Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChaosEvoker 10-26-04, 09:40 PM	THIS FOUNDATION IS DEAD! (It will be ressurected later in a place NOT involving the WotC boards)
Aramar the Black 10-26-04, 10:56 PM	Sounds like fun. Mind if I join? I've been a DM for about a year and a half. If you say yes, I'll put the link in my sig lickity-spilt. And did I miss something? Eight members already, and a mention to futher posts, and yet I only see one beginning post.
Student Of The Mind 10-26-04, 11:09 PM	Hail to the Foundation of Dungeon Masters! What or Who is your favorite BBEG? I ask this to help new DM's with creating NPC's which will challenge their parties. The main conversation before we were moved was which alignment do you prefer to run in your campaigns, so I will post both a good and evil NPC. Evil campaign: Half silver dragon/stone giant...Cleric of Bahamut(sp?). This BBGG worked very well for me, and terrified the evil party that attempted to invade his mountain top fortress. This NPC can be a great quest for good character groups as well, seeking the dragon/giant for help in their time of need. Good campaign: Half fiend/mind flayer...Wizard. This BBEG was absolutely fabulous, turning the party members against each other and twisting their minds until they were ready to snap! I had posted earlier before we were moved that I used a characters mother to evoke emotion in the game, it was this NPC that kidnapped her and used her to drive the characters into a frenzy. So what were your best BBEGs? Good Gaming!
anglar 10-26-04, 11:36 PM	Hail and welcome to the beggning of a glorious new foundation: The Dungeon Master Foundation The purpose of this Guild is to provide a place for DMs to complain, share ideas, get ideas, and generally have a blast with our omisience Ah yes...the beauty of omnipotency. This is an oasis of sorts, an oasis in the desert of players. New DMs can find advise from wise and aged ones. The counsil will review applicants and make decisions. I will serve as a Overseer of the Counsil of sorts. I will make sure that the counsil is serving the DMF well. If any counsil member becomes disruptive, they shall be removed after careful consideration by the other counsil members and myself. Now for the requirement for applicants: Welcome. I thought you'd get over here after Sis pointed you in the right direction 1) Be a DM (No freaking duh!) 2) Upon application please post your general experience as a DM.The counsil will classify you as Newb, Begginer, Intermediate, Advanced, Experienced, True DM. Sorry, but titles are strictly forbidden by the guidlines of the Forum. 3)All members must have a link the our thread here. (How to is posted by Xen155 later in the thread) You can request this, not demand. Counsil requirements: 1) Must be Experienced or True DM Edit, must want to be one. Sorry, there can be no exclusion. Ok now for the rules: 1) Be respectful to EVERYONE. EVEN NEWBS, YOU were a newb once. Violation of this rule will label you as a jerk face and you will be kicked out. 2) No discussion of any novels. Well get yelled at by Big Sister if we do. 3) No RPing in message board. Note Bene: Anyone who has a suggested rule may present it to the counsil where it will be reviewed and either accepted of vetoed. The Dungeon Master Counsil: 1)Xen155 2)Cunning Linguist 3)ZebtheDM 4)Student Of The Mind 5)Mormorgan the Mad Members so far: 8 "But the play's the thing," says the tall Elf from beneath his hat. "Welcome to the Guild House. May your time here be plentiful and fruitful. Please, make yourselves at home. My wife, Silmarien Aldalome, along with the other overseers of this verse will be most pleased to see you. We are currently beginning a competition of the other guilds for fun's sake. I think Tyr has lead you here to aid us in judging the competition, if you would do us the honor. But I understand that it may take you some time to acclimate yourselves to the way things go around here. Don't be taken aback if you happen to see multiple versions of us. I have at least one "other self" lurking the Underdark. He can be identified by his words having this particular shade to them. My Beloved is known for her schisms, but they are easy enough to see and adjust to. In my travels of Faerun, I have encountered at least one of you," nods to Cunning Linguist. "Welcome to my parlor."
Dyne 10-27-04, 12:45 AM	Sorry, but titles are strictly forbidden by the guidlines of the Forum. Taken from the Foundation Guidelines: 3. If your foundation desires, please issue membership numbers or any other designation for the foundation if it helps instill a fraternal order. Thus, posts such as “Can I join?” and “Sure, here’s the listing of all of the members …” (usually considered Spam posts) will be allowed on this Foundation board. I believe titles fall under this. Afterall, the CoA has titles, and it is totally accepted by the Gamemasters and the Wiz_O's. Also, it is acceptable for a foundation to have a hierarchy, as long as that hierarchy is open and transparent, rather than acting behind-the-scenes. This is why the CoA hierarchy was broken up, they did things behind-the-scenes. At least, this is according to Sil. Counsil requirements: 1) Must be Experienced or True DM Edit, must want to be one. Sorry, there can be no exclusion. Taken from the Foundation Guidelines 1. As with the New Guidelines, foundation will not be exclusionary when it comes to membership. Wizards Community actively promotes inclusivity of members into all forums on the boards, except where there is age limit due to board content. Thus, there will be no “black-listing” of new members or “kick out” of an existing member. This is pretty much how most of the foundations run at this time, and thus there should be nothing new here. All foundations must accept anyone who wants to join. By "Council", I think you mean the leaders of the foundation. In this case, I think this would be acceptable. But, this Council can't operate behind-the-scenes, meaning they have to post all their deciding meetings on the thread. I don't mean to contradict you, Anglar, but this is how I interpret the rules. I suppose we could ask Sil about this. She'd be the one to ask. By-the-way, I'd like to join the Dungeon Masters Foundation. I have been playing D&D since Fall last year (Fall for the Northern Hemisphere, for those of you living in the South), and I've been DMing the whole time. At first, me and my dad started playing a small game. I was DM and each of us had 2 characters each. I soon started a group with my friends at school. It got down to only 3 people, including myself, so I ran a cleric along with them. We got to about 5th level before we had to quit on the campaign because of some stuff. I've been working on a campaign to start up another game, and we'll hopefully get a new game started soon. So far, I've got the campaign worked out to about 10th level. I know the rules very well (especially 3rd edition), better so even than some who are more experienced than me. In fact, I managed to pass the RPGA DM test using only my memory (since I didn't have my rulebooks at the time). I am often on the boards, and I pop in to offer my opinion and experience from time-to-time.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 01:27 AM	I had a feeling we were in the wrong spot, but I didn't even know there was a place like this on the boards (I mainly stick to FR and the DMs boards). Anyway, I'm hoping everyone else makes the jump with us and that I can find those pesky but useful forum rules. If I remember correctly, the last question asked in our previous location was something about what BBEGs us DMs use. Personally, I'm a big fan of wizards as villains, and my current baddy is a Necromancer (I just got the Libris Mortis). My last BBEG was a great wyrm red dragon, which I'm dying to do again, but I think Sammaster is good enough for right now.
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 01:36 AM	How are you using Sammaster in your current campaign, Mordmorgan?
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 01:44 AM	Mostly he's working behind the scenes (with the Great Rage of Dragons), but basically, he's already caused a flight of about a dozen red dragons (including Klauth himself) to attack Waterdeep. The PCs, with the help of the City Watch, the City Guard, the Order of Magists and Protectors, and a few other adventuring groups managed to fend off the attack. Thousands were killed, hundreds of buildings were destroyed (including much of Castle Waterdeep), and now the city faces the grim prospect of burying the dead and begining to rebuild. The Paladinson has declared all building materials City Property, and all reconstruction efforts will be the City's priority. The PCs have just returned from the outer planes (after being consumed by a blast of Klauth's firey breath, and convincing their respective deities they needed to return to the City of Splendors to defend and rebuild it) and have begun hunting Sammaster in ernest.
Tenzhi 10-27-04, 01:53 AM	Only a dozen reds? Where was Khelben Blackstaff? ;P
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 01:57 AM	Only a dozen reds? Where was Khelben Blackstaff? ;P I had him tied up with the Shades at that moment. I'm not really a fan of including the Realms' big guns except as very very background characters. I thought a dozen reds (all of which ancient or older) were a fine challenge, especially when Sammaster's magic obscured their approach from divinations as well as sight. Waterdeep didn't know it was being attacked until after Castle Waterdeep was in ruins (and most of the Guard and Watch were destroyed).
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 02:03 AM	Excellent...Damn that sounds like a lot of fun. Are your players sharp enough to find creative ways to help rebuild? Will they utilize Wall Of Stone and Antimate Objects?
anglar 10-27-04, 02:06 AM	I believe titles fall under this. Afterall, the CoA has titles, and it is totally accepted by the Gamemasters and the Wiz_O's. Also, it is acceptable for a foundation to have a hierarchy, as long as that hierarchy is open and transparent, rather than acting behind-the-scenes. This is why the CoA hierarchy was broken up, they did things behind-the-scenes. At least, this is according to Sil. Which is why, IMO, titles are a bad thing within a guild or foundation. Other than the thread keeper, no person has any more power within a thread than another. And, to my knowledge, the titles at CoA had nothing to do with perceived position. All foundations must accept anyone who wants to join. By "Council", I think you mean the leaders of the foundation. In this case, I think this would be acceptable. But, this Council can't operate behind-the-scenes, meaning they have to post all their deciding meetings on the thread. I don't mean to contradict you, Anglar, but this is how I interpret the rules. I suppose we could ask Sil about this. She'd be the one to ask. While it's perfectly reasonable for the thread keeper to seek the advice of others, the ultimate responsibilty falls upon the shoulders of the thread keeper. And cantradict me all you like. That's the truest menaing of the boards. You disagree with what I said, say so. Just because Sil's my wife doesn't mean I'm always right. I'm just and Elf. Even I can make a mistake. Though it is rare.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 02:09 AM	Yeah, they're pretty sharp. They're 11th level right now: An Ulutiun Druid with the leadership feat and a whole host of cohorts and followers; a Sun Elf Wizard who loves her evocation spells (and her spellfire, of course). Right now they're working on rebuilding their Headquarters which is (read: was) a warehouse in Waterdeep's Trades Ward. Once they've finished, they plan on donating about a week to help rebuild Waterdeep, and then (with the Paladinson's blessings) hunt down Sammaster. Of course, once they find him, I'll probably have him be a demilich, so that should be a lot of fun.
anglar 10-27-04, 02:10 AM	I had him tied up with the Shades at that moment. I'm not really a fan of including the Realms' big guns except as very very background characters. I thought a dozen reds (all of which ancient or older) were a fine challenge, especially when Sammaster's magic obscured their approach from divinations as well as sight. Waterdeep didn't know it was being attacked until after Castle Waterdeep was in ruins (and most of the Guard and Watch were destroyed). What about Lareal then? or the many other powerful friends of Waterdeep? Even Halaster may be inclined to help thwart such an attack.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 02:17 AM	Like I said, I'm not one for using the Big Guns. I don't usually explain where every notable FR character is at any given time, and my PCs don't usually ask. Laeral, as it happens, did participate in the battle, but she did a lot of the fighting in the Sea Ward and North Ward. As for Hallaster, he's a raving lunatic (at least in my game) and doesn't come out of Waterdeep unless he needs something for his experiments. It's likely that he'll surface during the reconstruction to steal some components for epic spells or animate some dragon bodies. And before anyone asks, Elminster is still in Hell in my game, and I doubt he's coming back any time soon. I'm trying to find a way to bring in Dorsein (sp?) the King of Ghouls from Libris Mortis, and I think I might have him follow Elminster back from hell. Just as a side note: In my campaigns, the PCs are the most important heroes, at least in their little corner of the world, and I don't like letting more powerful NPCs overshadow them. That's not to say that they're as recognizable as, say Elminster or Khelben, (especially the Sun Elf, who's keeping a low profile because of her Spellfire), but they will be the ones who solve the major conflicts.
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 02:36 AM	Just as a side note: In my campaigns, the PCs are the most important heroes, at least in their little corner of the world, and I don't like letting more powerful NPCs overshadow them. That's not to say that they're as recognizable as, say Elminster or Khelben, (especially the Sun Elf, who's keeping a low profile because of her Spellfire), but they will be the ones who solve the major conflicts. I follow this same idea. I use all NPC's as background, unless they are taking a direct role in the campaign. I suggest this approach be taken by all DM's, because it is easy for the fleshed out NPC's to overshadow the characters. Making them feel worthless if Elminster is around, or able to show at any moment and deal with the threat that they have worked so hard to stop. I learned this the hard way many years ago, when even my own NPC came to save the day and slightly screwed the entire campaign. So as a parting word of wisdom from an experienced DM to any new DM's that read this, be very careful how you inject your NPCs into your campaign. Good Gaming.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 02:49 AM	Anyone else care to share their current or favorite BBEG (or possibly seek advice for a future BBEG)?
anglar 10-27-04, 03:02 AM	Anyone else care to share their current or favorite BBEG (or possibly seek advice for a future BBEG)? Current BBEGs being used against me in our home brew world. Paulo Vendor: Mnk XX of great political influence and wealth. Can't just kill him, we have to find evidence against him first. The Voth's - The five children of Tiamat, one of each of the chromatic standards. All five are Ancient Wyrms. We've managed to kill Malavoth twice (he has one more life left) and have located the Black and White siblings. To make matters worse, an avatar of Tiamat currently resides within the empire as well. The Blues - The leading organized crime family of the empire. Though their tactics against us have lessened since we, inadvertantly, gave them a Sapphire dragon to be their new leader. The Elven Church - maybe their not Evil, but they want my wife dead. In our campaign, Corellon is dead and has been for about 25 years. The Church is keeping this hushed because of the fear of the fall out and no deity has taken over the Pantheon. My wife is of a new Church of Rh'iel, a Half-Elf deity whose mission is one of uniting all of Elf blood, even the Drow. Our wedding was quite the event. I leveled a city park. BBEG used against my players in my 3E game - Cyric and Tamm - Tamm had "discovered" a way of using Karsus' Avatar Spell using the blood of a Chosen as the chief material component. Not wanting to begin a huge war or anger any of the greater deities, he used multiple wish spells to "find" or "create" a Chosen of Skerrit (the centuar god). He missed capturing her (PC character) at her birth and searched for her ever since. Seeing the the campaign was going somewhere I really didn't want it to go. I had it so that it wa Cyric all along giving the Chosen powers, for he had captured Skerrit all those years back. Just when things looked worst, Cyric revealed his lie and left everyone flat. The look on his face when he realized that his character's entire life's story was completely a lie was beautiful.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 03:08 AM	Current BBEGs being used against me in our home brew world. Paulo Vendor: Mnk XX of great political influence and wealth. Can't just kill him, we have to find evidence against him first. I always loved the Political BBEG, especially when the PCs are the only ones (or some of the few) who know the politician is evil. Most of my campaigns get pretty convoluded, especially since I run most of them exclusively within cities. I'm thinking of trying to replace the Paladinson with an evil ruler (even if the general populace doesn't realize it), or maybe even a doppleganger (who could be Sammaster's puppet).
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 03:16 AM	DMs...Do you or Do you not make the funny voices that bring life to your NPCs? Does the beggar on the street have a harsh or rough voice as he asks for a few copper? Does the bar wench have an accent? Does the Queen speak with a smooth voice that flows across the ears of the characters? Do you do your best to represent this in your game...Or do you not really believe it will change the emotions in your game? I am not trying to subjugate anybody, I am just wondering how others run their games. Your answers are greatly appreciated. Good Gaming.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 03:26 AM	Personally, I don't "voice" my NPCs. I do give them certain speach patterns that make them distinctive, but I don't use accents. I hate to admit it, but this is mostly becuase I can't keep track of who sounds like what. I know it's a horrible excuse, but I've got so much plot to worry about I just can't keep the voices straight :weep:
anglar 10-27-04, 03:28 AM	I always loved the Political BBEG, especially when the PCs are the only ones (or some of the few) who know the politician is evil. Most of my campaigns get pretty convoluded, especially since I run most of them exclusively within cities. I'm thinking of trying to replace the Paladinson with an evil ruler (even if the general populace doesn't realize it), or maybe even a doppleganger (who could be Sammaster's puppet). That's the thing with Ang. Now he's the Darth Vader, minus the evil, of the empire and has to start with the political intrigue instead of just, there's the opponent, kill him. I wouldn't just replace the Paladinson, but the three to five people nearest him as well. It will help if you have more buffers with the checks. SotM - I try my best to use a voice for each NPC of any import. Works well enough so far. I think it helps with the atmosphere.
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 03:42 AM	Personally, I don't "voice" my NPCs. I do give them certain speach patterns that make them distinctive, but I don't use accents. I hate to admit it, but this is mostly becuase I can't keep track of who sounds like what. I know it's a horrible excuse, but I've got so much plot to worry about I just can't keep the voices straight :weep: I can agree with that...Many times the voices sound the same and it subtracts the attention away from the plots.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 03:46 AM	I can agree with that...Many times the voices sound the same and it subtracts the attention away from the plots. Every NPC I do comes out sounding like a mix of Russian and German, so I gave up. The only time it ever worked was in a Ravenloft game set in Barovia (kind of a eastern european area).
Tenzhi 10-27-04, 03:50 AM	Very few of my NPCs get a particular "voice" though they do have unique speech patterns and mannerisms - this is especially true of certain races. Dwarves, I'm afraid, always get an accent that's off-scottish and involves saying "yar" occasionally; elves always precisely enunciate, speak from the top of the throat, and somehow sound partially british.
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 04:11 AM	Very few of my NPCs get a particular "voice" though they do have unique speech patterns and mannerisms - this is especially true of certain races. Dwarves, I'm afraid, always get an accent that's off-scottish and involves saying "yar" occasionally; elves always precisely enunciate, speak from the top of the throat, and somehow sound partially british. Every NPC I do comes out sounding like a mix of Russian and German, so I gave up. The only time it ever worked was in a Ravenloft game set in Barovia (kind of a eastern european area). LoL...I hear you both, no pun intended. My dwarves tend to sound like off-scottish pirates who are always angry, and can never say anything nice about anybody but dwarves. I can usually give different races a bit of an accent, but they tend to sound the same in the long run. Elves always pronounce everything perfectly, orcs always sound like they've just got their throat cut and the smaller races sound mostly like young children...That is if I can actually pull it off. :D
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 04:18 AM	Speaking of "smaller races", how often do you use gnomes or halflings in your games? I rarely if ever use anything other than humans, elves, and half-elves as NPCs. The only time I ever use gnomes is for Alchemist NPCs, and I don't think I've used a halfling in a few years. I don't know why, but I just never think to make little NPCs.
Tenzhi 10-27-04, 04:25 AM	Speaking of "smaller races", how often do you use gnomes or halflings in your games? As NPCs? Rarely, though in my most recent homebrew campaign two variations of halfling are the main race of the world and there are no elves or humans. Normally I use Elves and Dwarves as NPCs the most (as far as regular PHB races go). As a PC, however, my favourite (PHB) races are Gnome, Dwarf, and Halfling.
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 04:59 AM	As NPC's I use the "smaller races" more rarely then the rest, though as a player I absolutely love playing dwarves and gnomes. The gnome artificer is one of my many favorite PrC...I look forward to running a game on the islands of Lantan.
ChaosEvoker 10-27-04, 07:08 AM	New member announcements: Aramar the Black Dyne
ChaosEvoker 10-27-04, 11:33 AM	OKAY FINALLY I GET SOME TIME!!! Alright, I liek to use off races. It keeps players on their toes. Suddenly it looks like that little child was a halfling theif who just cut and made off with your purse of 500 GPs. :D And now for my first question to pose to the Foundation: How hard do you find it to create entirely new and unique worlds or nations. I personally jsut began trying to create one from scratch and its been awesome so far. It's a city that travels through the planes. It always lands in a conveient unoccupied space. This ability to massive planar travel and not land on something else is done by a massive spell by the counsil that runs the city. I can post the stats of each member if you want. But the counsil consists of epic level NPCs that are: A Death Sladd: Lv 25 Sorceror Drow: (Mother Do'Urden [they have returned!]) Lv 28 Cleric of Shar Four Primal Elementals (one of each element) that can magically keep their size at Medium Mind Flayer: Lv 25 Wilder (Expanded Psionics Handbook) Beholder: Lv 10 Beholder Mage (Monsters of Faerun) And the head of the counsil: Lord Batatazorathan A Tarterian Dragon (Draconomicon) 4th Lv Dragon Ascendant So there is one of my creations, how hard do you find it to make really good detailed societies and such from scratch? can you offer any examples?
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 12:12 PM	Worlds and civilizations, huh? I've done a few in my time, but I prefer the smaller scale of cities (you get more detail that way). For example, in my current game, I've decided to throw out just about everything I have on Waterdeep (except for the basics in the FRCS) and start over. Right now, I've got 80 smaller districts within the 8 Wards of Waterdeep (7 really, but I include Skullport). My favorite district is called Spellward and is populated almost entirely by wizards (with a few sorcerers and bards thrown in for good measure). I've got about a dozen magical shops, all with thier own specialties and staff. There's a few bars filled with minor magical wonder (including a portal that transports up to four people to a small demiplane where mage duels are held and monitored via scrying by bar patrons). I even set up a prison on a small island just beyond the Dock Wall and the Floating City (a slew of boats tied together and a few floating platforms so you could walk between vessels), that houses all of Waterdeep's nastiest crooks. As far as creating all that stuff, I find it fairly easy, and a lot more fun than creating a whole new world.
ZebtheDM 10-27-04, 12:30 PM	I agree world creation is easy, as long as you remain consistant so your players dont feel like they have no control.(they dont but why let them know that :D ) As to using the small races as NPC's i knid of have to in my main campaign, the core party is a dwarf, a gnome and a halfling... they have taken to calling themselves the Legion of Little. Most recent BBEG is a acient red they have no hope of beating, they just need to recover a dwarven artifact from it's hoard. To help repel the giant invasion into the Dwarf PC family holding. Former BBEGs have included a Barb and his hord w/ a love of frost and cold items, Bugbear Clreic, and a couple of necromancers, man they hate thoses necromancers-in the words of my PCs "I'll tell you why they are bad, you kill the gobilins that are causing problems, go away and the necro turns um into undead and then you have to kill them all over again." Glad to se the foundation has increased is size welcome all.
Xen155 10-27-04, 01:11 PM	Hail to the Foundation Of Dungeon Masters! Hmmmmmm.. im not sure what to think about the new home, but i think i could learn to like it. on the subject of world building....... meh, i don't do it very often. To ChaosEvoker: has Arbiter or Cunning linguist gotten in contact with you? ps: i knew something like this would happen! I'm thinking you should post those council guys you mentioned ChaosEvoker... you know, just incase someone else might want to use them... or something.
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 04:29 PM	Hail to the Foundation of Dungeon Masters! In my experience creating worlds, cities, civilizations, societies and religions is easier than running the game itself. It can be compared to solving an algebriac equation...Plugging in each factor to iron out the final product. Evoker I like how you have the current variables, and what you have there so far looks really good. A nasty city with a very wicked group of leaders, damn I wouldnt wanna skip out on my taxes. :D I would go into great detail about the city itself, what style of buildings and architecture are in the city? Is this style abundant, or does it only exist in small pockets that are scattered around the city? Do they use Continual Flame to light the streets, or is oil used? This is somewhat important because oil has a chance (small chance) of helping start fires in the city. Also what kinda guilds are involved in the city? What's the majority of the pedestrians walking down the street? Are the characters gonna see minotaurs strutting through the marketplace, or are there gonna be more common races making their way through the bartering centers? One more thought before I stop my rambling...What is the standard transportation in the city? Horse and carriage? Pony and buggy? More exotic? Griffons? Hippogriffs? Or even more exotic...Are there flying contraptions in the air, waltzing through the skies above your city? Or is teleportation more common...With permenant circles of teleportation whisking civilians to the different sectors of the city in the blink of an eye? Ok Ok I'll stop now...I've allowed too much leak out of my ears, napkins please! Can I get a sponge!? :D I hope you can use my insanity, Evoker. Good Gaming!
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 08:06 PM	Hail to the Foundation of Game Masters! I post once again to ask you all a question...During your games, do you enjoy employing Evil NPC's against your party or do you enjoy employing Good NPC's against your party? This is to find opinions, and to help new DM's realize that some of the most memorable NPC's are good creatures that might have a bit of a selfish streak. So I ask you...Good NPC's or Evil NPC's as the main "villian" in your campaign? Good Gaming.
Gellion 10-27-04, 08:53 PM	Cool foundation.:) Anyways, my game is going fairly well. Granted three my players do not know 90& of the rules, but I manage to handle them. Not to mention one PC making up annoying rules and in my absentmindedess, I implement them. Usually most villains they fight get dismantled ine a round or two by the party Barbarain. My current problem is sometimes having fights that they know they should not fight(finding this out by the not so subtle hints I drop that this opponent is best ignored for now). When they go after them anyway they complain when they cant hit it, and I have to let them win thr battle because then one complains that I should not have fights like that, despite the fact that he is the one who told me too. They are also prone to wondering off topic, and doing things like making ninja outfits out of their shirts. "I dont know, I dont look at my stats." Ahhh, my crazy group.
Xen155 10-27-04, 09:16 PM	I often use the misguided good NPC. The guy who thinks "if i release the red dragon to destroy the orcs i will be named a hero!"
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 09:18 PM	Cool foundation.:) Anyways, my game is going fairly well. Granted three my players do not know 90& of the rules, but I manage to handle them. Not to mention one PC making up annoying rules and in my absentmindedess, I implement them. Usually most villains they fight get dismantled ine a round or two by the party Barbarain. Not knowing the rules isnt a bad thing, a bit annoying but it's okay. Tell the one PC to zip his mouth or he can get behind the screen to DM some sessions. To counter the barbarian use some Enchantment spells, like calm emotions...Web works great as well, it will stop the barbarian in his tracks :D My current problem is sometimes having fights that they know they should not fight(finding this out by the not so subtle hints I drop that this opponent is best ignored for now). When they go after them anyway they complain when they cant hit it, and I have to let them win thr battle because then one complains that I should not have fights like that, despite the fact that he is the one who told me too. You should never "let them win the battle"...If they do not understand that even the mightiest warriors retreated, then they should lose characters because of their stupidity. Do not show weakness to your players, because if you do they will take advantage of the signs that you dont want to kill off their characters. Remember...It's not the DM that kills characters, it's the stupidity of the players.(Cant remember where I read that, but thanks to whoever it was) They are also prone to wondering off topic, and doing things like making ninja outfits out of their shirts. If they are disruptive on a constant basis, then I would give the player a black mark...Meaning you can make them reroll a good roll they've made. It will make them more serious about the game. How old are your players? It sounds like childish immaturity flows like a river during your sessions. Anyways, good luck and hopefully my rambling didnt offend you. :D Good Gaming.
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 09:23 PM	I often use the misguided good NPC. The guy who thinks "if i release the red dragon to destroy the orcs i will be named a hero!" :rofl: That's great...I havent laughed that hard in a long time.
Gellion 10-27-04, 09:36 PM	Not knowing the rules isnt a bad thing, a bit annoying but it's okay. Tell the one PC to zip his mouth or he can get behind the screen to DM some sessions. To counter the barbarian use some Enchantment spells, like calm emotions...Web works great as well, it will stop the barbarian in his tracks :D You should never "let them win the battle"...If they do not understand that even the mightiest warriors retreated, then they should lose characters because of their stupidity. Do not show weakness to your players, because if you do they will take advantage of the signs that you dont want to kill off their characters. Remember...It's not the DM that kills characters, it's the stupidity of the players.(Cant remember where I read that, but thanks to whoever it was) If they are disruptive on a constant basis, then I would give the player a black mark...Meaning you can make them reroll a good roll they've made. It will make them more serious about the game. How old are your players? It sounds like childish immaturity flows like a river during your sessions. Anyways, good luck and hopefully my rambling didnt offend you. :D Good Gaming. Main problem is,(about the whole battle thing). Is that said player says I should not run my game that way. And will threaten to quit, now due to certain reasons, this player must remain in the group. He also has insane saves and seems to always roll nat 20 when he needs them. And if he rolls high(but not a 20) and he fails he will make sarcastic remarks sometimes. I just have to deal with this guy, he is betterat RPing than the rest of them though. The black mark idea is interesting, but then they would complain that I am taking the game too seriously. I find the best way to challenge them is have enemies with lots of HP and that hit hard, as they almost always make all their saves.
ChaosEvoker 10-27-04, 10:14 PM	Gellion were you wanting to join? Anyway ok here are some details (I ahven't finished making the counsil members stats, when I do I'll post 'em) Ok The City is Comprised of three levels: 1) Surface Level 2) Sewers 3) Underdark Level Details: 1) Surface Level In the center of the city is a statue that changes it appearance every hour or so. Might be a dragon one hour and a human warrior the next...who knows? <_< >_> If your looking to state your adventures hunger on the surface the restaurants here are unique there are two: At Wizard's Food on the Go you can get food and fast. It's kidn of liek the McDonalds of the D&D world. Except way more healthy, and everythign isn't deep fried. Just conjured. By the Wizards that run it. (All about 12-20th lv) Second there is the Chaos RestuarantThe best way I can describe this is to label it as the Chineese food of the Planes. Odd, exotic, and tasty as all get out, and almost everyone likes it! It's run by Sladdi. If your hunger is for passion the Harem of all Tastes can provide you with any race, gender, or color. (And there is color abound!) Then there's your typical magic item shop (Human Wizard), blacksmith (Githyanki), Bowyer (Elven), Tavern (Tavern Master: an Adult Shadow Dragon. Yes for those of you who have played the NWN series I borrowed this idea. SO WHAT? IT WAS COOL!) an Inn (Run by a series of golems created by this place's wizards) There is a funeral directors service run by the necromancers. There is a place called the Universal House. Where any can travel back to his home plane form this city. Also there is a Universla Temple which when you nter will send you to a temple of the deity of your choice. There is also a mysetious little shop that sells rare magical components run by a mysterious man whos face is hidden. 2) Sewers Um...self explainitory, nothing of much note down here 3) Underdark Here House Do'Urden is seekign to rebuild itself. They got a hold of a prisim dragon and once they establish full control over it its gonna get messy. In the meantime, they are allied with the Beholders, Mind Flayers, and Sladd here. Odd allies for drow, but Do'Urden is desperate. The Mind Flayers run a psionic items shop. The Beholders keep to themselves. The Drow run a massive magic items shop. There are drider nests that the Drow control. There is a fighting pit that the Drow hold fights in. Duels and such. The Beholders send out a few interesting items to be sold by Drow merchants, all of which are very unique or cursed. From this level of the city, one can enter the lair of the cousil. Where they meet ot hear petitions and requests and where Lord Baratazorathan lives. and there is a giant star-liek figure with lots of detailed runic symbols on the floor of the cousil chambers (the counsil sits on a raised platform area) It looks oddly like a summoning circle......... Walking aroudn the city you cna expect to find any extra planar creature. Pick your favorite extra planar creature, there's probably at least a couple. As far as Primers go you'll probably only see some of your typical humanoids (pretty much Elves and Humans) and all of them will be Wizards/Sorcerors. Pretty much your typical Underdark races will be found on level three. Minus the undead. As far as travel in the city. Well it basically walking, but the city is pretty compact. Very efficiently built. Other means aren't nessecary or for that matter, more convienent really. There aren't really any guilds other than the buisinesses. The Wizards runnign magic item shops and food. The sladd runnning their restaurant. The only real source of power is the counsil and the counsil sees that it STAYS that way. Architureture is very varied, this is kind of a palce where anyone can get a taste of the planes. A bit of architecture form everywhere, but teh underdark level is basically drow architecture. Sinister spires and manisions. So there's my city tell me what you think CHAOS EVOKER OUT
Gellion 10-27-04, 10:18 PM	Sure, why not I will join. :)
ChaosEvoker 10-27-04, 10:21 PM	New member Annoncement: Gellion
Xen155 10-27-04, 10:22 PM	Hail To the Foundation Of Dungeon Masters! well, alot of work went into that. i can see why a young drow wizard would aspire to control a place like that........ what! *looks around* i... mean.... sounds like a cool place. Oh and Evoker, you need to get ahold of anglar and talk to him about the Inter-Foundation War.
anglar 10-27-04, 10:30 PM	Hail To the Foundation Of Dungeon Masters! well, alot of work went into that. i can see why a young drow wizard would aspire to control a place like that........ what! *looks around* i... mean.... sounds like a cool place. Oh and Evoker, you need to get ahold of anglar and talk to him about the Inter-Foundation War. Not me, my wife, Silmarien. I am glad to see you guys taking such an interest in what we're doing here. I'm just another poster here. Don't let the fact that a DM and I have kids, Alcare and Rilya, make you wary of challenging me. I bleed just like the rest of you will.
ChaosEvoker 10-27-04, 10:31 PM	Well if I KNEW about the Inter-Foundation War I would. What is it?? *gets that sinking feeling that he is about to feel REALLY stupid*
Xen155 10-27-04, 10:35 PM	Well if I KNEW about the Inter-Foundation War I would. What is it?? *gets that sinking feeling that he is about to feel REALLY stupid* Yep. I would advise read the INTER-FOUNDATION COMPETION thread, that MIGHT clear a few things up. (And if i knew how to get aim i Friggen would!) And i guess you dont need to talk to anglar....... *bleeds like the rest of us ehhh*
ChaosEvoker 10-27-04, 10:44 PM	www.aim.com (yeah, its that easy) Hmm yound drow wizard huh? sounds oddly familiar to your character in my campaign.....maybe that prisim dragon will be getting otu a little earlier than expected.... :mymy:
Xen155 10-27-04, 10:47 PM	www.aim.com (yeah, its that easy) Hmm yound drow wizard huh? sounds oddly familiar to your character in my campaign.....maybe that prisim dragon will be getting otu a little earlier than expected.... :mymy: Bring it on! GRRRRRRRRRR
ChaosEvoker 10-27-04, 10:50 PM	yeah so ANYWAY. looking forward to furture questions. Any suggestions for creating a good campaign that involves more than your basic dungeon crawl. I'm getting a godo one going, but it gets hard at times to keep it up. Any suggestions from those who may be wiser and/or more experienced than me in this respect?
Student Of The Mind 10-27-04, 11:31 PM	A bit more information is needed Evoker...I'm not entirely sure what the game consists of, and if you have players that read this thread you probably dont want to spout out information.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-27-04, 11:31 PM	Any suggestions from those who may be wiser and/or more experienced than me in this respect? Glad you asked :D I hardly ever run dungeon crawls, mostly because my PCs think too far outside the box to make them any fun. The real trick to doing what I call "free-form" (or non-dungeon crawl) adventures is to treat them just like a dungeon. The plot can be broken down into a flow chart format that is remarkably like a series of dungeon rooms. I think Dragon Magazine had an article on this, but I can't remember which one it was in.
Xen155 10-27-04, 11:56 PM	A bit more information is needed Evoker...I'm not entirely sure what the game consists of, and if you have players that read this thread you probably dont want to spout out information. Dont fear that, im a fellow DM too and am beyond meta-gaming :D
Student Of The Mind 10-28-04, 01:14 AM	Dont fear that, im a fellow DM too and am beyond meta-gaming :D Many DM's are beyond metagaming, but players usually cannot help but use the information found in books or on the web. It takes either a very good player, or a playing DM to not metagame. If Evoker wants to spill info on this thread, then I'll gladly toss my couple of copper into his cast iron pot of creation.
Tenzhi 10-28-04, 01:25 AM	The way I run non-dungeon-crawl adventures, or actual storylines as it were, is simple: I figure out what's going on in general, who the key NPCs/organizations are who might get involved, plop the players into the world, and improvise. I like this method because the adventures seem more exciting not the least of which because *I* don't even know what's going to happen next. Of course, if you have players who, rather than simply getting into the game, sit back and analyze the plot with a microscope, then this method may not work very well as a few holes may pop up here and there.
Student Of The Mind 10-28-04, 04:37 AM	Ahhh...Yes I guess I can comment without giving anything away. How I usually run non-dungeon crawl campaigns is pretty simple. I start with concocting a final goal for each character, a goal that can be fullfilled at say level 20...Or the level in which I believe the campaign will be over. I sit down with the player and discuss the short description of the plan I have for the character, not giving away much detail but enough to let the player know what might possibly be in store for the character. I will give several examples that might be able to better detail my rambling. Each sample is my direct conversation with a player. i.e. Malilk Stavros (Fighter): The birth of your character was a mystery, his youth was spent near the hills surrounding the great forest (Insert name of area which the game takes place, or history is set). The first fifteen years of your characters life were spent in the instruction of a wise old warrior (Insert catchy name) that raised Malilk until his untimely death sometime around the characters sixteenth birthday. Upon the right hand of the character is a tattoo which covers the tops of his fingers and portions of the back of his hand. This strange artwork has been with the character all his life, and is definitely arcane but unreadable even through magic. At this point I let the player create the rest of the characters background, without telling him/her what I have planned for the final goal of the character. This of course is the generic "Lost King" or "Lost Boy King" scenerio which has the character end up as a king of some far off kingdom in turmoil Darnan Mortus (Cleric): The parents of your character did a great job raising the young boy, and instilled in him a deal of integrity that surpasses many palladins to this day. When he was just a young man, roughly 12 years of age, he was introduced to the church of (Insert diety of a LG alignment) and upon the day which he was brought into the church a momentous event happened. As his hand was placed upon the book of (Insert diety of LG alignment) a strange enlightening sensation enveloped him, causing the hair to stand upon his neck. Since that day he has been involved in the church and his faith is intense. At this point I again drop the conversation, and allow the player to develop the characters background as they see fit. This scenerio is most likely used to create a despised "Chosen Of Whatever God The DM Wishes"...Or if a higher powered campaign is employed, a demigod. This is usually my standard way of doing things, it gives the players something to build on without them having to ponder what happened to their character while he was 6 years old. It also gives me a stepping stone to deliver a better plot, with subplots and side quests which will raise the characters to the desired level. I hope this is what you were looking for, cause if not my rambling was just to hear my own ponderous bliss. It's also very late, and I could just be pulling things out of my :censored:. Hope it helps, Evoker. Good gaming!
Tenzhi 10-28-04, 04:48 AM	I generally wouldn't venture to so heavily dictate my PCs' fates and backgrounds, especially knowing that in the shoes of the PC I, myself, would likely react to such heavy-handedness by railing against fate at every turn.
Student Of The Mind 10-28-04, 05:11 AM	I generally wouldn't venture to so heavily dictate my PCs' fates and backgrounds, especially knowing that in the shoes of the PC I, myself, would likely react to such heavy-handedness by railing against fate at every turn. I do not script the story of the characters, but set a hidden goal that I have in mind for the end of the campaign. Most of the time it gives me subplots to add into the game, but at the same time run the normal campaign that I've set out for all of the characters...Like stop the thieves guild from assassinating the king, and find out that there is a 19th level vampire drow rogue who is setting all of the plans into motion. Most of the time I set the subplots and final goals of the characters, then wing it until certain events happen. 3/4 of the time it works out the way I want it to, without the characters getting any wiser about their "destiny"...My examples in the before written post is more like a short story that allows the players to write the rest of the novel on their own...With a little help from their friendly neighborhood DM :D
ChaosEvoker 10-28-04, 10:54 AM	Hmm I shoudl have phrased my question better. I was askgn mroe laong the lines of ways to get the player's XP and such without constant dungeon crawling, but I don't want them to get desperate for XP and go kill random people to sate their XP hungers. I'm lookign for suggestions there. Also any interesting encounter ideas that range beyond your typical "Monster in room, kill it." encounter. I mean I ahve done those, but sometimes my creativity dies, so you know its always good to get ideas from others. Thanks.
