Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thasis 08-19-05, 02:44 PM	We formatted my computer and I don't have Word 2000 (or XP or whatever the newest version is) on my computer yet so this has not been spellchecked. Once I get word I'm bound to spellcheck it. Guild Name: Guild of Pure Good This heer is a new and revised Guild of Pure Good. A continuation of the original guilds goals and motives to promote good in the world and to try to do things the right way. All members who were in the previous GoPG will still be members of this guild... that is unless you have betrayed us and joined the dark side :P In the distince you see a radiantly shining cathedreal. As you get closer you see a plac above the doors saying "The Guild of Pure Good". You push open the door and you enter a glowing halls. Inside is a chamber with numereous chairs is sitting around. In the front of these chairs there is a great golden throne where an old man sits. He smiles and says "Welcome to my guild. I am Thasis the Good, kin of Thasis the Evil, and aposer of all that is wrong in this world. I welcome you into my halls with a full embrace. Feel free to stay hear as long as you would like". Guild Charter: The main goals of the foundation are as follows: - To promote good in the city of Tryannor - To help all those in need (no matter what there race or class is) - To try to convert ones of evil into ones of good - To use diplomicy over violence to solve problems - To provide reasorces to other guilds of good in the war against evil - To stop the Guild of Ultimate Evil and all of his acomplices Member List: Guild Master 1.) Thasis Guild Members: 2.) Silmarien Aldolome 3.) Ouroboros 4.) Graz'zt, Prince of Shadows 5.) De Batavier 6.) Galeros 7.) Agudo Archmage 8.) Dyne 9.) Frostbite Ravenheart - 11.) Von Crown 12.) Chosen of the Dark Sun 13.) Cazic 14.) Arshes 15.) Premier666 16.) Le-vantae 17.) Aramar the Black 18.) Gurney Halleck 19.) Master_of_Flames 20.) Jaggar Enemy Members 10.) Demonfay If I missed you or put you wrongly on please comment and I'll change it. Alliances: -Half Elven Foundation -Council of Archmages Others Comming Soon Enemies: -Guild of Ultimate Evil and all other acomplises Guild Leadership Score: Comming Soon Districts: Comming Soon Resource Income: Comming Soon Monthly Expenses: Comming Soon Guild Treasury/Items: Comming Soon Total Cost: Comming Soon Remaining Gold: Comming Soon Total[B]: 1,000,000 gp starting gold [B]Miscellaneous Guild Items: Comming Soon
Demonfey 08-19-05, 03:35 PM	Can I be an enemy member? Like in the HEF?
thasis 08-19-05, 05:31 PM	Why yesh you can.
Arshes 08-19-05, 05:36 PM	well, none of my characters are good nor evil, but sign me up.
thasis 08-19-05, 05:45 PM	Welcome Arshes. Nice to see you hear :D
Arshes 08-19-05, 05:47 PM	you should make a guild of balanced nuetrality.
Demonfey 08-19-05, 05:56 PM	He has made a guild of neutrality.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 08-19-05, 08:52 PM	My support is still strong here but shall be absent for about a week or so as I must disappear into the mists for awhile to take care of a little buisness (R&R :)) -Frosty
premier666 08-20-05, 11:35 AM	I joined the guild a some time ago... I even made an oficial presentation of my character Drauguril. Have I been forgotten so easely? :weep:
thasis 08-20-05, 02:40 PM	Sorry, I only looked at like the first 5 pages of the original GoPG. Sorry bout missing you out. And yes, I have a Guild of Neutrality. Never went anywhere unfourently so I didn't decide to revise it. I might though if it get's some more intrest.
Dyne 08-26-05, 07:52 PM	A message is found nailed to the guild's front door, and it reads: "Beware to all who would oppose the Stormhand Federation and its allies. The Federation's great plans for Tyranor shall not be foiled by enemies. For all of Tyranor shall be united as one people, and nothing can stop this from coming to pass."
thasis 08-26-05, 08:12 PM	"I don't know what to say about this. I'm not enemy of him but I'm not an ally. If he goes around hurting innocents though I'm going to have to put an end to him"
Le-vantae 08-31-05, 02:57 AM	hey could i sign up you seem to be a good bunch of people? a half orc in bright platinum armor made from red dragon scales walks in
Aramar the Black 08-31-05, 07:56 AM	Hey, can I join? I got a bard who would love it here.
Gurney Halleck 09-03-05, 05:23 PM	Hey y'all. I've just come back to the boards, and I'm looking to make myself known again. I thought I'd help fight against the enemies of Good everywhere, and would be honored if you would allow me to join. I'm back, and I promise to be a devoted poster once more.
thasis 09-03-05, 10:47 PM	Hey guys. I added you all to the members list. And welcome back Gurney. Nice to see you again.
Gurney Halleck 09-03-05, 11:01 PM	Thanks thasis; it's good to be back. So how are things around here? I've yet to look around much, could i perhaps get an update?
thasis 09-04-05, 02:21 AM	Mmmm, well Silmarian is gone I think. I don't know much about that unfournetly. Droga got banned. Ummm, I restarted my alignment guilds because of pruning (read a sticky). Mmmm, guild wars starting again.
Demonfey 09-04-05, 02:36 AM	High in the rafters, unseen by those below, a figure wearing a featureless white mask and a cloak that blends with the shadows as if it was a shadow watches, singling out the one target he has been sent to retrieve. Drawing a short sword, the figure fades into intangibility, and floats to the ground. On the ground, it readies the blade, and with it, trims a few pieces of hair from Gurney Halleck's head before fading back into view. The figure then grabs the hairs and, before any of you recover from the shock, fades back into intangibility... Phase one, complete. To find out details on what's going on, PM me.
Gurney Halleck 09-04-05, 11:11 AM	Gurney turns around and draws his Greatsword in a single, almost fluid motion to face his attacker. He is surprised to find that the enemy is no longer in sight, but keeps his blade readied should the Assassin reveal himself once more. "Reveal yourself, you cowardly Knave," yells an infuriated Gurney "that I might strike you down!" The following silence seems to last forever. Finally, Gurney begins to relax once more and sheathes his Sword, letting out a heavy sigh. He turns to you. "In all my travels, I thought I had forgotten everything.. My friends, and enemies. But it seems they have not forgotten me..." Gurney pauses for a moment, then takes a step towards the doors of the building. "If you will excuse me, I have business to attend to... I must find out why others have become so interested in me once more."
thasis 09-04-05, 01:11 PM	Thasis the Good looks around shocked. "How in the nine hells did he get in hear. This is an outrage. I bet it was the doing of the Guild of Ultimate Evil. They've been building up something for a long time. Mmmm, but I shall not jump to conclusions yet. It could have been anyone. We must find out who is behind whatever this is, and what they're planning to do. Thasis then ponders and paces "And also, why would they want your hair. What use is it to them?"
Gurney Halleck 09-04-05, 01:28 PM	Gurney pauses for a moment, considering the question, then simply shrugs. "I guess they just envy my really, really good hair... evil people do that you know. But wait... are they actually fully evil? Perhaps it was a hired hand or..." He begins to mumble to himself, trailing off so that you cannot understand him as he stares off into the open door, stroking under his chin.
thasis 09-04-05, 11:06 PM	"Mmmm, well something inportant is going on. I can sense it. I can't place what exactly is going on though" Luke, I sense a disturbance in the force :P
Master_of_Flames 09-04-05, 11:39 PM	An figure garbed in a moon and star mask walked into the halls, a long blade at his side. Although I am not at liberaty to tell you who that was, I can tell you that he is indeed a hired hand. I offer my services to this guild, for a fee of course. I can get into most any 'secure' area's without being detected. I can obtain some of the dearest kept secrets. But they come at a price. Zerin is LN, with his personal code of conduct putting him on the border of being NG. So he is going to be hanging around here.
thasis 09-05-05, 07:29 PM	"I welcome you Zerin. It is a pleasure to be in your company. I wish you could reveal more of what you know but you have your motives and I have mine. I will not be snoopy if you are not snoopy into mine"
thasis 09-12-05, 12:09 AM	"Darkness eats away at the world. Corruption takes the purest of hearts. Plague destroys even the strongest of famlies. And where are the good when this happens. Where has the pure hearts who rise against the darkness the swarms us everyday. Rally ones of the good! Let us raise are banner in a march against evil! Lets reform and regroup! Strengthen are defense and bring on a stronger offense! Let the Guild of Pure Good return to it's former glory!" Call this an extravagent bump :P
jagggar 09-19-05, 11:21 PM	The woman with the black tatoo from the Arena enters the halls and bows before Thasis the Good. "I seek shelter until at least the competition. And I seek friends for much longer. Might I find these here?"
Demonfey 09-20-05, 01:14 AM	Sure you want to have the paladin complex? Umbral flames coalesce, and the umbral incarnation of Crowley manifests After a while, it does get quite annoying, after all...
thasis 09-20-05, 09:50 AM	Thasis the Good looks with a kind age-old smile. "I would very much enjoy your company in my halls. Feel free to stay as long as you wish, and after you do leave please come back regularly. It is always a pleasantry to have the company of others"
Demonfey 09-20-05, 12:34 PM	Even if I try to convince them that evil is more fun?
thasis 09-20-05, 07:03 PM	"Evil can be seen as fun only in the mind of those as mentally unstable as yourself" Thasis says well glaring at Crowley. "Now unless you want to encure my rath I suggest leaving"
Demonfey 09-20-05, 07:07 PM	Aww, but don't you want to know why I really came?
thasis 09-20-05, 07:12 PM	"I'm intressted. If you'd get straight to the point then it'd make things easier"
jagggar 09-20-05, 08:25 PM	"Thank you." she nods to Thasis. Even if I try to convince them that evil is more fun? "Indeed, being beaten and. . . then some and left to die by your own kin is much more fun than helping those in need."
Demonfey 09-20-05, 09:40 PM	@jagggar:Since that happens to me no matter what side I'm on, I might as well be on a side where its expected of each other and easily predicted. @thasis:I just came to mess with you. You seemed so bored, after all. :D
Aramar the Black 09-20-05, 11:59 PM	"Ah, what is good, without evil? Crowley, thank you for "making things interesting"" :)
Demonfey 09-21-05, 12:03 AM	Any time.
thasis 09-21-05, 12:22 AM	Thasis the Good looks at Crowley. "If it wasn't for the fact that your entertaining I'd kick you out. Be lucky you have the gift of humar"
Demonfey 09-21-05, 12:24 AM	I know. That's why I came over.
jagggar 09-21-05, 12:25 AM	A look of pain comes over her face, "You too. . ." She shakes herself before dwelling too much on the past. "If that is your choice, then you rub the salt in your own wounds."
thasis 09-21-05, 12:29 AM	"What is wrong there comrad? If you wish to speak of your troubles I will listen"
Demonfey 09-21-05, 12:30 AM	Not so much my choice as that of another, who forced me to take on a more evil persona to prevent his stupidity from leading to something a few TIMES worse than me. A fair example would be a demi-lich form of Droga. Quick lesson: when a powerful force of good, evil, law, or chaos dies completely, they are replaced by a stronger force for that side to prevent an imbalance. In any case, I'm just inhabiting a souless host body I made. I actually died a few months ago.
jagggar 09-21-05, 11:37 PM	"What is wrong there comrad? If you wish to speak of your troubles I will listen" She shakes her head. "Should I share, I think it shall be at another time."
Demonfey 09-22-05, 12:00 AM	Just remember, there is always the Penguin's Breath if you need to forget. Or maybe the Blue Lizard, although you'd have to leave your sanity outside.
thasis 09-22-05, 09:51 AM	"As you wish. Your problems are yours to divulge at the time of your choice"
gabrion 10-16-05, 08:26 PM	Is anyone still active in this guild? Well, actually the answer to that question seems to be a "no" (considering date of the last post), but a better question is whether or not anyone would like the GoPG to re-establish itself. I'm kinda interested in joining the ranks of Pure Good (though I'll need another character to do so), but I'd like to see that there is still interest in the Guild.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-16-05, 08:32 PM	Hi there Gabrion, Yes, - hang on - lemme cut a better post....but, hello there to start off! :)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-16-05, 08:46 PM	You hear a chanting prayer, like the sounds of a choir, but in an up-tempo beat. Suprano, Mesosuprano, Alto, Tenor and Bass - like hundreds of voices singing in Praise of the Goddess. The sun brightens and nature sighs with relief, as the trees and grass blades lean towards you, whispering thanks We live! We live! The stones speak - Bear us to Hallowed Grounds. There is a flash of blue and silver and a woman materialises, cleansing herself from the ruin of anguish under noon-day sun. She is sobbing in relief and praying to her Deity. It is Silimna and her Silverywhite hair, shines under the sunlight and her green eyes pierce the gulf between dimensions as she stares into the Otherworld where Eilistraee walks... Praise Eilistraee, for Guidance Hallowed Wandering and Life-Giving Prayer Cleanse the Soul with Solace I give thanks I celebrate thine love I am Humbled before thee Your Gifts are infinite and your Generosity boundless. No death do I fear, for in passing I fall into your arms, Home again after a wearying journey in the Dark. Praise Eilistraee Seeing Gabrion, Silimna beckons, waving eagerly "Come hither Gabrion - there is much to prepare. For The Undead taint walks the earth and is a blight to all who live" She Sings Eilistraee's song, and you see two ghastly holes on her stomach region, bruised all about. Eilistraee's Wyrding floods the wounds, the bruising vanishes under the midday sunlight, and Silimna seems to recover lost health. Her already glowing cheeks, assume an even healthier aspect. Cleans the wound, and expel the taint I expel the Darkness and return to my Goddess's arms Ever faithful, Let the Shame of all that is ghastly within propel me, to Health and Life by teaching me Humility Forgive transgression Heal She is immolated in Divine light....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-16-05, 09:39 PM	Declaration to Reader Life-Affirming R&D is quite high on my mind, as you can imagine, after the recent battle at the Royal Tyranorian Guard. I'm going to be developing ideas here, (alongside Wildthread R&D at the HEF) and below are some ideas about what is needed. Ideas are presented by category Methods of Save, Constitution, HP increases versus attacks from the Negative Material Plane, or attacks that cyphon Health/Energy; Spells for downwardly modifying assailants that draw on energy from the Negative Material Plane, Plane of Shadow, and Nine Layers; Magic Items for same areas noted above; PrCs for the specialist (good) purposes; Especially anti-Undead methods I already have a few ideas, and just posted my first spell for these areas at the Materials for Review thread. The spell is called Holy Blood and it protects you from constitution damage when the attack comes from Undead blood drain. For when the blood is infused with energy from the Positive Material Plane, it becomes poison to Undead. In this way, our Clerics and our folk were afforded protection from the invading Undead.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-16-05, 09:44 PM	Holy Blood Abjuration Level: Good, 5 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 10 Minutes Range: Touch Target: One Living Creature Duration: 24 Hours Saving Throw: Special Spell Resistance: Yes Description When this spell is cast, the Cleric opens a portal to the Positive Material Plane, allowing the influx of life-giving energies to infuse the blood. For the duration of the spell, the subject's blood is bolstered by the protective powers of positive energy. When Undead attempt to drink the subject's blood, the burning Holy Blood will damage Undead (1d6 + Caster Level per round, Fort Halves) burning them from the inside with Holy Blood. In addition to this, feeding requires an initial Will Save (DC=10+Spell Level+Ability Modifier) and concentration check (DC=10+1 per point of damage done) every round to continue feeding. For every additional round beyond the first, the assailant suffers -4 penalty, cumulative to the Concentration Check. The subject also receives the protection of taking only half the constitution drain, for the duration of the spell. If the subject is still under the effects of constitution drain absorbed by the spell, at the end of the spell's duration, they lose the protection afforded and must adjust their constitution score, downwards. The spell was invented by the Drow of Eilistraee, during the period in history of the Undead invasions and assisted them to survive.
Demonfey 10-16-05, 10:03 PM	Upon entering, you see one of Crowley's many bodies going through the stuff there Hm...no, no good...holy, blech...paladin items...argh, why isn't there anything of USE here?
gabrion 10-16-05, 10:04 PM	Good to see activity here. I will respond to your RP post with my new character, Aranel, when I get a little more time to think something up. As for anti-undead stuff out there, I think a lot of it can be found with a little research. Just a few things that come to mind (will post more when I have time to do actual research on the topic): Master of Radience-PrC from LM that is made specifically for fighting undead. Searing Light Spell-Pretty useful against undead(the MoR gets this 1x/round for 1 min) Sunbeam Spell-Pretty much one of the best spells against undead (MoR gets this 1x/round for 1 min) Sheltered Vitality Spell-This spell from LM makes the caster immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability drain or damage for 1 min/level Undead bane weapon-This spell (yes, it's a spell), makes your weapon undead band, giving it a further +2 enhancement bonus and doing extra damage to them. These are just a few ideas and I'm sure a lot more can be found with a little research.
Demonfey 10-16-05, 10:07 PM	Incarnum seems to have some interesting abilities, moreso than umbral fire. That's it, most of umbral fire will be scrapped. Also, manifesting things like a mask that breathes out petrifying gas has much appeal...
jagggar 10-16-05, 10:10 PM	To respond to your post from the materials thread, I actually think it would be interesting if the spell healed living creatures that were capable of drinking blood. In a dire situation, you could cast the spell and let your friends drink of your healing blood.
Demonfey 10-16-05, 10:17 PM	Probably would be popular with the blood mages.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 01:09 AM	Good to see activity here. I will respond to your RP post with my new character, Aranel, when I get a little more time to think something up. As for anti-undead stuff out there, I think a lot of it can be found with a little research. my thoughts exactly. I'm off to Mind Games to look for Lubris Mortis, and.... [quote]Just a few things that come to mind (will post more when I have time to do actual research on the topic): Master of Radience-PrC from LM that is made specifically for fighting undead. Searing Light Spell-Pretty useful against undead(the MoR gets this 1x/round for 1 min) Sunbeam Spell-Pretty much one of the best spells against undead (MoR gets this 1x/round for 1 min) Sheltered Vitality Spell-This spell from LM makes the caster immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability drain or damage for 1 min/level Undead bane weapon-This spell (yes, it's a spell), makes your weapon undead band, giving it a further +2 enhancement bonus and doing extra damage to them. These are just a few ideas and I'm sure a lot more can be found with a little research. good! (pun intended) :) They're great ideas, Gabe! Stuff to improve turn function, some instant free actions for Undead-specific events and I really like the Sheltered Vitality is *fantastic*! as well as those great things - areas of research to build on existent works. @jagggar nice + :cool: *and* - keep counting the rounds - time is still being measured post-mortum. Silimna's vigor returns to her under the noon-day sun. She muses to herself now - we must prepare. The Living are in need of our assistance. Fell things walk the world @Demonfey I think that's a good place to begin a review, this end. There'll be a bounty harvest to pool into new research initiatives here. Be back in an hours, going to the shops! :) *vanishes in flash of Blue and Silver*
Demonfey 10-17-05, 01:27 AM	But...I'm trying to loot what was an empty building...this is the second time I've had Crowley begin going through the stuff here looking for anything useful.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 04:51 AM	I have that Libris Mortis thing, and *vomits* it's full of gross, things to creep people out with. However, it is rocket fuel for creating equivalents from the Postive Material Plane. I am currently *coughs* "enjoying" the discovery - even if it is to propel the creation of a remedy. @Demonfey not that it's my business, but I'd rather see you work on the Umbral fire to make it inspire you in the same way the other stuff you've found does. The Umbral Lore is a great base Lore and has a lot of potential. But, it's your movie.... @all be back soon. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 06:32 AM	(and re-posting this one) - (Reference: Ibris Mortis The Book of the Undead p. 11 [see Undead Propagation] p.74-74 [see Positoxins] p.84 [Description, Atropal Scion]) right, then! Um, those revolting Necrotic Cyst spell series are truly off! I found the entry for Atropal Scion, and, perhaps I will quote a description. From Metadimensional Space, Silmarien opens a Scrying Portal for you. She is busy researching in Peredhil Halls Library. For she knows what befell Silimna and the narrow escape in the confrontation. She scans the library--the vast round building and its watching Gargoyels--seeking Lore on how to Unmake the Undead. She looks out to your scrying portal and her green eyes pierce the gulf between dimensions. She says "For, more like a contagion they are, and once loose, none amongst the living are safe. And like a disease, the source of the infection must be rooted out" (as summarised by Ibris Mortis, in the Undead Propagation section). She finds a large, fell looking Leather Bound tome, and on its title it says Ibris Mortis - The Book of the Undead Placing the book on the great round table in the Library, she opens the Tome, and the cover thuds on the table. Suddenly, the Silverstarfire Lanterns in the Keep dim, momentarily and a cold breeze blows through The Keep. The breeze blows the pages and they rustle as they turn, finally resting on an entry The Atropal Scion The creature's hairless overlarge head surmounts its wet, wrinkled and bloated humanoid body. Its eyes are glassy and vacant. Its arms are too slender, and its tiny hands end in cruelly sharpened nails, while its legs are atrophied, dead things that hand useless below it. thence, the breeze blows again, and the lights brighten. Looking out at your scrying portal, Silmarien says "for though the Undead is a Supernatural creature, it must obey some Natural Laws" [font=book antiqua]The Lore of the Positoxin Positoxins are special alchemical substances distilled from holy water and laced with positive energy. to a corporeal undead creatures, a positoxin functions much like a poison. Bloodwine: This thick, crimson positoxin includes garlic in its creation, making it particularly harmful to vampires and other undead with a vulnerability to garlic. Though normally delivered by injury, it can also be consumed by a living creature to deliver it to a vampire or similar blood-draining creature by ingestion. A single dose, if consumed by a living creature, remains in the bloodstream for 12 hours. Boneshard Paste: This positoxin includes bone fragments in its recipe, giving it a pale color. This powerful Undead bane will permanently damage an Undead's strength. Celestial Essence: This viscous golden substance seems almost to shine with an inner radiance. Upon making contact with Undead, this Essence attacks the creatures Will, lowering the Undead's ability to resist spells through weakened Will. Gravedust: This gray-brown powder derives its name from its resemblance to the grime common to tombs and other long-enclosed areas. This powder causes Undead to become clumsier, influencing their coordination skills. The effects are permanent. Lichbane: This bone-white ungent is equally dangerous to all spellcasting undead, as well as to those that depnd on mental ability scores for their special attacks. The initial damage is permanent drain. Lichbane is a powerful insult to Undead. Success with the ungent simultaneously damages an Undead's Intelligence, Wisdon and Charisma. Liquid Mortality: This potent oil is thought by most undead creatures to be mere myth. Unlike other positoxins, it can reduce the target's ability score to 0. Any undead crature whose Strength is reduced to 0 by this positoxin is utterly destroyed. Liquid Mortality is a permanent bane on the Undead's strength, damaging the force that holds their sinew together. Sunlight Oil: A thin, slippery liquid, sunlight oil lasts only 24 hours in conditions other than bright light. This oil is only nigh less powerful than liquid mortality, causing permanent damage to an Undead's strength and agility. Silmarien looks up at you, pointing to complex alchemical formulae required to make such substances. "they also cost gold. Silimna's knowledge of this Lore is not good, but there may be those in Eilistraee's world who know more. These positoxins may be made by the combined Wyrding of a Wizard and Cleric, and so, Silimna will be able to work with her colleagues...."
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 06:44 AM	And there are many spells in that book with SR=No! More on two pages that in the whole PHB put together. But, that aside, what I found was Positoxins; Ecotplasmic Feedback armour; Protection from Negative Energy; Sheltered Vitality (which can be cast on short notice in a tight spot-prevents ability drain); and Spawn Screen (stops you rising from death to undeath. Prevents your soul from being waylaid) Not much in a 189 page tome, but enough for some building blocks! Going thru them one at a time Positoxin Preparation (Craft (Alchemy)) Item Type Initial Damage Secondary Dam Price Craft Gravedust Contact DC 10 1 Dex* 1d4 Dex* 100gp DC 20 Boneshard Paste Contact DC 13 1 Str* 1d4 Str* 750gp DC 26 Sunlight Oil Contact DC 16 1d3 Str* 1d3 Dex*+1d3 Str* 1300gp DC 32 Bloodwine Injury DC 11** 1d4 Cha 2d4 Cha 250gp DC 22 Celestial Essence Injury DC 14 1d6 Wis 2d6 Wis 400gp DC 28 Lichbane Injury DC 17 1 Int* 1 Wis* 1 Cha* 1d4 Int +1d4 Wis + 1d4 Cha 650gp DC 34 Liquid Mortality Injury DC 20 1d4 Str* 2d4 Str* 1,250gp DC 40 *Ability Drain, not Ability Damage. Effect is permanent **On Injestion, DC 9, see text There's more in-text for each specific Positoxin.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 07:15 AM	Banes of the Undead. Methods of Save, Constitution, HP increases versus attacks from the Negative Material Plane, or attacks that cyphon Health/Energy; Spells for downwardly modifying assailants that draw on energy from the Positive Material Plane 1. Searing Light Spell (pretty useful against undead) 2. Disrupting Weapon (destroys undead of equal or lower HD to you, on failed Will Save) 3. Protection from Negative Energy (DR 10 for attacks caused by negative energy) 4. Sheltered Vitality (This spell from LM makes the caster immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability drain or damage for 1 min/level) 5. Spawn Screen (Prevents you from coming back as an Undead if you copped it) 6. Undead Bane Weapon Negative Material Plane, Plane of Shadow, and Nine Layers; Magic Items for same areas noted above 1. Ectoplasmis Feedback Armour; PrCs for the specialist (good) purposes 2. Master of Radience-PrC from LM that is made specifically for fighting undead; Especially anti-Undead methods. Banes of the Undead - to Build Spells, Spell-like Abilities, Supernatural Powers that create Auras that modify Undead's Saves, DC Checks, Attacks and Skill Checks downwardly; Knocking out the Will Saves of sentient Undead; Ways of Improving Turn Attempts, using magical modifiers; Ways of "Quickening" Turn Undead Attempts; Poisoning Undead flesh, like the Necrotic spell series on the living, but in reverse.
Master_of_Flames 10-17-05, 07:29 AM	add positoxins to the list. undead have no con score, thus no con mod, and then thus have a low fort save. :D (poistoxins are laced with positive energy) *throws his backpack at the bus as it leaves without him*
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 07:33 AM	Hi there MoF, Reposting from Page Prior..... Positoxins; Ecotplasmic Feedback armour; Protection from Negative Energy; Sheltered Vitality (which can be cast on short notice in a tight spot-prevents ability drain); and Spawn Screen (stops you rising from death to undeath. Prevents your soul from being waylaid) Not much in a 189 page tome, but enough for some building blocks! Going thru them one at a time Positoxin Preparation (Craft (Alchemy)) Item Type Initial Damage Secondary Dam Price Craft Gravedust Contact DC 10 1 Dex* 1d4 Dex* 100gp DC 20 Boneshard Paste Contact DC 13 1 Str* 1d4 Str* 750gp DC 26 Sunlight Oil Contact DC 16 1d3 Str* 1d3 Dex*+1d3 Str* 1300gp DC 32 Bloodwine Injury DC 11** 1d4 Cha 2d4 Cha 250gp DC 22 Celestial Essence Injury DC 14 1d6 Wis 2d6 Wis 400gp DC 28 Lichbane Injury DC 17 1 Int* 1 Wis* 1 Cha* 1d4 Int +1d4 Wis + 1d4 Cha 650gp DC 34 Liquid Mortality Injury DC 20 1d4 Str* 2d4 Str* 1,250gp DC 40 *Ability Drain, not Ability Damage. Effect is permanent **On Injestion, DC 9, see text There's more in-text for each specific Positoxin.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 07:34 AM	(and re-posting this one) - (Reference: Ibris Mortis The Book of the Undead p. 11 [see Undead Propagation] p.74-74 [see Positoxins] p.84 [Description, Atropal Scion]) right, then! Um, those revolting Necrotic Cyst spell series are truly off! I found the entry for Atropal Scion, and, perhaps I will quote a description. From Metadimensional Space, Silmarien opens a Scrying Portal for you. She is busy researching in Peredhil Halls Library. For she knows what befell Silimna and the narrow escape in the confrontation. She scans the library--the vast round building and its watching Gargoyels--seeking Lore on how to Unmake the Undead. She looks out to your scrying portal and her green eyes pierce the gulf between dimensions. She says "For, more like a contagion they are, and once loose, none amongst the living are safe. And like a disease, the source of the infection must be rooted out" (as summarised by Ibris Mortis, Undead Propagation). She finds a large, fell looking Leather Bound tome, and on its title it says Ibris Mortis - The Book of the Undead Placing the book on the great round table in the Library, she opens the Tome, and the cover thuds on the table. Suddenly, the Silverstarfire Lanterns in the Keep dim, momentarily and a cold breeze blows through The Keep. The breeze blows the pages and they rustle as they turn, finally resting on an entry The Atropal Scion The creature's hairless overlarge head surmounts its wet, wrinkled and bloated humanoid body. Its eyes are glassy and vacant. Its arms are too slender, and its tiny hands end in cruelly sharpened nails, while its legs are atrophied, dead things that hand useless below it. thence, the breeze blows again, and the lights brighten. Looking out at your scrying portal, Silmarien says "for though the Undead is a Supernatural creature, it must obey some Natural Laws" The Lore of the Positoxin Positoxins are special alchemical substances distilled from holy water and laced with positive energy. to a corporeal undead creatures, a positoxin functions much like a poison. Bloodwine: This thick, crimson positoxin includes garlic in its creation, making it particularly harmful to vampires and other undead with a vulnerability to garlic. Though normally delivered by injury, it can also be consumed by a living creature to deliver it to a vampire or similar blood-draining creature by ingestion. A single dose, if consumed by a living creature, remains in the bloodstream for 12 hours. Boneshard Paste: This positoxin includes bone fragments in its recipe, giving it a pale color. This powerful Undead bane will permanently damage an Undead's strength. Celestial Essence: This viscous golden substance seems almost to shine with an inner radiance. Upon making contact with Undead, this Essence attacks the creatures Will, lowering the Undead's ability to resist spells through weakened Will. Gravedust: This gray-brown powder derives its name from its resemblance to the grime common to tombs and other long-enclosed areas. This powder causes Undead to become clumsier, influencing their coordination skills. The effects are permanent. Lichbane: This bone-white ungent is equally dangerous to all spellcasting undead, as well as to those that depnd on mental ability scores for their special attacks. The initial damage is permanent drain. Lichbane is a powerful insult to Undead. Success with the ungent simultaneously damages an Undead's Intelligence, Wisdon and Charisma. Liquid Mortality: This potent oil is thought by most undead creatures to be mere myth. Unlike other positoxins, it can reduce the target's ability score to 0. Any undead crature whose Strength is reduced to 0 by this positoxin is utterly destroyed. Liquid Mortality is a permanent bane on the Undead's strength, damaging the force that holds their sinew together. Sunlight Oil: A thin, slippery liquid, sunlight oil lasts only 24 hours in conditions other than bright light. This oil is only nigh less powerful than liquid mortality, causing permanent damage to an Undead's strength and agility. Silmarien looks up at you, pointing to complex alchemical formulae required to make such substances. "they also cost gold. Silimna's knowledge of this Lore is not good, but there may be those in Eilistraee's world who know more. These positoxins may be made by the combined Wyrding of a Wizard and Cleric, and so, Silimna will be able to work with her colleagues...."
Demonfey 10-17-05, 03:14 PM	So who's running this now? Silimna, maybe? Just to let you know, though I will be whoever's running this place's opposite, leading the GoUE in Thasis' absence there.
thasis 10-17-05, 05:38 PM	Silmarian would be a good leader during my absense (both IG and OOG). Figure it out amongst yourselves though.
premier666 10-17-05, 05:52 PM	I'm voting for whomever make the in game stuff, that needed to be done ages ago.
Aramar the Black 10-17-05, 05:58 PM	Well, I'm stopping in to let it be known that I am here. But this anti-undead stuff isn't really my bread and butter, so to speak. Infact, I recently, with avid interest, read a thread on the evil nature of undead, and questioned my self on why minor undead, mummies, and the animate dead spell are always seen as evil.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 06:06 PM	Hi Demonfey and everyone. My view is that (provided the threadkeeper isn't active) anyone who wants to add value can just post their thangs. Everyone has so much good value to add. I've got a great deal of Research and Development inspired by that last little exchange at the RTG. thasis is our threadkeeper, and we welcome his guideance, I hope. :) @Aramar, Hi there Aramar! :) Good to see you. I'll post some stuff from Ibris Mortis on "Undead and Compassion" (or rather, the absence of it, typically, but not always). I think Animate gets a bad wrap by the goody-gods because it's manipulating a body without a mind. I'm not sure that's always evil. Prolly, mostly an evil act. @all But, this is the Guild of Pure Good, and it'd be great to hava look at the whole area. The Guild's morality, as the posters see it, is an important part of the brief. :) regards stav *more anti-Undead Product.....incoming "For the Temple of the Damned houses creatures fell beyond the reckoning of men. Helpless folk shall be picked off, to feed the Undead hunger. This thing must not be. That's based on Ibris Mortis, too. There's a whole section on it, spelling out how Undead have an irrefusable drive to feed. *nausea+feels creeped out* ;) regards stav
Aramar the Black 10-17-05, 06:13 PM	No worries, SIl, I own a copy on the Book of the Dead. I read through it a few dozens times already, with emphisis on the life of an undead (outlook, compassion, etc..)
premier666 10-17-05, 06:21 PM	No worries, SIl, I own a copy on the Book of the Dead. I read through it a few dozens times already, with emphisis on the life of an undead (outlook, compassion, etc..) People, not all undead are evil. What's evil its the nature of the spell that animates them. Every undead with mind (more than 3 points in inteligence) may choose betwheen good and evil. But most choose evil.
Aramar the Black 10-17-05, 06:28 PM	People, not all undead are evil. What's evil its the nature of the spell that animates them. Every undead with mind (more than 3 points in inteligence) may choose betwheen good and evil. But most choose evil. Well, yes. I didn't say that they all were (at least I hope I didn't). But why is it that, dispite this this, the undead seem defulted to evil? Skeletons and zombies and and the animat dead spell are all considered evil, though the first two are mindless, and the spell seem wrongly labeled. All its doing is using a natarual, non-evil energy to give motion to some bones and flesh. Like animating a pile of rocks. Mummies are also subject to a similar "prejudice" Personnaly, I see mummies as having no more liklyhood of being evil that liches do, probably even more.
premier666 10-17-05, 06:32 PM	Well, yes. I didn't say that they all were (at least I hope I didn't). But why is it that, dispite this this, the undead seem defulted to evil? Skeletons and zombies and and the animat dead spell are all considered evil, though the first two are mindless, and the spell seem wrongly labeled. All its doing is using a natarual, non-evil energy to give motion to some bones and flesh. Like animating a pile of rocks. Mummies are also subject to a similar "prejudice" Personnaly, I see mummies as having no more liklyhood of being evil that liches do, probably even more. You should blame movies like "The return of the mummy" that gave wizards that Idea. :rolleyes: Besides, the PCs needed people to fight.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 06:39 PM	@Premier, G'day Premier. You're a scholar of Tolkien, aren't you. The Moriquendi are indeed Silimna's equivalent in D&D. @Aramar Mummies aren't sentient, I think, so it wouldn't be quite right to judge them as having a morality, I think. But, sentient Undead are compassionless, as a group, as you'd have seen in Ibris Mortis, and very dangerous to the Living. They need to feed, and this makes co-habitation in towns, quite untennable for the living. It does also say in Ibris that they are capable of acts of compassion, but are "just as likely" to go after the person they took compassion on, the next time they're hungry. regards stav
Aramar the Black 10-17-05, 06:39 PM	Well, wasn't there an old film "the Mummy" with Boris Karlov that cast muumy in an evil light? I think that particular image tended to stick. But the other "Mummy" movies didn't help either. People to fight? Why not choose from the other thousands some evil creatures? I've seen so many kind of undead that thier almost just boring, now. :D
premier666 10-17-05, 06:49 PM	@Premier, G'day Premier. You're a scholar of Tolkien, aren't you. The Moriquendi are indeed Silimna's equivalent in D&D. @Aramar Mummies aren't sentient, I think, so it wouldn't be quite right to judge them as having a morality, I think. But, sentient Undead are compassionless, as a group, as you'd have seen in Ibris Mortis, and very dangerous to the Living. They need to feed, and this makes co-habitation in towns, quite untennable for the living. It does also say in Ibris that they are capable of acts of compassion, but are "just as likely" to go after the person they took compassion on, the next time they're hungry. regards stav The Moriquendi that my character Mandos come from (btw he will be here soon), is a interplanar coalition of even races determined to help all the words they can. Since they dont want to interfere much, or upset the residents, they just send a few men (elves) to help the forces of good in this word. normally this unity is very stealthy, and leaded by a Paladin. They are the moriquendi: the shadow elves, in the way that they dont reveal themselves unless really nessessary.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 06:49 PM	For Premier, *hoots&cheers* Huan! & the Tale of Beren & Luthien, one of my favourites. Silmarien was fourth in line for the Throne of Numenor, her sister was Silimna, but the throne went to her first cousin, who was male. Elendil, Anarion and Isildur - and so, Aragorn come from Silmarien's line! @all sorry for the distraction.... @Aramar That's what I said. Face them outnumered and you'll feel different. I find with D&D that actually doing the D&D gives you a very different experience. There's an illusion of control when we read the rules-texts. But facing the things coded up in the rules, is a very different experience.... "Their Unholy flesh was radiant with stench and, my mind was mine own, for I went into the battle with Holy Aura that protected me from their mind control. Thus, their fangs hurt, greatly, and the memory of the pain lingers. Their leering, dead stares, and rotting corpses. In but another 12 seconds, my life would have eneded Praise Eilistraee By the Grace of the Goddess, I prevailed I walk the world by the Grace of her Compassion But for her love, I would have perished Praise Eilistraee!"
Aramar the Black 10-17-05, 06:54 PM	The so many undead it boiring thing was from a DM's perspective. I'm sure I'd feel different facing down a field of them. Mummies, were they not sentient, face the same "misconceptions" as skeletons and zombies. Were they sentient, it seems to me that there is no reason why they cannot be good; heck, I'd see them being N or LN, easily, rather than evil. Good less so, but along the moral axis, it probably depends on the mummy itself, and whi happened to animate it.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-17-05, 07:10 PM	@Aramar Mummies, were they not sentient, face the same "misconceptions" as skeletons and zombies. Were they sentient, it seems to me that there is no reason why they cannot be good; heck, I'd see them being N or LN, easily, rather than evil. Good less so, but along the moral axis, it probably depends on the mummy itself, and whi happened to animate it Very Buffy-esque. :) The show and those like it did a great deal of work to humanise demons, undead and things like that. We have the Vengeance Demon librarian, and Spike, who was not 'all bad'. D&D tends to have polarisations into good versus evil and law versus chaos. It's a part of the engine for the story. Good Undead - that would require that the organisation of the Negative Material Plane undergo a major shift. The source of power of Undead, being from the 'dark side' *chews cookie* comes from the Life-Sink. There is provision in Ibris Mortis for varying alignments of Undead, to some degree. Typically, they are evil though, and their morality reflects that 'morality'. It's an interesting discussion. Silimna's whiteblond hair, being darker than a Drow's wont, but still very light in hue, her green eyes and dark skin but also paler than a Drow's wont signal her Elven heritage. For she had one grandparent who was Elven, and who is also Silmarien's grandparent. Silimna muses "Creating a Good Undead may be a technical impossibility, because they are filled with power from the negative material plane. This, as I understand it, corrupts the motivation, imbuing it with cruelty" @all But, constructing Good Undead, might well be a mission brief here!! :) *grins* @Aramar nice suggestion! :) Okay, gotta go to work, alas! But, as noted before Anti-Undead D&D Powers Incoming........
jagggar 10-17-05, 07:29 PM	Okay, look at standard undead lore, myth, legend from our history. Now how often are they good? Read in a topic on Races board that the reason skellies and zombos are evil is because otherwise they are not blocked by spells like magic circle. I could see spells that create undead as evil if it somehow kept the soul of the animated creature from completing it's after-life journey. But there's no fluff to say anything like that. Therefore, I think it's not right that the spells have the evil descriptor.
Aramar the Black 10-17-05, 07:36 PM	Interesting. Perhaps, the energy planes are like mountains and valleys, with the positive side being the mountain itself. Perhaps it is easier to slide into the hungry maws, than to climb the mountain despite your position. And the undead, when created are given that hungry from the "pit" as a life force. So, I can see reasons for the "lesser" undead to fall to cruelty and destruction. But, maybe, if we see the planes differently, where the hill/valley analogy begins to be less useful, then it might be like this: Both planes, in the biggest picture, perhaps, are set to even out. When the Negative has "swallowed" the positive, then the Positive is gone, but so is the Negaitve "full", and thus also gone, devoid of purpose. As creatures of Positive energy, we are always falling to the maw. But with undead, perhaps they see things the same way; they are falling to the maw of Positive Energy, from thier Negative peak. And thus they too would have a life-span. Maybe Good Undead are rare. But we have seen what Positve powered persons can do, how deep thier cruelty can reach, or how great thier goodness can be; are they all still on the Positive side? Then why do Undead fallow such a narrow moral path? Could moving toward the Positive side truely be more difficult? Perhaps, thier "biological" inclinations for movement to the Positive side,which mirrors our movement to the negative, could be more greatly or more subtly manifested? I'll organize my thoughts later :D
Aramar the Black 10-17-05, 07:39 PM	Okay, look at standard undead lore, myth, legend from our history. Now how often are they good? Read in a topic on Races board that the reason skellies and zombos are evil is because otherwise they are not blocked by spells like magic circle. I could see spells that create undead as evil if it somehow kept the soul of the animated creature from completing it's after-life journey. But there's no fluff to say anything like that. Therefore, I think it's not right that the spells have the evil descriptor. Yes, but is the alignment thier fualt, or a dictation of thier creators (sorcerers, priests, gods, etc..) Holy persons just tend to call undead less often. Problem with the system, then. Mechanical Well, if the spell were to create a hungering thing like the wraith or something, then I can see potential reasons for the evil descriptor. But animate dead should definitly not be an evil spell.
jagggar 10-17-05, 08:11 PM	Disclaimer: This post references real world religions in connection with the real world mythology behind several D&D monsters. If you find such references offensive, please tell me and explain why (since I don't see them to be). And I will try to avoid them in the future. Yes, but is the alignment thier fualt, or a dictation of thier creators (sorcerers, priests, gods, etc..) Holy persons just tend to call undead less often. Well, if you stick to the traditional (Christian worldview-based) vampire myth, there is no way they can be good. Vampires try to find their own way to eternal life and they are repelled by cruxifixes (crosses to a lesser extent) not because it is a holy symbol presented with faith and confidence, but because it is the Body of Christ. Once the little statue of Buddha is as effective at repelling Dracula as the cross is or only a Star of David can repel a Jewish vampire, you've stepped over into our post-modern vampires-can-be good myth. Likewise a pact with the devil is among the easist ways to become a werewolf (since we seem to have a shortage of weres). Turn it into WW's Werewolf:TA, and the cute puppies are good with some anger management problems. So really, I'd say that if undead are evil or not really depends on the setting. Should the story I write say that undeath is almost as natural as life and death, then there probably isn't a good reason for undead to be evil. But if I write that the power of undeath was unleashed upon the world by vile demons and that the gods never meant for it to be, then you've got a solid backing for undead being evil.
Demonfey 10-17-05, 08:15 PM	Here I'd say that the reason that more undead are evil is because first it is how they are cast, and second they have just been born into a new life without anything inhibiting their mental capacities or anything blocking their emotions, and death is no longer anything to fear, and so they lose fear and slowly lose sanity at the constant onslaught their minds may be put into.
thasis 10-17-05, 09:17 PM	I'm active... jus drifting more then posting. I'm also working on some creativity stuff. Designing some Core Classes. So far I got the Black Mage and the White Mage done. I have 2 more to post and then I'm probally going back to work on the Guild House some more.
gabrion 10-17-05, 09:38 PM	I'm active... jus drifting more then posting. I'm also working on some creativity stuff. Designing some Core Classes. So far I got the Black Mage and the White Mage done. I have 2 more to post and then I'm probally going back to work on the Guild House some more. From reading the Temple of the Damned thread I assume that "Thasis the Good" really is gone though?
thasis 10-17-05, 10:05 PM	Maybe *grins evily*... everything shall be revealed in good time :P
gabrion 10-17-05, 10:21 PM	Maybe *grins evily*... everything shall be revealed in good time :P Ok, but when my character shows up here, is Thasis sitting in the chair as described in the OP?
thasis 10-17-05, 10:26 PM	You'll see... At that momment the guild doors rush open. Standing in a bloody mass is Thasis the Good. He is covered in blood and has large gashes all across his body. He slowly walks himself to his chair and sits down. He then collapses into unconciousness.
gabrion 10-17-05, 11:16 PM	You'll see... At that momment the guild doors rush open. Standing in a bloody mass is Thasis the Good. He is covered in blood and has large gashes all across his body. He slowly walks himself to his chair and sits down. He then collapses into unconciousness. My bad, I'll post in character soon, so that I will actually know what is going on. :)
thasis 10-17-05, 11:29 PM	I'm hoping for this to be an intressting RPing experiance. I hope some more activity will come of the place.
gabrion 10-17-05, 11:49 PM	The old man travelled the broken road before him, following the guidance of Illmatar to the place he was sure would be his new home. The path was dusty and the journey long, allowing thoughts of the past to wander through his mind like dandelions on an unsettled breeze... Once he had been called Aramel the poor, as he walked the land depriving himself of the luxaries in which so many around him were want to indulge themselves. Once he had been called Aramel the wrathful, as he turned his martial training on evil men and women across the land that he saw as a blight to be exterminated. Once he had been called Aramel the lost, as he traveled the land in search of truth, asking all he encountered to help with his plight, but finding few answers. Once he had been called Aramel the pious, while he served many years as a cleric in a temple of Illmatar, offering relief from suffering and healing for all... The memories of these past lives, fluttered away as quickly as they came, and his thoughts returned to the present. Now he is called Aramel the Righteous, for he serves as a Saint of Illmatar and carries the teaching of his lord across the land, helping all in need and offering soothing healing to those who have been afflicted with pain or injury. He is still poor, for he owns little other than his old robe and a walking stick. He is still wrathful when undeniable evil shows its face. He is still lost, as much as any man in this world is. He is still pious, serving his master to death if that is his call. Above all he is righteous, a man given power by the gods who walks an illuminated path of virtue, from which he never strays. ___________________ As Aramel approaches the Guild of Pure Good, he knocks on the front door and, hearing no response, enters the guild hall. Seeing the torn and broken figure of Thasis the Good lying in his chair, Aramel rushes to him, places his hands over some of the wounds, and prays to Illmatar. "Hear my prayer broken one. Give me power to ease the suffering of this one." With that a bright light spreads over the body of Thasis the Good, closing many of his wounds (as a heal spell). Edit: If these actions don't work for some reason thasis, just let me know.
Demonfey 10-17-05, 11:51 PM	Aw, and I had just found a stick... :(
thasis 10-18-05, 12:40 AM	Sweet character Gabrion. I shall think this is going to be intressting.
gabrion 10-18-05, 01:00 AM	Sweet character Gabrion. I shall think this is going to be intressting. Thx. I haven't posted him in the Character thread yet, but he's an Monkish Apostle of Peace. Does Thasis the Good recover when the heal spell is administered (I'm not sure what you had in mind for his injuries)?
premier666 10-18-05, 07:05 AM	Thx. I haven't posted him in the Character thread yet, but he's an Monkish Apostle of Peace. Does Thasis the Good recover when the heal spell is administered (I'm not sure what you had in mind for his injuries)? Apostle of peace hmmm? Well gabrion, take a look at the meta-thread. They are discssing the apostle of peace as we speak.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-05, 09:48 AM	(Reference: Ibris Mortis The Book of the Undead p. 12 [see entry on Compassion]) Aha! A discussion about Good versus Evil and the Undead! Who says a Vampire is kind or trustworthy. As Aramel channels the Healing power of Life Giving and Life Affirming Lore, you see the body of thasis immolated in an aura. Suddenly, Silmarien appears before Aramel, a spectral figure she is, immolated in transluscent silvery-blue fires. "Greetings Aramel! Hail and Well Met!. The sounds of discussion about whether or not the Undead can love find her, and suddenly, her attention focuses upon you. "The Lore of the Vampire" she muses, before a look of repugnance crosses her brow "Let us see what Libris Mortis tells us of this Lore". You see The Library of Peredhil Halls, again, and the twinkling life-affirming light of the Silverstarfire lanterns. As the glow falls upon the ancient pages, the cold breeze blows upon the pages, turning them, and the ancient silvery runes flare to life, before your eyes. Libris Mortis - Compassion and the Undead Her fingers run over the page, pointing to a particular excerpt of text. She incants, and suddenly the magnification of the scrying portal is increased, and words from the page jump out at you. Compassion is about choice. When someone is perceived as compassionate, that person has made a series of choices. Mindless Undead are unable to make such a choice, but the Lore of Sentient Undead and compassion is a different question. Plainly, the choice to be compassionate is not something most intelligent undead consider. In many cases, the event that animated a particular undeadd is such a transforming experience that it imprints the new undead in its image. And in almost every case, that event is generated from an evil impulse or action. But is something truly evil if it doesn't consider the consequences of its actions? Yes, of course, but consider evil for evil's sake--the ability to recognise that actions taken will cause horror, ruin, and death, but to take those actions anyway. Most intelligent Undead reatain enough memory of their former lives to know that their acts are horrendous. Some may even feel pangs of guilt, even going so far as to capriciosly allow surviving victims to go free. This act becomes more likely if the undead is a feeder that has recently fed on its preferered morsel. However, when the hungermounts again, as it must, the Undead may curse its generosity, again seeking out those it previously allowed to escape. For other undead with the ability to "feel," it is an easier burden to bear if they mentally detach themselves from their former lives. These Undead cannot feel empathy for would-be victims because they no longer feel a kinship. To these Undead, the living are now the prey, and the Undead the predators. Just as wolves take down weak and old herd beasts, so too can Undead prey upon the living, simply fulfiklling their role in the "natural" order of life.... Silmarien brisquely closes the Tome, and looks out to your scrying portal. She says with careful attention to pronunciation: "We are their food, not their company. To be enslaved by their ravenous greed and through their feeding of our Lifeforce. We exist, in their eyes, to service their need. An object only we are for their need. And no will of your own, if you are enslaved. Just a servant of an Undead master. However, Good Undead may not be, but their equivalent from the Holy Plane is another matter.....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-05, 09:54 AM	She looks at you again, with an imploring gaze. Her finger moves back up the page, and she amplifies the text, another two-fold, bringing your attention to a particular piece of text. "See, here!" However, when the hunger mounts again, as it must, the Undead may curse its generosity, again seeking out those it previously allowed to escape. For other undead with the ability to "feel," it is an easier burden to bear if they mentally detach themselves from their former lives. These Undead cannot feel empathy for would-be victims because they no longer feel a kinship. To these Undead, the living are now the prey, and the Undead the predators. Just as wolves take down weak and old herd beasts, so too can Undead prey upon the living, simply fulfilling their role in the "natural" order of life.... "without compassion and without a care for your pleas and begging to live. No heed for your love of your family, for your plea for your sister's life. No care for mercy. No heed for kindness."
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-05, 10:25 AM	Disruptive Aura Abjuration Level: Good, 6 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Touch Target: One Living Creature Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Yes Spell Resistance: Yes Description Upon casting this spell, the Cleric opens a portal to the Positive Material Plane, allowing the subject to be immolated in hallowed radiance. For the duration of the spell, the subject is surrounded by Holy fires that, to an Undead, threaten its very sinew. The spell is of the same kind of energy as Disruptive Weapon (5th level spell), except, the Aura surrounds the caster, not the weapon. When Undead of Hit Dice equal to or lower than the Level of the Caster strike the flesh of a subject protected by Disruptive Aura, with a touch attack, or melee weapon, burning Holy fires invade the Undead, disrupting the negative energy that holds Undead flesh together. The Undead must make a successful Will save (DC=10+Spell Level+Ability Adjustment), every time contact is made with the Disruptive Aura or be utterly destroyed. The spell was developed by Silimna and the Drow of Eilistraee in their struggle to rid the Prime Material Plane of the Temple of the Damned in Tyrannor.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-05, 10:28 AM	Comments: 1. Disruptive Weapon is a 5th level spell, and Undead must make a Will Save every time they are struck by a cleric's blade. 2. For Disruptive Aura, not sure if direct contact is required - i.e. touch - and not just contact with Melee Weapon (I'm thinking of Fireshield here). 3. I've set the level of spell to 6th. 4. Don't know what to do about the possibility of Touch Attacks. That is, the way it is, if you touch or are touched by an undesirable sort (e.g. a Vampire) the spell gives you protection. Comments Welcome! stav
Sargatanas 10-18-05, 11:01 AM	I think you are taking this a little overboard just to beat me. Why not just use the spells in the wizards books rather than building a while new arsenal of anti-undead spells. It seems desperate. On another note, yes there can be good undead. The archlich is a perfect example of that, and you can't argue because theres an elf one in there too, and elves are always right. :rolleyes: Also, there ARE positive energy undead, they're called deathless.
jagggar 10-18-05, 11:28 AM	"Oh, but they're not really undead. They're good, so they can't be undead!" Not having too many details on the deathless other than being fueled by positive energy, I think they're pointless. I think my main complaint about the spells SilStav is creating is that they're all 'Good X.' That requires altering two domain spells and creating new domains is much better than altering existant ones. Besides, there's no reason that non-good shouldn't be allowed to access the spells. There's nothing inherently good about them. Homebrew deity is evil but absolutely hates undead because they break the laws of nature. Hence, all his followers are ordered to destory undead on sight. It just doesn't make sense for his clerics to rebuke the undead, so they channel positive engery in those respects. There's no reason that his followers shouldn't have access to anti-undead spells as well.
Sargatanas 10-18-05, 12:06 PM	"Oh, but they're not really undead. They're good, so they can't be undead!" Not having too many details on the deathless other than being fueled by positive energy, I think they're pointless. I think my main complaint about the spells SilStav is creating is that they're all 'Good X.' That requires altering two domain spells and creating new domains is much better than altering existant ones. Besides, there's no reason that non-good shouldn't be allowed to access the spells. There's nothing inherently good about them. Homebrew deity is evil but absolutely hates undead because they break the laws of nature. Hence, all his followers are ordered to destory undead on sight. It just doesn't make sense for his clerics to rebuke the undead, so they channel positive engery in those respects. There's no reason that his followers shouldn't have access to anti-undead spells as well. They're being made just for Silimna, who has the good domain. Thats why they're all good X
thasis 10-18-05, 12:15 PM	My characters is still badly injured but I'm thinking he can be awakned. He's more sleeping now.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-05, 06:34 PM	Hi everyone, okay, first, we've got the Book of Exalted Deeds and Book of Vile Darkness. The PHB, & Libris Mortis - an entire Tome filled specifically with ways to buff Undead. Atropal Scions, and a host of other new mosters and concepts. It's a ghoulish *wave of nausea* Tome filled with 1,000 ways to Unmake the Living. I don't know of a Tome Called Hallowed Faiths or Powers of the Holy or It's a great opportunity to create something of the scope and dimension you see on a D&D bookstore, and that's exactly what I'm going to do! :) PrCs, Spells, Feats, Skills, Spell-Like Abilities, Supernatural Powers, Magic Items, Artifacts and Major Artifacts that channel power from the Positive Material Plane This is the Guild of Pure Good! Regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-05, 06:41 PM	I think my main complaint about the spells SilStav is creating is that they're all 'Good X.'. Something that channels energy from the Positive Material Plane can be handled by anything non-Evil, I think. @All I forgot something new monsters/creatures filled with energy from the Positive Material Plane Perhaps we need a term for a new cluster of creatures from that realm. We have Undead - we have Living, but we don't have "hyper-living". Perhaps the new term/descriptor Vibrant Might do it. But, if you have a better idea, please let us all know :) A vibrant creature is one that channels from the Positive Material Plane and would get Supernatural Abilities, and modifications to Metabolism, and a host of other concepts/descriptors befitting of something that is literally Living Life Force. regards stav These things are but legends. The Celestials go some way to this Lore, but "Vibrant" creatures I have seen spoken of, and know nothing about
gabrion 10-18-05, 07:02 PM	Sil, Here's something really fun and (IMO) intriguing for you... Check out page 211 of MMIII. They list an ability there called "energy charge," which is pretty much the opposite of energy drain. The thing that is relly mysterious about it is that if you search through MMI, MMII, MMIII, and any other WotC product you won't find a single creature with this ability! Well at least I haven't been able to... There was an old creature that got rejected from publication in a dragon magazine that had the ability though. It was a genie with the following stats... GENIE Genies are humanlike beings who dwell on the elemental planes. They are famous for their strength, guile, and skill with illusion magic. The genies presented here are ammids. Combat Genies prefer to outmaneuver and outthink their foes. They are not too proud to flee if it means they’ll live to fight another day. If trapped, they bargain, offering treasure or favors in return for their lives and freedom. Plane Shift (Sp): A genie can enter any of the elemental planes, the energy planes, the Astral Plane, or the Material Plane. This ability transports the genie and up to eight other creatures, provided they all link hands with the genie. It is otherwise similar to the spell of the same name (caster level 13th). Telepathy (Su): A genie can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language. Ammid Large Outsider (Extraplanar) Hit Dice: 8d8+48 (84 hp) Initiative: +8 Speed: 20 ft., fly 40 ft. (perfect) AC: 19 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +6 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 15 Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+18 Attack: Slam +14 melee (1d8+7 plus energy charge) or searing light +11 ranged touch (5d8) Full Attack: 2 slams +14 melee (1d8+7 plus energy charge) or searing light +11 ranged touch (5d8) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: Energy charge, positive energy immunity, spell-like abilities Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 feet, plane shift, resistance to acid 5, resistance to fire 5, resistance to electricity 5, telepathy 100 feet Saves: Fort +12, Ref +10, Will +8 Abilities: Str 25, Dex 19, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 17 Skills: Appraise +2 (+4 with craft specialty), Bluff +14, Concentration +17, Craft (any one) +13, Diplomacy +7, Disguise +3 (+5 acting), Escape Artist +15, Knowledge (religion) +13, Intimidate +16, Listen +13, Move Silently +15, Sense Motive +13, Spot +13, Use Rope +4 (+6 with bindings) Feats: Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Improved Initiative (B) Environment: Positive Energy Plane (or Irian, the Eternal Day; or the Heroic Domains of Ysgard) Organization: Solitary, company (2-4), band (6-15), or hunting party (6-15 plus 2-4 nobles plus 5-10 vivacious dire wolves) Challenge Rating: 7 Treasure: Double standard Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 9-12 HD (Large); 13-24 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: +6 This enormous muscular being has skin that is black like wrought iron and a beard as white as pearl. Its head is bald except for two rows of short pearly horns that start above each eyebrow and march over the peak of its head and down its back. The creature's eyes lack pupils. It stands tall, proud, and noble, and the air around it shimmers and pulses with invisible otherworldly energy, like a heat wave or perhaps a subsonic vibration. This being appears dangerous and fearless. The ammids are genies from the Positive Energy Plane. Ammids are said to be made of iron mixed with congealed positive energy. They are gathered into fiercely independent bands each led by an ataman or hetman. Ammids are usually an introverted race, and they prefer not to meddle in the affairs of others, even other groups of ammids. Ammids like to spend their time basking in the positive energy of their home plane. Ammids live in iron fortresses on that plane. Ammids also enjoy testing themselves against the sting of energy from acid baths, fiery saunas, freezing lakes, electrical storms, and extreme decibel levels (loud noises). Ammids often build rooms in their fortresses which facilitate the testing and experiencing of these kinds of energies. Because of the positive energy trait of their home plane, ammids at home heal damage very quickly. Ammids organize great hunting parties to hunt all kinds of creatures across the Positive Energy Plane, especially exotic and dangerous creatures. Ammids have skin the color of wrought iron, and their heads are usually bald. Male ammids grow long beards, which can be any color, but are most often either black or white. All ammids have two rows of white horns protruding from their heads, starting above the eyebrows and forming parallel lines that run from front to back. The frontmost horns are the largest, and males sport larger, thicker horns than females. Female ammids tend to have their horns partly covered by their white hair. Some older, larger ammids also have horns or bone plates protruding from their shoulders, upper arms, and wrists. An advanced ammid gains +1 natural armor for every 2 additional outsider HD. An ammid stands about 11 feet tall and weighs about 1,700 pounds. Ammids speak Common, Irial, and Ignan. Combat Spell-Like Abilities: At will—blindness/deafness (DC 15), cure serious wounds (DC 16), daylight, detect undead, obscuring mist, searing light; 3/day—heal (DC 19), persistent image (DC 18); 1/day—create food and water, gaseous form, haste (self only, lasts up to 1 hour), major creation (created vegetable matter is permanent). Caster level 11th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. Energy Charge (Su): An ammid can bestow vital energy at a touch; this happens automatically when the ammid’s slam attack hits. An ammid cannot turn off this ability, and it applies even to its enemies. Each successful energy charge bestows one positive level on living creatures. These positive levels stack. The ammid loses 5 hit points for each positive level it bestows. A creature may not have more positive levels than its Constitution bonus (minimum 1). An ammid is immune to its own energy charge ability, and the energy charge ability of other ammids. An affected creature gains a +1 competence bonus on all skill checks and ability checks, attack rolls, and saving throws, and gains one effective level or Hit Die (whenever level is used in a die roll or calculation) for each positive level. A spellcaster gains one spell slot of the highest level of spells she can cast and (if applicable) one prepared spell of that level. These gains persist until the positive level goes away. Positive levels remain for 24 hours or until removed with a spell, such as restoration. After 24 hours, the positive level automatically goes away. Undead react to positive levels the way nonundead react to negative levels. An undead character with negative levels at least equal to its current level is instantly destroyed. After 24 hours, an undead must make a Will save DC 17. The save DC is Charisma-based. If the saving throw succeeds, the positive level goes away with no harm to the creature. The afflicted creature makes a separate saving throw for each positive level it has gained. If the save fails, the positive level goes away, but the creature's level (or HD) is also reduced by one. Positive Energy Immunity (Ex): An ammid is immune to some of the effects of the major positive-dominant planar trait. An ammid does not risk blindness, and does not receive temporary hit points while on a positive-dominant plane. Ammids gain the full benefit of any fast healing extraordinary abilities bestowed by a positive-dominant plane. Noble Ammid Large Outsider (Extraplanar) Hit Dice: 12d8+72 (126 hp) Initiative: +8 Speed: 20 ft., fly 40 ft. (perfect) AC: 21 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +8 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 17 Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+25 Attack: Slam +21 melee (1d8+10 plus energy charge) or searing light +15 ranged touch (5d8) Full Attack: 2 slams +21 melee (1d8+10 plus energy charge) or searing light +15 ranged touch (5d8) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: Energy charge, positive energy immunity, spell-like abilities Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 feet, plane shift, resistance to acid 5, resistance to fire 5, resistance to electricity 5, telepathy 100 feet Saves: Fort +14, Ref +12, Will +10 Abilities: Str 30, Dex 19, Con 22, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 17 Skills: Appraise +2 (+4 with craft specialty), Bluff +20, Concentration +21, Craft (any one) +17, Diplomacy +7, Disguise +3 (+5 acting), Escape Artist +19, Knowledge (religion) +17, Intimidate +22, Listen +17, Move Silently +19, Sense Motive +17, Spot +17, Use Rope +4 (+6 with bindings) Feats: Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Endurance, Improved InitiativeB, Persuasive Environment: Positive Energy Plane (or Irian, the Eternal Day; or the Heroic Domains of Ysgard) Organization: Solitary, company (2-4), band (6-15), or hunting party (6-15 plus 2-4 nobles plus 5-10 vivacious dire wolves) Challenge Rating: 10 Treasure: Double standard Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 13-24 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: +8 Spell-Like Abilities: At will—blindness/deafness (DC 15), cure serious wounds (DC 16), daylight, detect undead, obscuring mist, searing light; 3/day—heal (DC 19), persistent image (DC 18); 1/day—create food and water, gaseous form, haste (self only, lasts up to 1 hour), major creation (created stone, crystal, base metals, and vegetable matter is permanent), wish (to nongenies only). Caster level 17th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. The Will DC for an undead creature to resist the negative level bestowed by the noble ammid's energy charge is 19. I thought I would post on the topic since it is from the positive energy plane and all (though it won't be of any use in the IFWG). PS, If anyone finds a creature with the energy charge ability, let me know.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-05, 07:07 PM	Gabrion, you are a star, thank you for posting that stuff, it's really great! *feet shuffle under desk* um - believe it or not I don't have MM-III - I only have MM V3. I must grab a copy, but, the entry looks very very interesting. Let me digest the materials and then, return with thoughts..... :) Kind Regards stavros
Blasphemous Revenant 10-18-05, 07:14 PM	I am not a member, but I feel compelled to speak. Libris Mortis is the book for fighting undead. Printing another book for this purpose would be redundant. The Positive Energy Plane is not a "Good" plane in any way. Evil characters can channel positive energy just as good characters can, and people can be killed by the nature of the Positive Energy Plane just like they can by the Negative Energy Plane.
thasis 10-18-05, 08:44 PM	I do agree with Blasphemous Reverant, Positive Energy is a neutrul energy, not a good one. Also, The Ammid Genie, LOVE IT! I have it favorited from the umbrassa graveyards. I'm an ex-member of the Umbrassa Graveyards and I have that favorited for the original boards.
jagggar 10-18-05, 09:29 PM	I see a positive energy monster which bestows cancer upon its enemies. I mean, that is positive energy, right? For avoiding energy drain, there's the Shadow Dragon or half-shadow dragon.
thasis 10-19-05, 12:35 AM	Thasis the Good opens his eyes. He seems to be disoriented and panicked. He then grabs at his heart and doubles over in pain. He looks up and says "I am back..."
jagggar 10-19-05, 01:01 AM	So, look at the number of posts here, and the number of posts at the second GoUE. Does this say something about good and evil? About the players we have here? I mean, really. . . Say, to get us talking. . . How do you feel about 'ravages'? I think that's what they're called. From what I've heard of them, they're like poisons, but they only effect evil creatures. Are they really something a good person would use?
gabrion 10-19-05, 01:08 AM	When Thasis the good awakens and jolts in pain, he sees the figure of a wizened old man standing over him. The face holds a warm and comforting smile, but at the same time seems to share the pain Thasis the good is bearing. The man wears a worn travelling outfit of a light green hue. A staff lies beside him and a holy symbol hangs over his neck showing the symbol of Illmatar, but other than these few things he carries nothing else with him. The man leans closer and begins a prayer to Illmatar. "You my lord have taken on the plight of many who suffered and I would ask that you do the same for this man. The pain that wracks this man is not natural and I ask that you grant me, your humble servant, the power to help him." A glowing light surrounds the man as he speaks and he once again places his hands over Thasis the good, spreading healing light over his body. "I know not who you are, but I am Aramel and I have come to this place at the bidding of Illmatar to help the forces of good. I do not know if you serve the light, but that question can wait until your injuries are healed. Can you tell me the nature of your wounds so that I might better help you?"
gabrion 10-19-05, 01:10 AM	So, look at the number of posts here, and the number of posts at the second GoUE. Does this say something about good and evil? About the players we have here? I mean, really. . . The dark side calls... Say, to get us talking. . . How do you feel about 'ravages'? I think that's what they're called. From what I've heard of them, they're like poisons, but they only effect evil creatures. Are they really something a good person would use? Well I think most good characters would be ok with it as long as they knew that it would only affect evil creatures. The kind of good creature that is really into redemption prolly wouln't though, since they would rather talk to the evil guy and get him to repent instead of "poisoning" him.
jagggar 10-19-05, 02:01 AM	Reducing good to defeating evil is just so. . . So . . . It's not even sophmoric! Neutral can kill off evil. Even evil can kill off evil. (And I'm honestly confused about how all the evil guys are getting along. I mean, look at the bickering over a set of armor over at the Keep.) Shouldn't good be doing something more than just killing evil off?
gabrion 10-19-05, 02:59 AM	Shouldn't good be doing something more than just killing evil off? Well sure. I mean in a good person's ideal world, they don't have to kill off evil, since there isn't any. However, when they do encounter evil the reaction of a good character should be to either change the evil to good or destroy it. In some situations (fiends and undead in D+D for example), it is fair to just use the second course of action.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 07:32 AM	I see a positive energy monster which bestows cancer upon its enemies. I mean, that is positive energy, right? For avoiding energy drain, there's the Shadow Dragon or half-shadow dragon. + Reducing good to defeating evil is just so. . . So . . . It's not even sophmoric! Yes, *smiles* it's not sophomoric, it's d&d-ic. Morality, good, evil and neutrality mean different things on Earth, as someone pointed out above. In the D&D Universe, alignment is a motivational engine. I'm drawn to Starwars at this point, in Anakin's comment to Obewan: Anakin: from where I stand, the Jedi are evil Obewan: then you really are lost Trying to argue that a Jedi is Evil (who draws on the Light side of the force) is what we say is 'semantic'. *looks at reader - *smiles* - means like 'you can argue it, technically, but in doing so, a different truth is obscured/lost). @all It's a very interesting discussion, here. What I'm going to do, next post is a. quote alignments from Libris Mortis b. quote some materials about the positive and negative material planes and then c. talk about what we mean by the Good Cleric domain (and also, by contrast, the Evil domain). stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 08:00 AM	okay @thasis yes - the Positive and Negative (Energy) Planes are not, themselves aligned. :) This is true but.... @all From Libris Mortis. I went through the monster list and summarised alignment stats. There are some errors, my apologies. 19 Always Chaotic Evil 1 Usually Chaotic Evil 10 Always Neutral Evil 5 Usually Neutral Evil 8 Always Lawful Evil 4 Usually Neutral 1 Always Evil (any) So, in summary, creatures that draw energy from the Negative material plane are typically (but not always) evil. Similarly, creatures that draw energy from the Positive material plane are typically (but not always) good. So - what's going on? Next post, some materials from PHB and Libris Mortis on the area.... regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 08:13 AM	Positive Energy Plane, [Reference: DMG, p. 157] The Positive Energy Plane is best compared to the heart of a star. It is a continual furnace of creation, a domain of brilliance beyond the ability of mortal eyes to comprehend. Its very being wavers and rippples as new matter and energy is born and swells to full power like a bursting fruit. It is a vibrant plane, so alive with itself that travelers themselves are empowered by visiting it. The Positive Energy Plane has no surface and is akin to the Elemntal Plane of Air with its wise-open nature. However, every bit of this plane glows brightly with innate power. This power is dangerous to mortal forms, which are not made to handle it. Despite the beneficial effects of the plane, it is one of the most hostile of the Inner Planes. An unprotected character on this plane swells with power as a positive energy is force-fed into her. Then, her mortal flame unable to contain tha tpower, she immolates as if she were a small planet caught at the edge of a supernova. Visits to the Positive Energy Plane are brief, and even then travelers must be heavily protected. The Positive Energy Plane has the following traits. Subjective directoional gravity. Major positive-domnant. Some regions of the plane have the minor positive-dominant trait instead, and those islands tend to be inhabited. Enhanced magic. Spells and sepll-like abilities that use positive energy, including cure spells, are maximised (as if the Maximise Spell metamagic feat had been used on them, but the spells don't require higher-level slots). Spellls and spell-like abilities that are already maximised are unaffected by this benefit. Class abilities that use postive energy, such as turning and destorying undead, gain a +10 bonus on the roll to determine Hit Dice affected. (Undead are almost impossible to find on this plane, however.) Impeded magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use negative energy (including inflict spells) are impeded. (bold-face not in original) The description goes on to describe an 'island' of a minor positive-dominance - Ysgard - which has a "riotous explosion of life in all its forms. All individuals on a positve-dominant plane gain fast healing 2 and may even regrow lost limbs in time. Additionally, those slain in the never-ending conflicts on Ysgard's fields of battle rise each morning as if true resurrection had been cast on them, fully healed and ready to fight anew.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 08:20 AM	Good Domain Spells Protection From Evil Aid Magic Circle against Evil Holy Smite* Dispel Evil Blade Barrier Holy Word Holy Aura* Summons Monster IX Evil Domain Spells Protection From Good Desecrate* Magic Circle against Good Unholy Blight Dispel Good Create Undead* Blasphemy Unholy Aura* Summons Monster IX * - denotes spells that channel from either Positive or Negative Energy Planes
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 08:29 AM	Summary Post Summary of Alignments for Undeads from Libris Mortis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7537977&postcount=119). They're mostly but not exclusively evil. 19 Always Chaotic Evil; 1 Usually Chaotic Evil; 10 Always Neutral Evil; 5 Usually Neutral Evil; 8 Always Lawful Evil; 4 Usually Neutral; 1 Always Evil (any); Important Information about the Positive Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538024&postcount=120); Cleric Good and Evil Domain Spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538053&postcount=121) Argument Whilst the Energy Planes are not, themselves aligned, Undead are infused with Negative Energy and are usually evil. Conversely, whilst the Postive Energy plane is not itself, inherently Good its energy destroys Undead (see Positoxins). Whilst not all Cleric Domain spells draw on Positive energy (for the Good Domain spells) or Negative energy (for the Evil Domain spells), Good clerics may not use spells with the Evil descriptor and vice-versa. Thus, a question remains about exactly what Holy and Unholy actually are.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 08:46 AM	Hallowed be thine name May the Divine fill the Spirit with Life and Health Grace be with you and guide your feet Aid the sick, heal the weary, give to the poor Give of your heart freely and without despite Hold faith in Kindness, for without it what are we Seven incandescent Silverstarfire runes erupt into life. They form a circle, about 20 yards in diameter, suspended in the airs. The giant circle is filled with roaring silveryblue fires, and Silimna stands before this suspended energy field. Suddenly, the field's magic becomes coherent opening a vision to another dimension and Silmarien appears on one side of the device. She stares out to this world from another dimension. Behind her is Peredhil Halls library. But before her stands Silimna, in this world - thus the two first cousins stand face to face. Silmarien's silveryblond hair, piercing green eyes and pale skin contrasts with Silimna's silverywhite hair, which is darker than a Drow's want, but lighter than Silimarien's hair. Silimna's dark skin, yet paler than a Drow's and her green eyes greet her cousin's. "Hurry Silimna!" Silmarien incants, and Libris Mortis appears in the Vision. I have found the Lore of the Positoxin." The complex alchemical formulae stare out at you hinting at wild possibilities. "You must find one skilled with Alchemy to make these things. They are anathema to Undead and may save you when Unlife would seek to steal your soul. Hurry! Rh'iel and Eilistraee guide thine footsteps! Hurry!" The Portal between worlds closes and Silimna greets the newcomer.....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 09:04 AM	@jagggar there's no doubt that in our world, shades of grey are everything. It's hard to know what 'right' and 'wrong' are or what 'good' and 'evil' are. Many acts of callous, inhumanity have been perpetrated in the name of 'goodness'. And many acts considered "immoral" may have conscience and generosity at their heart, but are considered 'wrong'. What I can say as a shrink is that empathy, compassion and human kindness tend to operate to prevent bloodshed, mayhem and madness. As does humour. @all Here's a quote I found, to get us all thinking about this "So often activism is based on what we are against, what we don't like, what we don't want. And yet we manifest what we focus on. And so we are manifesting yet ever more of what we don't want, what we don't like, what we want to change. There's a warning in that wisdom to us, if you look closely. In our world, I think it can be summarised as you become what you hate. On Alignment, D&D, Libris Mortis and Our New Tome Hallowed Faiths-Powers of the Holy It's also true that D&D with the positive-dominant descriptor can be "hostile" (to quote from DMG) and threatening to life. And, likewise, not all things that draw on negative energy are evil. Likewise, not all evil beings are always evil. And no good being is always good, not even in D&D. But, it's very hard to argue (in D&D) that evil is safe, that evil is trustworthy, that evil is friendly in the sincere sense of the word. Similarly, whist the Positive Energy plane can burn you up, in a flash, the same plane is the wellspring of all life in the D&D Universe. It is the place where creation is. That leaves us with a question, though: What does it mean to be Holy, in D&D, and 'where' does Holy Power come from?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 09:10 AM	And, just in case you missed it What does it mean to be Holy and where in D&D does Holy power come from? And - monsters, Classes PrCs, spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural powers, feats, skills .....incoming for the Tome Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy. Libris Mortis is light on on powers from the PEP. It's mostly stuff from the NEP. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 09:25 AM	@Gabrion Nice RP. Silimna's waiting on your lead, before proceeding. regards stav
thasis 10-19-05, 01:41 PM	Thasis the Good looks up to Aramel. He seems to still have pain in his eyes, but not a physical pain, but an emotional pain "Thank you kind sir. Your generosity is greatly aprieciated. My name is Thasis the Good. I am the founder of this here good guild. I have returned from a long journey it seems. I do not remember my arrival however, which is rather strange. I welcome you into my halls for any period of time you wish to stay"
Blasphemous Revenant 10-19-05, 02:37 PM	Good Domain Spells Protection From Evil Aid Magic Circle against Evil Holy Smite* Dispel Evil Blade Barrier Holy Word Holy Aura* Summons Monster IX Evil Domain Spells Protection From Good Desecrate* Magic Circle against Good Unholy Blight Dispel Good Create Undead* Blasphemy Unholy Aura* Summons Monster IX * - denotes spells that channel from either Positive or Negative Energy Planes I apologize if I offend, but I disagree with this. The only spells that channel positive or negative energy are Aid, Desecrate, and Create Undead. The other spells that you marked with an asterisk (*) don't mention positive or negative energy in their descriptions. And Aid isn't even a Good spell, although it's on the Good domain. The Good spells and their Evil counterparts channel divine power from their deity, which gives it Good or Evil properties. While a handful of Evil spells deal with negative energy (all of them pertaining to undead), I have never found a Good spell that channeled positive energy. Good clerics are better at channeling positive energy, as reflected by their Turn Undead ability and spontaneous cure spells. Evil clerics are better at channeling negative energy, as reflected by their Rebuke Undead ability and spontaneous inflict spells. However, positive and negative energy are not Good or Evil at all in nature. Good clerics can still use inflict spells, and Evil clerics can still use cure. Evil can use positive energy almost as well as Good, and vice-versa.
gabrion 10-19-05, 02:56 PM	@Gabrion Nice RP. Silimna's waiting on your lead, before proceeding. regards stav Just to be sure I have it right before porceeding, Silimna shows up as Aramel is leaning over Thasis the Good trying to heal him, right? Just wanted to make sure I have things in order.
