Galactic Empire: All SW Welcome [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTimePost
Dyne

12-08-05, 09:55 PM
Moff Taldur stared at the view screen, waiting for the message to load. It was a mission directly from the Emperor himself, and he was curious as to what it contained. Moff Taldur always was very adventurous for an Imperial Officer, and traveling to strange worlds on top-secret missions was the spice of his life.

The image of Emperor Palpatine appeared on the view screen, and he began speaking. "This is a top secret message, from my mouth to your ears. I expect you to remove it from your database when you are through with its contents, to prevent the information herein from falling into unwelcome hands.

"We have developed technology that allows us to use wormholes to travel to different galaxies, alternate realities that may be very different from our own. I am trusting you to put this technology to good use. I have arranged for you to take a detachment through the wormhole, to scout out the new area, and if possible, find a way to profit the Empire with what you find. If you come across civilization of any kind, you are to subjugate to the will of the Empire.

"The Rebel Alliance may try to stop you in this mission. It will not be surprising for their intelligence to come across this information and attempt to foil your task. If such occurs, I am certain you are familiar with our policy to deal with the Rebel scum."

The purpose of this guild is to discuss material from the Star Wars Roleplaying Game, especially that pertaining to the Galactic Empire, as well as to develop mechanics to allow Star Wars material to fit into a D&D-oriented campaign. Despite the name of the guild, characters that are not affiliated with the Empire (but are still SW characters) are free to join, until guilds appropriate for their factions are created.

Members
Dyne (Moff)
Dyne

12-08-05, 10:00 PM
Reserved
Dyne

12-08-05, 10:05 PM
"Fixes" to make the Star Wars rules work in a D&D-oriented campaign
Hit Points: Vitality Points become HP. Wound Points are eliminated.
Defense Bonus: The class defense bonus stays, but it does not stack with armor. Armor grants a bonus to Defense (AC), instead of Damage Reduction.*
Armor: See above. Each class also receives a free Armor Proficiency feat at 1st-level.
Money: Kept separate. Credits are different from gold pieces.
Reputation: Reputation stays. D&D characters will probably receive their own Reputation bonus. Characters can gather followers by taking the Leadership feat, as per the D&D rules.
Force Points: Force Points will be kept, and will be the same thing as Action Points. All characters, including D&D, D20, and SWRPG, will start with the same number of Force/Action Points, and will gain more as they increase in level. Force-using classes shall remain unchanged, still using their Force Skills as normal.
Dark Side Points: Dark Side points are to be eliminated. Instead, characters will use the D&D alignment system.
Force Skills: Remain mostly unchanged. Since there is no longer Vitality, they will drain HP. The HP Cost of Force skills and feats is one-half its VP Cost. If a character doesn't have enough hit poitns, she can't draw on the Force until her hit points are restored. A character could her HP down to 1 with Force powers.
Critical Hits: Deal x2 damage, since WP are eliminated.
Knocked Out: This combat rule is eliminated.
Stablizing: As D&D rules. When reduced to -1 HP or lower, there is a 10% each round that the character will stabilize. Otherwise, he loses another HP, and dies if reaching -10 HP.
Attack an Object: As Sunder in D&D rules.
Bull Rush: As Bull Rush in D&D rules.

I will make updates to this post on a regular basis, including adaptations to material that depends SWRPG mechanics.

For reference:
D&D v3.5 SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35)
Official rules of the D&D game system. Where the D&D rules and the SW rules conflict, D&D takes priority.

* In the previous version, armor gave a Defense (AC) bonus. If someone has the original rulebook and can give me the numbers, we'll use that. Otherwise, armor grants an AC bonus equal to its DR.
Dyne

12-08-05, 10:09 PM
Let the posting begin. I am planning on having a character for this guild, Moff Taldur, as mentioned above. Being a Noble/Officer/Imperial Moff, he will have his own personal Star Destroyer, not to mention some support from the Empire (in the form of Resource Access, Requisition Supplies, and Leadership). I plan on getting the Hero's Guide soon, and I'm working on some goodies for this guild, including a revised Jedi class or two.
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:04 PM
I had created some Star Wars Epic Level Rules for characters above 20th-level, but I can't find the thread where I posted all of it, it was such a long time ago. I'll see if I can post it up again.
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:10 PM
Epic Levels work the same way in the Star Wars Roleplaying Game as they do in D&D. To increase a class beyond 20th-level, use the following guideline. Repeat the 10 levels beyond 30th-level, so (for example) a character would gain the same abilities at 35th-level as he would at 25th-level.