Xen155 10-28-04, 11:34 AM	Hey, i have the Revised Link to the DMF. [*thread=329068]Member of The Dungeon Masters Foundation[/thread] Make sure To get rid of the * before thread.
Xen155 10-28-04, 12:59 PM	I was thinking about creating a thread where we could post item ideas like artifacts and the such. Just looking for some feedback on the idea. If you have any suggestions about it or other threads just speak up. PS: I'll call the Item thread: The DMF Artifact Corner. OK all set, up Here is a Link The DMF Artifact Corner If you have any item ideas post them there.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-28-04, 04:44 PM	Hmm I shoudl have phrased my question better. I was askgn mroe laong the lines of ways to get the player's XP and such without constant dungeon crawling, but I don't want them to get desperate for XP and go kill random people to sate their XP hungers. I'm lookign for suggestions there. Also any interesting encounter ideas that range beyond your typical "Monster in room, kill it." encounter. I mean I ahve done those, but sometimes my creativity dies, so you know its always good to get ideas from others. Thanks. Please don't tell me you give XP for attacking peasants or random city folk. If you're refering to Random Encounters, I think they're an important part of any ballanced adventuring breakfast. If the PCs feel that they aren't getting enough XP, give them an encounter that's 1 to 2 levels above thier CR. In my games, 80% of all Encounter Levels (EL) are equal to party level, 10% are 1d3 levels lower, and 10% are 1d3 levels higher. I find that this gives a more realistic feeling (i.e. not everything the PCs meet is an even match to their abilities). You should also consider using things like Story Awards (giving XP for completing certain goals), or XP for roleplaying. I hope this was the sort of advice you were looking for.
ChaosEvoker 10-28-04, 11:19 PM	no not for random commoners, but they start plotting massive plots to killimportant higer lv people for XP. It gets nasty. But I'm reffering to encounters that keeps the palyers on their toes, encounters that they have to think and be clever in order to win.
anglar 10-28-04, 11:47 PM	Please don't tell me you give XP for attacking peasants or random city folk. If you're refering to Random Encounters, I think they're an important part of any ballanced adventuring breakfast. If the PCs feel that they aren't getting enough XP, give them an encounter that's 1 to 2 levels above thier CR. In my games, 80% of all Encounter Levels (EL) are equal to party level, 10% are 1d3 levels lower, and 10% are 1d3 levels higher. I find that this gives a more realistic feeling (i.e. not everything the PCs meet is an even match to their abilities). You should also consider using things like Story Awards (giving XP for completing certain goals), or XP for roleplaying. I hope this was the sort of advice you were looking for. I have a cousin who constantly complains about D&D because "it's only about killing the next monster". Doesn't stop him from playing. Even though he's been playing longer than I have, he still doesn't understand that giving Story XP or RP XP is too subjective. What's a good RP is determined by the DM. That, and he's the biggest Oompa loompa I've ever seen. Oompa Loompa - A person who munchkinizes the playing field but hides behind the shield of "ROLEplaying." The story has to be about their character. They want elaborate backgrounds and demand you include details of it in every game. Which brings me to this question. What the biggest pain in the donkey that you've had to deal with as a DM? Mine - Guess which player - "I want to run a Centaur that's been raised by Halflings. I want her to believe she's a Halfling. I want the bonus for both races because a lot of the Centaur bonuses are hereditary while the Halfling ones are upbringing based. The human part looks like Chyna before the jaw operation, only uglier and with bigger boobs and a much more annoying voice. Iknow I've run a version of this chracter in about 30 games, but I just love it so much." I've seen 3 Centaur versions, and heard about other versions in Star Wars, Feng Shui, and Buffy. Finally, I gave him his closure and banned any and all pre-gen personalities from my table.
Student Of The Mind 10-28-04, 11:49 PM	Have them solve murders...Or allow them to find an old haunted manor that is inhabited by a ghost. They get XP if they help but the ghost to rest, but if they **** the ghost off it will turn on them because of its chaotic emotionally charged nature...Just a thought that might help. Good Gaming.
Xen155 10-28-04, 11:53 PM	Anglar, let me tell you, i have one freind who has run the same NE Elf Rouge/Assasin in every campsign i've made. And it is one of the most annoying things ever, so i think i feel at least a small mote of your pain there!
ChaosEvoker 10-29-04, 07:19 AM	I've played with someone (and Xen you know who I'm talkign about) that plays an evil character regardless of alignment. He had a CG Barbarian that tried to kill the party for NO REASON! He acts evil regardless of what he wrote on the paper. Fortunately I don't play with him anymore.
Xen155 10-29-04, 11:46 AM	Sample from player ChaosEvoker brought up: Dm to Player "Ok, the child of the two people you killed for no reason kicks you in the shin doing no damage." Player "I kill the kid and string his body up in the middle of town." Dm "But your Lawful Good!" Player "SO?"
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-29-04, 03:25 PM	Two annoying players stand out: The first was the world's biggest rules lawyer who played an elven druid in 2e (which was illegal, but apparently, he only cares if other people break the rules). The second was that special kind of :censored: that just had to play the uber monster (his favorite was a werewolf vampire wizard) or he'd throw a fit. I always had him roll up two characters so he could keep playing after the townsfolk burned his werewolf vampire wizard at the stake.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-29-04, 05:47 PM	Well, this thread seems to be loosing a little momentum, so let's give this a shot: I'm working on a new adventure (probably going to start it next week) set in Waterdeep. Arcane Spellcasters are disappearing all over the city and divinations haven't been able to locate them. The PCs are contacted by an old friend of thiers to help find one of his apprentices. He's unable to help because he's working on a very complex spell, but he really wants his apprentice returned safely. So basically, the PCs try to track down these missing arcanists, leading them through the sewers and a few other areas. I'm thinking of having the kidnappings be part of a cult's (probably Shar or Velsharoon) sacrifices to summon and advanced (42 HD) Nightwalker, but I haven't settled on it yet. I was also thinking of having the disappearances be Sammaster's doing, but I can't think of what he'd want wizards for. Any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated.
Student Of The Mind 10-29-04, 06:42 PM	Well, this thread seems to be loosing a little momentum, so let's give this a shot: I think it stalls because of the majority of those posting are DM's. It's hard to continue posting on a constant basis with all of the work that is put in by DM's, so the thread may seem stagnet at times but wicked minds lurk in the halls of the Foundation. :D I'm working on a new adventure (probably going to start it next week) set in Waterdeep. Arcane Spellcasters are disappearing all over the city and divinations haven't been able to locate them. The PCs are contacted by an old friend of thiers to help find one of his apprentices. He's unable to help because he's working on a very complex spell, but he really wants his apprentice returned safely. So basically, the PCs try to track down these missing arcanists, leading them through the sewers and a few other areas. I'm thinking of having the kidnappings be part of a cult's (probably Shar or Velsharoon) sacrifices to summon and advanced (42 HD) Nightwalker, but I haven't settled on it yet. Sounds pretty kewl so far...I might suggest that instead of sacrificing them to summon a single monster, you have a cleric of Velsharoon be kidnapping arcane spellcasters and begin turning them into vampires. It will give the characters many more enemies to counter, and towards the end some of the vamps can get away forcing the campaign to continue as the players must chase the undead down. Also, if you would like to follow up with this game...A few of the wizard/sorcerer vampires could begin making a name for themselves in Skullport, this will let you further the enemies of the characters in Waterdeep. You can also bring in a NPC party to get in the way of the characters, maybe members of the church of Kelemvor...The two groups shouldnt work together, and if you get creative you could have a triangle of violence. Just a few thoughts, hope they help. Good Gaming
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-29-04, 07:06 PM	Well, the PCs are only 11th level, and I'm not really interested in having them take on the single (but way too powerful) 42HD Nightwalker. It's more of an incentive to attack the summoning cult than anything else. Which reminds me: I forgot something. The Nightwalker will kill 13 spellcasters each night for 13 nights, after which it is free to cause chaos and destruction where ever it wants. The PCs will find out that the Nightwalker is controlled by the Cult's leader and the leader holds the key to holding the Nightwalker on the Material Plane. As a side note, our previous campaign kinda did the vampire thing to death (ack! bad pun!!). I think it stalls because of the majority of those posting are DM's. It's hard to continue posting on a constant basis with all of the work that is put in by DM's, so the thread may seem stagnet at times I know, I work a lot on my game too, but we're on a brake right now (until next week) and all this free time is making me :tantrum: INSANE!!!!! :twitch:
Student Of The Mind 10-29-04, 07:56 PM	Well, the PCs are only 11th level, and I'm not really interested in having them take on the single (but way too powerful) 42HD Nightwalker. It's more of an incentive to attack the summoning cult than anything else. Great incentive... Which reminds me: I forgot something. The Nightwalker will kill 13 spellcasters each night for 13 nights, after which it is free to cause chaos and destruction where ever it wants. Ummm...That's 169 spellcasters. You might wanna dwarf those numbers a bit. The PCs will find out that the Nightwalker is controlled by the Cult's leader and the leader holds the key to holding the Nightwalker on the Material Plane. Oh Oh Oh...I want that key!! As a side note, our previous campaign kinda did the vampire thing to death (ack! bad pun!!). Ahhh didnt know about the previous campaign, so scratch the vampire thing. Would liches work better? :D I know, I work a lot on my game too, but we're on a brake right now (until next week) and all this free time is making me :tantrum: INSANE!!!!! :twitch: The majority of other forums and threads are frequented by players, who only need to think about what kewl stuff their characters are gonna do in the next couple of levels. The DM's need to think of all the sick things they are going to do to all the characters in the next couple of levels. If I can help, or if I have already helps please let me know... Good gaming.
ChaosEvoker 10-29-04, 10:49 PM	Hail to the DMF! Well I guess it depends, if there's a spellcaster in the group you could have him be hunted (good random encounter). If not, well just go with what you've got. I woudl suggest making the cult Shar. Then you get to mess with Shadow Weave. This could make it a bit more interesting. of course I'm a little partial as my second to last character before I crossed the screen was a 35th lv Shadow Weaving Demilich with a taste for world-conquering...good times. But it's up to you. Hope I helped. As to suggestions for momentum building: RECRUIT!! We seriously need more members. Pull as many as you can. Tell all your DM friends about it. You might want to check out our new magic items thread to post your cool item inventions, that'd be a great pool of information we could all dip into to add some spicy items to campaigns, check it out. I've already posted a favorite of my creations: The Bow of the Arcane Archer CHAOS EVOKER OUT
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-29-04, 10:55 PM	In case you're still letting new people join (I'm guessing you are), I'd like to submit my very humble resume (not much of a resume actually). Started D&D when I was 8, I'm now 13. I've been DMing for a year and a half now (I was a player in several previous campaigns), so obviously I'm relatively new to the gig. Currently I'm running two campaigns: one in my own creation world based off a story I've been writing for a while now, the other in the Forgotten Realms. I'm also starting another soon, and possibly one after that in Eberron (I like the magic-is-technology idea). Played most comp games, read most novels, and am obsessed with FR. I could use a place to get second opinions, since there are no other local DM's and I of course can't talk to the players. Drow, undead, and conspiracies are the best. Thanks. Yours respectfully, Chosen of the Dark Sun (yeah Ceric!) P.S.: Where are the instructions Xen115 gave for registering this thread, I can't seem to find them.
ChaosEvoker 10-30-04, 12:11 AM	Hey Chosen of the Dark Sun! Of course, we are always glad to accept new members! Welcome to the Dungeon Master's Foundation! New Member Annoncement: Everyone welcome our new member: Chosen of the Dark Sun
Student Of The Mind 10-30-04, 01:19 AM	Greetings and welcome CotDS. Feel free to let the questions fly. Good Gaming.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-30-04, 03:26 PM	Thanks, but I still can't figure out how to register this thread :confused:
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-30-04, 03:29 PM	As to this Nightwalker, if no one else had this idea, the PC's could be hired to protect a wizard from it.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-30-04, 03:29 PM	Guter Tag und Willkommen zur Grundlage der Kerker-Meister, junge eine! Sorry, I found an internet translator this morning and couldn't resist. Good day and welcome to the Foundation of Dungeon Masters, young one!
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-30-04, 03:36 PM	As to this Nightwalker, if no one else had this idea, the PC's could be hired to protect a wizard from it. A few folks here have suggested direct conflict between the Nightwalker and the PCs, and I really don't wanna do that, mostly because it is the pinnacle of its kind (42 HD), and they're only 11th level. If the Nightwalker didn't have such uber HD, it would be a decent final encounter, (since the Encounter Levels (EL) for all my really big encounters are 3-5 levels higher than the party's average level), but with 42 HD, they're gonna get pounded. I do, however like the idea of the party's wizard being hunted, and I'll probably use that as motivation to stop the Nightwalker and its cult. What I may do is have them learn the names of specific targets, and have their wizard be the 13th and final wizard marked for death. Ummm...That's 169 spellcasters. You might wanna dwarf those numbers a bit. Yeah, I haven't set those numbers in stone yet. I set it kinda high because the PC wizard lives in Waterdeep's magic district (Spellward [homebrew]) with a lot of other wizards (including my personal favorite: Quaal), and learning that she stands to loose most of her friends would really hit home (not to mention light a fire under her cute elven butt :D )
Student Of The Mind 10-30-04, 04:09 PM	A few folks here have suggested direct conflict between the Nightwalker and the PCs, and I really don't wanna do that, mostly because it is the pinnacle of its kind (42 HD), and they're only 11th level. If the Nightwalker didn't have such uber HD, it would be a decent final encounter, (since the Encounter Levels (EL) for all my really big encounters are 3-5 levels higher than the party's average level), but with 42 HD, they're gonna get pounded. I dont think pounded would be the word for such a slaughter...Even if you made two creatures that were 21HD they would still brutally butcher the party. I do, however like the idea of the party's wizard being hunted, and I'll probably use that as motivation to stop the Nightwalker and its cult. What I may do is have them learn the names of specific targets, and have their wizard be the 13th and final wizard marked for death. Definitely liking the hunting of characters...It gives a sense of urgency, and may flare emotions in the party. :D Yeah, I haven't set those numbers in stone yet. I set it kinda high because the PC wizard lives in Waterdeep's magic district (Spellward [homebrew]) with a lot of other wizards (including my personal favorite: Quaal), and learning that she stands to loose most of her friends would really hit home (not to mention light a fire under her cute elven butt :D ) I'm glad you havent set those numbers in stone, cause I think Mystra would be pretty ****** if Shar's cult went around murdering that many wizzies! :D And be careful placing any kind of flame under a cute elven butt, she might get a bit frisky!:D Good gaming.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-30-04, 04:29 PM	I'm glad you havent set those numbers in stone, cause I think Mystra would be pretty ****** if Shar's cult went around murdering that many wizzies! :D It could get the PCs involved in a witch hunt conducted by Mystra's church! I wouldn't mind open conflict raging in the streets between Weave- and Shadow Weave-users. Waterdeep is waist-deep in chaos right now (after the dragon attack), and a little magical mayhem might (ack! alliteration!) be just what they're missing. And be careful placing any kind of flame under a cute elven butt, she might get a bit frisky!:D Gosh, I hope so (course, we are married :D )
Student Of The Mind 10-30-04, 05:12 PM	Gosh, I hope so (course, we are married :D ) Well :censored:! It sounds like you need to go get a torch :D :devil:
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-30-04, 10:11 PM	Well! It sounds like you need to go get a torch! Yeah, as soon as she gets home from work :D Anyway, I think I've decided to go with the Weave-user/Shadow Weave-user war idea. It seems like the most dramatic thing I could do right now, but I'd still like some feedback on possible ramifications (especially months or years down the road).
Student Of The Mind 10-30-04, 10:22 PM	Anyway, I think I've decided to go with the Weave-user/Shadow Weave-user war idea. It seems like the most dramatic thing I could do right now, but I'd still like some feedback on possible ramifications (especially months or years down the road). Wild magic areas within the city streets of Waterdeep...Or null magic zones. I like the choice to go with the war between the two Weave factions, it should make things very interesting. Good Gaming.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-30-04, 10:29 PM	Wild magic areas within the city streets of Waterdeep...Or null magic zones. That would be a really good way to (re-)introduce Wild Mages (from the upcoming Complete Arcane) into the campaign. I know Mystra's Choosen can fix dead magic areas, but is there a spell or other ability that can fix them (aside from divine intervention)?
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-30-04, 11:21 PM	Here's another idea I'm playing with: The cult of Shar may be led by a Halruaan Elder who has turned to the Shadow Weave and Shar's embrace. He plans to use the Nightwalker to take over all of Halruaa in just one night, but needs to test it somewhere first. He's chosen Waterdeep because it has some of the world's most powerful wizards and because it's far enough away from Halruaa that the Netyarch's divinations might not pick up on the events fast enough to stop him. Even if the PCs manage to stop the Nightwalker before it's devoured its 13 weave users in 13 nights, the Halruaan Elder will still attempt to flee the city and try the ritual within Halarahh (Halruaa's capital). This way, the PCs will not only have to figure out where he's gone, but find a way into Halruaa, find the Elder, and discover a way to stop him.
ChaosEvoker 10-31-04, 12:20 AM	Nice idea, I like it. Give the campaign an urgent and continuous feel. Nice. I was always a big fan of Shadow Weave vs Weave. After my shadow weaving demilich went on a hunting spree for mystra's chosen and Mystra teleported him and his phylacerty into the sun....grrrrr.... ANYWAY...good idea sounds like your running with your campaign now, glad I could help
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 12:34 AM	good idea sounds like your running with your campaign now Yeah, I think I've got a few things to work with. I for one would like to hear about Chosen of the Dark Sun campaigns (especially that Ebberon one, cause I don't know anything about Ebberon).
Rapida 10-31-04, 12:57 AM	Hello all I was recently made of aware of this wonderful thread by mordmorgan the mad and I would love to join. I am a really unexperienced DM trying to make a decent campaign in forgotten realms... Anyway I would like to join if thats ok.
Rapida 10-31-04, 01:01 AM	Hello thread goers, I need advice on a alot of things for my campaign. First off I've always had trouble putting together a campaign with a common thread throughout it, this time is proving no different. I just don't know where to go after my first adventure, here is what happened. These are first level characters btw.Oh yeah and sorry in advance for how bad this post looks/typed. I just kind of wrote my thoughts, which as you can see are kind of hectic. The party are hired by a group of paladins and clerics of Tyr to escort a caravan full of goods from blackfeather bridge to ashbenford. During this journey they pick up a drunken dwarf (a late player, only way to bring in character) and set up camp. First night is ok, but during the second night they are attacked by some an orc and some goblins. The orc kills the dwarf and the goblins kill most of the paladins (2/3 i think) and one cleric of Tyr. All is fine, the orc (barbarian/ranger) falls and goblins are killed or chased off. After the battle one of the players start questioning the cleric on what exactly they are transporting. The cleric admits they are transporting an amulet imbued with some of cyric's power. He did this during the time of his insanity. The cleric mentions there is another group of higher level clerics transporting a fake, and that they are going to ashbenford to get it destroyed. The party ends up in ashbenford gets paid and meets an wood elf that they accept into the party just cause he is a player(the drunken dwarf's player). Then the church of tyr charges them with taking the amulet to be destroyed by burying it in the body of Moander in the forest of Cormanthyr. They decide sure, and off they go... The next session: On the road through the forest, on the first night of travel. The elf from ashbenford attacks the party mage, turns out he was an assasin from a merchant(thinking this is a rakasha) the party theif had angered. The mage survives and with some quick thinking from the theif the assasin is vanquished. After saving the cleric and interagatting the assasin elf. They start off on their journey to destroy the amulet thinking its more important. They get to Hillsfar meeting a strange human being turned away from the gate. He quickly explains who he is, (a shifter played by the elf assasin's player) and where he came from. He is from a nearby druid grove trying to make up for the evil his granpa caused. His grandpa was a werewolf, and a member of the blackblood. Anyway they allow him to join the party but they do not let him watch the first few nights. Once they trust him, because he saved the party mage and almost died himself doing so, they allow him to watch. Then they get moander's corpse after walking through strange exploding mushrooms (boomshrooms), and fighting a some vultures (don't ask). They vote on who is gonna bury the amulet the theif looses and he approaches the mound and buries it. This causes the spirit of moander to awaken. It rises over he mound in the form of a ball of negative energy. They wisely decide to flee and it floats toward the heart of myth drannor. After fleeing out of the forest they are attacked by a ghoul, and they recognize it as the assasin from before. Now they are back in ashbenford and I don't know what to do. The elf wizard's family is missing and the Church said they would scry for the amulet his father wears. That is where we left off last session and i have no ideal what to do. Please give me ideals of where i can go with all these plothooks. And onto the second part of my post. The party wizard from above, and the party theif both read some forgotten realms books. Which is really really surprising... and I want to reward them somehow. I dont want to give them an item because it would soon become useless due to them being level one, and experience isn't very special or anything. So I was thinking a weakened LA +1 template or some kind of special ability. Any ideals on this would also be appreciated. Alright thanks for any advice that is offered. ---Rap
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 01:40 AM	The party wizard from above, and the party theif both read some forgotten realms books. Which is really really surprising... and I want to reward them somehow. I dont want to give them an item because it would soon become useless due to them being level one, and experience isn't very special or anything. So I was thinking a weakened LA +1 template or some kind of special ability. Any ideals on this would also be appreciated. Alright thanks for any advice that is offered. ---Rap I wouldn't award them with items or templates or anything like that. Reward them by using things in the books. They'll recognize it and feel like they know something about the world around them (and thus feel connected to it). If you really want to reward them with something "tangible," try XP. Don't give much (less than 100 xp), but make sure they know why they're getting it.
Student Of The Mind 10-31-04, 01:43 AM	Here's another idea I'm playing with: The cult of Shar may be led by a Halruaan Elder who has turned to the Shadow Weave and Shar's embrace. He plans to use the Nightwalker to take over all of Halruaa in just one night, but needs to test it somewhere first. He's chosen Waterdeep because it has some of the world's most powerful wizards and because it's far enough away from Halruaa that the Netyarch's divinations might not pick up on the events fast enough to stop him. Even if the PCs manage to stop the Nightwalker before it's devoured its 13 weave users in 13 nights, the Halruaan Elder will still attempt to flee the city and try the ritual within Halarahh (Halruaa's capital). This way, the PCs will not only have to figure out where he's gone, but find a way into Halruaa, find the Elder, and discover a way to stop him. I like it Mordmorgan...Specially the part with the party going to Halruaa. The place is absolutely majestic in my game, I have taken some of the descriptions from the books and added a bit of flare to them. With blimps or dirigible floating over the towering spires and towers...All powered by magical means and policed by small arial gyrocopters that zip through the air. Of course this is just my version of the old empire. Mount Talath (sp?) is a great place for the characters to hang out, it's a temple to Mystra with a breath taking library...One that dwarves Candle Keep from the sounds of it. Hope my rambling has helps. Good Gaming.
Student Of The Mind 10-31-04, 02:02 AM	The party wizard from above, and the party theif both read some forgotten realms books. Which is really really surprising... and I want to reward them somehow. I dont want to give them an item because it would soon become useless due to them being level one, and experience isn't very special or anything. So I was thinking a weakened LA +1 template or some kind of special ability. Any ideals on this would also be appreciated. Alright thanks for any advice that is offered. ---Rap I would give them a white token for taking further interest in the game...What this is is it allows the players a reroll of choice. A one time token that can be used if say the wizard fails his reflex save...Or the rogue misses a SA roll. It doesnt give them anything in the game, but it gets them hyped about learning more. WARNING! Do not give these out like candy...It will turn your game into hell! Good Gaming and welcome to the "Foundation Of Wicked Minds" ;)
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-31-04, 12:00 PM	Yeah, I haven't set those numbers in stone yet. I set it kinda high because the PC wizard lives in Waterdeep's magic district (Spellward [homebrew]) with a lot of other wizards (including my personal favorite: Quaal), and learning that she stands to loose most of her friends would really hit home (not to mention light a fire under her cute elven butt :D ) Actually, I like that number. It could be hunting the Cowled Wizards of Athkatla and I hate them.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-31-04, 12:28 PM	As to a common thread here's what I did in my FR campaign. For the first while, I had no major villain, and had the PC's go on various missions to do stuff: take down bandit kings, save the elves of the High Forest from a mystery race I made that used it's poison to drive the elves insane and then make their heads explode, defeat a minor dracolich, start their own fortress, etc. Then I brought in Hashkoltokra, a surviving former High-Mage of Netheril (female half-succubus Chosen of Shar vampire necromancer 10/ sorcerer 25/ shadow adept 10). Then they discover that everything they had done had in some way annoyed her, such as that the dracolich had been working for her to protect a minor artifact, which had promptly been stolen when the dracolich was dead. She then sent them to her "prison", a pocket plane. There thay met Vallin, a gnome bard who had been put there 10 days ago to him, and yet in real time it had apparently been 400 years (ouch, since they had aready been there a day). The prison was an area somewhat like Pandemonium, but you couldn't die of hunger, and it slowly drove you insane. To make a long story short, they managed to escape, and found themselves in Silverymoon. It was forty years later, and Hashkoltokra had already risen an army of millions of undead around northern Faerun. They were attacked again (Silverymoon had only 700 survivors, led by Quilue Veladorn, Belwar Dissengulp, and an NPC the Pcs knew), Hashkoltokra destroyed the Mythal with one spell, and they were all driven into the Underdark through an entrace the PCs had found. They are currently part of a group of fifteen people searching for another way out of the Underdark. So random encounters can easily become something a lot more. P.S.: I don't have the Eberron CS yet.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-31-04, 12:47 PM	Heres my suggestion: reading the novels is already making them know more, so give them a bonus on a Knowledge check. Now onto Rapida's campaign. First of all: great start, because it opens up many new paths. My idea is that with the Moander globe of negative energy and the ghoul they fought, the negative energy could upset the energy balance in the area and make it more likely that the dead will rest uneasily and come back to haunt the living. Then the affected area could spread, as the globe travels to spread it curse, an the long run campaign for the PCs could be to destroy Moander's essence and repair the damage they've done to they fabric of the material plane. This could be shown by necromancy spells improving in power (like a meta-magic feat), and towns and cities being attacked by large gorups of zombies and skeletons of dead townsfolk. There could also be necromancers and what is left of the Church of Moander trying to stop them, and members of the Church of Cyric bent on revenge for destroying that amulet. P.S.: I loooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvveeee undead! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-31-04, 01:09 PM	Sorry to continue to be a pain about this guys, but I still can't figure out how to get a link to this thread like ChaosEvoker suggested. Sorry.... :weep: :confused: :(
Rapida 10-31-04, 03:46 PM	I like the ideal of the negative energy effecting everyone near the forest of myth drannor. So for my next adventure I think I will mention some people missing and trouble in a nearby graveyard. And have a cult of moander raising zombies, and all. That should be fun. Thanks for giving me an ideal. I would appreciate any more.
ChaosEvoker 10-31-04, 05:44 PM	Hey, i have the Revised Link to the DMF. [*thread=329068]Member of The Dungeon Masters Foundation[/thread] Make sure To get rid of the * before thread. This is what you need Chosen. Welcome to the DMF Rapida! As for your campaign: My best suggestion to you is toeither cuase the players to take a course of action that woudl ultimately create a bigger conflict (Using a major artifact to stop a villian that accidentalyl raises a mysterious ancient evil for example) or to find some way of tying their actions into a new conflict, such as Chosen did with that uber-shadow weaver Succubus NPC. These are general suggestions, if you'd like any specifics go ahead and ask though.
thasis 10-31-04, 05:54 PM	Hello fellow Dungeon Masters. May I enter your halls as a equal and join your ranks. Also, what is the current topic? I don't have time at the exact moment to look through the posts.
Student Of The Mind 10-31-04, 06:07 PM	Hello fellow Dungeon Masters. May I enter your halls as a equal and join your ranks. Also, what is the current topic? I don't have time at the exact moment to look through the posts. There is no real current topic, Thasis. The Foundation is a collaboration of wicked minds that give ideas to any new/experienced/veteran DM's that are having problems with their campaign or are looking to get advice for a new game that is about to start. So we all toss in our two coppers on questions that are posted by struggling DM's. Hope that helps... Good Gaming.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-31-04, 08:17 PM	Thank you everyone. Rapida, tell us if you need help with any part of your campaign. General advice: my suggestion to anyone who wants a longer and more realistic campaign is for it to take 5-10 times longer for your PCs to level-up. I multiplied by 5 in my campaigns and it makes it so that I don't have to explain to my PCs early on why all of the level 1 orcs suddenly were killed in a bar room brawl because they felt so inadequate fighting the PCs. By the way Thasis, thats a heck of a lot of Guilds you're in! P.S.: Sorry everyone if my sense of humor seems a little out of whack. I tend to make bad jokes. Oh, and Student of the Mind, sorry, my fault with all those messages you sent about registering the thread. It was my fault. As you can see from my join date, I'm new to the forums, and just figured out how to use the personal messages thing. Sorry................................... .............. Member of the Dungeon Masters Foundation
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 08:30 PM	The place is absolutely majestic in my game, I have taken some of the descriptions from the books and added a bit of flare to them. With blimps or dirigible floating over the towering spires and towers...All powered by magical means and policed by small arial gyrocopters that zip through the air. Of course this is just my version of the old empire. Mount Talath (sp?) is a great place for the characters to hang out, it's a temple to Mystra with a breath taking library...One that dwarves Candle Keep from the sounds of it. I may have to steal that part with the blimps. Mount Talath may be a pretty good place for the Halruaan Elder to summon the Nightwalker.
Student Of The Mind 10-31-04, 08:50 PM	P.S.: Sorry everyone if my sense of humor seems a little out of whack. I tend to make bad jokes. It's all good...I have a strange sense of humor too, my woman looks at me like I'm crazy 90% of the time when I make jokes. Oh, and Student of the Mind, sorry, my fault with all those messages you sent about registering the thread. It was my fault. As you can see from my join date, I'm new to the forums, and just figured out how to use the personal messages thing. Sorry................................... .............. Member of the Dungeon Masters Foundation As I said before...It's all good. Everybody has their moments ;)
thasis 10-31-04, 09:00 PM	Me and me friend Punisher4 are thinking of running a BoVD campaign sometime. The players are going to be mostly sicko's and weirdo's. I'm going to help design and run the setting but I will be playing in it quite often to. What do you think of the idea. A campaign that encourages sick and evil behaviour. I think it's asome. I need some ideas on how to create the setting though. I've never created a gothic style/ twisted demented style setting. The idea is that in the continent that the players start of in is ruled by Demons and Devil. The people in the continent are mainly of the evil alignment. Demonolgy and Dark Arts are common practice. The setting is high magic and has a lot of people who are wack jobs. Whats your guys and girls suggestions on running and designing this sort of game.
Student Of The Mind 10-31-04, 09:00 PM	I may have to steal that part with the blimps. Mount Talath may be a pretty good place for the Halruaan Elder to summon the Nightwalker. I'm glad you like that idea...You might wanna pick up the Shining South book that just came out, and check out some of the ideas in there...I havent read it yet so I'm not entirely sure what's in there. Anyways, I'm glad you like the idea...I have them as floating platforms for labs and studies that can take flight and retreat from invasions of the cities. Ok I'm starting to ramble... Good Gaming.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 09:12 PM	I'm glad you like that idea...You might wanna pick up the Shining South book that just came out, and check out some of the ideas in there...I havent read it yet so I'm not entirely sure what's in there. Anyways, I'm glad you like the idea...I have them as floating platforms for labs and studies that can take flight and retreat from invasions of the cities. Ok I'm starting to ramble... Good Gaming. I picked it up the other day & I'm fairly surprised how few people live in Halruaa. It's largest city is really a small town :( . I kinda invisioned it like about half of waterdeep in size, but wholly magical (floating platforms, flying ships, etc.). Oh well. I think it'll still work, but I may have to inflate the numbers a bit. Speaking of numbers, I think I am going to keep the 13 wizards in 13 nights thing. I like how Waterdeep's in so much trouble, and loosing that many Weave-users is going to be a big hit.
Student Of The Mind 10-31-04, 09:19 PM	Me and me friend Punisher4 are thinking of running a BoVD campaign sometime. The players are going to be mostly sicko's and weirdo's. I'm going to help design and run the setting but I will be playing in it quite often to. What do you think of the idea. A campaign that encourages sick and evil behaviour. I think it's asome. I need some ideas on how to create the setting though. I've never created a gothic style/ twisted demented style setting. The idea is that in the continent that the players start of in is ruled by Demons and Devil. The people in the continent are mainly of the evil alignment. Demonolgy and Dark Arts are common practice. The setting is high magic and has a lot of people who are wack jobs. Whats your guys and girls suggestions on running and designing this sort of game. A few things... First, how old is the group of players? If they are young and immature be careful that the game doesnt get out of hand. Evil characters are hard for young players to handle. Second, I would limit the alignments to LE or NE because CE is extremely easy to let run wild...Also making the limitation of LE and NE it allows you to have a Law & Chaos war. This will also allow you to have the battle between Demon and Devil cities, which can be intense and almost terrifying. One more thing before I continue...If you are going to have your evil characters go after good NPC's, you can have a triangle effect with the lawful evil and chaotic evil fighting while these both are going after the good...It'll make things much more interesting. Third...I like the idea. I need more information to actually give you more advice though, because I do not know what you have in mind for the entire campaign. So if you could give more information it would be greatly appreciated. Good Gaming.
thasis 10-31-04, 09:39 PM	I have to have Punisher4 over at my house sometime. We'll set up the basics of the campaign then. When that happens I'll post more info.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 10-31-04, 09:40 PM	Alright, I need some help with the terminology here. What is a BoVD and what's a BBEG? :confused: As to Thasis's campaign, because of the negative energy, you could increse the number of freakish mutations and outcasts amongst the people. Member of the Dungeon Masters Foundation
thasis 10-31-04, 09:43 PM	The BoVD is the Book of Vile Darkness and BBEG is Big Bad Evil Guy.
Student Of The Mind 10-31-04, 09:46 PM	I picked it up the other day & I'm fairly surprised how few people live in Halruaa. It's largest city is really a small town :( . I kinda invisioned it like about half of waterdeep in size, but wholly magical (floating platforms, flying ships, etc.). Oh well. I think it'll still work, but I may have to inflate the numbers a bit. Speaking of numbers, I think I am going to keep the 13 wizards in 13 nights thing. I like how Waterdeep's in so much trouble, and loosing that many Weave-users is going to be a big hit. Yes I was disappointed with the population of Halruaa too, though when you read about it it makes a bit of sense. In Halarahh 3 of every 8 citizens are wizards which is down right wrong :twitch:. I doubled the population but adjusted the ratio of wizards, making it 3/16 of the majority. Also I'm glad you decided to dwarf the victim numbers for the wizards...With the 169 arcane being killed, it would be logical for Mystra to become very ****** and then it would make sense to add in the Chosen of Mystra into the equation...Which you dont want, or atleast I wouldnt want to add them into my game. Hopefully that makes sense...Good gaming.
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 10:13 PM	Also I'm glad you decided to dwarf the victim numbers for the wizards...With the 169 arcane being killed, it would be logical for Mystra to become very ****** and then it would make sense to add in the Chosen of Mystra into the equation...Which you dont want, or atleast I wouldnt want to add them into my game. Sorry, I may not have been as clear as I should have been. I'm going to use the higher numbers (i.e. kill 13 weave-users each night for 13 nights for a total of 169 weave-users killed if the Nightwalker isn't stopped). I'm planning on focusing on the PCs' efforts to slay the cult's leader and stop the Nightwalker by destroying the cult. The Chosen will definitely get involved, but I'm planning on having them attack the Nightwalker directly. Considering the might the Chosen can bring to bear, I'm thinking about making the Nightwalker an Avatar of Shar. Doing that could do two things: One, it'll hint that the Halruaan Elder is as foolish as his Netherese ancestors when it comes to using epic spells. Two, it'll mark the start of Shar's fight to usurp the Magic portfolio from Mystra. I'm looking for a "Time of Troubles" feel in Waterdeep, but instead of the gods walking Toril, thier followers will be out in force and clashing in the streets.
Student Of The Mind 10-31-04, 10:22 PM	Sorry, I may not have been as clear as I should have been. I'm going to use the higher numbers (i.e. kill 13 weave-users each night for 13 nights for a total of 169 weave-users killed if the Nightwalker isn't stopped). I'm planning on focusing on the PCs' efforts to slay the cult's leader and stop the Nightwalker by destroying the cult. The Chosen will definitely get involved, but I'm planning on having them attack the Nightwalker directly. Considering the might the Chosen can bring to bear, I'm thinking about making the Nightwalker an Avatar of Shar. Doing that could do two things: One, it'll hint that the Halruaan Elder is as foolish as his Netherese ancestors when it comes to using epic spells. Two, it'll mark the start of Shar's fight to usurp the Magic portfolio from Mystra. I'm looking for a "Time of Troubles" feel in Waterdeep, but instead of the gods walking Toril, thier followers will be out in force and clashing in the streets. Ahh...Sounds kewl, please keep me posted on your progress. Good Gaming.
Rapida 10-31-04, 10:31 PM	I like that 13 mages for 13 night deal sounds cool. You should have the last night be on a lunar eclipse, seems to fit. And about my campaign, I like the ideals of both Cyric and Moander after the pcs. I was thinking the cult of Moander would be kidnapping people, trying to sacrifice enough to ressurect moander fully. The church of cyric on the other hand would be trying to pervert the ritual somehow, maybe hiring the pcs to sneak into the ritual once they found the location and do something (suggestions?). Then the church of cyric ends up betraying them somehow leaving them for dead. Any ideals on how I could flesh this out?
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 10:37 PM	I like that 13 mages for 13 night deal sounds cool. You should have the last night be on a lunar eclipse, seems to fit. Nice touch :D And about my campaign, I like the ideals of both Cyric and Moander after the pcs. I was thinking the cult of Moander would be kidnapping people, trying to sacrifice enough to ressurect moander fully. The church of cyric on the other hand would be trying to pervert the ritual somehow, maybe hiring the pcs to sneak into the ritual once they found the location and do something (suggestions?). Then the church of cyric ends up betraying them somehow leaving them for dead. Any ideals on how I could flesh this out? I'd have Cyric's followers help (behind the scenes) Moander's cult ressurect their god. Cyric will have a much easier time slaying Moander (and taking his portfolios) just after his ressurection. The PCs could be used to attack the Cult of Moander just after they've completed the ritual ressurecting the god, which would probably draw Moander's attention, giving Cyric the perfect time to attack.
