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| Silmarien Aldalome09-28-04, 06:45 PM | Hi there everyone. In the coming weeks, we will be hosting a series of threads that are about the coming together of Foundations for the sake of fun. This thread, however, is about consultation with you. If you have ideas about how to make inter-Foundation events fun, please let us all know. Two options I've been thinking on are an "Olympic-Games" like thing or, alternatively, something with more stakes, like an "Inter-Foundation War" (a friendly one) where points, a ladder and so on are involved. I'm thinking that with the aid of an on-line dice-roller, we could trial the items that many of you have so successfully developed at your home foundations. There could be rules-of-exchange that guide the duelling. I've imagined that a core of points goes to the victor, but that, in the spirit of D&D a second group of points could be allocated for style of delivery, colourful interactions, and RP concepts. ...for nigh on the horizon, the smoke vomits from the spires of the Dark Citadel and the Hosts of the Dark Lord are gathered. The Usurper's smithies ring out in the darkness. But beyond the Citadel you fly, over the mountain range of the Far East of the Great Forest as Pnatemul, the Dark Tower fades to nothingness. Into the clouds, then down the far side of the mountains on the Great Planes, where, amassed are the greatest armies you have ever seen. In steady stride, they march Westwards as the grounds shake under their feet. But these are not allied forces. For the Ranks of the Dragons in all their colours, fly alonside Dwarves, Elves, Halflings, Gnomes, Goblins, Orcs. There are Wizards of the Weave and by their side, in ordered ranks and equal numbers, the Shadow Adepts of the Shadow Weave. Then the Illithids and Psionicists. Creatures of all kinds. For over 10,000 centuries, all Sentient Creatures have made this march. The ancient ritual and customs of the Lands, where you are the representative of your race and may duel any and all according to the Customs...... |
| thasis09-28-04, 10:44 PM | This sounds fun. One magor problem, what do you do when your like me and you joined almost all the active guilds and lots of non active ones to (wich I hope to restart). As you can see in my signiture I'm part of 20 or so guilds and I run a couple or so my self. What am I and people in my similiar cituation supposed to do? My idea is that I act like the Yugoloths in the blood wars. Me and my armys (and other suprises) will hire ourself out as mercinarys keeping the battles and wars going forever, just the way we like it. I like that idea a lot. Whats your suggestion? |
| Silmarien Aldalome09-29-04, 05:54 AM | This sounds fun. One magor problem, what do you do when your like me and you joined almost all the active guilds and lots of non active ones to (wich I hope to restart). As you can see in my signiture I'm part of 20 or so guilds and I run a couple or so my self. What am I and people in my similiar cituation supposed to do? My idea is that I act like the Yugoloths in the blood wars. Me and my armys (and other suprises) will hire ourself out as mercinarys keeping the battles and wars going forever, just the way we like it. I like that idea a lot. Whats your suggestion? That brought a smile to my day - you GO dude! A very impressive list of, erm, affiliations..... OK - first off, thanx for the response, muchly appreciated. Next off - hmm, we can't have people 'punching' themselves in the face so to speak... I guess it will might be like D&D - where you A. Bat for one main team B. Change sides when least expected (or not), depending on the PC's ethos C. Perhaps one of the Rules of Engagement could be a "Negotiations Thread" where - just like in real life, groups, cultures or countries form alliances in all sorts of ways. So, I'm seeing a Combat Thread, a Negotiations Thread in this model - although it's only one of many options. Alternatively, we do have options at WotC for, I think, up to three Avatars. One could distribute those Avatars over any Foundations they like.... But - having said all that - I'm fully open to options..... regards stav |
| thasis09-29-04, 09:32 AM | I like my mercanary idea. I wasn't just making a lame attempt to be humereos. I always thought being a merc would be cool. |
| Silmarien Aldalome09-29-04, 07:32 PM | I like my mercanary idea. I wasn't just making a lame attempt to be humereos. I always thought being a merc would be cool. Mercenaries are an important part of every conflict. I took your request quite seriously, and value your presence here at Guild House. I think Mercenaries make an exchange very colourful and unpredictable, which is how all the best games go. So, I will very much look forwards to the stuff you got. regards stav |
| turalisj09-29-04, 09:25 PM | surely spies are needed? let us not forget them. spies are the best part of war. and plus we will need allainces. |
| king_of_evil00709-29-04, 09:47 PM | *confused* OK, so I'm new here so maybe I missed something from the past, or maybe I just missed a giant neon-blinking sign (it's happened before) but what exactly are these wargames? Online Risk? ;) |
| Sssargoth09-29-04, 09:53 PM | surely spies are needed? let us not forget them. spies are the best part of war. There are atleast 3 different foundations that would work perfectly as spies. The Assassins guild, the Harpers, and the Psionics foundation will most likely fill that nich. :mage: :mage: :mage: :mage: KoE, Sil is attempting to get some friendly competition between the different foundations and guilds, which is a very good idea imo. |
| turalisj09-29-04, 09:59 PM | There are atleast 3 different foundations that would work perfectly as spies. The Assassins guild, the Harpers, and the Psionics foundation will most likely fill that nich. :mage: :mage: :mage: :mage: KoE, Sil is attempting to get some friendly competition between the different foundations and guilds, which is a very good idea imo. and it just so happens youre in all 3 guilds......... |
| Sssargoth09-29-04, 10:04 PM | and it just so happens youre in all 3 guilds......... Don't worry, I'm going to stick with The psionics foundation, but I will be in contact with the other two for the best advantage. |
| anglar09-29-04, 10:04 PM | Do I get to be Anglar and Anglar?One could represent the Half-Elves while the other represents the Drow. |
| king_of_evil00709-30-04, 08:00 AM | It's a great idea, don't get me wrong. I'm just confused as to how message boards can compete with each other, aside from something like UnCon. Either way, eager to see what happens. |
| Silmarien Aldalome09-30-04, 06:45 PM | @Turalisj Hi there - good to see you. Also one of our main contributors, who I'm very appreciative of. spies....you bet. Covert infiltrations, reconnasance, disguise, bluff, diplomacy and - importantly - Ambassadorial roles. Truce Councils, Pacts, Parley, Challenge. @KoE Hi there dude. Welcome and thanks for the question. We're building the rules together as a group. Risk, as I understand it, is a lot of fun. So, if we can bring some of those ideas, that would be great. Another chunk of guidelines, would assist us to determine an actual outcome when two (or more) groups were in melee. In my sig, you'll find an on-line dice roller. Any power that you build at a Foundation, can be used to slam-dunk your enemies or aid your friends. @All So - when people are building new things at Foundations, there will be good cause for people from 'opposing' foundations to help out with Game-Balance ideas. I.e. De-Munchkinising. @Sssargoth Hi there S. Bring on the psionics. The Crystal Library rocks very. My psion character in the D&D campaign I spoke of, is a heck a lot of fun to play - he goes well and is enigmatic because his Lore is unknown to the others. The psionicists' auras flare to life as they focus. Mauve meets red, blue and green, as they accumulate their collective power. The Metaconcert is alive with sound, form and colour as the mental energies swirl into crescendo and erupt from their location. But this is a new force unleashed and one not known the Enemy of the Psionicists. For they have been long at work, focussing their Lore and developing new Powers hithertoo never seen in the world. @Anglar Epic Level Spells will certainly have a place. Access to them, we'll need to think carefully about. As to Sil's feelings for Anglar - she says to Anglar "No force in the Universe can prevent the existence of aspects of ourselves that do not walk the same road as one's own walk. The world is people by beings of all shapes and sizes and forces both known and unknown. I fear that more than just him will trouble us and find ways to destory peace." Regards stav |
| turalisj09-30-04, 08:20 PM | what are we using for character guidelines? if we can have prc's then expect a psionic assasin coming soon. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-01-04, 10:39 PM | what are we using for character guidelines? if we can have prc's then expect a psionic assasin coming soon. Hi there Turalisj. Good question. Character Guidelines in the way of ideals, kind, flavour, powers are the domains of individual Foundations to determine. So, an Assassin Psion is a great concept, that could be built at the Psionics Foundation (or posted there once you get it). It's up to posters to speak to Game Balance at each Foundation's home site to determine what power, level advancement and all the concepts that go into a PrC. But - once a PrC leaves a Foundation for action, it can go into combat the way it was defined at Home. Some Ideas for Guidelines for Inter-Foundation War Exchanges, Version 1.0 1. Any Guild House Member can Challenge another Foundation or Individual to a Combat. 2. Foundations could keep lists that determine who their Allies and who are their Enemies are. 3. Lists may be duplicitous. That is, Foundations can be tricked into thinking they have an ally they don't really have (i.e. SPIES). That is, you may betray Foundations in Combat. 4. Spies can steal ideas for adding Power Points to a Home Foundation. 5. Power Points are used to determine effects on Large Scale Battles. 6. Individuals can Duel for Status and Power Stakes 7. Groups can use their Foundations Power Points to influence a Large Scale Battle 4. But, once Discovered that an Ally is a spy, the Spy must go through a Spies Discovery Process which might mean you are Imprisoned at at Foundation 5. If Imprisoned, you may be Rescued or treated in accordance with the Ethos of the Foundation you are imprisoned at. For example, if you are imprisoned in one of Thasis's scary, evil Foundations, you're in BIG TROUBLE. If you get nabbed by The Half-Elven Foundation, we'll give you a trial. 6. The Inter-Foundation War needs Stakes 7. You may try to enhance your own Resources for food and water, or you can saboutage someone else's. 8. Mercenaries do as they please. 7. Some Suggested Stakes a. Regions of Land with access to rare materials for adding Power Points to a Foundation. Such as Platinum, rare metals and so on. b. Regions that hold Access to Lore which allow you to accumulate Power Points in big BURSTS. c. Artifacts KICK ASS ONES - type, number open for discussion - also as GM - I'M GOINT TO SURPRISE YOU HERE d. Towers of Note, like Elfy Towers by the Sea, full of Magic. e. Access to Fertile Lands (YOU HAVE TO FEED YOUR TROOPS). f. Access to Fresh Water (YOU HAVE TO DRINK). g. There is a High King/Queens ship at all times of the One Land that has access to Kingly/Queenly powers. This KINGSHIP ROTATES, depending on the Foundation with MOST POWER POINTS h. Kings and Queens may be GOOD, EVIL, CHAOTIC or LAWFUL as is their wont. Accordingly, you may define LAWS for the MINIONS if you are Sovergeign, or you can make it a STATE OF ANARCHY if you are Chaotic. Depending on the Sovereign, life will be easy versus difficult for different foundations at different times. 8. All this happens on Specialist Interaction Threads and some of it on at your Home Foundation 9. We will need an on-going Meta-Rules Thread to discuss course changes and make changes as you guyz reckon (ozzie drawl) is best. COMMENTS Feel free to add, subtract, discuss and so on. Stav |
| turalisj10-01-04, 10:50 PM | great. right now we at the psionics guild are building our own secret weapon. it is sure to win us every fight. o, and my assasin will have not yet reached his first level. thus, someone must fall. :cool:the psionic rouge (dnd created) (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-01-04, 11:03 PM | great. right now we at the psionics guild are building our own secret weapon. it is sure to win us every fight. o, and my assasin will have not yet reached his first level. thus, someone must fall. :cool: This brings us to another point: How Does Secrecy Work in these Guidelines? Suggestion: Posters migh have a Status at each Foundation as either Trusted Enemy Only Trusted posters have access to the Lore of the Inner Circle of a Foundation. So, even though we can all see what everyone's up to, a Foundation cannot attempt to steal the lore unless a. You are Trusted but are really a spy b. If you aren't, you only get to the Front Door of a Foundation's Keep, and can only be let in on Invitation. Or, do battle at the door to get past. |
| Tenzhi10-03-04, 03:10 AM | Hrm. If the contests are to be judged not only for the victor in battle, but for the aesthetic victor you will need an impartial judge. As I am not a member of any foundation and indeed find you all equally contemptible, especially the elves, I volunteer my services for such. But what grading system to use? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-03-04, 10:01 PM | Hrm. If the contests are to be judged not only for the victor in battle, but for the aesthetic victor you will need an impartial judge. As I am not a member of any foundation and indeed find you all equally contemptible, especially the elves, I volunteer my services for such. But what grading system to use? You star! Thanx Tenzh. To first bold-face :rofl: + *pouts* *swooshes hair* To second bold-face: When I read good flavour-text, here are some factors that seem to bear upon it. 1. Vibrancy, poignance and vividness. 2. Artistic, creative, novelty value 3. Flow 4. Originality 5. It's capacity to engage the reader 6. Awe, wonder factor 7. Ability to evoke real emotion *at Reader* We need your input. Let us know what you think would or wouldn't work. Regards stav |
| Sssargoth10-03-04, 11:11 PM | 1. Any Guild House Member can Challenge another Foundation or Individual to a Combat. 2. Foundations could keep lists that determine who their Allies and who are their Enemies are. 3. Lists may be duplicitous. That is, Foundations can be tricked into thinking they have an ally they don't really have (i.e. SPIES). That is, you may betray Foundations in Combat. 4. Spies can steal ideas for adding Power Points to a Home Foundation. Works for me so far 5. Power Points are used to determine effects on Large Scale Battles. These should be called Combat points or something similar because most of the Psionics foundation members use Power Points for our different psionic abilities. The Illithids and other psionic races use PP as well. I just don't want confusion to occur. 6. Individuals can Duel for Status and Power Stakes 7. Groups can use their Foundations Power Points to influence a Large Scale Battle 4. But, once Discovered that an Ally is a spy, the Spy must go through a Spies Discovery Process which might mean you are Imprisoned at at Foundation 5. If Imprisoned, you may be Rescued or treated in accordance with the Ethos of the Foundation you are imprisoned at. For example, if you are imprisoned in one of Thasis's scary, evil Foundations, you're in BIG TROUBLE. If you get nabbed by The Half-Elven Foundation, we'll give you a trial. 6. The Inter-Foundation War needs Stakes 7. You may try to enhance your own Resources for food and water, or you can saboutage someone else's. 8. Mercenaries do as they please. 7. Some Suggested Stakes a. Regions of Land with access to rare materials for adding Power Points to a Foundation. Such as Platinum, rare metals and so on. b. Regions that hold Access to Lore which allow you to accumulate Power Points in big BURSTS. c. Artifacts KICK ASS ONES - type, number open for discussion - also as GM - I'M GOINT TO SURPRISE YOU HERE d. Towers of Note, like Elfy Towers by the Sea, full of Magic. e. Access to Fertile Lands (YOU HAVE TO FEED YOUR TROOPS). f. Access to Fresh Water (YOU HAVE TO DRINK). g. There is a High King/Queens ship at all times of the One Land that has access to Kingly/Queenly powers. This KINGSHIP ROTATES, depending on the Foundation with MOST POWER POINTS h. Kings and Queens may be GOOD, EVIL, CHAOTIC or LAWFUL as is their wont. Accordingly, you may define LAWS for the MINIONS if you are Sovergeign, or you can make it a STATE OF ANARCHY if you are Chaotic. Depending on the Sovereign, life will be easy versus difficult for different foundations at different times. 8. All this happens on Specialist Interaction Threads and some of it on at your Home Foundation 9. We will need an on-going Meta-Rules Thread to discuss course changes and make changes as you guyz reckon (ozzie drawl) is best. Other than the lack of coordination in the numbering, looks good. |
| Orcy The Green Wonder10-04-04, 10:43 AM | "You realize Sil... this may mean Orcy has to slap you around a bit. Not that that would be much problem." Orcy stretches, then flexes with a large grin on his face. "HOOAH!" Not a bad idea, Orcy think he remembers Sil pitchin this idea around when the guild house first started up. But that was a little early. Now... yeah Orcy thinks we should be able to handle it. He hasnt had a chance to read over everything yet, but it looks good so far. Orcy will comment more later. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-04-04, 06:17 PM | Thank you Sssargoth - that's what we're looking for by way of feedback. "Combat Points" and, erm, I've always been a little messy about order *grins* - if you have any suggestions for neatening them up, or reordering it into understandable clusters, let us know "You realize Sil... this may mean Orcy has to slap you around a bit. Not that that would be much problem." Orcy stretches, then flexes with a large grin on his face. "HOOAH!" Not a bad idea, Orcy think he remembers Sil pitchin this idea around when the guild house first started up. But that was a little early. Now... yeah Orcy thinks we should be able to handle it. He hasnt had a chance to read over everything yet, but it looks good so far. Orcy will comment more later. ORCSTER! Great to see you! Wouldn't be the same without you! Note to minutes - "Orcster ratified the Protocol with the Ceremonial HOOAH at 18 hundred hours. Sil's response - *cracks* Jan-Marien1: what did he mean by that, by "HOOAH"? Jan-Marien2: rrrreeeaaahhhhh Sil-LIsa-Simpson-ian: I think, Jan, he was ratifying appropriate peace-keeping practices for Inter-Foundation Exchanges. Sil-Marsha: *pouts* Oh Jan *swooshes hair* *pulls it together* @all posters We've had a lot of support for the idea from most of you. One or two "abstain" votes so far, but I suspect that might change, down the track. Please voice your assistance, ideas, questions or concerns, before we get going. I'm thinking some PM's should go out to several we haven't yet heard from. But, judging from the number of 'reads' on this thread, i'd say the news is out and about. Stay Tuned, and Voice your Ideas Stav |
| Von Crown10-04-04, 07:54 PM | Looks this should be good... :drool: (already drooling over the chance to put my undead army to good use) :invasion: And with Libris Mortis coming out this friday... |
| Silvanus10-06-04, 09:47 PM | Cool! I like the idea of Foundations creating things and then throwing them at each-other. However, I do think we need some kind of objectivity- a panel of GMs, perhaps, to approve a new creation before it's thrown into the fray. I fa foundation requests approval for something way over-powered, they could even lose points... |
| Tenzhi10-07-04, 01:25 AM | Cool! I like the idea of Foundations creating things and then throwing them at each-other. However, I do think we need some kind of objectivity- a panel of GMs, perhaps, to approve a new creation before it's thrown into the fray. I fa foundation requests approval for something way over-powered, they could even lose points... An objective panel of GMs that prevents the creation/use of over-powered stuff... well, I guess that rules out Gellion and Silmarien. ;) It'll certainly require someone with a keen eye for potential rules-abuse/munchkinism - which leaves me out, I'm afraid, as effective rules-lawyering is a skill I lost somewhere along the way. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-07-04, 05:45 AM | An objective panel of GMs that prevents the creation/use of over-powered stuff... well, I guess that rules out Gellion and Silmarien. ;) :rofl: Hi there Silvanus+Von Crown - excellent!! Back to Tenzhi *grins* It'll certainly require someone with a keen eye for potential rules-abuse/munchkinism - which leaves me out, I'm afraid, as effective rules-lawyering is a skill I lost somewhere along the way. Sil-Mr-Burns-ian: exxcceeelllent Tenzhi. That's what we need, bias that favours my bank balance. Where's Lisa - she usually knows how to fix these things. Seriously - I think the following standards in judging will help 1. Equity in how the rules are applied 2. By having multiple raters, the law of averages will help. 3. Allowing appeals, where someone feels they have a fair point (hence the meta-rules thread). 4. Easy-going-ness. Also - I've had an idea. I'm thinking of allowing one home artifact per Foundation. Choose and build it wisely. Doesn't mean you can't try to steal/wrest someone elses or that GM's won't have *surprise* ones in challenging places for Victors!! What sa ye? stav |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-07-04, 03:07 PM | Well Sil I sorta mentioned this at the CoA thread but to make it a little more public - I shall offer my services up as a judge as well. Prehaps I'm actually in foundations unlike T...but your not gonna find too many like him. Also are judges strictly out of the game? I mean it would be interesting if they were part-ingame too...think of the things we could have. Courrption fighting honesty, judges allying to support one another while trying to fight others. A fine little political side to the game would seem fun too :P. -Frosty |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-07-04, 06:41 PM | Well Sil I sorta mentioned this at the CoA thread but to make it a little more public - I shall offer my services up as a judge as well. Prehaps I'm actually in foundations unlike T...but your not gonna find too many like him. Also are judges strictly out of the game? I mean it would be interesting if they were part-ingame too...think of the things we could have. Courrption fighting honesty, judges allying to support one another while trying to fight others. A fine little political side to the game would seem fun too :P. -Frosty Frosty - and a very :cool: arbiter you will be. It's good to see you and your question bears upon Conflict of Interest (CoI). In some models of managing CoI, there's a panel of judges and a fully independent chair, who simply watches over to make sure everyone's not up to shinanigans. In other models of CoI, judges themselves aren't stakeholders in any way to the parties. In other models again, the one judge is Chair and Judge (a duel role). And, for games, the key question, I think is to what extent and in what ways can a DM get involved with gaming exchanges There's no one answer, but I'd value yours and everyone's thoughts. The discussion, in advance of gaming, will assist us all, I think, to raise our awareness of how to have fun, without making a botch of it. I'll be re-posting the Rules in a little while, after the discussion. I personally reckon that a judge might be able to participate in outcomes not directly impinging on one's home foundation. But, again, it's only a game, not a public, international sporting festival. So, we have room to be reasonably flexible and sensible about it. Post on posters...... stav |
| Silvanus10-08-04, 12:34 AM | I would go for total objectivity. Ultimate power and the freedom to use it is like having your cake and eating it, too. If you're a GM you are trusted to be fair. If not, then just play. That's my take on it, anyway. |
| Orcy The Green Wonder10-08-04, 11:24 AM | Orcy doesnt believe he will have time to take part in the actual playing of these here war games. However, he would like to say he thinks he would be able to do some GMing, after all he is official. *points to tag* Orcy's work and such here will be what probably keeps him from most of the playing part. But as he has said, he can do some GMing maybe. Sil may have to tone down the posts to some simpler... less lengthy things so Orcy doesn't get confused ;). |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 07:50 AM | Orcy doesnt believe he will have time to take part in the actual playing of these here war games. However, he would like to say he thinks he would be able to do some GMing, after all he is official. *points to tag* Sounds good Orcy - we'll look forwards to your presence and it's great to have you on board. I need your help to do this gig, especially now we have a real game focus. @all - want to add that individual foundations are a great asset and that no foundation shall be forced to have fun. But, having said that *all* foundations and threads are *invited* to contribute. Orcy's work and such here will be what probably keeps him from most of the playing part. But as he has said, he can do some GMing maybe. Sil may have to tone down the posts to some simpler... less lengthy things so Orcy doesn't get confused ;). Will do Orcy. If there's work I need to do, so that the games guidelines are written up in clear, concice terms, then I'm happy to do that. So, it's important for everyone to ask questions to seek clarification where someone is confused. here's revisions, on advice from posters, to a) Simplify the wording (bearing in mind that "The Universe should be as simple as it can be and no more" (Albert Einstein) b) Reorganise the Guidelines into logical clusters c) naming conventions for scores and tallies (e.g. Power Points changed to should be changed to Combat Points) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 08:32 AM | Guidelines for Inter-Foundation Games, Version 2.1 Guidelines are grouped into parts, those being: Spirit of Foundation Games, Foundation Actions & Combat Points, and Foundation Record Keeping (for Game Stats) Spirit Of Guild House Inter-Foundation Games The Aim is to gain mastery or to make peace, to accumulate power, knowledge, territory, or even divinity as you and your Foundation sees fit. The Inter-Foundation Games always have a High King or Queen - a Sovereign Power, who determines the Mode we operate in (see below). Your people and you, our King and Queen, are those cultures that you create and belong to, and are from the places that you visit. Anyone may sieze the opportunity to wrest mastery from the current King or Queen and to shape the World as you deem well in your wisdom. We also have a Pantheon, which you may end up on. If you dare to challenge one or several members of the Pantheon and win, you may join the ranks of the Divine. Or, alternatively, you may attract a member of the Pantheon to you, through outstanding acts of courage, glory or self-sacrifice. If you are unlucky or wrecklessely use your Major Artifacts or extremely high powers, you may find a Deity comes after you. If you lose in a combat with a Deity, you are then at The Deities' Mercy. But, if you win, you too, could join the Ranks of the Divine, and host a Plane at The Pantheons Foundation. But, no fortune, fame or purpose comes without taking risks and there will be (game) rewards for success and possible (game) penalties for failure. Your people are counting on you, because the world is peopled by many creatures both friendly and hostile, and everywhere is hope and despair, mystery and discovery. It is your world to build, create or even command (especially if you are the High King or Queen), but you need to have courage to influence it. You are as powerful as you make happen and how you use your power is about the collective wisdom of the Foundations you work with. You are strongly encouraged to collaborate and interact, but won't be punished in any way if you prefer a solo style. Some people like one thing and others another and it's all welcome here. Two Levels of Operation 1. The most important thing to remember is that Interfoundation Games work on two levels. The first level is the most important and is about fun, friendly exchanges, no matter what is going on at the second level. We can't do this without trusting each other and without being good to one another. Our WizOs will only support us in our adventure, provided we show due respect for what the WizOs ask of us through the Code of Conduct. If we do that, I have every confidence that they will show us support and that they will be happy that we are having fun. 2. The second level operates in any combination of seven different modes. At any one point in time, depending on who the High King or Queen is, we'll have a different world, defined by the Sovereign's Actions (outlined next section). A Mode is any of the various combinations of: Mode 1. we're at peace Mode 2. we're at war Mode 3. we're having an inter-Foundation Truce for Games (i.e. Olympic-games sort of thing) Mode 4. we're in a State of Monarchy (Law) Mode 5. we're in a State of Anarchy (Chaos) Mode 6. we're in a State of Benevolence (Good) Mode 7. we're in a State of Tryanny (Evil) We could be, for example, in Mode 2. and Mode 7. at once. *You* determine the Mode through your very actions in your posts. Each one of these seven Modes, gives us an overall flavour, and Judging Panels will make different rulings that affect Foundations, depending on which state we're in. For example, in a State of Benevolent-Anarchy (Chaotic Good), there are far fewer limits on what you can "do" to another Foundation compared to when we're in a state of Benevolent-Monarchy. In a State of Benevolent-Monarchy, (Lawful Good) there are Laws (not real ones), that if broken, may expose you to Sovereign Powers, such as Banishment and Punishment. On the other hand, if you do something benevolent to the Sovereign, and get noticed for it, you or your Foundation or both may get Knighted, Ordained or Rewarded. You will need to have access to Resources such as vast regions of land, with access to rare materials, access to Lore which allow you to accumulate Combat Points in big BURSTS, Artifacts (KICK ASS ONES), Legendary Towers and Citadels, and Surprises from your GMs. There is a High King or Queenship at all times of World, that has access to Kingly/Queenly powers. This Sovereign Rotates, depending on the Foundation with most combat points. This all happens across multiple threads and we will also host an on-going Meta-Rules Thread to discuss course changes and make changes as you guyz think is best. Foundaiton Actions and Combat Points Think of a Foundation as having Combat Points and taking Action like you would Hit Points and Actions in Core Rules D&D V3.5. You have to gain Combat Points and take Actions to influence the world. When a new Foundaiton starts, it has zero Combat Points. But, as you make items, discuss and create spells, make undead (if you are from that Foundation) or work out ways to channel Holy Divine Power, you gain status, prestige, and glory as measured through Combat Points. But, you can't just write them down as contributing to your Combat Points, until you actually build and create the things you have designed or discussed. When your items, spells, spell-like effects, weapons, armour, minor and major artifacts are finished, the GMs (or Impartial Panel of Judges) will grant you a BURST OF COMBAT POINTS. So, you'll need to designate build-time, raw materials, and make the thing happen. There's no Deus Ex Machina i.e. no munchkinising. *But*, that doesn't mean "built it just like D&D" - you *may* still create very powerful Artifacts (or steal them from another Foundation) or Classes that go beyond D&D *however* misuse of the power, will attract the Pantheon to your attention and you will be exposed to Divine Intervention (see Actions, below). Depending on the degree of audacity, you will have a percentage chance of defeating a deity. If you win, you get Divine Ranks. If you lose, your Character/Foundation may be subject to.....SURPRISES. So, there are three kinds of Actions: Foundaiton Actions, Sovereign Actions, and Diving Actions. Foudation Actions Provoke a Foundation Design (Item, Power, Lore, Magic, Artifact, Class, Skill, Feat or otherwise) Build Infiltrate a Foundation (I'll let you know how to keep this secret) Steal Imprison Intruder Rescue Kidnap Parlay Forge Alliance (with another Foundation) Attack Defend Cast a Spell, Spell Like Effect, Use Wondrous Item, Minor Artifact, Major Artifact, Skill or Feat (for player-to-player combats) Sovereign Actions Create Monarchy (e.g. cut a "Laws", "Rewards", "Punishments" post) Create Anarchy (e.g. cut a "Rule of Anarchy" post and spell out what that means) Create Benevolent Rule (e.g. cut a "Humanitarian" post) Create Evil Rule (e.g. cut a "Rules of Tyranny" post) So, when we're in the Benevolent-Monarchy Mode, we might have humanitarian laws coded up in the Sovereign Actions post. In a Benevolent-Anarchy, our "Sovereign" would cut a post with benevolent law breaking coded up in the Sovereign Actions post. If an individual or Foundation rebel-rouses and defies the The High King or Queen, then the Sovereign can Enforce Its Reign by trying to Imprison Punish Banish Pardon Grant Clemency to Release Reward the rebel(s). But an individual or Foundation can resist Sovereign Enforcement, but must then combat the HIgh King or Queen. This may trigger an inter-Foundation war or rebellion (which is one of the many ways we can have fun with this). In the heat of battle, different Foundations might make a grab for the Sovereign by innovation, growth or victory. Divine Actions At the beginning, the GM's will assist here, by posting Divine Actions. BUT - *any* player may accumulate Divine Ranks, and join in the freedom to post Divine Actions. But Divine Actions aren't posted liberally. A GM can overule a Divine Ranks post, if refereeing is required. When In-Game, a Deity has some freedom for Divine Intervention: Battle Player-to-Deity Rewards a Player Character with Divine Ranks for outstanding glorious acts Punish a Player Character for Wreckless use of Power (i.e. De-munchkinise) Try to Block the use of a mortal's or Foundation's power Foundation Record Keeping (of Game Stats) - We'll need to keep lists for Allies & Enemies at each Foundation. We'll need tallies of Combat Points and to keep track of Foundation Actions. - The Soverign will need to keep The Sovereign Thread Powers, Laws and Mode current. I would like to invite Orcy to cut the Sovereign Thread - BUT - the power to cut Sovereign Powers isn't Orcy's or mine (OR FINWE IF HE JOINS IN), it's a FOUNDATION'S. The Sovereign Thread will tell a Time-Line of changes in what our World looks like. Guidelines for Judging This is where we're up to! Two groups 1. For Flavour Text 2. For Combat/Actions We all start with zero combat points, no allies and no friends, but we'll need to keep lists of these at our Foundations as this changes. Note. Because there are two sets of points allocated for every combat (melee and flavour text), you can win a combat if it's close on combat points. The Foundations that produced the best flavour text as they posted, will get rewarded in points at the time of melee. The Judges will make this ruling. Tell us your thoughts. Where does it need to be simpler? Where is it unclear? Where is it simple enough? Where is it clear? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 09:20 AM | PS. Thasis holds four of the nine possible Alignment Threads. There are five more to cut. Who wants 'em? To influence the current Alignment Mode, you'll need to post on Thasis's Alignment Threads, to influence their growth *grins* (Thasis, that should get activity on the Alignment Threads - which are really important threads!!) Orcy, how do you feel about i) keeping a Combat Point total next to each Foundation in the Compendium Thread? ii) Adding posts to the Compendium thread, that keep a running record of current Alliances and Enemies and note the current Sovereign? In this way, you could read through Orcy's thread, and see how the world changes over time. Orcy, we could cut a new thread if you want to keep zero posts on the Compendium, for neatness's sake. Up to you. It might be more fun to have a non-stickied thread for it, that floats. It will be possible for an Alliance to combine Combat Points, and if they are the most powerful Consortium, they must choose who in their Alliance gets the Sovereignty.... |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 10:15 AM | PPS. If your PC is rewarded with Divine Ascention (i.e. if you get Divine Ranks) you may become a Deity, and host a Home Plane at the Pantheons Foundation (we'll probably start Monica Starmantles Pantheons thread again, if we can't find her). So, if you are a Deity of any level Quasi (0 Divine Ranks) Demi (1-5 Divine Ranks) Lesser (6-10 Divine Ranks) Intermediate (11-15 Divine Ranks) Greater (16-20 Divine Ranks) or if you are The Overdeity (21+ Divine Ranks) or One Of The Overdeities then you are the most powerful enties in the Inter Foundation Games. As such, you, or any Deity less powerful than you, may directly contribute to encounters between Player Character and Deity, Foundation and Deity, Consortium and Deity or Sovereign and Deity. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-09-04, 11:18 AM | Hmm Sil I think you may have stumbled on to something there with DR. Prehaps thats how we shall divine our judges. Not only would this give them more of a background/reason it would also solve how much activity they have. We also could have non-judges become gods but they would remain non-judges. Joining divine ranks would be somthing like this - When the gods (judges) get together to discuss a matter of some sort like which foundation won which ever fight if there was a very powerfull, strong person they might bring him up. Overtime of getting favor of the "gods" that person might slowly gain demi-god rank. Then slowly they might advance in power. Becoming a "chosen" shouldn't be possible beacuse the gods would have a much harder time being neutral that way. Also IMO Gods shouldn't represent an aspect or an alignment. That would unbalance things. The so-called god of magic would obviously tend to side with the CoA. A question though: For everything requiring judges to all judges need to approve? Just a set amount? Just one? For a person conflict/fight lets say does it require -1 Judge as its small -All judges as is for everything -3 judges small but fair -A set amount of judges agreed apon by the participents? Also if somthing calls for only a certin amount of judges who picks? The Gms? The first responding Judges? Just my thoughts, -Frosty |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 11:28 AM | Frosty, they're very thoughtful points. It could work. In your model, PCs with Divine Ranks, could watch the 'battles below' and announce things like who got however many combat points (and why). In this model, the Deities might cast their Judgments in flavour text. This would be their impartial role. But, Deities may also be a part of the actual game too (see below). About the god of magic thing: It's OK, I think for the Deities to have game actions (i.e. Divine Actions). But, we don't have deus ex machina here (munkinising). The Deities can't alter the fate of Mortals - except when in combat with Mortals (see the Divine Actions guidelines in the rules post above). About Judges' Decisions: I imagine that decisions are by majority, without need to be unanimous. Does that make sense? |
| thasis10-09-04, 11:37 AM | Thanx for promoting the guild sil. Your the best. Also, do you think I should make Guild of Utter Chaos and Guild of True Law so we can complete the alignment guilds, or should be leave it at 3 alignments guilds for the main alignment conflicts. I've been tosing up the idea I don't realy know. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 11:46 AM | Thanx for promoting the guild sil. Your the best. Anytime. You've earned it for the contributions you've made. And your idea to make those Foundations was a really good one. Alignments are central to D&D. The game gets so much fun from them. Also, do you think I should make Guild of Utter Chaos and Guild of True Law so we can complete the alignment guilds, or should be leave it at 3 alignments guilds for the main alignment conflicts. I've been tosing up the idea I don't realy know. Hey, that's a great question. It could be great to have factions within alignments, that might make an Interfoundation conflict very colourful. Where, sometimes, different factions of alignments worked with other alignments. Then again, it's neat with the ones PHB has.....that's such a hard one...... I trust your judgment for it Thasis..... |
| thasis10-09-04, 12:25 PM | My idea is that maybe I should make Houses (like harry potter) that repesent Law, Neutrul, and Chaos within my foundation. Like if someone is in my Good Foundation they get to choose what sub-alignment they want to be (I call Law, Neutrul, and Chaos sub-alignments). You could create competion within a single foundation (I have watched to much harry potter havn't I, oh well LOL). |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 02:03 PM | My idea is that maybe I should make Houses (like harry potter) that repesent Law, Neutrul, and Chaos within my foundation. Like if someone is in my Good Foundation they get to choose what sub-alignment they want to be (I call Law, Neutrul, and Chaos sub-alignments). You could create competion within a single foundation (I have watched to much harry potter havn't I, oh well LOL). to the bold: *chuckles* that's like saying legolas wasn't an elf! I lost count of how many times I've read LotR after about 20. to the rest: That's a great idea (sub-alignments) within Alignment Threads. I think that's going to work really well. Besides, it might be fun - a Reign of Utter Chaos! regards stav |
| thasis10-09-04, 03:21 PM | I hate the chaotic alignment because it's so chaotic and unpredictibale but I'll deal. Plus I don't realy know much about chaos. I used to hate the good alignment untill I started the Guild of Pure Good. After that I realy liked the good alignment. I don't play it much but I still realy like the good guys. Learning experiances from everything. Now onto something about Guild Wars. When does it start? Do you have any precise or date or even a estimate to when it will start? Also, is this guild wars going to be a permenent ongoing thing or a temporary thing that happens once in a while like Uncon and that sort of stuff. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 11:11 PM | Hi there Thasis: Estimated start time = SOON, provided we don't have too many objections. But, we need to know if everyone understand how it works? Glossary of Terms Actions – A Character’s, Foundation’s or Deity’s activities. Actions are broken down into three parts: Foundation Actions, Sovereign Actions and Divine Actions 1. Foundation Actions = Actions taken by your Foundation in-Game Provoke a Foundation = tease, goad, attempt to intimidate. Non-friendly Actions Design (Item, Power, Lore, Magic, Artifact, Class, Skill, Feat or otherwise) = time spent discussing, planning or mapping new game power Build = manufacturing Designed power from necessary raw materials Infiltrate a Foundation = any covert spying, or infiltration of a Foundation’s inner circle in secrecy Steal = an attempt to violate the security features of a Foundation in order to steal an item or power of interest Imprison Intruder = capturing infiltrators Rescue = rescuing imprisoned Player Characters Kidnap = kidnapping Player Characters, the High King or Queen, or an attempt to kidnap a Deity Parlay = request diplomatic negotiations with another Foundation Forge Alliance = create a consortium of two or more Foundations Attack = launch assault or invasion of another Foundation Defend = launch defensive maneuvers to fend off attack Cast a Spell, Spell Like Effect, Use Wondrous Item, Minor Artifact, Major Artifact, Skill or Feat (for player-to-player combats) = just like in D&D, you can go into Player Character mode and act as an individual. When you do this, you may end up battling another individual, foundation, the High King or Queen of a Deity directly. 2. Sovereign Actions = these are special powers that the High King or Queen has access to as follows: Create Monarchy = create Laws, Rewards, and Punishments in a post on the Sovereign Thread Create Anarchy = create the “Rules” of Anarchy in a post on the Sovereign Thread. You will need to spell out what it means to be in your state of anarchy Create Benevolent Rule = create the “Rules” for good conduct in-Game Create Evil Rule = create the Law of Tyranny in a post Enforce Reign = The High King or Queens may enforce their rule by using special reserve powers. The High King or Queen reserves the right to act on their reserve powers as they wish. They can do any of the following: Imprison = lock up a rebel, enemy, or interloper Punish = subject the Player Character to punishments or public trials Pardon = pardon a Player Character Grant Clemency to = make an exception for special circumstances Release = free the Player Character Reward = bestow a gift, ordain or Knight a Player Character 3. Divine Actions = these Actions have greater power than Foundation or Sovereign Actions. They are subject to GMs referee guidelines Battle Player-to-Deity = a Deity may do direct one on one battle with another entity Rewards a Player Character with Divine Ranks = when a Player Character has done heroic or glorious deeds, she may be rewarded by a Deity and be given Divine Ranks Punish a Player Character = a Deity may punish a player or Foundation for Wreckless use of Power. This is a De-Munchkinising function that stops the game ending by premature use of power Try to Block the use of a mortal's or Foundation's power = Deities have special powers and can try to stop a Foundation from using their own power Combat Points = the amount of power, treasure, resources (spells, spell-like effects, mercenaries, arms and armour, Artifacts, Epic Spells that a Foundation has access to. Combat Points determine the outcome of battles. There are two kinds of Combat Points: Standard and Role Play. Standard Power Points are your raw reserves of power. Role Play Combat Points are won by the style you use to use your Actions Divine Ranks = when a player experiences Divine Ascension, she or he will get Divine Ranks. Divine Ranks signal the amount of power you have as a Deity High King or Queen = is the most powerful Mortal in the lands. The High King or Queen has access to Reserve Powers called Sovereign Actions. The High King or Queen may use their Sovereign Actions in accordance with their own discretion. Levels of Operation = these describe two levels of game play First Level = the way we treat each other, irrespective of what’s going on in-game. Good sportsmanship is the standard Second Level = these are in-game Modes of Play, and at any point in time we can have a different Mode, depending on how the Sovereign creates the State of the Lands Modes = distinct states or combination of states of the land as follows: benevolent = good tyranny or malevolent = evil monarch = law anarchy = chaos war = in the middle of a war peace = peace across the land inter-Foundation Games = an Olympic Games kind of between war celebration |
| Gellion10-09-04, 11:26 PM | Well Sil you certainly have been busy havent you? Like I said earlier, the Human Foundation will not be participating in this, but I wish you luck. :) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 11:33 PM | Well Sil you certainly have been busy havent you? Like I said earlier, the Human Foundation will not be participating in this, but I wish you luck. :) The Godless Clerics could have an important role. Why won't you be participating Gell? You've made it a point now, to say that twice. We're not going to force you, though. And people can still post on a foundation solo style. Is it because you don't think there's enough activity at the Human Foundation? regards stav |
| Gellion10-09-04, 11:40 PM | The Godless Clerics could have an important role. Why won't you be participating Gell? You've made it a point now, to say that twice. We're not going to force you, though. And people can still post on a foundation solo style. Is it because you don't think there's enough activity at the Human Foundation? regards stav I just wanted to have a post here so it could be on my queue mainly. I mainly do not want to participate for the reason you said, there is not enough activity in the Human foundation. Not to mention I would not be able to participate very regularly, I have an erratic posting habit, you know that. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-09-04, 11:49 PM | I just wanted to have a post here so it could be on my queue mainly. I mainly do not want to participate for the reason you said, there is not enough activity in the Human foundation. Not to mention I would not be able to participate very regularly, I have an erratic posting habit, you know that. Neither of those things are problems. There will be ways to ensure that erratic posting is well within game guidelines. Also - the Godless Clerics have a crucial role in the balance of power. I think you'll find that even two of you Humans can influence the game. I've given the Human Foundation a great deal of thought. Because your numbers are so low, the Godless Cleric may compensate for your Combat Points. If you should change your mind, I think that we could make it work with Humans in it. And, you'll find that people will seek you out *much more* to Parlay and Forge Alliances.....BECAUSE Sil walks over to Gellion, whose mysterious habits make him enigmatic. She sweeps the folds of her robes about her, as she leans on the Rune Staff and she raises Gellion's bowed head with gentle encouragement. "Look forwards Gellion, not backwards" Sil says as she holds his stare "for where only one Godless Cleric walks, who can say what is possible. And even the Ranks of the Divine may fear the magic of your Ilk, for you may be called to aid us, when our need is dire. Like all good alliances, some have to be worked on ;) stav |
