Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Haldrik 01-09-04, 04:52 AM	The Viking Foundation is a resource for accurate information about Viking culture. The adaptations for DnD MUST authentically reflect the Viking worldview and Norse Mythology, and do not necessarily match the DnD tradition. For example, "Norse Trolls" are not at all like DnD Trolls.
Haldrik 01-09-04, 04:57 AM	Trollborn (similar to a half-ogre, less similar to half-orc) Trollborn are the offspring of a Human and a Norse Troll (similar to ogre). They tend to be unusually tall, but rarely exceeding 10' (Creature Size Large). Abilities Adjustment: Str +2, Int +2, Wis -4 Trollborn tend to toward superhuman strength. Trollborn like Trolls tend toward high intelligence with extraordinary memory. However they tend toward low wisdom, being gullable to the point of comedy and prone to wicked rage for silly reasons. Trollborn tend to be ugly by human standards. However Trollborn are NOT uncharismatic. What humans find ugly, Trollborn find extremely beautiful. And viceversa! Trollborn cherish sloppiness and lack of grooming. Trollborn Charisma often (but not always) translates into intimidating and terrifying humans. Favored Classes: Illusionist and Barbarian Bonus Racial Features: Dark Vision 60' Spell Master [Metamagic Feat], if Illusionist Extra Rage [Combat Feat], if Barbarian Healing [Skill] Intimidate [Skill] Bonus Racial Languages: * Literacy in the runic alphabet.
Zyfax 01-09-04, 08:39 AM	like that one, well, make norse barbarians know the runic language, actually, all should know that. (and no silly helmet horns!)
Haldrik 01-13-04, 02:48 PM	Alföđr orkar, âlfar skilja, Vanir vita.[/] - Hrafnagaldr "[The Aesir from Odin the] Allfather [have] power, the Alfs skill, the Vanir knowledge". There are overlaps in the descriptions of the races in the Norse sources. The sources come from different places and different times, and the terminology seems to shift. To resolve the ambiguities among the races, I suggest primordeal races, followed by mixraces who sometimes have the same name as their parentage. [I]Norse Races in Order of Size Jotunn (colossal) titanlike deity. Vanr (gargantuan) pantheonlike deity. As (gargantuan) pantheonlike deity. Troll (huge) ogrelike deity. Alfr (medium) elflike deity. Human (medium) human. Dvergr (small) dwarflike deity. Vaettr (tiny) gnomelike deity. Alf Subrace: Light Alf (Ljoss Alf) (medium Alf subrace) deity with luminescent daylight skin, living high in the sky. Dark Alf (Merk Alf) (medium Alf subrace) deity with sooty gray-black skin, living deep in the underworld. Mound Alf (Haug Alf) (medium Alf subrace) deity descending from and blending both Light Alf/Dark Alf mix with skin color like human range but commonly fair, living in hills and vegetation. Alf Mixrace: ('Alf', 'Vet') (medium to tiny Vet/Mound Alf) elflike to fairylike, dwelling in hills and vegetation. Dverg Mixrace: ('Dverg', 'Svart Alf') (small Dverg/Dark Alf) dwarflike with human feet and sooty grayish black skin, living in the underworld with little association with Human. Mound Dverg ('Dverg', 'Alf') (medium to small Dverg mixraces, including Dverg/Human, Dverg/Mound Alf, and Dverg/Human/Mound Alf) dwarflike living in hills and vegetation, or adopted into any society, frequently mating with humans. ('Dverg') (colossal Jotun/Dverg) gigantic dwarflike, such as the four pillars of the skydome, North, South, East, and West. ('Dverg', 'Troll') (medium to small Dverg/Troll) dwarflike with human feet, who temporarily become stone in sunlight but return to normal when dark. Nisse (Nisse) (tiny Vet/Dverg) gnomelike living invisibly alongside humans. Troll Mixrace: ('Troll') (small to huge Troll/Dverg) ogrelike to dwarflike, who become stone in sunlight. Some die but others return to normal when dark. Thurs (Thurs, 'Troll') (gargantuan to large Troll/Jotun) ogrelike, living in coastal cliffs, especially vindictive to humans. ('Troll') (small Troll/Vet) goblinlike living in hills and vegetation. Huldre (Huldre, Rĺ) (medium Troll/Mound Alf) nymphlike. Huldre Submixrace: Forest Huldre (Skogs-rĺ, 'Huldre', 'Troll-kvinne') (medium Troll/Mound Alf) dryadlike living in trees, beautiful humanly with cow tail, fox tail, or hollow area in back. Sea Huldre (Sjř-rĺ) (medium Troll/Mound Alf) naiadlike living in waters, capsizing ships and feasting on the drowned.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 01-14-04, 07:40 PM	Hmm quite interesting...I shall take a part of this foundation but I warn you I wont be very active for a few weeks (I wont get into it but I will only manage to sneak a little time in here and there and most will be spent on on post or my other foundations I am more dedicated to) A good source for ideas is the Age of Mythology game which has a lot of great ideas however unrealistic. It would be hard however to play as anything non-human in this world though beacuse dwarves while weak on there own can create things better then the gods and the elves and trolls are well...very strong. I am not sure if you know this or not but...JRR Tolkins works were based of viking (finnish to be more specific) myths and but he changed them around a little bit. And while not all of dnd is based around it at least the races are based of Tolkin which was based of norse legends so this could be hard...but not impossable. I could easily see clerics and druid varients and paladins of Tyr (Hmm thats sounds fimilar...Edward Greenwood you copy-cat :P) All in all I wish you luck and I shall try to throw in some great stuff soon!
Haldrik 01-21-04, 06:36 PM	Thanks. I'm surprised how Tyr connects with Paladin, but I think you're on to something.
Haldrik 01-21-04, 07:01 PM	Norse Mythology originated the concept of Dwarves. (Old Norse Dverg > Modern English Dwarf ). In Norse Mythology, the Norse Dwarves are vastly powerful Wizards. Even the gods must go to the Dwarves for help with magic, especially for the creation of magic items! Below are two sketches for two kinds of Dwarves in Norse Mythology, the Norse Dwarf and the Hill Dwarf. The quick sketches are meant for flavor, and do not yet intend a well thought out balanced race for a player characters. Norse Dwarves The "Norse Dwarves" are the Wizards! They live deep down in the underworld. Norse Dwarves are purebred, and the most ancient of dwarvenkind. They have almost no contact with humans, but do keep contacts with the Norse Dark Elves. They live in extreme luxury, overflowing with elegance and oppulence. Gold, gems, silks, and artifacts appear limitless. Norse Dwarves are not especially stout, but are small and cunning. They have "sooty" greyish black skin, unkempt thick straight jet black hair. They can be bearded like humans. They tend to be ugly by human standards, but are not uncharismatic. Distinctively, their feet look like a crow's claws. They are small about 2', give or take, but walk rapidly for their size. POWERFUL WIZARDS! Norse Dwarves are the artificers for the gods. Equal to the Norse Dark Elves in their magic! They craft any kind of enchanted item .. made from any kind of material: metal, stone, wood, fabric, walrus ivory, human hair, and so on. They are brilliant inventors, always on the cutting edge of arcane technology. They tend to hide to avoid physical combat. When threatened they unleash vicious magic spells and terrible devices. They are generally good natured, but can get vindictive and spiteful if they feel wronged. They also tend to be miserly hoarding their own treasures, and xenophobic keeping to their own kind. Notably, they are unusually honorable and tend to keep their oaths. In the sense of their oaths, some may be of lawful alignment. Some maintain the spirit of their oaths in good faith, while others use their remarkable intelligence to exploit the loopholes in their wording to cheat the recipients of the oaths. Most Norse Dwarves are ancient and extremely powerful. It is rarely possible to "help" a Dwarf. However on occasion, a Dwarf can get stranded. A young baby may get lost, or a powerful enemy may capture an adult Dwarf. If rescued in some way, Dwarves feel painfully obligated. They will always try to return the good deed with some even more valuable gift. Perhaps, they will cast a spell to transform the helper in some beneficial way or grant a powerful magic item. Some try to extract these gifts against the Dwarf's will. All eventually regret it. Size: Small 2' Move: 30' (Small but quick, as humans) Abilities: -2 Str (small), +2 Int (extremely intelligent). I am uncertain about the role of Con for Dwarves in Norse stories. Favored Class: Wizard. Feats: Any feat that can help craft powerful magic items. Spell Mastery (Norse Dwarves do not use spellbooks. They know all spells by heart. Spells known are treated as if learned by Spell Mastery. Norse Dwarves still prepare their spells each day as Wizards do). Spelllike Feats: Invisiblity at will (for 1 round per level throughout each day)? Nondetection. Hill Dwarves There are different kinds of Dwarves in Norse Mythology. The "Hill" Dwarves are surface dwellers who live in luxurious houses or artful caves. They somewhat resemble DnD Dwarves. Yet unlike DnD Dwarves, Hill Dwarves encourage crossbreeding with humans. "Half-Dwarves" are the norm, even to the point that Hill Dwarves will kidnap human children to raise them in Dwarven society. They replace the kidnapped children with Dwarven children so that Dwarves will grow up in human society! They also crossbreed with Hill Elves, and some communities form a seemless blend from Hill Dwarf to Hill Elf. Hill Dwarves look "dwarfy" but are not at all ugly. They are Medium but short in size. As opposed to Norse Dwarves, all Hill Dwarves have feet like human feet. Despite the campaign of crossbreeding, the Hill Dwarven population remains small. It is uncommon to actually meet a Dwarf, especially one that grew up in a Dwarven society. Actually catching sight of a Dwarf grants great luck to the beholder. Hill Dwarves personify luck. Luck brings success, magical power, good health, and good luck in general. Many Hill Dwarves are master Bards, called "Skalds" among the Norse. Their voices and instruments deliver irresistable enchantments. Some of the most famous human musicians are in fact apprentices of Hill Dwarves. Abilities: -2 Strength, +2 Cha (sorcerous luck). Speed: 20' Size: Medium but short. Favored class: Skald (Norse Bard) Spelllikes: Luck.
Flu]{e B0y 01-21-04, 09:20 PM	well we were studin the vikings and mayb for spellcasting u can use somethin like usin the ruins as magic items such as wands but give them less charges and may stronger spells. it was thought that each ruin contained magic.....so hope this helps ya
Flu]{e B0y 01-21-04, 09:45 PM	To explain u could have lil pebbles with one ruin carved in it and when all the charges are wasted the ruin will magically disappear. i also know some place where they show most of the ruins and there meanings but i forgot what website so try and search with google. And for more complexed spells the pebble could be bigger and fit more than one ruin.
Prospero 01-22-04, 11:15 PM	Actually, what Fluke Boy is refering to are Rune Stones. I like his idea. Rune stones could represent almost any magic item, scrolls (read the rune once and it fades from the stone), wands (read the rune 50 times before it fades from the stone), wondrous items, ect... The Vikings were famous graffiti artists, they left rune carvings all around europe. Here's a link to a site with some historical info: Runes (http://www.stemnet.nf.ca/CITE/v_runes.htm )
Tenzhi 01-22-04, 11:38 PM	What of the Aesir?
Arilou_skiff 01-23-04, 04:08 PM	Just a point: "Huldre" is also known as "Rĺ" and were divided into two species, "Skogsrĺ" and "Sjörĺ", the former being dryadlike creatures with something strange on their back (tales vary between them having a hollow, bark-like skin on their back or a fox's tail) the second are fairies of the sea and water, they feast upon the bones of the drowned and are always immensely rich from all the treasures they get from capsized ships. Both of them have clearly evil tendencies, although they're not always evil.
Haldrik 01-23-04, 05:38 PM	Arilou_skiff: Just a point: "Huldre" is also known as "Rĺ" and were divided into two species, "Skogsrĺ" and "Sjörĺ", the former being dryadlike creatures with something strange on their back (tales vary between them having a hollow, bark-like skin on their back or a fox's tail). The second are fairies of the sea and water, they feast upon the bones of the drowned and are always immensely rich from all the treasures they get from capsized ships. Thanks for the tip. I definitely heard cow tail, but fox tail sounds cool too. I guess the variants differ according to region/era. I'm not really familiar with the Sjř-Rĺ. I'll look into them. In both cases, your connecting them to "dryads" and "fairies" has a point. I'm updating the race list above in the third post to reassign the huldra from Troll subspecies to Troll/Elf hybrid. The tails are a sure sign of Troll parentage, but the beauty of (some) Huldra is best explained by Elf parentage. They are humansized, not Small, so no Vet or Dwarf in the mix. Both of them have clearly evil tendencies, although they're not always evil. I'm extremely hesitant about assigning the label "evil" to these denizens of folklore because they are so obviously personifications of forces of nature. Nature is dangerous, yes but "evil" has a moral tone that usually does not apply. It's like calling snakes or wolves "evil". People do it, but it's silly. I wish there was a word in DnD to signify "dangerous" without signifying "evil".
Arilou_skiff 01-23-04, 06:13 PM	Ah, but you are looking at it from a modern, rational-scientific principle. People, at least in Scandinavia, were *afraid* of nature, it was "The Enemy" (it can easily be seen about what people considered beautifull: Cutivated landscapes, fields and meadows, orchards and plantations, that was beautifull, mountains and forests were "Wild", "Ugly" and "Frightening".) The "natural forces" weren't just things that occured, they were malevolent forces that were "out to get you" you had to watch out or "They" would try to harm you and your family. Pre-industrial people really usually make today's conspiracy nuts look like amateurs :D To people in pre-industrial society wolves and snakes *were* evil (the hatred for wolves in Scandinavia was, and in some places still is, quite remarkable, they were literally considered foul spirits in many places) Bears were dangerous creatures (there was even folklore that the largest bears could only be slain by silver weapons)
Haldrik 01-23-04, 08:13 PM	People, at least in Scandinavia, were *afraid* of nature, it was "The Enemy" You are quite correct that "wild nature" is the "enemy" in most archaic societies. However there is such a problem with saying "good" vs "evil". The "evil" bad guys are often quite goodnatured and friendly (lots of stories about good trolls) and the "good" good guys are often quite malevolent and murderous (lots of stories about rapacious gods). Our moral sense of "good" vs "evil" just does not exist in archaic societies. Archaic societies are more about "order" vs "chaos". It somewhat resembles DnD's concept of Law vs Chaos, except one would be hardpressed to call the god Tor "Lawful" even though he personifies Order. (Actually Lawful Neutral fits Tor more than people might think. The Jotuns are then Chaotic Neutral. I'm not pushing these alignments, but they are plausable). The god Odin, on the other hand, is the All Father who gives birth to everything, to both Order and Chaos, and personifies cosmic ambiguity. (That's why Loki is his bloodbrother).
Arilou_skiff 01-23-04, 08:18 PM	Originally posted by Haldrik You are quite correct that "wild nature" is the "enemy" in most archaic societies. However there is such a problem with saying "good" vs "evil". The "evil" bad guys are often quite goodnatured and friendly (lots of stories about good trolls) and the "good" good guys are often quite malevolent and murderous (lots of stories about rapacious gods). Our moral sense of "good" vs "evil" just does not exist in archaic societies. Archaic societies are more about "order" vs "chaos". It somewhat resembles DnD's concept of Law vs Chaos, except one would be hardpressed to call the god Tor "Lawful" even though he personifies Order. (Actually Lawful Neutral fits Tor more than people might think. The Jotuns are then Chaotic Neutral. I'm not pushing these alignments, but they are plausable). The god Odin, on the other hand, is the All Father who gives birth to everything, to both Order and Chaos, and personifies cosmic ambiguity. (That's why Loki is his bloodbrother). But if you look at how these creatures act you'll see that in the vast majority of cases they seek to harm "ordinary people" (sometiems they can aid, but usually not) which would be a good qualifier for giving them at least a "Usually evil" tag.
