Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Safa Swordjackal 12-30-05, 01:46 AM	This is Zollex under a different username. I was a co-founder of the original HEF, and the foundation was my idea in the first place, but without Sil the HEF would have never been started. I thought Sil was dedicated enough to run a foundation well, and suffice to say, I was right. I salute Silmarien and his efforts. He is very much welcome to come back and post. I left the Guild House for quite some time, but now I'm back! I do not regret leaving, or the point I attemped to make in the process. However, I never wanted the HEF, or the CoA, or any of the other foundations I posted on to die. That's why I'm here. I have archived the last thread entirely, and I will post links on one of the next posts. It was 6+ MB of HTML, but I have a (hopefully) reliable server to host it all on. I could have sworn my ISP only allowed me to have 5 MB of data, but it's been working so far. What I'd like to do for the HEF is restore it to its former greatness. That is, cranking out so much half-elven material that we'll have bookfulls in a matter of days! I will be creating a Library of Half-Elven Lore off-site, so that is easily viewable and available to everyone. The creators of the works will be fully credited and indexed. If you don't want something you posted on the last thread put in the library, please contact me via PM. So now I'm going to reserve a couple of posts for links, then we can kick this thread off! EDIT: One last thing: There will be no member listing. It's pointless when anyone can post, join, and run. Who is active on the thread should be clear with a bit of reading. EDIT2: Another last thing: I won't be participating in the IFWG anytime soon. If another poster wishes to represent the HEF in the games, you are very welcome to do so.
Safa Swordjackal 12-30-05, 01:47 AM	Links to Archive of the Last Half-Elven Foundation Thread: Part 1 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/1.html) Part 2 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/2.html) Part 3 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/3.html) Part 4 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/4.html) Part 5 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/5.html) Part 6 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/6.html) Part 7 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/7.html) Part 8 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/8.html) Part 9 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/9.html) Part 10 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/10.html) Part 11 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/11.html) Part 12 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/12.html) Part 13 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/13.html) Part 14 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/14.html) Part 15 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/15.html) Part 16 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/16.html) Part 17 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/17.html) Part 18 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/18.html) Part 19 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/19.html) Part 20 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/20.html) Part 21 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/21.html) Part 22 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/22.html) Part 23 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/23.html) Part 24 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/24.html) Part 25 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/25.html) Part 26 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/26.html) Part 27 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/27.html) Part 28 (http://users.cableaz.com/~zollex/hef/28.html) Note that I still need to do some editing to make them interconnected, and I will be creating an index page to ease navigation.
Safa Swordjackal 12-30-05, 01:47 AM	<<Post Reserved>>
Safa Swordjackal 12-30-05, 01:59 AM	Okay, Let's get started. It's generally agreed upon that half-elves a slightly underpowered. My first solution was to give them +2 to one mental stat of the player's choice and -2 to another mental stat of the player's choice. However, that only works if you don't have any munchkin players, and they have to understand that they must role-play the stats. Now I'm thinking more along the lines of a skill boost or two. For example, +2 to Bluff makes some sense to me because half-elves are hard to "read" due to their not fitting in a single racial category of stereotypes. Even so, that won't increase combat ability of half-elves (unless you plan on fienting a bunch). That's where they seem to lack and why they seem underpowered. So, IMHO, in "Kick-in-the-door" games, half-elves need some numerical bonus. In RP campaigns, they can dominate due to the richness possible when it comes to person vs. self or person vs. society conflicts. Any thoughts on this? Or does someone want to bring up another topic?
Tenzhi 12-30-05, 02:34 AM	Heh, I don't even recall why you left. It was so long ago... Personally, I think half-elves are fine as is, and that humans have too many abilities. But putting my personal beliefs on racial balance on hold for a bit... A +2 Bluff for half-elves doesn't sound too bad. Another thing to consider would be allowing half-elves to choose one skill and have it always be considered a class skill for them. Reflecting some small portion of their human side's adaptability.