| Gellion10-09-04, 11:52 PM | I will give the topic some thought, but I still can not garauntee any thing yet. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-10-04, 12:03 AM | I will give the topic some thought, but I still can not garauntee any thing yet. Take as long as you need. You may find a Diplomatic Party approaches the Humans in Parlay, at some point though..... when the Fate of the Lands hangs in the Balance..... ;) |
| thasis10-11-04, 11:32 AM | I have a asome idea for a problem solver for me being in almost every single guild. What happened is a deity who got angered at me created numereos clones of me each with there own agenda and sometimes each with there own alignment. They do have a mind link but they can't control each other or anything. Intressting idea? Or not? |
| turalisj10-11-04, 04:23 PM | twenty thasis....... pelor help us if that ever happens.......... ;) |
| thasis10-11-04, 04:37 PM | Whats wrong with twenty of me. It would mean more, well, me. That could be benificial ot well. I don't know. Me!!! HEEHEHEH. Anyway. Does anyone other then me think more of me would be good. |
| king_of_evil00710-11-04, 05:55 PM | Twenty Thasises? I mean, how many guilds is he a part of now? Imagine twenty of them . . . Thasis would take over the world! |
| thasis10-11-04, 06:17 PM | Twenty Thasis's would take over the world if they all worked together, but just because there clones, dosn't mean there agenda's are the same. They are all completly diffrent in there agenda. Most of the time they would be to busy plotting against one another to get together and claim the world as there own. And lets say they take over the worlds. Whats to say there isn't someone else out there who could just come over and kick my ass and say "The World is Mine" and then the cycle repeats over and over again of people being kicked off of being ruler. I dosn't realy work that way. :) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-11-04, 06:37 PM | Twenty Thasis's would take over the world if they all worked together, but just because there clones, dosn't mean there agenda's are the same. They are all completly diffrent in there agenda. Most of the time they would be to busy plotting against one another to get together and claim the world as there own. And lets say they take over the worlds. Whats to say there isn't someone else out there who could just come over and kick my ass and say "The World is Mine" and then the cycle repeats over and over again of people being kicked off of being ruler. I dosn't realy work that way. :) Nicely said. There are natural forces that mean that particular Foundations should or should not easily work together. For example the Guild of Evil would not form an alliance with the Guild of Good - except *maybe* under the most extraordinary of circumstances (e.g. all the Prime was about to be gobbled up by another force outside the Evil Guild's control). That exceptional exception (pun intended) aside, perhaps our "thasis's" are from different multiverses - all with the same physical form - but with radically different ideologies. Like Anglar and Anglar. Perhaps, if it gets confusing, we could colour code Avatars with different Home Foundations. Does anyone else have any suggestions??? stav |
| Sssargoth10-11-04, 08:42 PM | Does anyone else have any suggestions??? make a web page with all the rules and systems we are creating, to keep things nice and neat. I'm not volunteering, as I don't know how to make a web site... :( |
| thasis10-11-04, 08:48 PM | I know how but I don't have the time, energy, or proper reasorces (or money to host a site). Plus I don't actualy know all the rules. I still have yet to read them all. |
| necrodude1610-12-04, 01:48 AM | WEbsite, maybe why though we have all the info here. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-12-04, 05:22 AM | We can organise the information neatly right here. And - if anyone has the inclination - set up a Web Server - where we can centralise artwork for the gig. Trouble with posting URL's is that you can't have the artwork on your home PC unless the PC is a webserver. Geocities gives you public webspace - one can publish from there - but the URL is messy and the space limited But - if anyone has access to a Webserver, and would be happy to host a website - who am I to stop you. In any case - first things first - let's get the rules put together in sensible, easy to read ways. Does anyone have ideas for additional Foundation, Sovereign or Divine Actions. Those Actions are the focus for how to cross-post (in-game) into another Foundation. I'm imagining something like this: E.g. Silmarien posts to the Palace of the King and Queen, appealing to the Sovereign for aid. To do this, she would add the Action in-post that she is activating. Foundation Action Diplomacy (see we already need an extra one. I don't have diplomacy on the list) Then - she would post the request and the Judging Panel would rule on success versus failure. Judges would need to consider: 1. How influential Sil was in the lands. 2. How powerful she is as a PC. 3. How much the request directly affects the Sovereign (i.e. stakes). 4. How flavourful/convincing the request was worded. E.g. 1. She goes to the King requesting 10,000 soldiers to help because (Evil) Thasis just launched an assault on the Half-Elven Foundation. versus 2. She goes to the King requesting 5 minutes of the King's time to warn him that the Guild of Evil is conspiring. Judges ought to grant a "no" to the first request *unless* Sil is highly influential, has massive power reserves, has helped the King before and - if the King is next on Thasis's hit list - Judges ought to say "yes" to the second - unless worded as follows "King. I think you're an idiot. You've got the hordes of darkness on your doorstep and I need to talk to you about it. Don't turn me down" Make sense? |
| Silvanus10-12-04, 06:45 AM | But shouldn't the Sovereign him/herself decide? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-12-04, 07:48 AM | But shouldn't the Sovereign him/herself decide? hmm - yes. You're right. So - let's shift the focus of the Judging Panel. Their responsibilities: 1. To award Combat Points for new items/powers/magic/weapons. 2. To award Combat Points for flavour/delivery (during combats). All else decided by the posters? Any queries/concerns? Also - Any additions to Foundation Actions? Again - when In-Game - you'll need to put the Action in the Header of your Post - like when playing D&D when we say to GM "I cast a spell" or "Full Round Attack". Stav |
| necrodude1610-12-04, 08:33 AM | SOunds good Silm! :D :D |
| turalisj10-12-04, 05:43 PM | so what are the guidelines for character creation? are you going to doi the rolling sil? :confused: |
| king_of_evil00710-12-04, 06:02 PM | I"m still kinda confused. What happens if I try ot "enter combat" with somebody? DO we spend hundreds of posts like "I cast Magic Missile" "I attack" "I use Power Attack" "I use Dodge" , etc? Or do "higher powers" decide? Same thing with Foundations. Say the Amazing Creators' Foundation want to wage war with the Prestige Class Foundation (HYPOTHETICAL, I won't want to wage war yet!). First, does the threadkeeper make the decision for the ACF? Or is it a vote, or does it depend on the foundation? And how do I do that? Will there there be a "Guildwar Action Thread?" Second, what happens should the ACF declare war? How do we fight? Do we both create stuff (both being primarily creation foundations) trying to earn points? Do I (being the threadkeeper of the ACF) enter combat with Thasis? What about other members? Third, when do we (or the other group) win? When the other side concedes? What happens? Would the ACF claim control of the PrCF? Fourth, are there out-of-game rewards? Like custom titles or avatars, aside from "fame"? I can see Thasis's CT being something like "Omniexistent". Maybe I missed something somewhere (definitely possible!)? |
| thasis10-12-04, 06:12 PM | I think a custom title for me would be like Dark Lord or Master Demon especiouly since all i post are evil things (for the most part). A custom avatar of a Pit Fiend would be cool to. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-12-04, 06:20 PM | Hi there Turalisj - I was waiting for someone to ask that question (about PC structure). I am open to suggestions. There are three core options, with variations in between: 1. Very structured - where we have a PC thread where we all post one 2. Less structured - where in the rules, we outline brush-stroke concepts for referring to. 3. Alternative format PC And shades of grey in between. Under 1 - we'd all start off at the same point - something that has access to high level stuff. Under 2, we'd have to invent options Under 3, it might be that, like in real life, we don't have 'levels' per se, but, roles and if we try a role that we haven't tried before (join a ruling council, lead 1000 soldiers in a sortie) the goal will be harder, and require more effort, or a couple or more trials or persistence. Do you have any other ideas? OK - to KoE - those are good questions. It can't be like D&D melee on-line. It takes too long. But there *might* be special occasions where it goes down to round-by-round fighting. Like - when dueling a Deity. That said, it should perhaps have a 20 post per poster limit - maybe - to stop it getting bogged down. As to what a "foundation" does. That's a group decision. You'll note from the Guidelines post that the Foundaiton Actions list is not long. I've limited them on purpose, to make it simple. So, if a Foundation decides to attack another foundation (because you're agreed) - then you go to that foundation and in the top of the post go: Foundation Action: Attack Foundation -flavour text- that spells out mode of attack, numbers involved, defences used. Judges will determine the result. The Combat Points of the two Foundations will be tallied and the victor determined. However - if another Foundation wishes to become an instant Ally by assisting either attacker or defender. THEY CAN. And in this way, add their combat points into the Frey. When no extra groups get involved - Judges decide. At that point..... |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-12-04, 09:12 PM | There is the point that the judges should't decide about what other players say but that isn't to say that there won't be Npcs... Who else but us should have to say on if an army rebels or not? -Frosty |
| king_of_evil00710-12-04, 09:30 PM | Sil - Thanks for answering my questions so rapidly. I'm sure I'll have more soon :D |
| turalisj10-12-04, 09:47 PM | oh, and my guy is half-gold half-bronze dragon. do i post his stats for that and his elven form? |
| anglar10-12-04, 09:56 PM | PCs - I think that all PCs should be PMed to a GM by X date so we can avoid any accusations of "you just made your character that because my character was this" and what-not. Included in your PC desription should be a list a tactics for possible situations, when you'd use certain feats, what spells you would cast, magic item uses, etc. By the date decided on, or within a couple of days, the GMs could then post copies of the PCs taking part and those would be the ones used for combats, competitions, and challenges. Foundations - Since many of us are members of multiple foundations, I think the best thing to do is have the PCs represent any and all Foundations that they want to. Representation must be announced within two days of the PCs being posted. I think that a "clone" of each PC should be used to explain how each foundation has their own "Anglar" or whomever. This also would mean that no two clones would ever work together. It is the nature of a clone to destroy the others. Agree? Disagree? Questions? Comments? |
| turalisj10-12-04, 09:58 PM | :mymy: THIS CAN'T BE!! SOMETHING I ACTUALLY AGREE ON WITH A DROW!???!!! :eek: |
| thasis10-12-04, 10:33 PM | I don't like the stats thing for characters. I want to participate in the Guild Wars but I don't think that my stats can be measured in the D&d system, or any other system for that matter. It's not like i'm of infinite strength it's just that Thasis isn't meant to be measured by numbers. If I am required to use specific stats I would probally have to go with one of my lower level luetenints. I wouldn't be to happy if I had to do that. I don't mean to sound like a self centered ego-centric greedy dude but, just might quit these guild wars if it comes down to it. |
| anglar10-12-04, 11:13 PM | I don't like the stats thing for characters. I want to participate in the Guild Wars but I don't think that my stats can be measured in the D&d system, or any other system for that matter. It's not like i'm of infinite strength it's just that Thasis isn't meant to be measured by numbers. If I am required to use specific stats I would probally have to go with one of my lower level luetenints. I wouldn't be to happy if I had to do that. I don't mean to sound like a self centered ego-centric greedy dude but, just might quit these guild wars if it comes down to it. Then how would you propose we have a competition? The thing about D&D is that everything eventually comes down to a dice roll. There's always that chance that you can succeed or fail. |
| Tenzhi10-13-04, 12:16 AM | With a little work, just about any being can be statted out in D&D. Sometimes it may take the creation of new PrCs, Feats, Spells, Divine Salient Abilities, etc., but it's possible. The only excuses for not being able to stat out a character are laziness and the fear that once statted the possibility exists for failure and defeat. |
| anglar10-13-04, 12:44 AM | With a little work, just about any being can be statted out in D&D. Sometimes it may take the creation of new PrCs, Feats, Spells, Divine Salient Abilities, etc., but it's possible. The only excuses for not being able to stat out a character are laziness and the fear that once statted the possibility exists for failure and defeat. truthery, Elf-Bane. |
| turalisj10-13-04, 07:07 AM | a friend of mine once made a dnd version of sc. it was pretty great until the ultralisk came around the corner..... :embarrass |
| Silvanus10-13-04, 07:21 AM | Like many, I have 2 identities. However, these 2 are totally different. There's Silvanus, Archmage of the Council, and T'lazzar Abdrav-Khan, tiefling rogue and founder of the Children of the Planes. Should I create another account? Should I just choose one? What do people think? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-13-04, 08:20 AM | There is the point that the judges should't decide about what other players say but that isn't to say that there won't be Npcs... Who else but us should have to say on if an army rebels or not? -Frosty Correct Frostmann. Judges are not about what Actions are chosen but soley about two areas: 1. The outcome of multi-foundation 'conflicts' (by awarding Combat and flavour points) 2. They also have a role in ensuring that player-to-player combat mode stays on track (by determining the Victor). @KoE: anytime. @Turalisj: that one depends on how the PCs will be formatted. If we rely on D&D - and if it's a polymorph/body shape change effect, we've got terms of reference. If it's a new template. We'd better build it at the Dragon Foundation. (i.e. I want you guyz to see Guild House as a *whole* entitiy, comprised of inter-thread collaboration). @Anglar: I like the multi-foundation idea about - doing what you want on each Foundation. I add: you may code up your Avatar Name (e.g. Silmarien) where each color signifies a different ideology. I want to be a Psion and a Versemaster. So, I'm going to have Sil in two different colors. About the Char Stats stuff. @Tenzhi: to the point, Elf Bane. @Silvanus: *chuckles*. @Thasis: Thanx for the comments. I'm not shy of frankness. If I read between the lines - you want some secrets about your PC - to surprise us with. *BUT* we must have a place where those secrets are pre-stored. In advance of game. Your value is not diminished by coding up your PCs. Neither are you hamstrung or tethered, unduly by having a PC. In my games, there are opportunities to bust the bounds of conventional D&D. You should trust me on that one. The Elf-Bane typically refers to our products as Munchkin Products at the Half-Elven Foundation. While our game rules have provision for de-munchkinising (even I've got my limits), you'll still be able to create a universe here that you can spread your wings in. Because, not having PC standards causes the following: Player 1: I cast a 50d6 fireball. Player 2: that's not fair. There's no such thing. I cast a 60d6 fireball. Player 1: I hate you. I turn myself into Corellan - Player 2: I hate you more. I turn myself into Ao - Game Over - deus ex machina (death by Munchkinising) So - you can use multiple color thasis's to signify different thasis PCs. In that way - that's much more than typical D&D. That all said: If you can suggest a viable alternative, we should look at it. We would be saddened to not have your contributions, but, while we encourage negotiation for rule changes, we can't be held over a barrel for new rules. So Negotiate! But, you're going to need a compelling argument to sway me away from PC-post-a-la Anglar's model at this stage. @All @Turalisj a friend of mine once made a dnd version of sc. it was pretty great until the ultralisk came around the corner..... My shortest lived PC was the one where I walked into a Sphere of Annihilation - after losing my hand, I decided to "go in and get the rest of my body". I can still see my DM's face to this day when I did it. OK everyone! Well Done! We're just about ready for blast off! |
| thasis10-13-04, 09:37 AM | It's just to stat someone out such as Thasis I might be spending like months to create him the way I imagined him. You see when I created him he was a god like being (not those fuzzy beatable by PC's godlike beings, I'm talking all powerfull godlike beings) not meant for play in the D&D world. We finnaly did try to create a Thasis as a PC Campaign but it Flopped. We couldn't stat his stats out and so it realy just flopped. It turned into a storyteller campaign with a dice roll here and there. I don't like to be cheap and say I'm more powerfull then all of you it's just that his power level was not meant to be comprehended in the D&D rules set. Theres were the problem is. Maybe someone could help me. And Tenzhi, It's not that I'm lazy. It's as above and the fact that I have School, I'm trying to write Book of Corruption again (see my sig), I am working on a magor collection of my very big campaign setting, and I have a social life on top off that all other than the boards. And I have more D&D projects that have to be done but I kinnda put them aside because they were to busy. Like I said above, I might need some help. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-13-04, 10:03 AM | Hi There Thasis. That's the way. We're happy to help out. Where would you like to define/build it? I'm getting the picture of someone who likes an unfettered imagination, when it comes to D&D. I sympathise. If rules curtail the imagination - we work on mending the rules. But, what fun is battling a god, if you don't have to work to get to a point where you've got a chance? It's got to be earned to be uplifting/satisfying. We're not going to start at 1st level though. Unless someone wants to - in which case they're of course, welcome to. But, now we're in the area of individual PC (c.f. Foundation-level Actions). Remember - it's Foundatoin Combat Points that count in big battles, and Player-To-Player for some events. For PC's, I will look to the guests for consulation. What level do you want to set this thing at everyone? That said - there are always surprises and secrets. Never count all your chickens before they're hatched, and don't put all your eggs in one basket. Stav |
| Silvanus10-13-04, 05:05 PM | @Silvanus: *chuckles*. Did I say something funny? I thought I just asked a rules question. Anything more helpful to say? ;) :P |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-13-04, 06:26 PM | Did I say something funny? I thought I just asked a rules question. Anything more helpful to say? ;) :P Hi Silv (c.f. Silm) Good to see you. My apologies, I confused your post with Turalisj's in my haste. Just re-read thru thread: OK - to the question: I think we can have up to three accounts at one IP address? Is it more? In any case, whatever works for you. I think different Avatars are a good idea, but one has to log on and off. As long as that doesn't phase you, and if you have a fast PC with broadband, shouldn't be a problem. Tenzhi - I'd appreciate it if you spoke to PC levels and level management. In fact, anyone's view is invited. More comments on the PC aspects are needed. ta muchly stav |
| Von Crown10-13-04, 06:31 PM | Well, for level, 65th would be ideal, because that's what level my top leutenant is (unless you want to do 110th-130th level characters, in which case I'd come)Of course I have other underling I can dispatch if need be :devil: |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-13-04, 06:45 PM | Well, for level, 65th would be ideal, because that's what level my top leutenant is (unless you want to do 110th-130th level characters, in which case I'd come)Of course I have other underling I can dispatch if need be :devil: Now that's ambition! Very nice - but - In FaP (Faith and Pantheons) your typical Greater Deity has about 40 to 60 PC levels (plus Portfolio abilities, Divine Immunities, quite a number of free actions, kick-ass ability scores). So - in De-Munchkinising rules, we either make the Deities bigger, or we have to begin unter (under) Deity power. Who has an Elminster Template to post, for comparison. Else, invent some new guidelines here with us. Ang+Tenz - you're sensible DMs - what are your thoughts. Stav |
| turalisj10-13-04, 06:58 PM | why dont we have people choose the foundation they feel most loyal to? but they can choose one racial foundation, and one other foundation. oh, and can we be divine proxies? if so i'd like to be a proxie of deep sahiel. water rules all!! |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-13-04, 07:21 PM | why dont we have people choose the foundation they feel most loyal to? but they can choose one racial foundation, and one other foundation. oh, and can we be divine proxies? if so i'd like to be a proxie of deep sahiel. water rules all!! Hi Turalisj. 'cause, the way Ang words it, some of us like to belong to several Foundations. So - while there's no concern at all, if you choose a primary loyalty - I think Ang's suggestion is sound. It solves a lot of problems. What do you mean by divine proxy. Can you spell it out a bit more - and define what it entails, the powers you seek and all that. regards stav |
| king_of_evil00710-13-04, 09:01 PM | I think level ten is a good level. Room for growth, but we weren't born yesterday either. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-13-04, 09:46 PM | I"d have to agree that ten might be a good idea however what I think is better and what Sil is looking more like around lvl 15 if not lvl 20. She wants things high up their soon to expand epic...if I so understand her correctly? -Frosty |
| anglar10-13-04, 10:16 PM | FWIW - I think it might be best if we each created a character within a tight range, say 14th-16th, to allow for Level adjustment races and so forth. The character could be a version of ourselves or someone completely different to your "champion" for the event. If we do this, then we can start a thread and post our characters and update as needed. This puts everybody on the same level as far as individual power and doesn't mean that the DMs must bring in things that some of us have no business being around just to challenge other players. There could still be multiple versions representing each Foundation that we want to. I'd even be keen towards different versions tailored for each foundation so long as it is clear that it is each foundation for itself. That way there's no teaming up of like-characters. |
| Tenzhi10-14-04, 12:41 AM | I think we should have various tiers of competition. Low (1-6), Mid (7-13), High (14-20), and Epic (>20 but, IMO, only up to 40th - I'm of the opinion that 40th level should be the mortal limit and anything beyond that requires ascension) level. Perhaps divide it into numerical categories as well - Duel (1 on 1), Party (<=10 each), Skirmish (up to 50 each, perhaps), and War (no limit). Each competition need not be combat-oriented, either. The GMs could devise various goals to attain as conditions for success. If we wanted to have advancement as well, then participating in a competition of your level range might be worth one point. Winning would be worth a bonus point. Other bonus points might be available by attaining secret goals as devised by the GMs. Dying or falling out of the competition before completion would halve your point gain. It would take 26 points to gain a level (13 successful competitions of an appropriate challenge, mimicking the typical level progression without the messiness of XP). Of course, to do this someone would have to keep a record of characters. |
| necrodude1610-14-04, 01:43 AM | Some where 10 - 25?? YOu will have to give like a week for us to make characters |
| anglar10-14-04, 02:01 AM | Some where 10 - 25?? YOu will have to give like a week for us to make characters At least. The first thing I think we should do is make certain we all agree on the format, which could take us quite a while. |
| Tenzhi10-14-04, 02:30 AM | It's just to stat someone out such as Thasis I might be spending like months to create him the way I imagined him. You see when I created him he was a god like being (not those fuzzy beatable by PC's godlike beings, I'm talking all powerfull godlike beings) not meant for play in the D&D world. The same could be said for Tenzhi. I don't like to be cheap and say I'm more powerfull then all of you But when you say things like "it's just that his power level was not meant to be comprehended in the D&D rules set" that's pretty much the point you're making. And again, I could say the same for Tenzhi, the Elf-Bane. It's exactly because of that that I didn't have Him directly participate in the post-wedding RPing that Sil & Co. were running a few months back. Though I have taken some steps towards statting him out (for instance, designing his draconic species and creating rules for a pertinent ritual), I doubt that I'll ever completely do it simply because he's my own deus ex machina-type character. And Tenzhi, It's not that I'm lazy. That depends on how you define "lazy." I define it as having more goals to accomplish than one has the requisite effort, time, and willingness to expend. ;) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-14-04, 08:07 AM | Very thoughtful commentary. We have a dilemma: you all make such good points. On the one hand: Tenzhi+Thasis+Gellion - resisting stating out a PC because the imagination won't be coded up into stats is a worthy enterprise. The imagination is the realm of all that not bound to the constraints of reality. There's a mourning, in giving up infinity. On the other: Tenzhi (as always both sides), Ang, Necro, Frosty and KoE. Seemingly competing position is the game necessity for equity, equality, fair play and importantly - just being practical. A structureless game is a mess. You'll also get board if you have infinite power too. No challenge. No risk. Humans need risk to have fun. You've got to have stakes and game-threat to feel challenged. Also, for those of you who know Karsus - it's only a good story because a mortal clambered thru the ranks of mortals to challenge the gods. So - what do we do. Tiers of competition solves many of the problems - not all. I'm going to sleep on this one. I believe in inspiration thru dream-scapes. The definites so far: Ang's post-thread for PCs Tenzhi's challenge/rewards system is very sound If there's a way to integrate deus ex machina in a way that doesn't threaten the game (for Gellion's Godless Cleric, Thasis's imagination and The Elf Bane's enigma - we're going to weave it in). The "room to grow" concept is being kept (Ang+KoE) And Frosty - a big hello - good to see you too. You're correct - I do prefer 20 plus personally - but a good GM/DM doesn't impose these things onto players. That is - I'm happy when my players get what they want. Be back soon. Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo |
| thasis10-14-04, 10:05 AM | Well If I couldn't stat out myself that dosn't mean I can't stat out a Aspect of myself. If I'm correct a aspect is a mortal version of the Deity. A how should I say... Divine mortal man. LOL. Anyway. For a while I could use my aspect to control my armies well I sit back on the Ninth Layer of Hell relaxing and drinking my fine glass of blood (that was always my trademark when we played the campaign with Thasis as a PC, I was always drinking blood out of a fine gold goblet. Those were the days *Shakes head*). |
| turalisj10-14-04, 05:41 PM | yet another question: since my character is a genoicidal dragon, does that mean i have attack bonuses vs illithid and drow :D |
| king_of_evil00710-14-04, 05:53 PM | What about something along the lines of avatars? So my level 10 (example) KoE is just that, an avatar. He's not the british dark lord (damned numbers :D ), but just an avatar, a represantation of him. That way, Dark Lords, genocidal dragons, and Thasis don't have to worry about the character not coming up to how cool his guy is, because this is only an avatar or representation. I'm still trying to figure out what I am. One thing I know is that my name is KoE, not the full name. Nobody knows what is stands for :D What exactly is a Benevolent Dictator? Can I take FFd20 classes? :D That is a joke, most of them could wipe out a D&D character a few levels higher with ease What about custom PrCs? I am SO a General of the Chained Axe. Those guys are l337 h4X0rZ. Or, I can just say they're cool :D Edit: I dunno about Epic. IMO, the epic rules are all kinda unbalanced, with stuff like spells that boost your con by hundereds of points permanently and whatnot, I can't remember details. |
| thasis10-14-04, 06:28 PM | If we could take custom classes can I take my new Dungeon Lord Prc. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-14-04, 06:39 PM | Thasis - that's a good idea. Good Morning guyz (or evening for the US posters - or late nite for Europeans - and wee hours for Asia - apologies if I missed anyone) OK - much refreshed - and with spring-time airs here blowing pollin everywhere. In story mode first In a campaign here in Oz, Sil is a 16th level Wizard (up from 1st level). She's battled Drow, unmasked the corrupt Telias, who infiltrated the Elven High Council at the Northern Flame, she reclaimed the Barad Ilca and cleansed it of devilry, she's ventured into the Underdark, and battled the legions of Drow, goblin and orc. But - She also has a mysterious heritage. Over time, she has learned that her grandmother, was an Elf, Bralas, who was of the Northern Flame. Bralas was rejected by the Artifact, the Ellaedun. This Aritifact is as old as Elvendom and knows the time of the Elf-Wars when Corellan expelled the Dark Elves for their treachery. This Artifact has accepted Sil as its Custodian. More though, for she found the ruins of The Vale, which contained ancient Elven architecture - and an active Mythal. She has learned that she is custodian to Mythal Skybridge and the three Southern Elven Princedoms (now in ruins). At times, the Mythal calls - and she has moments of deus ex machina (if you can say it that way). When The Ellaedun and Mythal are temporarily part of her being. DM-Mode During specific moments - players will have opportunities to be *more than they think they are*. Like in real life, humans have enourmous potential for healing or ruination. We are all more than we know of ourselves at any one time. There are moments where we transcend ourselves and have no idea how we did it, and are left with the sense of awe and wonder at being alive. Moments of creation, inspiration invigoration and poignancy. So be it in our Game. You will be given clues, game-plots and you will learn *over time* things about your legacy, heritage and powers that you never knew were possible. But - between times - you are D&D Characters of.......starting somewhere between 10th to 17th level. The Avatar Concept Thasis + KoE - we're on the same wavelength. Thasis - Aspects of Self is a great idea for your In-Game Avatar. ....for in the depths of time, the Aspects did great war - and after they made the world - there was great strife. For Evil and Chaos were loath to tolerate sameness and structure. Chaos sensed that without change, the Eternity would be an endless burdon of insufferable torment. Day after day of structured same-ness. And Evil, then whispered to Chaos and stirred him to wrath - and so the two strove to Unmake all that was beautiful. So it was that Good and Law were first grieved and then angered at the Unmakers - and a Great War followed, where much that was made was lost and great Banes were created and great Powers for Good - many still lost to Time or buried deep within the Earth. And thence - in a great conflagration - The Evil Ones were Imprisoned in the Nine Layers of Hell - forever cut off from the World. And over the aeons - they have long pondered revenge. And they have learned to create Avatars - echoes or shadows of themselves - that they send into the world to Unmake and destroy as is Evil's wont. But Ward! For 'tis said that when an Avatar is destroyed - there are consequences @Turalisj Genocidal dragon! In that case I'm a Bene Gesserit. Regards stav |
| anglar10-14-04, 07:11 PM | Let's please NOT start with Epic Level Characters. It's going to take enough time for us to figure out how to do things with characters of mid to high levels. Besides, I'll just have to revert Anglar back to his 2E/3.xE hybrid self and there won't be any spells you can use against him. It's no fun if you can't lose. |
| turalisj10-15-04, 07:09 AM | @Turalisj Genocidal dragon! In that case I'm a Bene Gesserit. Regards stav if your the ben gesserit, then im a maud'dib! |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-15-04, 07:37 AM | 1. Tiers of Competition Low Mid High in a 'wait and see model' as the contingencies pop up Greater risk = more reward for success. 2. Types of Combat Deul (all types: Player to player; Player to Sovereign; Player to Deity) Affray (inter-foundation) 3. Deus ex machina The world is filled with mystery, intrigue and all things unknowable. You will have moments where you may excel your bounds. The conditions for when this occur and how are not to be known. The GMs could devise various goals to attain as conditions for success. 4. Avatars in the Prime Material Plane The Lore of this world: some spirits, demons, and ancient entities that defy all Knowledge and Lore. They are wildcards - yet - paradoxically bound to the Prime Material Plane. We're nearly ready to go. I missed something. "Benevolent Dictator" - a very confused entity! stav |
| thasis10-15-04, 09:55 AM | Thats not what I meant by avatars. What I meant by avatars is that I'm to powerfull to compete in this battle because one my spells could probally destroy the material plane so what I do is I send a weaker form of myself to come down and do my bidding. I don't want to be trapped on the material plane. |
| Silvanus10-15-04, 04:11 PM | I have a couple of possible solutions for people like Thasis and Tenzhi. 1. Don't play as them! Devise a totally different char for the wars/games. They wouldn't have to have anything to do with the other character. 2. Create versions of these characters from before they ascended to god/uberbeast-hood. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-15-04, 08:30 PM | Silvanus - they're good ideas. Thats not what I meant by avatars. What I meant by avatars is that I'm to powerfull to compete in this battle because one my spells could probally destroy the material plane so what I do is I send a weaker form of myself to come down and do my bidding. I don't want to be trapped on the material plane. *grins* To the first bold: She scowls, momentarily - casting her memory over old lore. Then, her face lifts - "a-ha" - and she opens a Vision to the Library of the Pereldar - where Alcare and Rilya are taking lessons over old Lore Tomes. Rilya looks up, sensing her mother's scrying, and receiving a Sending - she smiles at the familiar visage. She opens a Loretome - and Sil amplifies the Vision - for all to Read: ....for The Darkness knows no forgiveness. It is cruel and relentless. For He ravaged the Lands - creating havoc wherever He stepped. Cruelties immeasurable were contrived and Magic itself, for a time, obeyed different rules - when He manifested The Corruption of The Weave. At that time, The Good-Aligned Casters were crippled - their Powers perilous to wield. And many succumbed to Darkness, not heeding the warnings to stay their Magic. For during The Corruption, active magic would entomb the minds of the Good, and to cast a spell, opened the door to Him. A great grief it was and those who fell first were the most vain - who thought they could master The Corruption. Alas - this was a part of His Wydring - for 'tis said that He called to the Mages through the changes he wrought to The Weave and through the Magic. But the Elven High Mages devised a Great Mythal that made them immune. 'Tis said, that the Goddess of Magic herself assisted to protect them in The Casting of Mythal Arnandaher. And thence within the Mythal's confines, the Elves Reshaped The Weave in image of its Divine Creater - and restored the freedom to cast spells without risk. Thence, the Elves then set their minds to the Healing of the Weave and to the freedom of the Lands. They Cast The Summoning - a great Epic event - that spoke through the Weave to all the Minds of the Faithful. And they came - from all parts of the Lands, tens of thousands of people and sentient beings of all kinds. And they were granted access to Mythal Arnandaher - and from within its confines, they all wept at the beauty of the Sanctuary. For all outside was fell and ruined. Burned or damned. And so, through their Grief, the greatest Spell ever known was cast. When tens of thousands of Voices enjoined in the Mythal as Ranks of the Third - who contribute their very life force to the Casting. And The First the Elven High Mages and The Second - mighty Spell casters Wove their Song. And during this time, at the Casting of The Imprisonment, He sensed His peril and he assailed Arnandaher with all His might. Demons, devils, and The Corrupted Mages gathered and assaulted the Mythal. For forty days and nights, the Magical forces battled at Mythal Arnandaher. So great was the power, that the Weave itself was threatened and the Goddess of Magic taxed to her extreme. And even Arvandor and Dweomerheart were threatened and they poured forth all their Lore and Might to save the Lands. And so, The Great Spell of Imprisonment was cast - whose Lore is lost, but that still functions. And even a god can be caught by it, for Lore was from Arvandor and Dweomerheart and infused with the Stuff of Magic in its rawest form. Sil looks up at you and says "And He is still trapped today - though that was ten thousand centuries gone by. But not on the Prime Material Plane - but in the Nine Layers of Hell. But some say the Shadow is Rising again, and 'tis said that his Avatar walks the world, slowly growing in might..... Rilya closes the book... OK thasis - you have your brief. This is how we can allow you to have your wish to have immeasurable power. But - if you want to be free from the nine layers - you gotta work out how to get out first. Your Avatar exists in the Prime - and if it cops it...... *grins*..... Stav |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-15-04, 08:50 PM | I have a couple of possible solutions for people like Thasis and Tenzhi. 1. Don't play as them! Devise a totally different char for the wars/games. They wouldn't have to have anything to do with the other character. 2. Create versions of these characters from before they ascended to god/uberbeast-hood. Silvanus you made this exact point before I was able to. I don't understand why you have the play the character who you picked your Wizo named after. Not only is Lord Frostbite Ravenheart, Elder and General of the Ravenheart Family and the last Blessed of Luna, was from the White Wolf system. In the name of the Ravenhearts hes not even one character. His name applies to four concepts that are similar. One of the concepts are tenzhi-power leveled. The other three are also very strong and have under them, depending on the time, the strongest army of supernatural ever assembled. However I have never to this day roleplayed any one of these four concepts on these boards nor shall I ever. Just my .02 -Frosty |
| Tenzhi10-16-04, 12:31 AM | I have no aversion to playing a lesser aspect of Tenzhi, or one of his servants (or really even a completely unrelated character as the mood strikes me), as shown during previous RP sessions where I played one of Tenzhi's avatars (a former deity of Dragonlance, and an elf no less) and one of his blood kobolds. But for my part I'm just not interested in participating in the competition itself, though I am willing to act as a judge in the interest of community spirit. |
| Von Crown10-17-04, 03:30 PM | A bleak, barren landscape... A black citadel rising into the red sky... and inside... A dark figure walks through a laboratory. On all sides, strange and alien body parts float in jars of alchemical preservative. The figure turns, and walks through a doorway into another room. In this room, the walls are lined with shelves, and on the shelves are jars, all the same size, in neat rows. In each jar a nearly identical oblong shape bobs in preservatives, and on each jar is a lablel. The figure searches the shelves, finally finding what it needs.He goes back into the first room, where a vat is bubbling with a ixture of alchemical reagents and herbs. He puts a crystal jar under a tap in the vat, and pours some of the mixture in. He then takes the thing floating in the jar from the other room, and puts it in the mixture in the other jar. Then he takes a syringe from out of his jacket and sticks it into his arm, drawing a small amount of bood, which he then mixes into the jar, which begins to bubble. Turning away, he walks over to a table, where a body lays streched out. Taking what appear to be muscles from a nearby rack, he lays them out across the body and pulls out a needle and some thread. He stiches the muscles into place, and cuts the thread. "This should be interesting" he said, to no-one in particular. Behold, my insane characters for the guild wars: Mahogany and Hercules! Mahogany is a brain in a jar sorceror, and hercules is his cohort (undead leadership feat), and hercules is going to be an awakened either zombie or flesh golem with no head who caries mahogany around attached to his neck. How's that for odd? P.S. You probably won't undersant how I came up with the names unless you've played Disgaea: hour of Darkness. It's in episode seven. |
| thasis10-17-04, 05:41 PM | Hmm... for this avatar thing I have an idea. How bout when Thasis created this avatar good spellcasters attacked the avatar. One of Thasis's avatars cast a spell. This spell back fired. He created many duplications of himeself. The good ones joined the good guys in the fight and the bad ones joined the evil avatar in the fight. Neither side could win with good Thasis's on the other side. Both sides retreated. After the retreat the Thasis's wanted nothing to do with each other. All the Thasis's whent of on there way. There was also some neutrul Thasis's made. They retreated the fight right away. They whent of to create the Guild of Neutrality and a bunch joined creation guilds. Is that a good idea? Yes, No, Maybe so? |
| BronzeBeard10-17-04, 06:43 PM | Well Silmarien Aldalome, after two weeks of holiday abroad I come back to find what? That you had just thrown A PIECE OF PAPER at my friends!!!! Horiffic! JK, the game idea sounds lovely and remindes me much of a game my friends and I invented back then at the time we were at school (wow! how much time has gone by!). Anyway, inspite the fact that the idea is marvoluos, the explanation is not that friendly. I had so much trouble reading every bit of the above post I almost started crying (almost). I'd like to suggest a lot of the rules we, guys, used at the in-school gaming tournomant (it was about every one having his country and making politics and war and etc. Ask Adamwat if you want.) Just a second, I need to fetch those papers. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-17-04, 07:04 PM | Hi there everyone. Firstly - Frosty + Silvanus: the pre concept is OK (i.e. 'before i was a god') - if characters want that, they may. I can integrate that material into game play and make it interesting with some twists at the same time. Tenzhi - being judge doesn't preclude you from popping in, as you please on the ground. I trust your impartiality implicitly. So that you that you may have fun sometimes too, if you wish. Von Crown Fantastic! We'll look forwards to seeing it coded up. Let us know if you want help in the build. @all - which reminds me, we can cut a "Character Dev" thread pre-posting to the PC thread, if people need to build, erm, anything and need game-balance tips. @thasis - you can of course have multiple Avatars. We shall look forwards. There is, however an Entombed Dark Deity - as the Lore has spelled out. Whether or not that's you - well - not exactly knowing makes the game more fun ;) @Bronze Beard Hi there BB - good to see you and welcome back. Do you know, in my undergraduate uni days, I used to sit in a lecture hall with 300 students. Typically, there were 50 or so paper planes thrown per lecture. That amounts to many hundreds of planes over the year. I was not a plane-thrower. But one day, I decided to join in the frey. I made a plane, and threw it. It floated in a dead straight line, sailing beautifully to the front of the lecture hall. It was in horror as I watched my lecturer turn around, gesticulating madly with his hands, and *zow* right in his chest went my plane. Of course, he then stopped the lecture, dragged me down the front and publicly dressed me down in front of the 300. We'll look forwards to seeing your notes. Bring them on. Now - I'm vanishing for about one hour, but today I'll be on-line for a block of about five hours, soon. If you need anything, holler. Take care stav |
| BronzeBeard10-17-04, 09:54 PM | Of course, he then stopped the lecture, dragged me down the front and publicly dressed me down in front of the 300. He did what? Anyway, to the rules: (notice that Big Red are the suggested rules and Italicare example) First of all we need to decide who are the groups. For example, in my friends game every player had a nation to rule and he was its leader. I was the president of Yakunli, my friends had ARKA"S, Edan, Barbaria and Syber-Sun. By the name of this game I assume that the game is based on foundation = country/nation, SO: Every foundation has its country. Countrys are diffirenete from each other by basic, measurable, items. SO: Every country consist of the following: - Territory (Land, with resources) - People (The nation's foundation's members) - Governing (Some kind of rules given to the nations people by the leader) After defining the groups of the game, we need some kind of communication. Every country will need to engage politicly and economiclly to other nations Yakunli have an alliance with ARKA"S, a subsided trade with SyberSun and a constant war with its long time enemy - Edan. The choices should be down to basis form in a easy picking scale. SO: Every country (the leader) will be able to confront othe nation by declaring their relationship from within the following options: 1. War (The opposing nation will not trade or commun by any way) 2. Peace 3. Alliance 4. Colony (The colony will do anything for the supreme nation) Exceptions: I. Any new nation begins with (2) diplomatic attitude (Peace) towards all other nation (thought it might change during game). II. Beside War (1) every diplomatic action must be accapted by both sides. Besides going along with other nations, the country need to work by itself. In this kind-a-game I can imagine 3 things a country can do - Build, Fight and Warship. Any way you look at it, the only way to do so is by the people (=members). And so, the quantity of residents in the nation affect your ability to do something. Flavorly speaking, the number of residents in one nation is 1000 times the number of its members. SO: A country have Labor Points (LP) equal to 2 + number of residents in its borders. LP may be used for either Building, Fighting or Worshipping any set period of time. A country CANNOT save her LP to use them later, they must be spent away or be waisted. And after having these points, each country may use them as well as it like in the above fields. Building is for making houses, towns, mines, factorys, anna aref, towers and items mentioned in the country's foundation thread. SO: By spending points into this criteria the country may build anything buildable, craftable or magicable from it's foundation thread. After building, you can fight. The LP invested in army are for grand scale battles. SO: LP invested into Fighting transform themselves into Power Points (PP) for battles between nations. Like the LP, PP cannot be kept for later use. They must be spent time after time in keeping the army on alert. Worshipping is a way to give the judges a bit of power to act. By making power points for gods you build a status where the judges cannot abuse the players and the otherway around. It is possible to minimize the players influence on the judges by creating a godly moves which not require power points to use. SO: LP granted to Worshipping a god will be converted into PP for that specific god. It is OK to worship more than one god. Next are the people themselves. Any guy can be either a resident of specific nation (a member of some foundation) or non (freelancer/mercenery). SO: Every player may be either a resident in a nation or not, depending on membership in foundations. Each player may have one residency the most. The above rule of LP does NOT affect the foundation members in any way and is not restricting them from using any of the player-moves. Players (not judges/gods or rulers of nations) may do whatever they please althought they are still abid their countrys laws (like dont go to our enemy nation). They also can do things not written here. The wrotten moves are only for technically mesaures. Flavor based moves (traveling, gaining cohorts) are not written here, also does the secret moves (spying). SO: Any player can take any one of this actions in a set time period: - Add 1 point to his nation's LP - Challange any player individual. If the challanged player has no nation he must accept the duel. - Challange any divine individual. Any resident can take any one of this actions in a set time period: - Kidnap 1 non-divine individual. - Steal 1 Item. - Infiltrate another nation. Judges will most certainly be gods (by guessing that multi-gods beliefe is accaptable in the game) that is a good idea since judges can't be a group itself but need power in the game in order to, in one hand, balance it or, in the other, flavor it. I brings the idea from the greek myth' of having a god for each item of significance in the game. SO: A judge will play a god in the game. Any god control over different thing - God I will control lumber, God II will control coins, etc. A god must NOT be a member of any foundation. I'm all for chance of ascending into the divine pantheon but I do not how can an ex-resident of a country not to abuse his knew abilities. |