Epic Fringer
Level Special
21 Bonus Class Skill
22 Barter +5
23 Survival +2
24 Bonus Class Skill
25 Bonus Feat
26 --
27 --
28 Bonus Class Skill
29 Survival +2
30 Bonus Feat
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:12 PM
Epic Noble
Level Special
21 Favor +1
22 --
23 Bonus Feat
24 Favor +1
25 Coordinate +1
26 --
27 Bonus Feat
28 Favor +1
29 Coordinate +1
30 Bonus Feat
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:13 PM
Epic Scoundrel
Level Special
21 Precise Attack +1
22 --
23 Lucky (+1/day)
24 Skill Emphasis
25 Bonus Feat
26 Precise Attack +1
27 Skill Emphasis
28 Lucky (+1/day)
29 Bonus Feat
30 Skill Emphasis
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:15 PM
Epic Scout
Level Special
21 Bonus Feat
22 --
23 Heart +1
24 --
25 Skill Mastery
26 Bonus Feat
27 --
28 Heart +1
29 --
30 Skill Mastery
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:16 PM
Epic Soldier
Level Special
21 --
22 Bonus Feat
23 --
24 Bonus Feat
25 --
26 Bonus Feat
27 --
28 Bonus Feat
29 --
30 Bonus Feat
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:17 PM
Epic Tech Specialist
Level Special
21 --
22 Tech Specialty
23 --
24 Expert
25 Tech Specialty
26 --
27 Instant Mastery
28 Tech Specialty
29 --
30 Expert
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:19 PM
Epic Force Adept
Level Special
21 Force Weapon +1d8
22 Force Talisman +2
23 Force Secret
24 Skill Emphasis
25 Bonus Feat
26 Force Weapon +1d8
27 Force Talisman +2
28 Force Secret
29 Skill Emphasis
30 Bonus Feat
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:22 PM
Epic Jedi Consular
Level Special
21 --
22 Deflect (defense)
23 Bonus Feat
24 Deflect (attack -1)
25 Skill Emphasis
26 Increase Lightsaber Damage
27 Deflect (defense)
28 Bonus Feat
29 Skill Emphasis
30 Increase Lightsaber Damage
Dyne

12-08-05, 11:24 PM
Epic Jedi Guardian
Level Special
21 --
22 Deflect (defense)
23 Increase Lightsaber Damage
24 Bonus Feat
25 Deflect (defense)
26 Increase Lightsaber Damage
27 --
28 Deflect (defense)
29 Increase Lightsaber Damage
30 Bonus Feat
jagggar

12-09-05, 12:09 AM
"Fixes" to make the Star Wars rules work in a D&D-oriented campaign
Hit Points: Vitality Points become HP. Wound Points are eliminated.
Defense Bonus: The class defense bonus is eliminated. Instead, armor grants a bonus to Defense (AC).*
Money: Kept separate. Credits are different from gold pieces.
Reputation: Reputation is eliminated. Characters can gather followers by taking the Leadership feat, as per the D&D rules.
Force Points: Eliminated. Force-using classes shall remain unchanged, still using their Force Skills as normal.
Dark Side Points: Dark Side points are to be eliminated. Instead, characters will use the D&D alignment system.

I will make updates to this post on a regular basis, including adaptations to material that depends SWRPG mechanics. Since I like messing around with stuff. . .

Vitality -> HP
So are threat ranges on weapons turned into critical multipliers?

Defense Bonus
Do the SW classes get armor profiency feats as bonus feats or must they be taken?
What's the astrik mean?

All I can think of at the moment.
Dyne

12-09-05, 12:30 AM
Since I like messing around with stuff. . .

Vitality -> HP
So are threat ranges on weapons turned into critical multipliers?

Defense Bonus
Do the SW classes get armor profiency feats as bonus feats or must they be taken?
What's the astrik mean?

All I can think of at the moment.

Threat Ranges remain the same. Instead of dealing damage to Wound Points, a critical hit does x2 damage.

Actually, the Soldier is the only class that starts off with any Armor Proficiency. Armor is very crappy in SWRPG, and it's not used much. Since the classes would be without a Defense Bonus, characters would depend more on armor. So, I would suggest giving a free Armor Prof. feat to every class, so they stand a chance against the D&D characters.

I forgot to type in the asterisk (*). In the previous version, armor gave a Defense (AC) bonus. If someone has the original rulebook and can give me the numbers, we'll use that. Otherwise, armor grants an AC bonus equal to its DR:

Blast helmet, vest (+2 AC)
Combat jumpsuit (+3 AC)
Padded flight suit (+2 AC)
Armor flight suit (+4 AC)
Battle armor, padded (+4 AC)
Battle armor, medium (+5 AC)
Armored spacesuit (+6 AC)
Battle armor, heavy (+7 AC)
Corellian powersuit (+4 AC)
Stormtrooper armor (+5 AC)
Battleframe (+3 AC)
Demonfey

12-09-05, 12:34 AM
I've got a good one: what would a lightsaber be when attempted to be magically made?
Dyne

12-09-05, 12:36 AM
I've got a good one: what would a lightsaber be when attempted to be magically made?

