCs. At the very least I think mage/warriors should be able to ignore some Arcane Spell Failure chance. Otherwise they're just wizards with swords. That's just my opinion though.
Dyne 06-19-07, 05:58 PM	Alright then :surrender I've always found the Eldritch Knight to be quite useless compared to other 'gish' PrCs. At the very least I think mage/warriors should be able to ignore some Arcane Spell Failure chance. Otherwise they're just wizards with swords. That's just my opinion though. IMHO, the ability to ignore ASF is one of the most useless and overestimated abilities out there. A single feat (Still Spell) totally eliminates ASF. Or, you could buy a Metamagic Rod with Still Spell for very cheap. Or you could be a Battle Sorcerer, and not only have a better BAB but also be able to run around in a Mithral Breast Plate without worry. Or you could get a Mithral Twilight Breastplate with a thistledown suit, and you will have 0% ASF for a fairly cheap price. Or you could not use armor at all, and instead go with the Mage Armor, Shield and similar spells. Seriously, there are so ridiculously many ways to get rid of ASF, you don't need some fancy PrC to do it. In fact, you are better off without those PrC's, since you lose spellcasting for an ability you can get somewhere else. Eldritch Knight is one of the best "gish" PrC's simply because it has full BAB and 9/10 spellcasting progression. I have had many, many Eldritch Knight characters that run around in full plate, are awesome in melee combat, and can stand toe-to-toe with a mage of equal level in a spell duel. You've really got your head screwed on backwards if you think Eldritch Knight isn't a very good class, because it's one of the best ones out there.
LordOfWolves 06-19-07, 07:08 PM	You've really got your head screwed on backwards if you think Eldritch Knight isn't a very good class, because it's one of the best ones out there. :hides: I'm entitled to hold and express my opinions without someone insulting me. Just because my opinion is different does not make it irrelevant. I admit that the Eldritch Knight is a versatile class but getting rid of ASF was more of a thematic thing, a wizard who has trained in armour use instead of relying on enchanted armour and magic items. I don't have the book with me but I've always liked the Knight of the Thorn PrC from DL. I can't remember what Bab it has though.
Dyne 06-19-07, 07:35 PM	:hides: I'm entitled to hold and express my opinions without someone insulting me. Just because my opinion is different does not make it irrelevant. I did not mean it as an insult, and it was not directed at you in particular. I have seen many arguments on the Prestige Class boards about how Eldritch Knights suck, but from what I've seen the people making those arguments simply don't know how to use the class. EK is a very powerful PrC, if you know how to use it. Someone does not have to like it, but it is not correct to label it as weak, underpowered, or inferior. It is one of my favorite PrC's because of its basic design and versatility. I admit that the Eldritch Knight is a versatile class but getting rid of ASF was more of a thematic thing, a wizard who has trained in armour use instead of relying on enchanted armour and magic items. True, but there are plenty of ways to show that. Battle Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana is one of my favorite variants, and it represents a sorcerer that has spent time training to use armor and weapons. War Mage tried to do the same thing, but IMHO it is not nearly as good or as interesting; the focus on blasting spells gives it very little versatility. Spell Sword makes a reasonable attempt at it, but IMHO its loss of spellcasting is not really worth what it gains; if I were to allow the PrC in my games, I'd probably bump the spellcasting up to 7/10 at least. I haven't looked very closely at Duskblade, but it seems like a reasonable class for those who want to play a "gish" from level 1, though it's spellcasting ability seems a bit weaker in favor of more martial prowess. IMHO, if you want a "gish" that can wear armor, PrC's usually aren't the best place to look for that. From what I've seen, many of them grossly overestimate the ability to ignore Arcane Spell Failure. Instead, I would look at certain feats and items that provide the same thing. There are a few good classes worth looking at, though: Battle Sorcerer, Knight of the Thorn, and Knight Phantom (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) are all very good classes. Spell Sword would be good if it had a better spellcasting progression, and I'm not sure about Duskblade. War Mage isn't too bad, if all you want to do is blast everything that moves. Bladesinger doesn't look too bad, from what I've seen, and I believe it is another underestimated and oft overlooked PrC; however, like the Duskblade, it focuses more on martial abilities than spellcasting. I don't have the book with me but I've always liked the Knight of the Thorn PrC from DL. I can't remember what Bab it has though. Yeah, I like that one too. Its BAB is only 3/4, but it gains full spellcasting and ASF reduction. I think many people underestimate how powerful a full spellcasting progression is, and it really irks me to see so many PrC's that trade away spellcasting for little abilities that aren't really worth it. I suppose it's a fairly easy fix, though.