| thasis10-17-04, 10:13 PM | I like your system. |
| BronzeBeard10-17-04, 10:26 PM | Hmm... for this avatar thing I have an idea. How bout when Thasis created this avatar good spellcasters attacked the avatar. One of Thasis's avatars cast a spell. This spell back fired. He created many duplications of himeself. The good ones joined the good guys in the fight and the bad ones joined the evil avatar in the fight. Neither side could win with good Thasis's on the other side. Both sides retreated. After the retreat the Thasis's wanted nothing to do with each other. All the Thasis's whent of on there way. There was also some neutrul Thasis's made. They retreated the fight right away. They whent of to create the Guild of Neutrality and a bunch joined creation guilds. Is that a good idea? Yes, No, Maybe so? How about you just tried to craft a relic in your lab' and it blowned away at your face. All the magical energy was so hard, so unbearable hot. and in the end it just spillted you to... well... you. but more. OK. hmm. What do you think about my rules? Shall I continue? and I don't want to use a full version of DND character. we need to build a modul to use for players otherwise the game will be SO OVERLOADED WITH TONS OF INFO!!! that we all will be like "WTF???" :banghead: :rant: :uh-huh: :banghead: :rant: :uh-huh: :banghead: :rant: :uh-huh: :banghead: :rant: :uh-huh: Somthing simple with life points combat points and talent points. and that's it. |
| thasis10-17-04, 10:32 PM | I have a system. I created my own RPG when you control armies and the such. Since it was on mass scale in combat we needed a simple system. We created a system that uses HP, MP, Atk, Def, and WP (weapon strength). It was a asome system for a asome game (still have to get it published). We could use that system though for boards battle. If your intressted I could post the basic rules of the system. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-17-04, 11:00 PM | BB - I like it. It's good stuff. OK - item by item: - your Labour Points system is important. We'll build it into V3 of the Game Rules. - The "Groups" idea, I think takes care of itself, in that The Foundation is "The Group". - Every Foundation is it's own 'country' (territory, people and so on: fantastic ideas in your post) *but* We have a Sovereign. A Foundation can *defy the Sovereign* if they wish (i.e. *cesede* if they wish to try) - 1. War (The opposing nation will not trade or commun by any way) 2. Peace 3. Alliance 4. Colony Will be in the Foundation Action list. - It's LABOUR POINTS that is the best idea in your post. It's a very important concept. Well done! - LP investment, grant, and product - Not Power Points - COMBAT POINTS (Power Points is a Psionic thing - and will confuse us. A member of the Psionics Foundation pointed this out). - Your Player Actions and Resident Options are great ideas. - We still have four Categories of Actions (Foundation/Country; Player; Sovereign; Divine) - we have potentially lots of gods - judging - Summary: Wonderful materials - we will cut V3 to accommodate the concepts. I've made some suggestions - please continue to comment on it. turns to Posters - we *need your input about Judging Standards* good to see everyone! |
| BronzeBeard10-18-04, 07:34 AM | I thank you both, tharsis & Sil. Second, I hope no one got insulted from my last post. It just happened that I got all in this game and I spent nearrly 4 hours cracking what you wrote before (orcy is right) and than another couple o' hours by writing my own stuff. By the time I finished it was nearly 6 oclock in my place and I realized that I spent the WHOLE (not nearly but all of it) night reading and commeting the post and by the time I finished I was like: sdrjhgtraeioth23uitrheriognjbag.askhgsdj ghgajkh#$^%#$!&%!#!! . Besides that I still dont understand. Is my work good enought to be accepted to the rules? Should I continue? AND Is there any other threads involving this game? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-18-04, 07:54 AM | I thank you both, tharsis & Sil. Second, I hope no one got insulted from my last post. :bow: I know that feeling *smiles* - it's very nice of you to care about us. It's a pleasure to reciprocate (i.e. be respectful back). Your post was well-constructed and has provided us with many great ideas. It will be a pleasure to build the ideas into V3. Make sure you keep sharing your ideas. From my seat here, it's hard to read between posters' 'lines' and so, it's important that you (and all of you) be free to provide respectful feedback about how you'd like to build the new game. It just happened that I got all in this game and I spent nearrly 4 hours cracking what you wrote before (orcy is right) and than another couple o' hours by writing my own stuff. By the time I finished it was nearly 6 oclock in my place and I realized that I spent the WHOLE (not nearly but all of it) night reading and commeting the post and by the time I finished I was like: sdrjhgtraeioth23uitrheriognjbag.askhgsdj ghgajkh#$^%#$!&%!#!! Besides that I still dont understand. Is my work good enought to be accepted to the rules? Should I continue? AND Is there any other threads involving this game? OK - your work is up to a very high standard, and will be included in Version 3 of the rules (out in a post or two). You should very much continue - and we will all work together to polish up the work we're all doing. I'll cut the final version of the rules, when we get to that point where we're going round and round (or seem to be). As far as "any other threads" involving this game. YES - ANY AND ALL THREADS AT THE GUILD HOUSE ARE PART OF THE GAME. Hence, my comments about "each foundation being its own country". Each individual thread, you can think of like it's own mini-governance. BUT - we have a Sovereign (a High King or Queen) - who - much like the (wonderful) United States of America, is trying to make a Federation. But, like all Federations, Individual countries can cesede (split off) or rebel-rouse, or defy the King, or try anything they wish (on our list of actions for Foundations). Does this help? regards stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-18-04, 08:26 AM | Guidelines for Inter-Foundation Games, Version 3.0 Guidelines are grouped into parts, those being: Spirit of Foundation Games, Foundation Actions & Combat Points, and Foundation Record Keeping (for Game Stats). Each section will be posted separately until we are finished building the rules. Spirit Of Guild House Inter-Foundation Games The Aim is to vie for mastery or to make peace, to accumulate power, knowledge, territory, or even divinity as you and your Foundation sees fit. The Inter-Foundation Games always have a High King or Queen - a Sovereign Power, who determines the Mode we operate in (see below). Anyone may sieze the opportunity to wrest mastery from the current King or Queen and to shape the World as you deem well in your wisdom. We also have a Pantheon, which you may end up on. If you dare to challenge one or several members of the Pantheon and win, you may join the ranks of the Divine. Or, alternatively, you may attract a member of the Pantheon to you, through outstanding acts of courage, glory or self-sacrifice. If you are unlucky or wrecklessely use your Major Artifacts or extremely high powers, you may find a Deity comes after you. If you lose in a combat with a Deity, you are then at The Deities' Mercy. But, if you win, you too, could join the Ranks of the Divine, and host a Plane at The Pantheons Foundation. But, no fortune, fame or purpose comes without taking risks and there will be (game) rewards for success and possible (game) penalties for failure. Your people are counting on you, because the world is peopled by many creatures both friendly and hostile, and everywhere is hope and despair, mystery and discovery. It is your world to build, create or even command (especially if you are the High King or Queen), but you need to have courage to influence it. You are as powerful as you make happen and how you use your power is about the collective wisdom of the Foundations you work with. You are strongly encouraged to collaborate and interact, but won't be punished in any way if you prefer a solo style. Some people like one thing and others another and it's all welcome here. Two Levels of Operation 1. The most important thing to remember is that Interfoundation Games work on two levels. The first level is the most important and is about fun, friendly exchanges, no matter what is going on at the second level. We can't do this without trusting each other and without being good to one another. Our WizOs will only support us in our adventure, provided we show due respect for what the WizOs ask of us through the Code of Conduct. If we do that, I have every confidence that they will show us support and that they will be happy that we are having fun. 2. The second level operates in any combination of seven different modes. At any one point in time, depending on who the High King or Queen is, we'll have a different world, defined by the Sovereign's Actions (outlined next section). A Mode is any of the various combinations of: Mode 1. we're at peace Mode 2. we're at war Mode 3. we're having an inter-Foundation Truce for Games (i.e. Olympic-games sort of thing) Mode 4. we're in a State of Monarchy (Law) Mode 5. we're in a State of Anarchy (Chaos) Mode 6. we're in a State of Benevolence (Good) Mode 7. we're in a State of Tryanny (Evil) We could be, for example, in Mode 2. and Mode 7. at once. The High King determines the Mode through your very actions in your posts. Each one of these seven Modes, gives us an overall flavour, and Judging Panels will make different rulings that affect Foundations, depending on which state we're in. For example, in a State of Benevolent-Anarchy (Chaotic Good), there are far fewer limits on what you can "do" to another Foundation compared to when we're in a state of Benevolent-Monarchy. In a State of Benevolent-Monarchy, (Lawful Good) there are Laws (not real ones), that if broken, may expose you to Sovereign Powers, such as Banishment and Punishment. On the other hand, if you do something benevolent to the Sovereign, and get noticed for it, you or your Foundation or both may get Knighted, Ordained or Rewarded. Like all worlds, countries, princedoms and people form relationships with one another and need to have land, power, resources and magic to exist. There is a High King or Queenship at all times of World, that has access to Kingly/Queenly powers. This Sovereign Rotates, depending on who runs the most powerful Foundation. This all happens across multiple threads and we will also host an on-going Meta-Rules Thread to discuss course changes and make changes as you guyz think is best. You need to sign up to the following URL's URL1 URL2 URL3 URL4 |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-18-04, 08:29 AM | Foundation Actions and Combat Points A Foundation is any of an (in-game) group, country, collective, organisation or power base There is a High King or High Queen of all Foundations at any one time. This is our glorious Sovereign. Our High King or Queen has access to special Powers called Sovereign Actions. These are covered below, after we look at your individual foundation actions first. There are also Deities that are the most powerful beings in the game. Deities have access to Divine Actions. These are also covered below, after we look at your individual foundation actions first BUT, Every Foundation iis like a "country" and may consist of the following: - Territory (Land, with resources) - People (The nation's foundation's members) - Governance (Some kind of rules given to the nations people by the leader) For example, the Council of Archmages is a group of very high level Wizards, with special powers and who have access to a great region of land. After creating your Foundation, Country, Group or Collective for the game, you need to have relationships with other "countries". Every country will need to engage in political, social, and economic activities with other nations. These are Foundation Actions For example, The Dwarf Lords have forged an alliance with the Pereldar (Half-Elves) and the two cultures currently have open trade and healthy diplomatic relations. Every country, may or may not have a Leader, War Lord, Lorewarden or any name you choose. Your relationship with other countries occurs by your choice of the following options: 1. Declare War (The opposing nation will not trade or commun by any way) 2. Make Peace 3. Forge Alliance 4. Colony (The colony will do anything for the supreme nation) 5. Colonize 6. Provoke a Foundation, Group, Country or Culture 7. Imprison and Intruder 8. Parlay 9. Defend New Nations must declare their Alliances. Some Foundation Actions require both sides to agree (e.g. Diplomatic Action) and others are unilateral (e.g. Declaring War; Infiltrating, Kidnap, etc) Besides forging relationships with other Nations and being good (or bad) neighbours to each other, each Nation also needs to work on its own. That is, your Nation must Build things. It must have Labour to do this. It's residents are your labour pool and the more residents you have, the more labour you have access to. A country have Labor Points (LP) equal to ***TO BE DETERMINED AND DISCUSSED 2 + number of residents in its borders. LP may be used for either Building, Fighting or Worshipping any set period of time. And after having these points, each country may also use them to build towers and fortifications or build anything in the spirit of the foundation thread. By spending Labour Points, your Nation may build anything 'buildable', 'craftable' or 'magic-able' that logically goes with the particular Foundation thread building it. examples are Wondrous Items, Psionic Powers, new Lore, Artifacts, Classes, Skills, Feats The Labour Points (LP) invested in your armies are for grand scale battles. LP invested transform raw materials into Combat Points (CP) for battles between Nations. Think of a Foundation as having Combat Points and taking Actions, like a PC in D&D would have Hit Points and take Standard Actions in Core Rules D&D V3.5. You have to gain Combat Points and take Actions to influence the world. When a new Foundation starts, it has zero Combat Points. As you make items, discuss and create spells, make undead (if you are from that Foundation) or work out ways to channel Holy Divine Power, you gain status, prestige, and glory as measured through Combat Points. For example, The Psionics Foundation has a vast Crystal Library, where Psions gather to create new Psionic powers and devise new Psionic Items. These tools give them more Combat Points. When your items, spells, spell-like effects, weapons, armour, minor and major artifacts are finished, the GMs (or Impartial Panel of Judges) will grant you a BURST OF COMBAT POINTS. So, you'll need to designate build-time, raw materials, and make the thing happen. Then we have the people themselves. Any guy can be either a resident of specific nation (a member of some foundation) or non (freelancer/mercenery). Every player may be either a resident in a nation or not, depending on membership in foundations. Each player may have one preferred residency or you may have duel or multiple residencies. You can be asked to prove your residency at any time. Individual non-Residents or Enemies of a Foundation can: 1. Infiltrate a Foundation (i.e. Be a Spy: I'll let you know how to keep this secret) 2. Steal from another Foundation 3. Rescue an Imprisoned Friend 4. Kidnap someone 5. Do a D&D Action (Cast a Spell, Spell Like Effect, Use Wondrous Item, Minor Artifact, Major Artifact, Skill or Feat (for player-to-player combats) NOTE: There's no Deus Ex Machina i.e. no munchkinising. *But*, that doesn't mean "built it just like D&D" - you *may* still create very powerful Artifacts (or steal them from another Foundation) or Classes that go beyond D&D *however* misuse of the power, will attract a Deity to you and you will be exposed to Divine Intervention (see Actions, below). Depending on the degree of your audacity, you will have a percentage chance of defeating a deity. If you win, you get Divine Ranks. If you lose, your Character/Foundation may be subject to.....SURPRISES. So, there are three kinds of Actions: Foundaiton Actions (covered above), Sovereign Actions, and Divine Actions. Sovereign Actions 1. Create Monarchy (e.g. cut a "Laws", "Rewards", "Punishments" post) 2. Create Anarchy (e.g. cut a "Rule of Anarchy" post and spell out what that means) 3. Create Benevolent Rule (e.g. cut a "Humanitarian" post) 4. Create Evil Rule (e.g. cut a "Rules of Tyranny" post) So, when we're in the Benevolent-Monarchy Mode, we might have humanitarian laws coded up in the Sovereign Actions post. In a Benevolent-Anarchy, our "Sovereign" would cut a post with benevolent law breaking coded up in the Sovereign Actions post. If someone tries to disobey or defy or insult the The High King or Queen, then Our Glorious Sovereign can also: Enforce Its Reign 1. Imprison 2. Punish 3. Banish 4. Pardon 5. Grant Clemency to 6. Release 7. Reward the rebel(s). But an individual or Foundation can resist Sovereign Enforcement, but must then [I]combat the HIgh King or Queen. This may trigger an inter-Foundation war or rebellion (which is one of the many ways we can have fun with this). In the heat of battle, different Foundations might make a grab for the Sovereign by innovation, growth or victory. The only other kinds of Actions that we have are Divine Actions. At the beginning, the GM's will assist here, by posting Divine Actions. BUT - *any* player may accumulate Divine Ranks, and join in the freedom to post Divine Actions. But Divine Actions aren't posted liberally. A GM can overule a Divine Ranks post, if refereeing is required. Divine Actions Posters have large amounts of discretion (choice to act as you please) available to them with Divine Actions. 1. Battle Player-to-Deity 2. Rewards a Player Character with Divine Ranks for outstanding glorious acts 3. Punish a Player Character for Wreckless use of Power (i.e. De-munchkinise) 4. Try to Block the use of a mortal's or Foundation's power |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-18-04, 08:33 AM | Foundation Record Keeping (of Game Stats) The Soverign will need to keep The Sovereign Thread Powers, Laws and Mode current. The Sovereign Thread will tell a Time-Line of changes in what our World looks like. Guidelines for Judging Two groups 1. For Flavour Text 2. For Combat/Actions We all start with zero combat points, no allies and no friends, but we'll need to keep lists of these at our Foundations as this changes. Note. Because there are two sets of points allocated for every combat (melee and flavour text), you can win a combat if it's close on combat points. The Foundations that produced the best flavour text as they posted, will get rewarded in points at the time of melee. The Judges will make this ruling. Judges are probably going to be part of the Pantheon. |
| BronzeBeard10-18-04, 11:41 AM | I skipped on your first (no offense intended) but i'de like to, how we say in my homeland? kill each cow seperatly. [QUOTE] [list]A Foundation is any of an (in-game) group, country, collective, organisation or power base I just had in mind this idea of foundation=guild. But thats something else and i'll give it up. Your relationship with other countries occurs by your choice of the following options: 1. Declare War (The opposing nation will not trade or commun by any way) 2. Make Peace 3. Forge Alliance 4. Colony (The colony will do anything for the supreme nation) 5. Colonize 6. Provoke a Foundation, Group, Country or Culture 7. Imprison and Intruder 8. Parlay 9. Defend You need to explain what each of this opitions means (what is parlay? what is colonize? hows it different from act 5?) Exm: Act 1. Declare War - By initiating a war at opposing country you disconnect all trade and means you are now able (and probably will) send your army to conquere land from enemy country. New Nations must declare their Alliances. New nations start with attitude 4 towards high queen/king and attitude 2 towards all other nation. A country have Labor Points (LP) equal to ***TO BE DETERMINED AND DISCUSSED 2 + number of residents in its borders. LP may be used for either Building, Fighting or Worshipping any set period of time. And after having these points, each country may also use them to build towers and fortifications or build anything in the spirit of the foundation thread. A. (idea) The type of goverment may influence the quantity of labor pool. B. Building towers and fortifications are considered to be BUILD action. It's in the description I wrote. Think of a Foundation as having Combat Points and taking Actions, like a PC in D&D would have Hit Points and take Standard Actions in Core Rules D&D V3.5. You have to gain Combat Points and take Actions to influence the world.[/color] I am unfamiliar with the combat points actions and rules. Either write'em down or invent new so I'll know how to act in combat. When a new Foundation starts, it has zero Combat Points. As you make items, discuss and create spells, make undead (if you are from that Foundation) or work out ways to channel Holy Divine Power, you gain status, prestige, and glory as measured through Combat Points. You must remember that any LP-based points are not stacking. That is to say: you cannot accumulate CP! When your items, spells, spell-like effects, weapons, armour, minor and major artifacts are finished, the GMs (or Impartial Panel of Judges) will grant you a BURST OF COMBAT POINTS. So, you'll need to designate build-time, raw materials, and make the thing happen. I fail to see how this rule will be going along with my rule. Each player may have one preferred residency or you may have duel or multiple residencies. It will hurt the gameplay since it will (as playing as full dnd character will) overload us with tons of info. You must remember the following when creating something like this game: KIS"S - Keep It Simple 5. Do a D&D Action (Cast a Spell, Spell Like Effect, Use Wondrous Item, Minor Artifact, Major Artifact, Skill or Feat (for player-to-player combats) How? [color=red] But an individual or Foundation can resist Sovereign Enforcement, but must then combat the HIgh King or Queen. This may trigger an inter-Foundation war or rebellion (which is one of the many ways we can have fun with this). In the heat of battle, different Foundations might make a grab for the Sovereign by innovation, growth or victory. That is to say: After some time in the game it is a possibility that there will be more than one Sovereign power. Good Luck to us all |
| Von Crown10-18-04, 05:08 PM | Y'know, there's rules for something like this in a dragon issue somewhere between 280 and 300. If you want, I could find what issue it is at my public library, I think they were pretty good |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-18-04, 06:29 PM | Specific Questions: 1. Would you like the rules to read a less "political" and more "D&D-ish". 2. Would you like the rules simplified? If so, how? 3. Can you think of an easier way to write them up? 4. Who has any other ideas? 5. Who doesn't yet understand? 6. Anyone got other words for swapping into the rules, that makes it sound more flavoursome? 7. What do you need? regards stav When we are ready to begin, you need to know that there will be four/five threads that everyone needs to sign up on. Those threads will give you important clues, leads, clarification and so on. One of those threads, is the High King/Queen's thread - where the Sovereign Post will tell us things. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-18-04, 06:48 PM | Y'know, there's rules for something like this in a dragon issue somewhere between 280 and 300. If you want, I could find what issue it is at my public library, I think they were pretty good OK first off - ta muchly for the feedback to both of you. :) @VC - yes. If it's not too much trouble, please do. :) @BB OK :) great stuff, thank you. 1. The "residency" stuff - is out. 2. "Guild" or "Foundation" is a good word. It can be a country if you choose. It's "as you wish" for your home thread(s). 3. I like your idea of "attitude points" like we got in the Diplomacy Table in D&D. 4. You're right, each Foundation Action needs an explanation. 5. "Parlay" means "wave white flag and have a temporary truce, while at War". 6. Colonize, is an aggressive action, but only when a land is already peopled, whereas, Parlay is trying to do something peaceful, or less hot-tempered, perhaps. 7. Combat Points are like your Power Points 8. When a player goes into Player-to-Player mode (which you can do), then we need to cast individual spells etc. Also, during big battles, it might be the case that individuals, say, "go after the Dark Lord", in which case, we'd zoom in on that bit of combat, while also zooming out to the big picture. ....Alcare and Rilya listen to the sound of the rumbles in the earth. Alcare looks out the windows of the Peredhil Halls Sssargoth, the Half-Elves are only in suspended animation for a....short.....while.....longer......the n, you can, expect a surprise from them...*grins* ...All in the lands is uneasy. The High King paces nervously in his Keep, and many hundreds of leagues away in the Mountains, the Forges of the Dwarves sound in the vaults of the earth. The Champions of Pelor, attempt to Parlay with Silmarien, who studies them uneasily. She has heard, that before they were redeemed, the Champions of Pelor were cruel and wayward, following Vecna and were involved in devilry. She sighs, before turning to look outwards *at you*. She smiles, as she clicks the metal shod heel of the Runestaff three times on the stone floor. Her eyes flare to life with the familiar blue Dweomer of the Pereldar Starfire. She says "by Grace and guided by Humility, we cannot let the Dark Ones prevail. The Shadow grows, and 'tis said that The Dark Lord's Avatar walks the land, in defiance of Mythal Arnandahar of the Eternal Prison in the Nine Layers of Hell. We must hasten, lest you and your keep be ruined, corrupted or damned." |
| BronzeBeard10-18-04, 08:03 PM | Von Crown, If you could - that would be great. Specific Questions: 1. Would you like the rules to read a less "political" and more "D&D-ish". 2. Would you like the rules simplified? If so, how? 3. Can you think of an easier way to write them up? 4. Who has any other ideas? 5. Who doesn't yet understand? 6. Anyone got other words for swapping into the rules, that makes it sound more flavoursome? 7. What do you need? 1. No. The exact opposite. 2. Yes, but I will write them down myself. Infact, I ask for premission to write the rules post once we're done on the details. 3. Check above. 4. I do. Give me some time. 5. Not me. 6. :smirk: 7. ?? What threads do we need for this game? |
| BronzeBeard10-18-04, 08:54 PM | 1. The "residency" stuff - is out. 2. "Guild" or "Foundation" is a good word. It can be a country if you choose. It's "as you wish" for your home thread(s). 3. I like your idea of "attitude points" like we got in the Diplomacy Table in D&D. 4. You're right, each Foundation Action needs an explanation. 5. "Parlay" means "wave white flag and have a temporary truce, while at War". 6. Colonize, is an aggressive action, but only when a land is already peopled, whereas, Parlay is trying to do something peaceful, or less hot-tempered, perhaps. 7. Combat Points are like your Power Points 1. Why? :weep: :weep: :weep: :weep: :weep: 3. What idea? 5. You could enter that under peace (so it took only 3 minutes. But, hey, it's a peace). 6. That should enter under 'War'. (KIS"S) 7. I still don't have a clue what are you TALKING about. :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: |
| Silvanus10-18-04, 09:47 PM | Colonization (perhaps this should become annexation) is different from War, I think, because annexation implies a straight land grab. In war, you could just be trying to depose someone or hunt someone down. I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the whole idea of "nations." I see the foundations as being organizations within a larger framework- a world, with it's own governments and citizenry. Whatever people wannt, though. |
| king_of_evil00710-18-04, 10:17 PM | Specific Questions: 1. Would you like the rules to read a less "political" and more "D&D-ish". 2. Would you like the rules simplified? If so, how? 3. Can you think of an easier way to write them up? 4. Who has any other ideas? 5. Who doesn't yet understand? 6. Anyone got other words for swapping into the rules, that makes it sound more flavoursome? 7. What do you need? 1) More D&D-ish. 2) Simplified. I'll get more into that later. 3) They're well-written as far as I know, but I haven't had as much time to analyze as I wished. 4) Not me 5) ME! :D 6) Tyranny should become Malevolent. See below. 7) More internet time ;) These. . . labour points. Are they restored with time? How do we determine our population? Is it the amount of members in the thread? When your items, spells, spell-like effects, weapons, armour, minor and major artifacts are finished, the GMs (or Impartial Panel of Judges) will grant you a BURST OF COMBAT POINTS. So, you'll need to designate build-time, raw materials, and make the thing happen. Are we talking In-Game items (like, say, a Wall of Arrow Deflection for my lands) or actual d20 stuff? How will foundations based less upon creating stuff and more upon discussion gain combat/labour points? How will we pick a Sovereign? And what will this sovereign do? 2. The second level operates in any combination of seven different modes. At any one point in time, depending on who the High King or Queen is, we'll have a different world, defined by the Sovereign's Actions (outlined next section). A Mode is any of the various combinations of: Mode 1. we're at peace Mode 2. we're at war Mode 3. we're having an inter-Foundation Truce for Games (i.e. Olympic-games sort of thing) Mode 4. we're in a State of Monarchy (Law) Mode 5. we're in a State of Anarchy (Chaos) Mode 6. we're in a State of Benevolence (Good) Mode 7. we're in a State of Tryanny (Evil) SO a Sovereign says that we're at war? How does that work? I can see if two Foundations are at war, alright, or if a Sovereign says "The world is in a state of malevolent anarchy!"but what happens when the Sovereign says that "we" are at war? Who's we? So what kind of laws will the sovereign set? "Murder is bad", "Do not steal", etc? Or will they be more like "Foundations cannot create PrCs on Thursdays"? (hope not, but I had to ask) Btw: Malevolence might be a better word than tyranny, I think that tyranny makes me think of LE occupation, while malevolent is just evil. # After creating your Foundation, Country, Group or Collective for the game, you need to have relationships with other "countries". # Every country will need to engage in political, social, and economic activities with other nations. These are Foundation Actions So what do I get for doing this, or what do I lose for not trading with my friends? How do we determine what kind of lands we start with? What benefits do we gain from having lands? A country have Labor Points (LP) equal to ***TO BE DETERMINED AND DISCUSSED 2 + number of residents in its borders. LP may be used for either Building, Fighting or Worshipping any set period of time. And after having these points, each country may also use them to build towers and fortifications or build anything in the spirit of the foundation thread. So what is the "spirit" of a guild such as the Prestige Class Foundation? Do they create specialized warriors and mages from their classes? And what ISN'T under the purview of the Amazing Creators in terms of creation? My big question is, how do we determine starting assets, and what do these assets do for me and my foundation? What happens when I spend some labour points to build a wall, and another foundation attacks? Are our combat points compared? Do the judges and deities say "Well, judging by the 20000 Manji Lords. . ." where do these numbers come from? labour points? ". . .swarming over to the walls, I'd say they can fly over and decimate those inside the walls." or "The archers wipe out the Manji Lords" What happens when I take over another foundation? If my Manji Lords swarm over the walls and kill all the citizens? How is ordinary Foundation activity affected? Sorry if somebody's already asked/answered these questions? Edit: I also somewhat prefer the idea of guilds over nations. All this land and stuff like that overcomplicates things, I think. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-18-04, 10:38 PM | Hmm I generally like everything so far. I pretty much understand the game except for one thing: How easy will it be to rebel against the High King/Queen? How much extra power does he/she really have in order to put down rebels. Lets say for example of the Council of Archmages in a situations where I leave Silvanus in my place as I become a Judge. Nowl lets say for example Von Crown, another member of the CoA, decides HE would have been a better ruler. He gets one-two people on his side and everyone else stays relativly independant. Would both have an equal chance to fight and win? I would like to personally see the ability to change but no more that at MOST once per week. Not that we should make a strict time period just make it so hard that you couldn't do it in less than a week? Also if a Guild splits into factions can that "rebel faction" choose a faction leader who can ally/peace/trade ect with other leaders as if he was the King/Queen of the entire foundation? -Frosty |
| thasis10-18-04, 11:29 PM | @Sil You still amaze me. The rules system rocks. All your ideas rock to. @Von Crown Welcome to the wonderful guild wars. I am looking forward to meeting you in it. My armys of Darkness and Holy Light march off. Each one under a diffrent clone of the avatar of Thasis. They prepare for battle and get ready to set up camp. Theres a long day ahead of us all. By the way, the original avatar of Thasis is the one who controls the Guild of Ultimate Evil. |
| necrodude1610-19-04, 02:47 AM | If we are still going with the character thing i think we should sort that out first so people have time to make characters n stuff . :D :D *don't come visiting the COTP |
| BronzeBeard10-19-04, 07:12 AM | OK, I hope that sil will forgive me if I'll answer some question (sil, let me know if I where wrong or right by doing so). Silvanus: 1. Colonization is not that different from War. The 'War' poloitical attitude is to say that both nations in war will not trade, not help each other and trading between them will be determinated. You don't need to give name for every political action you do. Inside the 'War' statement theres also the: Cold War, Active War, Boycot and Border closed actions. It all depend on how you act After you declare War. 2. See below. KoE: 1. As for the Labor Points - I don't know (yet) how they are restored. It is mainly based on whenever we'll do it turn-based or not. If it will be based on turns than you'll have a set amount of points per turns (Remember, they points are not comulative!). 2. You gain amount of LP equal to the number of your members + 2 (following my version of the rules). So you will have: (Arhra, Deladrion Garthin, Epic Scotsman, Fuzzy Logic Inc., Jharviss, Klaus van der Kroft, Lady Ishtar, Thasis, Thomar of Uointer and... Me!! :D ) 12 points in your labor pool (The leader doesn't count - or count as 2 points, depends how you look at it). 3. Right now I can see 3 different ways of becoming the Sovereign: Most people (more than 2/3), elections (but others may be able to outnumber you in that way) and pure force (challanging the High Queen). 4. Trading is only good for getting, legaly, other Foundation's items, spells, stuff and resources once we figure'em out. 5. I know I didn't answered for all of your questions, but there are somtimes that even the great matt don't know things. Frost: 1. Keep in mind that High Queen/King is not a set DC. It's some other player that is playing the Great Leader since he was the last to win the title. If you want to either rebel and go or rebel and get the title for yourself than you'd have to fight against this someone and that means your "task DC" will be his stats, whatever they are. 2. Are you reffering to turn-based act once per or real life time? I am :confused: 3. Yed, he can ally/peace/trade ect with other leaders as if he was the King/Queen of the entire foundation thasis: @Sil You still amaze me. The rules system rocks. All your ideas rock to. :rant: , I helped... Anyway, 2. ...on his glance down, towards the earth, he notice the puny beings and their friends. Pointing, he describe the other titans how his work had shaped the big blue-red into great plains of vast space. "But enought chatting." Says one of the Titans next to him "We have, yet , more work to be done shaping the earth..." necrodude16: Hold on with those char's we still have some woek to do. About that Foundation will be guild suff - I also think changing the country to guilds in the capital city will help us by simplifing things (which is my moto - KIS"S). But that means we now need new rules that fit the new Guilds interface. However, going on the guilds is not my decision so if any of you wants to go to Foundation = Guild than let me heard your voice. |
| thasis10-19-04, 09:30 AM | Sorry BronzeBeard. I didn't know you helped. Didn't meant to exclude you. |
| turalisj10-19-04, 09:41 AM | when are we going to get a map up? :confused: |
| BronzeBeard10-19-04, 10:08 AM | You want a map? Whos for a map? P.S. thasis, no offense taken. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-19-04, 06:43 PM | OK - first off - thank you for all the fantastic work and great questions. Now - my apologies if I miss something in your posts - please re-post your question if I do. It's just that I have a short amount of time until later today, when I'll have a much closer look. OK - "Guilds" and not necessarily nations is a good idea. @BB About "residency" - it's a hard concept to manage. Rather than "residency" let's call it "countryman" or "subject of the King". And - as for "proving residency", that depends on what the Sovereign Ruler posts as the Rule of the Land. A Chaotic Sovereign, may not support the notion of "subject of the King". So - "King's Subject"+"Sovereign-Decides" are the two terms we'll work with. Thank you for all your assistance. It is appreciated. @King Of Evil Now - they're good questions too. About "labour points" we need to discuss this. I'm not sure if they need to be replenished or are cumulative (growing). After all, one's people don't just stop being able to create labour, just because they've made an item or two, or because they've got some crops. So - I think Labour Points should have some standards for the rate you can build things. You can build stuff, just like in PHBook, items, Artifacts. You need to think about what you need to be the strongest nation - and what you need to defeat the powers you are threatened by. I've hinted at Mythal Arnandaher and its role in our Mythology. WHO's THE FIRST SOVEREIGN! GOOD QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm open to idea..... Like all Sovereigns - they can try to make the masses do things. Any Guild (or country) can defy the sovereign.....BUT.....if you LOSE you're gunna incur Sovereign Enforcement Actions - like being tossed into dungeons, beheddings, lynchings for Treasonous behaviour, all those sorts of things. A Benevolent Sovereign would use other methods. A Malevolent Sovereign (good change of word!!) would not stop for a moment to behed a PC for Treason. @Frosty Yes!! They're all good ideas. How do you rebel against the King? Well, you could get a group of Archmages together, post on the Sovereign thread with some magic, and then see what happens (remembering that the Judges determine the Victors). Or, you could attack the King's forces on the Battlefield - or you could steal from the Armoury, or you could destroy his magic.....etc. Rebellious activity, things that defy the Sovereigns Reign (as per Sovereign Post). Some sovereigns won't last long, some might last for ages. Think like a Startrek episode, with Kardassians, Romulans, Vulcans, Klingons. And how they all go this way or that way, depending..... OK - for the people who are still unclear - ask a specific question, like the ones already answered |
| king_of_evil00710-19-04, 08:30 PM | I'm unclear on foundation war. . . How do we determine our armies? Is it similar to labour points (like the number of foundation members you have) or does it depend on how much work you've been doing, your combat points, and whatnot. And how are these armies victorious? I mean, if we have armies, who needs PvP combat when we can send an army to do something? *disclaimer* If you don't like the following rant, don't respond to it, or simply tell me you don't like it. I'm not saying that everything is bad, I'm merely voicing an opinion. I have no intent to be flaming or to cause offense. IMO, the whole "nation" idea might not work, because then we have to worry about lands and defenses and population and harvesting. . . Personally, I think a better interactoin would be to have like one big "city". ALl the foundations are guilds or actual city districts. The Sovereign is like the Mayor or King. The deities still play a major role. This way, the "Games" are far more personal. I mean, who cares if King_of_Evil outfits all his Foundation members with +3 weapons (an expensive proposition), when armies are assaulting each other? Determining the effects of these armies, lands, etc might just get too complex. I think that the core concept of foundations competing and allying with each other will be forgotten in the hunt for "I want your mountain!" "I have a ballista defending it!" "My armies will swarm your ballista!" I mean, we won't need to make characters, it'll be all army based after a while. Army & artifact based. Less on masterful plots to steal other guilds prized artifacts in order to take control of the world, intricate spy campaigns between guilds, plots to become sovereign, and generally, we'll lose sight of the people. It's like the difference between a videogame RPG and an RTS, game mechanics aside. In an RPG game, generally your party of 3-6 characters are the main focus. YOu learn about their capabilities, the story is more intricate, etc. In an RTS, the focus is far more broad, with less attention given to the common conscript or to the generals, to the people who make it all happen, to us, which I feel is far more important, since WE are the people who make it all happen. Of course, maybe my proposed changes are too much. . . if you guys don't like them, that's fine with me. I was just musing on ways to make this less complicated. . . |
| anglar10-19-04, 09:37 PM | The underground is mine. This is the line a death. You cross it without permission, you die. :D |
| Tenzhi10-20-04, 02:45 AM | I mean, if we have armies, who needs PvP combat when we can send an army to do something? All kingdoms have armies. This being the case, why does it always fall to a small party of PCs to save the world? ;) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 04:12 AM | All kingdoms have armies. This being the case, why does it always fall to a small party of PCs to save the world? ;) Onecheesy post before a formal response to the previous posts. *cracks* Sil-Marsha says: Oh Tenzh! *pouts**swooshes hair* What does that have to do with the prom? Sil-Lisa-Simpsonian says: It's the rule of The People who decide things! Mary Antoinette tried it once "let them eat cake" she said in defiance of the masses - and look what happened to her! Sil-Mr-Burns-ian says: I like your style Tenzhi. The more one person controls everything - the more money I can make! Jan-Marien: rrreeeaaahhhhh *pulls it together. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 04:20 AM | OK - On the "countries versus Guilds" thing. If you want to do a Mahatma Gandhi - go right ahead. If that's too cryptic for you - what I mean is. It's horses for courses. Some individuals have been very influential in history. Such people range from being psycho despots (Hitler) to benevolent law-breakers (Nelson Mandella). It's your choice you enjoy it. The thing is, though, peoples, Mahatma and Nelson did not do it alone. They had the Support of the People. So - what I'm saying is BUILD YOUR FOUNDATIONS AS YOU PLEASE. To influence the lands as a Solo artist - you'll have to convince people to help you. On the other hand - you may run a Country if you choose. That's what the Judges and GMs are for - to smooth it over when we find creases. *gets out Fabulon* (Ozzie brand that "helps stamp out wrinkles" when ironing) Now - I need ideas for Labour Points. If you want to fit out a 1000 strong armed force. How much manpower goes into one sword? How much metal, and where do you get the Smithies, raw materials etc? Stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 06:30 AM | Two PS's 1. To Bronze Beard. I've had a think about your request to cut the rules. My answer is "ok" *BUT* - a. Subject to editing by your GMs that is guided by consultation with The People. b. You may host the thread (i.e. you may be threadkeeper) BB. c. They are not rules to be monopolised by any single poster. Your GM's and other posters are central in the consideration. d. If ANYONE IS UPSET BY THIS - I'll cancel the offer to BB. DO YOU ACCEPT THESE TERMS 2. Who is to be First High King/Queen? Suggestion - come forth Hosts of the Brave and Heroes of your Clans. Declare yourself - thence - ye shall do Battle on the Battle - and be judged. Time TO WRITE UP YOUR CHARACTERS AND POST THEM - 15th Level!!! ANY OBJECTIONS? ANY QUESTIONS? HAVE I MISSED ANY QUESTIONS? |
| Tenzhi10-20-04, 06:41 AM | Time TO WRITE UP YOUR CHARACTERS AND POST THEM - 15th Level!!! If you're going to start the posting of characters, there should be a thread specifically for it and the first post should track links to each character possibly organized by their apparent affiliation(s). |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 07:28 AM | If you're going to start the posting of characters, there should be a thread specifically for it and the first post should track links to each character possibly organized by their apparent affiliation(s). Yes Elf-Bane - is that an offer to host that thread??? *grins* |
| BronzeBeard10-20-04, 09:36 AM | Ohy! WAIT! Don't start with the character making yet! we still need 2 things prior to making them. First - we need, before making anything, we need judges. We need judges for everything and if we're making char's than we need them now. So start signing up for judging. Second -we need to deside of the character sheet. As it is, the game is not suitable for full DND char's. We need to decide how the game will go with it. About hosting the rules thread. I don't recall posting so but I'de be both glad and honored to do so. I'll get to it ASAP only note that I may not (and WILL not) have n answer to every question or solution for every situtation. That's why we need both your posts and judges (AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE THEM!). I suggest that the first sorveighn (or mayor, depends) will be choosed the most-members-in-club criteria. KoE, nice thinking about that guild (I wonder where you got the idea from... :D ). Nations and Guilds, by my view, don't get along. It's either that or the other way. While playing in Guild game style make the indaviduals more important and involved in the game, it will greatly reduce the teamplay of political and otherwise actions being made by an all powerfull nation. Personaly, I'm all for Guilds in Town style. Tell me before I post the rule thread. All kingdoms have armies. This being the case, why does it always fall to a small party of PCs to save the world? :) Anglar: before jumping in yelling statements, think - does the sewers actually already exist? We don't even have a hamlet... |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 09:46 AM | Ohy! WAIT! Don't start with the character making yet! we still need 2 things prior to making them. First - we need, before making anything, we need judges. We need judges for everything and if we're making char's than we need them now. So start signing up for judging. Second -we need to deside of the character sheet. As it is, the game is not suitable for full DND char's. We need to decide how the game will go with it. Steady *chuckles* Yes - judges AND judging standards Yes to the second bit. stav |