Blasphemous Revenant 10-19-05, 03:28 PM	To quickly answer the question "What is Holy? Where does it come from?" in case you got lost in the mass of words in my above post: Holy and Unholy come from the deities. Good and Evil come from the deities. In my mind, alignments are emulations of the outsiders, as much as the elements are emulations of the elemental planes. There is no Elemental Plane of Good because Good and Evil are natural unchanging laws of the multiverse.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 06:05 PM	Just to be sure I have it right before porceeding, Silimna shows up as Aramel is leaning over Thasis the Good trying to heal him, right? Just wanted to make sure I have things in order. Hi there Gabrion, yes, :) regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 06:12 PM	Hi there Blasphemous_Scarything, ;) First this post is just about the asterix stuff, and next one about the what of Holiness. "I apologise if I offend..." okay, no problem and thank you for the kind words. :) As long as an opinion is offered without hostility, it's great to have the views on the thread! That's what we're here for. I enjoy discussions where there's a point that's unclear, it makes for a good (pun intended) learning curve for us all, I think. the spells marked were PEP or NEP energy spells..... *sees comments about spell lists* *muses to self, hmm, wonder if I got it a bit wrong* *grabs PHB* *turns page.... p. 218, for Desecrate "This spell imbues an area with negative energy....." and, erm, for Create Undead, you need the energy from from the NEP, and, um I was in doubt about Holy and Unholy Auras. Reading the descriptions, it's the "A brilliant divine radiance surrounds the subjects" - which I read as "light and life" - PEP - but it's not a "for sure" analysis. :)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 06:18 PM	On the 'What is' of Holy and Unholy Power, Energy or Being-ness Opinion 1: Holy and Unholy originate in Deities' Auras and are external 'energies' from the gods that 'imbue' the Planes; @Bl._R. Lemme know if I didn't summarise that as you meant it. @all I believe that's a possibility and a reasonable thought (see Table of dot points). But, I've been pondering if the NEP isn't of itself, evil, why do things that use it, often get the Evil descriptor? regards stav
gabrion 10-19-05, 06:29 PM	Seeing the dark skin of the elf who had just appeared, Aramel places his body between Thasis the Good and the drow-kin. She didn't seem hostile and he hated to think of all the dark-skinned elfs as evil, but with the injured man before him he wasn't willing to take a chance. If she meant harm, better for it to fall on him than this other man. He turns to the elf and speaks in a calm and almost grandfatherly tone. "I do not know you or why you have come, but if it concerns harming this man behind me I beg you to leave. He has suffered wounds to the soul from which the recovery will be hard and I promise you I will protect him from further harm. If you are here for another reason and mean no harm, then I hope my greeting has not offended you. I am Aramel, servant of Illmatar and newcommer to this place, and I would learn your name and purpose here if you would be kind enought to speak it."
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 06:33 PM	@Gabrion excellent! @all the post was exactly what a really good RPer actually does. It's not 'bending' or distorting alignment motivations. It's not breaking rules about meeting new kin. And, there's a lot of reasons to be very wary of the Drow. Response, next post.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 06:40 PM	Silimna muses to herself Ai! Verily mine kindred have earned the suspicion of the Living who are Good. For great acts of wrong have the Drow perpetrated against the innocent. Silimna reaches a hand out, and carefully gestures to Aramel, getting his attention, then, directing his attention to her eyes. They are filled with sadness. She studies his face, and she can see the suspicion on his brow, in his eyes, in the tightness of his face muscles and she can hear it in his vocal tones. But she is no stranger to it. And, Silimna is a kind woman, who knows how compassion and the human heart work. I must show this man that I may be trusted, first and foremost "My people have abused the living for aeons. I am ashamed of them. I understand your suffering, for, despite mine body and its shape, colour and size, I have been abused by the Drow as well. Aramel, I am a Cleric of Eilistraee" She gets out her holy Symbol and shows it to Aramel and says a quiet prayer Holy Eilistraee, bearer of Hope for mine people Fill my heart with Faith that I may find the courage to confront Darkness
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-05, 06:48 PM	@Premier, your in-box is full....
Blasphemous Revenant 10-19-05, 07:11 PM	You summarized my post fairly accurately. I see positive and negative energy as tools more than anything else. Although Evil is more adept at manipulating negative energy than positive energy, this is a trait of Evil, not negative energy. I think this is intended to illustrate the ideal that Good is better at creating and Evil is better at destroying, but Good and Evil are capable of both (Paladins are skilled at destroying Evil, and Evil clerics are still just as good at resurrecting).
Demonfey 10-19-05, 07:15 PM	Strange how no one cares about the known GoUE member looting the building and suddenly gets protective when someone different shows up... *Picks up set of keys Ah, well. Just as well, otherwise they'll beginning throwing drama at me. Let's see...room key, room key...Vault key... :devil: If you look a couple pages back, I have Crowley going through the stuff.
gabrion 10-19-05, 10:01 PM	Strange how no one cares about the known GoUE member looting the building and suddenly gets protective when someone different shows up... *Picks up set of keys Ah, well. Just as well, otherwise they'll beginning throwing drama at me. Let's see...room key, room key...Vault key... :devil: If you look a couple pages back, I have Crowley going through the stuff. Lol...my apologies, I wasn't sure who Crowley was or exactly what he was doing. Is he standing right where we can see? I kinda asssumed back when you said he was randomly searching the place that he would be in another room or something.
Demonfey 10-19-05, 10:03 PM	Yeah, he's standing right in plain sight. You saw him on the way in, looting the main room. :D
gabrion 10-19-05, 10:08 PM	What does he look like (cause I'm too lazy to find him on the character thread).
Demonfey 10-19-05, 10:13 PM	This is my advisor NPC, who just pops in at random guilds, mostly because he's kind of amicable and currently has many bodies. This is one of his elemental bodies here. I think he's been classified as "relatively harmless", due to being the guy I send to do stuff like try and negotiate peace between two warring guilds (tried it with the GoUE and HEF earlier).
premier666 10-19-05, 11:10 PM	@SIL Oddily enough, my PM box was not full, it had only 15 messages. Anyway, I cleaned it now.
jagggar 10-20-05, 12:34 AM	You summarized my post fairly accurately. I see positive and negative energy as tools more than anything else. Although Evil is more adept at manipulating negative energy than positive energy, this is a trait of Evil, not negative energy. I think this is intended to illustrate the ideal that Good is better at creating and Evil is better at destroying, but Good and Evil are capable of both (Paladins are skilled at destroying Evil, and Evil clerics are still just as good at resurrecting).Likewise, I would say it is for shadow vs. light. Light is often associated with revealing the truth and lie is one of the things evil often does. Learn to manipulate the shadows and you may hide your lies even better. On the PM thing, I as well recieved some "full" messages when it wasn't. I think it might have to do with how many you have from the sending person.
thasis 10-20-05, 01:02 AM	Thasis the Good looks up at Silmna "I welcome you here into my fair guild. I was a good friend of Silmarien and any relative is a friend of mine" he then turns to Aramel "I thank you for your willingness to protect me in my time of weakness. You will be honored in this guild as a great member".
Demonfey 10-20-05, 01:07 AM	'Scuse me, coming through. Which way to the vaults? To the left? Thank you...
thasis 10-20-05, 01:13 AM	Thasis the Good stares at this pathetic creature "Leave now before I attack you with the powers I do have"
Demonfey 10-20-05, 01:28 AM	Fine. I'll just keep your keys for that, then. *with that, he disappears, taking the keys to all the rooms and the key to the vault with him.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 05:52 AM	@demonfey :embarrass: - about the "looting" - thanks for the thumbs up - will post to it, shortly. On the PM thing, I as well recieved some "full" messages when it wasn't. I think it might have to do with how many you have from the sending person. :embarrass: + *smiles* *clears throat* says sshhhh ;) - high-security preps in progress + ;) *cracks* Sil-7-of-9-ian: attaining perfection requires careful, close attention to detail *pulls it together* @all be back soon to continue - what a pleasure it is to read this thread! I'm being taken out to dinner tunite! *chuckles* that hasn't happened for a while, and I'm really lookin' forward to it. @jagggar Hope your mom's doin' okay @all kind regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 09:13 AM	@Demonfey a non-IFG Guild structure, means I have to be, erm, creative in a reply. I.e., we got not building thingies at the GoPG (yet), so..... In metadimensional space, Silmarien stands before Crowley on Carcerai, the barren, fiery planet far far away. On Carcerai, A part of her feels disgust and another awe at the gruesome grafts Crowley has taken; he has a mishappen third eye in his forehead and one metal arm that is disproportionately larger than the other. As well as this, he has giant bat wings and is also known as Crowley the Mad for his mind is a prism of schisms and fragmented personalities. Silmarien remembers being told by Crowley that he is being held on Carecerai through a terrible Curse, somehow involving Asmodeus, the Arch Daemon. But, not ten seconds earlier, Silimna received word from Peredhil Halls about Libris Mortis and the lore of the Positoxin. And yet again, one of Crowley the Mad's Avatars is suddenly seeking to plunder, rape and pillage. But Silimna does not see or hear him. It is as though he is not before her. But suddenly, as she speaks with Ilkarin, a note appears in a flash of blue and silver. Dear Silimna, The Prism of Time makes it very difficult for me to explain what has happened. I cannot say very much, but you must know this much... suddenly, as you read, you trigger a spell contained on the page, and in a flash of cobolt-silver, perhaps a vision from some time and some place opens before you....or perhaps something else all together.... Upon entering, you see one of Crowley's many bodies going through the stuff there Hm...no, no good...holy, blech...paladin items...argh, why isn't there anything of USE here? it is Crowley the mad. Silimna raises an eyebrow and she says to herself he is mad--funny that, but I know not what this means!. The vision passes and the note appears again, before you This bit is not meant for Silimna, it is meant for *you*, whoever you are who is reading right now. No matter what you choose, no matter who you are, what you've been or who you will be, it is all as it is meant to be. This story requires that you be, exactly as you are. Not what you think you are, or know yourself to be, but what you truly are. For you are of Stardust, Hallowed as the Starshine and Sacred as the Weave. Crowley needs you. Silimna needs you. Ilmarin needs you, as does Blasphemous_Scarywhatsit. And thasis's fate is unknown. But Derby as well is here with us. You must have faith. Do not forget this. As you finish the note, the runes burn incandescent before you and across the gulf of dimensions, they burn indelibly into your mind....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 09:29 AM	On the 'What is' of Holy and Unholy Power, Energy or Being-ness Opinion 1: Holy and Unholy originate in Deities' Auras and are external 'energies' from the gods that 'imbue' the Planes (Blasphemous_Ravenheart); Opinion 2: Likewise, I would say it is for shadow vs. light. Light is often associated with revealing the truth and lie is one of the things evil often does. Learn to manipulate the shadows and you may hide your lies even better. (jagggy) @all Opinion 2 aligns (somewhat) with the idea of the PEP, because the PEP is equated with the idea of a "star" (and a star makes light). I really like metaphor 2, in opinion 2 (I also like Opinion 1 as well). Opinion 2 marries the idea of self-deception to darkness and evil. I'm drawn to Forgotten Realms materials, by association. Shadow Weave is not itself evil, but its patron deity is. Typically (but not always), evil spellcasters end up drawing on the Shadow Weave. The Void, pre-primordial nothingness, the Shadow of Mystra's psyche - ways posters have thought of Shadow Weave or Shar (the evil patron deity of the Shadow Weave). What actually happens to a person when they have an Evil or Good alignment? What energies do they create or channel around them? Is their Alignment a bunch of thoughts? Or is there alignment something else? Does their alignment change by their thinking, talking or behaviour? What if you can think evil but act good, or vice-versa? And, why do Evil beings typically channel energy from the NEP.......? I'll post the NEP from the DMG, and let's hava look......
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 09:44 AM	Negative Energy Plane, DMG, p. 157 The Negative Energy Plane is a barren, empty place, a void without end, and a place of empty, endless night. Worse, it is a needy, greedy plane, sucking the life out of anything that is vulnerable. Heat, fire, and life itself are all drawn into the maw of this plane, which always hungers for more. To an observer, there's little to see on the Negative Energy Plane. It is a dark, empty place, an eternal pit where a traveler can fall until the plane itself steals away all light and life. The Negative Energy Plane is the most hositle of the Inner planes, and the most uncaring and intolerant of life. Only creatures immune to its life-draining energies can survive there. The Negative Energy Plane has the following traits. Subjective directional dravity. Major negative-dominant. Some areas within the plane have only the minor negative-dominant trait, and these islands tend to be inhabited. Enhanced magic, Spells and spell-like abilities that use negative energy are maximised (as if the Maximise Spell metamagic feat had been used on them, but the spells don't require higher-level slots). Spells and spell-like abilities that are already maximised are unaffected by this benefit. Class abilities that use negative energy, such as rebuking and controlling undead, gain a +10 bonus on the roll to determine Hit Dice affected. Impeded magic, Spells and spell-like abilities that use positive energy, including cure spells, are impeded. Characters on this plane take a -10 penalty on Fortitude saving throws made to remove negative levels bestowed by an energy drain attack. The excerpt goes on to talk about "Voidstones" which are solid chunks of negative energy that act much like Spheres of Annihilation but give you a Fort save (DC=25) to resist. Nightwalkers apparently inhabit the plane.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 09:49 AM	Positive Energy Plane, [Reference: DMG, p. 157] The Positive Energy Plane is best compared to the heart of a star. It is a continual furnace of creation, a domain of brilliance beyond the ability of mortal eyes to comprehend. Its very being wavers and rippples as new matter and energy is born and swells to full power like a bursting fruit. It is a vibrant plane, so alive with itself that travelers themselves are empowered by visiting it. The Positive Energy Plane has no surface and is akin to the Elemntal Plane of Air with its wise-open nature. However, every bit of this plane glows brightly with innate power. This power is dangerous to mortal forms, which are not made to handle it. Despite the beneficial effects of the plane, it is one of the most hostile of the Inner Planes. An unprotected character on this plane swells with power as a positive energy is force-fed into her. Then, her mortal flame unable to contain tha tpower, she immolates as if she were a small planet caught at the edge of a supernova. Visits to the Positive Energy Plane are brief, and even then travelers must be heavily protected. The Positive Energy Plane has the following traits. Subjective directoional gravity. Major positive-domnant. Some regions of the plane have the minor positive-dominant trait instead, and those islands tend to be inhabited. Enhanced magic. Spells and sepll-like abilities that use positive energy, including cure spells, are maximised (as if the Maximise Spell metamagic feat had been used on them, but the spells don't require higher-level slots). Spellls and spell-like abilities that are already maximised are unaffected by this benefit. Class abilities that use postive energy, such as turning and destorying undead, gain a +10 bonus on the roll to determine Hit Dice affected. (Undead are almost impossible to find on this plane, however.) Impeded magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use negative energy (including inflict spells) are impeded. (bold-face not in original) The description goes on to describe an 'island' of a minor positive-dominance - Ysgard - which has a "riotous explosion of life in all its forms. All individuals on a positve-dominant plane gain fast healing 2 and may even regrow lost limbs in time. Additionally, those slain in the never-ending conflicts on Ysgard's fields of battle rise each morning as if true resurrection had been cast on them, fully healed and ready to fight anew.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 09:57 AM	Summary Post Summary of Alignments for Undeads from Libris Mortis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7537977&postcount=119). They're mostly but not exclusively evil. 19 Always Chaotic Evil; 1 Usually Chaotic Evil; 10 Always Neutral Evil; 5 Usually Neutral Evil; 8 Always Lawful Evil; 4 Usually Neutral; 1 Always Evil (any); Important Information about the Positive Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538024&postcount=120); Cleric Good and Evil Domain Spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538053&postcount=121); Important Information About the Negative Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7547405&postcount=153) Argument Whilst the Energy Planes are not, themselves aligned, Undead are infused with Negative Energy and are usually evil. Conversely, whilst the Postive Energy plane is not itself, inherently Good its energy destroys Undead (see Positoxins). Whilst not all Cleric Domain spells draw on Positive energy (for the Good Domain spells) or Negative energy (for the Evil Domain spells), Good clerics may not use spells with the Evil descriptor and vice-versa. Thus, a question remains about exactly what Holy and Unholy actually are. It would seem that need, greed, uncaring and intolerant of life characterise the Negative Energy Plane, even if "evil" does not. By contrast, it would seem that the heart of a star, furnace of creation, brilliance, birth of matter and energy, and vibrant characterise the Positive Energy Plane even if "good" does not. The exact relationship of the PEP and the NEP to good and evil remain unclear. Likewise, the distinction between "Holy" and Positive Energy on the one hand and "Unholy" and Negative Energy on the other remain unclear, as well.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 10:07 AM	Thasis the Good looks up at Silmna "I welcome you here into my fair guild. I was a good friend of Silmarien and any relative is a friend of mine" he then turns to Aramel "I thank you for your willingness to protect me in my time of weakness. You will be honored in this guild as a great member". Silimna gestures to thasis, her hands convey gratitude with a greeting wave, and her face registers her old friend. Her eyes are smiling, the green seems brighter suddenly, perhaps through a trick of sunshine, or perhaps it is joy you see. She nods, momentarily closing her eyes, before looking in earnest at thasis. She muses to herself this creatures Wydring is unknown to us. A three-fold creature he is. Returning to the moment, she says to thasis "the positoxins thasis! Hallowed living power from the Positive Energy plane. An alchemist I must find. But I have more to create with this Lore, for mine blood I would protect, more than mine weapon. The memory of the Vampire's bite fades slowly, for I was not seduced by the Darkness, for though bound in body by horrible cruel irons, my mind was my own and the Undead's fetid, cold breath was upon my flesh so that my skin crawled in disgust....."
Demonfey 10-20-05, 10:18 AM	@Demonfey a non-IFG Guild structure, means I have to be, erm, creative in a reply. I.e., we got not building thingies at the GoPG (yet), so..... In metadimensional space, Silmarien stands before Crowley on Carcerai, the barren, fiery planet far far away. On Carcerai, A part of her feels disgust and another awe at the gruesome grafts Crowley has taken; he has a mishappen third eye in his forehead and one metal arm that is disproportionately larger than the other. As well as this, he has giant bat wings and is also known as Crowley the Mad for his mind is a prism of schisms and fragmented personalities. Silmarien remembers being told by Crowley that he is being held on Carecerai through a terrible Curse, somehow involving Asmodeus, the Arch Daemon. But, not ten seconds earlier, Silimna received word from Peredhil Halls about Libris Mortis and the lore of the Positoxin. And yet again, one of Crowley the Mad's Avatars is suddenly seeking to plunder, rape and pillage. But Silimna does not see or hear him. It is as though he is not before her. But suddenly, as she speaks with Ilkarin, a note appears in a flash of blue and silver. Dear Silimna, The Prism of Time makes it very difficult for me to explain what has happened. I cannot say very much, but you must know this much... suddenly, as you read, you trigger a spell contained on the page, and in a flash of cobolt-silver, perhaps a vision from some time and some place opens before you....or perhaps something else all together.... it is Crowley the mad. Silimna raises an eyebrow and she says to herself he is mad--funny that, but I know not what this means!. The vision passes and the note appears again, before you This bit is not meant for Silimna, it is meant for *you*, whoever you are who is reading right now. No matter what you choose, no matter who you are, what you've been or who you will be, it is all as it is meant to be. This story requires that you be, exactly as you are. Not what you think you are, or know yourself to be, but what you truly are. For you are of Stardust, Hallowed as the Starshine and Sacred as the Weave. Crowley needs you. Silimna needs you. Ilmarin needs you, as does Blasphemous_Scarywhatsit. And thasis's fate is unknown. But Derby as well is here with us. You must have faith. Do not forget this. As you finish the note, the runes burn incandescent before you and across the gulf of dimensions, they burn indelibly into your mind.... Wait, what? My shtick is pillage and plunder. No rape. I prefer to kill those :censored: on sight. Also, the curse keeps me from completing a deal with Asmodeus made before any but the immortals here were born. *Turns to Silimna* Oh, by the way, what happened to those bands? They were on loan to Sargatanas, and the owner'd like them back.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 10:23 AM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99) 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519539&postcount=61) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 10:28 AM	Wait, what? My shtick is pillage and plunder. No rape. I prefer to kill those :censored: on sight. Also, the curse keeps me from completing a deal with Asmodeus made before any but the immortals here were born. *Turns to Silimna* Oh, by the way, what happened to those bands? They were on loan to Sargatanas, and the owner'd like them back. Silimna starts, hearing a ghostly sound on the breeze, and the sun dims momentarily. She smiles warily to herself at the mention of the cruel iron bands. She muses there was one benefit from my near scrape with death, and that is that the vile cage is in the keeping of the Drow of Eilistraee. She holds her Holy Symbol forth, marvelling at the beauty of it, for it is in the form of beautiful Eilistraee, dancing naked, with her long hair about her. For so is the goddesse's wish, to be portrayed thus by her Clerics....
Demonfey 10-20-05, 10:31 AM	Oh. Okay. That's where it is. Bye. *With that, Crowley once again disappears.*
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 10:32 AM	*sighs + wipes sweat off brow* that was a lot of work.....think....we're.....on.....track ......now....... *starts to nod off from exhaustion* @all Enjoy! See You Very Very Soon!
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 10:33 AM	Oh. Okay. That's where it is. Bye. *With that, Crowley once again disappears.* IN AN ANTIMAGIC FIELD, and warded by magical screens - heavily - just in case the Evil Ones get any ideas. *smiles warily* stav
Demonfey 10-20-05, 10:37 AM	Probably would help more if I didn't have the book with a spell that allows magic in an antimagic area. Besides, I won't steal it. I'll leave that to Ashariana, the original owner.
jagggar 10-20-05, 12:02 PM	Derby? Who's Derby? :P Actually, I'm a bad, bad person and didn't RP Darby leaving to head for Garshmal Keep. Oh yeah, and my mom's doing better. I'd actually say it's a good thing that the relationships between un/holy and +/- energy isn't crystal clear. It makes it so in one person's campaign holy and positive energy are linked with an unbreakable bond, while in another person's world you're just as likely to see an unholy/evil caster using positive energy as negative.
thasis 10-20-05, 12:51 PM	Thasis the Good looks at Silmna and says "IF you are looking for an alchemist you might have to consort with the ones of the Guild of Ultimate Evil for I do not have any alchemists under my service. I would not recomend dealing with them though, they are ones of darkness and are enemies". Thasis then grows a sad look in his eyes "I am tired and weak. I apreiciate your patience in dealing with me but I must rest now. I shall be back in a bit" he then walks down to his chambers.
Orcy The Green Wonder 10-20-05, 01:39 PM	A man bearing the symbol of the Knights Von Drache on his tunic enters the halls. He bears a scroll which he holds up before him and unrolls. Reading across it he looks up toward the guild members within. "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Guil of Pure Good. I have been sent by my Lord Arcanus to request an alliance between yourselves and the Knights Von Drache. Ghashmal Keep would benefit from your assistance, and you too would benefit from ours, at least this is our view on the matter."
thasis 10-20-05, 02:24 PM	Thasis is currently not here please leave a message after the tone *beep* :P Well my character is resting but I OoG agree to the concept. Everyone else agree?
gabrion 10-20-05, 05:39 PM	OoG I think it is an obvious and probably necessary alliance considering what is going on in the world. IG Aramel doesn't really know of the Knights, but if others in the GoPG give them a good name he won't have a problem. Speaking of Aramel, sorry I haven't been able to keep the RP (or posting in general) up for the last few days, but I've been really swamped. Will try to pick it up soon, but don't let me hold anything up. :)
premier666 10-20-05, 05:43 PM	Thasis is currently not here please leave a message after the tone *beep* :P Well my character is resting but I OoG agree to the concept. Everyone else agree? I do.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 06:06 PM	Thasis is currently not here please leave a message after the tone *beep* :P Well my character is resting but I OoG agree to the concept. Everyone else agree? OoG @Orcy - that's a generous offer Orcy :) thank you for posting it! :bow: it depends - because - people who tell lies (not suggesting the rep from that Keep does, but noting the point, only) - are dangerous allies in battle. If any (hypothetical) alliance is forged out of desperation/need by one team - the outpowered team - and without checks and balances - there is an uneven vulnerability. It's dangerous, even with neutrals, and self-destructive with evils. But goods, prolly really good! :) stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 06:17 PM	A man bearing the symbol of the Knights Von Drache on his tunic enters the halls. He bears a scroll which he holds up before him and unrolls. Reading across it he looks up toward the guild members within. "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Guil of Pure Good. I have been sent by my Lord Arcanus to request an alliance between yourselves and the Knights Von Drache. Ghashmal Keep would benefit from your assistance, and you too would benefit from ours, at least this is our view on the matter." Silimna turns her attention to the representative of the Knights of Van Drache. She murmers to herself, and her eyes suddenly flare with Arcane-blue. She looks to thasis, and he receives a short, mental message be cautious, good thasis. Some questions, dinner and a meeting would not hurt before jumping in, methinks" OoG: Silimna does know about some of Ghasmal Keeps activities, and a bit about Stormhand, but noone would know that IG. It's noted just to give a context to her methods. Note the Sending to thasis, the good - which is how a super-secret society work, sometimes. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 06:23 PM	Probably would help more if I didn't have the book with a spell that allows magic in an antimagic area. Besides, I won't steal it. I'll leave that to Ashariana, the original owner. really? Anti-anti magic hey. *clears throat* right then! It's off to the Arcane Research Lab for it, then, methinks *smiles* I've written several versions, meself, but never posted them to the Materials for Review thread. I think there's a version posted at a foundation or two, one of Lady Rolindin's or - a place where spell compendia are kept. Can anyone remember the thread's name? regards stav
Orcy The Green Wonder 10-20-05, 06:38 PM	The knight waits patiently and glances toward the elf as her eyes light up blue. He sighs and mutters under his breath as he awaits the guild leader's return. "Great... another one..."
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 06:40 PM	@jagggar I know alignments are stereotypical things - and it's interesting that there is no one-one lock between +ve and good and -ve and evil. The difficulty is moved one step away from energy, and to alignment, in any case, if that makes any sense *scratches head* does it? @all um, ya know, like, whatever energy an evil uses, the campaign needs to develop ideas about what evil is. Likewise, whatever energy, power or process good uses, the campaign needs to develop ideas about what good is. It moves us back to the question what is Holy and what is Unholy - with two opinions so far...... Kind Regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-05, 06:43 PM	The knight waits patiently and glances toward the elf as her eyes light up blue. He sighs and mutters under his breath as he awaits the guild leader's return. "Great... another one..." seeing his reaction, Silimna's face flushes red. For she is embarrassed. She does not like hurting or upsetting good people. Turning to the Knight - she says, "forgive me, melord. 'Tis no disrespect I intend. This is a dangerous world, we live in, and in hard times, we Drow of Eilistraee have learned to be wary. Sometimes, though, wariness can create the problems it seeks to avoid. My apologies for your discomfort." She flicks her hair over her shoulder and she smiles radiantly at the visitor. "here, have some Lembas. Mine tastes nicer than Silmarien's
thasis 10-20-05, 07:42 PM	A small little gnome comes running out of some random hallway "Hey guys!" he says in a high pitches voice "I'm here to represnt master Thasis in his absense... oh yes, I'm so anxious. This is the greatest honur" he then twitches. "I must get onto the buisness though. Yes yes! Buisness... ummm... what was I saying again? Oh yes, the alliance shall be discussed before any finality shall be done. Yes yes! Of course you might find it better to communicate with my master directly. If you can wait for a response I think it can be much better. Master is resting now though so do not disturb him. Just wait for him! Yes... wait..."
Aramar the Black 10-20-05, 09:08 PM	really? Anti-anti magic hey. *clears throat* right then! It's off to the Arcane Research Lab for it, then, methinks *smiles* I've written several versions, meself, but never posted them to the Materials for Review thread. I think there's a version posted at a foundation or two, one of Lady Rolindin's or - a place where spell compendia are kept. Can anyone remember the thread's name? regards stav Perhaps you might check the Library of the Council of the Archmages? There's some material from both you and Lady Rolindin in there.
Demonfey 10-21-05, 12:22 AM	Invoke Magic: Evoc, sor/wiz 9, swift action casting, personal, duration 1 round. Allows one 4th (or lower) spell to be cast in antimagic, dead magic, or even null magic areas. Sourcebook: Lords of Madness.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 09:07 PM	Good morning everyone - or evening as it were. I'm cutting some new powers....right.....now GoPG Powers incoming....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 09:23 PM	Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) Abjuration Level: Cleric, Paladin, Good, 4 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Personal Area: 20 ft. radius centred on the caster Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: n/a Spell Resistance: Yes Description When the cleric casts this spell, she opens a conduit to the Positive Energy Plane, and becomes filled with powerful positive energies, akin to those found in the heart of a star, but less intense. Effectively, the caster becomes a furnace of brilliance and creation, vibrant with life-giving energy. For the duration of the spell, the subject is surrounded by positive energy and gains the minor positive-dominant descriptor, which is a powerful anathema to anything that draws on energy from the Negative Energy Plane. To Undead, the Positive Energy Field is a threat to their very sinew and to a Good Cleric, this Field amplifies their power as a Cleric. A Good Cleric or Neutral Cleric who channels Positive Energy for their Turn Undead attempts, gains a +10 bonus on the roll to determine Hit Dice affected. Further, spells and spell-like abilities that use negative energy (including inflict spells) are impeded when cast in the Positive Energy Field.
Demonfey 10-21-05, 09:25 PM	Sil, can I ask you something? I didn't grab my book with the abilities of an insignia in it, and if I remember right, insignias would be a great addition to the SBB, so can you send me any info you got on them?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 09:42 PM	Resurrection Aura Conjuration, (Healing) Level: 9 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Personal Area: 20 ft. radius centred on the caster Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Will Save (Negates) Spell Resistance: Yes Description When the cleric casts this spell, she opens a channel to Ysgard, which is an island in the Positive Energy Plane and which has the minor positive-dominant descriptor. Any living being in this field gains fast healing 2 (reverse this for Undead, the field causes the opposite effect in creatures that rely on negative energy to exist). Individuals within the field may also regrow lost limbs, as per Regenerate spell (noting time constraints, i.e. 2d10 rounds. If the spell ends before the time required to regrow a lost limb, the regenerate function is negated). Additionally, any creature slain whilst in the Resurrection Field is brought back to life within 1d4 rounds (subject to constraints of True Resurrection spell). The spell prevents the departing soul from being waylaid, so Undead spawn effects are blocked by Resurrection Field. Undead within the spell's area of effect are also affected as per Undeath to Death spell. once the Resurrection function has been used once, the spell ends
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 09:44 PM	Sil, can I ask you something? I didn't grab my book with the abilities of an insignia in it, and if I remember right, insignias would be a great addition to the SBB, so can you send me any info you got on them? Hi there DF :) *scratches head* where can I find them? Happy to help - stav
Demonfey 10-21-05, 09:47 PM	I believe Races of Faerun, and a couple others. I'm not sure. I just know that the book I'd look in for it isn't here.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 09:48 PM	I believe Races of Faerun, and a couple others. I'm not sure. I just know that the book I'd look in for it isn't here. No worry! I don't have races of Faerun, but lemme check me other tomes..... *be right back* :) stav
Demonfey 10-21-05, 09:52 PM	Thanks, it's been driving me mad.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:03 PM	*shuffles pages of MoF* - hmm, can't see it there.... *grabs LEoF - shakes head* *FRCS - not there....* *PGtF.....grabs True Seeing spell to see if invisible ink hiding reference....* *FaP.....! that entry on Mystra's :cool: - erm, not there.....* dida WotC Search - pointed to RoF - noted 40 or so new feats - must get tome..... If there's any more specific info - I could check the indexes for that data for you :) I may have missed something. regards stav
Demonfey 10-21-05, 10:10 PM	Tried that, searched a few times, and haven't found it.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:19 PM	Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) Transmutation Level: Cleric, Good 5 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Personal Area: 20 ft. radius centred on the caster Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: special Spell Resistance: Yes Description When this spell is cast, energy from the Positive Energy plane surrounds the caster. The positive energy is also infused with Holy power. This living Holy energy is a powerful interdict to Undead. The spell has two effects. First, any Evil being must make a Will Save (DC=10+Spell Level+Ability Modifier) or be Interdicted (prevented) from entering the spell's area of effect. Second, all Evil creatures within the spell's effect suffer -4 to Saves, Melee and Ranged Attacks, and Skill Checks (including effects such as Defensive Casting, and Concentration Checks for casting and maintaining spells). The second function has no save.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:20 PM	Tried that, searched a few times, and haven't found it. They sound interesting, I honestly don't know much about them. What do they do? regards stav
Sargatanas 10-21-05, 10:24 PM	Resurrection Aura Conjuration, (Healing) Level: 9 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Personal Area: 20 ft. radius centred on the caster Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Will Save (Negates) Spell Resistance: Yes Description When the cleric casts this spell, she opens a channel to Ysgard, which is an island in the Positive Energy Plane and which has the minor positive-dominant descriptor. Any living being in this field gains fast healing 2 (reverse this for Undead, the field causes the opposite effect in creatures that rely on negative energy to exist). Individuals within the field may also regrow lost limbs, as per Regenerate spell (noting time constraints, i.e. 2d10 rounds. If the spell ends before the time required to regrow a lost limb, the regenerate function is negated). Additionally, any creature slain whilst in the Resurrection Field is brought back to life within 1d4 rounds (subject to constraints of True Resurrection spell). The spell prevents the departing soul from being waylaid, so Undead spawn effects are blocked by Resurrection Field. Undead within the spell's area of effect are also affected as per Undeath to Death spell. First, since True Ressurection is already a level 9 spell, this is overpowered, more like an epic spell. It affects everyone in the area, has multiple different spells activated by it, and has no material component. To the second spell you posted while I was replying, the second effect should at LEAST make it a -2 if the save is made. Or another save for that... @Demonfey, Drow House Insignia info will be sent in a couple moments...
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:27 PM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519539&postcount=61) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good
Demonfey 10-21-05, 10:28 PM	That's why I'm looking. I think that it allows some spells to be used by the owner a certain number of times a day, and the choice of spells is up to the creator I think. I'm trying to get the info because it can be so useful to the SBB, if they preorder the right spells.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:29 PM	Summary Post Summary of Alignments for Undeads from Libris Mortis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7537977&postcount=119). They're mostly but not exclusively evil. 19 Always Chaotic Evil; 1 Usually Chaotic Evil; 10 Always Neutral Evil; 5 Usually Neutral Evil; 8 Always Lawful Evil; 4 Usually Neutral; 1 Always Evil (any); Important Information about the Positive Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538024&postcount=120); Cleric Good and Evil Domain Spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538053&postcount=121); Important Information About the Negative Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7547405&postcount=153) Argument Whilst the Energy Planes are not, themselves aligned, Undead are infused with Negative Energy and are usually evil. Conversely, whilst the Postive Energy plane is not itself, inherently Good its energy destroys Undead (see Positoxins). Whilst not all Cleric Domain spells draw on Positive energy (for the Good Domain spells) or Negative energy (for the Evil Domain spells), Good clerics may not use spells with the Evil descriptor and vice-versa. Thus, a question remains about exactly what Holy and Unholy actually are. It would seem that need, greed, uncaring and intolerant of life characterise the Negative Energy Plane, even if "evil" does not. By contrast, it would seem that the heart of a star, furnace of creation, brilliance, birth of matter and energy, and vibrant characterise the Positive Energy Plane even if "good" does not. The exact relationship of the PEP and the NEP to good and evil remain unclear. Likewise, the distinction between "Holy" and Positive Energy on the one hand and "Unholy" and Negative Energy on the other remain unclear, as well.
Demonfey 10-21-05, 10:29 PM	First, since True Ressurection is already a level 9 spell, this is overpowered, more like an epic spell. It affects everyone in the area, has multiple different spells activated by it, and has no material component. To the second spell you posted while I was replying, the second effect should at LEAST make it a -2 if the save is made. Or another save for that... @Demonfey, Drow House Insignia info will be sent in a couple moments... Sweet. Thanks, Sargatanas. I didn't know if you'd have it.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:33 PM	First, since True Ressurection is already a level 9 spell, this is overpowered, more like an epic spell. It affects everyone in the area, has multiple different spells activated by it, and has no material component. yeah, I was thinking that, when I cut the spell. First up, I am thinking moving the effect down to Resurrection. But, offset against this, is the Ysgard descriptors. It's True Resurrection, once per day at Ysgard. But, True Resurrection Aura is a very short lived spell effect. Can only be used for a short burst. The Regerate Function is almost useless, in practical terms. The Undeath to Death is realistic. Undead's can't survive in the PEP. I was thinking about causing Undead to come back to life in the Spell's Aura. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:50 PM	Undeath to Life (Minor) Transmutation Level: Cleric, Paladin, Good 5 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Touch Target: special, see below Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude (Negates) Spell Resistance: Yes Description When this spell is cast, Positive Energy is infused into the spell caster. The caster then holds the charge (i.e. Concentration) maintaining the flow of Positive Energy into their body. This spell may then be combined with a Cleric's or Paladin's Turn Undead attempt. Upon successful turn, and subject to the normal rules of Turn Undead, all affected Undead are filled with powerful life afffirming energy and must make a Fortitude save, or be returned to life (see Raise Undead for time constraints on this function). A successful Fortitude save prevents this effect, but does not prevent the Turn effect.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:51 PM	Undeath to Life Transmutation Level: Cleric, Good 7 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Touch Target: special, see below Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude (Negates) Spell Resistance: Yes Description Like the Undead to Life (Minor) spell When this spell is cast, Positive Energy is infused into the spell caster. The caster then holds the charge (i.e. Concentration) maintaining the flow of Positive Energy into their body. This spell may then be combined with a Cleric's Turn Undead attempt. Upon successful turn, and subject to the normal rules of Turn Undead, all affected Undead are filled with powerful life afffirming energy and must make a Fortitude save, or be returned to life (see Resurrection spell for time constraints on this function). A successful Fortitude save prevents this effect, but does not prevent the Turn effect.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:52 PM	Undeath to Life (Major) Transmutation Level: Cleric, Good 9 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Touch Target: special, see below Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude (Negates) Spell Resistance: Yes Description Like the Undead to Life (Minor) spell When this spell is cast, Positive Energy is infused into the spell caster. The caster then holds the charge (i.e. Concentration) maintaining the flow of Positive Energy into their body. This spell may then be combined with a Cleric's Turn Undead attempt. Upon successful turn, and subject to the normal rules of Turn Undead, all affected Undead are filled with powerful life afffirming energy and must make a Fortitude save, or be returned to life (see True Resurrection spell for time constraints on this function). A successful Fortitude save prevents this effect, but does not prevent the Turn effect.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 10:56 PM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199). 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519539&postcount=61) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 11:04 PM	First, since True Ressurection is already a level 9 spell, this is overpowered, more like an epic spell. It affects everyone in the area, has multiple different spells activated by it, and has no material component. To the second spell you posted while I was replying, the second effect should at LEAST make it a -2 if the save is made. Or another save for that... @Demonfey, Drow House Insignia info will be sent in a couple moments... note edit to spell Once the True Resurrection function has been used, the spell ends There are other ways of handling the spell, but I think this one should do, but @all comments welcome. stav
premier666 10-21-05, 11:10 PM	Hya! I've been playing age of empires 3 for the last two days, so I'm a little behind in the current events, Anyone could tell me what is the current discussion here?
Demonfey 10-21-05, 11:11 PM	Currently, anti-undead spells.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 11:23 PM	Hya! I've been playing age of empires 3 for the last two days, so I'm a little behind in the current events, Anyone could tell me what is the current discussion here? G'day Premier! okay IC Ilmarin has just arrived (Gabrion, who healed thasis, and Silimna's been in touch with Silmarien. Data about Libris Mortis conversation - the IC version of the OoC posting); A representative of Incanus and of the Stormhand has just arrived, seeking an alliance; Some gnome person is representing thasis the good. Something fisshy in it OoC We're working on a whole set of new powers for a Tome called Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy. And - we've got work to do ;) regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 11:26 PM	Currently, anti-undead spells. I'll see if I can see what's wrong with me pm box, df - e-mail me, if you prefer. regards stav
Demonfey 10-21-05, 11:27 PM	Possibly mine.
jagggar 10-21-05, 11:33 PM	Undeath to Life (Minor) Transmutation Level: Cleric, Paladin, Good 5 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Touch Target: special, see below Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude (Negates) Spell Resistance: Yes Description When this spell is cast, Positive Energy is infused into the spell caster. The caster then holds the charge (i.e. Concentration) maintaining the flow of Positive Energy into their body. This spell may then be combined with a Cleric's or Paladin's Turn Undead attempt. Upon successful turn, and subject to the normal rules of Turn Undead, all affected Undead are filled with powerful life afffirming energy and must make a Fortitude save, or be returned to life (see Raise Undead for time constraints on this function). A successful Fortitude save prevents this effect, but does not prevent the Turn effect. Paladins don't get 5th level spells. I think it should only work against undead you would destory instead of turn. And could you stop saying they're spells of the Good domain. Feel free to create a new domain, but please, just stop saying they belong to the Good domain.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 11:48 PM	Paladins don't get 5th level spells. it's been a while since I checked Paladin lists. I think it should only work against undead you would destory instead of turn. why? you can use the Resurrection spells to bring an undead to life, anyhowz. In the model i've described, it's effectively a full-round set of things (you use your turn-equiv and a spell). And could you stop saying they're spells of the Good domain. Feel free to create a new domain, but please, just stop saying they belong to the Good domain. *chuckles* respectfully, jagggy, no, because, and please note that they also have the Cleric descriptor, allowing their use to Neutrals. Good Domain spells may or may not be Holy (see Blade Barrier) - they're spells people feel are for the powers of Good. @all but, please enjoy discussing it. I argue that Good spells are like this (see my post with the heading Argument) regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-05, 11:55 PM	@all it's because the spells primarily target evil creatures (see my post summarising Alignments from Libris Mortis) that there's an argument for adding these spells to the Good domain. A new domain Life or vibrant is a good idea though. regards stav
jagggar 10-22-05, 12:20 AM	@all it's because the spells primarily target evil creatures (see my post summarising Alignments from Libris Mortis) that there's an argument for adding these spells to the Good domain. A new domain Life or vibrant is a good idea though. regards stav Well, Glory (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#gloryDomain) is out, but you may like the domain power. I don't find there to be an arguement for adding it to the domain. If you scroll down on that page I linked to you see that they created an entirely new domain when changing only two spells in it. (Repose domain came from Death domain.)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 12:32 AM	Well, Glory (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#gloryDomain) is out, but you may like the domain power. I don't find there to be an arguement for adding it to the domain. If you scroll down on that page I linked to you see that they created an entirely new domain when changing only two spells in it. (Repose domain came from Death domain.) Hmm, that's kina fair enough in a way, because, Domain spells are a fairly limited set of items on a list. that's true. :) But, - ya know what - Blade Barrier!! GOOD = *not* (IMO) *chuckles*. Whatever were they thinking when they did that, me wonders. But, in the Foundation, it's a lotta fun discussing mods and so on. Of course, then Materials For Review for the final touches, madam (*affectionately*). (i.e. Silimna would be honoured to be referred to as Madam) thanx for posting the Glory domain :) stavvy
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 12:35 AM	Glory Domain Granted Power Turn undead with a +2 bonus on the turning check and +1d6 to the turning damage roll. Glory Domain Spells Disrupt undead Bless weapon Searing light Holy smite Holy sword Bolt of glory Sunbeam Crown of glory Gate totally :cool: !!
jagggar 10-22-05, 12:36 AM	why? you can use the Resurrection spells to bring an undead to life, anyhowz. In the model i've described, it's effectively a full-round set of things (you use your turn-equiv and a spell). Resurrection is a 7th level spell and requires the undead to be destoryed before it can be returned to life. And really thinking about it, at 5th level, if you used Raise Dead as your basis (ignoring that it can't raise creatures that have been turned into undead) only zombies could reasonably be brought back since you need a fair amout of remains. but, please enjoy discussing it. I argue that Good spells are like this (see my post with the heading Argument) I don't know why, but I don't quite draw that from your arguement. Care to expound?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 12:41 AM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199). 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212).
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 12:46 AM	Resurrection is a 7th level spell and requires the undead to be destoryed before it can be returned to life. fair point. Let me think about how to approach that with the spell series. One could argue that an Undead is quite destroyable in Ysgard, just by being there. The PEP is anathema to Undead - but perhaps adding one extra level to the spells - or - one could also argue that it's the combination of the Turn attempt and the spell that empowers it so. After all, within this spell series model, one can only apply this to a very limited number of Undead. One in fact, for higher level Undeads. Regards stav And really thinking about it, at 5th level, if you used Raise Dead as your basis (ignoring that it can't raise creatures that have been turned into undead) only zombies could reasonably be brought back since you need a fair amout of remains. also reasonable I don't know why, but I don't quite draw that from your arguement. Care to expound? no problem. It's implicit in the argument. I will repost the post, and make that which is implicit, explicit, as we were taught for 7 years in my professional training. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 12:53 AM	Summary Post Summary of Alignments for Undeads from Libris Mortis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7537977&postcount=119). They're mostly but not exclusively evil. 19 Always Chaotic Evil; 1 Usually Chaotic Evil; 10 Always Neutral Evil; 5 Usually Neutral Evil; 8 Always Lawful Evil; 4 Usually Neutral; 1 Always Evil (any); Important Information about the Positive Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538024&postcount=120); Cleric Good and Evil Domain Spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538053&postcount=121); Important Information About the Negative Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7547405&postcount=153) Argument Whilst the Energy Planes are not, themselves aligned, Undead are infused with Negative Energy and are usually evil. Conversely, whilst the Postive Energy plane is not itself, inherently Good its energy destroys Undead (see Positoxins). Whilst not all Cleric Domain spells draw on Positive energy (for the Good Domain spells) or Negative energy (for the Evil Domain spells), Good clerics may not use spells with the Evil descriptor and vice-versa. Thus, a question remains about exactly what Holy and Unholy actually are. It would seem that need, greed, uncaring and intolerant of life characterise the Negative Energy Plane, even if "evil" does not. By contrast, it would seem that the heart of a star, furnace of creation, brilliance, birth of matter and energy, and vibrant characterise the Positive Energy Plane even if "good" does not. The exact relationship of the PEP and the NEP to good and evil remain unclear. Likewise, the distinction between "Holy" and Positive Energy on the one hand and "Unholy" and Negative Energy on the other remain unclear, as well. However, because Positive Energy is one of very few primary resources available to characters to destroy Undead, and further, whilst Positive Energy is not itself Good, it does primarily affect evil creatures. This is because most, but not all Undead are actually evil. Taken together, Positive Energy is a powerful tool against Evil, even if it can, technically be a power used to hurt or harm the living as well. Taken as a whole, there is insufficient justification to say Positive Energy is only Good but enough to say Positive Energy is a powerful tool for the cause of Good.
jagggar 10-22-05, 01:44 AM	Ooohkay. I understand your arguement better now. I've got this little 'problem' which involves neglecting the core definitions of good and evil and replacing them with my own ideas. It's what leads me to furrow my brow at ravages.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 02:08 AM	*pauses R&D Mode to say something* jagggy, you are a very good person - in the earthly sense of the term 'good'. I think you've been working very hard, very solo and very fairly. Thank you for your good work. I think there are many of us who would feel the same way. One of the things I've been trying to do, is legitimise your right to particular areas of decision-making by showing you strong support. When Anglar was here, my GM-ship was stabilised by his same-said support. Kind Regards to yo *okay - back to R&D mode*, see next post
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 02:17 AM	Consecrate Spell [METAMAGIC] - from Complete Divine, p. 79-80 You can imbue your spells with the raw energy of good. Prerequisite: Any good alignment Benefit: A spell you modify with this feat gains the good descriptor. Furthermore, if the spell deals damage, half of the damage (rounded down) results directly from divine power and is therefore not subject to be reduced by reistance or immunity to energy-based attacks. For example, a consecrated fire storm spell cast by a 16th-level cleric deals 16d6 points of damage, hafl of which is fire damage and half of which is sheer divine power. Thus, creatures immune to fire still take damage. The consecrated spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level. Analysis This is a very interesting feat. It's effects are broad-reaching as opposed to narrow in their scope. Despite this, it only uses up a spell slot one higher. The spell effectively turns all your cleric spells, if you like, into spells with the Good descriptor (without, unfortunately, telling us exactly what Good actually is - what - an 'energy' a 'field effect' - very frustrating). By contrast, specific spells, specifically created, that derive their power from the PEP, should be considered distinct. This is because of the narrowness of a specific spell or spell-like effect. What I want us to absorb and think about is the first axiom about Game Balance (I'm gunna take this to Metathread) that being a power with narrow focus, attacts fewer 'penalty points' of 'power weight' than an effect with broader focus. On another vein, I will post, next post, a comment about power and the Turn Undead function. Regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 02:27 AM	Disciple of the Sun [Divine] - Complete Divine, p. 80 You can destroy undead instead of merely turning them. Prerequisites: Ability to turn or rebuke undead, good alignment. Benefit: You may spend two turn undead attempts when you turn undead instead of one. If you do then you get destroy the undead instead of turning them. Analysis Given the feat, prior, as per Complete Divine, the spell series Undead to Life make a lot more sense, power wise. By combining a 9th (Undead to Life (major)) 7th (Undead to Life) or 5th (Undead to Life (minor)) level spell slot with Turn Undead, it follows that you are i) spending two actions to do something, which is a very expensive thing to do. One action represents a great deal of power in D&D and ii) You should be able to 'up the ante' on the typical powers achievable with Turn Undead when you infuse Turn Undead with such powerful Cleric magic.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 02:59 AM	Comment about Use of Positive Energy Evil clerics and neutral clerics who Rebuke undead, do so by channeling Negative Energy and awing the Undead, bringing them under their control. It seems to me that such clerics should not be able to use any spell that channels Positive Energy. That, 'mechanics' argument aside, one wonders what an Evil deity would have to say about an evil cleric - or a neutral one that worships them - using Positive Energy. Also, I've just noticed something. Not all the spells in the PHB that get the desriptor Evil are on the Evil Domain spell list. Create Undead (Greater) is an example of this. Only Create Undead is listed. Similarly, Bless is designated with the Good Descriptor, for example, but is not a Good Domain spell. My apologies - I've been slow to see the distinction between a Good descriptor and a spell from the Good domain. That is, a spell can be Good but not from the Good Domain Regards stav
Tenzhi 10-22-05, 04:24 AM	And really thinking about it, at 5th level, if you used Raise Dead as your basis (ignoring that it can't raise creatures that have been turned into undead) only zombies could reasonably be brought back since you need a fair amout of remains. A zombie isn't a creature that has been turned into undead, but rather an object that has been turned into undead.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 10:06 AM	Hi there Tenzhi - good to see you. @All - Right then! Inspired by the Consumptive Field spell series, Libris Mortis--the "ebbing life force of all badly wounded creatures nearby" that can be used to "fuel your own power"...."you radiate a consumptive field"....! I can't decide whether the Necrotic Cyst series are more or less likely to induce the Vomitron Response! (p. 63) *vomits* Banes of the Undead, from Libris Mortis [I]Positive Energy Effects (p. 19-20) Bless water (2d4 damage to undead, or 1 damage with splash); Cure Wounds (Deals damage to undead by touch); Disrupt Undead (Deals 1d6 damage to undead at range); Heal (Deals 10 hp/level damage to undead by touch); Mass Heal (Deals 10 hp/level damage to many undead at range. Effects of Sunlight Spells (p. 19-20) Searing Light Spell (Deals 1d6/level damage to undead at range, or 1d8/level damage to sunlight-vulnerable undead at range); Sunbeam (Deals 1d6/level damage to undead at range or destroys sunlight-vulnerable undead at range); Sunburst (Deals 1d6/level damge to undead at range, or destroys sunlight-vulnerable undead at range). Spell Effects on Undead (p. 19-21) Antimagic Field (Incorporeal Undead wink out while in area); Chill Touch (Touched undead flees as if paniced for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level); Consecrate (Turning checks gain +3 bonus; undead take -1 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves); Disrupting Weapon (destroys undead of equal or lower HD to you, on failed Will Save); Hallow (Turn checks gain +4 bonus); Magic Stone (Each stone deals 2d6 damage to undead); Wall of Fire (Deals double damage to undead). Feats Divine Accuracy (Spend one turn/rebuke undead to grant all allies within 60-ft. radius burst ability to reroll their miss chance with melee attackes whenever they miss a foe because of a miss chance caused by incorporealness, p. 26); Empower Turning (multiply turning damage roll by 1-1/2, p. 26); Enduring Life (you can ignore the effect of negative levels for 1 minute per constition score bonus); Energise Spell (Your spells channel positive energy to deal extra damage to undead creatures but are less effective against other creatures, 50% more and less respectively p. 26); Ghost Scarred (You are adept at fighting incorporeal undead, +2 insight bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls against incorporeal undead. You also gain a +2 bonus on all saving throws made to resist the spells or abilities of incorporeal undead, p. 27); Heighten Turning (You can affect more powerful undead with your turning or rebuking attempts; you add a chosen number, no higher than your level to turning check and substract this from undead damage, p. 27); Lasting Life (You can shed negative levels with an act of will, a standard action, DC=10+1/2 attacker's HD+attacker's Char modifier, may repeat each round, p. 28); Quicken Turning (You can turn or rebuke undead with a moment's thought, free action, once per round, p. 29); Requiem (Your bardic music affects undead creatures, but for half duration, p. 29); Sacred Vengeance (You can channel energy to deal extra damage against undead in melee, as a free action, spend one of your turn undead attempts to add 2d6 points of damage to all your successful melee attacks, at end of round, p. 30); Sacred Vitality (You can channel positive energy to gain protection from damage to your abilities of your life force, a standard action, you can spend one of your turning attempts to gain immunity to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain for 1 minute); Spurn Death's Touch (You can channel divine energy to remove some of the harmful effets of attacks amde by undead creatures, spend a turn attempt, standard action, heal 1d4 points of ability damage, roemove a pralysis effect or remove a negative level, p. 30); Unquenchable Flame of Life 9You are harened to the attacks of the undead, +2 bouns on all saves against the extraordinary or supernatural abilities of the undead); Vampire Hunter (Your knowledge of vampires has given you the extraordinary ability to detect subtle signs of their presence and to resist their dominating gaze ability, take a move action to unfailingly determine whether a vampire or vampire spawn is within 30' of you. In addition, you are immune to the dominating gaze ability of vampires and vampire sapwn, p. 31). Specific Spells Ectoplasmic Armour (+5 armour bonus to AC, +1 bonus/4 caster levels, p. 64); Ectoplasmic Feedback (Any incorporeal creature that hits you takes 1d6 points of force damage +1 point per caster level, maximum +10, p. 64); Protection from Negative Energy (DR 10 for attacks caused by negative energy, p. 70); Sheltered Vitality (This spell from LM makes the caster immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability drain or damage for 1 min/level, p. 71); Spark of Life (makes undead vulnerable to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, and damge to its physical ability scores [though it still lacks a constitution score and can't take constitution damage]. It loses its immunity to effects that require a Fortitude save, as well as its invulnerability to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects, p. 71); Spawn Screen (Prevents you from coming back as an Undead if you copped it p. 71); Undead Bane Weapon (weapon gains +2 versus undead, +2d6 damage, at caster level 9 weapon gains +1 enhancement bonus if not already a magical weapon, p. 72) PrCs Master of Radience-PrC from LM that is made specifically for fighting undead. Banes of the Undead - to Build Spells, Spell-like Abilities, Supernatural Powers that create Auras that modify Undead's Saves, DC Checks, Attacks and Skill Checks downwardly; Knocking out the Will Saves of sentient Undead; ways of Improving Turn Attempts, using magical modifiers; ways of "Quickening" Turn Undead Attempts; and the converse, ways of imbuing normal spells with Turn Undead; poisoning Undead flesh, like the Necrotic spell series on the living, but in reverse; spells for downwardly modifying assailants that draw on energy from the Positive Material Plane.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 10:35 PM	.....more incoming.....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 10:46 PM	Life Enhancement Aura Transmutation Level: Cleric, Good ? Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Area of Effect: 60' radius centred on the caster Target: caster + designated allies in area of effect Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Special Spell Resistance: Yes Description A 60 ft. positive energy aura surround the caster. All undead in the aura receive a -4 penalty to Turn Undead attempts and receive the opposite of fast healing, or -5 (Fort save negates). Any designated living creature in the aura receive +2 Energy Levels.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 11:09 PM	I wanted to quote one power from one PrC, the Pale Master. Undead Graft (Su): At 6th level, a pale master gives in to terrible necrophiliac urges. He cuts off his arm and replaces it with an undead prosthetic, which may be skeletal in form or preserved flesh stitched in place like that of a flesh golem. Regardless of its composition, the graft grants a +4 inherent bonus to the character's Strength score. Additionally, the undead graft allows him to deliver horrible touch attacks. A pale master can use this ability once per day at 6th level, twice per day at 8th level, and three times per day at 10th level. The character must declare that he is using this ability before making the attack roll; a failed attack roll still expends that use of the ability. Each time he makes a touch attack using this ability, the pale master can select from any of the effects described below for which he meets the prerequisite class level. The save DC for the pale master's touch attacks is 10+his pale master class level + his Char modifier. Paralysing Touch: Any living foe except fror an elf that is hit by a pale master's touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds. Prerequisite: Class level 6th Weakening Touch: A living foe hit by a pale master's touch attacks takes 1d6 points of Strength damage (no save). A creature reduced to Strength 0 dies. Prerequisite Class level 7th Degenerative Touch: A living foe hit by a pale master's touch attack receives one negative level (no save), and must make a Fortidude save 24 hours later to avoid losing the level permanently. Prerequisite: Class level 8th. Destructive Touch: A living foe hit by a pale master's touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of Constitution drain. Prerequisite: Class level 9th Deathless Master's Touch: A living foe of up to one size category larger than a pale master hit by the pale master's touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or die. A slain creature automatically animates 1 round later as a zombie (see page 256 of the Moster Manual) and is under the pale master's control as if he had animated it. Undead created using htis power do not count against a pale master's HD total for controlling undead. Prerequisite: Class level 10th Analysis As well as getting an extraordinary DC bonus to these abilities (an extra +1 per level, which, I might add is twice the rate of the DC for normal DC progression. This is an additional +5 over the normal DC attainable with ordinary methods). While methods of improving DC are indeed an under-developed commodity, these extraodinary abilities also have no saves on the Weakening Touch and Degenerative Touch Supernatural Abilities. For Weakening Touch, at 10th level, an affected PC will lose, on average, 10 points of strength, automatically, from this effect, when used three times per day - the capacity of this power. That represents an additional -5 to any Melee Attacks, as well, which already adds to the +5 bonus of the DC power of the effects. Similarly, Degerative Touch will cost you all the losses emcumbent to your saves, HP and so on from three lost levels. The nett effect is at least -2 on your primary Save, if not more, depending on your level and possibly that much on your secondary save, also depending on luck. This power is only one of the PrC's set of powers, and it comes with about 10 others. Several levels have more than one power granted. Is it overpowered? I would say no - but I do highlight the powers, tools and devices available to players, and can't but help of think of Versemasters at this point. I will post the whole PrC, later, but basically, your spell progression is as per Wizard, you get d4, one primary save, and here are your powers: - Animate Dead; Darkvision; Undead armour affinity (10%); Control undead, and deathless vigor; Undead Graft, and paralysing touch; Tough as bone, and weakening touch; Undead armour affinity (20%), and degenerative touch; Undead cohort, and destructive touch; Deathless mastery, and deathless master's touch. Kind Regards stav
jagggar 10-22-05, 11:18 PM	A zombie isn't a creature that has been turned into undead, but rather an object that has been turned into undead. Better take that one up with the designers then. Raise dead says "A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell." Thinking about it though, a corpse isn't an object, it's a creature afflicted with the 'dead' condition. Comment about Use of Positive Energy Evil clerics and neutral clerics who Rebuke undead, do so by channeling Negative Energy and awing the Undead, bringing them under their control. It seems to me that such clerics should not be able to use any spell that channels Positive Energy.Would you say that the wiz/sorc who casts fireball should not later be able to cast cone of cold? That, 'mechanics' argument aside, one wonders what an Evil deity would have to say about an evil cleric - or a neutral one that worships them - using Positive Energy.Oddly enough, I used a very similar answer to an entirely different question (not related to D&D in anyway) a few days ago: It depends on the nature of the gods you're talking about. Mr. Un-Ded is probably not going to be a big fan of his clerics using positive energy. Or at least, you better be doing it to further the causes of the undead. (Healing a living comrade to take out undead hunters.) On the other hand, one of the evil gods I'm designing for my homebrew absolutely despises undead. They break the laws of nature, do not respect death and must be destroyed because of it. The destruction of undead must always be priority on his clerics' to do lists. Be it a good lich or a bad lich (Why do I suddenly feel like rewriting The Wizard of Oz?) it must be destroyed. He wouldn't grant the Death domain because it has spells which create undead, so he will be granting the Repose domain. And I plan on his clerics channelling positive energy (with no option for his neutral clerics).
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-05, 11:29 PM	Hi jagggar, interesting. I like your stuff on Homebrew gods. It sounds interesting. About the analogy fire and ice. The key distinction recognises that as a Cleric, you must decide whether you will Turn or Rebuke when you sign up. I'd say it's a Deity thing. Also - the spells with the Evil descriptor can't be used by Good clerics, and vice versa. It's a very obscure, confused area. on another note I've given a lot of thought to the Undeath to Death series. They have a very narrow focus, these spells. And - you're filling the Undeads with powerful life-affirming energy, from the PEP. You should be able to bring them back to life, in this model. Also, the fort save in the spells recognises the equivalent presence of a Destroy Undead function (and here's the important bit - mechanics wise. The presence of the save - makes the spells different to the Raise Dead series, in a very important way. It's effectively "slay undead" in the fort save. Thus, we have weakened the Resurrection/Raise functions, because no save applies in the Raise series. But you do get a choice to stay dead, if you like. An important question though - I'd like to point out that you don't get a say about being made Undead by the assailant, when they do creepy things to helpless female elves. I would argue that that should allow the rules to preclude the element of choice in the Undead to Life series (on failed fort save). The Undead are on the Prime Material Plane - means they 'want' to be here - so I'd argue the cleric should be able to impel them to come back to life on failed Fort save. What's your thoughts?
jagggar 10-23-05, 12:31 AM	What's your thoughts? Well, you're going to want to change that Fort save to a Will save. It goes along with undeath to death versus circle of death. And then there's that little matter of undead ignoring spells that allow Fort saves unless the spell also effects objects. Brain's kinda sore right now, so the creative side of things is kinda blah. In my flipping between spells which get the dead back, I noticed that you're probably going to need an expensive material component or the spell level'll probably have to skyrocket.
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 12:45 AM	Better take that one up with the designers then. Raise dead says "A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can't be raised by this spell." A statement which doesn't preclude the fact that a zombie is not "a creature who has been turned into an undead creature." It merely means that Raise Dead can be used to raise a person whose corpse is currently animated despite popular belief to the contrary. What it cannot do is raise a person who has been turned into an undead creature - i.e. a person who has been affected by any various undead spawn ability. Thinking about it though, a corpse isn't an object, it's a creature afflicted with the 'dead' condition. According to the rules, when a creature has been afflicted with the dead condition, the "creature" part of them departs for their appropriate plane. The corpse is an object just like a leg of mutton or a cheeseburger. The proof that the "soul" is the actual creature can be found through any number of means. The soul is the identity and can exist seperate from the body (as per the dead condition). The soul can be returned to a different body and still be the creature (reincarnate, among others). If the soul is destroyed the creature cannot be raised or resurrected, which means that the corpse is most assuredly an object even if there was any doubt before yet it can still be animated as a zombie or even used in a Create Greater Undead spell as these spells target a corpse and not a creature - and this also means that undead created by these spells don't fit the definition of a "creature who has been turned into an undead creature."
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 12:47 AM	Well, you're going to want to change that Fort save to a Will save. It goes along with undeath to death versus circle of death. And then there's that little matter of undead ignoring spells that allow Fort saves unless the spell also effects objects. Brain's kinda sore right now, so the creative side of things is kinda blah. In my flipping between spells which get the dead back, I noticed that you're probably going to need an expensive material component or the spell level'll probably have to skyrocket. hmm, this is body-beautiful stuff, jaggs. Ya know - it's about altering the form of flesh, not of the mind. It's an assault on Undead Sinew, not Undead Mind. Undead do have Fort saves, for particular purposes (See Positoxins for Precedent. They're Fort). spell components *vomits* - I don't use them - are we using them here?
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 12:51 AM	Undead flesh might be considered a function of undead mind depending on who you ask.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 12:51 AM	@Tenzhi I'd be curious to hear your comments on the Undead Graft of the Pale Master, a few posts up. Note the DC progressions. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 12:52 AM	Undead flesh might be considered a function of undead mind depending on who you ask. I argue that Positive Energy affects their flesh, not so much their mind. Positoxin precedent cited. Others exist. But, I take your point, and in fact, one of my spells (Interdict the Undead) that draws on positive energy is Will, for the reasons you cite. regards stav
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 01:08 AM	@Tenzhi I'd be curious to hear your comments on the Undead Graft of the Pale Master, a few posts up. Note the DC progressions. The ability looks a bit overpowered to me at first blush. The Save DC progression is perfectly understandable, however, considering it's a 10 level class rather than a 20. That puts it roughly on par with Spell save DCs and the save DCs of class abilities such as Quivering Palm.
jagggar 10-23-05, 01:09 AM	Hi jagggar, interesting. I like your stuff on Homebrew gods. It sounds interesting.Thanks. About the analogy fire and ice. The key distinction recognises that as a Cleric, you must decide whether you will Turn or Rebuke when you sign up. I'd say it's a Deity thing.Drat, you're right. I guess my closest comparison might be a domain wizard from UA. I'd say though that it says what type of energy you (or your deity) have more experience/deeper connection/etc. with. Just because you're better at calling upon the positive energies of the world, doesn't mean the negative ones just ignore you (especially if you asked your diety for them specifically). Also - the spells with the Evil descriptor can't be used by Good clerics, and vice versa. It's a very obscure, confused area. I'm not sure that's very confusing. I actually did kind of a survey. Of the spells which have either a Good or Evil descriptor (ignoring summon spells), 9 are the same spell with different names and the same but opposite effects, 1 is unique to the Good descriptor, and 8 are unique to the Evil descriptor. Out of the 10 good spells, 2 mention positive energy, 1 deals extra damage to evil outsiders, 1 weakens undead in the area, and 1 indirectly deals damage to both evil outsiders and undead.
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 01:11 AM	I argue that Positive Energy affects their flesh, not so much their mind. I would say that it affects their negative energy in much the same way as negative energy affects the positive of the living. For we are both made of the same flesh, yet the different energies afflict us differently.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 01:12 AM	just re-reading some of the Feats in Libris Mortis, and thought this might help us.... Energise Spell [METAMAGIC] Your spells channel positive energy to deal extra damage to undead creatures, but are less effective against other opponents. Prerequisites: Nonevil alighment, must not have the ability to rebuke undead. Bemefit: Your spells are infused withpositive energy. An energised spell deals an extra 50% damage to undead creatures, but deals 50% less damage to nonundead creatures and to objects. An energised spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level. Special: A character who has the ability to channel negative energy to rebuke or command undead cannot select this feat. Analysis The emphasis in this analysis is on the question of good, evil, positive and negative energy, not power (I don't think this metamagic should use up an extra level at all). That aside, note what it says under special "a character who has the ability to channel negative energy to rebuke or command undead cannot select this feat". Also, note the "Nonevil alignment" prerequisite. Regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 01:14 AM	I would say that it affects their negative energy in much the same way as negative energy affects the positive of the living. For we are both made of the same flesh, yet the different energies afflict us differently. Mostly that seems to imply Fortitude. The Ne-creepy-mantic spell series usually do us in with Death spells that are Fort..... regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 01:19 AM	Thanks. anytime :) Drat, you're right. :rofl: Out of the 10 good spells, 2 mention positive energy, 1 deals extra damage to evil outsiders, 1 weakens undead in the area, and 1 indirectly deals damage to both evil outsiders and undead. it's a very confused area of D&D - I'm quite puzzled by this confound. At a guess, it seems that designers haven't explicitly tackled it. I still don't know what Good is - given this.... regards stav
jagggar 10-23-05, 01:35 AM	Mostly that seems to imply Fortitude. The Ne-creepy-mantic spell series usually do us in with Death spells that are Fort.....Yes, but 'we' are living. Traits of the undead type include: Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning disease, and death effects. Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undeath to death as I mentioned before is just like circle of death except that it targets undead and uses a Will save in place of Fort. it's a very confused area of D&D - I'm quite puzzled by this confound. At a guess, it seems that designers haven't explicitly tackled it. I still don't know what Good is - given this....To quote Princess Bunhead, "You'll never get away with this, Black Helmet Man! You are bad! You are bad and we are good! Your badness will be the end of you, and our goodness will be our triumph! Bad is bad - good is good! Bad-bad-good-bad! Good-good-bad-good, bad! Good."
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 01:41 AM	New Feat... Compel [METAMAGIC] Your mind-affecting spells affect the Undead. Prerequisite: Spellcasting, Spellcraft 8 Ranks. Benefit: You can extend the effects of your mind-affecting spells so that they can influence, even the Undead. When altered this way, a spell uses up a spell slot one higher in level. Normal: Undead are usually immune to mind-influencing effects.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 01:45 AM	Yes, but 'we' are living. Traits of the undead type include: Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning disease, and death effects. Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undeath to death as I mentioned before is just like circle of death except that it targets undead and uses a Will save in place of Fort. except - implicit in that rules-based structure - is comment on Undead metabolism. Hang on, let me find something on it from Libris Mortis. Again, Positoxins are Fort, jagggy, because they specifically target (and here's the important bit) what's left of Undead metabolism. I'll cite Libris Mortis's take on Fort saves....hang on. regards stav
Demonfey 10-23-05, 01:49 AM	Sil, you might want to see what's happening in your halls.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 01:51 AM	....under Type, p. 74 Libris Mortis "The positoxin's method of delivery, and the Fortitude save DC to avoid the positoxins' damage. and ...."Positoxins are special alchemical substances distilled from holy water and laced with positive energy. To a corporeal undead creature, a positoxin functions much like a poison, usually dealing initial and secondary ability damage or drain when the target fails a Fortitude save...." (p. 74) ....hang on, I'll post about Fort saves, from Libris Mortis, next post, then an analysis.... regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 02:10 AM	Libris Mortis, p. 21 Disintegrate is a special case that bears mentioning. Though this spell has no special effect against undead creatures, the fact that such creatures have very low Fortitude saves makes disintegrate terrifically effective at destroying them.... Analysis The commentary hints at some special exceptions to the general rule about Fortitude saves..... hang on, still trying to find the Fort save excerpt.... stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 02:22 AM	"....while the immunities of undead creatures are indeed useful, they come at a heavy price. Having no Constitution score means an undead character rarely makes Fortitude saves, but when he does--such as against disintegrate spell--his save modifier is often woefully low....." (Libris Mortis, p. 31) (bold face not in original) Analysis All the Undead monster and PrC series in Libris Mortis list the Undead's Fort save progression, in anticipation of the need to use a Fort save. It is effects that specifically target the vulnerabilities of the Undead's metabolism that require Fortitude saves. Undead flesh is vulnerable to Positive Energy. Negative Energy that binds their sinew together, and Positive Energy disrupts sinew, one could argue....lemme see if there's anytin' else I can find.... Note also, the "but when he does" hints tantalisingly at other contingencies when Fort saves should apply. regards stav
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 02:27 AM	"....while the immunities of undead creatures are indeed useful, they come at a heavy price. Having no Constitution score means an undead character rarely makes Fortitude saves, but when he does--such as against disintegrate spell--his save modifier is often woefully low....." (Libris Mortis, p. 31) (bold face not in original) Those rare occasions are typically when the undead is being treated as an object making a Fort save.