Rapida 10-31-04, 11:02 PM	What if the church of cyric hired the pcs to sneak into the cult making them believe their actions will ruin the ritual. But really it will weaken moander making him an easy target for cyric. Then right after the pcs screw up the ritual somehow, the church of cyric attacks. In the confusion that follows hopefully the PCs decide to make a hasty exit. Now onto the ritual part, how should this work. I was thinking the Elf's father should be involved somehow, maybe as a sacrifice or something? But how would the ritual work....
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 11:06 PM	What if the church of cyric hired the pcs to sneak into the cult making them believe their actions will ruin the ritual. But really it will weaken moander making him an easy target for cyric. Then right after the pcs screw up the ritual somehow, the church of cyric attacks. In the confusion that follows hopefully the PCs decide to make a hasty exit. Hopefully they beat a hasty retreat with some object (possibly the ritual's focus) that could possibly reverse Cyric's acqusition of Moander's portfolio. Imagine thier terror when they learn the Dark Sun is personally orginizing thier persuit.
Rapida 10-31-04, 11:12 PM	That does sound cool. LoL if they dont make a hasty retreat then when the party dies I have my next adventure hook. Ok what if the ritual's focus is the amulet they buried, and the cult of moander is using a human (or elven in this case) vessel to hold moander's growing power. So the elf's father is the vessel and they must flee with him. Of course they won't screw up the ritual in time for them to totally stop the transfer of power, and the elf's father will become tainted. I can see this actually working. So then the church of cyric is after the amulet and his father if they realize he contains some of moander's power, the church of moander is after the elf's father, and the elf's father slowly is being corrupted. Fun all around
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 11:21 PM	That does sound cool. LoL if they dont make a hasty retreat then when the party dies I have my next adventure hook. Ok what if the ritual's focus is the amulet they buried, and the cult of moander is using a human (or elven in this case) vessel to hold moander's growing power. So the elf's father is the vessel and they must flee with him. Of course they won't screw up the ritual in time for them to totally stop the transfer of power, and the elf's father will become tainted. I can see this actually working. So then the church of cyric is after the amulet and his father if they realize he contains some of moander's power, the church of moander is after the elf's father, and the elf's father slowly is being corrupted. Fun all around What if they escape with the amulet, but are forced to leave the elf's father behind. The PCs might be willing to make an old fashioned horse-trade with the Cult, or sneak into their HQ and steal the old elf away. Of course, when they do this, they won't know that Cyric secretly moved Moander's power out of the amulet and into the old elf. If you wanted to develop that idea a little more, you could have the old elf physically become Moander (over a period of slow transformation).
ChaosEvoker 10-31-04, 11:26 PM	hmm idk. I'm not sure even Elminster and The Symbul and other mystra's chosen coudl take on a deity's avatar. Those things are wicked tough. But it adds high intensity. But that's a great set up for a nice long epic-level campaign. where Shar succeeds at stealing the magic portfolio and converts the weave to the shadow weave, and the PCs have to defeat her and give magic back to mystra...man campiagns are so much more fun at epic levels. Anyway, CHAOS EVOKER OUT
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-31-04, 11:59 PM	hmm idk. I'm not sure even Eleminster and The Symbul and other mystra's chosen coudl take on a deity's avatar. Those things are wicked tough. But it adds high intensity. But that's a great set up for a nice long epic-level campaign. where Shar succeeds at stealing the magic portfolio and converts the weave to the shadow weave, and the PCs have to defeat her and give magic back to mystra...man campiagns are so much more fun at epic levels.I think all the Chosen (with some help from Mystra) could probably at least stall Shar's Avatar. I don't know if I'd allow Shar to succeed (mostly beause I don't think she would handle the portfolio very well), but the threat of her ultimate victory is enough to scare even the bravest of heroes (unless they have the Fearless feat :D ).
Shard of Suzail 11-01-04, 08:15 AM	Well, much as i hate to intterupt the work of an avatar of Shar... Mordmorgan sent me a post about this place and i would be interested in joining up :) I`m a gm of long standing experience and, though i`m currently running a stargate game, i also play Forgotten Realms d and d (we are at the 10th level). I`m happy to contibute any ideas and comments i have, should you feel i can be of use to you.
Xen155 11-01-04, 11:11 AM	Hail To the Foundation Of Dungeon Masters. *nods to newcomer* Has anyone heard from Cunning Linguist?
ChaosEvoker 11-01-04, 11:12 AM	Yeah I finally get around to doing some business in Computer Programming I...ANYWAY Member Announcements: Thasis Shard of Suzail Welcome to the DMV guys! Alright and I'm adding a new feature to our guild explained in my next post so I can mess with fancy asthsetically pleasing HTML stuff...heh heh heh...CHAOS EVOKER OUT
ChaosEvoker 11-01-04, 01:19 PM	Anouncement for a new feature for the DMF Hail to the Dungeon Master's Foundation! Thanks to some good ideas and recruiting I have added a new rating system in order to reward those who have been doing good work for the foundation. Here's how it goes: Work for the foundation gains a member points. A certain number of points gains a member rank dice. In other words if you have 3 rank dice, your rank is: :dice: :dice: :dice: Alright, once a member gets 5 dice, the next level changes those 5 dice into your first magic symbol. Example, BobTheDMFMember has 5 rank dice and gains to the next level his rank is now: :w: Alright so after oyur magic symbol you begin getting dice again after you get 5 more dice, your next level will change your rank to the next magic level. The Symbols will change as follows: :w: to :g: to :u: to :r: to :b: Once a person achieves black level, they continue getting dice the next level after 5 more dice will get him/her another :w: which will advance until it gets to :r: where it will stop. This goes on, the third magic symbol stops at :u: the fourth at :g: and the fifth stops at :w: Once all five have been achieved five more dice can be achieved. But it goes no higher. Hence the highest rating is: Here's the point system those with an * next to them can be gained multiple times: Joining: 1 point *Posting Consistantly: 2 points *Recruiting A New Member: 3 points *Hosting a New Sub-Thread for the group: 5 points (MUST be authorized by me) More ideas for points will be to come, it takes 10 points to gain a rank die.
Xen155 11-01-04, 01:28 PM	Here is an idea: Perhaps we could have a sort of online character arena. The members could create characters using some guidelines set by the council members and ChaosEvoker and go at it, your character would increase in power after every victory and decrease in power with every defeat, the ranking system that ChaosEvoker created could also be applied to the characters. We could create a sub-thread were the fighting would take place. I was thinking that ChaosEvoker would DM or we could figure out some other way to roll and verify dice over the internet. I thought this might be an enjoyable thing to do and does not sound near as complicated as the Inter-Foundation war. Anyways, give some feedback DMs and I’ll be hoping to get the Council members together.
ChaosEvoker 11-01-04, 01:28 PM	New Points Ideas: Being Accepted as a Counsil Member: 3 points There will be various ad hocs. I'll be hosting a thread soon to keep track of members and their ranking/points. Xen will help with the management of that and anyone else who wants to it will be greatly appreciated
ChaosEvoker 11-01-04, 01:37 PM	Hail to the Dungeon Master's Foundation! Thanks to some good ideas and recruiting I have added a new rating system in order to reward those who have been doing good work for the foundation. This thread is designed to keep track of members and their ratings/points. Here's how it goes: Work for the foundation gains a member points. A certain number of points gains a member rank dice. In other words if you have 3 rank dice, your rank is: Alright, once a member gets 5 dice, the next level changes those 5 dice into your first magic symbol. Example, BobTheDMFMember has 5 rank dice and gains to the next level his rank is now: Alright so after oyur magic symbol you begin getting dice again after you get 5 more dice, your next level will change your rank to the next magic level. The Symbols will change as follows: to to to to Once a person achieves black level, they continue getting dice the next level after 5 more dice will get him/her another which will advance until it gets to where it will stop. This goes on, the third magic symbol stops at the fourth at and the fifth stops at Once all five have been achieved five more dice can be achieved. But it goes no higher. Hence the highest rating is: Here's the point system those with an * next to them can be gained multiple times: Joining: 1 point *Posting Consistantly: 2 points *Recruiting A New Member: 3 points *Hosting a New Sub-Thread for the group: 5 points (MUST be authorized by me) Becoming a Counsil Member: 3 points More ideas for points will be to come, it takes 10 points to gain a rank die. NOTE: DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD UNLESS YOU HAVE A QUESITON OR ARE ME OR A MANAGER! DOING SO WILL RESULT IN A SEVERE LOSS OF POINTS!!
Shard of Suzail 11-01-04, 01:51 PM	Right, i`m full of enthusiam. Whats the next big project we are working on, how can i best put my creative energies to use?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-01-04, 03:12 PM	Well, if I count correctly, I've got one :dice: Recruits: Rapida & Shard of Suzail (6 points) Constant Posting: (2 points) Council Member: (3 points) Total 11 points :dice: Horay for me! :D So should I list that die in my sig?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-01-04, 03:17 PM	Here is an idea: Perhaps we could have a sort of online character arena. The members could create characters using some guidelines set by the council members and ChaosEvoker and go at it, your character would increase in power after every victory and decrease in power with every defeat, the ranking system that ChaosEvoker created could also be applied to the characters. We could create a sub-thread were the fighting would take place. I was thinking that ChaosEvoker would DM or we could figure out some other way to roll and verify dice over the internet. I thought this might be an enjoyable thing to do and does not sound near as complicated as the Inter-Foundation war. Anyways, give some feedback DMs and I’ll be hoping to get the Council members together. I love this idea. I hope we won't have to make characters with point buy, especially if we can find some fair way of rolling dice over the web. I like a little chance in my Character creation. :D
Rapida 11-01-04, 04:22 PM	Cool, I like the ideal of making characters. These characters could also be a source of generic BBEGs that way all DMs would have to do is insert them into the campaign.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-01-04, 09:59 PM	I think the idea of making characters is an awsome idea. It'll give us all a chance to improve our DMing skills. But I do agree that point buy would be best, and we should have a limit to how powerful a race you can be. I don't wanna be dwarfed in power by some vampiric mind-flayer, however THAT would work. I agree with Rapida that they would make good characters to insert into our campaigns. Rapida, good campaign line. It should catch the players of guard. You could also make it so that the Moander Essence can spread its taint to other people, maybe slowly causing insanity or some-such, or maybe even outright possession (ooooooohhhh, possession). P.S.: Hopefully this is the last time I have to ask for help about the forums, but how do you guys get those pictures next to your names? Member of the Dungeon Masters Foundation
Rapida 11-01-04, 10:04 PM	Click on My Account from the menu bar up top, and then go to edit avatar.
ChaosEvoker 11-01-04, 10:07 PM	Go to my account near the top of the screen an select teh "My Avatar" option on the left. Then pick your picture. Anyway, ok here's how I see the best solution for the character's thing: I will act as the DM, in order to make sure to have a fair rolling system I will use an online dice roller and then give you your results. Stats and everything included. It's the only way I can see to guarantee that no rolls are "tweaked." We can eitehr do small adventuring groups or set up a duel system where people of the same or similar classes duke it out one-on-one. Tell me what you think. Also I'm thinking of rewarding member points for participation and even more for victory in this new idea. Plus, I'll eventualyl let someone else DM the fighting arena to help give other's experience. Anyway, give me some feedback and we'll get this rolling. Modmorgan: yes you have one die and add it to your signature in a similar way to mine.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-01-04, 10:17 PM	I think that if it isn't to much trouble, a campaign would be much more interesting than an arena. And, let me make sure I've got this right, you roll for us and we choose which ability to put each roll in? :cool: Also, about roll tweaking. I'm sure this will sound a bit naive to some of you, but I think mostif not all of us can be trusted. Unless there's someone I misjudged (eyes dart around suspiciously). :mad:
ChaosEvoker 11-01-04, 10:33 PM	Exactly, you'd choose your characters ability PLACEMENT I'd tell you what numbers you have to work with. AS for races, I wouldn't go with any races that present special ECLs for now, simply because we'll be staring first lv if we go campaign, and that could get troublesome. Possibly later. I have some ideas for campaign style: Multiple groups play the same campaign at the same time, their actions affect the others. It will kind of be a race to finish and get the item or whatever. Kidn of like the old school days when it was first invented. One DM, various groups, a bunch of players. It coudl be relaly cool. The dungeon would grow with the players. PC groups coudl set traps for other PC groups, etc. This is sounding relaly fun. If there's no more or not too many mroe suggestions, then I suggest people who want to try it as we ahe it now to go ahead and post their request to join in and we'll figure out how to make various groups. Keep recruiting guys! CHAOS EVOKER OUT
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-01-04, 10:41 PM	Alright, I think that if we have enough people for multiple adventuring groups, we could asign people to several DMs, and the DMs talk to each other about what is going on with each group. We could do this all on a separate thread.
ChaosEvoker 11-01-04, 10:54 PM	hmm I wouldn't go for the multiple DMs, could RELALY slow the game down. No what we would probably do Is figure out some kind of chat room system or something so that no other groups could see what others are doing. ANy suggestions for this I'm well up to. We need a place to make each individual adventuring group private.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-01-04, 10:57 PM	Would a private thread for each group work?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-01-04, 11:04 PM	Lets go ahead and create the new thread and hash stuff out there. Rapida: If you've got more info on your campaign, I'd love to hear it.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-01-04, 11:16 PM	Where would we put these new threads?
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-01-04, 11:26 PM	For recruting members, which would you guys suggest. PMing promising looking people or making general announcements?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-01-04, 11:52 PM	I use PM, just because I don't want just any old DM joining :D . We want the best of the best.
Rapida 11-02-04, 08:13 AM	So far with my campaign, I've just been planning how the ritual is gonna work. I'm thinking it goes on in a cave somewhere in the forest of Cormanthyr, with mold, lichen, and fungi growing everywhere of course. The cave has multiple entrances and exits, but most of them only loop around and only 2 lead to the outside. In the center of the cavern there is an elevated flat rock large enough for 5 people or so to stand on. And part of that juts over a hole. Which in this case will be full of fire, green fire. The altar will be on top of the flat rock near the hole, and they plan to drop the sacrifice in or something. The PCs objective will be to extingush the flames with something the church of cyric provides. When they do about 20 members of the church of cyric charge in and start battle with the 15 moander cultist. Then the PCs can decide what to do. And about the Elf's father being the sacrifice. I'm thinking the church of cyric will tell them the moander cultist have him, but really they will have him. The cultist will really have another NPC the party members know, and who also happens to be the leader of the church of tyr in ashbenford. So that came straight off my brain so it might not make much sense. Thats just what I've thought of so far.
Xen155 11-02-04, 11:22 AM	A sorrowful greeting to the Foundation Of Dungeon Masters. Cunning Linguist has recently PMed me, replying to my question on if he was going to continue his membership with the DMF, he will not be joining us:( Im glade to see my idea taking off so quickly, i suggest we create a new thread for the actual combat/campaign/contest (whatever we decide on.) and if need be we should create a thread for rule discussion. please tell me if you think this thread will be necessary.
Aramar the Black 11-02-04, 03:43 PM	Wow, This thread went form like three posts to 5 pages in the week I was gone. I'm behind. This campaign/battle idea sounds like fun.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-02-04, 06:35 PM	Rapida, try to tie the sacrifice in with Moander's old portfolio. If it works like something he was a deity of, it will make more sense. Or maybe what yoy have already does work, I can't ramember his portfolio.
Rapida 11-02-04, 06:53 PM	Well his old portfolios were Rotting Death, decay, corruption So i think this will work, death and corruption are definitly being used.
ChaosEvoker 11-02-04, 10:26 PM	Ok for the campaign/battle Idea I am creating a new thread The DMF Campaign Rules Discussion
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-02-04, 10:27 PM	Rapida, perhaps instead of a stone sacrificial platform, it could be composed of decaying bodies. The torches could be held in the hands of corpses propped against the wall. ;)
Tenzhi 11-03-04, 12:18 AM	Isn't this sort of ranked hierarchy specifically verboten?
ChaosEvoker 11-03-04, 07:06 AM	No, it is not a hierarchy it is a regonigtion system for members who do work for the foundation. Pleas DO NOT post int his thread unless you have been granted permission
Tenzhi 11-03-04, 05:40 PM	No, it is not a hierarchy it is a regonigtion system for members who do work for the foundation. Pleas DO NOT post int his thread unless you have been granted permission Calling it something else does not change the fact that it is definitively a hierarchy (def. - A series in which each element is graded or ranked). Even if it is allowed, it's the sort of thing that should be handled in the base Foundation just like any other member list. Starting a redundant new thread for it is nothing short of spam, really. But then, there seem to be a number of redundant threads popping up of late...
Kavu Overlord 11-03-04, 06:25 PM	I wish to join your guild. I am a DM. Is that good?
Shard of Suzail 11-03-04, 09:15 PM	I`ve just written an article for regdar's repository, on the d and d boards. Hopefuly it should be approved soon. It is called "fitting in is winning, at D and D" and basically is about how players should make efforts to fit into their group and campaign. It is also an encouragement to dm's to boot out troublesome characters, so as to keep the party happy and together. You guys, as veterans, will probably not need those tips, but hopefuly it will be of use to newer gm's and players.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-03-04, 09:48 PM	I`ve just written an article for regdar's repository, on the d and d boards. Hopefuly it should be approved soon. It is called "fitting in is winning, at D and D" and basically is about how players should make efforts to fit into their group and campaign. It is also an encouragement to dm's to boot out troublesome characters, so as to keep the party happy and together. You guys, as veterans, will probably not need those tips, but hopefuly it will be of use to newer gm's and players. Good job, though I may look over it myself. I'm still relatively new to DMing
ChaosEvoker 11-03-04, 09:54 PM	Kavu Overlord welcome to the DMF! Everyone greet our new member. I'd like to know how experienced you are just for refference Kavu. Chosen you can add that DMF Member thread into your signature Ok, question: Does anyone have good trick for creating interesting new monsters and accurately marking their CR?
ChaosEvoker 11-03-04, 09:58 PM	Heirarchy implies power over those who have a lower rank. Plus it's not redundant its a online place where members can check their points and stats and such so we (the managers of the member points) can easily keep track of where member's stats are and have a quick refference point. It's not redundant because there are no other posts like it. REGARDLESS TAKE YOUR ISSUES UP AT THE MAIN DMF FORUM DO NOT POST HERE.
ChaosEvoker 11-03-04, 10:05 PM	The First Dungeon Master Foundation Campaign is ready to begin! Dungeon Master: Chaos Evoker Current Players: None (applications still open) Alright were going on the trust system as far as the threads are concerned. If we don't have enough players we may do only one adventuring group, we'll see how the turn out is. Everyone who wants to paly in the DMF Campaign, run by me, needs to post their request allong with: 1) A statement saying they wish to play 2) What type of character they wish to run 3) A vow saying they will not cheat Alright make your posts if you wish to play
Tenzhi 11-03-04, 10:09 PM	As my issues are specifically with this thread, putting them elsewhere would make no sense. The reason it is a redundant thread is because it is a function of the base foundation and should be handled there like it is with every other foundation. But unless I have to explain my point any further that's my final word on the matter.
ChaosEvoker 11-03-04, 10:13 PM	By your reasoning ANY sub-thread of a main thread is redundant. ultimately any sub-thread is a function of the base. So your assertion is not only incorrect but would be ludicrous if it were correct THAT is my final word on the mater, from now on if anyone has complaints about anything we are doing, brign it to the main forum
Rapida 11-03-04, 10:23 PM	What exactly will we be doing in the campaign? Dungeon crawl, roleplaying, both? Anyway I want to play if its dungeon crawl, I dont really wanna roleplay all that much. Um, If I can play I wanna play a arcane caster of some sort (sorcerer, wizard, bard). Most likely wizard, and I wouldn't cheat.
Tenzhi 11-03-04, 10:33 PM	By your reasoning ANY sub-thread of a main thread is redundant. And thus why there *aren't* sub-threads.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-03-04, 10:53 PM	Personally, role-playing can much dungeoneering much more interesting. I like to talk, not just fight. It gives me more opportunity to improve my creativity and writing skills. I would prefer being a sorcerer, but since Rapida already wants that, I'll take a drow (if possible) rogue and maybe multiclass later. Last of all, welcome to the DMF, Kavu Overlord (kavu rock!)!
Dyne 11-03-04, 10:58 PM	Man this foundation moves quickly. This thread was started not long ago, and it's already 6 pages long. Dyne here. I joined a while back, but I have no idea what's going on. If someone could bring me up to speed, it would be most helpful. I'll probably read through all the posts anyway, but it'd be helpful.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-03-04, 10:59 PM	We are currently working on a Foundation exclusive campaign.
Rapida 11-03-04, 11:05 PM	If there is a enough people I wouldn't mind being a suppourt type character, its one of my favorite types to play.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-04-04, 01:39 AM	I'd like to play too. Like always, I'd like to be a human rogue. And of course, I wouldn't cheat, but my rogue might :D. Just kidding. Anyway, I'd enjoy a little more roleplaying than hack n slash, but I'm sure it'll be fine. Edit: I think we should create a thread for this new game, and try to get this one back to campaign advice and stuff like that. Just my opinion, but I think it's the reason Student of the Mind hasnt been here in a while.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-04-04, 01:42 AM	I`ve just written an article for regdar's repository, on the d and d boards. Hopefuly it should be approved soon. It is called "fitting in is winning, at D and D" and basically is about how players should make efforts to fit into their group and campaign. It is also an encouragement to dm's to boot out troublesome characters, so as to keep the party happy and together. You guys, as veterans, will probably not need those tips, but hopefuly it will be of use to newer gm's and players. Excellent! I always enjoy reading the tips for new DMs, eventhough I've been doing this for more than a decade. It brings me back to the early days when you could frighten PCs by telling them the warrior they faced had Strength 15, and when the party wizard got his second magic missile. Whenever I run out of ideas I always try to revive some old villain or plot line, and even if I don't use it, it gets the creative juices flowing.
Tenzhi 11-04-04, 01:48 AM	Everyone who wants to paly in the DMF Campaign, run by me, needs to post their request allong with: Wouldn't it make more sense to post creation guidelines before anyone begins posting character submissions? You know - starting level, acceptable LA/templates/races/PrCs/etc., ability score generation methods... 3) A vow saying they will not cheat If they're the sort that's inclined to cheat, breaking a vow will be easier than breaking a sweat; and if they're the sort who's not inclined to cheat then the vow is unnecessary.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-04-04, 01:58 AM	Orcy would have to agree that this thread isnt necessary. This is just another function that can be easily taken care of by the foundation thread itself, and should be taken care of by the foundation thread itself. Take the example of pretty much every other foundation, in that they all give any rankings and such in their own foundation thread. Another thread specifically for that purpose is not needed.
Xen155 11-04-04, 10:49 AM	I humbly request to join. I will be a Wizard. And, i Will Not Cheat. :schemes:
ChaosEvoker 11-04-04, 11:22 AM	Wouldn't it make more sense to post creation guidelines before anyone begins posting character submissions? You know - starting level, acceptable LA/templates/races/PrCs/etc., ability score generation methods... If they're the sort that's inclined to cheat, breaking a vow will be easier than breaking a sweat; and if they're the sort who's not inclined to cheat then the vow is unnecessary. We've already discussed the first part of htis you are out of the loop. We are startign at lv 1, I am giving out the results of ANYTHING involving dice. We are not using templates or extra ECL races right now. As for the second part, yes your right. However this will give me full rights to remove and deal with those who do, becuase they promised not to.
ChaosEvoker 11-04-04, 11:23 AM	Orcy is wrong, it consumes too much space and it much harder to refference if its in the main thread. This is for convience, efficiency and ease.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-04-04, 01:07 PM	This thread is not a foundation, and thus has no place on the foundation board. While it does relate to a foundation, this task can easily be carried out in the main foundation, no matter how cluttered you believe it will become. On another note, Orcy does believe that a ranking system is not allowed within foundations. While titles are allowed, ranking one member better than another is not, this is from memory, as Orcy cannot find where he saw this. He is currently waiting for a reply from the WizOs in charge of this board. Ah yes, and refering to your earlier post about not posting in this thread unless permission has been granted. That is also against the rules of the board. You cannot ban anybody from posting in any foundation, though, again, this isnt even a foundation thread.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-04-04, 01:17 PM	Rather than just simply deciding all the results yourself, with dice and such. Orcy suggests using an online dice roller such as this one (http://krisinchico.brinkster.net/rolldata.asp) which they use on the real adventures board. Also, as Orcy has mentioned in your game thread, he thinks it would be better off in another section. Considering this is the guild house, for foundations, guilds, etc. Not for campaigns run for a small group.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-04-04, 08:36 PM	Alright, I'll be a kobold Cleric of Bahamut. Oh, and Orcy what other section would YOU suggest, hmmm?
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-04-04, 08:52 PM	Orcy would suggest the real adventures board. About four little board links up from this one on the games: message boards part of the forum. Heres the little description there: A group of realistic message board based role-playing adventures, using whatever D&D/d20 rules you prefer, and our fancy online dice roller. Anyone can participate as a player or DM. To get started, read the "Forum Handbook" thread inside. Where our sections is: The Guild house, home of foundations, clubs, councils and guilds, is a place to gather and dicuss your favortite topics. Now, we havent changed that from the generic info Doxxie put up there, but it isnt really a place for games to be started and played that is essentially a small group run by a foundation, a single member of a foundation that is.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-04-04, 09:38 PM	Alright, I concede Orcy's point. There is a better place for this. Go to the Wizards community boards, and then to the real games section. I never noticed that before...
WizO_Catoblepas 11-04-04, 09:52 PM	Orcy is right. Let's keep the info all in one thread: member listing, introduction, etc. I used to have it such that ranking was not allowed when the threads were on the other boards. However, the GMs convinced me to be a little more open with this requirement. However, please keep in mind that if members begin to complain that they're being unfairly "lower ranked", we may have to reinstitute this rule as well. In essense, we want to keep the rules as minimum as possible and keep in fun for all. However, it's got to be fun for all!
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-04-04, 11:37 PM	I'd like to congratulate Shard of Suzail for the newest article in Redgar's Repository entitiled Fitting in is *Winning* (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=332880) . It's a fantastic read, and more importantly, some of the best advice any player or DM could heed. Shard has recognized the basic problem with D&D, and proposed (in my humble opinion) the best possible solution. Congratulations Shard! :clap:
Shard of Suzail 11-05-04, 07:31 AM	Thankyou Mordmorgan. *goes all silly and falls over*.
ChaosEvoker 11-05-04, 08:13 AM	Alright well since people are harping on us so much, we're closing all our sub threads regardless of the fact that tons of other foundations have them. So in order to perserve the flow of this thread we will be keeping the member status unposted, anyone can request to see their scores, but we will notify you if you gain a rank. As for the campaign, we have moved the setup to another location. The setup is currently being held in the Real Adventures: Setup Zone. We are in our pregame setup phase so post your requests, even if you've posted already to join that. From here on out let ALL capaign related buisiness be dealt with there. In the meantime, anyone want some campaign or DM advise?
ChaosEvoker 11-05-04, 08:25 AM	Shard, I also take off my hat to you. Wonderful article. I'm taking that advise to my players. IN fact the whole big mix of alignments is currently a situation I was worrying about in my current group, your article has helped me. Thanks alot. :bow: :tiphat:
Shard of Suzail 11-05-04, 08:40 AM	I`m glad it seems useful. I just felt that players are getting to the point where they expect any character concept should be tolerated and that "nobody has the right to tell them how to make or play their character" (i have seen a player who says this often). I have a Stargate group at the moment, which was a D and D group before that (though i was a player then). One of our players constantly refuses to let anyone have authority over him and, at one point, his character simply walked off and did his own thing. In that instance, the GM let him get away with it (hence the problem remains). Now he is a player in my Stargate game, he has tried much the same thing, but i`ve given the group leader the authority to have him fired or to stop his XP until such time as he fits in. I have two players waiting for slots in the group, so i`m not fussed if he goes. When it came to the point where a perfectly rational, normal group, threatened to shoot him, i knew something needed to be done. All too often i`ve seen a breed of selfish player in groups who is prepared to walk out or sabotage the group to get his or her own way. I dont put up with that and i think other GM's need to take that stance too.
ChaosEvoker 11-05-04, 10:48 AM	Yes I've had these run ins myself and know what you mean. I'll be taking some of your suggestions. Thanks, I think everyone should read it. Btw has anyone heard from Student of the Mind?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-05-04, 03:29 PM	Btw has anyone heard from Student of the Mind? I think he's on vacation or just wasn't interested in the whole campaign set up thing. I sent him a private message yesterday, but haven't seen him online or received a responce. If I hear anything, I'll post it here. Thankyou Mordmorgan. *goes all silly and falls over*.*Blushes* You're very welcome ;) .
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-05-04, 06:00 PM	Chaos Evoker, please leave the artifact corner open. I like that thing, and many other foundations have them, so Orcy can shut up with his second-person talking about THAT. :P
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-05-04, 06:04 PM	Wait a moment, Shard of Suzail, they have a Stargate SG-1 RPG? :eek:
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-05-04, 08:11 PM	I`m glad it seems useful. I just felt that players are getting to the point where they expect any character concept should be tolerated and that "nobody has the right to tell them how to make or play their character" (i have seen a player who says this often). I have a Stargate group at the moment, which was a D and D group before that (though i was a player then). One of our players constantly refuses to let anyone have authority over him and, at one point, his character simply walked off and did his own thing. In that instance, the GM let him get away with it (hence the problem remains). Now he is a player in my Stargate game, he has tried much the same thing, but i`ve given the group leader the authority to have him fired or to stop his XP until such time as he fits in. I have two players waiting for slots in the group, so i`m not fussed if he goes. When it came to the point where a perfectly rational, normal group, threatened to shoot him, i knew something needed to be done. All too often i`ve seen a breed of selfish player in groups who is prepared to walk out or sabotage the group to get his or her own way. I dont put up with that and i think other GM's need to take that stance too. Orcy knows this kind of player well. He himself has had to deal with them a few times. Orcy recalls one player, who will remain nameless (as he posts here), that was rather... anti-group. He sat one battle out, standing against a wall, then ran past the other players when they killed the enemy and searched for treasure. Then there was another incident where he jumped into a hole and hid from a lich, leaving one player (as the others had been sleeping and were trapped behind an ice wall, to fight him. Leaping out at the last second for the kill, and treasure. Hes gotten much better since then. But sometimes players just refuse to work with the rest of the group. It can be very annoying. Orcy personally lets players do what they wish for the most part, but makes sure to have reactions to their actions. He remembers a player that decided to murder a few preists of Pelor... in a temple to Pelor. Then wondered why he was hunted down by a Paladin. (this same player actually ATTACKED another group member, since he was the fighter and figured he could do whatever he wanted because he was stronger, physically anyway). So yes, Orcy agrees that many players these days want to play something that will not work with a group. Then get mad when they're told they either cant play the character, or the character is killed because of his non-group oriented actions. Oh yes, and Dark Sun, play nice. Insulting comments and such arent allowed by the CoC ;)
Shard of Suzail 11-05-04, 08:22 PM	I feel like i have been given cyber roses *sighs contentedly*. Anyway, yes, there is a d20 Stargate, by AEG. It uses the spycraft engine and is really good. Lovely rule book and great supplements. I`m just recovering from a tiring nights gm'ing. As to Orcy, good to meet you. You seem unusual and interesting. It's sad to hear that your group has one of these troublesome players, but i`m sure you are the man to sort them out. I wouldnt argue with an orc. I dont know if i`m the prettiest girl in Cormyr, but i`m certainly the only Cleric of Chronepsis, to my knowledge. I`m probably the sexiest librarian in Cormyr, for sure.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-05-04, 08:35 PM	I`m probably the sexiest librarian in Cormyr, for sure. Now there's a broadsheet that'd sell out FAST! :dragon: I've had quite a few players who just didn't want to be part of the group. The worst one by far was a Cleric of Ezra (from Ravenloft). He got bored during an undead hunt and decided he could better be entertained by sneaking into a commoners house and chopping up a man. After stuffing the man into the toilet and (unsuccesfully) trying to "flush" him, he was shot by the man's wife. He then proceeded to complain that there was no way the woman could have heard him, even though he was jumping up and down on chopped up pieces of her husband screaming curses. Needless to say, he wasn't invited back. *Delivers cyber chocolate to Shard* Sorry, the store was out last night :D
Shard of Suzail 11-05-04, 08:44 PM	I like this foundation a lot. Proper gentlemen one and all. *Shares out some cyber chocolates with the foundation, but keeps the cherry tasting ones all for herself*
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-05-04, 08:49 PM	So, Shard, what's that Stargate RPG like? I really liked the movie, (but I'm not so keen on the TV show) and wanted to know where the game draws most of its influences. Also, what kinds of classes and skills are there?
Frostbite_Ravenheart 11-05-04, 08:53 PM	Chaos Evoker, please leave the artifact corner open. I like that thing, and many other foundations have them, so Orcy can shut up with his second-person talking about THAT. :P I hate to come over to your thread and tell you what to do but this is very imature and disrespectful. First off you should tell anyone to shut up but Orcy is the GM of these threads. Also get your facts straight. Some threads have another thread where they have collected all there posted information and put it in one thread for ease of use. However they did not create an "artifact" thread, then a thread about a specific topic and a members list thread. One last thing - Orcy likes to talk as his character would and most find it amusing and creative. -Frosty
Shard of Suzail 11-05-04, 09:29 PM	Well, it would be hard to summarise it all here. Suffice to say that it is very good. The game is very skills heavy and classes all get a good share of skill points. Lots of practical changes too, like making it half or full actions rather than move or attack actions. There are some nice classes, like the pointman, built around helping other players to make rolls, so you can play a good officer type. You have to be into the series, otherwise Spycraft is the one to play. Thats the same system but with a james bond or d20 modern type background. My stargate players were having a whale of a time today. They broke into an enemy storehouse and looted some plasma rifles that did 5d10 damage a shot. Meant that they could have a good battle with some enemies twice their level, on even terms. Firing one of those suckers, twice a round, is a tasty thing to do, i tell you. Hehe, phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range, i got the stats from D20 Terminator "Future Fate".