Safa Swordjackal 12-30-05, 03:17 AM	Heh, I don't even recall why you left. It was so long ago... Personally, I think half-elves are fine as is, and that humans have too many abilities. But putting my personal beliefs on racial balance on hold for a bit... A +2 Bluff for half-elves doesn't sound too bad. Another thing to consider would be allowing half-elves to choose one skill and have it always be considered a class skill for them. Reflecting some small portion of their human side's adaptability. Good to see you again, Tenzhi. The tumbleweeds have been running amock. I will have to get pictures to show you and your "Russian Thistle" who's boss. There's also a sidebar in Unearthed Arcana ("Skilled Half-Elves" on page 40) that suggests giving them a full extra skill's worth of points (+4 at first level and +1 at every level past that). That's probably a lot to give the half-elf as a whole, but for roll-playing, they's probably need it. To me, half-elves have always looked like watered down elves. There's nothing really unique to them as far as the numbers go. Mentioning UA reminds me of something about the half-elven paragon class. It's Open Game Content, so I'll post it here: Hit Die: d8 Class Skills: Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, and Swim. BAB: 3/4 per level Saves: Fort low, Ref high, Will low First Level: Bonus Feat, Divided Ancestry, Elven Vision Second Level: Persuasion, +1 Spellcasting Level Third Level: Ability Boost (+2) Bonus Feat: Just another feat. Divided Ancestry: The character can take levels in either the elven paragon or the human paragon. Elven Vision: Racial bonuses to Search and Spot are upped to +2 each. Persuasion: Racial bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information are upped to +3 each, and +2 to all other Cha-based skills. +1 Spellcasting Level: Spells per day and known increase as if another level in whatever spellcasting class the character started in had been gained. Ability Boost (+2): The character gains +2 to any ability score permanently. Sorry for the summary rather than the full context. I need to go to bed pretty soon. The thing that bugs me is the third level. There's no real point in taking it as a primary spellcaster, which seems to be somewhat of a focus for this class. The reason is because a character will usually gain more spells if they just take a level in their spellcasting class than if they put the boost in their main spellcasting stat. Some of the earlier abilities are much more powerful than this, especially level two's. Perhaps if Persuasion were broken up into two parts and spread across levels two and three it would make level three worthwhile.
Tenzhi 12-30-05, 03:59 AM	Good to see you again, Tenzhi. The tumbleweeds have been running amock. I will have to get pictures to show you and your "Russian Thistle" who's boss. Hehehe. I miss the smell of tumbleweed. To me, half-elves have always looked like watered down elves. There's nothing really unique to them as far as the numbers go. It makes sense - humans are mostly water, after all. I daresay they don't necessarily deserve anything unique to them mechanically, either, as they aren't really a unique race. Sil would argue against that, saying that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts or something like that. And I suppose it's fair to explore that avenue, even if I perforce don't like it. ;) Another option I might consider is making half-elves natural sorcerors. Give them the ability to cast and know 0-level spells as a 1st level Sorceror. An outgrowth of elves' wizardly leanings plus humans' natural aptitudes.
Safa Swordjackal 12-30-05, 04:27 AM	Maybe an alternate LA +1 half-elf with the spell-like abilities and some other things, such as my old +2 to one mental stat, -2 to another. Some good bonuses to skills and maybe even a weak bardic song would bring it closer to balanced. The spell-like abilities for half-elves at LA +0 would be tough without losing the essence of the half-elven race. If you dropped the skill bonuses, it would take away from some of the flavor. Or it could add to it, with a new more reserved half-elf rather than the open "negotiator" half-elf portrayed in the 3.5 PHB. I'll try playing with this some more tomorrow. If I don't get to bed soon, I won't get the full ten hours of sleep that comes with winter break. :D
premier666 12-30-05, 11:49 AM	Hya, gald to see the HEF back! I'm one of the newest members, so you dont know me. Now, onto the business at hands. I never quite liked the stats of the Half-elfs, I mean, even being as good it is to make their story, their stats are so crappy. its probably one of the races that are less used. the one comic strip that defines their problem is this (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=255).