LordOfWolves 06-20-07, 06:32 AM	Well my first character was a Sorcerer/Fighter/Eldritch Knight and I enjoyed playing it. But this was long before I got PHB II so I didn't know about the twilight armour enhancement. I put up with some ASF and it really got on my nerves. As you said, full spellcasting is powerful, I like the Battle Sorcerer (and it is sooo much fun at lower levels :mage: :fight!:) But I don't like to lose Spells Known, Sorcerers don't have enough as it is. :( But then Mage-warrior builds are about compromise. I suppose we should return to the original topic... :elf:
Dyne 06-20-07, 07:26 AM	Well my first character was a Sorcerer/Fighter/Eldritch Knight and I enjoyed playing it. But this was long before I got PHB II so I didn't know about the twilight armour enhancement. I put up with some ASF and it really got on my nerves. My character was a Wizard/Fighter/Eldritch Knight, and I'd just apply Still Spell to every spell with a somatic component. Worked out reasonably well, though it would probably be a little more difficult for a sorcerer (since metamagic feats make spells take a full-round action). Though I agree, ASF gets on my nerves, and I can't stand to roll it every time I cast a spell. As you said, full spellcasting is powerful, I like the Battle Sorcerer (and it is sooo much fun at lower levels :mage: :fight!:) But I don't like to lose Spells Known, Sorcerers don't have enough as it is. :( But then Mage-warrior builds are about compromise. I suppose we should return to the original topic... :elf: True, but IMHO losing a few Spells Known is a lot better than losing several spellcasting levels by taking Spell Sword. Then again, it seems like not much isn't better than taking Spell Sword, unfortunately.... Original topic? We had an original topic? Oh, right, about Bladesingers. I don't think Duskblade makes the Bladesinger obsolete, since Bladesinger still gets the AC Bonus (which a lot of people seem to overlook). Also, a Bladesinger will probably be able to cast spells better than a Duskblade, since Duskblade only goes up to level 5 spells. The Duskblade is better at wearing armor, though, and it has Arcane Channeling. Overall, I think they're somewhat equal.
LordOfWolves 06-20-07, 05:01 PM	Original topic? We had an original topic? Actually, I meant elves... :D
Aramar the Black 06-20-07, 05:52 PM	Another sterotypical idea about elves these days is that they (as a rule) live in forests. Yes, there are the exotic branches, such as teh desert evles, ice elves, adn drow, but the main lin of elves is always placed in the forest. Looking back at Tolkien once more, we find that the majority of his elves actually lived in grand cave complexes. Sometimes nowhere near a forest. Nargothrond, Gondolin, and even the King of Mirkwood's castle.
Lady Rolindin 06-21-07, 02:51 AM	Here'd a good link. Elven Note book: in the Fr boards. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=732165 Good things that could be used, if you wish too.
LordOfWolves 06-21-07, 03:46 PM	Looking back at Tolkien once more, we find that the majority of his elves actually lived in grand cave complexes. Sometimes nowhere near a forest. Nargothrond, Gondolin, and even the King of Mirkwood's castle. That might derive from the image of elves as small reclusive sprites. Where do D&D elves originaly come from, Norse mythology? The sidhe of Irish mythology bear more resemblance to D&D fey than elves.
Aramar the Black 06-22-07, 01:11 PM	Not the cave thing; Elves in Valinor lived out in open plains; island hills. And Tolkien wasn't really one for the whole "small reclusive sprties" concept. Elves as a whole come from Norse mythology; Fae came from West English/French, and the Sidhe (obviously) Ireland/Gealic. Over the years, they all three have been kind of put together as a single races; interchangable, or very closely related.