Haldrik 01-23-04, 08:28 PM	I admit they do like to eat people.
RhoxandRoll 01-23-04, 08:30 PM	Wow, I like it alot. I enjoy worlds based on earth cultures, and this looks very interesting. Once, I heard that Norse Elves had hollow chests...is this true? I don't believe that Age of Mythology would work well, it is, of course, fiction after all.
Haldrik 01-23-04, 08:41 PM	Once, I heard that Norse Elves had hollow chests...is this true? There is a creature related to the Norse Alvs, here called "Forest Huldre" and classified as a Troll/Alv mix. They are sort of like tree nymphs or dryads. They are usually female. Some of them (but not most of them!) have a hollow torso, that looks perfectly beautiful from the front but is actually open and hollow from the back. The strange image is thought to be inspired by the look of an old tree stump that sometimes withers into this kind of hollowed out semicircular shape. Most of the Forest Huldre have tails in the back, and are otherwise normal, not hollow. In any case, the Huldre tend to look like normal beautiful humans from the front, and you can only tell that they are Huldre if you get a chance to look at them from behind. Edit: From what I can gather, the Huldre vary according to region. The Norwegians see them has having a cow tail from the back. Apparently, the Swedes see them as having a fox tail, and the Danes see them as being hollow from the back.
Haldrik 01-23-04, 09:01 PM	In the future I hope to do a bunch of stuff on Runes. Thanks for your posts and link. Here's also another link if you want to see what Viking runes look like. There are different kinds of runic alphabets. The Viking runes are the ones from 800 CE to 1050 CE. http://www.arild-hauge.com/enruner.htm On a related note, I wasn't sure if Troll know how to read and write runes. I found a passage in the Poetic Edda that seems to say all Norse races have runesters who taught the runes to the rest of the race. Because all Troll know magic, assumably all or at least most know runes. Therefore, Trollborn (Human/Troll) who become Barbarians are not illiterate. The same is true for Barbarians of any Norse race including Human. Generally among Norse Human, only aristocrats are literate. However the Norse Barbarians (Berserk) like the Norse Bards (Skald) tend to be literate because they worship Odin who happens to also be the god of runes. By the way, most Norse do *not* worship Odin because he is a treacherous god. Most worship Tor. Odin tends to be overrepresented because the people who record the mythology are the Skalds who do worship Odin. ;)
Arilou_skiff 01-23-04, 10:29 PM	True, if Adam of Bremen can be trusted (probably not!) Odin was third in rank at Uppsala, after Tor and Frej. Trolls should certainly know how to read runes, and they're all of course incredibly rich :D
Haldrik 02-02-04, 11:41 PM	Below is a series of small articles about the Berserk (the Norse Barbarian). The information appears here in Norse World (Races) to provide flavor for a Norse Viking style campaign. Comments about special skills, features, or feats for the Berserk as a character class (Barbarian): post here.
Haldrik 02-02-04, 11:43 PM	The Berserk (The Norse Barbarian) by Stein Atle Vere The Berserk Becomes the Animal Spirit The notion that a Viking is a fur-wearing barbarian howling into battle ... is not a Viking. But it does exist. Among the highly civilized Vikings, there is a certain kind of warrior called a berserk. The English phrase to go “berserk” rightly comes from here! The name in Old Norse is ber-serk-r. The name is a contraction of the Old Norse words for “bear-shirt” (bjor-sark). The group gets this nickname from the strange custom of wearing a shirt made out of bear fur. They also wear the skins of other animals. They wear bear fur to spiritually become the strength of a bear. They wear wolf fur to become the ferocity of a wolf. There is even a story connecting to a dragon. It is appropriate to don dragon leather to become the terrorism of a dragon. The Chronicles of the Kings of Norway (Heim’s-Kringla) reports King Harald III of Norway has an elite fighting unit of berserks. King Harald’s Saga calls these berserks the “wolf-coats”. Grettir’s Saga calls them the “wolf-skins”. This nickname the “wolf-coats” is ironic because they wear the furs of a “wolf” INSTEAD OF the “coats” of chainmail that the other warriors wear! Ynglinga’ Saga says the berserks especially worship Odin, the Norse god of inspiration. The god possesses them with beastly fury. They fly into battle “without coats of chainmail, and act like rabid wolves”. These wolf-wrapped shock troops become the ferocity of the wolf spirit. The Berserk Can Shapechage into the Animal The berserks have the power to shapechange into animals. A shapechanger is literally called a “shape-leaper” (ham-laup-r), leaping into the shape of the animal almost instantaneously. Egil’s Saga mentions a berserk called Ulf is a shapechanger who turns into a wolf every evening. “But every day, as it came towards evening, he would get so ill-tempered no one could speak to him. It was not long before he would go to bed. Then there came the talk about him being a shapechanger, and people called him Kveld-Ulf”. They rename him Kveld-Ulf (“evening-wolf”) because he becomes a “wolf” every “evening”. The power to shapechange into an animal comes from the “spirit” (hamingja). The human spirit is so powerful it has the power to transform the physical body. It even spiritually soaks personal belongs. The more people feel attached to something the more their spirit unites with it. The berserks become one with their animal skin. So much so, their spirit’s power to shapechange into that animal actually saturates that skin. There is even a story in Volsunga’ Saga how Sigmund and Sinfjolti steal a couple of wolf furs from a pair of berserkers. They use their furs so they too can shapechange into wolves and go “berserking”! The Berserk Can Astral Project in the Shape of the Animal Spirit of the Berserks becomes the animal spirit. As their spirit, shapechangers can even exit their own bodies in animal form. Landnama’ Bok mentions Storolf and Dufthak who are both “shapestrong” and get into an argument. They challenge each other to a duel to the death. Each one goes into astral projection and combats the other in the spirit world while in animal form. “One evening about sunset, a man with the gift of second sight saw a great bear go out from Hval. And a bull from Dufthak's-Farm. They met at Storolf-Vell-r and fought furiously. The bear had the best of it”. The spirits duel. Only the psychic with “second sight” can see them. Yet their spirits also have physical power! “In the morning, a hollow could be seen in the place where they met, as though the earth had been turned over. This is now called Oldugrof”. The more powerful the spirit is the more it can influence the physical world. Hrolf's Saga recounts the time Bodvar Bjarki sends out his spirit in bear form. Bodvar is a warrior of King Hrolf. When King Hrolf goes to war against King Hjorvard, Bodvar retreats back to the camp to hide his body and propels his spirit out as a bear. His spirit is so strong, his bear form fully materializes to rip apart King Hjorvard’s army. “Men saw that a great bear went before King Hrolf's men, keeping always near the king. It slew more men with its forepaws than any five of the king's champions. Blades and weapons glanced off it, and he brought down both men and horses in King Hjorvard's forces. Everything which came in its path it crushed to death with its teeth, so that panic and terror swept through King Hjorvard's army”. Bodvar’s bear form even manifests the berserks’ immunity to weapons. The Berserk Can Summon the Animal Spirit as an Animal Familiar Not only can the berserk’s spirit cause the body to shapechange into an animal. Not only can it physicalize outside the body as an animal. It can even manifest as an independent animal with a life of its own. This is the meaning of the concept of an animal “familiar” (fylgja). The familiar is a physicalization of the berserk’s own spirit. This animal is BOTH a normal animal AND a form of astral projection. Sometimes the berserk goes about not really aware of the animal. Sometimes the berserk meditates and then can see through the familiar’s eyes and direct it as an extension of self. It is a familiar in every way. Before the berserk actually summons the familiar, it may appear in dreams, visions, and even physically. The form of the animal spirit may be especially: bear, wolf, bore, cow/bull. Also possible is: badger, otter, falcon, swan, elk, moose, reindeer, goat, salmon, narwhale, snake, and so on. Any animal that resonates culturally with Norse is possible. The same animal spirit forms the shapechange, the astral projection, and the familiar. The familiar can dematerialize back into spirit and rematerialize again.
Haldrik 02-02-04, 11:49 PM	:)
Haldrik 02-02-04, 11:53 PM	:cool:
Haldrik 02-03-04, 12:15 AM	VIKING RUNES (AROUND 900-1050 CE) |// |\ |\ |\ |\ |/ |/ || || |\ |/ | | || |/ | |\ | F U Ţ Ĺ R K | | | | | † |\ | /| † | | | | H N I A S /| | \|/ |\ | /| | | | /| | | T B M L Some runes stand for more than one sound F U,Y,V Ţ,Đ Ĺ,O,Ř R K,G,NG,NK H N I,J,E A,Ć S T,D,NT B,P M L The rune Ţ Ţ (lowercase ţ) = “th” as in “thin”, spelt “th” Đ (lowercase đ) = “th” as in “then”, spelt “th” or “dh” or “d” Double Letters Are Represented by Only One Rune For example: hagal-l is spelled HAGAL reiđ-r is spelled RIŢR English letter = Norse sound = Rune c = k,s = K,S z = s = S w = v = U x = ks = KS sh = sj = SI ch = kj = KI qu = kv = KU THE NAMES OF THE RUNES Runes Norse English Related Literally Name Alphabet Word Means [ RUN Run Run (Rune) “secret” ] [ RUNAR Run-ar Runar (Runes) “secrets” ] FI Fe Fe (Fee) “wealth” UR Ur Ur (Ore) “dross” ŢURS Ţurs Thurs “ogre” ĹS Ĺs-s As (Estuary) “rivermouth” RIŢR Reid-r Reid (Ride) “ride” KUN Kaun Kun (Kindle) “infection” HAGAL Hagal-l Hagal (Hail) “hail” NAUŢR Nauđ-r Naud (Need) “need” IS Is-s Is (Ice) “ice” ĹR ĹR Ar (Year) “harvest” SOL Sol Sol (Solar) “sun” TYR Ty-r Ty (Divine) “Ty” BIARKAN Bjarkan Bjarkan (Birch) “birch tree” MAŢR Mađ-r Mad (Man) “human” LUKR Lřg-r Log (Lake) “waterfall” UR (unused) Y-r Y (Yew) “yew tree” CHRISTIAN VIKING RUNES (AROUND 1000-1050 CE) |// |\ |\ | |\ |/ |/ || || /| |/ | | || |/ /| |\ | F U Ţ Ĺ R K \|/ | | | | /|\ |\ | /| | | | | H N I A S /| |\ \|/ |\ | | |< | | | | |/ | | /|\ T B M L Y
Haldrik 02-03-04, 08:58 PM	THE NAMES OF THE NORSE RACES USING RUNES Runes Norse English Related DnD Name Alphabet Word Name ALFR Alf-r Alf (Elf) Alf LIOSALFR Ljos-Alf-r Ljos Alf (Light) Light Alf HUITALFR Hvit-Alf-r Hvit Alf (White) MIRKALFR Merk-Alf-r Merk Alf (Murk) Dark Alf SVARTALFR Svart-Alf-r Svart Alf (Swarthy) HAUGALFR Haug-Alf-r Haug Alf (High) Mound Alf UAN Van-n Van (Vanir) Van UANIR Van-ir Vanir (Vanir) Vanir (plural) UALKUR Val-Kyr-r Val Kyr (Valkyrie) Valkyr UALKURIA Val-Kyr-ja Val Kyrja (Valkyrie) Valkyrja (f.) UITR Vet-t-r Vet (Fairy) Vet IĹTUN Jotun-n Jotun (Etin) Jotun ŢURS Ţurs Thurs Thurs ĹS Ĺs-s As (Aesir) As ASIR Ćs-ir Aesir (Aesir) Aesir (plural) DUIRGR Dverg-r Dverg (Dwarf) Dverg TRĹL Troll Troll (Troll) Troll The Literal Meaning of the Races Norse Related Literally Other Related Words Name Word Means Alf (Elf) “translucence” (Alf’s incorporeal form) Ljos Alf (Light) “bright-light” Hvit Alf (White) “white” Merk Alf (Murk) “darkness” Svart Alf (Swarthy) “black” Haug Alf (High) “mound” Van (Vanir) “winner” Van: win, Ven(us), wi’(sh) Val Kyr (Valkyrie) “slain chooser” Val: val(iant), Kyr: choose Jotun (Etin) “eater” Jot(un): eat As (Aesir) “spirit” Dverg (Dwarf) “dwarf” Troll (Troll) “plodder” Vet (Fairy) “fate” Vet: fate > fa’e > fae(rie) THE NAMES OF THE NORSE GODS USING RUNES Runes Norse English Literally Related Name Alphabet Means Words BALŢR Balđ-r Bald “daylight” bl(aze) TUR Ty-r Ty “divinity” div(ine) Tue(sday) ĹŢIN Ođin-n Odin “inspirer” vat(ic) Wedn(esday) ŢĹR Ţor-r Thor “thunder” thu(nd)er Thur(sday) FRIUR Frey-r Frey “lord” fri(end) FRIUIA Frey-ja Freyja “lord” (f.) fri(end) Fri(day) FRIG Frig-g Frigg “spouse” (f.) fri(end)
Haldrik 02-03-04, 09:07 PM	Old Norwegian Rune Poem Fe - Wealth Wealth is a source of discord among kinsmen; the wolf lives in the forest. Ur - Slag Slag comes from bad iron; the reindeer often races over the frozen snow. Thurs - Giant Giant causes anguish to women; misfortune makes few men cheerful. Oss - Estuary Estuary is the way of most journeys; but a scabbard is of swords. Reid - Ride Ride is said to be the worst thing for horses; Reginn forged the finest sword. Kaun - Infection Infection is fatal to children; death makes a corpse pale. Hagall - Hail Hail is the coldest of grain; Christ created the world of old. Naud - Need Need gives scant choice; a naked man is chilled by the frost. Iss - Ice Ice we call the broad bridge; the blind man must be led. Ar - Harvest Harvest is a boon to men; I say that Frodi was generous. Sol - Sun Sun is the light of the world; I bow to the divine decree. Tyr - Tyr Tyr is a one-handed god; often has the smith to blow. Bjarkan - Birch Tree Birch has the greenest leaves of any shrub; Loki was fortunate in his deceit. Madr - Human Human is an augmentation of the dust; great is the claw of the hawk. Logr - Waterfall Waterfall is a river which falls from a mountain-side; but ornaments are of gold. Yr - Yew Tree Yew is the greenest of trees in winter; it is wont to crackle when it burns. Formatted and edited by Haldrik from Runic and Heroic Poems, Bruce Dickins Original in Old Norwegian Fé vćldr frćnda róge; fřđesk ulfr í skóge. Úr er af illu jarne; opt lřypr rćinn á hjarne. Ţurs vćldr kvinna kvillu; kátr vćrđr fár af illu. Óss er flćstra fćrđa fo,r; en skalpr er svćrđa. Rćiđ kveđa rossom vćsta; Reginn sló svćrđet bćzta. Kaun er barna bo,lvan; bo,l gřrver nán fo,lvan. Hagall er kaldastr korna; Kristr skóp hćimenn forna. Nauđr gerer nćppa koste; nřktan kćlr í froste. Ís ko,llum brú brćiđa; blindan ţarf at lćiđa. Ár er gumna góđe; get ek at o,rr var Fróđe. Sól er landa ljóme; lúti ek helgum dóme. Týr er ćinendr ása; opt vćrđr smiđr blása. Bjarkan er laufgrřnstr líma; Loki bar flćrđa tíma. Mađr er moldar auki; mikil er grćip á hauki. Lo,gr er, fćllr ór fjalle foss; en gull ero nosser. Ýr er vetrgrřnstr viđa; vćnt er, er brennr, at sviđa.