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-05-04, 10:50 PM	Sorry about that Orcy, but it is starting to get on my nerves, and for various reasons (I won't go into details), this hasn't been the best week for me, I've been pretty annoyed at various people at my school, and I guess I've been lookin' for a fight for the past three or four days. Again, sorry about that. :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-05-04, 10:56 PM	Actually, when it comes to Stargate, I'm the opposite of Mordmorgan. Like the show, not the movie. Well, each to their own. Anyways, THAT was a bit of a tangent... By the way, we aughta' talk to the WizO's. It's dumb if the only board we can have a campaign on is a board we can't have a game on. :confused:
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-05-04, 11:09 PM	Orcy would suppose speaking to the WizOs would be the best. As Orcy is not a WizO, he cant really help you on this. But, as stated, this board is not for adventures, there should be someplace you can set up.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-05-04, 11:31 PM	By the way, we aughta' talk to the WizO's. It's dumb if the only board we can have a campaign on is a board we can't have a game on. :confused: I don't think it's that you can't set up a game on those boards, I think it's just that ChaosEvoker didn't follow the procedure. I'm sure that if he reads the rules and notified the proper folks, it would have worked fine.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-05-04, 11:32 PM	Orcy's right - about individual campaigns. But, threadkeeper, if you revise your opening post, and create a Foundation with a Foundation brief, you are very welcome to stay. If I read this right, the course changes you'd need to make would be a. You couldn't DM a separate adventure here, that is independent of the forum, butyou can have a Foundation part of the world we are building. b. If you want to contribute to the game here at Guild House in "DM-style", yourself, we can make you a judge, where you can post as a Deity (but beware, you can't post millions of Diving Ranks posts, if you choose this option). c. So, if you go with a., all you need to do, is work with your posters to re-cut this Foundation's brief, and then interact with the other guilds and our High King (Lord Frosbite - our Great Sovereign). regards stav
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-05-04, 11:40 PM	In case Sil's post confuses you. Hes talking about the inter-foundation war games that are going on currently. You can read more about it on the metathread and such which shouldnt be too hard to find.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-06-04, 01:13 AM	As a foundation, are we required to participate in the inter-foundation war, or just encouraged?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 01:25 AM	As a foundation, are we required to participate in the inter-foundation war, or just encouraged? That's a cryptic question. What do you mean? What do you want?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-06-04, 01:28 AM	I know that a few of our members would rather not participate, but I was asked a little while ago whether or not we were required to, and had no answer.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 02:02 AM	Our forum is about a game we are building as a group. The Forum context, is a tailored context, designed to encourage: Between-Foundation collaboration Fraternity a variation of D&D that has a specific set of non-canon rules for Guilds with; A game purpose, goals and rewards. We have a judging panel, a High Kingship, and four kinds of Actions, those being normal i) PC actions as per Core rules, ii) Foundation Actions (think of these as "group" action), iii) Sovereign Actions (those of the High King) and iv) Divne Actions (Divine Ranks posts). I would like to repeat that you and your people are very very welcome to contribute to that game system. In fact, we would love you to join in. I would like to hear, on the thread, from the posters who would not like to join in. In all fairness, I would like the chance to address their resistance. Let's not put it as an "ultimatum" about whether or not you can post as a Game-Independent Foundation, until we talk to each other a bit more first. I think we may find there is a good ways you can enjoy yourselves here, and keep a good portion of your Campaign-ideas in tact. Posters of this Foundation - please come forth! Regards stav
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-06-04, 02:20 AM	Short answer that even Orcy can understand. No. You arent required to take part in the inter-foundation war. Sil, sometimes less is more ;)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 02:29 AM	I would still like to hear from the dissenters of this foundation, though, Orcy. As to "yes" or "no" - that's something for the Meta-Thread and for the group to decide, I think. I would like to see independents kept here, but I'm not sure how it will go down. Also, they can't change to an independent foundation, and keep the adventuring campaign parts. To keep the adventure elements, they're going to have to think about participating in the IFWG (Inter-Foundation War Games). regards stav
Tenzhi 11-06-04, 02:35 AM	Ah, but shouldn't they be able to have a Foundation here focussed around DMing strategies, house rules, and the like and still hold an adventure thread linked to it in another forum? (Mind you, I personally think a game full of DMs is a recipe for disaster, but there's no harm in trying, eh?)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 02:39 AM	Ah, but shouldn't they be able to have a Foundation here focussed around DMing strategies, house rules, and the like and still hold an adventure thread linked to it in another forum? (Mind you, I personally think a game full of DMs is a recipe for disaster, but there's no harm in trying, eh?) Yes, most definitely, Tenzh. @Foundation Members But what do the Members say about that? Is it in the spirit of your Guild? What are your worries? What do you and don't you like about it all..... I would like to add - it's really a great deal of fun -- the new Game Environment, you know......you could really make it heaps of fun for yourselves..... Hands you all Lembas Cookies :cookie:
ChaosEvoker 11-06-04, 08:56 AM	Well, I've gotten these PMs about people hesitant to join. Their first concern is the enormous catching up we would have to do in order to get in the loop of the IFWG. SEcondly, hwo could we participate using our Foundation's theme? I mean if we are all DMs can't we just say, "We win" and it happens? (This is only half a joke I really am curious as to how we could participate)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 09:08 AM	Well, I've gotten these PMs about people hesitant to join. Their first concern is the enormous catching up we would have to do in order to get in the loop of the IFWG. SEcondly, hwo could we participate using our Foundation's theme? I mean if we are all DMs can't we just say, "We win" and it happens? (This is only half a joke I really am curious as to how we could participate) I need to hear from them directly, either in PMs or on the thread. :) We're not psychos, who will mistreat you, you know Each of those problems you raised has a number of solutions. Could you spell out, in a paragraph the essential "spirit" of your campaign, and I *promise* to do my very best to integrate the ideas into the IFWG. Also - about the "catching up", we're actually discussing how to make it fair for newcomers right now..... Regards stav
Student Of The Mind 11-06-04, 12:02 PM	I need to hear from them directly, either in PMs or on the thread. :) We're not psychos, who will mistreat you, you know Each of those problems you raised has a number of solutions. Could you spell out, in a paragraph the essential "spirit" of your campaign, and I *promise* to do my very best to integrate the ideas into the IFWG. Also - about the "catching up", we're actually discussing how to make it fair for newcomers right now..... Regards stav My main reasons for not wanting to be part of this IFWG. 1. I do not post on this thread to share the ideas of my 'campaign', but actually post here to help others with their problems. If I wanted my campaign to be part of a world, I would take over the group I'm currently with and start as their DM. So to make it short...I'm here to help DM's with ideas and creative devices that can help enhance their game. 2. What point is there to being part of this IFGW? Are characters used that people have actually sat and played, or can anybody pull a 50th level munchkinhead out of their butt and start with him. I see no attachment that the players have to these characters, or whatever they will be using during this IFWG. People will not care about something if they dont have anything to lose. 3. How can a foundation or gathering of DM's be part of this IFWG anyways, a DM's job is to create the world around the characters and the only part they play is that of the NPC who make up the world. In this IFWG there are no NPC's and no need for an organization of DM's. 4. Why should we take part in something that has no worth? To be involved in something that has no benefit is rather useless, isnt it? 5. I dont have time to take part in something that has no benefit...Bragging rights are something I already have, and dont need to further my ammunition. It could be said that "fun" is the benefit that can be had with this IFWG, but why not go and actually game instead of sitting around a computer. Again, I dont have time to be part of a meaningless activity...Unless somebody can help me with my homework, but I doubt anybody would want to discuss the behavior of astronomical masses. Now I hope this was spelled out enough, and I will apologize now if my words seem harsh or rude. Being under the stress of work, women, and wondering can make even the toughest man a bit grumpy. :D Good gaming. If further explanation of my ranting is needed, feel free to PM
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-06-04, 12:17 PM	Yo, Student of the Mind, welcome back! Where ya been? As to these things about the IFGW, I'll go along with whatever Chaos Evoker thinks is best.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 12:28 PM	Ah, the voice of rashenss :) Look, it's not like that, SotM. I think that's the best way to put it. I also don't mind you having a grizzle. But, in all fairness, you can't say what we are until you know a little more. About "worth" - what a strange way to put it. How do you measure that and whose "worth" do you mean? It's a thing that means different things to different people. However, we do have goals, consequences, and game-balanced vision of our rules. We have a D&D basis, with real risks, consequences, rewards and game-punishments. It's not a game without a goal. But, about your other points - "can we discuss DM advice things as a Guild here"? The answer is "yes". "Can we be an independent campaign" "no". If you go the latter, you have to join in with the Game. Do you want ti run a campaign here? I need to know more about Artifact Corner, and I would like more details about other features of this thread.... Then, you may be surprised with what we find. All I ask is that you engage in a discussion here, with me, for a few posts - and let's see what happens. Regards stav (do you like or hate lembas? *winks*)
Student Of The Mind 11-06-04, 01:43 PM	Hey CotDS, thank you. I've been trying to keep the fiancee happy, the boss happy and my professors happy...So basically I've been putting myself through hell, except for the fiancee part. :) :devil: Ah, the voice of rashenss :) Look, it's not like that, SotM. I think that's the best way to put it. I also don't mind you having a grizzle. But, in all fairness, you can't say what we are until you know a little more. If you can talk fast enough, I might have time to listen. About "worth" - what a strange way to put it. How do you measure that and whose "worth" do you mean? It's a thing that means different things to different people. Lets not get philosophical. However, we do have goals, consequences, and game-balanced vision of our rules. We have a D&D basis, with real risks, consequences, rewards and game-punishments. It's not a game without a goal. Hmmm, still seems pointless. If I want to game I will wait until Sundays when I can sit down and roleplay. But, about your other points - "can we discuss DM advice things as a Guild here"? The answer is "yes". "Can we be an independent campaign" "no". If you go the latter, you have to join in with the Game. I'm not even gonna get into "independent campaign"...Because I'm not here for that aspect of this foundation. Do you want ti run a campaign here? I need to know more about Artifact Corner, and I would like more details about other features of this thread.... I have no comment on that thread, because I only post random memories that wonder through my grey matter. Then, you may be surprised with what we find. Huh? You might have lost me, but as of right now I dont really know where I am to begin with. All I ask is that you engage in a discussion here, with me, for a few posts - and let's see what happens. Um...Ok Regards stav (do you like or hate lembas? *winks*) I like lembas as much as I like vegamite (sp?) Good gaming. If my rambling insanity made no sense, I apologize. Feel free to PM me for clarification
ChaosEvoker 11-06-04, 02:48 PM	Look our being DMs is nto good for the IFWG. We aren't character's we are DMs. We coul just say "I use my infinate power to win" and it happens. Our individual campaign was a fun foundation-only thing to do. We have no interest in participating in the complicated mess that I have found the IFWG to be. I began trying to catch up, its far too much of a mesh of complication. We have no interest in participating. THank you for your interest in us.
Shard of Suzail 11-06-04, 03:32 PM	I`m not keen on the idea of this bizarre play by post game thing. If people want to do that as something seperate to this thread then fair enough. I was originally attracted here because it promised to be a forum in which GM's could gather together to make a resource pool of ideas for people to use in their games. I was also of the understanding that this was a place for GM's to chat and discuss their games, lives and issues. I don't see the need for this rank system. We are all GM's here and shiny buttons have no meaning for us. Some of us have won prizes, some have run for many years and some have worked with games companies. We dont need dice symbols to earn the respect from our fellows. I could have fifty dice and still come up with an idea that was ill thought out, likewise someone totally new may come up with a real gem. Ranks are intimidating and ultimately meaningless. They will only discourage people from joining and posting. *** Anyway, it is always best to speak from a position of strength. Thus, at the time of this posting, arrangements have already been made, in consultation with the Wizo's, for an official thread to be set up on the main boards that will allow GM's to pool their ideas and submissions. This will also give an official place for people to make submissions that fit the "flavour" of the month as set out by the Wizo's (such as the undead theme). However, this new thread will not be somewhere for GM's to meet up and generally share their experiences, or vent etc. Thus, the Dungeon master's foundation still has a valid function as a meeting place of like minds, or somewhere to work on ideas and discuss them before they are officially presented to the main submissions thread. So long as the DM Foundation remains such a friendly meeting place then all is well. This strange gaming idea should not get in the way of that original core ideal. There are many of us who do not see the need to roleplay online, if anything, we come here to get away from that immediate pressure and to chat or vent about our games. Further information will be posted in time, regarding the new submissions area.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-06-04, 03:59 PM	In Orcy's opinion, which would count here as he too is a GM of this forum. You can indeed stay and discuss DMing strategies and whatnot. Orcy believes that Sil is a bit confused as to the purpose of this thread. It is a foundation just like any other. Not a campaign. That has already been taken care of and moved to another section, or attempted to be moved. Any way, thats been taken care of, and they know they cannot run a campaign on these boards. The foundation war is not something we are going to force you into. You may join of your own free will. As for being DMs in it, no you wouldnt be. You could be judges, but that would mean you judge the other members and decide successes or failures and the like. You would not have ultimate power, you would just be another player if you chose to play. You would make a level 15 (Orcy believes) character and join in. While Orcy is not sure what role your foundation would play, Orcy knows you could find a place, Sil would be able to work that one out. Again, it is nothing you will be forced into. This is a foundation board, you may post as a foundation, do what any foundation would. Gather to discuss ideas as DM's, give tips for newer DMs and such. That is what a foundation is, not something that will be require to take part in a battle game with other foundations.
Kavu Overlord 11-06-04, 06:05 PM	I've been a DM for about a month, but did a LOT of research.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 08:34 PM	In Orcy's opinion, which would count here as he too is a GM of this forum. You can indeed stay and discuss DMing strategies and whatnot. Yes, as I have stated, upstream as well. *looks at Foundation posters* We are your GMs lads-n-ladies - Orcy, Finwe and Silmarien are your GMs (g-a-m-e Masters). Finwe is seldom here, and we've just nominated Anglar as a fourth. The reason we are *here* is for our Gaming environment. Orcy believes that Sil is a bit confused as to the purpose of this thread. Yes, I want reassurance (and have received it) that you are not campaigners, running an independent game, with dice, characters and players. You may join of your own free will. At this stage, this remains correct, Orcy. It may be that the Forum evolves, like the COre Colloseum, though, where our on-topic standards require participation. But - let's not pre-empt that. Remember, though, we have a responsibility for the Game Environment we have here. Again, returning to the purpose and worth of our Game (and you guyz can't have it both ways: you can't say "it's worthless" without knowing what it is and then "don't get philosophical" because you want to stop your ears to the thing you are criticising - i.e. Ranks are intimidating and ultimately meaningless. They will only discourage people from joining and posting. If ranks are meaningless, then so are D&D levels. So is the notion of a Celestial, Dragon, versus Orc, and likewise, so is also the notion of a Deity, a Lord, an Archwizard, a High Priest (and any other aspect of D&D that is about relative power). I could go on - Orcs are lesser "ranked" than ghouls, who are lesser ranked than (rattles off 1000 creatures in rank order). Like it or not, D&D is a hierarchical game, where the goal is to ascend in power, magic, wealth, and to make yourself a *legend* in-game. So, remember, if you criticise us, you criticise yourselves, because, essentially, the game *is* D&D - with some innovations in the Guild/Foundation stratum. DMs most certainly *do* have a place in the game, as Orcy has pointed out, as Judges (or possibly as something else - which could be brainstormed). In any case, as Judges, your powers would be two-fold You could post Divine Ranks posts onto threads (but sparingly. The GMs have veto - if the Divine Ranks posts are used, they must not disrupt or prematurely end the game, but as *good* DMs you'd know all about that. You'd know the difference between using NPC powers effectively versus ineffectively. You'd also get a brief from me/orcy/anglar, about the world, and the goals of the Deities - and you'd be making those contributions. You could judge interactions and assign the equivalent of Experience Points (Influence Points for Guilds). Now, I still want to know what Artifact Corner is, and how to find it. It sounds like it has some interesting materials in it. And, as I said, despite your rash complaints and grumbles, you people are very welcome to join in, and I think, DMs with lots of DMing experience as Deities (with a game-brief from your GMs) would greatly assist us all to have a really exciting adventure. After all, D&D is famous for bringing together people from all over the world, and that's what is so fantastic about the game. In that spirit, we think you would be great assets to the game. Regards stav (I'm glad you like vegemite. I had so much trouble finding it over seas, when I was abroad for a year. BTW, I've been to America no fewer than seven times, and have friends in a number of states all over the country). stav
Shard of Suzail 11-06-04, 10:34 PM	There seem to be several discussions going on here, its pretty confused. As far as i can see, we`ve got some strangers who are doing some kind of online gaming (silmarien), we have our founders, who have just proposed a new ranking system and our general members. Silmarien, i think a good chunk of us have no idea who you are or what you are doing here. I get the idea that, some of our people must have started some sort of online game which wasnt allowed and that you have come in here to slap them around a bit because you run that sort of thing in an official capacity. You want people to respond to you...but the ones who i think you want to respond were not involved in whatever has gone on before. As such, half of us were not really involved in this online game thing at all and are still trying to sort out simple things like who we are, what we want and if we should have a ranking system. I`m with orcy on this one, i think he is right when he says people are getting confused.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 10:45 PM	That's a much better post. Thank you for being good about it. Sorry for the confusion. There's method to my posts, but I know there's a lot of information in them. Please read them carefully. I'd like to know more about Artifact Corner. I want to know if you would be interested in having game authority, as Divine-Ranks posters - who would use their DM noggins to help make it exciting for other players. You would need to consult with the GMs though. In either case, you're welcome to stay, with an on-topic standard that is *not* an independent D&D adventure. This is a great foundation Regards stav
Dyne 11-06-04, 10:59 PM	If you will, let me add my two cents. :twocents: The Dungeon Masters Foundation could play a part in the Inter-Foundation Guild Wars without having to be Players and without adding more members to the Judging Panel. The game isn't just between Players, there are NPC's that the PC's interact with. The Dungeon Master's Foundation could control some of the NPC's and create challenges for the Players (such as Anglar's Drow Murders challenge). Artifact Corner I think is sorta like the Library thread that the Council of Archmages has to store it creations. It's a thread in the Guild House, and you should be able to find it on the first page of threads. The Guild House exists to house Foundations. The Foundations are designed to allow for a place where like-minded individuals can gather together and pool their ideas. Roleplaying is acceptable and even encouraged in some foundations. But, Foundations must be all-inclusive and accept anyone who wishes to become a member. Campaigns are not run here for several reasons: They don't belong in this forum. They don't include anyone who wishes to join (unless you want to accept anyone who wants to play, which could involve too many people). If anyone wants to know more about the Inter-Foundation War Games, check out the Inter-Foundation Wars/Games Discussion thread, and the Inter-Foundation Exchanges Meta-Thread. We still haven't worked out all the details of the IFWG, but we'll have a complete, clean set of rules and an FAQ posted soon.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-04, 11:16 PM	The Dungeon Masters Foundation could play a part in the Inter-Foundation Guild Wars without having to be Players and without adding more members to the Judging Panel. The game isn't just between Players, there are NPC's that the PC's interact with. The Dungeon Master's Foundation could control some of the NPC's and create challenges for the Players (such as Anglar's Drow Murders challenge). Dyne, you're really an angel sent to us, aren't you!! I *love* this idea. Artifact Corner I think is sorta like the Library thread that the Council of Archmages has to store it creations. It's a thread in the Guild House, and you should be able to find it on the first page of threads. Ta - I'll have a look. :) The rest of your post was also spot, on, and I'm very appreciative for the contribution. Regards stav
Dyne 11-06-04, 11:50 PM	Dyne, you're really an angel sent to us, aren't you!! I *love* this idea. :blush: I try to help when I can.
Tenzhi 11-06-04, 11:55 PM	People will not care about something if they dont have anything to lose. A DM has nothing to lose, but he generally still cares about his campaign world. Of course, there's an off chance that DMs aren't people... It could be said that "fun" is the benefit that can be had with this IFWG, but why not go and actually game instead of sitting around a computer. Obviously every person has different needs and expectations - some people may not have a readily available game aside from online, for instance. The main reason I'm involved is because I have several hours of work time to spare.
ChaosEvoker 11-07-04, 12:49 AM	Ok this place has gotten a confused mess, I feel my responsibility as the founder of it to clear it up: We were going to do an online independant RP thing, it didn't work out we aren't going ot do it. I'm not sure its a good idea anyway. When it didn't work out some subthreads got closed and for some in explicable reason their posts got relocated to here and the Artifact corner. I am still unsure why that is and hope to figure out some way to delete them since they just clog up the flow of the board. It was never my intention to divert so much from the point of this foundation which was what Shard said. This is a place for DMs to vent and share resources, and it has really gotten off topic. We have no interest in participating in the IFWG as a group, individuals can if they wish, but as a group we won't since many have objections. As for the ranking system, honestly, Shard that's the first complaint I've heard. if others share this sentiment please say so. We will gladly dispose of it if that is the main concensus. i intened it not to put members above other members but as a recognition, a thank you, for helping otu the foundation. If it offends or annoys please tell me. I think we really need to get back to the point this thread was intended for. With that in mind: let us do so immediately. So, anyone want campaign assistance?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-07-04, 02:52 AM	We were going to do an online independant RP thing, it didn't work out we aren't going ot do it. That's why your GMs are here. It remains my hope that you could develop those very same online RP things - as part of an overall Game Environment. It's strange to me, that you would seek to decline an offer to be part of the same opportunity you tried to set up anyway *confused* Threadkeeper - you will also find increased traffic on your thread by your contributions..... This is a place for DMs to vent and share resources Which is and remains a great idea. To your DMs: we need wise, wiley, and fun-spirited posters to take up positions in our Pantheon (all ye be gods here ;) )or to DM threads (like Dyne said). Your contributions would be a very valued contribution to our game, and you are warmly encouraged to join us - and to enrich the whole Guild-House forum, by making it a whole-community thing. However - we shall leave you to it, I think, enough said. So, anyone want campaign assistance? Yes, actually, I do. I would like to discuss ways of handling guilds and groups in large-scale campaigns with more than one DM operating at at time. That is, I'm looking at developing multi-DM campaign systems, and would greatly value your advice about it. That is, how should good DMing handle guild-to-guild interactions in large scale interactions in D&D? regards stav
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-07-04, 12:54 PM	Its not exactly ranks, its more of "I've done extra work to further the Foundation, so this is a sign of thanks". Thats how I see it. It's not like commanding officers or something.
ChaosEvoker 11-07-04, 07:28 PM	Chosen: That's what the system was intended to be like, but if people have objections i'll take it off. Sil: My suggestion to you would be to have either a small group of over-DMs who would settle inter-DM disagreements or one Over-DM who would do the same, the latter probably being the better more efficient choice. Or you coudl have a DM per Guild who would regulate and referee the actions in that guild and then other DMs who would run the battles between them and such. With that system you woudl still need an Overlord DM to make sure that the DMing process is going on fairly and reasonably. Does that help? CHAOS EVOKER OUT
Frostbite_Ravenheart 11-07-04, 09:15 PM	Sil: My suggestion to you would be to have either a small group of over-DMs who would settle inter-DM disagreements or one Over-DM who would do the same, the latter probably being the better more efficient choice. Or you coudl have a DM per Guild who would regulate and referee the actions in that guild and then other DMs who would run the battles between them and such. With that system you woudl still need an Overlord DM to make sure that the DMing process is going on fairly and reasonably. Does that help? We already have the Jude and GM thing worked out. I belive what the lady was trying to suggest that you could join the ranks of the gods. We already have three gods as we have determined that we three judges shall be gods but she suggesting that you can be non-god judges. A god in this game in like a god in dnd, -Frosty
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-04, 12:05 AM	Hi there guyz. a small group of over-DMs who would settle inter-DM disagreements or one Over-DM who would do the same, the latter probably being the better more efficient choice. Or you coudl have a DM per Guild who would regulate and referee the actions in that guild and then other DMs who would run the battles between them and such. With that system you woudl still need an Overlord DM to make sure that the DMing process is going on fairly and reasonably. Does that help? Now that ROCKS! 1. A "checks and balances" concept (your first part) - or - 2. Some active involvement with Guilds (as DMs - we'd need to check with threadkeepers about this one - they may resist it in that form....) .....*gets idea* what about 3. DMing NPC Guilds and Foundations - where - as all good DMs should - we'd "conspire" ;) with Anglar (and any active GM) and perhaps map out some *terrors* or *challenges* for the players to face. In this model, I would be strongly encouraging of your own ideas and inventiveness....... 4. or - Being a part of the Pantheon - as Divine Ranks Posters (in this model, you're essentially DMs. It could involve conspiring with GMs to set up some god-to-god dynamics, and you'd need followers and you'd try to get the mortals to do your Wills) Also - An on-topic request - What are the traps and tricks to consider in multi-dm gaming systems? How do you keep it interesting for both the DM and the players? regards stav
ChaosEvoker 11-08-04, 07:16 AM	AS far as traps and tricks are concerned I'd take a page from the old school days of massive 1st Edition games in college dorms and such. Allow player to set a trap for another foundation. E.G: A wizard's guild sets up a giant anti-psionics field in order to disrput psionics and such. If the players set the traps, the encounters evolve based on the creativity of the players
ChaosEvoker 11-08-04, 07:20 AM	I'd like to make a pull for our Artifact Corner, it needs more traffic. That would be a great pool of resources. Need a unique and cool magical item? Check out the Artifact Corner. Currently there aren't too many items, so if you get an item idea take the time to post it there. Also are there any other ideas for organized creation pools that someone would like to host? Creature creations, spell creations, NPC creations, there are tons of options so if anyone wishes to, go ahead.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-08-04, 09:04 AM	Orcy suggests if yer lookin for some info on creatures and stuff you should check out the amazing creators foundation. Bunch of different creations and such there.
Xen155 11-08-04, 11:28 AM	Ahhhh... its good to be back! I like to ask questions that take a large amount of discussion and boils it down to single word answers, so: Are we participating in the IFWG? If so, are we going to be these Diety Things(I like that idea :ayyyy!: )? What about my Artifact Corner, will we keep it? I really dont care who answers! OK i just looked at The Artifact Corner, My threads been Renamed and has all these unrelated posts in it!!!!!!!! WHAT HAPPENED!?!?!?!?!?!? :censored: :headexplo :banghead: :hoppingma
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-08-04, 12:06 PM	The posts that werent supposed to be on this forum, or should have been in this main thread. Meaning the DMF campaign discussion thread and the ranking system thread. Seem to have had their posts moved into your other two sections that would be allowed. So, if theres a problem, I suppose you should ask WizO Cat, since we GMs dont have the power to do something like that.
Rapida 11-08-04, 08:16 PM	How many gallons does a waterskin hold? Because character need to drink a gallon of water a day, and eat a pound of food, and I've never realized this.
Dyne 11-08-04, 09:22 PM	How many gallons does a waterskin hold? Because character need to drink a gallon of water a day, and eat a pound of food, and I've never realized this. Half a gallon. Look in the Player's Handbook under Equipment. Do characters really need to drink a gallon a day? I can't remember. As for food, I just give them Trail Rations (which are measured in Meals Per Day).
Rapida 11-08-04, 09:26 PM	I can't find it in PHB equipment, and I'm going by a gallon a day from out of the dmg page 304
Dyne 11-08-04, 09:32 PM	Hmmm. There's supposed to be a table that shows the different containers and how much they can store in them. I can't find it in the SRD, and I guess it's not in the 3.5 PHB (but I don't have one handy). But, I remember from 3.0 that a Waterskin holds one half gallon of liquid. Perhaps it changed in 3.5 (I'm not sure, I'm more used to 3.0).
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-08-04, 10:40 PM	I've always wondered: what exactly does a whetstone do? They have it't price on the eguipment table in the PH, but there is no entry saying what it does.
Dyne 11-08-04, 10:53 PM	A whetstone is for sharpening blades. Use it to keep your sword or tool sharp. There's no actual rules for when a blade becomes dull, so it's just there as a miscellaneous item and for flavor (like the different kinds of food, different types of inn services (poor, common, or good), and different types of clothing (unless your playing Forgotten Realms)).
ChaosEvoker 11-08-04, 11:10 PM	Just to Orcy: The point of the sub threads woudl be to post our own creations, others can pool from there, but that way we can post our own creations. Xen: No, No, Yes Water: A Gallon a day? that's quite alot. Regardless we don't really mess with food and water stuff in our campaigns. We kind of assume they have enough unless they get in desperate straights.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-09-04, 12:49 AM	Orcy isnt quite sure about your wording ChaosEvoker, he might be misunerstanding you. But from what it looks like, it seems you think Orcy was saying that the artifact corner should be here. That isnt the case. Orcy knows that one is alright, its the others that are already gone he was talking about. He was answering the question about why there were a lot of "random posts" on the DMF artifact corner thread.
ChaosEvoker 11-09-04, 07:07 AM	I think we have a misunderstanding I thought you were saying we didn't need other creation threads because there were other groups that did creations. I see now what you were talking about. So does anyone need some campaign help?
ChaosEvoker 11-10-04, 10:49 AM	So the foundation has slowed down (OVER 24 HOURS without a post!) so I'm hoping to speed it back up. How do you make dungeon crawls more interesting? I mean, my players need to work their way through a keep in order to obtain the Artifact within. So its basically a dungeon crawl but I want to make it more interesting. Side quests and such things. Just ideas to make it more interesting. Your input would be appreciated, specifics are welcome as well as general ideas. CHAOS EVOKER OUT
Student Of The Mind 11-10-04, 03:23 PM	So the foundation has slowed down (OVER 24 HOURS without a post!) so I'm hoping to speed it back up. How do you make dungeon crawls more interesting? I mean, my players need to work their way through a keep in order to obtain the Artifact within. So its basically a dungeon crawl but I want to make it more interesting. Side quests and such things. Just ideas to make it more interesting. Your input would be appreciated, specifics are welcome as well as general ideas. CHAOS EVOKER OUT Puzzles...Puzzles make everything interesting. Make sure the puzzles arent hard enough to frustrate the players, but hard enough to stump them for a while. Also puzzles that make the players believe there is great value for solving it will make things interesting in a dungeon crawl. Making the PC's and NPC's race for the artifact is a good way to get the blood pumping. :D Just a few rambling thoughts. Good gaming.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-10-04, 05:01 PM	An old enemy, who they have long forgotten (probably a wizard), could compete against them to get the Artifact first.
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-10-04, 06:24 PM	Hmm.. Orcy has a few ideas depending on yer players personalities. One Orcy thinks works well is this. Have someone come to the players, in need of help. When they go to help them (if they're good), or go because they get money (bad might swing for it). Then you have the NPC trap them inside the dungeon and laugh all evil like and whatnot. That feeling of Revenge or "we're doing this to teach that :censored: a lesson idea. That can usually get the players blood pumping. Orcy knows his players never fought harder than when they knew the woman who had done the above to them was in the dungeon or area somewhere.
Dyne 11-10-04, 07:16 PM	Traps. Really interesting ones. Traps add a feeling of caution to a game, and they can be particularly interesting during combat. Imagine the PC's trying to fight a group of monsters while avoiding arrows that randomly shoot out of the walls and blades that come up out of the floor. Pits and chasms can also add some interesting strategy to combat scenes. The environment is a very good tool to consider when trying to spice up your game.
Shard of Suzail 11-10-04, 07:53 PM	I think that the most important thing, when it comes to dungeons, is the history of the place. Consider the following points. 1. Who Built the dungeon? 2. Why did they build it, originally? 3. Is it still used for the same purpose today? 4. If not, who or what is using the area now? 5. What does the place look like? 6. What would a player discover if he researched it? 7. Which NPC's know about the dungeon? 8. Which NPC's know the players are going there? 9. How will those NPC's react to this? 10. What will happen to the dungeon when the PC's leave it? With a good background, its a lot easier to generate magical items, room descriptions and encounters. Dungeons always have some sort of reason to be there, even if they are just big tunnels made by purple worms. Take the following example, using the above method: My Dungeon: 1. Built in ancient times by a group of Drow explorers. 2. Effectively, the dungeon was a storehouse and staging ground. 3. The dungeon has been abandoned by the Drow, however. 4. Currently, the tunnels are used by spiders as a lair. 5. The inner area is dark stone, with attractive sculptures, all webbed. 6. There is local lore concerning possible Drow tunnels and Drow spider mounts. 7. The thieves guild knows of the tunnels, but regards them as risky to use. 8. The thieves guild know of the party's plans and are worried a stash may be found. 9. The thieves will attempt to move the stash contents somewhere else. 10. If the spider queen is slain, remaining spiders go on the rampage. Things to include: Drow artifacts, spiders and queen spider, thieves store plus thief guards, skilled guide with agenda, things stolen by Drow.
ChaosEvoker 11-11-04, 07:04 AM	Thanks that helps some. As far as my dungeon is concerned, here it goes: 1) An ancient Archmage of Netheril 2) It's a keep, he built it for a place to live and research 3) No, Netheril fell long ago 4) Various Monsters, the keep is huge, the shost of the Archmage still lingers 5) The keep is very worn, it looks like it shoudl have toppled but hasn't 6) Little to nothing, considering when it existed. 7) Elminster and a few otehr adventures, not too many. 8) Elminster 9) Elminster sent them there, I don't think he has a problem with it 10) Hard to say. The artifact at the top is a mythallar. I guess it despends on how they use it, if they figure out how.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-11-04, 05:24 PM	Just a quick question for all Forgotten Realms DMs: I'm thinking about using Semmemnon in a game, but I'm having trouble coming up with his long term goals. The FRCS says he's trying to make himself indispencible to the forces of good, but to what end? Is he trying to build an "adventurer" army to combat the Zhentarim in Darkhold? If so, why? He obviously can't take down Fzoul, and isn't welcome in the Black Network as long as Bane's Chosen is its leader. P.S. I posted this in the FR People & Places and haven't gotten anything back. I'm not looking for anything official, just opinions.
Shard of Suzail 11-11-04, 06:44 PM	Ok, from what you have put, chaosevoker, i think the fact that the place was used for research could be used in your favour. Research is a dangerous thing. Chances are there are going to be half written spells, dangerous half made items and perhaps even entire rooms that have strange magicks cast on them. Imagine walking through an experimental weapons lab in America, after it has been hit by a tornado and abandoned. Ooh, the potential for disaster and "traps" is huge. Things that strike me as fun to use, based on this: 1. Teleportation fields scattered around in different rooms, sometimes stable, sometimes not. 2. Time anomalies in rooms. Perhaps the players get stuck in a room over and over. 3. Creatures that seem one thing but are in fact another entirely. 4. A magic item that initially seems beneficial, but which becomes wildly unstable. 5. A magic item that is useful but constantly sparks and whistles. 6. Gateways to the elemental plane of fire that spill out monsters. 7. A dangerous creature trapped in a magical circle, it talks to the players. 8. Scrolls, upon which are written spells that are unique and unseen by the world. 9. Rooms that seem perfect in every way, as if the wizard just popped out for tea. 10. A vast scrying device that cannot be moved, but which proves handy. Overall, its a great time for you to make up spells and items that can be really amazing. You dont even have to worry about unbalancing the game, since they are experimental and can break down or fail at your whim. Still, if something seems right, you can leave it be. Playing around with a wizards lab can be really good fun if done right and really frightening also. Hmm... Eg: Item Idea: The Rod of Distortion. Built into an ornate staff, the rod of distortion is a glowing crimson cylinder about the length of a typical wand. Originally, the device was intended to generate a field of Ethereality, thus rendering its holder invulnerable to harm, so long as that harm came from the physical world. After some experimentation, however, it soon became clear that the device did not work as was intended and that it was particularly sensitive to eddies and flows from within the Ethereal plane. Thus, with some regret, its creator dumped it in the back rooms of his laboratory and moved on to better things. Most of the time, when used, the Rod does what it was intended for and grants the user a handsome 80 percent chance of being Ethereal and avoiding any local planar damage (fists, spells, blocks of stone). There is notable risk, however, that dangers in the Ethereal plane may threaten during this time, for they are given a corresponding 80 percent chance of inflicting harm should they so wish. Most would consider this a fair exchange, however. Unfortunately, every time the Rod is used, there is a cumulative ten percent chance that one of the following strange side effects occurs. Once this takes place, the device becomes visibly unstable, sparking and hissing, with surrounding reality buckling in an alarming fashion. Eventually, the device vanishes into the Ethereal plane for good and is never seen again. Possible instability effects (D10) 1. The user becomes highly magnetic and attracts all nearby metallic objects towards him at high velocity. This starts with insignificant things, like coins and moves all the way up to armoured characters and iron gates. Interestingly, the character remains where he stands and, considering he has an 80 percent chance of being ethereal, some items will hurtle through him and zoom out the other side of his square, like deadly metallic missiles. The next turn, of course, they turn round and come right back. This last ten rounds and starts small, becoming more and more pronounced as the turns move on. 2. The user becomes frozen in time for an hour. He has no awareness that time has passed. The time stop is genuine and he is thus completely invulnerable to events that take place in the world about him. So, should the roof collapse upon him, the rocks stop moving just above his head, also caught in the time bubble. Once the effect ends, the rocks would drop. 3. The user changes colour, gains one size level, forgets his highest skill and is considered a reptile for the purposes of race (though no other racial changes apply). This effect remains until a remove curse or similar spell is used. 4. The user becomes terribly afraid of spiders and will fail all will saves when confronted by spiders and arachnoid foes. Once the rod has vanished, numerous spiders, of a challenge level appropriate to the party, appear and try their best to eat his colleagues. Interestingly, they are no threat to him at all. 5. The user has a premonition of how it is that he will die. The next time he would be killed, he survives, as, after all, he isnt intended to die in that manner. Once this has happened though, fate steps in and rewrites the timeline, freeing him from his eventual doom and returning events to normal (though he still inexplicably escapes doom this one time). 6. The user and another party member change places on the battle map. Use the furthest player from the user for this effect. If this means that someone on another continent and he change places, then so be it. The effect is instant and there are no saves permitted. Those involved swap clothes and equipment carried. Should the user be ethereal when this happens, all items worn and carried fall through him onto the floor. 7. The user upsets the usual flow of space and time to such a degree that he attracts the attention of the Gods. He vanishes from his current location and appears in a suitable Godly realm. They, understandably, admonish him due to his antics and return him to his place of origin four hours later. 8. The user temporarily counts as being one square to the left for the next day. Anything that would affect him by virtue of striking his square misses, though seemingly for no reason. Anything that affects the square to his left (as determined by the gm) affects him. Thus, attacks on a nearby colleague may compare to his AC as well to see if a hit is scored, whereas direct hits from lightning will miraculously leave him unharmed. The gm is free to interpret this affect as he sees fit, but it should be beneficial to the player primarily. 9. The user sprouts fabulous rainbow wings. These, however, are purely an illusion and have no game effect apart from looking very spectacular. The wings may only be removed with a remove curse or similar spell. However, while the wings remain, the player is considered immune to all damage dealt by airborne threats, ranging from soaring dragons to thrown weapons. Disturbingly, any attempt by the player to hide the wings makes them grow larger and more impressive. It is possible for the illusionary wings to grow to a staggering hundred meter wingspan (they may pass through solid objects without incident). 10. The user is temporarily cloned and an exact copy of him appears. The double has duplicate equipment, even where such a thing may not usually be allowed. The gm controls the new addition to the party and he or she is just as kind or ill tempered as the original, even their memories are the same. Sadly, each hour the doubles remain alive costs them each a point of permanent CON. Should one die, however, all the CON is returned as they both return to being one person. Should both die at once, then both die.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-11-04, 08:48 PM	Chaos Evoker, here's a possible idea to annoy them when they get back out. Perhaps in some way the mythallar has been corrupted by the Netherilian's ghost. Maybe despite his vast knowledge, Elminster didn't know what had happened to it. Or perhaps it wasn't the real Elminster. I always try to think of what happens after the PC's gain an artifact or raid an ancient site, and how it can be manipulated to further the story-line. Shard: Holy crud...
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-12-04, 03:39 AM	Shard, how long did it take you to come up with those ideas???
ChaosEvoker 11-12-04, 12:01 PM	Shard that's amazing! I may have to use that, if you could: duplicate that in the artifact corner
Rapida 11-14-04, 11:12 PM	Got some bad news, my campaign died. My players kind of gave up with their old characters. So now we have restarted with a balanced group and everybody playing with what they want. I made them choose a race out of the phb and roll 5d6 stats, since my campaigns are quite combat oriented. Anyway, I need some help with a new campaign based in forgotten realms, nothing has been done so far so I need ideals. I also need a good reason that they want betray each other like last time, and they won't lie to each other for treasure. So anyway, I think we are gonna have a paladin (human?), a (human?) wizard, a gnome favored soul, and some kind of thief. So I need a good place for the campaign to be based and I would like some suggestions for plots and such, I have the city of the spider queen module for much later. Oh and btw they are level 2....
Dyne 11-15-04, 12:24 AM	Got some bad news, my campaign died. My players kind of gave up with their old characters. I've had that happen to me before. If you want the party to stick together, give them a reason to. Paladins HAVE to act Good because it is a requirement of their class. If they betray someone or lie about treasure, they are subject to consequences. Deities have been known to deny Paladins assistance when they violate their code of conduct. Meaning, no spells, no special abilities, no mount. You can make the consequences less severe, depending on the offense. If a group needs reason to work together, design the adventures and encounters in such a way that they NEED to work together just to survive. One of the oldest DM tricks is to let the Players harm themselves (really gets them to learn). Design encounters that are specific to each character: monsters for the Paladin to fight, locks and traps for the thief to disarm, and various things for the Wizard (sorry, don't know what a Favored Soul is). If you start throwing really nasty traps at the PC's, they won't be able to survive them without the help and respect of the Thief. Toss some nasty evil baddies at them and they'll rely on the Paladin's special abilities for fighting evil. The characters need to trust and respect each other to work together. Designing encounters and adventures that force the PC's to either work together or die encourage comeraderie and build trust. Of course, you could always start docking them XP when they cheat each other. :D Also, make sure the PLAYERS respect each other. If the people controlling the characters hate each other, it's ridiculously hard to get them to work together.
Student Of The Mind 11-15-04, 01:18 AM	I've had that happen to me before. If you want the party to stick together, give them a reason to. Paladins HAVE to act Good because it is a requirement of their class. If they betray someone or lie about treasure, they are subject to consequences. Deities have been known to deny Paladins assistance when they violate their code of conduct. Meaning, no spells, no special abilities, no mount. You can make the consequences less severe, depending on the offense. If a group needs reason to work together, design the adventures and encounters in such a way that they NEED to work together just to survive. One of the oldest DM tricks is to let the Players harm themselves (really gets them to learn). Design encounters that are specific to each character: monsters for the Paladin to fight, locks and traps for the thief to disarm, and various things for the Wizard (sorry, don't know what a Favored Soul is). If you start throwing really nasty traps at the PC's, they won't be able to survive them without the help and respect of the Thief. Toss some nasty evil baddies at them and they'll rely on the Paladin's special abilities for fighting evil. The characters need to trust and respect each other to work together. Designing encounters and adventures that force the PC's to either work together or die encourage comeraderie and build trust. Of course, you could always start docking them XP when they cheat each other. :D Also, make sure the PLAYERS respect each other. If the people controlling the characters hate each other, it's ridiculously hard to get them to work together. Great gems of knowledge, Dyne.
ChaosEvoker 11-15-04, 07:14 AM	Favored Soul....never heard of it. Anyway, yeah Dyne's got the knowledge you need. AS far as your campaign: What kind of campaign are you looking for?