| turalisj10-20-04, 10:09 AM | what is the starting amount of gold for each player? or do we randomly roll and hope that you'll trust us? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 10:22 AM | what is the starting amount of gold for each player? or do we randomly roll and hope that you'll trust us? Good question. What do people in a new Land have available? *bing* People - what do you think of GELLION's idea - that we cut some Geography threads e.g. The Mines - one or several threads - which are filled with precious metals and so on. And - people have to fight for them - or allied groups SHARE them She who has the thread - gets access to precious resources. Stav |
| BronzeBeard10-20-04, 12:28 PM | I just tried to build the Rules post and have encountered into few obstacles that needs to be fixed before going on - I. When going on the Guild system it's clear that there will be no LP or collective CP for the guild and so (beside bossing his members around) what can a Foundation Leader can do? II. I need some way of converting spells into IFG (Inter Foundation Game) suitable spell, in other words: How you cast a quickend (example) in IFG? We deffenetly need new system. III. How does the location of my Foundation matters? If the (as anglar said) club is in the underground then what? IV. We need Judges, any luck? V. We also need character sheets for the IFG any idea? Thanks bb |
| king_of_evil00710-20-04, 05:49 PM | What do we use, point buy? Or can I just roll and roll until I get all 18's, then apply the James Bond bonus to boost my Charisma into the thousands? :D |
| BronzeBeard10-20-04, 06:24 PM | What do we use, point buy? Or can I just roll and roll until I get all 18's, then apply the James Bond bonus to boost my Charisma into the thousands? :D What will you make and by what rules and who judge? |
| turalisj10-20-04, 06:28 PM | i once had a elven ranger with 21 dexterity. un-touchable. :D man that was a great thing. |
| BronzeBeard10-20-04, 07:00 PM | K, I've built the rules thread. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=325855 |
| anglar10-20-04, 07:38 PM | :) Anglar: before jumping in yelling statements, think - does the sewers actually already exist? We don't even have a hamlet... Don't confuse me with the one who's married to Silmarien. We are the same and different at once. When I say underground, I mean Underdark. This is my world, my Hell, and I'm the devil. |
| Gellion10-20-04, 07:50 PM | Good question. What do people in a new Land have available? *bing* People - what do you think of GELLION's idea - that we cut some Geography threads e.g. The Mines - one or several threads - which are filled with precious metals and so on. And - people have to fight for them - or allied groups SHARE them She who has the thread - gets access to precious resources. Stav Heh, I never specifically said that, but oh well. well, it is yours and who ever else is running this things choice really. :) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 07:50 PM | K, I've built the rules thread. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=325855 Well done. If anyone can think of their own "records-keeping & management" threads for this gig, please post the ideas here. I like to encourage your posting autonomy (bounded by the terms of the CoC), because, when you do it responsibly, you take those respectful-autonomy skills into your lives. Remember - no hijaking :) BB - once we're done here - we can use the thread for meta-discussions - or we can have a separate thread, leaving your rules thread with 1 post only. BB - I haven't yet read the rules you have cut - but thanx in advance. We'll advise you of edits as we encounter need. stav We have at least one judge, Tenzhi. We only two. Three is better, and I think a cap of five. With an even number, a GM can cast a deciding vote. Is anyone else coming forth? I think Frosty said he would? We need regular posters for it. Tenzh is very reliable, and that's what it needs. Labour Points 1. I will host a Calendar thread. You will all need to subscribe to it Every time I post, some time will have elapsed. Exactly how much - that's about being a GM. Sometimes a day, sometimes a week. 2. Then - two kinds of Labour available: a. You keep a list of members. The more members, the more woman-hours you have b. Delegated by Judges and GMs. There will be particular threads peopled by NPC communities. If you can get control of those, your labour points go up accordingly. You'll have to vie for these lands, in the first place. There will be the following available: 1. One 20th level wizard, cleric, druid, etc (as per PHB) per thousand people. 2. One 10 10th level characters. 3. 20 5th level characters. 4. And the rest - zero level. Once you have captured these lands - you can create magic items and armour much more quickly. BUT YOU will ALSO NEED RAW MATERIALS - I'm hoping Gellion will host the Geographies Series of threads. Then - WE STILL NEED PEOPLE TO COMMENT ON HOW TO INTEGRATE THE ALIGNMENT THREADS! I'm here all day today - I'm working from home. I'll check new posts every hour or so and my Avatar will be "on-line" stav |
| Gellion10-20-04, 08:00 PM | I will think about hosting the geographies section. As you know it takes me a while to think on these things, but I will hopefully have the answer soon. :) |
| Silvanus10-20-04, 09:30 PM | EDIt- Nevermind, came in too late. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 09:33 PM | @Anglar I just saw the red writing - which of course - means that Anglar wrote it. *Silm furroughs her brow and grits her teeth.....he will not be permitted to live if he comes anywhere near the children. Compassion stayed our hand in the Underdark, when his suffering was seen as an open wound - and partly caused by" waves hands "some other Silmarien in another reality. Apparently - she betrayed him and left him." Gellion!! Excellent. I was thinking we would develop ideas on your Core Geography thread - and then cut some new threads with the ideas we have developed there. So *looks at reader* we need your input on the Geographies thread. What gets created there as Core Resources - will end up being part of The World stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-20-04, 09:36 PM | EDIt- Nevermind, came in too late. Speak! Hi there Silv. good to see you. No matter if it's another view or a rehash - let's have a look! |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-20-04, 09:47 PM | Your correct Lady Sil I did offer my services as a Judge. Of course that won't mean I won't do my best as a judge...but a judge doesn't have to really worry about all different aspects of the game and lying, fighting, worrying about numbers ect ect. Also we need to bring up the question again: Are the judges the gods? And if you achieve divine rank you still arent a judge just somewhat among them? And if judges are gods than do they pick a portfolio or is will that provoke them into picking favorites? Anyways if anyone has a problem with me being a judge beacuse I am in Guilds remeber this, you dont have to be in a foundation to know somone in a foundation which can be just as bad. -Frosty EDIT: Also as a judge thus being neutral I would have no problem in helping make a fair but detailed map with different advantages depending on where you are. I have dabbled (SP?) in wargames in the past so I have some experiance with such a thing. EDIT2: I dont know who will be taken over in-game control of the CoA for now. Details at work. |
| anglar10-20-04, 10:02 PM | @Anglar I just saw the red writing - which of course - means that Anglar wrote it. *Silm furroughs her brow and grits her teeth.....he will not be permitted to live if he comes anywhere near the children. Compassion stayed our hand in the Underdark, when his suffering was seen as an open wound - and partly caused by" waves hands "some other Silmarien in another reality. Apparently - she betrayed him and left him." "Perhaps I should change so that I can be more easily identified from my other." Strolls about the room. "You have nothing to fear from me where Alcare and Rilya are concerned. They are in no way part of my greater plan. I dare say that my actions in this little swaray shall be miniscule, until due time that is." |
| Silvanus10-20-04, 10:09 PM | Frosty, could you please make some room in you pm inbox? I need to send you a message. I was going to say that I think D&D stats are fine for this. Also, I thought a GM should host the rules thread- no offense to BronzeBeard, obviously, I just thought it'd be more "official" that way. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-20-04, 10:54 PM | All fixed Silv. Anyways P.S- In case you haven't noticed foundation popularity is dying. Most foundations have few posts and those that have a lot have few recent ones. Their are really no main projects or anything going on in any foundation that I have noticed. People aren't even really discussing this as much. So I was writing to the head of the Dwarven foundation talking about a little loopwhole in which we could make another foundation and invite a whole bunch of older-foundation people to join it and have that be everyone whos in it main foundation. Then I relized that I was prehaps soon to be a judge and not only was I trying to organize somthing for one foundation but I was cheating in a way :P. But aside from that I think thats what we should do. If we have each foundation do this individually we won't get too much of a response. People who are in small foundations won't participate beacuse they think their foundation will be too weak to protect them and do anything. Even bigger foundations might have trouble getting people to partcipate. So i think we should make 4 or 5 "teams" which are a collection of foundations. This way if your foundation or most people in your foundation dont want to participate you can still without joining another. I won't expand on the idea such as will we still have leaders for each foundation ect ect until I hear some feedback. -Frosty |
| Von Crown10-20-04, 11:40 PM | Eh, I dunno if this is too late, but the dragon magazine is issue 293. Aside from that, I think normal DnD stats would be fine for indidual characters. Also, how long do we have to make them? And what about what books we can use? I was hoping to use the "Live My Nightmare" spelltouched feat from unearthed Arcana. Also, what of creatures with no official Level Adjustments? I need a LA for a brain in a jar (I thought it came to about +4, but I'm known for not being known to do LA)... So... yeah... |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-21-04, 12:04 AM | Frosty - you know I think very well of you don't you. Your ideas are very sound. But - objective stats don't bear out the "death-hypothesis". Meaning - many threads have natural terms of life. Objectively - we have more traffic here than at Metaboards (or whatever it's called these days). We have as much traffic as FR boards (on a good day) and on a really good day - as much even as D&D Magic. It's About Faith and a Sense of Self-Belief or Self-Worth Sil turns her attention to Frostbite - her piercing green eyes hold your gaze Lord Frostbite. Sil is smiling broadly and warmly at her very old friend. She says "Frostbite Ravenheart. All things in life pass. Some never return, but you will find that many return to you over and again, and that which returns, is very much about faith in the process of life - or in whatever deity you believe in. Faith comes to those who believe it - and that's the way it is. Pride comes to those who believe it - and that's the way it is. Happiness comes to those who believe it - and that's the way it is. That which you Manifest - is that which you Find. And that's the way it is. People who are in small foundations won't participate beacuse they think their foundation will be too weak to protect them and do anything Not necessarily. But, that's why we encourage The NPC-Communties concept. A single member, who secures NPC communities, can command much. Similarly, amazing innovations (a-la godless clerics) - when discovered - will dramatically alter the landscape. That all said - we could very well create three of four teams of three or four people, and in that way, have a very very sound basis for a campaign-like adventure. After all, we don't have thousands of people when we play D&D, yet, we command enourmous power, in the right settings. What say you people? stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-21-04, 12:11 AM | Eh, I dunno if this is too late, but the dragon magazine is issue 293. Aside from that, I think normal DnD stats would be fine for indidual characters. Also, how long do we have to make them? And what about what books we can use? I was hoping to use the "Live My Nightmare" spelltouched feat from unearthed Arcana. Also, what of creatures with no official Level Adjustments? I need a LA for a brain in a jar (I thought it came to about +4, but I'm known for not being known to do LA)... So... yeah... Not too late, at all. You may use any book you like. What matters is, that it's posted and known. Sounds like a great basis for a PC. OK - normal D&D stats versus alterations? Any other opinions? stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-21-04, 12:32 AM | "Perhaps I should change so that I can be more easily identified from my other." Strolls about the room. "You have nothing to fear from me where Alcare and Rilya are concerned. They are in no way part of my greater plan. I dare say that my actions in this little swaray shall be miniscule, until due time that is." Lucky I'm not red-blue colour blind *chuckles* "Ahh, I see" she says warmly to Anglar. The Children are beyond my ken, husband. While they are young, they depend on their parents. However, they have a high Fate - but what it actually is" her eyes focus on the horizon "none, even amongst the Wise could say....." Rilya looks up at you - she is grinning and Alcare is likewise, somewhere between being seemingly sheepish and focussed. |
| Tenzhi10-21-04, 12:35 AM | No, I was not offering to host the character thread. I'm much too lackadaisical to properly keep up with such a task. How much "gold" should a 15th level character have? Just use the table in the DMG for character wealth by level to determine the sum total worth of items and gold a character should have. And to be fair point buy is an obvious way to go, but using one of the default arrays might be even better. |
| thasis10-21-04, 12:54 AM | For armys what should we do. Thasis himeself and even his Avatars have humungo armys (this is a little overexagerated but you get the point). Is each individual person going to have there own army or are we just going to have one big army per foundation? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-21-04, 02:19 AM | Hmm, first off, hi to the both of you. Good questions and comments. Yes, Tenzh - we could do it that way 1. Individuals stashes AND 2. Foundation stashes as follows (by example): e.g. Thasis, Frostbite and the Archmages and the others all do battle for control over the gold mines. The Arhcmages defeated thasis and the others are thus currently in charge of the world's gold-supplies. However, Thasis won the Fertile Lands thread - and so the two foundations exchange goods and services. The Half-Elves won the Mithril mines and the Planar creatures command the Ancient Library of Aarendor. The Peredhil need access to the library, and so pay to do so. But - there is a great drought on (GM's discretion) and the Archmages have no food, for not even their counsel can feed 5000 souls (from their NPC communities threads). Make sense? stav |
| anglar10-21-04, 02:32 AM | Lucky I'm not red-blue colour blind *chuckles* "Ahh, I see" she says warmly to Anglar. The Children are beyond my ken, husband. While they are young, they depend on their parents. However, they have a high Fate - but what it actually is" her eyes focus on the horizon "none, even amongst the Wise could say....." Rilya looks up at you - she is grinning and Alcare is likewise, somewhere between being seemingly sheepish and focussed. "Husband? But that I were, or at least was going to be, in another life and verse. No, your other self left me for the Chosen Elf of Mystra. Blood under the bridge, nothing more." To make it easier for people to differentiate when I was the Anglar that is most seen here and the Anglar, vampire Drow, I changed his posting color to blue. Sorry if I confused you any luv. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-21-04, 02:46 AM | "Husband? But that I were, or at least was going to be, in another life and verse. No, your other self left me for the Chosen Elf of Mystra. Blood under the bridge, nothing more." To make it easier for people to differentiate when I was the Anglar that is most seen here and the Anglar, vampire Drow, I changed his posting color to blue. Sorry if I confused you any luv. *chuckles* Oustanding Issues 1. Starting Gold 2. D&D versus non D&D characters 3. Individuals versus teams of 3/4 4. NPC Territories Threads 5. Armies 6. Dragon publications ideas. 7. Miscellaneous I will give you all 1 more day to comment on this. As it stands 1. 2 kinds of gold stashes: individual and Foundation stashes 2. I'm leaning towards D&D characters at this stage. 3. I'm open to either model - you must comment 4. We're going to have NPC territories and resources threads. People will have to vie for access to them, and then establish trading routes between them. 5. Your armies are based on the number of NPC communities you have. 6. Hurry up with the Dragon magazine stuff 7. Open. Who is confused? If yes about what? Who wants to change things? If so - speak or forever hold your peace. 10....9....8.... |
| anglar10-21-04, 02:56 AM | Doesn't matter. I'm going to kill everybody and let the gods sort you out. let's see how many responses this gets |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-21-04, 03:08 AM | Doesn't matter. I'm going to kill everybody and let the gods sort you out. let's see how many responses this gets *grins* Remember - may the best foundation win! .....7..... When we get to "0" you will find 1. a list of URLS that you must all subscribe to 2. a PC character thread ready to go. 3. The Pantheon, Judging Panel and Meta-Game threads 4. The Geography-Series (inc. NPC communities, and resources). 5. A throne without a King.....thread....thing.... ....the earth rumbles - and black clouds billow over the Mountains. The autumn winds suddenly break the warmth of the airs, and bring cold rains down in torrents. Deep in the vaults of Peredhil Halls, Rilya studies a Tome about the Deity Bane - "Daddy" she says, looking at Anglar with trusting but fearful gaze "How can Bane see so far - how does he know when anyone feels hate? Will he come and get us, if we feel hate for anyone?" |
| king_of_evil00710-21-04, 07:54 AM | So, spell it out in plain english for those who are confused by multicoloured speech ;) Character creation: Point buy, I'm assuming? HOw many points? Wealth: table in DMG? What are we allowed? PrCs? From any WotC source, DMG ones only? WHat about custom classes? |
| BronzeBeard10-21-04, 05:32 PM | Ok, listen up folks. I've been toying alot with the individual playing concept and decided that the best thing would be to work via the Magic-The Gathering rules: Means - every body got: A. Defence rating (= hp in DnD version) B. Attack rating (= BaB) With the additons of: C. gp (since you can buy your own artifact that helps only you!) D. MP (for magic and spells and the like) If the idea doesn't seem good to you than state why or how could I change it. I agree to play at full DnD rules if that is the crowd choice. In response to some of your posts: Silmarien Aldalome - I'll be honored if the rules thread will be used as meta-discussions place (for rules, that is). As for Judges, I suggest the number seven. We could go and pm some folks at the dnd forums or something like it. Calendar thread is a very nice idea although the passing time must be in a set period of time. Otherwise I'll be surprised every time and it won't be any fun. all - Labour Points has lost there taste if we're going on the guild-basis game. If we're going on the country-basis game than we have plenty of labor-based-abilities and actions. A guild have a less options fighting a country and less possibilitis to wins so think it through before starting - do we want guilds or countries? Frosty - don't forget that the Judge sometimes must return over and over on the same damn post to see, who was right and who won, and by that make his job MUCH more hard. And i really don't think that players will be able to accend to divine power that fast, so every thing at the time. Silvanus - No offense taken (I suddenly say that alot...) Frosty (second post) - Well, the main idea of the IFWG was the foundation-based-grouping. In a way the game is also raise the popularity (I hope). but the pop is dying, i know... Anglar - you silly sunglasses man is not capable of winning a fine tiefling such as I... All & Sil - Please state the main idea clear!: guild-basis or country-basis the choice is very important. thanks in advance. BB |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-21-04, 06:49 PM | Ok, listen up folks. I've been toying alot with the individual playing concept and decided that the best thing would be to work via the Magic-The Gathering rules: steady - In response to some of your posts: Silmarien Aldalome - I'll be honored if the rules thread will be used as meta-discussions place (for rules, that is). :cool: no hijacking :) As for Judges, I suggest the number seven. We could go and pm some folks at the dnd forums or something like it. too many. Unless someone has a compelling argument to the contrary. Cause, we'll be waiting a month for all seven to post a reply (it's hard enough getting a reply, on some days from one poster. Who wants to be waiting to see if that last sword stroke won the contest. :) IMO - maximum 5, ideally 3, 1 will suffice (with GM assistance) unless someone has a compelling argument to the contrary. Calendar thread is a very nice idea although the passing time must be in a set period of time. Otherwise I'll be surprised every time and it won't be any fun. that's GM's business - but to give you an idea, it will assist with the building of items and things, so we don't have to wait 100 years to make a scroll of magic missile. Labour Points has lost there taste if we're going on the guild-basis game. If we're going on the country-basis game than we have plenty of labor-based-abilities and actions. A guild have a less options fighting a country and less possibilitis to wins so think it through before starting - do we want guilds or countries? Yes and No. Or No and Yes. Let's just see how it goes, with *both* guilds and countries - and if it causes problems, we'll revise as we go. A guild does have fewer options for exerting power over the world - but that's life. It makes the game more interesting, potentially. On the other hand, running the NPC Threads - will be made as realistic as possible by GM posts. It's both. And i really don't think that players will be able to accend to divine power that fast, so every thing at the time. Let's wait and see Anglar - you silly sunglasses man is not capable of winning a fine tiefling such as I... I'll leave that one for Ang - Thanx BB - Next post is for BB |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-21-04, 07:10 PM | I, mean KoE Ang+Tenzh+Frosty+gell+th+KoE+Turalis+all Others - please assert your views. regards stav So, spell it out in plain english for those who are confused by multicoloured speech ;) Character creation: Point buy, I'm assuming? HOw many points? Wealth: table in DMG? What are we allowed? PrCs? From any WotC source, DMG ones only? WHat about custom classes? Thanx KoE - BTW - I've seen you round at FR boards. While I've got everyone's attention - you should watch what your GM is up to at FR. I host a Shadow Weave thread there - and *grins* it's an important source of Lore. There's also an EHM thread where we're doing....stuff..... Don't be shocked if you find magical developments here at Guild House and everyone - feel free to come and join us at FR, where we can expand our Postership at Guild House by getting to know other posters at FR. But the trick is not to be put off by the transient posters. Look out for the stayers. If we can get The Simbul, Telagaunt, Cthulhu, Cunning Linguist, or Kuje here....or Delendir (who is more sporadic) Character Build: Point Buy=yes. Exactly how many, well, let's hear from everyone. For the posters who haven't heard of point buy, it's an option where you get a number of points, and you split those in any way you like over your Ability Scores. We might split it into two groups (core) and (magically enhanced) Ability Points. Character Wealth=yes, let's use Tenzhi's idea Foundation Wealth=0 to start off with. Character Classes=ANYTHING YOU LIKE!! FROM ANYWHERE YOU LIKE as long as it isn't a Munchkin. :) Do we have any takers for hosting the Geographies Threads - GELLION has first dibs, as he came up with the really cool idea. Also - please post on Gellion's thread - we need LANDMARKS for our world. So far we have at least one other parallel plane, and two Mythals. Now, I'm off to work. Treat each other respectfully. I won't be pleased if I come home to find irritable posts. stav |
| turalisj10-21-04, 07:10 PM | we could have DM- they guy who organized the wizards challenge. but he hasnt posted for a llllllloooooooonnnnnnnnnggggggg time. just my 1 cent. |
| Gellion10-21-04, 07:23 PM | Do we have any takers for hosting the Geographies Threads - GELLION has first dibs, as he came up with the really cool idea. I might, but I am still not sure what being a "host" for the thread means. So, if someone could tell me I might actually do it, or I might not. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-21-04, 10:02 PM | To BronzeBeard- Meh your more or less right and I'll leave it at that. To Sil: I'd be willing to host somthing if I knew more details. I'll take anything though I'm not picky. I'll post a few ideas in Gells thread. -Frosty |
| Sssargoth10-21-04, 11:11 PM | Someone mentioned point buy for creation. I don't like PB. PB doesnt give the 'organic' feel that the randomness of dice gives. everything else looks good to me. |
| anglar10-21-04, 11:21 PM | Someone mentioned point buy for creation. I don't like PB. PB doesnt give the 'organic' feel that the randomness of dice gives. everything else looks good to me. But if we don't do point-buy, then someone will think that someone else just decided what stats to put somewhere. Point-buy is the only way to keep things on a fairly even keel. I suggest 32 PB, BTW. |
| Silvanus10-21-04, 11:26 PM | I agree with Anglar. Rolling ability scores for online play leaves too much room for real or imagined cheating, IMHO. |
| turalisj10-22-04, 09:31 AM | But if we don't do point-buy, then someone will think that someone else just decided what stats to put somewhere. Point-buy is the only way to keep things on a fairly even keel. I suggest 32 PB, BTW. would work out for me. |
| thasis10-22-04, 11:41 AM | I'm not familiar at point buying. Never in my life have I used it. Actualy I've pretty much always used my own dice rolling concepts. Can someone tell me the average scores you'll get with point buy. |
| Silvanus10-22-04, 02:43 PM | It depends on the number of ponts, thasis. The chart is: Attribute Score......Cost 8...................0 pts 9...................1 pts 10..................2 pts 11..................3 pts 12..................4 pts 13..................5 pts 14..................6 pts 15..................8 pts 16.................10 pts 17.................13 pts 18.................16 pts So with 32 points... do the math! :teach: |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-22-04, 09:44 PM | Hi everyone, apologies for the delay - but a BIG moment here - well a little big moment - I now have BROADBAND - and OMG it's so MUCH faster. I'm sure I was going grey prematurely on my old 77 MHz machine, with 38800 modem dial up. I thought I'd discovered light speed when I got a faster machine with 56K dial up - but - *this* - it's like having trans-warp drive at home! @ Gellion "Hosting" means being threadkeepr for a thread or thread-series. The 'hosting' part recognises that the content of those threads affects the direction of the world. So, you, may for example, host Mythal Skybridge, or whatever, and that thread would have a number of items, gold, powers and otherwise available to certain groups. Or, we might have the Mithril Mines of Aarendor, which, would be veins of Mithril in deep vaults, that provide a source of wealth to a Guild, Community or Country.....could be cities, forests, any landmark. In terms of the "geography series" - on the home thread (the one you cut already) - that's where the ideas get made. Then, they get put "into the world" either - on a new thread - or on the Master Thread. Their, they are vied for and competed for, with either battles, negotiations/diplomacy or force - as is your PC or Foundation's wOnt. About Dice: for those who prefer Organic Dice Rolling - we do have the on-line dice roller - where - scores are visible to all. It prevents cheating. .....6.....5......4......3...... This weekend - you will receive a bunch of stats/templates and output here, that maps our game-discussion into numbers. Some of those numbers and templates will need to be stored, probably in your Sig, although I don't really care where you store them. The rest, probably at the Home Foundation. I will check here regularly. Do you have any FINAL QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS? stav |
| Gellion10-22-04, 09:50 PM | I suppose I will, but remember that I myself will not actively be participating in the Interfoundation wars. :) Sil: Not to impose on you or anything, but it would be cool if you were on a lot more often. I like reading your posts. :) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-22-04, 10:12 PM | *sees first part of Gellion's post* the crowd roars - as 10,000 Elves, Half-Elves and Allied Forces release a chorus of cheers into the night skies. The Elven Mages hum in low, melodic tones - shaping the very Weave into magical power and they propel a burst of mithril-blue fires into the skies, as a giant canopy of stars explodes into your senses......and Tel'Quessir sing.... To the second bit :bow: It's my job to bring some colour, kindness, and sound (ethical) guidance to this gig. It's been a real pleasure. You guyz are fantastic too you know. It wouldn't be possible without your contributions.... stav |
| turalisj10-22-04, 10:16 PM | hey sil, would you like a job as a waitress at the blue lizard in? we are kinda short handed. |
| Gellion10-22-04, 10:17 PM | *sees first part of Gellion's post* the crowd roars - as 10,000 Elves, Half-Elves and Allied Forces release a chorus of cheers into the night skies. The Elven Mages hum in low, melodic tones - shaping the very Weave into magical power and they propel a burst of mithril-blue fires into the skies, as a giant canopy of stars explodes into your senses......and Tel'Quessir sing.... To the second bit :bow: It's my job to bring some colour, kindness, and sound (ethical) guidance to this gig. It's been a real pleasure. You guyz are fantastic too you know. It wouldn't be possible without your contributions.... stav Well, that was quite a reaction. :) I hope this whole thing turns out well. :) |
| Sssargoth10-22-04, 10:31 PM | About Dice: for those who prefer Organic Dice Rolling - we do have the on-line dice roller - where - scores are visible to all. It prevents cheating. I'll use the die roller. just point me to it and tell me how it works. :D Some of those numbers and templates will need to be stored, probably in your Sig, although I don't really care where you store them. The rest, probably at the Home Foundation. I'll keep mine in my home foundation so as not to clutter te rest of the message boards. ;) One question tho. what if your race and age catergorie, before levels, puts you at 20th level? thats my predicament. damn +7 LA for 20 year old red dragons.... :mad: lower powered avatar would work, but what race...... |
| turalisj10-22-04, 10:37 PM | could be an elf! they get invunerable to sleep. :cool: |
| Sssargoth10-22-04, 10:57 PM | could be an elf! they get invunerable to sleep. :cool: stupid stinksie elfsies. thems worse than stinksie hobitses[/Gollum impersination] I dont play elves. It has something to do with a -2 CON that I dont like. maby Half-Giant will work. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-22-04, 11:33 PM | hey sil, would you like a job as a waitress at the blue lizard in? we are kinda short handed. You bet. Give me a short while and I'll be sure to assist. @Sssargoth You can break the rules any way you like about age categories. It's not the case that some young people don't excel in a particular area in the same way as everyone. Similarly, some old people find their powers later in life. OK - for the on-line dice roller. Make sure you have a number in every field. So, if it's blank, put in a "0". Once you've rolled, you can post the URL's to the boards. It's pretty intuitive, but if that doesn't help, perhaps an MSN thing or something to talk you through it..... @Sssargoth+Turalisj :rofl: ELVES RULE THE UNIVERSE - erm, I mean HALF-ELVES RULE THE UNIVERSE Sil-Marsha: *pouts* *swooshes hair* Jan-Marien1: rrrreeeeahhhh |
| turalisj10-22-04, 11:51 PM | half elves are the combination of two very powerful races- the elves and the humans. although i wonder what the stats would be for a half elf/orc...... |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-22-04, 11:54 PM | half elves are the combination of two very powerful races- the elves and the humans. although i wonder what the stats would be for a half elf/orc...... I'm sure Orcy would be horrified at the thought. Some say the Orcs are broken or ruined Elves. Perhaps we should look at this at the Half-Elven Foundation.... |
| Sssargoth10-23-04, 12:19 AM | It's official. EVERY DICEBOT HATES ME!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: Just to prove it, click here (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Sssargoth#130921 ) nothing above a 13. Im using 4d6 drop lowest die.......... |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-23-04, 12:25 AM | It's official. EVERY DICEBOT HATES ME!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: :twitch: Just to prove it, click here (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/searchroll.asp?username=Sssargoth#130921 ) nothing above a 13. Im using 4d6 drop lowest die.......... :rofl: They're actually good rolls. But - I'll give you one substitution roll. Or - reroll from scratch. I forgot to say, my rules for dice rolling are that a PC must have two 15's or above, to qualify. ...stav |
| Sssargoth10-23-04, 12:38 AM | the rolls labeled "take three" Im going to use, just so everyone knows. The same link as before takes you to all my dice rolls......where am I going to put a 7? *grumbles*dicebots hate me, all dicebots hate me...... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: |
| Tenzhi10-23-04, 01:07 AM | I reiterate that it's impossible to have a fair competition if people are rolling up scores. With point buy everyone starts off on relatively equal footing. If you want an "organic" array of ability scores, simply don't set them all at typical tiers with point buy. The only real reason to roll up scores is to have a chance at having higher/lower abilities in total than someone else. |
| Sssargoth10-23-04, 01:17 AM | Unfortunately for me, I have yet to have a good experience with point buy, Tenzhi. In all my attempts at using it, about 40, I have yet to have a good experience. To that I say, To each his own. ;) |
| Tenzhi10-23-04, 01:37 AM | You haven't had a good experience why? The only reason I can see is that you weren't able to have high enough scores in total to suit your taste as otherwise any scores you generate by rolls can be generated with point buy just as well. Given that, if you generate scores by rolling that exceed the point buy limit that ends up being set I would have to deem it cheating which is automatic grounds for DQ - such is the only way to make it fair. |
| Sssargoth10-23-04, 01:52 AM | Partly bad GMing and partly because I dont like having a negative ability mod, which means nothing below a 10 and nothing higher than a 15. I have gotten rolled stats that were worse than that. Neither system is better, really. Its just that Im more comfortable with dice, I guess. :( I just had an idea. what if we all used the same stat rolls? The judges could roll up a couple of sets of stats, and everybody participating uses the best set. It keeps everything fair, I think. |
| Tenzhi10-23-04, 01:58 AM | I just had an idea. what if we all used the same stat rolls? This goes along with my second suggestion to use one of the default arrays in the DMG/MM. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-23-04, 02:02 AM | Not necessarily Tenz - Rolls maketh not the Character. It's in the way the PC is used. Players may access Organic methods - at their discretion. Regards stav |
| Tenzhi10-23-04, 02:58 AM | Not necessarily Tenz - Rolls maketh not the Character. It's in the way the PC is used. In a standard game I would agree. However, this is a competition, and as such everyone should start on equal terms for the sake of fairness. High ideals of creativity and such are all fine and dandy for standard roleplaying, but once you make a competition of it certain rules and limitations must be observed else the competition is a bust from the get-go. Which is not to say that creativity and such as to be thrown out the window - you just have to put blinders on your inner madman to keep him on track. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-23-04, 03:32 AM | Thanx Tenzh. But, it just doesn't matter. The difference in three ability points for a small matter, is of no consequence. It's an extra +1 to +2, for an equal risk of the same amount of minuses. The difference in ability scores, creates less error than judges' subjective errors. That is - the error band in scoring outcomes, is by far, outstripped in other areas of the game. However, your points are well noted Tenzh. But, I don't think anyone's going to begrudge Sssargoth, in any case. He's been a valuable contributor and runs a fantastic foundation. regards stav |
| Tenzhi10-23-04, 03:46 AM | An extra +1 or +2 can mean the difference between success and failure, and the chance for lower minuses is nearly non-existant in a 4d6-L rolling system (and in practice isn't necessarily true anyway, being merely a "chance"). And while I'm fond of the Dragon Foundation and have nothing at all against Sssargoth, if I detected a hint of OOC cheating (IC cheating being an entirely different matter ;) ) from anyone - which is what gaining advantage by rolling would amount to - I would have to either disqualify them or judge them accordingly in all endeavors in this competition. As a fair judge I could do no less. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-23-04, 06:06 AM | An extra +1 or +2 can mean the difference between success and failure, and the chance for lower minuses is nearly non-existant in a 4d6-L rolling system (and in practice isn't necessarily true anyway, being merely a "chance"). yes - but the range of advantage (offset against risk of -3 for Organic Rolling ;) ) is within the error band of judging. And there are many other sources of random errors that will cause spikes in proabilities in our game model. The Judges have a special role in watching out for these - and to act accordingly when juding, by taking them into consideration. So, in the case of Sssargoth's (possible) Ability Score benefits, in the event of a tie, Judges might lean in favour of one or other party, by taking into consideration LA, ECL, unforseen benefits of special new classes, or feat combinations that break rules. So - I want us to encourage a little clemency, for good postes, such as Sssargoth, who never cause a boo of trouble in any of their posts. :) And while I'm fond of the Dragon Foundation and have nothing at all against Sssargoth, if I detected a hint of OOC cheating (IC cheating being an entirely different matter ;) ) from anyone - which is what gaining advantage by rolling would amount to - I would have to either disqualify them or judge them accordingly in all endeavors in this competition. As a fair judge I could do no less. We would ask no less of you Elf-Bane. That's why you got the gig. I cannot think of anyone who would better be able to weight the advantages and disadvantages of judging, and take into consideration various distortions in fairness by way of intricate unforseen nuances. Bottom line - strict boundaries for high-stakes decisions - flexible, but fair boundaries for low-stakes outcomes Sssargoth - let's see the final ability scores, via Organic Rolling, and then let's see if it falls within the parameters of 32 Buy. Stav |
| Sssargoth10-23-04, 12:35 PM | Sssargoth - let's see the final ability scores, via Organic Rolling, and then let's see if it falls within the parameters of 32 Buy. I will put them in this format: Base rolls+Racial mods+HD mods=total. Granted Im using the 3e red dragon for the ability mods, and HD. A 20 year old red has 14 HD. -----Base--Racial--HD--Total STR:...7...+...14...+..0..=..21 DEX:..15...+...0...+..1..=..16 CON:..12...+...6...+..0..=..18 INT:...16...+...2...+..2..=..20 WIS:..10...+...2...+..0..=..12 CHA:..12...+...2...+..0..=..14 |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-23-04, 10:20 PM | I'm in agreement with Tenzhi on this one folks, he's right the only fair fight is a fair fight. Plain and simple. Besides dont we want everyone to have as much customization as they wan't? I mean sure its not realistic as rolling but it makes for a much better gaming experiance and I don't see how anything could go wrong with it. I can forsee many problems using the rolling system. First off its not that easy to check to make sure the honest stay honest and the dishonest dont cheat. Second off whats stopping people from just putting things where they want? If I was a player I can honestly tell you if told to roll dice I promis you I would justify that little cheating and build my characters as perfectly as possible knowing what I could get with dice so no one knows the difference. Just my opinion, -Frosty |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-23-04, 11:03 PM | Thanx Frosty - but respectfully - the view needs to be widened beyond ability points. The problem is broader and simple to solve. So - keeping it simple, the solution is with an ECL to accommodate as follows: 1. The ECL goes on your Character Sheet. 2. But, the ECL takes into account, not just ability scores, but 3. Racial benefits, special immunities, spell-like abilities, bonus feats, skills and anything else. 4. Non-standard powers, PrC's Classes and so on that need game-balancing. @All+myself Beyond this point - when we have a home brew, we roll ability scores and some of our fellows have strengths that we don't have. There's an important lesson in that for us, which is about having fun with our fellows, irrespective of how "smart" or "strong" or "wise" they are. Our game isn't for money, it's for fun. ...She laughs merrily, warmly and without malice or sarcasm. She says "who, even amongst the wise, knows how to rank the one strength or the other as more 'special' than the other. For the Wizards with weak arms, knows the might of The Weave, and has mastery over the very laws of magic. Yet, she may be felled by one blow of the sword, when cunningly delivered. So is all of life just so. That which one has another lacks. My joy is not in my own strength, but in watching others take joy from their own strengths. Let's move on now stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-23-04, 11:26 PM | The next series of posts - are the stats, URLs and final materials required before beginning. ....2..... |
| Tenzhi10-24-04, 12:58 AM | I will put them in this format: Base rolls+Racial mods+HD mods=total. Granted Im using the 3e red dragon for the ability mods, and HD. A 20 year old red has 14 HD. Here may lie another issue if we're going with a level 15 baseline for everyone, as the red dragon's LA will certainly push it above the 15th level mark. This is one of the reasons I think we should have different tiers of competition - similar to weight classes in traditional bouts. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 01:16 AM | Here may lie another issue if we're going with a level 15 baseline for everyone, as the red dragon's LA will certainly push it above the 15th level mark. This is one of the reasons I think we should have different tiers of competition - similar to weight classes in traditional bouts. It's a good suggestion. We'd only need this model in the Player-to-Player combat category, not the "All-in" model (i.e. whole foundations and NPC threads. I.e. the "duel" concept. I'd like to put out the idea of assigning a "risk" category to a competition. (Like Encounter Levels). The idea being that when a player wishes to be a brave-hearted or foolish soul, that she may enter into a competition where she is outstripped. In such a case, if she wins, her point bonus is enhanced. Composition of Judging Panel - It is to have two judges at this stage: Tenzhi and Frostbite. - In the event the judges are divided in view, the casting vote goes to a GM. - Since it is a dubious practice for a GM involved in the particular competition to self-judge, we need another GM. Orcy and Finwe are just not here often enough. So, I have contacted doxxie. We can assign another GM. Now, I'd like Anglar to do it - but I haven't heard from him last few days. His work-email has ceased working, which makes me a bit concerned. Alternatively, I'm open to ideas, provided it's not a free-for-all. Keep it civil. Ethos of Judging Panel I'll post this on the Judging Panel thread too. But 1. Egalitarian standards (NOT Utilitarian ones - i.e. to encourage as much diversity in game composition as possible, without undue recourse to sacrifice of individuality). There are limits to this, however, see 2. 2. Impartiality and fairness to the max. Where individuals seek special abilities for their purpose, an ECL penalty will be applied. 3. Judges' decisions STAND. Anyone who goes rogue, will have first my ire to face, and if that doesn't work - there's WizO's to fix it. 4. In the event of concerns about the fairness of a decision - you may dissent in a civilised fashion on the Judges' thread, BUT 5. no-one is to force an outcome. 6. However, you may use the tools of reason, to clarify a concern that you may have. 7. Judges are not a law unto themselves - their jurisdiction is specific, that being, the Deciders of Battles, Conflicts, and rewards Combat Points for game-development products. And as a preamble - the overall ethos of Judging - is one of reasoned, balanced judgement - enacted (NOT ENFORCED) in the Spirit of Goodwill stav IS THIS CLEAR |
| necrodude1610-24-04, 04:20 AM | Orcy and Finwe are just not here often enough. So, I have contacted doxxie. We can assign another GM. :mymy: :twitch: Oh man how much i would love that job. pls pls pls.:bow::bow::bow: Anyway i would like to judge if possible. I would also like to apply for gm position So I wanna Gm....i mean i wanna Judge :D Oh yes that is Clear |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 05:22 AM | OK - now - reader - Please let's keep the politics of envy out of this one. In case you don't know what I mean by that - I need you to find your mostest bestest most open-hearted generosity in your positioning. I need you to accept the outcome of the appointment, once it's final - please let's not get petty about it. Anglar - who missed out on the original nomination - six months ago, by way of an accident. Then - iff ('iff' means If and ONLY If) he declines - THEN we'll look at other options. Okay :) Necro - your enthusiasm is really warming and you're a fantastic poster. You will be rewarded here for that enthusiasm. Exactly when is the only question. If anyone else wants to be a judge (was that an offer Necro) put your hand up. While the GM gig is 'bounded' we have more freedom for Judges. *But* NECRO - if you are a Judge - you will not be able to judge your own works - only the works of others. In this way, we protect the system from Bias. POSTERS - Speak now or FORRREEEVVVEEER hold your peace! warm regards stav |
| necrodude1610-24-04, 05:35 AM | Necro - your enthusiasm is really warming and you're a fantastic poster. You will be rewarded here for that enthusiasm. Exactly when is the only question. ........ :mymy: :mymy: :mymy: :mymy: If anyone else wants to be a judge (was that an offer Necro)yes put your hand up. While the GM gig is 'bounded' we have more freedom for Judges. *But* NECRO - if you are a Judge - you will not be able to judge your own works - only the works of others. In this way, we protect the system from Bias. i know that Ok thanks |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 05:45 AM | Ok thanks Anytime Necro - :cloud9: I promise you and any constructive poster - that we will creation positions of responsibility like judging, or GMing or otherwise - to let you have a chance to grow. Necro - do you want to be a Judge? stav |
| Tenzhi10-24-04, 05:48 AM | Necro - do you want to be a Judge? Check the blue text in the quote block portion of his post - I believe he said yes already, though he hid it well. ;) |
| necrodude1610-24-04, 05:49 AM | Yes i would |