Haldrik 02-03-04, 09:08 PM	Old Icelandic Rune Poem Italics are a Latin translation - followed by an Old Icelandic royal epithet Fe - Wealth is the (cause of) strife among kinsmen, and the fire of the flood-tide and the path of the serpent. Gold - leader of the war-band Ur - Drizzle is the weeping of clouds, and the diminisher of the rim of ice, and (an object for) the herdsman's hate. Shadow (= overcast) - leader Thurs - Giant is the torment of women, and the dweller in the rocks, and the husband of Vardh-rúna (a giantess?). Saturn (= primordeal chaos god) - ruler of the thing Oss - Asa god is the olden-father (= Odinn), and Ásgardr's chieftain, and the leader of Valhöll. Jupiter (= preeminent order god) - point-leader Reid - Ride is a blessed sitting, and a swift journey, and the toil of the horse. Journey - worthy man Kaun - Infection is the bale of children, and a scourge, and the house of rotten flesh. Scourge (= plague) - king (= descendant of good kin) Hagall - Hail is a cold grain, and a shower of sleet, and the sickness (destroyer) of snakes. Hail - battle leader Naud - Need is the grief of the bondmaid, and a hard condition to be in, and toilsome work. Trouble (= insufficiency) - niflungr (= descendant of the dvergar? or the dead?) Iss - Ice is the rind of the river, and the roof of the waves, and a danger for fey men. Ice - one who wears the boar-helm Ar - Harvest is the profit of all men, and a good summer, and a ripened field. Year (= annual harvest) - all-ruler Sol - Sun is the shield of the clouds, and a shining glory, and the life-long sorrow (= destroyer) of ice. Wheel (= solar cycle) - descendant of the victorious one Tyr - victory god Tyr is the one-handed god, and the leavings of the wolf, and the ruler of the temple. Mars (= war god) - director Bjarkan - Birch Tree is a leafy limb, and a little tree, and a youthful wood. Silver fir (= evergreen birch) - protector Madr - Human is the joy of man, and the increase of dust, and the adornment of ships. Human - generous one Logr - Lake is churning water, and a wide kettle, and the land of fish. Lake - praise-worthy one Yr - Yew Tree is a strung bow, and brittle iron, and Farbauti (= the primordial giant) of the arrow. Bow - descendant of Yngvi Formatted and edited by Haldrik from Runelore, Edred Thorson (1987) Original in Old Icelandic Italics are the Latin translation, followed by an Old Icelandic royal epithet. Fé er frćnda róg ok flćđar viti ok grafseiđs gata aurum fylkir. Úr er skýja grátr ok skára ţverrir ok hirđis hatr. umbre vísi Ţurs er kvenna kvöl ok kletta búi ok varđrúnar verr. Saturnus ţengill. Óss er algingautr ok ásgarđs jöfurr, ok valhallar vísi. Jupiter oddviti. Reiđ er sitjandi sćla ok snúđig ferđ ok jórs erfiđi. iter rćsir. Kaun er barna böl ok bardaga [för] ok holdfúa hús. flagella konungr. Hagall er kaldakorn ok krapadrífa ok snáka sótt. grando hildingr. Nauđ er Ţýjar ţrá ok ţungr kostr ok vássamlig verk. opera niflungr. Íss er árbörkr ok unnar ţak ok feigra manna fár. glacies jöfurr. Ár er gumna góđi ok gott sumar algróinn akr. annus allvaldr. Sól er skýja skjöldr ok skínandi röđull ok ísa aldrtregi. rota siklingr. Týr er einhendr áss ok ulfs leifar ok hofa hilmir. Mars tiggi. Bjarkan er laufgat lim ok lí[...] tré ok ungsamligr viđr. abies buđlungr. Mađr er manns gaman ok moldar auki ok skipa skreytir. [...] mildingr. Lögr er vellanda vatn ok viđr ketill ok glömmungr grund. lacus lofđungr. Ýr er bendr bogi ok brotgjarnt járn ok fífu fárbauti. arcus ynglingr.
Haldrik 02-04-04, 03:31 AM	Basically, DnD elves are WRONG. In all European mythologies, especially Norse mythology, elves personify magic. Not only do they do magic, they ARE magic. The are the essence of magic. Even in JRR Tolkien, they personify magic, creating magic weapons, foreseeing the future, being immortal, and so on. DnD is inaccurate. Giving DnD elves a Dex bonus with Con penalty, but absolutely no magical advantage is innane. (Mythological elves personify good health!) There are two choices. 1, Change the meaning of elf entirely, redo all of the stats. Or 2, go with the DnD tradtion, accepting it as an entirely new invention, and make them Bards and Rangers. (Even mythology mentions the elvish sprites sing and dance). I do not mind the second option. Alf (Norse Elf) In the "Norse World Foundation" thread, I will eventually post the mythological version of elf, according to Norse mythology. It is entirely different from the DnD elf. I call the Norse elf, "alf" (plural, "alfar") after the Old Norse word. These beings are actually deities. Nevertheless, the alf/human hybrid being the equivalent of a demigod can function as a playable race of alf, with all the mythological themes. This (demi) alf does have special MAGICAL PROPENSITY and ABILITIES, including turning invisible, going ethereal, healing, magic item creation, and druidry and intuitive Wisdom (light alf) or wizardry and memorizing Intelligence (dark alf). There are also illusionary Bards and healing Rangers who fight with swords and arrows (mound alf). The weird thing is, some alf are superhumanly strong, some are superhumanly hardy. Some are superhumanly wise, some are superhumanly intelligent. And some are superhumanly beautiful. The best way to handle this is, the alf gets a clean +2 bonus on any chosen ability score. No penalty.
Zyfax 02-04-04, 06:40 AM	WOW, I am impressed. i remember an early post on this thread about paladins of tyr, well, whomever put him in forgotten realms were a copycat, had to read the description there: one handed that got his arm bitten off by a helldog, in norse mythology it was the fenris wolf (you got to put him in the bestiary, the big snake is far to good though, and they've got linnorms, try a one headed version with absolutely lethal blood)
Haldrik 02-06-04, 06:50 PM	Any thing you wish to write up add it.
Sertimon 02-07-04, 07:03 AM	Hi, all! A couple of years ago I and a few of my friends did school project called Frozen Mists, a d20 Viking Campaign Setting. It was loosely based on the d20 Modern rule set. The reason I post is that I can contribute with a few monsters such as Brookhorse (bäckahästen), Jormungand (jörmundgand), Liosalfar, Svartalfar, Troll, and a couple of more monsters that I don't remember.
Haldrik 02-11-04, 05:41 AM	Cool!
Sertimon 02-11-04, 08:00 AM	Here's the write-up we did for the Trolls in Frozen Mists. We tried to stay as true as possible to Scandinavian myths. Note that the setting takes place during the time when Christian missionaries had begun converting most of Europe. So it might differ somewhat from a Norse troll, particularly the unique weaknesses. I'll try to dig up some more monsters later. :D TROLL Large Giant (Darkborn) Hit Dice: 4d8+19 (37 hp) Initiative: +1 (+1 Dex) Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares) Armor Class: 19 (-1 size, +1 Dex, +6 natural, +3 hide armor) touch 10, flat-footed 19 Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+13 Attack: Claw +8 melee (1d6+6) Full Attack: 2 claws +8 melee (1d6+6) Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft. Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent, unique weakness Saves: Fort +8, Ref +2, Will +0 Abilities: Str 23, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 6, Wis 8, Cha 12 Skills: Climb +7, Listen +3, Spot +1, Survival +2 Feats: Alertness, Toughness Environment: Any forest or mountains Organization: Solitary or company (2-5) Challenge Rating: 4 Treasure: Double coins; standard goods (gems only); no items Alignment: Usually chaotic neutral Advancement: 5-8 HD (large); 9-12 HD (huge) Level Adjustment: -- Troll appearance can vary a lot, but they tend to be ugly, malicious and unpredictable creatures. They are very dangerous since they are much bigger and stronger than humans. A troll is easy to recognize because they have tails, pointed ears and a very broad nose. Unlike the woodnymph that lives alone, trolls like company and often live together in small groups. Trolls often live deep within the forests, perhaps under a huge rock or underground or even under an uprooted tree. They can also be found inside the deepest mountains. It's very unlikely that one would actually meet at troll, since they make themselves invisible. They use this ability to steal food and even swap their own children for a human child. Not that trolls do not appreciate their own kind, only that they really want their children to be raised as humans. Trolls are very greedy and take all the gold and silver that they can find. A common phrase in Sweden is "rich like a troll", referring to the fact that trolls hoard treasures and often used to describe a wealthy person. Finding such as treasure is very hard since trolls can make it appear as something else. Trolls also tend do dislike the sun and often hunt when it's dark. Others must never be exposed to sunlight or they will instantly turn to stone. COMBAT Trolls fight with sharp claws and tend to attack the strongest foe first, potentially scarring of other intruders. Trolls generally flee when outmatched by humans, either by running or using magic. They will, however, struggle to death in order to protect their hoard of coins and gems. Spell-like Abilities (Sp): 3/day—invisibility (self only); 1/day—curse of ill fortune (DC 13), detect magic, magic fang, meld into stone, scare (DC 13), silent image. Caster level 5th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. Unique Weakness (Ex): A troll has one of the following unique weaknesses described below: Vulnerable to Church Bells: A troll that is caught within 500 feet from a church and clearly hears the sound of church bells instantly turns into a Large rock. Vulnerable to Holy Places: A troll hates anything that has to do with Christianity and tries to avoid it at all cost. Therefore, the troll cannot enter holy placers, such as a Christian church. Light Blindness: A troll exposed to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds the troll for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled while operating in bright light. Stone Curse: A troll exposed to direct sunlight for one round turns instantly into stone. True Name: If a troll’s true name is ever pronounced by a Christian he instantly turns to stone.
Haldrik 03-07-04, 02:14 PM	Sertimon: Vulnerable to Church Bells: A troll that is caught within 500 feet from a church and clearly hears the sound of church bells instantly turns into a Large rock. This is harsh! Hear a bell and die? I know there are stories like this, but I also know of a story of a troll that used to love to hang around a church and cast illusions to make the church look beautiful. Clearly this troll had no vulnerablity to church bells. How about explaining the death bell toll this way. It wasn't an ordinary bell. Rather this bell was the holy symbol of a particularly powerful Cleric. In other words, any lawful Cleric can turn or destroy (some) chaotic trolls as if they were undead. (It wouldn't matter if the Cleric was lawful good or lawful evil.) Oppositely, any chaotic Cleric can rebuke or command trolls as if they were undead. (It wouldn't matter if the Cleric was chaotic good or chaotic evil.) I like the idea of trolls personifying chaos, and thus (some of them) are vulnerable to lawful/chaos spells. Regarding petrifying in sunlight. Some trolls (who have mostly dverg blood) petrify in sunlight and die. Some trolls (who have about 50% dverg 50% thursar blood) petrify in sunlight temporarily but then return to normal when the sunlight leaves. Some trolls (who have mostly thursar blood) are not affected negatively by sunlight at all. Sun sensitive trolls often cast mist/cloud/fog spells to obscure the sunlight so they can go out at day time. Also, Trolls personify magic. The word "troll" might originally have meant "enchantment", literally, and thus "enchanter", and finally came to mean the wild giant who was an enchanter. Most trolls should be high level spellcasters like humans: Illusionists, Druids with ("troll medicine"), Witches, Enchanters. Probably they are spontaneous spellcasters like Sorcerers, even tho they definitely have healing skills. They also have an extremely high Charisma, but of course this always translates into "intimidating" Charisma for humans. Humans are always stunned, amazed, respectful, and terrified when encountering a troll (except in the stories where the young boy is too naive to know he is in danger). I just don't know what to do about the troll's Int and Wis scores. Clearly there is something "wrong" with their brains. I know one story, where a troll demanded to cook and eat a young human boy. The boy said, this would be fine, but only if the boy could eat the leftovers afterward. The troll thought this was a really good deal, and the troll and the boy swore an oath to seal the deal. Only later did the troll realize he would not be able to eat the kid because he had to be alive to eat the leftovers. So the boy was able to go home free, safe and sound, and got what he came for. The troll could not think things through and so has a very poor Int. However the troll has an extremely good memory, remembering things from centuries ago, as if they were hours ago. So this means they have very high Int. They know things, but can't figure them out. They are the ultimate "photographic memory", but this includes songs and verses for spellcasting. They would never need spellbooks, for they would simply remember everything! Wis too is a problem to rate. Surely, trolls are extremely observant of their environments, with keen smelling, keen hearing, spotting things, and so on. Trolls are also stubborn beyond belief, which might suggest strong Will save? It's just so hard to rate troll mental abilities. What are troll Int and Wis scores? It's so tricky.