The closest thing would be a Brilliant Energy Longsword. However, there could probably be made a Lightsaber magical enhancement (+5 cost) which allowed the weapon to damage objects, also ignoring their hardness.
Tenzhi

12-09-05, 02:49 AM
It would have to be able to harm undead and constructs as well. Basically it would be a weapon that you make touch attacks with, that ignores hardness when used to attack objects, and which inflicts sunder damage on any non-lightsabre weapon which attempts to sunder it.
turalisj

12-09-05, 07:04 AM
The closest thing would be a Brilliant Energy Longsword. However, there could probably be made a Lightsaber magical enhancement (+5 cost) which allowed the weapon to damage objects, also ignoring their hardness.
actualy, a +1 hiding brilliant energy adamantine longsword.
thasis

12-09-05, 02:37 PM
This is cool. When I get the net back I'm totally working with this.
Dyne

12-09-05, 05:22 PM
It would have to be able to harm undead and constructs as well. Basically it would be a weapon that you make touch attacks with, that ignores hardness when used to attack objects, and which inflicts sunder damage on any non-lightsabre weapon which attempts to sunder it.

Yeah, that's what I meant, since Brilliant Energy can't do damage to nonliving material.

I addressed a few revisions to the SWRPG mechanics that would bring it inline with D&D rules. However, a few of the revisions would make certain SWRPG rules outdated, such as a few feats, PrC abilities, etc. So, I post up ideas to revise this material to be compatible with the proposed revised mechanics. Additionally, there is some material that is in both the SWRPG and D&D rulesets, but use slightly different mechanics. Where the rulesets conflict, the D&D rules shall receive precedence, but I will mention the ones that I come across to remind people.
turalisj

12-09-05, 05:32 PM
Why not a mordikanen's sword (sp?). Just have a crystal focus that contains the spell, and a hilt, then bam, instant lightsaber.
Dyne

12-09-05, 06:44 PM
Why not a mordikanen's sword (sp?). Just have a crystal focus that contains the spell, and a hilt, then bam, instant lightsaber.

Only problem is it's one time use item. And no light effects! Of course, we can now use the SWRPG rules to get a lightsaber, or even become a Jedi/Sith.

Currently, I'm rather interested in numbers. I really need to get my hands on the Hero's Guide, it has a great deal of the information I'm looking for. One of the big problems we could encounter is the issue of wealth. How much would this guild start out with? Could we estimate the equivalent value of gold pieces and credits?

I know that the Hero's Guide has a chart for starting wealth of characters above 1st-level. Conceivably, we could just multiply the wealth of a 15th-level character by 5 (guilds start off with 5 times as much as a 15th-level D&D character).
Dyne

12-09-05, 10:04 PM
I don't know what to do here:
What happens for particular things that require a Force Point, such as constructing a lightsaber? I originally had Force Points eliminated to make it more like D&D. Of course, there could be the alternative of giving all the other characters Force Points as well (or Action Points, from Eberron and D20 Modern).
alaron

12-10-05, 01:38 PM
Tough I think that the lightsaber is an issue that needs to be addressed, as well as the method of handling force points, I think that it is more imperative to look at the use of force skills.

1) with the system that has been purposed one could die through use of the force. Consider the table for move object.
as weight increases by a factor of ten the DC increases by 5 and the vitality point cost doubles, that means that if a character wanted to lift a 500 million kg item it would cost them 256 hit points, enough to kill most force users if they are completely healthy.

2) The rate at which Vitality points regenerate is much faster than that of hit points. The VPs return 1point per level per hour, and even faster with Bacta, yet hit points return at the rate of 1 hit point per level per night of sleep.

3) The abilities seem to only get cut and during some simulations I sis I was and myself came to the conclusion that with out the physical bonuses granted by the Jedi guardians, the forcer user was soundly defeated.

4) Force using classes lose VP whether they succeed or not, with the exception being force heal. Even though one can make that same argument for a mage, the mage does not suffer from an ever present 5% chance of loss of a spell slot. also most of the mages spells do not require a check or attack roll.

5) Spells will return after one nights rest, and the power with which the force is used will take much longer for a full recovery if this system is used.

To correct these problem areas I would like to purpose a change in the system, either using a new form of VP, or leave the WP and VP system intact and instead alter the DnD system to fit.


The new form of VP would be simple.
The maximum value for a characters VP will be half of their HP.
As a force user is damaged they lose 1VP for every 2 HP lost.
A strict 2HP:1VP ratio is not needed, the VP can be spent with out affecting the HP. This means that VP are directly affected by HP, but VP do not directly affect HP.
VP will return at the at the same rate as described in SWRPG core book Revised edition.

