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| Dyne12-08-05, 09:55 PM | Moff Taldur stared at the view screen, waiting for the message to load. It was a mission directly from the Emperor himself, and he was curious as to what it contained. Moff Taldur always was very adventurous for an Imperial Officer, and traveling to strange worlds on top-secret missions was the spice of his life. The image of Emperor Palpatine appeared on the view screen, and he began speaking. "This is a top secret message, from my mouth to your ears. I expect you to remove it from your database when you are through with its contents, to prevent the information herein from falling into unwelcome hands. "We have developed technology that allows us to use wormholes to travel to different galaxies, alternate realities that may be very different from our own. I am trusting you to put this technology to good use. I have arranged for you to take a detachment through the wormhole, to scout out the new area, and if possible, find a way to profit the Empire with what you find. If you come across civilization of any kind, you are to subjugate to the will of the Empire. "The Rebel Alliance may try to stop you in this mission. It will not be surprising for their intelligence to come across this information and attempt to foil your task. If such occurs, I am certain you are familiar with our policy to deal with the Rebel scum." The purpose of this guild is to discuss material from the Star Wars Roleplaying Game, especially that pertaining to the Galactic Empire, as well as to develop mechanics to allow Star Wars material to fit into a D&D-oriented campaign. Despite the name of the guild, characters that are not affiliated with the Empire (but are still SW characters) are free to join, until guilds appropriate for their factions are created. Members Dyne (Moff) |
| Dyne12-08-05, 10:00 PM | Reserved |
| Dyne12-08-05, 10:05 PM | "Fixes" to make the Star Wars rules work in a D&D-oriented campaign Hit Points: Vitality Points become HP. Wound Points are eliminated. Defense Bonus: The class defense bonus stays, but it does not stack with armor. Armor grants a bonus to Defense (AC), instead of Damage Reduction.* Armor: See above. Each class also receives a free Armor Proficiency feat at 1st-level. Money: Kept separate. Credits are different from gold pieces. Reputation: Reputation stays. D&D characters will probably receive their own Reputation bonus. Characters can gather followers by taking the Leadership feat, as per the D&D rules. Force Points: Force Points will be kept, and will be the same thing as Action Points. All characters, including D&D, D20, and SWRPG, will start with the same number of Force/Action Points, and will gain more as they increase in level. Force-using classes shall remain unchanged, still using their Force Skills as normal. Dark Side Points: Dark Side points are to be eliminated. Instead, characters will use the D&D alignment system. Force Skills: Remain mostly unchanged. Since there is no longer Vitality, they will drain HP. The HP Cost of Force skills and feats is one-half its VP Cost. If a character doesn't have enough hit poitns, she can't draw on the Force until her hit points are restored. A character could her HP down to 1 with Force powers. Critical Hits: Deal x2 damage, since WP are eliminated. Knocked Out: This combat rule is eliminated. Stablizing: As D&D rules. When reduced to -1 HP or lower, there is a 10% each round that the character will stabilize. Otherwise, he loses another HP, and dies if reaching -10 HP. Attack an Object: As Sunder in D&D rules. Bull Rush: As Bull Rush in D&D rules. I will make updates to this post on a regular basis, including adaptations to material that depends SWRPG mechanics. For reference: D&D v3.5 SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35) Official rules of the D&D game system. Where the D&D rules and the SW rules conflict, D&D takes priority. * In the previous version, armor gave a Defense (AC) bonus. If someone has the original rulebook and can give me the numbers, we'll use that. Otherwise, armor grants an AC bonus equal to its DR. |
| Dyne12-08-05, 10:09 PM | Let the posting begin. I am planning on having a character for this guild, Moff Taldur, as mentioned above. Being a Noble/Officer/Imperial Moff, he will have his own personal Star Destroyer, not to mention some support from the Empire (in the form of Resource Access, Requisition Supplies, and Leadership). I plan on getting the Hero's Guide soon, and I'm working on some goodies for this guild, including a revised Jedi class or two. |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:04 PM | I had created some Star Wars Epic Level Rules for characters above 20th-level, but I can't find the thread where I posted all of it, it was such a long time ago. I'll see if I can post it up again. |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:10 PM | Epic Levels work the same way in the Star Wars Roleplaying Game as they do in D&D. To increase a class beyond 20th-level, use the following guideline. Repeat the 10 levels beyond 30th-level, so (for example) a character would gain the same abilities at 35th-level as he would at 25th-level. Epic Fringer Level Special 21 Bonus Class Skill 22 Barter +5 23 Survival +2 