Demonfey 10-23-05, 02:29 AM	Of course, immunity to transmutation armor'd fix that right up.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 02:37 AM	Those rare occasions are typically when the undead is being treated as an object making a Fort save. positoxins "poison" them.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 02:47 AM	Of course, immunity to transmutation armor'd fix that right up. i guess so.... Interestingly, on a tangent, Turn Undead destroys Undead, sans saving throw at all. Given that i) Clerics who do this channel positive energy, and ii) the near absence of undead on the PEP, iii) the Positoxin and iv) Disintegrate precedents, I'd say there's a discussion here to be had. I think the idea of an effect that targets the residual metabolism of the undead is not a bad way to go. Mind you, Spark of Life, that undoes all their special immunities, is a Will Save. You can cast it, and then do anything you like to them, including Critical Hits and so on. The spell alters their metabolism. The Undeath to Life series may do the same. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 02:48 AM	...there's the option of a Metamagic Feat to use higher level spell slots to work on Fort, not Will as well.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 02:51 AM	...gotta nutha idea. In a very strict interpretation, one could use a Positoxin as a Spell Component for the Undead to Life series. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 02:54 AM	A strict version. I think it's being excessive and overbalancing the power. The narrowed specialisation of the spells, and the specific toxicity effects to undead imbued into the spell series, should do it without the variation. Further, the additional balancer of the Turn Attempt has been embedded into the spell series. A Positoxin Alone can destroy and Undead, as can a double-turn (as per Feat series). A 9th level spell plus either Turn or Positoxin should be more than enough, I'd have thought, power wise. Undeath to Life (Major) Transmutation Level: Cleric, Good 9 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Touch Target: special, see below Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: special, see below Spell Resistance: Yes Description Like the Undead to Life (Minor) spell When this spell is cast, Positive Energy is infused into the spell caster. The caster then holds the charge (i.e. Concentration) maintaining the flow of Positive Energy into their body. This spell may then be combined with a Cleric's Turn Undead attempt and the spell may be cast in two ways. When a character uses a particular Positoxin as a spell component, upon successful turn, and subject to the normal rules of Turn Undead, all affected Undead are filled with powerful life afffirming energy and must make a Fortitude save, or be returned to life (see True Resurrection spell for time constraints on this function). A successful Fortitude save prevents this effect, but does not prevent the Turn effect. In the second mode, the character may cast the spell without the assistance of a positoxin. When she does so, substitute a Will save for a Fort save.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 03:12 AM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith Compel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569800&postcount=242) 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199); Life Enhancement Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568774&postcount=225) 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212).
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 03:16 AM	hokay! Today's Vomitronic Inspiration is inspired by the Undead Grafts, Libris Mortis--"At 6th level, a pale master gives in to necrophiliac urges. He cuts off his arm and replaces it with an undead prosthetic, which may be skeletal in form or preserved flesh stitched in place....." (p. 48) *vomits* Banes of the Undead, from Libris Mortis Positive Energy Effects (p. 19-20) Bless water (2d4 damage to undead, or 1 damage with splash); Cure Wounds (Deals damage to undead by touch); Disrupt Undead (Deals 1d6 damage to undead at range); Heal (Deals 10 hp/level damage to undead by touch); Mass Heal (Deals 10 hp/level damage to many undead at range. Effects of Sunlight Spells (p. 19-20) Searing Light Spell (Deals 1d6/level damage to undead at range, or 1d8/level damage to sunlight-vulnerable undead at range); Sunbeam (Deals 1d6/level damage to undead at range or destroys sunlight-vulnerable undead at range); Sunburst (Deals 1d6/level damge to undead at range, or destroys sunlight-vulnerable undead at range). Spell Effects on Undead (p. 19-21) Antimagic Field (Incorporeal Undead wink out while in area); Chill Touch (Touched undead flees as if paniced for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level); Consecrate (Turning checks gain +3 bonus; undead take -1 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves); Disrupting Weapon (destroys undead of equal or lower HD to you, on failed Will Save); Hallow (Turn checks gain +4 bonus); Magic Stone (Each stone deals 2d6 damage to undead); Wall of Fire (Deals double damage to undead). Feats Consecrate Spell (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562806&postcount=219) (Imbue your spells with the energy of Pure Good, p. 79-80, Complete Divine); Disciple of the Sun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562853&postcount=220) (Spend two Turn Attempts and Destroy Undead, p. 80, Complete Divine); Divine Accuracy (Spend one turn/rebuke undead to grant all allies within 60-ft. radius burst ability to reroll their miss chance with melee attackes whenever they miss a foe because of a miss chance caused by incorporealness, p. 26); Empower Turning (multiply turning damage roll by 1-1/2, p. 26); Enduring Life (you can ignore the effect of negative levels for 1 minute per constition score bonus); Energise Spell (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569643&postcount=238) (Your spells channel positive energy to deal extra damage to undead creatures but are less effective against other creatures, 50% more and less respectively p. 26); Ghost Scarred (You are adept at fighting incorporeal undead, +2 insight bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls against incorporeal undead. You also gain a +2 bonus on all saving throws made to resist the spells or abilities of incorporeal undead, p. 27); Heighten Turning (You can affect more powerful undead with your turning or rebuking attempts; you add a chosen number, no higher than your level to turning check and substract this from undead damage, p. 27); Lasting Life (You can shed negative levels with an act of will, a standard action, DC=10+1/2 attacker's HD+attacker's Char modifier, may repeat each round, p. 28); Quicken Turning (You can turn or rebuke undead with a moment's thought, free action, once per round, p. 29); Requiem (Your bardic music affects undead creatures, but for half duration, p. 29); Sacred Vengeance (You can channel energy to deal extra damage against undead in melee, as a free action, spend one of your turn undead attempts to add 2d6 points of damage to all your successful melee attacks, at end of round, p. 30); Sacred Vitality (You can channel positive energy to gain protection from damage to your abilities of your life force, a standard action, you can spend one of your turning attempts to gain immunity to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain for 1 minute); Spurn Death's Touch (You can channel divine energy to remove some of the harmful effets of attacks amde by undead creatures, spend a turn attempt, standard action, heal 1d4 points of ability damage, roemove a pralysis effect or remove a negative level, p. 30); Unquenchable Flame of Life 9You are harened to the attacks of the undead, +2 bouns on all saves against the extraordinary or supernatural abilities of the undead); Vampire Hunter (Your knowledge of vampires has given you the extraordinary ability to detect subtle signs of their presence and to resist their dominating gaze ability, take a move action to unfailingly determine whether a vampire or vampire spawn is within 30' of you. In addition, you are immune to the dominating gaze ability of vampires and vampire sapwn, p. 31). Specific Spells Ectoplasmic Armour (+5 armour bonus to AC, +1 bonus/4 caster levels, p. 64); Ectoplasmic Feedback (Any incorporeal creature that hits you takes 1d6 points of force damage +1 point per caster level, maximum +10, p. 64); Protection from Negative Energy (DR 10 for attacks caused by negative energy, p. 70); Sheltered Vitality (This spell from LM makes the caster immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability drain or damage for 1 min/level, p. 71); Spark of Life (makes undead vulnerable to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, and damge to its physical ability scores [though it still lacks a constitution score and can't take constitution damage]. It loses its immunity to effects that require a Fortitude save, as well as its invulnerability to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects, p. 71); Spawn Screen (Prevents you from coming back as an Undead if you copped it p. 71); Undead Bane Weapon (weapon gains +2 versus undead, +2d6 damage, at caster level 9 weapon gains +1 enhancement bonus if not already a magical weapon, p. 72) PrCs Master of Radience-PrC from LM that is made specifically for fighting undead. Banes of the Undead - to Build Spells, Spell-like Abilities, Supernatural Powers that create Auras that modify Undead's Saves, DC Checks, Attacks and Skill Checks downwardly; Knocking out the Will Saves of sentient Undead; ways of Improving Turn Attempts, using magical modifiers; ways of "Quickening" Turn Undead Attempts; and the converse, ways of imbuing normal spells with Turn Undead; poisoning Undead flesh, like the Necrotic spell series on the living, but in reverse; spells for downwardly modifying assailants that draw on energy from the Positive Material Plane. Juxtapositioning Power - Things to Compare New Powers to Undead Graft & the Pale Master (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568911&postcount=226).
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 04:08 AM	Traits of the undead type include: Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning disease, and death effects. Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undeath to death as I mentioned before is just like circle of death except that it targets undead and uses a Will save in place of Fort. Positive Energy effects aren't Death Effects - they're life-giving effects. The Unlife to Life series occupy a strange 'no-man's land' in D&D. Undeath to Death is a 6th level spell. Emergent questions are if a 6th level spell can do Undeath to Death, what can a 9th level spell do to an Undead?, with a specific, narrowed focus; Using a Turn Attempt, and combining 9th level magic, what more can you do?; and Positive Energy, as shown by positoxins, allow us to affect Undead metabolism. Positoxin-ism - or the Lore of Positoxins, generalised, should be able to be extended into magical effects. Discuss. Kind Regards stav
Demonfey 10-23-05, 04:15 AM	Just be glad you have yet to see an elemental savant undead. That'd be confusing and probably immune to positoxins (hard to poison something without anything to poison)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 04:19 AM	yes, *smiles* positoxins require a corporeal body. regards stav
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 04:42 AM	Positive Energy effects aren't Death Effects - they're life-giving effects. That was the unimportant part anyway. "Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)." The flesh of the undead is merely an animated object, after all. A poison that worked on undead would have to ignore the flesh and concentrate on the energy/will that was driving it. What was the thrust of this discussion again? I missed it, having got into it late in the game. I have a tendency to avoid extremist alignment based guilds, being a staunch neutralist myself. Some series of spells involving undead was it?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 04:51 AM	That was the unimportant part anyway. "Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)." The flesh of the undead is merely an animated object, after all. A poison that worked on undead would have to ignore the flesh and concentrate on the energy/will that was driving it. [b]What was the thrust of this discussion again?[b/] to the bold: the spells Unlife to Life (Minor), Unlife to Life, Unlife to Life (Major). 5th, 7th and 9th level respectively. In a nutshell, you imbue your body with energy from the Positive Energy Plane, hold the charge, then on your next Turn Attempt, you infuse the Turn Undead with the charge so held. When the Undead is struck (ranged touch attack), they are filled with life-affirming energy. Poison to Undead flesh. Failed fort save on target results in the Undead being brought back to life, provided time constraints aren't exceeded by the time they've been dead. I'm looking at fort (not will), for reasons cited, noting Positoxin precedent. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 04:52 AM	"Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)." How does a positoxin fit into the quoted analysis? Positoxins target the Undead, specifically, the residue of their metabolism. The PHB rules don't accommodate positoxin lore, without modification.
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 05:10 AM	I imagine positoxins are a non-core item that doesn't mesh with the general scheme of things. Poorly written, IMO, if it targets a biological metabolism that doesn't exist as a poor excuse to exploit the generally weak Fortitude saving throws of undead that were typically only intended to be used in object-destruction type situations. Next you'll target the metabolism of an iron golem with poison. I reiterate that an undead's metabolism, if it can be said to have one, is spiritual in nature rather than biological and any attacks made upon it should be resisted by will. Life is a matter of body, and when it resists negative energy it gets a Fort save. Undeath is a matter of spirit and when it resists Life, therefore, it should get a Will save. That is what you're talking about - driving the will of the undead from its own flesh by making said flesh inhospitably life-ish.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 05:44 AM	I imagine positoxins are a non-core item that doesn't mesh with the general scheme of things. Poorly written, IMO, if it targets a biological metabolism that doesn't exist as a poor excuse to exploit the generally weak Fortitude saving throws of undead that were typically only intended to be used in object-destruction type situations. Next you'll target the metabolism of an iron golem with poison. I reiterate that an undead's metabolism, if it can be said to have one, is spiritual in nature rather than biological and any attacks made upon it should be resisted by will. Life is a matter of body, and when it resists negative energy it gets a Fort save. Undeath is a matter of spirit and when it resists Life, therefore, it should get a Will save. That is what you're talking about - driving the will of the undead from its own flesh by making said flesh inhospitably life-ish. It's an interesting area. Again, it comes down to purism on the one hand and evolution of powers on the other. When I peruse Libris Mortis, Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Psionics Handbook - all Core Rules supplements - every PHB rule is broken. Positoxins - do expoit Undead metabolism. They move the boundary of conventional thinking about Fortitude and Undead. Reasonably, IMO. It's reasonable to think that Undead flesh can be poisoned by Holy water infused with Positive Energy. There's a problem with your argument as well. Not all Undead have Wills, to hold their flesh together. Again, no matter which way you go with this, it's not possible to put an argument together that is inviolate. When you have the Necrotic Cyst series, that have no saves at all - again, this breaks the rules, on Necromancy. Since when does Necromancy prohibit Will save? One could argue that Positive Energy - that which is channeled through the Turn Undead attempt - unmakes the Undead flesh (see comment on Undead sans mind) and that combining this with a powerful, 9th level spell, should be enough. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 05:50 AM	Next you'll target the metabolism of an iron golem with poison well, yes, if a reasonable method can be invented, that exploits Golem "metabolism". Every creature has unique vulnerabilities, at the end of the day, yes? :) stav
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 05:58 AM	There's a problem with your argument as well. Not all Undead have Wills, to hold their flesh together. Yes they do. The Will may not be their own, or sentient, but it is there perforce. It may be a primal, elemental will, but it is there. One could argue that Positive Energy - that which is channeled through the Turn Undead attempt - unmakes the Undead flesh (see comment on Undead sans mind) and that combining this with a powerful, 9th level spell, should be enough. It may unmake or repel the undead energies that drive the flesh, but the flesh is just dead flesh like any other dead flesh. And we know that positive energy has no inherently destructive effects on dead flesh (quite the opposite as a matter of fact). I can see the infusion of positive energy restoring some manner of life to the dead flesh and thus driving out some of the negative energy; but again the only way for the undead to resist this is with its own energies rather than some physical biological reaction - a Will save rather than a Fort. Such a poison that restored 1 Con point to an undead would be quite detrimental to it. A devious notion.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 06:47 AM	Yes they do. The Will may not be their own, or sentient, but it is there perforce. It may be a primal, elemental will, but it is there. um, spells like Hide from Undead add to this bit "Nonintelligent undead creatures are automatically affected and act as though the warded creatures are not there" (PHB, p. 241) Not all Undead can use Will in the way we think of it. It may unmake or repel the undead energies that drive the flesh, but the flesh is just dead flesh like any other dead flesh. And we know that positive energy has no inherently destructive effects on dead flesh (quite the opposite as a matter of fact). I can see the infusion of positive energy restoring some manner of life to the dead flesh and thus driving out some of the negative energy; but again the only way for the undead to resist this is with its own energies rather than some physical biological reaction - a Will save rather than a Fort. Such a poison that restored 1 Con point to an undead would be quite detrimental to it. A devious notion. Indeed, to the bold, this is the basis of the spell Spark of Life which restores all Fortitude vulnerabilities to Undead. Although, as noted, an initial Will save is required by the spell. @all I'd say it's unclear, at best. Holy Water damages undead flesh, and will has nothing to do with it. Ditto for Turn Undead attempts, that destroy Undead by way of Positive Energy. Their flesh is also vulnerable to particular 'toxins'. The Positoxins - and spell-like Lore that utilise these powers. Libris Mortis is the authoritative Tome on Undead and was specially developed to help us understand Undead strengths and weaknesses. It's exploration of ways to exploit Undead fortitude are shameless in their meanderings - and why shouldn't they be :) Ways have been specifically developed, on the assumption that their flesh can be 'poisoned' by Holy+Positive Energy infusions. It makes sense to me that injecting an Undead with Holy Water+Positive Energy would hurt it irrespective of the Will behind the sentience. Given that a Cleric can make liquids from thin air, it's not a leap of the imagination to conclude that a Spell can target undead flesh, not the will behind it. The Undead to Life series, imbue the flesh of Undead with a powerful infusion of Holy Power and Positive Energy. It's an injection of life. It isn't hard to imagine that the spell-semantics, when you learn it, teach you how to sever or isolate Will or mind, as the spell modifies metabolism. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 06:52 AM	....under Type, p. 74 Libris Mortis "The positoxin's method of delivery, and the Fortitude save DC to avoid the positoxins' damage. and ...."Positoxins are special alchemical substances distilled from holy water and laced with positive energy. To a corporeal undead creature, a positoxin functions much like a poison, usually dealing initial and secondary ability damage or drain when the target fails a Fortitude save...." (p. 74) Libris Mortis, p. 21 Disintegrate is a special case that bears mentioning. Though this spell has no special effect against undead creatures, the fact that such creatures have very low Fortitude saves makes disintegrate terrifically effective at destroying them.... Analysis The commentary hints at some special exceptions to the general rule about Fortitude saves..... hang on, still trying to find the Fort save excerpt.... "....while the immunities of undead creatures are indeed useful, they come at a heavy price. Having no Constitution score means an undead character rarely makes Fortitude saves, but when he does--such as against disintegrate spell--his save modifier is often woefully low....." (Libris Mortis, p. 31) (bold face not in original)
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 07:39 AM	um, spells like Hide from Undead add to this bit "Nonintelligent undead creatures are automatically affected and act as though the warded creatures are not there" (PHB, p. 241) Not all Undead can use Will in the way we think of it. But, according to the strictest measure of the rules, they have some sort of malevolent will powering them (aware or not), for even when they are neutral they are still largely treated as Evil. I'd say it's unclear, at best. Holy Water damages undead flesh, and will has nothing to do with it. Ditto for Turn Undead attempts, that destroy Undead by way of Positive Energy. Their flesh is also vulnerable to particular 'toxins'. The Positoxins - and spell-like Lore that utilise these powers. Holy Water doesn't inherently damage the undead's flesh, nor do turn attempts. These clearly afflict the fleshless portion of the undead (as evidenced by their effects on fleshless undead) and any ensuing damage to the flesh is as a result of the undead energy's reaction to the effects in question. Libris Mortis is the authoritative Tome on Undead Non-core tomes are hardly authorititative when it comes to core material. It makes sense to me that injecting an Undead with Holy Water+Positive Energy would hurt it irrespective of the Will behind the sentience. It makes sense to me that it would hurt the undead, injected or not. I'm not disputing that at all. Given that a Cleric can make liquids from thin air, it's not a leap of the imagination to conclude that a Spell can target undead flesh, not the will behind it. Nor do I dispute that spells can target undead flesh. Spells that affect objects - like disintegrate, for instance... The commentary hints at some special exceptions to the general rule about Fortitude saves... Not a special exception at all. Undead can specifically be affected by spells that can target and harm objects (and make Fort saves against such spells exactly as an object/construct might). Disintegrate is such a spell. The only special exception there is the poorly conceived non-core positoxin. Casting a healing spell (positive energy) on an undead while dousing it with holy water will indeed hurt it. There's no reason it should poison it, however, and even if it did there's no reason it should be a Fortitude saving throw. Note that when hit with a Cure spell the Undead gets a Will saving throw to resist the life-giving damage.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 07:55 AM	okay, hi tenz, We're stuck with Tomes beyond PHB, it seems, and while this is annoying sometimes, it's also a good thing. Dunno, 'bout 'poorly' conceived - what's one man's trash is another's treasure. It's actually a sensible concept. It makes intuitive sense and adheres to Folk Lore on vampires. They are unnatural creatures that must obey some natural laws. About 'what actually happens to Undead' when you hit 'em with positive energy, again, our Tome, Libris Mortis assists us Positive Energy Rotting sinews, missing tendons, and decomposing flesh flex in an obcene parody of life when they are flushed with negative energy. Additional quantities of negative energy even heal damage done to undead (see Undead Metabolism, earlier in this chaper). Thus, it should come as no surprise that the opposed energy of the multiverse, positive energy, has significant deleterious effects on moldering flesh. Using Positive Energy: When positive energey is channeled and brandished by servitors of good-aligned deities, undead can be turned or even destroyed in a flash. Evil servitors may also choose to use positive energy to destroy undead, or subvert the intentions of even intelligent undead to their own purposed by holding this powerful force over their heads. In general, a spell that channels positive energy deals as much damage to an undead creature as it would heal damage in a living creature. Healing effects that don't rely on positive energy (such as some psionic powers) have no effect on undead. If you can maneuver yourself into position to touch an undead creature, you can deal a significant amount of damge with a cure spell or a heal spell. Ranged options include the mass cure wounds spells, mass heal, and disrupt undead. Holy water also uses positive energy to damage undead creatures, and a paladin's lay on hands ability deals damage to undead creatures just as cure spell does. (p. 20)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 08:01 AM	...and Positoxins Positoxins are special alchemical substances distilled from holy water and laced with positive energy. To a corporeal undead creature, a positoxin functions much like a poison, usually dealing initial and secondary ability damage or drain when the target fails a Fortitude save. The ability damage or drain dealth by most positoxins can't reduce an undead creature's ability score below 1. Despite their normal immunity to damage or drain to physical ability scores (Str and Dex), undead are vulnerable to the ability damage or drain caused by positoxins. These substances actually break down the physical form of the undead, while simultaneously interfering with the unholy energies that keep the undead creature animated. In fact, any damage dealt to an undead crature's Str or Dex by a positoxin is actually permanent ability drain, making such substances feared indeed by such creatures..... (p. 74)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 09:21 AM	@jagggar Evil servitors may also choose to use positive energy to destroy undead, or subvert the intentions of even intelligent undead to their own purposed by holding this powerful force over their heads. You were right about channeling positive energy as an "Evil servitor"! One imagines the Deity is watching, with this one, though. regards stav
Sargatanas 10-23-05, 03:07 PM	Does anybody else think this is getting a tad bit obsessive?
gabrion 10-23-05, 05:15 PM	Hey everyone, there's been a lot of good discussion lately on this thread. Sorry I've not been keeping up. On the topic of PEP=good and NEP=evil, I think the most important point brought up was Sil quoting info about those planes. While niether one is described as being evil or good, the rhetoric around them definately makes the PEP sound like a nice fuzzy place and the NEP like a bad place. I think it is fair to loosely generalize them as being related to good and evil, even if only on an instrumental level. As for the Undeath to Life series, I need to look over them a bit more, but at first glance I don't know if I like the idea of undead being brought back to life. Seems fishy. Then again, I'm not sure that was the whole point, so I will take a closer look when I get a chance. Fort saves for undead are usually for times when they are treated as objects, but positoxins do a good job of confusing the issue. Will try to RP when my head stops spinning.
Tenzhi 10-23-05, 05:44 PM	okay, hi tenz, We're stuck with Tomes beyond PHB, it seems, and while this is annoying sometimes, it's also a good thing. I don't mind tomes beyond the PHB as a rule. Some of them have good stuff in them. Draconomicon has some good stuff in it (and some bad stuff), and Lords of Madness has some very interesting stuff in it. On the other end of the spectrum there's the Books of Vile Darkness and Exalted Deeds (and, I'm beginning to think, Complete Arcane - but given that the previous 3E Arcane spellcaster splatbook was a hefty load of unadulterated crud that comes as no surprise to me). But good or bad, their rulings are to be taken with a grain of salt. They're the holistic medicine of gaming. Dunno, 'bout 'poorly' conceived - what's one man's trash is another's treasure. It's actually a sensible concept. It makes intuitive sense and adheres to Folk Lore on vampires. They are unnatural creatures that must obey some natural laws. I think what I really mean is "poorly executed." Conceptually I have no quarrel with poisoning undead. I have a problem with the execution of it that treats it precisely like poisoning a living creature. That doesn't make sense, intuitive or otherwise. It goes against the nature of undeath as we know it. As to whether undead are unnatural... that's a debate for another time. About 'what actually happens to Undead' when you hit 'em with positive energy, again, our Tome, Libris Mortis assists us Exactly how is Libris Mortis assisting us here? We know that Positive Energy damages undead from the core rules. Libris Mortis isn't even really expanding on the application, it's just reiterating it with flavour text mixed in. The only interesting bit to me is: Holy water also uses positive energy to damage undead creatures So positoxin is a mixture of positive energy laced with positive energy. Brilliant. Positoxins are special alchemical substances distilled from holy water and laced with positive energy. To a corporeal undead creature, a positoxin functions much like a poison, usually dealing initial and secondary ability damage or drain when the target fails a Fortitude save. The ability damage or drain dealth by most positoxins can't reduce an undead creature's ability score below 1. A poison for undead should affect all undead as it should attack the basic nature of undead. And as it functions *much* like a poison, it doesn't need to function *entirely* like a poison and thus should use a Will save. The only reason it should need a corporeal undead is to have a physical method of keeping it in contact with the undead. Despite their normal immunity to damage or drain to physical ability scores (Str and Dex), undead are vulnerable to the ability damage or drain caused by positoxins. These substances actually break down the physical form of the undead, while simultaneously interfering with the unholy energies that keep the undead creature animated. In fact, any damage dealt to an undead crature's Str or Dex by a positoxin is actually permanent ability drain, making such substances feared indeed by such creatures..... (p. 74) We know that breaking down an undead's physical form won't affect its ability scores - whether there's any tissue on its arm or not it will swing it the same. So the drain must actually depend entirely on the interference with its energies and any effects on the physical form are circumstantial. That the drain is permanent is all the more reason it shouldn't rely on a Fortitude save.
Demonfey 10-23-05, 06:22 PM	Does anybody else think this is getting a tad bit obsessive? Not really. Normally, Sil'd be on the tenth page of this by now... ;)
jagggar 10-23-05, 06:32 PM	Not really. Normally, Sil'd be on the tenth page of this by now... ;)Check the number.
Demonfey 10-23-05, 06:42 PM	Sil began this conversation on page two. That's a whole page short.
jagggar 10-23-05, 06:48 PM	I still don't know what Good is - given this.... Well, since you didn't like my Thumb Wars answer, I'll try to give you a more serious answer. What sort of a question are you looking to answer about Good? Are we talking about the alignment or the descriptor? (I think I'll start distingusing the descriptor by saying [Good].) The sorts of spells that would be [Good]? The sorts of spells that Good (Alignment) would use? What sort of reactions creatures of Good alignment should have to others (such as undead)?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 09:43 PM	Hi everyone - ya gotta laugh! :) 'ang on, lemme have two secs, to catch up. (and let's see if I can find a new Vomitronic Inspiration from Libris Mortis) *vomits* (I'm channeling from the Plane of Southpark, specifically, Kyle) stav
Demonfey 10-23-05, 09:47 PM	Mmmf, mmmfmfmfmmf, mm, mMmmmmf. *foot comes out of nowhere* *Splat* Can you guess which one I'm channeling?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 09:49 PM	@Tenzhi, But good or bad, their rulings are to be taken with a grain of salt. They're the holistic medicine of gaming You're a good sport, Tenz. :) About the new Tomes, overall, they operate on the assumption of cross-portability of powers between classes. That's Axiom Two of Game Balancing principles A power in D&D is accessible to classes outside the parent class, in a bi-directional manner What Libris Mortis and Tomes like it do, is suspend assumption, and then make derivates of powers, from an 'outside the square' basis. The core defining feature, when importing powers should look at the picture from a 'balancing mechanics' point of view and a its RP consistency That one's Axiom Three. :) I'll re-work those in nicer words, for us....soonish... next - jagggy!
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 09:50 PM	Mmmf, mmmfmfmfmmf, mm, mMmmmmf. *foot comes out of nowhere* *Splat* Can you guess which one I'm channeling? THEY KILLED KENNY! YOU :censored:
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 09:58 PM	@Gabrion As always, well said, Gabe. You're right about Libris adding new ideas into what can and can't happen to Undead. Well, since you didn't like my Thumb Wars answer, I'll try to give you a more serious answer. Do so like it! *smiles* What sort of a question are you looking to answer about Good? Are we talking about the alignment or the descriptor? (I think I'll start distingusing the descriptor by saying [Good].) The sorts of spells that would be [Good]? The sorts of spells that Good (Alignment) would use? What sort of reactions creatures of Good alignment should have to others (such as undead)? That's exactly the way to go with this jagggs. We do need an answer from the game-mechanics point of view - the Descriptor Good will come with specific strengths and weaknesses. (Question 1, above) And then, the RP/Realism dimensions need consideration (Your question two) And then - good point - do they or don't they have access to an alignment. And again, that last question is spot on. By the way, I'm buidling that kinda profile for the Silverstarfire Descriptor. I've blocked access to Ne-creepy-mantic magic, spells with the Darkness descriptor, and spells with the Evil descriptor. I'm rebuilding Versos using some methodological constraints - and I'm (madly) *smiles* formulating some Game-Balancing tools for appraising power. more GoPG Powers incoming...... (gotta get me hair cut, in about 15, but will be back, and am still here for a while). stav
Demonfey 10-23-05, 10:04 PM	Sil, you have about nine pages of powers. It's a good start, right?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 10:09 PM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of The Holy Over the Noncorporeal Undead Whoever pointed out that noncorporeals are distinct to the 'fleshy' kina Undead, I think is spot on. The area I've been mulling over, asks What special vulnerabilities to noncorporeal Undead have that can be exploited, developed into game powers and elaborated upon; What residue of Metabolism does a noncorporeal Undead have, given wisdom from Folk Lore, that could be developed into a Lore, that is akin to, but still distinct to the Lore of the Positoxin? and, I've been thinking about the whole area of "undead sinew" - I thought Eowyn's (I am woman hear me roar) felling of the Undead at Minas Tirith. The Witchking had Undead Sinew that was Unmade by a special blade, wielded by a someone who was a WOman, not a man. This is very interesting, and I've been wondering what it was about the combination that lead to the unravelling of the Undead sinew. This area of Folklore may help us understand how to approach the development of powers that affect the Undead. Kind Regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 10:12 PM	Sil, you have about nine pages of powers. It's a good start, right? You mean only nine pages. *chuckles* There's so much work to be done and so little time. *feet shuffle*+*smiles* *cracks* Sil-7-of-9-ian: The Plane of Southpark has the descriptor humourous and is Perfection. Clerical Powers that channel from this plane also channel from the Positive Energy Plane. Our next spell is Hallowed Humour. *pulls it together*
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 10:18 PM	To Get Us Thinking about "What" Undead Sinew Is “Éowyn, Éowyn, White Lady of Rohan, in this hour I do not believe that any darkness will endure!” And he stopped and kissed her brow. And so they stood on the walls of the City of Gondor, and a great wind rose and blew, and her hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air. And the Shadow departed, and the Sun was unveiled, and the light leapt forth. . . . For morning came, morning and a wind from the sea; and darkness was removed, and the hosts of Mordor wailed, and terror took them. And all of the host of Rohan burst into song, and they sang as they slew, for the joy of battle was on them, and the sound of their singing that was fair and terrible came even into the City. From J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Return of the King. © 1955, J.R.R. Tolkien. AND check out this image http://www.meduseld.btinternet.co.uk/eowyn_howe_nazgul.jpg
Demonfey 10-23-05, 10:21 PM	Sil, think about it. You have this much stuff devoted to only one enemy type. You have also single handedly increased the amount of posts here a few times over with your posts. And all your stuff will have to be approved by GMs, and they'll have trouble with this amount alone.
gabrion 10-23-05, 10:26 PM	Sil, think about it. You have this much stuff devoted to only one enemy type. You have also single handedly increased the amount of posts here a few times over with your posts. And all your stuff will have to be approved by GMs, and they'll have trouble with this amount alone. I do agree that it is more work for the GMs, but the general idea of compiling stuff like this doesn't seem too bad to me. After all, one of the chief enemies of good in many of the games I've played (D+D and otherwise) is the undead. Necromacers, liches, zombies, wraiths...all easily identifiable enemies of good and targets that can be dealt with with some moderate planning and use of tactics. This seems like the appropriate place to develope such stuff. I may be wrong (cause I wasn't around back in the day), but I thought one of the original functions of many of the guilds was to create things relating to their ethos. If that's the case, then I think the GoPG talking about stuff like this is in line.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 10:29 PM	and....back soon. :) "Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!" A cold voice answered: "Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye." A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may." "Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!" Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him." The Return of the King: "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields," p. 116
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-05, 10:32 PM	Sil, think about it. You have this much stuff devoted to only one enemy type. You have also single handedly increased the amount of posts here a few times over with your posts. And all your stuff will have to be approved by GMs, and they'll have trouble with this amount alone. Truthfully - project work works in bursts, over certain areas. I'm in Porject Research & Deve mode. There's a whole Tome for one creature type - Libris Mortis - first - so - focus is no problem. But, once an area is thoroughly looked at, anothe can become the focus. Also - no-one's stopping anyone else developing their own ideas, concurrently, it's all good. This foundation was dead in the water, two weeks ago. It's good to give it and injection of life and positive energy. It needed it. The forum is top heavy with evils. I would also encourage others to develop whatever powers they like at whatever foundations. It's not like there's a limit to these things. :) gotta go regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 12:20 AM	A New School of Magic - Necromancy Doesn't have a Sister Hi everyone. I've been thinking. Necromancy is a school of magic concerned with channeling Negative Energy. You use it to steal life, make bodies sick and syphon life. There is no such "Anti-Necromancy" school of magic, and there should be. We need a name for such a school that is all about super-living status. next post, some options for names. stav
Demonfey 10-24-05, 12:28 AM	Yes necromancy does. It's called the healing domain.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 12:50 AM	Yes necromancy does. It's called the healing domain. Hi DF, "Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife, and the life force. Spells involving undead creatures make up a large part of this school. Representative spells include cause fear, animate dead, and finger of death, PHB, p. 174 *flicks to Raise Dead spell* "Conjuration (Healing)" PHB, p. 268 *flicks to Cure Light Wounds* "Conjuration (Healing)" PHB., p. 216 regards stav
Demonfey 10-24-05, 12:55 AM	Still, you are obsessing about one type of enemy. Have you seen them worry about positive energy that much? No. They only worry about it sometimes when I bring it up. You have obsessed about it for quite a few pages here, and in the HEF.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 01:06 AM	Some Thoughts About "Anti-Necromancy" Conjuration (Healing) - well - I suppose we should let that be, but for a new group of spells, that utilise Positive Energy from the PEP..... The main problem with the PHB is that not all Conjuration spells, draw on energy from the PEP. I've been reviewing The Three Elven Rings - that seem to me to be the sort of "Spirit World" power from the general area that might apply. Interestingly, there are no antonyms for Necromancy in the On-Line Antonym/Synonym Dictionaries, I've been looking at. But indirectly, throught the word "Natural", here are some ideas: Innovation Conception Excogitation Birth Nascency Invigoration Vibrant Enlivened Enlivenation (made up from Enliven + "ation") regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 01:08 AM	Still, you are obsessing about one type of enemy. Have you seen them worry about positive energy that much? No. They only worry about it sometimes when I bring it up. You have obsessed about it for quite a few pages here, and in the HEF. thanx, but you leave me be, and I'll do my thang, and you yours, kindly, good sir. I don't tell GoUE people how to think or what to build. That's their business. regards stav
Demonfey 10-24-05, 01:09 AM	You realize that if it gets approved, I gave them a tool that will negate all this, right?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 01:15 AM	You realize that if it gets approved, I gave them a tool that will negate all this, right? Realistically, the number of anti-good tools (that specifically target good) outnumber those that specifically target evils. It's the GM that would need to see the process, product or item you're focussed upon, if it's non-core. Whatever your motivation for doing and saying what you do - I'm here to be what I am and do what I do best. ta stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 01:16 AM	....we're up to ten pages..... *grins* - that's eleven, including this post -
Demonfey 10-24-05, 01:22 AM	Item: death's touch armor. Protects from positive energy the way soulfire armor protects from negative energy (in other words, completely.) Uses Life Ward (take death ward, replace negative energy with positive energy.) Just telling you exactly what the item is. Now a challenge: develop something to counter it.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 01:46 AM	Item: death's touch armor. Protects from positive energy the way soulfire armor protects from negative energy (in other words, completely.) Uses Life Ward (take death ward, replace negative energy with positive energy.) Just telling you exactly what the item is. Now a challenge: develop something to counter it. Nice! We'd expect no less from a well-prepared set of Creepy-Evils. new spell incoming....
Demonfey 10-24-05, 01:51 AM	Also, it has to be a group effort (after all, what's the fun in having one person dominate the entire project?)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 01:57 AM	Hallowed Humour (From the New School - Name Pending) Level: Cleric, Good ? Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Area of Effect: 60' radius centred on the caster Target: caster + designated allies in area of effect Duration: 24 hours Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes Description This spell imbues the recipients with an infusion of Holy power, and positive energy, whilst amplifying hope & optimisim in the recipients. It is a powerful life-enhancing spell that has two effects. First, it grants immunity to all morale-reducing spells, including effects of spells like Emotion. The spell also grants +4 to all Fortitude saves (due to the infusion of Positive Energy) and +4 to all Will saves (due to the fortification of Will through Holy Humour). The recipients consciousness resonates with powerful affirmations from the Spirit World as if the person is being supported by thunderous magical cheering and applause.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 02:01 AM	Also, it has to be a group effort (after all, what's the fun in having one person dominate the entire project?) Of course group projects are fun, and I strongly support that initiative. Three things, however: 1. People are encouraged to create their own inventions - I am humanly incapable of stopping another's will. 2. It's not my responsibility what people decide for themselves - I richly encourage others to participate. However, this Guild had no activity previously. Ergo, any additional posting from others is a great benefit. 3. And there's plenty of posting room for everyone. There's also the 'contagious' effect of an active poster. When I was GM, I used to sigh with relief when a strong poster came on board. They were a motivational engine for others. Ever heard the saying 'your energy's contagious'. Positive Energy - the energy of creation - is 'catching'. so - in summary @all BRING IT ON - THERE'S PLENTY FOR EVERYONE
Demonfey 10-24-05, 02:04 AM	Unfortunately, that's the only thing I got, so I need it to last long enough for new ideas.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 02:10 AM	Unfortunately, that's the only thing I got, so I need it to last long enough for new ideas. hmmm - you've, and indeed everyone's an engine of creativity. There's literally an infinity of discovery within you, waiting to happen. I do a couple of things, to get ideas happening: 1. I put myself in positions of threat there's nothing like being scared to trigger the survival instinct; 2. I meditate. In the stillness of either the day or the night, when there are no sounds, and only the beautiful stillness of our beautiful living experience, they 'pop' into our heads. *looks at you, no matter who you are* within you is untapped potential. To access it, you need to make a leap of faith - and 'let go' of everything that is certain. Creativity comes from the lands of uncertainty And when codified, it's then part of the realm of certainty (well, in the semi-permanent sense). :) be happy! Live! Let others Live! Celebrate! Forgive! Transcend and Transform
thasis 10-24-05, 09:48 AM	Ok... I don't mean to sound offensive or anything, but what was so great about LotR? It's a book (or trilogy I should say) written quiet a few years back by some guy who liked elves and violence. He quiet obviously had something against tryanny and facism, and his stuff wasn't that great. I didn't even bother reading the last book (mainly cause I was lazy). The movies were good... because they were violent, and violence apeals to todays audience. Hell look at half of the movies out there. But honestly... what makes LotR so much better then those so many other FR and Dragonlance books out there... or even the Wheel of Time series, or any other Fantasy series or setting?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 10:03 AM	Ok... I don't mean to sound offensive or anything, but what was so great about LotR? It's a book (or trilogy I should say) written quiet a few years back by some guy who liked elves and violence. He quiet obviously had something against tryanny and facism, and his stuff wasn't that great. I didn't even bother reading the last book (mainly cause I was lazy). The movies were good... because they were violent, and violence apeals to todays audience. Hell look at half of the movies out there. But honestly... what makes LotR so much better then those so many other FR and Dragonlance books out there... or even the Wheel of Time series, or any other Fantasy series or setting? hiya thasis! it's not offensive to ask that at all :) Your comments are lucid (on the ball) where you talk about him not liking tyranny and facism, that's fer sher (but about violence, Tolkien lost 21 of his 29 friends in WWI. They say he grieved their loss all his life and their passing inspired his legacies and his mythology). I also absolutely love FR materials and can honestly say the writers' stuff is of such epic proportions with events like Karsus Avatar spell, and the rich mythology about the Weave getting Split (in one set of theories), during the Time of No Magic. The way the histories speak of the Crown Wars and the Imaskarian legends. And the Flying Cities. Evereka, mythals, Telemont Tanthul and the City of Shades. There's a great deal from FR to build into the Guild of Pure Good. Your comments are very timely. regards stav
jagggar 10-24-05, 11:36 AM	Ok... I don't mean to sound offensive or anything, but what was so great about LotR? It's a book (or trilogy I should say) written quiet a few years back by some guy who liked elves and violence. He quiet obviously had something against tryanny and facism, and his stuff wasn't that great. I didn't even bother reading the last book (mainly cause I was lazy). The movies were good... because they were violent, and violence apeals to todays audience. Hell look at half of the movies out there. But honestly... what makes LotR so much better then those so many other FR and Dragonlance books out there... or even the Wheel of Time series, or any other Fantasy series or setting? He wrote a myth, not a fantasy novel (or rather trilogy). IIRC, his goal was to write a great myth/legend for England. How many languages have FR and Dragonlance created? And I mean more than "okay, I say in draconic..." Tolkien came up with grammer, words, histories for those words. . . Now I'm a lazy bum, and haven't gotten past the first book. I listened to The Hobbit on audio. On the other hand, there's a lot about LotR that doesn't mesh with D&D. From what I can recall, the way I understand it, from several seminar type things you wouldn't have wizards in the D&D sense running around. Don't Gandalf's powers come from the gods? (Since I haven't read it my termonolgy proably sucks.) Now I'm gunna have to be silenced before I go on some sort of a 'how dare you dismiss one of the Inklings' rant.
Demonfey 10-24-05, 01:54 PM	Want inspiration for fighting the undead (and anything else, now that I think about it...)? Look into the Hellsing manga series. Specifically, numbers 1 and 6. Keep your eyes open for the words "Vatican", "Section XIII", "Iscariot", "Zealot Judas", and "Paladin Anderson". For something a little more subtle, check out # 2, look for the name "Walter" used near "Angel of Death". If you'll now excuse me, I have some weaponry to design with Walter's weaponry in mind...
thasis 10-24-05, 06:07 PM	I like Undead. But destroying them tends to be fun to. My current project is converting Magic of the Gathering cards into D&D and I think some of the spells there might be good against undead. I'll have to check though...
Demonfey 10-24-05, 06:13 PM	To quote Walter against an army of undead called ghouls (think zombies, just called something else): "Too slow! Ghouls are only ghouls in the end. Putting their persistence to work was a good idea...But as you'll see! This army's far from IMMORTAL or INVINCIBLE." *entire army is sliced to pieces with a pulling of wires.* Which leads to my new magical weapon Gloves of bladed destruction: The wearer of these gloves can make up to five +1 vorpal razorwire garrotes from rings placed on each finger. To use them correctly, the wearer must have exotic weapon proficiency (razorwire garrote), weapon finesse, and a dexterity of at least 20. Incorrect use results in a mess due to the user being caught in the wires and the enemies getting better handholds. The garrotes, when used this way, attach to both gloves, limiting reach to 25 feet with them, and each does slashing damage. Three times a day, the gloves allow the user to increase the number of wires so that dozens of wires can hit multiple targets in what could be considered a web of razor sharp wires until either concentration is broken or all targets are dead/out. To use this, the user must stand stock still, and if they move, the effect ends as the wires all snap off the rings and all enemies are freed. Each target within a half circle of twenty five by fifty feet is caught in the web, and it takes an pair of opposed escape artist checks to escape unharmed, against a grapple check made by the wearer. If the first check succeeds and the second fails, then the person is partially trapped, and roll a d4 to find out if it's a limb or limbs, 1 and 3 being one arm or one leg, 2 and 4 being both arms or both legs, taking 1d4 a round from razorwire cutting into their limbs. This takes an escape artist check of 20. Failing all rolls means that they are completely unable to move, and that takes an escape artist check of 40 to escape, taking 2d4 damage a round. Succeeding both rolls means you escape the web unharmed. Armor, even full plate, is cut by it as though with a sword, so it doesn't help as much as some would think. In other words, treat as giving the feat sunder for situations involving its entanglement power. Each victim is on a different roll, and if there is a critical roll on a twenty, after confirmation, the target is killed. Each wire does 2d4 damage, plus 1.5 times the strength modifier. For a more "person friendly" approach, the garrote wires can be made so that they don't cut things to bits. This use can wrap around items and be used to bring them closer. It can retrieve weapons (sleight of hand 20), be used to catch people falling without any really severe damage (such as being cut into tiny portions from the wire and gravity), using a Use rope check in combination with a sleight of hand check. Finally, it can also be used as a scaling tool, to a certain degree. Cost: 72,000+20,000+500=92,500 gp Need decapitating scarf spell to make, CL 14.
Master_of_Flames 10-24-05, 06:37 PM	To quote Walter against an army of undead called ghouls (think zombies, just called something else): "Too slow! Ghouls are only ghouls in the end. Putting their persistence to work was a good idea...But as you'll see! This army's far from IMMORTAL or INVINCIBLE." *entire army is sliced to pieces with a pulling of wires.* Which leads to my new magical weapon Gloves of bladed destruction: The wearer of these gloves can make up to five +1 vorpal razorwire garrotes from rings placed on each finger. To use them correctly, the wearer must have exotic weapon proficiency (razorwire garrote), weapon finesse, and a dexterity of at least 20. The garrotes, when used this way, attach to both gloves, limiting reach to 25 feet with them, and each does slashing damage. Three times a day, the gloves allow the user to increase the number of wires so that dozens of wires can hit multiple targets in what could be considered a web of razor sharp wires until all targets are out. Each target within a hemisphere twenty five by fifty feet is caught in the web, and it takes an pair of opposed escape artist checks to escape unharmed, against a grapple check made by the wearer. If the first check succeeds and the second fails, then the person is partially trapped, and roll a d4 to find out if it's a limb or limbs, 1 and 3 being one arm or one leg, 2 and 4 being both arms or both legs, taking 1d4 a round from razorwire cutting into their limbs. This takes an escape artist check of 20. Failing all rolls means that they are completely unable to move, and that takes an escape artist check of 40 to escape, taking 2d4 damage a round. Succeeding both rolls means you escape the web unharmed. Armor, even full plate, is cut by it as though with a sword, so it doesn't help as much as some would think. In other words, treat as giving the feat sunder for attempts to protect from it. Each victim is on a different roll, and if there is a critical roll on a twenty, after confirmation, the target is killed. Each wire does 2d4 damage, plus 1.5 times the strength modifier. Cost: 72,000+20,000+500=92,500 gp OMFG!!! just two good aligned characters can take out half of sargantas's army, or any other army for that matter. edit: what is a garrot?
Demonfey 10-24-05, 06:43 PM	Wire normally used to strangle someone to death. Like piano wire, except made for it. Also, it requires a couple feats and a certain dexterity to use, as well as something I forgot to mention. Anyway, imagine how deadly an SBB member would be with them, especially your ninja.
Aramar the Black 10-24-05, 06:43 PM	He wrote a myth, not a fantasy novel (or rather trilogy). IIRC, his goal was to write a great myth/legend for England. How many languages have FR and Dragonlance created? And I mean more than "okay, I say in draconic..." Tolkien came up with grammer, words, histories for those words. . . Now I'm a lazy bum, and haven't gotten past the first book. I listened to The Hobbit on audio. On the other hand, there's a lot about LotR that doesn't mesh with D&D. From what I can recall, the way I understand it, from several seminar type things you wouldn't have wizards in the D&D sense running around. Don't Gandalf's powers come from the gods? (Since I haven't read it my termonolgy proably sucks.) Now I'm gunna have to be silenced before I go on some sort of a 'how dare you dismiss one of the Inklings' rant. True. He was linguist, and anicient tales like Beowulf intrigued him. He felt that the great stories, cultures, and languages of anicient times had been degraded. Elves were once powerful demi-gods, kings of the starry realms. Now what are they but Santa's comical helpers, miscevious creature with odd clothing, leprechauns or sprites? (Note that, in his time especially, fantasy and sciece fiction were pretty much unheard of, and things like D&D didn't exist.). The Gnomes, Greek for knowledge,learning, and wisdom, represented in Tolkien as the greatest of the inventor elves, were now nothing but pathetic lawn decorations. He wanted to rewrite and fairy tales and folklore of the people into the epic stories and truths that they once might have been. He stories were revolutions, they are epic, they give us views on how we know see mythical creatures like dwarves and elves. The existence of violence is a subset of the major theme of loss, which encompasses feeling of death, degration, and broken hearts. Tolkien saw the world as losing stories and languages, he lost his friends in WWI, and he hated to see the nutural world being loss to the tyrannical and destructive uses of machinery. Personally, I find his work to be descriptive, epic, deep, and interesting. There are lots of good books out there now which tend to attract me with exotic notions, interesting peoples, and new languges, but rarley are these works as woven and deeply created as the works of Tolkien. And he adds a wonderful level of personality with the characters. I find books like The Killer Angels and the Cronicles of Thomas Covenant interesting for similar reasons. Oh, and jagggar, Gandalf himself was a demigod of sorts in mortal form, whihc restricted his powes in a way. -Thank you for reading this by one who has read the LotR, The Hobbit, and The Silmarillien.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 06:58 PM	To quote Walter against an army of undead called ghouls (think zombies, just called something else): "Too slow! Ghouls are only ghouls in the end. Putting their persistence to work was a good idea...But as you'll see! This army's far from IMMORTAL or INVINCIBLE." *entire army is sliced to pieces with a pulling of wires.* Which leads to my new magical weapon Gloves of bladed destruction: The wearer of these gloves can make up to five +1 vorpal razorwire garrotes from rings placed on each finger. To use them correctly, the wearer must have exotic weapon proficiency (razorwire garrote), weapon finesse, and a dexterity of at least 20. The garrotes, when used this way, attach to both gloves, limiting reach to 25 feet with them, and each does slashing damage. Three times a day, the gloves allow the user to increase the number of wires so that dozens of wires can hit multiple targets in what could be considered a web of razor sharp wires until all targets are out. Each target within a hemisphere twenty five by fifty feet is caught in the web, and it takes an pair of opposed escape artist checks to escape unharmed, against a grapple check made by the wearer. If the first check succeeds and the second fails, then the person is partially trapped, and roll a d4 to find out if it's a limb or limbs, 1 and 3 being one arm or one leg, 2 and 4 being both arms or both legs, taking 1d4 a round from razorwire cutting into their limbs. This takes an escape artist check of 20. Failing all rolls means that they are completely unable to move, and that takes an escape artist check of 40 to escape, taking 2d4 damage a round. Succeeding both rolls means you escape the web unharmed. Armor, even full plate, is cut by it as though with a sword, so it doesn't help as much as some would think. In other words, treat as giving the feat sunder for attempts to protect from it. Each victim is on a different roll, and if there is a critical roll on a twenty, after confirmation, the target is killed. Each wire does 2d4 damage, plus 1.5 times the strength modifier. Cost: 72,000+20,000+500=92,500 gp a 'garrot' is like gutting something. The 'Garroting Deep' was a place in Stephen Donaldson's one land where a flayed, Raver was 'hung up to swing in the wind'..... *high school girl screams* (joking, erm) *baritone scream* They are nasty, df! :) It's the wire thing that's 'rude' towards the needs of safety for a flesh-and-blood being! @MoF G'day MoF - good to see you! :) @thasis Hail! Great Threadkeeper @about the FR-D&D - Tolkien similar/diffierence/like/dislikes ......
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 06:59 PM	@jagggar + All I've read LotR, oh, I forget, it's somewhere over the 25 times mark. The Silmarillion has grown on me - but I've only read it about 5 times. You're right - his languages were amazingly crafted. His legends and mythology spanned tens of thousands of years. I'm still learning about things implied and left hinted at, to this day. Just when you got your head around his first prophesy, you discover the Second Prophesy of Mandos. I wish I was an Elf being the lament of a High School kid, in a gruesome High School environment, where brutish violence and popularity got you everywhere - at least for a little while - until everyone gets sick of violence and abandon's the perpetrators (happened in the 20's to 30's). More trolls than Elves around in High School, some might say. At least in my time. It's the courage to be unguarded that defines adult maturity, in one school of thought. Good Magic or White Magic is the stuff I've been thinking of, for GoPG, and there are definitely trails of it in Tolkien's world to think about. For example, Glorfindel at the Ford of Bruinen - who is tantalisingly hinted at as 'having crossed over to the spirit world' and Elves existing 'here and in the Other World'. This was Arcane-ish lore. Glorfindel was an "Elf Lord". I think the new school of magic might bear upon this. Regards stav (any names people can think of? I'm going to develop a whole cluster of new spells, that technically, you could put in other schools - but that I'll cluster into a new school). :)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-05, 07:02 PM	@Aramar Wires Crossed - it was your post, I was thinking about in combo with jagggs Hello Aramar!!! :)
Demonfey 10-24-05, 07:20 PM	Made an edit to my new "toy", which says that basically, the user must concentrate on the effect and stay still during its special attack.
jagggar 10-25-05, 12:27 AM	. . . . . .ga-rrot. . . *twitchtwitch* Cuts through Meat and Bone. Deeper, deeper. . . *twichtwitch* *twitch* Woah, boy. No, can't make Asami-esque character. I am not a dancer with injured hips. I do not hate men that much. *twitch*twitch* Okay, Audition mode is bad. Audition probably make Stav vomit-y. Breath in, breath out. Whew. . . Okay, Earlier I meant to say what the opposite of necromancy is, right before I got the blue screen of death. (Hmm. . .) Necromancy necro + mancy necro = death mancy = magic death magic death opposite life life magic life = bio bio + mancy Biomancy
Demonfey 10-25-05, 12:32 AM	Actually, that was supposed to be Walter. He's the butler in the Hellsing manga, and is a retired field agent. The Hellsing agency is dedicated to hunting and killing undead, their top rank hunter being a vampiric science experiment that is nearly indestructible known as Alucard. Walter (the butler, quite possibly my favorite character due to how he always seems so calm, even when destroying an entire undead army) was known as the Angel of Death in his time, and those gloves there are his signature weapons.
Demonfey 10-25-05, 02:10 AM	. . . . . .ga-rrot. . . *twitchtwitch* Cuts through Meat and Bone. Deeper, deeper. . . *twichtwitch* *twitch* Woah, boy. No, can't make Asami-esque character. I am not a dancer with injured hips. I do not hate men that much. *twitch*twitch* Okay, Audition mode is bad. Audition probably make Stav vomit-y. Breath in, breath out. Whew. . . Thinking about this, I just wondered who's Asami (besides a dancer with injured hips that apparently really doesn't like men.) I didn't even know about the whole gutting meaning of garrot. I just meant the wire that assassins use to strangle people.
jagggar 10-25-05, 02:44 AM	Thinking about this, I just wondered who's Asami (besides a dancer with injured hips that apparently really doesn't like men.) I didn't even know about the whole gutting meaning of garrot. I just meant the wire that assassins use to strangle people. She's from a Japanese movie called Audition. Not for the squimish. *glances at Stav* Razor wire can be used for more than you're standard garrot attack. :D But be warned, I've shown it to some of my friends and they think it drags on too long.
Demonfey 10-25-05, 02:54 AM	You mean like wrapping around an individual and pulling it just exactly so that it slices them down like wheat to an over enthusiastic reaper with a scythe and impressive speed (in other words, three horizontal pieces if you're lucky, mismatch of parts if you're not). Or catching someone around the arm, only to have them pull so hard they rip off their own limb? Just to note, both of these occurred in the manga, novel 2. So I put into the final product at the Materials approval thread...also, some not so lethal uses.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 04:08 AM	She's from a Japanese movie called Audition. Not for the squimish. *glances at Stav* Razor wire can be used for more than you're standard garrot attack. :D But be warned, I've shown it to some of my friends and they think it drags on too long. Razortronic, Vomitronic toys! *vomits* :) It sounds like a gross-o-rama movie! *chuckles* Biomancy - BY GOD, I THINK SHE HAS IT! from the Greek Bios (pronouned veeos) - or "to give life" (from on-line ancient greek dictionary)zoopoieo - which is a mouthful - zoopoieomancy um, in latin Vivomancy, or Animancy....... Looks like Biomancy fits nicest so far :)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 04:28 AM	Disrupt Undead Metabolism Biomancy Level: Cleric, 5 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. per level) Effect: Ray Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates Spell Resistance: Yes Description This spell exploits the vulnerabilities of Undead metabolism by imbuing the Undead flesh with an injection of living, vibrant biomatter, that is highly energised with crackling creative potential energy. When the Cleric casts this spell, a living-green ray - as green as a spring-time bud, emerges from the caster. The ray is imbued with the vital essence of life, and is literally the unformed native essence of life. It is like a protease or living ectoplasm or germ plasm. This substance is completely harmless to living flesh, but to corporeal undead, it is a deadly threat to their very sinew. The biomatter is anathema to Undead sinew, because it is a force that represents the very antithesis of Undead metabolism. Once the living plasm enters the Undead body, it encases the flesh, from within, which acts as a powerful blockage to the connection an Undead has to the negative material plane. Literally, the Undead flesh is starved of its source of power, by the 'smothering' effects of living protoplasm in the Undead's body. The effect of the spell is to totally subvert the equivalent of Undead metabolism, making Unlife unsustainable. On failed Fortitude save (DC=10+Spell Level+Ability Mod), the Undead's flesh is destroyed, reduced to a lifeless puddle. A successful fortitude save results in 2d6 HP of damage to the Undead's body, for 1d4 rounds.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 04:39 AM	Comment on Biomancy and Biomantic Magic It is not quite right to describe Biomancy as merely positive energy, because biomantic magic is much more. Like Necromancy, Biomancy does rely on an energy source, but just as it is wrong to say that Necromantic spells are negative energy, Biomantic spells are not really positive energy. Instead, Biomancy is power over life or magic that influences, creates, or modifies living metabolic processes. It is particularly threatening to Undead because Biomancy has the power to restore Undead metabolism to what it was before it was altered. It has numerous other uses as well, such as the power to fortify one or several organs, including the brain, or to modify animal metabolism to make it plant like, or vice-versa. Just as you can think of any process life relies on or utilises, Biomancy may alter, influence or reproduce this. Biomancy is the Spark of Life.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 04:43 AM	Comment on Healing, Raise Dead and other similar Spells, Spell-like effects or Supernatural Powers Healing spells, spells that raise the dead or otherwise similar effects, have the descriptor Conjuration (Healing). Biomancy probably better reflects the 'essence' of these spells, but for the sake of ease, none of the existing spells in the PHB or otherwise will be modified to attract the Biomancy descriptor. Only new spells that utilise this power will be so characterised.
Aramar the Black 10-25-05, 07:45 AM	Interesting magic, Sil. However, i must say that the name Biomancy does not taste good in my mouth. Bio-, to me, always sounds to sciencey, and -mancy is actually divination, and thus necromancy is using the dead to tell you secrets of somewhere or something. Pyromancy does the same with fire, and arithmancy uses mathematics to tell a person's personality and character according to thier name. Granted, I cant find any translation source right now to tell me what the Latin or Greek words are for magic or life, but I'm just putting my two cents in. Take it as you will.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 09:53 AM	Fair enough, Aramar. @all I'm finding the term growing on me (pun intended). If anyone can think of another term - please do tell! Vivomancy was the Latin derivative. Ambidexterity Biomancy Level: Cleric, 3 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Touch Target: One Living Creature Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes Description As the Cleric's mastery over living processes increases, she develops an understanding of the Divine power and how it exerts influence over mind and body. This spell enhances the efficiency of neuromuscular coordination resulting in improvements in how weapons are balanced, wielded and utilised in melee. When cast, the recipient receives the equivalent benefit of the Two Weapon Fighting feat.
thasis 10-25-05, 10:02 AM	You did forget to put the spell descriptor (Like Necromancy, Evocation, Divination, etc). If you want my opinion I think it's a Necromancy spell, because it's directly to do with effecting the undead and the such which fits best under the Necromancy field.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 10:06 AM	Force Corporeal Biomancy Level: Cleric, 4 Components: VSM, DF Casting Time: 1 Action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. per level) Area of Effect: 30 ft. Radius Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates Spell Resistance: Yes Description When this spell is cast, the Cleric creates a crackling gaseous semi-transparent field of living protoplasm fortified with Positive Energy. When a non-corporeal Undead enters this field, or when this spell is cast upon non-Corporeal creatures, the Undead's connection between their Will and their non-corporeal 'flesh' is severed through the cloistering Positive Energy. The protoplasmic field then coheres to the non-corporeal Undead sinew, supplanting Positive Energy for Negative Energy, and transfigures the very organisation of the Undead flesh. The result is that the Undead's sinew solidifies, coalescing around the Positive Energy.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 10:12 AM	You did forget to put the spell descriptor (Like Necromancy, Evocation, Divination, etc). If you want my opinion I think it's a Necromancy spell, because it's directly to do with effecting the undead and the such which fits best under the Necromancy field. Hi thasis. Necro comes from the Greek Necropolis - and means power over the Dead. Refers to things on the other side, control over the dead as dead things. Biomancy does exert influence over the dead - and here's the crucial bit - by imposing Life, Living energy and the "spark of life" on the dead and in so doing, altering their metabolic processes and causing them to lose their Undead or Dead descriptors. It's debatable, though. In any case, you can see from the spell series how they have a specific focus. regards stav
Ashariana 10-25-05, 11:57 AM	Wait.. let me get this straight. To beat Sargatanas you've made an entire new type of magic, which both copies old feats and the last one actually does the same thing as a spell from Libris Mortis. I think, you didn't actually say what the spell does, its all flavor. This all just seems a little... overboard to me... I mean... you've taken all this time just to come up with ways to beat Sargatanas more easily. Besides, how do you make an entirely new spell school? It just isn't done, there are set schools and they have to be used. Unless of course you just want an easy way around calling it Necromancy ;) Necromancy spells manipulate the power of death, unlife, and the life force. Spells involving undead creaturs make up a large part of this school... Thats from the players handbook, so uhm... your spells fall under necromancy. Except ambidexterity, that falls under transmutation.
Tenzhi 10-25-05, 12:05 PM	and, I've been thinking about the whole area of "undead sinew" - I thought Eowyn's (I am woman hear me roar) felling of the Undead at Minas Tirith. The Witchking had Undead Sinew that was Unmade by a special blade, wielded by a someone who was a WOman, not a man. This is very interesting, and I've been wondering what it was about the combination that lead to the unravelling of the Undead sinew. The Witch-King was fleshless. The reason he was unmade could best be taken from Allanon's explanation of magic and the Sword of Shannara (in the book of the same title) as regards the power of belief and legend. As for residue of metabolism... corporeal undead have no physical metabolisms as a general rule. Think of corporeal undead as spiritual energy holding together dead flesh. Undead don't need muscles to generate strength, they don't need flexible joints or good hand-eye coordination to be dexterous (if anything, the flesh itself may slow them down if their dominance of it is less than willful - compare zombies to skeletons, for instance). No matter how much you disrupt the flesh, you won't affect them in the manner proscribed by positoxins. Indeed, what flesh will you even disrupt with a skeleton? In what manner will you infuse its supposed physical metabolism? And what of a flesh golem? Same setup as a zombie (even uses animate dead), only without the undead type (of course, zombies and skeletons should really be typed as constructs as well, but that's a different argument altogether). Oh the many levels on which it just doesn't conceptually work as described...
Tenzhi 10-25-05, 12:09 PM	Wait.. let me get this straight. To beat Sargatanas you've made an entire new type of magic, which both copies old feats and the last one actually does the same thing as a spell from Libris Mortis. I think, you didn't actually say what the spell does, its all flavor. This all just seems a little... overboard to me... I mean... you've taken all this time just to come up with ways to beat Sargatanas more easily. To be fair, it's not like Sargatanas is the originator of undead. They're a common enough foe throughout D&D and the forces of Good are always coming up with new ways to combat them. Now, if he were using an army of rabid tribbles and these were all spells directed at the combatting of tribbles you might have a point.
Wilds 10-25-05, 12:12 PM	To be fair, it's not like Sargatanas is the originator of undead. They're a common enough foe throughout D&D and the forces of Good are always coming up with new ways to combat them. Now, if he were using an army of rabid tribbles and these were all spells directed at the combatting of tribbles you might have a point. ya but all that effort just to wipe out sargantas. Does that mean that we should make powers and spells to wipe out elves faster? Seems fun to me
Tenzhi 10-25-05, 12:28 PM	ya but all that effort just to wipe out sargantas. Does that mean that we should make powers and spells to wipe out elves faster? Seems fun to me Go right ahead. I'm the Elf-Bane and have no problem with it. But again, to be fair, "Elves" is still a narrower target than "Undead" - the latter encompassing an entire monster type all on its own, and one that is commonly fought by the forces of good. Two classes in the PHB already posess a number of special powers to fight undead. Conversely, one class can choose to get a bit of a bonus against elves in many situations. In the general scheme of things, elf-slaying will probably be quite a bit less common than undead-slaying. But that's no reason not to engage in elf-slaying. I wholly endorse such efforts. Really, creating new ways to fight undead isn't something new. You can probably find various and sundry undead hunter classes and prestige classes posted on these boards as it is, along with special items and powers for the task. Will you say that all those people were constructing their classes and items specifically to battle Sargatanas as well? As I mentioned on another thread, he has no room to complain about people wiping out his armies with various shiny powers of holiness - he set himself up for that fall by choosing "undead" to be his army in the first place. That's like putting a flashing sign on your forehead that calls out to every Paladin and Cleric across the land to Smite You. When you choose such a cliched army of evil, Light will destroy you in an appropriately cliche fashion. And then like a caricature of villainy you'll probably go around rueing things or threatening to make others rue them.
Ashariana 10-25-05, 12:55 PM	Go right ahead. I'm the Elf-Bane and have no problem with it. But again, to be fair, "Elves" is still a narrower target than "Undead" - the latter encompassing an entire monster type all on its own, and one that is commonly fought by the forces of good. Two classes in the PHB already posess a number of special powers to fight undead. Conversely, one class can choose to get a bit of a bonus against elves in many situations. In the general scheme of things, elf-slaying will probably be quite a bit less common than undead-slaying. But that's no reason not to engage in elf-slaying. I wholly endorse such efforts. Really, creating new ways to fight undead isn't something new. You can probably find various and sundry undead hunter classes and prestige classes posted on these boards as it is, along with special items and powers for the task. Will you say that all those people were constructing their classes and items specifically to battle Sargatanas as well? As I mentioned on another thread, he has no room to complain about people wiping out his armies with various shiny powers of holiness - he set himself up for that fall by choosing "undead" to be his army in the first place. That's like putting a flashing sign on your forehead that calls out to every Paladin and Cleric across the land to Smite You. When you choose such a cliched army of evil, Light will destroy you in an appropriately cliche fashion. And then like a caricature of villainy you'll probably go around rueing things or threatening to make others rue them. And if he hadn't chosen something cliche that would be able to be combatted, then we'd all be under the iron fist of Sargatanas at the moment. Of course undead are a common enemy, but Silmarien appeared here after the fight with Sargatanas, RIGHT after, and started listing off ideas and ways to fight and re-kill undead. That seems like trying to make something just to fight him to me, but uhm... yeah, thats my opinion (I think its his as well).
Wilds 10-25-05, 01:27 PM	I agree with u Ashariana. To much of a concidence to not mean anything
gabrion 10-25-05, 01:53 PM	I agree with Tenzhi on this one (damn it all! :yuck: ).
jagggar 10-25-05, 02:22 PM	Actually it's not really gross/bloody/etc. until you find out what happened at the Stone Fish (I think that was the place's name). Then it's a bit longer, and then Stav leaves the theater. See, there's the whole little bit of getting the new school approved. Why? 'Cause I'm not convinced a whole new school is needed. Necromancy includes spells that "manipulate the power of death, unlife, and the life force." I think I've even seen someone argue before that if not the cure spells, that the raise dead series should be part of necromancy. And there's quite the intersting precendent when it comes to anti-undead spells being necromancy: Ranged touch attack of positive energy that deals 1d6 to undead (no save unlike the Cure spells). And it even happens to be a 0-level spell. It's called disrupt undead.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 06:01 PM	Hi everyone, A few things, and good morning. The Living are terrified of the Undead, and have been slow to create wards, protections and ways to prevent their lifeforce being snuffed out. It's a realistic character motivation to create beings that are safe from Undead, especially the big ones: Liches, Demiliches, and the really mean ones. It really doesn't matter what school you call the school. :) Could be starfish if you like. Or barley. Or Vegemite. While precedents do exist, for positive energy and Necromancy (I have seen that possy taken about a year and a half ago at Races), that doesn't mean there's not a better way of conceiving a specific school of magic that manipulates metabolic processes. In Folk Lore, Necromancy isn't really about Life it's about the Dead. Necromancy, Necrophilia, Necropolis, Necrosis. Magic over the dead, love of dead bodies, a place where the Dead are gathered, and a dead part of living flesh. Those terms don't really represent Health, Fortified Bodies, Elevated Wellbing, Mastery over the Living Metabolism. They're onto it in the Psionics Handbook. Psychometabolism is a specific "school" of Psionics that's about manipulation of the body....... regards stav
Demonfey 10-25-05, 06:05 PM	Psionics is different. This is because they are not technically schools, but rather different aspects of a psion's mental workings, the chosen of which being their preferred aspect.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 06:07 PM	It's an interesting area of Metaphysics - please discuss! :) While Undead don't have "flesh" in the way we think of flesh, they once were flesh. Negative Energy fortifies what's left of what they were, and as Tenzhi has pointed out, their Will is involved. Excepting Zombies and Skeletons, that are really just mindless actions (there's a spell in Libris Mortis that actually give mind to lesser Undead. Again, another rule broken). Further, in being made into Undead, the metabolism is subverted, the link to Positive Energy plane severed and a new link is forged to the Negative Energy plane. This process can be reversed - not with Necromancy (although you can call it what you like) - and the link to the negative plane severed, the Undead's bodily processes severed from their link to Negative Energy (the source of power for the Undead Will) and then the body's metabolism subverted - again - but back in the direction of Life. Hence the Infusions I've been working on..... regards stav
Demonfey 10-25-05, 06:11 PM	Look into incarnum and necrocarnum. They can probably help a bit.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 06:12 PM	Psionics is different. This is because they are not technically schools, but rather different aspects of a psion's mental workings, the chosen of which being their preferred aspect. That's don't matter so much - psionicists, will as you've pointed out, use a different process to achieve the same ends. Clerics, though, have under-developed powers over Body, in D&D - and they wield Positive Energy - the Force of Creation - they should be able to fortify muscular structure, make the brain work more efficiently, alter metabolic processes to expel or protect against poisons, modify bone architecture, alter the functions of sensory organs, alter digestive metabolism at need, and many other things, I've been thinking about the last few days. Biomancy is much much broader in scope than influence over the Undead. regards stav
gabrion 10-25-05, 06:14 PM	I think I've even seen someone argue before that if not the cure spells, that the raise dead series should be part of necromancy. Someone can corect me if I'm wrong, but weren't cure spell a part of the necromacy school in former versions of the game? A lot people I know think it is utterly silly for cure spell to be conjurations (almost as bad as the orb spells), and I think it makes perfect sense for all life/death related spells to be under necromancy. It really is the school of magic that handles power of life, whether in a nice way or a mean one. I personally don't think a new school is needed, but as always, I think debate is healthy so carry on. :)
Demonfey 10-25-05, 06:15 PM	You have yet to make it so, Sil. That seems to be the current verdict on it, anyway. If you want people to look at is as something other than necromancy with a different name, then you first have to make it unique from other schools.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 06:21 PM	Hello Gabe, *Grabs AD&D Players Handbook Copyright 1978* *flicks to Cure Light Wounds* Cure Light Wounds (Necromantic) Reversible yes right one - how are you by the way? :) but Necropolis, Necrotic, Necromancy, and Necrophiliac - speak to things in the Otherworld. It doesn't feel right to say that a spell that makes your heart twice as big, or that speeds up your metabolism, or that fortifies your haemoglobin so that you can endure Altitude Sickness is really Necromancy. Bio is the right word - even if it sorta reminds us of Science. Vivo as in Vivomancy - is the latin way of getting around people's earthly associations, although, I like the term biomancy. It grows on you. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-05, 06:24 PM	You have yet to make it so, Sil. That seems to be the current verdict on it, anyway. If you want people to look at is as something other than necromancy with a different name, then you first have to make it unique from other schools. There's two kinds of resistance to a new idea. One is about the conceiver, the other about the receiver. Prior post, for some new data for you. Again, the Greek "Necro" was never designed to be used by Physicians and Medicos - that's like calling a Druid a Necromancer Gotta go, now - have an early start.
jagggar 10-25-05, 08:11 PM	That's don't matter so much - psionicists, will as you've pointed out, use a different process to achieve the same ends. Clerics, though, have under-developed powers over Body, in D&D - and they wield Positive Energy - the Force of Creation - they should be able to fortify muscular structure, make the brain work more efficiently, alter metabolic processes to expel or protect against poisons, modify bone architecture, alter the functions of sensory organs, alter digestive metabolism at need, and many other things, I've been thinking about the last few days. Biomancy is much much broader in scope than influence over the Undead. regards stavBut clerics are servants of the gods, and not all gods care about how the body works and such. The other weekend, PBS rebroadcast a program on DaVinci's glider and giant crossbow. Quite humorously, the people building them made modern modifications to the plans, and upon failing they tried DaVinci's designs which worked better than our modern ideas. Between the bending of the bow and flying of the glider, they looked at some of his other sketches and inventions. One showed how the heart pumped, something our doctors only discovered in the last century or so. Another was a quite amazing joint that you could use for the shoulder in a robot. They asked if perhaps DaVinci thought he could create a man himself. But his work had to stop on it because the church would have his hind for necromancy.