Rapida 11-15-04, 11:38 AM	favored soul is a spontaneous cleric basicallly
Shard of Suzail 11-15-04, 04:45 PM	You should set your game in Suzail. It`s a great city and also my character's home. Shard runs the Library of the war wizard house L`vel. I dont mind her being used as a plot device or npc )
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-15-04, 05:19 PM	As for plot, I never start out with a main villain or NPC in mind. I always do a bunch of random encounters and see how it evolves: how the PC's interact, how they are played, who they have fights with and who they befriend. Then I make a main villain, and usually introduce them in a way that looks like a random encounter, but is really a plot starter. The chief drow lieutenant for the villainous had his humble beginnings as a random encounter in which they had to stop him from killing a village of elves and turning them into zombies (he's a necromancer). When saw him next and figured out who he was they just went "not that son of a ***** again!"
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-15-04, 05:21 PM	Anybody else?
Rapida 11-15-04, 06:39 PM	Any ideals for ways to get good party unity? Maybe some quest or something so they aren't thrown together.
Dyne 11-15-04, 07:19 PM	Any ideals for ways to get good party unity? Maybe some quest or something so they aren't thrown together. I gave some suggestions for this in my post.
Aramar the Black 11-15-04, 07:48 PM	Any ideals for ways to get good party unity? Maybe some quest or something so they aren't thrown together. Ideals or Ideas? And not thrown together, what exactly do you mean by that? Somethings that makes use of the strengths of the individuals, and some challlange, whether it be a villian, puzzle, or trap, that requires everybody, and shows them that they must relie on unity to pass some challenges in life, As for exact ideas to go with the above, I'm not sure.
Rapida 11-15-04, 10:10 PM	Sorry I wasn't clear, I mean before they were a group of strangers traveling together without a real reason to do so. They didn't even like each other, I was wondering what other DMs do to get the party to be a unified group instead of individuals traveling together. I dont know how else to put it, uhh so I'll try to elaborate if you need me to.
ChaosEvoker 11-16-04, 07:10 AM	I might suggest that you put them in a situation where they MUST stay together or they will die. Also I'd put in some encounters where there is mortal danger for a specific character that woudl require a different character to save him. That way there is a feeling of bonding because, after all, he saved my life!
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-16-04, 04:02 PM	Why don't you make them figure out why they're together. I'm really tired of PCs who think the DM has to do all the work.
Rapida 11-16-04, 04:35 PM	Why don't you make them figure out why they're together. I'm really tired of PCs who think the DM has to do all the work. Because if I do that the best reason is his a real person so I should choose him, usually with some weak in character reason to say that.
ChaosEvoker 11-16-04, 07:03 PM	Yeha I have to go with Mordmorgan on this one. But see if you can create an event that ties them together if they absolutely won't figure it out themselves.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-16-04, 11:27 PM	I'm sorry your players lack imagination. Try offering a reward (like 100 XP, or max starting gold) for a believable reason for the party to get together. Each PC has to create a reason or describe the circumstances which led to him/her joining the party. Tell them that if someone in the party can't come up with a reason to join, the other PCs will be allowed to create a reason and take the reward too.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-16-04, 11:29 PM	If that doesn't work, you could always take them on a field trip to see a group of LARPers (Live Action Role Players) playing Vampire. After five minutes of that they'll agree to play in character as long as you never make them sit through that again.
Student Of The Mind 11-16-04, 11:51 PM	If that doesn't work, you could always take them on a field trip to see a group of LARPers (Live Action Role Players) playing Vampire. After five minutes of that they'll agree to play in character as long as you never make them sit through that again. Repressed memories, Mordmorgan? :D Do they make you :twitch: ? Good gaming.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-17-04, 12:44 AM	I have to admit, I did play Vampire once ( :gah: don't hate me :gah: ). My destructive streak couldn't be sated by that game. I'm not usually one of those players who goes out of his way to ruin a game, but that time I felt that the game needed a few hundred pounds of high explosives. I ended up dying in the first session, but only after creating three large craters in Chicago (one was my apartment, which was packed floor to ceiling with C4, one was the downtown area which had a run-in with a large plane packed with C4 and Napalm [this was pre-911 in the states], and the third was where I was when they shot me [naturally, I was also packed with 45 lb. of C4]). Good times :D . I vowed never to play that game again. I like my D&D, and I like to be the bad guy (what DM doesn't?).
Xen155 11-17-04, 11:37 AM	The Dm as the Bad guy, players sometimes think that we are against them but were are imaptial in everything ;)
Gurney Halleck 11-17-04, 01:38 PM	Sorry, moving this post to the PCF. Mix up, sorry
Xen155 11-17-04, 01:40 PM	LOL, Gurney Halleck
ChaosEvoker 11-17-04, 10:02 PM	Yeah, I like the Book of Challenges's take on the DM's role. The beggining paragraph is great. Anyway, i liek DMing becuase you have ot be able to think on your toes and constantly adapt. It's a challenge. Though I have a good set of players, who can get creative in battle, so I have to make challenges pretty creative to match. Especially our wizard. One of our fighters is in physics and our wizard put a tenser's foating disk in front of a mounted assasin charging on his horse. After some quick calculations, the horse broke through the disk, but it's legs were broken throwing the rider off the horse. Very creative. I gues that was all to say: I like DMing cuase I like it when the players take a heavy sigh when its over. The best challenges are the near death ones, where they survive by the skin of their teeth.
Xen155 11-18-04, 12:49 AM	HERE! HERE! I holdheartedly agree with Evoker on this matter. A Tenser's Floating disc infront of a horse....... BRILLIANT! Its always satifactory, for DMs as much as players, to come close to the edge in a harrowing encounter and squeez your way through in some creative manner. thats why being a Wizard is so great!
ChaosEvoker 11-18-04, 07:14 AM	I holdheartedly agree with Evoker on this matter. A Tenser's Floating disc infront of a horse....... BRILLIANT! Ha ha ha....come come now, no self glorification. :P Anyways, do you guys find Epic Level campaigns or Lower Level campaigns easier to write? Myself, I find epic level campaigns to be easier because you have more stuff to work with and you can get more creative.
Xen155 11-18-04, 11:25 AM	Hmmmm... an excellent question, it could easly go both ways, but i have to say Epic, just because the characters are so resilent, you can really have fun messing with Epic level characters you dont have to worry to much about killing.
ChaosEvoker 11-18-04, 11:28 AM	True but if the challenges are too easy, the PCs, and the DM really, get bored. (Yes I realize I'm arguing against a position I hold. I like palying devil's advocate :devil: )
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-18-04, 06:34 PM	My main problem is that my players aren't creative. They'll try tactics in combat, but refuse to do something original, and it really annoys me. I want them to do something that isn't an action that is specifically called for, like throwing tables and using terrain. I'm waiting for them to figure out that a great way for combating evil would be something like forcing a Helm of Opposite Alignment onto a demon's head. Imagine a lawful good Balor or Hezrou! But the problem I find with being a DM isn't DMing, but it's when I need to be a PC. Even though all theplayers have been playing almost as long as me, I know the rules much better. Also because none of them are original, when they DM they try to have enemies use tactics that are downright stupid, or have impossible to beat monsters. And their plots are often easily foiled. One time I was part of a level 2 party and the DM, deciding he didn't want to give our party a chance to escape from captivity, ended up sendin a pair of iron golems after us, even though the places main boss was a level 4 human fighter. it may sound like I'm ranting, but to me DMing ruins the fun of being a PC.
Student Of The Mind 11-18-04, 07:15 PM	My main problem is that my players aren't creative. They'll try tactics in combat, but refuse to do something original, and it really annoys me. I want them to do something that isn't an action that is specifically called for, like throwing tables and using terrain. I'm waiting for them to figure out that a great way for combating evil would be something like forcing a Helm of Opposite Alignment onto a demon's head. Imagine a lawful good Balor or Hezrou! But the problem I find with being a DM isn't DMing, but it's when I need to be a PC. Even though all theplayers have been playing almost as long as me, I know the rules much better. Also because none of them are original, when they DM they try to have enemies use tactics that are downright stupid, or have impossible to beat monsters. And their plots are often easily foiled. One time I was part of a level 2 party and the DM, deciding he didn't want to give our party a chance to escape from captivity, ended up sendin a pair of iron golems after us, even though the places main boss was a level 4 human fighter. it may sound like I'm ranting, but to me DMing ruins the fun of being a PC. I know what you mean, CotDS! I am currently a PC, which is a drastic switch for me, and I find myself getting irritated with the other players because they have no strategy. Even if I suggest strategy they dont use it, and I've tried my hardest not to find fault with the DM, but it's hard to avoid it when some things dont add up...Like a group of BBEG's going ethereal by touching a phase spider, now I know it's his game and I understand that he is trying to challenge the group, but I have not found where in the books it says that passengers can be taken along...Under the phase spider or ethereal jaunt. As I sit there and shake my head, I cant wait to get my turn as the DM...I know not everybody will like my style of gaming, but I will get to sit in a seat comfortable to me. Okay I was ranting...Yeah, definitely ranting. As for the strategy of your players, trap them in a place where they have to use strategy...Terrain, obsticles, and even the corner of walls can be used...And if you fling a web back behind them so they cant run, they will be forced to use the things you have given. If they see the use of these things as beneficial then the experiment worked...But they could see it as a "tough love" situation. Anyways I'll stop my rambling insanity...Hope things work out for you. Good gaming.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-18-04, 11:34 PM	Players always think DMing is easier than it is. On the 30th anniversary day, we all went up to the local hobby store and played the games they had set up. Afterward, one of the players complained that my missions were never that in depth (even thouugh I'm one person making it all up on the fly against a group of 30 people writing for a month). I then suggested he try DMing his own campaign. His first mission made no sense, bombed, and the playersultimately screwed his plans quite easily. Afterwards he apologized to me and admitted he'd had no idea what the **** he was doing. Why are the players always so **** cocky?
Student Of The Mind 11-19-04, 12:47 AM	Players always think DMing is easier than it is. On the 30th anniversary day, we all went up to the local hobby store and played the games they had set up. Afterward, one of the players complained that my missions were never that in depth (even thouugh I'm one person making it all up on the fly against a group of 30 people writing for a month). I then suggested he try DMing his own campaign. His first mission made no sense, bombed, and the playersultimately screwed his plans quite easily. Afterwards he apologized to me and admitted he'd had no idea what the **** he was doing. Why are the players always so **** cocky? :D Players never realize how much work goes into games, and when they actually sit down to begin a campaign they find a group of players starring them right in the face expecting to be entertained and challenged...When this happens they find it's much more difficult than they first planned. I'm surprised the player actually took up the challenge of DMing, many cower and cant get out of their comfort zone...Which is behind the facade of a character. As for the players being so **** cocky...It's what makes them players, they need to be cocky towards a DM. They need to be cocky, or they wont last long as confident players...And they will second guess themselves and never rmake any decisions during the game. Then as a DM you get to sit there and pull out your hair while they thumb their...Okay I'll stop there. Anyways, if they think they can do better, let them try...Tell them to put their dice where their mouth is and see how well if they can enterain you. Alright I'll stop my rambling insanity now...I forgot where I was going and my CRS is kicking in again. Good gaming!
ChaosEvoker 11-19-04, 07:18 AM	Yeah, I really like DMing, more than playing. We had a couple of players who had never DMed. Early on in their playing career, we had them get behind the screen. Once that happened, there was alot more respect for anyone who was behind the screen. I might suggest having all your players try it once, it does help. (Though it never removes the players' cockyness)
Lady Rolindin 11-19-04, 06:24 PM	This is a organization that I would like to join, I like the ideal of this kind of organization. I would like to find dwarf organization too, if any body knows of any that would help. Good place to get answersd and run ideals by other dm's :)
Xen155 11-19-04, 06:38 PM	Well lady, to my knowledge there are no ACTIVE dwarven foundations.
Student Of The Mind 11-19-04, 06:53 PM	This is a organization that I would like to join, I like the ideal of this kind of organization. I would like to find dwarf organization too, if any body knows of any that would help. Good place to get answersd and run ideals by other dm's :) If you find a dwarven foundation or create one...Let me know please. Dwarves kick far too much ***! Good gaming!
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-19-04, 07:08 PM	Check Orcy's organization compendium. There is a dwarven foundation there. You could start it back up with a post or two if you would like. Orcy wouldnt mind having the lil buggers back around.
Xen155 11-19-04, 07:25 PM	Carefull ORCY your sounding dangerously close to being civil with a dwarf. :)
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-19-04, 09:10 PM	Has anyone else noticed this thread has grown HUGE?! :D :D
Xen155 11-19-04, 09:40 PM	you know *looks around* your friggen right :eek:
Student Of The Mind 11-19-04, 10:13 PM	Roughly 300 posts in 24 days...Nah! Come on that's not cruising, course 3600 posts in a year is a pretty good number. :thinks: Good gaming!
Dyne 11-19-04, 10:19 PM	Has anyone else noticed this thread has grown HUGE?! This thread has been growing very rapidly since it was started. It was hard for me to keep up at first.
DngnMstrBailey 11-19-04, 10:33 PM	Hey, that sounds like fun. I'd like to join up. I've been playing D&D, in one form or another, since 1980. I still have several OD&D box sets and dungeon modules, as well as manuals and modules for several dungeons in both 1st and 2nd ed. Advanced D&D.
ChaosEvoker 11-20-04, 12:01 AM	Lady Rolindin and DngnMstrBailey welcome to the DMF, I am your beloved Thread Keeper. Yeah this has grown really fast considering its still pretty new. I mean we are larger than alot of other Foundations already and they have been here for years! Impressive. I hope it continues at this pace. @DngnMstrBailey Have you played any 3.0 or 3.5?
ChaosEvoker 11-20-04, 12:01 AM	Hmm somehow the above post got duplicated, Idk how so please ignore this, and continue....
Xen155 11-20-04, 12:14 AM	More to the fold, good...good.
Xen155 11-20-04, 12:32 AM	What does everybody think ABOUT THIS Skygge created by Droga
DngnMstrBailey 11-20-04, 08:11 AM	To Chaos evoker, Nope. I have so far steadfastly refused to have anything to do with 3.0 or 3.5. I have sevral hundred dollars in manuals for 1st and 2nd ed. and don't feel like duplicating the process again. Not to mention that, having briefly gone through the 3.5 PHB, I thought that it was a step backward. Seperate mage classes, still no half orcs (my fav demi-human race). Nah. Not for me.
Xen155 11-20-04, 11:38 AM	You can play as Half-orcs in 3.0 & 3.5, did you look in the Races chapter
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-20-04, 12:22 PM	Yeah, half-orcs are now one of the default PC races in the PH. And you can still play a standard mage, but you can specalize if you are one of those mages who prefers one branch of casting. I prefer the sorcerer myself. :rolleyes:
Xen155 11-20-04, 01:19 PM	The sorceror. My freind, they are so limited!
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-20-04, 01:27 PM	The sorceror. My freind, they are so limited! Yes, and yet they still manage to be so friggin' powerful. There are usually a few spells I cast often, and a few I never cast. So I just get to spontaneous cast my favorites all the time. And if I don't know a spell, I can carry around a scroll or wand, or I can use the rules in the DMG for learning sorcerer spells. That and I always use drow female sorceresses :D :D . And when I DM the PC's don't have to know what spells their enemy knows :D :D :D .
Xen155 11-20-04, 01:32 PM	You do make good points Chosen, but thats whats so good about wizards, if you have certine spells you never cast, then just don't prepare them. I really never looked into why Sorcerors manage to keep up with Wizards. Of course Sorc CAN be much beter at combat than a Wiz_O.... I... mean....Wizard <_< >_>
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-20-04, 01:43 PM	Yeah, suicidal as it may sound, I've never played a hang-in-the-back sorcerer. My sorcerers all have a habit of going melee with a greatsword and several billion beaf-up spells. :D Then, when all, nearby enemies are gone, fire-ball the next bunch then charge in. It's strangly effective...
Xen155 11-20-04, 01:58 PM	:heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee :heehee How great a sight that would be!
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-20-04, 02:06 PM	The opportunities I have as a PC are far from typical. The strangest was when my drow sorceress spent an entire battle with demons sitting in the back playing jazz trombone. :D :D
Xen155 11-20-04, 03:58 PM	That must have been an intresting Dm
Lady Rolindin 11-20-04, 07:54 PM	I have been looking at the dm help threads, that's where I remember seeing one of the dwarven foundaitions. It will take some time to find the one's though. As for my history i having playing since the early seventys and still remember the first Grayhawk book six by eight inches I fI remember right,((I might have to dig it out, it has good stats for playes for size of chartors. Women espaescally, iy helps to know your bust size when playing a female pc. how much sticks in front of you.) My last dwarf mage Is Rolindin and is old played her a long time, since she is the chosen of the libaries. Has been an Archmage for some time now, like to use her as a npc now. Does any one still remenber the Snow elves and their socity. I can't find my issue of the dragon any more, but remember the issue and have made some cahages in my realms using the princapal to make human and half elves commities. They help to take care of female chartors when they decide to start a family. :)
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-20-04, 09:59 PM	Ugh! Finally some free time. As for the strategy of your players, trap them in a place where they have to use strategy...Terrain, obsticles, and even the corner of walls can be used...And if you fling a web back behind them so they cant run, they will be forced to use the things you have given. If they see the use of these things as beneficial then the experiment worked...But they could see it as a "tough love" situation. Anyways I'll stop my rambling insanity...Hope things work out for you. I know STotM has some good intentions, but for truely lack-luster PCs, this tactic will likely kill them all off. To DngnMstrBailey: 3.0 and 3.5 are so much better than 2ed as far as game mechanics go. Everything is more simple, and best of all, NO MORE THAC0!
Xen155 11-20-04, 10:16 PM	Woot!!!!!!! NO MORE THACO!!!!!!!
Student Of The Mind 11-20-04, 10:44 PM	I know STotM has some good intentions, but for truely lack-luster PCs, this tactic will likely kill them all off. Oh that's right! I forgot you're not supposed to kill off the party! Damnit it's been too long since I've been behind the screen! :sniffle: If your players are really lack-luster then you need a different approach. Sit them down and smack the :censored: out of them! :D Or maybe get them involved in large scale battles, where they need to make strategic decisions. Of course getting characters killed does build the urgency of learning tactics to help keep them alive. Tough love baby, tough love! :D To DngnMstrBailey: 3.0 and 3.5 are so much better than 2ed as far as game mechanics go. Everything is more simple, and best of all, NO MORE THAC0! Yes the rules and setup in 3.0/3.5 is better in my opinion, but its really just the same rules reversed in mathematics. The feel of 2nd AD&D is better, but it really depends on the DM and of course the players. :thinks: I know I wanted to ramble on about this, but my CRS kicked in again. Good gaming.
Droga 11-20-04, 10:54 PM	Dwarf Foundation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=322403) I see you've been asking about a dwarf foundation, I don't know if you noticed but theres one right in Orcy's organization compendium. Here's a link directly to the dwarf foundation.
DngnMstrBailey 11-20-04, 10:57 PM	I geuss that I should have given the 3.0 PHB a more lengthy perussal. Maybe a couple of days instead of about 5 min. But still? And, obviously, I never gave the race section too much of a look either, or I would have noticed 1/2 orcs. And Dwarf Mages??? Abomination!!! Just what I need, another footlocker full of D&D books. I have this strange fondness for 1/2 orcs. Always have. My very first character was 1/2 orc. Strangely enough, everytime that I take one of those "What character are you?" tests (I've taken three), I come up a 1/2 orc fighter, either true neutral or neutral good. And once, a barbarian 1/2 orc fighter. Hmmm! just because I don't like people....
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-20-04, 11:13 PM	Just what I need, another footlocker full of D&D books. I've got 2 closets full of old D&D stuff (including many of the books I've replaced from 3.0 in the upgrade. Strangely enough, everytime that I take one of those "What character are you?" tests (I've taken three), I come up a 1/2 orc fighter, either true neutral or neutral good. And once, a barbarian 1/2 orc fighter. I always end up a neutral human rogue. Hmmm! just because I don't like people.... I don't either, just thier gold :D
Xen155 11-20-04, 11:15 PM	You know, I never did like tjose tests. the last one i took made me a LE Dwarf Wizard. RADICULUS
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-20-04, 11:18 PM	Oh that's right! I forgot you're not supposed to kill off the party! You're not supposed to (look like you're) do(ing) it on purpose. Damnit it's been too long since I've been behind the screen! :sniffle: If your players are really lack-luster then you need a different approach. Sit them down and smack the :censored: out of them! Electroshock! *Walks into Dwarf Foundation, looks around, runs out!* So...many...bearded...ladies! *Shudder*
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-20-04, 11:19 PM	On a side note, Where's Shard? I miss her :weep:
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-20-04, 11:22 PM	That thing put me as a LG gnome Paladin! what the ****?! I hate paladins! And I'm more like chaotic neutral! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Xen155 11-20-04, 11:25 PM	:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :heehee :heehee :heehee :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-20-04, 11:26 PM	That must have been an intresting Dm No the Pc's were fighting demons, and the sorceress was in the back playing trombone. The demons weren't. Actually the other PC's started sreamin' at her, but she went write on playing. :D
Xen155 11-20-04, 11:32 PM	You know what.....wow. Has anyone heard of the Amber Chronicals or read the Dune Series?
Dyne 11-20-04, 11:33 PM	What does everybody think ABOUT THIS Skygge created by Droga I know I'm a bit behind, but let me answer this question real quick. Actually, I don't thing the Skygge are overpowered. He looks very powerful, and he is, but basically all he's good at is combat. His racial ability adjustments are high, but it doesn't look like anyone has run them through an LA calculator, so we can't really tell. All I have to say is show up to the fight between Droga and my new character, Helm Dundragon. I will prove that there are bigger fish in the sea.
Xen155 11-20-04, 11:34 PM	I would miss it for the world, but I defenintly intend to see the Rightous A*% kicking!
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-20-04, 11:36 PM	You know what.....wow. Has anyone heard of the Amber Chronicals or read the Dune Series? Amber Chronicals? No. Dune? All the way up to God Emperor of Dune. I'm about halfway through and I can't bring myself to finish it (boring, but that's just my opinion).
Student Of The Mind 11-20-04, 11:37 PM	Electroshock! It doesnt work anymore! Their most powerful machine just makes me :twitch: now...
Xen155 11-20-04, 11:39 PM	Amber Chronicals? No. Dune? All the way up to God Emperor of Dune. I'm about halfway through and I can't bring myself to finish it (boring, but that's just my opinion). SKIP IT, i know just what you mean. Read Brian's stuff.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-20-04, 11:39 PM	It doesnt work anymore! Their most powerful machine just makes me :twitch: now... Maybe you're not attatching it to the right bits :behold:
Dyne 11-20-04, 11:41 PM	By-the-way, I've only taken two of those character tests. One put me as a LG Human Paladin, another put me as an Elf Sorcerer. I don't really get the second one, 'cause I always play a Wizard, not a Sorcerer.
Xen155 11-20-04, 11:41 PM	AMEN! I agree, Wizard all the way!
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-20-04, 11:45 PM	Sorcerers are just wizards with training wheels. I always have new players (those who haven't played before), play sorcs instead of wizards.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-20-04, 11:46 PM	Grrrrrrr... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Let's here it for spontaneous casting, the true essence of chaos! Sorcerers!
Xen155 11-20-04, 11:50 PM	The unlimited options of the wizard are supirior.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-20-04, 11:58 PM	It's more the unlimited number of spells the wizard can choose from. This allows for more flexibility as long as the wizard has some time to figure out what's going to happen tomorrow (divinations, anyone?). The sorc is really good in ambushes, but not much else. Yeah, it's nice to be able to use your metamagic whenever you want, but you can't use Quicken Spell. I really like the flavor of the Sorc, and if you're careful with your feat selection, you could make a fantastic Sorc that's fun to play. But the down side is, if you're looking for sheer power, the wizard wins out almost any time. Although, the new Draconic feats in Complete Arcane, Sorcs are making a comeback.
Xen155 11-21-04, 12:15 AM	Unfourntanently, this is correct, but the draconomicon isn't all bad, pre made hoards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-21-04, 12:21 AM	I believe that if you know what is gonna' happen next mage will win. But you almost never no what is next without powerful magic. I like the sorcerers ability to adapt to instants, and the mages to situations. With the mage, you need to know what is a good balance. But sorcerers can use all their slots on the same thing if they have to at a moments notice. If one spell doesn't work for a sorcerer, it doesn't just sit there taking up a slot. You just decide to use something that does work. If you're in a fight where charm person won't work, just cast a bazillion magic missiles. Both classes are for different things. Sorcerers are more concentrated and yet chaotic, allowing them to be effective for the unexpected, and making them in some ways harder to use effectively. Mages are more versatile yet ordered, meaning you need to sometimes waste a slot on a spell that you didn't know you wouldn't need, but having more spells to choose from when you have all bases covered. Overall, even though they both have their strengths, I prefer the focused power of the sorcerer to the versatility of the mage. But I think we can all agree on one thing: if a party has neither, they're screwed.
Xen155 11-21-04, 12:31 AM	INDEED sir, Arcane casters are the spice of a party, not just a nessesity
ChaosEvoker 11-21-04, 01:09 AM	I believe that if you know what is gonna' happen next mage will win. But you almost never no what is next without powerful magic. I like the sorcerers ability to adapt to instants, and the mages to situations. With the mage, you need to know what is a good balance. But sorcerers can use all their slots on the same thing if they have to at a moments notice. If one spell doesn't work for a sorcerer, it doesn't just sit there taking up a slot. You just decide to use something that does work. If you're in a fight where charm person won't work, just cast a bazillion magic missiles. Both classes are for different things. Sorcerers are more concentrated and yet chaotic, allowing them to be effective for the unexpected, and making them in some ways harder to use effectively. Mages are more versatile yet ordered, meaning you need to sometimes waste a slot on a spell that you didn't know you wouldn't need, but having more spells to choose from when you have all bases covered. Overall, even though they both have their strengths, I prefer the focused power of the sorcerer to the versatility of the mage. But I think we can all agree on one thing: if a party has neither, they're screwed. Amen, I love sorcerors! I liek the spell flexibility. I've had too many moments with the thought "Damn, I wish I had prepared...."
Orcy The Green Wonder 11-21-04, 01:12 AM	Orcy enjoys playing sorcerers as well. Or... walking cannons as may be more appropriate. They have the ability to blast things to peices. More for combat spells mainly than for other forms of magic. At least for Orcy.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-21-04, 01:38 AM	Amen, I love sorcerors! I liek the spell flexibility. I've had too many moments with the thought "Damn, I wish I had prepared...." ....Oh, wait, I found this scroll I conveniently created last week and just happend to pack (mmm...free Scribe Scroll feat).
Xen155 11-21-04, 01:40 AM	:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Yes, good preperation takes away that problem Evoker speaks of.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-21-04, 02:02 AM	Wizards depend on good planning, while sorcerers really don't need to, except when choosing spells. To Xen155: Trying to get our post count up, are we?
Xen155 11-21-04, 02:05 AM	No, these posts, for some reason, don't count on my profile. I've been on 43 for months now!
Lady Rolindin 11-21-04, 04:57 PM	I,ve read the posting in my email and thank you for repying, this is what I like about the Grayhawk system. That a female pc can be described, chest size, buttocks size and the like. This helps to imagion the chartor, all the rest I don't like. I knoe that all of think that or chartors all look like Buffy, or Wounder women, but some time I just use the dice and use the tables for making a female chartor. Not every women chartor can be skinny an have the looks of a buffy. Some are just plane and big boned, with big chest,and body. Has any one else used the snow elves cities and made humans and halfelves cities, just use the template of the snow elves. This system of living does have its advantages. If you have your pc's live thier, they can get free child care while the female pc's go and have fun. They have many mother and fathers, but just one birth mother. I have put some of these cities in my fr, these communities are good for players to leave some of their chatror's for awhile (female getting pregant, males getting npc pregant.) Wizards and Sorcerers are both good classes, I like to combine the two that way it give's a spell caster a good advantage, prepared spells and some you can make up on the wing. some of my best chartor's are dual class casters helps to make an awsome caster, once they live past 8th to 10 level.
Shard of Suzail 11-21-04, 08:14 PM	A dual class sorcerer/wizard is a very bad idea indeed. Please, don't go there.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-21-04, 09:11 PM	Hey Shard! Nice to see you again :D To Lady Rolindin: :twitch: I have no idea what you said.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-21-04, 09:18 PM	A multi-class wizard/sorcerer lacks the sheer power of a straight class because the casting llevels don't stack. A 10th level sorcerer, 10 level mage multi-class still only has the casting power of a tenth level caster in both, even though they have an ECL of 20.
ChaosEvoker 11-21-04, 09:19 PM	Sorceror/Wizard is jsut a waste of time. I never understood or saw any advantage to that. Preperation, yes can help. BUt keep in mind, anti-scrying things, bad information, etc. can cause you to prepare incorrectly. ("Yeah I know I TOLD you guys it was only an orc. But, as you can see by the Collosal size and the giant red scales, my information was a little...off.") Scribing scrolls costs GP and XP. and gets REALLY expensive if you want multiple copies of any spells in your book to be on hand for any situation. Wizards are more diverse, yes. But at what cost to maintain flexibiilty?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-21-04, 09:50 PM	Argh, I new this was going to happen. Anyway, while I've got everyone's attention, we'll all have to agree that both Sorcs and Wizards have thier benefits and detriments (that's a big word for bad stuff for those without thesaurses). Otherwise this thread will likely become a big argument. Scribing scrolls costs GP and XP. and gets REALLY expensive if you want multiple copies of any spells in your book to be on hand for any situation. Wizards are more diverse, yes. But at what cost to maintain flexibiilty? Just to address this for the purposes of roleplaying, GP and XP are essentially in unlimited supply. You can always find more somewhere. A PC shouldn't worry about creating a scroll with his Scribe Scroll feat just because it uses some of his resources and puts him a little behind the rest of the party. That single scroll could hold the key to his survival or the survival of the entire group. I think that Item Creation feats should be used more often, even though the items created cost XP.
ChaosEvoker 11-21-04, 09:54 PM	I see your point, but still do not agree. Regardless, let's not turn this inot a massive argument. Perhaps a better subject would be what a good campaign is comprised of. What kind of stuff in campaigns do you find is fun to run as the DM and fun for the PC's to play in?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-21-04, 10:16 PM	Well, I'm a huge fan of magic, as are my PCs, so we tend to run high powered, high magic campaigns. It's fairly common to have the entire party be either arcane or divine (or some mix thereof) casters without any non-spell casters. Since I tend to be on the cheap side with gold and magical items, they take to learning spells. Often when the PCs meet enemy spellcasters, they engage in a Mage Duel (detailed in Magic of Faerun and Complete Arcane) instead of standard combat.
Student Of The Mind 11-22-04, 03:17 AM	Greetings to the Foundation Of Dungeon Masters, I ask for your opinions and ideas of side quests for a group of adventurers of roughly 2nd level. I am in need of two seperate scenarios, and will give as much information as possible. The party is of five maybe six characters, and should last until I run out of steam...Probably twenty-second level. Creatures and whatnot I dont really need, they will be appreciated, but I am looking mainly for reasons for the characters to turn down an alleyway of the storyline. The first central idea is for the basic long winded dungeon crawl, that explodes from the earth into a semi-large scale battle for the savor of a large town. It will consist of many many miles of trap ridden hallways, and of course the BBEG leading them through the caverns only for them to find he/she is porting orcs and goblinoids from other dimensions to for an army. The second is pretty easy...Stopping the slave trade from Thayan enclaves as they sail the money gained through magic sales, and the flesh of the captured slaves that were taken from various parts of the world. It's a water based campaign and I've already planned for a great deal of pirate encounters...And of course the large battles with ships from Thay!:devil: :D They are rough right now, but any ideas are greatly appreciated. Many thanks & good gaming.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-22-04, 03:43 AM	Where in the Realms is it set?
Student Of The Mind 11-22-04, 03:56 AM	Where in the Realms is it set? The dungeon crawl will most likely be near The Vast, and the sailing will be from Procampur toward Thay.
Lady Rolindin 11-22-04, 03:52 PM	what I wrote might have confused you, but the snow elf socity was in the early dragon issue's 70ths, 80ths, or 90the issues. The way the snow elf socity works is married couples live in a cummity, this cummity shares the wives and husbands witheach other. One pc might be the father of ten different children, but the child knows who the borth mother and birth father is. When one of them goes out adventuring or for what ever reason the rest of the familes help to raise the child while the parent is gone. if both parnents leave then another family will take the children in and watch them. The children are only allowed to marry from outside the cummity, then that person will join that cummity. This is what I did to my fr world, I put the socity in different places outside Waterdeep, Silvermoon and such, but they stay true to their mate,in these some other cummities have the snow elf ways not these. The pc stays true to their mate and they have the children have birth mother and birth father, but many father and mothers from other families in the cummity. I use htis for my players, it allows them to adventure and do thier gods work. the children are watched by other fathers and mothers, and they can learn from everonee in the cummity. such as herbalist, magic, weapons making , horse keping and riding and such. For a pc this helps to know that you have a cummity watching your child, not just your mother or grand mother. A female pc knows that they can go adventuring and not worry. As for the body typs. you have small (pette) (buffy the vampire slayer type) (small build) zena (medium) tall and bigger build big boned (over wight some or alot) This is what the old book from the 70ths has in it and what I use. For a female pc, they need to know what body type they have so they can have that pc adjust tothe body type. Take a theif for instance, I read in some of the early 300 hundreds dragon magazine that a small theif will have a medium theif use the bumpthe mark, while the pette theif will get the booty. A medium build thief will be more noiticed than the smaller theif (Buffy body, and xena body). The medium thief makes a better fighter/ thief class than theif, they make better guards. the meduim thief can still do breakins , but for street wise they smaller thief works with the bigger thief. this is what I mean by body type. If a cleric has a medium build he or she will hace more power from using their body wieght, while the smalller body priest can have a good strength (maybe stronger than the medium biuld) , but the smaller cleric will make a smaller target. the medium cleric will make a larger target, and will use thier wight to their advantage. The small cleric will move faster (speed, body), but when hit could cuase more damage (size). the dragon says the same thing about the mages, they have good magic, but if a Orc hits them they will fall faster because of low hp. If the mage is larger then depends on dex, can be hit easer. If smaller frame body the mage could dodge easer, than a medium body frame. the bigger the body type the bigger the target, that is what I mean. While all pc can't have the buffy body, it good to know what kind of body your pc has small (buffy), medium (xena) , large. We have to work with the body size of our pc and make the best class out of them, wizard, cleric, rouge, fighter. I do let my players re roll their body type if the don't like the first roll, only one more time and that one will stay that time. women do fight differently than a male fighter to, If the women is big chested she has to learn to use her body to fight with a sword, if small chested then can fight almost like a male pc. The body typ does make a difference, small female fighter, speed, fast cuts quick, while the medium female fighter will be bigger and could be just as fast as the smaller body type. But she has a bigger target to hit and will learn how to use her body type with the sword to be effective. This is what I'm saying body type does make a difference and can help your players to draw them. I know we all think that all our female pc's look like buffy small and pette, not so. This way they palyer knows what kind of body they have and can draw it and use it for the benifits each has. any body type could be small frame, medium, or large, this helps to make female pc and what kind of body they have. What size of chest, hips and so on. Has any one seen the movie The Red Violin? This would make a good theme for playing, a musical instrament maker kills his family and uses their blood on the out side, making it blood red finish. Any bard that uses the instrment, lute, flute, goes cazy and kills thier loved ones. I kinda like the ideal, a musical instrment that is cearst. Hard to destroy, taking over the pc.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-22-04, 05:12 PM	The dungeon crawl will most likely be near The Vast, and the sailing will be from Procampur toward Thay. Unfortunately, I don't know much about that region. Give me a couple of days and I'll come up with something.
Student Of The Mind 11-22-04, 05:47 PM	Unfortunately, I don't know much about that region. Give me a couple of days and I'll come up with something. The starting of the sailing campaing will start near Westgate in the Dragon Coast, and will end in Thay and/or Unther. The dungeon crawl will be from Ravens Bluff in The Vast, and stretch along the Earthspur Mountains into the The Glacier Of The White Worm. :D Good gaming!
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-22-04, 05:55 PM	The starting of the sailing campaing will start near Westgate in the Dragon Coast, and will end in Thay and/or Unther. The dungeon crawl will be from Ravens Bluff in The Vast, and stretch along the Earthspur Mountains into the The Glacier Of The White Worm. :D Good gaming! Are you looking for an actual dungeon, or would the underdark work ok?
Student Of The Mind 11-22-04, 06:04 PM	Are you looking for an actual dungeon, or would the underdark work ok? Oh no...I've never seen a dungeon yet that can match up to my expectations. Just like some ideas for Ravens Bluff, or maybe some puzzle ideas. I've got lots, but am always looking for more. Any special traps, clever riddles, or just baffling puzzles? I'm tired of running the same puzzles that fly around in my head, I am looking for newer ones...Please Help :weep: :P
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-22-04, 10:34 PM	Do something they wouldn't expect, like use a riddle that invloves something in the Realms that is obscure to the extreme.
ChaosEvoker 11-22-04, 11:03 PM	My suggestion is to get the Book of Challenges it has great puzzles and sorts of just the type your after.
Student Of The Mind 11-22-04, 11:30 PM	My suggestion is to get the Book of Challenges it has great puzzles and sorts of just the type your after. I try not to use their ideas...But I might check that book out, thanks for the help.
DngnMstrBailey 11-22-04, 11:50 PM	I don't know. Maztica would be a good area to run a surface crawl through. Lots of unexplored lands, exotic native magic, and unknown ruins wither and yon, being eaten up by the jungle. Oh, did I mention lots of unexplored lands?
Student Of The Mind 11-23-04, 12:52 AM	I don't know. Maztica would be a good area to run a surface crawl through. Lots of unexplored lands, exotic native magic, and unknown ruins wither and yon, being eaten up by the jungle. Oh, did I mention lots of unexplored lands? It will take too much work for me to run a Maztica campaign, I like to have all of my NPC's fleshed. With a Maztica game I would be forced to do so much work that I wouldnt be able to get my school work done. I will work on a Maztica game, but it will take a while. Thanks for the idea. Good gaming.