24 Bonus Class Skill 25 Bonus Feat 26 -- 27 -- 28 Bonus Class Skill 29 Survival +2 30 Bonus Feat |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:12 PM | Epic Noble Level Special 21 Favor +1 22 -- 23 Bonus Feat 24 Favor +1 25 Coordinate +1 26 -- 27 Bonus Feat 28 Favor +1 29 Coordinate +1 30 Bonus Feat |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:13 PM | Epic Scoundrel Level Special 21 Precise Attack +1 22 -- 23 Lucky (+1/day) 24 Skill Emphasis 25 Bonus Feat 26 Precise Attack +1 27 Skill Emphasis 28 Lucky (+1/day) 29 Bonus Feat 30 Skill Emphasis |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:15 PM | Epic Scout Level Special 21 Bonus Feat 22 -- 23 Heart +1 24 -- 25 Skill Mastery 26 Bonus Feat 27 -- 28 Heart +1 29 -- 30 Skill Mastery |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:16 PM | Epic Soldier Level Special 21 -- 22 Bonus Feat 23 -- 24 Bonus Feat 25 -- 26 Bonus Feat 27 -- 28 Bonus Feat 29 -- 30 Bonus Feat |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:17 PM | Epic Tech Specialist Level Special 21 -- 22 Tech Specialty 23 -- 24 Expert 25 Tech Specialty 26 -- 27 Instant Mastery 28 Tech Specialty 29 -- 30 Expert |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:19 PM | Epic Force Adept Level Special 21 Force Weapon +1d8 22 Force Talisman +2 23 Force Secret 24 Skill Emphasis 25 Bonus Feat 26 Force Weapon +1d8 27 Force Talisman +2 28 Force Secret 29 Skill Emphasis 30 Bonus Feat |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:22 PM | Epic Jedi Consular Level Special 21 -- 22 Deflect (defense) 23 Bonus Feat 24 Deflect (attack -1) 25 Skill Emphasis 26 Increase Lightsaber Damage 27 Deflect (defense) 28 Bonus Feat 29 Skill Emphasis 30 Increase Lightsaber Damage |
| Dyne12-08-05, 11:24 PM | Epic Jedi Guardian Level Special 21 -- 22 Deflect (defense) 23 Increase Lightsaber Damage 24 Bonus Feat 25 Deflect (defense) 26 Increase Lightsaber Damage 27 -- 28 Deflect (defense) 29 Increase Lightsaber Damage 30 Bonus Feat |
| jagggar12-09-05, 12:09 AM | "Fixes" to make the Star Wars rules work in a D&D-oriented campaign Hit Points: Vitality Points become HP. Wound Points are eliminated. Defense Bonus: The class defense bonus is eliminated. Instead, armor grants a bonus to Defense (AC).* Money: Kept separate. Credits are different from gold pieces. Reputation: Reputation is eliminated. Characters can gather followers by taking the Leadership feat, as per the D&D rules. Force Points: Eliminated. Force-using classes shall remain unchanged, still using their Force Skills as normal. Dark Side Points: Dark Side points are to be eliminated. Instead, characters will use the D&D alignment system. I will make updates to this post on a regular basis, including adaptations to material that depends SWRPG mechanics. Since I like messing around with stuff. . . Vitality -> HP So are threat ranges on weapons turned into critical multipliers? Defense Bonus Do the SW classes get armor profiency feats as bonus feats or must they be taken? What's the astrik mean? All I can think of at the moment. |
| Dyne12-09-05, 12:30 AM | Since I like messing around with stuff. . . Vitality -> HP So are threat ranges on weapons turned into critical multipliers? Defense Bonus Do the SW classes get armor profiency feats as bonus feats or must they be taken? What's the astrik mean? All I can think of at the moment. Threat Ranges remain the same. Instead of dealing damage to Wound Points, a critical hit does x2 damage. Actually, the Soldier is the only class that starts off with any Armor Proficiency. Armor is very crappy in SWRPG, and it's not used much. Since the classes would be without a Defense Bonus, characters would depend more on armor. So, I would suggest giving a free Armor Prof. feat to every class, so they stand a chance against the D&D characters. I forgot to type in the asterisk (*). In the previous version, armor gave a Defense (AC) bonus. If someone has the original rulebook and can give me the numbers, we'll use that. Otherwise, armor grants an AC bonus equal to its DR: Blast helmet, vest (+2 AC) Combat jumpsuit (+3 AC) Padded flight suit (+2 AC) Armor flight suit (+4 AC) Battle armor, padded (+4 AC) Battle armor, medium (+5 AC) Armored spacesuit (+6 AC) Battle armor, heavy (+7 AC) Corellian powersuit (+4 AC) Stormtrooper armor (+5 AC) Battleframe (+3 AC) |
| Demonfey12-09-05, 12:34 AM | I've got a good one: what would a lightsaber be when attempted to be magically made? |
| Dyne12-09-05, 12:36 AM | I've got a good one: what would a lightsaber be when attempted to be magically made? The closest thing would be a Brilliant Energy Longsword. However, there could probably be made a Lightsaber magical enhancement (+5 cost) which allowed the weapon to damage objects, also ignoring their hardness. |
| Tenzhi12-09-05, 02:49 AM | It would have to be able to harm undead and constructs as well. Basically it would be a weapon that you make touch attacks with, that ignores hardness when used to attack objects, and which inflicts sunder damage on any non-lightsabre weapon which attempts to sunder it. |
| turalisj12-09-05, 07:04 AM | The closest thing would be a Brilliant Energy Longsword. However, there could probably be made a Lightsaber magical enhancement (+5 cost) which allowed the weapon to damage objects, also ignoring their hardness. actualy, a +1 hiding brilliant energy adamantine longsword. |