Haldrik 03-07-04, 02:35 PM	Here is an extremely interesting study about the dark elves in Norse mythology. They are obviously important but information about them is so fragmentary. Reaves puts together the information in a brilliant way. In general, the gist of his reconstruction is this: o .. Ivaldi is a svart-álf (“black elf”), also called a dřkk-álf (“dark elf”). He married Greip the jötun (giant). Their children, the Sons of Ivaldi, are friends and allies of the gods, giving them magical treasures freely. o .. Loki instigates a contest of the artists, in which the works of the dark elves, Ivaldi’s Sons, and of the dwarves, Brokk and Sindri, are compared with one another. o .. At the behest of Loki, the gods compare the works made by the Sons of Ivaldi to the works of Sindri. The gods prefer Sindri's masterpiece, the hammer Mjöllnir (not because it is beautiful, indeed its handle is deformed, but because it is such a powerful weapon), and by default the works of the Sons of Ivaldi are deemed inferior. o .. Thus even tho the work of the dark elves is more beautiful and more skilled than that of the dwarves, the gods choose the dwarven work for its utility in the final battle of Ragnarok. o .. Fearing the reaction of Ivaldi’s sons, Odin, Hoenir, and Loki travel to the home of these elves, perhaps to appease them. o .. Thjazi, the half-dark elf/half-giant son of Ivaldi, and the group’s primary artist, thwarts the gods’ best effort at peace and strong-arms Loki into luring Idunn, his half-sister way from Asgard with her treasure, the apples of rejuvenation that keep the gods young. Idunn is fully dark elven the daughter of Ivaldi and an elven mother. She is gone for some time. o .. The Sons of Ivaldi go into exile in the furthest reaches of Niflheim, in the far north of the underworld where the gods have no sway. Idunn and her sisters, the swan-maidens, join them and their cause. o .. While in the Wolfdales, Thjazi-Völund creates a sword, to which he applies all his skill and cunning. The weapon is designed to destroy Asgard and its inhabitants. (It is the same sword Surt eventually uses to set the world aflame.) In addition to this, he and his brothers chant magic songs, which send out devastating storms toward Midgard. Odin is powerless to stop them. o .. In time, the swan-maidens leave and Thjazi-Völund is captured by a friend of the gods. Völund’s sword, most dangerous to the gods, is taken from him and kept by Mimir (by “the satyr Mimingus” in Saxo’s History and under “Mimir’s Tree” in Fjölsvinnsmál. Clues which point to Nidhad’s identity with Mimir himself). o .. Idunn and her sisters most likely return to Thjazi’s mountain-home, Thyrmheim, where Idunn bears Thjazi’s daughter Skadi. o .. Thjazi-Völund escapes Nidhad-Mimir’s underworld prison, and returns to Thyrmheim to be with Idunn and Skadi. o .. After many years, the gods grow old and force Loki to regain Idunn and her apples. Under threat of injury, Loki steals into Thjazi’s abode and kidnaps Idunn. He entices Thjazi to follow. o .. Thjazi recklessly pursues Loki and is burnt and killed on Asgard’s walls. o .. To honor their former friend, the gods turn Thjazi’s eyes into stars and intermarry with the dark elf clan: Thor weds Sif, Bragi weds Idunn, and Njord marries Skadi. o .. The mythic epic continues with the saga surrounding the fate of Völund’s sword. Sources for Norse Alfar http://www.boudicca.de/wpb-002.htm The Aesir & The Elves: The sons of Ivaldi William P. Reaves © Copyright 2002 William P. Reaves Permission granted for Boudicca's bard to publish this article “We have to be content with an imperfect and patchy understanding of the old religion. But this does not entitle us to assume that the religion itself was correspondingly primitive or incomplete. We must bear in mind that no extensive direct information about the pagan religion was recorded until fully two centuries after the conversion to Christianity, and the generations which had come and gone meanwhile were, or were supposed to be, hostile to these pagan heresies.” “The most ancient poems in the Edda also show various signs of abridgement and alteration – some of which of course may be due to editing or error in the written stage. On the other hand, it seems an inescapable conclusion that stories told in prose must always have existed alongside stories told in verse. Many of the heroic lays are shaped in such a way that it is evident the poets assumed more knowledge of the subject-matter on the audience’s part than the poems themselves encompass: a whole legend is there as a backdrop to the verse.” __Professor Jónas Kristjánsson, retired head of the Arni Magnússon Institute in Reykjavik, Iceland writing in “Icelandic Manuscripts: Sagas, History, and Art”; translated by Jeffrey Cosser; The Icelandic Literary Society, 1996. The Aesir and the Elves share a special relationship. They are frequently named together in the lore: Hávamál 159: "If in the company of men I must enumerate the gods, both Aesir and Elves. I know the distinctions of all... " Hávamál 160: "...Strength to the Aesir, and valor to Elves." Lokasenna 2, 13, 30 "Of the Aesir and Elves seated herein..." Völuspá 48, Ţyrmskviđa 7: "How is it with the Aesir and the Elves?" Grímnismál 4: “The land that I see lying near the Aesir and the Elves” Sigrdrífumál 18: “They are among the Aesir; they are among the Elves” The skalds often associate the Aesir and the Elves, yet seemingly little is known about the Elf tribe, esteemed enough by the ancient skalds to be called tíva, “gods” (Hávamál 159). By examining the many references in Eddaic and skaldic poems to them, we can learn much about the Elves. The Sons of Ivaldi In the mythic sources, we find two similar groupings of elves: the renowned artisans known as Ivaldi’s Sons (Ívaldasynir) and the tragic artisan Völund (Wayland Smith) along with his brothers, Egil and Slagfin. In regard to the Sons of Ivaldi, the Younger Edda contains a mythic fragment, which seeks to inform us why gold can be referred to as “Sif’s hair”. This is commonly recognized as the story of how Thor obtained his hammer Mjöllnir. In Skáldskaparmál 35, we are told that out of his love for mischief, Loki once cut off all of Sif’s hair. And that when Thor learned of this, he threatened to break every bone in Loki’s body, unless he proceeded to “black elves” (svartálfum) and have them make hair of gold for Sif that would grow like natural hair. First Loki visits the dark elves, Ivaldi’s Sons, who make the hair for Sif, the ship Skidbladnir for Frey, and the spear Gungnir for Odin. Confusingly, these dark elves are also called “dwarves” (dverga), not because they are small but because they are metal workers who live underground like dwarves do. Afterwards, Loki wagers his head with the dwarf Brokk, that his brother Sindri (or Eitri) can not make three treasures as good as these. Although Loki tries his best to thwart their efforts, Sindri creates the boar Gullinbursti for Frey, the ring Draupnir for Odin, and the hammer Mjöllnir for Thor. Ultimately, the gods judge their work superior. But Loki, true to form, escapes his obligations and tricks the artists out of their prize: his head. Denied the right to cut off Loki’s head, Brokk sews Loki’s lips shut instead. We are not informed how the Sons of Ivaldi reacted to the judgment, because they were not present. The authenticity of this myth is confirmed in part by a poetic reference found in Grímnismál, verse 43, which states: Ivaldi’s sons went in days of old to form Skidbladnir the best of ships, for bright Frey, Njörd´s benign son The only other poetic reference to the Sons of Ivaldi appears in the Eddaic poem Hrafnagaldur Óđins, recently judged by the Icelandic scholar Jónas Kristjánsson to be an authentic part of the Eddaic canon. The poem relates a tale about the time Idunn was absent from Asgard. Hrafnagaldur Óđins, verse 6, reads: Dwells in dales the curious dis, from Yggdrasil’s ash descended, of elven kin, Idunn by name, Ivaldi’s youngest elder child . Here we learn Idunn is the daughter of Ivaldi. Furthermore, she is of the elven race. It is important to note that Ivaldi had two sets of children, a younger set and an older set. Idunn is the youngest of the first (i.e. the older) set. Since they have the same father, it is logical to conclude that these sets of children had different mothers. Thus Idunn is either the sister or half-sister of the famous artisans, the Sons of Ivaldi. That they are called elves here should not be considered a contradiction. In Skáldskaparmál, as we have seen, they are referred to both as svartálfar and as dvergar. And in this regard, we should remember that Völuspá’s dwarf-list contains the names of several elves: Alfr, Gandalf, Vindalf, etc. Apparently, these distinctions are not as clear-cut as we have come to believe. The sources have nothing more to say about Ivaldi’s sons. However in regard to the name Ivaldi, we find two parallel forms that may be of significance: Ölvaldi and Allvaldi. In Skáldskaparmál 4, we learn that Ölvaldi has 3 sons: Thjazi, Idi, and Gang. . (A parallel trio of names appears in a poetic source, the Grotto-song, verse 9: Thjazi, Idi, and Aurnir.) This Thjazi, we are told, is the same being that once kidnapped Idunn along with her apples of rejuvenation. Similarly, in Hárbardsljóđ 19, the father of the giant of whose eyes Thor made stars is called Allvaldi. Thus Ölvaldi and Allvaldi are variant forms of the same name. And since we find this name in at least two forms, we should consider the possibility that there are other forms as well. What these names have in common is the suffix –valdi. Thus, perhaps, Ivaldi also belongs to this group. But do the sources give us any indication that the sons of Ölvaldi-Allvaldi are smiths, like Ivaldi’s sons are? Following the tale of Idunn’s abduction, Snorri tells a curious story about the Sons of Ölvaldi. He says that after their father’s death, Thjazi and his brothers divided his gold among them, taking equal shares of it in their mouth. Thus gold may be referred to as the speech of these giants. As proof of this, we find two kennings for gold in the partially preserved ancient poem Bjarkamál in fornu, quoted in Skáldskaparmál 45. They are Thjaza thingskil, “Thjazi’s testimony”, and Iđja glysmál, “Idi’s shining speech”. Examining these kennings, we have good reason to doubt the veracity of Snorri’s explanation. It almost seems as if it were made up on the spot to explain the kennings for gold, Thjaza thingskil and Iđja glysmál. More and more, scholars are recognizing that Snorri created stories such as this to explain obscure passages in the older poems. Here we find this quick explanation grafted onto the end of the story of Thjazi and Idunn. Thus it bears closer examination. Thingskil properly refers to testimony before a court (i.e. a “Thing”). Anthony Faulkes defines it as “assembly business”, “assembly declarations” (“Skáldskaparmál: Glossary and Index of Names”). Why would gold be designated as “Thjazi’s testimony before a Thing”? Do we know of any mythic circumstance in which golden works of art, made by Thjazi, serve as testimony in a court case? If Ölvaldi-Allvaldi’s son Thjazi, is also one of Ivaldi’s sons, then the answer is yes. In the contest of the artists described above, the Sons of Ivaldi were not present, when their works were judged before a tribunal of the gods. Their golden works of art were mute testimony of their skill as artisans. Because Ivaldi’s sons were not present to speak for themselves, their work figuratively spoke for them. If Thjazi and Idi, Ölvaldi-Allvaldi’s sons, were considered identical to Ivaldi’s sons, then the kennings Thjaza thingskil, Thjazi’s testimony, as well as Iđja glysmál, “Idi’s shining speech” find their natural explanation. That gold which was held in the mouth should be referred to as thingskil is improbable. From the analysis of the names Ivaldi, Ölvaldi, and Allvaldi found in scattered fragments, shown in part above, it is becoming clearer that Idunn and Thjazi may have been regarded as half-brother and sister by the Eddaic poets. So, with this as a tentative conclusion, let’s examine the tale of Idunn and Thjazi. In Skáldskaparmál 56, which uses the skaldic poem Haustlöng as its guide, we learn that one day when Odin, Loki, and Hoenir, are out wandering (the reason for their journey is not stated), they meet the giant Thjazi, sitting in a nearby tree cloaked in eagle-guise. The gods have killed a tálhreinn, “decoy-reindeer”, and are attempting to roast it, but magic prevents the meat from cooking. Only when they agree to share their meal with Thjazi does the meat cook. However, before they can eat it, the eagle swoops down and consumes all the meat. In anger, Loki picks up a conveniently placed rod and strikes the eagle across the back. To Loki’s chagrin, the rod sticks to the eagle’s back, and to his hands. He cannot let it loose. In an instant, the eagle flies off dragging Loki over rocks and trees. When he is able, Loki pleads for mercy and the eagle agrees to release him on the condition that he lure Idunn from Asgard. Loki agrees to this condition and is set free. Sometime later, Loki lies to Idunn, telling her that he has discovered apples comparable to hers outside Asgard. When they go to investigate, Thjazi promptly abducts Idunn. Apparently many years pass, as the gods grow old, without her apples to restore their youth. When they are quite aged, they compel Loki to return Idunn to them. Using Freyja’s falcon-guise, he enters Thjazi’s gard, changes Idunn into a nut and takes flight with her. Clad in eagle-guise, Thjazi follows and is burnt on Asgard’s wall. Sometime thereafter, Thjazi’s daughter Skadi comes to Asgard demanding wergild for her father’s death. The gods appease her by allowing her to choose a husband from their number. In this story we find Idunn, Ivaldi’s daughter, closely associated with Thjazi, Ölvaldi-Allvaldi’s son. This cannot be coincidence. Since the Younger Edda does not inform us of any consequences following the judgment on the artists, we have assumed there were none. But now, when we recognize Ölvaldi-Allvaldi’s son Thjazi as one of the Sons of Ivaldi, these two mythic fragments come together like broken shards of a shattered urn, and these two seemingly independent mythic fragments reveal scenes of a larger picture: 1) The Sons of Ivaldi (Thjazi, Idi, and Gang-Aurnir) have been deeply insulted by the judgment on their work, which they had given freely to the gods. 2) Odin, Hoenir, and Loki visit their realm, perhaps to appease them. Since the Sons of Ivaldi were not present at the judgment, the gods must travel to their home. Before they arrive, they are met and intercepted by Thjazi. Loki in particular, as the instigator of the contest of the artists, is the target of Thjazi’s wrath. Thjazi treats him badly dragging him over trees and rocks. 3) Thjazi wants Idunn, his sister and her golden apples, most probably a product of his magic forge, away from the gods. With this in mind, we should note the plentiful magic implements in this tale: the feather-cloak, the adhesive rod, the decoy-reindeer, and the oven that will not cook. These may be regarded as products of the Ivaldi sons’ art. That the heathen skalds regarded Ivaldi’s sons as identical to Ölvaldi-Allvaldi’s sons, should now be apparent. But before we regard it as conclusive, let us ask: Is this corroborated by any other source? For the sake of simplicity, I will cite just one. In Lokasenna 17, Loki insults Idunn by saying: “Shut up, Idunn! of all women I declare you to be the most fond of men, since you laid your arms, carefully washed, around your brother´s bane” Here Loki accuses Idunn of embracing her brother’s killer. The identity of Idunn’s brother has long befuddled the scholars, whose theories range from the mundane to the fanciful. John Lindow simply says that “the identity of her brother and the killer remain unknown.” (“Handbook of Norse Mythology”) while, Ursula Dronke in her “Poetic Edda Volume II” (pg. 359), remarks: “Loki is upbraiding Iđunn for a mythological situation in which she found herself. As goddess of the constantly renewed spring of life, Iđunn belongs to the same mythologem as the Vanir. They took as consort their brother or sister. If this marital custom applied to Iđunn, the husband who was killed in the seasonal contest for possession of her would be her brother, and the winner of her, her “bróđurbani” (brother’s bane). …The situation Loki castigates here in relation to Iđunn cannot be relevant to Bragi. He has just been mocked for martial cowardice; he cannot now be seen as the May-Queen winning champion.” Why Dronke identifies Idunn with the “May Queen” is uncertain, and moreover unnecessary, since a far simpler answer lies close at hand. Idunn’s lover is not named, but Loki adds that she washed her arms white, a detail only she and her lover would know. We should consider that he makes similar accusations against Sif and Skadi in the same poem. He says directly that he was their lover. (Lokasenna 52, and 54). To Sif, he says: “but one I know, and, I think, know him well, was whoring and on Hlorridi (Thor), and that is the wily Loki.” We are not told elsewhere that Loki ever seduced Sif or Idunn. But from the available sources, it’s clear that he certainly has had the opportunity. He once got close enough to Sif to cut off all her hair (a sign of adultery in old Germanic culture; Tacitus, Germania 19), and, when he stole into Thjazi’s abode and changed Idunn into a nut, he presumably was alone with her. Whether his accusations are true or not, Loki can claim to have been these goddesses’ lover with impunity. Only he and they know what happened when they were alone. Thus he is free to say what he would like. Therefore, in all probability, when Loki says that Idunn embraced her brother’s murderer, he means that she embraced him. This interpretation is consistent with the thrust of his other boasts. The detail of her arm-washing, adds weight to this conclusion. Since Idunn is the daughter of Ivaldi, it stands to reason that Loki murdered one of the famous artisans, the Sons of Ivaldi In Lokasenna, Loki admits to only two murders. To Frigg, he admits that he is the reason that “Baldur is no longer seen riding to halls,” (Lokasenna 28) and to Skadi, he admits being “the foremost when your father was slain” (Lokasenna 51). Skadi’s father is well-known to have been the giant Thjazi. Other sources confirm that Loki brought about the death of Thjazi, Allvaldi-Ölvaldi’s son, by luring him in hot pursuit to Asgard, where he would ultimately die in a fire raging around Asgard’s wall. We have no indication whatsoever that Baldur was Idunn’s brother, thus we are left with Thjazi, providing further circumstantial evidence that Thjazi is Idunn’s brother, whom Loki, her supposed lover, helped murder. In the context of the poem, it is the simplest answer. Still there is room to doubt. One may ask, how can Idunn and Thjazi be siblings, if Idunn is an elf and Thjazi is said to be the kin of giants? Haustlöng provides a clue. In verse 13, Thjazi is referred to as sonr bíđils Greipar, “the son of Greip’s