Master_of_Flames 10-25-05, 08:17 PM	necro- latin for black mancy- latin for magic necromancy- black magic That's the way I see it... And clerics are the most powerful class in the party, they alone decide whether or not the party continues on or not, by merely refusing to come to his firneds aide if they get in trouble.
thasis 10-25-05, 08:26 PM	Mmm... back a bit you had the discussion about being obssessive against the anti-undead. Now I can agree with both sides here. You see it is kinnda obssessive to constantly make spells that are anti-undead especialy when fighting Sargantas as the main enemy. But on the other hand, if a person is fighting a battle when outnumbered (or any battle realy) then WHO wouldn't try to create new ways of defeating there enemy? Plus these can be used in a normal campaign against undead to. Not JUST this campaign.
Master_of_Flames 10-25-05, 08:42 PM	Indeed. With sargantas's permission, I'd like to use him as the BBEG in my game..
Aramar the Black 10-25-05, 09:07 PM	I think we have different notes: Here's what I keep getting, and the differences could be profound, in some cases: Necro-: Greek for Dead, Corpse -Mancy: Greek for Prophecy, prophecising
gabrion 10-25-05, 09:16 PM	Could someone please translate eudymonia from greek to english for me? :D
Tenzhi 10-26-05, 12:35 AM	Cure spells were shoehorned into Necromancy in previous editions because they didn't have a good place for 'em and Cleric spells weren't created with schools in mind. IMO, Necromancy shouldn't be a school in itself, it should be part of a school. Sort of like you had Invocation/Evocation as one school previously. There should be a school focused on the manipulation of both positive and negative energy that Necromancy should be a part of, with a positively focused counterpart. And if he hadn't chosen something cliche that would be able to be combatted, then we'd all be under the iron fist of Sargatanas at the moment. At which point it would be expected that the populace would come up with some method of specifically combatting him, most likely centered on a single champion of the cause. That's the way the whole good~evil thing works. And Evil always thinks it's unfair. This is why Neutral prefers to live around Good, because it's slightly less whiny and megalomaniacal.
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 12:39 AM	Ah, but remember the balance of power. If a strong force of good is destroyed, an even stronger one must come in sometime to take its place. And if a strong evil was destroyed (like sargantas) an even stronger one must arise.
Tenzhi 10-26-05, 12:48 AM	Ah, but remember the balance of power. If a strong force of good is destroyed, an even stronger one must come in sometime to take its place. And if a strong evil was destroyed (like sargantas) an even stronger one must arise. Of course. It's like the power escalation of the cold war, only with less cold and more war. And I wouldn't be surprised if the next force of evil was very good at Elf-Slaying. Indeed, I'd hope for such a thing with all of my heart if my chest weren't a hollow cavity filled with emptiness and loathing.
jagggar 10-26-05, 01:12 AM	Of course. It's like the power escalation of the cold war, only with less cold and more war. And I wouldn't be surprised if the next force of evil was very good at Elf-Slaying. Indeed, I'd hope for such a thing with all of my heart if my chest weren't a hollow cavity filled with emptiness and loathing.chibi jagggar leap-tackle-hugs the Elf-Bane again. How often do good characters share this idea of balance?
Demonfey 10-26-05, 01:16 AM	One out of every twenty five or fifty, I'd think.
Tenzhi 10-26-05, 01:32 AM	I'd say that most proactively Good characters are at least marginally aware of the balance, but refuse to accept it as it makes their efforts seem an exercise in futility. Meanwhile, Evil characters by nature seek to overthrow the balance as a matter of course. Both sides are obsessed with "winning" by defeating the other. Hrm. But I'm waxing introspective again. Why does Chibi Jagggar remind me of a kitten-facehugger hybrid?
Demonfey 10-26-05, 01:33 AM	I don't know. Strange imagination?
Tenzhi 10-26-05, 04:58 AM	Also, I think working around the root word "Vital" would yield better results for a name. Vitality is the essence of life, or something very much like it. So how about Vitamancy? Vitamancy is sure to ward off scurvy. No? Well, most of the schools end in -ation, so hows about Vitćtion? But the problem with being in Vitćtion is that you're always being sent out to recruit people for the party.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 06:40 AM	:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: GO TEAM GO!! GO TEAM GO!! by the way - did anyone notice my reference to VEGEMITE. pleeeassse say you've heard of Vegemite. It should have come out in one of those Dundee *vomits* movies. *end Cheer-Squad Cycle* *elevator music resumes* please enjoy our programming for the evening. On tonight's show, rather than lose sleep over nomenclature (naming conventions), we will first summarise some information about the ne-creepy-mantic spells from Libris Mortis. Thank you for flying Guild of Pure Good Airways *air hostesses hand out plastic, shrink-wrapped lembas buiscuits* (small in size - cost cutting) Stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 06:47 AM	But clerics are servants of the gods, and not all gods care about how the body works and such. The other weekend, PBS rebroadcast a program on DaVinci's glider and giant crossbow. Quite humorously, the people building them made modern modifications to the plans, and upon failing they tried DaVinci's designs which worked better than our modern ideas. Between the bending of the bow and flying of the glider, they looked at some of his other sketches and inventions. One showed how the heart pumped, something our doctors only discovered in the last century or so. Another was a quite amazing joint that you could use for the shoulder in a robot. You're a very shrewd woman, Miss Jagggar. :) They asked if perhaps DaVinci thought he could create a man himself. But his work had to stop on it because the church would have his hind for necromancy. *smiles* because they got scared and thought he was messing with Black Magic dare he that brazen, decadent heathen! Imagine defying the conventions of the then, not now church ye who be a blasphemer, who dareth to name that of himself and with the volition of the devil's guile to betwitch thee! BURN HIM AT THE STAKE! Dolly Proctor! BURN THE WITCH! .....*smiles* stav
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 06:56 AM	:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: GO TEAM GO!! GO TEAM GO!! by the way - did anyone notice my reference to VEGEMITE. Yeah, on my little bros tapes, veggie tales. edit: And sil, take a look at the idea of balance of power. If you go by that, that means that there's an even stronger force out there than sargantas, and destroying him would realease that power. Do you realy want your character to be responsible for that?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 07:42 AM	Right then! Today's Vomitronic Inspiration is the Necrotic Bloat spell Necrotic Bloat Necromancy (Evil) Level: Cleric 3, Sorcerer/Wizard 3 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Target: Living creature with necrotic cyst Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None! Spell Resistance: No! You cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst (see spell of the same name) to pulse and swell. *vomits* This agitation of the necrotic cyst tears living tissue and expands the size of the cyst, dealing massive internal damage to the subject. The subject takes 1d6 points of damage per level (maximum 10d6), and half hte damage is considered vile damage (introduced in Book of Vile Darkness) because the cyst expands to envelope the newly necrotized tissue. *vomits* The cyst is reduced to its original size when the vile damage is healed. Vile damage can only be healed by magic cast within the area of a consecrate or hallow spell (or an area naturally consecrated or hallowed). Points of vile damage represent such an evil violation toa character's body or sould that only in a holy place, with holy magic, can the damge be reparied. Focus: Caster must possess a mother cyst. Analysis *clears throat of stomach matter* Um, this spell is one of nine in the Necrotic Cyst series, as follows: Necrotic Awareness (lets you dectect people with a cyst, see below, so you can blow them up with the spells below) Necrotic Bloat (see above); Necrotic Burst (on failed save *death* on successful save, 15d6, level 5); Necrotic Cyst (-2 on saves to resist necromancy. Vulnerability to Necrotic series. Level 2 spell); Necrotic Domination (functions like Dominate Person); Necrotic Empowerment ("you call upon the mother cyst that your body hosts.... +8 to Str, Int, Wis!! and +8 to Natural Armour!! and +5 on Fort saves AND 100 TEMPORARY HIT POINTS. Level 8 Cleric spell); Necrotic Eruption ("you cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst to explosively enlarge iseself at the expense of the subject's body tissue, harming both the subject and nearby creatures. Save for 1d6 per level, capped at 15d6; failed save=death AND everyone within 20 feet, takes 1d6 dam, capped at 15d6!! AND everyone gets exposed to a Necrotic Cyst!!!!!!) Necrotic Scrying (free scrying on a person with a cyst! NO SAVE!!!! Level 2 spell); Necrotic Tumour (OMG! "You cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst to envelop a portion of the brain. On failed save "you gain complete control" of the subject's brain) and the lovely Necrotic Termination (1d6 capped at 25d6 on SAVE, half is vile damage. If you fail, you are not ONLY DEAD, but "killing the subject and devouring the soul. Raide dead, resurrection, true resurrection, wish and miracle cannot return life to the subject once her soul is digested--she is gone forever. A 9th level cleric spell). Next post - a summary of the Necromancy spells in Libris Mortis. Necrotic Burst, Necrotic Eruption, Necrotic Tumor, Necrotic Termination are Fort (Patial) Necrotic Cyst is Fort (Negates) The rest don't have saves.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 07:45 AM	Yeah, on my little bros tapes, veggie tales. edit: And sil, take a look at the idea of balance of power. If you go by that, that means that there's an even stronger force out there than sargantas, and destroying him would realease that power. Do you realy want your character to be responsible for that? *scratches head*
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 07:57 AM	Summary of Necromancy Series, by Desriptor Necromancy (Death, Evil)=6 Necromancy (Death)=1 Necromancy (Evil)=18 Necromancy=12 Total: 25 with Evil Descriptor, 12 with no descriptor. Spectral Touch, Spawn Screen, Kiss of the Vampire, Haunt Shift, Ghoul Light, Ghoul Glyph, Ghoul Gesture, Death Ward (Mass), Bite of the King, and Chill of the Grave are the non-evil ones. If you ask me, only Spawn Screen and Death Ward (Mass) should be exempt. Generally Necromancy is used for evil purposes and with the exception of the spells noted above.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 08:01 AM	just saw another entry, under Ghoul Gauntlet "Your touch gradually transforms a living victim into a ravening, flesh-eating ghoul....The victim takes 3d6 points of damage per round whle the body slowly dies as iit is transformed into a ghoul's cold, undying flesh.....The ghoul that you create remains under your control indefinitely...."
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 08:21 AM	Undead Grafts Undead grafts are formed of nonliving flesh attached to a still-living body, the results of vile experimentation by living necromancers and death priests seeking to become more like what they revere while remaining on this side of death. Grafts have no statistics of their own. A graft might improve some ability or characteristic of the creature it's attached to, or grant the creature some new ability. For example, a graft might grant a creature a natural attack or an inherent bonus to an ability score. Some graftss are capable of indepent action-this usually means that the graft can activate an ability or take an action without the character having to spen an aciton to do so. Such grafts always act on the character's turn. Grafts are not magic items, but in game terms they function very much like magic items. A character with the Graft Flesh feat (see page 27) can create and apply grafts. The creator must be in a quiet anc comfortable setting, usually an alchemical laboratory but in some cases an evil temple or similar locale. He needs a supply of materials, which usually involve flesh or body parts taken from another creature of the appropriate type or kind. The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for crreating the graft. Creating a graft costs half the given market price, and otherwise works exactly like crafting a wondrous item, including time required, preparation of spells required, and expenditure of components, focuses, or XSP required by the spells. A graft does not radiate magic once completed, and it does not count against a creatures limit for magic items worn. It does not have a caster level. A graft is very hard, if not impossible to salvage as treasure. It should be considered to count against the treaure value of the creatue of the graft, which means that creatures with grafts are still appropriate challenges for their normal Challenge Rating, but have reduced treasure. Powers Granted Bonemail: +2 natural AC; Bodak's Eye: death gaze attack once per day; Enervating Arm: +4 inherent to Strength. Twice per day, Enervating Touch, one negative level a go; Eye of Flame: Fireball, 10d6 once per day; Ghostly Arm: Incorporeal Touch, 1d6 points of damage; Mohrg's Tongue: Touch attacks with tongue, Paralysis on failed Fort; Mummified Hand: slam attack; and 3 times per day, mummy rot; Paralysing Arm: +4 inherent bonus to Strength; twice per day, paralysing touch; Skeletal Hand: claw attacks; Undead Skin: 25% resistance to critical hits and sneak attacks, similar to armour of light fortification; Vampire Fangs: 1d4 Con damage to foe per round; Weakening Arm:+4 inherent bonus to strength and 1d6 strength damage, twice per day; Zombie Arm: +2 Inherent bonus to Str; zombie attacks/ Analysis *eyes roll in back of head - like the Bionic Woman when she was rejecting her ear-implant - IN THE SEVENTIES* These items break several rules with regards to magic item creation. Eye of Flame, for example, is effectively a rechargable Wand of Fireballs. Still thinking about the Wand of Fireballs, the limited use in number of times per day of this Undead Graft is a new kind of balancing principle. Grafts are also not salvagable in treasure and are more like Supernatural Powers than spell-like effects. Conceptually they're great, even if they break the rules from Core Rules point of view. Balance wise, they're not too bad. There is one spell, in particular, that really breaks all the rules. It allows a 17th level cleric to destroy characters forever (see Spell Necrotic Termination). regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 08:28 AM	@Gabrion 1 entry found for eudaemonia. eudaemonia n : a contented state of being happy and healthy and prosperous; "the town was finally on the upbeat after our recent troubles" Eudaemonic Spells!!!! Nice Word!
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 08:40 AM	...and all this Necrotic Cystic Bloat Termination Tumor stuff.... MAKES ME DO THIS!!! Fortify Metabolism Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite-ancy Level: Cleric 3 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: One Living Creature Duration: PERMANENT 24 Hours Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes Upon casting this spell, the cleric creates a living, magical beverage that is infused with a combination of Holy power and energy from the Postive Material Plane. It smells like spring-time and tastes like a summer mountain breeze, burning with living vigour. As it passes into the stomach. the recipient is immediately uplifted, and all weariness is expelled from the body, as if the person had just slept a full eight hours. All muscle soreness is eradicated and the target's spirits are lifted, and all hunger and thirst is removed. The spell actually fortifies living metabolism, and the spell has several beneficial effects. First, the target gets +500 25% (+5 on a d20) improved resistance to disease, poisons, and all attacks from Undead that rely on the negative material plane for 100 YEARS 24 hours. This includes negative energy levels; a target is granted a fortitude save to resist Negative Energy levels, constitution drain, ability damage, and any other attack that would normally preclude a savings throw. While fortified by this spell, living metabolism ARE IMMUNE is more resitant than usual to Necromancy spells; the recipient also gains +5 bonus to all Fortitude saves.
thasis 10-26-05, 09:33 AM	I think this spell is to powerful for a 3rd level. A +5 Fortitude ontop of the other stuff? I dunno... get other peoples opinions first however.
Wilds 10-26-05, 10:06 AM	That is rather powerful for a 3rd lev spell Sil. Maybe 5th or 6th? Complete rejuvenation for sleep is really powerful. As long as the cleric casting the spell still prepares every day, then they dont ahve to sleep ever again. And get crazy bonuses on top of that
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 10:37 AM	By PHB standards, I would have to concur (agree). You get Cure Blindness, Protection from Energy, Speak with Dead, Searing Light, Stone Shape, Dispel Magic, Cure Serious Wounds and Create Food and Water as 3rd level Cleric spells. Necrotic Bloat is a Third Level Spell *eyes roll in back of head* have another look at the below. Especially Necrotic Termination and Necrotic Scrying. regards stav Necrotic Bloat Necromancy (Evil) Level: Cleric 3, Sorcerer/Wizard 3 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Target: Living creature with necrotic cyst Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None! Spell Resistance: No! You cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst (see spell of the same name) to pulse and swell. *vomits* This agitation of the necrotic cyst tears living tissue and expands the size of the cyst, dealing massive internal damage to the subject. The subject takes 1d6 points of damage per level (maximum 10d6), and half hte damage is considered vile damage (introduced in Book of Vile Darkness) because the cyst expands to envelope the newly necrotized tissue. *vomits* The cyst is reduced to its original size when the vile damage is healed. Vile damage can only be healed by magic cast within the area of a consecrate or hallow spell (or an area naturally consecrated or hallowed). Points of vile damage represent such an evil violation toa character's body or sould that only in a holy place, with holy magic, can the damge be reparied. Focus: Caster must possess a mother cyst. Analysis *clears throat of stomach matter* Um, this spell is one of nine in the Necrotic Cyst series, as follows: Necrotic Awareness (lets you dectect people with a cyst, see below, so you can blow them up with the spells below) Necrotic Bloat (see above); Necrotic Burst (on failed save *death* on successful save, 15d6, level 5); Necrotic Cyst (-2 on saves to resist necromancy. Vulnerability to Necrotic series. Level 2 spell); Necrotic Domination (functions like Dominate Person); Necrotic Empowerment ("you call upon the mother cyst that your body hosts.... +8 to Str, Int, Wis!! and +8 to Natural Armour!! and +5 on Fort saves AND 100 TEMPORARY HIT POINTS. Level 8 Cleric spell); Necrotic Eruption ("you cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst to explosively enlarge iseself at the expense of the subject's body tissue, harming both the subject and nearby creatures. Save for 1d6 per level, capped at 15d6; failed save=death AND everyone within 20 feet, takes 1d6 dam, capped at 15d6!! AND everyone gets exposed to a Necrotic Cyst!!!!!!) Necrotic Scrying (free scrying on a person with a cyst! NO SAVE!!!! Level 2 spell); Necrotic Tumour (OMG! "You cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst to envelop a portion of the brain. On failed save "you gain complete control" of the subject's brain) and the lovely Necrotic Termination (1d6 capped at 25d6 on SAVE, half is vile damage. If you fail, you are not ONLY DEAD, but "killing the subject and devouring the soul. Raide dead, resurrection, true resurrection, wish and miracle cannot return life to the subject once her soul is digested--she is gone forever. A 9th level cleric spell). Next post - a summary of the Necromancy spells in Libris Mortis. Necrotic Burst, Necrotic Eruption, Necrotic Tumor, Necrotic Termination are Fort (Patial) Necrotic Cyst is Fort (Negates) The rest don't have saves.
gabrion 10-26-05, 10:53 AM	@Gabrion 1 entry found for eudaemonia. eudaemonia n : a contented state of being happy and healthy and prosperous; "the town was finally on the upbeat after our recent troubles" Eudaemonic Spells!!!! Nice Word! Thanks, but I was actually making a bit of a joke. I'm fully aware of the meaning(s) of eudaimonia (as it is spelled most commonly), and I was just bringing up the word since people were trying to translate "necromancy" from ancient languages (and come up with "life magic"). Eudiamonia is one of those words that is really hard to nail down a definition for, so I was using it as an example/joke to point out that these direct translations often don't work. :)
Demonfey 10-26-05, 11:19 AM	That's ten spells, Sil. Not nine.
Wilds 10-26-05, 11:38 AM	dont find the whole cyst thing as revolting as it was made out to be but w/e The cyst spells require two things. A feat and that the person target already be affected by another spell. Though the total lack of saves seems strange, it kind of makes snese
jagggar 10-26-05, 11:53 AM	AnalysisThese items break several rules with regards to magic item creation. Eye of Flame, for example, is effectively a rechargable Wand of Fireballs. Still thinking about the Wand of Fireballs, the limited use in number of times per day of this Undead Graft is a new kind of balancing principle. Grafts are also not salvagable in treasure and are more like Supernatural Powers than spell-like effects. Conceptually they're great, even if they break the rules from Core Rules point of view. Balance wise, they're not too bad. Without knowing if there are any drawbacks, and assuming the eye doesn't take up an item slot, my price calcuations come to about 21,600 gp. (Rounded up to 22,000?) Toss in the not-treasure-able, and the price might be higher since you can't disarm or sunder it. It's not that it's not in the rules already. It's that it's not already worked out for you.
Ashariana 10-26-05, 01:08 PM	dont find the whole cyst thing as revolting as it was made out to be but w/e The cyst spells require two things. A feat and that the person target already be affected by another spell. Though the total lack of saves seems strange, it kind of makes snese Don't forget the 1000xp you need to burn to cast the spell, and the fact that the cyst is a level 2 spell and unless like, using heighten, theres an easy chance to make it. Grafts are powerful because they both replace limbs, have a possibility of killing the character from damage when applied, some also have drawbacks to applying them (undead are the only ones that dont... I think).
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 04:38 PM	The eye of flame can be used once a day. And you have to replace your eye with it.
jagggar 10-26-05, 04:58 PM	So I'm guessing penalty to spot/search checks? C'mon guys, how close am I price-wise?
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 05:08 PM	It does 10d8 damage with a dc 14 relfex save for half. It can only be used once per day. Half the damage is fire, the other half is un/holy damage. It costs 10,800gp. But, it has such a low reflex save that many people could make that, and you can't boost the damage in any way.
Demonfey 10-26-05, 05:43 PM	So I'm guessing penalty to spot/search checks? C'mon guys, how close am I price-wise? Surprisingly, no. I guess because it is a gem eye for an eye of flame and fear (or is it the other way around?), it was made to also function as an eye. Go figure.
jagggar 10-26-05, 05:47 PM	Okay, I was only off by half. My calculations figured for a 10d6 fireball 1/day with no slot occupation. If I'd calculated it taking up a slot, then I would've gotten the 10,800 price. So do you still have the lens/goggles slot open?
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 05:49 PM	Could you send me a list of the grafts Igor can make? I'd like to give Zerin some grafts. And he's finaly completly finished, except for his cohort and followers.
Demonfey 10-26-05, 05:51 PM	Any and all yuan ti, illithid, beholder, silthilar, and half golem grafts. Some of these'll require money up front, but that's because he doesn't have enough money otherwise.
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 06:05 PM	well, can I get a list of the grafts and what they do? I don't want to purchase something for Zerin and find out it's completly useless.
thasis 10-26-05, 06:26 PM	The Cyst spells could be considered overpowered in some eyes, but I disagree. The Cyst spells have to many drawbacks to be overpowered. The main thing I disagree with is the lack of save. That makes it slighly more powerful but meh, it's overall balanced off with the drawbacks. But beyond that, creating another unbalanced spell isn't the way to deal with a spell from a optional rule-book. If you think it's unbalanced don't allow it in your game, or in the case of the IFGW make a protest and discuss it (like we're doing now). Creating unbalanced spells in retaliation isn't the answer though. I suggest boosting the level to about 5 to balance YOUR spell out.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 06:32 PM	dont find the whole cyst thing as revolting as it was made out to be but w/e that's a worry. They're revolting invasions of living flesh and are a horrendous insult to living beings. A target of that spell series would suffer greatly. The cyst spells require two things. A feat and that the person target already be affected by another spell. Though the total lack of saves seems strange, it kind of makes snese No feat required for the cyst series. The feat is for the grafts. The spell Necrotic Bloat, does 10d6 damage, as per fireball, without a save and without SR. By the time you get to the 9th level version, you're destroying the soul and preventing resurrection. I don't like the word 'broken' - but the spells break the rules. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 06:38 PM	The Cyst spells could be considered overpowered in some eyes, but I disagree. Lack of Save and no SR. There are no drawbacks, when you compare them to there PHB equivalents, really. Free scrying, sans saving throw for the target? Completely destroying your soul on failed save so that you don't resurrect? They aren't balanced - at least by conventional standards. But beyond that, creating another unbalanced spell isn't the way to deal with a spell from a optional rule-book. If you think it's unbalanced don't allow it in your game, or in the case of the IFGW make a protest and discuss it (like we're doing now). Creating unbalanced spells in retaliation isn't the answer though. I suggest boosting the level to about 5 to balance YOUR spell out. This is a matter of opinion. @all I think you missed that my spell was a joke. Note the strikethrough text and the opening bits. Have you noticed, yet, that depending on your leanings, people are more versus less permissive with certain powers. This isn't about me. It's about how you see what you read. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 06:45 PM	Without knowing if there are any drawbacks, and assuming the eye doesn't take up an item slot, my price calcuations come to about 21,600 gp. (Rounded up to 22,000?) Toss in the not-treasure-able, and the price might be higher since you can't disarm or sunder it. It's not that it's not in the rules already. It's that it's not already worked out for you. your 2nd calc was right. 10,800 for Eye of Flame, as entered in LR @Ashariana Necrotic Cyst does not cost XP. Only Necrotic Termination costs 1000XP, the other spells do not
premier666 10-26-05, 06:50 PM	Right then! Today's Vomitronic Inspiration is the Necrotic Bloat spell Necrotic Bloat Necromancy (Evil) Level: Cleric 3, Sorcerer/Wizard 3 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Target: Living creature with necrotic cyst Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None! Spell Resistance: No! You cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst (see spell of the same name) to pulse and swell. *vomits* This agitation of the necrotic cyst tears living tissue and expands the size of the cyst, dealing massive internal damage to the subject. The subject takes 1d6 points of damage per level (maximum 10d6), and half hte damage is considered vile damage (introduced in Book of Vile Darkness) because the cyst expands to envelope the newly necrotized tissue. *vomits* The cyst is reduced to its original size when the vile damage is healed. Vile damage can only be healed by magic cast within the area of a consecrate or hallow spell (or an area naturally consecrated or hallowed). Points of vile damage represent such an evil violation toa character's body or sould that only in a holy place, with holy magic, can the damge be reparied. Focus: Caster must possess a mother cyst. Analysis *clears throat of stomach matter* Um, this spell is one of nine in the Necrotic Cyst series, as follows: Necrotic Awareness (lets you dectect people with a cyst, see below, so you can blow them up with the spells below) Necrotic Bloat (see above); Necrotic Burst (on failed save *death* on successful save, 15d6, level 5); Necrotic Cyst (-2 on saves to resist necromancy. Vulnerability to Necrotic series. Level 2 spell); Necrotic Domination (functions like Dominate Person); Necrotic Empowerment ("you call upon the mother cyst that your body hosts.... +8 to Str, Int, Wis!! and +8 to Natural Armour!! and +5 on Fort saves AND 100 TEMPORARY HIT POINTS. Level 8 Cleric spell); Necrotic Eruption ("you cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst to explosively enlarge iseself at the expense of the subject's body tissue, harming both the subject and nearby creatures. Save for 1d6 per level, capped at 15d6; failed save=death AND everyone within 20 feet, takes 1d6 dam, capped at 15d6!! AND everyone gets exposed to a Necrotic Cyst!!!!!!) Necrotic Scrying (free scrying on a person with a cyst! NO SAVE!!!! Level 2 spell); Necrotic Tumour (OMG! "You cause the cyst of a subject already harboring a necrotic cyst to envelop a portion of the brain. On failed save "you gain complete control" of the subject's brain) and the lovely Necrotic Termination (1d6 capped at 25d6 on SAVE, half is vile damage. If you fail, you are not ONLY DEAD, but "killing the subject and devouring the soul. Raide dead, resurrection, true resurrection, wish and miracle cannot return life to the subject once her soul is digested--she is gone forever. A 9th level cleric spell). Next post - a summary of the Necromancy spells in Libris Mortis. Necrotic Burst, Necrotic Eruption, Necrotic Tumor, Necrotic Termination are Fort (Patial) Necrotic Cyst is Fort (Negates) The rest don't have saves. BY THE GODS! Those spells are the most incredible eveil spells I've ever seem! ( I dont have the book of vile thingy) Black Mage MUST have them! Ok serious. Those spells are surely broken. even requiring another spell to work, I can easely see someone casting quickened heightened cyst thingy, and then destroying the soul of the target. I mean, DESTROYING THE SOUL. NO (i think) OTHER SPELL PERMANENTLY DESTROY A CHARACTER. Not even wish working is waaaaay overkill. EDIT: BTW, I'm back
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 06:50 PM	they also need a feat to use.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 06:52 PM	Don't forget the 1000xp you need to burn to cast the spell, and the fact that the cyst is a level 2 spell and unless like, using heighten, theres an easy chance to make it. Grafts are powerful because they both replace limbs, have a possibility of killing the character from damage when applied, some also have drawbacks to applying them (undead are the only ones that dont... I think). There's no mention of how to remove the Cyst, once in you, except for the DC=20 heal check to cut it out. On failed Heal check, you die and you can't take 20. It is implied, but not said, that the Heal series cannot fix the cyst, once in you. If you read Necrotic Bloat, the implied inability to remove the cyst is implied, where it reads "casting in consecrated/Hallowed" place reduces the cyst to its original size". @jagggar There's nothing wrong, really with how they've built things. But, illustratively speaking, if a Core Rules supplement releases products like these, your two choices are to block a power, or allow variations around Core Rules. I don't think it's fair, to hold players responsible for building mirror powers and to criticise them for doing so. I also think it's a truck load of difficult work to put a Tome into the "allow this but not this" status, in one's campaign. My view is that once the power's on the shelves, one lives with it, and one allows innovation in application of game-balancing discretion. Kind Regards stav
premier666 10-26-05, 06:52 PM	they also need a feat to use. Oooooohh, that makes them balanced... not. :D
Demonfey 10-26-05, 06:54 PM	well, can I get a list of the grafts and what they do? I don't want to purchase something for Zerin and find out it's completly useless. I think I did an impromptu list in the merchant's guild, look for where VampiricBloodlustNemesis was shopping for them. So do you still have the lens/goggles slot open? Yes. Since grafts replace parts of the body, the slots are still open (except maybe for weapon graft and gloves, but that's because you just got something like a longsword grafted into you where your hand should be.)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 06:56 PM	they also need a feat to use. Hi MoF :) It's not stipulated in the spell series, which may mean the spells need a bit of editing. In any case, I don't think I would allow a feat that takes away SR and Saves, and allows one to do those kinds of things. If I said to you, or to whoever, "I've got a feat that lets you totally destroy a character who casts Necromancy and who is evil" I'm pretty sure I'd get eggs thrown at me, and prolly rightly so. *smiles* Metamagic costs you levels in Core Rules and lots of them. You can take extra spell slots, and you can modify a spell but you can't take away SR. We do have some new "Instant" metamagic that you can use once per day (so they've balanced by the frequency of use).
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 07:03 PM	@Premier G'day Premier, good to see you! regards stav
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 07:19 PM	Ok, compare necrotic cyst to another second level spell, say, scorching ray. But first, let me point out that you do get a fortitude save against necrotic syst, and spell resistence does apply, and negating just the necrotic cyst spell screws it up for the rest of the spells, since that is one of the main things. Now, scorching ray is a second level spell that deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 more ray per caster level. This give you a max of 3 rays, each one dealing 4d6. If used on a single creature, the spell can deal up to 12d6 damage. Does that make the spell broken? And necrotic dominate is similiar to dominate person, but the focus is a mother cyst. And a cleric with the destruction domain can cast implosion, doing exactly the same thing as necrotic termination. Having the necrotic spells are exactly the same thing as a cleric having a domain. Except the spells aren't free, the caster must first have that spell in his spellbook/ask for it from his diety/know it in his mind. And sil, the damage from necrotic bloat is vile damage. Try sizing the spells up to spells similiar to them.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 07:20 PM	ah, here 'tis....p. 28, LM. Mother Cyst [GENERAL] You gain the ability to cast necrotic cyst spells by grown a cyst of your own. Prerequisites: Caster Level 1st, Knowledge (Religion) 2 Ranks Benefit: You grow an internal cyst of undead flesh called a mother cyst. The cyst may be noticeable as a discoloured swelling on your skin, if desired. The mother cyst is slightly painful, but otherwise isn't harmful. The mother cyst grants you access to a selection of cyst-related spells listed below (and described in Chapter 4 of this book). You cast these spells like any other spell you can cast, once you host a mother cyst (if you are a caster who prepares spells, you can prepare all necrotic cyst spells without referring to a spellboook, as if you had the Spell Mastery feat for each such spell). Necrotic Cyst Spells: 1st--necrotic awareness 2nd--necrotic cyst, necrotic scrying; 3r5d--necrotic bloat; 4th--necrotic domination; 5th--necrotic burst;--6th--necrotic eruption; 7th--necrotic tumor[/i]; 8th--necrotic empowerment; 9th--necrotic termination Normal: A creature without this feat cannot cast necrotic cyst spells. Analysis There is no such non-epic feat that lets you have access to a spell series that by-pass SR and that have so many Save=none spells. The ability to prevent resurrection, and to by-pass Wish, Miracle and other 9th level magic cannot be aced by a Metamagic spell - which, by buying 10th/11th/12th level spell slots - should be magic more powerful than a standard 9th level spell. In any case, for me, it's in the "as if you had spell mastery for each such spell". regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-05, 07:25 PM	Ok, compare necrotic cyst to another second level spell, say, scorching ray. But first, let me point out that you do get a fortitude save against necrotic syst, and spell resistence does apply, and negating just the necrotic cyst spell screws it up for the rest of the spells, since that is one of the main things. Now, scorching ray is a second level spell that deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 more ray per caster level. This give you a max of 3 rays, each one dealing 4d6. If used on a single creature, the spell can deal up to 12d6 damage. Does that make the spell broken? And necrotic dominate is similiar to dominate person, but the focus is a mother cyst. And a cleric with the destruction domain can cast implosion, doing exactly the same thing as necrotic termination. Having the necrotic spells are exactly the same thing as a cleric having a domain. Except the spells aren't free, the caster must first have that spell in his spellbook/ask for it from his diety/know it in his mind. And sil, the damage from necrotic bloat is vile damage. Try sizing the spells up to spells similiar to them. Hi MoF - interesting analysis. Fair enough. :) You're right to the extent that several powers mimick other PHB spells and they're great/fine. It's the no-save-scrying, the free destroy-forever that are a real worry. But you get an initial Fort save on the original Cyst, invasion. Once in you you're :censored:. Some of the spells in the series you can save on, I've summarised it, upstream :) If I said to you "I've got this 2nd level spell that, if you fail your save on, all my 5th, 8th and 9th level spells related to it you'll automatically fail", again, I'd have eggs thrown at me. Or if I said "okay, I cast my 2nd level Versemaster spell at the evil Necromancer and from now on, whenever I cast my 5th level Verseo-magic at it, it takes 10d6 and must save or die" - um, I think we know what would happen next. regards stav
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 07:32 PM	The mother cyst becomes a symboit to the caster. It feeds off the caster, in return giving him knowledge of spells. The necrotic spell series forces the subject to unwilling become a host for the cyst. The way I figure that the necrotic spells ignore spell resistence is that the SR is like a tank's armor. Getting to the crew from outside the tank is hell, but if one of your people are a member of the crew, then you can have your guy do the job for you.
Master_of_Flames 10-26-05, 07:34 PM	um, I think we know what would happen next. regards stav *grabs sack of red dragon eggs* yes, yes we do.
premier666 10-26-05, 07:45 PM	*grabs sack of red dragon eggs* yes, yes we do. A red Dragon Great wirm female arrives; "What are you doing with my eggs?" Anyway, those series of spells are unbalanced in the way that once you're the target of one spell, you becomes the target of a hundred more. and no save.
Demonfey 10-26-05, 08:11 PM	The requirement for the spells also mean that you're susceptible to the exact same spells, though. Think about it: a mother cyst is still a cyst, so that means if someone else doesn't like you and has a cyst and some knowledge of the spells, you're as easy to hurt with those spells as they are to you.
thasis 10-26-05, 10:44 PM	Ummm... I'm pretty sure the constant posting of the LM spells and the such is against the Open Game License. That's just what I think though...
jagggar 10-26-05, 11:12 PM	Oh no, I don't think it's against OGL. I think it's against standard copyright laws. As far as I know, no D&D books except Unearthed Arcana are Open Gaming Content, not even the Core Rulebooks. Actually, that's probably one of the reasons I'll be buying fewer and fewer new releases. Sure I'll buy Races of the Dragon since I'm a dragon fangirl, but I don't want a lot of non-OGC material giving me ideas for creating a homebrew that I'd ideally like to be able to sell some day.
Demonfey 10-26-05, 11:13 PM	I actually made a homebrew I really like. Maybe some day I'll post it here.
gabrion 10-27-05, 02:02 AM	Well I know people may not really buy my opinion on what is or is not balance, but I'll weigh in on the subject anyway... I don't see a huge problem with the necrotic whatsit series of spells. The simple fact is that we already have save or die spells, so the fact that necrotic cyst (a spell that does relatively little, but is negated by a save) allows the use of other spells without a save is not a big issue. Using a save or die spell is a much more effective way of making it so I can have my way with someone. :P Lets look at what goes into destroying someone via save and die vs. necrotic series of spells: Save or Die Making a touch attack with a 5th level spell, you cause someone to die if they fail a fort save. If they fail the save, they are dead. I may be harping on this a bit, but upon a failed save, they are dead! Dead people can't do much in D+D terms. Once someone is dead, if you want them to not come back you can use the 9th level spell soul bind (will save but can be cast multiple times). This does cost money though. Alternatively, you can make sure their corpse is not around for ressurection or whatever. Necrotic Series By casting a 2nd level spell (allowing a fort save to negate), you can put a cyst in someone. If this spell fails, no dice. If you do put the cyst in someone, they (usually) get to act before you can follow it up with a spell to kill them or whatever. If they do get a round to act (or a few years or whatever, depending on your evil schemes), they can get away from you. If you get a chance to do surgery on the cyst it shouldn't be very hard to get rid of. By 5th level a cleric making a DC 20 heal check shouldn't be a problem. Finally, if you do get the chance to follow up the necrotic cyst spell, you can kill/maim/general :censored: up the recipient with a variety of no save spells. If you have the 9th level cyst spell, you can kill them without having the chance of revival. My final analysis is that these spells aren't too much worse than already existing "unfair" spells. One thing that could be changed to make all of you feel better (and that I wouldn't object to) would be to make the duration of necrotic cyst "permanent" instead of "instantaneous," which would make the whole series less powerful.
Tenzhi 10-27-05, 02:59 AM	Well I know people may not really buy my opinion on what is or is not balance, but I'll weigh in on the subject anyway... Meh. Just like the Force, the powers of Min/Maxing can be used for good OR evil.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-27-05, 07:09 AM	It's the SR=No in the Cyst series and absence of saves. They're not too bad - only nasty - except for Necrotic Termination which should be NERFED! ;) THE SPELL MAKES ME DO THIS! Stardust Implant Transformation Level: Cleric 2 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. per level) Target: One Living Creature Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: No When this spell is cast, the caster concentrates a small Hallowed amount of Stardust. This ball is radiant with life-giving energy and is literally concentrated life-force. It crackles with radiant silvery blue fires. When the caster gathers this force, she then hurls it at a creature without a Constitution score (usually an Undead). On a successful melee touch attack, the Stardust embeds itself in the Undead flesh, creating a small, radiant glowing centre in the target. Once so implanted, a Necromancer can attempt to remove the Stardust (provided they have the Corpsecrafter Feat). They must roll a "Corrupt Flesh" attempt (spellcraft, DC=20) and if unsuccessful, the Silverstarfire erupts to life, spreading through the Undead's body, re-invigorating it with life-giving force, destroying the creature. However, if the save is successful, the Undead gets a -2 to all Will saves, thereafter against spells from creatures that use Good magic or magic with the Silverstarfire descriptor.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-27-05, 07:13 AM	AND THIS! Stardust Scrying Transformation Level: Cleric 2 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Unlimited Effect: Stardust serves as scrying Sensor Target: One Creature Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No The Stardust implant in the creature without a constitution serves as a magical sensor, allowing the Cleric to scry on that creature, without the knowledge of the target. Excepting those points, the spell functions as a Scry spell.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-27-05, 07:18 AM	AND! this Stardust Transformation Transformation Level: Cleric 9 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. per level) Target: One Creature Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude (Partial) Spell Resistance: No When this spell is cast, the Stardust implant is imbued with powerful energy from the Positive Energy Plane. This power radiates, ever in an increasing spiral within the creature, impaling the undead soul with wave upon wave of Hallowed, living force. If the creature makes a successful Fortitude save, it only takes 1d6 per caster level (capped at 25d6 *coughs* - see Libris Mortis for spell precedent), but if the save is failed, the Stardust explodes like a miniature sun within the body of the target, totally severing the creature's link to the positive energy plane. In a miniature super-nova like explosion, Silverstarfire engulfs the creature, pulling its soul back into its body, before severing the soul's link to the Otherworld and totally annihilating any chance of reviving the creature. Wish, Miracle, Rais Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection cannot reverse this effect, and no Animate Dead spell will successfully re-animate the creature, so destroyed.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-27-05, 08:57 AM	it's innovation That's how D&D works - The Good Guys invent something to get The Bad Guys, the Bad Guys invent something to get the Good Guys, the Good Guys invent something to get the bad guys...... because, if we didn't do this, we become stagnant ponds, lifeless, airless, repetitive automatons. Formulaec with our D&D. Structured. Rigid. Mechanical. The game dies in our imaginations. innovation RESURRECTS our imagination and keeps our D&D ALIVE! can you live without your television, your X-Box, your Mobile Phone, your medicines, your appliances, your....technology.... But, the bugs - the bacteria and viruses - they keep outsmartin' us and we keep inventing new medicines..... That's Life! :)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-27-05, 09:53 AM	Ummm... I'm pretty sure the constant posting of the LM spells and the such is against the Open Game License. That's just what I think though... You can cite your references, and acknowledge the source. What you can't do, is name it without citing your references. @all Just cite your references. It's like writing an essay, publishing a book or anything. Plagiarism is the failure to acknowledge your sources. We discuss Core Rules concepts, as a matter of routine all over the boards. It's how we explore gaming concepts. regards stav
Wilds 10-27-05, 10:30 AM	? Dont remember that ever being true. Thought u couldnt post anything unless it was SRD or some stuff like that
Silmarien Aldalome 10-27-05, 05:54 PM	"The materials available through this website are the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. or its subsidiaries (collectively "Wizards") or of its licensors, licensees, or affiliated companies." >>Quote From URL Above<< (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=company/websitelegalnotice) The stuff on c-right talks about limits on use, outside the site, of their materials. regards stav
thasis 10-27-05, 07:02 PM	Thanx for the clear up on that. I find this discussion very intressting, I don't want it to be breaking my favorite companys rules (or the laws rules despite the fact I hate are current goverment). Now I havn't looked over your spells, and I don't know if they were humereous (as your other spell was) so I can't say anything on them yet.
gabrion 10-27-05, 07:09 PM	it's innovation That's how D&D works - The Good Guys invent something to get The Bad Guys, the Bad Guys invent something to get the Good Guys, the Good Guys invent something to get the bad guys...... Innovation=DBZ? :thinks:
Master_of_Flames 10-27-05, 07:30 PM	You need to make a feat for the stardust series too sil.
Demonfey 10-27-05, 07:33 PM	Yeah, just to make it more equal with what you're trying to mimic.
jagggar 10-27-05, 08:04 PM	Innovation=DBZ? :thinks: Sar: I'm powerful! Sil: I won't let you win! Sar: *glare* Sil: *glare* Sar: *strikes pose* Sil: *strikes different pose* Sar: *glare* Sil: *glare* . . . Sar: *glare* Sil: *glare* DM: Okay guys, we'll have to finish this up next epi- session. Yeah, session, that's what I meant. On innovation: And then the Neutral Insane people create something to kill everyone. Goodies are too busy taking out the Baddies to care. Baddies too busy fending off the Goodies to bother. Baddies and Goodies might come to an agreement to take out Neutral Insane people so they can save the world (Goodies) and then destory it themselves (Baddies).
Demonfey 10-27-05, 08:07 PM	That's why I like thinking like a neutral with my weaponry. :D Also, do I have the go ahead for the mission, jagggar? I've yet to get an answer.
Tenzhi 10-28-05, 12:23 AM	Innovation=DBZ? :thinks: Bad innovation does. In bad innovation, the power scale keeps moving onward and upwards. Innovation is building a better mousetrap; bad innovation is building a bigger one. The latter causes power creep, which generally leads to the comparative uselessness of what came before - the core classes for instance (or, in your comparison, the human characters of DBZ).
Demonfey 10-28-05, 12:33 AM	Bad innovation does. In bad innovation, the power scale keeps moving onward and upwards. Innovation is building a better mousetrap; bad innovation is building a bigger one. The latter causes power creep, which generally leads to the comparative uselessness of what came before - the core classes for instance (or, in your comparison, the human characters of DBZ). :clap: For such a good explanation.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 05:32 AM	hey, good to see you all, thanx for your posts! :) *looks at Tenzhi* ah, yes, we wondered when Power Creep was going to be discussed. It's a really good discussion point, Tenzhi, thank you for raising it! :) erm, but before getting into it I have something far more important to announce! another stray kitten was found behind our home. Our neighbours, knowing we are complete suckers for a vulnerable creature, brought the poor darling little thing right on over. When I said "so, why don't you and Jason take her, we took the last one you dropped on our doorstep" she smiled and said "Jason said it's me or the cat". We like our neighbours, even if they are a bit cunning :) So - here I have a darling little tiny thingy crawling around my lap as I type. I'm feeding her with a dropper - she's so tiny she can't eat alone. I just can't imagine how anyone could be so cruel to dump a helpless creature! She was found in a plastic bag, braying in abject terror at being abandoned. The sound was absolutely heart wrenching. So, we took her in - and if we keep her much longer, I'm afraid I'm going to fail my Will Save and not let her go (spell Kitten Compassion, 9th level Cleric spell, DC=35, fail="you are unable to abandon, pass on, or deliver the helpless creature anywhere outside your home and you resign yourself to making a permanent home for her"). Anyhowz, we found a home for her, with friends. She's going to live just up the road from us. Our other two cats (including the stray we rescued last year) will be relieved, of course! There was NO WAY, she was going to the animal shelter to get put down! If it came to that, our other cats would have adjusted. She's a beautiful four-coloured thing. Ginger, tabby, white and black. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 05:43 AM	okay - to business! (she's purring behind me) @Tenzhi brutish, unsubtle increments to power are boring. The 'mouse trap' analogy is good. Two things though 1. A better mousetrap--is--a more powerful tool, anhyhowz; 2. Innovative designs for new spells are not boring. A new power is also not boring if it makes your imagination run. That can happen with a 1st level power, or a 100th level power. About Power Creep and our Tomes. it's everywhere. V3.5 is Power Creep - en bloc by contrast to AD&D. *shruges* We live with it..... regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 05:48 AM	....and before I shut up (um, for a few hours anyhowz) - one last point.... @thasis+jagggar+thasis+MoF+Gabrion good to see youz. @jagggar you've missed one tiny thing. I've been posting Libris Mortis for the DM's need. I remember being 'blind' as a GM to tomes that other players had, and I used to be appreciative when someone posted a power or three. I've recognised that you need information to help with your rulings, so posting Libris Mortis has been about 'information sharing'. It's in the spirit of sharing, as much as it has been a discussion and GoPG power development @all Yes - whoever pointed out the 'new' spells ;) I posted would need a feat precedent, read my mind. They weren't real spells - to post at Materials For Review. They were somewhere between a joke and real. But, the Undead Grafts, their cost, and their scope have given me ideas about how to 'massage' the Verso series into shape. While I'm posting here, I have 'back-burner' processing happenin' about Silverstarfire. It is a power for good - so it'll prolly pop up here and there..... regards stav .....be back soooooooooonnnnn *cracks* a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down....
gabrion 10-28-05, 05:58 AM	V3.5 is Power Creep Truth. As a matter of fact I, a lover of relatively high powered stuff, have come to the conclusion that WotC is trying to prepare us for 4e by simply breaking 3.5 until it doesn't work any more (that is if you use the new stuff they keep publishing). Personally, I think if we are going to be creating new stuff, we don't need to buy into the power creep mentality of 3.5, especially if we are creating stuff in a specific context (ie spells to fight undead). I'm all about creating such things, but if each side keeps inventing new guns, we risk taking strategy and good gameplay out of the equation. I think it is much more of an accomplishment to beat the enemy within the existing rules system then to add on to them to do so (though the latter is valid IMO).
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 05:59 AM	@Gabrion Hiya Gabe! "Saw your light on, thought I'd pop in" (it's a commercial in Oz about a family who lived in a lighthouse. From the 70's)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 06:01 AM	Truth. As a matter of fact I, a lover of relatively high powered stuff, have come to the conclusion that WotC is trying to prepare us for 4e by simply breaking 3.5 until it doesn't work any more (that is if you use the new stuff they keep publishing). Personally, I think if we are going to be creating new stuff, we don't need to buy into the power creep mentality of 3.5, especially if we are creating stuff in a specific context (ie spells to fight undead). I'm all about creating such things, but if each side keeps inventing new guns, we risk taking strategy and good gameplay out of the equation. I think it is much more of an accomplishment to beat the enemy within the existing rules system then to add on to them to do so (though the latter is valid IMO). Agreed! strategy is *good*, bigger guns is *bad* :) (well, a bit simplistic of me, but you know what I mean) I fought Sargantanas, Ashariana, and four/five others as a "boring" 15th level Core Rules Cleric. it's all in the strategy - I had a very 'ordinary' PC - but a very colourful one. I love Silimna - she's really grown on me
thasis 10-28-05, 09:55 AM	Yes, Silman is a very intressting character. I wish there was more RP activity over hear though... *shakes fist randomly*
Sargatanas 10-28-05, 10:15 AM	Agreed! strategy is *good*, bigger guns is *bad* :) (well, a bit simplistic of me, but you know what I mean) I fought Sargantanas, Ashariana, and four/five others as a "boring" 15th level Core Rules Cleric. it's all in the strategy - I had a very 'ordinary' PC - but a very colourful one. I love Silimna - she's really grown on me That 'boring' and 'ordinary' cleric stuff is getting really old. Give it up already, just because ya didn't get your way you don't have to whine about it, and don't tell me that you aren't. ALSO, the core cleric is very likely the most broken core class around. Take a look around the boards, I'm sure theres discussion about it somewhere. Silimna isn't that interesting to me. Too much of the same old crusading anti-undead/evil thing. I've seen it far too many times before. Somewhat interesting backstory, but I'm findin it a bit boring that everything has some connection to the almighty Silmarien who floats around on another plane making threats...
Wilds 10-28-05, 10:16 AM	Sil *boring* clerics are some of the most powerful characters in the game..... CoD
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 11:58 AM	@Sargantanas watch me - but don't think I exist for you or to destroy you. I don't exist for you, I just exist. In a flash of Silver and Blue, Silmarien's face appears in an explosion of Silverstarfire. The Runestaff is incandescent. She strikes the ground three times *click**click**click* then points it at you. Impaled by sleep thou art - whether it is by the Laws of Life or Undeath that thou walk the earth. In a Dream a Vision comes to you, somewhere someplace, sometime - in a land far away, the chanting and hallowed Prayers of the Drow of Eilistraee find you. Deep in Lamentation they huddle together. Silimna speaks to her people. Her almost-white hair with a streak of blond set her apart from her Drow bretheren, as do her emerald green eyes and skin, lighter than a Drow's wont, but still very dark. "Their fangs were fell - and the stench of their mouths like a rancid piece of rotting flesh. For, without their Dominations and Charms I was held and aware of their foul touch with all mine faculties. By Eilistraee! By the Grace of the Goddess I do walk the earth, yet. But look! All is not lost - for new Lore we have to Ward us on our Journey. No Darkness can prevail while but one of us yet walks the earth and it is no accident that the story unfolds the way that it does. For mine kin - and mine cousin - Silmarien - hath found The Positoxin! For this Lore comes of the Elves - or of their resources in a great Library in Peredhil Halls. Though we are sundered from our Elven kin, they strive with us and their Wyrding finds us. She holds up a parchment with the complex alchemical formulae. A hooded and robed being speaks - its features are obscured. But you see a silver and blue robe, adorned with silvery blue arcanography. "They are not hard to master, Silimna - mine aid thou shalt have. Come - we have work to do. Time presses" There is a murmuring in the crowd as the robed figure steps forwards. For the briefest of moments, you glimpse a flash of its eyes - their gaze penetrating all time and space. For they are staring at you - only for the briefest moment. Silimna leads the Vespers "Hallowed Mother - Hale Spirit Guide our footsteps on the Journey Home The Starshine and the Sunlight call us We are no longer Lost We are coming Home Ward our footsteps with thine love May Grace Hallow the places of Hate in our Hearts May Forgiveness Guide our path Hallowed Mother - Hale Spirit"
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 12:06 PM	ALSO, the core cleric is very likely the most broken core class around. Take a look around the boards, I'm sure theres discussion about it somewhere. *chuckles* - Silimna isn't that interesting to me. That's okay, cause you don't have to play her - you only have to face her. @all ahh, nothin' like a bit of provocation for inspiration. That's what evil is for - fires up the creative engines. For that, we must express gratitude. .....new powers....incoming A vision of Peredhil Halls explodes into the mind's eye. From the eagle's vantage point, way down below you see the jutting peaks thrust upwards out of the Great Forest and the Tower of Meneldil the Astronamer - an Interdict against the Darkness. And the Obelisk - and its black surface - stands in your consciousness. Its mysterious surface too pristine to beguile. It doesn't need to - and its fathomless Lore eludes the mind, like a Song on the tip of your tongue....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 12:18 PM	Sil *boring* clerics are some of the most powerful characters in the game..... CoD @all It seems to me, that no matter what power I name as my power of choice - the peanut gallery decry it's powerful. Must be a compliment in it somewhere - or perhaps that's just my vanity speaking. :) A Cleric, V3.5 - standard stock, no prestige class, standard Metamagic feats, and a couple of item creation feats, 32 Buy, same gold as all other characters. Two Domains - Good and Portal. No Prestige Classing. No home-brew powers. No Feats from Complete Divine. No *bolt on* supplementary Tomes for add ons, extras, power-creep. No special stacked Saves. No specially high stacked DCs on any power. Just a V3.5 - standard - boring - Cleric. And that's what a Cleric is to me - and that's that. What it is to you - that's up to you. :) Silimna - and any PC - is only "brought to life" by the RP and by the history one makes for her. Your characters are as alive as you feel them to be, not as the rules makes them to be, power-wise. enjoy stav
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-05, 12:31 PM	While min-maxing is an artform to some. And while posters like Kingside Bishop see a "puzzle" (to quote him) in mapping combinations of powers and feat-series into a unified PC - I don't give a cahoona about min maxing. I don't care what you do with your characters - I never have - except when going into the Arena, where standardised PCs are important in an even-matched fight. What has always mattered to me is do you love your character - do you engage with it But - outside the Arena - it's a nonsense to worry about "how much power I have". What matters is a) how you play the game, the sport that you are and b) the numbers game - allies and c) strategy. PvP environments are unregulatable, power wise, without a CR system. Talking power equivalence is a ferfee in PvP. stav
gabrion 10-28-05, 01:44 PM	That 'boring' and 'ordinary' cleric stuff is getting really old. Give it up already, just because ya didn't get your way you don't have to whine about it, and don't tell me that you aren't. ALSO, the core cleric is very likely the most broken core class around. Take a look around the boards, I'm sure theres discussion about it somewhere. Silimna isn't that interesting to me. Too much of the same old crusading anti-undead/evil thing. I've seen it far too many times before. Somewhat interesting backstory, but I'm findin it a bit boring that everything has some connection to the almighty Silmarien who floats around on another plane making threats... Reread the Code of Conduct Sargatanas. Sil is being commendably kind in responding to this, but that doesn't change the fact that you're breaking the CoC. Stop doing that.
thasis 10-28-05, 08:40 PM	Mmm... I agree with Gabrion here. That was like baiting if you ask me. I realy suggest you be careful about your posts. And Sil, thank you for not blowing up on Sargantas (even though he may have deserved it).
turalisj 10-28-05, 11:40 PM	A pounding can be on the front door of the guild. As the door is opened, a headless humanoid male clad in fullplate lies there.
thasis 10-29-05, 12:35 AM	Umm... does that happen in game? Or was that... I dunno...
turalisj 10-29-05, 01:02 AM	It was IG.
gabrion 10-29-05, 03:20 AM	Aramel approaches the front door with anyone else upon hearing the knocking, and seeing the body of the soldier lying there, mutters a prayer to Illmatar. "May Illmatar have born your pain at the end. This is truly the work of evil." Reaching down and holding the body in his arms, Aramel closes his eyes and begins a chant of divine power, praying to Illmatar for the favor to do his will. "Illmatar, hear my pray on behalf of this man, who was torn from this world before his time was ready. Restore this broken body and return his soul, so that he might carry on a fullfilling life." As the prayer is completed, the boy's body is encapsuled in a golden light, and after a moment his full figure is restored as it once was, and the divine energy has reattached departed soul to his body. Aramel asks him, "Now tell me sir, can you remember what happened to you?" OOC: Casting ressurection and assuming the soul is not against returning. BTW, this character is not approved (though he will be an Apostle of Peace and thus have the ability to ressurect), but I figured the mechanics aren't too important for this particular time. If I'm wrong I can change his actions (to just watching).
Tenzhi 10-29-05, 03:41 AM	1. A better mousetrap--is--a more powerful tool, anhyhowz; Only if a better mouse is a more powerful one. I prefer to think that a better mouse would be smarter and more versatile perhaps, but not necessarily more powerful. it's everywhere. V3.5 is Power Creep - en bloc by contrast to AD&D. French Toast has more cinnamon in it than pancakes - that's not an example of cinnamon creep, it's just a different recipe.
Demonfey 10-29-05, 04:28 AM	Aramel approaches the front door with anyone else upon hearing the knocking, and seeing the body of the child lying there, mutters a prayer to Illmatar. "May Illmatar have born your pain at the end, frail child. This is truly the work of great evil." Reaching down and holding the child's body in his arms, Aramel begins closes his eyes and begins a chant of divine power, praying to Illmatar for the favor to do his will. "Illmatar, hear my pray on behalf of this child, who was torn from this world far before his time was ready. Restore this broken body and return his soul, so that he might carry on a fullfilling life." As the prayer is completed, the boy's body is encapsuled in a golden light, and after a moment his full figure is restored as it once was, and the divine energy has reattached departed soul to his body. Aramel asks him, "Now tell me young one, can you remember what happened to you?" OOC: Casting ressurection and assuming the soul is not against returning. BTW, this character is not approved (though he will be an Apostle of Peace and thus have the ability to ressurect), but I figured the mechanics aren't too important for this particular time. If I'm wrong I can change his actions (to just watching). :confused: How'd you get child from MALE IN FULLPLATE?
gabrion 10-29-05, 05:02 AM	:confused: How'd you get child from MALE IN FULLPLATE? :banghead: hmm...maybe it's cause I can't read? Really, my best guess is that I was reading in a hurry and somehow mistook "clad" for "child." No, that doesn't make sense, but it's all I got at the moment. :blush: :doh: Anyway, I fixed it.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-30-05, 12:12 AM	Just popping in to say I'm writing reports, so my head's buried in work. But, will be back soon. Also the kitten has a home. A dog in the new home has adopted it, (apparently she's having a phantom pregnancy). I saw some great RP, upstream (@Gabrion *expresses appreciation* :) + :bow: ) regards stav @Tenzhi :rofl: if your cinamon spreads around further - that's cinamon creep! @all I'm gunna quote from the PHB, AD&D version, to highlight some data - :) *cracks* Sil-Mr-Burns-ian: exxcccellent Lisa! Soon we'll be able to create Undead that work at my factory for free!
Silmarien Aldalome 10-30-05, 12:16 AM	:confused: How'd you get child from MALE IN FULLPLATE? same was as Lembas can be shrink wrapped for long-haul trans-nat 747 flights.
gabrion 10-30-05, 10:54 AM	...Aramel will only ressurect the dead guy if the GoPG has some extra diamond dust lying around for this kind of thing. I'm guessing the "good guys" would have such stuff on hand, but I'm not sure how detailed the stuff is for this guild. Suffice to say that Aramel doesn't have any diamonds (he can't have any actually), so he would need some from the Guild if they want this guy raised so we can talk with him.
Gellion 10-30-05, 01:06 PM	Man, so this is where Sil and Tenzhi have been all this time. I thought you two had dissappeared off the face of the forums. Hehe, sort of like ol Joneleth Talshara did a year or two back. :D
premier666 10-30-05, 01:35 PM	Silimna isn't that interesting to me. Too much of the same old crusading anti-undead/evil thing. I've seen it far too many times before. Somewhat interesting backstory, but I'm findin it a bit boring that everything has some connection to the almighty Silmarien who floats around on another plane making threats... Thats exactly it. Nobody uses the "old crusading anti-undead/evil thing", anymore, its good to see some classic stuff on the boards. BTW, when was the last time you saw a plain ol' dwarf fighter? I haven't seen one in ages. (ever since Gimli got famous). on another note, that was a really rude post you got there.
Sargatanas 10-30-05, 03:00 PM	Yes, my post wasn't that nice. No, you don't need to keep focusing on it, because that is against the CoC too. So shut up already.
premier666 10-30-05, 05:52 PM	Yes, my post wasn't that nice. No, you don't need to keep focusing on it, because that is against the CoC too. So shut up already. The main objective of my post was to talk about how rare the classic combination of races/classes was. :D Ao, lets begin again. Lately, Its really rare to find certain combinations that used to be common place. I already said the dwarf fighter, but also, anyone saw a human cleric of pelor around? or a elf wizard (pure wizard)? Or worse, anyone seen a drow-ranger-dual-wielding-scimitars anywere nowadays?
Ravenscroft 10-30-05, 09:08 PM	Yes, my post wasn't that nice. No, you don't need to keep focusing on it, because that is against the CoC too. So shut up already. I would suggest that your less than polite response is against the CoC as well. At what point did the CoC allow you to have the last word in abusing the CoC by using obviously inflammatory language when invoking it.
turalisj 10-30-05, 09:12 PM	I would suggest that your less than polite response is against the CoC as well. At what point did the CoC allow you to have the last word in abusing the CoC by using obviously inflammatory language when invoking it. hey! I know someone by the name of ravenscroft! except he lives in wisconsin....
Ravenscroft 10-31-05, 05:36 PM	hey! I know someone by the name of ravenscroft! except he lives in wisconsin.... Trevor Ravenscroft is an English journalist and teacher who carried a very broad view of history and the karmic unfoldment of various individuals. He wrote The Cup of Destiny: The Quest for the Grail , The Spear of Destiny , and co-authored The Mark of the Beast. This is the original Ravenscroft that i used as my namesake. :)
thasis 10-31-05, 10:51 PM	I... have... returned. I'm still grounded though. I'm off the computer toomarow to. I won't be back untill Wednesday. Sorry...
Silmarien Aldalome 11-01-05, 07:17 AM	hi there everyone. Welcome to your days or evenings! I've got some exciting news!!!! Anglar Goldstems is coming to Australia and he will be staying with us, here for a while. I'll be back soon - just finished my reports - and am about to kick-off another wave of output & discussion and also read your posts. Take Care :) Stav
Demonfey 11-01-05, 05:08 PM	This place needs either a layout of the area, or some IG conversation. Before I'm tempted to loot the place again due to nothing happening IG.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-01-05, 05:22 PM	Spark of the Hallowed Mind Vivomancy/Vibrant/Vegmite Level: Cleric 5 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: ? Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft. per level) Effect: ? Target: One Creature Duration: ? Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes With this spell, the Versediviner gathers the highly charged Stardust infused with the Holy and with the native, living essence of the Universe. As the caster incants, an incandescent ball of Silverstarfire gathers in her hands. This holy force of creation is vibrant and highly energised. The Cleric Hallows the Holy Stardust so gathered, infusing it with the Spark of Mind, pure, unsullied, and resonant with un-embittered thought and with forgiveness. This highly magical energy is like a 'cognitive protease' or like a 'mental graft'. She then hurls the magical energy at any creature capable of thinking. Upons striking the target, the ball of Silverstarfire explodes into life, crackling as it enters the body, finding its way not only into every living fibre of being, but into the architecture of the mind. A resonant, powerful field of energy encases areas of the brain where memory, pain, hurt, vengeance and non-forgiveness are organised. The Silverstarfire then acts as a 'Hallowed Scaffold' unmaking the harms taken by the mind in the past. In a burst of agonising, existential pain, the being so infused gets another chance to get it right. Suddenly, all bitter thought becomes meaningless and the psyche is overwhelmed by powerful surges of compassion and feelings of oneness with everyone and everything. No grudge matters, no cruelty or barbaric act that was done to the target has any meaning. The gate to the Forgiving Holy suddenly opens in a flood of vibrant power. Upon a failed Will Save, the being so affected undergoes a very dramatic reorganisation of thinking. This spell is a very powerful version of Charm Person, and it is only like Dominate Person to the extent that the person may begin doing things 'out of character'. The change takes time. The first 24 hours are the most crucial. The Cleric must convince the character to find solitude or solace, away from influences that might disrupt the healing. If the save is failed, the character is partial to being in proximity to the Cleric. At the end of the first 24 hours, the Character may get a second Will save, but at -10. This is because, a person likes to feel like they're at peace, more than they like to feel angry, ultimately. In this transforming period, the character gets a chance to make sense of the mental injuries of the past. It is a time of great discovery. If the second Will save is failed, the character Atones, voluntarily, and begins a new path. This typically involves an alignment change, at least one step away from Evil. Sometimes a double-jump is possible, the character has choice. Chaos and Law are not pivotal in the re-formulation of thinking, but callousness, cruelty and hatred are the focus of the spell.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-01-05, 05:26 PM	This place needs either a layout of the area, or some IG conversation. Before I'm tempted to loot the place again due to nothing happening IG. *chuckles* Hi there Demonfey! I've gotta respond to Gabe's IG stuff upstream - I've gotta go do an assessment of someone in remand, but I'll be back again, at day's end. @Gellion GELLION!!!! @All (my) game plane (i.e. - this is everyone's thread - so be whatever you are) :) I've got product to develop, an action plan to assist Tyrannor, some more mapping out to do with jagggy. and hopefully - we may get Anglar back. regards stav
jagggar 11-01-05, 05:30 PM	looks like a variant of the BoED - Save or Good spell. (Drat, why can I not remember its name?)
Gellion 11-01-05, 05:40 PM	Wooo, yay for Angy. ;) I want him to post again! :)
gabrion 11-02-05, 01:44 AM	yaknow, I was just reading the stuff at the Temple of the Damned, and it occured to me that they are more than correct when they point out the fact that we have no real defenses to speak of. I take it that Thasis is actually in charge of the guild, so I'm wondering 1) How much $ we have, 2) Does our guild have followers, and 3) Would you mind if I tried to come up with a floorplan/defensive layout of the GoPG? Thanks.
Demonfey 11-02-05, 01:47 AM	You have a million gp, if I read the standard guild founding info correctly.
jagggar 11-02-05, 01:59 AM	Yep. And technically, the GoPG and the GoUE haven't declared themselves if I recall correctly.
gabrion 11-02-05, 03:06 AM	Yep. And technically, the GoPG and the GoUE haven't declared themselves if I recall correctly. Ohhh...does that mean we can't be attacked yet? :w00t: :plotting:
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-05, 03:21 AM	G'day Gabe - we must do what you suggest! (perhaps some 'super-secret-defences-mapping-with-Mandos is in order....) 2,000,000 Gold hey! That's enough for woooooooooaaaaaaaa + 2,000,000 for the Winter Leaf + 2,000,000 for The Drow of Eilistraee *kaching* goes the cash register! @All interested I've been in daily contact with Anglar - he's doing very well, and Silmarien, in another Universe has started a church of Rh'iel, after everyone found out Corellan is dead. Anglar and Sil's union, (drow and elf and human) mirrored the marriage of a lesser elf deity and Eilistraee The Drow and Elves are back on track! (in that Universe) okay - will be back soon - gotta grab dinner - and then .....more product and RP incoming... @Gabrion AND and RP response!
Master_of_Flames 11-02-05, 07:00 AM	Sil, you realise that this is the only active good aligned guild next to the keep. and thier prepared for war. edit: And in two diffrent universes, Li'rauk is an elven god of outcasts and in another one, he's an elven warmage who likes freezing his opponents, then melting them.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-05, 07:13 AM	Stats for The GoPG Needs include a physical lay out of the GoPG a set of decisions about the combination of defensive and offensive powers, which should include magical and non-magical fortifications. I have a series of ideas, that must not be posted, but which I would need to share with the Thread's Custodian (thasis) and anyone who can be trusted and is interested. We need to hear from thasis about how he'd like to proceed. a set of decisions about contingency planning - the Mouse Trap! Submissions for approval the Materials for Review Thread The new school of magic and spell series, after discussions; The validation of methodology for my Foundations (not this one here - they are the Winter Leaf, and you must have guessed by not, the Drow of Eilistraee) The HEF remains Work In Progress; My non-Silimna PCs regards stav @RP initiative-people Deep in the warrens of the World, the chanting of the Drow of Eilistraee is an uplifting Song. From Silimna's laboratory, there are flashes of Blue and Silver as she works with the hooded member of their world. Very occasionally you see a flash of eyes glinting in the laboratory. Silimna pelts something up in a mortar and pestle to the sound of grinding stone. The hooded person makes intricate hand gestures, incanting, summoning ancient Lore. Silimna studies the alchemical formulae as silvery blue fires suddenly flare in the Mortar and Pestle Hallowed Mother Infuse this with your Holy Power The fire burns incandescent Holy Eilistraee, guide mine hands Bear me through this trial I hold you near to mine heart My faith for you is unshaken The robed and hooded figure suddenly sprinkles a silvery powder into the mix and you can suddenly hear a chorus of Voices. Hallowed be thine name Courage find the True Heart In an explosion of cobolt and silver - and in a plume of smoke, the hooded figure whispers it is ready
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-05, 07:16 AM	Sil, you realise that this is the only active good aligned guild next to the keep. and thier prepared for war. edit: And in two diffrent universes, Li'rauk is an elven god of outcasts and in another one, he's an elven warmage who likes freezing his opponents, then melting them. Hallowed mother guide our footsteps With thine love, bear us on the journey home
Sargatanas 11-02-05, 09:27 AM	G'day Gabe - we must do what you suggest! (perhaps some 'super-secret-defences-mapping-with-Mandos is in order....) 2,000,000 Gold hey! That's enough for woooooooooaaaaaaaa + 2,000,000 for the Winter Leaf + 2,000,000 for The Drow of Eilistraee *kaching* goes the cash register! @All interested I've been in daily contact with Anglar - he's doing very well, and Silmarien, in another Universe has started a church of Rh'iel, after everyone found out Corellan is dead. Anglar and Sil's union, (drow and elf and human) mirrored the marriage of a lesser elf deity and Eilistraee The Drow and Elves are back on track! (in that Universe) okay - will be back soon - gotta grab dinner - and then .....more product and RP incoming... @Gabrion AND and RP response! No no no... 1,000,000gp, not two. Also, it has to be a REAL guild.
Wilds 11-02-05, 10:26 AM	More stuff to blow up though :weep: ......
jagggar 11-02-05, 11:19 AM	Drat, you beat cj to the punch. Yes, only 1,000,000. I'm not too particular about approving if guilds should be allowed to be hush-hush or not. However, I have to see the guilds stats and such for the guild to be approved. Should whoever find a hush-hush's guild's location and go there, the guild master or an appropriate representitive should be able to post an opening post with minimum of the first room they come to, what doors they see, and if there's a 'welcoming' party or not. Oh, and the prune is still scheduled. Sounds like the games boards are going to be last. So if you haven't saved the HEF recently, you should be doing that again. Likewise, could some evil guy be really nice and quote the Skygge from the first GoUE to the current GoUE? Actually, better yet, post it in Matierals thread.
Wilds 11-02-05, 11:32 AM	nm no idea where the frack it is
jagggar 11-02-05, 11:40 AM	Only if a better mouse is a more powerful one. I prefer to think that a better mouse would be smarter and more versatile perhaps, but not necessarily more powerful. The better mouse trap is the one that fits the job your looking for the best. Kill the mouse. Catch the mouse. Kill and catch the mouse. Whatever happens with the mouse, I don't touch it. A bigger mouse trap is a rat trap. Poison will kill a mouse, but it will probably have the chance to crawl off and die somewhere else. That's why my dad didn't use poison. We use the basic spring powered kill-trap, the stereotype. And I know it's failed before because I took the little tiny mouse and let him outside on the other side of our block. It only trapped his tail, didn't come down on vitals. That was a tiny, lucky mouse. There were other, average sized mice who were smarter. They even knew how to lick all the bait off the trigger without it going off. That's a much more clever mouse than the mouse that sets it off and eats the bait or eats the bait sitting infront of his dead friend. TV last night I saw this add for one where you didn't have to see or touch the mouse. That sounds pretty nice to me. (Nice, but also expensive.) But some people don't want to kill poor little mouse-y. In that case, the spring loaded trap is not gunna work. Reviewing what I've typed, I'd say the best mouse trap is the mouse trap that completes its goal without any errors (escapes/false alarms) with the least amount of effort.