| thasis12-09-05, 02:37 PM | This is cool. When I get the net back I'm totally working with this. |
| Dyne12-09-05, 05:22 PM | It would have to be able to harm undead and constructs as well. Basically it would be a weapon that you make touch attacks with, that ignores hardness when used to attack objects, and which inflicts sunder damage on any non-lightsabre weapon which attempts to sunder it. Yeah, that's what I meant, since Brilliant Energy can't do damage to nonliving material. I addressed a few revisions to the SWRPG mechanics that would bring it inline with D&D rules. However, a few of the revisions would make certain SWRPG rules outdated, such as a few feats, PrC abilities, etc. So, I post up ideas to revise this material to be compatible with the proposed revised mechanics. Additionally, there is some material that is in both the SWRPG and D&D rulesets, but use slightly different mechanics. Where the rulesets conflict, the D&D rules shall receive precedence, but I will mention the ones that I come across to remind people. |
| turalisj12-09-05, 05:32 PM | Why not a mordikanen's sword (sp?). Just have a crystal focus that contains the spell, and a hilt, then bam, instant lightsaber. |
| Dyne12-09-05, 06:44 PM | Why not a mordikanen's sword (sp?). Just have a crystal focus that contains the spell, and a hilt, then bam, instant lightsaber. Only problem is it's one time use item. And no light effects! Of course, we can now use the SWRPG rules to get a lightsaber, or even become a Jedi/Sith. Currently, I'm rather interested in numbers. I really need to get my hands on the Hero's Guide, it has a great deal of the information I'm looking for. One of the big problems we could encounter is the issue of wealth. How much would this guild start out with? Could we estimate the equivalent value of gold pieces and credits? I know that the Hero's Guide has a chart for starting wealth of characters above 1st-level. Conceivably, we could just multiply the wealth of a 15th-level character by 5 (guilds start off with 5 times as much as a 15th-level D&D character). |
| Dyne12-09-05, 10:04 PM | I don't know what to do here: What happens for particular things that require a Force Point, such as constructing a lightsaber? I originally had Force Points eliminated to make it more like D&D. Of course, there could be the alternative of giving all the other characters Force Points as well (or Action Points, from Eberron and D20 Modern). |
| alaron12-10-05, 01:38 PM | Tough I think that the lightsaber is an issue that needs to be addressed, as well as the method of handling force points, I think that it is more imperative to look at the use of force skills. 1) with the system that has been purposed one could die through use of the force. Consider the table for move object. as weight increases by a factor of ten the DC increases by 5 and the vitality point cost doubles, that means that if a character wanted to lift a 500 million kg item it would cost them 256 hit points, enough to kill most force users if they are completely healthy. 2) The rate at which Vitality points regenerate is much faster than that of hit points. The VPs return 1point per level per hour, and even faster with Bacta, yet hit points return at the rate of 1 hit point per level per night of sleep. 3) The abilities seem to only get cut and during some simulations I sis I was and myself came to the conclusion that with out the physical bonuses granted by the Jedi guardians, the forcer user was soundly defeated. 4) Force using classes lose VP whether they succeed or not, with the exception being force heal. Even though one can make that same argument for a mage, the mage does not suffer from an ever present 5% chance of loss of a spell slot. also most of the mages spells do not require a check or attack roll. 5) Spells will return after one nights rest, and the power with which the force is used will take much longer for a full recovery if this system is used. To correct these problem areas I would like to purpose a change in the system, either using a new form of VP, or leave the WP and VP system intact and instead alter the DnD system to fit. The new form of VP would be simple. The maximum value for a characters VP will be half of their HP. As a force user is damaged they lose 1VP for every 2 HP lost. A strict 2HP:1VP ratio is not needed, the VP can be spent with out affecting the HP. This means that VP are directly affected by HP, but VP do not directly affect HP. VP will return at the at the same rate as described in SWRPG core book Revised edition. As an example: If a character has 100 HP and 45 VP (you are not at maximum VP because some force skills have been used ) This character damaged for 90 HP and therefore 45 VP were taken away. After that attack you were left with 10 HP but 0 VP. Assuming the thing that attacked you does not kill you . You are now able to regain up to 5 VP until you gain some more HP. IF at that point you were to be healed, either through the force, mundane means, or magic, you would gain the amount of HP determined by the spell or ability, along with one half that value in Vitality Points. