Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-21-06, 11:29 PM	I am the oldest remaining of those in the guild house. I am an ancient being who can remember a time before their was a guild house, a being who can remember a time before their was an inter-foundation-game-war. I can remember days past when the entire cast of the guild house is completely different then it is today. Indeed I believe that I am the last of my generation, those born during the rise of the foundations and before the rise of the guildhouse. My name is Frostbite Ravenheart, a name that is very ancient indeed. Many of you reading this will have never heard of me. Some of the elder of you may recall it as a name you once heard a long time ago. But I believe non still standing truly can remember a time when my ancient name was once often spoken. I have been on and off for many months now, too upset by what has become of this Guild House to take any active interest in it. I’ve rarely posted in the last year or so and only to keep the peace within my foundation when it required it. I’ve been far to upset by the loss of virtually all of the guild houses older members. .I’m far too upset by this Inter-foundation-Game war. I’m far too upset by the lack of history known to the current generation that inhabits the guild house. I often talked about leaving within my own circle, the Council of the Archmages, and indeed I am virtually dead along with the Council of the Archmages. The CoA, and indeed the entire guildhouse itself, is but a small shadow of its former glory. But now I write this as my official resignation from all aspects of the guild house. I know that virtually nobody who is still around and remember me and thus very few of you will care or notice my leaving. However my purpose in writing this isn’t for sympathetic goodbyes but for one last chance to educate the new generation on the generation that came before you. The foundations, as we used to call them, all started with two threads: The Half-Elven foundation and the Council of Archmages. Both were created for like-minded people to gather, discuss topics and come up with creative ideas. They weren’t exclusive clubs but they had members lists and a created sense of identity. The original foundations did this so that they could form a tight-nit group that could really come together and create great things through a collaborated effort. As more and more of these foundations came into existence so did the controversies. There were controversies over the titles foundations would hand out to their members. One particular foundation came under ridicule for this, The Council of Archmages, for it attempted to create a hierarchy and let its members pick titles like “The Archmage of Music and Emotion.” The foundations suffered from many criticism and the longer this want on the more controversies that arose. But the people of the foundations fought long and hard to defend their foundations and try and attempt to create a place for themselves. I was one of these people. The end result of our long campaign and effort was the creation of the guild house. You see, the original foundations were not in one big place but in different sections all over the forum such as the Half-Elven foundation being under D&D’s “Races” section and The Council of Archmages being under the Spells and magic section. But with the creation of the guild-house all the foundations could be bound together in one place. All was good for a long while. Foundations continued doing what they did best, coming up with unique ideas and creations for whatever their foundation related to. Until the very well-respected leader of the Half-Elven foundation came up with what seemed like a great idea at the time. She came up with this idea of having all the foundations participate in one DnD like game where all the foundations would have their own influences on one virtual world. This invention was known as the “Inter-foundation Game Wars” or the IFGW. The creation of the first IFGW was one without many strong rules in place and where chaos and controversy where common place. Those with the most seniority at the time held the most influence. The game was very epic with such concepts as Divine Judges, Gods and one King who would rule the empire. It was during this age that I had reached my pinnicale of power. First off I was the sole leader of the oldest and most powerful foundation, the Council of the Archmages. Second, they decided to name me the starting King of their little world they created. Third, they made me one of the three Judges. You see the three judges were meant to be sort of the in-game “moderators” to make sure balance was instilled and that the game was kept fun. In order to do this, we were giving all most god-like powers. Can you believe that? Leader of the most power foundation, High King of the entire world and Godly powered Judge? Most of you haven’t even heard of me yet I was probably the strongest person in the original IFGW with maybe the sole exception being the most wonderful leader of the Half-Elven foundation that made the IFGW in the first place. Anyways it was crap like giving individuals all that power along with a host of other issues that lead to the death of the original IFGW. Then came a new initiative, the start of the second IFGW. I doubt I need to really fill in the gaps for this one as a least some of you were just starting to post here when the 2nd IFGW was first being thought up. The aim of the 2nd IFGW was to try and not repeat the mistakes of its predecessor by trying to make rules for everything. Rules and law were the name of the game for it. It was going good at first but it took so long people started loosing interest. It is at this point when many of the older people had almost all left. Coincidently, its at this point where my memory becomes a little fuzzy too. But regardless, so now we come to the creation of the IFGW 3. Also called “Round 2” of the IFGW 2. But I’m tired of it. I’m tired of waiting. I’ve been lurking and occasionally posting at the Council of the Archmages thread to keep things in line with the hope that this guildhouse will return to its former glory. I kept latching on because somewhere deep down I still thought that if the IFGW were too just die or somehow become successful that the guildhouse would become popular again and all my ancient friends and allies would have returned. But alas, it seems that the new generation of the guildhouse is failing to restore its popularity and former glory through the IFGW while at the same time unwilling to let go of the IFGW. There was a time when there was no IFGW. This was a great time. But when the IFGW came it dominated every aspect of the guildhouse and brainwashed the new generation. Now the generation has no concept of what the guildhouse is except as the background for the IFGW which is what they were brought up in. This is why I write this letter today, to educate and to official resign from all posts, positions and relations with the guild house. I simply wish to show you the light before I head out of the door. But I shall still be watching and guiding what is left of the Council of the Archmages in the shadows like I’ve done for so many years. And if you somehow take my message and return the guildhouse to its former glory I may return with it. But until then, the name Frostbite Ravenheart shall remain ancient and unheard. -Frosty
thasis 05-21-06, 11:56 PM	I've been in the Guild House for almost as long as I've been on the boards, and I remember the great era that you speak of. I also remember the first IFGW and your power in it. It was a great day. I can agree with you in the sense that things are slow, people have all but left, and things have sucken into a great unending shadow. The Guild of Ultimate Evil is the only truely active thread and even then it's only being posted on by a few people (myself included). I have thought about quiting the IFGW many times, and I have on numereous occasions (though no for long, and usualy not on my own choice). I'm am getting as fed up with things as you are. But I have taken a diffrent approach on things. Instead of completly disapearing I stay, I wait, and I post, hoping to keep things from completly disapearing, hoping for things to return. You will be missed. But alas, I will miss your presense, along with the presence of many of the elders of the Guild House. Goodbye old friend.