wooer”. Greip is the name of a giantess. Thus Thjazi is the son of a giantess. Thjazi’s father, Ivaldi, was her wooer. Going back to Hrafnagaldur Óđins 6, recall that Ivaldi had two sets of children, a younger set and an older set. Idunn is the youngest of the older set. The younger set therefore seems to have been produced by Ivaldi’s union with a giantess. Thus the Sons of Ivaldi are half-giant and half-elf, while Idunn and her full-blooded siblings are pure elf. That the gods held Thjazi in high esteem is made clear by the fact that either Thor or Odin made stars of his eyes. (Skáldskaparmál 56, Hárbardsljóđ 19). Thor also bestows a similar honor on his friend Aurvandil (Skáldskaparmál 17), whom he rescued from the Elivagor on his return from Jotunheim. When he discovers that Aurvandil’s toe was exposed and became frostbitten, Thor broke it off and threw it into the heavens, where it became a new star. Thor honors Thjazi in a similar manner. That Thjazi’s daughter Skadi is allowed to choose a husband from among the Aesir as just compensation for her father’s death, also points in this direction. Thjazi’s death must represent a special case. If not, we should expect a steady stream of giantesses appearing at Asgard’s gate demanding such compensation. By what all has been stated above, it is evident that for a time, the Sons of Ivaldi were the friends of the gods, and then for a time they were their enemies. This interpretation sheds light on the events of Hrafnagaldur Óđins. Which tells us that while Idunn was absent from Asgard (when she fell out of Yggdrasil, as an apple falls from a tree), she joined their cause: The divinities see Nauma (Idunn) grieving In the wolf’s home Given a wolf’s skin She clad herself therein, Changed disposition, Delighted in guile, Shifted her shape. Since we know only one myth, regarding a time when Idunn was absent from Asgard, the poem no doubt describes the time Idunn spent with her half-brother Thjazi. The poem informs us that she “delighted in guile” suggesting that she joined his plan of revenge against the gods. If they were regarded as related, this is naturally explained. The duties of her blood-obligation would demand that she do so. Considered in isolation, this poem has been thought obscure, but no longer if we consider it within the context of the corpus of poetic and prose sources, which reveal the relationship between Idunn and the Sons of Ivaldi. In this light, let’s take a closer look at Hrafnagaldur Óđins: The poem begins with a catalog of mythic beings, presumably the observations of one of Odin’s ravens as it flies through the worlds: Allfather works, Elves understand Vanir know Norns reveal, etc. Interestingly, the verb associated with the elves here, skilja, “understand” also means “to separate, to part (from someone)”. If we interpret the poem as the story of the elves severing their friendly relations with Asgard, both meanings are relevant. Immediately afterwards, a dire scene unfolds. The Aesir suspect that “evil wights” have confounded the weather with runes, Urd is appointed to protect Mimir’s well from the cold; the sun, here represented by her horse Alsvidr, begins to fail; and the “ruin of men” is feared. Earth and Sun cannot stand firm, malignant winds (corrupted air) do not cease The cause of these maladies is identified in verse 10: They chanted galdur rode on wolves Rögnir and Reginn against the world’s house Odin listened in Hlidskjalf. Here the culprits are designated as Rögnir and Reginn, terms which usually refer to the gods themselves. Sveinbjörn Egilsson in his Lexicon Poeticum defines Rögnir as an Odin-name, and reginn as a common substitute for “gods”, (like the term tívar, which includes both Aesir and elves in Hávamál 159). Previous translators of Hrafnagaldur Óđins such as Benjamin Thorpe have therefore interpreted Rögnir and Reginn as “Odin and the gods”. Yet something seems amiss; even Thorpe qualifies this interpretation with a question mark. That the gods are not meant here is clear from the context. While Rögnir and Reginn chant their galdur “against the world’s house,” Odin listens in Hildskjalf, his observation tower in Valhalla. Clearly these are enemies of Midgard, the “house” built by the gods (cp. Völuspá’s salar and húsi, 2 & 17). From the surrounding verses, we gather that their songs have a devastating effect on the weather. Surely, this Rögnir and Reginn are identical to the “evil wights” in verse 2. They “ride on wolves”, a common attribute of giantesses. Since we find Idunn in wolf-form (verse 8), we may also infer a sexual connotation. While all this occurs, Idunn, “the youngest of Ivaldi’s elder children”, wrapped in wolf-skin, also “delights in guile.” That Ivaldi’s children are invoked in the manner must have reason. The famous smiths, Ivaldi’s sons, are immediately brought to mind. That they would be called Rögnir and Reginn, names which have reference to the gods finds its explanation in the close connection between these two groups of tívar (gods). Since this reference comes in the context of a poem, in which the elves directly challenge the power of the gods, and no doubt wish to be gods themselves, it is aptly chosen, and may also explain the significance of Thjazi eating all the meat prepared for the gods, if we interpret the meat as a sacrifice. Several elements of Hrafnagaldur Óđins hark back to the mythic story of Idunn and Thjazi found in Haustlöng. First Idunn is called forvitin, a word meaning both curious and prescient. The meaning “curious” may refer to the story told by Snorri of how Loki lured Idunn from Asgard. He said that outside of Asgard, she would find some apples worth having, and told her to bring hers for comparison. Certainly she was curious enough to follow him. Both names Rögnir and Regin are found again in kennings for Thjazi. In Haustlöng 4, Thjazi is designated as ving-Rögnir vagna, “the Rögnir of the wind-wagons” (or possibly “wind-dolphins”) , and in verse 12 as leikblađs reginn fjađrar, “the Regin of the feather’s swinging leaf-blade (i.e. wing). Both of these designations probably refer to the fact that he is cloaked in eagle-guise, but reginn specifically may allude to his creation of additional bird-guises, such as Frigg and Freyja’s falcon-guises, and the dresses of the swan-maidens found in Völundarkviđa. As an artist friendly to the gods, his art would seem like the logical origin of such items. Ironically then, Loki lures Thjazi to his death using one of these devices against him, Freyja’s falcon form. Names in the stem of a kenning need not have any mythical significance, but certainly the meaning is deepened when they do. As in Hrafnagaldur Óđins, the names Rögnir and Reginn are again associated with a dangerous enemy of the gods. In Haustlöng 6, the poet refers to Thjazi as dolg ballastan vallar, “earth’s mightest foe”, a designation which corresponds well with the “evil wights” of Hrafnagaldur Óđins, who confound the weather with runes. Taken together, what underlies these mythic fragments appears to be a larger tale regarding the elves, Ivaldi’s sons, and how Loki turned their friendship and generosity into enmity for the gods. Thus we find a group of brothers, who are smiths, filled with thoughts of revenge, and who now hate the gods and seek to destroy their creation. A similar situation occurs in Völundarkviđa, the tale of perhaps the most famous artist in all Germanic lore: Völund (Wayland Smith). Traces of his myth can be found in personal names recorded as far back as the seventh century in Germany, as carved scenes on an eighth century whalebone chest, and as references in several Anglo-Saxon poetic sources including Beowulf and Doer’s Lament that can be dated prior to 900AD. In Scandinavia, a reference to Thjazi as grjót-Niđađ in Haustlöng, composed in the 10th century, demonstrates that its poet Ţjóđólfr of Hvin may have known some form of the legend. First it should be noted that Völundarkviđa’s position in Codex Regius has long been questioned by the scholars. It was placed by the scribe between Ţrymskviđa and Álvismál. However, since the poem tells the story of a legendary smith and does not seem to refer to any known mythic circumstance, scholars question why it was placed among the mythological poems, and not the heroic poems, where they feel it best belongs. To date, no conclusive answer has been reached, although several theories have been expounded. Paul Taylor, in Medieval Scandinavia: An Encyclopedia, writes “his Norse appellation ‘Lord of the Elves’ (álfa dróttin) seems to have led the MS redactor into associating him with myth. Völundr is probably not a native figure of Scandinavian lore.” An examination of the poem may reveal a more logical answer. Völundarkviđa relates the tale of three brothers, Völund, Egil, and Slagfin sons of a Finnish king, who live in a land referred to as the Wolfdales. After a time, they are joined by three swan-maidens: Alvit (also called Hervör), Ölrun, and Svanhvit (also called Hladguđ). But after eight winters, the swan-maidens are overcome with longing, and in the ninth they leave. Egil and Slagfinn pursue them, leaving Völund alone in the Wolfdales. In time he is captured by Nidhad and his men, hamstrung, and imprisoned on an island. Völund forges treasures for Nidhad, but his thirst for revenge is not assuaged. He secretly kills two of Nidhad’s sons, and makes goblets of their skulls for the king to drink from, jewels of their eyes, and brooches of their teeth for the queen. Völund further plys Nidhad’s daughter with strong drink and then rapes her. He secretly fashions a bird-guise, which he uses to escape, and before flying off, reveals his acts of revenge to Nidhad, after making him vow he will do his daughter and the child she carries no harm. Several points of contact connect Völundarkviđa with the mythic fragments mentioned above. Foremost, Völund is called “elf-prince” and “lord of elves” (álfa ljóđi, vísi álfa, verses 11, 14 and 32), like Ivaldi’s children, who are referred to as álfa ćttar, of the elf race (Hrafnagaldur Óđins 6.) Like them, Völund forges magic implements. In Völundarkviđa, he makes a sword to which he applies all his cunning, and in a land where there is no gold, he produces 700 rings. Since only one of these rings interests Nidhad, we might suspect Völund has forged a ring like Draupnir, which replicates itself periodically. In captivity, he turns the eyes of Mimir’s young sons into jewels, and later devises a winged-guise to make his escape. After noting “significant resemblances” between the elves of the Eddaic poems and the Ribhus of Sanskrit Rigveda, which both derive from a common Indo-European root, Ursula Dronke writes: “I would suggest that the titles of Völundr, álfa ljöđi, vísi álfa, relate to an old tradition in which álfar were subtle smiths before the popularity of the dwarfs as underground metal workers made the elves’ title forgotten.” The name of Völund’s home in exile, the Wolfdales, alludes to Idunn’s home once she has fallen out of” Yggdrassil as described in Hrafnagaldur Óđins 6. There Idunn is said to “dwell in dales”, when she dons “wolf-skin”. This appears to be a poetic allusion to Völundarkviđa’s “Wolfdales.” The three brothers are presented as skiers and hunters, traits associated in our mythology most closely with Thjazi’s daughter Skadi and Sif’s son, Ull. In Haustlöng 7, Skadi is referred to as öndurgođs , the ski-goddess. In Völundarkviđa, Völund hunts bear on skis, and when the swan-maidens depart, Egil and Slagfinn set off on skis after them. That they are called sons of a Finnish king in the prose introduction, also points in this direction. Finns are well-known as skiers and sorcerers from the sagas and law-codes of Iceland and Scandinavia. Similarly, Haustlöng 3 calls the meat the Aesir catch near Thjazi’s home a tál-hreinn, a decoy reindeer, an animal herded by the Finns down to modern times. In geographic terms, the Finns lay between the Scandinavians and the Arctic Ocean beyond which the giants were thought to dwell, east and north of Scandinavia. In mytho-historic terms, the elves and Finns were therefore equated. In regard to the traditions concerning Völund’s parentage, we should also take into account Thidrek’s Saga, an Old Icelandic prose account of the broader Völund legend based on German poetic sources. There the smith Velent (Völund), is depicted as half-giant, the son of a giant and a mermaid. (His father is named Vati, perhaps a contraction of -Valdi?). Thus we have the same ‘confusion’ surrounding Völund’s birth as we have surrounding Thjazi’s. He seemingly is an elf and a giant at the same time. The physical proximity of the mythic lands of the giants and elves likely fueled the imagination in regard to such relationships between the two tribes. Like Thjazi, whose father was said to be rich in gold, Völund laments in verse 15: “I remember that we owned a greater treasure when we were a whole family in our home.” He then refers to the swan-maidens, suggesting they are his kin. From Hrafnagaldur Óđins, we learn that at least one of his female companions is his half-sister Idunn. In Haustlöng 9, we find Thjazi designated as grjót-Niđuđ, “Nidhad of the stones.” Ursula Dronke in The Poetic Edda Volume II, The Mythological Poems observes: “The source for his kenning can only have been the legend of Völundr”. Similar kennings for giants in other poems include berg-Ţórr, and grjót-Mođi. Here Thjazi is designated as “Nidhad of the stones”, Nidhad being the famous foe of Völund. In Völundarkviđa, special attention is paid to Völund’s eyes. First he is called “weather-eyed”, veđeygr (verse 10). Later when Völund is captured in Nidhad’s snare, his eyes are said to “glisten” when he sees his sword in Nidhad’s belt, and his ring on the arm of Nidhad’s daughter (verse 17). In light of Hrafnagaldur Óđins description of Rögnir and Regin raising malignant winds with galdur chants, the term “weather-eyed” finds significance. Certainly as a conjurer of foul weather, Rögnir kept his eyes on the weather. And since we know that Thjazi’s eyes were changed into stars, that Völund’s eyes are referred to as “glittering” may also allude to this well-known mythic feature. Although Völund exacts terrible revenge by the end of the poem, killing two of Nidhad’s sons and raping his daughter, when Völund flies away, he boasts that he has now avenged all of his injuries except one (verse 28). What this unavenged injury is however remains a mystery. Scholars such as Ursula Dronke, who discusses this verse at length, find it problematic enough to emend Völund’s words to say “Now I have avenged my injuries-- not one, but all of the envious snares.” Other translators have not been so liberal, but the problem remains: What affront is there left for Völund to avenge? If we accept Völund as the name of a Son of Ivaldi, whose works are judged inferior to that of Brokk and Sindri, the answer is clear. His reputation as a master smith remains tarnished. To learn how that grave insult is avenged, long after Völund’s death, we need only follow the fate of the sword taken from him by Nidhad, something beyond the scope of this article. Yet, even if Völund and his brothers can be identified as the Sons of Ivaldi, the identity of the swan-maidens remains elusive. Again, a comparison of the poetic fragments yields fruit. In both Völundarkviđa and Hrafnagaldur Óđins, the women who reside with the artisans in exile are unhappy. Völundarkviđa says they “ached with longing”, while Hrafnagaldur Óđins informs us that “Nauma (Idunn) was grieving”, before she donned wolf-guise. Verse 7 of Hrafnagaldur Óđins elaborates on this theme: Ill she endured the fall from above under the hoar-tree’s (Yggdrasil’s) trunk confined, disliked staying at Nörvi’s daughters used to better abodes back home. Why would Idunn and her siblings, be discontent in the company of their brothers? To answer this, we must examine the nature of swan-maidens. Swans are creatures accustomed to warmth and light. In the mythology, they are associated with Urd’s well. Snorri informs us that all swans originate from a pair of these birds in Urd’s well (Gylfaginning 16). In Völundarkviđa 1, they are referred to as “southern maids” (drósir suđrćnar); whereas in a loose verse by the skald Eilífr Guđrúnarson preserved in Skáldskaparmál 52, we discover Urd’s well too is located in the south: sunnr at Urđrbrunni. In Völundarkviđa, the swan-maidens weave and must “fulfill fate”, örlög drýja. (verses 1 & 3), both allusions which refer back to the Norns who weave the threads of fate on the loom of the sky. In Hrafnagaldur Óđins and Völundarkviđa, the women are clearly out of their element. To arrive in the Wolfdales, the swan-maidens must fly “from the south” (i.e. toward the North), through the Myrkwood (Dark-wood). Völundarkviđa depicts the brothers hunting on skis in this terrain. The Anglo-Saxon poem Doer’s Lament refers to Völund’s grief in exile as “winter-cold”. Hrafnagaldur Óđins 7 states that when Idunn dwelt in “dales”, she was wrapped in wolf-skin, no doubt to keep warm. Then, she was “at Nörvi’s daughter’s”. Nörvi’s daughter, according the Younger Edda is Night. In a similar vein, when Nidhad and his men arrive, moonlight glistens on their shields. By all accounts, the Wolfdales are cold and dark, unlike Urd’s domain. To live in that land, Idunn must doff her swan-guise, and don wolf-skin. Swan-maidens have no place there. The poem Hrafnagaldur Óđins cleverly juxtaposes these two images: the warm well of Urd in the south, and the cold isolation of the Wolfdales in the north. Urd herself is designated as “the bearer of Gjöll’s Sunna” Gjallar Sunnu gátt, a kenning simply meaning, woman. Gjöll’s Sunna refers to the “the river’s fire”, i.e. gold. A gold-bearer is a woman. The term for fire here is an alternate name for the Sun, indicating warmth and light. A similar idea is contained in verse 2 where Urd is appointed to guard Ođrerir (Mimir’s well), once the malignant winds start to blow from the north. Her presence may be intended to keep it from freezing over. This juxtaposition explains the swan-maidens yearning. Idunn and her sisters long to return to their native home in the south, far from the wintercold Wolfdales. It seems the poet who composed Völundarkviđa set out to tell an episode from the lives of the Sons of Ivaldi, about the time when they were the enemies of the gods, and dwelt with their sisters in the Wolfdales, beyond the scepter of the gods’. Without this context, the poem has lost its significance for us, and we incorrectly ascribe it a place among the heroic poems. But when we recognize Völund and his brothers as the famous Sons of Ivaldi, we understand why the scribe of the Codex Regius placed this poem squarely among the mythological poems of the Elder Edda. It has its proper place there. This is not an isolated heroic tale, as current wisdom holds, but a central timber of a greater story arc, which explains the consequences of the judgment on the artists, wrought by the cunning Loki. We need only assemble the scattered pieces to see the plot more clearly. Not surprisingly, these episodes, once thought