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 02:16 PM | Tough I think that the lightsaber is an issue that needs to be addressed, as well as the method of handling force points, I think that it is more imperative to look at the use of force skills. 1) with the system that has been purposed one could die through use of the force. Consider the table for move object. as weight increases by a factor of ten the DC increases by 5 and the vitality point cost doubles, that means that if a character wanted to lift a 500 million kg item it would cost them 256 hit points, enough to kill most force users if they are completely healthy. The same exact thing could happen if we were still using VP and WP, except there is that certain restriction: "If a character doesn't have enough vitality points, she can't draw on the Force until her vitality is restored." In this case, substitute "vitality points" with "hit points." So, a character could spend his hit points for Force skill to the point to reduce his HP to 0, but not below. If this needs to be added to my revisions, I will put it in. 2) The rate at which Vitality points regenerate is much faster than that of hit points. The VPs return 1point per level per hour, and even faster with Bacta, yet hit points return at the rate of 1 hit point per level per night of sleep. The same goes for D&D: 1 HP per level per day. However, this could possibly affect using Force skills. So, I was considering cutting the Vitality Point (or HP in this case) Cost in half or so, as though they were spending Wound Points (see the Control feat (Prolong Force ability), which allows a person to spend Wound Points at half cost of Vitality). I could edit this into the revisions. 3) The abilities seem to only get cut and during some simulations I sis I was and myself came to the conclusion that with out the physical bonuses granted by the Jedi guardians, the forcer user was soundly defeated. In the revisions, yes, SW stuff seems to just get "cut." Really, though, I tried more to substitute the SW stuff with the D&D equivalent. In the revisions, SW characters might suffer from not having Class Defense, Reputation, and all that other stuff, but armor is much more useful, they are much less vulnerable to death (Hit Points instead of VP and WP), and I was going to add an Armor Prof. feat to each class, to help them out just a little more. Overall, it wouldn't surprise me if they were a bit weaker because the technology and Force powers of SWRPG are significantly weaker than the magic of D&D. So, I was planning on creating a number of additional items/powers that would put them on par. 4) Force using classes lose VP whether they succeed or not, with the exception being force heal. Even though one can make that same argument for a mage, the mage does not suffer from an ever present 5% chance of loss of a spell slot. also most of the mages spells do not require a check or attack roll. I didn't write the rules, and I don't really agree with how they handled Force powers. If you want, I could create a generic Jedi class, based on D&D's Psionic rules. I didn't really see a need to, though, and I thought people would be frustrated if they had a really awesome Jedi character, and they come here and have to create a completely different one, learn completely different rules to do it. 5) Spells will return after one nights rest, and the power with which the force is used will take much longer for a full recovery if this system is used. True, but Force-users in general are significantly more powerful physically than their spellcaster counterparts in D&D. Compare a Jedi Guardian to a Hex Blade from Complete Warrior or the standard Paladin, which would be the Jedi's equivalent. I would bet that the Jedi would win, because he has superior combat abilities and superior "magical" abilities. But the only solution I know of would be to totally restructure the system, and I didn't want to take such drastic measures, at least not yet. To correct these problem areas I would like to purpose a change in the system, either using a new form of VP, or leave the WP and VP system intact and instead alter the DnD system to fit. Altering the D&D system is almost certainly not an option. The sad truth is that this is a D&D game, this IFWG, not a SW one. While it might be more convenient for us if the D&D rules were altered in some places, were are hugely outnumbered by D&D players. The new form of VP would be simple. The maximum value for a characters VP will be half of their HP. As a force user is damaged they lose 1VP for every 2 HP lost. A strict 2HP:1VP ratio is not needed, the VP can be spent with out affecting the HP. This means that VP are directly affected by HP, but VP do not directly affect HP. VP will return at the at the same rate as described in SWRPG core book Revised edition. As an example: If a character has 100 HP and 45 VP (you are not at maximum VP because some force skills have been used ) This character damaged for 90 HP and therefore 45 VP were taken away. After that attack you were left with 10 HP but 0 VP. Assuming the thing that attacked you does not kill you . You are now able to regain up to 5 VP until you gain some more HP. IF at that point you were to be healed, either through the force, mundane means, or magic, you would gain the amount of HP determined by the spell or ability, along with one half that value in Vitality Points. Not a bad system, but I'm not sure that it would be compatible with D&D. I have two ideas that could fix this problem: -Cut the VP/HP cost in half -Redo the Jedi class There is much material in the Psionic rules that is very similar to the Force, and I've already had ideas for a new Jedi class, but I would like to leave both systems, SWRPG and D&D, as intact as possible. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 02:42 PM | A comparison of the SWRPG D&D and systems. Overall, I believe both systems are relatively equal, but incompatible. One of the purposes of this guild is to attempt to make each system compatible, while retaining the equality in power. SWRPG D&D Species = Races Classes = Classes Armor < Armor VP/WP < HP Force Powers < Magic Equipment < Magic Items Defense Bonus Reputation Force Points Vehicles and Starships As you can see, the SWRPG system has 4 deficiencies to the D&D system. To make up for it, they have 4 extra mechanics that bump it up to equal the D&D system. Now, here's what my proposed changes would do to it: SWRPG D&D Species = Races Classes = Classes Armor = Armor VP/WP = HP Force Powers < Magic Equipment = Magic Items Vehicles and Starships So, by getting rid of the deficiencies in Armor, VP/WP, and Equipment, the Class Defense, Reputation, and Force Points could hypothetically be removed and still keep the two systems balanced, but more compatible. The way in which to make Equipment equal to Magic Items would be to create a large number of SW items that would be equivalent to D&D items (gauntlets of strength, bracers of armor (generate a shield)). However, this might take a great deal of time, and I don't know what items already exist in the Arms and Equipment Guide, the Hero's Guide, or other supplements. Alternatively, the Force-using classes could be over-hauled, making their Force powers equal to D&D spellcasting. Either way, though, the two systems should remain equal in power to one another. |
| Masters of the House12-10-05, 02:42 PM | I've got a bad idea: What if we changed as little as possible? It might be a little confusing at first, but it would leave both systems intact for the most part. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 02:49 PM | I've got a bad idea: What if we changed as little as possible? It might be a little confusing at first, but it would leave both systems intact for the most part. Who are you, you strange, three-faced being?! ;) That's always an option. I posted up my revision ideas to better keep track of them, and for just in case we do decide that a revision is necessary. |
| turalisj12-10-05, 02:57 PM | NO! force does not equal magic. If anything, it would equal psionics. |
| Zombomaniac12-10-05, 03:01 PM | Ya force is not magic. It is more like Psionic's long lost Cousin. Also I think as little as possible should be changed, but we must change everything we need to changed so that SWRPG will mesh with the DnD rules. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 03:01 PM | NO! force does not equal magic. If anything, it would equal psionics. :confused: I didn't say Force equalled magic. I compared Force to magic because they are used for exactly the same thing, but the Force powers are less powerful than spells. Of course, the Force could be compared to Psionics, but Psionics equal Magic (unless you're one of those people that thinks Psionics is overpowered). If I were to create a Jedi character using D&D rules, I would make him a Psion. In fact, I'm considering creating a totally new system for the SWRPG, with a Jedi class created based on the Psionics rules. |
| Demonfey12-10-05, 03:15 PM | Force=incarnum/warlock combo (some spell likes, some boosts to abilities, some altering of bodies). Especially Sith powers. |
| jagggar12-10-05, 03:24 PM | They need to invent an easier way to switch accounts. . . I mean something along the lines of a D&D character fighting a SW character with a pick would threaten a critical (direct damage to WP) on 18-20. The SW characters don't need to mesh D&D characters. SW characters need to be able to mesh with D&D combat. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 03:24 PM | Force=incarnum/warlock combo (some spell likes, some boosts to abilities, some altering of bodies). Especially Sith powers. There are Psionic powers that sound exactly like Force powers that were used in the movies. Is anyone else reminded of Darth Vader when they read Crisis of Breath or Crisis of Life? I created a whole list of Psionic powers that could work as Force powers, and the list was like 5 pages long. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 03:26 PM | They need to invent an easier way to switch accounts. . . I mean something along the lines of a D&D character fighting a SW character with a pick would threaten a critical (direct damage to WP) on 18-20. The SW characters don't need to mesh D&D characters. SW characters need to be able to mesh with D&D combat. Yes. But with my revisions, SW characters wouldn't have WP, so a critical would just be a regular critical (extra damage). |
| jagggar12-10-05, 03:45 PM | Well if we do the bare minimum, then force powers don't particularly have to be reworked. (Creating "D&D versions" of the classes could still be a goal of the guild, but would not be required before people could use SW characters.) |