ChaosEvoker 11-23-04, 07:07 AM	I try not to use their ideas...But I might check that book out, thanks for the help. Yeah me too but it helps when I'm stuck for something to throw at them
ChaosEvoker 11-23-04, 05:54 PM	I'd like to announce our New Counsil Member to take the place of Cunning Linguist......*drumroll* Shard of Suzail :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Wow that color was tedious....anyway, congrats to Shard. Other Announcements: After much deliberation, we have removed the ranking system, as no one is enthusiastic about it and some have objections. So its gone. Thanks to everyoen on your input, anyway, continue your posts. MAY THE DMF LIVE FOREVER!!! EVOKER OUT
Shard of Suzail 11-23-04, 06:04 PM	Ok. Here are some ideas i would raise for consideration, student on the mind. Now, the first scenario idea involves the party exploring a dungeon and discovering that the bad guy is using portals to gate in an orc/goblin type army. This army then threatens the local area, hence scenario 2 and the battle. You can get a lot of mileage out of this first scenario and it can really be built up well if you do it properly and in stages. It is also a great scenario for using with a developing group, since the level of difficulty is progressive and you can link it all up. I would start off with the appearance of magical aberrations in the local area. As such, no monsters beyond a bear or two should trouble the locals, but now rust monsters and stranger things are popping up and attacking folks at random. There should be some mileage with the players exploring, tracking down and killing these beasts. Mix in the usual "defeat the bandits, protect the caravan" scenarios with "save the farm from alien beast" events. This is the first indication, though the players will not know it till later, of the planar goings on that the bad guy has set in motion. As such, there will be a lot of planar instability and some things will pop out of the cracks (hence the beasts). Locals may describe a wierd popping sound, or might give out reports of beasts that vanish midway into attacks, for no reason. Also a good time to use a displacer beast or to introduce blink dogs and similar threats. Maybe even the antics of an ethereal filcher or phase spiders. Later on, things will get more bizarre. Locals or even landmarks may dissappear. Crop circles and mystery will lead the players to do some investigation and you can set up a "visit the wizard for advice" scenario, perhaps with a long and difficult journey involved. The party will then be able to study the events in more detail and plot some sort of pattern on their map, locating the dungeon as a site of activity. At this point, you can throw in some larger planar threat that establishes itself as a secondary villain. It could be a large beast, a minor demon (like a succubus) or a trapped planar traveller or member of a planar race. Once that distraction is out of the way, then the dungeon awaits. It is probably best to make this, on the outside, some sort of insignificant cave network populated by minor threats. Deep inside it is probably some sort of ruin that has been hastily activated by the bad guy. If you are very clever, you can have the previously mentioned wizard connected to researching his ruin in some way. Perhaps it is actually he who is the bad guy. Alternatively, it could be a rival of his who seeks the downfall of our now friendly party advisor. You could make the bad guy a mindless group of golem creatures that operate the teleportation ruins based on some now obsolete program. This would allow you to make the dungeon big, mechanical and very strange. It would also mean that the villain isnt evil, its more like an insane machine. A bit like the Borg, clever players can learn what monsters are avoidable and what actions will set off a hostile response as they explore. They would need good knowledge arcane and spellcraft skills to tackle such a "villain". The party then stops the villain/device but are too late to prevent the arrival of some hostile planar force, be it summoned orcs, beasts, a demon or ancient snake men. They must predict the attack and ready forces to meet it, which allows for some strategy. They might want to do some diplomatic tasks to get allies support or to convince the allies wizard that the danger is great enough for his intervention. Potentially, if the bad guy is an enemy of the allied advisor wizard, then the players may have a race on their hands to get a warning to him before he is attacked by the planar force and his enemy. There may even by a battle in two sites, if you desire, leading the players to consider strategy as well as the importance of differing locations. Maybe some moral decisions could come in here too (perhaps a pc's family is in danger but a temple is similarly threatened at a different location etc). Eventually, once this is overcome, the party will have traced the plot through quite a few stages and will have had the chance to do some detective work as well as combat and diplomacy. It would work well if other scenarios were thrown in, unrelated, to hide the main plot that you are working on. Stick to the theme of planar monsters and aberrations and go quite heavy on the magic in the early stages. Don't be afraid to do wierd things like having the players make camp in one place and wake up several miles away. Think about the bermuda triangle and borrow situations from that (odd lights etc). Item wise, give the players an incentive to research and create devices that detect planar fluctuations. Let the wizards in the party go all out on the whole wierd science research, as its very rare that a game allows for actual investigation into the way magic itself works. Drop in lots of strange metals and objects that appear due to the instability and let the players research them. Some may be hazardous and some may be worked into magical weapons, say. It's a lot more interesting to do this than to have a magic sword fall out of the sky (though by all means, do that at least once, just for effect). Again, encourage research, experimentation and effort. Have your random planar monsters immune to certain attacks and get players investigating reports to try and discover their weaknesses. If they just run in, then slap them around with the beasts till they retreat and think it over. Perhaps a monster is immune to all damage except that dealt by throwing water on it. A local peasant may remember how jumping into a river saved his life as the beast seemed afraid of the rushing water. Treat it a little like ghostbusters, with a starting comedy element, lots of investigation, some wierd science and then a darker sub plot that eventually becomes a climatic portal type threat.
ChaosEvoker 11-23-04, 06:10 PM	Nice ideas! I may have to start brain picking some more and get more creative.... :cool: Anyway, Shard you may change your sig link to say "Counsil Member of the Dungeon Master's Foundation"
Shard of Suzail 11-23-04, 06:18 PM	:eek: Well, as Chancellor I promise to put an end to corruption and to tame the bureacrats. I will free Naboo from the vice like grip of the Trade Federation! :D I love the colours, by the way. They cheered me up ) I was feeling a bit battered after failing to win the DM competition for creating magic items. I look forward to seeing many more good contributions from the fine members of the foundation in future ) Keep up the good work all.
ChaosEvoker 11-23-04, 06:52 PM	Np, it was fun, but tedious. Anyway, has anyone else gotten the MMIII? I just got it and I love it!
Student Of The Mind 11-23-04, 06:54 PM	Shard of Suzail...Would you get offended if I gave you a hug? :D ;) Those are great ideas, thank you very much. I was going to be simple with the "reason" for adventuring, but now with your suggestions I'm gonna make it a bit more complicated...And will probably add the BBEG to one of the first encounters, just to juice the flames. Once again thank you. Good gaming!
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-23-04, 10:17 PM	Ok. Here are some ideas i would raise for consideration, student on the mind. Now, the first scenario idea involves the party exploring a dungeon and discovering that the bad guy is using portals to gate in an orc/goblin type army. This army then threatens the local area, hence scenario 2 and the battle. You can get a lot of mileage out of this first scenario and it can really be built up well if you do it properly and in stages. It is also a great scenario for using with a developing group, since the level of difficulty is progressive and you can link it all up. I would start off with the appearance of magical aberrations in the local area. As such, no monsters beyond a bear or two should trouble the locals, but now rust monsters and stranger things are popping up and attacking folks at random. There should be some mileage with the players exploring, tracking down and killing these beasts. Mix in the usual "defeat the bandits, protect the caravan" scenarios with "save the farm from alien beast" events. This is the first indication, though the players will not know it till later, of the planar goings on that the bad guy has set in motion. As such, there will be a lot of planar instability and some things will pop out of the cracks (hence the beasts). Locals may describe a wierd popping sound, or might give out reports of beasts that vanish midway into attacks, for no reason. Also a good time to use a displacer beast or to introduce blink dogs and similar threats. Maybe even the antics of an ethereal filcher or phase spiders. Later on, things will get more bizarre. Locals or even landmarks may dissappear. Crop circles and mystery will lead the players to do some investigation and you can set up a "visit the wizard for advice" scenario, perhaps with a long and difficult journey involved. The party will then be able to study the events in more detail and plot some sort of pattern on their map, locating the dungeon as a site of activity. At this point, you can throw in some larger planar threat that establishes itself as a secondary villain. It could be a large beast, a minor demon (like a succubus) or a trapped planar traveller or member of a planar race. Once that distraction is out of the way, then the dungeon awaits. It is probably best to make this, on the outside, some sort of insignificant cave network populated by minor threats. Deep inside it is probably some sort of ruin that has been hastily activated by the bad guy. If you are very clever, you can have the previously mentioned wizard connected to researching his ruin in some way. Perhaps it is actually he who is the bad guy. Alternatively, it could be a rival of his who seeks the downfall of our now friendly party advisor. You could make the bad guy a mindless group of golem creatures that operate the teleportation ruins based on some now obsolete program. This would allow you to make the dungeon big, mechanical and very strange. It would also mean that the villain isnt evil, its more like an insane machine. A bit like the Borg, clever players can learn what monsters are avoidable and what actions will set off a hostile response as they explore. They would need good knowledge arcane and spellcraft skills to tackle such a "villain". The party then stops the villain/device but are too late to prevent the arrival of some hostile planar force, be it summoned orcs, beasts, a demon or ancient snake men. They must predict the attack and ready forces to meet it, which allows for some strategy. They might want to do some diplomatic tasks to get allies support or to convince the allies wizard that the danger is great enough for his intervention. Potentially, if the bad guy is an enemy of the allied advisor wizard, then the players may have a race on their hands to get a warning to him before he is attacked by the planar force and his enemy. There may even by a battle in two sites, if you desire, leading the players to consider strategy as well as the importance of differing locations. Maybe some moral decisions could come in here too (perhaps a pc's family is in danger but a temple is similarly threatened at a different location etc). Eventually, once this is overcome, the party will have traced the plot through quite a few stages and will have had the chance to do some detective work as well as combat and diplomacy. It would work well if other scenarios were thrown in, unrelated, to hide the main plot that you are working on. Stick to the theme of planar monsters and aberrations and go quite heavy on the magic in the early stages. Don't be afraid to do wierd things like having the players make camp in one place and wake up several miles away. Think about the bermuda triangle and borrow situations from that (odd lights etc). Item wise, give the players an incentive to research and create devices that detect planar fluctuations. Let the wizards in the party go all out on the whole wierd science research, as its very rare that a game allows for actual investigation into the way magic itself works. Drop in lots of strange metals and objects that appear due to the instability and let the players research them. Some may be hazardous and some may be worked into magical weapons, say. It's a lot more interesting to do this than to have a magic sword fall out of the sky (though by all means, do that at least once, just for effect). Again, encourage research, experimentation and effort. Have your random planar monsters immune to certain attacks and get players investigating reports to try and discover their weaknesses. If they just run in, then slap them around with the beasts till they retreat and think it over. Perhaps a monster is immune to all damage except that dealt by throwing water on it. A local peasant may remember how jumping into a river saved his life as the beast seemed afraid of the rushing water. Treat it a little like ghostbusters, with a starting comedy element, lots of investigation, some wierd science and then a darker sub plot that eventually becomes a climatic portal type threat. You know Shard, it's sickening that you are what most of us would probably call a geneous. :clap: :bow: :clap: :bow: :love: :king: :love: :bow: :clap: :bow: :clap:
Xen155 11-24-04, 02:24 AM	When Shard does grace us with Shards presence Shard sure does grace!
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-24-04, 02:39 AM	Well, as Chancellor I promise to put an end to corruption and to tame the bureacrats. We corrupt bureacrats shall live forever! Mwhahahahaha! Since it looks like Shard's got SotM covered, I'll answer ChaosEvoker. Yes, I have the MM3 and it is indeed fantastic. I especially like the ooze that sucks arcane spells up. MMM... magic missile. Since my group has been on hiatus since I got the book, I haven't really had the chance to use it, but I'm hopeful. We should be playing next week, so I also get to try out a few things from CA, namely the Draconic bloodline feats, and a few of the new spells (I just love defenestrating). To Shard: Condolences on the DM Competition and on the loss of the Stargate game :weep: .
Shard of Suzail 11-24-04, 06:48 AM	I don't know if i`m worthy of being called a gerius, but i do sometimes have pretty good ideas. Anyway, i`m not the only person to do that here, every one of us is a talented GM. Thats what makes our foundation special. I havent been able to say anything on student of the mind's second scenario idea, though, the one concerning the pirates and the Thayan slaves. As such, i think we need someone who knows the realms a lot better than I to handle that one. I think it would be a good opportunity to bring in some famous villains and NPC's from the setting. If noone else has any ideas for that, then i`ll work on some suggestions based around what the thayans are using the slaves for (no doubt some nefarious plot).
Shard of Suzail 11-24-04, 07:19 AM	As to the stargate game, well, its not all a loss. It means our group returns to playing d and d, so i get to play my cleric again. I`m going to pick up some levels as an arcane caster and then go for mystic theurge. We`ve just had a wizard join our group, so i`m going to get him to teach my character the basics of wizardry. Shouldnt be too tricky, since my character has made extensive studies of wizards and has the feat skill emphasis: Knowledge Arcane as well as a hefty spellcraft score. It will be a challenge, as i`ll be clumsy for a few levels. As a multiclassed cleric fighter i`m also going to have to pick up another fighter level to avoid the multiclass penalty too. Still, should get six mystic theurge levels in there by the time i hit 20th and i`ll be interested to see how the prestige class plays. Thus, if i dont die, i`ll end up as a Cleric 9, Fighter 2, Wizard 3, Theurge 6 (human, so multiclass ignores the cleric levels). I was really tempetd by geomancer and the forgotten realms has some odd prestige classes that need both arcane and divine magic. I`ll look in on those too, when i get the chance, but theurge is probably where i`ll end up. It`ll be nice to get back to d and d, our game was just getting interesting when we left it.
ChaosEvoker 11-24-04, 09:50 AM	You are quite crative Shard, ther's no denying that. @ Modmorgan: Yeah I like the Arcane ooze, they ahve a ton of creative constructs and oozes. I was surprised. Alot of constructs in particular.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-24-04, 11:19 AM	I think I might get MMIII next. I hear it's got whole load of new golems, and my favorite things to throw at the PCs are constructs and undead. They won't run, die, get fatigued, are immune to sneak attack (which screws the parties rogue to no end), and I like the fact that it's not actually alive, especially when throwing a group of 15+ zombies at them.
ChaosEvoker 11-24-04, 02:53 PM	Yeah I'd be careful though players get irritated if they keep going " *rolls a twenty* YES A CR...undead....*sigh*"
Xen155 11-24-04, 09:30 PM	Hey, I need some advice for the Artifact thread. Should I let people post there ideas themself or should I have them PM me the item and Let me enter it. If any of you guys have an Inovative new Item for a campaign or just feel like creating one Share the Wealth! Oh yeah, the most Creations so far have Been made by Chosen of the Dark Sun.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-24-04, 09:37 PM	Oh yeah, the most Creations so far have Been made by Chosen of the Dark Sun. Thats 'cause I'm a genious :D . I suggest you have people PM you with ideas.
Xen155 11-24-04, 09:42 PM	Ok thats good enough for me. that is what i will do. SO send me your items (i just wanna look at'em <_< >_>)!!!!!!
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-24-04, 09:46 PM	I'm working on a few already, so I'll send them when I can. We need a topic! How about we discuss methods of introducing Artifacts into our campaigns, since Xen so conveniently brought if up.
Xen155 11-24-04, 09:52 PM	I'm working on a few already, so I'll send them when I can. We need a topic! How about we discuss methods of introducing Artifacts into our campaigns, since Xen so conveniently brought if up. Carefully, you dont won't to give like.... a group of 13 lvl people a Deck of Many Things without the void card..... or something. I almost always put it at the end of a dungeon either in a Dragon's hoard or on the person of an extremly tough boss. @ CotDS Hey man get'em done and send them my way!
Dyne 11-24-04, 10:32 PM	Carefully, you dont won't to give like.... a group of 13 lvl people a Deck of Many Things without the void card..... or something. I almost always put it at the end of a dungeon either in a Dragon's hoard or on the person of an extremly tough boss. @ CotDS Hey man get'em done and send them my way! Of course! You give them a Deck of Many Things with nothing BUT Void cards! :P
Rapida 11-24-04, 11:14 PM	Hello everybody, I just got done with my first session of my new campaign. I think it was one of the best sessions we have ever had. Ok I need my fellow DMs to help me with an ideal but first I'm gonna give you what happened in the session so you know what is going on. Any ideals of your own would be greatly appreciated. Ok the party is as follows: Human Paladin 1/ Fighter 1, Gnome Favored Soul 2, Halfling rogue 2, and a human wizard2 (who dies during the first adventure and is replaced with a dwarven wizard2). I used 2 modules off of the wizard's site and made them both happen to a small town. One was the burning plague and the other was frozen whispers (a great module). Well the halfling lives in Duvin's Pass to begin with and his whole family comes down with the burning plague. He organizes a party, he receives aid from a paladin from a nearby city (not sure which yet), a wizard who wandered into town and couldn't leave because he contracted the plague (this was the first wizard character), and the gnome who was looking for someone and decided to help. Once they agree to help solve the town's problem they journey to the mines where the plague seems to be coming from. They go through it without to much trouble besides the wizard getting pincushioned by some crossbow bolts. After the wizard dies they capture the kobold leader and saves his kids. They take his kids to the temple of lathander since they aren't evil. They hope they can convert them to worship lathander and help the town, but anyway. A dwarf wizard was found beatin on the road and was left for dead. He was brought to the temple to recover and joined the party in exchange for the elf wizard's spellbook and equipment. So they cleanse the mines and cure the source of the plague. After this they heal up for a week or two. In the end over 83% of the town's population is dead, leaving only 200 or so left. The halfling's father and older brother both survive the plague. Then some hunters come up missing, they were hunting in the Timberway forest and haven't returned for several days. The party goes there discovers the bodies barely survive the fight with an insane man that is almost a wendigo. Well they let him survive since he was insane, during their watch he transforms into the wendigo and escapes so there are 2 wendigos hunting the region. Luckily they still have a barrel of lamp oil from the mines and end defeating both. The dwarf wizard became infected from the bite of a wendigo and almost turned into one but a paladin saved him in exchange for a service to his order. Ok sorry for that long adventure breakdown. Anyway my ideal for the paladin's adventure is based around this: During all this in a nearby keep their is a band of mercenaries that serve as the town's "protection". In other words they are stealing from the town. Anyway they didn't loose any to the plague due to a high level cleric curing everyone there and letting no one enter. Now they are starting to demand the same amount of food and gold from the town as before. Of course the town doesn't have that much. So I'm thinking the PCs (level 3s) need to clear out the keep with the help of an order of paladins. Of course since the PCs need to be the heroes no higher levels then say 4. Any ideals how they could do this? I will have the exact number of mercenaries in a later post, but any general ideals or something?
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-24-04, 11:18 PM	Yo, Rapida, long time no see! One question: do you have one of those vinyl pads? I got one recently and it is one of the most useful things I have now! Alright, you could have the keep split into several sections, and have one group of paladins search each, and your PC party search another. Than you can have fights without their allies getting in the way. Then, it could happen where they clean out their tower only to find out the paladins have been decimated and forced to retreat, effectively trapping the PCs inside the keep with no backup. You could then have them fight their way out, regroup with the paladins, and come back better prepared and maybe lay siege to the keep. Then perhaps the mercenaries have the local Duke or Baron and their families hostage, and the villain leaders are using them to barter free passage. This can lead to an interesting dilemma of how to destroy the villains without getting the hostages killed. Then just see how the PCs react and build on it from there.
Xen155 11-24-04, 11:18 PM	Of course! You give them a Deck of Many Things with nothing BUT Void cards! :P :heehee @ Rapida Man that sounded like fun, I havn't played D&D for like *gulp* 3 weeks!
Rapida 11-25-04, 02:03 AM	One ideal I had was to let the party get the first strike even before they go to the keep. Either fight a group of the keep's mercenarias in the bar. Or have the PCs assigned to ambushing one of the bands that go and collect the food from the townsfolk. @Chosen of the Dark Sun That does sound like fun, them realizing they are trapped would force them to use their brain over their brawn.
Rapida 11-25-04, 02:15 AM	Hello again, I would of edited my above post but this is a different subject so I figured it deserves a seperate post. I was wondering if any of the DMs here have someone in there game who the players can go to for information or anything? I want to insert a Loremaster type figure to help my PCs with identifying items, learning hidden lore, and the like. Any ideals how to introduce the characters to a NPC like this? My campaign is posted above if you want to get really specific, not that that is necassary. General tips would be appreciated also, thanks ahead of time.
Xen155 11-25-04, 02:19 AM	A Powerful wizard in his tower who offers his Intellect for a short quest or something. Perhaps?
ChaosEvoker 11-25-04, 09:18 AM	Carefully, you dont won't to give like.... a group of 13 lvl people a Deck of Many Things without the void card..... or something. Yeah yeah....okay you guys got that by TOTAL LUCK. (*sigh* They get ONE overly-powerful artifact and you never hear the end of it...) yeah teh dragon who owned it drew the imprisonment card.....*shakes fist* @Rapida Its not nearly as hard as you might think. They get an item they can't identify, so they go around town lookign for someone who can...poof you introduce the NPC!
LilMissKittyn 11-25-04, 11:14 AM	Hey. I'm new here, just joined a few days ago. I'm a friend of ChaosEvoker's and he suggested I try out this group. I'm not a DM, but I do play, and I'm learning how to DM, so just bear with me if I ask stupid questions (yes, you can laugh at me.) I'm not sure what the process for joining here is, if someone could fill me in...? :confused:
ChaosEvoker 11-25-04, 11:34 AM	You have already done enough to apply. You said you want to join, your in! (rules of the guild house) Everyone, swarm our new member with greetings: LilMissKittyn
ChaosEvoker 11-25-04, 11:41 AM	I have too much fun with HTML guys....and now, dancing smiles: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin: :dancin:
ChaosEvoker 11-25-04, 11:43 AM	ANYWAY....now for something relevant...kind of. To all my awesome members here at the DMF: :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!!!!! :turkey: :turkey: :turkey: Have fun, and remember. The game never ends...just the campaign.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-25-04, 12:40 PM	Welcome, all recently new members who I haven't had a chace to welcome! Actually, Rapida, in my campaign the NPC actually travels with them and is a member of their group (he's a gnome bard).
Xen155 11-25-04, 01:55 PM	Greetings LilMissKittyn! The way you write "sounds familiar, you wouldn't.... oh i dont know, be the wife of.......ohhhhhh nevermind. And as ChaosEvoker Apptly put it Happy Thanksgiving. @current conversation, i dont like giving the players NPCs who fight with them, mainly because its hard to run it and the campaign, but im lazy so....
Shard of Suzail 11-25-04, 02:23 PM	I saw a fellow gm run a similar game a while back and he tasked his characters with opening the gate to a castle so that another group could charge in and attack. I`m sure you players could use a mixture of stealth and magic to do much the same and that way you neednt worry about npc`s in combat at all. You dont even need them to go into the keep, either. Perhaps there is a tower nearby that sends out patrols to inspect incoming caravannes and troop formations. When they are approved for entry to the keep, the tower waves some sort of flag in a coded signal. The players would need to sneak into the tower and somehow gain access to the roof and the flag. They would also need to find out the code, perhaps by obtaining a code book from an enemy guard captain. This done, they can fool the keep into letting in the paladins. Should they mess up, or be too slow, however, then the paladins would be in for a good kicking. This means that your players will need to think about things and that they have lots of options regarding how to do the mission.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-25-04, 02:23 PM	Actually, it's not like I just decided to put him there for no reason. They met him in the planar prison they were trapped in. It turned out he had been there for 10 days but on Faerun it was 400 years. So when they escaped and ended up in Silverymoon (he obviously had no idea where they were since silverymoon hadn't been built while he was around) and got chased into the Underdark by a horde of skeletons, he had no choice but to join them. Now, do to the nature of the planar prison, he's actually claustrophobic (strange for a gnome in the Underdark, eh). By the way, he wields a gnome sized greatsword. :D
Lady Rolindin 11-25-04, 04:44 PM	How about an ideal from a book I read, the Rouge. The lore master woprks in a libary and they let him travel with your group, because the group has part of a gem map and they need to find the rest of the pieces. The lore master puts all the pieces togheter he or she can thenopen the locked castle door or cave door. the gem map has instructions on it to open the door, and also the words or symbols to touch. Just an ideal i liked the ideal of a gem lore master and will try to use this in my next campain myself. A group finds one pices of a gem map and must find the other three or four pieces then have the lore master decode the symbols to open the tomb. :)
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-25-04, 04:45 PM	:turkey: HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE! :turkey: Rapida, that sounds like a whole lot of fun. As usual, I agree with Shard that it may be more fun for them to be a support unit (just because of thier low level). On a personal note, my new campaign starts next week with character creation. So far, I've only got one PC locked in, and she's playing a 13 year old human sorcerer. I think she's going to select some of the Draconic feats from Complete Arcane. I'll let you know how things go. :D Welcome to the Foundation, LilMissKittyn. If you have any rules questions, I'd be more that happy to answer them (for some reason I can remember every last detail about this game, but have no idea what I had for breakfast this morning :D ). Everyone else here is really good with plots and other concepts (especially Shard).
Lady Rolindin 11-25-04, 05:25 PM	I though that this group was open to new ideals, that's seems to not be the case. Every chararter does have a different body type and ever women pc is not a buffy look alike. the ideal for a gem lore master is a good ideal, this is the last time I'm going to post here. You all have your own clicks and don't listen to know one else.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-25-04, 05:32 PM	We weren't refuting the stuff about the thieves, just you've said it to many times, and we never said we didn't like the gem idea since that was 2 posts ago and I just read it myself. Oh, well...
Xen155 11-25-04, 07:06 PM	@ Lady Rolindin, Please reconsider leaving the DMF :( Ok, i've completly finished the DMF Artifact Corner v1.5 it just needs some filling up. So PM me your Creations! If you dont want credit for the creation I will put it under an unnamed colum. Also, if you don't want anybody to see it just yet (like if you had players on the boards) PM it to me and I'll keep it until you tell me its ok. Take a Look! DMF Artifact Corner v1.5
ChaosEvoker 11-25-04, 11:30 PM	Lady Rolindin: We have not had sufficient time to respond to your gem idea. AS for your qualms on female characters: It was....very off topic, and, no offence, quite honestly irrelevant to the game. I have not met a single Dungeon Master who truly factors in a woman's body type into game play. It just doesn't come into play. To truly factor that in become too tedious. I do not wish you to leave, but if you so choose, we are sorry. Mordmorgan: I wish you luck with your campaign.
Xen155 11-25-04, 11:45 PM	@ChaosEvoker I've known several DM's who get detailed about things such as that, It can really make the game more in depth.
Dyne 11-25-04, 11:47 PM	@ChaosEvoker I've known several DM's who get detailed about things such as that, It can really make the game more in depth. Why the heck is it necessary to know a woman's bust size? Unless you're gonna play a game with the BoEF, none of that matters. Anyway, I don't know of many people who play with that book anyway.
ChaosEvoker 11-25-04, 11:49 PM	I have to go with Dyne, it is totally unnessecary detail. But I feel this foundation would be suited to a better subject than women's chests....
Xen155 11-26-04, 03:27 AM	Then, if its not interupting another conversation, Has anyone present Dmed Dragon PCs? I have and it is great fun. There is a suprisingly large amount of different inscentive ideas for quests.
ChaosEvoker 11-26-04, 09:34 AM	I myself have PLAYED a HALF dragon PC. But I have not DMed any dragon PCs. Interesting idea though.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-26-04, 01:28 PM	My first character I ever made for the game was a half-silver dragon.
ChaosEvoker 11-26-04, 05:07 PM	Qutie an unusual introduction to the game. MY first character was a Human Fighter. How cliche' eh?
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-26-04, 05:47 PM	I was a ranger. None of my friends or I had ever played the game before, so we were bored, saw it in our local hobby store, and decided to pick up a copy. And that is my wonderful tale of how I was introduced to the game. :)
LilMissKittyn 11-26-04, 05:48 PM	My first was a Human Cleric. The group needed one, so there I was.
ChaosEvoker 11-26-04, 05:56 PM	Ah yes, I was intoduced to D&D through a friend who DMed for me. We played 2nd ed. Then we got some more people, got some 3rd ed stuff and have been playing strong ever since.
Dyne 11-26-04, 06:01 PM	Then, if its not interupting another conversation, Has anyone present Dmed Dragon PCs? I have and it is great fun. There is a suprisingly large amount of different inscentive ideas for quests. The first thing my PC's would do as a dragon would be go torch some towns. Not a great deal of fun for me to see my cities burn to the ground, so I don't let my PC's play as anything like a dragon.
ChaosEvoker 11-26-04, 06:02 PM	That's a point, its kind of hard to do that, Draogns being as solitary as they are.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-27-04, 02:31 PM	I started playing after my dad brought home one of those massive boxes with the basic D&D stuff about 12 years ago. I started out as DM and only got to play my first PC about three years ago. It didn't take. I need more change than any one character could possibly provide. As for dragons, if any of you remember Io's Blood Isles from 2e, I DMed a few of those games over the years. It was really fun, but there's no way I'd ever allow a PC to be a dragon in my game. Half-dragons I allow, but only after 10 levels of Dragon Acolyte. Oh, for everyone interested, Jason Nelson's got another Behind the Screen (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/bs/20041126a) out! Horray!
LilMissKittyn 11-27-04, 05:15 PM	Wait. How old are you, Mordmorgan?
Shard of Suzail 11-27-04, 05:28 PM	I think he must be at least 60. :eek:
redhase 11-27-04, 06:14 PM	Evil never ages, we only get wiser!
Xen155 11-27-04, 06:16 PM	Hello RedHase, do you wish to join the DMF?
redhase 11-27-04, 06:41 PM	How much blood from the Harpers agents has to flow, and mame, and tortue to join? :eek:
Xen155 11-27-04, 06:47 PM	Well, none at all, but the DMF wont stop you from killing some meddeling Harpers.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-27-04, 06:54 PM	When they are dead, I will eat their brains, and they will give me power.
redhase 11-27-04, 07:12 PM	Sounds good to me joining.
redhase 11-27-04, 07:36 PM	As for dragons, if any of you remember Io's Blood Isles from 2e, I DMed a few of those games over the years. It was really fun, but there's no way I'd ever allow a PC to be a dragon in my game. Half-dragons I allow, but only after 10 levels of Dragon Acolyte. Mordmorgan the Mad I like have dragonkinder, the children of a red dragon,or black dragon (human or elf are good for this expermint and their children are really bad pc's). Like you players don't need to be full blooded dragons. If someone wants to help I make sure their not playing in the game and then they can play the part of a dragon, who's attacking the pc's. Read most of the posts on the pages, have to go back and read the rest. :devil:
ChaosEvoker 11-27-04, 09:10 PM	New Member: redhase Does anyone find my color of choice to be....appropriate?
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-27-04, 09:20 PM	It works.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-28-04, 01:06 AM	I think he must be at least 60. :eek: HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! 21 (seriously). I started really young. *Hides Harper Pin* :chicken: Stupid Harpers!
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-28-04, 01:12 AM	How many Harpers will Redhase kill if Redhase does kill Harpers? Welcome to the DMF! :dancin:
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-28-04, 01:19 AM	Probably about as many harps as a Haper could harp if a Harper could harp harps :D
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-28-04, 01:21 AM	Probably about as many harps as a Haper could harp if a Harper could harp harps :D In other, words, we don't know so we'll all just make up nonsense rhymes to cover up the fact. :D
Evandelé Morningstar 11-28-04, 01:28 AM	Probably about as many harps as a Haper could harp if a Harper could harp harps :D Mordmorgan the Mad previously told me that it is 1304 in theory, but as any good Harper knows, that has never been proven.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-28-04, 02:16 AM	Ah, finally my better (not to mention saner) half has seen fit to grace us with her presence. Oh, and honey, :teach: it was 1305, but close enough :D .
Shard of Suzail 11-28-04, 02:22 PM	Other half? Oh yes? Is this the mysterious woman in your life? You must tell us all about her, enquiring minds want to know. As to dragons, well, in the days of old, one could play a party of dragons using the council of wyrms setting. I only played it once and didnt get a chance to explore it in detail, but it seemed an interesting idea. It`s not a problem to have dragon players so long as they are either all dragons or dragon oriented. Thus, if you were a good gm, you could run dragonlance and have some players as dragons and some as dragon riders or as a high lord and retinue again with some people playing dragon mounts or wingmen. These days, with the way players are, it isnt hard to build a high level character that can stand on equal footing to a dragon. It isnt always true, either, that dragons are solitary. Depending on the setting they can be group oriented or inclined to seek out the company or love of humanoids. It is important, should you include dragon players, to work out just what is going on in dragon society within the campaign. There will be other dragons out there doing their own thing and sooner or later the players will run into those. Once dragons become active in a world then that world usually undergoes some major changes. Krynn is a good example. Similarly, draconic gods exist and may not get on with humanoid gods. Even a benevolent dragon PC may find that his appearance and agendas soon anger the locals. A dragon, after all, is a member of its own race and culture and that will cause a degree of separation between it and player racial groups. I ran a campaign in which the dragons made a concerted effort to take back their world from the humanoids who had infested it. It surprised the players when they found red and gold dragons working side by side against them. All too often players will have a drow (or worse) in their ranks and yet will not appreciate that dragons can set aside their family differences for the good of their whole race (though their methods will vary). Dragons are often treated very badly in fantasy settings. They are feared, hunted down and stolen from. People debate how much loot can be obtained for dragon eggs and how much armour they can craft from a dragon's hide. It is only a matter of time before dragons as a whole get together and dispense some righteous justice upon their oppressors. A player dragon or dragons must come to terms with the way that local cultures treat dragons. The usual human oriented view of good and evil may not apply to dragons in the same way and dragon players will have to watch that they dont fall into the usual assumptions that a short lived human pc may make with regards to alignment choices. There is a lot to explore, by roleplaying the world from a dragon's point of view. So long as a player accepts that a dragon isnt just the usual character, then he or she will get a lot out of it. Similarly, other players too must accept that the dragon player is literally a different kind of animal to the usual PC. Still, so long as they stick with the dragon theme, then they too can really benefit from the unusual relationship.
LilMissKittyn 11-28-04, 02:35 PM	If my post doesn't make any sense, I'm sorry, as I have a very high temperature and can't walk without getting dizzy at the moment. Dragons seem to fall into one of two categories in fantasy: either they are the herioc rescuers, or the evil demons. This isn't so different from regular characters, at least, not in the groups I've played in, except that dragon players would be a bit harder to control. So what's the benefit? Again, my apologies if I ask stupid questions, but I'm still trying to learn.
Shard of Suzail 11-28-04, 03:08 PM	Well, there would be many benefits to playing a dragon character. In roleplay terms, it lets you look at the game from a different angle. 1. You are very big, humanoids are very small. 2. You can fly, most folks cannot. 3. You are very strong as well as very clever. 4. You live a very long time indeed, most folks do not. 5. You have an unusual culture, and your people are scattered. 6. You have a different pantheon to everyone else. 7. You have a different history to everyone else. 8. You dont need weapons to fight with, unlike everyone else. 9. You dont need a class to be powerful, but you can take one. 10. You can snack on metal, rocks and even whole cows. Thats quite a lot to explore and experience. As a player in a group with a dragon, you can also gain a lot. 1. You have a Dragon as an ally, most folks do not. 2. Your affinity with a class makes you an expert, unlike the dragon. 3. You have access to dragon related plots. 4. You may be able to ride the dragon and take dragon related classes. 5. You can feel less bad about collecting a loot horde. 6. You will no longer get pushed about by the town guard. 7. You will probably get to do lots of stuff in the air, like combat. 8. You can explore the dragon's sense of humour and opinions. 9. You can travel at speed and in safety. 10. You will never fear cows.
ChaosEvoker 11-28-04, 03:51 PM	Nice sig Shard, but isn't EVERYONE here all powerful? ;) Control? CONTROL is easy. DM: The gods smite you....I win. Having fun is a whole 'nuther ball game....or...role-playing game. Right...so do you guys have any suggestions as to how to reduce arguments between players and DM? I have one particular player who just can't help but pick an argument with me on every little thing he doesn't like. Any suggestions?
Droga 11-28-04, 05:11 PM	When my players argue about everything. I tend to get in their faces and say two words. Rule Zero
redhase 11-28-04, 05:59 PM	Dragons in a champain are both good and bad theings accourding to how their played. Half dragons (kindersdragons) are great to bring into a champain, because they have some dragon powers and they don't feel along and despiesed(some red dragon and blackdragon kinder are treated as outcastes and stay to themselves), such as waist A red dragon kinder could be nice when they want to. Sliver dragon can as we all know turn into any form they want at will. This is a good ideal for one of your pc's to play, a silver dragon will the rest of the pc's find out? I did like Shard of Suzail commits very thought out and insightful. Dragons in campains can bring somthing extra into it. I have to write up my creature for the compantation, should be a good contest. I think about a Gaint Ice owl! Players should nit be aloud to aruge about the rules, the dm is incharge and if they don't like the rules then they need to be talked to. To Droga I say bravo to you're in charge.
Shard of Suzail 11-28-04, 06:17 PM	Those competitions are hard indeed. Lots of entries and standards are high. I`m not sure i agree with the score criteria though. Be sure to give your ice owl some serious thought before you post it. As was shown by the item creation thread, you can get away with posting fairly late, so dont feel that you are in a hurry. Sit back and mull it over. As to player arguments, well, it depends on what it is about. If you player has a valid dispute, then that makes it harder to deal with. If they are arguing without cause, then thats easily put right. Could you give us some examples of the arguments this player has had with you, Chaosevoker? Also, how have you dealt with the problem thus far?
redhase 11-28-04, 07:57 PM	I've had some of the same proublems with players switching to the shadow weave for their source of magic, and like the thread in the forgotten realms posts. I've told them that Mystra would take away any weave power and Shar is not that nice of a god. That because of the shadow weave infulance their alignment will change and they have to reflect the change; the shadow weave with Shar's infulance is going to change their pc. As for other things like the shadow weave, should they be allowed to have shadow fire. Not mention in the books as if has yet, but if they gain the favior of Shar then and only then, if they lose favior with Shar she will take it away Bam! Shar is displease with you and she will take back what she gave you in a heart beat, could be using her weave or if they do get her favior she will. This issue is contorversal but they have to gain Shar's favior for Shadow fire. Not easy to do, Shar has to be really impressed with them. So far she not impressed with the pc, keeps ingoring the pc. Players do argue with each other about the rules and the clarlty, but if the 3.5 are not clear enough, then I use the 2e rules if not up dated. Things like that, the shadow weave and 2e verses 3.5 rules changes.