Safa Swordjackal 12-30-05, 12:40 PM	Hello, Premier! I'm glad to see some new faces as well as old. The reason why they're in the PHB as balanced is because of they are great RP characters. A half-elven bard is said to be one of the weakest characters possible statistically. In a high-RP campaign, they're one of the strongest. The real reason that they're considered weak is because no one plays them right. Or at least that's what I'm getting from the PHB. Not every DM gives out RP experience. Not every group RPs. That's why half-elves need a fix. I've been thinking about the half-elf with spell-like abilities, and I'm liking bard songs instead. No other race can use bard songs, and it fits with the half-elven idea about being able to associate with pretty much anyone. But if we did, that would prevent the racial skill bonuses if we wanted to keep it LA +0. If we did use spell-like abilities, then a good bet would be on a "recluse" half-elf, rather than a "negotiator." Drop the skill bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information. A limit on the favored class down to primary spellcasters would likely be necesary. One last idea: Spellcasting Prodigy for free instead of the skills. This might fit in an LA +1 half-elf better than the LA +0 one, though.
premier666 12-30-05, 08:20 PM	Hello, Premier! I'm glad to see some new faces as well as old. The reason why they're in the PHB as balanced is because of they are great RP characters. A half-elven bard is said to be one of the weakest characters possible statistically. In a high-RP campaign, they're one of the strongest. The real reason that they're considered weak is because no one plays them right. Or at least that's what I'm getting from the PHB. Not every DM gives out RP experience. Not every group RPs. That's why half-elves need a fix. I've been thinking about the half-elf with spell-like abilities, and I'm liking bard songs instead. No other race can use bard songs, and it fits with the half-elven idea about being able to associate with pretty much anyone. But if we did, that would prevent the racial skill bonuses if we wanted to keep it LA +0. If we did use spell-like abilities, then a good bet would be on a "recluse" half-elf, rather than a "negotiator." Drop the skill bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information. A limit on the favored class down to primary spellcasters would likely be necesary. One last idea: Spellcasting Prodigy for free instead of the skills. This might fit in an LA +1 half-elf better than the LA +0 one, though. I not good with LA rules, but I dont think spellcasting prodigy is good enough to justify a +1 LA
Safa Swordjackal 12-31-05, 04:05 PM	I not good with LA rules, but I dont think spellcasting prodigy is good enough to justify a +1 LA No, but with a few other bonuses it would. Like the spell-like abilities/bard song and a few skill bonuses. With Spellcasting Prodigy, a +/- 2 to mental stats would be too much, as that would mean an effective +4 to a mental stat when it comes to determining bonus spells. That would more than compensate for the LA +1 by itself.
Dyne 12-31-05, 04:51 PM	I always considered giving Half-Elves +2 Cha and -2 Con, or +2 Dex and -2 Con (like full Elves). Figured they deserved some kind of ability adjustments, since humans really are the only ones that should have all average abilities.
Safa Swordjackal 01-01-06, 02:44 AM	I always considered giving Half-Elves +2 Cha and -2 Con, or +2 Dex and -2 Con (like full Elves). Figured they deserved some kind of ability adjustments, since humans really are the only ones that should have all average abilities. Mental stat adjustments for LA +0 races is usually a bad idea. It's a good part of a level for spellcasters. You can argue the same for physical stats, but the part of a level the spellcaster's getting is spells and saving throw DCs. That really puts them ahead if they're munchkinized. Regardless, I can see were you're coming from. If you trust your players to role-play and not roll-play, it can work very well. Of course one of my players tried to break the candle. He isn't allowed near this.
jagggar 01-01-06, 03:06 AM	I don't really think it's right to have a roleplay version of the race and a rollplay version of the race (any race for that matter). I'm actually kinda confused why they'd get a +/-2 to mental stats. It's kinda a mechanical/genetic thing in my mind. Elves aren't any better or worse than humans at mental activities, so why would the children of the two have such adjustments?* *Somehow it kinda makes me think of one side of the "give the sexes different modifiers" debates. If you think women are weaker or whatever, then that's where you should put your stats.
Tenzhi 01-01-06, 03:24 AM	Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. For half-elves to truly be an individual race in their own right, they have to be more than just human or elf. For similar reasons to those that I think might make them natural sorcerors, I can see how they might have a bonus to Charisma. I also don't buy into the "anything with a mental ability bonus must be at least LA +1" mentality. It's quite bunk.
Safa Swordjackal 01-01-06, 03:34 AM	Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. For half-elves to truly be an individual race in their own right, they have to be more than just human or elf. For similar reasons to those that I think might make them natural sorcerors, I can see how they might have a bonus to Charisma. I also don't buy into the "anything with a mental ability bonus must be at least LA +1" mentality. It's quite bunk. I'm just trying to say you have to be very careful with it and it could be munchkinized. It usually only matters in middle levels for primary spellcasters, and if you have a low-level or high-level game it won't make a huge difference if the character has a high score in that ability anyway. It's at mid levels that those extra fifth, sixth, and seventh level spells matter a lot. I'll have to dig up my arguments for lows and highs on all of the mental stats. It really can go either way with all of them. EDIT: That was on the old boards. I'll just redo it.