| necrodude1610-24-04, 05:55 AM | also check my posts on the judge thread :D :D |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 05:59 AM | Necro You're IN *hands Necro Judges Staff* - which is a Highly polished Oaken staff, heavily inscribed with protective Magical Runes. They are iridescent with Mithril, and each end of the Judges' staffs is metal-shod, with a silver-blue metal, known as Silver-Starfire Metal. The staff is highly magical and it protects Judges from wards of Evil and assaults of hate. It is in fact, also a Protection from Chaos - recognising that Order is the Highest Charter of the Judging Panel. Silmarien looks at you as you read this - and can sense your presence. She strikes the heel of the Runestaff on the ground and invokes the Pereldar Starfire. "I ready our Power for the Opening Ceremony. Because" she is smiling "it is right to Celebrate our achievements here and this we will do with the Highest, Hallowed Sacred spell. I will not fail you" she says, as her eyes moisten "Our lands are Sacred - and our Halls vast. We reside in an infinite Plane and you" she says with an intense focus "will help define the World with your very Action. PRAISE Rh'iel!" she sings "Praise Her - the Mother of the Pereldar - and Praise to all your most loved things. For these make our World beautiful, no matter what manner of being you are" |
| necrodude1610-24-04, 06:12 AM | Yay. Grabing a hold of the magical and wonderful staff he raises it high above his head " I swear to be just and even-handed and use my powers only for the good of the people." Feeling the rush of power within him he lowers the staff and bows before Silmarien. He closes his eyes and smiles. Signed, Necro Upholder of law and warden for good. |
| Tenzhi10-24-04, 06:20 AM | You'll have to forgive Sil, she's half-melodramatic. Those big pointy ears act as hyper-emotional antennae - when they start twitchin' that means something is about to burst out. ;) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 07:04 AM | @Necro "Lawful and Good" *only* as a Judge. As a Gamer - you can be as Necromantic as you wish - whether that be for good or evil (small "g" small "e"). Sil bows before the three Judges - whose Power is a paradox. For she recognises that they, themselves are Bound by their Own Judgement. In this way the Oath of Judgement Sustains the Judges' Staff and it is only Active when the Oath is Sustained that the Staffs are effective. to the last Tenz post and, erm, the Half-thingy whatsit. :rofl: + HALF ELVES RULE THE UNIVERSE ;) + *cracks* Sil-Marsha: *pouts* *swooshes hair* [and she adds, deludedly] "Oh Tenzhi....I've only got five minutes til Viggo picks me up for the Prom" ;) .....1..... |
| necrodude1610-24-04, 07:09 AM | The count-down is nearly over. At close of shop, this weekend, you'll find the final statistics, templates and game-guidelines for the venture. We'll have a PC thread, a Sovereign Thread, a Pantheon Thread, the Meta-Games thread, a Judging Panel thread, and a Geography Series of threads (that are the world's landmarks and for the World's NPC cities, NPC cultures and NPC communities). Those NPC resources and communities will grant you immeasurable influence over the World, to challenge even the High King's might. Foundations start with zero wealth, but you have individual gold as per DM's guide/PHB guidelines You can use a Point Buy system (exactly how many to be revealed) to create your PC. Or you can use the on-line dice roller if you prefer an organic method. There will be five or so URL's to sign up to, so that you can, quickly, and at a glance, keep up with who's in charge of the World, and what the powers are doing. |
| Bait the Bard10-24-04, 07:25 AM | Sil, as I've said in the ohter thread, I'm probably a bit late for this, but would it be alright if my Lords of Darkness Foundtaion came and partayed in here? :D And, if you really want/need anohter judge, I'm happy to oblige :devil: Shall I post my credits.. Naa, just phone up Ava, I've done everything he has ;) - the annoying bard |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 07:52 AM | ...and The Tale of the Years thread (which is the diary, whose pace is at the GM's Discretion). By "Discretion" what I mean is that GM's must be free to keep SURPRISES (good ones) secret and they may use their own judgment to determine GM things, such as The Tale of the Years). BAIT! You would be most welcome to introduce the Lords of Darkness person/place or otherwise :) And - if you wish to be a Judge ....Silmarien bows low. "In you hands, we are Safe and in the Public Trust - you have well earned the Oath of Judgment. Therefore - a staff of Silverstar-fire Metal for you also - that contains within it, the Power of Stardust - which is that Essence that is in all things. For we are all made of Stardust and from Suns and all throughout the Cosmos, this force exists. This, the Pereldar know well, for our Lore is distinct, and our magic conforms to distinct Lore. The Pereldar Starfire is our discovery and echos our very being. She who has both Elf Blood and the Blood of a second - knows this in their very bones." |
| BronzeBeard10-24-04, 07:05 PM | K friends - I'm back. My comp was at repair for.. some... reason... Anyway, Tenzhi (and whoever was the other guy) was right. the system to determine points must be fair and give everyone a fair start. that means - must be equal. you can only do so by point bye method. the reasons for this opinion are well cleared above but i'll repeat them nevertheless - 1. you can cheat during "original dice rolling" (YES! even in an online dice roller) 2. we need equal ground for all. Second, I disapprove the DnD rules for this type of game since (as I said before:) by the time the 3rd turn will pass we'll all be :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead: :censored: from the amount of states and etc. The thing of having Judges AND GM's are not yet understood to me. What's the difference? can you please tell me? I like very much flavor speech and the like but my personnal opinion says that we'd better have solid rules - since, how did the wise man said it?: In a standard game I would agree. However, this is a competition, and as such everyone should start on equal terms for the sake of fairness. High ideals of creativity and such are all fine and dandy for standard roleplaying, but once you make a competition of it certain rules and limitations must be observed else the competition is a bust from the get-go. Which is not to say that creativity and such as to be thrown out the window - you just have to put blinders on your inner madman to keep him on track.. Finally - I run the "blue lizard" inn. So consult me, and me only (or more correct - that mad dwarf at the bar), to job. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 07:24 PM | OK - quick post before I'm off to work. I'll be off-line for about an hour, then, I'll check once an hour, during the lead-in time (besides, the weekend's nearly over and we got product to post) ;) First of BB - the Rules Post is fantastic. I'm very impressed with the layout, and am very happy about it. On the point method - ability score nonsense. This is my *final* word. We will allow Organic methods with an ECL Model. If anyone doesn't know what an ECL is, please read your Players Handbook NOW. Please try to look past Sssargoth's strength score and let's be mature about it. He will be penalised for the purchase of that template with an ECL, and in practical terms that means two things: 1. Sssargoth will get fewer Experience Points in any encounter, because of the ECL. The Characters (or monsters) he faces he may be initially more able to defeat. But, other characters will catch up fast. Because they will get a bigger rewards for NOT having an ECL. 2. You can add special abilities/some spelllike abilities IF YOU TAKE AN ECL PENALTY YOURSELF. If we don't do this, we will be populated by less interesting characters in our world. The Organic method poses no great risk to equity, in an ECL model. To stop cheating - I've had a think The Kruscheko Dice Roller stores a Database Number and Identity in it. Those figures allow FULL transparency and let us see everything anyone has rolled. One can't cheat with it. If all that doesn't work - try saying to yourself "who cares" a little bit more. regards stav |
| necrodude1610-24-04, 07:33 PM | The Kruscheko Dice Roller stores a Database Number and Identity in it. Those figures allow FULL transparency and let us see everything anyone has rolled. If you use that method use your boards name to prevent you rolling 50 times until you get all high scores.... |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 08:15 PM | I do have one more word on the matter. We will discuss it futher on the PC Posting Thread It's an incomplete discussion, until we see everyone's character sheets. Only then, will we be able to make suggestions to de-munchkinise, or to assign an ECL. I'll be back with a definition about what an ECL actually is. regards stav Thank you. The first glance at Sssargoth's Character sheet was a surprise to me, in that some of the ability mod adjustments are erm, substantial. HOWEVER No-one would be able to play a Drow in D&D without ECL's and one of the reasons we made up ECL was *so that we could* play Drow in Core Rules. In AD&D (Advanced Dungeons and Dragons for the newer folk) did not allow us to play any monsters or Drow or lots of other :cool: things. Core Rules is more flexible. stav |
| BronzeBeard10-24-04, 08:33 PM | k, so what am i doing now? Where 2 post the character of mine and how come you seen sssargoth's char'? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 08:46 PM | At close of shop, this weekend, you'll find the final statistics, templates and game-guidelines for the venture. We'll have a PC thread, a Sovereign Thread, a Pantheon Thread, the Meta-Games thread, a Judging Panel thread, and a Geography Series of threads (that are the world's landmarks and for the World's NPC cities, NPC cultures and NPC communities) and a Tale of the Years thread. Those NPC resources and communities will grant you immeasurable influence over the World, to challenge even the High King's might. Foundations start with zero wealth, but you have individual gold as per DM's guide/PHB guidelines You can use a Point Buy system (exactly how many to be revealed) to create your PC. Or you can use the on-line dice roller if you prefer an organic method. There will be five or so URL's to sign up to, so that you can, quickly, and at a glance, keep up with who's in charge of the World, and what the powers are doing. If there are any volunteers for any of the threads noted above (except Gellion gets first dibs at Geography series). Let us know. If not - I'll host them. Also The Guild of Law, Good, Chaos and Evil - has a very central role IG (In Game). You will all need to sign up to thasis's Alignment Threads as well |
| Floshin Feyri10-24-04, 08:48 PM | Quick question, when will this warring begin, I personally cannot wait to unleash my dark fury? By the way I think that this is the best idea I have ever heard of, I hope that it really turns into something good. -Many grins and cackles The Being of Pure Chaos |
| BronzeBeard10-24-04, 08:49 PM | um... point buy system, how much? i'll set it to 32 or something. OK? |
| necrodude1610-24-04, 09:05 PM | We'll have a PC thread, a Sovereign Thread, a Pantheon Thread, the Meta-Games thread, a Judging Panel thread, and a Geography Series of threads Would it be possible for me to control the pantheon thread. what would that enatil?? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 09:08 PM | um... point buy system, how much? i'll set it to 32 or something. OK? :cool: If the chasm between Sssargoth's (CORE Ability Points - not modified ones) is large, with 32 buy - we'll have a second look..... stav |
| Dyne10-24-04, 09:09 PM | WAIT!!! I still don't understand how this will work. Are we going with countries or guilds? Will we have armies or just individual characters? If we're using armies and such, what are the game mechanics? Oh, and about character construction. How much gold do we have? I don't have my DMG with me at the moment, but I can create a character. I just don't know how much gold I have. Or how many points for the point buy. |
| BronzeBeard10-24-04, 09:09 PM | What? what does that mean? ah... nevermind. I'm of to bed. after I finish listen to this daft punk song sure they good. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 09:10 PM | Would it be possible for me to control the pantheon thread. what would that enatil?? Yes it would. It requires managing the Opening Post - and staying tuned. Remember not to overburden yourself by overloading tasks. :) The Opening Post sets the tone for the thread, and the rules of the Pantheon. It will have the Divine Ranks concept in it, and while anyone can post on the thread, the ACTIVE Pantheon Members will have actual Templates posted on the Pantheon Thread. When a PC gets Divine Ranks - she is then added to the Pantheon thread as a Template!!! stav |
| BronzeBeard10-24-04, 09:12 PM | :zzz: |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-24-04, 09:13 PM | WAIT!!! I still don't understand how this will work. Are we going with countries or guilds? Will we have armies or just individual characters? If we're using armies and such, what are the game mechanics? Oh, and about character construction. How much gold do we have? I don't have my DMG with me at the moment, but I can create a character. I just don't know how much gold I have. Or how many points for the point buy. Hi Dyne, We have 1. The PC Thread (where you have an individual PC that you use here). 2. We have Guilds/Foundations (you can define a PC Nation if you wish - but it starts with zero everything) 3. NPC Communities, Cultures, Landmarks, Resources, and Nations (who can get taken over by a Guild and their resources Monopolised). Three tiers. We need the NPC communities to make sure there's trading routes and so on. Like any D&D Campaign, really. stav |
| Tenzhi10-25-04, 12:38 AM | If the chasm between Sssargoth's (CORE Ability Points - not modified ones) is large, with 32 buy - we'll have a second look. If he stays with those he's already listed, that's just under a 28-point buy total. Given that, I might say he gets a -1 LA for it, though with the LA from being a dragon that's still gonna leave him well over 15. |
| Sssargoth10-25-04, 12:59 AM | If he stays with those he's already listed, that's just under a 28-point buy total. I'm keeping those stats, unless y'all don't want me to. I'm not sure why you wouldnt want me to keep them, to be honest. Given that, I might say he gets a -1 LA for it, though with the LA from being a dragon that's still gonna leave him well over 15. I just checked in the Draconomicon and a 14 HD red dragon has a +6 LA. With what your sugesting, I would only have a +5, which puts me at an ECL 19 instead of 20, before class levels. I assume I would have to add those as I level up, instead at official creation. |
| Tenzhi10-25-04, 01:00 AM | Second, I disapprove the DnD rules for this type of game since (as I said before:) by the time the 3rd turn will pass we'll all be :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead: :censored: :banghead: :censored: from the amount of states and etc. The thing that must be kept in mind is that these are (for the largest part) D&D based guilds crafting D&D rules based items, races, spells, PrCs, etc. Divesting them from their set of rules of origin and integrating them into another unknown set would be as complex and more time-consuming than merely following the core rules to the letter. Not that I suggest the latter, either, as we're not going to be very capable of following the tactical combat rules as written at the least. I think it will be best if we largely stick with the rules, but lighten up the combat rules so that they mesh better with the posting medium. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-25-04, 01:10 AM | If he stays with those he's already listed, that's just under a 28-point buy total. Given that, I might say he gets a -1 LA for it, though with the LA from being a dragon that's still gonna leave him well over 15. Thanx Tenzh all that fuss - for UNDER 32 outcome! ECL (or LA if you prefer) - of +15! Sssargoth - that will mean that any battles you fight in, in the early stages, will earn you less XP than you fellows. People will be able to catch you up in this way - Are you happy with this. |
| Sssargoth10-25-04, 01:16 AM | all that fuss - for UNDER 32 outcome! ECL (or LA if you prefer) - of +15! Can you still believe they didn't want me to go organic with my stats? Especially with a dicebot...dicebots evil, dicebot cursed :twitch: :twitch: Sssargoth - that will mean that any battles you fight in, in the early stages, will earn you less XP than you fellows. People will be able to catch you up in this way - Are you happy with this. Thats fine, and yes I am. :D :mage: :mage: :mage: :mage: |
| Tenzhi10-25-04, 01:42 AM | ECL (or LA if you prefer) - of +15! Minor correction here just to avoid confusion. It's not that I prefer LA (Level Adjustment), it's just that that was the correct term for the minus (and for similar plusses). ECL (Equivalent Character Level) is what you end up with after you add together all of the LAs, racial/monster HD, and class levels. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-25-04, 01:48 AM | Quick question, when will this warring begin, I personally cannot wait to unleash my dark fury? By the way I think that this is the best idea I have ever heard of, I hope that it really turns into something good. -Many grins and cackles The Being of Pure Chaos We missed this post!!! Ain't it :cool: to see it!! ......in about ......erm.......not so many hours now ;) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-25-04, 03:06 AM | ANY TAKERS FOR: 1. The Sovereign Thread 2. Any Geography Threads 3. Any NPC Community/Country Threads And Necro - are you taking the PANTHEON Thread I'll wait a few more hours - and then will post these myself :) Then - I'll post ALL THE URLs HERE THAT YOU NEED TO SIGN UP ON |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-25-04, 07:15 AM | I would like to invite our Dwarf Lord to host the Dwarf Kingdom, cited on the Geography thread, And - it's worth a try - (knowing Tenzhi will prolly refuse) - but I think he should host a trans-dimensional thread - with the Geography he cut.... stav still working..... |
| Tenzhi10-25-04, 07:21 AM | And - it's worth a try - (knowing Tenzhi will prolly refuse) - but I think he should host a trans-dimensional thread - with the Geography he cut.... Nah, putting aside the fact that it's far from finished in the first place, I really don't want my personal realm involved in this fuss. However, I am considering making an "Eyes of Enmity" thread that takes a look at any posted realms through hostile eyes. This idea is completely unrelated to the fact that the first three postings are entirely elvish in nature. Honest. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-25-04, 08:25 AM | URL List for Subscriberships These ones everyone needs to sign up to. 1. The Pantheon Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328116) 2. The Sovereign Throne (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328162) 3. The PC Statistics Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328114) 4. IFWG Rules Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=325855) 5. The Judging Panel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320618) 6. The Fantasy Geography Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=323321) 7. The Interfoundation Games Meta Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320616) 8. The Guild of Pure Evil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=240186) 9. The Guild of Pure Good (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=252931) 10. Guild of Neutrality (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=262767) 11. Chaos Foundation (Owner=?) 12. Law Foundation (Owner=?) URL List for NPC Geography Series/Resources NPC Threads, can be captured, and controlled by a Guild or Individual. They're optional. 1. Mines of The Rilla Mountains (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328159) 2. Mythal Skybridge (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328155) 3. Mythal Arnandahar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328154) The Northern Flame (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328152) 4. The City of Pendor (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328160) 5. Dwarf Threads (the one on the Geography thread) |
| thasis10-25-04, 09:51 AM | I have a question. Are there going to be more NPC geography threads as this game progresses. Second, If theres going to be more NPC Geography Threads and we amass a large amount of them mabye so we don't clutter up the guilds boards we could to a online petion (or we could just ask nicly) to see if we could get a Sub-Board for the Guild Wars. |
| BronzeBeard10-25-04, 09:58 AM | thasis's right. two tumbs up. here: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-25-04, 10:47 AM | Like a D&D campaign. Landmarks tend to grow in numbers as a campaign does, I'd have thought. ...for you have only just begun to discover the World. Beyond every horizon, are untold legends and mysteries, and relics from the past. And there are Banes and foul things buried in hidden vaults far below the earth that can Unmake even a god. And likewise, items and relics of enourmous power for good. How you find them" She muses "or they you, depends on your Fate. And who can say how The Tale of the Years will unfold." to Sub-Forums: *whistles* - remember *smiles* - it's all about faith. The Opening Ceremony is ........one.....more.....number.....to.. ...count.....down..... |
| Sssargoth10-25-04, 02:58 PM | URL List for Subscriberships These ones everyone needs to sign up to. 1. The Pantheon Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328116) 2. The Sovereign Throne (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328162) 3. The PC Statistics Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=328114) 4. IFWG Rules Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=325855) 5. The Judging Panel (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320618) 6. The Fantasy Geography Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=323321) 7. The Interfoundation Games Meta Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320616) 8. The Guild of Pure Evil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=240186) 9. The Guild of Pure Good (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=252931) 10. Guild of Neutrality (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=262767) 11. Chaos Foundation (Owner=?) 12. Law Foundation (Owner=?) We have to sign up on all of these? Doesn't that seem a little excessive? |
| Gellion10-25-04, 04:45 PM | Well, I already said I would host the man geography thread. :) |
| king_of_evil00710-25-04, 05:13 PM | WHy do I need to sign up at all of those threads? What if right now, I dont' want to be a sovereign? Or what if I don't care about the Guild of Neutrality? |
| Sssargoth10-25-04, 05:23 PM | WHy do I need to sign up at all of those threads? What if right now, I dont' want to be a sovereign? Or what if I don't care about the Guild of Neutrality? Thank you, atleast somebody agrees with me. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-25-04, 06:21 PM | *looks upstream* We can't do this unless, you sign up to: - One Alignment thread (your PC's Alignment, in fact) - The META GAMES thread, so that we all can communicate to everyone with one post. When someone triggers a rules change, you need to see it. - The PC Stats thread - The Judges Thread - The Geography Thread Without signing onto the above - you'll be like the proverbial blind as a bat. And even in this model, how will you know who's King. Which could leave you at a disadvantage. *Subscribing* doesn't mean you have to post (beyond the initial post) - but I am asking you to follow those threads. That's five threads. Most of you are subscribed to more than that at any one time anyway. It's not like we're asking you to write a thesis. Any more grizzles - or alternatively - make a suggestion, or propose a solution. I'm off to work now - won't be here for day. stav |
| Fuzzy Logic Inc.10-25-04, 08:21 PM | I would like to invite our Dwarf Lord to host the Dwarf Kingdom, cited on the Geography thread... Como... what? Hm. Host a thread. Since it was my idea, I'll cut it. Anyway, do you want a different thread for both Snowspire and The Lost Hold? Or just one that encompasses both of them. Regardless of your answer, it will have to wait until I have returned from my evening class. |
| Tenzhi10-25-04, 08:26 PM | Subscribing is kind of pointless if you check the boards more often than you check your e-mail. I'd suggest just keeping up with the threads as best you can without subscribing. Lord knows that enough spam hits the ol' inbox without soliciting it on your own. |
| necrodude1610-26-04, 02:14 AM | Subscribing is kind of pointless if you check the boards more often than you check your e-mail. I'd suggest just keeping up with the threads as best you can without subscribing. Lord knows that enough spam hits the ol' inbox without soliciting it on your own. you can actually change it when you subscribe so it dosnt send you emails.... :rolleyes: |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-26-04, 08:51 AM | RIGHT *grins* Point 1: Don't blame me if the Sovereign Hosts come after your lands - because you've breached an edict in ignorance. And, I'm going to encourage the Sovereign to act accordingly, if your foundation is considered 'rogue' (small 'r' for rogue here - IG Rogue, c.f. OoG Rogue). Point 2: Remember - an angry sovereign is a punitive sovereign. So - if you've checked the Sovereign thread, you'll see that she or he commands 10,000 troups. If those troups are launched at your foundaiton (IG - In Game) - you can expect In-Game consequences. In Game (IG) it's in your best interestst to either a. Be friendly to your sovereign b. Gang up on the sovereign, by working collaboratively. c. Bash up the sovereign, by securing a NPC Community Thread d. Comply with the sovereign. REMEMBER - The Sovereign CAN TAX. And send around Tax Collectors!!!! The Sovereign can cut the Laws of the Land (ON AN ALIGNMENT THREAD). And may ENFORCE those laws The whole idea is that you can have FUN FUN FUN by commanding the world as you see fit. Point 3. Foundations that don't have gold - can't make much, beyond what you have in personal wealth. That will run out very quickly. If you don't make yourselves rich fast, then some smart Super Power is going to take over your thread (In Game). Remember - it's a GAME and it's FUN. Any trouble - WizO's will be down on us like a ton of bricks - and rightly so. @Fuzzy Logic While we currently don't have interest in the Geography series. That will have to change. Because the first bright poster is going to understand how to amass wealth and power. So - if you want to host the Dwarf threads - I'd love you to do it. Your materials were absoultely fantastic - and you can host those threads any way you like :) @Tenzhi+Necro Up to you GRINS - ANY MORE OBJECTIONS OR QUESTIONS!! stav DOES ANYONE WANT FIRST GO AT THE HIGH KINGSHIP? I don't think I should - I do enough around here - and you guyz need to have a sense of mastery. stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-26-04, 09:26 AM | >>Look Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4696999#post4696999)<< *grins*+ ;) |
| Sssargoth10-26-04, 01:04 PM | DOES ANYONE WANT FIRST GO AT THE HIGH KINGSHIP? I guess I could, if noone objects, that is... |
| Dyne10-26-04, 01:41 PM | Hmmm. A huge dragon as the sovereign. No offense, but I'd rather not. Perhaps we should just let people fight it out, or vote. |
| Sssargoth10-26-04, 01:54 PM | I'm not huge, I'm large. I wont be huge for another century at least. ;) |
| Fuzzy Logic Inc.10-26-04, 02:26 PM | @Fuzzy Logic While we currently don't have interest in the Geography series. That will have to change. Because the first bright poster is going to understand how to amass wealth and power. So - if you want to host the Dwarf threads - I'd love you to do it. Your materials were absoultely fantastic - and you can host those threads any way you like Hm, what to do, what to do. Well, I'll cut a couple threads like the ones you cut for Snowspire and Lost Hold. Though Snowspire theoretically holds no useful resources (theoretically, ;) ), It would provide strategic positioning either to blockade the mines of Lost Hold or to protect them. So I think it deserves its own thread. What other Dwarf threads are proposed? I'd be happy to help this endeavor in any way I can. |
| king_of_evil00710-26-04, 04:06 PM | Honestly, I think this is too big. Threads are appearing left & right, the actual Guilds & Foundations are being shoved to 2nd page! If only WotC would allocate us our own forum. . . (I know that won't happen and I'm not asking for it, but that would be cool) |
| Demonfey10-26-04, 04:08 PM | Is there any limit to a character's ECL? |
| Tenzhi10-26-04, 04:14 PM | you can actually change it when you subscribe so it dosnt send you emails.... :rolleyes: Ah, but then there's really no point in subscribing, as all the threads are easily checked right here without the need for accessing them from your profile. Honestly, I think this is too big. Threads are appearing left & right, the actual Guilds & Foundations are being shoved to 2nd page! I'm afraid I have to agree. This has gone from a friendly little contest to an event that is completely overwhelming the entire guild forum. This is no longer a contest, you're trying to birth an entire world within the forum and there isn't enough room for it. |
| Demonfey10-26-04, 04:44 PM | How's about we start it here, get things set up and whatnot, and then expand to a new area? |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-26-04, 04:46 PM | As I said I think in the Judges thread - I'd be willing as a neutral judge to take up "The Sovereign Throne" just so everyone gets an equal headstart. Putting a baised player in power might cause problems in the future. Lets say I wasn't a judge but still became this High King. I would probably create a Magic Tax requiring your guild to produce a certain number of magic items a week or suffer a heavy tax. Since the CoA is the only Foundation which would beable to take that burdon its obviously making CoA a lot stronger ect ect. Or if not me I would at least like to see a judge such as Tenzhi. Take it or leave it -Frosty |
| Sssargoth10-26-04, 05:24 PM | Is there any limit to a character's ECL? Officially, its 15, unless you dont mind gaining experience at a slower pace than other people, until they catch up with you, which is what I'm doing. The sacrifices I make to be the red dragon that I am. :D |
| Demonfey10-26-04, 05:41 PM | :mage: Not a problem. :mage: :D I like using smilies in ways that don't work together. |
| Dyne10-26-04, 06:40 PM | Demonfey, there's not officially a max ECL, but our characters aren't supposed to start off with more than 15 character levels. If LA due to race or special abilities boosts your level beyond 15, it's acceptable. But, be reasonable. I'm not huge, I'm large. I wont be huge for another century at least. ;) I can just picture a chaotic evil red dragon that is 20 feet tall flying around the kingdom, terrorizing the populace, and taking everyone's gold. I'd like it very much if a judge started off as the sovereign. Anyone else who wanted to spot would have to overthrow him. I still have a question about mass warfare. How will that work? Sil said the king had an army of 10,000 soldiers (even though the sovereign thread says 5,000), but how will we play that out? Will we use the regular D&D rules for battles with thousands of men, or is there a different system? Where are all these soldiers? Scattered throughout the world? All at the palace? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-26-04, 06:59 PM | That's better everyone. ECL limit - yes. We can't have everyone too overdone. KoE + Tenzhi - relax. It's really not that hard, and not that big. It's not as hard as D&D. You just need to adjust. To keep your sense of personal control, focus your mentation (thinking) on one task and item at a time and build the guild (pardon pun) from their. Really, fellas, though, prior to the venture we had a completely pluralistic structure with over 100 distinct groups and guilds. The only difference between then and now, is that there is a reason to interact. @Sssargoth *puts hands on hips* You wanna be a sovereign, who doesn't subscribe to the threads, hey? *wry smiles* @ Frosty Hmmm - you would make a very impartial Steward (until we get our first King). I am happy with this idea. You could help encourage everyone to understand, and make it fair and even. And, as people grasp the basics, then, slowly - encourage more and more innovation. Remember - we have a Game Structure to guide, and I will be right beside you - keeping an eye on things. Is everyone happy with Frosty having the Stewardship until we get the First Sovereign? stav |
| Sssargoth10-26-04, 07:22 PM | Demonfey, there's not officially a max ECL, but our characters aren't supposed to start off with more than 15 character levels. If LA due to race or special abilities boosts your level beyond 15, it's acceptable. But, be reasonable. Now I have to have charicter levels? geez, make up your mind. ;) I can just picture a chaotic evil red dragon that is 20 feet tall flying around the kingdom, terrorizing the populace, and taking everyone's gold. I'd do that anyway Anyone else who wanted to spot would have to overthrow him. Don't encourage Tenzhi. Have you seen his sheet yet? Im still wondering how we are supposed to do HP. Do we roll them, or is there another way of doing it that nobody has told me about? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-26-04, 07:35 PM | HP! Good question....... Please post your comments. The Stewardship is still on the table. But - I'm leaning towards Frosty. Sssargoth - to be a contender - you'd need to be a very active participant. And to the other posters - please let me know your thoughts. Some of you want a vote. We have not yet cut a Voting thread, we have the freedom to do that you know. OK - I have to go to work - but I will return with eagerness to see your thoughts. BE CIVIL. warm regards stav Well done everyone - it's taking shape. Soon we'll be fully functional. Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo Silmarien |
| Demonfey10-26-04, 08:23 PM | What if I just leave him for the moment, and then have him participate in the games when there are epic opponents? I think that there might be one coming along soon, because I told a friend who was part of the group that had the posted character in it, and he might post my character's good-aligned nemesis. Basically, it is like having someone waiting to make sure that no one is without a worthy opponent. And he's already posted, and then things get to be a pain in the ass with figuring out what stays and what goes. In the mean time, he'll be a retired mercenary. |
| king_of_evil00710-26-04, 08:26 PM | That's better everyone. ECL limit - yes. We can't have everyone too overdone. KoE + Tenzhi - relax. It's really not that hard, and not that big. It's not as hard as D&D. You just need to adjust. To keep your sense of personal control, focus your mentation (thinking) on one task and item at a time and build the guild (pardon pun) from their. Really, fellas, though, prior to the venture we had a completely pluralistic structure with over 100 distinct groups and guilds. The only difference between then and now, is that there is a reason to interact. My point is that this is just a massive undertaking. When I originally posted my remark, there were like 3 Foundations on the 1st page - the rest were things for this. As I said, it's just getting ridiculously large. It's not so bad now since the guilds have been popping back up on the map, but I mean, this is getting out of proportion. DO we need a Meta-Thread? This is our meta-thread. Sure, it's a "Prep Thread" but that's easily changed. All I'm saying is that I think that there are some unneeded threads, and that it's growing a little big. Baby steps people, baby steps. When I did my HP, I just did average. When calculating the HP for the 10 levels of Bard that I have, I just did 6 (max HP first die) + 3x9 (27) for a grand total of 33. I then added my Con modifier (+1) per level, bumping my HP up to a massive 43. I then added some HP for my other 5 levels, but they weren't in Bard. I'm happy with Frost getting Stewardship. |
| Fuzzy Logic Inc.10-26-04, 09:00 PM | I'm fine with having an impartial Steward for the time being, at least until we all get our grip on how things will work. And, a questions for characters. Are we supposed to present any custom material we will be using? Such as custom races and PrCs, items and artifacts? |
| thasis10-26-04, 09:11 PM | Thasis's Evil Avatar enters the chambers. "I think all of you are foolish to attempt to run for King. There is only one true power and that is me. If you vote for me I won't kill you... right away and I'll make sure no, how should I say... accidents happen to you. I will make choices that will benifit all peoples in the land and will make all who ally with me RICH. Vote for me and you vote for the true power". The Holy Thasis walks in. "Fellow members of the Good Alignment, don't lissen to my brethren. He wants to tempt you into evil. He won't help any of you. If you vote for me I will benifit the land with more temples and food, better security against the evil forces and a army of holy warriors ready to defend the weak and fight along with the strong". Basically what I'm saying is I wanna run for Soverign/ King. My good and evil avatars are both intressted. The neutrul avatar has other motives that are still unkown. Should I have posted this on the Soverign Thread? If I should I can move it their right now. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-26-04, 10:57 PM | A quick lunch-time post. OK - some of the new threads - we will probably re-focus, by giving them a "guild-house" structure. Which will mean that I a. Rename them b. Alter the opening post. For example - the Mythal threads - "Mythal Lore Guild - Arnandahar" and I'll ensure that it can accommodate OoG concepts as well. Can your new threads do the same too please. Let's keep the standards *tight* and in accordance with our Charter. Regards stav |
| necrodude1610-26-04, 11:39 PM | Is everyone happy with Frosty having the Stewardship until we get the First Sovereign? Yep.cos everyone knows i secretly mid control him... :mymy: |
| Tenzhi10-27-04, 12:34 AM | Don't encourage Tenzhi. Have you seen his sheet yet? Incidentally, I did post a disclaimer title with that character sheet post stating that it was an NPC posted for example only. ;) And I haven't even figured out all of his feats and salient divine abilities yet. Really, fellas, though, prior to the venture we had a completely pluralistic structure with over 100 distinct groups and guilds. The only difference between then and now, is that there is a reason to interact. No, the difference is that everything else except the "reason to interact" is being pushed aside, and in a big way. And it's going to be rather complicated to keep up with more than three interacting threads or so. |
| Sssargoth10-27-04, 01:54 AM | Incidentally, I did post a disclaimer title with that character sheet post stating that it was an NPC posted for example only. ;) I noticed. You'r so big, you need your own world to accomidate it, and I think I just found it. ;) http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpegMod/PIA06090_modest.jpg |
| Tenzhi10-27-04, 02:11 AM | I noticed. You'r so big, you need your own world to accomidate it, and I think I just found it. ;) Colossal+ is still smaller than the dragons of 2E I believe - if it were more well-known I may have listed my size according to Dragonmech, which scales up to a much more satisfactory level. |
| Bait the Bard10-27-04, 02:32 AM | So, I'm still a bit confused here.. do we have to roll up characters, or what what? |
| anglar10-27-04, 03:24 AM | So, I'm still a bit confused here.. do we have to roll up characters, or what what? Not 100% certain here, but I think we are going for chracters of no more than 15th level using 32 point buy. LA adjustment is allowed, but I'm not certain if there is any limits. |
| Tenzhi10-27-04, 03:27 AM | Thus far characters with LA are surpassing the 15th level equivalency which Sil seems to think is okay and I disagree as it makes the limit meaningless. |
| anglar10-27-04, 03:31 AM | Thus far characters with LA are surpassing the 15th level equivalency which Sil seems to think is okay and I disagree as it makes the limit meaningless. I side with the Elf-Bane on this one. I think that with LA the character should be no more than 17th overall. Otherwise we'll template upon template tossed onto the characters. Elf-Bane - if you didn't have your committment issues, I'd think you'd make a great GM here. |
| Bait the Bard10-27-04, 03:57 AM | Elf-Bane - if you didn't have your committment issues, I'd think you'd make a great GM here. He's just trying to flirt with you.. ;) But, also quoted for truthery :D |
| Tenzhi10-27-04, 04:13 AM | I side with the Elf-Bane on this one. I think that with LA the character should be no more than 17th overall. Otherwise we'll template upon template tossed onto the characters. Templates won't be required considering the LAs of some of the races coming through. And I don't say this because I have anything against races with high HD and LA. I want most concepts to be viable, but I also want to maintain a semblance of fair and equitable challenge. Elf-Bane - if you didn't have your committment issues, I'd think you'd make a great GM here. High praise indeed (from you too BtB), and if I thought I could devote the sort of attention to this forum that such a title should merit I might readily consider the post; however, I'm a bit senile and my mind and attention wander at times (recall Father William from Lewis Carroll's books here), so I'm certain one of you young bucks (and I use the term facetiously, I think) is more suitable for the jorb (props to Coach Z, yo). |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-27-04, 05:17 AM | No, it's neither one nor the other my friend Elf-Bane. As with all things - it is both. :) A lesson from your book. You are right of course - and so are the 'opposing' team. We need to extract the combo truth from both camps. While it's new, if it needs a "present focus" on three threads at a time - sobeit. With "baby steps" as has been pointed out. Once people get into the swing of it - we will explore new terf. That said - shrewd posters will utilise multiple threads to their Foundation's purpose - as they should - it's a competition after all. As they say "don't put your eggs in one basket" - that is, posters, develop a diverse portfolio of strategies in this game. This game - is very much a game of strategy. The tiered In-Game powers (Divine Ranks, Sovereign Ranks and Player Levels) makes it particularly colourful. 1. OK - first to KoE - yes baby steps are needed at this stage. We don't need all the threads, necessarily, but we will need a Meta-thread. This thread will be finished soon enough, and the Meta-Thread will replace it. If it helps, let's look at scale. 2. About ECLs and LAs - OK - some clearer boundaries would help. let's put a cap on them. I want to see people posting to "how many LAs" and secondly "why" Good to see you all. There is no need to all be agreed. But - we will never achieve 100% concensus, and we will need to move on. But, perhaps not just yet. If you have mature attitudes, you will dissent, express your point of view, explain why, and then accept the ruling. No-one agrees fully with all their DM's decisions, but I enjoy hearing all the different points of view, and I think it's very healthy to discuss. I'm also very proud of you for being so good-spirited about it all. Please keep it up. Warm Regards Stav-Marien |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-27-04, 05:29 AM | The Stewardship: We have three contenders so far: 1. Frostbite Ravenheart 2. Sssargoth 3. thasis I would like to hear from each of you - I want each of you to speak to the other two contenders in front of your community. And to explain why you thing you'd do a *good* job. Would you also share your ideas about how you plan to proceed in the Role - so that we can give you feedback about some game standards - you know, "do's and don'ts" etc. Engage each other - and all of us. :) Regards to you all - and make a suggestion about how to resolve it! Perhaps we could have our firt REAL IG DUEL!!!!! Your Servant Stav |
| Tenzhi10-27-04, 05:44 AM | I think 10+ threads exceeds the definition of "baby steps." In particular, I think various location-oriented threads are pointless. All that was truly necessary as far as location was a meeting ground type thread, a battleground thread, and a challenge thread. We're not running a full-blown IRC roleplaying server here with bots and channels for every conceivable location. If you want to discuss things at the elvish city or the dwarven keep put it in the respective foundation thread rather than pushing said foundation threads off the map with redundant locales. On ECL: We established an ECL 15 limit and that's a good number though it leaves certain concepts out. I think I have more to add on this subject but my brain just fell asleep. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-27-04, 05:56 AM | I think 10+ threads exceeds the definition of "baby steps." In particular, I think various location-oriented threads are pointless. All that was truly necessary as far as location was a meeting ground type thread, a battleground thread, and a challenge thread. We're not running a full-blown IRC roleplaying server here with bots and channels for every conceivable location. If you want to discuss things at the elvish city or the dwarven keep put it in the respective foundation thread rather than pushing said foundation threads off the map with redundant locales. On ECL: We established an ECL 15 limit and that's a good number though it leaves certain concepts out. I think I have more to add on this subject but my brain just fell asleep. Tenzhi - respectfully - the game has those NPC threads because they're about providing raw materials and resources for the PC Foundations. For the readers - Tenzhi and I are old friends now, and we do this with good spirits. While you read, please note that we are having an adult discussion in peaceful terms. Tenz - by your own argument, equity is very important. We can't allow one foundation (e.g. Half-Elven one, or Dwarven one) to command an infinite supply of gold first off. All foundations must have zero combat points and zero gold. Or alternatively, equal amounts of each. In the same way there's pressure to equalize PC's that same argument applies to Foundations. Hence, the need for the NPC series - (just like in D&D - players and thier Guilds need to locate and secure resources). NPC communities provide one real way of challenging the sovereign. NPC threads provide a basis for the competition that is fair. People need to strive to access their gold and resources, and the Underdark thread is 70% of the world's gold. The other 30% is for players to discover. That is - the GM has game secrets like a good GM should. Re: "baby steps" 10 game threads is a lot. The Sovereign thread will or should be very active, it's an engine for the game. Likewise, the "laws" come from the Alignment threads. The Metagame thread is off-screen anyway, and the Tale of the Years is Read-Only. First this topic, before moving onto ECLs. regards stav |
| Dyne10-27-04, 06:15 AM | Here's my 2 cp: I think Frostbite should be the first sovereign because he would most likely be impartial to everyone. I think the location threads are a good idea, but I have yet to see stats for resources and raw materials at the location threads. We can't really escape a fairly large amount of threads for this because, otherwise, everything will get mixed together and confusing. The location threads give more room for the stuff that will happen there (and there will probably be a lot happening there), and they provide vivid detail of the location, which makes the whole thing more interesting. And it would confuse things to have several things going on at once at the different foundations (stuff for the locations, stuff for planning of items and such, and whatever else they discuss there). The locations need their own threads. Players shouldn't be allowed to start a character with more than 15 levels. Also, they shouldn't have a character with an ECL higher than 15. Some characters might be allowed to have ECL higher than 15 ONLY because their Race or whatever automatically puts them over the limit, without class levels. Like Sssargoth, having an ECL 19 or 20 dragon. He doesn't even have levels yet, and it would be impossible for him to play the dragon without putting him over the limit, so that's acceptable. In the same way, I think players should post their characters in the PC thread in a way that shows how their character is built. For example, what their abilities are from point-buy, their racial adjustments, their increases from level, bonuses from magic items, etc. That shows the judges how their abilities added up to what they are, to prevent cheating. I posted my character like, followed by a stat block that shows his stats added together. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-27-04, 06:20 AM | One for Frostbite. I'm leaning that way too. About ECL's - What I don't want, is a world populated by standard things. However, I have a solution. PC's with ECLs - *must* have lower PC levels. Thus, if Sssargoth comes out with an ECL of +10, then he must be a 5th level PC. While I don't really like this model very much, it seems there are few posters who like the idea of having something bigger and scarier than them to face. Disappointing, but I'm happy to go with the revised model. That way, you get the opportunity to have some exceptional strength, say or spell-like abilities, and so on, while keeping the playing field even. Comments... stav |
| necrodude1610-27-04, 06:55 AM | i also vote for frosty. Necro, Of the frostbite political party. :D |