As an example:
If a character has 100 HP and 45 VP (you are not at maximum VP because some force skills have been used )
This character damaged for 90 HP and therefore 45 VP were taken away.
After that attack you were left with 10 HP but 0 VP.
Assuming the thing that attacked you does not kill you . You are now able to regain up to 5 VP until you gain some more HP.
IF at that point you were to be healed, either through the force, mundane means, or magic, you would gain the amount of HP determined by the spell or ability, along with one half that value in Vitality Points.
Dyne

12-10-05, 02:16 PM
Tough I think that the lightsaber is an issue that needs to be addressed, as well as the method of handling force points, I think that it is more imperative to look at the use of force skills.

1) with the system that has been purposed one could die through use of the force. Consider the table for move object.
as weight increases by a factor of ten the DC increases by 5 and the vitality point cost doubles, that means that if a character wanted to lift a 500 million kg item it would cost them 256 hit points, enough to kill most force users if they are completely healthy.

The same exact thing could happen if we were still using VP and WP, except there is that certain restriction:
"If a character doesn't have enough vitality points, she can't draw on the Force until her vitality is restored."
In this case, substitute "vitality points" with "hit points." So, a character could spend his hit points for Force skill to the point to reduce his HP to 0, but not below. If this needs to be added to my revisions, I will put it in.

2) The rate at which Vitality points regenerate is much faster than that of hit points. The VPs return 1point per level per hour, and even faster with Bacta, yet hit points return at the rate of 1 hit point per level per night of sleep.

The same goes for D&D: 1 HP per level per day. However, this could possibly affect using Force skills. So, I was considering cutting the Vitality Point (or HP in this case) Cost in half or so, as though they were spending Wound Points (see the Control feat (Prolong Force ability), which allows a person to spend Wound Points at half cost of Vitality).

I could edit this into the revisions.

3) The abilities seem to only get cut and during some simulations I sis I was and myself came to the conclusion that with out the physical bonuses granted by the Jedi guardians, the forcer user was soundly defeated.

In the revisions, yes, SW stuff seems to just get "cut." Really, though, I tried more to substitute the SW stuff with the D&D equivalent. In the revisions, SW characters might suffer from not having Class Defense, Reputation, and all that other stuff, but armor is much more useful, they are much less vulnerable to death (Hit Points instead of VP and WP), and I was going to add an Armor Prof. feat to each class, to help them out just a little more.

Overall, it wouldn't surprise me if they were a bit weaker because the technology and Force powers of SWRPG are significantly weaker than the magic of D&D. So, I was planning on creating a number of additional items/powers that would put them on par.

4) Force using classes lose VP whether they succeed or not, with the exception being force heal. Even though one can make that same argument for a mage, the mage does not suffer from an ever present 5% chance of loss of a spell slot. also most of the mages spells do not require a check or attack roll.

I didn't write the rules, and I don't really agree with how they handled Force powers. If you want, I could create a generic Jedi class, based on D&D's Psionic rules. I didn't really see a need to, though, and I thought people would be frustrated if they had a really awesome Jedi character, and they come here and have to create a completely different one, learn completely different rules to do it.

5) Spells will return after one nights rest, and the power with which the force is used will take much longer for a full recovery if this system is used.

True, but Force-users in general are significantly more powerful physically than their spellcaster counterparts in D&D. Compare a Jedi Guardian to a Hex Blade from Complete Warrior or the standard Paladin, which would be the Jedi's equivalent. I would bet that the Jedi would win, because he has superior combat abilities and superior "magical" abilities. But the only solution I know of would be to totally restructure the system, and I didn't want to take such drastic measures, at least not yet.

To correct these problem areas I would like to purpose a change in the system, either using a new form of VP, or leave the WP and VP system intact and instead alter the DnD system to fit.

Altering the D&D system is almost certainly not an option. The sad truth is that this is a D&D game, this IFWG, not a SW one. While it might be more convenient for us if the D&D rules were altered in some places, were are hugely outnumbered by D&D players.

The new form of VP would be simple.
The maximum value for a characters VP will be half of their HP.
As a force user is damaged they lose 1VP for every 2 HP lost.
A strict 2HP:1VP ratio is not needed, the VP can be spent with out affecting the HP. This means that VP are directly affected by HP, but VP do not directly affect HP.
VP will return at the at the same rate as described in SWRPG core book Revised edition.

As an example:
If a character has 100 HP and 45 VP (you are not at maximum VP because some force skills have been used )
This character damaged for 90 HP and therefore 45 VP were taken away.
After that attack you were left with 10 HP but 0 VP.
Assuming the thing that attacked you does not kill you . You are now able to regain up to 5 VP until you gain some more HP.
IF at that point you were to be healed, either through the force, mundane means, or magic, you would gain the amount of HP determined by the spell or ability, along with one half that value in Vitality Points.

Not a bad system, but I'm not sure that it would be compatible with D&D. I have two ideas that could fix this problem:
-Cut the VP/HP cost in half
-Redo the Jedi class

There is much material in the Psionic rules that is very similar to the Force, and I've already had ideas for a new Jedi class, but I would like to leave both systems, SWRPG and D&D, as intact as possible.
Dyne

12-10-05, 02:42 PM
A comparison of the SWRPG D&D and systems. Overall, I believe both systems are relatively equal, but incompatible. One of the purposes of this guild is to attempt to make each system compatible, while retaining the equality in power.