independent, dovetail one another forming links in a logical chain of events. Thus, without the weight of argument and evidence to cloud our perception, I will present a probable timeline of mythic events that underlie the poetic fragments spoken of here: o .. Ivaldi is a svart-alf (dark elf). He married Greip the jotun (giant). Their children, the Sons of Ivaldi, are friends and allies of the gods, giving them magical treasures freely. o .. Loki instigates a contest of the artists, in which the works of the dark elves, Ivaldi’s Sons, and of the dwarves, Brokk and Sindri, are compared with one another. o .. At the behest of Loki, the gods compare the works made by the Sons of Ivaldi to the works of Sindri. The gods prefer Sindri's masterpiece, the hammer Mjöllnir (not because it is beautiful, indeed it’s handle is deformed, but because it is such a powerful weapon), and by default the works of the Sons of Ivaldi are deemed inferior. o .. Fearing the reaction of Ivaldi’s sons, Odin, Hoenir, and Loki travel to the home of these elves, perhaps to appease them. o .. Thjazi, one of Ivaldi’s sons and the group’s primary artist, thwarts the gods’ best effort at peace and strong-arms Loki into luring Idunn, his half-sister way from Asgard with her treasure, the apples of rejuvenation that keep the gods young. She is gone for some time. o .. The Sons of Ivaldi go into exile in the furthest reaches of Niflheim, in the far north of the underworld where the gods have no sway. Idunn and her sisters, the swan-maidens, join them and their cause. o .. While in the Wolfdales, Thjazi-Völund creates a sword, to which he applies all his skill and cunning. The weapon is designed to destroy Asgard and its inhabitants. (It is the same sword Surt eventually uses to set the world aflame.) In addition to this, he and his brothers chant magic songs, which send out devastating storms toward Midgard. Odin is powerless to stop them. o .. In time, the swan-maidens leave and Thjazi-Völund is captured by a friend of the gods. Völund’s sword, most dangerous to the gods, is taken from him and kept by Mimir (by “the satyr Mimingus” in Saxo’s History and under “Mimir’s Tree” in Fjölsvinnsmál. Clues which point to Nidhad’s identity with Mimir himself). o .. Idunn and her sisters most likely return to Thjazi’s mountain-home, Thyrmheim, where Idunn bears Thjazi’s daughter Skadi. o .. Thjazi-Völund escapes Nidhad-Mimir’s underworld prison, and returns to Thyrmheim to be with Idunn and Skadi. o .. After many years, the gods grow old and force Loki to regain Idunn and her apples. Under threat of injury, Loki steals into Thjazi’s abode and kidnaps Idunn. He entices Thjazi to follow. o .. Thjazi recklessly pursues Loki and is burnt and killed on Asgard’s walls. o .. To honor their former friend, the gods turn Thjazi’s eyes into stars and intermarry with the elf clan: Thor weds Sif, Bragi weds Idunn, and Skadi marries Njord. o .. The mythic epic continues with the saga surrounding the fate of Völund’s sword. As shown above, the source documents demonstrate a remarkable consistency of ideas throughout. They are more homogeneous than is popularly recognized. Without doubt, the old skalds had a clear vision of the characters that they were portraying. It is the ornament of their art, the use of complex kennings and wordplay that make it difficult for us, and the scholars who examine these poems to understand. The poet need not have stated things clearly, nor was he expected to; he spoke of tales his audience knew well. There is every reason to believe that these myths existed in oral narrative forms, independent from any poetic treatments. The popularity of the Völund myth is well attested to in ancient times. It is we who have forgotten the details. As you can see, no one piece of evidence is the lynchpin that holds the entire argument together. Rather we have a confluence of ideas that all point in the same direction. We must remember that we are dealing with fragmentary sources, many of which make poetic allusions to mythic situations that are obscure to us, but undoubtedly were well known to the heathen audience for whom they were intended. It is my hope that the results of this investigation suggest that there is no longer any reason for us to assume that the mythology of the late Germanic religion was as correspondingly incomplete and primitive as the source material left for us to examine. William P. Reaves June 2002
Sertimon 03-07-04, 03:03 PM	Opps! Had forgotten about this thread! :embarrass Well ... a troll that loves to hang around churches would probably not have that particular weakness in this case. :P Take note that trolls only have one of the listed weaknesses, not all of them. I could perhaps tuned down the Vulnerable to Church Bells by allowing the troll a Fortitude save or die (similar to flesh to stone spell). Or you could take the turning route that you suggested, but since we used the d20 Modern ruleset, Turning was out. By the way, are you going to use standard D&D or d20 Modern rules? Or doesn't it matter? Since we did not use standard D&D rules, we had no clerics, sorcerers, or wizards. Magic could only be accessed by fulfilling the requirements for an advanced class. In our particular setting we had three different forms of magic: Galdr, Rune, and Seid. Galdr is a form of verbal rune magic, a word from Old Norse which originally meant 'incantation'. It was similar to the effects of bardic music abilities. Rune magic was similar to galdr, but in written form. It was roughly modeled akin to Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed (but done before that book was released). And then we have the Seid, which could be used for either good or ill. Those that mastered seid could change the weather, put out flames, create storms, make people angry, speak with the dead, and lots of things that I cannot remember right now. Seid function much like standard D&D arcane magic. In our setting, Seid was also known as 'trolldom' which means magic in Swedish, thus connected with trolls. Seid was primary performed by women, because it was seen as "unmanly" for men to practice it. There was also something called the "fimbul-songs", but we never managed to fit it into the setting (whether it was due to lack of time or effort, I don't know). They might be connected to the knowledge of the runes, which Odin learnt by drinking from Mimer’s Well. Perhaps you know this better than me? I'd love to see how your interpretation of the troll turns out. I have to admit that there tons of different stories about trolls which ultimately led to conflicts between various source material. I agree that making statistics based on these sources are hard because of this. So it’s more of a matter of opinion rather than right or wrong. Since we ran on a tight schedule for the school project, I feel that now when I look back at the monster chapter it feels kinda rushed.
Juggernaut 03-11-04, 01:46 PM	Wow. I've been doing research on a Viking campaign setting recentally, however after reading this tread, I've found out how little I trully know. Thank you all and encourage you all to please continue to give input to Norse World Foundation.
GewdThyme the Foolhardy 03-12-04, 01:47 AM	I am doing some world-building right now and I plan on borrowing some things from Norse mythology. I haven't done much in the way of races, I am mostly working on a dieties right now. Every time I start thinking about dwarfs from norse mythology I always have the same two questions. These aren't important questions for the world I want to build or anything, just somethings I am curious about. 1. In Norse mythology aren't dwarfs the same thing as trolls, kobolds, brownies, goblins, plucks, gnomes, or Huldra folk depending on country ect? 2. Are black elves, Slvar-alfar, and dwarfs all one identical type of creature?. They all seem to be a diffrent titles for the same beings. The way they are reffered to gets confusing. They all seem to have the same orgin ( maggots from Ymir's flesh) and are certainly not fairies or 'light' elves as they all seem to dwell in Slvar-alfa-hiem.
Asta Kask 03-12-04, 05:12 AM	Originally posted by GewdThyme the Foolhardy 1. In Norse mythology aren't dwarfs the same thing as trolls, kobolds, brownies, goblins, plucks, gnomes, or Huldra folk depending on country ect? 2. Are black elves, Slvar-alfar, and dwarfs all one identical type of creature?. They all seem to be a diffrent titles for the same beings. The way they are reffered to gets confusing. They all seem to have the same orgin ( maggots from Ymir's flesh) and are certainly not fairies or 'light' elves as they all seem to dwell in Slvar-alfa-hiem. Yes. It's important to remember that there is no "scientific classification" system for these creatures. The same name can refer to wildly different beings, and the same being can be called by wildly different names. I disagree with Odin being the source of Law and Chaos. I believe that he sits on his throne and sings songs to combat chaos, including the Norns who are a lot darker than people seem to believe. Do not include Fenrir in the beastiary. He is a mythological monster that is let loose at Ragnarok, and is quite impervious to weapons. He eats Odin, for criminy's sake! Vidar only manages to kill him by putting his oversized shoe in his mouth and put his (Vidar's) sword down his (Fenrir's) throat. There is also the Hound of Hel, Garm (I think), who is similar to Cerberos of Greco-Roman Myth (only one head though). The Finnish mythology has very little in common with the norse mythology, but it is true that Tolkien drew on them both for inspiration. The primary source for finnish mythology is the epic "Kalevala", which was compiled from various sources in the 19th century. As for wizardry in an Old Norse campaign, I'd say that the Bard class is best suited for this. Norse "wizards" sang their magic songs (galdr) to affect their enemies. Odin lists 18 magic songs (2x9) which he learned when he sacrificed himself to the forces of the underworld.
Haldrik 03-15-04, 03:35 AM	Those Dwarves! 1. In Norse mythology aren't dwarfs the same thing as trolls, kobolds, brownies, goblins, plucks, gnomes, or Huldra folk depending on country ect? In the older Norse materials, there seems to be clear distinctions between Elf (Alf), Giant (Jotun), and Dwarf (Dverg). However by the later materials, perhaps under the influence of Continental European Christianity, there is a kind of "dwarvification" of absolutely everything that exists. The elves become the littlefolk who are also called "dwarves", the giants become short trolls who are also called "dwarves". Basically, any story that says the race switches its children with human children really comes from something that dwarves do. The only thing that is truly confusing is the connection between "black elves" (svart alf) and "dwarves" (dverg). In one place, Thor clearly tells Loki to visit the "black elves" and Loki then visits the "dwarves". However, these particular black elves are likely called "dwarves" as a nickname. Their father Ivaldi was indeed a "black elf," but their mother Greip was a giant. These mixrace black elf/giants were taller than humans but much shorter than the full giants from the mother's side who they lived among. Compared to the other giants, these "black elves" look like "dwarves." Moreover, they live underground (in the arctic north) and forge magic items (better than dwarves do, actually), and it was hard for the nickname "dwarf" not to stick! For me the deciding factor is the description of skin color. Black elves are specifically said to have skin color that is charcoal gray, the color of "soot". Whereas dwarves are said to have deathly "pale" white skin. Add to this, dwarves and only dwarves are said to have feet like the talons of a "crow's feet"! (Any "dwarf" that does not have bird feet is by definition a half dwarf.) For me this means, the stories have two separate races in mind. Also, there is no reason to suggest that Norse "elves" are short in any way. Gamewise, this means Elves (Light and Dark), Giants, and Dwarves are all distinct races that entered a massive interbreeding campaign by the time of the Christian era.
Haldrik 03-15-04, 03:46 AM	Sertimon: I could perhaps tune down the Vulnerable to Church Bells by allowing the troll a Fortitude save or die (similar to flesh to stone spell). Or you could take the turning route that you suggested, but since we used the d20 Modern ruleset, Turning was out. Maybe simplest is best, the save verse Fortitude sounds good. Still it should only be a lawful religious symbol that can harm trolls, and it should only be one sanctified by a priestly person of at least higher level than the troll's hitdice. The lawful turning idea seems to meet these concerns. So it's simple versus fun. A win/win choice. By the way, are you going to use standard D&D or d20 Modern rules? Or doesn't it matter? DnD. I'm still adjusting to 3.5 rules, but I like what I see. I haven't looked at d20 yet, but my impression is I'll like it. I like magic in a modern setting. So it sounds cool.
Haldrik 03-15-04, 03:58 AM	Asta Kask: I disagree with Odin being the source of Law and Chaos. I believe that he sits on his throne and sings songs to combat chaos, including the Norns who are a lot darker than people seem to believe. But don't forget how very dark Odin can be. Even demanding violent death and human sacrifice. Odin preserves many elements of other the ancient sky dome gods, for example the Canaanite sky dome god called "El". El is also the Allfather of the gods, having precisely 70 divine children. His two most prominant children are Yam the sea god of Chaos versus Hadad/Baal the storm and war god of Order. Allfathers are the source of all the gods, both chaotic and lawful. Loki the "blood brother" is chaotic like Yam. Thor is lawful like the storm god Hadad. By the way, today we think war is chaos (and rightly so!), but in the ancient worlds war meant power and control.
Asta Kask 03-15-04, 08:10 AM	Originally posted by Haldrik Asta Kask: But don't forget how very dark Odin can be. Even demanding violent death and human sacrifice. Odin preserves many elements of other the ancient sky dome gods, for example the Canaanite sky dome god called "El". El is also the Allfather of the gods, having precisely 70 divine children. His two most prominant children are Yam the sea god of Chaos versus Hadad/Baal the storm and war god of Order. Allfathers are the source of all the gods, both chaotic and lawful. Loki the "blood brother" is chaotic like Yam. Thor is lawful like the storm god Hadad. By the way, today we think war is chaos (and rightly so!), but in the ancient worlds war meant power and control. Darkness, violent death and human sacrifice seems to me to point more towards evil than chaos (in D&D terms), but in the olden days they were often synonymous. You may be right, but I'm not convinced. Also, remember that Odin is a relatively new god. The ancient germanic sky god was Tiwas (Tyr) who is associated with the sun and law. Odin, on the other hand, is not strongly associated with the sky. Also, Odin is the one who orders the classes of society be made (Heimdall only carries it out). Anyway, there seems to be good arguments on both sides. Odin as Chaotic (in Deities and Demigods), on the other hand, seems to be right out. Edit: The sea is often associated with chaos, but Loki has very little to do with the sea. He is a fire god (loge=flame) and a trickster, but his only connection with the sea is that one of his children end up there. Njord and Aegir seems to be more closely connected with the sea, Njord being benevolent and Aegir (mostly) malevolent.
Haldrik 03-19-04, 08:04 PM	The sea is often associated with chaos, but Loki has very little to do with the sea. He is a fire god. Yes, of course. I did not mean to suggest that Loki was a sea god. Loki is clearly fire, every kind of fire from home hearth to forest fire. Loki is a (fiery) chaos god. I just meant to compare him with a chaos god from an other culture. Thor = Order. Odin = All. Loki = Chaos. (Perhaps these can translate into DnD's alignments: Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic?) Nevertheless, the Canaanite serpentine sea-chaos god Yam parallels the Norse serpentine sea-chaos god, the Midgard Serpent Jormungandr. It is no coincidence that this sea god is considered Loki's offspring. Even the sea-chaos is an aspect of Loki the chaos god. Norse Thor = Canaanite Hadad = Storm-War = Order. Norse Odin = Canaanite El = Sky Dome-Allfather = All. Norse Loki/Jormungandr = Canaanite Yam = Sea = Chaos. Odin, on the other hand, is not strongly associated with the sky. Odin is very much a sky dome god. His "good eye" is the sun. His "hidden eye" is the moon. ;) His dark cloak studded with stars is the starry night sky dome. His gray cloak is the overcast sky. He sits on his high seat, overlooking the entire earth, seeing everything omnisciently from the perspective of the sky dome. His magic spear is lightning bolts. In his self human sacrifice, he hangs from the world tree, and the upper branches of the world tree are the sky dome. The "death" itself is the celestial winter season. His magic gold ring is the astronomical cycle of seasons. (Scandinavia has 9 months of "winter" plus 3 months of "summer". So according to Norse symbolism, each year gives birth to summer after a pregnancy of 9 months. That's why 9 is a magical number.) And the list of Odin's sky attributes continues. Odin is very much a sky dome god (different from a storm god). Despite that this god came to be called "Odin" fairly recently (7th century CE?), he appropriates the aspects of a sky god that precedes him by millenia. Admittedly, Odin is more complex than other sky gods from other religions. For example, Odin also has many aspects of a death god. Such as Valhalla (literally, "the Hall of the Killed"). His eight legged horse is thought to portray a coffin being carried by four pall bearers to the burial site. His wolves and ravens are the scavengers that feast on the dead who have fallen in battle and are still lying unburied on the field. His Valkyries (literally, "the Choosers of the Killed") decide who dies and who doesn't. And of course, his self human sacrifice is an aspect of death. To add more complexity, I consider Odin to be - more than anything else - a "trance god", a god of mystical inspiration of any kind, from the possession of the Berserker's rage to the rapture of the Skald's poetry. The word "od" in "odin" literally means "inspiration", and "odin" means "inspirer". Odin's insight into Ginnunga Gap (the fundamental nothingness of reality) epitomizes mystical experience. Odin is a god that combines several aspects from several areas of life. Still, in all of these: Odin is not just Order, Odin is not just Chaos. Odin is the Allfather of All. Odin as Chaotic (in Deities and Demigods), on the other hand, seems to be right out. Agreed. His struggle to avoid Ragnar Rok ("the Judgment of the Gods") is a clear aspect of Order, so he cannot simply be Chaotic.
lekpic 07-26-04, 04:02 PM	How do I become a member and play my half-ogre cleric of Thor better?