| JackRipper10-27-04, 08:46 AM | Ok, I just read through more then 11 pages of information, no single post excluded, and at times it made me cry, other times I cheered. I cried because I learned about this (IMO) !great! plan to late to discuss along about a lot of what has happened here so far, and I cheered because eventually the best aspects of the entire idea always survived this verbal war. I tell you now sometimes I feared I couldn't keep up my reading speed with the rate you guys post at, but I catched up and am ready to react to all the things I have had to crop up until now... 1. THIS IS A GREAT GAME PLAN!! I've wanted to see such a thing ever since I visit the foundation board (member of dwarven foundation- both the old and new one). This means I'm planning to join this, if I can. 2. If I can join, I'd like to begin the creation of my preferred character Garth the dwarf. In doing so, I still need to now, before I rash into things, the following, and even though some might be discussed sporadically already, never have I found a definitive conclusion: - point-buy amount? 32 seems a common proposition. - Character level max 15? - HP? May I roll the dies on the online roller? Taking the average has been mentioned. - I'm not planning on playing a terrasque or titan, but still there is no decision made concerning LA limits and such. - I also see the rules thread made by BronzeBeard has yet to change its character creation rules from M:TG to D&D (I assume the latter is what we have chosen looking at all the terms used during this discussion etc, but again no definitive conclusion read by me) This concerning character creation. Onto the next, and more current, topics: 3. Choosing the starting sovereign. I'd almost abstain from voting, seeing as I don't know any of them very well yet, but realised this might just give me an advantage at voting rationally: I vote for Frosty, as I have the impression he shall be (I think) most suited for a starting sovereign, giving the players an easy time at the beginning, to get started and acquainted with the game. (Considering a stable, benevolent and peaceful type of government might provide these circumstances best) 4. It is a difficult discussion about the cluttering of the foundations, as both sides have their good points and bad ones. The only ideal solution would be a new board for this game, but since it seems impossible to achieve that, we have to make the best of it. I think the board is indeed cluttering up. When I was trying to understand the rules and trying to find the different threads that were referred to, I had a hard time finding some of them. After a while, I found them, and realised that every single one of them (with the exception of the metagame board, as in my opinion it is not neccessary when we have this board already to discuss such matters) was necessary to complete the whole project, and again, this project is a great plan; a way of improving this place, not threatening its already settled functions. So, in my opinion, the amount of new threads being made here shouldn't dissapear as they are all unmissable (with one already mentioned exception), but instead be ordered better if possible. While I am not aware of what conditions a thread must comply to before being allowed to make sticky, I would suggest if this could be realised (and without to much bureaucracy it can easily be) that all inter-foundation concerned threads are stickied underneath the already stickied threads, creating a line and thus an order between 'the rules of this foundation board as a whole', 'the rules and other threads of the inter-foundation wargames' and 'the foundations'. 5. Lastly (yes finally he said 'lastly' ;)) a question. About the in- and outflow of the game's members. A new foundation wishing to enter the games, is almost automatically doomed to fail, as the foundation of course starts with few members, while the already long-lived foundations have 50 or so members they have gained over the many months. This, in my eyes, is a concern that should be dealt with, in the name of fairness. With the 'outflow of members' I mean: character death, not members stopping. I was wondering what would happen when a character dies, which, as I now look at the current rules and such, could happen quite easily, should he simply quit the game? Is that character forever done with? Or are there any safety nets? So in short; what happens when a character dies? I hope my 2cp have contributed in any way to make this game, or at least this discussion, develop. I hope the games start soon so that I, Garth, will be able to represent, under the High Thane Khazur of the new Dwarven Foundation, dwarfkind and all their ideals. p.s.: Sorry if, during the writing of this post, I said anything stupid, confusing or insulting: it was not ment that way, just ask if it was really to much to bear. :) And also sorry for the length of this post, taking into consideration that maybe other's like me must still read this entire thread.;) -JackRipper (Character: Garth) |
| Tenzhi10-27-04, 08:54 AM | Hence, the need for the NPC series - (just like in D&D - players and thier Guilds need to locate and secure resources). NPC communities provide one real way of challenging the sovereign. NPC threads provide a basis for the competition that is fair. People need to strive to access their gold and resources, and the Underdark thread is 70% of the world's gold. The other 30% is for players to discover. I think the handling of resources could be accomplished well enough within the Foundation threads themselves, but assuming for the sake of argument that "NPC threads" are necessary for such it still follows that you only really need one such thread per interested Foundation. Given that that is so then having, say, three elvish threads of this nature is unnecessary thread bloat. About ECL's - What I don't want, is a world populated by standard things. Equal power does not mean equal concept. And while varied concepts are a must, we must not let them destroy balance. One possible solution is to make the number of characters in a party part of the equation. A character with ECL of 16 would count as two total characters and every +1 above that would add 1 to the virtual number of characters that a single character counted as - so an ECL 20 character would be equivalent to a full party of 6 ECL15 characters. Just a thought. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-27-04, 09:39 AM | I think the handling of resources could be accomplished well enough within the Foundation threads themselves, but assuming for the sake of argument that "NPC threads" are necessary for such it still follows that you only really need one such thread per interested Foundation. Given that that is so then having, say, three elvish threads of this nature is unnecessary thread bloat. :rofl: Very Elf-Bane, Elf-Bane. But, seriously, what do you think your DM would say to you if you said to him or her "you don't need NPCs or NPC cultures?" I don't think so. The GM reserves the right to introduce surprises, NOT within the Portfolio's of existent foundations. As I've said, though, there is no reason why a PC Foundation cannot accumulate wealth and power and be as influential as any other. It's just that the equity issue makes it impossible to divvy up the goods equally in PC Foundations equally. I had a long hard think about the alternative model (where say, The Dwarves have the Mithril Mines, the Humans the Big Cities, and the Elves the Magic) - and that has a number of problems. I have a headache thinking about how to do it, and I'm not going there. So - equal start. Zero wealth, No Combat points. Having said all that - I do very much like your Arena and Challenge thread ideas :devil: Equal power does not mean equal concept. And while varied concepts are a must, we must not let them destroy balance. One possible solution is to make the number of characters in a party part of the equation. A character with ECL of 16 would count as two total characters and every +1 above that would add 1 to the virtual number of characters that a single character counted as - so an ECL 20 character would be equivalent to a full party of 6 ECL15 characters. Just a thought. As I've said, I'm disappointed that we're struggling to allow ECL's. I personally prefer having scary things around, that I can't beat easily. I've put so much work into the Guild House, but that isn't an excuse to be too one-sided about things. So, your solution is a good second alternative. We currently have two. 1. ECL+Character Levels to a maximum of 15 2. ECL+Character Levels calculated to allow for "virtual members" 3. ECL (in normal model) - stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-27-04, 09:43 AM | Ok, I just read through more then 11 pages of information, no single post excluded, and at times it made me cry, other times I cheered. I cried because I learned about this (IMO) !great! plan to late to discuss along about a lot of what has happened here so far, and I cheered because eventually the best aspects of the entire idea always survived this verbal war. I tell you now sometimes I feared I couldn't keep up my reading speed with the rate you guys post at, but I catched up and am ready to react to all the things I have had to crop up until now... 1. THIS IS A GREAT GAME PLAN!! I've wanted to see such a thing ever since I visit the foundation board (member of dwarven foundation- both the old and new one). This means I'm planning to join this, if I can. Thank you Jack - we're very honoured. It's a pleasure to be able to provide. 2. If I can join, I'd like to begin the creation of my preferred character Garth the dwarf. In doing so, I still need to now, before I rash into things, the following, and even though some might be discussed sporadically already, never have I found a definitive conclusion: - point-buy amount? 32 seems a common proposition. - Character level max 15? - HP? May I roll the dies on the online roller? Taking the average has been mentioned. yes, yes, and yes. *looks at non-organic posters with furroughed brow* I'm *NOT* budging on organic-roll Hit Points. However, you may use averages if you wish. - I'm not planning on playing a terrasque or titan, but still there is no decision made concerning LA limits and such. - I also see the rules thread made by BronzeBeard has yet to change its character creation rules from M:TG to D&D (I assume the latter is what we have chosen looking at all the terms used during this discussion etc, but again no definitive conclusion read by me) Yes - we're on the way. Once we're thru 'ere, we can update master rules thread. 3. Choosing the starting sovereign. I'd almost abstain from voting, seeing as I don't know any of them very well yet, but realised this might just give me an advantage at voting rationally: I vote for Frosty, as I have the impression he shall be (I think) most suited for a starting sovereign, giving the players an easy time at the beginning, to get started and acquainted with the game. (Considering a stable, benevolent and peaceful type of government might provide these circumstances best) Frosty's a good man, and a very reasonable poster. In the 1.5 years I've been here, he has shown a generosity of heart seldom seen in other posters, a resilience and a genuine sense of fair play. I've really really really enjoyed Sssargoth's and thasis's contributions as well. I very very much want them to vie hard for the first High Kingship. After Stewardship. 4. It is a difficult discussion about the cluttering of the foundations, as both sides have their good points and bad ones. The only ideal solution would be a new board for this game, but since it seems impossible to achieve that, we have to make the best of it. I think the board is indeed cluttering up. When I was trying to understand the rules and trying to find the different threads that were referred to, I had a hard time finding some of them. Think in terms of "active-inactive" at any one time, only a portion will be active. But, I've ready your "sticky" idea and it's a good one. We can ditch at least one of the sticky's above, if not two. Which would leave us room for putting stuff. Perhaps, we could integrate NPC concepts into a well-organised Sticky, with lots of URLs and so on. That might work. 5. Lastly (yes finally he said 'lastly' ;)) a question. About the in- and outflow of the game's members. A new foundation wishing to enter the games, is almost automatically doomed to fail, as the foundation of course starts with few members, while the already long-lived foundations have 50 or so members they have gained over the many months. This, in my eyes, is a concern that should be dealt with Agreed. It does need attention. I'm glad someone has finally spotted it. It's something I've been mulling over. One solution - "benevolency" or "sovereign-clemency" - or "Guild Rights for Minority Guilds" (during Lawful reigns), where It is Decreed that any Master Guild or Powerful Guild that Oppressess, Marginalises or Destroys Minor Guilds will Incur the Sovereign's wrath. for example. During Chaotic Evil Reigns - we'd all need to be scared then - and we'd all need to band together against the Tyrant - for example. Any other ideas or suggestions... Again, thank you for your contributions. regards stav |
| Sssargoth10-27-04, 02:54 PM | I've really really really enjoyed Sssargoth's and thasis's contributions as well. I very very much want them to vie hard for the first High Kingship. After Stewardship. I only offered to take the post as soverign so people wouldn't complain that I was too powerful, and let them catch up before becoming the scourge of the land as is in my nature. :D on the ECL thing, if you dot want me being so powerful, I could bump myself down to wyrmling. |
| Demonfey10-27-04, 03:22 PM | One for Frostbite. I'm leaning that way too. About ECL's - What I don't want, is a world populated by standard things. However, I have a solution. PC's with ECLs - *must* have lower PC levels. Thus, if Sssargoth comes out with an ECL of +10, then he must be a 5th level PC. While I don't really like this model very much, it seems there are few posters who like the idea of having something bigger and scarier than them to face. Disappointing, but I'm happy to go with the revised model. That way, you get the opportunity to have some exceptional strength, say or spell-like abilities, and so on, while keeping the playing field even. Comments... stav Could already existing PCs with a higher ECL just act as a way to keep other people in game (ie, ressurrections and other things) and a way to enforce the Sovereign's rules by request? |
| JackRipper10-27-04, 04:13 PM | Ok thanks for the answers; I'm almost ready to really start building my character now. Also, it is indeed a good idea to have the Sovereign Power somehow protect the smaller foundations. I hope it will be enough for them to survive, but I'm still a bit concerned. However, I can't think of any better ideas. Also, I quote myself just to make sure my last question in my previous posts is heard: With the 'outflow of members' I mean: character death, not members stopping. I was wondering what would happen when a character dies, which, as I now look at the current rules and such, could happen quite easily, should he simply quit the game? Is that character forever done with? Or are there any safety nets? So in short; what happens when a character dies? |
| Silvanus10-27-04, 04:23 PM | I'm sorry I never posted this earlier, but I really, really think everyone' ECL should be equal. If you can't get to 15th with your race than choose another one. Ssargoth starting at ECL 19/20 puts him at a big advantage, regardless of the experience point thing. LA is a cool thing and players should be allowed to be as whacked-out as they want- putting the limit at 15 allows most things. |
| Sssargoth10-27-04, 05:16 PM | I'm sorry I never posted this earlier, but I really, really think everyone' ECL should be equal. If you can't get to 15th with your race than choose another one. Ssargoth starting at ECL 19/20 puts him at a big advantage, regardless of the experience point thing. LA is a cool thing and players should be allowed to be as whacked-out as they want- putting the limit at 15 allows most things. thats why I offerd to drop down to a wyrmling, which would allow for a few class levels. If everybody wants me to do that, just say so, I'm flexable. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-27-04, 06:40 PM | The balance of views seems to be weighted against ECLs. However, we have a model with "virtual" assistance. I have another model that is not unlike the "virtual assistance" model of Tenzhi's. Another model *and read this closely - utilises GMing and Judge assistance to ensure that at any one time, in Player-To-Player mode, that encounters are Matched UNLESS OTHERWISE REQUESTED BY THE COMBATANTS. ALSO that In the event that person a, a 15th level wizard, wants to take on a 25th level Barbarian, in a MATCHED competition, that such a wizard will be able to REQUEST NPC (OR PC) Aid - TO 10 LEVEL'S WORTH)* I would also like to point out that people are going to advance at different rates. Because, some of you won't be regularly adventuring and some of you WILL be more regularly adventuring. It won't be fair for the regulars, to do all this hard posing work, and for irregulars to get a sizable chuck of experience, by "just being there" in NPC mode. So - I'm going to propose a "Number of Posts per Unit Time" as one of the criterion of experience points. Post more regularly, and you'll be eligible for more levels. In fact, this is actually very much like life. Some people don't adventure as much as others out in the big wide world of ours and we accumulate wisdom and experience at different rates, depending on what we do with our lives. So - Level Advancement is about 1. the usual D&D *and* 2. a portion is about frequency of posts - with 20 posts per 1000 expererience points. BUT - *ONLY THOSE POSTS THAT ARE NON-SPAM, and either IN-GAME (IG) OR Out of Game (OoG) but that are text analysis, productive or that add to a normal discussion. Comments? PS - thanx Sylvanus+Sssargoth+You're very welcome JR And one more model about ECLs (we're up to five) YOU MAY BUILD IN AN EQUIVALENT ECL vulnerability. So, in Sssargoth's case, a -10 ECL for one or a combination of VULNERABILITIES would constitute fair gaming. In that model, Sssargoth, you could adventure to UNDO those vulnerabilities, which is essentially, like a Level Advancement |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-27-04, 06:46 PM | PS have to go to work - I'm not far away - I think we're getting very close to beginning now. ANYONE NOT ON THE PC THREAD - YOU'RE NOT ELIGIBLE TO INGAME ACTIVITIES UNLESS YOU HAVE A PC. But YOU MAY CONTRIBUTE Out Of Game on ANY THREAD Well done everyone. Stav |
| Sssargoth10-27-04, 07:45 PM | In that model, Sssargoth, you could adventure to UNDO those vulnerabilities, which is essentially, like a Level Advancement[/b] I'll just drop myself down to a 1 year old wyrmling with 4 class levels for an ECL of 15. |
| anglar10-27-04, 07:46 PM | He's just trying to flirt with you.. ;) But, also quoted for truthery :D But I'm the flirty one. |
| Fuzzy Logic Inc.10-27-04, 07:47 PM | Since it got passed over before, fo any number of reasons, I'll ask again. Do we need to present custom material we wish to use in our characters? |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-27-04, 07:48 PM | By the gods - Theres a lot to go through. As far as I can tell though my opinions and answers have already been said so: You asked for me to give reasons as to why I should be the King?: I will be neutral. Thats it. The other men who are "against me" are also reasonable, smart and capable. I feel no need to showever personal attributes into your faces. K.I.S.S - Keep It Simple Stupid - A Golden phrase which should be more listend to some times. -Frosty |
| anglar10-27-04, 07:56 PM | While I don't really like this model very much, it seems there are few posters who like the idea of having something bigger and scarier than them to face. Disappointing, but I'm happy to go with the revised model. That way, you get the opportunity to have some exceptional strength, say or spell-like abilities, and so on, while keeping the playing field even. Comments... stav I love you, but I disagree. It is one thing to think of this as "players versus DMs" in which faces challenges greater than yourself should be expected, but if we are to compete with each other, then it can only be on equal footing. If the main reason player X wins is because he has 50 more hit points due to his race, then how fair a contest was it? Everything has a CR or ECL that falls within the limit we have suggested. It is possible to be a dragon of CR 15 and still be effective. While I would probably represent myself as a FTR15, I'm sure Anglar will probably be some combination of 13 levels because he has embraced his Drow blood. |
| Tenzhi10-27-04, 09:17 PM | Even a DM generally keeps the challenges on relatively equal footing with the PCs by choosing challenges of an appropriate CR or encounter level. However, if PCs are going to be advancing, then despite my best intentions people are eventually going to be on unequal footing anyway. Thus I feel I should put forward my "weight class" inspired idea once again, in which we would have several tiers of competition/challenge divided by level ranges. This would allow people to start at different levels and still be on relatively equal footing. |
| king_of_evil00710-27-04, 09:46 PM | It's not that I don't like having dragons and paragon mind flayers and deities walking around - but unless other posters have another job other than participant in the games (Judge, deity, whatever) we should all be equal with one another. I suggest a curse. So if somebody's ECL 20, they're "cursed" and lose 5 levels of that ECL until they can gain them back through XP, like normal. My problem is that we have all these resource threads. The game hasn't even started yet. To begin, I think all we need is a Meta Thread, a "rec room" of sorts (Blue Lizard Inn fits perfectly) a challenge thread and an arena thread, and a single resource thread for the moment. Once we get accustomed to the game, fix stuff (if needed) and generally get started, past the tutorial so to speak, we can start bringing in more resource threads. So the Judges and Deities (are they the same? I've been losing track of posts lately) might say "And on the nineteenth eve of the Games, we unlock the Lake of Evendim, for thy attempts to conquer" and lo and behold, a new resource thread. The key is to introduce stuff slowly. The Games haven't begun yet, and already Resource threads are appearing everywhere. We haven't even solidified character creation or Sovereigns yet, and already new locations are popping up. . . I recommend we slow down. Like I said before, baby steps. Once we all have our characters and have played for a week or so (using a single resource thread for all resources, tracked separately, perhaps), and once we've gotten a hold of how the rules work, what we can and can't do, begun basic alliances and rivalries. . . then we can start getting into the complexities of the game. K.I.S.S, as Frostbite said (although I believe Frost was referring to something else). Or at the very least, S.I.S.S (Start It Simple, Stupid). Although I don't mean to call anybody stupid, because none of you are. In other words, we simply need a warmup period. Note: In this post, resource thread & location thread are the same thing. Edit: I don't mean to come off as a pain, really, I don't want to come off like that. Don't take it that way, please. I just think it's getting too big too fast, that's all. Keep up the excellent work everybody! |
| Dyne10-27-04, 10:12 PM | I'll just drop myself down to a 1 year old wyrmling with 4 class levels for an ECL of 15. NOOOOO!!! This is D&D, we need big dragons to fight against! I think people should be able to play virtually any type of character they want, even if it puts them a FEW levels above the limit. Otherwise, if everyone insists on EVERYONE being EXACTLY the same ECL, then Sssargoth, just make your ability scores before racial adjustments so crummy that it brings your ECL down to 15. You'd still be a big, powerful dragon, but not AS powerful compared to what you would be otherwise. I would also like to point out that people are going to advance at different rates. Because, some of you won't be regularly adventuring and some of you WILL be more regularly adventuring. It won't be fair for the regulars, to do all this hard posing work, and for irregulars to get a sizable chuck of experience, by "just being there" in NPC mode. So - I'm going to propose a "Number of Posts per Unit Time" as one of the criterion of experience points. Post more regularly, and you'll be eligible for more levels. In fact, this is actually very much like life. Some people don't adventure as much as others out in the big wide world of ours and we accumulate wisdom and experience at different rates, depending on what we do with our lives. Hmmm. An interesting idea. But, I thought experience would already be determined by how many fights they participated in and such. Just sitting there in NPC form shouldn't get them experience anyway because they're not doing anything. EXAMPLE: Bob the Fighter has participated in X number of fights, earning X number of experience. Joe the Wizard is an irregular poster, so he hasn't been in as many battles. He's earned X number of experience, a little less than Bob, because he hasn't had as much of a chance to practice his skills and to learn from his mistakes as Bob has had. But, this idea might encourage people to post more in the Guild House, so I like it. Since it got passed over before, fo any number of reasons, I'll ask again. Do we need to present custom material we wish to use in our characters? I think you should at least explain exactly what the stuff is and what it does. With the 'outflow of members' I mean: character death, not members stopping. I was wondering what would happen when a character dies, which, as I now look at the current rules and such, could happen quite easily, should he simply quit the game? Is that character forever done with? Or are there any safety nets? So in short; what happens when a character dies? I think it would be reasonable for them to either get resurrected or to start off again at 15th-level. That way, if they die, they have to start over and gain experience all over again, making death be something to fear instead of just: "I just died. Oh well, I'll just create him again at the same level so he's exactly the same as when he died." |
| turalisj10-27-04, 10:30 PM | i like your style dyne! if sil or the other judges agrees then i'll raise my guys age to adult, just to provide a big guy to fight. |
| Sssargoth10-27-04, 11:05 PM | Otherwise, if everyone insists on EVERYONE being EXACTLY the same ECL, then Sssargoth, just make your ability scores before racial adjustments so crummy that it brings your ECL down to 15. You'd still be a big, powerful dragon, but not AS powerful compared to what you would be otherwise. That isn't hapinin because I already modified it. You can check if you want. I find it more amusing when this scenario comes up. Barbarian: "Hey everybod, it's a baby dragon. Let's kill it!" *charges* "HAAAAAAA!!!!" *Dragon waves claw* Barbarian: *Still charging* "AHHHHHHHhggh...." *explodes* Everyone else: "oh S***! Look what that wyrmling just did!!! um...RUN!!!!" *Runs away* See how satisfying that can be. :mage: :mage: :mage: :mage: |
| Dyne10-28-04, 01:27 AM | Hmmm. Your character looks like a fair match. Are you done yet, cause I wanna start dueling. I'm almost done with my character, just have a little more gold to spend and spells to choose. |
| Sssargoth10-28-04, 01:37 AM | Hmmm. Your character looks like a fair match. Are you done yet, cause I wanna start dueling. I'm almost done with my character, just have a little more gold to spend and spells to choose. just need to pick out powers and get the LA cleared up. Tenzhi, could you PM me on that when you get a chance. btw, cool CT. :thumbsup: |
| JackRipper10-28-04, 07:56 AM | I recommend we slow down. Like I said before, baby steps. Once we all have our characters and have played for a week or so (using a single resource thread for all resources, tracked separately, perhaps), and once we've gotten a hold of how the rules work, what we can and can't do, begun basic alliances and rivalries. . . then we can start getting into the complexities of the game. I quote it because I have to agree. If we go to quick, we will start and probably get lost in the amount of threads there are now already (literally!). But as a matter of fact, we need not destroy any of the already existing threads, as all of them are cool and we can just put them 'on hold' or something, and the threads themselves can be locked. And whenever one of them gets unlocked, and an 'open-up post' is made, then instead of it 'being just another one of those location threads', it actually draws attention from everyone, ready to get conquered or whatever. This way we both prevent that we go to quick, and every single location thread might be valued more as an entity on its own. I think it would be reasonable for them to either get resurrected or to start off again at 15th-level. That way, if they die, they have to start over and gain experience all over again, making death be something to fear instead of just: "I just died. Oh well, I'll just create him again at the same level so he's exactly the same as when he died." I just had an idea perhaps: I don't know if it is too much to ask for the deities amongst us, but perhaps if we let them decide what happens to those who die? It would resemble a bit of mythology, as the gods are the final judge, AND it might add great aspects to the game, as people would actually want to be in the favour of the gods (e.g. worshipping), for they would not want to loose 10 levels when they die instead of only 3, just to name an example. If the deities would agree to do this, then it might give way for an extra source of intrigue. However, there should of course be some limits to the deities' freedom in this matter, as after death kicking someone from the game for example is not what the purpose of this game is. So - Level Advancement is about 1. the usual D&D *and* 2. a portion is about frequency of posts - with 20 posts per 1000 expererience points. BUT - *ONLY THOSE POSTS THAT ARE NON-SPAM, and either IN-GAME (IG) OR Out of Game (OoG) but that are text analysis, productive or that add to a normal discussion. Comments? Hmmm. An interesting idea. But, I thought experience would already be determined by how many fights they participated in and such. Just sitting there in NPC form shouldn't get them experience anyway because they're not doing anything. I think this posting system is a great idea. I have no problems with it at all. But I disagree with Dyne: you stated that the amount of fights someone was in should give the experience. But some characters will not fight as much as others, instead focusing mainly on politics, or such (less risky and without direct cr's and such) things. Also people who help with outgame things are rewarded by this system, and that should remain that way I think. So in my opinion having only fights give you xp is not a good idea. |
| BronzeBeard10-28-04, 08:36 AM | I'm afraid I have to agree. This has gone from a friendly little contest to an event that is completely overwhelming the entire guild forum. This is no longer a contest, you're trying to birth an entire world within the forum and there isn't enough room for it. I'd like you all to check the posts I made during this thread (you don't have to) but I think I hade said all the way that this kind of game sil has in mind is just overwhelmingly big for both online chat & DnD rules. |
| BronzeBeard10-28-04, 09:53 AM | - I also see the rules thread made by BronzeBeard has yet to change its character creation rules from M:TG to D&D (I assume the latter is what we have chosen looking at all the terms used during this discussion etc, but again no definitive conclusion read by me) I'm waiting for a decision about the rules of the games. I make a small fixes here and there but there's really no point at changing the rules thread at the pace of this disscusion forum. |
| BronzeBeard10-28-04, 10:46 AM | I'd like to welcome JackRipper for joining the IFWG. Sorry that you had to read all eleven pages. here's me 2 cp :smirk: I join with KoE's and Tenzhi's opinion about "baby step". but i already wrote that down. Maybe we shouldn't let players have more than one character, dunno, just a thought. anyway, 'bout that ECL - i can do fine with 5 levels limit i don't think we should push it too much. for your character's - point into abilitie - you may choose 1 of the following: point-buy method, 32 points - or - sil's online dice roller. character level 15 max HP - 1st level full + average roll for all other levels I still think that frost is suitable for starter king. Frosty, start working on your rullings... :) For the 'too many threads problem'. we need at least: [list]one rules thread. rules disscusing thread (we can combine it with the rules thread. ongoing game thread. soveregin thread. and a thread for each organization (which is the original foundations threads). this are the basics, the rest of the foundations are not-must threads. (yes, even the geo' threads. IMO we don't need NPC's threads. bare in mind that we use D&D rules but we are NOT playing DnD here. it's AN IFGW and thats about it.) and I CAN make it so that a foundation will have equal power without equal resources. It's just so that i'm working on von crown's idea based on the rules from dragon magazine 293 (and the mass war actions with the WARCRAFT RPG Books) so stay tuned. Since it got passed over before, fo any number of reasons, I'll ask again. Do we need to present custom material we wish to use in our characters? As part of a foundation - you have the power to bring IG the stuff you had created. But you must be a member of an organization that exist both in game and OoG. K.I.S.S - Keep It Simple Stupid - A Golden phrase which should be more listend to some times. -Frosty I said it first My problem is that we have all these resource threads. The game hasn't even started yet. To begin, I think all we need is a Meta Thread, a "rec room" of sorts a challenge thread and an arena thread, and a single resource thread for the moment. Once we get accustomed to the game, fix stuff (if needed) and generally get started, past the tutorial so to speak, we can start bringing in more resource threads. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: So the Judges and Deities (are they the same? Yes they are. as for ressucating - once a character is dead than one of the gods, played by a judge, will have the ressuracte abilitie and tell him: "if you want to keep your char' the n loose the following skills/feats/levels/hp or do a task for me..." oops. didn't looked at the time. gotta go. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-28-04, 11:16 AM | Hi everyone. Interesting comments. We shall abide to the KISS test. There are two qualifiers to that, though. 1. As the game progresses and we get going, I will introduce materials appropriately. 2. The NPC materials stay but will be introduced at a careful pace. As stated, your GM reserves the right to govern materials not subsumed (within) the portfolio of PC foundations. I've just spent the day immersed in the scientific literature on risk perception. As has been pointed out by a number of writers, human beings need risk to find their lives interesting, to grow, and to expand their horizons. The child who takes their first step, is taking a risk. The person who gets up on stage for the first time is taking a risk. The adventurer in D&D with a cherished character, is taking a risk. Without some, people fall into a malaise. However, the kinds of risk and how much are the crucial factors. Too much or too little lead to problems. It's a balancing act. Since it got passed over before, fo any number of reasons, I'll ask again. Do we need to present custom material we wish to use in our characters? My apologies for missing this earlier. The custom materials, can be posted onto your character. The posters who have a problem with it, will holler, and we will workshop it. I'll look forwards to seeing your materials. "weight class" inspired idea once again, in which we would have several tiers of competition/challenge divided by level ranges Yes. I have been wondering when someone would highlight the fact that no matter how level the starting field, the point of the game is to get ahead and to better your Foundation and Personal goals. A game without risk and different speeds of advancement is uninteresting. See next post. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-28-04, 11:26 AM | 1. We can't have a full-rec room thread on this Forum. It's too far off-topic and we'll get dun for it by the mods. But, we can have a rec-room thread with a game-focus (i.e. The Inn thread). But it's got to have a role in the game. 2. We will have a "battle thread" (it's an important concept). 3. We will have a *ONE* resource thread to start with. It will be an NPC thread in no-one's possession except the NPC community to start with. You will need to vie for access to it or, alternatively, work out how to share it. I.e. set up trading corridors between your Foundations - or whatever. Without a supply of gold, your foundations is toothless and contains mountains of Lore without the raw materials to build your items. Manufacturing 101. 4. The Meta thread. 5. The Sovereign Thread+Judges. Note - the Alignment Thread (any one of Frosty's Choice) is where the Laws of the Land will be "Enforced" from. The King does not do his own enforcement - he gets his buddies and cronies to do it. Thus, Frosty, could command the Law-Enforcers to go and do their thing, via the Alignment threads (alignment is a central concept in D&D). If you want to shape the Laws of the Land - you have to join up with an Alignment thread. The High King paces in his chambers - and his mood is fell. His piercing grey eyes look upon his lands. He turns his gaze outwards, towards you - and he knows you are here with him. His face is grim as his eyes flash. He raises the Sceptre of the Monarch and its radiant power buffets you - as he Extends his Sight. You suddenly share what his eyes can see as the Sceptre flashes with iridescent azure. And you can see all the lands below. The Psions, the Elves, Dwarves, Dragons and all manner of People. "Our Laws are involate. Those who defy them - will be punished. And Treason will bring you certain ruin - or worse. For our Dungeons are filled with all manner of terrors. There are machines of horror and worse. For magical service knows no limit to its purpose, except the limits of imagination. For without Kingly rule - the lands would be quickly overrun by Darkness. Treason, then, is to defy our Edicts. Those who have tried before you have died." He raises The Sovereign Sword - a mighty weapon and cunningly crafted. Its hilt ornate and bejewelled, and the blade inscribed with potent runes. He extends the sword towards you - and from it erupts a surge of dweomer - that he extinguishes, just as it is about to engulf you. For the briefest of moments, you feel an annihilating pain, before your body recovers.... I will also upkeep the Tale of the Years - so that we can have a laugh at the botches and blunders.... Comments... Stav PS - If I've missed anyone's post, please re-post it. It's 1:30 am and I've just finished my daily chores..... take care everyone stav |
| ChaosEvoker10-28-04, 11:31 AM | Cool! I like the idea of Foundations creating things and then throwing them at each-other. However, I do think we need some kind of objectivity- a panel of GMs, perhaps, to approve a new creation before it's thrown into the fray. I fa foundation requests approval for something way over-powered, they could even lose points... Reading this, I'd like to offer my Guild: The Foundation of Dungeon Masters to fullfill this role and the roles of moderators and referees and such things. We, not being based on any class or race or theme other than DMing, woudl be excellent for this purpose. Tell me what you think. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-28-04, 11:39 AM | Tenzh+Frosty+Necrodude are our Judges - (did I miss one Judge)? Chaos Evoker - You're right to assert that view. Tenzhi has a mountain of years DMing (as does Anglar, our pending GM - over 15 years worth, I think and I've DM'd for 20 years or so). I'm not sure how much Frosty or Necro - but we'll blunder our way thru) :) I'm not going to Judge - I think it's important to share the responsibility and power amongst many. I work hard enough at this forum as it is (but I do love it). :) If you're interested in contributing, please let us know. About Tiers of Competition It's not fair on the posters who have high 'risk-thresholds' to block them from having a fight with something scary. It is likewise, not fair on posters who prefer a more even playing field. we shall therefore have both. We especially need both, because very quickly, we shall all be at different levels and we need a way to manage level discrepancies. Next post - 'how' to do this. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-28-04, 11:44 AM | when you or your foundation are challenged, if you are outranked, you can opt to either "go it alone" or you can "call your buddies" and allies to the frey. The idea, is that, just like in D&D, sometimes that simple fight with one orc turns into a 'cast of thousands' as new combatants join the frey. can your characters die? Yes, they can. Subject to the rules about bringing you back from the dead. All special abilities (e.g. psionic ones) that are death-preventing may be used. Can your Foundation be "destroyed" Noone can actually stop posters posting to your foundation. But (In-Game) you can be overrun, taken over or looted, sacked, plundered. Etc. The outcome of two foundations going the hack at each other - is about Combat Points and Judges Rulings. You can also "rebuild" - ....by reaccumulating wealth, with counter-actions against your enemies, etc. stav |
| Silvanus10-28-04, 03:52 PM | Dyne and turalisj: To reciprocate Dyne's sentiment- NOOOO! Dyne, if you want to have players who are much moe powerful than you, theirs no law against you starting at 10th level. In fact, you can play a 1st level gibberling commoner with all ability scores at 1 point. But personally, I want to be equal with everyone else. As I see it, your idea will be used 2 ways: 1- By people who want to have a "challenge" 2- By people who want to be better than everyone else while remaining biased (unlike Judges, who use their power fairly). EDIT: This is actually from a bunch of posts back. But my opinion still holds. |
| Demonfey10-28-04, 03:58 PM | 1. We can't have a full-rec room thread on this Forum. It's too far off-topic and we'll get dun for it by the mods. But, we can have a rec-room thread with a game-focus (i.e. The Inn thread). But it's got to have a role in the game. 2. We will have a "battle thread" (it's an important concept). 3. We will have a *ONE* resource thread to start with. It will be an NPC thread in no-one's possession except the NPC community to start with. You will need to vie for access to it or, alternatively, work out how to share it. I.e. set up trading corridors between your Foundations - or whatever. Without a supply of gold, your foundations is toothless and contains mountains of Lore without the raw materials to build your items. Manufacturing 101. 4. The Meta thread. 5. The Sovereign Thread+Judges. Note - the Alignment Thread (any one of Frosty's Choice) is where the Laws of the Land will be "Enforced" from. The King does not do his own enforcement - he gets his buddies and cronies to do it. Thus, Frosty, could command the Law-Enforcers to go and do their thing, via the Alignment threads (alignment is a central concept in D&D). If you want to shape the Laws of the Land - you have to join up with an Alignment thread. The High King paces in his chambers - and his mood is fell. His piercing grey eyes look upon his lands. He turns his gaze outwards, towards you - and he knows you are here with him. His face is grim as his eyes flash. He raises the Sceptre of the Monarch and its radiant power buffets you - as he Extends his Sight. You suddenly share what his eyes can see as the Sceptre flashes with iridescent azure. And you can see all the lands below. The Psions, the Elves, Dwarves, Dragons and all manner of People. "Our Laws are involate. Those who defy them - will be punished. And Treason will bring you certain ruin - or worse. For our Dungeons are filled with all manner of terrors. There are machines of horror and worse. For magical service knows no limit to its purpose, except the limits of imagination. For without Kingly rule - the lands would be quickly overrun by Darkness. Treason, then, is to defy our Edicts. Those who have tried before you have died." He raises The Sovereign Sword - a mighty weapon and cunningly crafted. Its hilt ornate and bejewelled, and the blade inscribed with potent runes. He extends the sword towards you - and from it erupts a surge of dweomer - that he extinguishes, just as it is about to engulf you. For the briefest of moments, you feel an annihilating pain, before your body recovers.... I will also upkeep the Tale of the Years - so that we can have a laugh at the botches and blunders.... Comments... Stav PS - If I've missed anyone's post, please re-post it. It's 1:30 am and I've just finished my daily chores..... take care everyone stav Can I be a cronie in general, namely one that works for any Sovereign, any reign? |
| Von Crown10-28-04, 05:47 PM | hmm... I would always appreciate an underling... |
| king_of_evil00710-28-04, 05:48 PM | Hi everyone. Interesting comments. We shall abide to the KISS test. There are two qualifiers to that, though. 1. As the game progresses and we get going, I will introduce materials appropriately. 2. The NPC materials stay but will be introduced at a careful pace. As stated, your GM reserves the right to govern materials not subsumed (within) the portfolio of PC foundations. I've just spent the day immersed in the scientific literature on risk perception. As has been pointed out by a number of writers, human beings need risk to find their lives interesting, to grow, and to expand their horizons. The child who takes their first step, is taking a risk. The person who gets up on stage for the first time is taking a risk. The adventurer in D&D with a cherished character, is taking a risk. Without some, people fall into a malaise. However, the kinds of risk and how much are the crucial factors. Too much or too little lead to problems. It's a balancing act. There's a balance between risks and caution, as (I think) you just said. A child may take baby steps, but that's usually done in home, in a relatively safe enviornment. Not in the middle of a field, all alone, surrounded by hundreds of new things. Once the baby learns to walk, then he can begin running and mountain climbing. . . By Rec Room thread, I meant a place where everybody meets, like the inn. There, there's a "no weapons" law, so people can meet there, and discuss stuff, from allies to taunting enemies. Within reason, of course. I didn't mean an Off-Topic thread (although rereading, it did come off as such, my apologies). -KoE |
| Demonfey10-28-04, 06:38 PM | I want to be a crony for the Sovereign(s) |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-28-04, 06:45 PM | Good morning everyone - erm, *scratches head* I mean good evening at your end @Dyne+Turaisj There will be plenty of ways to accumulate *not only levels* but also *ECLs*. This isn't standard D&D, but a cousin of it. I'm also still prepared to look at: 1. Level 2. ECL 3. Negative ECL Combinations (a negative ECL is a curse, handicap, limitation). I'll have a good look at all the characters tomorrow, as it is Friday here.... @Demonfey *grins* Can I be a cronie in general, namely one that works for any Sovereign, any reign? When I first read this, I thought you meant "Can I be a general of the Sovereign's armies" - you know, maybe like the Voice of Sauron - or the Good Equivalent - Glorfindel. You can be anything you want. There's a balance between risks and caution, as (I think) you just said. A child may take baby steps, but that's usually done in home, in a relatively safe enviornment. Not in the middle of a field, all alone, surrounded by hundreds of new things. Correct. And there are what's called "individual differences" around an average need for safety. @All So - some children 'escape' mum's proximity earlier than others. My nephew was known as The Omen (after the movie) because he was constantly running away from his mum when she wasn't looking (she's a good mum, btw, it's just that Damien had an extra splash of 'risk-seeking' to his nature). Too much or too little on this domain causes problems. Too much leads to accidents. We also have pre-wired brain circuits for what's called "harm avoidance" and we all have different thresholds on this one as well. By this, what I mean is when we're very small, we reach for all sorts of things that can hurt us, like hot irons (I have a scar on my left hand from where I grabbed an iron as a 2 year old). That taught me a very primal lesson. We all have different "set points" or "thermostat settings" on a number of individual difference variables, such as harm avoidance, risk aversion, sensation seeking, pain tolerance, self-sacrifce and so on. The truth is, those variations come into play for us when we play D&D as well. Importantly, no one person has the 'right' combination of set-points. We're all interesting and different, but the same at the same time. Strange as it may sound, I score quite highly on harm-avoidance and self-sacrifice at the same time (if you think about it, that's a really conflicted combination). I'm cautious about putting my body at risk of harm. But, I'm also a very loyal person, and have gone into very scary places for good causes or to save lives (I can't say more about this, real world topics violate the CoC) except to say, that out of loyaty to a dear friend, I went to a wedding in a war zone, when everyone said I was mad. And secondly, what I can say is that I've crossed mountains in scary places because my friend was in dire need. And that I put myself at risk of death (by oxygen deprivation) to save her life. That was the longest 10 hours of my life after I sent my friend away to safety (in the only vehicle that wasn't trapped that I flagged down) and then waited - at 5,500 meters (that's about 20,000 feet) to either die or survive. But, I didn't acclimatize, I instead, went from 1600 meteres (3500 feet) to 20,000 feet in a few hours. For those of you who know anything about the human body - that's a very dangerous thing to do. But - it was for my friend. I would *never* do that sort of dumb thing just for thrills. I can still see the twinkling stars in the dizzy mountain heights, as I recall my laboured breathing. I am still best friends with that woman today. She is very grateful and we return to that place with fondness looking back. So - |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-28-04, 06:53 PM | I want to be a crony for the Sovereign(s) *cracks* Sil-Mr-Burns-ian: eexxxxcceeellllent Demonfey. That's the way, that Lisa Simpson's a smart girl, but she doesn't understand that workers exist to make me money! Sil-Lisa-Simpson-ian: The duty of every responsible civic-minded citizen is to protect the People. "Let them eat cake" cried Mary Antoinette - and look what happened to her! *pulls it together* I want you to think about what sort of a cronie you want to be. "Cronie's" will be allocated NPC troops to command [i]The High King studies his Generals and he points the Sceptre at Demonfey. His gaze is severe and his face humourless. "Find the Treasonous Ones. Bring them to me. Show no mercy for treachery." He Incants - the Sceptre flashes - and 20 KingsWards appear - the Magical beings who have taken an Oath and who are merciless in their Duty. Some say they can track you down, no matter where you are. There is nowhere to hide from KingsWards. They will find you when you are alone and - even when in the remotest desert or coldest region.../i] I'm going to cut templates for these things on the Characters Thread - look in the top left hand corner for NPC statistics stav have to go to work shortly..... enjoy everyone |