Demonfey 11-02-05, 11:43 AM	And technically, the GoPG and the GoUE haven't declared themselves if I recall correctly. Oops...declaring the GoUE IG Also, I'll take care of the skygge.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-05, 04:47 PM	From Anglar Return to Life. An Elven High Magic that makes an undead mortal again, no save, no SR. But it's Epic level. Good morning (evening) everyone! stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-05, 04:54 PM	The better mouse trap is the one that fits the job your looking for the best. Kill the mouse. Catch the mouse. Kill and catch the mouse. Whatever happens with the mouse, I don't touch it. A bigger mouse trap is a rat trap. Poison will kill a mouse, but it will probably have the chance to crawl off and die somewhere else. That's why my dad didn't use poison. We use the basic spring powered kill-trap, the stereotype. And I know it's failed before because I took the little tiny mouse and let him outside on the other side of our block. It only trapped his tail, didn't come down on vitals. That was a tiny, lucky mouse. There were other, average sized mice who were smarter. They even knew how to lick all the bait off the trigger without it going off. That's a much more clever mouse than the mouse that sets it off and eats the bait or eats the bait sitting infront of his dead friend. TV last night I saw this add for one where you didn't have to see or touch the mouse. That sounds pretty nice to me. (Nice, but also expensive.) But some people don't want to kill poor little mouse-y. In that case, the spring loaded trap is not gunna work. Reviewing what I've typed, I'd say the best mouse trap is the mouse trap that completes its goal without any errors (escapes/false alarms) with the least amount of effort. :rofl: a very, um technical explanation - thorough....meticulous attention to mouse-methodology (you forgot the option of "shrill scream" for mouse-fearer-ers) Shrill Scream Evocation Cleric, 9 (Good) Save=None SR=No Upon casting this spell, the caster emits a high-pitched scream, more deadly than the Wail of the Banshee. All within 50 miles hears the shreak. The shreak will shatter glass, porcelaine and even hardened glass. All within 5 miles must stop their ears or be immediately scared out of the area. The shreak will affect any being capable of cognition, and any animal consciousness as well. The spell is so powerful that Undead exposed to the scream, will remember their former lives with total clarity and their bodies are infused with Mortal energy. This spell causes Undead to return to life, by expelling negative energy from their bodies.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-05, 05:05 PM	Drat, you beat cj to the punch. Yes, only 1,000,000. I'm not too particular about approving if guilds should be allowed to be hush-hush or not. However, I have to see the guilds stats and such for the guild to be approved. Should whoever find a hush-hush's guild's location and go there, the guild master or an appropriate representitive should be able to post an opening post with minimum of the first room they come to, what doors they see, and if there's a 'welcoming' party or not. Oh, and the prune is still scheduled. Sounds like the games boards are going to be last. So if you haven't saved the HEF recently, you should be doing that again. Likewise, could some evil guy be really nice and quote the Skygge from the first GoUE to the current GoUE? Actually, better yet, post it in Matierals thread. Patron Driven Initiatives, should be encouraged. Creativity is a human process, not a managerial process, if that makes any sense....anyhowz, I've PM'd ya 'bout this stuff. Innovation as well :) regards stav
Wilds 11-02-05, 06:44 PM	Shrill Scream Evocation Cleric, 9 (Good) Save=None SR=No Upon casting this spell, the caster emits a high-pitched scream, more deadly than the Wail of the Banshee. All within 50 miles hears the shreak. The shreak will shatter glass, porcelaine and even hardened glass. All within 5 miles must stop their ears or be immediately scared out of the area. The shreak will affect any being capable of cognition, and any animal consciousness as well. The spell is so powerful that Undead exposed to the scream, will remember their former lives with total clarity and their bodies are infused with Mortal energy. This spell causes Undead to return to life, by expelling negative energy from their bodies. :eek: Ok Sil that might just be pushing it a little.
premier666 11-02-05, 07:23 PM	YO! :cool: G'day Gabe - we must do what you suggest! (perhaps some 'super-secret-defences-mapping-with-Mandos is in order....) Actually, the whole púrpose of Mandos coming is help to unite all forces of good in this world, to fight against evil. Unfortunatly, due to the fact that there are no other declared good guilds in the IFGW aside from the grashmal keep, has keeping him from doing anything lately.
Gellion 11-02-05, 07:29 PM	:eek: Ok Sil that might just be pushing it a little. You havent seen nothing yet! Now I just need to find the Avatar Dweomer Master!
Wilds 11-02-05, 08:02 PM	You havent seen nothing yet! Now I just need to find the Avatar Dweomer Master! I have such an earge to make a spell to kill people with no save or sr and usable from really far away. SBB will have a booming business there after
Demonfey 11-02-05, 08:39 PM	:rofl: a very, um technical explanation - thorough....meticulous attention to mouse-methodology (you forgot the option of "shrill scream" for mouse-fearer-ers) Shrill Scream Evocation Cleric, 9 (Good) Save=None SR=No Upon casting this spell, the caster emits a high-pitched scream, more deadly than the Wail of the Banshee. All within 50 miles hears the shreak. The shreak will shatter glass, porcelaine and even hardened glass. All within 5 miles must stop their ears or be immediately scared out of the area. The shreak will affect any being capable of cognition, and any animal consciousness as well. The spell is so powerful that Undead exposed to the scream, will remember their former lives with total clarity and their bodies are infused with Mortal energy. This spell causes Undead to return to life, by expelling negative energy from their bodies. Oh, come on! If you say it's like Wail of the Banshee, then it should have saves like Wail of the Banshee. That's epic! And unecessary! But mostly epic! I mean, five MILE radius? Heard fifty miles away? That's going overboard, Sil.
Wilds 11-02-05, 08:48 PM	Oh, come on! If you say it's like Wail of the Banshee, then it should have saves like Wail of the Banshee. That's epic! And unecessary! But mostly epic! I mean, five MILE radius? Heard fifty miles away? That's going overboard, Sil. Lol the GoPG doesnt techinally exist..... So.... we could attack the keep and no one from the GoPG could help cause they dont belong to any group. That or we need to make a spell to kill all elves with in a say a few million miles? O make it cross planar
Demonfey 11-02-05, 09:00 PM	...Tetsuo and Sulkyr are technically elves.
Wilds 11-02-05, 09:08 PM	O, uhh just make it target good elves only then
premier666 11-02-05, 09:29 PM	Lol the GoPG doesnt techinally exist..... So.... we could attack the keep and no one from the GoPG could help cause they dont belong to any group. That or we need to make a spell to kill all elves with in a say a few million miles? O make it cross planar You do realise that most members of the GoPG also are members of the keep right?
Wilds 11-02-05, 09:35 PM	no well i do now hmm crap :mad:
Demonfey 11-02-05, 09:47 PM	You realize it makes our jobs easier, right?
Wilds 11-02-05, 09:56 PM	sweet
Blasphemous Revenant 11-02-05, 10:16 PM	I know this may be very late, but concerning the Necrotic Cyst line of spells: 1. They require a feat to use. 2. They require previous success with a low level spell (they don't work unless you hit 'em with Necrotic Cyst first). 3. Almost all of them DO allow saving throws. 4. Some of them require XP components. 5. A simple 1st-level spell blocks Necrotic Cyst, and so therefore prevents the whole line of spells from functioning. 6. A DC 20 Heal check removes the Necrotic Cyst (at higher levels, which most of the spells are, many characters would have a high enough Heal modifier to automatically succeed). 7. Many of them mimic spells from the Player's Handbook, except might have a slight advantage (a slightly lower spell-level, a slightly more powerful effect). EDIT: I've finally read up all the way through the topic to the present. Took me all day, but I've done it.
Tenzhi 11-03-05, 01:13 AM	The better mouse trap is the one that fits the job your looking for the best. But that's no way to drink coffee.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-05, 04:00 AM	@Demonfey + Wilds the spell was a JOKE, fellas! - it was, um jagggar's comments about a mouse and all that. I had a vision of a shrieking person on a chair, in fear of a tiny mouse..... I have a memory of my mum (ozzie version of mom) - who was normally like a lioness guarding her cubs - ward to anyone dumb enough to try to hurt her kids - and she was reduced to a screaming, shrieking, mess, on a chair, just like in the cartoons! By a tiny weeny mouse. you could hear the scream for five miles all around - is what we say to this day (we didn't go metric in Australia until the 70's - my dad used to speak about travelling "a mile a minute" at 60). I remember, as a child, scratching my head, agog at the sight. Haven't been able to stop myself laughing to this day, every time I remember it. @Tenzhi Hello Tenzhi @All a real spell incoming.... :)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-05, 04:20 AM	Restore Fealty Vivomancy/Vibrant/Vegemite Level: Cleric 6 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: ? Range: Unlimited Effect: ? Target: All creatures bound by the One Memory or Damaging Event, limited to 5 per caster level Duration: ? Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes Many times in life, we say and do things that hurt others. Sometimes the act is inadvertent and sometimes it is deliberate. The sorts of things that damage our faith and trust in others are 'affairs of the heart' such as infidelity, betrayals, deceptions, acts of gross selfishness. More serious violations include physical abuse such as maiming, blinding, and causing great bodily harm to another. At the most serious, the treacherous, violent act can affect many hudreds or thousands of souls at once. The evil cleric's infliction of disease upon a nation, the murder of a benign sovereign working towards peace, the covert subterfuge that leads to the coming to war of formerly peaceful nations. When this spell is cast, the Cleric of Vivomancy/Biomancy/Vegemite summons powerful forces from the Positive Energy Plane. Stardust she summons to her call, a great swirling energy of vibrant silvery blue fires, like those of a burning hot blue star. Her aura becomes visible, burning with the fires of creation. The Cleric then Hallows the power, infusing it with Divine Healing and Inspiration. The Cleric then propels the Hallowed Power through the Weave, so that the target is instantly struck, irrespective of physical distance, provided the creatures are on the same Plane. The holy, vibrant energy then burns its way into the Mind, finding the Memory of Love that exists in a Timeless state, within the Psyche. This Memory of Love, in those who have been betrayed, is encased in outer layers of the Memory of Betrayal. The effect in the creature is like an Interdict, that prevents the person so damaged from trying again. But, when the Holy Positive Energy finds the ancient memory of Love, Hallowed powers then transforms the outer memories of damage and betrayal into forgivness. All people so touched are suddenly reducted to rivers of tears as they remember their Kinship. All grief is resolved, without removing the memory of how the damage happened. Powerful clerics who use this magic, may mend rifts in divided nations by targeting pivotal people.
Tenzhi 11-03-05, 06:44 AM	Note: Creatures devoid of love (Golems, Lawyers, The Elf-Bane, etc.) are immune to this spell, though it may leave them depressed and hungry.
Wilds 11-03-05, 10:25 AM	Good thign Elan go through mind-wiping process. So my guy doesnt exactly remember stuff like that
jagggar 11-03-05, 10:26 AM	See, this is one of those places where I don't see how a new school of magic is merited. Once I get past the abundance of fluff, it looks like it's a [Mind-Affecting] spell except that it can affect undead. Speaking of which, does it make sense that all undead are immune to mind affecting stuffs? I understand the mindless simple as pie, but why can't I make Vampie think he's my friend?
Wilds 11-03-05, 10:28 AM	I have a memory of my mum (ozzie version of mom) - who was normally like a lioness guarding her cubs - ward to anyone dumb enough to try to hurt her kids - and she was reduced to a screaming, shrieking, mess, on a chair, just like in the cartoons! By a tiny weeny mouse. you could hear the scream for five miles all around - is what we say to this day (we didn't go metric in Australia until the 70's - my dad used to speak about travelling "a mile a minute" at 60). I remember, as a child, scratching my head, agog at the sight. Haven't been able to stop myself laughing to this day, every time I remember it. means your countrys goverment thought for a second or two. Wish the US would switch, in science here they use metric. So we have to learn both, which is always joyful cause the equations to switch between the two methods are a pain, similar to self impose cutting out of an eye, i beleive. And makes it realllllyyyyyyyy fun going to another country that uses Metric only, cause not many peopel know how to change Km to miles.
Demonfey 11-03-05, 11:06 AM	See, this is one of those places where I don't see how a new school of magic is merited. Once I get past the abundance of fluff, it looks like it's a [Mind-Affecting] spell except that it can affect undead. Speaking of which, does it make sense that all undead are immune to mind affecting stuffs? I understand the mindless simple as pie, but why can't I make Vampie think he's my friend? Don't know. Death giving them new perception, maybe? Or possibly their brains, while there, are just too dead for the spell to accept it as anything but a corpse? Like a "dumb" missile. It doesn't differentiate between, say, an orphanage and a military base, it just blows up whatever it hits first.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-03-05, 12:54 PM	The knight taps his foot, still waiting for the lord of the Guild of Pure good to show up. He looks around a bit annoyed, he slaps his forehead when the elf starts singing... again. That was really getting old, why did these elves see it neccessary to sing when they were in the middle of a war? Who knew... who cared... "Hey... think I can see the guild master here some day? I've been waiting for a while now and I'm sure Lord Arcanus is getting anxious. I mean is this guy dead or just hiding himself?"
gabrion 11-03-05, 01:48 PM	The knight taps his foot, still waiting for the lord of the Guild of Pure good to show up. He looks around a bit annoyed, he slaps his forehead when the elf starts singing... again. That was really getting old, why did these elves see it neccessary to sing when they were in the middle of a war? Who knew... who cared... "Hey... think I can see the guild master here some day? I've been waiting for a while now and I'm sure Lord Arcanus is getting anxious. I mean is this guy dead or just hiding himself?" A feeble old man with wearing only a travel worn robe and carrying a simple walking staff replies to the messenger, "The master of this Guild has been injured in a most horrible way and he seems to be recovering at the moment. If you're lucky he may be feeling well enough to come see you, but you may have to wait some time before that happens. Of course you are welcome to wait in these halls as long as it takes to get an audience. If you are in more of a hurry, I could pass your message along to our leader, but that's up to you."
Demonfey 11-03-05, 01:59 PM	The knight taps his foot, still waiting for the lord of the Guild of Pure good to show up. He looks around a bit annoyed, he slaps his forehead when the elf starts singing... again. That was really getting old, why did these elves see it neccessary to sing when they were in the middle of a war? Who knew... who cared... "Hey... think I can see the guild master here some day? I've been waiting for a while now and I'm sure Lord Arcanus is getting anxious. I mean is this guy dead or just hiding himself?" You know, I've always wondered why elves did that myself. Or at least the elves here. And considering how dull it gets around here, I come to liven things up once in a while, so if you'd excuse me *wolf darts around the person* I've got some theft to take care of. *Heads towards the GoPG's vault, picking up a rather large bag in its teeth*
gabrion 11-03-05, 02:45 PM	You know, I've always wondered why elves did that myself. Or at least the elves here. And considering how dull it gets around here, I come to liven things up once in a while, so if you'd excuse me *wolf darts around the person* I've got some theft to take care of. *Heads towards the GoPG's vault, picking up a rather large bag in its teeth* Can someone with an approved character here please kill him? :)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-05, 03:54 PM	See, this is one of those places where I don't see how a new school of magic is merited. Once I get past the abundance of fluff, it looks like it's a [Mind-Affecting] spell except that it can affect undead. Speaking of which, does it make sense that all undead are immune to mind affecting stuffs? I understand the mindless simple as pie, but why can't I make Vampie think he's my friend? Good mornin'/evenin' jagggs. *focuses stare* magic in D&D isn't real and can be argued the way you see it. It's all fluff in the final analysis. The crunch is imagined and orchestrated in the structural parameters. Mind Alterations - Enchantment - don't utilise Holy power and they also don't utilise Positive Energy. Transformations - are a ditto on the origins of the power and often they act in concrete ways - over the physical universe (e.g. you get turned into a mouse). Conceptually, each school of magic can easily be subsumed into one school, if one wanted - the Conjurer, for example, or the Prestidigitator, or the Enchanter or Wizard. The distinctions are artificial, ultimately. Biomancy is distinct. next post.....incoming
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-05, 03:59 PM	Silimna is poised in the moment, just after she apologised to the Knight and his sidekick - or vice-versa. She rearranges the tresses of her hair, and smoothes out the folds of her Diviner garb. Like her first cousin's, it is blue and silver. Symbols of holy power and association to the Divine trace the hems of the dress. The Holy Symbol of the Drow of Eilistraee glints under the sunshine. You can see the dancing naked woman, with long hair. As you catch a sight of her, waves of melodic song trace the lines of your consciousness, like an affirming balm. Though the undead bear the hallmark of danger and forboding and though the world is filled with many dark things, transformation of the darkness can be achieved. My son gathers information about the strategic alliances of our world. Alliances may be shaped and broken. In these matters, there is much to influence. Speak of your concerns, Knight and Benign Wizard
Demonfey 11-03-05, 04:19 PM	Sure you want to ally with them? They seem to never get anything done.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-05, 04:23 PM	Sure you want to ally with them? They seem to never get anything done. *chuckles* all that lembas baking takes time you know. Those spirces in Aryvandaar are so hard to find. You need to find the grave of a sire of the Elven Bloodline who were rulers - and then the damned flowers only grow on one grave a year. *mutters*
Demonfey 11-03-05, 04:29 PM	Well, yes, but here's the thing I'm trying to hint at: last time, the GoPG went down to easily. Few kraken, a swarm or two, and the entire place went down like a lead weight. What fun is fighting good if it goes down before any evil PCs even get here?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-05, 04:33 PM	means your countrys goverment thought for a second or two. Wish the US would switch, in science here they use metric. So we have to learn both, which is always joyful cause the equations to switch between the two methods are a pain, similar to self impose cutting out of an eye, i beleive. And makes it realllllyyyyyyyy fun going to another country that uses Metric only, cause not many peopel know how to change Km to miles. *chuckles* hello wilds. I can remember being told, in the car that "a kilometer is 5/8ths of a mile - you multiply by 5 and divide by 8" (when all the signs changed, we had an older car with miles on the speedo). It's farenheit to celcius that's the hardest. You gotta remember to subtract (or is it add), what is it, 32 degrees before multiplying by [100-32]/37.5 ? Is that right?). I still like the sound of "one mile" - or better "a LEAGUE" - which all gives me an idea about SPELLS..... Distortions of heat, distance, size, shape and volume - these will be the Newtonian series. Distortions of Time - the Einsteinian series (erm, for another time in the epic lands) regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-05, 04:39 PM	Well, yes, but here's the thing I'm trying to hint at: last time, the GoPG went down to easily. Few kraken, a swarm or two, and the entire place went down like a lead weight. What fun is fighting good if it goes down before any evil PCs even get here? I've been avoiding this topic, as you'd prolly have worked out by now. But, I have been speaking to our GMs about it - um GM (singular), effectively. Sorry for the delay, my friend :) We don't have structural parameters, here. The opening post is non IFG compliant. Thasis needs to be consulted, and these things all take time. I don't see the Guild as ready, just yet, in a nutshell. And - hopefully - this next one isn't topical by now, and you've worked out that i) there's a way to include HEFish stuff and ii) there are many options for that road. This last one is not to be rushed, in any way. It's immaterial, at this time, and I have Silimna and Varendil (Silmarien's 1st cousin once removed) to assist. regards stav
Demonfey 11-03-05, 04:44 PM	Okay. Oh, while I'm here, can I ask if anyone here's good at rough layouts for fortresses? I know Orcy is, but he still has a couple floors to work on with the Keep.
Blasphemous Revenant 11-03-05, 05:41 PM	Okay. Oh, while I'm here, can I ask if anyone here's good at rough layouts for fortresses? I know Orcy is, but he still has a couple floors to work on with the Keep. I'm somewhat okay at designing fortresses, but it takes me forever to finish anything. I'm looking to improve my architectural skills, especially in Gothic Architecture.
Demonfey 11-03-05, 05:44 PM	Thanks for responding, Revnant. I may come to you about a basic internal layout for the GoUE later.
Demonfey 11-03-05, 05:47 PM	Silimna is poised in the moment, just after she apologised to the Knight and his sidekick - or vice-versa. She rearranges the tresses of her hair, and smoothes out the folds of her Diviner garb. Like her first cousin's, it is blue and silver. Symbols of holy power and association to the Divine trace the hems of the dress. The Holy Symbol of the Drow of Eilistraee glints under the sunshine. You can see the dancing naked woman, with long hair. As you catch a sight of her, waves of melodic song trace the lines of your consciousness, like an affirming balm. Though the undead bear the hallmark of danger and forboding and though the world is filled with many dark things, transformation of the darkness can be achieved. My son gathers information about the strategic alliances of our world. Alliances may be shaped and broken. In these matters, there is much to influence. Speak of your concerns, Knight and Benign Wizard Well, currently your strongest guild alliance possibility is standing right over there. Now, can someone point me in the direction of the vault?
Wilds 11-03-05, 06:42 PM	I can remember being told, in the car that "a kilometer is 5/8ths of a mile - you multiply by 5 and divide by 8" (when all the signs changed, we had an older car with miles on the speedo). It's farenheit to celcius that's the hardest. You gotta remember to subtract (or is it add), what is it, 32 degrees before multiplying by [100-32]/37.5 ? Is that right?). 5/8ths? crap. thought it was 2.2 to 1 ratio. 2.2 Km to 1 Mile.
gabrion 11-03-05, 06:59 PM	5/8ths? crap. thought it was 2.2 to 1 ratio. 2.2 Km to 1 Mile. Maybe you're thinking of Kg to Lbs? Now, can someone point me in the direction of the vault? Ya, it's right over there in that non-existant structure and it's full of our as of yet non-existent funds. Help yourself. ;)
Wilds 11-03-05, 07:35 PM	arg maybe its kg to lbs. dont know anymore stupid US education system
thasis 11-03-05, 11:03 PM	I'm kinnda having a real life breakdown. Counsiling is going to be required, getting grounded alot, back **** happening... I'm going to be limited to how much time I spend on my computer and on these specific message boards especialy if I keep on yelling at my parents and getting grouned as much as I have lately.
Tenzhi 11-03-05, 11:23 PM	I'm kinnda having a real life breakdown. Counsiling is going to be required, getting grounded alot, back **** happening... I'm going to be limited to how much time I spend on my computer and on these specific message boards especialy if I keep on yelling at my parents and getting grouned as much as I have lately. I remember being young and rebellious; now I'm just old and cantankerous - which is pretty much the same just with more aches and gray hairs.
thasis 11-03-05, 11:55 PM	Young and rebellious? Na, that's not me. I'm more along of the lines having home problems. My parents think I'm crazy or something. I tend to have a negative outlook on life. I see a world full of corruption, hate, and evil. Now my parents think I need to go to therapy cause I don't agree with there supposed happy lifestyle. We got into a fight about it cause I don't feel like going to be mentally evaluated. It seems I'm going anywayz... :(
Wilds 11-04-05, 12:30 AM	You will pull through it. Just explain to the person and dont be hostile to said person. Ive gone to counseling too, but that was for other reasons. Your view is not an extreme one, just keep calm and everyhting should get better. Just try to stay calm and not let your emotions get control. Explain everything rationally and clearly.
Tenzhi 11-04-05, 01:06 AM	I hate to break it to you, but not agreeing with/adhering to the status quo is, in fact, rebellious. ;) There's nothing inherently wrong with it, though. As Wilds said, just don't get hostile with the counsellor, explain your views in such a way that doesn't make it sound like you're going to harm yourself or other people (though I understand that the temptation to go all Rorschach may be strong), and you should be okay. Yes, it's annoying, but there are worse things. Oh yeah: Be wary of pills. ;)
Wilds 11-04-05, 01:26 AM	uhhh not adhering with teh status quo maybe rebellious, but then we are all guilty. its when you are deviant that things get interesting. And if you dont feel like joining the rest of society (i hope not ;) ) you can find other people like yourself. yeah stay away from pills you dont ahve to conform to society to fit in. I know sure as (ill bleep this so wizards doesnt have too) i dont fit in this society well most of it. I found my little nitch in angry music Disturbed, Godsmack etc. Just find where you belong.
gabrion 11-04-05, 03:20 AM	Thasis... 1) Sorry to hear about the problems and as others here have said, I'm sure you'll pull through just fine. Be true to yourself. 2) Since you may be gone for some time, but this guild is your "child" so to speak, do you mind if some of us take up the task of creating floorplans/laying out defenses/etc.?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 06:03 AM	5/8ths? crap. thought it was 2.2 to 1 ratio. 2.2 Km to 1 Mile. it;s 5/8ths, my friend. :) 62.5 miles per hour = 100 km/hour (check the Internet) 100/8=12.5 12.5 X 5 = 62.5 miles per hour. @thasis noone except you, ultimately, has your answers, my friend. :) A good counsellor won't tell you how you need to be, they'll help you work out who you are and how to be happy. I shouldn't comment on it more than that - out of respect for your family. What I can offer is that I'm no stranger to both sides of the counselling equation. I absolutely loved my time in therapy - I've never grown so much in such a short time in my life. But, I was ready for it. @all more GoPG product.....INCOMING..... PS Anglar is gettin' his passport together - I'm so very looking forwards!!!!! What a trip is the whole thing! It's truly like crossing into an alternate universe.....
Tenzhi 11-04-05, 09:03 AM	I absolutely loved my time in therapy - I've never grown so much in such a short time in my life. But, I was ready for it. To paraquip from Night Court's Buddy: I spent the summer married to a tub of Cool Whip, but I'm feeling *much* better now. ::insert grin that isn't quite reassuringly sane here::
thasis 11-04-05, 09:56 AM	Thanks for the support guys... I shall be posting what I can starting Sunday. What I can get in is probally going to be limited compared to what I've done in the past but I'll see what I can do... Audious untill next week!
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 07:11 PM	Open Channel to the Divine Vivomancy/Vibrant/Vegemite Level: Cleric 6 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: ? Range: Unlimited Effect: ? Target: All creatures bound by the One Memory or Damaging Event, limited to 5 per caster level Duration: ? Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes We never know which way the pathway of life will take us. The currents that tug in our lives bring us to many different cross roads at many different times for many different reasons. Sometimes, a being is exposed to very damaging forces that challenge their faith in people, others, or the world. At such times, a person may arrive at a crisis in faith. The Drow of Eilistraee live in a very dark world. They frequently lose people they love to hostile, unforgiving forces. The injuries may be all the more profound because they may come from their own folk. In order to protect themselves, the Drow Clerics of Eilistraee, in an act of forsight, recognised that there was a way to fortify cognition - to bolster the mind, on the one hand by opening a channel to the Divine on the other, with an act of Will, clarity and Hallowed self-truth telling, on the other. After a serious physical, mental or biological insult, The Diviner summons forth the living matter of Stars. Powerful positive energy is gathered, and like all spells in the Biomancy/Vegemite sphere of Divine magic, she fortifies that powerful energy with the Holy, Hallowed power of Divinity. The target is then asked to think, speak and chant, so naming their pain. It is essential that the target get it out there. As they suffering soul is doing this, the Diviner hurls the powerful magic at the target, and the incandescent, cobolt-silver power infuses the target's entire being. Like all Biomancy, the spell's visual effects are spectacular to onlookers. What is seen is like looking at a person suddenly burning like a miniature star. To the target, the inner experience is Transcendent. Suddenly, Hallowed Voice is right before them, because the person sees an echo of the creator in the Hallowed Living Starfires. The experience is humbling, because of the sudden seeing of such beauty, beyond the ken of mortal word. Whilst in this state, the target is unable to be deceived. All bluff, intimidate and diplomacy checks are an automatic success for the spell's target. The target also automatically recognises other's lies they tell themselves and understands the forces that motivate them, thus, all Sense Motive checks are automatic success. The will is fortified as well and all Will Saves are made at +2, +1 for every 2 levels of the Cleric. In addition to this, by seeing their own lies by exposure to the Divine, the Cleric gains exquisite insight about the lies of others. Those things that people tell themselves that are not true and that are about lying to the self - mental defences, usually against rejection, pain, fear, shame and hurt. The Cleric transcends all of it, in a beautific moment of connection to all of life and all the living. In this state of pure clarity, the Cleric knows how to fortify any spell that influences another in a positive way. Thus, a suggestion spell, cast with the intention of encouraging the target to find inner peace, forgiveness or to abandon an evil pursuit (e.g. don't hurt the Elven King for he loves his people. You will damage yourself if you hurt the King, will be fortified (add +2 +1 for every 2 levels of the Cleric to the DC). Importantly, any suggestion that may hurt or damage the target is downwardly modified by the same amount. The Cleric will terminate their own spell automatically if they try to damage anyone. At the ending of the spell, the Cleric's faith in goodness is re-affirmed. Comments What I need to do, is work out exactly which kind of spell DC's are fortified in this spell model, and the terms for fortification. The spell's mechanics are very fuzzy on this point. I'd be curious to hear your ideas. an essay about Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite.....incoming
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 07:24 PM	My god - I've got 10 pages to catch up our lists on. I can't believe it - only two weeks!! *grins* well done everyone! Banes of the Undead, from Libris Mortis Positive Energy Effects (p. 19-20) Bless water (2d4 damage to undead, or 1 damage with splash); Cure Wounds (Deals damage to undead by touch); Disrupt Undead (Deals 1d6 damage to undead at range); Heal (Deals 10 hp/level damage to undead by touch); Mass Heal (Deals 10 hp/level damage to many undead at range. Effects of Sunlight Spells (p. 19-20) Searing Light Spell (Deals 1d6/level damage to undead at range, or 1d8/level damage to sunlight-vulnerable undead at range); Sunbeam (Deals 1d6/level damage to undead at range or destroys sunlight-vulnerable undead at range); Sunburst (Deals 1d6/level damge to undead at range, or destroys sunlight-vulnerable undead at range). Spell Effects on Undead (p. 19-21) Antimagic Field (Incorporeal Undead wink out while in area); Chill Touch (Touched undead flees as if paniced for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level); Consecrate (Turning checks gain +3 bonus; undead take -1 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves); Disrupting Weapon (destroys undead of equal or lower HD to you, on failed Will Save); Hallow (Turn checks gain +4 bonus); Magic Stone (Each stone deals 2d6 damage to undead); Wall of Fire (Deals double damage to undead). Feats Consecrate Spell (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562806&postcount=219) (Imbue your spells with the energy of Pure Good, p. 79-80, Complete Divine); Disciple of the Sun (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562853&postcount=220) (Spend two Turn Attempts and Destroy Undead, p. 80, Complete Divine); Divine Accuracy (Spend one turn/rebuke undead to grant all allies within 60-ft. radius burst ability to reroll their miss chance with melee attackes whenever they miss a foe because of a miss chance caused by incorporealness, p. 26); Empower Turning (multiply turning damage roll by 1-1/2, p. 26); Enduring Life (you can ignore the effect of negative levels for 1 minute per constition score bonus); Energise Spell (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569643&postcount=238) (Your spells channel positive energy to deal extra damage to undead creatures but are less effective against other creatures, 50% more and less respectively p. 26); Ghost Scarred (You are adept at fighting incorporeal undead, +2 insight bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls against incorporeal undead. You also gain a +2 bonus on all saving throws made to resist the spells or abilities of incorporeal undead, p. 27); Heighten Turning (You can affect more powerful undead with your turning or rebuking attempts; you add a chosen number, no higher than your level to turning check and substract this from undead damage, p. 27); Lasting Life (You can shed negative levels with an act of will, a standard action, DC=10+1/2 attacker's HD+attacker's Char modifier, may repeat each round, p. 28); Quicken Turning (You can turn or rebuke undead with a moment's thought, free action, once per round, p. 29); Requiem (Your bardic music affects undead creatures, but for half duration, p. 29); Sacred Vengeance (You can channel energy to deal extra damage against undead in melee, as a free action, spend one of your turn undead attempts to add 2d6 points of damage to all your successful melee attacks, at end of round, p. 30); Sacred Vitality (You can channel positive energy to gain protection from damage to your abilities of your life force, a standard action, you can spend one of your turning attempts to gain immunity to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain for 1 minute); Spurn Death's Touch (You can channel divine energy to remove some of the harmful effets of attacks amde by undead creatures, spend a turn attempt, standard action, heal 1d4 points of ability damage, roemove a pralysis effect or remove a negative level, p. 30); Unquenchable Flame of Life 9You are harened to the attacks of the undead, +2 bouns on all saves against the extraordinary or supernatural abilities of the undead); Vampire Hunter (Your knowledge of vampires has given you the extraordinary ability to detect subtle signs of their presence and to resist their dominating gaze ability, take a move action to unfailingly determine whether a vampire or vampire spawn is within 30' of you. In addition, you are immune to the dominating gaze ability of vampires and vampire sapwn, p. 31). Specific Spells Ectoplasmic Armour (+5 armour bonus to AC, +1 bonus/4 caster levels, p. 64); Ectoplasmic Feedback (Any incorporeal creature that hits you takes 1d6 points of force damage +1 point per caster level, maximum +10, p. 64); Protection from Negative Energy (DR 10 for attacks caused by negative energy, p. 70); Sheltered Vitality (This spell from LM makes the caster immune to fatigue, exhaustion, and ability drain or damage for 1 min/level, p. 71); Spark of Life (makes undead vulnerable to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, and damge to its physical ability scores [though it still lacks a constitution score and can't take constitution damage]. It loses its immunity to effects that require a Fortitude save, as well as its invulnerability to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects, p. 71); Spawn Screen (Prevents you from coming back as an Undead if you copped it p. 71); Undead Bane Weapon (weapon gains +2 versus undead, +2d6 damage, at caster level 9 weapon gains +1 enhancement bonus if not already a magical weapon, p. 72) PrCs Master of Radience-PrC from LM that is made specifically for fighting undead. Banes of the Undead - to Build Spells, Spell-like Abilities, Supernatural Powers that create Auras that modify Undead's Saves, DC Checks, Attacks and Skill Checks downwardly; Knocking out the Will Saves of sentient Undead; ways of Improving Turn Attempts, using magical modifiers; ways of "Quickening" Turn Undead Attempts; and the converse, ways of imbuing normal spells with Turn Undead; poisoning Undead flesh, like the Necrotic spell series on the living, but in reverse; spells for downwardly modifying assailants that draw on energy from the Positive Material Plane. Juxtapositioning Power - Things to Compare New Powers to Undead Graft & the Pale Master (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568911&postcount=226); Summary of the Ne-Creepy-Mantic Cyst Bloat Things (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7596979&postcount=371); Summary of Ne-Creepy-Mantic Spells by Alignment Descriptor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597045&postcount=373); Undead Grafts (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597151&postcount=375); The MOTHER Cyst Feat Creepy Thing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7602256&postcount=406).
turalisj 11-04-05, 07:25 PM	Sil, go to the spells part of the dnd board. Post your stuff there, or I will.
gabrion 11-04-05, 07:31 PM	Let me preface this comment by saying that your ideas are always very inventive and fun to read through. Now after saying something nice I can be mean, right? :D My opinion on this spell and the last one you posted is that they both belong in the Enchantment [Mind-Affecting] school/category. The current mechanics handle what you are trying to do just fine and I don't see a need for Vegemite (actually, I don't think Vegemite should exist at all :P ). Second, while you're descriptions of the spells are very "artistic," I don't think they follow the proper model (take a look at the SRD to see what I mean). Spell descriptions should just lay out the mechanical effect they have in game, not have a whole long description of what color they are and what the effect looks like. Why? Well simply because if you write all that stuff in the spell, you LIMIT ARTISTIC freedom of players. What if I want my vegemite spell to look completely different than yours? Does your spell allow for that as written? I think you should leave out the flavor text since that kind of stuff is up to the person using a given spell/special ability/item/etc. Third, you need to make sure it specifies who gets a saving throw for the spell. If it is the target, then it should be listed as 'Will negates (harmless)'. That would be a problem in my mind though, cause anyone they interact with should get a will save to ignore the effects of the spell (if you don't allow this, then you at least need to change it to just givine a bonus to skills and not making them auto-succeses). Lastly, I think you should keep in mind that there are very few ways in D+D to lower the saves of other creatures or to make your own save DCs higher (which are effectively the same thing for you, but different for the target). Furthermore, people often say that such things are not balanced in the game (see Quill Blast in CD). I think this is a dangerous mechanic. Well that's my opinion, for what it's worth. ;)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 07:51 PM	Gabe, Hi there - thank you for your words - it's good to see you and your post was fun to read. :) okay, Enchantment doesn't have a specific combination of mechanical constraints, as follows i) Positive Energy + ii) Holy Power. It's that exact combination that defines Vegemite; In a nutshell, in one view, it's just the positive arm of necromancy - at the very least, a distinction, in D&D should recognises exactly when a spell utilises positive versus negative energy from the two Energy planes; About conforming to standard paremeters - um, I've seen posters lament that Spell Descriptions are too 'dry' - and then the other group, who want the 'crunch' only. It's just different perspectives! It's all good! :); The spells aren't finished - they do need work! :) Thanx for the input - I'll be sure to give it consideration, as I 'morph' the spells..... @all Updated URL Compendium....incoming @turalisj thanx t. When they're in better shape, or more finished, I'll hava think about what else to do with them. Might be fun to have them shared around at the other forums. stav
turalisj 11-04-05, 07:51 PM	With an auto succeed spell, I could convince a king to go streaking, then mkae a bluff check that he is a 12 year old hafling girl tah works on a farm.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 08:09 PM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith Compel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569800&postcount=242) 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199); Life Enhancement Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568774&postcount=225); Hallowed Humour (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7578004&postcount=305); Disrupt Undead Metabolism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587377&postcount=328); Ambidexterity (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588514&postcount=332); Force Corporeal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588600&postcount=334); Stardust Implant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606011&postcount=417); Stardust Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606020&postcount=418); Stardust Transformation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606034&postcount=419); Spark of the Hallowed Mind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7648263&postcount=467); Restore Fealty (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660247&postcount=503); Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7673478&postcount=537). 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212). 12. Background Posts for Essay on Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite Some Thoughts on Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570846&postcount=270); Stuff About Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570864&postcount=271); Powers of the Holy Over Non-Corporeal Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576644&postcount=286); To Get Us Think About 'What' Undead Sinew is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576705&postcount=288); Some Thoughts About 'Anti-Necromancy' (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7577763&postcount=297); Comment on Biomancy & Biomantic Magic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587406&postcount=329) 13. Comedy Posts Necrotic Bloat Creepy Things with THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597239&postcount=377); Shrill Scream - The Mouise is In the House (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7656041&postcount=486).
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 08:11 PM	With an auto succeed spell, I could convince a king to go streaking, then mkae a bluff check that he is a 12 year old hafling girl tah works on a farm. :rofl:
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 08:19 PM	@all this is a general invite. The new spells do need shaping and working on. Setting level, structuring the 'crunch', making them clear and unambiguous (unconfused). Please feel free to comment - and so on.....the idea is they are meant to encourage discussion. regards stav essay on Vegemite.....incoming Prelude Necromancy spells, under the currrent D&D framework obscure, blur, confuse, meld the source of their energy. At the very least, Necromancy Spells should look like this Necromancy-Positive Energy Necromancy-Negative Energy I also recommend that Necromancy, usually conjures us up images from folk-lore of dark magic, magic over the dead and that's why I think Necromancy is too 'big' a category. That is, it is over inclusive in what it subsumes, crunch wise. Discuss
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 08:31 PM	Second, while you're descriptions of the spells are very "artistic," I don't think they follow the proper model (take a look at the SRD to see what I mean). Spell descriptions should just lay out the mechanical effect they have in game, not have a whole long description of what color they are and what the effect looks like. Why? Well simply because if you write all that stuff in the spell, you LIMIT ARTISTIC freedom of players. What if I want my vegemite spell to look completely different than yours? Does your spell allow for that as written? I think you should leave out the flavor text since that kind of stuff is up to the person using a given spell/special ability/item/etc. To the bold - respectfully disagree, cause Positive Energy has a description in the Tomes. Its colour, appearance and energy is described. It's 'given' to us; Prismatic Spray, and the prismatic series, etc but, that said; So - Biomancy just uses that pre-existent power, description and structure. It comes from the DMG an PHB about the Positive Energy Plane. That said, I personally don't really care if people want to make the color or do anything they want with it! :) In fact, it's a very simple exercise to put something in like the exact morphology of the spell - it's colour, hue and shape, are expressions of the Caster. Things like alignment influence the 'aura' created. Accordingly, your players can make it look how they like. etc Lastly, I think you should keep in mind that there are very few ways in D+D to lower the saves of other creatures or to make your own save DCs higher (which are effectively the same thing for you, but different for the target). Furthermore, people often say that such things are not balanced in the game (see Quill Blast in CD). I think this is a dangerous mechanic. Well that's my opinion, for what it's worth. ;) True to the second half of the bold, and false to the first. This is a very important discussion point! It's a very interesting area. In a nutshell. An upwardly modified DC has exactly the same effect as a Downardly modified Save D&D has created a false distinction between the rules allowed to modify Save and the Spell DC. Allowing bi-directional mods of each either up or down is no threat to game-balance. Methods to modify saves are fairly common, in both directions. Discuss
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 08:40 PM	one last post, in this burst, before stepping back to see what's incoming...... In terms of 'artistic expression' Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite, follows the basic outline of spells like Holy Aura, and all that. Often, spells designated with the 'Holy' descriptor get given a specific colour in D&D. I chose super nova silver-blue for Positive Energy mixed with Holy Power The incandescent cobolt-silver aura shone with the power of Life and the Holy. It's brilliance Undead cannot withstand..... I guess you will be seeing by now, that it's the same colour as Silverstarfire magic (I have wondered about what I'm doing with that.....Divine Magic should be different, to Arcane versions of PEP-based spells). But, again, it's very easy to allow the exact morphology to vary in these kinds of spell-series, and it might make a very interesting mythology to allow that variation to exist..... regards stav
jagggar 11-04-05, 08:42 PM	I really thought I wasn't gunna post, honest. Honest, I didn't mean to. I'll second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth the need for the spells to be less confusing. As far as fluff&crunch in spell descriptions, I think fluff is okay, but should be easily distinguishable from the crunchier side of things. Something like: Name School Stat: Stat: Stat: Fluffy Flavor Crunch'n'Munch Kinda like the way the MM 3.5 has a description of every monster that's nice and easy to read in a pinch. Just because it says one thing doesn't mean you can't change it and have your version of the monster look different.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 08:48 PM	I really thought I wasn't gunna post, honest. Honest, I didn't mean to. I'll second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth the need for the spells to be less confusing. As far as fluff&crunch in spell descriptions, I think fluff is okay, but should be easily distinguishable from the crunchier side of things. Something like: Name School Stat: Stat: Stat: Fluffy Flavor Crunch'n'Munch Kinda like the way the MM 3.5 has a description of every monster that's nice and easy to read in a pinch. Just because it says one thing doesn't mean you can't change it and have your version of the monster look different. :rofl: hello jagggy, good to see ya! @all I promise - my last post while I step back to see what's incoming..... :) @jagggs yup - stats stuff - when I'm really serious about a final product, the crunch is always very 'tight' - but the stuff here's in R&D mode - it's still 'fuzzy'. I remember spells from AD&D that used to give a wee bit of history about who invented them and why. Stuff like the Mordenkainan series, and the Tenser's series. Famous wizards of the past. @ll Of course, the stats should be clearer at times!! I've been 'diffuse' and 'fuzzy' - partly on purpose, because I want/hope that fuzziness to encourage discussion about it enjoy! stav
gabrion 11-04-05, 09:20 PM	[list=1]Enchantment doesn't have a specific combination of mechanical constraints, as follows i) Positive Energy + ii) Holy Power. It's that exact combination that defines Vegemite; That's because mind affecting spells don't have their origins in positive energy. Positive energy bolsters living creatures and damages undead ones, it shouldn't reproduce any kind of compulsion or affect the mind. Things that do affect the mind shouldn't come from positive energy cause they can't affect undead. This is just a simple fact of the game, and one I'm not comfortable rewriting. In a nutshell, in one view, it's just the positive arm of necromancy - at the very least, a distinction, in D&D should recognises exactly when a spell utilises positive versus negative energy from the two Energy planes; They do make distictions (see disrupt undead). Even when it isn't specifically called out, we should be able to figure out for ourselves what is going on (see undeath to death). Just keep in mind that the definition of necromancy, like it or not, includes manipulation of both positive and negative energy. About conforming to standard paremeters - um, I've seen posters lament that Spell Descriptions are too 'dry' - and then the other group, who want the 'crunch' only. It's just different perspectives! It's all good! :); The problem with this line of thought is that a lot of D+D players like to follow the rules explicitly, so when it says a spell has X random visual effect along with it, this keeps them from having the spell work the way they want it to. By putting all the fluff in the spell you make it so only people who are willing to actively disagree with the spell wording are able to make it work the way they want. The simple answer to this, which accomodates both the creative and the not so creative, is to make spells the way they are in the SRD....without flavor text. To the bold - respectfully disagree, cause 1. Positive Energy has a description in the Tomes. Its colour, appearance and energy is described. It's 'given' to us; 2. Prismatic Spray, and the prismatic series, etc but, that said; 3. So - Biomancy just uses that pre-existent power, description and structure. It comes from the DMG an PHB about the Positive Energy Plane. That said, I personally don't really care if people want to make the color or do anything they want with it! 4. In fact, it's a very simple exercise to put something in like the exact morphology of the spell - it's colour, hue and shape, are expressions of the Caster. Things like alignment influence the 'aura' created. Accordingly, your players can make it look how they like. etc See above. Yes some spells have color descriptions and what not, but very few. It's one thing to make a spell like prismatic spray, which is dependent on the color theme (different colors have different and specific effect) and to just throw description in that does not need to be there. As I already said, you are limiting the game for people who don't want to change the rules. Ahhh...I have to run but will respond to the rest later.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 09:32 PM	@Gabe necessity is the mother of invention. Mind affecting spells vary, according to inspiration of a rules-writer. There is no precedent in D&D for how positive energy should influence the mind, when the energy, add holy, targets cognition. What we see implied, in the rules, but not stated (i.e. that which is implicit) - is that positive energy tends to go with good and negative with evil. Argument Using PEP+Holy to target cognition should define a specific sphere of influences over the mind. Those for the power of good. This is underscored by remembering that negative energy tends to go with evil undead. Likewise, Positive Energy tends to go with good. When this tendency is aligned with the Holy, there is little or no question about what this means for the target, so influenced. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 09:37 PM	Holy Aura "a brilliant divine radiance surrounds the caster" Holy Sword "this spell allows you to channel holy power into your sword" (exact descripton of "holy" is unclear, though Fireball "...is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar" (colour may vary, as outlined in PHB. You get to choose your colour) Flame Blade "A 3 foot long, blazing beam of red-hot fire springs from your hand" Prismatic Wall "...creates a vertical, opaque wall--a shimmering multicolored plane of light that...." Positive Energy - has a particular descrition - hang on, I'll repost it.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 09:42 PM	Summary Post Summary of Alignments for Undeads from Libris Mortis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7537977&postcount=119). They're mostly but not exclusively evil. 19 Always Chaotic Evil; 1 Usually Chaotic Evil; 10 Always Neutral Evil; 5 Usually Neutral Evil; 8 Always Lawful Evil; 4 Usually Neutral; 1 Always Evil (any); Important Information about the Positive Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538024&postcount=120); Cleric Good and Evil Domain Spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7538053&postcount=121); Important Information About the Negative Energy Plane (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7547405&postcount=153) Argument Whilst the Energy Planes are not, themselves aligned, Undead are infused with Negative Energy and are usually evil. Conversely, whilst the Postive Energy plane is not itself, inherently Good its energy destroys Undead (see Positoxins). Whilst not all Cleric Domain spells draw on Positive energy (for the Good Domain spells) or Negative energy (for the Evil Domain spells), Good clerics may not use spells with the Evil descriptor and vice-versa. Thus, a question remains about exactly what Holy and Unholy actually are. It would seem that need, greed, uncaring and intolerant of life characterise the Negative Energy Plane, even if "evil" does not. By contrast, it would seem that the heart of a star, furnace of creation, brilliance, birth of matter and energy, and vibrant characterise the Positive Energy Plane even if "good" does not. The exact relationship of the PEP and the NEP to good and evil remain unclear. Likewise, the distinction between "Holy" and Positive Energy on the one hand and "Unholy" and Negative Energy on the other remain unclear, as well. However, because Positive Energy is one of very few primary resources available to characters to destroy Undead, and further, whilst Positive Energy is not itself Good, it does primarily affect evil creatures. This is because most, but not all Undead are actually evil. Taken together, Positive Energy is a powerful tool against Evil, even if it can, technically be a power used to hurt or harm the living as well. Taken as a whole, there is insufficient justification to say Positive Energy is only Good but enough to say Positive Energy is a powerful tool for the cause of Good.
turalisj 11-04-05, 09:44 PM	5gil says sil will have another post up within 5 minutes. :D
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 09:45 PM	"The Positive Energy Plane is best compared to the heart of a star. It is a continual furnace of creation, a domain of brilliance beyond the ability of mortal eyes to comprehend. Its very being wavers and rippples as new matter and energy is born and swells to full power like a bursting fruit. It is a vibrant plane, so alive with itself that travelers themselves are empowered by visiting it." There are three colours for stars Red (coolest) Yellow (middling) Silvery-Blue (hottest) That's at least one way the colour and morphology of the spells can be altered, I suppose. Add in ideas about "Holy" colours or "alignment" colours.....
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-05, 09:45 PM	5gil says sil will have another post up within 5 minutes. :D :rofl: !!!!
turalisj 11-04-05, 10:00 PM	That was pretty much a sucker bet.
Blasphemous Revenant 11-04-05, 10:38 PM	For Positive and Negative Energy versus Holy and Unholy, Good and Evil, and alignments/all that other cosmological stuff: The Alignments: The alignments are fundamental truths of the multiverse, never varying between dimensions and being more solid than even the laws of physics (which differ from plane to plane). Each alignment is infinitely complex, being comprised of a number of qualities, energies, and persons which personify the alignment. Each person represents an alignment, and as he makes choices and takes actions, he "alters" the alignment itself, adding to it from his experiences. As long as he doesn't step outside the alignment's boundaries, a being might create a "whole new definition of Evil," for example. The deities are representations of the alignments, empowered by the energies thereof and possessing the qualities of the alignment (as well as any qualities they might create for the alignment). The deities themselves are also the moderators and regulators of the multiverse, supervising their alignments, as well as their other spheres of influence. "Holy" and "Unholy" refer to the tangible energies of the Good and Evil alignments. These energies are defined by the qualities of their respective alignments, and as well are as ever-changing as their alignments, taking on new qualities within the borders of their alignment. Positive and Negative Energy versus Holy and Unholy Energy Positive and Negative Energy are as basic as the elements of the multiverse, but rather than the substance thereof, they are the motion of creation and destruction, life and death. Positive and Negative Energy are what make the Multiverse "spin." Throughout the course of time, Good and Evil have developed reputations and qualities. Good is known to be more life-giving in nature, whereas Evil is more destructive. Whoever was the first to make this distinction is unknown, whether it was a Deity, spirit, or mortal. However, the distinction remains today, and Good is usually more receptive to Positive Energy, whereas Evil is more likely to use Negative Energy for its destructive needs. However, both Good and Evil are capable of the manipulation of Positive and Negative Energy, and in most cases, both are bolstered by Positive and harmed by Negative Energy. However, there are some exceptions. The relationships of Life, Unlife, Positive, and Negative Energy coming up.
Blasphemous Revenant 11-04-05, 10:54 PM	Positive and Negative Energy are not so much representations of Good and Evil, but rather Life and Death. Since general opinion tends toward Life being Good and Death being Evil, neither is entirely true. However, because of their tendencies, Good tends to be more life-giving in nature, whereas Evil tends to be more death-dealing. There are also other distinctions that make Positive and Negative Energy tends more toward Good and Evil. A corpse animated by negative energy is not inherently Evil. What is Evil is the means of animation, the source of the power to animate in such a way, and the general intent of animating a corpse. Undead were created by Evil beings, corrupting and distorting life by replacing the Positive soul with Negative energy. Because an undead creature's "spirit" is Negative, it is more receptive of Negative energy and hostile to Positive energy. Negative energy strengthens the undead's bond to its animating force, thereby "healing" it, as Positive energy normally strengthens a living creature's bond to its animating force (its soul/spirit) and healing it. Undead are not necessarily Evil, as Negative Energy is not necessarily Evil. However, nearly all Undead are Evil because force that animates them includes Unholy as well as Negative Energy, since it originates from an Unholy source. Conceptually, Negative Energy Undead that are created by Holy Energy could be Good rather than Evil. However, being as Good tends to focus more on Life than Death and Unlife, it is more likely to Resurrect a creature once more as a Positive creature than alter its force to a Negative one.
Blasphemous Revenant 11-04-05, 11:01 PM	An Undead being is a corpse (of a Positive (living) creature) whose animating force (its "soul" or "spirit") has been changed to a Negative force in place of its previous Positive force. Because an Undead creature is animated by Negative energy, it is extremely resistant to death/destruction by conventional means. This makes sense, since death and destruction come from Negative Energy, which is what keeps the creatured "alive." Positive Energy, on the other hand, affects an Undead creature as Negative Energy affects living creatures. Where Negative Energy severs a creature's bond between its body and its soul, its living energy and its matter, Positive Energy severs an Undead creature's bond to its Negative animating force. Undead are Evil because they were created by Evil, and part of their animating force contains Unholy Energy in addition to Negative. In theory, however, a corpse animated by Holy and Negative Energy would have all the properties of an Undead creature while being Good instead.
Tenzhi 11-04-05, 11:37 PM	The living creatures who are generally used for undead (i.e. people) are not Positive energy beings. Indeed, they exist in a balance of positive and negative energy (a living being is constantly growing, but is also constantly dying). Also, you make it sound like their soul is altered in the process of creating undead which is not necessarily true. Any undead creation process which does not require a living being, but only their corpse (for instance, the create undead spell) does not affect the soul in any way. Undead creation processes which do require a living being (most undead Spawn abilities, for example) may be said to fundamentally affect the soul of the creature.
Blasphemous Revenant 11-04-05, 11:58 PM	The living creatures who are generally used for undead (i.e. people) are not Positive energy beings. Indeed, they exist in a balance of positive and negative energy (a living being is constantly growing, but is also constantly dying). Also, you make it sound like their soul is altered in the process of creating undead which is not necessarily true. Any undead creation process which does not require a living being, but only their corpse (for instance, the create undead spell) does not affect the soul in any way. Undead creation processes which do require a living being (most undead Spawn abilities, for example) may be said to fundamentally affect the soul of the creature. You misinterpret me. According to my mythology, the lifeforce/soul/spirit of a living creature is positive in nature. Their bodies are matter, composed of the elements. Their spirit/soul, however, energizes their body, giving it life. Living creatures are constantly subject to both Positive and Negative Energy, in various forms. Disease, poison, and decomposition through age are manifestations of Negative Energy, whereas their very soul (and other life-giving sources) keep them alive by constantly feeding them Positive Energy. When an Undead is animated, its Positive soul is replaced by a source of Negative Energy, which acts as the soul by animating the remains. The original soul of the creature may remain unaffected (especially in the case of skeletons, zombies, and other mindless undead that are just animated corpses with no sentience), except possibly in the case of creatures that are "converted" to undead, such as Vampires, Wights, etc., as you mentioned. In such a case, the original Positive soul itself might be altered (or possibly even destroyed) in the process of becoming Undead.
Tenzhi 11-05-05, 12:46 AM	Unless things have greatly changed in the D&D mythos and no one told me, souls are neither positive nor negative energy and indeed have similarly adverse reactions to both the positive and negative energy planes.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-05-05, 12:50 AM	go guyz! It makes very interesting reading - one brief point.....on a slight tangent.... our brains are also "of the stuff of stars" - of Stardust. Ergo, Positive Energy may shape, influence and alter - the brain - it's physical architecture and therefore, it's cognition. This area goes into the body-mind-brain area - philosophy is rich with ideas about "mind-brain" stuff. One area from philosophy, is the discussion on dualism..... anyone care to pep (pun intended) up! :) stav
Blasphemous Revenant 11-05-05, 12:58 AM	Unless things have greatly changed in the D&D mythos and no one told me, souls are neither positive nor negative energy and indeed have similarly adverse reactions to both the positive and negative energy planes. It's just my deviant mythos. Imperfect, but an attempt to explain an apparently foggy area of the game.
Wilds 11-05-05, 01:01 AM	dualism is complicated and yet simple. I find it intreging
Silmarien Aldalome 11-05-05, 01:03 AM	dualism is complicated and yet simple. I find it intreging it is indeed, Wilds. Care to speak to the area for the readership? :) regards stav
Tenzhi 11-05-05, 01:18 AM	it is indeed, Wilds. Care to speak to the area for the readership? :) regards stav In a way, he already did.
Demonfey 11-05-05, 01:26 AM	Unless things have greatly changed in the D&D mythos and no one told me, souls are neither positive nor negative energy and indeed have similarly adverse reactions to both the positive and negative energy planes. Well currently, they seem to be made of incarnum. This seems to be neutral in charge...until you compare it to necrocarnum. Necrocarnum is the stuff that is used to drain others, doing things like negative energy and even raising undead beings, like necrocarnum zombies.
Tenzhi 11-05-05, 01:39 AM	Well currently, they seem to be made of incarnum. This seems to be neutral in charge...until you compare it to necrocarnum. Necrocarnum is the stuff that is used to drain others, doing things like negative energy and even raising undead beings, like necrocarnum zombies. And where'd that gibberish come from? What differentiates this "necrocarnum" from negative energy?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-05-05, 01:44 AM	Tenzhi *giggles* @Demonfey Sounds interesting - it would be interesting to see if there's a __something__carnum for Positive Energy.... stav
Demonfey 11-05-05, 01:51 AM	There already is. Armguards of disruption. They hurt undead, and are soulborn/incarnate.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-05-05, 02:07 AM	There already is. Armguards of disruption. They hurt undead, and are soulborn/incarnate. ta muchly df... @all two things.....incoming.... modifications to some spells - organising the fluff and crunch more clearly and essay on Vegemite regards stav Vanishes in flash of Silver and Blue You have everything you need within you to transcend suffering Holy Goddess, Hallowed Prayer You are never alone love is all around you All of life is connected Your life is a Holy Journey There is Beauty all around you To Guide you on your Journey Home There is no need to fear Everything's going to be all right Sacred Light of Hallowed Vessel The glimpses of the Divine Like shots of incandescent light They flash in the mind's eye A doorway to The Infinite A second chance A Gift of Compassion Like the stillness of the Summer Night Like the Grace of the Hallowed Stars You are on your Journey Home
Demonfey 11-05-05, 02:16 AM	...and you still haven't answered the Keep's messenger.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-05-05, 03:13 PM	"You people are hopeless... you go on and on and on about ways to defeat your enemies, but do NOTHING to actually accomplish the goal. You just sit back and discuss how you can kill them this way with this magic, or do it that way with that magic. All the while people who could actually use the help in fighting the creatures are left waiting for you to get off your butts and DO SOMETHING. I will inform the Lord Arcanus that you were too busy discussing the pointless to speak about his offer." The knight turns and walks out the door, shaking his head and mumbling to himself.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-05-05, 06:28 PM	OoG: none of the product-build/options-discussions have happened IG, Orcster. Little Game Time has transpired While in the middle of prayers, the hooded one incants. In a flash of silver and blue, he is standing before the spurned and abandoned creature. He holds up a warding hand, gesturing you to stop. You catch the glimpse of the facial features: angular bone structure. Silimna says "Arcanus - and our feality has been reassured. None here have opposed the treaty." There are murmurs of acquiescence as you look around the room and see nods. Some of the people whisper to each other when you look at them. Quietly exchanging thoughts. "If Arcanus seeks help, then he'd best spell out the kind of help he seeks and name the trouble." The Hooded One reaches gestures over the the wall, where you see a giant silver mirror and then incants. A voice, almost too quiet to hear says "Let us see what transpires at Ghasmal Keep and in Arcanus's world then The mirror's central glass swirls with magical fires, as silver and blue flashes reflect off your face. Suddenly, an image of Arcanus appears before you.... OoC: Orcy - you've got to describe the situation, okay, at Arcanus's..... take the baton I've just handed you and describe what Silimna and the others see.
gabrion 11-05-05, 09:47 PM	Ok, to try and finish my post from before I will address the following points. An upwardly modified DC has exactly the same effect as a Downardly modified Save D&D has created a false distinction between the rules allowed to modify Save and the Spell DC. Allowing bi-directional mods of each either up or down is no threat to game-balance. This isn't even a matter of opinion, it is just factually wrong. Downwardly modifying a save is much more effective because it is a personal effect for the target. If I drop someone's saves by 5, that lower save makes all my friends' affects more powerful, while raising the DC of an effect I have is only better for me. Lowering saves is simply more powerful than raising DCs (if the lowering is universal). Methods to modify saves are fairly common, in both directions. I would appreciate if you named all the ways you know of to downwardly modify saves. I can think of very few. There is no precedent in D&D for how positive energy should influence the mind, when the energy, add holy, targets cognition. Yes there is. Positive energy doesn't usually affect the mind. ;) The Positive Energy Plane is best compared to the heart of a star. It is a continual furnace of creation, a domain of brilliance beyond the ability of mortal eyes to comprehend. Well just out of curiousity, how do you understand it well enough to make a new school of magic from the stuff? "You people are hopeless... you go on and on and on about ways to defeat your enemies, but do NOTHING to actually accomplish the goal. You just sit back and discuss how you can kill them this way with this magic, or do it that way with that magic. All the while people who could actually use the help in fighting the creatures are left waiting for you to get off your butts and DO SOMETHING. I will inform the Lord Arcanus that you were too busy discussing the pointless to speak about his offer." As Sil said, all of our discussion is OOG, so I have no idea how the messenger could have the knowledge to speak IG on it. I understand if he is frustrated at not being able to see the leader right away (and see my last IG post btw), but you still shouldn't meta-game like that. Disclaimer: As always, even if my post sounds mean, it's not meant to be so (rather I've simply tried to put things in a very frank manner).
Demonfey 11-05-05, 11:09 PM	OoG: none of the product-build/options-discussions have happened IG, Orcster. Little Game Time has transpired While in the middle of prayers, the hooded one incants. In a flash of silver and blue, he is standing before the spurned and abandoned creature. He holds up a warding hand, gesturing you to stop. You catch the glimpse of the facial features: angular bone structure. Silimna says "Arcanus - and our feality has been reassured. None here have opposed the treaty." There are murmurs of acquiescence as you look around the room and see nods. Some of the people whisper to each other when you look at them. Quietly exchanging thoughts. "If Arcanus seeks help, then he'd best spell out the kind of help he seeks and name the trouble." The Hooded One reaches gestures over the the wall, where you see a giant silver mirror and then incants. A voice, almost too quiet to hear says "Let us see what transpires at Ghasmal Keep and in Arcanus's world then The mirror's central glass swirls with magical fires, as silver and blue flashes reflect off your face. Suddenly, an image of Arcanus appears before you.... OoC: Orcy - you've got to describe the situation, okay, at Arcanus's..... take the baton I've just handed you and describe what Silimna and the others see. In game time, that would have been at least two months (lost track of how long he was waiting.)
Tenzhi 11-06-05, 04:38 AM	You never answered my question, Demonfey. Where'd that -carnum junk come from? The recently released Heroes of Horror?
gabrion 11-06-05, 04:41 AM	You never answered my question, Demonfey. Where'd that -carnum junk come from? The recently released Heroes of Horror? Or maybe Magic of Incarnum?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-05, 06:34 AM	On Spell DCs and Saves When you cast a spell, to have success, the DC of the spell represents, the 'how hard' it is to resist a spell. When you resist a spell, your save mods go into your d20 roll. So what? Everyone knows that, right. A fifth level spell, cast, for argument's sake, by a character with an 18 on the relevant attribute - striking a target, who, for argument sake has an 18 on the relevant defensive stat, for arguments sake, with a base of +5 on their save. What do you get? 10+5+4=19 for the DC 5+4=+9 on the save Chuck 'em together, what's the nett effect: A 50-50 chance of success, on a d20 roll (19-9+d20) or (d20 versus a 10, in nett terms). As the target of the spell, I can fortify myself by a defence that leads to negatives on the caster's DC (e.g. hitting their primary ability score, downwarldy) or equally (upping my relevant ability upwards). As the caster, I can fortify my DC or downwardly strike the recipient by taking away some of their defences (e.g. downing their Wisdom). A -2 to the caster's DC is the same as a +2 on the target's save A +2 to the caster's DC is the same as a -2 on the target's save That is, I can target any component of the linear equation that goes into the nett of the Save Mod/DC Mod system. The Linear Equation that describes this is the d20 Success Threshold=[(10+Nett Ability Score Mod+Spell Level of the caster) - (Base Save Bonus + Nett Ability Mod of the Target)] Or y=a - b where; y=the d20 Success Threshold (the number you must get for success of a save) a=(10+Nett Ability Score Mod+Spell Level of the caster) b=(Base Save Bonus + Nett Ability Mod of the Target) You can modify a up or down You can modify b up or down If you are making a save, you can downwardly modify a and upwardly modify b or some combination of both If you are casting the spell, you can upwardly modify a and downwardly modify b or some combination of both. It doesn't matter how you do it, it's all the same. There is no nett effect of game balancing principles, whichever way you go
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-05, 07:03 AM	so, the focus on 'where' you target the DC-Save system, overall, is immaterial. So, How can I 'Hit' A Save, either up or down? Hit the ability score with a spell, spell-like effect, or supernatural power, or equivalently, that effect from a magic item; e.g. Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace, Periapt of Wisdom (for the Save); e.g. Headband of the Intellect, Cloak of Charisma, Eagle's Splendour (spell), Periapt of Wisdom, Owl's Wisdom, (A hit to Wisdom gives you benefits to the DC or the save); e.g. positive effects of Saves: Specific Spells, like Protection From Evil, Holy Aura (or its opposite), Bless, Remove Fear, Aid, Death Ward, Heroism, Rage, Heroism Greater, Tenser's Transformation; e.g. negative effects of Saves: Doom, Desecrate, Bestow Curse, Touch of Idiocy, Vampiric Touch, Enervation; e.g. Feeblemind (for Downwardly Hitting DC's) Analysis Methods of modifying the DC, directly (not through an ability score mod) in terms of feats or spells are extremely sparse. Typically, a fortification to a DC, by a Feat, adds far less, incrementally, to a DC than could an easy spell that upped your Ability score. There is no justification for the sparseness, given what's around to modify the DC, indirectly, anyway. Feats that modify DCs are overbalanced: what you get when you buy a feat cheats you, because of what more you can do with saves, Feat wise. D&D has an internal inconsistency in how it thinks about DCs and Saves.
gabrion 11-06-05, 11:16 AM	A -2 to the caster's DC is the same as a +2 on the target's save A +2 to the caster's DC is the same as a -2 on the target's save ... It doesn't matter how you do it, it's all the same. There is no nett effect of game balancing principles, whichever way you go With all due respect, I think you missed my point above. I fully agree that 2=2, but there is still a big difference between lowering saves and raising them based on how the effect can be utilized. If I raise the DC of a spell I'm casting by 3 (through whatever means), that impacts my individual ability to affect my enemies. On the other hand, if I lower the save bonus of my enemy, that impacts all of their saves, against me and my friends. Since D+D is often about teamwork and people often fight together, it is much more useful to make my enemy weaker (since all of his enemies, or my friends, gain the benefit) than it is to just make me a bit stronger (which doesn't change the ability of my friends in relation to our enemy). Basically I have no disagreement with the way you're crunching the numbers, but you're forgetting an important part of the game...namely teamwork. Shame on you Sil, I wouldn't expect you of all people to overlook teamwork. ;)
Blasphemous Revenant 11-06-05, 12:11 PM	Saving Throws aren't just to resist spells. They are also used to resist poison, disease, and many other effects. So, raising the DCs of all spells for all spellcasters (maybe by including Caster Level in there somewhere) would affect the spellcasting element of the game, while leaving all the other saving throw-related effects unaffected. If all saving throws are lowered, it will affect poison, disease, supernatural abilities, and many other things, not just spellcasting. If you think all saving throws are too easy to make, than lower the save bonuses. If it's just spellcasting, raise the spellcasting DCs.
Demonfey 11-06-05, 02:09 PM	You never answered my question, Demonfey. Where'd that -carnum junk come from? The recently released Heroes of Horror? Magic of Incarnum
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-05, 04:52 PM	With all due respect, I think you missed my point above. I fully agree that 2=2, but there is still a big difference between lowering saves and raising them based on how the effect can be utilized. If I raise the DC of a spell I'm casting by 3 (through whatever means), that impacts my individual ability to affect my enemies. On the other hand, if I lower the save bonus of my enemy, that impacts all of their saves, against me and my friends. Since D+D is often about teamwork and people often fight together, it is much more useful to make my enemy weaker (since all of his enemies, or my friends, gain the benefit) than it is to just make me a bit stronger (which doesn't change the ability of my friends in relation to our enemy). Basically I have no disagreement with the way you're crunching the numbers, but you're forgetting an important part of the game...namely teamwork. Shame on you Sil, I wouldn't expect you of all people to overlook teamwork. ;) Gabe, Hi there, thanx for the reply, it's an interesting area. I think we're nearly there with this.... :) I had a very long discussion about this a coupla times, already, at a coupla places. I also had a looky-see at FR boards with RBaker and the discussion was raised. The 'teamwork' argument also, was reviewed, but with a slightly different emphasis, but basically, the same thing came out of the discussion..... When I modify your save, I'm modifying your entire D&D universe of saves. Equally, I could target someone or something else, meaning that the whole D&D Universe of Saves can be affected. Whether I put a Protection From Evil on me or you - all the Evil Universe is affected, downwardly. And that's a specific special spell with specific targets (the Evil Universe). Again, and equally, the nett effect is the same. My team-mates chances of survival are improved if - the spellcaster - modifies a DC. Also, there's another half to my argument. Just like I can modify yours or my saves, I should be able to modify yours or my DC up or down, direction depending on whether you are a friend or an enemy. The Nett Effect is the same - whether I modify yours or my Save, yours or my DC. The question you and others who are skeptical should be asking is does the modification to the DC or Save take an Action or no? because one action is a lot of power in D&D.... regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-05, 04:56 PM	Saving Throws aren't just to resist spells. They are also used to resist poison, disease, and many other effects. So, raising the DCs of all spells for all spellcasters (maybe by including Caster Level in there somewhere) would affect the spellcasting element of the game, while leaving all the other saving throw-related effects unaffected. If all saving throws are lowered, it will affect poison, disease, supernatural abilities, and many other things, not just spellcasting. If you think all saving throws are too easy to make, than lower the save bonuses. If it's just spellcasting, raise the spellcasting DCs. This is a very interesting point, Blasphmous_Falconheart. Saves are broader than DCs. That's an argument to be easier on DC mods than Saves....we have the reverse at this time in D&D. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-05, 05:58 PM	Open Channel to the Divine Vivomancy/Vibrant/Vegemite Level: Cleric 6 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: ? Range: Unlimited Effect: ? Target: All creatures bound by the One Memory or Damaging Event, limited to 5 per caster level Duration: ? Saving Throw: Will Negates - or Will (Harmless) - it's unclear Spell Resistance: Yes After a serious physical, mental or biological insult or threat to our faith or trust, the Diviner may summon forth the living matter of Stars in order to grant three sets of benefits to players. Powerful positive energy is gathered, and like all spells in the Biomancy/Vegemite sphere of Divine magic, she fortifies that powerful energy with the Holy, Hallowed power of Divinity. The target is asked to think, speak and chant, so giving a name to their malaise. It is essential that the target get it out there. As the suffering soul is doing this, the Diviner hurls the powerful magic at the target, and the incandescent, cobolt-silver power infuses the target's entire being. Like all Biomancy, the spell's visual effects are spectacular to onlookers. What is seen is like looking at a person suddenly burning like a miniature star. To the target, the inner experience is Transcendent. Suddenly, Hallowed Voice is right before them, because the person sees an echo of the creator in the Hallowed Living Starfires. The experience is humbling, because of the sudden seeing of such beauty, beyond the ken of mortal word. First, the spell targets several Skill Checks. Whilst in this state, the target is unable to be deceived, thus, all bluff, intimidate and diplomacy checks are an automatic success for the spell's target. The target also automatically recognises other's lies they tell themselves and understands the forces that motivate them, thus, all Sense Motive checks are automatic success; The second effect is that the will is fortified as well and all Will Saves are made at +2, +1 for every 2 levels of the Cleric; The third effect is the fortification of some of the caster's spell DCs by (+2, +1 per 2 levels). By seeing through their own lies (through exposure to the Divine), the Cleric gains exquisite insight about the lies of others and about the underlying basis of Evil behaviour. The assumption is that Evil creatures are not at peace and the Cleric knows how to use that to create self-doubt in an Evil creature. The Cleric penetrates the mental defences or the target, such as defences against rejection, pain, fear, shame and hurt. The Cleric transcends all of it, in a beautific moment of connection to all of life and all the living. In this state of pure clarity, the Cleric knows how to fortify any spell that influences another in a positive way. Thus, a suggestion spell, cast with the intention of encouraging the target to find inner peace, forgiveness or to abandon an evil pursuit (e.g. don't hurt the Elven King for he loves his people. You will damage yourself if you hurt the King, will be fortified (add +2 +1 for every 2 levels of the Cleric to the DC). Importantly, any suggestion that may hurt or damage the target is downwardly modified by the same amount. The Cleric will terminate their own spell automatically if they try to damage anyone. At the ending of the spell, the Cleric's faith in goodness is re-affirmed. Analysis Getting D&D players to think less concretely is quite difficult. Mind-affecting spells and mechanical process that operate in the realm of the Psyche, is generally a very poorly developed area in D&D. Psionics has developed this area reasonably well, but that area, like many others, has only just scratched the surface of the way magic can be adapted to the non-concrete D&D universe. Biomancy Essay will much more carefully address this area, but briefly, Positive Energy may operate on Living processes at the biological, mental or metaphysical levels of analysis, in particular ways. Split Off This spell has the general effect of helping good communities remain happy, healthy and cohesive. Sometimes, a being is exposed to very damaging forces that challenge their faith in people, others, or the world. At such times, a person may arrive at a crisis in faith. The Drow of Eilistraee live in a very dark world. They frequently lose people they love to hostile, unforgiving forces. The injuries may be all the more profound because they may come from their own folk. In order to protect themselves, the Drow Clerics of Eilistraee, in an act of forsight, recognised that there was a way to fortify cognition - to bolster the mind, on the one hand by opening a channel to the Divine on the other, with an act of Will, clarity and Hallowed [i]self-truth telling, on the other. enjoy stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-05, 06:00 PM	It's still not standard spell structure. I know this. It's a simple matter to modify it, but the three core mechanical features are more clearly itemised. stav
Tenzhi 11-06-05, 07:28 PM	Or maybe Magic of Incarnum? Had I heard of the product, that's probably what would've come to mind first. Hrm, I'll have to give it a flip through some time, but it doesn't look like something I'd pick up judging by the product summary. Honestly, this game has enough magic troubles already without adding more monkeyfied mechanics to it. ;) Pretty cover, though.