SWRPG D&D
Species = Races
Classes = Classes
Armor < Armor
VP/WP < HP
Force Powers < Magic
Equipment < Magic Items
Defense Bonus
Reputation
Force Points
Vehicles and Starships

As you can see, the SWRPG system has 4 deficiencies to the D&D system. To make up for it, they have 4 extra mechanics that bump it up to equal the D&D system.

Now, here's what my proposed changes would do to it:

SWRPG D&D
Species = Races
Classes = Classes
Armor = Armor
VP/WP = HP
Force Powers < Magic
Equipment = Magic Items
Vehicles and Starships

So, by getting rid of the deficiencies in Armor, VP/WP, and Equipment, the Class Defense, Reputation, and Force Points could hypothetically be removed and still keep the two systems balanced, but more compatible.

The way in which to make Equipment equal to Magic Items would be to create a large number of SW items that would be equivalent to D&D items (gauntlets of strength, bracers of armor (generate a shield)). However, this might take a great deal of time, and I don't know what items already exist in the Arms and Equipment Guide, the Hero's Guide, or other supplements.

Alternatively, the Force-using classes could be over-hauled, making their Force powers equal to D&D spellcasting. Either way, though, the two systems should remain equal in power to one another.
Masters of the House

12-10-05, 02:42 PM
I've got a bad idea: What if we changed as little as possible?
It might be a little confusing at first, but it would leave both systems intact for the most part.
Dyne

12-10-05, 02:49 PM
I've got a bad idea: What if we changed as little as possible?
It might be a little confusing at first, but it would leave both systems intact for the most part.

Who are you, you strange, three-faced being?! ;)

That's always an option. I posted up my revision ideas to better keep track of them, and for just in case we do decide that a revision is necessary.
turalisj

12-10-05, 02:57 PM
NO! force does not equal magic. If anything, it would equal psionics.
Zombomaniac

12-10-05, 03:01 PM
Ya force is not magic. It is more like Psionic's long lost Cousin.

Also I think as little as possible should be changed, but we must change everything we need to changed so that SWRPG will mesh with the DnD rules.
Dyne

12-10-05, 03:01 PM
NO! force does not equal magic. If anything, it would equal psionics.

:confused: I didn't say Force equalled magic. I compared Force to magic because they are used for exactly the same thing, but the Force powers are less powerful than spells.

Of course, the Force could be compared to Psionics, but Psionics equal Magic (unless you're one of those people that thinks Psionics is overpowered).

If I were to create a Jedi character using D&D rules, I would make him a Psion. In fact, I'm considering creating a totally new system for the SWRPG, with a Jedi class created based on the Psionics rules.
Demonfey

12-10-05, 03:15 PM
Force=incarnum/warlock combo (some spell likes, some boosts to abilities, some altering of bodies). Especially Sith powers.
jagggar

12-10-05, 03:24 PM
They need to invent an easier way to switch accounts. . .

I mean something along the lines of a D&D character fighting a SW character with a pick would threaten a critical (direct damage to WP) on 18-20.

The SW characters don't need to mesh D&D characters. SW characters need to be able to mesh with D&D combat.
Dyne

12-10-05, 03:24 PM
Force=incarnum/warlock combo (some spell likes, some boosts to abilities, some altering of bodies). Especially Sith powers.

There are Psionic powers that sound exactly like Force powers that were used in the movies. Is anyone else reminded of Darth Vader when they read Crisis of Breath or Crisis of Life? I created a whole list of Psionic powers that could work as Force powers, and the list was like 5 pages long.
Dyne

12-10-05, 03:26 PM
They need to invent an easier way to switch accounts. . .

I mean something along the lines of a D&D character fighting a SW character with a pick would threaten a critical (direct damage to WP) on 18-20.

The SW characters don't need to mesh D&D characters. SW characters need to be able to mesh with D&D combat.

Yes. But with my revisions, SW characters wouldn't have WP, so a critical would just be a regular critical (extra damage).
jagggar

12-10-05, 03:45 PM
Well if we do the bare minimum, then force powers don't particularly have to be reworked. (Creating "D&D versions" of the classes could still be a goal of the guild, but would not be required before people could use SW characters.)
Demonfey

12-10-05, 03:55 PM
Just give them limited psionic power lists. Like a bard or other small list caster, except with (maybe) higher level powers.
Dyne

12-10-05, 04:03 PM
I dug up my old notes. Keep in mind that I haven't look at these for awhile, so some of it might be slightly off.