| Demonfey10-28-04, 07:18 PM | I want to be the person who kills or punishes those who disobey the edicts enough to need to be taken down and possibly destroyed down to their very SOULS. Also, does that fall under a group that wants to beat the crap out of all the others to show that they are the best? |
| Dyne10-28-04, 07:31 PM | To reciprocate Dyne's sentiment- NOOOO! Dyne, if you want to have players who are much moe powerful than you, theirs no law against you starting at 10th level. In fact, you can play a 1st level gibberling commoner with all ability scores at 1 point. I think this posting system is a great idea. I have no problems with it at all. But I disagree with Dyne: you stated that the amount of fights someone was in should give the experience. But some characters will not fight as much as others, instead focusing mainly on politics, or such (less risky and without direct cr's and such) things. Also people who help with outgame things are rewarded by this system, and that should remain that way I think. So in my opinion having only fights give you xp is not a good idea. Huh? What'd I say? Ok, first off, I want the game to be as equal as possible. But, I don't want that to exclude people from playing certain types of creatures simply because the LA would push their ECL above 15. I don't want all the dragons in the world to be little Wyrmlings. That's boring. That's why I suggested making the ability scores lower to give them a negative LA that would take their ECL down to 15. An Adult Red Dragon wouldn't be as powerful as an Adult Red Dragon would normally be, but he'd still be an Adult Red Dragon, and it would be fair to everyone. Second, I also like Sil's idea of an experience point reward dependant on number of posts. It would encourage people to post in the Guild House. But, I was pointing out that characters shouldn't accumulate XP by just sitting there. If they did political and roleplaying stuff, that would warrant an XP reward all on its own. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-28-04, 10:48 PM | The alignment guild I pick will be - The Guild of Law. Demonfey I will gladly take you on as Chief Prosecutor I believe I remember you saying that only the four core alignments would be open to the Sovs. That’s fine I chose law. That seemed the most "Remain neutral and give time for everyone to prosper" alignment. As for Dming experience...well I cant exactly put up such high numbers like Anglars and Sils 15 and 20 years of dming experience. 15-20 years ago my only love was drinking and I threw up a lot. These aren't great traits of a DM and the language barrier would have been a problem. However I've been playing since 2nd edition, although I never dmed a 2e game, I have dmed in most of my 3rd edition games. There are two "regular dms" in my group so we have to switch on and off. Ironically I had always done games like this to keep things interesting. I've made them commanders in charge of armies, leaders of a young yet thriving ancient roman mafia, heroes from myths and interesting things. So I'm prepared for the different and making things ups on the spot. Sil - you were talking about how a risk is needed in order to have fun. Well as both a God and a judge I really don’t have too much to worry about, at least in the beginning but I’ll disprove your theory! ;) -Frosty |
| anglar10-28-04, 11:16 PM | You give me too much credit, Frosty. I've only been a DM since 3E came out. I was just a player until then, though I go back to 85. |
| baerdith10-29-04, 12:06 AM | One for Frostbite. PC's with ECLs - *must* have lower PC levels. Thus, if Sssargoth comes out with an ECL of +10, then he must be a 5th level PC. stav I vote Frosty too. :mad: There goes my vampire/werebear/half-celestial/paragon half-elf/wizard :weep: |
| Tenzhi10-29-04, 01:03 AM | I'd like you all to check the posts I made during this thread (you don't have to) but I think I hade said all the way that this kind of game sil has in mind is just overwhelmingly big for both online chat & DnD rules. In which case Sil needs to narrow her scope of vision a bit, as - for reasons I've already stated - this event should stick to D&D as those are the rules that already drive the foundations' creations. @Sil: Regarding "tiers" - I think you're saying pretty much what I had in mind. Those who are so inclined can participate in higher-tiered events, but those who aren't can refuse higher-tiered challenges and sticked to balanced encounters. |
| ChaosEvoker10-29-04, 07:32 AM | Tenzh+Frosty+Necrodude are our Judges - (did I miss one Judge)? Chaos Evoker - You're right to assert that view. Tenzhi has a mountain of years DMing (as does Anglar, our pending GM - over 15 years worth, I think and I've DM'd for 20 years or so). I'm not sure how much Frosty or Necro - but we'll blunder our way thru) :) If you're interested in contributing, please let us know. About Tiers of Competition In refference to this, how many referees will you need. I'd like to contribute, but I mean this sounds pretty large scale how many DMs are you gonna need? |
| Raven Dark10-29-04, 10:17 AM | Ravendark, Archmage of Debilitation Magic, has returned... I have here a spell of my own design as a gift for all of you: STONE CURSE Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 9 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area: One creature/level within a 40-ft.-radius spread Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude negates Spell Resistance: Yes As Flesh to Stone, except as noted above. Material Components: Lime, Water, and chips of stone from a petrified creature. Use it to decorate your halls or to capture enemies alive (more or less). |
| Demonfey10-29-04, 03:15 PM | The alignment guild I pick will be - The Guild of Law. Demonfey I will gladly take you on as Chief Prosecutor I believe I remember you saying that only the four core alignments would be open to the Sovs. That’s fine I chose law. That seemed the most "Remain neutral and give time for everyone to prosper" alignment. As for Dming experience...well I cant exactly put up such high numbers like Anglars and Sils 15 and 20 years of dming experience. 15-20 years ago my only love was drinking and I threw up a lot. These aren't great traits of a DM and the language barrier would have been a problem. However I've been playing since 2nd edition, although I never dmed a 2e game, I have dmed in most of my 3rd edition games. There are two "regular dms" in my group so we have to switch on and off. Ironically I had always done games like this to keep things interesting. I've made them commanders in charge of armies, leaders of a young yet thriving ancient roman mafia, heroes from myths and interesting things. So I'm prepared for the different and making things ups on the spot. Sil - you were talking about how a risk is needed in order to have fun. Well as both a God and a judge I really don’t have too much to worry about, at least in the beginning but I’ll disprove your theory! ;) -Frosty But I'm Chaotic Evil! |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-30-04, 05:50 AM | The alignment guild I pick will be - The Guild of Law. Demonfey I will gladly take you on as Chief Prosecutor I believe I remember you saying that only the four core alignments would be open to the Sovs. That’s fine I chose law. That seemed the most "Remain neutral and give time for everyone to prosper" alignment. As for Dming experience...well I cant exactly put up such high numbers like Anglars and Sils 15 and 20 years of dming experience. 15-20 years ago my only love was drinking and I threw up a lot. These aren't great traits of a DM and the language barrier would have been a problem. However I've been playing since 2nd edition, although I never dmed a 2e game, I have dmed in most of my 3rd edition games. There are two "regular dms" in my group so we have to switch on and off. Ironically I had always done games like this to keep things interesting. I've made them commanders in charge of armies, leaders of a young yet thriving ancient roman mafia, heroes from myths and interesting things. So I'm prepared for the different and making things ups on the spot. Sil - you were talking about how a risk is needed in order to have fun. Well as both a God and a judge I really don’t have too much to worry about, at least in the beginning but I’ll disprove your theory! ;) -Frosty First off - my apologies the delay. It was a family occasion - my niece's birthday and - the day just vanished! OK good stuff everyone. Good to see you all! CONSULTATION PHASE IS OVER - time to get cracking Frostbite - Lawful through and through - You'll do a fantastic job! And we're right behind you. Anglar and I are "DMs" - his avatar should shape-shift soon. Silmarien bows before the Steward - whose Authority is beyond question. 1. Instructions to Frostbite: a. Cut some Laws - or Edicts - as you see fit, and post those at the Guild of Law - and at the Palace. b. As a Lawful Sovereign, think of yourself as the "engine" of the First Events. E.g. You might want to think about invading the diametrically opposed foundations. c. Do whatever you think a Steward should do, when you see trouble in the lands or on threads. Any foundations you invade, may of course, try to stop you (by forging alliances with other rebels/groups). 2. Instructions to All a. The Underdark is the source of Gold and Raw Materials in the world. (see Underdark thread). a. Characters must vie for access to those materials. Your GM's will manage the conflict. c. But post your characters at the Character's threads FIRST. d. Start forging alliances with Foundations of your choice, using Foundation Actions (see rules thread). e. Once you have gold, metals, etc, you can then create arms, weapons, magic items (that are in accordance with your Foundation's Opening Post (so you may wish to modify your Foundation's opening post). f. Note. We need a volunteer for the new Combat thread 3. Your GMs Will keep help you get into gear, and also provide you with NPC surprises, and so on. 4. The Judges a. Assign Combat Points and Experience as you see fit, within your discretion 5. About LAs ECLs, tiers of competition, experience points, hit point and ability points. The discussion for these things is now moving to the META thread. This is the *last chance for you to ask questions on this thread* I will wait another 12 hours - and if by then, no more questions, I'm going to contact WizO Shadow and ask her to close the thread. PLEASE POST YOUR GENERAL COMMENTS, tid-bits, hollers, cookies, hello's, well wishes, grizzles or otherwise in the mean time. I will cut an "Opening Story" VERY VERY SOON!! Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo EDIT - Discussion is on the META thread for PC stuff. |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-30-04, 06:22 AM | PS - if your foundation is invaded by the sovereign's forces, you only have your PC's at this stage to defend yourselves with. That is, you FOUNDATION HAS ZERO WEALTH AND ZERO COMBAT POINTS. But you have your PC and personal wealth. But - THE FIRST GROUP TO ACCESS GOLD FROM THE UNDERDARK CAN MANUFACTURE goods. And IF you have manufactured goods, you can battle the Sovereign's forces with those as well. Anyone can go after the Steward, when they feel they are ready. Do you have any questions? stav |
| Tenzhi10-30-04, 07:09 AM | 4. The Judges a. Assign Combat Points and Experience as you see fit, within your discretion Certainly. No solid idea of what Combat Points are, but here's an immediate 3 for anyone who isn't an elf (note: that was a facetious remark, not an actual ruling - yet). Heck, we don't even have a solid idea how actual combat is going to work yet. The discussion for these things is now moving to the PC thread. Certainly you're not referring to the character sheet thread, as that would be an irritating place to discuss such things seeing how it would disrupt the character records and all... |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-30-04, 07:19 AM | Certainly. No solid idea of what Combat Points are, but here's an immediate 3 for anyone who isn't an elf (note: that was a facetious remark, not an actual ruling - yet). Heck, we don't even have a solid idea how actual combat is going to work yet. :rofl: to the "elf" comment - ahh, the judging is in good hands! *cracks* Sil-Marsha: *pouts**swooshes hair* Oh tenzhi - how does that help me get ready for the prom? Viggo is here in 5 minutes. Sil-Seven-of-Nine-ian: Looks are irrelevant Marsha! Perfection is what matters. Sil-Lisa-Simpsonian: No! Perfection is impossible Seven. It's the voice of the People that matter most. Mr Burns must be stopped! Sil-Mr-Burns-ian: Now Lisa - what sort of an attitude is that for the man who pays your father's salary! Actual combat - we'll worry about once we have a combat thread - and we'll make it up as we go!!! (and then cross-discuss on metathread) Certainly you're not referring to the character sheet thread, as that would be an irritating place to discuss such things seeing how it would disrupt the character records and all... Hmm, OK! Let's move the PC discussion to the META thread then - Stav |
| Tenzhi10-30-04, 07:26 AM | But you still didn't answer what Combat Points are... :P Are they military points for Foundations or something awarded to individuals? Are they rewards? The mind is boggled. Woe is the mind. Pie Iesu Domine, dona E es requiem ::THWACK!:: |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-30-04, 07:48 AM | But you still didn't answer what Combat Points are... :P Are they military points for Foundations or something awarded to individuals? Are they rewards? The mind is boggled. Woe is the mind. Pie Iesu Domine, dona E es requiem ::THWACK!:: *looks sheepish* erm....not exactly sure ;) OK - Combat Points: In spirit, like Hit Points, but are a function of: Amount of Spells available (manufactured spells) Amount of Artifacts available (ditto) Number of NPC communities secured Number of swords manufactured Equivalent powers created from raw materials. Perhaps - 1 combat point per spell level available (e.g. 9 for a ninth level spell) 1 combat point per NPC person available (double it when armed) 1 combat point per power per level? suggestions? |
| Tenzhi10-30-04, 08:10 AM | So it is, in fact, a measure of the military/magick effectiveness of a Foundation rather than an individual? Hrm... |
| JackRipper10-30-04, 10:14 AM | Perhaps - 1 combat point per spell level available (e.g. 9 for a ninth level spell) 1 combat point per NPC person available (double it when armed) 1 combat point per power per level? suggestions? Up until now I've been unsure of how to manage the combat points, but I think it is simply impossible to create any kind of definitive rules on them like the ones you represent here. The reason? God knows what a foundation can come up with to create. Maybe they go and create feats, skills, catapults, city defenses like walls, I can continue forever... And an infinite amount of possibilities for creations would need an infinite amount of these rules: impossible. So these difficult considerations will have to be done entirely by the wisdom of the judges. The best you can do is construct guidelines on what kind of things would help best in battles and what kind of things are simply useless in a given battle. Again, it is quite difficult for the judges to do, but like everything in life: practice and learn. After a while the value of 1combat point will become something more then 1 separate entity and things will improve. So my advice; guidelines will have to do, as it is impossible to make rules. In these guidelines should be mentioned that combat points can only be adjudicated per situation, as every situation is different and because of that the value of certain creations change (unless of course, smart thinking of one of the combatants changes this). E.g.: a wall is strong when an army approaches without any siege weaponry, and the wall will weigh heavy on combat points in that battle, but when another army attacks and it brings along masses of siege weapons, the combat points given by the wall dramatically decrease. The judges should concider all of these effects seperately, and after the battle compare the results of cumulated combat points of both sides. The side with the most combat points should then win the battle and receive the combat points it gathered during the battle. Or maybe, it would be more fair if the winner would receive the combat points the loser got during the battle, as that would provide a system a bit similar to cr-ratings. It is entirely up to how you look at that. After that, roleplaying combat points should still be distributed, entirely indepent of the combat points gathered through the fighting itself. This should of course be done totally at the judges' discretion, with the already made guidelines, as I think they are excellent. This is as I would do it. What do you think? |
| Silmarien Aldalome10-30-04, 07:16 PM | Hi there Tenzhi. Hadda think about your comment. Not too "war-ish"...i think, we need to have it "D&Dish". So, jackripper's Judging guidelines are a good idea. And Power Points is a better concept, but it's reserved for psionics, so, I thought Influence Points (IP) is a better notion. This would subsume more than just raw arms and war stuff. It might include things like 1. How well organised your foundation is (e.g. do you have an organised group, like a Diplomatic Mission's Party? Do you have good relations and organised relations with members of the King's Court? Are you a trusted Advisor of the king? Are you a powerful lobby group? 2. Have you got NPC people on side? 3. Do you have trading routes with other Foundations and NPC groups 4. Have you got a long or short list of allies (Elrond to Gandalf, LotR "our list of Allies grows thin and the strength of men has failed") 5. Have you got an Artifact (there'd be A LOT of Influence Points for an Artifact) 6. Have you :censored: off the wrong people and are being hounded? 7. How much like a 'smooth running machine' is your foundation? 8. But - the objective IP allocations are about your D&D like products on your foundations. Spells, swords (exact numbers), armour, etc, can be given fixed IP points So - it's a combination of things, in the Judges good hands :_ And - I'm happy for Judges to use their discretion and let's just leave it at that. You will find that as we go, we'll develop ideas about how to go. As we invent better ways of arranging it, we'll action those. That's what the meta thread's for.... ANY QUESTIONS...... |
| BronzeBeard10-30-04, 09:24 PM | First, A few questions that have'nt been answered, yet: 1. Foundation is represented as - Guild Or Country? 2. Do I have the permission as the rules-thread-keeper to alter and make up rules for games (while the game, and this is important, has not yet begun) prior to discussing them here? 3. Do we have, beside the Judges-Gods, any DM or GM? And if we do, what are their capabilities comparing to the Judges-Gods? 4. Do we have turns? How are they going? 5. What are the alignment threads are for? 6.What the :censored: is Combat Points? I need more info before posting the complete rules. I've just spent the day immersed in the scientific literature on risk perception. As has been pointed out by a number of writers, human beings need risk to find their lives interesting, to grow, and to expand their horizons. The child who takes their first step, is taking a risk. The person who gets up on stage for the first time is taking a risk. The adventurer in D&D with a cherished character, is taking a risk. That is, sadly, mostly untrue. You see, the whole point of playing D&D IS being able to do things you can't or you wouldn't do in real life. The main concept of D&D is being able NOT to take the risk WHILE doing your fantasic thing. Good morning everyone - erm, *scratches head* I mean good evening at your end What end? you send this when it was 12 am in my place. So - some children 'escape' mum's proximity earlier than others. My nephew was known as The Omen (after the movie) because he was constantly running away from his mum when she wasn't looking (she's a good mum, btw, it's just that Damien had an extra splash of 'risk-seeking' to his nature). Too much or too little on this domain causes problems. Too much leads to accidents. We also have pre-wired brain circuits for what's called "harm avoidance" and we all have different thresholds on this one as well. By this, what I mean is when we're very small, we reach for all sorts of things that can hurt us, like hot irons (I have a scar on my left hand from where I grabbed an iron as a 2 year old). That taught me a very primal lesson. We all have different "set points" or "thermostat settings" on a number of individual difference variables, such as harm avoidance, risk aversion, sensation seeking, pain tolerance, self-sacrifce and so on. The truth is, those variations come into play for us when we play D&D as well. Importantly, no one person has the 'right' combination of set-points. We're all interesting and different, but the same at the same time. Strange as it may sound, I score quite highly on harm-avoidance and self-sacrifice at the same time (if you think about it, that's a really conflicted combination). I'm cautious about putting my body at risk of harm. But, I'm also a very loyal person, and have gone into very scary places for good causes or to save lives (I can't say more about this, real world topics violate the CoC) except to say, that out of loyaty to a dear friend, I went to a wedding in a war zone, when everyone said I was mad. And secondly, what I can say is that I've crossed mountains in scary places because my friend was in dire need. And that I put myself at risk of death (by oxygen deprivation) to save her life. That was the longest 10 hours of my life after I sent my friend away to safety (in the only vehicle that wasn't trapped that I flagged down) and then waited - at 5,500 meters (that's about 20,000 feet) to either die or survive. But, I didn't acclimatize, I instead, went from 1600 meteres (3500 feet) to 20,000 feet in a few hours. For those of you who know anything about the human body - that's a very dangerous thing to do. But - it was for my friend. I would *never* do that sort of dumb thing just for thrills. I can still see the twinkling stars in the dizzy mountain heights, as I recall my laboured breathing. I am still best friends with that woman today. She is very grateful and we return to that place with fondness looking back. So - That still doesn't take place in imaginary or fantastic places or plays where WE (the players and the DM) are in control for every thing that happened or will be. for example, we don't care to loose a character (i.e. death) because WE KNOW that A. She exist only in our imagination and B. I can make another one 'cause I (the important part) stays alive fit and well. Your insticts get lost somewhere around the fact that it's only fiction. Like reading a book about heros wondering in the desert, thirsty but not going throught the same feeling. Hmm, OK! Let's move the PC discussion to the META thread then - How 'bout moving it into the, lets say... :rolleyes: the Rules thread?.... :looloo: Are they military points for Foundations or something awarded to individuals? Are they rewards? The mind is boggled. Woe is the mind. Up until now I've been unsure of how to manage the combat points, but I think it is simply impossible to create any kind of definitive rules on them like the ones you represent here. The reason? God knows what a foundation can come up with to create. Maybe they go and create feats, skills, catapults, city defenses like walls, I can continue forever... And an infinite amount of possibilities for creations would need an infinite amount of these rules: impossible. So these difficult considerations will have to be done entirely by the wisdom of the judges. The best you can do is construct guidelines on what kind of things would help best in battles and what kind of things are simply useless in a given battle. Again, it is quite difficult for the judges to do, but like everything in life: practice and learn. After a while the value of 1combat point will become something more then 1 separate entity and things will improve. Leave this to me. I think. I'll start writing the rules and by the time you guyz get an expirience you could PM me 'bout problems with the system and i'll fix it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- For now I have the following rules for combat: When war occure between 2 side each side sent his force of arms (F'A) into a physical encounter with the other side. His militant power is combined from the following: The own country's units. his allies units (it dependes on how much they were willing to send) and mercenerys he bought down at the nearest pub. Anyway, each unit he has in the army (the numbers of resouces like gold, for mercenerys, or timber, for seige weapons he needs are yet to determined or yet to be determined how to be determined) have 4 data numbers: - attack type - defence type - attack rate - defence rate (the first two datas are based on the WCIII units and the last two are based on the Magic: the Gathering). The stats are gathered together in order to estimate the power of your, current, army in battle. Lets say I have 30 units of barbarians, 4 units of magicians and 2 catapults - then I probably have the power of (attack type/attack rate): (30/F & 4/M & 2/S) = (30 stand for number of infantry units / F~footman, that's infantry attack type & 4 / M & 2 / S~that's catapult attack type, siege) Furthermore, My army can suffer (not regarding, for a moment, any panic or fear affect), before crambling down, (34/U & 2/C) = (34 ~ both the barbarians and the mages do net wear armor so they are grouped togheter in the Unarmored type / U ~ stands for Unarmored & 2 / C ~ the catapults defense type, construct) Ignoring how much damage my army inflicted the other nation, lets say he has done me (12/F & 3/S) damage (based on his cumulated attack rates). That will leave my army at (22/U & 0/C) defence rate with the casulties of 12 footman typed units and more than my catapult battelion (the actual number was supposed to be 3/S - 2/C = -1/C, but that cannot happen since it is unrealistic. Basicly, each unit attack's type should encouter anothers specific defence type (catapults against walls), partially encounter (magicians against consructs) or not at all (don't send footman against walls). Special, gods given prizes for best players could be defence upgrade for specific unit in your nation or etc. |
| Dyne10-30-04, 10:21 PM | For now I have the following rules for combat: When war occure between 2 side each side sent his force of arms (F'A) into a physical encounter with the other side. His militant power is combined from the following: The own country's units. his allies units (it dependes on how much they were willing to send) and mercenerys he bought down at the nearest pub. Anyway, each unit he has in the army (the numbers of resouces like gold, for mercenerys, or timber, for seige weapons he needs are yet to determined or yet to be determined how to be determined) have 4 data numbers: - attack type - defence type - attack rate - defence rate (the first two datas are based on the WCIII units and the last two are based on the Magic: the Gathering). The stats are gathered together in order to estimate the power of your, current, army in battle. Lets say I have 30 units of barbarians, 4 units of magicians and 2 catapults - then I probably have the power of (attack type/attack rate): (30/F & 4/M & 2/S) = (30 stand for number of infantry units / F~footman, that's infantry attack type & 4 / M & 2 / S~that's catapult attack type, siege) Furthermore, My army can suffer (not regarding, for a moment, any panic or fear affect), before crambling down, (34/U & 2/C) = (34 ~ both the barbarians and the mages do net wear armor so they are grouped togheter in the Unarmored type / U ~ stands for Unarmored & 2 / C ~ the catapults defense type, construct) Ignoring how much damage my army inflicted the other nation, lets say he has done me (12/F & 3/S) damage (based on his cumulated attack rates). That will leave my army at (22/U & 0/C) defence rate with the casulties of 12 footman typed units and more than my catapult battelion (the actual number was supposed to be 3/S - 2/C = -1/C, but that cannot happen since it is unrealistic. Basicly, each unit attack's type should encouter anothers specific defence type (catapults against walls), partially encounter (magicians against consructs) or not at all (don't send footman against walls). Special, gods given prizes for best players could be defence upgrade for specific unit in your nation or etc. This is all getting very complicated. First, we still haven't really figured out how we're gonna do this. We can do this in either of two ways: small-scale battle between guilds OR large-scale battle between countries. If we were to do it in small-scale, we could still have all the same basic stuff: our own PCs, footsoldiers (hirelings), defensive structures (walls and such), and siege engines to attack the defensive structures. In large-scale, the only difference would be that there would be hundreds (if not thousands) of combatants in each battle. So, the focus would change from the PCs to the masses of soldiers, and we would need entirely new rules to handle these massive numbers. Large-scale battles are fine and dandy, but they're hard enough to do in our regular campaigns. Battling them out over the message boards is WAY more difficult. I think the rules BronzeBeard is creating are awesome, but I'd like the focus to stay on D&D. We could still hire lower-level mercenaries for our footsoldiers, we could make some walls around our strongholds, and we could have a handful of siege engines to attack the walls. It wouldn't take hundreds of die rolls to get through a single round (unless everyone hired hundreds of little 1st-level mercenaries, and that would be just stupid). It would only take a few die rolls to get through the PCs, we would have lower-level characters to support our main characters, and it would only take a few die rolls for our siege engines to attack the walls. All this, and we wouldn't have to make up a whole new rules set. As for Combat Points, Influence Points, and so on. First, we need something to measure our gold. We need to figure out how much gold the different locations produce, how much gold the different items, spells, feats, and so on that we are creating at the foundations will cost. And we need to figure out how much time it will take to research the spells, feats, PrC's, and whatnot. I think in the DMG it says how much time and money it takes to research new spells, and we could come up with a system for feats, PrC's, and whatever. Artifacts, in my opinion, shouldn't be able to just be created by the foundations. Afterall, mere mortals can't create artifacts. Instead, my idea is that the judges take the artifacts made up by the foundations and place them in different locations (appropriate to the artifact, of course). The foundations would have to find the artifacts, and maybe foundations could trade artifacts to other foundations who would have more of a use for them (for a price, of course). As for Combat Points and Influence Points. I don't think they are necessary unless we are going for the large-scale style game. In that case, Combat Points should measure a group's combat power. I'm not sure about Influence Points. |
| king_of_evil00710-30-04, 10:23 PM | Bronzebeard: My apologies, but your combat system is far too confusing. Here's how I always thought it would be played out... Combat points are a general measure of a Foundation's Power dispensable at that time. Forces, defenses, whatever's needed. Just a general, non-specific use. Armies are very. . . hmm, I can't think of the right word. In other words, it isn't tough calculations and such . . . Let's say Foundation 1 attacks Foundation 2. F1 has 30 CP to spend, F2 only has 20. F1 spends all 30 CP, F2 spends all 20. However, we know that from previous interactions that F2's army it three times the size of F1's, and they're all waiting at home for F1. The judges determine that F2's army is victorious, but loses 2/3 of their troops, while F1 gets nearly completely devastated, despite the use of extra combat points. F1 does manage to destroy a bit of F2's defenses, and F2 has to spend labour points (we still using those) to rebuild them or suffer the consequences later. In other words, it's not "rules" but more like the judges impartially determining the results. I wouldn't mind rules, but since I never saw any before today, I assumed that's how we were doing that. BB, yours look too complicated, IMO. |
| BronzeBeard10-30-04, 10:53 PM | If they were too complicated then I apologize, that wasn't my intent. I thought of this rules in a split of second. Your system reminds me the one I saw after Von Crown had pinpointed me towards some sources. Anyway, I could either try to simplify this or try to find other method your pick. I appreciate Dyne for his words, but as I said - we can't, in the current settings make a large scale (at least, not me) battle that still follows the rules of D&D. I regret to say that the option, KoE, you have pointed out wouldn't be my choice in the case. It just gives too much power, way too much in the hands of the god's mood or feelings towards the players. Objectivity is ruined by that move. As for Foundations, I have a new Idea: How about a pool of points, once you start your foundation and you spend them to enchance the place where your nation is based upon. For example, I choose to run the Yakunli nation, I have 1000 points in my pool to build the land for my nation. So I decide that I'll spend X points on the resources of timber, blue crystal and fish. Spend Y points on gold and Iron and no points left for wheat and etc. So now I have X quantity of timber, blue crystal and fish in my domain. Y's of Gold and Iron. But not anything else. Plus I'de like to buy this and that tech with the rest of my points. Now I choose the type of land: Mountains which gives me bonuses at the gold and Iron but penaltys at fish and wheat. Do you get me? |
| Dyne10-30-04, 11:02 PM | I appreciate Dyne for his words, but as I said - we can't, in the current settings make a large scale (at least, not me) battle that still follows the rules of D&D. That was one of my points. We can't make a large-scale battle that follows the D&D rules. We'd need a whole new set of rules, and it would take a lot of work to work everything out. Small-scale battles would be much easier to handle, and they would focus more on the PC's (us). The only real difference between small-scale and large-scale is that there are more troops, resources, etc. IMHO, we don't need all that stuff. We could still have the same elements of large-scale battle in small-scale battle: Commanders (PC's), footsoldiers (mercenary hirelings), walls, and siege engines. We would just have LESS of everything i.e. *A handful of PC's *Maybe 10 hirelings *A set of walls for the defenders (which could give them cover because of the crenallations while forcing the attackers to either focus on one point (the gate) or to use a difficult tactic to overcome the wall (siege tower or ladders)) *A siege engine or two for the attackers (to attack the wall)). This is why I am in support of small-scale battles for the IFWG. Your rules are awesome, BronzeBeard, but it'll be too much work to adapt them to the Foundation Wars. |
| BronzeBeard10-30-04, 11:08 PM | Are you suggesting a smaller battle-scale or are you in favor of the Guild-Based-Foundation method? |
| Dyne10-30-04, 11:13 PM | Are you suggesting a smaller battle-scale or are you in favor of the Guild-Based-Foundation method? Both. Technically, we all ARE guilds, so it doesn't make much sense to me for us all to be represented by countries. We could still have warfare, in a sense, but we just wouldn't have hundreds or thousands or soldiers. We would just have our characters and there equipment, with a few mercenaries we hired. We'd also spend money for a stronghold (a Keep, a Mansion, or a Castle from the DMG), with defenses (Towers and Walls) (maybe the different foundations SHOULD start off with a little gold for all this stuff). There are already rules and costs for all this stuff in D&D terms, so we would't have to create a whole new set of rules. We'd just be using existing rules. |
| BronzeBeard10-31-04, 06:24 AM | Both. Technically, we all ARE guilds, so it doesn't make much sense to me for us all to be represented by countries. We could still have warfare, in a sense, but we just wouldn't have hundreds or thousands or soldiers. We would just have our characters and there equipment, with a few mercenaries we hired. We'd also spend money for a stronghold (a Keep, a Mansion, or a Castle from the DMG), with defenses (Towers and Walls) (maybe the different foundations SHOULD start off with a little gold for all this stuff). There are already rules and costs for all this stuff in D&D terms, so we would't have to create a whole new set of rules. We'd just be using existing rules. Perhaps, but the existace of Foundation as Guilds eliminate any: A. Country 2 Country complex politics. (the diplomatic relations turns to be something you tell your foundation's members qwhat to do or not to do). B. Wars, as they devolve into simple hit n' run tactics acting as opposing gangs in a mid 15th century town. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart10-31-04, 12:20 PM | As for Foundations, I have a new Idea: How about a pool of points, once you start your foundation and you spend them to enchance the place where your nation is based upon. For example, I choose to run the Yakunli nation, I have 1000 points in my pool to build the land for my nation. So I decide that I'll spend X points on the resources of timber, blue crystal and fish. Spend Y points on gold and Iron and no points left for wheat and etc. So now I have X quantity of timber, blue crystal and fish in my domain. Y's of Gold and Iron. But not anything else. Plus I'de like to buy this and that tech with the rest of my points. Now I choose the type of land: Mountains which gives me bonuses at the gold and Iron but penaltys at fish and wheat. Do you get me? Hmm I like were this idea is going... Heres my idea on "power points" in place of combat points or anything else. A Foundation will start with X amount of points. These points can be used kinda like Gold almost but rather to "DO" things. These points will be used to secure fortresses, mountains, fields ect. The resources of the world. Once we figure out what the resources are we will use the power points to "capture" any nearby ones. So first we need to think up how many resources there will be. Food, Gold, timber ect. Then we need to assign how many resources you get per turn for each different terran/area. Then we need to assign how many power points it takes to start off with these resources and/or fortresses. Then we need to assign how much gold each city produces and/or how many points to upgrade/buy a city. THEN we need to discover both later ingame uses of power points (such as you need a certin amount to invent a spell, create a magical item "guild size" or an artifact w/e) and then finally we need to figure out how to make power points a resources. THEN we might want to create unique things such as "Fairy ponds" or "Ice Caves" ect which are unique and give you somthing unique as well. |
| JackRipper10-31-04, 01:02 PM | In the following post I have written out my entire perception on what this game should and shouldn't be. It is long, I know, but I'm a rambler without equal ;) and it is literally everything from my view of the game's theme to the rules on economics, combats and judges. I hope it will be of help. Perhaps, but the existace of Foundation as Guilds eliminate any: A. Country 2 Country complex politics. (the diplomatic relations turns to be something you tell your foundation's members qwhat to do or not to do). B. Wars, as they devolve into simple hit n' run tactics acting as opposing gangs in a mid 15th century town. I know of a game, which is, compared to D&D and such, relatively easy to play. I don't know if any of you know it as well, but it is called 'Machiavelli', named after an Italian philosopher who wrote about politics and maintaining the power you have. To tell you the truth, this was not something to be taken lightly, as many factions always strife for power, and the monarch had always to be on guard for any opposers who seeked to seize the throne. This is what this particular game was all about: several factions in a monarchy striving for power in the society. (keep in mind that medieval Italy was no true kingdom: it was dotted with many city-states, so each city-state has it's own INTERNAL politics, not only inter-city-states!) In this game, each player had to choose a character. The options were: - Thief - Assassin - King - Merchant - Labourer - Priest - condottiere (a leader of mercenary armies in medieval Italy) All of these characters gave specific powers to the player that chose them, and they had to use their powers each turn to oppose eachother and gain gold to expand their power. With the gold they could build buildings, and with the building of enough buildings one would eventually win, and be the most cunning and wise politician. This is in a way how I would like to see this IFGW. The characters mentioned above represent the many foundations, all fighting for the power of the society, basically a city-state. Only the king character named above would be something else: the king is the sovereign, basically ruling over the city-state and trying to prevent the others from taking over, and at the same time persuing its own personal agenda. As has been said, every such character has its own powers to oppose the others, and so will the foundations have theirs: e.g. a fighter foundation will have the option to create warrior-based tools to gain control of the sovereigns' position, while the assasin's foundation will have its own, obvious, powers to make their way to the notorious golden chair. Next, in the game the clever usage of these powers will grant the character wealth. So will this be with the foundations: to continue with the same examples, the fighters will conquer a mine and the assasins will kill the head of the mine and gain control in more subtle ways. Now, they are on their way to make money. In the game 'Machiavelli', money is the only resource, basically covering up everything, like wood, iron, stone etc. We should do this in this game too, and instead of having an iron mine produce iron, have it produce gold, for simplicity's sake. Of course, that means the creation of certain things foundations would like to build must only cost gold, so a catapult would cost gold, not such things as wood, iron, etc., as these are only difficult to include. Now, every foundation will build their own creations and use their foundation's given powers to vie for control. The goals foundations set for themselves should be free, but I think a certain bonus should be given to those who can make it their way to become the sovereign, like a really steady income of combat points and gold. This way, and only this way, can we encourage the foundations to truly become opponents on their way to absolute power. The sovereign will have to be REALLY aware of his ally/enemy-list.THAT is the spirit of the game I would like. And now, to get to the point, the scale should be, to achieve the view I have of this game, small-scale. Only the sovereign might have a true force worthy to fight true battles that go inter-city-state. But we, as the foundations, will just have to take it that we are not powerful enough to compete on that scale, and we are likewise not powerful enough (unless an alliance is made or something, but then it is still dubious) to confront the sovereign with an open battle. BUT, we have our own ways. We can assasinate the king, we can buy out or gain the favor of his very own army, etc., and maybe, if one foundation will truly become powerful, he might try to make it for a battle. This may sound like the sovereign is just so powerful it might even be unrivaled most of the time, but really; that is how it should be in my opinion. Now, to achieve this, two major stats will have to be present: -Gold -Combat Points Gold is, in essence, also labour points as we know it in our current system. Without gold, you can't build. That was the same with labour points. Instead of having to gain both labour points and gold, you only have to gain gold; much easier (I remember someone mentioning KIS). This can be done with trade, locations, being sovereign (if what I previously said will be), and everything you can basically think of. Don't think that in that case building takes no time anymore, because labour points have gone. The gathering of enough gold will be a time-consuming process on its own, the building is simply included in that time. Now, things are being build. When things are being build, just like in Machiavelli, power will increase. With power comes the ability to influence others without having their agreeance - war, assasination, kidnapping, stealing, etc. The strength you have to enforce this ability is basically what Combat points should be. So this also means that combat points = that which has been build by the foundation to gain power. In any given attempt to enforce this ability (e.g. a combat, an assasination), the combat points that matter in this confrontation should be taken into consideration. Now, say a guild (thus no country) has created, with gold, 20 soldiers, 1 keep, 1 siege ram and 5bodyguards for the guild head, and they attack another guild with 15 soldiers, 1 keep, 5 siege rams and 1 assasin. The judges have already decided, after the creation of these things, what combat points each unit represents, taking into consideration the gold that went into the creation. Now, the players choose what they will use for this battle: it is obvious that the attacker won't be able to use the keep and thus the combat points given by it, but they also leave the bodyguards out of the battle. This gives them the combat points of twenty soldiers and a siege ram. The defender decides to use its keep, its 15soldiers, and that's it. For these, and only these, will it gain combat points. The battle will begin and the judges will decide, according to the guidelines I gave earlier (see quote if you haven't read them yet), who will win the battle, and what reward of combat points (though maybe this reward should change to a gold reward instead) will be granted to both parties for victory and flavour. So my advice; guidelines will have to do, as it is impossible to make rules. In these guidelines should be mentioned that combat points can only be adjudicated per situation, as every situation is different and because of that the value of certain creations change (unless of course, smart thinking of one of the combatants changes this). E.g.: a wall is strong when an army approaches without any siege weaponry, and the wall will weigh heavy on combat points in that battle, but when another army attacks and it brings along masses of siege weapons, the combat points given by the wall dramatically decrease. The judges should concider all of these effects seperately, and after the battle compare the results of cumulated combat points of both sides. The side with the most combat points should then win the battle and receive the combat points it gathered during the battle. Or maybe, it would be more fair if the winner would receive the combat points the loser got during the battle, as that would provide a system a bit similar to cr-ratings. It is entirely up to how you look at that. After that, roleplaying combat points should still be distributed, entirely indepent of the combat points gathered through the fighting itself. This should of course be done totally at the judges' discretion, with the already made guidelines, as I think they are excellent. Now, let's assume the defender won. Of course, it wants revenge, and its enemy is seriously weakened. Only 5 bodyguards and a keep remain to defend their guild head, and they still have an assasin! What do they do? They send the assasin to attack their guild head, so the assasin's combat points are all this attack will have, but a succes would be great, and one assasin more or less is worth the risk. The defender will have the combat points of both the keep and the 5bodyguards, and the judges will decide if these defenders are good at defending against an assasin (and thus decide wether combat point value of any defendering units or perhaps of the attacking assasin should be altered). The assasination's outcome will be decided after this, by the judges, according to the guidelines, and rewards will follow. Now, all that remains in the inclusion of player characters. These too, should be given value in combat points, perhaps according to their character level, and according to the situation (see guidelines). It is up to the player of the pc's to decide if they will choose to participate in any given confrontation. |