| Demonfey12-10-05, 03:55 PM | Just give them limited psionic power lists. Like a bard or other small list caster, except with (maybe) higher level powers. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 04:03 PM | I dug up my old notes. Keep in mind that I haven't look at these for awhile, so some of it might be slightly off. Jedi/Psionic Powers Animal Affinity Apopsi ?Astral Seed? Attraction Aura Alteration (?Dark Side?) Aura Sight Aversion Bestow Power Body Adjustment (Light Side) Body Purification Brain Lock (Dark Side) Burst Call to Mind Catapsi Catfall Charm Clairtangent Hand Clairvoyant Hand Clairvoyant Sense Cloud Mind Cloud Mind, Mass Conceal Thoughts Concussion Blast Control Body Correspond Crisis of Breath (Dark Side) Crisis of Life (Dark Side) Danger Sense Deceleration (Dark Side) Decerebrate (Dark Side) Demoralize (Dark Side) Destiny Dissonance (?Dark Side?) Detect Hostile Intent Detect Psionics (called Detect Force) Detect Remote Viewing Disable (?Dark Side?) Dispel Psionics (called Dispel Force) Dispelling Buffer Distract Divination Dominate, Psionic Ego Whip (?Dark Side?) Empathy Empty Mind Energy Bolt (electricity only) (Dark Side) Energy Cone (electricity only) (Dark Side) Energy Conversion Energy Push (electricity only) (Dark Side) Energy Ray (electricity only) (Dark Side) Energy Stun (electricity only) (Dark Side) Escape Detection Evade Burst False Sensory Input Far Hand Fate Link Fate of One Feat Leech (?Dark Side?) Hustle Hypercognition Inflict Pain (Dark Side) Levitate, Psionic Mental Disruption Metafaculty Mind Probe Mindwipe Missive Modify Memory, Psionic ?Moment of Prescience, Psionic? Power Resistance Precognition Precognition, Defensive Precognition, Greater Precognition, Offensive Prescience, Offensive Prowess ?Psionic Blast? Psionic Lion's Charge Read Thoughts Remote Viewing Second Chance Steadfast Perception Suspend Life Synesthete Telekinetic Force Telekinetic Maneuver Telekinetic Thrust Telempathic Projection Thought Shield Touchsight Tower of Iron Will True Seeing, Psionic Ubiquitious Vision Vigor |
| Dyne12-10-05, 04:21 PM | Jedi Alignment: Lawful Good Hit Die: d8. Base Fort Ref Will Powers Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Known Maximum 1st +0 +0 +0 +0 3 1st 2nd +1 +0 +0 +0 5 1st 3rd +2 +1 +1 +1 7 2nd 4th +3 +1 +1 +1 9 2nd 5th +3 +1 +1 +1 11 3rd 6th +4 +2 +2 +2 13 3rd 7th +5 +2 +2 +2 15 4th 8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +2 17 4th 9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +3 19 5th 10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +3 21 5th 11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +3 22 6th 12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 24 6th 13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 25 7th 14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +4 27 7th 15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +5 28 8th 16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 30 8th 17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 31 9th 18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +6 33 9th 19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +6 34 9th 20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +6 36 9th |
| Dyne12-10-05, 04:23 PM | Just give them limited psionic power lists. Like a bard or other small list caster, except with (maybe) higher level powers. I would prefer to make them like a Psionic Warrior, but better at using powers, and some extra restrictions and drawbacks to balance it out. I never understood why Jedi would have full base attack. Their Force powers are supposed to make them good at fighting, without them, they would lose to a regular martial character (take the Yuuzhon Vong novels, for example). |
| Dyne12-10-05, 05:40 PM | Here are some different choices we have when mixing SW with D&D: 1. Keep both systems as they are or change them slightly 2. No Force points, or everybody has Force/Action Points 3. No Reputation, or everybody has Reputation 4. No Class Defense Bonus, or everybody has a Class Defense Bonus 5. Separate systems of VP/WP and HP, or all HP, or all VP/WP 6. Change nothing, change only SW, change only D&D, or change both SW and D&D 7. Armor remains different, or armor is made the same 8. Keep standard SWRPG Force classes, skills, and feats or use a new system for Force classes and powers There might be a few more. For many of these decisions, Unearthed Arcana has similar systems that be implemented into D&D. For the most part, the things that connect SWRPG and D&D are some of their similar mechanics, and Unearthed Arcana variant mechanics. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 05:47 PM | These would be my choices, but I would like to hear what the rest of you think: 1. Make slight changes. 2. Either one. The only reason to eliminate Force/Action Points would be because a lot of people wouldn't be familiar with them. But, the reason to keep them would be because, otherwise, some SW and D20 players would feel cheated if they were eliminated. 3. As #2. I would lean toward keeping Reputation 4. As #2. I would lean toward eliminating Class Defense Bonus. 5. All HP. The Vitality and Wounds system is weaker than Hit Points. 6. In-between "change only SW" and "change both SW and D&D." I think it would be better to focus on changing SWRPG material, since the dominant system here is D&D, but some very slight additions to the D&D system might be acceptable. 7. Armor should be made the same. SW armor is junk, which is why almost no one ever uses it. 8. I would vouch for keeping the standard Force rules, standard Force-using classes, etc. I don't think it's necessary to change it, and I want all changes to be slight, so much that a person who has a purely SWRPG character could convert it, using our revisions, and use it for the IFWG. |