Tenzhi 01-01-06, 03:47 AM	In most games, the +2 bonus will at most result in having two more spells than without it - one mid level, and one low level. All things considered, not a gratuitous advantage for the spellcaster. Certainly not even close to worth losing out on a class level.
Safa Swordjackal 01-01-06, 04:02 AM	In most games, the +2 bonus will at most result in having two more spells than without it - one mid level, and one low level. All things considered, not a gratuitous advantage for the spellcaster. Certainly not even close to worth losing out on a class level. Okay, Tenzhi, you're begining to convince me here. Higher mental stats don't grant higher levels of spells, either. But still, you have to be careful and not do something silly like my +/-2 to mental stats at LA +0.
Tenzhi 01-01-06, 04:12 AM	But still, you have to be careful and not do something silly like my +/-2 to mental stats at LA +0. Well that's kind of a given. That's almost like min/maxing your players' characters for them. ;)
Safa Swordjackal 01-01-06, 04:27 AM	Well that's kind of a given. That's almost like min/maxing your players' characters for them. ;) I did that once. Well, I sort of helped him. Or tried. Strength is a bad drop stat....
turalisj 01-01-06, 04:41 AM	Guess I'll come back here too.....And strength realy is a bad drop stat. Modifies how much your character can carry. *yaws* well, see you all in the morning.
Safa Swordjackal 01-01-06, 05:50 AM	Guess I'll come back here too.....And strength realy is a bad drop stat. Modifies how much your character can carry. *yaws* well, see you all in the morning. Lucky for him I was so busy getting the game started that I forgot about carrying rules. He had 6 STR.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 01-03-06, 07:36 PM	Zol - Read my post at the CoA. I won't repeat it all here but after you read it know that I want the HeF's help too - not only to preserve the guildhouse or the CoA but to reunite all the ancient foundations to their former glory. -Frosty
Safa Swordjackal 01-04-06, 02:29 AM	Zol - Read my post at the CoA. I won't repeat it all here but after you read it know that I want the HeF's help too - not only to preserve the guildhouse or the CoA but to reunite all the ancient foundations to their former glory. -Frosty That's exactly what I want to do with the HEF. We were moved to the Guild House to be foundations/guilds. Not a part of some text-based MMORPG. A message board is not meant to handle something like the IFWG. Especially when it's competing with other threads.
thasis 01-05-06, 01:56 PM	I've been part of the Half-Elven Foundation pretty much since I joined so I'll be back. I can only get on the interent at school though so don't expect me being a terribly consistint or active poster. When I get internet back at home (if ever *rolls eyes*) then I'll be on like all da time.
Lady Rolindin 01-08-06, 12:19 AM	I liked the old HEF and think this next version can be just as good, It would be good to make or use some of my half elfs characters and play them. could the HEF use a Red Knight/War Wizard, she could help the guild. This guild will proubally be seen asan emeny to the goue and others as the frist guild was, so the guild needs all players who like to play half elves. Maybe we could make something like silver star fire, or get sil permission to use the power. Or we could descover anouther power like the silver star fire and use it for the guild.
jagggar 01-08-06, 02:13 PM	I was just down in the UA section where someone was talking about changing half-elves. Someone brought up mental bonuses being too much. You have a longer post on that issue somewhere, Teznhi? I think it would be interesting to see that developed more indepth. In that topic I said two main things. That half-elves shouldn't become the absolute best race (since all races should be more or less equal) and that they should fit the setting's concept of half-elves. And to some degree that gets me thinking about the half-elf skill bonus. They seem to get along better with everyone, so the get their +2 Diplomacy and Gather Info. But the fluff says they don't make good go-betweens between elves and humans because both sides think they're favoring their other heritage. Does that mean they should lose their diplomacy bonus? Or should the human and elf parties each take one step in a less favorable attitude when they find out who the half-elf is diplomating for? In the end those all end up being setting issues because the books don't go further than that. One idea that popped into my mind is change the +2 Diplomacy and Gather Info to any two skills of the player's choice, and half-elves get a bonus 'skill-feat', the type that gives +2 to two skills or Skill Focus.