Demonfey 11-06-05, 07:32 PM	And great powers, too. My personal favorites are the blink shirt (allows dimension door 10 ft increments, +10 for every point of essentia put in) and the airstep sandals (fly 10 ft/round, +10 every point put in, must be on ground at landing or fall).
gabrion 11-06-05, 08:07 PM	Gabe, Hi there, thanx for the reply, it's an interesting area. I think we're nearly there with this.... :) I had a very long discussion about this a coupla times, already, at a coupla places. I also had a looky-see at FR boards with RBaker and the discussion was raised. The 'teamwork' argument also, was reviewed, but with a slightly different emphasis, but basically, the same thing came out of the discussion..... When I modify your save, I'm modifying your entire D&D universe of saves. Equally, I could target someone or something else, meaning that the whole D&D Universe of Saves can be affected. Whether I put a Protection From Evil on me or you - all the Evil Universe is affected, downwardly. And that's a specific special spell with specific targets (the Evil Universe). Again, and equally, the nett effect is the same. My team-mates chances of survival are improved if - the spellcaster - modifies a DC. Also, there's another half to my argument. Just like I can modify yours or my saves, I should be able to modify yours or my DC up or down, direction depending on whether you are a friend or an enemy. The Nett Effect is the same - whether I modify yours or my Save, yours or my DC. The question you and others who are skeptical should be asking is does the modification to the DC or Save take an Action or no? because one action is a lot of power in D&D.... regards stav Well I've also debated this issue many times and I've seen it in action more than a few. Suffice to say I still respectfully disagree with your analysis. I agree that an ability affecting me changes my universe and an ability affecting my enemy changes their universe. However, it is incorrect to assume that changing my D+D universe has the same effect on my party members as changing my enemies universe. The abilities of my enemy are usually much more directly related to my allies than my own abilities. I know this can be difficult to understand, so let me use an example. Let's look at the standard D+D group...4 clerics. ;) Now these guys have a particularly fun time running around casting slay living on people. They decide they are tired of the same company, so they decide to hire a new party member to travel with them. At the local tavern they run into Joe the wizard and Jenny the druid. Joe happens to have 3 levels of fatespinner (from CA) and knowing the clerics' penchant for death spells he uses the following sales pitch to convince them that he is the best choice..."I heard you guys are into death magic. Sweet! I love death magic too! I cast Finger of Death all the time, but I'm able to raise the DC of that spell by 3 (spinning fate of course). Wouldn't it be great to have another friend with you who can cast death spells, but even more effective ones?" Jenny, not to be outdone, steps forward to explain why she would be better. "Ya, death magic is fun an all, but don't you hate how those particular meaty foes often shake off the effects? I can cast a spell (Quill Blast) that will pretty much always lower the saves of your enemies by at least 3 (actually more, but we'll call it three for reasons of comparing with Joe). That means all of your death spells will be more likely to succeed with me around!" So who should the clerics pick Sil? From your claim above, they are even. Is that really your opinion? Hint: The right answer is Jenny. ;)
Demonfey 11-06-05, 08:34 PM	You all might want to check out the GoUE, right now. Thasis has had to leave this board, and his farewells are there. Here's a link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7687902&postcount=221)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-05, 10:05 PM	You all might want to check out the GoUE, right now. Thasis has had to leave this board, and his farewells are there. Here's a link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7687902&postcount=221) thanx demonfey - looks like he really is going. @Gabe think about it. A more powerful caster can protect his friends just as well as if the target the party is fighting is weaker. Equally, empowering the party, by upping their saves, bolsters survival chances. The only way around the argument I've tabled, is to do what Blasphemous_Swan has suggested, which is to start talking areas broader than the save-DC system, in isolation. @all looks like I'm your GoPG new Custodian :) + :bow: Hallowed Goddess thasis leaves us to go on his Journey elsewhere Guide his footsteps that he may be safe and strong on his way Make his life an amazing wonder Let all he chooses bring him hope and reward Ward his path Protect him from harm We renew our Faith with his departure That the Homecoming will Be One day in the Future Who knows where, who knows when But our paths part, thasis, for now May the goddess speed you on your way
turalisj 11-06-05, 10:19 PM	looks like I'm your GoPG new Custodian :) + :bow: god help us all..... we're :censored: doomed....
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-05, 10:33 PM	if you mean the evil guyz are doomed, the answer is *smiles* YES (hopefully) @turalisj I'll live. @all This is a bridge-building time. I'm counting on those of you who are strong in your generosity to keep doing your thang. regards stav
Wilds 11-06-05, 10:46 PM	god help us all..... we're :censored: doomed.... where did u ever get that strange notion?
Demonfey 11-06-05, 11:30 PM	god help us all..... we're :censored: doomed.... What're you talking about? I'm EE (efficient evil). Few things can take on EE. ;)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-07-05, 03:44 AM	Essay on Positive Energy Fortified with the Holy 1) Introduction Positive Energy is the power of life. It is creation, living, vibrant power that is the wellspring of conception and birth. It is a force with infinite potential whose form manifests itself in all manner of bird, beast, plant, insect and fungus in the universe. Equally, it is the firmament upon which the inanimate springs forth - earth, stone, mountains, water. It is the energy of all of life. The Holy power of a Deity can infuse Positive Energy, fortifying it. Hallowed force is the aura of good gods. Holy power is the signature of a Deity's being. To quote Blasphemous_Albatros "Holy" and "Unholy" refer to the tangible energies of the Good and Evil alignments. These energies are defined by the qualities of their respective alignments, and as well are as ever-changing as their alignments, taking on new qualities within the borders of their alignment. This was couched in a view where the organisation of the Deity's thinking, body and being is a wellspring of Holy (or Unholy as it were). Their Divine Aura being the product, in one sense of the lifeforce and energy of the Deity. While a Deity does not have a metabolism in the ordinary sense, their being is, in one sense, energy in an organised, shaped and manifest form. The expected effects from the combination of the Hallowed and Positive Energy is something not very well developed in D&D. Despite this fuzzy area of non-definition, one can make some spefic predictions (hypotheses, if you like) about exactly what effects are expected and how those effects should manifest themselves. This essay looks at the intersection defined by i) Holy Power and Positive Energy and then cross-multiplies those findings against ii) the physical, mental and metaphysical domains. Thus, defined by this work is the following domains: First - Holy Power and Positive Energy - defining some Descriptors and Parameters. Holy Power and Positive Energy and its effects over the body's biology; Holy Power and Positive Energy and its effects over the mind; Holy Power and Positive Energy and its effects over the metaphysical 2) Holy Power and Positive Energy Mechanically speaking, the Good descriptor describes anything Holy. But, what about something that is Good and that is fortified with Positive Energy? What should this be called? By analogy from Complete Divine, the Metamagic Feat Consecrate Spell allows you to fortify any energy type (fire, cold, electricity) with the Good descriptor, allowing half your energy to by-pass energy resistance. When it comes to Positive Energy, though, our Tomes are unclear about exactly what you can do with the power, let alone what will happen when you foritify Positive Energy with the Divine Holy power of the gods. Thus, below is a series of predictions that develop ideas, and that utilise the following assumptions; That Positive Energy is antithetical to anything that utilises Negative Energy; That Positive Energy only harms living creatures, when its "concentration" equals or exceeds that of things with the (Major) Positive Dominant descriptor, but *not* when Positive Energy is only "concentrated" to the degree of things with the (Minor) Positive Dominant descriptor (see description of Asgard for more); Positive Energy is a power source and may fortify any spell that is life-affirming (e.g. Healing spells, see Asgard); The biology of beings is dependent on an uninterrupted supply of positive energy is available for that biology; That Positive Energy is the energy that is in every living cell, organ and aspect of the body; That Positive Energy may be moulded to modify, transform, or influence any aspect of a living being; When Positive Energy is fortified with Holy power, it becomes harmful to anything with the Evil descriptor. 2.1) Holy Power and Positive Energy - Effects over the Body's Biology Holy Positive Energy may be used to: accelerate or slow down metabolism; modify any aspect or function of biology, metabolism, or catabolism. This includes, for example, digestion, hormone function, neurobiology and organ function; modify any aspect or funciton of biology, metabolism or catabolism, in such a way so as to procure special defences against evil, and negative energy. 2.2) Holy Power and Positive Energy - Effects over the Mind Holy Positive Energy may be used to: modify any structural feature of the brain, including the structural features that go into memory, thinking, feeling, sensation and perception (e.g. modifying vision); fortify living mental architecture against the influences of negative energy; fortify living mental architecture against the influences of evil; alter the organisation of Self, by modifying structural and functional features of mind. 2.3) Holy Power and Positive Energy - Effects over the Metaphysical Holy Positive Energy may be used to: Enhance the connection to the metaphysical universe (the spirit world, divinity, the planes of existence); I can't think of anything else :) Please discuss, if you like.... regards stav
turalisj 11-07-05, 06:56 AM	What're you talking about? I'm EE (efficient evil). Few things can take on EE. ;) I meant the GoPG. Every action for combat will take atleast a week, so any real fighting will take a few months..... :weep:
Wilds 11-07-05, 09:50 AM	I meant the GoPG. Every action for combat will take atleast a week, so any real fighting will take a few months..... :weep: thats only if we let it take a week, give them a day at most to respond or they fortiet their turn
Blasphemous Revenant 11-07-05, 01:45 PM	Positive Energy heals Evil creatures, unless they are undead. Even demons and devils are healed by Positive Energy and harmed by negative energy. So, I would think infusing Holy Energy with Positive Energy would result in healing Good creatures. But the Holy and Positive Energies would cancel each other out when affecting Evil creatures, probably having no effect at all.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-07-05, 04:50 PM	Seeking Data from Members Hi there everyone, i thought i'd open up the discussion about 'where to from here' and 'how to proceed'. um, just thinking out loud, i see us in a 'refactory' (review and reflect) phase. i don't see it lasting long. but please post your thoughts - about it. before we can actually do the hack and slash, we need to get ourselves ready. if people are energetic, and start posting ideas about the Guild's structure and all that: ideas for the Opening Post (remembering, we're nearly at 1000 posts already, so we're going to be cutting a new Guild soon enough). Or if you have another idea, post it. how do you feel about using the next 200 posts or so to prepare for the next Thread - which, will be the thread that actually goes to war. Or, another idea - two threads - one is for GoPG Research & Dev, and the other for the actual IFG? please post your thoughts..... next post, to B_R stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-07-05, 04:55 PM	Positive Energy heals Evil creatures, unless they are undead. Even demons and devils are healed by Positive Energy and harmed by negative energy. So, I would think infusing Holy Energy with Positive Energy would result in healing Good creatures. But the Holy and Positive Energies would cancel each other out when affecting Evil creatures, probably having no effect at all. This is a very good point. At the least, only Heal Good. There are powers that specifically burn/hurt evil things, other than undead? Tomes, swords, powers, that, upon making contact with an ill-aligned being, go 'ouch' or similar effects. Protection from Evil kinds of things and all that. Perhaps the combination of powers (Positive Energy + Good) can be shaped in several ways.....I've got some ideas, but I'll wait to see if anything's incoming. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-07-05, 04:58 PM	I meant the GoPG. Every action for combat will take atleast a week, so any real fighting will take a few months..... :weep: hi t., no worries! We'll have to work out how to make things move faster. Forfeiting turns is not such a bad idea, methinks, if people don't post on their round (I think Wilds suggested it). regards stav
Ravenscroft 11-07-05, 06:08 PM	Positive Energy heals Evil creatures, unless they are undead. Even demons and devils are healed by Positive Energy and harmed by negative energy. So, I would think infusing Holy Energy with Positive Energy would result in healing Good creatures. But the Holy and Positive Energies would cancel each other out when affecting Evil creatures, probably having no effect at all. Sorry , but i dont get why Positive and Holy should cancel. Spells like Flamestrike dont cancel out on Evil creatures which have Fire immunity/resistance (Red Dragon say). You would likely get a half effect , but there would still be some effect.
Demonfey 11-07-05, 06:13 PM	His point is evil living creatures. Holy damage would hurt them, while positive energy would heal them at the same time, and since it would be half positive and half holy, you would be hurt and healed equally, maybe one point going either way. It's only practical use would be against undead.
gabrion 11-07-05, 06:24 PM	Glad to see we are moving forward with the GoPG! My opinions (the short versions at least) are as follows... 1) At this point we should primarily dedicate ourselves to getting the GoPG established as a real in game force (ie we need numbers, guild layout, defenses, etc.). I'm personally looking at some things for this and I will either post the stuff here or PM it to anyone who wants to see. 1.5) When we create the structural stuff for the guild we need to make sure we also hash out the details of the OP, like the guild charter and what not (as Sil pointed out). 2) Leadership has always been a topic of discussion across all the guilds I've seen/been a part of, and I think we should have that discussion here as well. Right now Sil is the de facto leader, and I think that should stay that way, but we should also decide if we want other positions to help break up some of the leadership burden (since being in charge of every aspect of a guild is undoubtedly tough). One example of a temporary leadership position in the guild may be the architect, who is in charge of sumbitting floorplans for approval. Once the guild is established, we may want to have one particular person in charge of running out defenses. These are just examples, but I think you get the picture. 2.5) It would also be useful to establish the list of active members. Obviously the default will be to have all the old members carry over to the new, but the number of people we need to help run stuff will no doubt be related to the size of the active postership. 3) On Sil's idea of having two threads, I would generally prefer not to go that route. I do think we should be clear when we are making IC/OOC remarks, but for purposes of me not having to bother myself with another thread, I'd rather keep in all in one. :) Well that's it for now, but as I come up with ideas for the GoPG, I'll be sure to either post them here or PM them to those who are interested.
Demonfey 11-07-05, 06:30 PM	You may want to think about making a good version of the skygge. I've already summoned a new representative, given him my commands, and sent him back.
Ravenscroft 11-07-05, 06:38 PM	His point is evil living creatures. Holy damage would hurt them, while positive energy would heal them at the same time, and since it would be half positive and half holy, you would be hurt and healed equally, maybe one point going either way. It's only practical use would be against undead. Ok , that will teach me to post when only half awake. You can add the Holy desrcriptor to Healing sub-school. The energies dont cancel , but the effect might. Unless you are using Heal , healing spells dont channel as much energy as damage spells. If the energies are equal in value , i would think a saving throw is still required to determine outcome. You throw a spell with Holy/Positive energies at an evil , living creature. It is likely to resist any offensive spell thrown. If it resists the Positive part , it takes Holy damage (save for half). If it resists the Holy part , and it is damaged , it heals (save for no effect).
Demonfey 11-07-05, 06:43 PM	Still not that useful against living opponents, though. You agree on that part, right?
jagggar 11-07-05, 06:54 PM	Please, no. Not a good version. That's practically what all the [Good] or [Evil] spells are. An appropriate enemy for the Skygge, not a good version. I think I'd vote for the dual topic verson. Especially since Stav's in charge now :P , it might help the topic grow less-fast. That way all the needed RP stuff can be done there (along with planning of the layout and such) and the really open-ended stuff such as the spells and the talk of the interaction of good/undead/DCsvsSaves could be in the non-ifwg thread. (If we're going to do any voting, count me as no more than half a member.)
Demonfey 11-07-05, 08:43 PM	I just thought it would be funny to see.
Ravenscroft 11-07-05, 10:42 PM	Still not that useful against living opponents, though. You agree on that part, right? Never disagreed on that point. It was just the energies cancelling each other that wasnt clear to me.
Demonfey 11-07-05, 10:43 PM	Fair enough.
Von Crown 11-07-05, 11:30 PM	I hit a big breakthrough in my attempt to remove the alignment today. Once I get it balance tested, I'm going to put it on the boards. A general synopsis is up on the Guild of Ultimate Evil.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-05, 04:25 AM	@Ravenscroft You raised some very interesting points. The 'balance of power' in a fusion of Holy and Positive Energy, being an important point that comes out from your comments. Your point about the effect being something distinct to whether or not energy cancels itself out is very spot on. If you look downstream at my next burst of posts, you will see what I have done with your thinking. I also really liked your ideas about mechanics - the saving throw concept. I assume you have Complete Divine, from those comments. They talk about "half the damage being sheer divine damage" or something like that with the Consecrate Feat. I don't know about the others, or yourself, but I think there's room for different "blends" of Holy+Positive - more or less of one or the other, and sometimes 50:50.... Thank you for the prompts. :) A Drow woman, whose hair and eyes are darker than a Drow's wont and whose skin a shade lighter is smiling at you. Her green eyes sparkle as she prayers. Looking up at you, she senses your scrying. Greetings Kinsman and well met. Hallowed be thine Footsteps and as hale as the spring rains on the forest canopy. Be welcome in our Halls. His point is evil living creatures. Holy damage would hurt them, while positive energy would heal them at the same time, and since it would be half positive and half holy, you would be hurt and healed equally, maybe one point going either way. It's only practical use would be against undead. To the non-bold - spot on and well noted. Hallowing Electricity or Fire should be the kind of dual fortification of Energy that does special things to Evils. To the bold - Not quite. I think you mean, damage wise. But, the combination has many many uses, anyhowz, on non-undead: @all see Essay on the expected effects of Holy Positive Energy on domains (small 'd', not as in Domain Spells) Biology Mind Metaphysical domains Just some examples, of what's to be devised, bearing Ravenscroft's comments in mind, here: fortification of Will fortification of Mood; Abjurations against evil; the fortification of Will-Only-Effect spells with Holy Energy will be an interesting thing to think about; modifications to Mind, in many ways - structural changes to eye sight (modify the Brain with the Positive Energy, and then turn your eyes into Lasers of Holy Energy - now think about all five senses). Now think about the Sixth Sense (the Metaphysical)...... *grins* get where I'm going yet......?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-05, 04:30 AM	And, for Good creatures working on Evil creatures, for a very special, carefully controlled set of items modifications to Evil being's metabilism, in such a way as to disable, cripple, maim and kill Noting that this is really not a good thing to do, unless it really is warranted for by the RP situation. Modify an organ to produce poison; Modify an organ to cause sleep, paralysis, or pain; Destroy or remove an organ; Replace and organ - such as the brain - with something else, or modify the brain of the target - to prevent the target from taking Evil actions (I guess this one's the lobotomy of D&D). But, it's all very creepy, this stuff. I'm really not very into Frankensteinian concepts - it's starting to get Necrotic Bloat-Esque-ish. *vomits* The spell series that make you feel good is where I'm at. I've got more spells in the range to create - and they are powerful weapons in combat, through the benefits to the Goods (as opposed to the costs that Frankensteinian concepts do to Evils).
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-05, 04:36 AM	It's looking like two threads then, at this stage. The problem that is never solved in short-length threads, is one of history. As product posts grow and as output adds, you run out of room. But, I think if we keep threads to about 800 posts, they should never end up culled, because one can post a new post to them, to prevent date-stamping being used to destroy the thread in a prune. I hate pruning. @Von Crown G'day Von Crown - !! Welcome
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-05, 04:37 AM	@all Now, we need a structure, floor plan and discussion about defences. If youz don't post your ideas, I'm going to start posting my own! :) @Mandos (Premier), Gabrion and any TRUE GOOD trustworthy PC Remember the PM space - time to strategise our little BUTTS off
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-05, 05:06 AM	@Gabrion I was wondering about IG Roles and a social heirarchy, for our People - do you have any thoughts? regards stav
gabrion 11-08-05, 05:26 AM	Remember the PM space - time to strategise our little BUTTS off Just sent one out. ;) @Gabrion I was wondering about IG Roles and a social heirarchy, for our People - do you have any thoughts? regards stav Well my opinion is that leadership amongst good guys is usually used for different reason than leadership amongst bad guys. We don't have to worry about strict enforcement of action, since the good side usually has the same goals in mind, but we still need leadership strictly for efficiency reasons. I don't think we will have a ton of disagreement about action between the goodies, so I'm all for having discussion and trying to reach a consensus, but I do think we should have a leader (you for the moment) to call the shots if we can't agree for some reason. I forget what baddie was over here picking on us about taking to long making decisions, but I think there is some merit to that kind of claim. Once we get the structural stuff done for the guild, we do need to make sure that decisions are made in a fairly quick manner, which is most easily done by giving the say to a central leader (this is why facist leaders win wars). As I said in my post just upstream, I also thing responsibility should be delegated when we need something done for the Guild and the person put in charge should have a fair amount of say over that area (though whatever they are working on will ultimately be up for review by the guild and the guild leader). An example would be the current task of making a guild floorplan. If we all just submit completely different ideas that have no continuity, deciding the final result will be a long process. On the other hand, having one person handle most of the leg work and submit the idea to the others for approval will be more efficient. I just happen to bring up this example because I'm working on said floorplan at the moment. If people want to see the final result let me know, as I will probably be sending it out is a PM before it actually gets posted here. Anyway, it's late here and my head hurts. Hope I made some sense.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-05, 05:39 AM	yes, it makes plenty of sense, thanx for the post. Facists don't win wars, though *smiles* - they sometimes get away with it for a little while - sometimes. Hitler and Mousolin both lost. Sometimes quick decisions are best, sometimes it's better to grind at it long and slow. Sounds to me like you've got ideas for floorplans. I'll check my PM, hang on. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-05, 06:04 AM	You should have two PMs. The first is about preventing fighting, downstream, the second is a response to your ideas. *shhhhh* :) Just sent one out. ;) Well my opinion is that leadership amongst good guys is usually used for different reason than leadership amongst bad guys. We don't have to worry about strict enforcement of action, since the good side usually has the same goals in mind, but we still need leadership strictly for efficiency reasons. I don't think we will have a ton of disagreement about action between the goodies, so I'm all for having discussion and trying to reach a consensus, but I do think we should have a leader (you for the moment) to call the shots if we can't agree for some reason. I forget what baddie was over here picking on us about taking to long making decisions, but I think there is some merit to that kind of claim. Once we get the structural stuff done for the guild, we do need to make sure that decisions are made in a fairly quick manner, which is most easily done by giving the say to a central leader (this is why facist leaders win wars). As I said in my post just upstream, I also thing responsibility should be delegated when we need something done for the Guild and the person put in charge should have a fair amount of say over that area (though whatever they are working on will ultimately be up for review by the guild and the guild leader). An example would be the current task of making a guild floorplan. If we all just submit completely different ideas that have no continuity, deciding the final result will be a long process. On the other hand, having one person handle most of the leg work and submit the idea to the others for approval will be more efficient. I just happen to bring up this example because I'm working on said floorplan at the moment. If people want to see the final result let me know, as I will probably be sending it out is a PM before it actually gets posted here. Anyway, it's late here and my head hurts. Hope I made some sense.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-08-05, 01:25 PM	OoG: none of the product-build/options-discussions have happened IG, Orcster. Little Game Time has transpired While in the middle of prayers, the hooded one incants. In a flash of silver and blue, he is standing before the spurned and abandoned creature. He holds up a warding hand, gesturing you to stop. You catch the glimpse of the facial features: angular bone structure. Silimna says "Arcanus - and our feality has been reassured. None here have opposed the treaty." There are murmurs of acquiescence as you look around the room and see nods. Some of the people whisper to each other when you look at them. Quietly exchanging thoughts. "If Arcanus seeks help, then he'd best spell out the kind of help he seeks and name the trouble." The Hooded One reaches gestures over the the wall, where you see a giant silver mirror and then incants. A voice, almost too quiet to hear says "Let us see what transpires at Ghasmal Keep and in Arcanus's world then The mirror's central glass swirls with magical fires, as silver and blue flashes reflect off your face. Suddenly, an image of Arcanus appears before you.... OoC: Orcy - you've got to describe the situation, okay, at Arcanus's..... take the baton I've just handed you and describe what Silimna and the others see. (haven't actually worked it out yet, but when I have the magic set up it should go something like this...) The Knight turns his back to the mirror quickly as it focuses on Arcanus. He looks directly at the mirror and outward as he and it explode in flames and magical energies lashing out against Silimna and the others around it. The knight sighs and turns back around facing Silimna after the explosion and flying glass is done. "Yeah... scrying on the Keep is a bad idea, but I'm sure you can see that now. Anyway, The enemy is the same as your own, but that should be all too obvious. There is no CURRENT trouble, but we do seek allies to fight against the undead forces should we need them. They won't stop themselves, and they grow more powerful by the day. Instead of just talking about how to stop them, do something to stop them."
Demonfey 11-08-05, 01:27 PM	Just so you know, if you see a giant monster made out of nun-chucks ravaging the GoPG, don't worry, it's completely normal when a guild's under my control and I'm feeling silly.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-05, 04:57 PM	Silimna looks at the representative from the Keep, and is silent. A silence falls on those gathered. She prayers, and heals the burns on her face, and then grabs a hair brush, brushing out the ashes and cinder. "We'll get back to you" She says and returns to her work. She looks offended. "Tell Arcanus, that without communication and trust between allies - and the freedom to communicate, on a needs basis - there is nothing that I can do"
Silmarien Aldalome 11-09-05, 04:36 AM	I thought that I'd post a quote, before resuming R&D soon enough. "Everything we shut our eyes to, everything we run away from, everything we deny, denigrate, or despise, serves to defeat us in the end. What seems nasty, painful, evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, if faced with an open mind. Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it." —Henry Miller
Tenzhi 11-09-05, 04:43 AM	The secret to surviving one's own hatred and prejudice is to be a Supreme Force of Benign Malice. - The Elf-Bane
Silmarien Aldalome 11-09-05, 04:51 AM	*cracks* Sil-Lisa-Simpson-ian: the secret to getting a date with Viggo, is to delude one's self. Sil-Marsha: *pouts* Oh Tenzhi! How does that help me get ready for my date with Viggo? *swooshes hair* He's going to be here at 8. Sil-Psycho-Poppins-ian: a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down... *pulls it together*
Von Crown 11-09-05, 07:57 AM	A gaunt, elderly man in bronze armor appears at the front gate. "So, you ally yourself with the keep against the undead hordes of Sargatanas? Then you may consider us an ally as well."
Demonfey 11-09-05, 12:04 PM	And, for Good creatures working on Evil creatures, for a very special, carefully controlled set of items modifications to Evil being's metabilism, in such a way as to disable, cripple, maim and kill Noting that this is really not a good thing to do, unless it really is warranted for by the RP situation. Modify an organ to produce poison; Modify an organ to cause sleep, paralysis, or pain; Destroy or remove an organ; Replace and organ - such as the brain - with something else, or modify the brain of the target - to prevent the target from taking Evil actions (I guess this one's the lobotomy of D&D). But, it's all very creepy, this stuff. I'm really not very into Frankensteinian concepts - it's starting to get Necrotic Bloat-Esque-ish. *vomits* The spell series that make you feel good is where I'm at. I've got more spells in the range to create - and they are powerful weapons in combat, through the benefits to the Goods (as opposed to the costs that Frankensteinian concepts do to Evils). Don't worry, I've got ideas worse than those.
Demonfey 11-09-05, 12:19 PM	Can all members of the Council of Archmages post on the V8 thread to show they're still there?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-09-05, 04:46 PM	Hello Von Crown - :) A gaunt, elderly man in bronze armor appears at the front gate. "So, you ally yourself with the keep against the undead hordes of Sargatanas? Then you may consider us an ally as well." As Silimna completes the last of the healing, her singed hair is restored. The hooded blue and silver cloaked one flashes you a smile, before he leans over to whisper something in Silimna's ear. Her eyes widen, before she turns back to the elderly man. She bows. Hail great one! Long has been your journey, I see. For to survive the world to your great age no small thing. flashing a darting glanze, suddenly an aide bears in a tray with aromatic, leaf-wrapped supper. The aide bears them to you, as another with a flagon of wine beckons you to accept a glass without speaking. Cushions are brought to you and a space is cleared for you to settle....
Silmarien Aldalome 11-09-05, 05:05 PM	Holy Eyes Vivomancy/Vibrant/Vegemite Level: Cleric ? Components: V,S,F Casting Time: ? Range: ? Effect: ? Target: ? Duration: ? Saving Throw: ? Spell Resistance: Yes The Cleric opens a channel to the Positive Energy Plane, resulting in an influx of silver-blue, vibrant starfire. She directs this power into her skull, where, by Divine Inspiration, she focuses the energy into the brain, modifying sensory structures and fortifying existent brain structures. Onlookers suddenly see the eyes of the cleric alter; they become swirling constellations of stars, widening and changing size. There are two effects of this spell. First, with her Holy Sight, she can automatically sense all alignments in the creatures around her and all forms of both negative and positive energy sources within range of the spell. To the viewer, these energy sources are like visible, swirling vortices, crackling with power. All living beings shine with silver-blue starfire and all undeads or creatures animated with negative energy become shining, black targets. The second effect allows the cleric to strike her target with Holy Positive Energy (for Undeads), which does 1d6 per caster level (maximum to be determined, pending spell level of Positive Energy damage) and 1d6 per caster level (maximum to be determined, pending spell level) of Holy damage. In addition to this, the Undead must make a Will Save (DC=pending) or be destroyed. If the Cleric chooses to strike a living being, she may sacrifice the Positive Energy function and strike Evil creatures with Holy Fire, doing 1d6 damage per level of the caster (maximum to be determined) Will Save halves.
Demonfey 11-09-05, 05:43 PM	I see you're trying to diversify your spells a bit, Sil.
Von Crown 11-09-05, 05:52 PM	How often would you be able to use the damaging function? I'd say maybe duration 1 min/level and using the attack option end the spell then. Otherwise, even if it were 1 round/level and once per round, that's still a save-or-die every round, which would probably put the spell at high end ninth level, especially for clerics. Overall, that route would make it easily more powerful than implosion, already a good spell. I'd refrence Implosion for balancing it if you want it to be ninth level. Implosion Evocation Level: Clr 9, Destruction 9 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Targets: One corporeal creature/round Duration: Concentration (up to 4 rounds) Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: Yes You create a destructive resonance in a corporeal creature’s body. For each round you concentrate, you cause one creature to collapse in on itself, killing it. (This effect, being instantaneous, cannot be dispelled.) You can target a particular creature only once with each casting of the spell. Implosion has no effect on creatures in gaseous form or on incorporeal creatures. So either limit it to one blast per casting, in which case I'd say probably 7th to 8th level, since it also does an appreciable amount of damage that doesn't allow a save and has the alignmentvision (Which I will admit is handed out like candy, so that doesn't impact too much) with a detect undead on top. One interesting side effect, since it is rather powerful, may be you lose the ability to visually percieve constructs while it is in effect. That would be interesting, as well as enough of a balancing factor as to put it at level 6 or 7. One last alternative is that perhaps while it is in effect (say, half a minute/level (5 rounds) or so), you can use a turning attempt to do the damage or destroy, and it doesn't end the duration. Also, unless you use the turning idea, I see no reason to use a nonstandard DC. I'll do an IG post in a very little bit seperately, since I don't want this to get too cluttered.
Demonfey 11-09-05, 06:24 PM	Just so I don't forget, if I'm absent from the boards for a while, you're in charge of the GoUE while I'm gone, Von Crown.
Von Crown 11-09-05, 08:05 PM	Okay. The man waves away the servants bringing food. "I appreciate the gesture, but certain circumstances would make that quite a waste. You should save any supplies for those who need them. I would discuss tactics with you, for it seems that I am viewed with a considerable amount of suspicion at the halls of the Knights Von Drache. In any event, I am Commander General Soth Vordoon of the Dauthaar Armed Forces. I have been considering our options for some time, and it seems to me that it may be to our advantage to fire the first shot, if you can call it that after the occurances I've heard of at the Royal Guard. I would approach them with an alliance, but I fear they may be rather uneasy after those occurances, and probably in no shape to take a very active role in a direct confrontation. Anyways, I believe I have a good plan of attack if we were to decide on a full assault, but it would take a bit of time to pull together some things, most notably the fact that my forces I requested have not yet been able to slog through the bureaucracy back home."
Silmarien Aldalome 11-10-05, 04:18 PM	How often would you be able to use the damaging function? I'd say maybe duration 1 min/level and using the attack option end the spell then. Otherwise, even if it were 1 round/level and once per round, that's still a save-or-die every round, which would probably put the spell at high end ninth level, especially for clerics. Overall, that route would make it easily more powerful than implosion, already a good spell. I'd refrence Implosion for balancing it if you want it to be ninth level. thank you for your thoughts.... :) My initial thoughts were that it should let you use the see alignment and energy types for up to the duration of the spell, but that once you zap something, the spell ends. I'd not thought of the combining effects with a Turn Attempt for this particular spell - but I have a series of ideas about how to combine magic, feats, skills and turn attempts. I don't think 8th level is right, but neither do I think 5th level is right, either, because the spell is better than Cone of Cold, say. @all I've gotta go to a psychotherapy conference, so only have time for a quick post, but will be back. Please post your ideas about level-power range and @Von Crown Silimna listens to the guest's comments, noting the "first strike" and tactical comments. There is a murmuring amongst the people, and Silimna's brow furroughs. She looks worried. Again, she incants, and the giant mirror erupts into swirling, magical silvery-blue fires. Suddenly Silmarien's face appears in the Mirror "Cousin - we have a guest - if this is not a bad time, he speaks of war and pre-emptive action, in one sense anyway, although, The Temple of the Damned was an invasion of Tyrannor. My conscience is troubled by this dialogue. What say you on this matter?" She looks at the people in the Guild and adds "People of Eilistraee and other goodly gods, what say you to this request from the stranger?"
Demonfey 11-10-05, 04:22 PM	Where is the guild located on the map, anyway?
Tenzhi 11-11-05, 01:36 AM	Talismans of Rest for the Dead These strips of paper with prayers written on them may be used to paralyze any undead creature. One simply makes a touch attack to stick the paper to the undead. If successful, the paper is stuck to the undead and the undead is paralyzed (Will save DC22 to move or perform an action in any round the paper is attached). The paper may easily be removed by hand. It may be burned away as easily as any normal paper. And a strong gust of wind has a 50% chance of dislodging it if no further extraordinary measures are taken to secure it.
Demonfey 11-11-05, 01:40 AM	I think that they have those in the Oriental Adventures book, or something similar, anyway. The trick with those is to have a nail and hammer to firmly attach the ofuda, though.
Tenzhi 11-11-05, 01:41 AM	I think that they have those in the Oriental Adventures book, or something similar, anyway. The trick with those is to have a nail and hammer to firmly attach the ofuda, though. I prefer Sovereign Glue. ;)
Demonfey 11-11-05, 01:45 AM	Yes, but if its one you really don't like, which one's more fulfilling?
Tenzhi 11-11-05, 01:52 AM	Sovereign glue. Because once you've attached it with that you can be as sadistic as you want with no worries (if physical sadism is your sort of thing - personally, the Elf-Bane is content with putting them in a pocket dimension filled with care bears where they're forced to watch episodes of My Little Pony and Strawberry Shortcake for all eternity).
Demonfey 11-11-05, 01:56 AM	...you have out eviled me. I am dishonored so badly, I have no other choice. Seppuku! *commits seppuku.* Ow, ow that hurts.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-11-05, 09:45 AM	The Knight shrugs as he continues to walk out of the guild of pure good. He never did like these type, they hated everything that remotely seemed evil, it was so... inhuman. He grins and chuckles a bit as he leaves and notices the man in bronze. "Yeah yeah, bye. We didn't expect help from you crusaders anyway, you'd rather rant about ridding the world of evil than taking action, so predictable. Oh, and your guest there leads an army composed of undead, happy huntings."
Demonfey 11-11-05, 02:43 PM	And horrible mutations!
gabrion 11-11-05, 06:33 PM	She looks at the people in the Guild and adds "People of Eilistraee and other goodly gods, what say you to this request from the stranger?"[/color] Aramel looks genuinely concerned after hearing the comment from the Knight who left (about Von Crown's army). He replies to Silimna's question, "A few thing I have to say about this business. First, I should say that I have walked this, and many other for that matter, earth for a long while, and I've seen many of these battles take place. In my youth I was eager to join the fight for good, but as I grew older I decided fighting solves very little in most cases. I know little about our foe, but he may be an exception to the intuition I have. That is to say, if he pillages this land with an evil army, then we may have no choice but to face him with arms. If that's the case, then I would indeed like to pursue him so that such a fight might take place when we decide, and not the other way around. As for this man who just arrived, if he truly does lead an army of undead, then I'm afraid I would not be able to fight by his side. Such means of amassing power are reprehensible and I hope the others of this guild will think the same. Of course this depends on what the truth of the matter is, so if our visitor can explain himself it would help." Aramel seems to be done with his speech, but almost as an after thought he adds, "Oh yes, and if we do decide to fight this evil force that has infested the land, I will need some time to call upon friends of mine who would like to aid our effort. They should be able to arrive here soon though." Basically Aramel is a little out of the loop on what's happening, since he's new to the area and what not. Anyone volunteering info on what they acutally know about Sargatanas would be useful. Von Crown, he want's to know what exactly you are proposing. Lastly, the end bit is meant to signal the fact that when Aramel is compelted/approved, he will have the leadership feat and some followers to help out at the GoPG Did you get my email with the floorplan? Just wondering cause I didn't get any feedback yet.
Demonfey 11-11-05, 08:33 PM	The wolf comes in. Before anything happens that involves combat, I just wish to say that its nothing personal.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-11-05, 08:46 PM	@Gabrion yes - gottit - and have responded - you should have an e-mail... There is a poised watchfulness amongst those gathered. Ripples of anticipation pass through the people gathered. The Hooded One is bearing an ornate box, gilded with Silverstarfire metal and an Elvish Rune burns on the lid. He and Silimna exchange silent thoughts and Silimna looks pleased. She incants and the rune flares momentarily, and she then opens the lid of the box. She suddenly looks out to your scrying portal, with a large grin on her face and beckoning to you to come and look more closely, she points at the contents of the box. She incants, adjustring the magnification of the Scry and you can see that within the box are many vials containing iridescent liquids. Some are crimson and some are gold and glow of their own accord, like the sun. Others again are bone grey-brown and then bone-white. All are in glass vials, stoppered with silveryblue caps. Her eyes glint as she says to you "Hallowed be the Gifts of the Universe. These substances are alive with the force of the Universe and Hallowed as the aura of Eilistraee. They are gifts of Creation."
Silmarien Aldalome 11-11-05, 08:50 PM	Addressing the people, and the Faithful, she says, "We must prepare to save Tyranor. The Undead and other Banes of the Earth are amarch." Then, turning to you, she says :Those of you who are our Alllies, will be contacted and our battle plans readied. Our secrets shared with those we trust and our wrath for those of you who mean us ill."
Demonfey 11-11-05, 08:50 PM	Positoxins, right? Or potions?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-11-05, 08:54 PM	Positoxins, right? Or potions? Some things are best kept as surprises....about the root beer - 'copulate' is what it means here in colloquial Ozzie. *chuckles* regards stav Also - do you have any comments on spell levels for the most recent product?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-11-05, 08:57 PM	The wolf comes in. Before anything happens that involves combat, I just wish to say that its nothing personal. Demonfey, if there is one person at this forum who knows how to play alignments and get into conflict in RP mode without getting personal, and keep good-spiritied about it, it's you. I have every faith in your very good nature. I can breath without worrying, knowing you're the man for the GoUE job. regards stav
Tenzhi 11-11-05, 11:24 PM	Some things are best kept as surprises....about the root beer - 'copulate' is what it means here in colloquial Ozzie. *chuckles* So... a word with obvious connotations like "mate" is perfectly innocuous, but a perfectly innocent word like "root" is not. You wacky Australians. For what it's worth, the "root" in root beer does actually refer to the roots of the plant used to flavour it. Sarsaparilla root beer is flavoured with the roots of the sarsaparilla plant.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 11-12-05, 12:32 AM	wrong thread
Demonfey 11-12-05, 12:39 AM	Seeing how this thread is, Priest?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 11-12-05, 12:43 AM	done
Demonfey 11-12-05, 12:44 AM	Which gets them geared for a siege. Also, I don't have to, since it's OOC. IC stuff gives them valid reason to prepare.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 11-12-05, 12:47 AM	they've not seen the posts yet, EDIT QUICKLY
Silmarien Aldalome 11-12-05, 04:08 AM	The Essay and its predictions for pending products....... *grins* Essay on Positive Energy Fortified with the Holy 1) Introduction Positive Energy is the power of life. It is creation, living, vibrant power that is the wellspring of conception and birth. It is a force with infinite potential whose form manifests itself in all manner of bird, beast, plant, insect and fungus in the universe. Equally, it is the firmament upon which the inanimate springs forth - earth, stone, mountains, water. It is the energy of all of life. The Holy power of a Deity can infuse Positive Energy, fortifying it. Hallowed force is the aura of good gods. Holy power is the signature of a Deity's being. To quote Blasphemous_Albatros This was couched in a view where the organisation of the Deity's thinking, body and being is a wellspring of Holy (or Unholy as it were). Their Divine Aura being the product, in one sense of the lifeforce and energy of the Deity. While a Deity does not have a metabolism in the ordinary sense, their being is, in one sense, energy in an organised, shaped and manifest form. The expected effects from the combination of the Hallowed and Positive Energy is something not very well developed in D&D. Despite this fuzzy area of non-definition, one can make some spefic predictions (hypotheses, if you like) about exactly what effects are expected and how those effects should manifest themselves. This essay looks at the intersection defined by i) Holy Power and Positive Energy and then cross-multiplies those findings against ii) the physical, mental and metaphysical domains. Thus, defined by this work is the following domains: First - Holy Power and Positive Energy - defining some Descriptors and Parameters. Holy Power and Positive Energy and its effects over the body's biology; Holy Power and Positive Energy and its effects over the mind; Holy Power and Positive Energy and its effects over the metaphysical 2) Holy Power and Positive Energy Mechanically speaking, the Good descriptor describes anything Holy. But, what about something that is Good and that is fortified with Positive Energy? What should this be called? By analogy from Complete Divine, the Metamagic Feat Consecrate Spell allows you to fortify any energy type (fire, cold, electricity) with the Good descriptor, allowing half your energy to by-pass energy resistance. When it comes to Positive Energy, though, our Tomes are unclear about exactly what you can do with the power, let alone what will happen when you foritify Positive Energy with the Divine Holy power of the gods. Thus, below is a series of predictions that develop ideas, and that utilise the following assumptions; That Positive Energy is antithetical to anything that utilises Negative Energy; That Positive Energy only harms living creatures, when its "concentration" equals or exceeds that of things with the (Major) Positive Dominant descriptor, but *not* when Positive Energy is only "concentrated" to the degree of things with the (Minor) Positive Dominant descriptor (see description of Asgard for more); Positive Energy is a power source and may fortify any spell that is life-affirming (e.g. Healing spells, see Asgard); The biology of beings is dependent on an uninterrupted supply of positive energy is available for that biology; That Positive Energy is the energy that is in every living cell, organ and aspect of the body; That Positive Energy may be moulded to modify, transform, or influence any aspect of a living being; When Positive Energy is fortified with Holy power, it becomes harmful to anything with the Evil descriptor. 2.1) Holy Power and Positive Energy - Effects over the Body's Biology Holy Positive Energy may be used to: accelerate or slow down metabolism; modify any aspect or function of biology, metabolism, or catabolism. This includes, for example, digestion, hormone function, neurobiology and organ function; modify any aspect or funciton of biology, metabolism or catabolism, in such a way so as to procure special defences against evil, and negative energy. 2.2) Holy Power and Positive Energy - Effects over the Mind Holy Positive Energy may be used to: modify any structural feature of the brain, including the structural features that go into memory, thinking, feeling, sensation and perception (e.g. modifying vision); fortify living mental architecture against the influences of negative energy; fortify living mental architecture against the influences of evil; alter the organisation of Self, by modifying structural and functional features of mind. 2.3) Holy Power and Positive Energy - Effects over the Metaphysical Holy Positive Energy may be used to: Enhance the connection to the metaphysical universe (the spirit world, divinity, the planes of existence); I can't think of anything else :) Please discuss, if you like.... regards stav
gabrion 11-12-05, 04:48 AM	Not that I question anyone's intentions or personal whatisjaggies, but how can the GoUE attack the GoPG if the latter has not actually established itself. I know some of us are trying to get things codified at the moment, but as far as I know we don't exist as far as the actual IFWG are concerned, so how could we be targeted? Thanks to anyone who explains.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-12-05, 05:07 AM	They can't, Gabe - we're in transition time, and for the reasons you cite. anyhowz, we've got our preparation work to keep mounting. *grins*
Tenzhi 11-12-05, 05:15 AM	So, essentially, adding alignment properties to elemental forces. An interesting concept if explored along all major axes of alignment. Then you could have Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, and Anarchic themed elemental powers.
gabrion 11-12-05, 05:37 AM	They can't, Gabe - we're in transition time, and for the reasons you cite. anyhowz, we've got our preparation work to keep mounting. *grins* Ok, that's what I thought. Soon though, we will be up and rolling, if I'm not mistaken. I'm excited.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 11-12-05, 12:25 PM	(OOC) The Unholy Despoilers' Outpost is watching you progress, GoPG'ers....as soon as you prepare yourselves...we will be waiting
Von Crown 11-12-05, 01:09 PM	"I am a general. I command the army I'm given by my lord. If I'm given anarmy that's got undead in it, I command them. If I'm given an army of consructs, I command 'em. If I'm given an army of elves, I command 'em. It's just my job, y'see."
Kobold_Ur_Priest 11-12-05, 01:41 PM	you seem sure of your ability to command others, perhaps we of the Unholy Despoilers could put you to good use...
jagggar 11-12-05, 03:22 PM	Well, as well as a stronghold mapthingy, Also gunna need to know where it's located.
jagggar 11-14-05, 12:45 AM	"PUPPY!!!" the chubby, vertically-challenged jagggar giggles as she tugs on the wolf's tail. She begins looking around as if she's looking for a buzzing fly. "Oh yeah. . ." She leaves the wolf and meanders to Silimna. "B.j. said dis id for you." She hands her a scroll sealed by the Lords of Tyrannor. Guild-Masters, Your presence is required at the First Annual Inter-Guild Guild Conferance. You shall be able to work out alliances without being forced to play host to those you may not yet trust. All guild members are invited. While in attendance, the Lords of Tyrannor shall watch over your guilds. The triple-seal of the Lords of Tyrannor is embossed upon the paper as the signature. Attend here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=533957).
Demonfey 11-14-05, 12:58 AM	Okay...
gabrion 11-14-05, 06:46 AM	The Guild of Pure Good carries on it's normal day to day tasks, and the members grow more and more used to the presence of the old apostle of Illmatar, who calls himself Aramel, living with them. He prays often and speaks to any commoners who will attend the place, telling them of the greatness of his lord, and of all those who are pure of heart. After some time though, Aramel approaches the leader of the Guild (the dark skinned one who calls herself Silimna) and tells her, "I told you when I came here that my purpose, as given to me by my lord, was to help stop the spread of evil across this land. As I speak to Illmatar daily, it becomes clear to me that our time to put an end to this scourge draws near. Our enemies are strong though, and we will not be able to stand against them without allies to aid us in our struggle. For this reason, I must leave the guild for some time in order to call upon old friends of mine, ones who will no doubt be willing to offer assistance in this time of need." Something about his tone tells you that Aramel is disturbed by the situation. No doubt the old man speaks of bringing in help from those who will fight with you, but from his peaceful demeanor and the wise sermons he often gives, you know that the idea of fighting is not one of which he is fond. "The allies of which I speak are the warriors of nature herself. They must feel this land being torn-apart and the balance of nature destroyed by the armies of evil, and I have little doubt that they will fight beside us until we can defeat this foe. I hate to think what battles lie ahead, for fighting is the single thing that will most corrupt a man's soul, but if our enemy carries the perverse taint of undead we have little choice but to bring them eternal peace. Their numbers swell by the day though, so we must act decisively if we hope to end the death and destruction Sargatanas has brought upon this land. I will return but three days hence, on the mark of this hour, and with me I hope to bring those who will secure the peace and freedom of this land. May the winds carry my flight quickly, for I fear time runs short for the forces of good..." As he speaks this last sentence, Aramel begins to change into a majestic huge hawk, swiftly taking flight, and heading off into the northern sky. You can't help but hope that he will indeed return with a force strong enough to defend tyrannor. I've been trying to finish up Aramel's sheet, and it turns out he will have the leadership feat. I figured it would be more fun to RP his connection with his followers, so basically he is leaving to go call on some favors from the Wardens of the Northern Reaches and the Voices of Nature (the troops I posted recently in the PC thread 4). The flying thing at the end is him using PaO to turn into a Dragonhawk to gain the ability to fly. When he returns, I will RP the arrival of his followers.
Demonfey 11-14-05, 12:01 PM	Funny thing is, his followers and my general of scouting's followers will probably have a great deal in common... Also, GoUE has dibs on first attack on you (we were preparing to attack last week, stopped because Jagggar said she was simplifying rules.) Also, if you don't come to the meeting, we'll begin divvying up the districts between the evil guilds...
gabrion 11-14-05, 01:38 PM	Also, if you don't come to the meeting, we'll begin divvying up the districts between the evil guilds... Speaking of which, do you have a link to the "beginnings" thread so we can see which spots are still open?
Demonfey 11-14-05, 01:44 PM	Probably, although I've been determining claims to at least two areas (Unholy Despoilers are still under my jurisdiction). How about when Sil's away, you act as guild leader until he's back for situations like this, but don't make decisions that affect the game until he's back? Here's (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Kingside_Bishop/Tyranor.jpg) the most I came up with. Dibs on the jungle (lower left) and one other as the GoUE. Head to the CoA if you're a member so we can discuss which landmass we want. Probably also going to start another pyro guild again, which will take the volcano.
jagggar 11-14-05, 01:48 PM	That was easy. . . http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=480078 The claim thing is going to be redone as well. You only get one and a Resource Center (RC) (it's a farm/sawmill/mine/cattle ranch/etc). I'll be going into details at the new thread
Demonfey 11-14-05, 01:56 PM	Wish I had noticed that. So Sargatanas has the jungle, now. I'll mention what they have after taking over the Guard. Also, the Unholy Despoilers (and even the kobold marines) are/were part of the GoUE (well, the last one was supposed to be, anyway. Nemesis just made his own guild after I told him that he could head the scouts or naval group if he wanted), just with a different name, paintjob, and leader. Archmages=Misty Islands? Okay.
gabrion 11-14-05, 02:55 PM	*whistles at Sil* Now where have you gone...? I was looking at the currently occupied areas of tyrannor's land, and I think the GoPG would fit in nicely in the Peaceful Orchard, but I need to hear our fearless leader's opinion on the matter.
thasis 11-15-05, 02:57 PM	Sorry I didn't post anything here about my absense. I even had to get my friend post my leaving post. Incase you didn't read the post, I am no longer allowed to use the internet... I might be able to squeeze some posts in well in school, but not very frequently because it has to be on class time. Farwell, Thasis
gabrion 11-15-05, 03:03 PM	Sorry I didn't post anything here about my absense. I even had to get my friend post my leaving post. Incase you didn't read the post, I am no longer allowed to use the internet... I might be able to squeeze some posts in well in school, but not very frequently because it has to be on class time. Farwell, Thasis That's ok Thasis, I think most of us got a chance to read it at the GoUE. As I said before, it's sad to see you go, but good luck with everything. I'm sure you'll be fine, just stay true to yourself!
jagggar 11-15-05, 03:26 PM	I'm here thanks to you. T'was your siggy I followed. *huggles* We'll miss ya.
thasis 11-15-05, 03:32 PM	You followed my sig here? Oh my, didn't know that. And I'm not completly gone, I'm trying to fit SOME posting in. On either Tuesdays and Thursdays, or Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. One week I get computers twice a week, and the next week I get it three times a week.
Demonfey 11-15-05, 03:33 PM	Good luck with that, Thasis.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-15-05, 03:34 PM	A man walks in decked out fully in magial items and armor. His arms are made of various non-biological substances, one of iron and another that appears to be some sort of demonic creature's arm at first glance. He looks around the guild with a bow as an Erinyes enters behind him with a cold emotionless stare. He smiles widely at those in the guild. "Hello folks! Names Glenn, not Gwenn, not Lenny, not Frank but Glenn. I've come here today to offer you an exciting deal. You see I'm a builder of things, what things you ask? Those things, these things anything thats can be called it, that, thing, or maybe even he or she whatever makes ya happy. What, you ask, can I do for you? Why I can build you things of course, what else. I can build you tall things, short things, hard things, soft things, good things, bad things, things that havent even been invented yet! Whats the deal? Whats the catch? Its all at a severely reduced price!"
Silmarien Aldalome 11-15-05, 04:38 PM	@thasis take care thasis. I've sent my farewells to you at the GoUE, but, here's another bit. The Pereldar grieve the passing of thasis the good. The gathered folk of Peredhil Halls weep about the Obelisk of Peredhil Halls, and the Versemasters put down their staffs after having just propelled starfire into the heavens. Silmarien turns her attention to you, her mein is saddened as the summer breeze blows about the Keep. Grasses rustle in the summer skies and the cornfields are afire with living green. "For the passing of thasis marks the departure of Legend. What this means for our Lands none, even amongst the wise can say."
Silmarien Aldalome 11-15-05, 04:41 PM	*whistles at Sil* Now where have you gone...? I was looking at the currently occupied areas of tyrannor's land, and I think the GoPG would fit in nicely in the Peaceful Orchard, but I need to hear our fearless leader's opinion on the matter. I'm here Gabe, just reorganising life over this neck of the woods. A big change going on here. Nothing about health, but something as significant. I've got two responses for your question - yes *grins* and the rest is for PMs, and for jagggy, and GoPG people only! :) regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-15-05, 04:58 PM	more product......incoming
Silmarien Aldalome 11-15-05, 05:20 PM	A man walks in decked out fully in magial items and armor. His arms are made of various non-biological substances, one of iron and another that appears to be some sort of demonic creature's arm at first glance. He looks around the guild with a bow as an Erinyes enters behind him with a cold emotionless stare. He smiles widely at those in the guild. "Hello folks! Names Glenn, not Gwenn, not Lenny, not Frank but Glenn. I've come here today to offer you an exciting deal. You see I'm a builder of things, what things you ask? Those things, these things anything thats can be called it, that, thing, or maybe even he or she whatever makes ya happy. What, you ask, can I do for you? Why I can build you things of course, what else. I can build you tall things, short things, hard things, soft things, good things, bad things, things that havent even been invented yet! Whats the deal? Whats the catch? Its all at a severely reduced price!" Silimna looks grimly around the room, and the Hooded One nods silently at Silimna. She turns to Gabrion, smiling, and wanders over to stand by her ally and friend. She whispers in his ear, something below the audible range. The people in the room ready themselves. Looking at the newcomer, you can see tension in their gait as sword arms move to sword hilts and as the more vulnerable people move behind their defenders in arms.
Von Crown 11-15-05, 05:45 PM	A small, nearly insubstantialmote of bluish-green energy shoots intothe room, darting over to the general and up into his hand, solidifying into a scroll. Unrolling it, he scans the lines. "We regret to inform... present military and political situation... WHAT! Troop request DENIED!" He clears his throat "Well, it would seem that the government has most graciously decided that Idon't need troops to do my job. Just great. So they want me to hold my current post,but they won't give me an army. Well, I guess I could still provide tactical advice... They did say that they were negotiating with the Vhakaad tribe, so they may send something, at least. We can hope. So, what forces are available here?"
Dyne 11-15-05, 09:32 PM	A young man in highly polished plate armor eagerly strides into the halls of the Guild of Pure Good. However, seeing the half-elves' hostile stances, he seems taken aback. "I come in peace, meaning no harm. I am a soldier of Ghashmal Keep, a Knight Von Drache. I seek to establish a bond of peace and brotherhood between the aforementioned party and this one. I believe previous misunderstandings have led to a gap between our two peoples, one that will be our mutual downfall unless it is bridged with strong bonds of fellowship. "In simple terms, Ghashmal Keep would like a political alliance with the Guild of Pure Good, an agreement to an exchange of aid, as well as support in the case of either party being attacked by our mutual enemies. What say you?"
Von Crown 11-15-05, 09:48 PM	Is there a new HEF yet? The old one is locked and I can't find a new one. And now for something completely different. BEHOLD! http://home.comcast.net/~n.sattler/ IT IS BORN! This site is for an audio drama thing I've been working on with a friend of mine for a while now. I finally got a site up for it, even if it isn't much to look at yet. Expect further updates, of course, as well as extra stuff. Unless plans change, there will probably eventually be game-rule related extras as well (just don't expect the to be too serious) [/shamelessplug]
premier666 11-16-05, 11:27 AM	A young man in highly polished plate armor eagerly strides into the halls of the Guild of Pure Good. However, seeing the half-elves' hostile stances, he seems taken aback. "I come in peace, meaning no harm. I am a soldier of Ghashmal Keep, a Knight Von Drache. I seek to establish a bond of peace and brotherhood between the aforementioned party and this one. I believe previous misunderstandings have led to a gap between our two peoples, one that will be our mutual downfall unless it is bridged with strong bonds of fellowship. "In simple terms, Ghashmal Keep would like a political alliance with the Guild of Pure Good, an agreement to an exchange of aid, as well as support in the case of either party being attacked by our mutual enemies. What say you?" OOC: yo Dyne, be more patient then orcy cause everything takes a long time to be done here, and we aren't even sure (well I'm not) who is our guildmaster.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-16-05, 01:36 PM	Silimna looks grimly around the room, and the Hooded One nods silently at Silimna. She turns to Gabrion, smiling, and wanders over to stand by her ally and friend. She whispers in his ear, something below the audible range. The people in the room ready themselves. Looking at the newcomer, you can see tension in their gait as sword arms move to sword hilts and as the more vulnerable people move behind their defenders in arms. Glenn looks around with a raised eyebrow. He shrugs and places a hand upon one elbow, placing the finger of the other upon his lips in thought. "So I take it you don't like merchants? Maybe its the fake Erinyes? She isn't realy folks, shes all kinds of built. More like a bodyguard really. Now, lets take our hands off the toothpicks. I guess you folks don't care to have anything from me then? I outfitted the entire Temple of the Damned. I can do the same here... for a... modest price." A massive stone creature carved in the image of some sort of beastly draconic creature enters and stands behind Glenn with it's arms crossed as he crosses his own arms. ((Orcy was not impatient Premier... the Knight however was. There is a difference between character and player. There was plenty done in character and such while the Knight waited, obviously one will get annoyed when in such a situation))
gabrion 11-16-05, 02:58 PM	Well one problem at the moment is that Aramel isn't home (he's of chasing people in the woods) and thought Silimna was at the conference thingy (despite her post above). If it will help though, I think it's about time for Aramel to return anyway. The following assumes that Silimna is away at the meeting, but I will amend it if I'm wrong. Three days pass in peace from the hour when Aramel departed into the north, promising to return with those who would help the forces of light in this current struggle with evil. As promised, the siloutte of a huge bird appears on the horizon, but as you watch it grow near you notice that there are others like it. The one in the lead carries an old druid in green robes who shares many of Aramel's facial features. Each of the other birds (more than 2 dozen in all), carry men an women clothed with piece of the forest itself. The entire group lands in front of the GoPG and as the first druid dismounts, the bird carrying him transforms into the familiar form of Aramel, though he seems younger and more full of vitality. The old druid waves at his followers and says something you can't hear, and they take to the air again. Some head toward the local woods, while others (about 5 of them), begin to circle the sky around the Guild, watching for those who approach. Aramel and his companion enter the GoPG to see Glenn and the one of the Knights Von Drache standing there, speaking with either Silimna (or some high ranking servant if she's not there). He notices that the creature with Glenn is not real (+27 spot check for a DC 20 :) ), but never-the-less looks disturbed at seeing such a creature. Before speaking with them, Aramel confers very quickly with one of the guards to learn the two men's purposes here. "Welcome friends to this place of peace and rest. If you have suffered pain of any kind, be it a scarring of the body or the soul, be assured that we will offer you what help is in our service. Though from what I've heard you did not come to drink the waters of life or hear sermons, but for other reasons. Another Knight from Gashmal Keep visits us? I'm glad to see this, for it seems that our last meeting with one of your members was a bit of a misunderstanding. I can't speak officially for our guild, but we would promote an alliance with the only other force of good that stands strong in this time of trouble. The trouble we ran into before was because our leader tried to open up a magical communication line with the Keep, and was turned away in a small explosion. Of course if the leader of that guild demands privacy and wishes only to communicate through personal messanger, we will not object, but it should be noted that communication between allies is important indeed. Tell him that, pending the approval of our leader, the scrying defenses in the meeting room of this guild will be lowerd enought that he may send what messages he wishes. If he does not wish to do the same we will not object, but I would question the wisdom of such leadership. As for you, Glenn is it?, I can't say that the this organization is in particular need of your services at the moment. Our defense have already been contracted, and if the model you've brought along indicated your prefered type of work, I'm afraid it wouldn't get along well with the aesthetic around here. In other news, Aramel and his "army" are finally approved! Now people can actually kill him...
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-16-05, 04:24 PM	Glenn looks around the room then settles his eyes on the Erinyes. "Model? No no, thats just my bodyguard. I wanted to go with something feared but not bad to look at. I mean would you want to look at a dragon's tail end all day? But theres always something I can do for you. I have so many talents to use! I work for whoever has the money, I don't really care who or what pays me, as long as I get paid. I suppose you could call me a 'cleric of the coin' or something. But, if you want to be left in the dust by your enemies because you see one little imitation Erinyes, then so be it! Unless of course someone else would like something done..."
Silmarien Aldalome 11-16-05, 04:58 PM	OoC: your responses are too beautifully rich to cheapen with a few lines. I've got to go to work, but will be with you again soon...... :bow: more product.....incoming I've declared our Allegiance - to a cause at the Conference thread. enjoy a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down
Demonfey 11-16-05, 05:08 PM	Glenn looks around the room then settles his eyes on the Erinyes. "Model? No no, thats just my bodyguard. I wanted to go with something feared but not bad to look at. I mean would you want to look at a dragon's tail end all day? But theres always something I can do for you. I have so many talents to use! I work for whoever has the money, I don't really care who or what pays me, as long as I get paid. I suppose you could call me a 'cleric of the coin' or something. But, if you want to be left in the dust by your enemies because you see one little imitation Erinyes, then so be it! Unless of course someone else would like something done..." Just for the irony, the GoUE will order one red dragon hound archon effigy.
Dyne 11-16-05, 06:06 PM	"Of course communication is necessary. Magical spying, or scrying, is prohibited, however. This is a time of troubles, when war is sweeping the land. We cannot risk our enemies obtaining important information when other forms of communication between allies are possible." The young man looks around the room. "I see that your leader seems to not be present. Perhaps this would be better discussed at the Inter-Guild Conference." He turns and exits the GoPG, heading for the conference.
premier666 11-16-05, 06:06 PM	Glenn looks around with a raised eyebrow. He shrugs and places a hand upon one elbow, placing the finger of the other upon his lips in thought. "So I take it you don't like merchants? Maybe its the fake Erinyes? She isn't realy folks, shes all kinds of built. More like a bodyguard really. Now, lets take our hands off the toothpicks. I guess you folks don't care to have anything from me then? I outfitted the entire Temple of the Damned. I can do the same here... for a... modest price." A massive stone creature carved in the image of some sort of beastly draconic creature enters and stands behind Glenn with it's arms crossed as he crosses his own arms. ((Orcy was not impatient Premier... the Knight however was. There is a difference between character and player. There was plenty done in character and such while the Knight waited, obviously one will get annoyed when in such a situation)) I forgot what character you used when you came here orcy, so I used your name instead, but I understand the diferecne bethwheen IG and OG. I hope you didn't got offended.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-16-05, 06:46 PM	Glenn taps his chin and a large grin spreads across his face. "Conferance... ooh, lots of people to give my pitch too. Yes... Thats the place for me..."
gabrion 11-16-05, 09:04 PM	Aramel takes a second thought about having constructs around as guards, and also about the meeting going on, which he should probably attend. Turning to his brother he says, "I'm going to attend that meeting everyone has been talking about. Would you like to come along?" The druid agrees and the two of them walk out of the GoPG right behind Glen. Catching up with the fellow Aramel says, "Excuse me sir, but we are alos travelling to the meeting between the guilds. Would you mind us accompanying you there? If you have no better way of travel, my brother here could take us both there quite rapidly overland. I could teleport us, but I'm afraid I haven't seen the place before. I have also rethought your offer about constructing defensive forces. I assume that you can make creatures of all kinds. If this is the case, would you be able to contruct a gold dragon to help defend our territory? If so, how long would it be before it would be ready?" If Glen travels along with Aramel they can discuss prices and available creatures along the way.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:06 AM	"Of course communication is necessary. Magical spying, or scrying, is prohibited, however. This is a time of troubles, when war is sweeping the land. We cannot risk our enemies obtaining important information when other forms of communication between allies are possible." The young man looks around the room. "I see that your leader seems to not be present. Perhaps this would be better discussed at the Inter-Guild Conference." He turns and exits the GoPG, heading for the conference. Silimna stands, looking at Dyne. "It is a time of trouble. But when magical fires are used to interdict open communication between allies, there is something wrong. I have no problem with our allies keeping an eye on us, with open scrying. In fact, knowing my allies watch makes me feel reassured. I can only imagine there is something to be concerned about when an 'ally' uses magical explosions to block our supportive watch over you. I'm sorry, but my suspicion is aroused. Ashariana bears your emblem as well, and I remember her gaze when I was bound by metal and when the fetid breath of the Undead sought to take my will away and make me in their image. I don't trust you. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, I really do. My fears could be allayed, though, but I suspect you'll get angry with me for asking you to prove yourself. Once bitten twice shy, as they say"
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 06:53 AM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power On the Alignments and Positive, Negative Energy and Holy Power (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674607&postcount=558) by Blasphemous_R; More on the Prior Analysis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674704&postcount=559) by Blasphemous_R; Essay on Holy Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7690269&postcount=599) a theoretical basis for new Holy Powers; Some Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698634&postcount=617); Some More Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698646&postcount=618). 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith Compel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569800&postcount=242) 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199); Life Enhancement Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568774&postcount=225); Hallowed Humour (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7578004&postcount=305); Disrupt Undead Metabolism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587377&postcount=328); Ambidexterity (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588514&postcount=332); Force Corporeal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588600&postcount=334); Stardust Implant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606011&postcount=417); Stardust Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606020&postcount=418); Stardust Transformation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606034&postcount=419); Spark of the Hallowed Mind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7648263&postcount=467); Restore Fealty (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660247&postcount=503); Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7673478&postcount=537); Another Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7686906&postcount=588) . 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212). 12. Background Posts for Essay on Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite Some Thoughts on Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570846&postcount=270); Stuff About Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570864&postcount=271); Powers of the Holy Over Non-Corporeal Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576644&postcount=286); To Get Us Think About 'What' Undead Sinew is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576705&postcount=288); Some Thoughts About 'Anti-Necromancy' (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7577763&postcount=297); Comment on Biomancy & Biomantic Magic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587406&postcount=329) 13. Comedy Posts Necrotic Bloat Creepy Things with THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597239&postcount=377); Shrill Scream - The Mouise is In the House (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7656041&postcount=486).
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 07:16 AM	Psionic Transfiguration Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vibrant/Vegemite Level: Cleric ?, Wizard ? Components: V,S,F Casting Time: ? Range: Touch Effect: ? Target: One creature with a Fortitude Duration: ? Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes When this spell is cast, positive energy with the (Minor) Positive Dominant descriptor is channeled into the caster. She becomes incandescent with silvery-blue fires, burning like a miniature star. With an act of will, she then structures the magical fires, fortifying the raw Lore with a specific focus. The magical fires are imbued with a magical signature of a Psion. The caster than touches herself or the target, on the forehead, impelling the psychoactive postive energy directly into the brain of the living creature. The magical power goes to work immediately, modifying core brain structures in such a way so as to replicate the brain of a psion. Upon failed save, the target's mind is opened to the Lore of Psionics. All existent Class or Prestige Class skills, feats, BAB, spells, spell-like abilities and class-related supernatural powers are temporarily lost, and instead, the character becomes an active Psion of the same level. She must choose one of the Psionic classes, swap skills and feats and effectively, she becomes another class, all together, for the duration of the spell. DM Notes: It is strongly recommended that the DM has a set of templates available to simplify the use of the spell and limit the time-consuming nature of creating a whole new PC.
gabrion 11-17-05, 08:56 AM	I would guess the spell level for that should be 9th, and there should probably be an XP cost involved. This spell seems to imply some kind of direct conection between psionics and positive energy (or else it could just be a transmutation spell). Care to explain a bit more?
jagggar 11-17-05, 10:15 AM	Silimna stands, looking at Dyne. "It is a time of trouble. But when magical fires are used to interdict open communication between allies, there is something wrong. I have no problem with our allies keeping an eye on us, with open scrying. In fact, knowing my allies watch makes me feel reassured. I can only imagine there is something to be concerned about when an 'ally' uses magical explosions to block our supportive watch over you. I'm sorry, but my suspicion is aroused. Ashariana bears your emblem as well, and I remember her gaze when I was bound by metal and when the fetid breath of the Undead sought to take my will away and make me in their image. I don't trust you. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, I really do. My fears could be allayed, though, but I suspect you'll get angry with me for asking you to prove yourself. Once bitten twice shy, as they say" How now brown cow? Ashariana is part of the Stormhand Federation. Dyne is from the Knights Von Drache. Dyne's character is from the Knights Von Drache.
Demonfey 11-17-05, 11:57 AM	Or at least, this character he's made is from the Knights.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-17-05, 12:29 PM	Silimna stands, looking at Dyne. "It is a time of trouble. But when magical fires are used to interdict open communication between allies, there is something wrong. I have no problem with our allies keeping an eye on us, with open scrying. In fact, knowing my allies watch makes me feel reassured. I can only imagine there is something to be concerned about when an 'ally' uses magical explosions to block our supportive watch over you. I'm sorry, but my suspicion is aroused. Ashariana bears your emblem as well, and I remember her gaze when I was bound by metal and when the fetid breath of the Undead sought to take my will away and make me in their image. I don't trust you. I'm sorry if that sounds rude, I really do. My fears could be allayed, though, but I suspect you'll get angry with me for asking you to prove yourself. Once bitten twice shy, as they say" Ashariana is the queen of the stormhand federation, Arcanus is the leader of the Knights Von Drache. Two completely different things. In fact, Arcanus killed the original leader of the Stormhand federation. Since it seems you haven't been paying attention, Orcy will clarify... Knights Von Drache: Good guild dedicated to ridding the world of Tyranny and defending the people more than upholding laws. Stormhand Federation: Group that wants to 'unite' the world under their control. Seeking world domination. ((Also note, we are not allies. You refused the offer and treated the knights as if they were no good. The fires are a defensive object against all scrying. They defense doesn't care who it is thats trying to use a spell designed for spying on people, it just knows someone is.))
gabrion 11-17-05, 04:00 PM	((Also note, we are not allies. You refused the offer and treated the knights as if they were no good. The fires are a defensive object against all scrying. They defense doesn't care who it is thats trying to use a spell designed for spying on people, it just knows someone is.)) Not that I really care if you meta-game the Knights out of an alliance w/ the GoPG, could you perhaps show were Silimna "refused the offer and treated the knights as if they were no good" (unless you are refering to the very recent post, which would not explain your attitude before it. On a side note, do these defenses against scrying actually exist?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:04 PM	I would guess the spell level for that should be 9th, and there should probably be an XP cost involved. This spell seems to imply some kind of direct conection between psionics and positive energy (or else it could just be a transmutation spell). Care to explain a bit more? Hi there Gabe, good to see you. :) hmmm, Tenser's Transformation? Also, the nett gain in power is 0 with this spell. It transfigures energy. Does that change how you feel? regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:07 PM	Ashariana is the queen of the stormhand federation, Arcanus is the leader of the Knights Von Drache. Two completely different things. In fact, Arcanus killed the original leader of the Stormhand federation. Since it seems you haven't been paying attention, Orcy will clarify... Knights Von Drache: Good guild dedicated to ridding the world of Tyranny and defending the people more than upholding laws. Stormhand Federation: Group that wants to 'unite' the world under their control. Seeking world domination. ((Also note, we are not allies. You refused the offer and treated the knights as if they were no good. The fires are a defensive object against all scrying. They defense doesn't care who it is thats trying to use a spell designed for spying on people, it just knows someone is.)) It was enough for me to get suspicious because Dyne commented on Scrying. Sounds sus. About the scrying, OoC (I've said it IC) - sorry, but Silimna doesn't work that way. She needs and wants her friends to keep an eye on her and is reassured by being watched by friends, not alarmed. She's quite concerned about what can happen to allies when they can't be watched and won't allow themselves to be watched. Silimna is a very transparent person - to her allies - and she will not conceal from them. She's only covert with people she does not trust. Also - Sil was not rude to Arcanus. She showed eagerness and respect. stav
Demonfey 11-17-05, 04:09 PM	That's a change to a fighter or barbarian. Not someone who can make your mind turn into five kinds of mush without something large and heavy to bash it into said shape with.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:10 PM	How now brown cow? Ashariana is part of the Stormhand Federation. Dyne is from the Knights Von Drache. Dyne's character is from the Knights Von Drache. thanx jagggs - the character names, IC, might go nice on a summary list somewhere, if we don't already have one. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:11 PM	That's a change to a fighter or barbarian. Not someone who can make your mind turn into five kinds of mush without something large and heavy to bash it into said shape with. Yes, plus 2d4 to strength, dex and con. Modifies BAB - substantial. Doesn't change your feats and skills. Again, nett gain in power for this new spell is zero. That should be factored into power balancing formulae. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:18 PM	....but, a spell that modifies an existing class, and adds psionic power for a bit, to a PC, is another matter. I'm thinking about a spell series that give some temporary Powers to Clerics and Wizards. Sort of like adding a spell slot, but a psionic slot. stav
Demonfey 11-17-05, 04:24 PM	But then again, no sudden manifestations of powers, no ability to, with the right choice in power, fuse yourself and someone else into one being, and you realize Ashariana would benefit from this spell greatly... Anyway, this spell'd just mess with people's spell lists too much for any game runner to handle. Imagine this: first mage, then uses spell for cleric powers and spells, visits psionics for a spell, tries incarnum stuff, tries a combination, and returns to wizard at the end.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-17-05, 04:39 PM	It was enough for me to get suspicious because Dyne commented on Scrying. Sounds sus. About the scrying, OoC (I've said it IC) - sorry, but Silimna doesn't work that way. She needs and wants her friends to keep an eye on her and is reassured by being watched by friends, not alarmed. She's quite concerned about what can happen to allies when they can't be watched and won't allow themselves to be watched. Silimna is a very transparent person - to her allies - and she will not conceal from them. She's only covert with people she does not trust. Also - Sil was not rude to Arcanus. She showed eagerness and respect. stav The first thing Silimna did when the Knight entered was to warn people and say he might not be trustworthy. Orcy has been looking for that post, but its buried in far too many new spells for undead killing. While silimna may see being able to spy on any ally she wants as a good thing, Arcanus does not. He is a Knight, he believes in keeping secrets from his enemies. If he needs to prevent his allies from just watching him whenever they want as well, then that is what needs to be done. @Gabrion: Orcy has already said that he has not finished the KVD halls. He is still in the process of completing that (as well as the Temple's defenses for Sargatanas) and will be getting around to finishing his own hall's defenses as soon as possible, then it will 'exist' but speaking about things existing or not is kind of ironic here ;).