CaptainShar 06-22-07, 05:56 PM	I think the caves were more for defense, though; originally elves were wandering around a starlit lake, if I remember correctly. Then there was that journey through the forests and over the sea to the bright continent of Valinor, where the light was like mingled sunlight and moonlight (from the trees). I also got the impression that the land was very open in Valinor; some gardens and one citadel but not much in the way of forest or caves.
Dyne 06-22-07, 08:25 PM	I think Tolkien has different groups of Elves; from what I can remember from the Silmarillion, one group loved the outdoors, nature, and the open sky. I believe most Elves nowadays are based on that group.
Aramar the Black 06-23-07, 03:58 PM	I think Tolkien has different groups of Elves; from what I can remember from the Silmarillion, one group loved the outdoors, nature, and the open sky. I believe most Elves nowadays are based on that group. Aye, the dark elves, the sylvan elves, and the high elves. (I'm pretty sure) Thier name descriptions don't denotate where they live geographically, at least as we might envision.
Lady Rolindin 06-24-07, 01:00 AM	Tolkien had four groups of elfs that I can find in the books that all came from the Quenya elfs (high elfs): the Quenya elfs High elfs the Sindarin elfs High elfs- who broke off from the Quneya elfs. The dark elfs who are called Moriquendi Not like the Drow, but more like wild elfs. Called the Hiders in the woods shadows. From the Quenya elf named Eol who betrayed them and strarted his own elf clan. the Eglath, the forsaken people- elfs clan looking for the Thingol. Thingol is the elven kingdom of Doriath, what happen to the Eglath is not really expained as to if they found the kingdom of Doriath. But they are another splenter elf group from the Quenya elfs. If the games are going to happen again is this guild going to be part of the guild wars again? Tenzhi I know about Spelljammer, I have played the game for some time. The rest of you should look into spell jammer, there are elfs in space and the elfs have an High Elven fleet and many worlds they control and vistite.
Tenzhi 06-25-07, 09:09 PM	Tenzhi, being myself partially unfamiliar with Spelljammer, could you describe the other five "sections"? I can't help but thinking of actual space. Here's the setup: At the center of the Astral Plane ("space" as it were) are the Inner Planes (Fire, Earth, Water, Air, Positive Energy, and Negative Energy (or Light and Dark, respectively)). The Inner Planes are arranged in a sphere at the center of the Astral Plane, and their influence radiates outward into space. Arranged on a compass, Light would be north, Earth would be West, Air would be East, and Dark would be South. Fire would be in the center foreground, and Water would be in the center background. Fire creates a thick black smoke suffused with sparks and burning embers. Water sprays out and creates a thick mist suffused with sparkling chunks of ice. The mist and smoke envelope the entire Astral Plane, consequently surrounding it with the Ethereal Plane. If you travel straight out from the plane of Fire, through the Smoke and Ether, you will eventually come to the Mist and then the plane of Water. Air's space is largely empty, filled with swirling, often dangerous winds. Nearest the plane of Air is an area of continuous wind storms called The Maelstrom. If you travel straight out from the plane of Air, through the Ether, you will find yourself in the plane of Limbo. Dark's space is filled with Blackstars - spheres of various size that radiate darkness and sometimes negative energy as well. The area closest to the plane of Dark is called Shadowspace - essentially the demiplane of Shadow. The Shadow Elves live there. If you travel straight out from the plane of Dark through the Ether, you will find yourself in The Grey Waste. Light's space is filled with Brightstars - spheres of light that occasionally radiate positive energy (which can be beneficial, but also destructive). The area nearest the plane of light is called Glowspace. Not many beings can tolerate the positive energy suffusing the area for long. If you travel straight out from the plane of Light through the Ether, you will find yourself in the planes of Elysium. Earth's space is the most habitable. It is filled with chunks of earth of various sizes, many of which have been colonized by a vast array of lifeforms. It is where most of the campaign will undoubtedly take place. Nearest the plane of Earth is a great field of rocks that is difficult to navigate safely that is known as the Astral Reef. If you travel straight out from the plane of Earth through the Ether, you will reach Mechanus. The closer to the edges of space you get, the more bleed through from the Outer Planes there is. Discarded and broken cogs litter the edges of Earth space, and near the edge of Earth space and the border of Darkspace there is even an entire cubic planetoid that must have drifted out of Acheron. Direction corresponds to alignment, and thus a key navigational item is the Moral Compass, which always points towars the alignment of the holder (making life difficult for True Neutral characters, for whom it just spins). That's a brief description anyway. The only races I've specifically nailed down are Azers, who live in the area near the plane of Fire, Shadow Elves, and the Warforged Empire (who have taken over much of Dark Space). EDIT: Also note that this is not the way Spelljammer is actually setup and I know that. I'm not running Spelljammer, I'm doing something I describe as "Spelljammer-esque" as that quickly gets across the idea of "D&D in Space." With odd boat-like ship designs, swashbuckling adventure, and such.