| turalisj12-10-05, 05:50 PM | (unless you're one of those people that thinks Psionics is overpowered). I'm one of those who thinks psionics is underpowered. |
| Demonfey12-10-05, 05:54 PM | I would prefer to make them like a Psionic Warrior, but better at using powers, and some extra restrictions and drawbacks to balance it out. I never understood why Jedi would have full base attack. Their Force powers are supposed to make them good at fighting, without them, they would lose to a regular martial character (take the Yuuzhon Vong novels, for example). I normally forget about psychic warrior (normally don't have a book with psionics in it) |
| turalisj12-10-05, 05:56 PM | I would prefer to make them like a Psionic Warrior, but better at using powers, and some extra restrictions and drawbacks to balance it out. I never understood why Jedi would have full base attack. Their Force powers are supposed to make them good at fighting, without them, they would lose to a regular martial character (take the Yuuzhon Vong novels, for example). THe vong aren't regualr martial characters though. They are bred for fighting, like say and ogre would be. They would have around a +6 (atleast) strength modifier. |
| Dyne12-10-05, 05:58 PM | THe vong aren't regualr martial characters though. They are bred for fighting, like say and ogre would be. They would have around a +6 (atleast) strength modifier. Vong only have +2 Str and +2 Con in the SWRPG, but I'm not sure how accurate it would be. Some of the races seem a little off, IMO. |
| alaron12-12-05, 01:33 PM | I am currently working on a list of level adjustments for all the races in the UAA, and the Vong are cavered there, adi I think they will only have about a +4 level adjustment. Critique my list later, I should have it up next monday. It is currently finals week for me so I may be irregular. This may be biased but I Think the system I purposed forces the least number of changes. Here it is again: The new form of VP would be simple. The maximum value for a characters VP will be half of their HP. As a force user is damaged they lose 1VP for every 2 HP lost. A strict 2HP:1VP ratio is not needed, the VP can be spent with out affecting the HP. This means that VP are directly affected by HP, but VP do not directly affect HP. VP will return at the at the same rate as described in SWRPG core book Revised edition. This system keeps the fact that dammage results in reduction of points available for force skill uasge. The dnd critical system will work without modification. A player can no longer die through extensive use of the force, which is the case in SWRPG, because the character can not use wounds to fuel force skills below zero, and they foillow the same stabilization rules as DnD. [Here are some different choices we have when mixing SW with D&D: 1. Keep both systems as they are or change them slightly 2. No Force points, or everybody has Force/Action Points 3. No Reputation, or everybody has Reputation 4. No Class Defense Bonus, or everybody has a Class Defense Bonus 5. Separate systems of VP/WP and HP, or all HP, or all VP/WP 6. Change nothing, change only SW, change only D&D, or change both SW and D&D 7. Armor remains different, or armor is made the same 8. Keep standard SWRPG Force classes, skills, and feats or use a new system for Force classes and powers 1. Change them slightly 2. No Force points 3. Everybody has Reputation 4. Only force users gain Defence bonus, others from SWRPG gain the armow profeciencies of there DnD counter parts 5. HP/VP VP representing the usable poitns for force skills 6. Change only SW 7. Both Armors grant AC/Defence Bonus 8. Keep standard SWRPG Force classes, skills, and feats If any one needs some information from Hero's Guide, the Ultimate Alien Anthology, or Campaign guide, Jedi Source Book, Starships of the Galaxy, Dark Side Souce Book, and maybe the Arms and Equipment Guide, PM me with the requested INformation, I can not guarentee that I will respond quickly, but I will respond by next Monday for sure. |