Jedi/Psionic Powers
Animal Affinity
Apopsi
?Astral Seed?
Attraction
Aura Alteration (?Dark Side?)
Aura Sight
Aversion
Bestow Power
Body Adjustment (Light Side)
Body Purification
Brain Lock (Dark Side)
Burst
Call to Mind
Catapsi
Catfall
Charm
Clairtangent Hand
Clairvoyant Hand
Clairvoyant Sense
Cloud Mind
Cloud Mind, Mass
Conceal Thoughts
Concussion Blast
Control Body
Correspond
Crisis of Breath (Dark Side)
Crisis of Life (Dark Side)
Danger Sense
Deceleration (Dark Side)
Decerebrate (Dark Side)
Demoralize (Dark Side)
Destiny Dissonance (?Dark Side?)
Detect Hostile Intent
Detect Psionics (called Detect Force)
Detect Remote Viewing
Disable (?Dark Side?)
Dispel Psionics (called Dispel Force)
Dispelling Buffer
Distract
Divination
Dominate, Psionic
Ego Whip (?Dark Side?)
Empathy
Empty Mind
Energy Bolt (electricity only) (Dark Side)
Energy Cone (electricity only) (Dark Side)
Energy Conversion
Energy Push (electricity only) (Dark Side)
Energy Ray (electricity only) (Dark Side)
Energy Stun (electricity only) (Dark Side)
Escape Detection
Evade Burst
False Sensory Input
Far Hand
Fate Link
Fate of One
Feat Leech (?Dark Side?)
Hustle
Hypercognition
Inflict Pain (Dark Side)
Levitate, Psionic
Mental Disruption
Metafaculty
Mind Probe
Mindwipe
Missive
Modify Memory, Psionic
?Moment of Prescience, Psionic?
Power Resistance
Precognition
Precognition, Defensive
Precognition, Greater
Precognition, Offensive
Prescience, Offensive
Prowess
?Psionic Blast?
Psionic Lion's Charge
Read Thoughts
Remote Viewing
Second Chance
Steadfast Perception
Suspend Life
Synesthete
Telekinetic Force
Telekinetic Maneuver
Telekinetic Thrust
Telempathic Projection
Thought Shield
Touchsight
Tower of Iron Will
True Seeing, Psionic
Ubiquitious Vision
Vigor
Dyne

12-10-05, 04:21 PM
Jedi
Alignment: Lawful Good
Hit Die: d8.

Base Fort Ref Will Powers
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Known Maximum
1st +0 +0 +0 +0 3 1st
2nd +1 +0 +0 +0 5 1st
3rd +2 +1 +1 +1 7 2nd
4th +3 +1 +1 +1 9 2nd
5th +3 +1 +1 +1 11 3rd
6th +4 +2 +2 +2 13 3rd
7th +5 +2 +2 +2 15 4th
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +2 17 4th
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +3 19 5th
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +3 21 5th
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +3 22 6th
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 24 6th
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +4 25 7th
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +4 27 7th
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +5 28 8th
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 30 8th
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +5 31 9th
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +6 33 9th
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +6 34 9th
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +6 36 9th
Dyne

12-10-05, 04:23 PM
Just give them limited psionic power lists. Like a bard or other small list caster, except with (maybe) higher level powers.

I would prefer to make them like a Psionic Warrior, but better at using powers, and some extra restrictions and drawbacks to balance it out.

I never understood why Jedi would have full base attack. Their Force powers are supposed to make them good at fighting, without them, they would lose to a regular martial character (take the Yuuzhon Vong novels, for example).
Dyne

12-10-05, 05:40 PM
Here are some different choices we have when mixing SW with D&D:

1. Keep both systems as they are or change them slightly
2. No Force points, or everybody has Force/Action Points
3. No Reputation, or everybody has Reputation
4. No Class Defense Bonus, or everybody has a Class Defense Bonus
5. Separate systems of VP/WP and HP, or all HP, or all VP/WP
6. Change nothing, change only SW, change only D&D, or change both SW and D&D
7. Armor remains different, or armor is made the same
8. Keep standard SWRPG Force classes, skills, and feats or use a new system for Force classes and powers

There might be a few more. For many of these decisions, Unearthed Arcana has similar systems that be implemented into D&D. For the most part, the things that connect SWRPG and D&D are some of their similar mechanics, and Unearthed Arcana variant mechanics.
Dyne

12-10-05, 05:47 PM
These would be my choices, but I would like to hear what the rest of you think:

1. Make slight changes.
2. Either one. The only reason to eliminate Force/Action Points would be because a lot of people wouldn't be familiar with them. But, the reason to keep them would be because, otherwise, some SW and D20 players would feel cheated if they were eliminated.
3. As #2. I would lean toward keeping Reputation
4. As #2. I would lean toward eliminating Class Defense Bonus.
5. All HP. The Vitality and Wounds system is weaker than Hit Points.
6. In-between "change only SW" and "change both SW and D&D." I think it would be better to focus on changing SWRPG material, since the dominant system here is D&D, but some very slight additions to the D&D system might be acceptable.
7. Armor should be made the same. SW armor is junk, which is why almost no one ever uses it.
8. I would vouch for keeping the standard Force rules, standard Force-using classes, etc. I don't think it's necessary to change it, and I want all changes to be slight, so much that a person who has a purely SWRPG character could convert it, using our revisions, and use it for the IFWG.
turalisj

12-10-05, 05:50 PM
(unless you're one of those people that thinks Psionics is overpowered).
I'm one of those who thinks psionics is underpowered.
Demonfey

12-10-05, 05:54 PM
I would prefer to make them like a Psionic Warrior, but better at using powers, and some extra restrictions and drawbacks to balance it out.

