The "Balance" Brigade [Archive] - Wizards Community

The "Balance" Brigade [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jagggar
09-13-06, 06:52 PM Maybe some of us do have delusions that we can create a "Perfectly Balanced D&D". But we have a right to have delusions, don't we?

Those of us here at the "Balance" Brigade are interested in the concept of "balance" in D&D, both in materials released and in the application of house rules.

For whatever reason, we've come to the conclusion that we can't judge everything based purely on the text in the books without examples in play and/or that arena battles often don't do justice to classes that shine in areas other than straight-up combat and/or that challenges created to test a lone character don't simulate a party adventuring together.

The "Balance" Brigade will host a Dungeon of Random Encounters (DoRE) in Legends of the Guilds. First we will run a control group though the DoRE with as standard of an average party as possible. Once we have that done we can start testing variables in the form of party size, party make-up, and variant rules.

Ideally, we will get enough members so that we can run a couple of different DoREs at the same time so we can get more variables evaluated.
jagggar
09-13-06, 06:56 PM Topic Rundown

The "Balance" Brigade
Here we will decide upon what we want to test and how we want to test it. Once the parties have been run though the DoRE we will come back here to discuss the results.

Dungeon of Random Encounters -To be created
We will run our encounters here.

DoRE - Character Records -To be created
Character Sheets should be kept here. When updating a character (specifically, when leveling up) we will post new character sheets instead of editing new ones. This way we can use the same characters over again to create a larger average sample.
jagggar
09-13-06, 06:58 PM Basic Control Group Rules

Uses rules from 3.5 Core/SRD with Offical Errata (Complete Psionic and other WotC releases are not considered Offical Errata).
Typical party of 4.
The "typical party" roles should be filled with classes typical for the role. Warrior Healer Skillmoneky/Trapfinder Mage
Standard Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) or Standard Point Buy. (Undecided at this time)

"Advanced" Control Group Rules

"Advanced" Control Groups are not actually more complex or anything, but will typically assume one or more things different from the Basic Control Group. Changes could be:
Additional materials assumed (IE Complete Series).
Larger or smaller party size.
Non-standard party roles or atypical classes filling the standard roles (IE a cleric being built to take the warrior role).
Non-standard point buy or array or rolling or very odd rolling.
A houserule that effects all charcters and usually NPCs encountered.
jagggar
09-13-06, 07:01 PM Variant Party Ideas

Complete SeriesI Only Group. CWar, CDiv, CArc, CAdv, CPsi.

Psionics Only Group.

Monster Characters Only.
jagggar
09-13-06, 07:03 PM "Conclusions"

We'll either sumarize conclusions or link you to the beginning of conclusion disucssions here.

Post away!
turalisj
09-14-06, 07:50 PM I'l take the warrior slot. at lower levels, melee damage dealers tend to have a better chance of surviving at low level. They have better armor, hp, and damage output.

A few ideas for variants: a complete only group: one from CD, one from CA, one from CW, one from CAd, and one from CP. I refuse to acknowledge the existence of complete mage.

Another is a psionic only group- psy war, psion, lurk, and either ardent or divine mind.

One final idea is an all monster group.

After each one, we'll pit the groups against eachother.
jagggar
09-14-06, 10:00 PM Ah, Complete Mage shouldn't be too bad, just as long as everyone remembers it's Complete Arcane 2. I think they've got Complete Champion or something like that coming out. Not sure if it's supposed to be Divine or Warrior's sequal yet.

If we end up pitting groups against each other, it'd be, uh, different. We'd run all groups through the same gauntlet to wear them down (whoever gets through first would have extra buffing/resting time) and then they'd fight each other. On the other hand, there's nothing to stop people from stepping over to Orcy's and battling the groups.

Okay, We've got a Warrior type. Just three more to go. Oh, and incase it matters to anyone, Psion would be an acceptable class for the "Mage" party role.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jagggar 09-13-06, 06:52 PM	Maybe some of us do have delusions that we can create a "Perfectly Balanced D&D". But we have a right to have delusions, don't we? Those of us here at the "Balance" Brigade are interested in the concept of "balance" in D&D, both in materials released and in the application of house rules. For whatever reason, we've come to the conclusion that we can't judge everything based purely on the text in the books without examples in play and/or that arena battles often don't do justice to classes that shine in areas other than straight-up combat and/or that challenges created to test a lone character don't simulate a party adventuring together. The "Balance" Brigade will host a Dungeon of Random Encounters (DoRE) in Legends of the Guilds. First we will run a control group though the DoRE with as standard of an average party as possible. Once we have that done we can start testing variables in the form of party size, party make-up, and variant rules. Ideally, we will get enough members so that we can run a couple of different DoREs at the same time so we can get more variables evaluated.
jagggar 09-13-06, 06:56 PM	Topic Rundown The "Balance" Brigade Here we will decide upon what we want to test and how we want to test it. Once the parties have been run though the DoRE we will come back here to discuss the results. Dungeon of Random Encounters -To be created We will run our encounters here. DoRE - Character Records -To be created Character Sheets should be kept here. When updating a character (specifically, when leveling up) we will post new character sheets instead of editing new ones. This way we can use the same characters over again to create a larger average sample.
jagggar 09-13-06, 06:58 PM	Basic Control Group Rules Uses rules from 3.5 Core/SRD with Offical Errata (Complete Psionic and other WotC releases are not considered Offical Errata). Typical party of 4. The "typical party" roles should be filled with classes typical for the role. Warrior Healer Skillmoneky/Trapfinder Mage Standard Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) or Standard Point Buy. (Undecided at this time) "Advanced" Control Group Rules "Advanced" Control Groups are not actually more complex or anything, but will typically assume one or more things different from the Basic Control Group. Changes could be: Additional materials assumed (IE Complete Series). Larger or smaller party size. Non-standard party roles or atypical classes filling the standard roles (IE a cleric being built to take the warrior role). Non-standard point buy or array or rolling or very odd rolling. A houserule that effects all charcters and usually NPCs encountered.
jagggar 09-13-06, 07:01 PM	Variant Party Ideas Complete SeriesI Only Group. CWar, CDiv, CArc, CAdv, CPsi. Psionics Only Group. Monster Characters Only.
jagggar 09-13-06, 07:03 PM	"Conclusions" We'll either sumarize conclusions or link you to the beginning of conclusion disucssions here. Post away!
turalisj 09-14-06, 07:50 PM	I'l take the warrior slot. at lower levels, melee damage dealers tend to have a better chance of surviving at low level. They have better armor, hp, and damage output. A few ideas for variants: a complete only group: one from CD, one from CA, one from CW, one from CAd, and one from CP. I refuse to acknowledge the existence of complete mage. Another is a psionic only group- psy war, psion, lurk, and either ardent or divine mind. One final idea is an all monster group. After each one, we'll pit the groups against eachother.
jagggar 09-14-06, 10:00 PM	Ah, Complete Mage shouldn't be too bad, just as long as everyone remembers it's Complete Arcane 2. I think they've got Complete Champion or something like that coming out. Not sure if it's supposed to be Divine or Warrior's sequal yet. If we end up pitting groups against each other, it'd be, uh, different. We'd run all groups through the same gauntlet to wear them down (whoever gets through first would have extra buffing/resting time) and then they'd fight each other. On the other hand, there's nothing to stop people from stepping over to Orcy's and battling the groups. Okay, We've got a Warrior type. Just three more to go. Oh, and incase it matters to anyone, Psion would be an acceptable class for the "Mage" party role.