Zombomaniac 05-22-06, 12:22 AM	You say you don’t want goodbyes? Then I won't give you one, but others likely will. I am the newer of the old. I arrived just as the first IFGW died and I know of the old ones you speak of and I know how the new generation acts. They think they are doing great things here, but do not realize that what they have is but a crumb of the delicious cake we once had so long ago. I, like you two old ones, grow tired of the wait, but I suppose the wait is necessary. Is it necessary? I don’t really know, but I know I will do my best to keep things moving while we wait, be the wait necessary or not. -Zombie, Archmage of Travel
thasis 05-22-06, 01:06 AM	This is a tribute to the old days... The Skull of the Forgotten Major Artifact A once great and powerful empire once stood. An empire that stood even before the very times of Tryannor. Before the many heroes of legend. Before many of the great foundations that ruled this land. This empire was great. It was the time when things in the multiverse were at it's peak of power. All great things have their end. The world was consumed by the bickering of great dieties and mortals of epic power. This bickering led the crumbiling of time and space in itself. Now all that is left are a few remenants of the old gods who wander the land, some of them slowly dying and being forgotten by those who once followed them. Three of these great old gods, each one of opposing alignments, but equaly connected in power gathered together and created the Skull of the Forgotten. The Skull of the Forgotten is a skull... but not just any skull. It is a skull that contains all of the memories of the first age. Anyone who touches the Skull of the Forgotten, and concentrates for 1d4 hours on the scroll, gains 1d10 hours worth of memories from the first age. These hours of memories are chosen at random. Memories can only be drawn out of the Skull once per year per person.
Lady Rolindin 05-22-06, 01:37 AM	Frostbite_Ravenheart This is why I write this letter today, to educate and to official resign from all posts, positions and relations with the guild house. I simply wish to show you the light before I head out of the door. But I shall still be watching and guiding what is left of the Council of the Archmages in the shadows like I’ve done for so many years. And if you somehow take my message and return the guildhouse to its former glory I may return with it. since I have been here at the IFGw, I have been watching and waiting too for the guild houses to return to it's former glory. The coa will stay in the new verson of the game in some ways, we at the guild will have to determine how the guild stays in the game. As far as the history of the IFGW, most has been recorded in the coa lore and will stay with the past history of this world. It does seem like it has been a long time even for me, since I join this in 04. Frostbite_Ravenheart any comments you might have for the cao are welcome, we do need memebers to make comments even if they come and go. I think all the old members of the coa should keep thier old titles, so when they return (when they feel like it), they still have a place in the coa. new titles should be taken by new members. I still don't know why I was given the title of archmage of netheril magic. The orignal neteril archmage has that title. My title is the Archmage of Netheril magic history, Netheril and Delzone library chosen keeper. Like the netheril archmage I know netheril magic and magic items, the differance is I have most of the netheril knowledge, but My dwarfmage has elevoled with magic it self. since the first Mystraly goddes. there have been 2 other mystral god's since and my dwarfmage has know all three goddess. (I do not think that one archmage can claim all the netehril magic, it's too big: too many fields to claim knowledge over all the netheril magic. my dwarf mage knows certain areas, she become good at: not all of them. so we can both claim a Neteril archmage title.) The coa will live but as for members, we will have to wait to see how many come and go.
jagggar 05-22-06, 05:46 AM	There was a time when there was no IFGW. This was a great time. But when the IFGW came it dominated every aspect of the guildhouse and brainwashed the new generation. Now the generation has no concept of what the guildhouse is except as the background for the IFGW which is what they were brought up in. This is one of the things that really irritates me. It's one of the reasons the IFWG will be running in seperate threads when it starts again, no more foundations started just because of the IFWG just for the IFWG. While I'm mostly okay with the GMs taking the blame for the IFWG not happening right now, the responsiblity for the entire board being dead belongs to everyone on it. When our 'regulars' come by and complains about the board being dead they could instead be posting something on a thread they have interest in. Instead they drop by and ask when the IFWG is starting because, evidentally, that's all the guild house is around for. But it seems pretty hard to convince people otherwise since what will supposidly get them posting again? The IFWG.