Shard of Suzail 11-28-04, 08:13 PM	Shar is one tough cookie and that shadow weave is her pet project. Any player messing with that had better be pro Shar or you can kick his rear. Still, there is a lot of appeal to having gods, like Shar and Lolth, who are powerful, active and jealous beings. As with all forgotten realms gods, however, Shar likes to take a much more direct interest in worldy affairs than the greyhawk pantheon gods ever would. I wouldnt be overly surprised, for instance, if I spent some time learning shadow weave and actually was spoken to by Shar herself, through the shadow weave. By learning shadow weave your players are basically volunteering for Shar's cause, so dont be afraid to have the god and its followers wade in and pester the players concerned. If they dont tow the line, then they just dont do magic ever again. Enough said, really. You dont ask the Chinese to supply power to your house and then start having issues with communism and state control. Messing with Shar is like poking a whale with pointy sticks. By virtue of its mighty hugeness, it may just kill you dead.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-28-04, 08:22 PM	If a player has a problem with you bending the rules slightly, just ask them if, since they have a problem, they can try to DM. A lot of players will just back down at this point, but some will go ahead and agree, thinking that it'll be easy. Then you can either let them realize how hard DMing is, or you can do exactly the same thing they do, make sure they know that you kow when they bend the rules. It might sound like a stupid and immature thing to do, and in some ways it is, but if the player is smart they will realize how hard it is to DM when someone is arguing with everything they do, and should shut-up when you get back to DMing, realizing full well how hard it is to follow every rule, since sometimes a rule makes no sense (this can be a problem with by-the-book players) or doesn't really apply to the situation. This will only work with some players though, because certain players will just get angry, so it can't be used on everyone. It is often best though to let them get the crack at DMing, but argue with them, and let them realize it by themselves. There are times when someone has to argue, but not all the time.
redhase 11-28-04, 08:41 PM	The group wanted to go back and change some things in history, They didn't like that rule from the 2e Netheril Empire of Magic that Mystra had rules for time travel. It own her rules and no not even your god can help you, not unless your god wants to take on Mystra and become the god of magic. The rules are on page 13 and 14 and mystra will not let any person or group change history. They didn'y like that, but they rule has not been updated so it stays until updated. They wanted to go back and stop the Netheril empire from forming, unlikey now ay Mystra rules say no. Like you said Shar is one tough cookie and will use you if the pc changes to her weave. She will change your whole attude to match hers, the party might not like this, some of the pc have a hard time with the mage who's changed over to Shar and is dark and moody nowtrying to hold back the hate and feelings to kill good. I din't think that pc will live through the campain, the rest will kick the pc out our the paladin will end up kill her. Party conflict just because the wizard wanted to ooz with Shar power. As for dming some have done it before they just don't like the rule cahnges or lack of changes form the 2e which still hold.
LilMissKittyn 11-28-04, 10:16 PM	Will reply to dragon postings in 40 hours or so - I'll be busy until then, sorry. Just to let you know I'm not ignoring them.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-28-04, 11:42 PM	Other half? Oh yes? Is this the mysterious woman in your life? You must tell us all about her, enquiring minds want to know. She's my fianceé, and before anyone asks, it's June 28th of '05 (and yes, the ring is HUGE). And yes, I love her (most of the time, unless she shatters my laboriously prepaired Adult Red Dragon in 9 rounds with her acursed Greater Invisibility and a LUCKY shot with that damnable Cone of Cold! *Shakes Fist* Damn wizard!). That said, she's interested in learning a little about DMing, so I told her this is the place to be :D . Gotta love shameless self-promotion. Regarding Dragons: I'm considering letting one of my PCs in my new game eventually transform into a dragon, but not in the way you'd think. She's taking the Draconic Heritage feat from Complete Arcane, and that gave me an idea. Since we're playing in the final months of 1373 DR, the Year of Rogue Dragons, I was thinking that a particularly sly dragon (color to be determined) found a way to shatter its concsiousness and its soul and implant them in especially hardy individuals. Once the Rage had subsided, the hosts of the Dragon's essence would instinctively be drawn to certain places where the essence would be drawn out, coalesce over time, and be imbued within a single individual (the PC in this case). The PC would slowly become the dragon in all ways (i.e. shape knowledge, personality) over a period of years. Regarding the Dreaded Rules Lawyer: There's only one cure for a rules lawyer: Death (or certain medications if death is too extreme). I've gamed with one, and only one rules lawyer (who for some reason was allowed to play an elven druid in 2e), and it was miserable. Fortunately I moved away to college and he continued bugging other people. To LilMissKittyn: Hope you feel better :) . Think positive and keep a phone handy (just in case your fever hits 104.0 and you need to call the hospital).
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-29-04, 12:11 AM	Shar is one tough cookie and that shadow weave is her pet project. Any player messing with that had better be pro Shar or you can kick his rear. I created a secret cabal of Mystran Cleric/Wizards who hunt down Shadow weave-users and exterminate them. Any PC who takes the Shadow Magic feat after aligning himself with Mystra or her clergy can expect a not-so-nice visit from these crusaders.
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-29-04, 02:05 AM	If I've sent a chill down your spine. Made you shudder, or scared you. If you think of the name Droga with hate... I've done my job. What if you give me that warm, fuzzy feeling inside? Huh?? WHAT THEN!?!?!?! :D Oh, I took that Character Test everyone's always talking about. Supposedly I'm a Chaotic Neutral Half-Elf Bard, which isn't all that far off from my usual Neutral Human Rogue, so there.
ChaosEvoker 11-29-04, 11:34 AM	I like how everyone is changing their sig links to reflect Xen's little titles for everyone. Nice. Anyway, no its more like somethign that happened at our last session. They are talking around the underdark area of this huge city that has alot of levels. If I remember they are speaking to a merchant: PC: I draw my scimitar and see if that makes an impression Me (DM): As you draw it and begin to put it in front of you, you realize it isn't there. PC: What? How? Me: You see a drow warrior who also weilds two scimitars. he holds a third one, yours in his left hand, and is holding it out to you handle first. He says "Let's not have any fighting here." Odd behavior for a drow, but House Do'Urden obviously wants to keep the peace right now. PC: So he disarmed me? Me: Yeah. PC: You want to roll for that? Me: :ahem: *rolls die and makes a point of not looking at it* He succeeds. While admittedly I WON the disagreement. He sulked for a little while. Do I just have to make him get used to it? Or is there some way of solving this little problem?
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-29-04, 03:47 PM	I hate to say it, but I think your player has a legitimate beef. If you really want to have him disarmed, at least have the PC roll before it happens. That way you can always fudge the roll behind the screen to make it look like the PC had a chance of keeping his weapon. DMs who have to say "because I said so" a lot tend to irritate players and make them feel like they're not playing a game so much as watching you play one. It's fine to railroad PCs, but only if they've got no clue you're doing it. (P.S) If any one quotes me on that, I'll deny saying it :D
Lady Rolindin 11-29-04, 04:57 PM	A good dm but tends to like the evil npc and play evil side of gaming some times. !
redhase 11-29-04, 05:17 PM	Are you still mad because your Harper agent was caught by Graydoon my Tharchon of the torure rooms. Don't worry Lady Rolindn the dwarf mage, it wasen't somthing that could be help your Harper found out to much and was stop. then tortured, and made a breader to bear demon children, this is what happen's to all harpers agents who enterfear in the business of Thay! Graydoom, mage (nec 15 level), (Torture Master 15 level), to all who oppose Thay; he will be waiting espacally any harper agents. We should play again, I'll play a good pc if you want me to. Evil is so much better though. Yes I did join, and our differening oppions on the chosen, I still think Shar will take Mystra, then her chosen will fall. Or we can play in my fr and I can be nice and let the rest of the group play good pc's or evil their choice. :devil: I'll leave you a quate from Evil forrest Gump. "Evil is as Evil Does" Even good pc do evil acts, they just call it justice to ease their guilty feelings.
Lady Rolindin 11-29-04, 06:55 PM	It's not that, lets just say that you still are a smig of evil when you dming. I know that all dm's have to play both sides,but you like playing the evil more than the good.
redhase 11-29-04, 07:18 PM	Every dm is a little evil and some don't amit to being so, look at Paladin's. Lets say a Paladin of Helm, they kill in what they believe to be just cause for their god. Hum, maybe,but how does the other group that was attacked by the Paladin feel. Maybe they are normal folk and the Paladin saw somthing they think is evil to them, maybe the regualar folk do this all the time and its not evil to them. Holding captured Orc's as slaves, from the ones who got captured from a raid. But the Paladin will set the orc free, doesent like slavery, hum. Who comited the evil act the paladin or the people using the orc as a slave, the orc for trying to raid for food. All did accourding to each views! The humans in their point of view did nothing wrong, in the people eyes the orc needs to be punished for raiding the village or town. the orc thinks that being held is a evil act; all he did was try to get food (have you ever tried to ask humans for for when playing orc's, they attack orc's on sight), and the paladin who don't like slavery thinks the people are evil for being slaver owners. Hum, very intersting it all depends on your view. As far as empires goes it depends on your charator's view as to what is evil, pc from Slivermoon would say that, anyone from Thay, or the city of Shade are evil. While the pc from Thay would say they have the right to do what they want, because of their values. As fro the Shadador's they believe that if any race trys to stop them from digging up their old cites and outposts, nocity or state has the right to tell them to stop. If they do then the group or small army will be dealt with. And if the powers of Silvermoon try to stop them from digging their old outposts near Silvermoon then the sliver knights will be killed. It belongs to the shadavors not the Slivermoon people. I would not try to stop the shade's from digging at the old owlbear well in the north either, I know the powers of the north will try to stop them; bad mistake. Evil is what you believe it is plane and simple. :devil: Oh if you want to know one of your own a Harper double angent turned in your Harper! It was fun When Graydoom used the Redhase spell and turned the palatin to mush, he thought that was funny.
Lady_Firehawk 11-29-04, 09:43 PM	Hello! :wave: Mordmorgan the Mad sent me here... is there some kind of secret handshake I need to do to get in, or what? Ah, nevermind... ;) *pulls out DMG instead* Anyway, me and some of the other people I play D&D with have taken to switching turns DMing (different campaigns for each DM) and my card comes up pretty soon... I've DMed a grand total of once, and that's an affair I wish I could cast some kind of amnesia spell over because of how painfully craptacular it was, and suffice to say I do not want a repeat of that... I've kinda been building up a world for quite a while, so I do at least have a few tidbits to go from, but other than having a vague idea of what's going on in the world and who's doing stuff I'm really quite clueless. :lol: I guess it's not the planning I need help with quite as much as it is the execution... though that ain't saying much because the planning requires lots of help, too! :P Oh, and a little bit about me... I'm a girl, as my user name should indicate (at least you'd HOPE that I'm a girl! :evil: ), I'm 18 years old, I've been playing D&D for about... errrr, a year, other RPGs (mostly non-dice) for about five years, though I did play a little Star Wars with the d6 rules, very briefly. I also enjoy long, moonlit walks in the forest, and... oh, sorry, wrong forum for this, eh? ;) Anyway... hi! :D
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-29-04, 10:37 PM	What is it exactly you need help on?
ChaosEvoker 11-29-04, 10:53 PM	I also enjoy long, moonlit walks in the forest, and... oh, sorry, wrong forum for this, eh? :heehee Anyway, welcome Lady_Firehawk to the DMF. I hope you find many sources of wisdom and knowledge in this, my humble foundation. I'm truly proud of this foundation, it's surprised me and surpassed many of my expectations. Anyway, what are you needing help with exaclty Lady_Firehawk?
redhase 11-29-04, 11:06 PM	What ever you need any of us will help you, and don't be afraid to ask any question you need help with. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: Think about joining, that would be a great help to you.
ChaosEvoker 11-29-04, 11:08 PM	Uh, she already has joined. Once Xen gets back he has a members list to update.
redhase 11-29-04, 11:28 PM	We should all welcome Lady_fireHawk on board and help as needed.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-29-04, 11:32 PM	Welcome, to the realm of evil... :evillaugh So, what exactly do you need help with? By the way everyone, I would like to congratulate ChaosEvoker on the fact that the foundation is now huge! We have so many members! :clap:
Lady_Firehawk 11-30-04, 12:36 AM	Yeah, I'm joining. :D Mordmorgan invited me, so I took him up on it. :D Anyway, I'm in the process of getting characters pinned down; we rolled a d10 for random starting level and it came up a 7... 'cause starting at level 1 I'd probably end up killing them. :P If they'd gone and played evil characters I would've gone and TPKed them on principle, but it seems disaster in that area has been averted. Anyway, my particular challenge at the moment is trying to deal with having only two players-- there's others who come in occasionally, but the three of us are pretty much the core group. We usually end up with three characters... two PCs and a DMPC who, depending on the player either ends up with an annoying personality (the guy who DMs most of the time) or just sort of... hanging around. Mr. Annoying also happens to be one of those creative rule-bender types who could probably think a way out of pretty much any situation... he's been RPing a lot longer than I have, so outsmarting him is likely to be... errr, difficult if not impossible. I also want to do something besides just start by randomly chucking them into the middle of a module because that seems kind of... sloppy. Ideas on good lead-ins for an adventure, anyone? :D I know I'm starting out with a city-based module, but I'm trying to think ahead of how to branch off from that, and also about how to lead into it...
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-30-04, 12:58 AM	Hey Firehawk, I'm glad you made it. Which module are you running? I think Shard will probably have a whole page of possible lead-ins for your adventure, so I'll leave that one alone. (It's amazing how prolific she can be and yet still have fantastic ideas). What sort of things is "Mr. Annoying" doing? If you give me specifics, I can definitely give you something to counter it or at least challenge him. To Shard: you wouldn't happen to be gaming in dallas, would you? I suppose not cause my luck isn't that good.
Lady_Firehawk 11-30-04, 01:56 AM	Erm... one I found online, at RPG Vault... this one (http://www.rpgarchive.com/index.php?page=adv1&advid=656). :) (I'm going to scale it up considerably to reflect the fact that we're dealing with 7th level characters rather than 3rd to 5th level... I'm turning one of the NPCs into a Justicar, for starters. :D) As for Mr. Annoying, well, he's the sort who manages to make a flamethrower out of a torch and some vodka... using in-game rules. :D
Student Of The Mind 11-30-04, 03:24 AM	Erm... one I found online, at RPG Vault... this one (http://www.rpgarchive.com/index.php?page=adv1&advid=656). :) (I'm going to scale it up considerably to reflect the fact that we're dealing with 7th level characters rather than 3rd to 5th level... I'm turning one of the NPCs into a Justicar, for starters. :D) You might be setting yourself for trouble, giving them that many levels without them earning the experience leads to bad things. If they are not humbled players they could take the chance to walk all over your game, please be very careful. As for Mr. Annoying, well, he's the sort who manages to make a flamethrower out of a torch and some vodka... using in-game rules. :D The next time he tries to use this tactic, counter with a medium level drunken master. If he blows his "flamethrower" have the drunken master spit alcohol back in his face, setting the character on fire...If the player wishes to twist the rules, then you need to find better ways to twist the rules. Though becareful because what they see your NPC's do, they will try as well. If none of this makes sense, I've been trapped with family since Wednesday and my brain feels like well mutilated watermelon. Good gaming! :D
Mordmorgan the Mad 11-30-04, 03:24 PM	Hey SotM!!! Good to see you (and your excellent advice) again. Since my new campaign is starting soon, does anyone have any thoughts about this: I was thinking of giving Half-elves an extra skill point per level just like humans. No one ever plays half-elves in my game, and I think it's just because they don't seem on par with the rest of the races. I don't think one extra point will be too unbalancing, but I'd like your thoughts.
redhase 11-30-04, 04:32 PM	Half races are under appearcated and do carry some benfits form one race or the other. Half races should be looked at more made to bring out benfuts that they are due, I think an good ideal. :clap: Each half race is different charator and sould have standard benifits plus what ever extra the dm will give them, not all inheret the same abilities.
Lady Rolindin 11-30-04, 04:41 PM	Like we agreed and to Half races I say this , they don't inheret all the abilities of the parent race but do get some benifits. The dm should help you to decide and if a dm give extras to them thats good some times they need the help. And it s hard to believe that Rich Baker would say that some born with spell fire and changes to the shadow weave , will not get spell fire taken away from her. Its up to the dm then to decide if rich Baker thinks they can still use both then. Ashadow caster not having their spell fire taken away by Mystra, hum dm dision then!
redhase 11-30-04, 04:53 PM	If you think I'm evil then ok, but don't let the body types get you down and as for the shadow weave and using the spell fire ability dm's decide then if the wotc says the can. To me your dwarf mage is just as evil as Graydoom. She destroyed Luskan, She destroyed Blackstaff's tower, and made a dead magic zone. These are evil acts with in them selves. I know what your going to say about Blackstaff tower, a black dragon was using its breath weapon on Waterdeep and you dwarf mage used a spell and the dragon was killed and by random roll hit Blackstaff tower. It's just a litttle evil in it self. and still funny Blackstaff running aroundgoing who destroyed my tower, who did this! Mad as the hatter, screaming,that was funny. :schemes:
Lady Rolindin 11-30-04, 05:06 PM	Rolindin din't mean to destroy his tower the dragon just fly in the wronge direction, and for Luskan she told the arcan brotherhood to leave the dwarfs along. And to leave the dwarf ships alone, they didn't listen so she sent in a coulpe of tidal waves into the city. that was not evil, the incocent people in the city she feels bad about but not destroying the city. You know Mystra made her fix the dead magic zone she made, if their wasen't a small army of Red Wizards attacking her. MY dwarf mage would not have used the Poliris Blair, thus making a dead magic zone, and kill everone with in a mile radius. This is not evil to me, Red Wizards are evil and like your Graydoom you play him well. I can't tell the difference between you two when you play him. Ok Evil is what you think evil is to you, fine. I don't think my dwarf mage did a evil thing, just like Graydoom don't think what he does is evil. When is your next book comming out, I have a promational tour soon for mine.
redhase 11-30-04, 05:20 PM	At least you amitted that, it's evil accourding to how your pc thinks good, as for my next book, still working on it; I think that Blackstaff tower is funny, very funny it makes me laugh. Graydoom, as you know he's based off the joker, and such villians make good charators. Like the joker he might let you live or just kill you choatic evil does that. fun to play! Lets talk about the spell fire again, the books say Mystra will cut you off from the weave no matter what rich baker says. MY choice, no using the shadow weave and Mystra weave at the same time, I think your wrong rich on this one. Any who, I'm glad you are going to stay don't let the body thing bother you, if you want to use it in your world use it. I can but, a lot of bunus to add and subtract for evey in counter. to much trouble. :devil: :devil:
Shard of Suzail 11-30-04, 05:21 PM	I`m afraid I`m uk based, so far away from Dallas, sadly, Mordmorgan. Welcome Lady Firehawk. There are lots of creative people here, so together we should be able to give you some useful stuff to help you when your turn at GMing comes around. Contrary to what Mordmorgan says, it`s not just me with the good contributions. He`s always flattering me, which he really shouldnt do, since he is now a taken man. Then again, maybe those Dallas women are just troglodytes and he is seeking to trade up :P
Lady Rolindin 11-30-04, 05:28 PM	good to hear from you and we will help Lady_FireHawk, and rich your wrong om this issue a shadow caster born withspell fire abilty will loose it. the core books do say Mystra will take away your weave powers and cut you off. Thjis is a dm issue I go by what the books say, no shadow caster will can use the weave.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-30-04, 05:39 PM	I agree. All Mystra has to do is not supply them with Spellfire. It's not like "I hate you, but I have to give you the power". She just with holds it.
Lady Rolindin 11-30-04, 09:20 PM	This is not me, but from the new comers shadow weave thread Hi y'all, While I was about to give up on the argument, apparently Mr Baker supports my opinion that I could actually use the Shadow Weave and the Weave at the same time. Anyway, I thank you all for your advice. From the new comers shadow weave thread not me! I don't agree! Originally Posted by Richard Baker All good thoughts on the Shadow Weave, but I'm not sure I agree completely. Regarding your suggestions: 1. I'm not sure that it's strictly wrong that you use the Weave for your innate powers and the Shadow Weave for your spells. I think you could play it either way and it would work all right; I can see some Shadow Weave users choosing to pervert their essential magical nature in order to give themselves over completely to the Shadow Weave, while others might prefer to keep the Shadow Weave at arm's length and leave it as an intellectual exercise, so to speak. Anyway, I'm not willing to say it's errata. 2. I'm not sure I want Mystra turning off dragon breath or a ghost's incorporeality. 3. The Shadow Weave feats should probably be General rather than Metamagic, but again I'm not sure I would go along with the spell-like and supernatural angle. And regarding your questions: 1. I'd play it as it lies. The rules are pretty clear. But in principle I agree that a spellfire wielder ought to be completely blindsided by Shadow Weave magic. You could certainly Rule-Zero this in your game. 2. I'd be inclined to leave spellfire and silver fire as idiosyncracies of the Weave that Shar hasn't figured out yet. 3. If such a thing were possible, I think the character in question would just "drop off her radar." She'd probably notice the absence; I imagine that Mystra keeps half an eye on all Registered Spellfire Users wandering around. Her's from the thread and to say that a shadow user born with spell fire won't be cut off is somthing. I think the Simbul is not feeling good about the descion, I think its up to the dm's in their worlds to say now. What if a child of lareal and blackstaff inhereted sliver fire and the child uses the shadow weave that means by rich baker said that the child can use both, and Mystra not going to say anything about it, hum not in my world. I think the shadow caster's won on a issue! using both weaves at the same time.
ChaosEvoker 11-30-04, 09:42 PM	good to hear from you and we will help Lady_FireHawk, and rich your wrong om this issue a shadow caster born withspell fire abilty will loose it. the core books do say Mystra will take away your weave powers and cut you off. This is a dm issue I go by what the books say, no shadow caster will can use the weave. I agree. All Mystra has to do is not supply them with Spellfire. It's not like "I hate you, but I have to give you the power". She just with holds it. Unfortunately I think both of you are dead wrong. You are confusing Spellfire with Mystra's little weak Silver Fire copy of Spellfire. True Spellfire is not granted by the Weave or Shadow Weave. It is inborn and within the person and supplied by the person. No one can take it from them. Now Mystra's spellfire is granted to her Chosen, but its a weak copy and honestly, I doubt her Chosen are going to start using the Shadow Weave.
ChaosEvoker 11-30-04, 09:52 PM	@ CotDS Thanks for your congrats, it's really cool. I hope it keeps going strong. @Lady_Firehawk if your players creative like that, get creative back at him. The best thing you can do is do something unorthodox and unexpected. Crate a corrupted celestial and have them fight it. Give a fire subtype a ring of cold immunity. Get creative back and then make them have to change based on what they discover. @Mordmorgan Hmm...have them check out some of the Half-elf advantages before you add stuff. They have some nice immunities and such. Though do what you think is best. But I'm always leary of messing with races. Risks overbalance.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 11-30-04, 10:18 PM	Unfortunately I think both of you are dead wrong. You are confusing Spellfire with Mystra's little weak Silver Fire copy of Spellfire. True Spellfire is not granted by the Weave or Shadow Weave. It is inborn and within the person and supplied by the person. No one can take it from them. Now Mystra's spellfire is granted to her Chosen, but its a weak copy and honestly, I doubt her Chosen are going to start using the Shadow Weave. Oops, I guess I was thinking of the wrong one...
Lady Rolindin 12-01-04, 12:21 AM	the firsat two are posting from the thread, not me!. Choasevoaker this is a new rule richard Barker agreed to is that a spell fire user can also use the shadow weave at the same time. rich Baker said that it can't be taken away because being born with. Not the chosen, a shadow caster using spell fire, this will cause a reaction of the shadow magic items, because the shadow caster would have them on their body, boom rift.And spell fire burns off all cloths and such and magic items worn, i feel bad for them. on the new comers thread for the shadow weave, I think that the Simbul was just as mad as me when rich barker said this, bad descion. I would like to tell you why this is a bad dision, and then I'm not going to bring it up any more. a shadow caster born with the spell fire abilty, will have to read somthing like this in the next up dated fr campain setting. shadows casters born with the spell fire abilty can use this abitly, but ther can be proublems ata are caused by using the spell fire and shadow weave together. One is that they can open a rift in the planes,(note to dm's you have to have the Manulale of the Planes and the fr Campain setting, plus any planes you make. You also need to have all the Monster manuals, and creatures descriptions for ever creature in every plane.) Once a plane is accidently open all creatures with 100 feet will be pulled into the rift no saving throw. 2. Proublems with dming such a rule, such a rule will cause the dm to have to stop the game and add all the planes up and them role randomly to determain which plane the shadow caster just pulled the group into. The dm will have to call off the game and prepare and study the plane sent into, all creatures. What kind of envorment does it have, if fire plane what kind of fire creatures are waiting for attack the group. How many of the fire creatures go through the rift, what kind of creatures went through. 3. The chosen and Mystra. rich Barker says Mystra don't notice all the people who have spell fire, if a shadow caster who has the abilty I think Mystra will notice. Mystra might let the shadow caster off with a warning the first time, since he says Mystra can't stop them from using the spell fire. The second time the shadow caster opened a rift and the last chosen hasen't returned yet, Mystra not going to be happy. A. the chosen if having to go around closing the rifts because a shadow caster with spell fire caused anouther rift, won't be in a good mood, Say if it the Simbul and her sister Alustriel was sucked into the last rift and hasen't came back. She going to be in a bad mood and close the rift if the shadow caster is still in the realms, she going to hunt them down and kill them. If she pilled into the rift and so is the group, she will take back the ones she thinks is worthy and leave the shadow caster to deal with the planes ceatures them self. If the group is alive and not sucked into a void with no air, and kills the whole part. 4. How is the rest of the players going to react to knowing that one player has the spell fire abilty and a shadow caster, knowing that they could be pulled into a plane and never come back. 5. What about the young dm's that will have to deal with all this new information, alot will proubaly join a dm group like this for answers. How do I close the rift, how do I know what plane they went to, What will be Mystra reaction, What will be the chosen reactions, How many creatures are in this plane, how do I play the creatures, How is one of the chosen going to react to the shadow caster if sucked into the plane with them after closing the rift, this would be great for us, but bad for a young dm, too much to learn to fast. If the wotc does print the rule in their next campains settings book I'm going to black it out. to many proublems. Beside the rules already say that Mystra will take away any shadow caster use of Mystra weave if they turn to the shadow weave, and yes it does say that a spell fire that is by birth can't be taken away fine. Mystra can block it and not allow them to use it at all. I don't want to have to have the manual of the planes and all the monster manuals ever made for every plane, because a shadow user born with spell fire opens a rift in the planes. then paly a mad chosen whose going to be sucked into what ever plane, and then will kill the shadow user. Shake thier head while they now have to fight their way out of the (blank you put in plane) plane and they won't be happy either. Bad rule with to many proublems, this is one I don't agree with and won't use it. Bad rule, bad rule, what dou think of the rule ChaosEvoker.
Evandelé Morningstar 12-01-04, 12:55 AM	I`m afraid I`m uk based, so far away from Dallas, sadly, Mordmorgan. Contrary to what Mordmorgan says, it`s not just me with the good contributions. He`s always flattering me, which he really shouldnt do, since he is now a taken man. Actually he has been taken for almost five years but he just can't stop flirting. :angelhide . It's that damn Charisma 20 of his :drool: Then again, maybe those Dallas women are just troglodytes and he is seeking to trade up :P And thank Corellon I am not from Dallas.
Lady Rolindin 12-01-04, 12:57 AM	ChaosEvoker look it up for your self, rich Baker says a shadow caster born with spell fire can use both weaves, and Mystra won't take the abilty away I don't agree with him.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-01-04, 02:09 AM	I`m afraid I`m uk based, so far away from Dallas, sadly, Mordmorgan. What part? I used to live in West Byfleet, just about an hour train ride south west (if I remember right) of London. Actually he has been taken for almost five years but he just can't stop flirting. It's that damn Charisma 20 of his I am a horrible flirt, but at least I have good taste :D
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-01-04, 05:06 AM	This question is for all those folks who have had experience dealing with Dragon PCs (or who're really good guessers). I've decided to let Evandelé's newest character be a dragon, kinda. Basically the back story is that she was a brass dragon that is under attack from a tribe of gnolls. The gnolls are winning and are hunting her down quite effectively. The dragon asks one of her wizard friends to help her and the wizard transforms her into a 13 year old human. She loses all her draconic memories (including feats, skills, abilities et al) so that the gnolls can't track her through even the most rigorous magical means. Evandelé is planning on taking many of those Draconic Heritage feats from Complete Arcane (Richard Baker is my favorite WotC buddy for writing that book :D ). This will represent either the transformation begining to falter or her character remembering bits and pieces of her former life. Alright, now for the question: How do I change this small human child into a very young brass dragon and make it believable? The dragon has an ECL of 10 (LA +3 and 7 HD), so this won't be happening before she hits 11th level. I've read the chapter in Savage Species about becoming a monster, and I wasn't too thrilled with the suggestions. What I'm thinking of doing is some large quest to either reverse the ritual, but I'm coming up blank. I'd also like to know some of the downfalls to having a Dragon PC. (Keep in mind that Evandelé is VERY responsible with her power. She's had spellfire before and been a Chosen of Corellon and not abused it). P.S. It's like 4:00 am here in texas, so you'll have to forgive my tired ramblings. Please ask for clarification if you need it.
ChaosEvoker 12-01-04, 11:08 AM	@Lady Rondilin Your thinking is fundamentally flawed. TRUE SPELLFIRE IS NOT PART OF THE WEAVE AND IS IN NO WAY CONNECTED TO THE WEAVE. I repeat: TRUE SPELLFIRE IS NOT PART OF THE WEAVE AND IS IN NO WAY CONNECTED TO THE WEAVE. Therefore mystra has no power over it. Mystra has her own little verison of spellfire she gives to her Chosen, but it is NOT TRUE SPELLFIRE. *sighs* Ok... @Mordmorgan Ok..let's see. You could require them to obtain the Brass Orb of Dragonkind as the focus item of the ritual in order to bring back her heritage and memories. Then, of course, they'd have to deal with the gnolls hunting her. Who was this wizard friend of her characters? Was he part of a big wizard's guild? If so the PCs can get the guild to help them preform the ritual.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-01-04, 03:28 PM	@Lady Rondilin Your thinking is fundamentally flawed. TRUE SPELLFIRE IS NOT PART OF THE WEAVE AND IS IN NO WAY CONNECTED TO THE WEAVE. That's very true. @Mordmorgan Ok..let's see. You could require them to obtain the Brass Orb of Dragonkind as the focus item of the ritual in order to bring back her heritage and memories. I don't know if I want to put an artifact in (especially in the Realms), but I am thinking of creating some form of complex ritual involving esoteric material components that she must gather. Then, of course, they'd have to deal with the gnolls hunting her. Who was this wizard friend of her characters? Was he part of a big wizard's guild? If so the PCs can get the guild to help them preform the ritual. I haven't decided anything about the wizard yet. I'm thinking he'd be more of a hedge wizard, but agian, I don't have any clear ideas. Side Note: Hey! We hit 500 posts! Horray!
Student Of The Mind 12-01-04, 04:33 PM	This question is for all those folks who have had experience dealing with Dragon PCs (or who're really good guessers). Danger Will Robinson, Danger! I've decided to let Evandelé's newest character be a dragon, kinda. Basically the back story is that she was a brass dragon that is under attack from a tribe of gnolls. The gnolls are winning and are hunting her down quite effectively. The dragon asks one of her wizard friends to help her and the wizard transforms her into a 13 year old human. She loses all her draconic memories (including feats, skills, abilities et al) so that the gnolls can't track her through even the most rigorous magical means. I like the plot twist, but wouldnt it be easier...On you and your game if the character was just half-dragon? Maybe the child of the brass dragon that is being hunted? Giving a player the spotlight in the game will distract from the rest of the people around the table, unless of course you deliver each one an equally important plot...If you center the campaign around this dragon in human facade, the other players will sit there without care for the campaign and that's never good. This is also begging for the other players to feel left out, unless you allow them to create characters(half-celestial with strong bonds to the angelic parent) which will make things really hard on you. Just be very careful, Mordmorgan... Evandelé is planning on taking many of those Draconic Heritage feats from Complete Arcane (Richard Baker is my favorite WotC buddy for writing that book :D ). This will represent either the transformation begining to falter or her character remembering bits and pieces of her former life. Alright, now for the question: How do I change this small human child into a very young brass dragon and make it believable? The dragon has an ECL of 10 (LA +3 and 7 HD), so this won't be happening before she hits 11th level. I've read the chapter in Savage Species about becoming a monster, and I wasn't too thrilled with the suggestions. What I'm thinking of doing is some large quest to either reverse the ritual, but I'm coming up blank. I'd also like to know some of the downfalls to having a Dragon PC. (Keep in mind that Evandelé is VERY responsible with her power. She's had spellfire before and been a Chosen of Corellon and not abused it). An epic level ritual would be a good way to change the creature back...It would take a good long time to get the ritual. Shifting the focus from the dragon in the begining to the other characters as they reach high enough levels to actually preform the spell. You could make it so that the characters must go into the Plane of Dragons, and speak with Bahamut before the processes can take place. One last note...If she is humble with the power given to her, good...It's hard to find players like that, many would become arrogant. Anyways, those are just some rambling spats before I go to pinch peoples fat...God I hate my job! Good gaming!
Lady Rolindin 12-01-04, 04:51 PM	Here's the thread: The Shadow Weave for Newcomers Thread ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page ) in Forgotten Realms Magic main thread. The rule if I do allow a shadow caster with spell fire abilty will, open a rift in the planes. Plane and simple, look at what Elminster did when he countered the Shadovars, open a rift to the planes of hells. A shadow caster wearing shadow mafic items will come imnto contact with the spell fire and a rift will open. I can deal with the planes can a new dm, they will have lots of trouble, playing this part of it. The rule if put in a new Forgotten Realms Upadated Manual will have to have the warning that if a shadow caster useing their spell fire abilty, they can open a rift in the planes by using the spell fire and this could happen when coming in contact with shadow magic items. Silver Fire is a gift from Mystra, spell fire is a inate abilty that a person is born with, witch does draw power from the weave. Richard Barker said that Mystra did not know all the people who had the abilty. That he would not recomend a player use both weaves, why because he knows that if the weave power comes into contact with shadow magic items oozing with shadow weave a rift will open. True spell fire is not part of the weave,but draws power from it.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-01-04, 05:48 PM	Danger Will Robinson, Danger!Danger is my middle name. I like the plot twist, but wouldnt it be easier...On you and your game if the character was just half-dragon? Maybe the child of the brass dragon that is being hunted? Giving a player the spotlight in the game will distract from the rest of the people around the table, unless of course you deliver each one an equally important plot...If you center the campaign around this dragon in human facade, the other players will sit there without care for the campaign and that's never good. This is also begging for the other players to feel left out, unless you allow them to create characters(half-celestial with strong bonds to the angelic parent) which will make things really hard on you. Just be very careful, Mordmorgan...My game only has two players, so I'm not to worried about losing focus on the other player. Yes, it probably would be easier to make her a half dragon, but easy is reserved for rules, not plots and play in my game. I do appreciate the concern though. An epic level ritual would be a good way to change the creature back...It would take a good long time to get the ritual. Shifting the focus from the dragon in the begining to the other characters as they reach high enough levels to actually preform the spell. You could make it so that the characters must go into the Plane of Dragons, and speak with Bahamut before the processes can take place. I was thinking of something about like that. I've never done an epic campaign for a couple of reasons, but if this goes well, I might concider it. (My ELH feels so left out :weep: ) One last note...If she is humble with the power given to her, good...It's hard to find players like that, many would become arrogant. She's great when it comes to power. Her last character had spellfire and a scroll of wish at 12th level. She's terrified to use her spellfire because of a nasty run-in with the Cult of the Dragon, and she hasn't used her wish because she "doesn't want to waste it". Fact is, she's the big balance in my game. Anyways, those are just some rambling spats before I go to pinch peoples fat...God I hate my job! Bad guidance councelor? What job involves that??? :confused: To ChaosEvoker and Lady_Rolindin: STOP FIGHTING ABOUT SPELLFIRE!!!!!!!!!
Shard of Suzail 12-01-04, 06:20 PM	Ok then. Well, first off, Mordmorgan. Student of the mind raises some important concerns. After all, this player is your girlfriend/significant other, so be cautious lest you be accused of favouritism. I`m assuming that your group is a fairly mature one, so this is probably not a big issue. Nonetheless people can be funny, so be careful. Really i would just worry about the mechanics of it all. Plot is something you have well in hand, i would say. It shouldnt need an epic spell to fix her, after all, wish is a good spell and can do this kind of thing. I would say that, once her level becomes significant enough, then scrap the character and generate a young dragon character from scratch as a monstrous character. Do not try and make one character into the other, make a new character and have build it so that it reflects the skills and experiences picked up by the former self. It wont be perfect, but at least it will be a clean break that keeps with the rules. You say level 11 sounds about right, well, thats a good time to get it done. Once the dragon character is active, then it will have the chance to gain levels and so on as a normal character, in the usual way. It is possible that, as a child, it was a powerful wizard, but now it will have to make do with its innate sorcery and the usual dragon abilities. If a player has such a background, then they should be accepting of changes such as that. Should the player really want to hang on to a lot of the abilities from the old character, then i would say that the spell to change back fails. After all, the child is not the character or the true self of the dragon. If the dragon refuses to accept who it really is, then magic will not be able to force a change. The player will have to come to terms with being a character who could have been a dragon and refused the option in favour of leading a normal mortal life. Draconic feats and the sorcerer class are all, of course, things that such a character can pick up instead and have justification for. Such a change will have many downsides and will be traumatic indeed for all concerned. Memories will be lost, skills and abilities will no longer be present. Personality may well alter to a large extent. It would be a little like being in a virtual reality game for a few years and then getting out to the real world once more. There would be some common elements between the character and the person, but the character is not the person, merely a shadow. The character's friends will have to get to know the character a second time and some may well not be so keen this time around. In star trek terms, its like deep space nine's Dax character, who changes bodies and personalities every so often, but at the core stays the same. One time she is married to Worf, the next lifetime she feels not compulsion to carry on with that relationship and favours a new lover in the form of Dr Bashir. Same character, but different in many core ways. The new dragon will be like this. eck, it may not even have the same alignment as the human false form and it's class, if any, will be nonexistant compared to who it once was. You have a lot of room to do some vision questing stuff, with the player having to choose between the two lives and which it favours more. Only one person, dragon or human can own the soul and it is possible that they will have some sort of battle "in their head". Alternatively, there may be nothing so glamourous and mystical. The ending of the spell may be so brutal as to leave the newly minted dragon with hardly any recollection of who it was for the duration. There is certainly a lot of roleplay potential and i would explore it seriously and not necessarily in the way that is most comfortable to the player. It should be very challenging. After all, the character was living a completely false life. The player likewise was not playing the core character. The dragon could be considered, as such, an NPC under the gm's control. That could be quite frighting if the player is told that, should the change back occur, the character is lost (though this may not be the case). It should be a lot like dieing, in many ways. You should also consider the possibility that the character has been lied to. Perhaps it was not a dragon and that the memories are child fantasies or otherwise false hopes. Perhaps the memories are true, but are of a far ancestor, many generations removed from the dragon trouched bloodline. Again, there are issues to explore and it should not be made easy for the player. Feel free to alter the backstory in this way to keep it new to the player and to sow the seed of doubt in order to keep the story fresh. Saying "you turn back into a dragon" is a real let down. Using, instead, the above suggestions and then having those play out over a scenario or two could be very productive. You may even have the player elect to stay the same and not change. Lastly you have the dark option, where a powerful villain or magical accident separates the human from the dragon half and they literally become two characters, with the gm controlling the dragon. How will the player handle being the false half? It's a lot like the clone issues of the arnie film 6th day. Has a lot of potential, that one. What is your identity when the real you is made real and flies off under its own will, leaving you as a human girl with no amazing backstory any more? Would you crusade to kill the dragon and become it or would you set out to make your own identity anew? Things to consider, certainly. S.