Aramar the Black 06-25-07, 10:37 PM	Very nice. I wouldn't think you'd need eles for every plane, but sticking some in the plane of earth (where PCs might first encounter them) (plus, how often do you see an earth elf subrace?), and maybe one more in a place of your choosing.
Dyne 06-25-07, 10:48 PM	If you're gonna have Shadow Elves, it would make sense to also create their counterpart. Call them Light Elves I guess. I suppose Aquatic Elves could live in the Plane of Water. Not sure if you want to come up with Fire Elves as well. Alternatively, if you want to cut down on subraces, you could have a single "Material Elf" race: they live in tree villages (the fusion of earth and water), high up next to the sky, and wielding the fire of magic. Or something like that. Be back with more thoughts later.
Tenzhi 06-25-07, 11:03 PM	If you're gonna have Shadow Elves, it would make sense to also create their counterpart. Call them Light Elves I guess. I was thinking about it. I was essentially considering Celestial Winged Elves for it, actually. And sea elves are a natch for the Water area. Or some sort of arctic elf. That may be enough in itself, but the idea of an Earth elf has me intrigued, given that such is usually the domain of dwarves and gnomes. Perhaps elves that are actually wooden. Root elves. It fits Earth, and it suits general elvish-ness. Alternatively, if you want to cut down on subraces, you could have a single "Material Elf" race: Now see, the question that raises in my mind, is whether or not you intended to start my brain thinking of Material Girl parodies. No one else matters - only think of myself/Cause I am a Material Elf
Aramar the Black 06-25-07, 11:12 PM	See, elven subraces have already been created that fit in all the other "planes", and having light elves to counter the dark is obvious and cliche. (not that I'm condeming it. but it's an easy move) If the main campaign will take place in the earthern plane, than the earth elves (or metal, or tree, or whatever) will be the first the PC may interact with, and get to know. Maybe they are skilled at navigating the Reef.
Dyne 06-25-07, 11:31 PM	I was thinking about it. I was essentially considering Celestial Winged Elves for it, actually. And sea elves are a natch for the Water area. Or some sort of arctic elf. That may be enough in itself, but the idea of an Earth elf has me intrigued, given that such is usually the domain of dwarves and gnomes. Perhaps elves that are actually wooden. Root elves. It fits Earth, and it suits general elvish-ness. Root Elves would be a very interesting idea. Perhaps give them an ability to transform into a Treant or somesuch. Now see, the question that raises in my mind, is whether or not you intended to start my brain thinking of Material Girl parodies. No one else matters - only think of myself/Cause I am a Material Elf LOL didn't even cross my mind.