thasis 05-22-06, 02:46 PM	I say the people should come back for more then just the IFGW. If you want things to come back help them come back. Post on the threads. If elders start posting on the threads other might come. It may no be quick, but is anything that is great quick?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-22-06, 03:32 PM	bring back the elders, bring back the youngsters just bring **** back.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-22-06, 04:11 PM	Re-reading what I wrote late last night I relize how much of my little letter sound arogant and insulting. That was not the point but it seems that at least the people who have posted got the idea. This makes me happy. I was a little worried that the letter would be taken poorly. Maybe theres hope after all. Jagggar, I think you make a good point and I for one don't blame the GM's at all. I can remember how much crap you guys have taken and it seems like the more people that tried to help with the IFGW the more things slowed down. Kind of like the saying "too many cooks spoil the broth." The idea of moving the IFGW is very good but the problem how then will we remotivate people into posting at the guildhouse? It just seems that so many people have either been brainwashed by the IFGW or joined the guildhouse just for the IFGW. Zombomanic - Don't take this personally I mean, I know I know you and I know I used to value you alot but can you remind me of your former name beacuse its buggin the nine hells out of me. If you have some reason for not saying it alloud atleast give me the first letter and I'll remember. I must also add, of all the old people I miss most, Bait and Kedi are at the top of the list followed by Lady Sil and Scully. I may not have known all of them as well as I'd like to but I still knew them to be very good people. -Frosty
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-22-06, 05:38 PM	Ay, things have gone to the Hells...we need motivation... :rolleyes:
Aramar the Black 05-22-06, 06:14 PM	I feel like posting, but I don't what to say. I remeber the days before the guild house; those were good times. Some of the greatest times. Even the times before the IFGW weren't bad. But I don't want to linger on my feelings of the Games. Another time, anotehr place. Your name might go unspoken, but it will not be forgotten. i know that there are probably many out there who are simply shadows, always watching, like constellations in the sky. And I am an archivest, immersing myself in collected knowldge of the ages. I'll try an keep the hearthfire alive. And if you ever feel like coming back, I've got a seat saved.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-22-06, 06:16 PM	We shall welcome everyone back with open arms. Full of bloody weapons of course. ^_^ :D
thasis 05-22-06, 06:31 PM	Anyone who wishes to come back will be greatly appreciated. If enough people come back things might be able to get back to the days how they were.
Wilds 05-22-06, 06:34 PM	I wish that I had been around when the IFGW was more of what you speak. I know it as a location where people run the Wars from, not much more. Though the first Shadow's Breath and Blade, run by Kingside, showed me what the IFGW should have been I beleive. We talked and found ways of the assassin, not for use, but of talk. I hope that you reconsider Frostbite, you can help turn it around.
thasis 05-22-06, 06:36 PM	I agree. Threads need topics, discussion (that isn't JUST the wars, but can pertain to it at the same time), and active posters. Frostbite, if you helped (along with other lurkers who are waiting) then things might be great again.
DeimosDeMalus 05-22-06, 07:00 PM	I am also considering retiring from the boards in the future, although I may stay and begin posting some creatures....:)
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-22-06, 10:53 PM	I agree. Threads need topics, discussion (that isn't JUST the wars, but can pertain to it at the same time), and active posters. Frostbite, if you helped (along with other lurkers who are waiting) then things might be great again. Well to be honest with you Thasis, I'm slightly affraid of commitment. I'm affraid to get involved beacuse I've seen what the guildhouse can do to hard work. There have also been a number of times historically where I have signed up to do something only to be whisked away by a more pressing matter in real life. Keeping order in the CoA, which has since the fall of the first IFGW been my only job, is extremely easy as they tend to be a good group of civil people. Like I said, if things were to change and the guildhouse be brought back to even a hope of its former glory I doubt I could resist comming back and I know I would be recived with welcome arms. But until then, I shall remain in the shadows like i know a least a small number of other old and forgotten posters do. Yes Scully, I'm mainly referring to you. I know you rarely post and like to keep quite but everytime something related to politics or history becomes the main theme of discussion at the CoA you always seem to show up. I'm always going to be watching and I'll always be adding pesky little comments like this to try and keep you guys in line. On one last note, if their was really someone who could get us motivated and active again it would be the former leader of the Half-Elven Foundation, Silmarion. She was always one of the most active and influence people around here and I definitly noticed a big change once she left. Lady Silm left the guildhouse beacuse she didn't want to have to deal with all the crap at the time but she vowed when she left that she would return. Although our friendship was somewhat strained during her last day's here I do miss her company and I definitly think of all people old and new she would be the one person that could really bring this guildhouse to order. -Frosty
jagggar 05-22-06, 11:11 PM	I know where you're coming from. Long ago I found my home on the Internet (The DigiExperience's FanFic forum) where I learned to roleplay freeform style. It was a seperate message board from the main boards. Raidix, site owner and administrator, eventually merged the two boards and the fanfic board was shut down (after first falling into disrepair). Most everyone left, a few coming back now and then, but if I wasn't the only one who stuck it out the whole time through, I was damn near close. You'll never be able to forget the "Good Ol'e Days" but returnning to them is godawful hard if it's possible at all. As far as motivating people to post here, when I create something, I try to see if it fits with a guild. If it does, I'll likely post it on the guild thread before posting it on the main boards, I then link back to the Guild with a "Origionally Posted At [Guild Name]" either at the top or bottom. Okay, that's a little less motivation and a little more advertising, but if no one but us knows that the Guild House exists, that doesn't really get us any new posters either. Next couple of days I might PM one of my friends from TDE, see if he'd be intersted in The Guild House. If he does show up, you guys might have to beat me into submission to make sure I keep up with my GM duties towards the IFWG. Offtopicnessism: If I sound somehow 'off' I'm blaming it on the surgery. I got an implant today! :D Last time I went under. This time I was numb but awake while they drilled a nice big hole in my jaw and screwed something in. Lesson learned today: Do NOT take pain pills on an empty stomach. Up-chucking when you can't rinse your mouth out sucks.