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:46 PM	But then again, no sudden manifestations of powers, no ability to, with the right choice in power, fuse yourself and someone else into one being, and you realize Ashariana would benefit from this spell greatly... Anyway, this spell'd just mess with people's spell lists too much for any game runner to handle. Imagine this: first mage, then uses spell for cleric powers and spells, visits psionics for a spell, tries incarnum stuff, tries a combination, and returns to wizard at the end. For me, it comes down to what you can do with Polymorph Other - a 4th level spell. That transfiguration lets you 'move around' power wise, in some ways, although it's been a long time since I read the spell. Your other arguments fall under that rubric as well. To the second bold - see my comments about the need for templates. It's a very hard spell to handle at the pragmatic level of game play. To your last line - that's why it's not a zero level or -1 level spell. The other way to go is to make it consume spell slots as you use Power Points. That would make it an even lower-level spell. But at that point, you have to look at realism - modifying the brain, realistically (in non-game balance terms) requires knowledge. That's why it could never be a 1st level spell or too low in level. more powers.....incoming
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-17-05, 04:53 PM	For me, it comes down to what you can do with Polymorph Other - a 4th level spell. That transfiguration lets you 'move around' power wise, in some ways, although it's been a long time since I read the spell. Your other arguments fall under that rubric as well. To the second bold - see my comments about the need for templates. It's a very hard spell to handle at the pragmatic level of game play. To your last line - that's why it's not a zero level or -1 level spell. The other way to go is to make it consume spell slots as you use Power Points. That would make it an even lower-level spell. But at that point, you have to look at realism - modifying the brain, realistically (in non-game balance terms) requires knowledge. That's why it could never be a 1st level spell or too low in level. more powers.....incoming Perhaps you should focus on finishing the Guild of Pure good before piling more spells and such into the thread? Orcy just doesn't think one good guild statted out when he finishes with the evil one's defeses (mmm... Glenn likes money) is that great an idea... Also, a spell that allows you to change spell lists in combat is VERY powerful. It allows one to adapt to any situation quite easily (and castrates the Mystic Theurge and other such classes).
gabrion 11-17-05, 04:54 PM	Hi there Gabe, good to see you. :) hmmm, Tenser's Transformation? Also, the nett gain in power is 0 with this spell. It transfigures energy. Does that change how you feel? regards stav Hmmm...well TT, or even Divine Power for clerics (which is actually a better spell at a lower level), seem to be a bit different than this for a number of reasons. First, there is a huge divergence between the power level of casters and melee types at high level, so granting someone the ability to "be a fighter," which btw TT does a poor job of, is much less useful than giving them the power of a full caster (or manifester rather). Even if it that weren't the case, the fact that TT makes someone into a crappy version of a fighter while this spell turns them into a psion with all the skills and feats they need to do a good job as such, makes it much more powerful. Really the power of this spell doesn't come from raw power, but from the born born of versatility in D+D. The whole point of character classes is that they are limited to opperating in one (or sometimes more) areas of expertise, and the fact that they each have their own weaknesses is what makes them balanced. This is the problem with Clerics and Druids in 3.5-since they can do pretty much anything, they are far overpowered compared to the rest of the classes. Of course I don't think I'm any kind of expert on spell creation though, so I have another suggestion. Stop over to the COB and post this spell, asking them if they think it is balanced as a 9th level spell w/out an XP cost. These guys are experts at identifying power levels, and I'll put 10:1 odds on them saying its a broken spell. PS, I think you might have skimmed over the question before, but is there a reason this spell isn't simply a transmution spell? What is the direct link to vegemite? @Orcy-Fair enough. You yourself have embraced the idea of playing a "flawed" (in a human imperfection sense), character, so I won't criticize IG actions that seem irrational.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:56 PM	Signature Scrying Divination Level: Cleric 4, Wizard 4 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: Special Target: Caster + 1 Extra Person per 3 Caster Levels Range: Unlimited Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes This spell modifies the Scrying spell by embedding a scry with a cognitive signature, that is attuned to an allies cognitive signature. That signature is a subtle interplay of alignment, character belief system, memory and attitudinal orientation. Before casting the spell, the characters who choose to become cognitively atuned must meet. A special ritual is then performed, which effectively takes a 'snapshot' of the each person's psyche and intertwined each person's cognitive signature into a mnemonic component of the spell. When, from that time forwards, the caster casts Signature Scrying the recipient of the Scry gets an incoming mental code, that is the cognitive signature so recorded in each person's mind involved with the spell. That signature allows open scrying between allied parties, granting re-assurance of fidelty and fealty in advance of a scry. If any member of the unified group undergoes an alignment shift, attitudinal change of a kind to threaten fealty, is affected by a mind-affecting spell (which modifies cognition, substantially) then, every person attuned immediately becomes aware of the disruption. A warning bell sounds in people's minds as the psychic link is severed to the person who has changed, or been changed.
Demonfey 11-17-05, 04:57 PM	For me, it comes down to what you can do with Polymorph Other - a 4th level spell. That transfiguration lets you 'move around' power wise, in some ways, although it's been a long time since I read the spell. Your other arguments fall under that rubric as well. To the second bold - see my comments about the need for templates. It's a very hard spell to handle at the pragmatic level of game play. To your last line - that's why it's not a zero level or -1 level spell. The other way to go is to make it consume spell slots as you use Power Points. That would make it an even lower-level spell. But at that point, you have to look at realism - modifying the brain, realistically (in non-game balance terms) requires knowledge. That's why it could never be a 1st level spell or too low in level. more powers.....incoming Polymorph can change you into a dragon, but you don't get the supernatural or spell like abilities of a dragon. That goes for anything else you turn into, really. You gain the physical abilities, but none of the metaphysical.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-17-05, 04:58 PM	Signature Scrying Divination Level: Cleric 4, Wizard 4 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: Special Target: Caster + 1 Extra Person per 3 Caster Levels Range: Unlimited Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes This spell modifies the Scrying spell by embedding a scry with a cognitive signature, that is attuned to an allies cognitive signature. That signature is a subtle interplay of alignment, character belief system, memory and attitudinal orientation. Before casting the spell, the characters who choose to become cognitively atuned must meet. A special ritual is then performed, which effectively takes a 'snapshot' of the each person's psyche and intertwined each person's cognitive signature into a mnemonic component of the spell. When, from that time forwards, the caster casts Signature Scrying the recipient of the Scry gets an incoming mental code, that is the cognitive signature so recorded in each person's mind involved with the spell. That signature allows open scrying between allied parties, granting re-assurance of fidelty and fealty in advance of a scry. If any member of the unified group undergoes an alignment shift, attitudinal change of a kind to threaten fealty, is affected by a mind-affecting spell (which modifies cognition, substantially) then, every person attuned immediately becomes aware of the disruption. A warning bell sounds in people's minds as the psychic link is severed to the person who has changed, or been changed. Don't take this the wrong way but... :rofl:
gabrion 11-17-05, 04:58 PM	Now that spell I like!
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 04:59 PM	Hmmm...well TT, or even Divine Power for clerics (which is actually a better spell at a lower level), seem to be a bit different than this for a number of reasons. First, there is a huge divergence between the power level of casters and melee types at high level, so granting someone the ability to "be a fighter," which btw TT does a poor job of, is much less useful than giving them the power of a full caster (or manifester rather). Even if it that weren't the case, the fact that TT makes someone into a crappy version of a fighter while this spell turns them into a psion with all the skills and feats they need to do a good job as such, makes it much more powerful. Really the power of this spell doesn't come from raw power, but from the born born of versatility in D+D. The whole point of character classes is that they are limited to opperating in one (or sometimes more) areas of expertise, and the fact that they each have their own weaknesses is what makes them balanced. This is the problem with Clerics and Druids in 3.5-since they can do pretty much anything, they are far overpowered compared to the rest of the classes. Of course I don't think I'm any kind of expert on spell creation though, so I have another suggestion. Stop over to the COB and post this spell, asking them if they think it is balanced as a 9th level spell w/out an XP cost. These guys are experts at identifying power levels, and I'll put 10:1 odds on them saying its a broken spell. PS, I think you might have skimmed over the question before, but is there a reason this spell isn't simply a transmution spell? What is the direct link to vegemite? @Orcy-Fair enough. You yourself have embraced the idea of playing a "flawed" (in a human imperfection sense), character, so I won't criticize IG actions that seem irrational. Tensers Transformation - it's a fantastic spell. 7.5 bonus Ability Point bonuses is no small thing, and it's set at 6th level. Again, Polymorph Other should be our benchmark, here. The question is how should we compare my spell to Polymorph Other? regards stav
Demonfey 11-17-05, 05:01 PM	See above post.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-17-05, 05:04 PM	Tensers Transformation - it's a fantastic spell. 7.5 bonus Ability Point bonuses is no small thing, and it's set at 6th level. Again, Polymorph Other should be our benchmark, here. The question is how should we compare my spell to Polymorph Other? regards stav Polymorph other effects the body alone. Changing what one's looks and strengths are. It can make you a big strong monster, but it does not give you the abilities of that big strong monster. You can polymorph into a beholder, but you won't gain it's eye rays. A red dragon won't give you fire breath. A mind flayer will grant you no ability to stun your opponents with a mental thrust. It changes you physically, not mentally. Your spell modifies the mind and gives the caster the ability to become a different caster alltogether. It is more powerful than polymorph by far and Orcy would say it would have a very VERY large amount of damage to the individual's mind with such a change. A wizard becoming a cleric would not work because the wizard has never been dedicated to a deity and prayed for their spells. Becoming psionic, the character's mind would simply not be able to handle all the power surging through it... Orcy doesn't just see problems mechanically, but with the flavor of the spell as well.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 05:04 PM	Polymorph can change you into a dragon, but you don't get the supernatural or spell like abilities of a dragon. That goes for anything else you turn into, really. You gain the physical abilities, but none of the metaphysical. good - now we're getting somewhere. No supernatural abilities and some limits on extraordinary abilities. The difference with my spell is that you aren't altering Hit Dice and does not confer any other things, from the new creature like poison, and other special attacks (grapple, bite, etc). Also, you can still cast your spells as a Wizard. The question comes down to what you do with the Wizard's powers, first, whilst modified and second, what power level for a) drain on Wizard resources (spell slots) as you use psionic powers versus b) no drain on Wizard resources. Regards stav
Demonfey 11-17-05, 05:09 PM	Oops, forgot about the HD. Those don't change either. In fact, they are a limiting factor in the spell. Also, you can only cast the spells you can cast with the limbs and vocal chords you have. A cat, for example, is limited to nonverbal, nonsomatic spells. There are feats to get around this, but few take them.
gabrion 11-17-05, 05:10 PM	Again, Polymorph Other should be our benchmark, here. The question is how should we compare my spell to Polymorph Other? regards stav Well you realize that Polymorph Other doesn't exist anymore right? ;) (Polymorph other and Polymorph self were just rolled into "Polymorph" in 3.5) I disagree that Polymorph is the best spell for comparison, but even if it is, this spell is much more powerful. From the offset I think such a comparison is a bad idea though, cause Polymorph is a very overpowered spell, especially if you allow it to work as put forth in RotG. As I said though, this spell is much more powerful than Polymorph. As DF pointed out, you only gain a very limited set of abilities from the polymorph spell, such as physical abilites, extraordinary attacks, movement, natural armor, etc. You can't get spells or spell-like abilities because the designers recognized this as too powerful. Another problem with this spell is that it actually makes the psion class pointless. The main limit for a manifester is the number of PP they have each day, which is a precious resources since they are so easy to blow through. Using this spell, a person can just turn into a psion, schism, overchannel, time-stop light, and metamorphosis with supernatural transformation into a choker, burning through PP at a rate of 150+ PP/round. Normally a psion would be afraid to use such tactics, but with your spell, why not go for it? If you run out of PP you can just cast the spell again!
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 05:10 PM	Now that spell I like! thanx. I like both. :) I've got more ideas .....incoming stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 05:17 PM	Well you realize that Polymorph Other doesn't exist anymore right? ;) (Polymorph other and Polymorph self were just rolled into "Polymorph" in 3.5) ya - I keep dragging up memories, inadvertently from older versions *chuckles* I disagree that Polymorph is the best spell for comparison, but even if it is, this spell is much more powerful. From the offset I think such a comparison is a bad idea though, cause Polymorph is a very overpowered spell, especially if you allow it to work as put forth in RotG. Gabe, respectfully, I disagree, okay :) I didn't say it was just like polymorph, I said that Polymorph helps us measure what to do with it. But, the new spell does not make psions redundant. That's like saying TT makes a fighter redundant. Cross-portability of powers in D&D is the norm, these days. It's not wierd or overpowered to transfigure the self into something else, with a spell, spell like ability or supernatural power. Another example is lycanthropy. Precedents that come to mind so far are Tensers Transformation Polymorph Lycanthropy Undead transfigurations There's a Psionics Feat that lets non-psions do some stuff Importation of spells, supernatural powers and spell-like abilities for non-Wizards with magic items. What we should be able to do, is pluralise methods of cross-class importation of powers. It's not a threat to game balance. We already let people grab the psionics feat, for example, as a way to nab some psionics, permanently (c.f. for the duration of my spell). Again, the core question is what do you do with Wizard spell slots when you run a Transfiguration Spell You can go two ways with that. One way will make the spell higher level (the path that doesn't eat wizard slots as you use Power Points). Even in that pathway, you can balance the spell in other ways. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-17-05, 05:21 PM	Oops, forgot about the HD. Those don't change either. In fact, they are a limiting factor in the spell. Also, you can only cast the spells you can cast with the limbs and vocal chords you have. A cat, for example, is limited to nonverbal, nonsomatic spells. There are feats to get around this, but few take them. *smiles* I keep falling into AD&D - anyhowz - the argument supports a view of equivalence, in some ways. The Transfiguration series don't grant you extra Hit Dice. You actually loose HP if you cast the spell as a Cleric, unless you go for the "fighter" equivalent in the psion series, which I think is d8 (the something Knife, it's called).
Demonfey 11-17-05, 05:25 PM	That's nearer to rogue. You want psychic warrior. Anyway, this spell, and making more like it, would pretty much negate too many classes. Also, an egoist could absorb other mages into him/her/itself, giving it the ability to use all of them at once. Also, on spells, the user of the transformation is in a mental state where all spells and powers are inaccessible.
gabrion 11-17-05, 05:25 PM	But, the new spell does not make psions redundant. That's like saying TT makes a fighter redundant. It's just not the same. One of the main differnces between caster types and fighter types is the fact that the latter have their power limited by a number of times/day system, while the former can do their thing all day long. Therefore, being able to turn yourself into a caster, with all of the power, multiple time /day makes caster redundent in a way that being able to "turn into a fighter" does not. To help you understand this a bit better, I would like you to answer this important question: How does this spell stack up to Mnemonic Enhancer? The answer is that it's on the scale of 15-20x more powerful.
Von Crown 11-17-05, 05:49 PM	*Ahem* I have to point out, this spell is redundant. There's already a spell that is the becoming psionic equivalent of TT. Mental Pinnacle Transmutation Level: Sorcerer/wizard 6 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round/level For a brief time, you achieve the mental dominance of a powerful psion, able to lash out at enemies using only the power of your mind. Your revel in your new mental powers to the point that you disdain using spells, even in the form of effects from magic items. You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Intelligence and Wisdom, 3 power points per caster level, and access to the following powers. * Mind Thrust A: Deal 1d10 damage. * Ego Whip A: Deal 1d4 Cha damage and daze for 1 round. * Psionic Blast A: Stun creatures in 30-ft. cone for 1 round. * Id Insinuation: Swift tendrils of thought disrupt and confuse your target. * Psychic Crush A: Brutally crush subject’s mental essence, reducing subject to -1 hit points. You manifest the powers as a psion of your caster level does, creating displays as described in each power’s description. You lose your spellcasting ability, including your ability to use spell activation or spell completion magic items, just as if those spells were no longer on your class list. For the duration of this spell, you use magic items and psionic items as if you were a psion with only the five powers given above on your class list. Any unspent power points dissipate when the spell ends. Material Component A potion of fox’s cunning, which you drink (its effect is overridden by the effect of this spell). If you were to make it a higher level, 1. I don't see it justified as a cleric spell, since the regular version is Sor/Wiz only 2. You should have a comparable material component, unless you don't make it as proportionally strong, and 3. It should really still be a transmutation spell, for at least the reason of a specialist wizards with transmutation forbidden not being able to dodge that restiction. The changes I'd make to it for a higher level- -Maybe a higher int/wis bonus -More powers (but either still have a standard list or make them have their own list they use every time they cast the spell) - Possiblly more power points (also, I'd consider limiting the number of PP/day, even with the regular version)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 04:00 AM	Thank you Von Crown, much more sensible. I appreciate the commentary. @reader suggesting that a time-limited spell obviates the presence of other classes, through the spell's use? Na, that's like saying that if I'm a doctor for 2 minutes of my life, because someone chucks a spell on me that we don't need doctors! We need doctors more than 2 minutes a day! Cross-class portability of powers is the norm in D&D. @Gabe the question you put requires that the spell I've written be interpreted through your idea of what I mean, not what I mean about what I mean, if that makes any sense. Using Mnemonic enhancement as analogy misses the point of what I'm doing. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 04:09 AM	@all Comment on Spell's Original Intention I've thought about this today. The point about it being very powerful to grant Psionic powers, over and above wizard spell casting is a fair one. The spell is not designed to extend your powers or to make you have more power by adding to your already existent D&D powers. It was designed to substitute power for power, and I said so a few times upstream. Then offered two models for embedding a game balancer into it. The idea was to explore those game balancing ideas, as Von Crown has more or less done. Comment on Balancing and the New Spell Two methods were initially proposed; The game-balancing method I've come up with wipes off one spell level for each power point you use as a Psionicist. That is, for using a Level 5 power, once, you must cross off a 5th level spell, for example; On a separate tangent, not addressed upstream my comments about Polymorphed creatures being able to cast their spells, while they assume the new form; The spell, as I've written it, with the balancing principle embedded in it, puts its power under Tenser's Transformation (which, does, indeed create you in the image of a true fighter, minus feats, bearing in mind that you get, on average, 7.5 ability points each time you use your spell. I also note, that you do not lose your spell casting power when the spell ends. Thus, you get to be a fighter, for a while, without sacrificing spell slots, upon return to your Wizard form). The spell I've written, with the balancer as described above, places it, somewher under Tenser's Transformation, and probably on par with Polymorph and certainly no higher than fifth level. A ninth level spell version of my spell, would grant you some Psionic Power, over and above what you have as a spellcaster, without causing a sacrifice in spell slots. I did not intend the spell to extend your power though. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 04:12 AM	Perhaps you should focus on finishing the Guild of Pure good before piling more spells and such into the thread? Orcy just doesn't think one good guild statted out when he finishes with the evil one's defeses (mmm... Glenn likes money) is that great an idea... Also, a spell that allows you to change spell lists in combat is VERY powerful. It allows one to adapt to any situation quite easily (and castrates the Mystic Theurge and other such classes). It's only powerful if you get the benefits of both spell lists, simultaneously. If you can't be a wizard while you are a psion, you're not over-reaching your class's limits. Shifting from rogue to assassin of the same level doesn't give you extra power. No more powerful than becoming a fighter if you are a wizard for a time (Tenser's Transformation). TT, by the way, by adding average of 7.5 ability points to your PC, takes you well beyond a 32 buy system of PC generation. Depending on what your Str, Dex and Con were when you cast the spell, you can be anywhere up to "40 to 60 Buy" or thereabouts. That's significant. About the GoPG, and what we do - thanx but we're good at what we do (pun intended). regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 04:15 AM	The first thing Silimna did when the Knight entered was to warn people and say he might not be trustworthy. Orcy has been looking for that post, but its buried in far too many new spells for undead killing. While silimna may see being able to spy on any ally she wants as a good thing, Arcanus does not. He is a Knight, he believes in keeping secrets from his enemies. If he needs to prevent his allies from just watching him whenever they want as well, then that is what needs to be done. My answer to this is in the bold face. only enemies keep secrets from one another, not allies. That's why I shut down negotiations. stav
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-18-05, 08:29 AM	My answer to this is in the bold face. only enemies keep secrets from one another, not allies. That's why I shut down negotiations. stav It is not always the best of ideas to tell your allies every one of your secrets. Should they ever turn on you or have other reasons to act against you, or should your enemies break them through torture. Or in this case, penetrate their mind through some sort of spell, then all your secrets are lost. Orcy is not a fan of scrying, he never has been. It is too much an invasion of privacy. You can shut down negotiations all you like, but keep in mind that allies are few and far between right now. No matter if you like the fact that scrying was denied or not, Arcanus is the best chance you have. Silimna's paranoia about not being able to spy on an ally is going to cost the GoPG when the time comes to fight. Now, to adress the spell you've created, Orcy's character Glenn could make a ring of this spell quite easily. Wearing it to make the effects permanent. Suddenly Glenn can put on a ring and become a caster class, blasting away with all the spells he likes before removing the ring. Then, placing it on again, he becomes another class perhaps.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 08:55 AM	It is not always the best of ideas to tell your allies every one of your secrets. Should they ever turn on you or have other reasons to act against you, or should your enemies break them through torture. Or in this case, penetrate their mind through some sort of spell, then all your secrets are lost. Orcy is not a fan of scrying, he never has been. It is too much an invasion of privacy. You can shut down negotiations all you like, but keep in mind that allies are few and far between right now. No matter if you like the fact that scrying was denied or not, Arcanus is the best chance you have. Silimna's paranoia about not being able to spy on an ally is going to cost the GoPG when the time comes to fight. Now, to adress the spell you've created, Orcy's character Glenn could make a ring of this spell quite easily. Wearing it to make the effects permanent. Suddenly Glenn can put on a ring and become a caster class, blasting away with all the spells he likes before removing the ring. Then, placing it on again, he becomes another class perhaps. Silimna is talking to her son, Varendil. The two sit in the open sunshine--they have the benevolent care of the Folk of Eilistraee and of The Winter Leaf with them. For deep in their bones they feel the Guardianship of her people, and equally she is a Guardian for her folk. It is not right to diminish those of lesser power by not heeding the things they love - in their own Divine Grace - Amen - to protect wherever I can. She and Varendil speak Varendil, in his honey baritones says but what must we do, when trust fails us? For without trust, how can we protect our People? Silimna rests her head on her hand for a moment, seeing the worry on her son's brow. "Ever you were, as a child, the first to encourage your elders to remember trust, when we fought amongst ourselves. It was not lost on us, my son, that in that you led your elders. For it was with the heart unburdened by bitterness that you spoke to us. It saved us from ruin. I believe the same hold true of your question then to me here." She pauses, seeing Varendil's face registering her words. He says "Then it seems to me that we must transcend the past, without forgetting how to trust at the same time." Silimna beams at her son. He looks outwards now, into your scrying portal, where, with trust you see all your people's works appear before you - as you record your own history here with us. His green gaze measured as he says "Just as by Tryst, thou art Scribe here with us. For our Fate, ye People of our World is only here by a Union of choice. We do not exist here without each other, but only with each other." Silimna says "Allies are known by care and Tryst. We can only share Signature Scrying while there is mutuality in the Gift - to both offer freely to the other, unguarded by fear. For an Ally is not one to fear. Amen - this is known in our Hearts."
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-18-05, 09:22 AM	Silimna is talking to her son, Varendil. The two sit in the open sunshine--they have the benevolent care of the Folk of Eilistraee and of The Winter Leaf with them. For deep in their bones they feel the Guardianship of her people, and equally she is a Guardian for her folk. It is not right to diminish those of lesser power by not heeding the things they love - in their own Divine Grace - Amen - to protect wherever I can. She and Varendil speak Varendil, in his honey baritones says but what must we do, when trust fails us? For without trust, how can we protect our People? Silimna rests her head on her hand for a moment, seeing the worry on her son's brow. "Ever you were, as a child, the first to encourage your elders to remember trust, when we fought amongst ourselves. It was not lost on us, my son, that in that you led your elders. For it was with the heart unburdened by bitterness that you spoke to us. It saved us from ruin. I believe the same hold true of your question then to me here." She pauses, seeing Varendil's face registering her words. He says "Then it seems to me that we must transcend the past, without forgetting how to trust at the same time." Silimna beams at her son. He looks outwards now, into your scrying portal, where, with trust you see all your people's works appear before you - as you record your own history here with us. His green gaze measured as he says "Just as by Tryst, thou art Scribe here with us. For our Fate, ye People of our World is only here by a Union of choice. We do not exist here without each other, but only with each other." Silimna says "Allies are known by care and Tryst. We can only share Signature Scrying while there is mutuality in the Gift - to both offer freely to the other, unguarded by fear. For an Ally is not one to fear. Amen - this is known in our Hearts." Note: Arcanus is not scrying on the GoPG, so this means absolutely nothing to him in character :P Arcanus doesn't intend to scry on the GoPG, so 'sharing' doesn't matter in scrying. It would be one way no matter how you look at it if you were allowed to Scry on Ghashmal Keep. If you really want to be able to scry on the Keep, you'll need to speak with Arcanus there, in character, and you'll need to walk in. Because theres some things in place that Silimna really won't like if she teleports.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-18-05, 02:17 PM	Aramel takes a second thought about having constructs around as guards, and also about the meeting going on, which he should probably attend. Turning to his brother he says, "I'm going to attend that meeting everyone has been talking about. Would you like to come along?" The druid agrees and the two of them walk out of the GoPG right behind Glen. Catching up with the fellow Aramel says, "Excuse me sir, but we are alos travelling to the meeting between the guilds. Would you mind us accompanying you there? If you have no better way of travel, my brother here could take us both there quite rapidly overland. I could teleport us, but I'm afraid I haven't seen the place before. I have also rethought your offer about constructing defensive forces. I assume that you can make creatures of all kinds. If this is the case, would you be able to contruct a gold dragon to help defend our territory? If so, how long would it be before it would be ready?" If Glen travels along with Aramel they can discuss prices and available creatures along the way. Oh my... Orcy must appologize for having missed this... Glenn looks toward the man with a grin and nods. He waves his hand dismissing the idea of being flown in and continues walking. "Ah, no worries about the flyin thing, I'm quite fine with walking. Does a body good and all that. Now, a gold dragon you say? Yes, I can build it, but only of roughly Juvenile age. It would take... lets see... about three days to complete. Of course, with my wonderful unseen crafters, I can have that worked on while I do various other things."
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 06:53 PM	Note: Arcanus is not scrying on the GoPG, so this means absolutely nothing to him in character :P Arcanus doesn't intend to scry on the GoPG, so 'sharing' doesn't matter in scrying. It would be one way no matter how you look at it if you were allowed to Scry on Ghashmal Keep. If you really want to be able to scry on the Keep, you'll need to speak with Arcanus there, in character, and you'll need to walk in. Because theres some things in place that Silimna really won't like if she teleports. She's not interested. If Arcanus is that paranoid of Silimna after everything she's done to help vulnerable or entrapped people, she doesn't want to be involved. The signature of our activities, towards any good being, or being in need tells its tale to any who have read. The rescue mission into RTG being an example. stav Silimna would review that position with clear evidence from Arcanus that he wishes her well and is not trying to one-up a "rival".
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 06:59 PM	Psionic Transfiguration Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vibrant/Vegemite Level: Cleric 4, Wizard 4 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: ? Range: Touch Effect: ? Target: One creature with a Fortitude Duration: ? Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes When this spell is cast, positive energy with the (Minor) Positive Dominant descriptor is channeled into the caster. She becomes incandescent with silvery-blue fires, burning like a miniature star. With an act of will, she then structures the magical fires, fortifying the raw Lore with a specific focus. The magical fires are imbued with a magical signature of a Psion. The caster than touches herself or the target, on the forehead, impelling the psychoactive postive energy directly into the brain of the living creature. The magical power goes to work immediately, modifying core brain structures in such a way so as to replicate the brain of a psion. Upon failed save, the target's mind is opened to the Lore of Psionics. All existent Class or Prestige Class skills, feats, BAB, spells, spell-like abilities and class-related supernatural powers are temporarily lost, and instead, the character becomes an active Psion of the same level. While so altered, any Power Points that she expends as a Psion must be used by sacrificing spell slots. For every Power Point expended, subtract one spell level, so, for example, if using a fifth level psionic power (that uses five Power Points) you must have one fifth level spell slot or above available for the exchange. She must choose one of the Psionic classes, swap skills and feats and effectively, she becomes another class, all together, for the duration of the spell. DM Notes: It is strongly recommended that the DM has a set of templates available to simplify the use of the spell and limit the time-consuming nature of creating a whole new PC.
Demonfey 11-18-05, 07:04 PM	Not really. I mean, if he allowed you to scry on him, all I'd have to do is catch Silimna and ask Ashariana for a favor. After all, I already have plans for invasion.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:09 PM	Not really. I mean, if he allowed you to scry on him, all I'd have to do is catch Silimna and ask Ashariana for a favor. After all, I already have plans for invasion. *smiles* spoken, truly like an Evil PC. :) when life is reduced to 'what ifs', there's nothing left but suffering. "What if" setting it up for Ashariana to do just that was part of our plan. There are no relationships without trust
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:12 PM	Not really. I mean, if he allowed you to scry on him, all I'd have to do is catch Silimna and ask Ashariana for a favor. After all, I already have plans for invasion. The Palantiri operated in this area we are currently discussing. The seven stones were placed strategically in Arnor and Gondor. Annuminas, Amon Sul, Emyn Beriad, Minas Anor, Osgiliath (where the Master Stone lived) Minas Ithil and Orthanc. The stones, were atuned to each other and effectively, the Kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor were fortified by their version of Signature Scrying. The exchange of surveillance data allowed the Kingdoms to endure, for millenia. When a stone fell into an enemy's hands, they had a problem. But Signature Scrying allows for auto-sever, unlike the Stones, when a problem emerges. stav Nations, Guilds and communities that do not have trusted allies and sharing of secrets, and who do not use communication and encoding to information share are vulnerable.
Demonfey 11-18-05, 07:13 PM	Or, on the other hand, I could just cut bits off until Silimna told us. And have Sargatanas put them back on when necessary. Or even have Valde (Rev's character) use a cyst on you. Don't forget that while my characters are amicable in non combat situations, you have never seen them in action and there haven't been prisoners.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:20 PM	Or, on the other hand, I could just cut bits off until Silimna told us. And have Sargatanas put them back on when necessary. Or even have Valde (Rev's character) use a cyst on you. Don't forget that while my characters are amicable in non combat situations, you have never seen them in action and there haven't been prisoners. Demonfey, if, by now, I didn't know your PCs were gruesome, barbaric and treacherous, capable of acts of great cruelty without a wink of an eye, and beings who, without the blink of an eye, will integrate vile abominations into their very flesh, like undead grafts and other things that require that living beings be ruined, wrecked, impaled, tortured, twisted, distorted and maimed, I really would be stupid. I'm not worried about that, as long as, secretly, you aren't one to nurse malice and to ruminate, hatefully, about your fellow gamers. Out of Game, the trust I show you, operates on the assumption that you mean, me, stav, well as a person. I couldn't play D&D with you unless I assumed that. If I found out that you hate, I'd have to rethink all that. But, I don't think you hate. In fact, I think you're actually a very kind man, in real life, and that's the only reason I'm going to 'war' with you In-Game. I'm counting on you not to get personal. In game, Good beings actually need for there to be truly horrible, evil people who don't give a :censored: about anyone but themselves. A truly Good D&D character can't kill or hurt anything unless that anything really is revolting, hateful, callous, corrupt and cruel. regards stav
Dyne 11-18-05, 07:22 PM	Trust is not given, it is earned bit by bit. By scrying on Ghashmal Keep, you violated our trust. Scrying isn't a communication device, it's a spying device, and spying is often considered an act of war. Ghashmal Keep took the first step by reaching out in friendship, asking for an alliance. It's your turn to take the next step, by accepting an alliance (and respecting our privacy). Or, at the very least, by opening communication/negotiation (and I don't mean by trying to spy on us again). Trust and alliances are two-part bargains. One side cannot do it all.
Demonfey 11-18-05, 07:22 PM	I don't hate anyone here. I just like plotting, and can afford to.
jagggar 11-18-05, 07:29 PM	A truly Good D&D character can't kill or hurt anything unless that anything really is revolting, hateful, callous, corrupt and cruel. You mean truly good characters have to be vegetarians?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:31 PM	Signature Scrying Divination Level: Cleric 4, Wizard 4 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: Special Target: Caster + 1 Extra Person per 3 Caster Levels Range: Unlimited Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes This spell modifies the Scrying spell by embedding a scry with a cognitive signature, that is attuned to an ally's or allies' cognitive signature(s). That signature is a subtle interplay of alignment, character belief system, memory and attitudinal orientation. Before casting the spell, the characters who choose to become cognitively atuned must meet. A special ritual is then performed, which effectively takes a 'snapshot' of each person's psyche and then intertwines each cognitive signature into a special mnemonic component of the spell. When, from that time forwards, the caster casts Signature Scrying the recipient of the Scry gets an incoming mental code. That code is the cognitive signature so recorded in each person's mind involved with the spell. The signature allows a character to identify a friend and allows for open scrying between allied parties, granting re-assurance of fidelty and fealty in advance of a scry. If any member of the unified group undergoes an alignment shift, attitudinal change of a kind to threaten fealty, is affected by a mind-affecting spell (which modifies cognition, substantially) then, every person attuned immediately becomes aware of the disruption. A warning bell sounds in people's minds as the psychic link is severed to the person who has changed, or been changed. Similarly, a person may voluntarily rescind (disengage) from the group of allies as they choose, with a Free Action. There is provision for requesting privacy with a Signature Scry. Privacy needs carry with them, cognitively speaking, a particular signature as well. A person who is craving solitude, or privacy, truly (because, for example, they are going on a date) will think, feel and act in peraticular ways. That "sub"-signature is also embedded into the spell, so that, a Scryer automatically knows when her friend needs some privacy. Should the matter be urgent, the Signature Scryer can attempt to proceed, but a Will Save is granted to the recipient. Just as privacy needs have a particular cognitive signature, so do urgency needs. Thus, when a Scryer, in an urgent place, needs help, the attuned recipient will automatically know that oh, oh, my friend's in trouble - they need to talk, urgently. The recipient can forego the Will Save, if they so choose, anytime.
gabrion 11-18-05, 07:32 PM	Oh my... Orcy must appologize for having missed this... Glenn looks toward the man with a grin and nods. He waves his hand dismissing the idea of being flown in and continues walking. "Ah, no worries about the flyin thing, I'm quite fine with walking. Does a body good and all that. Now, a gold dragon you say? Yes, I can build it, but only of roughly Juvenile age. It would take... lets see... about three days to complete. Of course, with my wonderful unseen crafters, I can have that worked on while I do various other things." Aramel discusses the prospect of making one of these dragon defenders with Glenn as they walk toward the FAIGGC. He tell the man that he would very much like to order one (or maybe a few?) of them for the GoPG, and gives Glen all the specifications. OOC:No problem about missing it...I don't expect everyone to read everything on the threads, especially since you did post an exit of sort with that character. Anyway, thanks for responding. The thing about details above means that I will eventually (probably in a week or so when I'm back on here), send you a PM with the exact specifications I'm looking for.
Demonfey 11-18-05, 07:32 PM	You mean truly good characters have to be vegetarians? Another reason I'm bad at playing good characters, then!
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:34 PM	Trust is not given, it is earned bit by bit. By scrying on Ghashmal Keep, you violated our trust. Scrying isn't a communication device, it's a spying device, and spying is often considered an act of war. Ghashmal Keep took the first step by reaching out in friendship, asking for an alliance. It's your turn to take the next step, by accepting an alliance (and respecting our privacy). Or, at the very least, by opening communication/negotiation (and I don't mean by trying to spy on us again). Trust and alliances are two-part bargains. One side cannot do it all. That's why I said "Silimna's actions" towards vulnerable, entrapped beings speak for themselves, as do her Vespers, prayers, and preparedness to assist any goodly being. And the "if by now" you can't trust Silimna..... You missed a rescue mission, where she went in outpowered five to one to save a friend. Trust is bestowed not just earned as well.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:36 PM	You mean truly good characters have to be vegetarians? only if the soy-products make meat substitutes that taste right.... :) hi jagggar
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:38 PM	Aramel discusses the prospect of making one of these dragon defenders with Glenn as they walk toward the FAIGGC. He tell the man that he would very much like to order one (or maybe a few?) of them for the GoPG, and gives Glen all the specifications. OOC:No problem about missing it...I don't expect everyone to read everything on the threads, especially since you did post an exit of sort with that character. Anyway, thanks for responding. The thing about details above means that I will eventually (probably in a week or so when I'm back on here), send you a PM with the exact specifications I'm looking for. OoC: as long as the items do what we need in battle and don't blow us up, instead :) Hi Gabe
gabrion 11-18-05, 07:42 PM	Why would Silimna need to go to Gashmal Keep in order to work on this alliance? As I understand it, she and Arcanus are at the conference right now, so if he really wanted to extend a hand he can just keep trying to form the alliance there. Really though, anyone who thinks Silimna's actions were an invasion of some kind are fooling themselves. On an unrelated note, I just wanted to let everyone know that I will not be posting on here very much for about a week or so. Tomorrow I'm going to watch The Game, and then I'm traveling home for thanksgiving, where I will have limited internet access. Just wanted to give a heads up.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:43 PM	Psionic Transfiguration Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vibrant/Vegemite Level: Cleric 4, Wizard 4 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: ? Range: Touch Effect: ? Target: One creature with a Fortitude Duration: ? Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes When this spell is cast, positive energy with the (Minor) Positive Dominant descriptor is channeled into the caster. She becomes incandescent with silvery-blue fires, burning like a miniature star. With an act of will, she then structures the magical fires, fortifying the raw Lore with a specific focus. The magical fires are imbued with a magical signature of a Psion. The caster than touches herself or the target, on the forehead, impelling the psychoactive postive energy directly into the brain of the living creature. The magical power goes to work immediately, modifying core brain structures in such a way so as to replicate the brain of a psion. Upon failed save, the target's mind is opened to the Lore of Psionics. All existent Class or Prestige Class skills, feats, BAB, spells, spell-like abilities and class-related supernatural powers are temporarily lost, and instead, the character becomes an active Psion of the same level. While so altered, any Power Points that she expends as a Psion must be used by sacrificing spell slots. For every Power Point expended, subtract one spell level, so, for example, if using a fifth level psionic power (that uses five Power Points) you must have one fifth level spell slot or above available for the exchange. She must choose one of the Psionic classes, swap skills and feats and effectively, she becomes another class, all together, for the duration of the spell. DM Notes: It is strongly recommended that the DM has a set of templates available to simplify the use of the spell and limit the time-consuming nature of creating a whole new PC.
Demonfey 11-18-05, 07:46 PM	Why would Silimna need to go to Gashmal Keep in order to work on this alliance? As I understand it, she and Arcanus are at the conference right now, so if he really wanted to extend a hand he can just keep trying to form the alliance there. Really though, anyone who thinks Silimna's actions were an invasion of some kind are fooling themselves. On an unrelated note, I just wanted to let everyone know that I will not be posting on here very much for about a week or so. Tomorrow I'm going to watch The Game, and then I'm traveling home for thanksgiving, where I will have limited internet access. Just wanted to give a heads up. That's a really good point, actually.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:49 PM	Why would Silimna need to go to Gashmal Keep in order to work on this alliance? As I understand it, she and Arcanus are at the conference right now, so if he really wanted to extend a hand he can just keep trying to form the alliance there. Really though, anyone who thinks Silimna's actions were an invasion of some kind are fooling themselves. um, Silimna thinks they're a bit privacy mad at the Keep, and can't understand them. She's worried they're a bit nutty and unpredictable, and that Arcanus is just as likely to get a hot, red face, every time she offers him Lembas, in good faith. Silimna's not going to beg Arcanus to like or trust her. But, she's quite happy for Arcanus to bestow trust upon her. She feels she has made the invitation and terms of Alliance clear (information sharing basis, with friendly, open lines, and no secrets between allies) and that she's prepared to look at it again, but, again, from a position of trust, not antagonism and mistrust. She feels that Signature Scrying with the Privacy and Urgency parameters in it, are more than enough for the job On an unrelated note, I just wanted to let everyone know that I will not be posting on here very much for about a week or so. Tomorrow I'm going to watch The Game, and then I'm traveling home for thanksgiving, where I will have limited internet access. Just wanted to give a heads up. I love your thanksgiving. I've promised myself, one day, I'll celebrate it with one of my friends in the USA. I have two friends I met in 1989, who live in Los Angelis. When I met them, they were a young couple, living on the West Side. I miss them terribly and usually not a week goes by that I don't think of them.
jagggar 11-18-05, 07:51 PM	That's why I said "Silimna's actions" towards vulnerable, entrapped beings speak for themselves, as do her Vespers, prayers, and preparedness to assist any goodly being. And the "if by now" you can't trust Silimna..... You missed a rescue mission, where she went in outpowered five to one to save a friend. Trust is bestowed not just earned as well. While actions speak louder than words, actions that you only know of eventually through contacts and rumor mills can't possibly speak that much louder. Besides, jagggar's saved quite a few orphans from beneath wagon wheels, but that doesn't mean she's good. (Especially when she takes those orphans and takes good care of them and trains them to become wonderful killing machines. :) ) The good aren't the only ones who can do good in the eyes of others.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 07:57 PM	While actions speak louder than words, actions that you only know of eventually through contacts and rumor mills can't possibly speak that much louder. Besides, jagggar's saved quite a few orphans from beneath wagon wheels, but that doesn't mean she's good. (Especially when she takes those orphans and takes good care of them and trains them to become wonderful killing machines. :) ) The good aren't the only ones who can do good in the eyes of others. You're nice-n-cheeky, aren't you :) Of course you're right. Neutrals - a good portion of their actions, do what you say. It's just that they're unreliable in a fight, sometimes, from a good person's point of view. Even Evils, sometimes or seldom. And Goods, sometimes or seldom do selfish, revolting things and have to make up for it. Again, life in our world is different. A "whole" person, Jung, for example, would say "owns their own shadow" (the parts of us that some might think of as yucky and all that or that recognises violence, has done mean things and all that. Jung would say that by owning your Shadow, you aren't its slave but you can use it to keep you safe, when someone is coming at you with their Shadow.....). stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 08:07 PM	Signature Scrying Divination Level: Cleric 4, Wizard 4 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: Special Target: Caster + 1 Extra Person per 3 Caster Levels Range: Unlimited Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes This spell modifies the Scrying spell by embedding a scry with a cognitive signature, that is attuned to an ally's or allies' cognitive signature(s). That signature is a subtle interplay of alignment, character belief system, memory and attitudinal orientation. Before casting the spell, the characters who choose to become cognitively atuned must meet. A special ritual is then performed, which effectively takes a 'snapshot' of each person's psyche and then intertwines each cognitive signature into a special mnemonic component of the spell. When, from that time forwards, the caster casts Signature Scrying the recipient of the Scry gets an incoming mental code. That code is the cognitive signature so recorded in each person's mind involved with the spell. The signature allows a character to identify a friend and allows for open scrying between allied parties, granting re-assurance of fidelty and fealty in advance of a scry. If the person being scried on so chooses, she can cast a Signature Scry herself and then, open, bi-lateral information sharing can occur between those parties. Likewise, all members of the Signature Scry can link up like this. If any member of the unified group undergoes an alignment shift, attitudinal change of a kind to threaten fealty, is affected by a mind-affecting spell (which modifies cognition, substantially) then, every person attuned immediately becomes aware of the disruption. A warning bell sounds in people's minds as the psychic link is severed to the person who has changed, or been changed. Similarly, a person may voluntarily rescind their link (disengage) to the group of allies as they choose, with a Free Action. There is provision for requesting privacy with a Signature Scry. Privacy needs carry with them, cognitively speaking, a particular signature as well. A person who is craving solitude, or privacy, truly (because, for example, they are going on a date) will think, feel and act in peraticular ways. That "sub"-signature is also embedded into the spell, so that, a Scryer automatically knows when her friend needs some privacy. Should the matter be urgent, the Signature Scryer can attempt to proceed, but a Will Save is granted to the recipient. Just as privacy needs have a particular cognitive signature, so do urgency needs. Thus, when a Scryer, in an urgent place, needs help, the attuned recipient will automatically know that oh, oh, my friend's in trouble - they need to talk, urgently. The recipient can forego the Will Save, if they so choose, anytime.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-05, 08:15 PM	Analysis of Privacy Standards in Signature Scry Unlike a normal Scry, Signature Scry has, embedded in it, the ethical principle called Informed Consent. The Atunement Ritual recognises that trust and a mutual preparedness to enter into open, information sharing is voluntary. Informed Consent has voluntariness at its core. Normal scrying, is an involuntary act imposed upon another (from the recipient's point of view), but the 'declarative' features of Signature Scry actually recognise ethical principles of Privacy in their formulation. To elaborate on what I mean by 'declarative', 'ethical' and 'voluntariness', this is because the recipient first knows who it is who is 'calling', second, gets a chance to block the call and 'not pick up the telephone because I need privacy' and also, the degree of 'urgency' in the caller is known to the recipient. Further, at any point in time, without a Save and as a Free Action, the Atunement can be undone.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-18-05, 11:19 PM	Alright.... much to adress it would seem. Arcanus does not trust spying spells. Scry is a spell designed to spy on ones enemies. It is not meant to be any type of communication device, it lets the caster watch what their enemies are doing. If Silimna needs to keep tabs on all of her allies at all times, then it is her who has a problem with trust. While Orcy has seen you mention that Arcanus isn't trusting enough, what about Silimna? You have stated that Silimna doesn't trust people who want privacy. That any secrets of any kind are completely unacceptable among allies. If you really believe that, Orcy wonders how far this guild will get... Arcanus will never allow a spell designed for spying to be used upon Ghashmal Keep. It is not a matter of mistrust, but that he does not want his privacy violated in such a manner. You spoke on selfishness and such in good characters happening 'sometimes or seldom,' Orcy would have to say this is one of those times. While Arcanus may not wish a spying spell to be used upon the Keep, he would still like to form an alliance. It is selfish for Silimna to want everything to go her way so that she may watch the Keep whenever she want's, because she doesn't trust them. The Knights may not be crusaders, but they are good. On another note 'silimna's deeds' do not scream 'I'm good' to Arcanus. They show recklessness more than anything. Attacking a group of evil beings in an attempt to free a prisoner she has never met makes Arcanus believe she is reckless and does not think actions through. If the battle had turned in Silimna's favor in some way, Drauguril could have been killed to ensure her mission didn't succede, even if it did mean the temporary loss of a servant (since Sargatans could always raise him as some sort of undead). Reckless attacks with a good intention are far different than actually doing good. As for prayers and such, Arcanus has seen none of these. Like Orcy said, he isn't spying on the GoPG.
jagggar 11-19-05, 02:53 PM	Again, life in our world is different. A "whole" person, Jung, for example, would say "owns their own shadow" (the parts of us that some might think of as yucky and all that or that recognises violence, has done mean things and all that. Jung would say that by owning your Shadow, you aren't its slave but you can use it to keep you safe, when someone is coming at you with their Shadow.....). stav *ears twitch* Shadow? :) Know of any semi-easy reads on it? Don't really recall it from my semester in high-school psych. Course, seemed kinda like you end up talking about how something related to Freud's ideas or it was in a totally different area as I remember it. Signature Scrying Slightly confused by it. Does Signature Scrying actually scry on people, or does it merely set up an alert system which says, "This person that you know and trust want's to check to see you're okay." when a target of the spell scrys another target of the spell? If it's the former, then I'd say it needs to be a higher level than normal scrying because it also has the built-in auto-detect alignment change and/or mind effecting magics. Don't particularly know about the latter. But I'd also say, it doesn't seem as though this spell should allow the scrying to happen through area defenses against scrying. What you guys need is a set of Mirrors of Communication (Dragon 327 pg68). 30,000 gp sound nice? (That's a set of 2. Additional mirrors cost extra.) They're pretty basic, show what the other mirror sees, and talking into it lets people on the other side hear your voice. (Possible drawback I feel I should mention, gaze attacks work through the mirror.) Back to alignment stuff. I've got what some might consider a problem when discussing alignment related topics. I don't believe real life is all as grey as some people make it out to be. I believe this world is black and white, of course with some greyish areas, but it seems so much grey-er because we have bad vision. We don't have spells which detect evil, or magical creatures that poof in and say "this is a true and holy path. follow it" to lead us. And then I bring in my set of glasses that helps me see the black and white more clearly into alignment discussions. Things that I might state or have a character do to be of a particular alignment, might not actually mesh with D&D's definitions of the alignments sometimes, but they fit my definitions.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-20-05, 06:46 PM	okay, thanx Alright.... much to adress it would seem. Arcanus does not trust spying spells. Scry is a spell designed to spy on ones enemies. It is not meant to be any type of communication device, it lets the caster watch what their enemies are doing. If Silimna needs to keep tabs on all of her allies at all times, then it is her who has a problem with trust. That's not what I mean. Whatever Scry was designed for, I've designed something else. And also, Scry has many uses, many of which have nothing to do with enemies and everything to do with friendship. In our campaign here, when I was going into jeopardy, our Cleric kept watch on me, and when I got in trouble he came to the rescue, in a timely fashion, by having the support of allies. That is, her uses of Scry are often trust-based. What you're saying is like saying that allies in war shouldn't communicate, freely, openly and with secure communicaiton lines. The saying a friend in need is a friend in deed is all about what I'm all about. They didn't send blasts of fire to their allies when an encoded Video Link pulsed an ally because of worries about privacy. The only reason people win wars is because allies share secrets, work together, innovate, openly information share and band together. While Orcy has seen you mention that Arcanus isn't trusting enough, what about Silimna? You have stated that Silimna doesn't trust people who want privacy. That any secrets of any kind are completely unacceptable among allies. If you really believe that, Orcy wonders how far this guild will get... again, it's all in my posts. What I have stated is certainly not "that Silimna doesn't trust people who want privacy" - Eilistraee's folk are very secretive people themselves. So, a gesture of trust from them, is a profound gift, given where they live, and what they've been through. They are escapees, pursued by violent bretheren who want them destroyed. Despite that, there's a dialogue upstream, between Silimna and her son, Varendil, that identifies the deliberate, hard work they Drow of Eilistraee constantly engage with, to ensure that they remember how to trust. There's a humane spirit and a generosity to the folk of Eilistraee that is cheapened by hurting them to make a point. I mentioned she was offended by being blasted by Arcanus with fires. Their gesture to an outisder, allowing them to communicate with them in bilateral, open scrying, is a very generous gesture one. They jeopardise their lives by the gesture. It's a bit concerning reading your reading of my work after the trouble I went to to explain what I'm trying to do. Signature Scrying is basically a secured communication line, that is freely and voluntrarily entered into by both parties and that respects privacy standards, well beyond the standards of Scry. To the same extent, in fact, as a telephone and answering machine do. The privacy standards are in my last post, and I've tried to be as clear as I can about them.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-20-05, 09:16 PM	okay, thanx That's not what I mean. Whatever Scry was designed for, I've designed something else. And also, Scry has many uses, many of which have nothing to do with enemies and everything to do with friendship. In our campaign here, when I was going into jeopardy, our Cleric kept watch on me, and when I got in trouble he came to the rescue, in a timely fashion, by having the support of allies. That is, her uses of Scry are often trust-based. What you're saying is like saying that allies in war shouldn't communicate, freely, openly and with secure communicaiton lines. The saying a friend in need is a friend in deed is all about what I'm all about. They didn't send blasts of fire to their allies when an encoded Video Link pulsed an ally because of worries about privacy. The only reason people win wars is because allies share secrets, work together, innovate, openly information share and band together. again, it's all in my posts. What I have stated is certainly not "that Silimna doesn't trust people who want privacy" - Eilistraee's folk are very secretive people themselves. So, a gesture of trust from them, is a profound gift, given where they live, and what they've been through. They are escapees, pursued by violent bretheren who want them destroyed. Despite that, there's a dialogue upstream, between Silimna and her son, Varendil, that identifies the deliberate, hard work they Drow of Eilistraee constantly engage with, to ensure that they remember how to trust. There's a humane spirit and a generosity to the folk of Eilistraee that is cheapened by hurting them to make a point. I mentioned she was offended by being blasted by Arcanus with fires. Their gesture to an outisder, allowing them to communicate with them in bilateral, open scrying, is a very generous gesture one. They jeopardise their lives by the gesture. It's a bit concerning reading your reading of my work after the trouble I went to to explain what I'm trying to do. Signature Scrying is basically a secured communication line, that is freely and voluntrarily entered into by both parties and that respects privacy standards, well beyond the standards of Scry. To the same extent, in fact, as a telephone and answering machine do. The privacy standards are in my last post, and I've tried to be as clear as I can about them. Once again, Arcanus did not attack Silimna. Silimna attempted to scry on Ghashmal Keep. As Arcanus sees scrying as a spying spell, if alone for the fact that you cannot hear someone through a Scrying spell. It is not made for long distance communication, that is what sending is for. Scrying simply lets you spy on others and watch what they are doing. Signature scrying does not exist. It has not been approved. It doesn't even matter in this argument because it was not signature scrying you used. The defenses are what attacked you, NOT Arcanus. If anyone, Silimna is at fault for attempting to scry on Ghashmal Keep without any questions about their defenses, and simply assuming that Ghashmal would let here watch their activities.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-20-05, 10:56 PM	Once again, Arcanus did not attack Silimna. Silimna attempted to scry on Ghashmal Keep. As Arcanus sees scrying as a spying spell, if alone for the fact that you cannot hear someone through a Scrying spell. It is not made for long distance communication, that is what sending is for. Scrying simply lets you spy on others and watch what they are doing. Signature scrying does not exist. It has not been approved. It doesn't even matter in this argument because it was not signature scrying you used. The defenses are what attacked you, NOT Arcanus. If anyone, Silimna is at fault for attempting to scry on Ghashmal Keep without any questions about their defenses, and simply assuming that Ghashmal would let here watch their activities. Orcy, you sent a rep to talk treaty. I won't have anymore discussions of blame, okay. So, Silimna opened up a telephone line. It's not feat of the imagination to use scry to hold up notes to one another. She was interacting with your Keep, after you sent a rep to us. So, she felt offended when she got blown up. She felt tricked. Sorry, as I said, Silimna smiles at Varendil - "methinks they're a bit strange at Ghasmal Keep, Varendil. It does not seem to me that Arcanus is sensitive to our needs. Neither does he understand how generous we were being by trying to talk to him. It has been many a year since we spoke to anyone on the surface about these things. Now I'm beginning to understand why. It is no great leap of the imagination to see how generous we have been...
jagggar 11-20-05, 11:15 PM	Well, I hit the reply button intending to weigh in with my opinion again (I've already done so on another topic). But really, that's not going to get anyone anywhere. So instead. . . Let's drop it. Both of you. If Arcanus and/or Silimna would really like to give it another try, they are both at the conference. Otherwise, well, it's amusing how well evil seems to work together so well when good is just about at each other's throats. I'll point to my skipped post which has an alternative to scrying for communication between allies.
Wilds 11-21-05, 12:07 AM	Ooooo, it was fun seeing good turn on good for once. It was ironic and strange at the same time
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-21-05, 01:03 AM	Orcy, you sent a rep to talk treaty. I won't have anymore discussions of blame, okay. So, Silimna opened up a telephone line. It's not feat of the imagination to use scry to hold up notes to one another. She was interacting with your Keep, after you sent a rep to us. So, she felt offended when she got blown up. She felt tricked. Sorry, as I said, Silimna smiles at Varendil - "methinks they're a bit strange at Ghasmal Keep, Varendil. It does not seem to me that Arcanus is sensitive to our needs. Neither does he understand how generous we were being by trying to talk to him. It has been many a year since we spoke to anyone on the surface about these things. Now I'm beginning to understand why. It is no great leap of the imagination to see how generous we have been... Orcy thought this was the guild of pure good, not the drow of whatever it is ;) So really the GoPG has indeed spoken to many people on the surface... as it is ON the surface. But very well, since we'll get nowhere with this constant arguing, lets drop it. Also... please do not ask for it to end then continue on with an rp post... it gets Orcy wanting to say more.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-21-05, 03:11 AM	Let's drop it. Both of you. i would like to work out my own things in my own way, jagggy, thank you. the discussion was never very problematic, between the sparring partners and was going to play itself out to extinction in a short while, in any case. some flexibility and breathing room to explore tensions between guilds must be okay, because we don't live in a perfect world. @all I'm interested in developing ways of managing strategy, communications and interactions between allied parties. What I don't want to see happen, is a good idea (Signature Scrying) shelved for the wrong reason, so, that spell, and others like it, if you have any ideas are welcomed. thanx stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-21-05, 03:13 AM	Orcy thought this was the guild of pure good, not the drow of whatever it is ;) So really the GoPG has indeed spoken to many people on the surface... as it is ON the surface. But very well, since we'll get nowhere with this constant arguing, lets drop it. Also... please do not ask for it to end then continue on with an rp post... it gets Orcy wanting to say more. to the bold face, sounds good. I'm not interested, really in changing what Silimna is. She's been explained, I think to a full enough degree that you know what you're getting with her and how to get on her good and bad side. to the rest - it's Drow-ish to the extent that Silimna and Varendil are of Eilistraee, but, of course, we're much more as well, because of the member list. thanx
Silmarien Aldalome 11-21-05, 03:45 AM	Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power On the Alignments and Positive, Negative Energy and Holy Power (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674607&postcount=558) by Blasphemous_R; More on the Prior Analysis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674704&postcount=559) by Blasphemous_R; Essay on Holy Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7690269&postcount=599) a theoretical basis for new Holy Powers; Some Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698634&postcount=617); Some More Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698646&postcount=618). 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith Compel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569800&postcount=242) 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199); Life Enhancement Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568774&postcount=225); Hallowed Humour (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7578004&postcount=305); Disrupt Undead Metabolism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587377&postcount=328); Ambidexterity (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588514&postcount=332); Force Corporeal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588600&postcount=334); Stardust Implant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606011&postcount=417); Stardust Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606020&postcount=418); Stardust Transformation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606034&postcount=419); Spark of the Hallowed Mind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7648263&postcount=467); Restore Fealty (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660247&postcount=503); Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7673478&postcount=537); Another Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7686906&postcount=588); Psionic Transfiguration (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7788926&postcount=764); Psionic Transfiguration - Comment on Balancing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7783996&postcount=740); Signature Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789078&postcount=769); Analysis of Privacy Standards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789128&postcount=770) & Signature Scrying. 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212). 12. Background Posts for Essay on Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite Some Thoughts on Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570846&postcount=270); Stuff About Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570864&postcount=271); Powers of the Holy Over Non-Corporeal Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576644&postcount=286); To Get Us Think About 'What' Undead Sinew is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576705&postcount=288); Some Thoughts About 'Anti-Necromancy' (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7577763&postcount=297); Comment on Biomancy & Biomantic Magic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587406&postcount=329) 13. Comedy Posts Necrotic Bloat Creepy Things with THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597239&postcount=377); Shrill Scream - The Mouise is In the House (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7656041&postcount=486).[/QUOTE]
Silmarien Aldalome 11-21-05, 03:51 AM	@all I'm interested in developing ways of managing strategy, communications and interactions between allied parties. What I don't want to see happen, is a good idea (Signature Scrying) shelved for the wrong reason - for example, to try to make a perfect world, straight up, without the dialogue in the lead in to improvements. I point out, at this point, that I've been able to develop some new ideas about Privacy Standards, from having had a discussion, here, and this is a good thing. Don't be shy to talk, but say what you need to say with respect for your audience, and the differences of opinion won't hurt us - they'll make us better people in the end. :) Shalom!
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-21-05, 08:14 AM	@all I'm interested in developing ways of managing strategy, communications and interactions between allied parties. What I don't want to see happen, is a good idea (Signature Scrying) shelved for the wrong reason - for example, to try to make a perfect world, straight up, without the dialogue in the lead in to improvements. I point out, at this point, that I've been able to develop some new ideas about Privacy Standards, from having had a discussion, here, and this is a good thing. Don't be shy to talk, but say what you need to say with respect for your audience, and the differences of opinion won't hurt us - they'll make us better people in the end. :) Shalom! The sending spell, as Orcy mentioned at some point or other, is designed for sending a message to another. An ally would be perfectly fine in this situation. The only drawback is you would have to limit your tendancy toward wordiness as it can only hold up to 25 words. ;) Of course, sending is best for emergency needs. Scrying would never work in such a way since it takes an hour to cast a scrying spell, and even then the target might not even notice that the scryer was there (no image on the scryee's end). Another good way to stay in contact would be the good old fashioned messenger. It saves a whole lot of magic from being wasted in spells that can really just have their use avoided by taking a walk. Of course if spells cannot be avoided, animal messenger is another good one on the topic of messengers. On a side note, you've been ignoring the goings on at the guild conference.
Demonfey 11-21-05, 11:32 AM	Or just have a telepath and a telepathic network between allies.
jagggar 11-21-05, 12:04 PM	She's been explained, And this is one of the reasons I felt the need to say stop. Don't we all remember one of the rules of good writing? Show, don't tell. So while you've both been saying "________ thinks this, ________ believes that," you've been wasting time you could spend posting IC posts which would provide in-game knowledge and actions for the other to react to. (While some say Internet communication lacks tone of voice and such, I believe there are other clues that can be picked up on. Personally, I felt the exchange was on the tense side.) The following comes from this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7793648&postcount=772) post that was missed during the banter. Slightly confused by it. Does Signature Scrying actually scry on people, or does it merely set up an alert system which says, "This person that you know and trust want's to check to see you're okay." when a target of the spell scrys another target of the spell? If it's the former, then I'd say it needs to be a higher level than normal scrying because it also has the built-in auto-detect alignment change and/or mind effecting magics. Don't particularly know about the latter. But I'd also say, it doesn't seem as though this spell should allow the scrying to happen through area defenses against scrying. What you guys need is a set of Mirrors of Communication (Dragon 327 pg68). 30,000 gp sound nice? (That's a set of 2. Additional mirrors cost extra.) They're pretty basic, show what the other mirror sees, and talking into it lets people on the other side hear your voice. (Possible drawback I feel I should mention, gaze attacks work through the mirror.)
Demonfey 11-21-05, 12:08 PM	I like the sound of this mirror. If you know of any other items that are useful like that in Dragon, could you please post them at the GoUE? Thanks.
Demonfey 11-21-05, 12:11 PM	...Otherwise, well, it's amusing how well evil seems to work together so well when good is just about at each other's throats. That's because most evil characters are or were GoUE members at some point in the past.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-21-05, 04:29 PM	And this is one of the reasons I felt the need to say stop. thanks, but I want to take care of it myself, and with my colleagues. It may well have been a bit on the 'tense' side. However, it was nigh extinction and we were in the middle of a rapprochment, en-route to discovering opinion variations and then building. It's from differences of opinion that discovery is borne. @Orcy Sending, yes, is one of several options, and should be used. @all My concern is that shinanigans can go on, at a Keep, and without an Early Warning system, allies could get picked off one by one. The melee at the RTG is an example, where three rounds makes the difference between life and death. What I'm thinking about, is a "one-round" turnaround time, (which good surveillance yields) or better - pre-emptive knowledge of a strike, in order to cut it off at the knees, as it were. Divinations are good for that. @Demonfey The concept of the Telepathic Network is a very good one, and indeed, should be built upon. @all so, thus far, we've got three ideas to work with: Signature Scrying, Sending, Telepathic concepts, and the fourth, undefined, Divinations. Lemme rest on this, and see what comes up in the old grey matter. regards stav
gabrion 11-21-05, 08:19 PM	Well actually we have another option as well...the mirrors proposed by jagggar, which would solve all of the problems you put forth, I think. BTW, I've found out that I do have internet back home, so I will be able to post some this week. Sadly I've been spoiled by high-speed internet though, so I'm not sure how well I will be able to put up with dial-up. Anyway, I'm working on GoPG defenses, so I'll keep that updated. I'm thinking that along with the spell defenses and what not, we could have some portals (from FRCS) that lead to other places, so if the GoPG were to be overrun, we could retreat through them. Thoughts?
Aramar the Black 11-21-05, 09:40 PM	Sadly I've been spoiled by high-speed internet though, so I'm not sure how well I will be able to put up with dial-up. I can say from experience, you will probably go crazy waiting for it to load. At least at first.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-22-05, 01:37 AM	hey gabe, good to see ya - will get to the PM, after dinner and after I rest. Well actually we have another option as well...the mirrors proposed by jagggar, which would solve all of the problems you put forth, I think. I'm thinking that along with the spell defenses and what not, we could have some portals (from FRCS) that lead to other places, so if the GoPG were to be overrun, we could retreat through them. Thoughts? About mirrors, sounds "stephen-donaldson-esque" the Mirror of Her Dreams - and we must look at it closely. After I eat, I'll be back to cut some magic that speaks to that area, and continue discussions. I also think the Portal (FRCS) concept is good - um, we should not say too much about it, here, but we need to cut some ideas for that as well..... @Aramar, hello there! :) stav
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-22-05, 02:34 AM	Sil, the problem with all these new spells you are posting is that they all need to be approved the the GMs. Otherwise they cannot be used or even placed on a spell list. So currently, ideas involving them really aren't the best line to be following. Orcy would prefer to come up with something without having to go out and create something new and then wait for the approval.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-22-05, 03:13 AM	Sil, the problem with all these new spells you are posting is that they all need to be approved the the GMs. Otherwise they cannot be used or even placed on a spell list. So currently, ideas involving them really aren't the best line to be following. Orcy would prefer to come up with something without having to go out and create something new and then wait for the approval. Orcy, I hope I don't sound rude, but I do know what you mean - I have posted to the materials for review thread, in the past. You should know of me by now, that I'm big on innovation and research and dev. I'm just encouraging us all to 'go on a journey of discovery'. When the time is right, we'll post a selection of materials to the materials for review thread. It might also help if you took the word "problem" out of the wording. :) Regards stav
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-22-05, 03:55 AM	Orcy, I hope I don't sound rude, but I do know what you mean - I have posted to the materials for review thread, in the past. You should know of me by now, that I'm big on innovation and research and dev. I'm just encouraging us all to 'go on a journey of discovery'. When the time is right, we'll post a selection of materials to the materials for review thread. It might also help if you took the word "problem" out of the wording. :) Regards stav Yes... Orcy is well aware of your 'development loving spirit' and he means no offense, but it often holds things up. When a simple answer can be found instead of making something new and going through a process of working things out to just 'do it quicker' and ultimately taking more time... Orcy would just go with the simple answer.
jagggar 11-22-05, 10:56 AM	And at the rate jagggar's getting her questions about the spell answered, it definately won't be approved anytime soon.
gabrion 11-22-05, 11:01 AM	And at the rate jagggar's getting her questions about the spell answered, it definately won't be approved anytime soon. Which, if I might be so bold as to say, might be a sign of a problem on both sides.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-22-05, 06:20 PM	Yes... Orcy is well aware of your 'development loving spirit' and he means no offense, but it often holds things up. When a simple answer can be found instead of making something new and going through a process of working things out to just 'do it quicker' and ultimately taking more time... Orcy would just go with the simple answer. two things here first, I don't regulate what other guilds do in the IFG, so, it's not for me to be targeted for a pace, around this joint. You've said three times now, get cracking stav. @ll second, to be honest, between IG conflicts, one needs to rest. After the last one, at the RTG, I was actually quite emotionally exhausted, and I think there would be others who felt the same. So, I like to build up with a long-grind, good and slow, enjoying every Edelweis flower on the way, stopping to look at the view, sharing Lembas, Miruvor, and even having a mild sparring competition with old colleagues along the way as well. If you would like to speed things up, then, you need to not leave all product, strategy and concept posts to me. Gabrion has been busy planning floors, buildings and writing to me, so, you can all do the same if you like. If you leave it to me to get an e-mail list going for the big conflict, coming, between GoUE and GoPG, then, I'm going to work at the pace I'm comfortable at. and then take you by surprise
Silmarien Aldalome 11-22-05, 06:32 PM	....ps, I'm home today, all day, working on a report, not due for weeks, and I'm well into it. So, if youz need to catch up, please post stuff, and we can begin to do some of the get cracking work. @jagggar I apologise if you feel like you've been ignored, I was focussing on the orcy-stav stuff in your posts, but have some space, now to look at your other suggestions, since we've all put new perspective on it. Please re-post the post you mean, and I promise to work on it, right away :) stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-25-05, 11:10 PM	Signature Scrying Divination Level: Cleric 4, Wizard 4 Components: V,S,F Casting Time: Special Target: Caster + 1 Extra Person per 3 Caster Levels Range: Unlimited Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes This spell modifies the Scrying spell by embedding a scry with a cognitive signature, that is attuned to an ally's or allies' cognitive signature(s). That signature is a subtle interplay of alignment, character belief system, memory and attitudinal orientation. Before casting the spell, the characters who choose to become cognitively atuned must meet. A special ritual is then performed, which effectively takes a 'snapshot' of each person's psyche and then intertwines each cognitive signature into a special mnemonic component of the spell. When, from that time forwards, the caster casts Signature Scrying the recipient of the Scry gets an incoming mental code. That code is the cognitive signature so recorded in each person's mind involved with the spell. The signature allows a character to identify a friend and allows for open scrying between allied parties, granting re-assurance of fidelty and fealty in advance of a scry. If the person being scried on so chooses, she can cast a Signature Scry herself and then, open, bi-lateral information sharing can occur between those parties. Likewise, all members of the Signature Scry can link up like this. If any member of the unified group undergoes an alignment shift, attitudinal change of a kind to threaten fealty, is affected by a mind-affecting spell (which modifies cognition, substantially) then, every person attuned immediately becomes aware of the disruption. A warning bell sounds in people's minds as the psychic link is severed to the person who has changed, or been changed. Similarly, a person may voluntarily rescind their link (disengage) to the group of allies as they choose, with a Free Action. There is provision for requesting privacy with a Signature Scry. Privacy needs carry with them, cognitively speaking, a particular signature as well. A person who is craving solitude, or privacy, truly (because, for example, they are going on a date) will think, feel and act in peraticular ways. That "sub"-signature is also embedded into the spell, so that, a Scryer automatically knows when her friend needs some privacy. Should the matter be urgent, the Signature Scryer can attempt to proceed, but a Will Save is granted to the recipient. Just as privacy needs have a particular cognitive signature, so do urgency needs. Thus, when a Scryer, in an urgent place, needs help, the attuned recipient will automatically know that oh, oh, my friend's in trouble - they need to talk, urgently. The recipient can forego the Will Save, if they so choose, anytime. @jagggar your questions are answered in the bold face. It's Scry plus "id checking", and the spell level is one higher for the id-checking component. Scry, so modified by this model, converts Scry into a trust-based version of the spell for defensive, not offensive use amongst friends not enemies Signature Scry is of absolutely no advantage to the caster, seeking information about an Enemy. stav
gabrion 11-25-05, 11:20 PM	To be honest, I don't think this spell needs to be a higher level than scry. The Id checking component is an addition, but as Sil points out, the spell is considerably weaker since it cannot be used in an offensive manner. Spells that depend on cooperation to work are usually considered lower on the power scale than ones that need no such cooperation. For that reason I would recommend lowering the level by one.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-25-05, 11:45 PM	*sighs in relief* Hi there Gabe, good to see you. That's a reasonable argument, there. I'm not uncomfortable with where you've gone with it. The "auto-detect" of an ally's 'cognitive state', might justify adding a level (that's the bit in the spell that let's an ally know if a friend's brain has been tampered with). (I'm developing a new spell, right as we speak.....it's the 'mirror image' of Signature Scry). regards stav
Demonfey 11-25-05, 11:49 PM	Still, only useful for those that rely on scrying.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-26-05, 12:00 AM	Signature Messenging Divination Level: Cleric 4, Wizard 4 Components: V,S,M Casting Time: Special Target: Caster + 1 Extra Person per 3 Caster Levels Range: Unlimited Duration: 1 Round/Level Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes For many reasons, and especially in times of war, and especially when allies are outnumbered, a means of remote communication, reconnaisance and dissemination of intelligence data is of vital importance. Signature Messenging is devised, just for this purpose. This spell embeds a communication with a cognitive signature, that is attuned to an ally's or allies' cognitive signature(s). Just like Signature Scry, that signature is a subtle interplay of alignment, character belief system, memory and attitudinal orientation. Before casting the spell, the characters who choose to become cognitively atuned must meet. A special ritual is then performed, which effectively takes a 'snapshot' of each person's psyche and then intertwines each cognitive signature into a special mnemonic component of the spell. When, from that time forwards, the caster casts Signature Messenging, the recipient of the spell gets an incoming mental code. That code is the cognitive signature so recorded in each person's mind involved with the spell. The spell then opens up what is essentially a 'video and audio link' between allied parties, allowing for dialogue and information sharing. The Spell Caster uses a system of Mirrors to achieve the visual link, and the 'audio' link is actually telepathically shared thoughts. If any member of the unified group undergoes an alignment shift, attitudinal change of a kind to threaten fealty, is affected by a mind-affecting spell (which modifies cognition, substantially) then, every person attuned immediately becomes aware of the disruption. A warning bell sounds in people's minds as the psychic link is severed to the person who has changed, or been changed. Similarly, a person may voluntarily rescind their link (disengage) to the group of allies as they choose, with a Free Action. The caster needs one mirror (of 1000 GP) for each cognitively atuned partner.
gabrion 11-27-05, 01:41 AM	Aramel returns from the FAIGGC with the firm belief that such a gathering was folly to attend int he first place. He learned better what he already knew about Sargatanas-that he was an evil crazed man-and he was unable to settle the dispute between the leader of his guild and the Knights. Trying to put all that aside, he turned toward the task of preparing the guild defenses. "Silimna, if you can hear me, I'm looking for your permission to oversee the construction of defenses for this place. I myself know little about such things, but my brother has seen this done before and he will make all the necessary arrangements if you consent."
Demonfey 11-27-05, 01:51 AM	Also ask for permission to declare territory, please. It's getting ridiculous, now.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-28-05, 12:13 AM	Just wanted to repost our achievements. Well done everyone - the product speaks for itself. Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power On the Alignments and Positive, Negative Energy and Holy Power (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674607&postcount=558) by Blasphemous_R; More on the Prior Analysis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674704&postcount=559) by Blasphemous_R; Essay on Holy Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7690269&postcount=599) a theoretical basis for new Holy Powers; Some Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698634&postcount=617); Some More Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698646&postcount=618). 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith Compel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569800&postcount=242) 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199); Life Enhancement Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568774&postcount=225); Hallowed Humour (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7578004&postcount=305); Disrupt Undead Metabolism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587377&postcount=328); Ambidexterity (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588514&postcount=332); Force Corporeal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588600&postcount=334); Stardust Implant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606011&postcount=417); Stardust Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606020&postcount=418); Stardust Transformation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606034&postcount=419); Spark of the Hallowed Mind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7648263&postcount=467); Restore Fealty (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660247&postcount=503); Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7673478&postcount=537); Another Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7686906&postcount=588); Psionic Transfiguration (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7788926&postcount=764); Psionic Transfiguration - Comment on Balancing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7783996&postcount=740); Signature Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789078&postcount=769); Analysis of Privacy Standards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789128&postcount=770) & Signature Scrying. 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212). 12. Background Posts for Essay on Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite Some Thoughts on Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570846&postcount=270); Stuff About Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570864&postcount=271); Powers of the Holy Over Non-Corporeal Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576644&postcount=286); To Get Us Think About 'What' Undead Sinew is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576705&postcount=288); Some Thoughts About 'Anti-Necromancy' (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7577763&postcount=297); Comment on Biomancy & Biomantic Magic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587406&postcount=329) 13. Comedy Posts Necrotic Bloat Creepy Things with THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597239&postcount=377); Shrill Scream - The Mouise is In the House (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7656041&postcount=486).