I never understood why Jedi would have full base attack. Their Force powers are supposed to make them good at fighting, without them, they would lose to a regular martial character (take the Yuuzhon Vong novels, for example).
I normally forget about psychic warrior (normally don't have a book with psionics in it)
turalisj

12-10-05, 05:56 PM
I would prefer to make them like a Psionic Warrior, but better at using powers, and some extra restrictions and drawbacks to balance it out.

I never understood why Jedi would have full base attack. Their Force powers are supposed to make them good at fighting, without them, they would lose to a regular martial character (take the Yuuzhon Vong novels, for example).

THe vong aren't regualr martial characters though. They are bred for fighting, like say and ogre would be. They would have around a +6 (atleast) strength modifier.
Dyne

12-10-05, 05:58 PM
THe vong aren't regualr martial characters though. They are bred for fighting, like say and ogre would be. They would have around a +6 (atleast) strength modifier.

Vong only have +2 Str and +2 Con in the SWRPG, but I'm not sure how accurate it would be. Some of the races seem a little off, IMO.
alaron

12-12-05, 01:33 PM
I am currently working on a list of level adjustments for all the races in the UAA, and the Vong are cavered there, adi I think they will only have about a +4 level adjustment. Critique my list later, I should have it up next monday. It is currently finals week for me so I may be irregular.

This may be biased but I Think the system I purposed forces the least number of changes.
Here it is again:
The new form of VP would be simple.
The maximum value for a characters VP will be half of their HP.
As a force user is damaged they lose 1VP for every 2 HP lost.
A strict 2HP:1VP ratio is not needed, the VP can be spent with out affecting the HP. This means that VP are directly affected by HP, but VP do not directly affect HP.
VP will return at the at the same rate as described in SWRPG core book Revised edition.


This system keeps the fact that dammage results in reduction of points available for force skill uasge.
The dnd critical system will work without modification.
A player can no longer die through extensive use of the force, which is the case in SWRPG, because the character can not use wounds to fuel force skills below zero, and they foillow the same stabilization rules as DnD.


[Here are some different choices we have when mixing SW with D&D:

1. Keep both systems as they are or change them slightly
2. No Force points, or everybody has Force/Action Points
3. No Reputation, or everybody has Reputation
4. No Class Defense Bonus, or everybody has a Class Defense Bonus
5. Separate systems of VP/WP and HP, or all HP, or all VP/WP
6. Change nothing, change only SW, change only D&D, or change both SW and D&D
7. Armor remains different, or armor is made the same
8. Keep standard SWRPG Force classes, skills, and feats or use a new system for Force classes and powers


1. Change them slightly
2. No Force points
3. Everybody has Reputation
4. Only force users gain Defence bonus, others from SWRPG gain the armow profeciencies of there DnD counter parts
5. HP/VP VP representing the usable poitns for force skills
6. Change only SW
7. Both Armors grant AC/Defence Bonus
8. Keep standard SWRPG Force classes, skills, and feats

If any one needs some information from Hero's Guide, the Ultimate Alien Anthology, or Campaign guide, Jedi Source Book, Starships of the Galaxy, Dark Side Souce Book, and maybe the Arms and Equipment Guide, PM me with the requested INformation, I can not guarentee that I will respond quickly, but I will respond by next Monday for sure.
alaron

12-12-05, 02:17 PM
Alaron
The rate at which Vitality points regenerate is much faster than that of hit points. The VPs return 1point per level per hour, and even faster with Bacta, yet hit points return at the rate of 1 hit point per level per night of sleep.
Dyne
The same goes for D&D: 1 HP per level per day. However, this could possibly affect using Force skills. So, I was considering cutting the Vitality Point (or HP in this case) Cost in half or so, as though they were spending Wound Points (see the Control feat (Prolong Force ability), which allows a person to spend Wound Points at half cost of Vitality).

True, but Force-users in general are significantly more powerful physically than their spellcaster counterparts in D&D. Compare a Jedi Guardian to a Hex Blade from Complete Warrior or the standard Paladin, which would be the Jedi's equivalent. I would bet that the Jedi would win, because he has superior combat abilities and superior "magical" abilities. But the only solution I know of would be to totally restructure the system, and I didn't want to take such drastic measures, at least not yet.