Zombomaniac 05-23-06, 12:50 AM	Zombomanic - Don't take this personally I mean, I know I know you and I know I used to value you alot but can you remind me of your former name beacuse its buggin the nine hells out of me. If you have some reason for not saying it alloud atleast give me the first letter and I'll remember. -Frosty Dont worry I understand. I used to be Cazic. @everyone I think one thing that could help separate things and make things less confusing is Sub-forums. In the Sub-forums everyone would still be able to make threads like the old days, but the IFWG, the RP only IFWG, and the OOC Creations stuff would have their own areas. That way things are seperate, less confusing, and more free.
thasis 05-23-06, 01:23 AM	We'd have to ask a WizO to do that, and they probally don't want to do jack untill the forums restart.
Orcy The Green Wonder 05-23-06, 02:03 AM	Orcy notices he is distinctly absent from Frosty's post. Has he been forgotten so easily he wonders? No matter either way. Orcy has been inspired to try and boost things back up. He is going to try and get some creation going again. Some talk about subjects and guilds and not just idle chatter on the threads for guilds. Now, lets hope Orcy's energy lasts in this endevor, as it has been lacking as of late. He remembers the old days, and the things that happened way back when. You are hardly the eldest of us all, there are a few of us left. Orcy keeps a watchful eye out, but has been so distracted lately that he hasn't actively participated much, he believes that needs to change. Orcy fought for this board, to have this established as a way to keep the foundations alive in their near destruction. Orcy is one of the founding fathers of the guild house, and frankly he too is disappointed in what has happened to it. Orcy has watched newcomers verbally abused and driven off because they were doing what we old members did, roleplaying without set statistics. He has watched people insulted and rudness at a level that is frankly a slap in his face. Orcy is very much insulted by many of the things that happen here today. Some posters create guilds every month based on a new character idea, these are typically spammed with things that have nothing to do with the guild, and are then left alone and forgotten. That is not the spirit of the guild house, half-formed ideas being made into chat-room-like posts is not what we are here for. We exist to build a community where those of like mind can speak to one another on their likes. We exist as a place to create and build, where we can converse about our likes. Where we can come together with others that enjoy the same things as we and work as a group. The Half Orc Foundation, The Half Elven Foundation, The Elf Foundation, The Council of Archmages, The Amazing Creators Foundation, these were some of our old friends. Those that came together to work on like ideas, races, and ways of playing. So many wonderful things were created in these, and many others through the years. Orcy would hope that this returns to it's former glory. Since he currently has no active founations and there are rarely any half-orc lovers that stop by... Orcy is going to begin by creating a new foundation. He does not do this as an example to make many new foundations, there are plenty that can still be revived. This will not be a place to simply chat about what you did this week or what you watched on TV or had for lunch. Orcy would prefer talk about the topic, creating while we speak. Long sets of spam-like posts will anger Orcy, and his club will meet thy head! Now, something Orcy has not said in a long time. Something that he needs to say, because it has been FAR too long. Orcy would like to say this one thing, this one word that he was always associated with back in the days when the foundations were young... HOOAH!
thasis 05-23-06, 10:08 AM	Finnaly a reason minded poster. I will have to admit, I got slightly worked up in some of the things you have said (though I have never found myself insulting to other posters, only attempting to welcome them with open hands), but I have certainly gotten off topic. And I'm wanting just as mutch as you to get things back how they were. I am glad you are back. I hope your return is just the beggining of revival of the Guild House.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-23-06, 03:17 PM	Hmmm welcome back old friend :P
Frostbite_Ravenheart 05-23-06, 05:03 PM	Orcy notices he is distinctly absent from Frosty's post. Has he been forgotten so easily he wonders? As to being the eldest of everyone involved in the foundations...I based that reasoning off of the CoA. The CoA has kept track of their members since day one and looking back at the original 31 members of the CoA, I am the only one left. For that reason I considered myself oldest because the CoA is one of the oldest foundations. I'd be impossible now that all of our orginal foundation threads are destroyed to determine who of us is truly the eldest. But the fact of who of us is oldest is irrelevant, the fact that were both old and agree on the subject at hand is much more important. Hell, I'll even admit that once our "battle" with the WizO's were over and we were granted our guild house you probably did a lot more work for the community then I ever did. I was far too selfish at the time and was primarily concerned with my own foundation as opposed to you who worked a lot more for the good of all foundations. -Frosty
jagggar 06-04-06, 04:04 AM	Okay, it sounds from some talking we're doing that "the old way" is this loose D&D rules with the ECL 15 game we were trying to run. Could one or more of the "Ancients" (those who were around (for a solid chunk of time) Pre-IFWG if not Pre-Guildhouse) share how things were done "the old, old way"?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-04-06, 04:40 AM	*Notice* I've stopped using the Deimos De Malus s/n. so, consider it retired.
Tenzhi 06-04-06, 05:11 AM	I am the oldest remaining of those in the guild house. I would dispute that.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-04-06, 01:47 PM	I would dispute that. Umm, Go ahead. But like I said in earlier posts that wasn't at all my main point and I relize there are others who are as old as I am. -Frosty
thasis 06-04-06, 09:21 PM	If people take a look around, we should see the boom in posting activity of the recent. It has become exceptionaly good, with mature posters willing to RP, and we're peacefully working out what's going on. Things seem to be going well... I personaly see a possible ressurection spell... maybe it was cast by an unknown *cough* Thasis *cough* being...<<...>>... (I love contributing sucess to myself, makes me feel important). God it's fun being God... :P To bad the world is going to end on Tuesday :P
jagggar 06-04-06, 11:57 PM	Okay, it sounds from some talking we're doing that "the old way" is this loose D&D rules with the ECL 15 game we were trying to run. Could one or more of the "Ancients" (those who were around (for a solid chunk of time) Pre-IFWG if not Pre-Guildhouse) share how things were done "the old, old way"? No answer to my question?