Haldrik 11-27-04, 02:00 PM	CHECK IT OUT! The word "dweomer" actually refers to the magic of the dvergar (Norse dwarves). DWEOMER The word dweomer comes from the Old Norse word "dverg-mal" meaning "dwarf-speech" and also meaning "echo" because the dwarves live inside the rocks and are said to return the speech. Because Norse dwarves are powerful mages, "dwarf speech" also means magical spells, and therefore "magic". 1. "dwarf speech" -> "echo" 2. "dwarf speech" -> "magic" Who knew?! dweomer. An obscure word meaning magic. dwimmer. phantom, illusion. dwimmerlaik, dwimmerlock. illusionist. [Old English *dwoemer (magic), -loga (liar). Compare warlock from Old English waer (oath), -loga (liar).] dwimmerly. illusiorily, deceptively. The Word Lover's Dictionary; Citadel Press, Josefa Heifetz, 1997; ISBN 0-8065-1720-4. dwergma. echo. [Old Norse dverg-mal (dwarf-language), Old English dwerg-ma.] dwarf. [Old Norse dverg, Old English dwerg, dweorg, dweorgh, dweorh, Middle English dwerf, Modern English dwarf.] The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, Volume 1 (A-O); 18th Printing, 1979; Library of Congress catalog number 76-188038 dweomercraeft. Obs. magic art. [Old English *dwimer, *dweomer, in zedwimer, zedwomer (illusion, sorcery), zedwinere (sorcerer) + craeft, see CRAFT.] c.1205 LAY. 30634: "And Pelux hit wiste anan purh his dweomer-craeften." dweomerlayk, demerlayk. Obs. necromancer. Tolkein uses the word dwimmerlaik as a contemptuous title for the lord of the Nazgul. So the word dweomer (magic) relates to the word dwergma (echo). Both of them come from the Old Norse word dverg-mal (dwarf-speech). Dwarves are powerful mages so "dwarf-speech" can refer to magical spells. And dwarves live inside the rocks and speak back in echos. DROW It seems the Scottish word drow comes from the Old Norse word dverg meaning dwarf, rather than from a similar Scottish word trow coming from the old Norse word troll meaning mage, that is, a magical creature. Thus both words, drow and dweomer, have the exact same etymology!!! The magic of the dwarves. Who knew?! drow, dwerrow, dwerg. Scottish dwarf. [Old Norse dverg, Old English dwerg, dweorg, dweorgh, dweorh.] trow, trowe. Scottish troll. [Old Norse troll.] www.WordIQ.com/definition/Trowe trowe. A trowe is a mythical creature of the Orkney Islands, which is based on the Scandinavian troll. Trowes are said to be small, naughty, little creatures who live in mounds and nooks. Sea Trowes live under the water and are very lazy. They are said to be nocturnal, and even when they come out at night, they are invisible to many. The words drow and trow do NOT come from the same etymology. The word drow meaning dwarf is used in the Scottish Shetland Isle. I think it relates to the word dwerrow, which is a cognate of the Old Norse "dverg". The word trow meaning troll, on the other hand, is used in the Scottish Orkney Isle. It derives directly from the Old Norse "troll".
Haldrik 11-27-04, 02:50 PM	Lekpic: How do I become a member and play my half-ogre cleric of Thor better? Players on Norse adventures can be members by placing a link to the Norse World Foundation in their sig. Believe it or not, your half-ogre Cleric of Thor can better serve Thor by playing it a bit more like a ... Paladin. Thor is the god of oaths and the warrior defender of humans. If you fight to protect the weak and fulfill your promises very carefully, you will please Thor. However, Thor is cunning and doesn't hesitate to use deception to achieve Lawful goals. :D (In such circumstances, Thor will do everything possible to avoid making an oath, but if somehow forced he will honor it.) Not to mention, Thor goes berserk ... often. Generally, Thor is the enemy of giantkind, but there are many, many exceptions. Even his own wife Sif is half-giant half-black-elf, IIRC. One giant can be so different from another giant. Your half-ogre Cleric of Thor is absolutely acceptable!
lekpic 11-29-04, 02:57 PM	I just found out that my half-ogre may not ever play again. The DM said that he might not DM again. I don't want to retire the great Zander, but I don't know what else to do. *sigh*
Araciss 12-03-04, 07:22 AM	The Vanir Gods From Heimskringla (free translation): Odin went to battle the vanir, but they defended themselves well. Both armies led attacks into the other armies realm and caused havoc, but when they got bored with it, they held a meeting and established peace between the two folks. Hostages were traded; the Vanir sent their best men; Njord the Rich and his son Frřy. The Ćsir sendt the god Hřne, and they assured the Vanir that he could be a good lord; he was a tall and beautiful man. With him, they sent Mimir, they wisest of all creatures. When Hřne came to Vanheim, he was elected as lord over them, but it was Mimir that gave him all the good advices. And if Hřne was asked about something when Mimir wasn’t with him, he said “Ask someone else”. The Vćnir understood that they had been tricked; they had sent their best men, while the ćsir hadn’t. They beheaded Mimir and sendt him to the ćsir. Odin took the head and embalmed it with herbs against decaying. He used galder on it, and filled it with trolldom, so that the head could speak with him and tell him secrets. Odin made Njord and Frřy high priest, and they were gods among the ćsir. Njords daughter Frřya became priestess. She learnt the ćsir seid, the magical art of the Vanir. When Njord still lived with the Vanir, he was married with his sister – that was their custom, and their children were Frřy and Frřya. But among the ćsir, no one were allowed to live like that. The Origin of the Vanir. Even though the myths about the wars between the two ćtts of gods and their peace treathy has not been preserved, the Vani gods will always remain as a strange group within the Norse pantheon. Njord, Frřy and Frřya is all connected with each other through abilities and attributes that they do not share with the other gods. There are many theories about the origin of the Vani gods and their membership in the Norse pantheon. Some believe that the stories of war and peace treaties is a picture of how two religions melting together, and there has been theorised that the Vani worshippers a were agricultural folk that was conquered and influenced by a warlike folk whom worship the ćsir. Another theori is that they coexisted in a parted society were the upper class worshipped the ćsir and the lower class with farmers and serfs worshipped the peaceful vanir gods, who are gods of abundance. But it is also possible that the myths about the wars between Vanheim and Ĺsgard gods is a tale about ancient Germanic or Indo-European heritage, so old that the original conflict has disappeared today. Jotuns The homeworld of the jotuns lay far from the realms were gods and humans used to travel. Their home is called Jotunheimen or Utgard, the Home of the Jotuns. But the jotuns did also live in Midgard, within the nature, akin to nature spirits. Some lived in mountains and wastelands, some in rainforests or in the ocean, others lived at great luxurious farms in lush agricultural areas. Their ćtt must be as ancient as the world since their race has split so many times, and since they behave in a great variety of manner. Rimtussene is of jotun-ćtt, og they are related to cold. This is shown in their names: Hrímnir, Hrímgrímnir, Jokull: Istapp, Drifa: Snefokk. Havtussene is not spoken much of. Ćgir is the name of the jotun that dwell within the deep, and he is also called Hlér og Gymir. His daughters are the waves, and his wife Ran gather drowned sailors in her net. Muspelfolket, or Muspelsřnnene is the name of the jotuns that dwell in the fiery land of Muspelheim, which is located beneath the earth or far to the south. Their lord is Surt. The difference between ćser and jotuns may not be as clear as you should expect. Though many stories tell about the evil jotuns that kill and challenge the authority of the ćsir, there are also old stories that speak of the jotuns as an ancient and distant ćtt of gods. Relationships between the ćsir and the jotuns may give hints of this ancient kinship. There are tales of many lovers that unite the two ćtts, tales of Frřy and Gerd, Odin and Gunlřd, were Gerd and Gunlřd were jotuns. Tjatse’s daughter Skade become one of a ćsynje through her marriage with Njord. This solidarity underlines even more that the jotuns are viewed as ancestors of the ćsir. Bestla, Odins mother, was daughter of the jotun Břltorn. Tyr was also the son of a jotun. The relationship between jotuns and ćsir aren’t always war and feuds. Mimir, was a jotun, and the wisest of all beings, so wise that the gods acknowledged him as one of their own. Ćgir had gilde with the gods, and the jotun-son Loke is Odins ‘brother’. Even Volva, the oracle of the world, is mentioned as being a jotun. The jotuns were the firstborn. The ćsir created the world, but made it by using the corpse of the ancient jotun Ymer. He is also called Fornjótr and Aurgelmir. There are also a group of creatures of the jotun-ćtt that are both dangerous and evil: Fenrisulven, Jormundagand. Og Hel. The dragon Nidhogg that suck blood from the realm of Hel, and Hrćsvelg who create the wind with his great wings, is also included in this group. The few examples above show you how varied and different the jotuns was. Maybe humans usually thought of the jotuns as grim and unintelligent trolls. But you have to remember that their daughters can be so beautiful that even god were tempted by them. People also believed that creatures whom had existed since the ancient times had to be extremely wise and intelligent. Therefore is Mimir either equal in wisdom or maybe more wise than the gods. And even Odin could have problems with figuring a question that could not be answered by the jotun Vaftrudner. The jotuns are so complex and varied because of our shifting view on them, and because of influence from other mythologies and stories from other cultures. But throughout the norrřn mytholgy, we find the battle between gods and jotuns, between creation and destruction, between maintenance of order and the struggling for change. There is a fine balance between the struggling forces, and this might be the Norwegian version of ying and yang, so to say. The Lower Mythology. The lower mythology is about private gods and other mythological creatures. Most of them have a non-established character, so they did almost never interfere with the higher mythology. No matter what, they have played a great role in the life of a simple commoner. Tales about elvepiker (rivergirls, elfgirls), troll, dwarves, werewolves, seamen etc. is still a part of our culture. A common name for this great group of creatures that was so different in appearance and manner, that helped and hurt and interfered with the life of every mortal man, is vetter. This word was originally a word that included the creatures from higher mytology, but in later years, vetter has become synonymous with the creatures of lower mythology. Dverger and svartalver. These two groups is impossible to seperate from each other. Both lived underground, in great rocks or hills. They were ugly and small. The sortalfr were darker the night. The dwarves were the best smiths, and that was also their most important skill. Dwarves created the best weapons and the most valued objects in Norse mythology. Landvettene (Landwights) These creatures was sentral in the lower mythology. It seems as they was very important in earlier ages – especially in Iceland. It was disallowed to sail towards the shores of Iceland with dragonships, and if you did, you had to remove the dragon head first. It was not allowed to sail with dragons carved on the boats because they could scare landvettene. . And they were absolutly important, since they were the guardians of the land. If you really wanted to bring unluck to someone, you could try to make landvettene unfriendly towards him. Alveblot and vetteoffer The faith in lesser and mythless deities are easily mixed and influenced by other sources. It is practically impossible to manage to make clear difference between vetter, alver, diser and other similar powers. Sometimes their worshipping was officially, with days devoted to them, as it is written in Sigvat Skald’s journey between Norge og Värmland. Sigvat and his companions were not allowed to enter in any house they travelled past, since those who lived there practiced alveblot that night. I believe this incident has to be a private ceremony or something like that, since there is no other texts were there is written about certain days in the year were folk practiced alveblot or vetteoffer. It seems like people sacrifice (offer) to alver and vetter when they need it. In “Kormaks Soga”, we are told that when Torvard didn’t become well from the wounds Kormak had given him, he sacrificed meat and blood from a bull to the elves, and soon he was healed. Fylgja and hamskifte Some divine forces was strongly connected to a person or a family. Maybe the members of this family weren’t aware of it themselves, but some could see their fylgja (follower). They were often in the shape of animals, and they followed or represented this person. This animal was a mirror-image of his mind and soul, and existed in a parallel dimension. The fylgja is also the very person himself, in a way, and could therefore not just be viewed as a mirror-image or dual-personality. This is shown in the islandic Rolf Krakes Soga, were Rolf fights with his men in a place called Leire. A great bear attacked Rolf’s enemies, and while the battle went well, they longed for Rolf’s best warrior, Bodvar Bjarke. He was sleeping in the hall while his friends were fighting, and he was impossible to wake up. When he finally did, he went to fight, but then the bear was gone. The bear was Bjarkes fylgja, and while it fought, Bjarke slept, as he was emptied for energy. Dřdningen (The Ghoul) Dřdningen or draugen, is terrifying and dangerous. He attacks grave-robbers that try to steal the belongings of the dead. Saxo Grammaticus tell us that Asmund burried himself within the barrow-mound of his dead brother, Asvid. When he finally came free, one of his ears was missing, and he bled. It was Asvid that had awakened during the nights. Asmund didn’t manage to calm Asvid before he had beaten him in the head and put a stake through his body. The method of putting a stake through the body of a dřdning was a usual way of putting ghosts to rest. That way he was nailed to his resting place. Mvh Araciss Linte
Haldrik 06-15-05, 05:50 PM	Awesome input, Araciss! Lekpic, I see Zander retired, and you're now DM. Congratulations! I hope you get to keep Zander busy with your players. :)
tobyk316 06-15-05, 06:01 PM	Hi Heldrik, This is from Lekpic: "Well, Zander may be retired but he lives on in the hearts of all who gamed with him. One day I will finish my book with Beasley and he rampaging through dungeons together. Eventually they are going to retire with a Temple to Thor above ground, and Beasley's Thieves Guild below ground. Beasley's player and I switch off DMing. We just got done with an adventure with Jenny and RC (The female counterparts to Zander and Beasley) where we were able to bulk up their personalities a bit."
Haldrik 06-15-05, 06:01 PM	Highly Recommended: Buy the new Expanded Psionic Handbook now! Norse Mythology = Psionics Viking magic doesn't even vaguely resemble the magic in the Players Handbook. Viking magic is nothing except the power of an individual's "mindforce" (Old Norse hugr ). Second-sight, astral projection, charm, false sensory input, telekinesis, metamorphosis, dreamwalking (not to mention limited healing and flight) ... Psionics simply *IS* ancient Norse magic. Norse mythology is an important part of the traditional fantasy setting. Even more so, it's specifically part of core D&D that mentions the Norse gods by name and includes quasi-Norse classes like the Barbarian, Berserker, and Skald. I enjoy having a Viking-flavored region in my world, and its cultural background of psionics. *Central* to Norse flavor are: giants (jotnar), dwarves (dvergar), elves (alfar), and fey (vaettir), plus the endless inbreeding among them (and humans). These mystic beings *personify* Norse magic ... which is psionic! A Viking fantasy setting necessitates psionic giants, psionic dwarves, psionic elves, and psionic fey! Thanks to the new Expanded Psionic Handbook, core D&D now has explicitly psionic dwarves (gray dwarves) and explicitly psionic giants (half-giants). These are core Norse creatures, and it's easy for a DM to include them and pure Psions among them to flesh out a Viking-style region. Likewise, these same DMs may wish to add psionic elves and psionic fey to further enrich their world. Core D&D *REQUIRES* psionics to better express the traditional fantasy setting. Especially so that regional differences can come into play. I personally appreciate that the Expanded Psionic Handbook does this!