Tenzhi 07-01-07, 06:04 PM	Real quick, all stats no fluff, opinions on LA especially sought (but suggestions on tweaks welcome): Shadow Elf Shadow elves live on the fringes of the plane of negative energy, in a section of the astral plane known as Shadowspace, which is often referred to in the Prime as the demi-plane of Shadow. Before the Warforged Empire took over most of Dark Space, they were a reclusive society. But many of them were killed by the Empire and the remainder are mostly scattered across Earth Space. Shadow Elves appear as normal elves made entirely of solid Shadow. Their flesh is the hazy, dark gray of a clearly cast shadow in reasonably well lit room. Their hair is the inky black of the shadowy recesses of a cave. Small bits of the shadowy matter seem to drift into and out of them, giving them a surreal appearance. Their eye colour varies from person to person - some shadow elves have glowing green eyes, some have yellow, red, blue, violet, or even white. Even the intensity of the glow varies between elves. +4 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength. Medium: As Medium creatures, shadow elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Shadow elf base land speed is 30 feet. Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects. Darkvision: Shadow elves can see in the dark up to 120 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and shadow elves can function just fine with no light at all. +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. A shadow elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he were actively looking for it. +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. Automatic Languages: Common and Umbral. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Terran, Aquan, Ignan, Auran, Infernal, and Abyssal. Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds shadow elves for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area. Favored Class: Rogue. A multiclass shadow elf’s rogue class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Level Adjustment +1 Root Elf Root elves are native to the fringe of the plane of Earth. There they tend what has become known as the Great Astral Reef - a maze of rocks, earth, and crystals, joined together by various fungi and wood-like growths that is inhabited by all manner of strange creatures. Root elves are tall and slender, their flesh seeming to be made of smooth, unblemished, barkless wood. Their hair is like very long, fine pine needles. Their heads make great air fresheners (attached or not). +2 Strength. Medium: As Medium creatures, root elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Root elf base land speed is 20 feet. +2 natural armor Darkvision: Root elves can see in the dark up to 90 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and root elves can function just fine with no light at all. Automatic Languages: Common and Terran. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Aquan, Ignan, Celestial, Umbral. Root elves have the following plant-type qualities: Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, polymorph, and stunning. Not subject to critical hits. Plants breathe and eat, but do not sleep. Favored Class: Druid. A multiclass root elf’s druid class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. Level Adjustment +1 EDIT: Added light blindness to shadow elves and fixed their ability modifiers (twice! darn my noggin). Added plant qualities to Root Elves. Oh, and a bit of fluff.
Dyne 07-01-07, 07:03 PM	I don't think either one is powerful enough to warrant an LA, but neither are they exactly LA +0 either. For Shadow Elves, I would recommend implementing some sort of Light Blindness quality, similar to what Drow have, and letting them stay LA +0. Root Elves could be considered plant creatures, giving them a few immunities and perhaps making them worth an LA +1.
Aramar the Black 07-02-07, 12:33 PM	They look good to me; though the Light Blindness suggestion is good.
Tenzhi 07-05-07, 12:23 AM	And now the Serelf. These guys aren't necessarily meant as a player race, but it could happen. They are tall, slender, and winged, with beautiful yet severe elvish features. They live in the fringes of the positive energy plane, and have developed unique methods of survival as well as some not-so-unique methods. They are a warlike race who revel in combat - a defense mechanism against positive energy storms, where taking damage is sometimes the only way to keep from exploding. Serelf Medium size 30' base speed, Fly 30' (Good) +4 Dex, -4 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, +4 Cha Protected vision: Serelves' natural environment is dangerously bright. They do not have darkvision or low-light vision; however, their eyes are naturally protected from light-based attacks. Serelves are immune to light-based attacks to their eyes, and have a 50% chance to ignore the effects of any gaze attack. Positive energy resistance: Positive energy effects (such as healing spells) are at half effect against serelves. It takes two resurrection or raise dead type spells to bring a serelf back to life. While this racial ability persists beyond death, it does not persist into undeath, much to the disappointment of many a necromancer. Empathic aura: Serelves emit an empathic aura to a radius of 10 feet. Any wounds caused within that radius to someone other than the serelf do one point of damage per die to the serelf. This aura is visible as a golden glow and causes a -8 penalty to hide rolls. Chaotic: Serelves are always chaotically aligned, and a bit crazy. Many of them are addicted to the pain caused by their empathic aura. Most of them are chaotic neutral, but some have swayed to the sides of good and evil. Favored class: Barbarian.
Xen155 11-09-07, 01:02 AM	DYNE! Keeping the elven foundation alive I see. Good, great fantastic. Sign me back up mate. On the subject of shadow elves: It seems to me that in darkness they should have a weak invisibility like affect. Don't know if this would be too powerfull though.