Aramar the Black 06-04-06, 11:59 PM	To bad the world is going to end on Tuesday :P Well, there are diputes about the actual number of the Beast; according to some, the world shuld have ended last Thursday. On the matter of The Omen, however, I got something fun to say: I work at a movie theatre. We'll see what happens.
thasis 06-05-06, 12:12 AM	The world for my parents will end if they don't let me go see that movie on 6/6/6 *shakes fist*
Tenzhi 06-05-06, 01:04 PM	Okay, it sounds from some talking we're doing that "the old way" is this loose D&D rules with the ECL 15 game we were trying to run. Could one or more of the "Ancients" (those who were around (for a solid chunk of time) Pre-IFWG if not Pre-Guildhouse) share how things were done "the old, old way"? Pre-IFGW and Guild House, there was nothing but roleplay and ideas. Levels were but a dim notion at best as far as characters were concerned. It wasn't so much a game as a loose communal gathering. It wasn't really until we got woefully shunted into a dark corner of the forum that it became necessary to install an actual game into the equation. Mostly due to a depressing decrease in traffic brought on by having the threads tossed out of areas where they could attract like-minded folks on a more regular basis and by association bring in a steady stream of new idealogical development. While at the time it was the only way the guilds could be saved, all it really did was draw out their demise. And it was an injustice as the guilds produced much content which was on-topic for the areas they were in at the time. But those are old wounds revisited. Stagnation led to the necessity for rules and game development. However, the community in this area seems to lack the focus and temporal dedication necessary to keep up a game. To whit: it needs a game to keep things rolling, but the "players" are far too casual to run a proper game for a considerable length of time. It meanders and falls apart. That may seem like a grim assessment - but look at the assessor.
thasis 06-05-06, 08:43 PM	Well with seeing how things have been going, shouldn't we attempt to change things? We learn, and adjust based on our enviroment. It's how humans work.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-07-06, 01:56 PM	Whut'chu gabbin' bout', we'z aint no friggin' 'umie meat bags! *immitates WH40K orks* speakin of, Thasis, you gonna send anything out? :P
Dyne 06-07-06, 05:12 PM	Wow, this thread makes me feel old. I believe I can rather relate to Frostbite. I discovered the Guildhouse while the IFWG was still being planned. But, as I recall, things seemed to have already been in a steady decline. The original purpose of the IFWG was to create interest in the forum, give people a reason to stick around and newer people to join in. Looking back, I believe the biggest mistake was stopping the 1st IFWG in the first place. I sometimes wonder, if instead of starting over, what if we had just stuck with it and tried to continue? The problems we had encountered had nothing to do with rules, really, they were issues between individual people. Those same issues continued on into the later incarnations of the game, creating even more problems until the thing crashed again. Most of all, though, I believe we were all simply inexperienced. We had no idea what we were getting into when we started this mess. To make matters worse, we never were able to really learn; the people that were originally in charge quit, leaving more inexperienced people to take their place. Basically, instead of learning and moving forward, we quit, started over, and ran over the exact same speed bumps over and over again. I believe the more important thing is to be mindful of the present, not the past. Focus on moving forward and learning from past mistakes, rather than merely dwelling on them. If there's anything we need right now, it's to just start posting again, talk about what the guilds were originally set up to talk about, re-build up trust of one another, and get this thing moving again.
Dyne 06-07-06, 05:34 PM	Okay, it sounds from some talking we're doing that "the old way" is this loose D&D rules with the ECL 15 game we were trying to run. Could one or more of the "Ancients" (those who were around (for a solid chunk of time) Pre-IFWG if not Pre-Guildhouse) share how things were done "the old, old way"? Part it was run somewhat like a regular D&D game, with the guilds as the adventuring parties. An adventure would be run here and there (actually, come to think of it, only one adventure was ever run: The Drow Murder Mystery in the Underdark), and the guilds would compete on who could complete the adventure first. A great deal of it, however, was on the individual characters running around, threatening each other, getting killed in the arena, etc. Then, a war broke out between the bad guys and the good guys, and when things got out of hand at the Half-Elven Foundation, the whole thing was cut off. That was pretty much it. Which reminds me, wasn't there talk awhile back of moving the Guild House to the D&D Boards? When is that gonna happen? We seriously need the move eventually, it's the only way we'll be able to keep up traffic.
jagggar 06-07-06, 06:54 PM	Actually, I'm not so sure about moving anymore. As I said in Meta, I think, this isn't just a D&D board. Any club from anywhere on the boards gets moved here. I think a couple of things I've mentioned before to increase traffic were (I think several people have said this one) to put a link in your sig to the Guild House. If you create something that you can post at a guild and post it on the main boards, you can put a link to your cross post. I make things far too rarely for that to be really effective on my part, but I do do it when I can find the right guild.