| alaron12-12-05, 02:17 PM | Alaron The rate at which Vitality points regenerate is much faster than that of hit points. The VPs return 1point per level per hour, and even faster with Bacta, yet hit points return at the rate of 1 hit point per level per night of sleep. Dyne The same goes for D&D: 1 HP per level per day. However, this could possibly affect using Force skills. So, I was considering cutting the Vitality Point (or HP in this case) Cost in half or so, as though they were spending Wound Points (see the Control feat (Prolong Force ability), which allows a person to spend Wound Points at half cost of Vitality). True, but Force-users in general are significantly more powerful physically than their spellcaster counterparts in D&D. Compare a Jedi Guardian to a Hex Blade from Complete Warrior or the standard Paladin, which would be the Jedi's equivalent. I would bet that the Jedi would win, because he has superior combat abilities and superior "magical" abilities. But the only solution I know of would be to totally restructure the system, and I didn't want to take such drastic measures, at least not yet. Iwas refering to the DnD system with my remark about HP. The point there is that the Force users,under the currently purposed system, will need to wait an extreemly large amount of time inorder to have there extra natural abilites back to the same level that a mage or psion is at after a night of rest. I took your advice and ran a paladin and a Dark Jedi Guardian. Under your system the Paladin crushed the Guardian easily, Under my system it came down to a 5% difference in likely hood to hit. (I left the defense bonus for the Jedi) |
| Dyne12-12-05, 09:34 PM | @alaron: I'd like to test it out. Using my rules and revisions, let's pit my Dark Jedi Guardian up against your Paladin. 15th-level, material out of the core rulebooks only. Could you tell me how many credits a 15th-level character starts off with, from the Hero's Guide? |
| Dyne12-13-05, 09:30 PM | Ready when you are, alaron. I still need to know how many credits, though. My stats: Human Jedi Guardian 15 Str 18 +4 (16 base, +2 levels) Dex 14 +2 Con 16 +3 (15 base, +1 levels) Int 12 +1 Wis 10 +0 Cha 10 +0 Alignment: Chaotic Evil HP: 138 (15d10 +51) AC: 26 (+2 Dex, +8 armor, +6 lightsaber defense feats) Feats: Weapon Focus (lightsaber) (1st level - Human) Heroic Surge (1st level - Character) Control (1st level - Force Training) Power Attack (2nd level - Bonus) Improved Sunder (3rd level - Character) Alter (3rd level - Force Training) Sense (4th level - Force Training) Lightsaber Defense (6th level - Character) Knight Defense (7th level - Jedi Knight) Toughness (8th level - Bonus) Improved Critical (lightsaber) (9th level - Character) Armor Proficiency (medium) (12th level - Character) Toughness (12th level - Bonus) Master Defense (15th level - Character) Skills: Points: 108 Battlemind +21 (+18 ranks, +3 Con) Enhance Ability +21 (+18 ranks, +3 Con) Force Lightning +19 (+18 ranks, +1 Int) Heal Self +18 (+18 ranks) Illusion +18 (+18 ranks) Move Object +19 (+18 ranks, +1 Int) Equipment: Lightsaber (1,000 cr) (made himself) +3 Medium Battle Armor (48,000 cr) The rest in Thermal Detonators +21/+16/+11 melee, Lightsaber 5d8+6 - Crit 17-20/x2 +17/+12/+7 ranged, Thermal Detonator 8d6+6, 20 ft. burst, range 10 ft. |
| turalisj12-13-05, 09:45 PM | MAybe we can add Denrik in against you two. Jedi are of course based of knights, samurai, etc. :D |
| Dyne12-13-05, 09:57 PM | MAybe we can add Denrik in against you two. Jedi are of course based of knights, samurai, etc. :D Since alaron doesn't seem to be on right now, we could have a battle right now, between the two of us. I'm not sure how many thermal detonators I would have, though, since I'm not sure how many credits 15th-level characters start with (the info's from the Hero's Guide). But, since they only cost 2,000 cr, and I believe I would have around 100,000 cr left after my weapon and armor, there should be "enough" of them to last the battle. |
| turalisj12-13-05, 10:37 PM | ........ Okay, aslong as we use action points. :D |
| Demonfey12-13-05, 11:11 PM | ...how about a credit/gp conversion, 1 credit=1gp, for purposes of determining costs for fights like this. |
| Dyne12-13-05, 11:18 PM | ...how about a credit/gp conversion, 1 credit=1gp, for purposes of determining costs for fights like this. What do you mean, costs for fights? For conversions, I based it on the Profession skill. Approximately 200 credits equals 1 gp, if you compare the D&D version and the SWRPG version of the skill. @turalisj: I had Force Points and Action Points eliminated. Giving all D&D characters Action Points as well might be an option, though, but it's up to the GM's. In fact, maybe it wouldn't be so bad to bring up alternate game systems in meta. |
| Dyne12-14-05, 07:39 PM | I'm going to update the revisions. Some of the mechanics in SWRPG are variants in Unearthed Arcana, and they are also shared in D20 Modern. So, we're considering doing the following: -Defense Bonus stays, but doesn't stack with armor. D&D characters will receive their own Defense Bonus, depending on their level. -Reputation Bonus stays. D&D characters will have a Reputation Bonus, depending on their level. -Force/Action Points stay. All characters will start with the same number of Force/Action Points, probably gaining points each time they level up, and possibly being awarded points from doing certain things. We will have to come up with a table to determine how many d6's to roll when spending a Force/Action Point, and Force-Sensitive characters will probably be able to roll more d6's. Light and Dark Side might not be distinguished when determining how many d6's to roll: all Force-Sensitive characters roll the same number. D&D and D20 characters will probably be able to take the Force-Sensitive feat, which will apply to their Action Points. |