Silmarien Aldalome 11-28-05, 12:14 AM	Aramel returns from the FAIGGC with the firm belief that such a gathering was folly to attend int he first place. He learned better what he already knew about Sargatanas-that he was an evil crazed man-and he was unable to settle the dispute between the leader of his guild and the Knights. Trying to put all that aside, he turned toward the task of preparing the guild defenses. "Silimna, if you can hear me, I'm looking for your permission to oversee the construction of defenses for this place. I myself know little about such things, but my brother has seen this done before and he will make all the necessary arrangements if you consent." OoC would love to see your ideas. But, could you hold off, until you have a look at the PM on this that I have. regards stav
Demonfey 11-28-05, 12:14 AM	Since it seems like the right thing to do, I am having Crowley submit ultimatums concerning Silimna, mainly if they find her, they are to inform him and follow her.
Wilds 11-28-05, 12:26 AM	Have any of those spells been approved? Or anything new there in general been approved?
Demonfey 11-28-05, 12:26 AM	Far as I know, none of them have been approved at all.
Wilds 11-28-05, 12:28 AM	Excellent....
Silmarien Aldalome 11-28-05, 12:31 AM	Hi there, I'll say, again now that we're going to package up a selection of our work to be reviewed at the Materials for Review thread. @all In the meantime, we're an R&D unit as well as an outpost in Tyranor. We had a discussion, while back, about possibly making more threads with goodly things as their focus, though. regards stav
Demonfey 11-28-05, 12:58 AM	Good. Now I won't have to raze the land.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-28-05, 12:58 AM	And, again, top of page, and bottom of page - evidence of our achievements. Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power On the Alignments and Positive, Negative Energy and Holy Power (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674607&postcount=558) by Blasphemous_R; More on the Prior Analysis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674704&postcount=559) by Blasphemous_R; Essay on Holy Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7690269&postcount=599) a theoretical basis for new Holy Powers; Some Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698634&postcount=617); Some More Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698646&postcount=618). 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith Compel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569800&postcount=242) 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199); Life Enhancement Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568774&postcount=225); Hallowed Humour (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7578004&postcount=305); Disrupt Undead Metabolism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587377&postcount=328); Ambidexterity (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588514&postcount=332); Force Corporeal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588600&postcount=334); Stardust Implant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606011&postcount=417); Stardust Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606020&postcount=418); Stardust Transformation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606034&postcount=419); Spark of the Hallowed Mind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7648263&postcount=467); Restore Fealty (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660247&postcount=503); Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7673478&postcount=537); Another Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7686906&postcount=588); Psionic Transfiguration (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7788926&postcount=764); Psionic Transfiguration - Comment on Balancing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7783996&postcount=740); Signature Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789078&postcount=769); Analysis of Privacy Standards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789128&postcount=770) & Signature Scrying; Signature Messenging (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7842815&postcount=803); Ally's Summons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7878135&postcount=826). 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212). 12. Background Posts for Essay on Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite Some Thoughts on Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570846&postcount=270); Stuff About Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570864&postcount=271); Powers of the Holy Over Non-Corporeal Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576644&postcount=286); To Get Us Think About 'What' Undead Sinew is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576705&postcount=288); Some Thoughts About 'Anti-Necromancy' (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7577763&postcount=297); Comment on Biomancy & Biomantic Magic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587406&postcount=329) 13. Comedy Posts Necrotic Bloat Creepy Things with THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597239&postcount=377); Shrill Scream - The Mouise is In the House (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7656041&postcount=486).
Silmarien Aldalome 11-28-05, 01:00 AM	Good. Now I won't have to raze the land. You should see the fruits of our labour, here, soon enough :) take care, DF, gotta go, for now. Thanx for your time. stav
Ashariana 11-28-05, 01:01 AM	You should see the fruits of our labour, here, soon enough :) take care, DF, gotta go, for now. Thanx for your time. stav The fruits of your labor won't exist until the GM's say it does... so uhm... unless they've given you the go, it won't be that soon ;)
Wilds 11-28-05, 01:12 AM	if half those get approved im gana run off a cliff, but not before I make several fun spells to counter them
gabrion 11-28-05, 02:19 AM	Aramel enters the GoPG to make an announcement. "While you all have been very kind to me here, my god has urged me to create a new home for myself where I can better pursue his will. Of course I will still come by to visit you all from time to time, and I invite you to visit the Halls of Refuge when you have an opportunity. Knowing that the members of this guild are of good heart and are working for the light in Tyrannor, I hope my new guild will be a strong ally in the comming storm." With that, the old man takes his leave to go work on his new home.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-28-05, 02:47 AM	The fruits of your labor won't exist until the GM's say it does... so uhm... unless they've given you the go, it won't be that soon ;) Can I just say here, that it's about the process of creation, not the outcome. If or when GM approval is versus isn't pending, at the end of the day It doesn't matter. The labour is the joy and the building of the work. stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-28-05, 02:49 AM	Aramel enters the GoPG to make an announcement. "While you all have been very kind to me here, my god has urged me to create a new home for myself where I can better pursue his will. Of course I will still come by to visit you all from time to time, and I invite you to visit the Halls of Refuge when you have an opportunity. Knowing that the members of this guild are of good heart and are working for the light in Tyrannor, I hope my new guild will be a strong ally in the comming storm." With that, the old man takes his leave to go work on his new home. That's what I want to see. It will be good to see what you come up with. This place needs way more than one guild to represent good - we've been needing to do this for a while. Silimna looks pleased. She brings Lembas and Miruvor, and summons her family, calling folk nearby to come and listen. "One of our people seeks to expand the cause of good. We will, of course, show every courtesy for the work, and we will, of course, see that our shield of protection extends to all Goodly folk. With more of our handy work in the region, we will have more options for the defence of the lands. It is a good day of tidings."
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-28-05, 02:58 AM	That's what I want to see. It will be good to see what you come up with. This place needs way more than one guild to represent good - we've been needing to do this for a while. Silimna looks pleased. She brings Lembas and Miruvor, and summons her family, calling folk nearby to come and listen. "One of our people seeks to expand the cause of good. We will, of course, show every courtesy for the work, and we will, of course, see that our shield of protection extends to all Goodly folk. With more of our handy work in the region, we will have more options for the defence of the lands. It is a good day of tidings." *clears throat and points toward the keep descreetly* ;)
Dyne 11-28-05, 07:22 PM	*clears throat and points toward the keep descreetly* ;) Now if you dont mind me i am going to go back to eating my baby seal sandwich.....mmmmmmmmm baby seal :drool: (Kudos to Twin1)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-30-05, 03:50 AM	Hi everyone, I've noticed the work at Metathread and continuing output of new feats, product and rules. Well done on your products. We're not to be thought of as different, this thread. I'll be brief, next bit. To respect you, and so that you know what does and doesn't work I'm going to report any posts that: level blame at people for their posting rates. It's okay to ask nicely how fast or slow one works, or to nicely ask what someone's up to, or to even ask them nicely if they can finsish something, but beyond that - ; level blame for building or making product. It's okay to comment nicely, and constructively about a piece of work's strengths and weaknesses. It's important to hear why something needs to be revised, but beyind that - ; level blame for not posting somewhere or for posting somewhere. It's okay to request a post or three on a thread, and all that, but beyond that - ; level blame for posting or not posting IC; and for posting or not posting OoC. It's okay to ask nicely for a reply or to interact in either mode! OoC and IC are good - both - because posts that do the above bait. I just wanted to be fair to you. It wouldn't be very nice if you didn't know what hit you, if something should happen. I haven't reported anyone yet, about it. Sorry for your discomfort. I wish I had another way of handling this, but that's the rules at WotC. I gotta respect 'em. regards stav
Tenzhi 11-30-05, 04:19 AM	I'm innocent I tells ya'! I didn't do it and ya' can't prove anything! :shifty:
Silmarien Aldalome 11-30-05, 05:28 AM	I'm innocent I tells ya'! I didn't do it and ya' can't prove anything! :shifty: I love your posts. I love most people's posts - I love most posts most of the time. I also love especially, Gabe's posts, and Demonfey's. I love feedback about our work. I love comments about most areas. you don't blame, Tenzh. You comment. It's welcome. anyhowz - prolly 'nough said from here. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 11-30-05, 05:42 AM	Ally's Summons Vivomancy Level: Cleric 6, Wizard 6 Components: V,S,M Casting Time: Target: 1 Ally + 1 Extra Person per 3 Caster Levels Range: One Silverstarfire Metal Object per person (minimum of two required) Duration: 1 Hour/Level Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes When this spell is cast, the spellcaster infuses a piece of Silverstarfire metal with the Caster's cognitive signature. That signature is a unique combination of alignment, essence of the caster's beliefs, loves and hates. Upon casting the metal glows brightly with power from the Positive Material Plane as the caster's mental energies are imprinted upon the metal. The token may be gifted to an ally. At their behest, the recipient may, in an instant, relay a summons, or send a call to the original caster. The effect is like a single-word mind-shout or gong in the head, that relays the impression of location, only to the caster and triggers a latent Teleport, upon the caster. If the caster so chooses, she or he can Teleport, immediately, to the caller's location. There is no will save to refuse the summons; the caster may simply ignore the request.
Tenzhi 11-30-05, 05:52 AM	Kind of like a Drawmij's Instant Summons, only much more limited in scope despite the fact that it affects a living person. Wait-a-sec... Silverstarfire has its own special metal now? Next you'll make a Silverstarfire sub-race of elf. ;)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-30-05, 07:04 AM	Kind of like a Drawmij's Instant Summons, only much more limited in scope despite the fact that it affects a living person. it's the cognitive atunement of allies that makes it useful. Wait-a-sec... [b]Silverstarfire has its own special metal now? Next you'll make a Silverstarfire sub-race of elf. ;) *scratches head* - Silverstarfire metal's been around for yonks (ages). It's everywhere in Peredhil halls - it's what Meneldil's Hauberk, shirt and sword are made of. It's the primary material basis (not component, because it doesn't get consumed during spellcasting) for most spells. Under startlight, moonlight and sunshine, Meledil's hauberk burns incandescent, reflecting and amplifying the Universe's light through the metal's mysterious architecture. The Metal-shod heels of the Rune Staff flash as Silmarien casts a spell. The silveryblue light reflects off your face in your scrying portal, bringing a warm sense of home with it, for those with love in their heart and uncertainty and confusion - or a burning, unsettling pain, for those who nurse malice and vengeful thoughts.... @all It needn't be Silverstarfire metal for the spell. Easy enough, in a standard Core Rules-er to sub it for Mithril or something like that.
turalisj 11-30-05, 07:08 AM	the plate in her head made of silverstarfire too?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-30-05, 07:14 AM	the plate in her head made of silverstarfire too? brown eyes (not green) study your post from cyperspace......
Silmarien Aldalome 11-30-05, 07:56 AM	"If you're really listening, if you're awake to the poignant beauty of the world, your heart breaks regularly. In fact, your heart is made to break; its purpose is to burst open again and again so that it can hold ever-more wonders." —Andrew Harvey, *The Return of the Mother*
premier666 11-30-05, 08:01 AM	Yo! Whats up everyone? Hey Sil, I think I send you a PM recently, did you receive it?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-30-05, 08:05 AM	Yo! Whats up everyone? Hey Sil, I think I send you a PM recently, did you receive it? G'day Prem - gottit. We've got a PM list happenin' for allied members. I sent our methodology to 'em (or, erm, re-sent it, on request from the GM). I'll re-send, now..... regards stav
Tenzhi 11-30-05, 08:32 AM	the plate in her head made of silverstarfire too? Hehehe. The better to receive Marsha-waves. But that's no plate, that's a pair of scissors... er... a De-elferiser 9000. So it's been around all this time and I just blind-spotted it, eh? That's me - perception that's eerily keen one moment and misses the universe the next. Kind of a senility of the senses. One must naturally inquire about the special properties of silverstarfire metal, and the game-pertinent costs. If one missed these, too, please forgive an old man. ;)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-30-05, 06:02 PM	a De-elferiser 9000. the de-elferiser 10,000 - courtesy of Gellion. Which, Sil-Marsha turned into a hair-dryer, being fixated only on a date with Viggo. Sil-Marsha: The De-Elferiser, when used with straightening irons, makes it perfect. thanx Gellion!. One must naturally inquire about the special properties of silverstarfire metal, and the game-pertinent costs. If one missed these, too, please forgive an old man. ;) *feet shuffle nervously* erm, I never really ever costed it. But, it should be expensive. Mithril-ish. It's one of the vital components of Weaveshapes. Those are very constly to manufacture, and I suppose the money sunk into 'em could go into the Metal, partly. How we make it is a well-kept secret. But, Stardust is a part of the infusion, which is added to boiling metal, hotter than the hottest furnace of the blacksmith. Spells we weave and imprint upon the metal, so that its configuration, at a very fundamental level, is altered, forever. The Peredhil use it in ink as well. It is for our spells, and for special invitations for special occasions and when we seek to relay information and magic as one. The Obelisk at Peredhil Halls, whose runes you may see from far away, are of the same substance....
thasis 12-01-05, 04:24 PM	I havn't read anything here so don't take this as a insult based on what you guys are saying... it's just something that came to my mind... If any wars are planning to be fought would you please PM me to make sure that I approve. Dispite the fact that I'm not HERE per say, I still want to have some leadership.
thasis 12-05-05, 02:44 PM	Hey guys, can I just give a quick tip here... can you get to work on things such as designing the stronghold and the defenses. They're important in-game, and the GoPG was made to be a magor in-game player (hence the harold of all that is good in the lands of Tyrannor).
Demonfey 12-06-05, 01:12 AM	A note flutters down, landing in Silimna's hands. It reads The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. Plato
Silmarien Aldalome 12-06-05, 04:26 AM	Hi thasis, and DF, defences are being designed off-air, mostly. How they are declared and in what context, is also being explored with the GM crew. thasis - I'd add you to the PM list, but I don't want to get caught in the cross fire of how things have played out in your neck of the woods..... How much we can do, the kinds of methodology that are available to us, the degree of covert surveillance and the extent of our options, are a ditto. Before the peanut gallery cries 'hey you need to post it up' - please remember to be patient and that we have GMs and players who do know what they're doing. thanx stav more powers.....incoming PS I haven't checked the Materials for Review thread about the spell I posted. Does anyone know what happened there? stav
Demonfey 12-06-05, 01:27 PM	A...creature looking like Gurney, except the physical features have been altered somewhat, the skin and hair are the polar opposites, and where eyes are supposed to be, what seems to be twin miniature universes gaze out at the world, enters the building. Has Gurney returned? I wish to show him what happens to those that betray the GoUE, or have the nerve to spy upon it by infiltrating it.
Von Crown 12-06-05, 04:32 PM	A short, hairy creature walks in. It is difficult to make out most of it's features through the tangle of hair, but you can see a very wide grinfull of rather sharp-looking teeth. Also emerging from the ball of hair are two arms and two legs, fairly unremarkable save for the octopus-like suckers on the tips of it's fingers and toes. "Hi. I'm Yerry. My, who's that fellow with the freaky eyes? His name wouldn't be Yenrug, would it?"
Demonfey 12-06-05, 04:39 PM	Name's Crowley.
Von Crown 12-06-05, 05:01 PM	"Ah. Just hazarding a guess. So," he says, walking over to a wall and climbing up about twenty feet "Seen any Cryohydras around lately?"
Silmarien Aldalome 12-06-05, 05:02 PM	This post, also for Von Crown..... A...creature looking like Gurney, except the physical features have been altered somewhat, the skin and hair are the polar opposites, and where eyes are supposed to be, what seems to be twin miniature universes gaze out at the world, enters the building. Has Gurney returned? I wish to show him what happens to those that betray the GoUE, or have the nerve to spy upon it by infiltrating it. OoC: vomitronic.....*vomits* ;) Silimna and the crew look a little nauseated. The mishappen features of the two new arrivals are, basically, humanoid, but disproportionate in various ways. It has the effect to Eilistraee's folk, of reminding them of what it means when something is wrong. I do not understand how creatures can put so much energy into distorting life and making things.....unnatural. "You dishonour Gurney Halleck - the bravest of any who hath walked our halls. You do it for envy of his vibrant spirit." OoC: G'day fellas. Good to see you and ta for the posts. regards stav
Demonfey 12-06-05, 05:13 PM	When'd I say disproportionate? I don't do the "horrible mutation" thing. I just go with controlled changes. No, I do it because he dishonored us by breaking through the GoUE's defenses so easily, even moreso since I was a member at the time. This so called mockery is part of his punishment. To stare into his own face, changed by evil.
Von Crown 12-06-05, 05:22 PM	"HEY! Who're you calling unnatural? So now just 'cuz you've never seen something before means someone must have made it intentionally, is that it?"
Demonfey 12-06-05, 05:25 PM	You work for Mordred?
Von Crown 12-06-05, 05:34 PM	"Yeah, why? I'm the chief wrangler. It's my job to track down dangerous creatures. Right now I'm on assignment to locate Dyeduska Vodyanoy, a powerful water spirit. He's been causing trouble in port Marrin. I need a Cryohydra's throat lining to make some shackles to hold 'im."
Demonfey 12-06-05, 05:37 PM	Normally, Mordred enhances his minions to take on more tasks more efficiently, correct?
Von Crown 12-06-05, 05:37 PM	"Well, yeah, sometimes. Why?"
Demonfey 12-06-05, 05:40 PM	I'm just getting to why most people would assume you're not completely natural.
Von Crown 12-06-05, 05:49 PM	"Why would people assume I work for Mordred? Seems to be a bit of a mental leap, if you catch my drift."
Demonfey 12-06-05, 05:54 PM	You knew enough to call this body Yenrug without any explanations. Currently, only Mordred and those working for him would know enough about it to call this form anything like that. Also, the fact that I've also seen some of Mordred's finer handiwork helps...namely, NOAH. In combat.
Von Crown 12-06-05, 05:57 PM	"Is that signifigant somehow? I hear a guy asking for some bloke named Gurney, then I walk in and see opposite image man. So I think to myself 'hey, maybe his name is Gurney backwards!'"
Demonfey 12-06-05, 05:59 PM	Except as far as I know, which is quite a bit considering some of my more innate powers, you have never met Gurney before. I also didn't mention out loud that I was also using a body made to mirror his. That, and I have had a hive node implanted.
Von Crown 12-06-05, 06:16 PM	"you have a hive node? Eh, never been one for those things myself. Anyways, no on the Cryohydra then?"
Demonfey 12-06-05, 06:20 PM	Sorry. Haven't seen any around.
Von Crown 12-06-05, 06:40 PM	"You haven't seen any birds flying backwards lately, have you? How about..." He reaches into the fur on his back and pulls out a roll of parchment. With his other hand, hereaches into his mouth and pulls out his teeth, which were apparently oversized dentures of some sort. He puts the teeth wherever he got the pachment from. "Lets see... Seen any Bulettes or Unicorns?"
Demonfey 12-06-05, 06:42 PM	Nope, sorry.
Wilds 12-06-05, 07:41 PM	"Funny how a place that doesnt exist can be so readily found huuu? Hahahahaha"
Demonfey 12-06-05, 07:43 PM	I seem to have that effect on places.
Wilds 12-06-05, 07:48 PM	"Really? That is rather interesting... You should stop by sometime we could talk."
Demonfey 12-07-05, 02:32 AM	I already have...
Silmarien Aldalome 12-07-05, 03:50 AM	OoC Post Thomas Merton's notion of what makes a saint saintly doesn't have to do with being a perfectly sinless paragon of virtue. The more important measure of sanctity, he said, is one's ability to see what's good and beautiful in other people. The truly godly person "retires from the struggle of judging others."
Wilds 12-07-05, 10:02 AM	At which point they are no longer human. It is inherient how we judge each other and learn, to leave it you leave all humanity behind
Silmarien Aldalome 12-07-05, 04:26 PM	I see your point Wilds, and can understand that reading of the quote. xcpt The author's quote leaves us with a riddle, though. Maybe the Elf-Bane has some thoughts about this one, I don't know. But, I liked the quote, in any case. It arrived in my In-Box and I thought it was apt for the Guild of Pure Good. regards stav
gabrion 12-07-05, 04:32 PM	OoC Post Thomas Merton's notion of what makes a saint saintly doesn't have to do with being a perfectly sinless paragon of virtue. The more important measure of sanctity, he said, is one's ability to see what's good and beautiful in other people. The truly godly person "retires from the struggle of judging others." But can't I judge someone as being dumb for keeping electronics too close to their bath, ultimately resulting in death? More seriously though, such a philosophy as Merton's (if it can be called a philosophy), has some gaping holes. With no actual standard for judging someone's goodness, what sense does it even make to talk about sanctity?
Wilds 12-07-05, 05:08 PM	I wasnt trying to be sarcastic or mean Sil, just Sociology warping my mind
Silmarien Aldalome 12-07-05, 05:16 PM	you're okay Wilds :) no worry at all! Nice to see ya! kind regards stavros
Wilds 12-07-05, 05:34 PM	K, just wasnt in a good mood last night and didnt want it to carry over anywhere
jagggar 12-07-05, 05:35 PM	But can't I judge someone as being dumb for keeping electronics too close to their bath, ultimately resulting in death? I was just about to agree with you, but then I remembered that I snapped when someone did that (judged someone as beind dumb). My senior year my older brother by such an amount of love died. Him, his younger brother, and his best-friend went to the creek by their house after a weekend of torrentual rain. They were trying to cross it and such and he was swept away. Long sob-story short, I'd say if I hadn't been in shock, it would've been the week from hell. Sept. 11th happened along and I didn't even realize it until after I went to the counciler's office (even though we had the moment of silence in the morning). Bunch of girls at the table behind me in Fibers (artsy tie-dying and papermaking) were talking about how boys were stupid and one of them said something about the boy in the creek. I snapped. I was drawing a line with a straight-edge and it snapped up and landed on the table with a smack. Like I said. . . I'd say no one has a right to judge anyone based on one action. That doesn't mean people don't have a right to judge, just that one action is horrid for statistial analysis. Doesn't mean people won't judge either. And yet, the night they were looking for him, we were sitting around swapping Darwin Awards we recalled. . .
gabrion 12-07-05, 06:16 PM	@jagggar-Thx for sharing (I know things like that are often hard to talk about), and I truly hope I didn't offend you. Just to make things clear, I was only making the electricity comment to add some irony, because it is in fact the way that Thomas Merton (the man Sil was talking about) died.
Von Crown 12-07-05, 06:17 PM	In the context of dumb, I'd rate dumb as ding something, having a terrible result, but still not learning anything and going backand doing the exact same thing again. My thoughts. Anyways... "Well, I guess I should get to why I'm here. I was ordered to inquire about purchasing twently pounds of this silvererwhatsit metal."
jagggar 12-07-05, 06:25 PM	None really taken. I wonder if hypocricy is part of being human as well. "Silvershiney metal?"
Von Crown 12-07-05, 06:38 PM	"Eh, something like that. I think."
Demonfey 12-07-05, 07:06 PM	@Jagggar: Of course hypocrisy is a part of human nature. Why else would there be so much of it in the world if it weren't? @Von Crown: Do you mean silverstarfire metal, or whatever it's called?
Von Crown 12-07-05, 07:09 PM	"Yeah, that'd be the stuff. I need twenty pounds."
turalisj 12-07-05, 07:19 PM	Hey, if any of you could get my body back, I need it for something back on Aerenal. Zik said, sticking his head out of the floor. If anyone knows eberron, then I'm sure they know what I'm talking about....
Von Crown 12-07-05, 08:46 PM	So, correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no current codified price on Silverstarfire Metal, correct? Has there been any precise, codified specification of it's properties and uses, other than being used in several spells? If not, I'd be willing to do that for you if you tell me what you want it to do in general or specific. Of the many things Dauthaar puts more emphasis on than many campaigns, special materials is one of the most readily brought to mind (I'd say about fourth place or so), and I've got a good bit of experience designing materials. Just say the word if you want me to.
Von Crown 12-09-05, 11:10 PM	And a great silence covers the land...
Demonfey 12-10-05, 02:00 AM	Only Sil can give you that answer (it being his creation)
Von Crown 12-12-05, 04:46 PM	Yeah, I know... That was sort of a bump in disguise... As is this...
Demonfey 12-12-05, 06:02 PM	Hey, if it dies, evil wins this by default.
gabrion 12-12-05, 07:51 PM	Hey, if it dies, evil wins this by default. Well the HoR won't exactly stay neutral if it thinks evil is causing too much suffering and what not...
Wilds 12-12-05, 08:12 PM	:cheer: :w00t: We still win though
jagggar 12-12-05, 08:18 PM	How so?
Silmarien Aldalome 12-14-05, 01:33 AM	"Love is the most difficult and dangerous form of courage. Courage is the most desperate, admirable, and noble kind of love." Delmore Schwartz Please don't tell me how to do my job.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-14-05, 01:41 AM	No leader means no guild, and if it's not declared by March 1, I will consider it a target as is and proceed with the planned strike, even though it doesn't have anything at the moment. This whole business will be done, and people won't be getting aggravated over it anymore, and over two months to complete a guild that has been (apparently) worked on for a while now should be a generous enough time frame, correct? Not meaning to sound provocative, here, df. No insult at you at all. The Guild does have a leader, and I expect to be able to take some days respite, when I need. Commentary on the Guild's organisation has been a-plenty, and we shouldn't post to other's threads about what people should or shouldn't do. Thanx If anyone really needs to say anymore, please PM me - I get upset reading materials about this sort of stuff, on air. regards stav
Demonfey 12-14-05, 01:43 AM	nevermind.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-14-05, 01:50 AM	nevermind. I read it before you edited it, and I really am glad it was changed. Thank you kindly, for the reflections and adjustment, I really do appreciate it.
Demonfey 12-14-05, 01:58 AM	If I may ask for one thing, though? Can you at least tell us what isn't complete yet? Just something like floorplan, defense, followers...that type of thing. For example: The GoUE base is (more or less) complete, maybe a couple additions to the wyvern before it'll be functional. The armaments, while small in number, are still complete. Followers and floorplan are still in the works. I only ask so that people will stop wondering if anything is being completed at all.
Demonfey 12-14-05, 02:03 AM	It will also let the guild's members try and help with it, making it less on you. It's what I've found has worked over at the GoUE. I ask my members for help, and divvy up my own power amongst them, so that they feel like they are being productive, being helpful, and makes sure that some progress is always occurring.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-14-05, 03:32 AM	If I may ask for one thing, though? Can you at least tell us what isn't complete yet? Just something like floorplan, defense, followers...that type of thing. For example: The GoUE base is (more or less) complete, maybe a couple additions to the wyvern before it'll be functional. The armaments, while small in number, are still complete. Followers and floorplan are still in the works. I only ask so that people will stop wondering if anything is being completed at all. It's okay to ask this way. Thanx for the questions. @all Okay, hold ups just aren't about "stav" - there are time-delays between PMs and responses from GMs - which is perfectly reasonable. I don't expect our GMs to exist just for my benefit, and respect they have whole lives, outside Guild House and need to take care of their lives out there..... (at words "out there" suddenly Scully and Mulder stare at you from cyberspace). Okay-II - I've PMd the GMs about our layout, our methods (and I have a PM from our GM to work on) and our associations/interconnections to other features of my work at the Guild House. @Demonfey A March deadline, DF - we can do it before then. I'm on holidays, for a while soon - and there'll be heaps of work to get into. But, until then Christmas shopping, silly-season celebrations - I have a life you know and friends to celebrate with, work deadlines before Christmas. The Courts close over January, mostly and there's always a last-minute rush to get cases in. I'm in the middle of a separation from my partner of 15 years, which means a lot of work - I'm in a big busy time. @all Please don't ask for details on any of those items, except in PMs. And none of that means you should even be thinking about a change in the guard in this joint. To ask, suggest, prod, poke, or blame is to inflame. Kind Regards stavros
Sargatanas 12-14-05, 07:34 AM	March eh? Kinda makes me glad Thasis may be comin back to take his guild back. Cuz there aint no use in this place existin if it won't be done until march.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-14-05, 07:49 AM	March eh? Kinda makes me glad Thasis may be comin back to take his guild back. Cuz there aint no use in this place existin if it won't be done until march. You'd see a lot of action to be headin' the team's way a helluva lot sooner. I'm here to run this joint, and that's what I'm gunna do. stav
Sargatanas 12-14-05, 10:17 AM	You'd see a lot of action to be headin' the team's way a helluva lot sooner. I'm here to run this joint, and that's what I'm gunna do. stav There wouldn't be any action other than makin stuff up and never postin it for approval. Ya can't do things in game with a place that doesn't exist. The GoPG holds no territory, it has no walls. It's members dwell within the abyss, floating endlessly while their lands are not declared and their walls do not build. There aint no use for a place that doesn't exist, since it's members can't do a thing if they have no place to do it from.
Wilds 12-14-05, 12:57 PM	Dont understand why the evil guilds just dont take over the entire continent. Problem solved
Silmarien Aldalome 12-14-05, 05:07 PM	There wouldn't be any action other than makin stuff up and never postin it for approval. Ya can't do things in game with a place that doesn't exist. The GoPG holds no territory, it has no walls. It's members dwell within the abyss, floating endlessly while their lands are not declared and their walls do not build. There aint no use for a place that doesn't exist, since it's members can't do a thing if they have no place to do it from. What needs to be soaked up is that I already know all that. I already get it. It would be hard not to, with the number of times it's been pointed out. When we're ready, we'll formalise our details and *cracks* Sil-Mulder-ian: The GoPG - it's out there; Sil-Scully-ian: Mulder! There's a scientific explanation for all the flying saucers, supernatural creatures, and aliens I've seen, that I forget between X-Files episodes, before I always end up saying Mulder! There's no such things as the supernatural. Science explains everything. *pulls it together
Von Crown 12-14-05, 06:37 PM	So, what about the silverstarfire metal? I mentioned it before when you were off, so I'll restate in brief. I've come up with several special materials before, and if you don't have specific properties laid out for the metal and/or prices, I'd be willing to give either one or both a shot if you'd like. I've got plenty of time, the only other projects I'm working on currently are a template for dragons on the semi-organic grafted armor idea, items that use raimoyu,something top-seceret that's I'm hoping to usethe SSF metal for, and a core class that's almost done anyways- the Coward.
Demonfey 12-14-05, 08:56 PM	March eh? Kinda makes me glad Thasis may be comin back to take his guild back. Cuz there aint no use in this place existin if it won't be done until march. Which one, or did you mean both?
Wilds 12-14-05, 09:11 PM	March???? I'm gana hibernate till then i guess, that or i might kill my chars
Dyne 12-14-05, 09:20 PM	Dont understand why the evil guilds just dont take over the entire continent. Problem solved Oh, I have my plans. :plotting:
Demonfey 12-14-05, 09:41 PM	That's the GoPG deadline. There's still the Keep, Halls of Refuge, and some of the neutral guilds to take on.
Wilds 12-14-05, 09:50 PM	Ya, but the GoPG has proven to be much more ummmm persistant than the others in its attempted negotiations.
Demonfey 12-14-05, 11:58 PM	Do you want to kill something or not, Wilds?
WizO_Shadow 12-15-05, 09:12 AM	Alrighty Ladies and Gentlemen, keep it clean. I don't like dealing with flames and politics before my morning cup of coffee. I tend to just delete things that way. Also, this thread is moving quickly (which is awesome!) so whomever the thread owner is, please keep in mind the need to restart the thread soon. :whatsthis WizO_Shadow
Wilds 12-15-05, 11:00 AM	Im all for killing of things, in game of course. I'll keep the politics to a minimum OOC
WizO_Cat 12-15-05, 05:57 PM	I guess that I just want to back up what Shadow is saying here - keep the posts on the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. It's ok to criticize the job that somebody is doing, but it isn't ok to take it to the point of asking for their removal and insulting their ability. At that time, it is considered Baiting and it is against the Code of Conduct. On another note (and ith my WizO hat off), I think that it would be equally rewarding to: 1) delegate out some of the work to other guests. Part of being an effective leader is being able to delegate responsibilities to others. For example, if you are working on a group project, if you're the one only doing the work, invariably your group is going to fail. 2) divide up the responsibilities out in the open. Divide them up within this thread instead of private e-mails. When you bring up private e-mails, it makes it like it is some sort of closed back-room meeting. Those never go over that well and those left out of being "in the know" may hold it personal. Am I saying post all strategies on the board? Heck no - that's telegraphing punches. But doing the organizing is more than fair. In short, treat others as you would like to be treated. Happy holidays.
Wilds 12-15-05, 08:59 PM	Understood
Zombomaniac 12-15-05, 09:34 PM	Wizo_Cat is right. I may not be a member of this guild IC, but have always supported the Guilds of Good. @Sil I know you are wanting to make it harder for your enemies to know what you are doing, but the E-mails and PMs obviously aren't working as you have been working on this for several months now. If you put other people in charge of stuff it will take the weight off your shoulders and make things move faster. You would also be able to focus on one thing more and the different perspectives would improve the overall product. One person doesn't make award winning movie. Several do.
Dyne 12-15-05, 10:52 PM	One person doesn't make award winning movie. Several do. Yes, several... hundred.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-16-05, 11:10 PM	Hello everyone, There seems to have been some confusion - I'd like to clarify. But first, thank you all for your patronage - it's appreciated and it's great to see your activity. okay - to spell it out - I meant between Christmas and New Year, I have some holidays, and will, indeed be a) declaring territory, b) preparing the GoPG, c) developing the mission brief and d) tie up some loose ends. I will engage D&D with Demonfey, Von Crown, Tenzhi and a number of others - Gabe, etc, and most of you beautiful people and such - with melee stuff, provided the OoC rappport health is in good shape. To spell it out - I must have clear signs that any IC poster means me well in real life, before I'll D&D with you. To conclude - it's never too late to build bridges with me, if you feel you want to or if you feel forgiving if you have been upset with me in the past. You just must make a gesture of kindness, mean it, and learn to focus on building and moving forwards. I hope this clarifies what's been part of the reason for my delay, here. Any questions? stav
Silmarien Aldalome 12-16-05, 11:12 PM	I guess that I just want to back up what Shadow is saying here - keep the posts on the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. It's ok to criticize the job that somebody is doing, but it isn't ok to take it to the point of asking for their removal and insulting their ability. At that time, it is considered Baiting and it is against the Code of Conduct. On another note (and ith my WizO hat off), I think that it would be equally rewarding to: 1) delegate out some of the work to other guests. Part of being an effective leader is being able to delegate responsibilities to others. For example, if you are working on a group project, if you're the one only doing the work, invariably your group is going to fail. 2) divide up the responsibilities out in the open. Divide them up within this thread instead of private e-mails. When you bring up private e-mails, it makes it like it is some sort of closed back-room meeting. Those never go over that well and those left out of being "in the know" may hold it personal. Am I saying post all strategies on the board? Heck no - that's telegraphing punches. But doing the organizing is more than fair. In short, treat others as you would like to be treated. Happy holidays. Thank you for your advice - I'll take it on advisement and hope my last post clarifies my intentions. @all Sorry for your confusion - and please look to my guidance, this thread. Regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 12-16-05, 11:14 PM	March???? I'm gana hibernate till then i guess, that or i might kill my chars *Christmas to New Year* Must have got lost in my posts, upstream, but it is there. :) ta muchly, stavraki
Silmarien Aldalome 12-16-05, 11:20 PM	One more thing, people. There are two "modes" for this Foundation a) Slow-Growth R&D Mode, a-la The Half-Elven Foundation. This is "NO PRESSURE" mode, and about exploring game tools, what good is, and having fun. b) Rapid-Melee-in-the-moment-brinkmanship. This second mode is tiring and happens in bursts. At this time, we're in Mode a). You'll know when we'll flip to Mode b) for the melee, and territory stuff. I'm hinting for one burst Chrissy-New Year. In the mean time, enjoy your posting here and take care. thanx stav
Zombomaniac 12-16-05, 11:42 PM	Ok the following is something I never thought I would have to post and I dont like having to post it, but if I dont then nothing will get done. @Sil The following post is not an attack upon your person. It is not me saying I dont like you (even though you do things in a way that I dont agree with). It is not me saying you are a bad DnD player, a bad poster, a bad person, or anything bad. If you take this badly or as an attack then you are taking it the wrong way. No matter what I say on the Boards I would never wish you to have a bad life. These are clear signs that I mean you well in real life. What I am about to post is me pointing out what you do that makes people flame you so much.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-16-05, 11:43 PM	Slow-Growth R&D Mode/Concepts Some suggestions for Guests - but please post to your own style, too :); Choose any concept on the summary post and develop it, or evaluate it, OoC Mode; Add your own new concept, or concept variation; Enjoy your Power-Balancing comments and point out what you'd do to modify a power, concept, feat, skill, spell or otherwise; If you like, explore the stuff, IC, or - use anything you like to create and IC interaction; Discuss where you'd like the GoPG to reside, territory stuff, strategy, and planning concepts. Fast-In-the-Moment-Melee-Brinkmanship When we get near to this point, it will be declared, clearly on thread. regards stav Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power On the Alignments and Positive, Negative Energy and Holy Power (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674607&postcount=558) by Blasphemous_R; More on the Prior Analysis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674704&postcount=559) by Blasphemous_R; Essay on Holy Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7690269&postcount=599) a theoretical basis for new Holy Powers; Some Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698634&postcount=617); Some More Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698646&postcount=618). 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith Compel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569800&postcount=242) 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199); Life Enhancement Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568774&postcount=225); Hallowed Humour (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7578004&postcount=305); Disrupt Undead Metabolism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587377&postcount=328); Ambidexterity (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588514&postcount=332); Force Corporeal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588600&postcount=334); Stardust Implant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606011&postcount=417); Stardust Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606020&postcount=418); Stardust Transformation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606034&postcount=419); Spark of the Hallowed Mind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7648263&postcount=467); Restore Fealty (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660247&postcount=503); Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7673478&postcount=537); Another Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7686906&postcount=588); Psionic Transfiguration (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7788926&postcount=764); Psionic Transfiguration - Comment on Balancing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7783996&postcount=740); Signature Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789078&postcount=769); Analysis of Privacy Standards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789128&postcount=770) & Signature Scrying; Signature Messenging (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7842815&postcount=803); Ally's Summons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7878135&postcount=826). 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212). 12. Background Posts for Essay on Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite Some Thoughts on Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570846&postcount=270); Stuff About Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570864&postcount=271); Powers of the Holy Over Non-Corporeal Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576644&postcount=286); To Get Us Think About 'What' Undead Sinew is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576705&postcount=288); Some Thoughts About 'Anti-Necromancy' (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7577763&postcount=297); Comment on Biomancy & Biomantic Magic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587406&postcount=329) 13. Comedy Posts Necrotic Bloat Creepy Things with THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597239&postcount=377); Shrill Scream - The Mouise is In the House (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7656041&postcount=486).
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 12:08 AM	Ok the following is something I never thought I would have to post and I dont like having to post it, but if I dont then nothing will get done. @Sil The following post is not an attack upon your person. It is not me saying I dont like you (even though you do things in a way that I dont agree with). It is not me saying you are a bad DnD player, a bad poster, a bad person, or anything bad. If you take this badly or as an attack then you are taking it the wrong way. No matter what I say on the Boards I would never wish you to have a bad life. These are clear signs that I mean you well in real life. What I am about to post is me pointing out what you do that makes people flame you so much. okay - I'll focus, specifically, on the positive bits - :) thank you for the affirmation of good intentions - it'll be great to post with you in Mode b) :) ; I appreciate that you want to work/post with us here on the thread - it's great; I also wish you well in real life; Lets build bridges! take care - and see you round stav
Zombomaniac 12-17-05, 12:14 AM	Sil that was the starting of a bigger post this is the main post. It is not flaming. Sil - you take to long. - you take things to seriously - if you are going to "DnD" with us then you must DnD with us. - you are not a one man posting machine - we dont hate you or mean you ill fortune in any life - we will not follow all your wishes ---------- Sil we have been waiting a few months for you to do anything. Not a few days, not a few hours, or minutes, but months. Pick up the pace. Once again this is not an attack upon you, this is me trying to help the Guild House. ---------- Sil not everything in the world is flaming. This post is not flaming as I have no ill will towards you, but am only trying to help the Guild House get moving. ---------- You say you "must have clear signs that any IC poster means [you] well in real life, before [you'll] D&D with [them]"? Well your aren't going to always get that. In fact you likely never will. People post their way, not yours. We are the way we are not the way you want us to be and we wont change for you. If you are going to put yourslf in the middle of our plans you have to do something. You can't just stick your nose up in the air and say "No you are mean so I wont pay attention to you." You want us to show you respect by wishing you a "well life" well you will have to give us the respect we deserve aswell before anyone is likely to give you respect. Once again this is not a ttack on you, but me trying to help the Guild House. ----------- You apparently feel you can take everything on your shoulders and you cant. I am not saying you are weak or stupid, but merely saying you are human. Just like the rest of us. You may feel you are seperating the work or making things run better by doing things they way you are, but you aren't. You are only making us all wait for something that, just like your attack on Sargantanas at the attack on the Guards way back when (we waited a week for that), will likely be underwhelming. ------------ No matter what any of us say about you we do not hate you, wish you a bad life, or anything of the sort. Everyone here wishing everyone else a good life goes unsaid in all our posts. Even as I post this I wish you a good life, just like I wish DF, Gabrion, Priest, Sargantanas, Jaggar, Necrodude, the Wizos, and everyone else I have ever met a good life. We dont hate you. I will never post "I hope you have a good day!" at the end of all my posts. Not even you post that every time. Once again this is not an attack upon you, this is me trying to help the Guild House. ------------- No matter how much you pout, yell, call flaming, or send PMs saying we are bullying you, we will not be some stupid yap dog going "yes sir", "sorry sir", "your so wise sir". We are who we are not who you are. If you want to talk to someone just like you look in a mirror. Thats the only place you find such a person. Once again this is not an attack upon you, this is me trying to help the Guild House. -------------- These are the things that are making people not like you. I am not attacking you. I am trying to make the Boards a better place. You have to let these thing sink in Sil. They are vitally important. We're not attacking you, we dont hate you, we want you to have a good life, and I am getting tired of making posts like this.
thasis 12-17-05, 02:04 AM	Sil, not to be an annoying poster who doesn't post much anymore and is sticking his opinion where it is not wanted... I kindda agree with Zombomaniac. I think you are the nicest person and an excellent poster, and and I realy truely respect you for your contributations, but from what I've seen, you take a loooonnnnnnggg time. That isn't good for my guild that you are currently running or the other guilds either. We need to quicken up the pace. Like Zombomaniac also said, people aren't going to bown down to your wishes, just like your not going to bow down to ours. We have to meet a halfway point, or in some situations (or even most of them) lean to one side depending on the amount of people supporting who. It's simply how a democratic society should work.
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-17-05, 02:15 AM	Orcy believes this guild was intended to be IN GAME. Not a research and development thread, but IN GAME. He thinks thats gotten lost somewhere along the way and would like to see the focus brought back toward that as the original poster wished. Is Orcy right Thasis?
thasis 12-17-05, 02:32 AM	For the most part yes. Reasearch and Development is fine... as long as it doesn't complety run over the in-game. If you want you can create a Reasearch and Development sub-guild of the GoPG and create a new thread for it. You could procead to run that and you could appoint a new in-game leader of this guild... untill my return.
jagggar 12-17-05, 09:26 AM	Speaking of which, this thread itself needs to be made anew soon.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 10:22 AM	okay, @zombo see my next post. @all thanx for the input - but enough now. I don't think anyone else at the Guild House has been more focussed on. I don't post to your threads, telling yaz what to do, or how much, or how to cut whatever, whenever. So, moving on The thread's two modes have been cut and explained. It's how I run the gig. Mode a) is for R&D slow-mode Mode b) is IFG fast-pace-brinkmanship @Orcy Orcy's entitled to his opinion - and my opinion also, is valid. My opinion, as keeper of a thread, is expressed through the thread's opening post concepts. As yours is, in your threads. And to respect me, it's important to allow it as noted. To ride with your comment, the re-focus, is noted >THIS< (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8024141&postcount=917). @all in a way, all the attention is gratifying. You make me feel like a sought after commodity, which, in a way is nice. (don't think that's an invite for more about it, though). stav
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 10:24 AM	Speaking of which, this thread itself needs to be made anew soon. Yes, and that's territory stake-out time, Tyrannor speaking. @all Do remember that this thread went to 1000 posts in less that two months, with a little help, from this end, ha. Remember, we started with Libris Mortis concepts, and moved from there.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 10:30 AM	@zombo I hope you now have gotten it off your chest. There are some quite nice things in your post, and some I'm not going to focus on. I don't have a problem with you - and will interact with you IG. You've been kind enough to say some nice things. My pace, is my pace. It's not wrong or right - it's just my pace. My view: good love is slow love. Things rushed can't be enjoyed. And everyone keeps coming back, which, really is more important than exactly 'what' it is we do, in many ways. We have, at the Guild House, I think, one of the most stable posterships (i.e. returning folk) around. I think that is a testimony to a cultural shift, that was begun, way back when.....it was one of the things I tried to achieve as a GM. I take comfort in seeing your persistence, is the bottom line. *cracks* Sil-Marsha: *pouts* then *swooshes hair*. Where's the Elf-Bane - I need to tell him I'm meeting Viggo at 8, in 10 minutes. He's picking me up to take me to the prom.... *pulls it together.
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-17-05, 12:38 PM	Guild Charter: The main goals of the foundation are as follows: - To promote good in the city of Tryannor - To help all those in need (no matter what there race or class is) - To try to convert ones of evil into ones of good - To use diplomicy over violence to solve problems - To provide reasorces to other guilds of good in the war against evil - To stop the Guild of Ultimate Evil and all of his acomplices These are the goals of this guild as outlined by the "opening post concepts." These are things that are meant to be in game. Thus, Orcy says that he believes the guild needs to join in game as soon as possible. This is Thasis' guild, not another HEF. Now, as the Threadkeeper (who is Thasis) has said, he believes this is taking too long. The real threadkeeper has expressed his wishes for this to get moving so his guild can get into the games, so by all means we should hurry it along and get the guild into the games. Getting the guild into the games sacrifices nothing, many of the guilds around here were statted out in days and ready to go in game. Orcy sees no reason to keep the people waiting, even personal preference in slow posting can be 'gotten around' by giving the jobs to someone else. If the jobs for building the guild in game need to be sent out to other players, then by all means we need to do so. To note, this post has been about the guild and not a person. PS: Perhaps trying to cut down on posts will also help the guild... three within 10 minutes of eachother gets the guild to that dangerous restarting point a lot sooner.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 01:10 PM	These are the goals of this guild as outlined by the "opening post concepts." These are things that are meant to be in game. Thus, Orcy says that he believes the guild needs to join in game as soon as possible. This is Thasis' guild, not another HEF. Now, as the Threadkeeper (who is Thasis) has said, he believes this is taking too long. The real threadkeeper has expressed his wishes for this to get moving so his guild can get into the games, so by all means we should hurry it along and get the guild into the games. Getting the guild into the games sacrifices nothing, many of the guilds around here were statted out in days and ready to go in game. Orcy sees no reason to keep the people waiting, even personal preference in slow posting can be 'gotten around' by giving the jobs to someone else. If the jobs for building the guild in game need to be sent out to other players, then by all means we need to do so. To note, this post has been about the guild and not a person. PS: Perhaps trying to cut down on posts will also help the guild... three within 10 minutes of eachother gets the guild to that dangerous restarting point a lot sooner. Thanx All just formalities. The Opening Post - went 'under new direction' some time ago, in preparation for the new thread for Good and/or its Represenations. We've been developing a new charter for quite some time. The transition to the working thread is Work In Progress - and since we are nigh 1000 posts. things will happen when and as they will. ta, stavros and how this joint looks in the new thread -
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 01:17 PM	If you're really wanting to help with the final product, please hava look at the URL I posted upstream, pointing to the things that can help. I've posted a number of directions, invitations and requests. Inc. your comments on the tools of good, that will be used - in some form - in the IFG, (approval cycles pending). Rather than say the politics opinion stuff - instead, the *topic matter of the thread* is the stuff in the Summary URL and anything about GOOD. Our work for this Guild has been long and focussed and very productive. Our output Summary URL is something to be proud of. The work is for the Guild's betterment, in the IFG. It's all been highly relevant. @Orcy About the mythology of the GoPG - well Silimna, Silmarien and Varendil are my PCs and are pivotal for the IC stuff. It's naturally, going to look consistent with my PC profiles. @all but, the threads peoples are broader in scope. Naturally, the evolution of the IC concepts are influenced by all poster. stav
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-17-05, 01:33 PM	But this guild is NOT about Silimna, Silmarien, and Varendil. Whom Orcy will remind you cannot be in the same guild. The mythology of this guild has nothing to do with them. The mythology of this guild has everything to do with the OTHER people. Silimna joined this guild after she attacked Sargatanas, she is not a major important part in the guild's history. The guild needs a location, choose one from here. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/Kingside_Bishop/Tyranor.jpg) The following of which are already taken: Wooded Highlands: Oriental Guild Wooded Slopes: Psionics Foundation Sunrise Mountains: Ghashmal Keep Deeping Quarry: Stone Town/Guild of Ultimate Evil Misty Island: Councle of Arch-Mages Mendal Planes: Town of Bristol/Stormhand Federation Marketplace: Merchants Guild Malg Swamp: Shadows Breath and Blade The Winding Woods: Forest Dwellres Foundation Evergreen Forest: Concientia, Academy of Magic Herchound Jungle: Temple of the Damned Port City of Tortuga: Guild of Ultimate Evil outpost Peaceful Orchards: Halls of Refuge Lowland Foothills: Swordpoint Military Academy The guild needs defenses and such STATTED OUT. It cannot function as a guild without it's building created unless you wish it to be helpless. This guild is an IC guild. It is only temporarily in your control while Thasis is absent. Completely changing the man's guild is not something Orcy would think should be done. Orcy understands you like to run wild with mythology and make all sorts of things in your guild, however, this is just a 'loaner' of sorts from Thasis. When he does come back, he'll assume the threadkeeper role once more Orcy believes. To work for this guild's betterment, you need to establish the guild first. It cannot grow better in the games if it doesn't exist in them. Build it, stat it, then bring it to glory once it exists. Otherwise the attempt to raise something imaginary up is futile.
Tenzhi 12-17-05, 04:40 PM	Sometimes I wonder if Sil really is a half-elf. He does have that sort of plodding, elf-like approach to things, mixed with the so-called "human" urgency to create. It's a paradox, and certainly why Viggo will stand-up Sil-Marsha again. Whatever else happens, it would seem rather important to get the 'foundation' of the foundation set-up quickly in the interest of the game. On the other hand, it's hard to put any sort of urgency there when there's still constant conversation over how to mis-handle resources and such. Again with the paradox of urgency. Perhaps if we were less concerned with the numbers and more concerned with creativity and roleplay we'd already be up and running (probably on a quick course to falling apart again due to lack of cohesion). All that can truly be said with uncertainty is that the lack of decisive movement on many fronts is more disheartening than a lack of decisive movement on this particular front. I seem to have said a lot while saying nothing at all. Fascinating. But I do like to hear myself type.
jagggar 12-17-05, 04:58 PM	At this very moment, I'm trying to gather what's been written back and forth between those of us simplifying the districts and resources system. So hopefully once that's done we'll be on our way to a proper game? Probably not, but some of us will feel like we've acomplished something. . . Once that's in place and we really start going at it with our armies, if the GoPG is not claimed, statted, and et cetera, then the game will go on without it. And I so love reading what you type. Perhaps you could record sound of your typing so others may see (hear?) if they like it equally as well?
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 05:33 PM	But this guild is NOT about Silimna, Silmarien, and Varendil that's ENOUGH now Orcy - T'anx
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 05:40 PM	Sometimes I wonder if Sil really is a half-elf. He does have that sort of plodding, elf-like approach to things, mixed with the so-called "human" urgency to create. It's a paradox, and certainly why Viggo will stand-up Sil-Marsha again. Whatever else happens, it would seem rather important to get the 'foundation' of the foundation set-up quickly in the interest of the game. On the other hand, it's hard to put any sort of urgency there when there's still constant conversation over how to mis-handle resources and such. Again with the paradox of urgency. Perhaps if we were less concerned with the numbers and more concerned with creativity and roleplay we'd already be up and running (probably on a quick course to falling apart again due to lack of cohesion). All that can truly be said with uncertainty is that the lack of decisive movement on many fronts is more disheartening than a lack of decisive movement on this particular front. I seem to have said a lot while saying nothing at all. Fascinating. But I do like to hear myself type. Tenzh - respectfully - I'm not to take on board the urgency of kick-starting the IFG. I'm not responsible for it. We have a *great* Guild here, and it'd be great if you could help celebrate the Guild's goodies and things we've done. There's a URL with questions/prompts to help: I'll re-post it. regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 12-17-05, 05:42 PM	Slow-Growth R&D Mode/Concepts Some suggestions for Guests - but please post to your own style, too :); Choose any concept on the summary post and develop it, or evaluate it, OoC Mode; Add your own new concept, or concept variation; Enjoy your Power-Balancing comments and point out what you'd do to modify a power, concept, feat, skill, spell or otherwise; If you like, explore the stuff, IC, or - use anything you like to create and IC interaction; Discuss where you'd like the GoPG to reside, territory stuff, strategy, and planning concepts. Fast-In-the-Moment-Melee-Brinkmanship When we get near to this point, it will be declared, clearly on thread. regards stav Hallowed Faiths - Powers of the Holy 1. Introduction 2. Races of the Holy and the Positive Energy Plane 3. Metabolism and Positive Energy 4. On the Relationship Between Positive Energy and Holy Power On the Alignments and Positive, Negative Energy and Holy Power (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674607&postcount=558) by Blasphemous_R; More on the Prior Analysis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7674704&postcount=559) by Blasphemous_R; Essay on Holy Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7690269&postcount=599) a theoretical basis for new Holy Powers; Some Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698634&postcount=617); Some More Ideas (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7698646&postcount=618). 5. Skills of Hallowed Faith Libris Mortis & Background Lore on Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519441&postcount=59); Libris Mortis, Alchemy Skill & Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7519467&postcount=60) 6. Feats of Hallowed Faith Compel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7569800&postcount=242) 7. New Spells Holy Blood (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7517235&postcount=50); Disruptive Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7529582&postcount=99); Vibrant Aura (Positive Energy Field) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561163&postcount=180); Resurrection Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561279&postcount=182); Interdict the Undead (Undead Bane) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561490&postcount=189); Undeath to Life (Minor) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561678&postcount=197); Undeath to Life (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561688&postcount=198); Undeath to Life (Major) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7561697&postcount=199); Life Enhancement Aura (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7568774&postcount=225); Hallowed Humour (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7578004&postcount=305); Disrupt Undead Metabolism (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587377&postcount=328); Ambidexterity (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588514&postcount=332); Force Corporeal (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7588600&postcount=334); Stardust Implant (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606011&postcount=417); Stardust Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606020&postcount=418); Stardust Transformation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7606034&postcount=419); Spark of the Hallowed Mind (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7648263&postcount=467); Restore Fealty (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7660247&postcount=503); Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7673478&postcount=537); Another Open Channel to the Divine (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7686906&postcount=588); Psionic Transfiguration (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7788926&postcount=764); Psionic Transfiguration - Comment on Balancing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7783996&postcount=740); Signature Scrying (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789078&postcount=769); Analysis of Privacy Standards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7789128&postcount=770) & Signature Scrying; Signature Messenging (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7842815&postcount=803); Ally's Summons (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7878135&postcount=826). 8. Prestige Classes, Powers of the Holy and Hallowed Faith 9. Research & Development Compendium of Existing Powers & New Concepts Banes of the Undead-Revised (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7564056&postcount=223) 10. Role Play - The Story of the Guild of Pure Good 11. New Domain Spells Glory Domain (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7562283&postcount=212). 12. Background Posts for Essay on Biomancy/Vivomancy/Vegemite Some Thoughts on Positive Energy (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570846&postcount=270); Stuff About Positoxins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7570864&postcount=271); Powers of the Holy Over Non-Corporeal Undead (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576644&postcount=286); To Get Us Think About 'What' Undead Sinew is (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7576705&postcount=288); Some Thoughts About 'Anti-Necromancy' (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7577763&postcount=297); Comment on Biomancy & Biomantic Magic (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7587406&postcount=329) 13. Comedy Posts Necrotic Bloat Creepy Things with THIS (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7597239&postcount=377); Shrill Scream - The Mouise is In the House (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7656041&postcount=486).
Tenzhi 12-17-05, 06:24 PM	Tenzh - respectfully - I'm not to take on board the urgency of kick-starting the IFG. I'm not responsible for it. I'm not placing responsibility (what some might call "blame" ;) ) on anyone for the state of accelerated growth or lack thereof in perpetuity across the universe, forthwith, et al, and a bunch of other pseudo-legalese. Just commenting that it would be a good idea to make some decisions and get things moving on whoever's part. I do hold you responsible for (or "lay blame upon" depending on whether your glass is half full or not) being you, however. Who else can I blame (or hold responsible, as the case may be) for such a thing? ;) I kid, of course. I could take most posters (and myself) to task for any number of personality quirks. I'm honest to the point of seeming a cruel male donkey at times; Orcy is often blunt to the point of crassness; jagggar somehow makes letters look like fluffy kittens, which is just nauseating. But the truth is we need the quirkiness. And these are some of my favourite posters. But what would the bridge of the Enterprise D be without Worf's growliness, Data's naivete, or Red Shirt #7's expendability (in absolutely no particular or related order, BTW)? (You can substitute just about any television cast here, if you like - from Cliff Clayvin the anecdotard, to Dan "the ladies' man" Fielding, to Wilson Wilson the endless font of wisdom and trivia.) We have a *great* Guild here, and it'd be great if you could help celebrate the Guild's goodies and things we've done. Bah. I can't laud (AND criticize - I usually place one with the other, a spoonful of sugar and all that rot) everyone's creativity every time I post. People might begin to think I care. I'm already beginning to lose credibility when I say I hate all of you equally. Dare you ask me to shed my irascibly cantankerous facade? I assure you that something inhospitably fouler lies festering underneath. Something not dead which should probably eternal lie. :88E: Many of the guilds here produce some highly creative and often interesting ideas, and this one is no exception. In the context of the game, many of the ideas (here and elsewhere) could be mechanically sounder, IMO (or might involve mechanics, yanno, at all ;) ). But I put in my two cents on those and leave it to the GMs (may their toes grow ever hairier) to decide; and reserve the right to grumble about any of those decisions later, of course (the broken rolling method for character creation, for instance :devil: ). Man that's a long post. See what you made me do. I'll probably get busted for relatively gentle social commentary as well, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that I was admitting to liking people. I'm now disgusted with myself and shall commence with the spiritual flogging. "Pie Iesu domine, dona eis requiem." :banghead:
Ravenscroft 12-17-05, 08:20 PM	that's ENOUGH now Orcy - T'anx I'm with Orcy on this one. No apologies from me , if your personal life is traumatic , not our problem (even if we are sympathetic , or care). This is decidedly looking like a one man show , with little or no encouragement for anyone else to be involved. Maybe someone a bit more user-friendly should be offered the responsibility of running the Guild.
Wilds 12-17-05, 08:55 PM	*yawn* hibernation time
Zombomaniac 12-17-05, 11:11 PM	I second everything Orcy has said.
jagggar 12-17-05, 11:28 PM	jagggar somehow makes letters look like fluffy kittens, which is just nauseating. Fluffy kittens? "Fluffy Kittens?" jagggar repeats, a tic forming in her left eye. "Damn my inner chibi." "KITTY!!!!!!!!!" cj drops down on Tenzhi from above with cat-ears and full cat-tail. "Damn the outer."
Von Crown 12-18-05, 06:08 PM	Stav, could I please just get a quick yes or no on the SSF metal thing?
premier666 12-19-05, 02:03 PM	So I'm back full online after finally entering college (YAY! :D ) So, what's been happening lately? Have the stats for the guild been figured out? Have we declared ourselves? Is everybody still alive?
A_shadowy_figure 12-19-05, 03:49 PM	Silmarien Aldalome-Why haven't you responded at the Halls of Refuge? You were asked to make a few simple rolls, and no amount of "I play at my pace" can excuse neglecting such a simple request. Your response is both expected and appreciated. PS, If you continue to refuse to roll, I will ask the GMs to make the rolls for you. In the end, this is still a PbP game, so when people slow it down by not posting, when they have all of the relevant modifiers calculated, it is not unlikely that the GMs step in to keep things moving.
WizO_Cat 12-19-05, 11:16 PM	All right, allow me to provide the following insight: 1) Really, a guild is only as good as its members. Thus, really there is no true "threadkeeper" instilled by being the first post - it is something that is conveyed by all of the members of the guild. 2) As for the rules and the speed that the need to happen, that is in the perview of the Game Masters. Furthermore, if there are only two guilds, then we're going to go the speed of the slower guild. Hey, you can't make someone do something that they don't want to do. However, the speed needs to be at least agreed upon by the members of the guild. 3) I'm noticing a lot of personal threads. Let's keep the discussion on the topic of the guild and not other guests. Really, a lot of it has been insulting recently, and frankly it is getting a little thin. A part of having a board here is that it would generate fun and promote thinking about WotC products. If it just becomes a repository for insults, I'm sure Paradox has no other choice than to reconsider the board's and foundations as a whole viability. So, with that in mind, I suggest that each member of the guild provide insight as to how fast this growth needs to be before joining the IFGW. If certain members want to generate characters fully while others play immediately, I'd suggest starting the game and get in a round while the others spend their time generating their character. That way, everybody wins. Just a consideration. Happy Holidays.
Ravenscroft 12-20-05, 12:57 AM	To spell it out - I must have clear signs that any IC poster means me well in real life, before I'll D&D with you. To conclude - it's never too late to build bridges with me, if you feel you want to or if you feel forgiving if you have been upset with me in the past. You just must make a gesture of kindness, mean it, and learn to focus on building and moving forwards. stav 3) I'm noticing a lot of personal threads. Let's keep the discussion on the topic of the guild and not other guests. Really, a lot of it has been insulting recently, and frankly it is getting a little thin. A part of having a board here is that it would generate fun and promote thinking about WotC products. If it just becomes a repository for insults, I'm sure Paradox has no other choice than to reconsider the board's and foundations as a whole viability. I know you can't take sides or play the blame game. But someone outright saying that they wont game with anyone , unless sure of their intentions is a bit personal. When this person seems to be responsible for all the activity (or lack thereof) , how is that promoting Fun or WotC product thinking?
Zombomaniac 12-20-05, 01:08 AM	I know you can't take sides or play the blame game. But someone outright saying that they wont game with anyone , unless sure of their intentions is a bit personal. When this person seems to be responsible for all the activity (or lack thereof) , how is that promoting Fun or WotC product thinking? I like this guy (or girl if you are one). He (or she) makes very good points.
Ravenscroft 12-20-05, 01:22 AM	I like this guy (or girl if you are one). He (or she) makes very good points. *Checks Birth Certificate* Is definitely a guy. Has no plans to change. :D
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-20-05, 02:17 AM	Orcy isn't going to adress a person, but more the idea that has been mentioned. Believing that everyone whom one is to post with must be nice and show that they have no malicious intent is not reasonable. Never in ones life will everyone like an individual. People should not be expected to say "Hey, I wish you the best of everything you do in life." It seems almost an attempt to make another poster submissive. Orcy for one doesn't care what he is wished in life. He will play the game and enjoy it as long as it is here to enjoy. He needs no well wishes from those who don't mean it, and won't wish well to those he doesn't in reality. Orcy doesn't believe it is needed, and as we all know, Orcy is rather hard headed. But this is getting dangerously close to being on specific posters and such rather than the idea, so Orcy will end it now. Well, maybe one more note. In accordance with Cat's third number there... Asking posters to wish one well in life before playing with them in game draws the focus from the game to a poster. So it is therefore disallowed by the rules anyway because it attempts to bring focus on an individual rather than the game. In conclusion Orcy would say the following... This is a game. You are either here to play the game, or you are here to play the people. One does not need to have everyone's love before one plays the game, it is after all, a game.
Sssargoth 12-20-05, 02:36 AM	I'm with Orcy on this one. No apologies from me , if your personal life is traumatic , not our problem (even if we are sympathetic , or care). This is decidedly looking like a one man show , with little or no encouragement for anyone else to be involved. Maybe someone a bit more user-friendly should be offered the responsibility of running the Guild. Yup, agreed. Definately not a legitimate arguement from Sil, and no, we dont care. :evillaugh
thasis 12-20-05, 05:11 AM	I'm going to mention this again, especialy considering that this thread needs renewing soon, create to guild threads for this guild. One for OOG development, and one for in-game development. We need this guild up and running for the IFG soon. Also if therez any charter changes please contact me through my email ( dungeonmaster2847@hotmail.com ) and email your ideas. I don't want my guild becoming another guild well I'm gone. This is still my guild, I've been comming in an checking to make sure it's still my guild, and when I get back I want it to be the same GENERAL guild, not something loosely based off mine. If you want to create a new guild idea then I suggest creating your own guild.
premier666 12-20-05, 09:20 AM	Sooo... I guess there has been an argument a few posts ago? I'm glad I wasn't around then. I'm also guessing that we haven't been stated out yet right?
jagggar 12-20-05, 10:55 AM	I'm going to mention this again, especialy considering that this thread needs renewing soon, create to guild threads for this guild. One for OOG development, and one for in-game development. We need this guild up and running for the IFG soon. Also if therez any charter changes please contact me through my email ( dungeonmaster2847@hotmail.com ) and email your ideas. I don't want my guild becoming another guild well I'm gone. This is still my guild, I've been comming in an checking to make sure it's still my guild, and when I get back I want it to be the same GENERAL guild, not something loosely based off mine. If you want to create a new guild idea then I suggest creating your own guild. Soon? No,no,no, shoulda been this post ideally. I think I might take you up on the email just to make sure ya see that we need a new GoPG next time you're on. As far as having requirements before being willing to play with other players, I think it goes against: 1. As with the New Guidelines, foundation will not be exclusionary when it comes to membership. Wizards Community actively promotes inclusivity of members into all forums on the boards, except where there is age limit due to board content. Thus, there will be no “black-listing” of new members or “kick out” of an existing member. This is pretty much how most of the foundations run at this time, and thus there should be nothing new here. While not explicit, I feel this is meant to extend to the IFWG as well. It is in a way a foundation for foundations, a guild for guilds. . .
Ravenscroft 12-28-05, 12:24 AM	So , nothing happening in the GoPG then?
Zombomaniac 12-28-05, 12:27 AM	So , nothing happening in the GoPG then? No not really. Most good is now at the GoPG:Ultimate, Knights Von Drache, Halls of Refuge, and the Fortress of Light. Evil and Neutral are still the same.
Ravenscroft 12-28-05, 12:34 AM	thanks mate.
Lady Rolindin 01-13-06, 06:54 PM	From the posts starting with post 1, this is what i've found. you need a way to cummunicate with other guilds, would the knights of von Draca be willing to use rings of communication. that way both guild could have their leaders talk to each other by holding the rings. I can place the rings in this form if you would like. I did not make them someone else did and theywould solve your proublem. no scrying envolved ,just use the rings to talk to each other.
Lady Rolindin 01-13-06, 07:38 PM	I had the same ideal years earler, but used rings made of brass. the rings are rings placed on the fingers, used by armies mostly. the armies cummunicated with each other and the command levels have coresopesding rings for each rank. genarals to balation commanders, battalion commanders to generals and to company commanders. and so furth. sil use these types of rings to talk to the leader of von drace. Note: This is two items, but they must be used in concert in order to get full use out of them. ) The Rings of Correspondance When one runs a network of spies and informants that spans multiple continents, couriers and homing pigeons simply don’t suffice. -Cunraden Valieryth, elven spymaster. The history of these items is a shadowy one. They are the tools of spies, thus their very existence is difficult to confirm. Bardic Knowledge, DC 35, or Knowledge (history), DC 40 will reveal clues to their use, but the details of their creation have been lost for centuries. The first set of rings was commissioned by an elven monarch eons ago. His original intent was to facilitate communication with his widespread children. Upon his death, the Master ring dissapeared. A efw centuries later, the elven spy network began to communicate with an efficiency beyond the capabilities of mundane methods. The spymaster of the elves had somehow discovered the rings and has begun equipping his agents and spies with Sending rings. However, no one ever found the Master ring. The spymaster never wore it. The crafty old elf had given the ring to his pseudodragon familiar, in addition to a ring of Greater Teleportation. The familiar retrieved the dispatech and brought them to his master. As far as is known, the current spymaster still uses the same system. Over the course of time, other sets of these rings have been created. In some cases, it it thought that a captured or killed elven spy was found to have a Sending ring and a sage or wizard was able to determine its full use and recreate the Master ring. In other cases, allies of the elves have suddenly stopped using couriers with an improvement in communication. Either way, as there are no unique spells required, any enterprising wizard could recreate the rings if given the idea and a suitable comission. ----- These rings always exist as part of a set. Both types appear to be normal signet rings made of brass. Each set includes several Sending rings and one Master ring. Sending Rings Sending rings have two powers. The first is an enhancement of the base function of the signet ring. In addition to the mundane wax seal, an invisible Arcane Mark (PHB pg 201) is cast with every use. This mark is always the same as the ring’s insignia, but need not be. The mark is set on the surface below the wax seal. Even if the wax is later broken, the Arcane Mark will remain. Also, if the wax seal and the Arcane Mark are not perfectly aligned, it is an immediate clue to any tampering that may have occurred. In addition, once per day, at the first use for that day, affixing a seal also invokes a Sending that targets the wearer of the Master ring. This works as the spell (PHB pg. 275-276) except that no response is given and the message only indicates that a new dispatch has been prepared. A Sending ring can only ever be keyed to one Master ring and this must be done at creation. (see below) Master Ring The Master ring is literally the key to the usefulness of these rings. The wearer of the Master ring receives sendings from any Sending ring as soon as the power is used. Once a Sending has been received, the wearer of Master Ring may benefit from the effects of Discern Location to find the nearest dispatch at will. This works as the spell (PHB pg 222) except that the only item that can be sought is the closest dispatch marked by a Sending ring. Once a dispatch has been collected, touching the Mater ring to the seal will end the ability to find that particular dispatch and allow the next nearest to be sought. Note that transportation to a given dispatch is not provided. Master rings will only receive sendings from rings of the same set. In order to include a ring in a given set, the master ring of that set must be touched to the newly forges sending ring at the time of its enchantment. Sending Ring: Faint evocation; CL 9th; Forge Ring, Arcane Mark, Sending, the Master ring that will be the target of the sending must be touched to the new ring at time of enchantment; Price 10,500 gp Price Calculation: 5th level spell, caster level 9, 1 use/day, 50% reduction for significant restrictions on use beyond those in spell description + 0 level spell, caster level 1, use-activated, 50% increase for secondary power ( ( 5 x 9 ) / 5 x 2000 x .5) + (.5 x 1 x 2000 x 1.5) ( 9 x 2000 x .5) + ( .5 x 2000 x 1.5) (18000 x .5) + (1000 x 1.5) 9000 + 1500 10,500 Master Ring: Strong Divination; CL 15th; Forge Ring, Discern Location; Price 120,000 gp Price Calculation: 8th level spell, caster level 15, 50% reduction for significant restrictions on use beyond those in the spell description 8 x 15 x 2000 x .5 120 x 2000 x .5 240,000 x .5 120,000 Use in the game While the original set was made by the elves, there are copies. Any secret society or government with appropriate wealth could make use of these rings. If a character works for one of these governments or societies, they could be given a Sending Ring. If the party kills or finds the body of a spy or agent of the crown, they could find one. Acquisition of a Sending ring, however, is only part of the puzzle. Master rings should only be found worn by those who organize communications for a particular network. If a Master ring is acquired, it can be used to make more Sending rings for that set. It cannon be used to track the owners of existing Sending rings. Because of the specific nature of the item, neither ring should be found on a random chart. Finding a full set of rings is rare. More likely, a set is either commissioned or created from the Master ring. A typical set will include the Master ring and ten Sending rings at a base cost of 225,000 gp. __________________ "I think it's time I explained a few things because, to be quite frank, I enjoy hearing myself talk and you can't really stop me." --Bartleby, God of Chaos Spoiler:
Demonfey 01-13-06, 11:31 PM	Here's what seems to be the situation, Lady Rolindin: Sil seems to have quit this game, the GoPG has died due to stagnation and no work to progressing the good of the land or even the guild itself as well as awkward situations between the leader of the time and other guilds that just blew out of proportion and people not thinking about how fallable all beings are, and is currently going to probably give way to the Halls of Refuge, which seem to be complete and ready for conflict and strife, except it may not see any due to being extremely useful for all sides as a kind of "Red Cross".
Lady Rolindin 01-14-06, 12:42 AM	Sil has to take time off for personal reasons, someone else should take charge of the guild and thenmake the items. there not hard to make just expensive that's all. two brass rings would not cost that much to make for the two leaders of the guilds so they could talk to each, or make more for every guild you aline your guild with. any other guild can use the rings too. :D
Demonfey 01-14-06, 01:01 AM	I was actually thinking of bringing in lots of telepathic beings (probably psions), getting some kind of telepathy web set up between them, and then having them act as basically the central communication hub for a guild. It wouldn't be all that cost effective, but it would be cool.
jagggar 01-14-06, 01:08 AM	I believe this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=557457) is the new GoPG topic.
Lady Rolindin 01-14-06, 01:27 AM	jagggar I believe this is the new GoPG topic It is in a way, the guild (or for that matter any guild could make rings of communation and talk to each other; only the guilds they give the brass rings to (the leaders), I hope other guild do the same espacally this guild and theystop scyring the other guilds and causing distrust betweentwo guilds. this way any guild could be in contact with any other guild leader to leader. I use them for army's commanders to talk to each other better than shouting out instructions to thier sub leaders and better than banners and flags to communate the commands. which guild whould want to talk to orcy's character and have them made for thier guild leaders frist?
Demonfey 01-14-06, 01:57 AM	Hm...I'd love to have the GoUE prank call him from time to time...but I don't have the kind of budget at the moment for such a purchase. Spent it all on the airships.
thasis 05-23-06, 01:31 AM	Demonfey! I call upn you with a Summon Monster IX spell! *casts spell* :evillaugh Also, here's a ressurect of the Guild of Pure Good. Maybe it will inspire some good-guy posting.
premier666 05-23-06, 07:49 AM	good guy posting? hardly. But an evil guy visiting his enemies for tea? Most certainly. Rolindin, that spell Whispering Wind would be a cheaper idea I think.