thasis 06-07-06, 08:55 PM	Almost anything non-D&D has complety died. This in general, is pretty much a D&D board. Unless somebody made a complaint (which they pretty much wouldn't as far as I can tell) things would be fine, if not better, if we moved this to the D&D Board.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-07-06, 09:31 PM	@Dyne/Jagggar - Although I personally liked the first IFGW it had some major problems with overpoweredness. Let me requote myself real quick: It was during this age that I had reached my pinnicale of power. First off I was the sole leader of the oldest and most powerful foundation, the Council of the Archmages. Second, they decided to name me the starting King of their little world they created. Third, they made me one of the three Judges. You see the three judges were meant to be sort of the in-game “moderators” to make sure balance was instilled and that the game was kept fun. In order to do this, we were giving all most god-like powers. Can you believe that? Leader of the most power foundation, High King of the entire world and Godly powered Judge? Most of you haven’t even heard of me yet I was probably the strongest person in the original IFGW with maybe the sole exception being the most wonderful leader of the Half-Elven foundation that made the IFGW in the first place. See the problem with this was that people who were both very active and knew all the people who played the largest roles in the creation of the IFGW had a little special treatment. But the real problems came with the rise of one member in particular, whos name I can't recall at the momment, started causing real havok. Without getting into the nitty-gritty details he was abusing the lack of rules a little too much. He was causing conflicts both IC and OOC and at one point the conflicts within the game started to mix with conflicts outside of the game. Things got way to personal and there was no system to say simply "well you just can't do that." We didn't really have people like Jagggar who officially oversaw things and made sure things ran smooth. The leader of the Half-Elven Foundation took the most initiative and held the most respect so she was pretty much considered leader of the guildhouse. Thing is, she had no real power to enforce any of the rules that were largely made up by her. So without making things more confusing...things just simply started to crumble. In summary...the conflicts that came out of the first IFGW lead to its own destruction simply beacuse of the lack of rules and a strong central authority. -Frosty
Dyne 06-07-06, 09:59 PM	See the problem with this was that people who were both very active and knew all the people who played the largest roles in the creation of the IFGW had a little special treatment. If I recall, you never really did anything in the first IFWG. Even if you might have held a great deal of "power," you never did anything with it. The judges never really did much of anything either, except rank the participants of the Drow Murder Mystery (which reminds me, I never received my reward for tying for 1st-place....). The only one who was favoring anyone was that leader of the Half-Elven Foundation you were talking about. When the IFWG2 was being set up, I remember him trying to convince the GM's to bend the rules a bit to accomodate some of his friends. But the real problems came with the rise of one member in particular, whos name I can't recall at the momment, started causing real havok. Without getting into the nitty-gritty details he was abusing the lack of rules a little too much. He was causing conflicts both IC and OOC and at one point the conflicts within the game started to mix with conflicts outside of the game. Things got way to personal and there was no system to say simply "well you just can't do that." The name Silmarien Aldalome comes to mind. Again as I recall, the IFWG1 stopped because of disputes over Silmarien's actions, including certain NPC's and some kind of obalisk appearing out of nowhere to battle the Guild of Ultimate Evil invasion. Talk was that he was abusing his power as a GM to favor his own character, as well as those of his friends. In summary...the conflicts that came out of the first IFGW lead to its own destruction simply beacuse of the lack of rules and a strong central authority. Not really. The IFWG's destruction happened because of the actions of certain individuals. The rules just failed to protect us from those individuals.
thasis 06-07-06, 10:17 PM	I say you people are blaming Sil wayyyyy to much. Now I have to admit, yes he did cause some problems (alot of problems), but we didn't very diplomatically in dealing with them. It's not a one-sided problem my friends.
Dyne 06-07-06, 10:33 PM	I say you people are blaming Sil wayyyyy to much. Now I have to admit, yes he did cause some problems (alot of problems), but we didn't very diplomatically in dealing with them. It's not a one-sided problem my friends. Sil is the most manipulative person I have ever met. He did all kinds of crap behind-the-scenes, through private messages. He ticked off too many people, and some of them just didn't want to take his crap anymore (such as Droga). But, I am pretty certain that was his plan all along: tick them off so they look like the bad guy. But I don't want to talk about this anymore. I am glad Sil is gone, I hope he never comes back, we're much better off without him. I'll leave it at that.
thasis 06-07-06, 10:43 PM	Well I can honestly say I hope he comes back. I always respected him (maybe not some actions), but realy everybody makes mistakes. But realy, let's end that. I need the link to these new forums.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-09-06, 10:14 PM	If I recall, you never really did anything in the first IFWG. Even if you might have held a great deal of "power," you never did anything with it. The judges never really did much of anything either, except rank the participants of the Drow Murder Mystery (which reminds me, I never received my reward for tying for 1st-place....). I never did anything beacuse I was not a "GM" or whatever. My role was strictly in-game and I never wanted to get involved with the out of game conflicts. Thus I never tried to use power I had IG to affect the outcome of the Out of game conflicts beacuse that wouldn't have made much sense. Other than that I never really got a chance to do much beacuse all the game ever turned an emotional out of game conflict. The name Silmarien Aldalome comes to mind. Again as I recall, the IFWG1 stopped because of disputes over Silmarien's actions, including certain NPC's and some kind of obalisk appearing out of nowhere to battle the Guild of Ultimate Evil invasion. Talk was that he was abusing his power as a GM to favor his own character, as well as those of his friends. [/QUOTE=Dyne] I have things to add about this but I'll let it die if you want. [QUOTE=Dyne]Not really. The IFWG's destruction happened because of the actions of certain individuals. The rules just failed to protect us from those individuals. I don't really see your point here. Those certain individuals only destroyed the IFGW beacuse of the weakness of the rules. Dont you think that if we had people like Jagggar who were official "game masters" that things would have run much more smooth and less personal? -Frosty
Tenzhi 06-10-06, 12:45 AM	I don't really see your point here. Those certain individuals only destroyed the IFGW beacuse of the weakness of the rules. Dont you think that if we had people like Jagggar who were official "game masters" that things would have run much more smooth and less personal? Honestly? I think it still would've become personal. The individuals in question were determined to manipulate the rules in their individual favours, whether consciously or not. When caught on it they either cried to the heavens that it was unfair for them to be balanced out, or tried to browbeat the populace into putting rules into place that would allow them to get away with what they were doing.
thasis 06-10-06, 02:23 AM	All we're doing here is stirring up old problems that are gone and over with. I rspected Sil (who you are not-so-descretly talking about) and I realy don't appreciate your continual bashing of him, when obviously the whole situation is over.