Iwas refering to the DnD system with my remark about HP. The point there is that the Force users,under the currently purposed system, will need to wait an extreemly large amount of time inorder to have there extra natural abilites back to the same level that a mage or psion is at after a night of rest.

I took your advice and ran a paladin and a Dark Jedi Guardian.

Under your system the Paladin crushed the Guardian easily,
Under my system it came down to a 5% difference in likely hood to hit.
(I left the defense bonus for the Jedi)
Dyne

12-12-05, 09:34 PM
@alaron: I'd like to test it out. Using my rules and revisions, let's pit my Dark Jedi Guardian up against your Paladin. 15th-level, material out of the core rulebooks only.

Could you tell me how many credits a 15th-level character starts off with, from the Hero's Guide?
Dyne

12-13-05, 09:30 PM
Ready when you are, alaron. I still need to know how many credits, though.

My stats:
Human Jedi Guardian 15
Str 18 +4 (16 base, +2 levels)
Dex 14 +2
Con 16 +3 (15 base, +1 levels)
Int 12 +1
Wis 10 +0
Cha 10 +0

Alignment: Chaotic Evil

HP: 138 (15d10 +51)
AC: 26 (+2 Dex, +8 armor, +6 lightsaber defense feats)

Feats:
Weapon Focus (lightsaber) (1st level - Human)
Heroic Surge (1st level - Character)
Control (1st level - Force Training)
Power Attack (2nd level - Bonus)
Improved Sunder (3rd level - Character)
Alter (3rd level - Force Training)
Sense (4th level - Force Training)
Lightsaber Defense (6th level - Character)
Knight Defense (7th level - Jedi Knight)
Toughness (8th level - Bonus)
Improved Critical (lightsaber) (9th level - Character)
Armor Proficiency (medium) (12th level - Character)
Toughness (12th level - Bonus)
Master Defense (15th level - Character)

Skills:
Points: 108
Battlemind +21 (+18 ranks, +3 Con)
Enhance Ability +21 (+18 ranks, +3 Con)
Force Lightning +19 (+18 ranks, +1 Int)
Heal Self +18 (+18 ranks)
Illusion +18 (+18 ranks)
Move Object +19 (+18 ranks, +1 Int)

Equipment:
Lightsaber (1,000 cr) (made himself)
+3 Medium Battle Armor (48,000 cr)
The rest in Thermal Detonators

+21/+16/+11 melee, Lightsaber 5d8+6 - Crit 17-20/x2
+17/+12/+7 ranged, Thermal Detonator 8d6+6, 20 ft. burst, range 10 ft.
turalisj

12-13-05, 09:45 PM
MAybe we can add Denrik in against you two. Jedi are of course based of knights, samurai, etc. :D
Dyne

12-13-05, 09:57 PM
MAybe we can add Denrik in against you two. Jedi are of course based of knights, samurai, etc. :D

Since alaron doesn't seem to be on right now, we could have a battle right now, between the two of us. I'm not sure how many thermal detonators I would have, though, since I'm not sure how many credits 15th-level characters start with (the info's from the Hero's Guide). But, since they only cost 2,000 cr, and I believe I would have around 100,000 cr left after my weapon and armor, there should be "enough" of them to last the battle.
turalisj

12-13-05, 10:37 PM
........ Okay, aslong as we use action points. :D
Demonfey

12-13-05, 11:11 PM
...how about a credit/gp conversion, 1 credit=1gp, for purposes of determining costs for fights like this.
Dyne

12-13-05, 11:18 PM
...how about a credit/gp conversion, 1 credit=1gp, for purposes of determining costs for fights like this.

What do you mean, costs for fights? For conversions, I based it on the Profession skill. Approximately 200 credits equals 1 gp, if you compare the D&D version and the SWRPG version of the skill.

@turalisj: I had Force Points and Action Points eliminated. Giving all D&D characters Action Points as well might be an option, though, but it's up to the GM's. In fact, maybe it wouldn't be so bad to bring up alternate game systems in meta.
Dyne

12-14-05, 07:39 PM
I'm going to update the revisions. Some of the mechanics in SWRPG are variants in Unearthed Arcana, and they are also shared in D20 Modern. So, we're considering doing the following:
-Defense Bonus stays, but doesn't stack with armor. D&D characters will receive their own Defense Bonus, depending on their level.
-Reputation Bonus stays. D&D characters will have a Reputation Bonus, depending on their level.
-Force/Action Points stay. All characters will start with the same number of Force/Action Points, probably gaining points each time they level up, and possibly being awarded points from doing certain things. We will have to come up with a table to determine how many d6's to roll when spending a Force/Action Point, and Force-Sensitive characters will probably be able to roll more d6's. Light and Dark Side might not be distinguished when determining how many d6's to roll: all Force-Sensitive characters roll the same number. D&D and D20 characters will probably be able to take the Force-Sensitive feat, which will apply to their Action Points.