Tenzhi 01-08-06, 05:04 PM	I've had various posts on the matter, but they're months old or more by now. And this forum doesn't even have the basic functionality of a "show all posts by a specific user" button.
Safa Swordjackal 01-09-06, 10:59 PM	Thasis, Lady Rolindin, welcome back. I found that thread you were talking about, Jaggar. They had some interesting ideas. I posted there, so I'll repost that here:Sure -2 Con would hurt a primary Cha caster a lot, but +2 Cha can also help clerics with turning, and paladins with lots of their abilities, and they aren't rolling d4s. Free Spellcasting Prodigy instead of the Diplomacy and Gather Information checks give them the talent for magic that was mentioned in the PHB over and over again for no obvious reason in their statistics. This does pretty much eliminate the "negotiator" half-elf, though. I don't really like the +1 to Cha-based skills too much. Plus two to Cha-based skills is part of the half-elf paragon class in UA, and is seems to me like it's much more suited to the paragon class. Another idea I'm considering is instead of the Diplomacy and Gather Information bonuses, a half-elf player can pick two Cha-based skills to receive a +2 bonus to. These two skills are always considered class skills. It makes half-elves more versitile and personable.
Lyssiah Storm 01-11-06, 04:31 AM	Don't know if you guys remember me or not... I was a member of the HEF back a couple of years ago (under the same nic I think). I haven't posted in a long time, but here I am. As for my take on the Half-Elves, I have made a few variations myself. I usually grant them the weapon familiarity that the Elves get. I think that would stick because of the general nature of Elves. Not to mention they thought that was an ok idea in 2nd Edition AD&D (sighs as she remembers those Half-elven glory days). I think they were much better then. I did a few other things but I don't remember them right off hand... one might have been the skill point idea mentioned above. Other than that I am a die hard HE lover. I know they were kinda axed and I had hoped that 3.5 would mend that problem, but alas, they haven't seen the light... at least not yet.
Silmarien Aldalome 01-11-06, 08:25 PM	No Zollex, Won't be posting here. I wasn't consulted about this and the HEF's fate, actually has some uncertainty about it, even yet. Also - I'm not at all done creating HEFish materials - or things with Elven Blood. I don't know if you saw, but, before the thread was locked for the Prune, I was busy developing two things 1. A variation on a gaming system for allowing the use and access to very novel gaming powers. 2. A system of powers called "Weave Shapes" - as one of several new HEF concepts. I'm far from done developing any of it. But there's plenty of room at the Forum for all of it. I'll be around, and I'll cut a new Foundation - in time - for the purposes I need. If you want to fix the problem that has been created here, please PM me so that we can do that sorting out, off the threads. thank you stavros
Lady Rolindin 01-11-06, 09:10 PM	2. A system of powers called "Weave Shapes" - as one of several new HEF concepts. is something like the weave wizards I proposed on the frist thread. or something different that a wizard class can use the weave to make different shapes form spells? what about the weave caster's, I perposed on the last thread. they would make agood class to combine any two types of weaves. since from what I've learn in science class that the sun has different types of energy we call radation. bata, Phada, Alpha and the others i can't remember. we could study the list our sun outs out and them gice them names for d&d terms. new energy sources to tap into. make classes to use the specif weaves. just an ideal that came to me.
Silmarien Aldalome 01-11-06, 09:44 PM	2. A system of powers called "Weave Shapes" - as one of several new HEF concepts. is something like the weave wizards I proposed on the frist thread. or something different that a wizard class can use the weave to make different shapes form spells? what about the weave caster's, I perposed on the last thread. they would make agood class to combine any two types of weaves. since from what I've learn in science class that the sun has different types of energy we call radation. bata, Phada, Alpha and the others i can't remember. we could study the list our sun outs out and them gice them names for d&d terms. new energy sources to tap into. make classes to use the specif weaves. just an ideal that came to me. Hi there LR, I'm waiting to hear from Zollex, before going any further here. I'll be cutting a new thread for all the great ideas we've developed. It'll probably be called Peredhil Halls - or some variation of that concept and created to develop new gaming systems for "Research and Development Whilst Gaming on-the-fly", in time. regards stavros
Safa Swordjackal 01-15-06, 10:19 PM	I'm waiting to hear from Zollex, before going any further here. Your PM box is full, so I e-mailed my message to the address you gave out when talking about some sort of new setup for the IFWG on the old thread. I just want to get this over with. If there's still major problems between us, Silmarien, I'll leave. I have enough going on in real life to be arguing on the Internet.