Tenzhi 06-10-06, 03:08 AM	I respect Sil as well, and I'm not just talking about him. I truly regret that he failed to take my advice and warnings to heart. Had he done so he might still be with us today. Sometimes it sucks to be right. And while Dyne is venomous about it, he speaks true when he says Sil was involved in behind-the-scenes manipulation (and I speak as one of a number of key figures that were barraged with attempts at manipulation through PM). I don't speak out of hate or anger on the issue. This is merely fact as I have experienced it. However, I don't think Sil did so with consciously malicious intent. He merely viewed the online community as a socio-political scene and acted accordingly to achieve ends that he though were in the best interest of said community. And thus he engaged in socio-political manipulation. Such attempts have a tendency to backfire and cause ill will. But he wasn't the only problem by far. And some who'd lay the problem squarely on his shoulders were as much a part of it. Yes, there were problems with the rules. But this is D&D and D&D always has rule problems. Generally speaking, rule problems don't destroy games - people problems do. The former merely brings out the latter in force. And no one's really trying to stir anything up. This is simply history that we're discussing. We could ignore it, but those who do so are doomed to repeat it so they say.
thasis 06-10-06, 04:22 PM	I understand muchly about what your saying, and yes Sil did somethings that probally weren't the best thing to do, but like you said, it probally wasn't him trying to be directly malicious. People make mistakes, and people regret them. Honestly though, I just don't feel right about putting such emphasis on him and his problems. There were others and most of the comments are being jabbed at him.
redhase 06-10-06, 04:53 PM	Thasis Honestly though, I just don't feel right about putting such emphasis on him and his problems. There were others and most of the comments are being jabbed at him. Sil is not to blame for the failer of the game, the blame is with the gm's all of them plain and simple. The game became which gm you know and if your their friend. If not good luck on getting things approved, if your a friend of the gm's you could get a sneeze approved. The game was about who you knew, and witch gm was your friend. truth is truth, it started from the top.
thasis 06-10-06, 05:07 PM	That was in some effect true, but like I said, we can't just blame one thing. There were multiple factors.
Dyne 06-10-06, 05:17 PM	I understand muchly about what your saying, and yes Sil did somethings that probally weren't the best thing to do, but like you said, it probally wasn't him trying to be directly malicious. People make mistakes, and people regret them. Honestly though, I just don't feel right about putting such emphasis on him and his problems. There were others and most of the comments are being jabbed at him. Even so, I believe all (or most) of the others came out and admitted that what they had done was wrong, and tried to make amends. Sil never did that, and instead acted like he was being attacked if someone basically said "Hey, you can't do that." I, too, still respect Sil for what strengths he does have. But, I felt betrayed by some of the things he had done. Unless he came out and fessed up to some of it, I don't believe I could ever trust him again.
redhase 06-10-06, 07:52 PM	Dyne Quote: Originally Posted by thasis I understand muchly about what your saying, and yes Sil did somethings that probally weren't the best thing to do, but like you said, it probally wasn't him trying to be directly malicious. People make mistakes, and people regret them. Honestly though, I just don't feel right about putting such emphasis on him and his problems. There were others and most of the comments are being jabbed at him. Even so, I believe all (or most) of the others came out and admitted that what they had done was wrong, and tried to make amends. Sil never did that, and instead acted like he was being attacked if someone basically said "Hey, you can't do that." I, too, still respect Sil for what strengths he does have. But, I felt betrayed by some of the things he had done. Unless he came out and fessed up to some of it, I don't believe I could ever trust him again. some other part of the game failer was not having 3 gm's, this is why: if all three gm's were in the game when a player requested to have something approved. all 3 gm's would look at it and say yes or no. that way the object could be approved or not. the way it was, if orcy didn't approve you thing, you go talk to sil. one of them would approve it, if you was a friend to one of them, you would go ask you friend. and most of the time from wjat i know friendship won out and both gm's were doing this. overidding each other and saying go ahead and use it , don't mind what the other one says. the two of them did no fess up to this and it did happen alot. i would respect both of them if they both admitted this. But i don't respect either of them, they both killed the game. friendship has it's place in games, but when you in charge of the game friendship goes out the window, remember that Thasis. in the 15th level game, never approve any thing unless the other 2 Gms' have a look at it and the majory rules yes or no. friendship has no part of being a gm, everone is a player and not a friend, and invovle the other gm's to get something approved (when a player asks.)
jagggar 06-10-06, 08:28 PM	Actually, I don't really recall Orcy ever approving anything, at least not anything that was hotly debated. The 'rule' I and a couple of others sort of discovered was along the lines of: "If you want it balanced, ask Orcy. If you want it, make it pretty and ask Sil." friendship has no part of being a gm, everone is a player and not a friend, I can't agree at all. If you can't be friends, you probably shouldn't be playing together. That said, you shouldn't let your friendships with any of the players override your game balance-sense (but it can happen).