| Dyne10-31-04, 05:03 PM | You have some very good ideas, JackRipper, but I'd like the focus to be D&D (since these ARE D&D boards). Perhaps, but the existace of Foundation as Guilds eliminate any: A. Country 2 Country complex politics. (the diplomatic relations turns to be something you tell your foundation's members qwhat to do or not to do). B. Wars, as they devolve into simple hit n' run tactics acting as opposing gangs in a mid 15th century town. The Politics and the Warfare would be the same, just on a smaller scale. Instead of Country-to-Country, we'd have Foundation-to-Foundation (which is what the IFWG is all about). Wars, instead of being hundreds or thousands of soldiers, would be fought by a smaller number of characters. We could still have castle sieges and open field battles, they just wouldn't be as complex. A siege would be composed of a handful of PC's, their mercenaries, and a few siege engines. The defenders would use whatever forces they had at the castle. Open battles would still be composed of the PC's and their mercenaries. We could still have horsemen, archers, swordsmen, spearmen, and everything else. We would just have LESS of them. For small-scale, we could do this in either of two ways: Each foundation is an influential guild in a large city, trying to take over control of the city. Each foundation is either based in a different city, or based outside a city entirely. Each foundation is trying to overthrow the monarch of the kingdom, or trying to stop the others from overthrowing the monarch (depending on their stance towards the monarch). The second possibility might not be totally realistic to our ideas of medieval warfare, but we could make it work with the current D&D rules. The main focus of this shouldn't be to fight battles between thousands of soldiers, but to interact with other foundations and to compete against them. |
| BronzeBeard11-01-04, 04:04 AM | Heres my idea on "power points" in place of combat points or anything else. A Foundation will start with X amount of points. These points can be used kinda like Gold almost but rather to "DO" things. These points will be used to secure fortresses, mountains, fields ect. The resources of the world. Once we figure out what the resources are we will use the power points to "capture" any nearby ones. Labor Points... So first we need to think up how many resources there will be. Food, Gold, timber ect. THEN we might want to create unique things such as "Fairy ponds" or "Ice Caves" ect which are unique and give you somthing unique as well. The unique things are cool! :thumbsup: I have 4 arranges for the resources: Most complex, consist of every possible (without pushing it) resource we need - 3 types of food (fish, cattle, wheat), iron, gold, jewelery, magic crystal, etc. Grouped - each title represent the aspect of different goods, such as - food (any type of thing you need for your citizens to eat), metal (any iron, bronze, and stuff that we need for building weapons and the like), wood (large group for building and siege-engineering such as timber and bricks) and gold. Prime - Only gold. Jack and the others: listen, the guilds were talking about (Wars, instead of being hundreds or thousands of soldiers, would be fought by a smaller number of characters. We could still have castle sieges and open field battles, they just wouldn't be as complex. A siege would be composed of a handful of PC's, their mercenaries, and a few siege engines. The defenders would use whatever forces they had at the castle. Open battles would still be composed of the PC's and their mercenaries. We could still have horsemen, archers, swordsmen, spearmen, and everything else. We would just have LESS of them.) is in complete contrast to the country idea. there is NO keep to a guild and NO lands and NO resources and, especially, no other peoples beside the guild members. So, doing something like this: They send the assasin to attack their guild head, so the assasin's combat points are all this attack will have, but a succes would be great, and one assasin more or less is worth the risk. The defender will have the combat points of both the keep and the 5bodyguards, and the judges will decide if these defenders are good at defending against an assasin (and thus decide wether combat point value of any defendering units or perhaps of the attacking assasin should be altered). The assasination's outcome will be decided after this, by the judges, according to the guidelines, and rewards will follow. Is, basiclly, sending a player to do something. |
| JackRipper11-01-04, 04:05 AM | Dyne, thanks, and I agree with your entire post, but I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by 'having the focus on D&D'. Cause I don't see why any of my ideas differed very much from the Foundation-to-Foundation idea you mentioned, and that is, as you said, what the IFGW is all about. Could you explain what you mean precisely with D&D focus and in what way my ideas were different from that? That way we can talk further. EDIT: just read your post BB, but gotta go to school. I'll reply later. |
| JackRipper11-01-04, 05:50 AM | is in complete contrast to the country idea. there is NO keep to a guild and NO lands and NO resources and, especially, no other peoples beside the guild members. Perhaps my example "keep" and such might seem like leaning to the country-to-country-type game, but I can imagine, even if we wish a low-scale kinda' game, with guilds in a single city (which I am in favour of), then in any given time a foundation would want to build itself a protected home base. That is what I mend with keep. A keep doesn't immediately have to refer to entire countries fighting eachother; why shouldn't a guild in a city that becomes very powerful not be able to build such a construction? Money and power will give you anything if you have it. The only reason in this matter when a keep can't be constructed, is because the higher authority (the sovereign) forbids it, and even then the guild can ignore it and let it come to a conflict. What I'm saying is that 'keep' doesn't immediately mean 'country-vs-country'. Again; I too am in favour of guild-vs-guild-style, so a low scale with armies not often reaching the hundreds (except when the sovereign interferes of course). Is, basiclly, sending a player to do something. No, in my ideas, it CAN be a player character, or it can be an imagenary creation purchased by gold by the foundation. It all depends on what the foundation prefers and what it has at hand: if a player volunteers to put his character at risk to do this, it is fine, but if the foundation has created something to do it for them, that's fine too. The chances of succes then depend on wether the character that was send is well-suited for such missions; is the character a character with high ranks in hide and such? Is it a character with the rogue/assasin class? But that is up to the judges. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 09:04 PM | Hello thar, everyone. Just finished a dreadful report - doing a catch up. Thanx for the great work and posts. First, A few questions that have'nt been answered, yet: 1. Foundation is represented as - Guild Or Country? 2. Do I have the permission as the rules-thread-keeper to alter and make up rules for games (while the game, and this is important, has not yet begun) prior to discussing them here? 3. Do we have, beside the Judges-Gods, any DM or GM? And if we do, what are their capabilities comparing to the Judges-Gods? 4. Do we have turns? How are they going? 5. What are the alignment threads are for? 6.What the :censored: is Combat Points? I need more info before posting the complete rules. For 1: it's either - depending on your wOnt. But - remember - it's harder to upkeep a big place, compared to a smaller one. So, you'll be more vulnerable in a country, and you'll have to fight for it to wrest lands from the King. 2: you should discuss changes or ideas on the meta thread. That way, we can all continue to work together. 3. Yes we *do* have GMs as well - the jurisdiction of the GM is a. To introduce NPC communties, events, powers and surprises (as a good DM should). b. To intercede if the game needs guidance. A GM won't overule a Judge - EVER - *unless* it is very clear that a Judge has gone rogue and is misusing her discretion. *looks at Tenzhi* That is very UNLIKELY with Tenzhi on board, who is eternally measured. c. To post NPC *Divine Actions* as IS appropriate. About risk Actually BB - your PCs take enourmous risks in D&D. That's what being exposed to a fireball is all about, and likewise, why there are over 15 ways of raising the dead. D&D is a high-risk experience for a PC - and that's what makes it fun. That still doesn't take place in imaginary or fantastic places or plays where WE (the players and the DM) are in control for every thing that happened or will be. There are special rules in D&D core rules about gentle (or ungentle) reminders to players. The core message is that there's always something bigger than you in D&D - and DMs use that in their games. In fact, the rules are explicit, on characters who get too upity and think they're masters of the universe. *splat* Corellan's mallet just flattened your character. I'll check out the rest of your post in a separate post. GOOD STUFF!!!!! Best Regards stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 09:14 PM | How 'bout moving it into the, lets say... :rolleyes: the Rules thread?.... :looloo: You just want activity on your thread *winks* - we're not going to make a messy-mess of the Rules thread. But, truly I don't really care where the discussion about rules it. ---------------------------------------------------------------- For now I have the following rules for combat: When war occure between 2 side each side sent his force of arms (F'A) into a physical encounter with the other side. His militant power is combined from the following: The own country's units. his allies units (it dependes on how much they were willing to send) and mercenerys he bought down at the nearest pub. Anyway, each unit he has in the army (the numbers of resouces like gold, for mercenerys, or timber, for seige weapons he needs are yet to determined or yet to be determined how to be determined) have 4 data numbers: - attack type - defence type - attack rate - defence rate These concepts are sound, but the stats for playing them need to many symbols. The K.I.S.S. test applies. We can keep the above, but we need a simpler way of unrolling it. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 09:30 PM | Bronzebeard: My apologies, but your combat system is far too confusing. Here's how I always thought it would be played out... Combat points are a general measure of a Foundation's Power dispensable at that time. Forces, defenses, whatever's needed. Just a general, non-specific use. Armies are very. . . hmm, I can't think of the right word. In other words, it isn't tough calculations and such . . . Let's say Foundation 1 attacks Foundation 2. F1 has 30 CP to spend, F2 only has 20. F1 spends all 30 CP, F2 spends all 20. However, we know that from previous interactions that F2's army it three times the size of F1's, and they're all waiting at home for F1. The judges determine that F2's army is victorious, but loses 2/3 of their troops, while F1 gets nearly completely devastated, despite the use of extra combat points. F1 does manage to destroy a bit of F2's defenses, and F2 has to spend labour points (we still using those) to rebuild them or suffer the consequences later. In other words, it's not "rules" but more like the judges impartially determining the results. I wouldn't mind rules, but since I never saw any before today, I assumed that's how we were doing that. BB, yours look too complicated, IMO. Sensible for its simplicity - but I haven't read the subsequent posts yet. Yes about Judges assistance. Your Influence Points (re-named from Combat Points) are allocated by the Judges. @All If you want more on the concept of Influence and how the Judges will measure it - please have a read on the Judge's thread..... Attending to next post.... |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 09:34 PM | That was one of my points. We can't make a large-scale battle that follows the D&D rules. We'd need a whole new set of rules, and it would take a lot of work to work everything out. Small-scale battles would be much easier to handle, and they would focus more on the PC's (us). The only real difference between small-scale and large-scale is that there are more troops, resources, etc. IMHO, we don't need all that stuff. We could still have the same elements of large-scale battle in small-scale battle: Commanders (PC's), footsoldiers (mercenary hirelings), walls, and siege engines. We would just have LESS of everything i.e. *A handful of PC's *Maybe 10 hirelings *A set of walls for the defenders (which could give them cover because of the crenallations while forcing the attackers to either focus on one point (the gate) or to use a difficult tactic to overcome the wall (siege tower or ladders)) *A siege engine or two for the attackers (to attack the wall)). This is why I am in support of small-scale battles for the IFWG. Your rules are awesome, BronzeBeard, but it'll be too much work to adapt them to the Foundation Wars. Good point Dyne - hmm, @all - let's trust the Judges to assist us. Again, the concept of Influence Points is useful. Subjective Influence (your relationship with the King, your relationships with your Allies) Objective Influence (your artifacts, powers, spells, and spellcasters). Note that on the Underdark thread (our Gold source) there are NPCs Remember - I've posted earlier about number of 20th level wizards in NPC groups per 1000 NPCs *grins* stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 09:39 PM | Hi there Frosty!!! Interesting post. Once we figure out what the resources are we will use the power points to "capture" any nearby ones. So first we need to think up how many resources there will be. Food, Gold, timber ect. Then we need to assign how many resources you get per turn for each different terran/area. Then we need to assign how many power points it takes to start off with these resources and/or fortresses. YES YES. Hmm I like were this idea is going... Heres my idea on "power points" in place of combat points or anything else. Influence Points A Foundation will start with X amount of points. These points can be used kinda like Gold almost but rather to "DO" things. These points will be used to secure fortresses, mountains, fields ect. The resources of the world. You all have personal resources and personal wealth only at this stage. Your Guilds need to VIE for these things on the Underdark thread - where you will interact with NPC communities and forge alliances. The Foundations with access to Gold - can BUILD quickly. Those who don't - will have to be VERY INVENTIVE (e.g. use the epionage Foundation Actions!! - Judges will determine success versus failure for your attempts to steal another foundation's artifacts or whatever) |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 09:50 PM | Now, every foundation will build their own creations and use their foundation's given powers to vie for control. The goals foundations set for themselves should be free, but I think a certain bonus should be given to those who can make it their way to become the sovereign, like a really steady income of combat points and gold. This way, and only this way, can we encourage the foundations to truly become opponents on their way to absolute power. The sovereign will have to be REALLY aware of his ally/enemy-list.THAT is the spirit of the game I would like. YES YES. This is in the spirit. The rest of your materials are also really good too. @All. With the KISS standard Use any and all of the ideas above in your posts (within the IFWG Rules) and post onto the NPC thread. Thus, many of you from many foundations will meet up with each other as either combatants or allies and you will have to open up trade corridors with the influential people on the Underdark thread..... I'll stop here - and wait for your questions - let me know if I've missed something... regards stav |
| necrodude1611-01-04, 09:53 PM | are judges gods??? |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 09:59 PM | are judges gods??? Important point to understand: We don't want to cheapen gods by having them appear 24 7. I want to hear from Anglar about this. Also - the idea is that PCs are to aspire to godhood - and to re-shape the lands. Has everyone seen thasis's vision of The Throne - it's fantastically creepy!! stav |
| anglar11-01-04, 10:05 PM | Time for me to chime in. Sorry for this taking as long as it did, but I wanted to read the other posts before I did this. Each Guild being in it's own "country" - I can go along with this concept. As much as we want to keep this as core D&D as possible, I can't help but fall back on Axis and Allies as a model. Going along with the idea that each Foundation would start with a set number of Creation Points and gain CP's at set intervals, each week, I can see setting things at CP prices for the Foundations to create items and forces during the event. I agree with the defense/attack ratings system. One thing I think we can do is set up each Foundation with with a number of occupied areas along with a number of unoccupied areas moderated by the DMs until a Foundation can stretch its reach to those areas. It will take resources to bring an area in, but each new occupied area would increase the number of CPs the foudation would receive at payout time. By doing this, we could give everyone a few test runs and try to work out the bugs in the system before we eventually get into inter-Foundation conflicts, which is where the fun would begin. As best I can describe it, it would be like a game of A&A, but hopefully with more political intrigue and private RPing for even greater fun. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 10:09 PM | Welcome Ang - @all ANGLAR IS A SECOND GM. Take it as a DM until the Avatar shape-shifts. Anglar and I will strategise privately in PM mode - and we will also be an engine for game developments. Ang - do you think Judges should be Deities (In-Game) or not? stav |
| anglar11-01-04, 10:13 PM | Important point to understand: We don't want to cheapen gods by having them appear 24 7. I want to hear from Anglar about this. Also - the idea is that PCs are to aspire to godhood - and to re-shape the lands. Has everyone seen thasis's vision of The Throne - it's fantastically creepy!! stav Judges are ultimate, but if you honestly feel that a judge has made a wrong decision, then I would urge you to appeal to a DM (over deity?) The gods in general, bad IMO to have them be here above sparingly. Who has any fun if when deity #1 doens't like what happened and intervenes only to have deity #2 step in and so on. Then the player become nothing more than puppets. Apsiration to godhood for PC's - if you think you can beat a deity on his or her turf, go for it. If you want to appeal to a deity for the creation of a new area, go for it. IF you can get enough mortals to believe you are a god anyway and ascend that way, go for it. I had to take Anglar out of active duty to avoid the latter. Just happy being a hubby and Darth Vader of Zarthos. |
| turalisj11-01-04, 10:13 PM | Welcome Ang - @all ANGLAR IS A SECOND GM. Take it as a DM until the Avatar shape-shifts. Anglar and I will strategise privately in PM mode - and we will also be an engine for game developments. Ang - do you think Judges should be Deities (In-Game) or not? stav ANGLAR IS A GM!?!?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-01-04, 10:18 PM | @ Anglar - Indeed - agreed on all counts. Non-Judges exist who are also members of the Pantheon. Some of those will be NPCs some will be PCs (eventually) I had to take Anglar out of active duty to avoid the latter. Just happy being a hubby and Darth Vader of Zarthos :rofl: @Turalisj :rofl: That leaves us with exactly how to begin real-posting......In-Game.... ideas? |
| anglar11-01-04, 10:18 PM | ANGLAR IS A GM!?!?!?!?! AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!! Run, oh run, as fast as you can. You can escape me. For, Death, I am. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart11-01-04, 11:18 PM | Stop skipping around Necros question - A simple yes or no works for simple men like us: From what I understand Necro: Yes we are Gods. But were not all the gods. And we are however slightly different as we are Judge-Gods which means we have to still remain neutral. Not just being neutral as a judge but also a god. Our powers pretty much are very limited. While we still can interfear it is in our best intrest not to. However stepping in and whispering into the ears of a near-dead king whos fate you see isn't bad, comming down in avatar form and starting to smite any cowards that flee a battle isn't a good idea. -Frosty |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-02-04, 12:33 AM | Hi there Frosty *smiles* That's pretty much it - you're onto it. Judges *may* very occasionally post a Judgement In-Game as a Divine Ranks post. I want you to, however, do it sparingly and save it for the right times. Make it colourful, in the spirit of the game-events. So, in that way, we sometimes have Divine Intervention - to "right a wrong" or "punish". In really dramatic, sudden and complete Divine Power..... And suddenly - there is a rumbling in the earth and you are overcome by an incredible fear. It has come, just over the horizon - and it is fell and cold, like winds from the barren and corrupt parts of the world. For Bane is come - and his wrath and hate are like palpable weights - and his sword Soulbane - can leech the life out of you with but one touch, so that you become ashen as his other undead, craven and damned. And see - he may possess a dozen mortals with but one glance. He is merciless and angry. For the beauty of the world is an insult to him, because he hates what he once was and he will rend all that lives until its beauty is broken. And he knows your hate. This is how he finds you - by your hate, which he can sense years into the past and future. Therefore - know your heart and strive well - that the Seldarine may smile upon you and that Arnandahar may continue to hold - ;) |
| anglar11-02-04, 12:39 AM | To be fair, I'm about to open this thing up some. I'll be making a post on a certain thread that each foundation will have to go to eventually to get their ball rolling. Ready or not, here I come. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-02-04, 12:47 AM | To be fair, I'm about to open this thing up some. I'll be making a post on a certain thread that each foundation will have to go to eventually to get their ball rolling. Ready or not, here I come. *grins* |
| Orcy The Green Wonder11-02-04, 01:10 AM | Orcy doesn't wish to be an elf.. er... buzzkill here. But he would just like to remind everyone to keep it civil. This is just going to be a game, if you feel the need to complain in an OOC manner, please keep it to PMs. After all, Orcy knows well that arguments can happen in these games. He has seen it many a time, and as the threat of physical violence cannot be used here, Orcy will have to use words. So, time for the blessing and all, aye Sil? (Edit: Orcy should specify that "in an OOC manner" refers to complaints about an IC happening, or problems with anothers character and the like. If you can't keep it Civil, try PM's though Orcy would rather there was no yelling and arguing at all.) HOOAH! |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-02-04, 01:21 AM | Orcy doesnt believe he will have time to take part in the actual playing of these here war games. However, he would like to say he thinks he would be able to do some GMing, after all he is official. *points to tag* My apologies Orcy. Any help you can provide would be very well received. We now have four GMs - but Finwe is never here. Orcy's work and such here will be what probably keeps him from most of the playing part. But as he has said, he can do some GMing maybe. Sil may have to tone down the posts to some simpler... less lengthy things so Orcy doesn't get confused ;). We'll look forwards and will do! If you want to be a 'co-conspirator-GM' with Anglar and I (in regards to in-game events - you are welcome anytime). regards stav |
| Dyne11-02-04, 01:39 AM | Dyne, thanks, and I agree with your entire post, but I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by 'having the focus on D&D'. Cause I don't see why any of my ideas differed very much from the Foundation-to-Foundation idea you mentioned, and that is, as you said, what the IFGW is all about. Could you explain what you mean precisely with D&D focus and in what way my ideas were different from that? That way we can talk further. What I mean is we only need the D&D rules to play this game. No combat points, no influence points, no any of that other stuff. I think they are all very good ideas for a large-scale game with hundreds of warriors in each battle. But, we would need to come up with values of combat points for each individual D&D stat, which would be time consuming. In the DMG, we already have rules and stats for siege engines, castles, keeps, stats for walls (HP, AC, DR, etc.), and stuff about hiring mercenaries. And there are already rules for personal combat. I don't think we need to come up with all sorts of new rules, I think we should use what we already have. I know it seems like an awful idea to go through battles on the message boards using the D&D rules, but there have been many successful games that have done so. The COre COliseum is a successful forum where battles are organized. It uses only the core D&D rules. So many people automatically think of war as being huge battles between thousands of soldiers, each side using massive weapons that can take out many warriors at once. This is not necessarily always true. There have been wars fought using smaller numbers of men. In fact, war can be defined as any organized conflict between groups of people. These groups of people don't necessarily have to be in huge amounts, they just happen to be large groups nowadays because larger groups are the only ones who wield any physical power. Since we don't have thousands of people fighting in this war, I don't think we should have such huge conflicts. We should just use what we have, rather than putting in thousands of NPC's to fill in the gaps. In other words, I just want to use the D&D rules. I don't see why all this other stuff is necessary. You all have very good ideas, and I commend you on them, but I just don't want to come up with an entirely new system. |
| BronzeBeard11-02-04, 06:30 PM | About risk ...is a high-risk experience for a PC... :ahem: ... ... ... .... .... the PC, the PC, the P-C. - not to me... :nonono: do you think Judges should be Deities (In-Game) or not? I know the question was for ang and not for me, but necro and KoE had already asked this and I'd like to comment via my vision of things - In-game: Judges ARE gods. This gives them not only a reason to interfere with the game ongoing life but also power to do so (Zeus strike down and so.) Plus, the gods (=Judges) can also not play as god-like and in this case they will be treated as long-forgotten god and still maintain their statue as Judges amonge the players without making themselfs extra work. But remember: ALL JUDGES ARE GODS (in the meantime) BUT NOT ALL GODS ARE JUDGES. In the DMG, we already have rules and stats for siege engines, castles, keeps, stats for walls (HP, AC, DR, etc.), and stuff about hiring mercenaries. And there are already rules for personal combat. I don't think we need to come up with all sorts of new rules, I think we should use what we already have. I know it seems like an awful idea to go through battles on the message boards using the D&D rules, but there have been many successful games that have done so. The COre COliseum is a successful forum where battles are organized. It uses only the core D&D rules. Your opinion of running the game is in complete contrast to the KIS"S idea and KoE's baby step concept. I know that this was meant to be a game for D&D, D&D fans and D&D creations but in that case I think we should go on the guild-basis-game without the armys, the keeps, the gods and the politics. I just can's see how are we gonna handle all the numbers abd data and all. Which then, in his turn, throw the foundations and the work-team right out of the window. I'm sorry for my tone of speech and hope you won't get hert by this, but plz explain to me: how are we transform Massive Units and Data IFWG into an all D&D Based game? |
| Tenzhi11-02-04, 11:57 PM | In other words, I just want to use the D&D rules. I don't see why all this other stuff is necessary. You all have very good ideas, and I commend you on them, but I just don't want to come up with an entirely new system. I know that this was meant to be a game for D&D, D&D fans and D&D creations but in that case I think we should go on the guild-basis-game without the armys, the keeps, the gods and the politics. I just can's see how are we gonna handle all the numbers abd data and all. Which then, in his turn, throw the foundations and the work-team right out of the window. I'm sorry for my tone of speech and hope you won't get hert by this, but plz explain to me: how are we transform Massive Units and Data IFWG into an all D&D Based game? I agree with the both of them. If the Foundations wish to vie, let them do it through the actions of their representative PCs (and let the GMs devise appropriate challenges be they role-playing, combat, or otherwise). If the Foundations are at war, that's just a backdrop for competing PCs and there doesn't need to be any rules to govern it. This is D&D - wars aren't won by armies, they're won by small parties of extraordinary people. If the foundations are going to have resources for creation let them be measured in ye olde standard GP. Methods for divining GP cost for such are already in existence, so there's no need to create new rules on the matter. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-03-04, 08:37 AM | Thank you Tenzhi. Powerful groups of small people - who may use their noggins to recruit the services of groups and peoples - provided by GMs. Just go about it like you go about D&D IF THAT HELPS - and develop your skills of influence over NPC groups in the SAME way. The Elven, Human, Dwarven and other Realms are yours to command in the same way you might in D&D. Use the Foundation Actions to guide your hand WHERE IT HELPS (and don't if they aren't of help) and use your Voice to express your wishesl In-Game - and just make it happen. In D&D you do not game in a social or political vacuum. You do it in a world. The Judges will allocate success versus failure on their judging standards. It's not about keeping masses of numbers. So let's stop complaining. But it is about strategy - as is D&D. The TEAM WORK is about keeping the enemy at bay and sharing. You will need to do this when the ThroneWards come after you. Like in D&D you will be exposed to things you need help with to defeat. The competition between Foundations is the allied theme. Does this help? |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-03-04, 08:57 AM | I know it seems like an awful idea to go through battles on the message boards using the D&D rules, but there have been many successful games that have done so. The COre COliseum is a successful forum where battles are organized. It uses only the core D&D rules. And having said the previous - we are Guilds - not individuals. This will be accommodated in our Game. Exactly how - we shall evolve as we go and we'll just have to trial 'what works' and then appraise as we go. It's time to just get out there and do it. I'm going to arrange for the WizO's to close this thread now - or SOON. Regards stav |
| BronzeBeard11-03-04, 11:06 AM | Fine. I Just wanted to say that the country rules (that Von Crown had told me about them) Is a birthright product that was published in the 293th magazine of "Dragon Magazin". as it is - I can't write the rules in here but they are told to be posted in the www.wizards.com/dragon website. If I could find them than we could use them for the game. (the rules are 100% compitiable for D&D use) |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-03-04, 04:25 PM | Fine. I Just wanted to say that the country rules (that Von Crown had told me about them) Is a birthright product that was published in the 293th magazine of "Dragon Magazin". as it is - I can't write the rules in here but they are told to be posted in the www.wizards.com/dragon website. If I could find them than we could use them for the game. (the rules are 100% compitiable for D&D use) Bronze Beard - I actually want to see the broader ideas about countries developed. We haven't forgotten the idea, we're just resting on it for a while, as we post in the IFWG. We will return to it. The trick is - to introduce the game-changes slowly (as doxxie (WizO_Paradox) once said to us. While people are adjusting to the whole notion of Guilds and D&D/Game Development Tools/In-Game/OutOfGame - people are needing time to pause. While this is disappointing for some (including myself) - we will accommodate. Anyone who knows me also knows that once I get an idea, I eventually work out how to develop it in a productive way. I'm very persistent. I need to say at this point, that when the Foundations first came to Guild House, there was hostile resistance to the idea of between-guild collaborations. However, as we settled in, people changed and started to see the fun that was possible in a new game-model. So - to summarise - I haven't forgotten your ideas, and we shall explore them again. Invitation to BB and Interested Others What we can do - is cut a thread called the "Trials" thread - for the idea, and you and I can do some posting (R&D only - Out of Game FULLY) to see how it might work. How does that sound? Stav |
| Orcy The Green Wonder11-03-04, 05:26 PM | Orcy remembers the resistance you speak of Sil. It was more of a precaution than hostile resistance. Nor was the resistance to the collaboration between guilds, but a massive game between them. As you've said, people need time to settle in, get used to the ideas (a new board at the time). Orcy was strongly of the belief that we should wait, and wait we did. Now the time is coming. Orcy has always known it would, he even said that he would like to see it, but not at the time. Others know of the idea, and have waited patiently. Now, its about time to start the game, and some people may be getting a little impatient with ideas and such. But give it time, Orcy is sure Sil will do everything to help you all along. It is after all Sil's baby. As for the idea of the trials thread, Orcy suggests "The Halls of Trial" or some such thing. This will keep it more fitted to the guild house. Anyway, as Orcy always says, if any of this doesn't make sense, tell him. Sometimes Orcy's thoughts wander... |
| Tenzhi11-03-04, 05:47 PM | Sometimes Orcy's thoughts wander... ...but most of the time they escape him altogether. J/K Orcy, ya big lug. ;) Yes, there was resistance to this idea, and I'm still largely against it myself - but if it's to be done I'll do what I can to try to keep the mess down to a minimum. |
| BronzeBeard11-03-04, 07:54 PM | Bronze Beard - I actually want to see the broader ideas about countries developed. We haven't forgotten the idea, we're just resting on it for a while, as we post in the IFWG. We will return to it. The trick is - to introduce the game-changes slowly (as doxxie (WizO_Paradox) once said to us. While people are adjusting to the whole notion of Guilds and D&D/Game Development Tools/In-Game/OutOfGame - people are needing time to pause. While this is disappointing for some (including myself) - we will accommodate. Anyone who knows me also knows that once I get an idea, I eventually work out how to develop it in a productive way. I'm very persistent. I need to say at this point, that when the Foundations first came to Guild House, there was hostile resistance to the idea of between-guild collaborations. However, as we settled in, people changed and started to see the fun that was possible in a new game-model. So - to summarise - I haven't forgotten your ideas, and we shall explore them again. Invitation to BB and Interested Others What we can do - is cut a thread called the "Trials" thread - for the idea, and you and I can do some posting (R&D only - Out of Game FULLY) to see how it might work. How does that sound? Stav What are you talking about? The Kis"s concept that I, tenzhi and KoE seem to be the only ones to care about? The thing wasn't my idea (my idea was the labor pool stuff the combat and the political abilities), Von Crown had suggested us to use the rules of birthrights creation, which go along well with Dyne's request about sticking to the core rules, that's it. Now I'm getting impatient (as Orcy and you said) because certain items I do not like but I have never ever opposed the IFWGs. Ever. |
| Tenzhi11-03-04, 07:58 PM | Now I'm getting impatient (as Orcy and you said) because certain items I do not like but I have never ever opposed the IFWGs. Ever. Sil was making reference to when the Guild House forum first sprang into being awhile back. Sil brought up the idea of the Inter-Foundation wargames at that time but a number of us were cautiously opposed to it at the time. |
| king_of_evil00711-03-04, 10:18 PM | My biggest problem with the Games isn't the scope of it, it isn't the difficult rules for some portions, is that there isn't really a central place where updated things are kept. When I work on the FFCS, I keep the very first post constantly updated with links to our most current classes, news, and stuff that's going on. It isn't perfect, but it sure beats having a lack of such thing. I am frankly confused. Since I haven't had as much Wizards time as I had a week or two ago, I haven't been participating in this thread as much as I'd like to. And frankly, some times things need to be said "This is how we're doing it." When character creation started, we wondered "Are we allowed to do this? What point buy do we use?" and frankly, there was a bit of wallowing. People kept asking, but there was no definitive answer. When Necrodude asked "are judges gods", I haven't seen a yes or a no. Sil, you did post that judges can do "divine intervention". . . but a simple "Yes" or "No" can suffice. We can't say "well, they are kinda, but they can't do god stuff often. . ." They are or aren't gods. If they are, some of them will constantly be performing divine stuff, others will be basically regarded as mortals or even inexistant. If they aren't, they aren't. I guess my problem is a lack of communication, in general. Mostly, this is because of my erratic posting habits (which I apologize for) but also because since this is such a large undertaking, it has to be organized from the start. Since it basically appeared, people began putting their input. Pretty much everything was accepted in some form or another, and then stuff began to get problematic as it just grew out of our hands. Much like a maniacal Wizards's creation, we lost control of it, so to speak. I mean, before we even have the basic combat rules decided (heck, we haven't even truly made a group decision on country sizes or guilds, etc), and resource threads are popping up. . . at the time, I didn't even know what to do with a resource thread! I recommend that we close this thread. Either use the Meta one that already exists, or create a new one, called "Planning". It would have to have a threadkeeper who's on about once every two days, and can devote a bit of time during that time. He would have to keep the most constant rules on the first post or two (updating to change as necessary) along with the most current topic and maybe even polling results on the first page, easily viewable. So I can log in and see that "Last week, we decided to go with Country vs. Country, as per the 9-2 vote. This week, we're discussing whether or not judges are gods." This can go on the Trial thread, if it's what I understand. The rules posted on that page are the most recent, so newcomers have no problem "getting into the game" so to speak. The project would have more community decisions, so more people would be content with the project, AND less people would be confused. Of course, this is assuming that I comprehend correctly - we're going back to the drawing board, or at least just starting a new thread for the R&D discussion. Am I correct? If so, then I propose we make this new R&D thread like what I described. And if I'm not correct, that's exactly what I mean. It's difficult to know what's going on these days, especially for erratic posters. I realize the effort going into this. So many people are devoting all this time to what's surely going to be a great experience. But it just arrived. We have to finish the rules to everybody's satisfaction before we truly begin. Regardless, I'm heading into overdrive, reading as much as possible, trying to get up to speed. I don't oppose the games in any way. I'm just voicing that I think we have some communication issues to be discussed. Sorry if I'm a hassle. (Man, I'm posting so much negative stuff. . . think positive). I promise my next post will be more constructive. *crosses fingers* :D |
| Orcy The Green Wonder11-04-04, 02:41 AM | As Orcy has said, people are growing impatient. They feel that because there are already some rules in place, they can hop to it and get right into playing. Orcy personally believes that everybody needs to stop and take a breather. Make sure people know whats going on and that all the rules are set and everything. You cant play if you don't know what it is you happen to be playing. Now... where did those thoughts get to... |
| Tenzhi11-04-04, 02:59 AM | I agree, Orcy, but there's just no stopping some people from rushing headlong into things. It's been heckishly difficult to slow them down this much. So now we just do what we can to help and hope it doesn't become a train wreck. |
| Orcy The Green Wonder11-04-04, 03:02 AM | We could always resort to throwing mountains in their paths. I can do that you know... But yes, Orcy knows well that it is very hard to stop people from rushing in many times. Hes seen that kind of thinking in games, and seen how horribly wrong it goes. Orcy doesn't really want to see this fall apart because of the rush. Hopefully some people will listen to the big green guy. Otherwise, there may be problems down the line. |
| anglar11-04-04, 03:15 AM | As Orcy has said, people are growing impatient. They feel that because there are already some rules in place, they can hop to it and get right into playing. Orcy personally believes that everybody needs to stop and take a breather. Make sure people know whats going on and that all the rules are set and everything. You cant play if you don't know what it is you happen to be playing. Now... where did those thoughts get to... Which is precisely why I'm feeding them the "Murder, She Wrote" storyline. It'll give them something to focus on so everyone else can get the rest of the campaign further along. If anybody figures out the who's, why's, and wherefore's before next Friday, I'll be surprised. A little over a week may not be much, but it is something. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-04-04, 03:38 AM | @ King of Evil I promise my next post will be more constructive. *crosses fingers* I'll look forwards to that post. @Bronze Beard Thanx for the post - I think Tenzhi has spoken to your points. @All I want to return here to find happy posts. Next off - we are never going to have consensus and we are never going to arrive at a point without some confusion. You need to be adaptable and good spirited about the confusion. And, if you need to angst out, *do it in a PM to me please - where I will speak to you directly* I will limit the length of this post, and the next post will spell out the game-rules that we will begin with. stav |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-04-04, 03:45 AM | a. We WILL use D&D Core rules as a basis. DICTUM: When in Doubt - Think Core Rules. b. We WILL have or develop rules for mass numbers - simple numbers. Fact: we don't have those rules yet, and we will rely on the Judges' opinions about who was the most INFLUENTIAL foundation in a conflict. c. The core areas of disagreement are in the following areas: 1. What are the judges freedoms - are they gods. 2. What are the rules for army-country conflicts. 3. Do we have countries. Next post addresses those three areas. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-04-04, 03:51 AM | 1. Are the Judges Gods? This has been answered. But I will spell it out again. a. A Judge (IF SHE CHOOSES) *may* post a Divine Ranks Post. b. A Judge (IF SHE CHOOSES) may *decline* to contribute to the In-Game text. That is, the judges have *discretion*. They are not, however, permitted to overuse the function, and they are *encouraged* to use that freedom to enhance the Game's spirit and fun. Next post will address point 2. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-04-04, 03:55 AM | This is essentially a FAQ sheet. We will Unsticky TWO threads. Finwe's thread is to be replaced by a NEW sticky of FAQ's. I need a volunteer for it. We will Unsticky Orouborus's thread. The second sticky will be TENZHI's Scores thread. Next post - for a separate point. |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-04-04, 04:30 AM | 2. What are the rules for army-country-interfoundation conflicts? They are simple. Your Foundation has INFLUENCE. How you USE that INFLUENCE is, currently, in your In-Game posts. And the Judges weight that INFLUENCE. I will demonstrate that by example ...Silmarien is surrounded by hostile Drow in the city of Menzoberranzan and their ghoulish features and barred teeth signal their intention to rend, maim and destroy. For that is the wont of the Drow - to rend and Unmake and to destroy that which their jealousy secretly desires. Ten Matron Mothers stand poised before Silmarien, and their smug demeanour signals their malice. But Silmarien has seen far worse than this. She reflects over the years and recalls violence and hardship and untold woes. She rises. Matron Mother O'pele'va'esse holds her face in a featureless stance, for she knows what Silmarien is capable of. Silmarien throws off her cloak - for the first time since you have known her. And she stands before the Drow, adorned in the most regal Elven livery. She is dressed in accord with the Elves of the Northern Flame, with modest but tight fitting blue and silver, that reveals her curves and her arms are gloved to the elbows and she wears knee-high travellers boots. But, it is on her chest that your attention goes. For there lies the Mithril Starcrest of the Northern Flame, with the blue radians of the star poised amidst the finest of Mithril. And the Starcrest flashes in the light - dazing you. But it is her green eyes that find you and flash to life as she stares back at you - Do you doubt that you are imperilled? Do you fear for your soul? For if you do not, you are beguiled and you will not survive here. For all the world is fallen to Darkness and all that remains are but pockets of beauty. Your Choice is to either way the one path or the other - and by that choice you will be ever Known. She turns her attention to the Drow and her hair falls about her shoulders in silver-blond locks. But her face is grim and set to features of stone. She strides over to Matron Mother of House O'pele'va'esse - and she points and says in no uncertain terms. "Your cowardice does not befit one of your Order. I will not parlay with Darkness - and though all the world should fall into hunger, despair and ruin - I will not fill the Vaults of the Drow with our riches - that you may corrupt the living with your hate." She strikes the metalshod heel of the Runestaff three times on the ground and Invokes the Pereldar Silverstarfire. It is a flash of Azure and the length of the Staff is suddenly incandescent as is Silmarien's entire body. Her eyes are fey - and her Voice is altered - into PluriPotent cadences. The Pereldar command a Lore that you cannot fathom. For Drow do not understand Creation. Instead, they Unmake and Rend. And in this way, you have forgotten yourselves. While all the lands succumb to Darkness, we will remain an indomitable Bastion that you will never destroy. If you want our Fealty - it will be on our terms - and not at the cost of Elven blood. She rises into apotheosis and shouts DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR And she Incants once - and a surge of Pereldar Silverstarfire EXPOLODES from the Staff - and strikes the Counsel Chambers with the force of an Earthquake. All of Menzoberranzan shakes - as the Half-Elven song reverberates in the aether..... |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-04-04, 04:39 AM | 3. Do we have countries. Yes. If you WANT. We shall accommodate your posts with our basic judging guidelines. If your actions are unreasonable, your endeavour will not succeed. If, on the other hand, you are cunning, masterful, considered, wisened, methodical and appropriate in how you conduct your relations with NPC communities, you will be able to develop wider INFLUENCE by commanding more. If the guidelines for influence are unclear, PM me. Your Servant Silmarien |
| Silmarien Aldalome11-04-04, 04:41 AM | The Discussion's Moved to >>HERE<< (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4760483&posted=1#post4760483) This thread is now CLOSED *click* |