Orcy The Green Wonder 01-15-06, 10:40 PM	Your PM box is full, so I e-mailed my message to the address you gave out when talking about some sort of new setup for the IFWG on the old thread. I just want to get this over with. If there's still major problems between us, Silmarien, I'll leave. I have enough going on in real life to be arguing on the Internet. As far as Orcy knows Silmarien has left the boards, again. He has claimed he was leaving many a time, so Orcy isn't so sure. But, since the HEF was long overdue for a restarting, and Silmarien refused to do so... you have just as much right to restart it as anyone.
Safa Swordjackal 01-16-06, 12:35 AM	Thanks, Orcy. I think he'll be back. Just a hunch. @Lyssiah Storm - I recall your username, but nothing more specific than that. Weapon familiarity sounds like another good quick fix. The campaign I was going to DM was cancelled Friday night, because two of the four players can't seem to make any of the days I set up, so I never had to make a decission on it. Now that I think about it, Spellcasting Prodigy in addition to the standard 3.5 PHB half-elf is looking good to me. It doesn't seem hugely imbalancing to me, and it fits with the flavor of half-elves.
anglar 02-24-06, 12:55 PM	I leave for reasons beyond my control, and when I return, what do I find? The home my wife has worked so hard to build uprooted and passed away like yesterday's newspaper. Oh well. Quick update on me while I (Anglar) have been away. I have FINALLY completed the longest quest of my life. I have found my daughter from my first marriage after 9 years of searching (IRL and game time ironically) the multiverse. Of course to get her back all I had to do was fight a 25th level kensai golden vampire, a direct blue dragon daughter of Tiamat, and an avatar of Tiamat herself, ALONE, and half my party turned on me. Yet I lived, much as I know you relish my demise Elf-Bane. I'll be dropping in again, especially after the wife and I get re-acquainted and caught up. Love to you all
thasis 02-24-06, 04:12 PM	Welcome back Anglar. Nice to see a friendly face. For a quick update, the third draft of the IFGW is in process of being creation, my first guild (Guild of Ultimate Evil) is now run by Thasis's core liutenent and taking over the world before the new IFGW is started up, and well, we're partying at the Rusty Axe. Alot of people have disapeared (either left or waiting for the new round) and Silmarian has seemed to have disapeared once again.
Tenzhi 02-24-06, 05:55 PM	Yet I lived, much as I know you relish my demise Elf-Bane. Ah, anglar. While the thought of your demise is delectable, there is something to be said for the savoury delights of prolonged anguish as well. ;) And welcome back, by the way. :dragon:
Moriok_Mephidross 03-08-06, 03:48 PM	A half elf walks into the room, a black field surrounding him in the form of insubstantial armor. In one hand he carries a spear, the shaft of which is made of a strange black metal. He stops and taps the end of the spear on the ground, black wisps coming up from the ground where it touches. His eyes trail a black smoke as he nods to himself and simply walks into the halls without a word. Finally, he stopes and pauses, looking around as if seeing the area for the first time. "Ah, this must be the place I've heard about. I hear it was overrun with all these versemasters and their 'shadows are evil' talk not too long ago. Well, I assure you that that... is complete and utter nonsense. Everything has a shadow, even angels have a shadow. So how can shadows be so completely evil?" Heres a different way of looking at 'verse power' prestiege classes. Not quite evil, but definately not good. Something that exists alongside the verse, but isn't it's opposite really. Shadow Sung Mind The Peredhil Versemaster stopped, placing her back against the wall and breathing hard to catch her breath. This was supposed to be easy, the verse is powerful, it should be able to destroy the shadow worshiper. But every strike against the man only seems to make him stronger. A blade of black glass slices through the wall and she knows she has taken too long. She lunges away from the wall and tucks into a roll, spinning in her heels to loose a shimmering set of golden missiles on her stalker. Strange black lines that shouldn't be there trail the spells and are absorbed into his body as the missiles themselves slam harmlessly into a murky barrier around him. Back to running. The Peredhil Versemaster turns and runs down the hall again. There ahead is the door, she runs for it but is stopped in her tracks by a wall of energy that rises before her. Cursing in every langauge she knows she turns and raises a hand to cast a spell, calling on the man-voiced song of her people. Suddely, an intrusive voise whispers beneath the verse, changing it. Twisting it in a way no Peredhil has ever seen before. The verse is silenced for but a moment, but long enough for the magical energies