Haldrik 06-15-05, 06:02 PM	By the way, the Viking word for a Psion would be a trollmadr. It literally means a "human mage." Originally, the Old Norse word troll means "mage." The word "mage" typically refers to a nonhuman psionic giant, who at times unleashed the raging power of their "mindforce" (hugr). The psionic powers of giants shape the features of the Viking landscape. Berserkers of legend are human warriors who learned the psionic power of rage as well as other powers such as metamorphosis and astral projection. Ultimately, this information comes from psionic giants. According to the Norse worldview, all reality is a fleeting mental event within Ginnungagap, literally the "chasm of delusion." (It's closely related to the Hindu and Buddhist concept of Samsara.) The Vikings believe that reality itself = psionics. Several Norse myths describe how gods and giants use their psionic mindforce on eachother to produce the phenoma of the cosmos around them. What the Expanded Psionic Handbook calls "the land of dreams" in the description of the psionic power Dream Travel, the Vikings can only call Ginnungagap.
Haldrik 06-15-05, 06:10 PM	To Lekpic, Eventually they are going to retire with a Temple to Thor above ground, and Beasley's Thieves Guild below ground. Cool. It sounds like fun!
Myrdinn 06-24-05, 02:03 PM	Hi guys. I have some questions for my Celtic/Norse campaign. The campaign world is a group of islands (Some big some small) The northern ones are based on Scandinavia and Iceland and the southern ones are based on Ireland, Scotland and Wales and Cornwall. So: 1) Dietys. I'm using a pantheon mixed from Gaelige(Celtic Irish) and Norse. So what would (mythologicly, not in D20) the favored weopen be for: Loki, Frey, Freya and Njord? 2) Magic. I want there to be a lot of magic/psionics (I agree with the norse magic=Psionics idea) in the campaign so how would I portray this without losing the Norse feel to it?(I've already sorted out the celtic side.) By the way, the further you go travel north, the more psionics there is as opposed to magic. 3) Classes. I've renamed the classes and given some new abilities. Druid=Shamen. Sorcerer=Druid. Psion=Adept Wilder=Sorcerer Bard=Bard (southland)/Skald(Northland). Barbarian=Beserker. Adept=Witch. So my question is: Do I need the Wizard class? And, if so, what should i call them? The word Wizard comes from the Old/middle english word Wis (which means wise) so as far as i know, there is no referance to it in the mythologies i'm using. 4) Dragons. I love dragons and i want them as a player race. So, how were they regarded in Norse mythology? Thanks.
Haldrik 06-26-05, 08:11 AM	Myrdinn: Hi guys. I have some questions for my Celtic/Norse campaign. The campaign world is a group of islands (Some big some small). The northern ones are based on Scandinavia and Iceland and the southern ones are based on Ireland, Scotland and Wales and Cornwall. Sounds cool. :cool: 1) Dietys. I'm using a pantheon mixed from Gaelige(Celtic Irish) and Norse. So what would (mythologicly, not in D20) the favored weopen be for: Loki, Frey, Freya and Njord? Loki: fought without weapons by Shapechanging. Once he picked up a rock off the ground and threw it to kill a mage who shapechanged into an otter. Freyr: definitely his sword. (However in Ragnarok he lost his sword and fought with deer antlers. :rolleyes: ) Freyja: she is a powerful Psion. She will attack Telepathically. She is also one of the most powerful Seers that exists. She can see into the future, screw up other people's destinies :schemes: , and divine prettymuch anything. By the way, Freyja (a.k.a. Gullveig) is unkillable, and rises from death phoenixlike. Njordr: he is believed to have fought in the Wars between Vanir and Aesir. Specifically he is thought to have defeated Loki, but I don't recall what weapon he used. Assumably a typical Viking weapon: Axe, Spear, Sword. Possibly used a bow for range attacks at the start of the fight. 2) Magic. I want there to be a lot of magic/psionics (I agree with the norse magic=Psionics idea) in the campaign so how would I portray this without losing the Norse feel to it?(I've already sorted out the celtic side.) By the way, the further you go travel north, the more psionics there is as opposed to magic. Norse magic is 100% psionics, relying in the power of the "mindforce" (Old Norse Hugr ). So going north means more Psionics and less Divine or Arcane. And don't forget about the Saami (also called Lapplanders and also improperly called Finns). They vaguely resemble Inuit (Eskimos) who live across the northernmost parts of Scandinavia. They are Shamans who likewise use pure psionic magic. 3) Classes. I've renamed the classes and given some new abilities. Druid=Shamen. Sorcerer=Druid. Psion=Adept Wilder=Sorcerer Bard=Bard (southland)/Skald(Northland). Barbarian=Beserker. Adept=Witch. I'm quoting stuff I wrote else where in the posts below, to go into detail about the Norse Magic = Psionics. It will also cover the Norse names for Psionic classes. So my question is: Do I need the Wizard class? And, if so, what should i call them? The word Wizard comes from the Old/middle english word Wis (which means wise) so as far as i know, there is no referance to it in the mythologies i'm using. No. Not really. Stick with Psionics as much as possible in the Norse setting. They should be able to do anything Wizards do. If you want to have specifically Arcane magic for some reason, it would be a Renaissance scholar with books about "protoscience" from the Mediterranean lands, particularly Italy, Spain, and Turkey. At this time, the Irish were famous around the known world for their scholars. These scholars would have access to Wizard materials. You can also treat many of these scholars are Bards specializing in Oratory as their form of "music." 4) Dragons. I love dragons and i want them as a player race. So, how were they regarded in Norse mythology? Norse dragons are titanic snakes. They don't have wings or legs (usually). They have two horns. Their breath weapon is particularly deadly (= double damage). The whole gold/magic hoarding thing works for Norse mythology too. Celtic dragons have two wings and two hindlegs (like the Wyvryn). European dragons with four legs and wings exist in the Norse lands but "immigrated" from southern lands and are rare. Note, Dvergar, Trollir, and Jotnar have mages who often Metamorphose into Dragons. You may want to allow players to have an "alternate form" ability that allows them to "Wild Shape" frequently into a specific dragon form.
Haldrik 06-26-05, 08:28 AM	Viking Names for Psionics Psionics Trolldomr (Troll-dóm-r ) or "mage-realm" VIKING NAMES FOR PSIONIC CLASSES Psion, Wilder Trollmadr (Troll-mađ-r ) or "mage" Volva (Völv-a ) "sibyl" Psychic Warrior Berserkr (Ber-serk-r ) or "bear shirt" (instead of fighting in a chain shirt, metamorphoses into a bear) Valkyrja (Val-kyr-ja ) "kill chooser," "valkyrie" VIKING NAMES FOR PSIONIC DISCIPLINES Clairsentience Spa (Spá ) or "prophecy" Psychometabolism, Psychoportation Hamfarir (Ham-far-ir) or "form travels" Telepathy Seidr (Seiđ-r ) or "witchery" (= Hostile Telepathy) Metacreativity, Psychokinesis Galdr (Galdr- ) or "enchantment" VIKING NAMES FOR PSIONIC DISCIPLES Seer Spamadr (Spá-mađ-r ) or "prophet" Egoist, Nomad Hamhlypr (Ham-hlyp-r) or "form leaper" Telepath Seidmadr (Seiđ-mađ-r ) or "witch" (= Hostile Telepath) Thulr (ţul-r ) "channeler" Kineticist, Shaper Galdramadr (Galdra-mađ-r ) or "enchanter" The Fear of Hostile Telepathy The Norse feared hostile Telepathy. Knowing another's mind was good, however manipulating another's freewill was wicked. They called the practice of bending another's will Seidr (hostile Telepathy), and referred to it as "playing with another's mindforce." Specifically, the Norse feared the Telepaths' ability to bend another's freewill (Charm), to implant delusions in the victim's mind (Suggestion), to control another's mind (Dominate), to create illusions in the victims mind (False Sensory Input), and even to steal another's lifeforce and give it to someone else (Empathic Transfer, Hostile). An Old Icelandic poem, Völuspá 22, communicates the cultural assessment of Seidr (hostile Telepathy) as malevolent. Heiđi hana héto, hvars til húsa kom, völo vélspá, vitti hon ganda, seiđ hon, hvars hon kunni, seiđ hon hug leikinn, ć var hon angan illrar brúđar. She was called Heiđr, when she came to houses, a Volva prophecying deceitfully (deluding victims with suggestions and changing their destiny). She knew staff-magic (to hit her victims psychically). She did Seidr where she could. She did Seidr, playing with (the victim's) mindforce. She was always a fragrance to malevolent brides (who hired her to charm or torture certain men until they married them). In Old Icelandic prose, Snorri writes in Ynglinga Saga 7, Óđinn kunni ţá íţrótt, er mestr máttr fylgđi, ok framđi siálfr, er seiđr heitr, en af ţuí mátti hann bita řrlög manna ok óorđna hluti, suá ok at gera mönnum bana eđa óhamingiu eđa vanheilendi, suá ok at taka frá mönnum vit eđa afl ok gefa öđrum. En ţessi fiölkyngi, er framiđ er, fylgir suá mikil ergi, at eigi ţótti karlmönnum skammlaust viđ at fara, ok var gyđiunum kend sú íţrótt. Óđinn knew that skill which .. he also practiced, which is called Seidr. And from that he could know the outcome of men .. and thus cause men deaths, or loss of hamingjur (psychic power), or loss of luck, and also thus take from one man knowledge or vitality, and give it to others. But this great-skill is attended by such shame that manly men considered it shameful to practice it, and so it was taught to priestesses. Seidr (hostile Telepathy) can control other people's wills (Charm, Suggestion, Mindseed) thus predetermining their outcomes. It can rob them of their memories (Mindwipe, Modify Memory, Mindswitch, Thieving Mindlink) and implant them in others, and even rob them of their lifeforce and implant it in others (Hostile Empathic Transfer). Odinn too uses Seidr to remove a victim's will or psychic wellbeing. He used it on the Norse Giant woman Rindr to seduce her to impregnate her, in order to father Baldur. Despite Odinn using Hostile Telepathy, generally, the Norse considered it so cowardly, few men were willing to do it. Below are several examples of hostile Telepathy in the Viking sagas. In Laxdćla saga 36, seiđr is used .. (by) Kotkell and Gríma (to) put Hrútr's whole family to sleep, .. except for Hrútr's twelve-year-old son Kári, against whom the magic is directed: the boy gets up to see the working (of seiđr) and falls dead a little way outside the door. The craft of nightmare-riding is also a part of seiđr, according to Snorri in Ynglinga saga 13, when Vanlandi has deserted a woman named Drífa, she goes to Hulđ seiđkona (the seiđr woman) and hires her to either bring him back or kill him. Vanlandi tries to go back, but his men realize that he is enchanted and keep him from doing so. A little later he awakes from his sleep and calls out, saying he is being trodden by a mare. His men try to help him, but when they go to his head, Hulđ treads his legs until they are nearly broken, and when they go to his feet, she treads his head until he dies. In Gísla saga Súrssonar 18, the seiđmađr (seiđr man) Ţórgrímr Nef is hired to (make) Gísli .. find no safe haven after he has slain Ţórgrímr Ţórsteinsson, although folk may wish to help him. Similarly, in Egils saga 59, queen Gunnhildr uses seiđr .. so that Egill Skalla-Grímsson should never bide peacefully in Iceland before she saw him. (She was) wishing to bring him into her clutches so she could get revenge upon him. This seiđr appears to magically instill in Egill a restlessness and depression which eventually bring him to England, and into the hands of Gunnhildr and Eiríkr Blood-Axe, and nearly to his death. .. In all of these instances, seiđr is an art that works on the mind and soul. It can cause psychological disturbances and even death. But it cannot, for instance, change the weather, still fires, raise or put down the walking dead, protect a warrior, or any of the other powers attributed to galdr magic. .. Although some of the elements of the shamanic complex are present in Norse literature, most notably faring forth in beast-form to gain information or do battle, they are specifically not associated with seiđr. Even Snorri separates Óđinn's arts of this sort from his specifically defined seiđr-skills. .. According to Snorri, seiđr was originally a Vanic craft which Freyja brought among the Ćsir. .. It is clear, (Óđinn) did learn the craft, as shown by the reference in Sigurđardrápa and Loki's *accusation* that "You practiced seiđr on Samsey, and you beat on a vétt (Gnome) as Völvas do (psychically with a staff)." .. Although at least Freyja, Óđinn, and Ţórr practiced seiđr, it appears that unlike spá (psychic prophecy) seiđr had no place in the actual religious usages of the North. - Kveldulfr Gundarsson (http://www.thetroth.org/resources/kveldulf/spaecraft.html) In sum, the Norse valued Spa (Clairsentience) to see the truth, foresee the future, and reinforce the probabilities of luck. By extension, they also valued the ability to know another's mind (Telepathy). However, they condemned Seidr (Hostile Telepathy) for manipulating another's thoughts, emotions, memories, or self-determination. The highest ideals in Viking society are freewill and a courageous life. Seidr was especially disturbing. Not only did it undermine someone elses freewill and courage, the Norse felt using Seidr was extremely unfair and cowardly. Seidr: while it is clear the Vikings believed people "shouldn't" do it, it is certain many did, including the gods. False Sensory Input Here's an example in the sagas of psionic Seidr (Hostile Telepathy) employing False Sensory Input or "sight deceiving" (sjón-hverfing ). The use of seiđr to affect the mind - with forgetfulness, delusion, illusion, or fear, a sudden mental or even a physical fog - is the hallmark of this type of magic. This is called sjón-hverfing, the magical delusion or "deceiving of the sight," where the seiđ-witch affects the minds of others so that they cannot see things as they truly are (Jochens, Old Norse Magic and Gender, 313). The role of seiđr in illusion magic is well-documented in the sagas, particularly being used to conceal a person from his pursuers. .. Eyrbyggja saga 20 uses this motif. A woman called Katla, skilled in seiđr, wished to save her son Odd from a band of men determined to kill him. As the men approached the house, Katla told Odd to sit beside her without moving, while she sat spinning yarn. Arnkell and his men searched the house, but saw nothing beside Katla but a distaff. They returned a second time, to find Katla in the porch; she was combing Odd's hair, but it seemed to them that she was grooming her goat. The third time Odd was lying in a heap of ashes, and they thought it was Katla's boar sleeping there. .. http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/seidhr.htm The Love of Clairsentience The Vikings love Clairsentience and hold it in the highest regard. They call it Spa (Spá ) or "prophesy" and value its surveillance, insight, foresight, intuition, and luck, both for personal wellfare and for warfare. The Spamadr (Spá-mađ-r) or "prophet" not only sees the possible future outcomes but can steer them as well, ensuring the most favorable outcome. Seers are the pillars of Viking communities. Seers who prove themselves to be exceptional psychics rise quickly in social status and power. They enjoy the highest honors, lavish hospitality, and are never far from the throne. The Vikings admire their leaders who are Seers. Professional Seers enjoy high standards of living, and Norse custom especially reveres talented women who serve the public good as a prophet. Many Seers also practice Seidr (Hostile Telepathy) to some degree. The Vikings tolerate proficiency in Seidr if they are excellent Seers, and if they keep the use of Seidr private and out of the public sphere.