redhase 06-10-06, 08:46 PM	Jaggar I can't agree at all. If you can't be friends, you probably shouldn't be playing together. That said, you shouldn't let your friendships with any of the players override your game balance-sense (but it can happen). If you can not as a dm or gm witch ever title you use seperate your self from your friendships then you should not be in charge of the game. friends are friends, but when it comes to the game, friendships go out the window. Your friendship with other players has to be watched so you don't give privledge to them and not the other players. treat every player the same, that way no player can claim favortism and make sure every player goes but the rules set. friendship has it's place but not in a game to ensure fairness to every palyer. I have been in charge of many games for years, and friendship has no place in my games. the rules are the rules and you being my friend does not allow you special previgles. on the contrary it makes you to have to watch your self and not give out specail faviors to your friends. the same rule applies to ever player even if they are your friend or not plane and simple.
thasis 06-10-06, 09:48 PM	Friends are for the week. People who think you are there friends, making them suseptable to manipulation? Now that's more my style. :D But on a more serious note, yes, GM duties and friendships should be kept wayyyyy out of the picture. If your a GM you should treat everybody equaly, and work with the rules, not your friends.
Dyne 06-10-06, 10:02 PM	Actually, I don't really recall Orcy ever approving anything, at least not anything that was hotly debated. The 'rule' I and a couple of others sort of discovered was along the lines of: "If you want it balanced, ask Orcy. If you want it, make it pretty and ask Sil." I can't agree at all. If you can't be friends, you probably shouldn't be playing together. That said, you shouldn't let your friendships with any of the players override your game balance-sense (but it can happen). What she said. Friends are for the week. But what about week-ends? :D
thasis 06-10-06, 10:09 PM	Weekandler friends are acceptable :D :P
jagggar 06-10-06, 10:15 PM	I can. . . GM for my friends. And I like to consider you all my friends. Get paid to be GM. (And that would require you guys to send me money since WotC doesn't.) be a killer GM.You guys choose. I have never said favor one friend over another. That doesn't ruin games, that ruins friendships period.
redhase 06-10-06, 11:14 PM	Jaggar I can't agree at all. If you can't be friends, you probably shouldn't be playing together. That said, you shouldn't let your friendships with any of the players override your game balance-sense (but it can happen). I have never let that happen in any game i have been in charge of and it never will. If your my friend, you will get the same treatment as the other players, no special treatment in any form. My players know this and my friends that play with me know this also, I might talk to them more because i know them better than a new player at my table. But I do not allow any rules to be slacked for a freind, never or allow any player to use something and not others, the game has to be fair. if something is not allowed in the game, then no player can use the thing or things. it can only happen if you can not seperate your self form the players, and then it will happen. I will never bend any rule for any of my players, a rule is a rule. I do not wish to be known as someone who gives faviors to their friends, when I'm in charge of a game. you lose more people that way, if you stick to the rules of the game your players respect you more. and your friends tend to stay your friends, other gm or dm that give favoirs to others lose players and can't figure out why, a true fact.
Tenzhi 06-10-06, 11:50 PM	Actually, I don't really recall Orcy ever approving anything, at least not anything that was hotly debated. The 'rule' I and a couple of others sort of discovered was along the lines of: "If you want it balanced, ask Orcy. If you want it, make it pretty and ask Sil." It didn't even have to be pretty. Some of the things people were sending to me (and yes, there was a time when people were being directed to send things to me for approval) were incoherently written and overpowered. I would pass my recommendation of non-approval to Sil and advice on what to change to the player, then the player (no names) would whine to Sil and recommendations I made would go out the window. It was irritating. Why bother sending it to me, then?
Frostbite_Ravenheart 06-11-06, 12:00 AM	I have never said favor one friend over another. That doesn't ruin games, that ruins friendships period. I have to admit you one first were made GM I was skeptical of you beacuse you weren't around that long before...but I definitly think you have made a great GM and you had the extra-special job of cleaning up the mess of the first IFGW and making things much more neat and organized. Not to kiss your ask just show my appreciation. I never had the patience nor motivation to do what you did. -Frosty
thasis 06-11-06, 03:16 PM	I have to agree with you Frosbite. Jaggar, even though younger to the Guild House then some of us has proven to be an exceptional GM. At first, like you were, I was skeptical. I didn't know what quite to expect. Not to be sexist, but I thought you might be a little fluffy cause you were a girl (I've had some bad experiances in the past :nonono:) and because you were younger to the boards, but you totally changed my opinion. That isn't to say that I agree with everything you do, and that your characters are my main character's mortal enemy ;)
jagggar 06-14-06, 11:12 AM	I have to admit you one first were made GM I was skeptical of you beacuse you weren't around that long before...but I definitly think you have made a great GM and you had the extra-special job of cleaning up the mess of the first IFGW and making things much more neat and organized. Not to kiss your ask just show my appreciation. I never had the patience nor motivation to do what you did. -Frosty :embarrass Not to be sexist, but I thought you might be a little fluffy cause you were a girl.... Awww. . . all these characters are so big and mean. I think things would be just peachy-keen if everybody played were-sheep. Were-sheep are so cute and fluffly, kinda like Flaffy. They're not scary and dangerous like bunnies. :D :P :D and that your characters are my main character's mortal enemy ;) Wait, when did that happen? :confused:
necrodude16 06-14-06, 06:10 PM	:embarrass Awww. . . all these characters are so big and mean. I think things would be just peachy-keen if everybody played were-sheep. Were-sheep are so cute and fluffly, kinda like Flaffy. They're not scary and dangerous like bunnies. :D :P :D Wait, when did that happen? :confused: your everyones mortal enemy ;)
thasis 06-15-06, 12:29 AM	Well my characters tend to be radically evil, while yours tend to be radically good. See where mortal enemies comes in :)