within her body to burst and tear her flesh. As she falls to the ground in pain, her stalker approaches slowly. He stops just above her, his glass blade sucking in the light around his hand. "Oh how you fail to see the truth. I am not your opposite. I am not something made only to kill you. I am your shadow, I am everything you are not. Where you worship a fool, and sing in harmony with others. I know the power of the self, and it is great indeed. You cannot exist without my kind, nor can we without yours. But... one less wont hurt anything." The glass blade rose and dropped in one swift motion, and the Versemaster knew nothing more but darkness. The shadow Sung Mind is everything those who wield the verse are not. They are not the opposite of those who wield the verse, but rather their shadows. They are what the verse-weilders lack. Instead of the power borrowed from the verse and the outside of oneseself (the weave for example), they draw their power from inside. The Shadow Sung Mind uses the power of his mind. Hit Dice: d4 Requirements: Race: Elf, Half-Elf, or other race with elven blood Alignment: any nongood Skills: Knowledge (psionics) 8 ranks, Psicraft 8 ranks, Perform (sing) 4 ranks Feats: Shadow Touched* Spells/Powers: Manifester level 5 Skill Points: 2+intelligence modifier per level Skills: Autohypnosis (wis), Concentration (con), Hide (dex), Knowledge (any) (int), Move Silently (dex), Perform (sing) (cha), Psicraft (int). Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Shadowed Mind, Shadow Points 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Weapon of Shadow (shadow blade) 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Darkvision 30ft 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 Weapon of Shadow (shadow bolt) 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Shield of Shadows 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 Darkvision 60ft 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 Weapon of Shadow (shadow blast) 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 Shadowed Song 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 Darkvision 90ft 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Strike Verse Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Shadow Sung Mind gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies, though he is proficient with his Weapons of Shadow. Powers: The Shadow Sung mind gains powers known and power points as if he had gained a level in the previous psionic class he had. He gains no other abilities from that class however. Shadowed Mind: The Shadow Sung Mind knows that everything has a shadow. It is this shadow that they make use of in their powers. The Shadow Sung Mind gains strength from every unused shadow. When an enemy casts a spell with the Shadowed Mind as it's target, he may make a concentration check (DC 15+spell level) to draw in the shadow of the spell. He gains a number of shadow points equal to the spells level if his concentration check succeeds. Shadow Points: Shadow Points are gained through the use of the Shadowed Mind ability. They can be used to replenish power points at a cost of 2 shadow points for one power point. They may also be used to power some of the Shadow Sung Mind's other class abilities. A shadow sung mind may only have a number of shadow points equal to twice his class level. Weapon of Shadow: The Shadow Sung Mind may form his or her mental energies along with shadow points into a weapon. As those who weild the verse use their energies, they leave behind an unused shadow. The power drained from a spell's shadow grants the Shadow Sung mind the ability to form weapons from un-worked verse energy. This may be done in three ways. Shadow Blade: This version of the Weapon of Shadow is a blade of black glass. It costs 1 pp and 2 sp (shadow points) to form. Formed in this way, the blade deals 1d6 damage with strength bonus added. This damage may be increased by 1d6 for every 2 pp and 4 sp spent in addition. The blade is roughly the size of a longsword and functions as an adamantine weapon in hardness, hit points, and ability to overcome damage reduction. This weapon lasts for one minute per level or until the SSM releases it from his grasp. Shadow Bolt: At level 4 the Shadow Sung Mind may for a shadow bolt from his shadow points and mental powers. Spending 2 pp and 3 sp, the SSM forms a bolt or arrow of shadowy energy. This arrow or bolt streaks out and sinks itself into a target unearringly. It deals 1d6+1 damage to the target. For every 4 pp and 4 sp spent to increase the ability, another bolt forms. These bolts may target the same creature or any other creature within 30ft of the first target. Shadow Blast: At level 7 the Shadow Sung Mind may use their shadow points to hurl a blast of sheer shadow energy at an enemy. This ability is formed by using all sp the SSM has available, spending 1 pp per 4 points used. The attack deals 1d4 damage per shadow point spent in this process. Darkvision: The Shadow Sung Mind's contact with the shadows and the un-used powers of the verse give them sight beyond what their kind typically have. They gain darkvision out to the distance listed in the table. At 9th level, in addition to darkvisoin out to 90ft, he can see in magical darkness as well out to 20 feet. Shield of Shadows: The Shadow Sung Mind may bring into existance a 'shield' of shadows. This semi-transparent murk provides concealment to the Shadow Sung Mind against anyone who doesn't have darkvision. This concealment causes a 20% miss chance on attacks against him. It's other function depends on the number of sp the SSM has when the shield is activated. The shield can stop a number of spells euqal in level to the amount of sp that the SSM had when the shield was formed. The shield stops a number of spell levels euqal to that sp. The spells or powers stopped are only damage dealing spells or powers like lightning bolt. Typically these are spells from the evocation or conjuration schools and powers from the Psychokinesis or Metacreativity disciplines. For example: A Shadow Sung Mind has 10 sp when he activates his shield of shadows. An enemy uses a fireball and he is in the area. The fireball dissipates harmlessly against his shield, but still effects the others in it's area. The shield can now absorb 7 levels of spell attacks before it dissipates. Shadowed Song: The strength of the Verses shadow fully reveals itself to the Shadows Sung Mind. Using his inner powers to manipulate that shadow, and bring his own song into the verse. His song is something maintained by his mind and echoes throughout the verse itself. Once per day he may call upon the power of the Verse's shadow to heal himself as per the heal spell cast by a caster of his manifester level. Because the verse is often used to fight and harm the enemies of the half elven people, a shadow is left that can be used for the purpose of healing. Strike Verse: In their final ability, the Shadow Sung Mind learns the very nature of the verse itself. He learns how to use the Verse's shadow to corrupt it and disrupt it's song. His voice resonates and halts the voices of the singers, temporarily negating all spells in the immediate area. Wether the caster is a half elf, and thus a user of the verse, or not. The disruption causes a great deal of damage to magic and users of magic. Everyone within 50ft of the Shadow Sung Mind who has any type of spell prepared or spell like abilities suffers the effects of this disruption. The Verse Strike causes all who fit those requirements to take 1d4 damage for every spell or spell like ability they have stored. For example, a level 4 sorcerer has used all his second level spells for the day, leaving him with 6 level 0 and 6 level 1. He is caught in the area of the Verse Strike, dealing 12d4 damage to him as the magical energies within his body are disrupted. New Feat: Shadow Touched: Your shadow has entered into your own mind. It gives you a greater understanding of the shadows of the world, but also tries to corrupt you and suggests the dark side of everything. Benefit: Your shadow grants you a +4 bonus on saves agaisnt spells with the shadow descriptor. In addition, a semi-shadowed murk grants you a +1 bonus on hide and move silently checks. Special: Because of your shadow's negative influence, your DM may once per day force you to roll a d2 (or flip a coin) to determine if you act normally or take an irrational action caused by your shadow. This could be in combat, or in a non-combat situation. The DM may decide what that irrational action is, but it should be something your character would not typically do, such as attacking an ally because of some imagined betrayl. Or perhaps accusing someone of plotting against you in a roleplaying encounter because of something your shadow has whispered in your mind.
thasis 03-08-06, 08:53 PM	Your like an evil Sil without the complicated languge we can't understand. I'll review the Prc when I get a chance. Right now I'm feeling limited on time. As for Sil, does anyone know where he disapeared to?
Moriok_Mephidross 03-09-06, 10:04 PM	This place used to be a lot more active, anybody got any comments on the PrC?
turalisj 03-09-06, 10:49 PM	Looks awesome. We should have a battle between a sil-prc and one of your prc's. edit: I'm going to try and convince one of my gm's to let me play test this. It's just too god to pass up.
thasis 03-10-06, 02:40 PM	I think the method of gaining Shadow points is to easy. If your in a spell dual you'll be replensishing ALOT of power points. I say either increase the concentration DC or maybe make it 3 shadow points per 1 power point. Makes it a little more fair, especialy with full manifester progression.
Lady Rolindin 03-18-06, 06:30 PM	It might be nice to make an character for the guils as I said before, hopefully sil will be back to help with the guild. or the guild of good. who knows maybe both guilds.