Shard of Suzail 12-01-04, 06:27 PM	Oh yes, spellfire. Hmm. Well, I would say that it is a weave linked ability. I would say that it could be tuned to shadow or true weave, but that it is one or the other. Very darkside lightside in nature. Should it be tuned to true weave, then i would say that Mystra could turn it off, likewise for Shar if it was tuned to shadow weave. They wouldnt affect the ability, but would be taking away the ground it moves upon. A car only drives when it has a floor to drive on. Mystra controls one side of the road and Shar the other. The player chooses which side to drive on but had best be on good terms with the owner of that side, otherwise their car drives in empty air and gets nowhere.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-01-04, 06:49 PM	Yeah, I was thinking of Silverfire before. Also I don't think Mystra has as much control over the Weave as everyone thinks. Otherwise, any arcane spell-casters she didn't like who didn't use the Shadow Weave would just have their magic turned off. The Chosen would never have any problems with guys like Manshoon. I think she is limited in what she can do to the Weave. About the dragon thing, there is always the chance that something in the ritual goes wrong. Maybe it even accidentally destroys the dragon personallity.
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-01-04, 06:51 PM	Mystra doesnt turn off peoples powers because she grants them to all. People can use the magic however they want, they can blow up half the planet if they would like. She gives people the magic, what they do with it is up to them.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-01-04, 07:00 PM	Ok then. Well, first off, Mordmorgan. Student of the mind raises some important concerns. After all, this player is your girlfriend/significant other, so be cautious lest you be accused of favouritism. I`m assuming that your group is a fairly mature one, so this is probably not a big issue. Nonetheless people can be funny, so be careful. The other player has been a friend of mine since high school, and his character will almost definitely have something just as cool. (Last game he was a Chosen of Ulutiu trying to ressurect Othea so his god would return to power in Faerun). Really i would just worry about the mechanics of it all. Plot is something you have well in hand, i would say. It shouldnt need an epic spell to fix her, after all, wish is a good spell and can do this kind of thing. I would say that, once her level becomes significant enough, then scrap the character and generate a young dragon character from scratch as a monstrous character. Do not try and make one character into the other, make a new character and have build it so that it reflects the skills and experiences picked up by the former self. It wont be perfect, but at least it will be a clean break that keeps with the rules. You say level 11 sounds about right, well, thats a good time to get it done. I was actually thinking about that just before bed this morning. I don't think she'd have a problem with a complete character shift at all. Such a change will have many downsides and will be traumatic indeed for all concerned. Memories will be lost, skills and abilities will no longer be present. Personality may well alter to a large extent. It would be a little like being in a virtual reality game for a few years and then getting out to the real world once more. There would be some common elements between the character and the person, but the character is not the person, merely a shadow.Honestly, I think she'd have an easier time playing a dragon than a little girl. After all, the character was living a completely false life. The player likewise was not playing the core character. The dragon could be considered, as such, an NPC under the gm's control. That could be quite frighting if the player is told that, should the change back occur, the character is lost (though this may not be the case). It should be a lot like dieing, in many ways. You should also consider the possibility that the character has been lied to. Perhaps it was not a dragon and that the memories are child fantasies or otherwise false hopes. Perhaps the memories are true, but are of a far ancestor, many generations removed from the dragon trouched bloodline. Again, there are issues to explore and it should not be made easy for the player. Feel free to alter the backstory in this way to keep it new to the player and to sow the seed of doubt in order to keep the story fresh. Lastly you have the dark option, where a powerful villain or magical accident separates the human from the dragon half and they literally become two characters, with the gm controlling the dragon. How will the player handle being the false half? It's a lot like the clone issues of the arnie film 6th day. Saying "you turn back into a dragon" is a real let down. Using, instead, the above suggestions and then having those play out over a scenario or two could be very productive. You may even have the player elect to stay the same and not change. I LOVE this! I definitely want to have some conflict between the origional dragon and the new human form. The more the human learns and accepts (or taps in to) her dragon past, the more control her "inner dragon" has. All this power within her soul may begin to awaken and (possibly violently) burst forth from the frail human form. What if the PC becomes the dragon, but the human part survives the change intact as an NPC? The dragon may have gained a powerful ally, or possibly (and definitely more fun) a dedicated foe. This small, yet powerful child may seek to restore her lost dragon "soul" and possibly seek out this or other dragons to replace that void. It's possible that she would join with the Cult of Dragon in an effort to advance her power. Time to scheme :evillaugh
redhase 12-01-04, 07:38 PM	The ideal of the inner conflict betwwen the dragon feelings and humans is a good one, the pc will come out better having both feelings mixed and be able to understand more. If she ever turns back into a daragon again, she will understand humans better. I have been in contact with Lady Rolindin, and all she wants to do is let everone know about the descion, her opion is her's on the descion and I have mine about it to, like everone here does. She just wanted everone to know about it, that a shadow caster can use both weaves rich baker. :thinks: What other ideals have you came up with for her? :devil: Evil is as Evil does
ChaosEvoker 12-01-04, 11:16 PM	Hmm...no artifacts. Alright. I like, personally, messing with them, as long as the players dont get them. (Xen: NO COMMENTS!!!!!!) Shard, as always you make me feel like a newb DM, and I created this darn place......some day I hope to be that creative... Well aside form individual campaigns, we should get a massive topic going, though please continue to post your campaign querys. Any suggestions for a topic?
Lady Rolindin 12-01-04, 11:24 PM	How about we create a gem Lore Master class, and let any who want to help make the class? That way everone could starte using a gem lore master, I would start with a Wizard/ Sor as the base. The class could be a off shoot of the wiz/sor class. Thats what I made my class out of, but with everyones in put we could make a awsome gem spell casting wiz/sor.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-01-04, 11:25 PM	Hmm...no artifacts. Alright. I like, personally, messing with them, as long as the players dont get them. Yeah, I've never been one to include super powerful stuff, especially artifacts, just because I haven't found one yet that seems to have the proper effect for my game. As for a topic idea, I'm fresh out. All my energy is going to set up this new game, and it's proving to be more time consuming than I thought. We could do a little discussion on houserules as long as Dragonspirit doesn't show up. By the gods, he's an idiot.
ChaosEvoker 12-02-04, 10:57 AM	@Lady Rondlin If you have a creation, PM it to Xen155 and when he returns from where he is, he will put it in the DMF Artifact Corner (which is where we put all of our member's creations) Go ahead and create the class and we'll give you feedback once it's done. Which, btw, we need some more creations, if you ahve item or class or creature or ANYTHING, PM it to Xen or post it here. Has anyone's group ever killed the Tarrasque? I think the CR of 20 on the Tarrasque is WAY under what its true CR is.
Lady Rolindin 12-02-04, 02:58 PM	I made a Gem Master Lore class, and would like to post it. I would like everyone to make comments of improvements, and the such. This could be a group project and everyone could use the class. Then besides having wizards, everyone could have a gem wizard, who's spell book is inside a gem. Who uses gems for spells, such as lightning bolt, magic missles, every spell is cast from gems. Ther are evil gem casters, the gems inhance some spells.
Shard of Suzail 12-02-04, 03:34 PM	Post it up, Rolandin, so we can see it and pass comment. Making prestige classes is something that my skills dont fit, so i`m always interested to see others who can do it. On a side note *Orcy* does raise an interesting pojnt about Mystra on the previous page. A goddess of magic may well not be able to turn off the magic of others as it would go against her portfolio of promoting magic in all its forms. Would a god of war make efforts to stop a war against himself for instance? Logically no. Likewise Akrasia, goddess of wasted time, for those who know of her, even wastes the time of her own followers and ruins their plans in order to keep with her portfolio. Mystra is certainly in an interesting and difficult position. Does mystra have an alignment? If it isnt neutral, then maybe she could put some controls on the use of magic, but if she is neutral, i guess she wouldnt care on way or the other. Now, having Shadow weave may change that. After all, thats like the god of war waking up one day to find that someone else had invented "a different sort of war" that he wasnt god of. I can see a god of war in that instance certainly taking offense, however, logically, he wouldn't mind if some fellow out there with the "new war" techniques occasionally turned to the old ones and thus did him some homage. That, after all, would show that his portfolio still had a purpose, since followers of the new way still used his tricks once in a while, proving that sometimes they must be better. So, by that logic, Mystra would never turn off someones ability to use the weave, since she would want to try and win back a Shadow weave user to her camp, even if it was an occasional use of her magic type. Shar is in a different state of affairs though, since she isnt really just the god of magic (dark weave). Thus, she could turn off someones ability to use shadow weave without much worry. Then again, anyone wanting to use her weave is basically turning against Mystra's branded alternative, so one would think that any use of shadow weave is a good thing for Shar, even if the user dabbles in normal weave too. Thus, i would conclude, that only alignment of the deities concerned would dictate if they turned off their weave type from a user. This, however, would leave space for an opposite deity portfolio. Thus if mystra was a god of "magic as a force of good and order" then there could be a god for "magic as a force for evil and disorder" who had equal power level to her. Being a neutral god of magic seems the better way because though you lose some control, you eliminate the possibility of an opposite portfolio being created. So, due to all this, i guess i`ll take back what i said earlier, based on Orcy's thoughts. So, i would now say that neither Mystra nor Shar would disconnect anyone from either weave or shadow weave. Af anything, a god of strength or a similar god who actively fights against the use of magic, would be the one to try and cut off magic users from their source of power. This, however, would be more through clerical intervention or area control than direct godly tampering, i would say. Deep thoughts, Orcy, deep thoughts.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-02-04, 04:05 PM	A goddess of magic may well not be able to turn off the magic of others as it would go against her portfolio of promoting magic in all its forms...So, by that logic, Mystra would never turn off someones ability to use the weave, since she would want to try and win back a Shadow weave user to her camp, even if it was an occasional use of her magic type.Mystra does, in fact, possess the ability to cut off a spellcaster's access to the Weave. See the following quote: Deny Weave (unique divine salient ability): Mystra has the power to deny any creature, mortal or divine, the ability to access the Weave. Should she choose to do so, an affected creature cannot eploy any spell or spell-like ability for as long as Mystra chooses to block his or her access to the Weave. This ability has no effect on a creature's ability to access the Shadow Weave. Doing this is very draining for her, and so she only does it in extreme circumstances. Mystra's Refusal Deciding [who can use the Weave] is somewhat taxing for her, for every attempted use of the Weave by the target of this ability draws her attention and some small bit of her power...Such punishment is normally reserved for someone who has been abusive of magic, trying to inflict great harm to magic itself (such as by intentionally creating areas of wild or dead magic), or by researching spells of mass destruction, such as many of those known in Imaskar, Narfell, Netheril, and Raumathar. Such a being cannot acces the power of the Weave, cannot cast spells or use spell-like or supernatural abilities. Note the section in red. This indicates that Mystra does have the ability to deny a creature the ability to use Spellfire, which is a supernatural ability, as stated on pg.18 of Magic of Faerun. "Never underestimate the power of a literate man with too much free time." -Mordmorgan the Mad
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-02-04, 04:09 PM	While I'm thinking about it, I'd like to announce that Evandelé Morningstar is preparing to run her first ever game of D&D as a Dungeon Master. It'll be a one-on-one game with me (I'm going to play a sickly diviner who didn't really want to be a wizard in the first place). I'm encouraging her to post her plot questions here, so hopefully we'll see some good ideas.
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-02-04, 04:17 PM	Orcy never argued that she didn't HAVE the ability to cut people off from the weave, simply that she doesn't tend to USE that ability. Mainly for the very reason that she grants magic, as Orcy has said. What others do with that magic is up to them. Unless they try to destroy magic in some way. Spells of mass destruction are even allowed most of the time. Unless that person intends to destroy something important to her or to magic. That kind of thing. Orcy is sure he has seen something stating that Mystra can take away magic, but why would she? She tends to encourage the use of the weave, not take power away from those who use it. Because come on... what wizard hasnt cast a spell of mass destruction at some point? Eh? Eh?
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-02-04, 04:37 PM	Didn't mean any offense, Orcy. I was simply pointing out to those who may not be as knowledgable (sp?) that it's possible, however unlikely, for Mystra to use that power. I was also trying to put an end to the Spellfire arguement. Because come on... what wizard hasnt cast a spell of mass destruction at some point? Eh? Eh? Melincamp the chicken-wizard from BG I probably hasn't. He wouldn't survive.
Lady Rolindin 12-02-04, 04:44 PM	Yes my Charator Rolindin did go on a Tarrasque hunt with Lady Palaris, Redhase was there two (using a Netherilain mage). My dwarf mage had not been a Archarcanist for a long time. I do think that the Tarrasque Cr should be at least 25 or 30. The magic resistance it has, only use magical weapons against it. The Netheril made hunts out of the Tarrasque when they found one, something I would not enjoy doing. Lady Polaris lost over a hundred fighers to the creature. As for the two weaves again Rich Baker says that a inate inborn spell fire caster can use both weaves. Because the spell fire caster, won't be noticed by Mystra, and she can't keep track of all spell fire users. Ok Rich will go by ruling, but when the shadow caster with the spell fire abilty opens a rift in the planes, so be it let the party deal with it. I feel sorry for the new dm's, spell fire does draw power from the weave directly. And I think Mystra would notice a shadow caster who using spell fire.
redhase 12-02-04, 05:26 PM	So much fun to hunt, loved playing in Netheril times and going on hunts. for the cr 25 to 35 for me, it is way to low for such a powerful beast. The Netheril hunted them for their spells components the could make. JUst like the dragon hunts they had, fun to kill the parents and tame the young. It's not evil to hunt dragons and Tarrasque's Rolindin, it's a fun adventure that helps to build chararter's. Should you post Amdror's personal Mythallar's or should I. The Netheril did make Amdor's personal Mythallar's one foot radius to asborb into their bodies. Gave them better access to the weasve, just have to survive the will save. If not you die, if you live you can draw power from the weave directly, the spell fire talk made me think of this. MOre than spell fire abilty, could be where it some of spell fire abilties came from. The Netheril using the mythallar's, Hum and Rolindin you can not remove your's its stuck inside your dwarf forever, that's what you get for wanting to let the dwarf get pregnant. The Tarrasque are fun to hunt, if you want to talk about this more we can. Lady Rolindin din't like hunting them, I do very hard to kill and such fun. Evil is as Evil does :devil: Rich Barker I'm still don't believe the descion. :shocked:
ChaosEvoker 12-02-04, 05:36 PM	*reareads stuff about spellfire in FR* hmm...well what do you know....I guess I read that wrong. I 've read this book several time through too.... @Rondlin If those comments were targeting me, I am not a new DM. Beign mistaken on one point is not a good enough basis to judge someone's DMing experience. @Others Yeah I've brought the tarrasque in a couple of times. At lv 25 my group couldn't kill it so I'm thinking th CR is off....Are there any other monsters you guys feel that a CR adjustment would be in order for?
Lady Rolindin 12-02-04, 08:22 PM	the commits on rich bakers descion is for new dm,s not one's with experance who can use the manuale of the planes. A shadow caster with spell fire, will have a shadow staff or wand, and when spell fire engulfs over the shadows casters body it will come into contact with the shadow magic item. When this happens a plane rift will open on the shadow caster's body, new dm's who know of rich bakers new rule will have trouble with the planes, which plane was the party sent to, what creatures are in the plane and so forth. We can handle this a new dm doing this their first or second time will have trouble with this. That is what i mean they will have to come to threads like this one for help, and others threads to ask for help. I can handle this, I know a new dm will have trouble with this. Unless they have a experanced player who can help them with the planes and how to get the party back. Like Isaid before, i'll use the new rule but if a shadow caster uses spell fire and it hits a shadow staff or wand a plane rift will open up no saving throws, no spell resistance everone gets pulled into the rift. A shadow caster can use both weaves who would have know! As a new dm when I did this my first time, if a shadow caster had opened a plane rift it would have given me trouble. I have played in the planes and taken patries to different planes as i am sure you have. We have the experance to deal with this, a new dm will have trouble with this issue. I did not say that you could not hande it, but a new dm would. I would expect dm joining this thread to find out how to deal with this issue once it hits the fr worlds out there.
Lady Rolindin 12-02-04, 09:28 PM	I had to hurry and type my notes on the class, I have things to do like the srest of you. Took a few days to type becuase of time, had to transcribe my hand written notes. Gem Lore Master Gem Lore Master’s use the magic in gems and puts magic inside gems, and are able to read the magic held within. This is done an inner born magic that is brought out through training with a Master Gem Spell Caster. A gem lore master uses the spell like abilities of the gem as a spell book, and is an off class the Sorcerer/ Wizard class. A gem lore class substitutes ground gems of different types to cast spells, and can substitute ground gems of different types for spell components. For instance on lightning bolt the gem lore master will use a diamond or ruby dust instead of the bit of fur and amber, crystal or a glass rod. This ability comes from their ability to concentrate and use one kind of gem dust. Their spells cost them more because of using gem dust of different types. That’s why you find most of them working in large cities and studying under a Gem Lore Master. They have different types of spell’s they can use, Gem skin( 7th level, turns the casters skin into the type of gem holding), Greater Gem Skin (16th level Turns the casters skin hard as a diamond),Eye’s of gem’s (10 level, turns the casters eyes so they reflect gaze attacks at will), read gem magic (4th level reveals any gem spells, maps and activation words for spells in gems), read greater gem magic (12th level lets the caster see in their mind everthing in the gem from maps to gem spell books, proctection spells cast on gems, any words for glypes or wards on a map, deactivation words for traps and what ever else is put inside the gem). Gem Lore Masters direct their inner powers through gems, and use gems as spell books and to cast magic spells from. When studying their spell’s they use a spell book until they reach fifth level, where they can cast spells permanently into gems at will and make the spells permanent. At forth level they get the read gem magic bonus and can cast it at will. Till they get the permanency spell ability they have to use a spell book like a Wizard or Sorcerer, and then use their ability to cast spells into gems. At first level they get, gem cutting, appraise gems, concentration gem magic spells; because of their training with gems they get the bonuses. They start working with gems at 0 level, and skills to choose from for the class are, spot gems, knowledge (arcane gems spell casting), use magic devices (gems), bonus languages gem lore, draconic. Intelligence, wisdom, and constitution need at least a score of 10 for each, because they can accidentally blow up a gem in their face and worse by using the power of the gem, and channeling their energy through it. The better the score they get more benefits for the class. Gem Lore Master’s cast spells through gems, see level chart for attack bonuses, and use the wizard progression chart for spells levels. The class gets the same chart bonuses on page 8 of the Player’s Handbook used for spell bonuses. Gem lore Master will save all gold or silver they gain through adventuring, to be made into a staff or wands(once they learn the Craft Wounderus Feat). They will make a staff of gold or silver with gems embedded in the staff, If one watches him or her you can see that they touch different gems while casting spells. A staff has a head of a gem worth 2,500 gold pieces or more, a wand while cast spells the caster will hold the wand by the gem in their hand with the metal or wood part pointing towards the target. The staff will have gems all around the body, and each gem serves a different purpos. A staff is highly decarated with carvings of animals or dragons, vines and more. This depends on the caster to decide the design. The cast can have up to six gems for their spell books, gems to hold spells for offence and defence, the caster will touch the gem to cast the spell or trigger word. Untill they make a staff, they will use pockets to hold their gems, in a robe or cloak. The size and value of gems determaine how many spells they can hold. 100 gold pieces 1 spell 259 gold gieces 2 spells 500 gold pieces 3 spells 750 gold pieces 5 spells 1000 gold pieces 10 spells 1500 gold pieces 15 spells 2,000 gold pieces 20 spells 2,500 gold pieces 25 spells To store maps and spell books, deactavation words for glyphs or wards, history of place or person, the caster will choose a gem worth 2,500 gold pieces or more. The cast spells with trigger words into gems between 100 gp and 500gp to use when needed. Many types of gems are used by the caster, tiger eyes, diamonds( white, blue,) Quartz, rock crystal, jasper, this is for the caster to decide what kind and the value. Adventures Gem Lore Master’s are causus when adventuring with preparation and always having a gem close by to defend them self with. Gem Lore Master’s seeks knowledge, power, and the gems to conduct their studies; it would not be surprising to see more than one gem lore master adventuring together. Since at higher levels they can heal them selves with they powers of the gem. Characteristics The Gem Lore Master’s strength is his or her spell they channel through the gems, they learn new spells as they experiment and grow in experience, and can learn from wizards and sorcerers, and other gem lore master’s they meet. They learn to use the gems in different ways than a wizard does and can become quite deadly with a gem in their hand. Gem Lore Master’s prefer to specialize in a certain type of magic school; this makes them more powerful in their chosen field. This type of specialization can deny them access to some spells that lie out side their field (see school specialization page 57 of the Player’s Hand book). Like a sorcerer, wizard; the gem lore master can have a familiar (these could be their only friends because of their obsession with gem magic). Alignment Like wizards, and Sorcerers a gem lore master tend to be lawful, because the study of magic rewards those who have discipline, but this not always true there have been told of gem lore masters who use their gift for evil. Religion Gem lore masters revere the god of magic, (Boccob in the players hand book, or Wee Jas the God of death and magic. While other worlds like the forgotten realms will have Mystra the God of magic and Shar with the dark weave magic), Gem Lore Masters are in general are more devoted to their studies than to their spiritual needs, but some do worship the gods of magic depending on how they use their gem magic. Background Gem Lore Masters know each other when they see each other as comrades or rivals, even gem lore masters from different cultures or magical traditions have a lot in common, because they all conform to the same laws of magic. Gem lore masters see themselves as being different that wizards and sorcerers, for they use the power of gems for magic and through a gem can be more powerful than them. They sometime join a magic guild, but most wizards and sorcerers some time look down on them, in their opinion of the guilds. The one’s that do join are usually more powerful before they choose to join a mage guild; they want to be recognized for their abilities with gem magic. Others join for the discounts on gems they can get a hold of and the spells available to them. Races Humans take to magic for a lot of reasons, curiosity, ambition, lust for power, or for personal reasons. Humans gem masters are practical innovators, creating new spells or using old spells creatively. Elves are enthralled by magic, and many of them become gem lore masters for the love of the art. Elf Gem Lore Masters see them selfs as artist: and they hold magic in high regard, and as a wondrous mystery, as opposed to the more human gem masters. Gnome illusion gem masters use more illusion spells than would a human or elf gem master. The gnome illusion master will use this field more because they are more gifted in this area. Alignment: any Hit die: d4 Skill points at 1st level (2 + Int modifier) X 4 Weapons and armor, gem lore masters like the wizard and sorcerer class can use a club, staff, dagger, crossbow of any kind, and quarter staff, a lore gem master quarter staff or staff will be different than a wizard or sorcerer. They will have gems embedded in them with powerful spells to cast when needed. They cannot wear armor or use a sword, armor or shield. These interferes with the casting of gem spells, and might cause them to be miss fire. Some fighter, gem lore masters have been know in the past, but if they take a dual class they have to have open arms to move and cast their gem spells, a breast plate at the most for the duel class fighter mage. Spells Gem Lore Masters cast arcane spells (the same as wizards and sorcerers and bards), which are drawn from the Sor/Wiz spell list on page 192 of the players Hand Book. The gem lore caster must prepare their spells in advance, by having the gems dust where they know it is at all times. They will have spell studied at their level and ready once they have studied the spells. The gem lore master must have (Int, wis, con of 10 or better, 10 + spell level for O level spells. 11 for each for 1st level gem spells, and so forth, they use the same difficulty class saving throw against a wizard spell, spell is 10 + the spell level+ the gem caster intelligence modifier. Like wizards, a gem spell caster can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. This daily base spell allotment is given below (same as wizard + bonus spells and ability’s are different). In addition, they receive bonus spells per day if they have a high Intelligence score (see table 1-1: Ability modifiers and bonus spells, page 8 of the Player’s Hand book). A gem spell caster must choose and prepare their spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and studying their spell book or spell gem for 1 hour. While studying, the gem spell caster decides which spells to prepare (see preparing wizards spells, page 177 of the Player’s Handbook. This depends on the level of the gem spell caster, if below forth level they still use a book to study and put the spells into gems to use later, or in their mind or both. If a fifth level or above they will have their spell book in a gem of their choose and will be able to study the spells in the gem. They need to not be disturbed or they can’t input the spell information in their mind or in a blank gem for releasing of the spell latter. Bonus Languages: A gem lore caster gets Draconic and gem lore as bonus after O level, (fresh out of school). Familiar A gem lore caster can obtain a familiar in exactly the same manner as a wizard, or Sorcerer, but they tend to be more exotic for the gem lore caster. At higher levels they tend to make magical animals made out of gems and endow them with powers to benefit themselves. Scroll Scribe Like the wizards and sorcerers, gem caster at first level gains scribe scroll as a bonus, but a gem caster will gain the ability to cast spells into gems as a scroll or spell for defense. They trade these gems among themselves, when around other gem casters. Level Base Attack Fort Save Ref Save Will save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Summon Familiar, concentration, gem cutting,Spell casting into gem with trigger word, Scribe scroll 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2nd +1 0 0 +3 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 4 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Reveal gem lore 4 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Permanency spell casting into gems + bonus feat 4 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 4 3 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Gem Skin 4 4 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 4 4 3 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 4 4 4 3 2 1 0 0 0 0 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus feat + Eyes of gems 4 4 4 3 3 2 0 0 0 0 11th +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 0 0 0 12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Greater reveal gem lore 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 0 0 0 13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 0 0 14th +7/+2 +4 +4 Healing 1 hit points per three levels 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 0 0 15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Bonus feat + gem lore feat 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 0 16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Greater Gem skin 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 0 17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +1 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bonus feat + gem lore feat 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 Extra gem lore masters feats; split magic missle +2 hit and damage, gem mage shield+6 to ac, split lightning bolt +2 damage and to hit Special Ability: Gem Lore Master’s or gem spell casters get benefits that apply to the class, such as while casting through a gem they get a +2 to hit and +d8 damage for channeling through a gem and multiplying it’s power. Gem Lore caster and Masters get many other benefits for the class, according to their level see level chart. A gem spell caster not yet a master can at first level can cast spells into gems and then cast the spell when needed. Then cast another spell into the gem after the first spell is used, they can use the gem over and over doing this. At higher levels they will be able to up to three spells into one gem (ten level). At fifth level because of their training a gem caster will be able to cast his or her spells into a gem via permanency (through their training and concentration skills), they will no longer need a spell book of paper. He or she can by sheer force of will power cast all of their spells into one or more gems, a higher gem spell caster will have different gems for their lower spells on a Gem (diamond), mid level spells in a gem (ruby), and their highest levels in a better quality gem (blue diamond). Only a gem lore master can open the spells and other things in the gems, a read magic will only tell a mage that it is a map or one word. A gem lore master has the ability to open the inner secrets of the gems, cast one thousand years ago or yesterday. See spell levels for bonuses. Other wizards who have the gem spell training can open the gems contents that’s inside them, a regular mage can only reveal words or maps if not blocked. Other Classes: Gem Lore Masters prefer to work with members of other classes, the prefer to cast from behind fighters and strong paladin’s. They can cast spells into gems and then them give to other party members to use. This could help the rouge or even a cleric if they have to defend them selves. They may be inquisitive of other mages they meet, and trade spells for one they don’t have. They work well with wizards and sorcerers and will try to trade spells with them if any is in the group.
ChaosEvoker 12-02-04, 09:35 PM	not bad, but until you tell us what the special powers do, that is very very close to the wizard class.
Lady_Firehawk 12-02-04, 11:17 PM	Update-- still trying to scramble stuff together, I did settle on that module I linked to earlier, but the three of us agreed to take it down to level 4... which is a decent level for the module I picked out. :) (Oh, Mystra, this is going to suck... *nibbles fingernails*)
Lady Rolindin 12-02-04, 11:23 PM	It is a wizard,but they focus their all their spells through gems, and use the gem as their spell book. the gem gives them more power and focus the spells for greater damage. The gem spell caster only use gems and not the ingedants other wizards use, thus making it harder on them for the cost of spells. I havent had much time to prefect the class, I would like others to point out what I missed and to refine the class. as for the specail powers, eye's of gems allows gem caster eye's to reflect glaze attacks at will, all spells are cast through gems not like a wizard. Gems are used as spell books at 5th level and to store magic spells for offense and defenive spells, gem skin the caster can turn his skin hard as the gem he holds.Revel gem lore the gem caster can open most of what is stored by a gem caster, they do this through will power.Greater reveal gem lore master is ten level or above and when they use this feat they can revael any greater, spells, history,spell books, activation words for traps in toms inprinted into gem. What ever the last gem lore master imprinted on the gem,could be alot depending on how much a gem can hold by size.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-02-04, 11:35 PM	Update-- still trying to scramble stuff together, I did settle on that module I linked to earlier, but the three of us agreed to take it down to level 4... which is a decent level for the module I picked out. :) (Oh, Mystra, this is going to suck... *nibbles fingernails*) I'm glad you guys talked things out and lowered the level. To Lady_Rolindin: That sounds more like a PrC than a base class, especially with a feature that allows gaze attacks to be reflected. An ability like that is fairly potent, and would probably be at least level 7 in a 10-level PrC.
Lady Rolindin 12-02-04, 11:45 PM	You could be right on that, that's why I posted it here to get reactions and improvements. If more agree then I will change it to seventh level, you could be right.
ChaosEvoker 12-03-04, 07:16 PM	I'm definately going with Mordmorgan on this one. You need to turn that into a 10-level PrC. @Lady_Firehawk Good luck! Have confidence!
Lady_Firehawk 12-04-04, 03:48 AM	It was more like... Me:Seventh level's too high for a beginner DM. How about we take it down lower? Them: Yeah, you're kinda right about that. What level? Me: I'm thinking fourth, I guess... Them: Okay. Fourth it is. Me: Now go do your character sheets, ya stooges. :P Sometime next week... hehehe.
Xen155 12-04-04, 08:56 PM	Guess whos back, dum dum dum, back again, dum dum dum, XEN IS BACK XEN IS BACK, dududu. Hello Everybody! Question: 1.Are the followinf people members: Evandelé Morningstar redhase Lady_Firehawk 2.Is the Gem masa class completed or should i hold off on putting it in the DMFAC? 3.HOW YALL DOING?
Shard of Suzail 12-04-04, 09:30 PM	Well, i`d say that, when making prestige classes, the best way to go about it is to start with a five level class. Find the most important and interesting powers and work them in. Once this is done, you will know if there is enough strong stuff left over for it to deserve being made into a ten level prestige class or not. Ability wise, most prestige classes tend to have about three or four abilities. They also tend to have one or two features that grow as more class levels are taken. The spaces between the new abilities are filled up with these growing powers as padding. So, getting this gem caster into a 5 level Prestige class would be quite interesting to look over. *** On the subject of gem magic, it looks close to the idea of the candle caster prestige class, ie using an object as a magical focus. It is too focused to be a base class. Strikes me as a bit wierd and will appeal to some a lot and others not at all, like the green star adept et al.
ChaosEvoker 12-04-04, 11:13 PM	Guess whos back, dum dum dum, back again, dum dum dum, XEN IS BACK XEN IS BACK, dududu. Hello Everybody! Question: 1.Are the followinf people members: Evandelé Morningstar redhase Lady_Firehawk 2.Is the Gem masa class completed or should i hold off on putting it in the DMFAC? 3.HOW YALL DOING? 1)Yes 2)Not complete 3)Just fine thanks. THe problem with 5-level PrCs is that they gain powers quickly.
Lady Rolindin 12-05-04, 12:10 AM	I got the ideal a few years ago when I read a book, that featured mages who only cast spells through gems. They would inprint maps and history, events and more. The gem focues the power of the spells and amplafies the spell power. yes redhase is a member now(evil has arrived)
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 12:18 AM	Guess whos back, dum dum dum, back again, dum dum dum, XEN IS BACK XEN IS BACK, dududu....Tell some men? 3.HOW YALL DOING?Better ever since I found a cool new trick with my sig. Check it out.
ChaosEvoker 12-05-04, 12:21 AM	I've seen that around, how do you do that?
Lady Rolindin 12-05-04, 01:20 AM	the class is not yey done, I'm having peopl look at it and see where and what they think of, improvments and such. To everone I have been working on this class for about two years trying different things and abilties. The class is a good one once over fifth level and their channeling abilty through the gem makes spells more powerful. Ihave tried to play nec class with this gem class, makes a good bad guy. Escapally when they put proctection words and wards on their gems, nice gem caster don't like to touch nec gems. they could wind up in ashes.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 01:24 AM	To create This type this: [sblock]Insert Spoiler[8/sblock] remove the 8.
Xen155 12-05-04, 01:31 AM	the class is not yey done, I'm having peopl look at it and see where and what they think of, improvments and such. To everone I have been working on this class for about two years trying different things and abilties. The class is a good one once over fifth level and their channeling abilty through the gem makes spells more powerful. Ihave tried to play nec class with this gem class, makes a good bad guy. Escapally when they put proctection words and wards on their gems, nice gem caster don't like to touch nec gems. they could wind up in ashes. When its done (I wont be giving advice or anything like that, Im terribly busy) just pm it to me Lady.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 01:56 AM	Must be exam week (everywhere but in Kansas). Gosh I love that thing.
Lady_Firehawk 12-05-04, 02:48 AM	Hey, this IS kinda fun. :D I think I'm going to go peruse the rest of this thread... first time DM trying to run a murder mystery out of a module, whaddaya think? :P
Student Of The Mind 12-05-04, 05:16 AM	I think I'm going to go peruse the rest of this thread... first time DM trying to run a murder mystery out of a module, whaddaya think? :P Make sure they dont get their hands on Zone Of Truth, Find The Path or Locate Object...I know I missed some, but these spells might spoil your entire campaign. Becareful when you give out anything with these powers...Hope that helps. You're also very brave to run a murder mystery your first time out. Good gaming.
Lady_Firehawk 12-05-04, 05:44 AM	Ah... those spells (or any spells for that matter!) will not be a problem, as the scenario calls for a ban on magic use within that town... it's the mayor and his wife who got murdered, after all. And by some sort of magic, but that's all people know. :D (Which was the reason for the ban, hehehe.)
ChaosEvoker 12-05-04, 09:46 AM	AH very nice. Quite bold to run a murder mystery. I hope it goes well. Anything else you need advise for?
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 03:52 PM	I ran a murder mystery in Ravenloft once. I run the land of mists as a Very low magic setting (arcane casters present, but obscured in the occult, divine casters present, but most priests have no casting abiility), so spells like that could only be cast after a lot of effort, usually by contacting devils or with special rituals. The real trick to a mystery is to know all your NPCs in-side-out. I had 12 possible murderers and a full background, possible phrases, motives, relationships, possible areas to encounter them, and just about everything else you'd need to know. What made the adventure the most fun for me was that I didn't know who committed the murder until the PCs decided. I didn't decide before the adventure, but I made a choice based on what the PCs discovered, and what would make the adventure the most fun. I don't recomend doing that if you're new to DMing, but once you get the hang of it, it's a lot of fun. Side note:I submitted a suggestion to Michael Morris, the guy who makes all this Spoiler stuff possible. I asked him if we could put a description near the "Spoiler:", so a spoiler about Dragons would appear as "Spoiler: Dragons". I hope Mel'll let him do it. :D
TheDarkTide 12-05-04, 05:42 PM	Ahhhhh, Excellent a place exclusivly for DMs. I would like to join. Is thier anything I need to Know about the Dungeon Master Foundation?
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 07:05 PM	Ahhhhh, Excellent a place exclusivly for DMs. I would like to join. Is thier anything I need to Know about the Dungeon Master Foundation? I usually like to let ChaosEvoker make the anouncements, but there isn't anything you really need to know. How long have you been playing?
TheDarkTide 12-05-04, 07:28 PM	About 3 years, DMing mostly.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 07:37 PM	Tell us more about your DMing style, what kinda players you've got, more stuff about your group, etc.
TheDarkTide 12-05-04, 07:40 PM	My Dming style is usally an epic journey to do something to prevent the destruction of something. My players are a bunch of recent 2e conversions who are complete rule and detail freaks. I have 4 main players and 3 other people who we occasionaly get ahold of. We play on the weekends when nobodys working. The scene would remind you af a Texas Hold'em game.
Shard of Suzail 12-05-04, 07:44 PM	Only one mystery game that i have played stands out, to my memory. We were basically hired to solve the mystery of random thievery that was going on in a nearby town. There were lots of minor thefts occuring, with money, items and so on vanishing without trace. Noone had seen the thieves and patrols around the town had drawn a blank. After some investigation, we found a time pattern to the thefts and also discovered a second mystery. The local herbalist had had some of his flowers stolen, but in their place was left a selection of alien plants, the likes of which he had never before seen. Eventually, we spotted one of the thieves taking a plant and making off into the town centre. He then broke into a house and stole some food. We rumbled him and gave chase where he ran into a small store house and promptly vanished. The next week we chased the thief again. We staked out the flower patch and immediately confronted him. Strangely, he ran off and made straight for the same small building that he had vanished into previously. This time we gave much closer pursuit and bundled into the doorway before he got the chance to close it behind him. And we ended up in Sigil, the city of doors. It turned out that the flowers were a local gate key for a timed planar portal. The thief concerned had a dubious code of honour that meant he only took what he really needed and that he left compensation for that which he took (the alien plants being one such example). Some items were taken and then replaced at a later date, though we didnt know about these, since the locals thought they had just mislaid them. It was an interesting way to get us involved in planescape and the idea of planar portals was new to us all. These days, players would probably presume it to be the antics of an ethereal filcher. Nonetheless, the portal hopping bandit can be a good little side quest to work into any game, especially where an introduction to sigil is needed.
ChaosEvoker 12-05-04, 09:20 PM	AH! TheDarkTide!!! Welcome to the DMF! NEW MEMBER! Xen, get to work! ;) Thanks for letting me make the announcement Mordmorgan. :D
redhase 12-05-04, 09:35 PM	How about using spy rocks, they make others look like city officals. The spy rocks make the spy look like the person and they can access the sprit inside the rock and look at the persons memories. This allows them the knowledge of the information the sprite of the offical has, makes a good plot for groups. The mage guild hires the group to be servants in the city offical house and spy on the offical who's been acting strange, not them selves. It could be a mage or some other offical. Have tryed this and this works, a shadavor trick. :devil:
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 09:50 PM	Thanks for letting me make the announcement Mordmorgan. :D I know you get a kick out of those things.
ChaosEvoker 12-05-04, 10:06 PM	YEah I do...if I was feeling more up to tediousness I woudl mess with the HTML....anyway. How often do you guys make homebrew creations and such?
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 10:31 PM	How often do you guys make homebrew creations and such? I use a lot of "official" stuff, but I always tailor it to our current game. As far as races, classes, PrCs, monsters, etc. I never create any of that. Not because I can't, but because I find that there's enough out there already, especially because I convert my old 2e stuff when I need to. I see a lot of these posts on the D&D boards about people creating things right and left, and I always think of some monster or kit or something from 2e that was fairly similar. I don't know. Maybe I'm just weird, or worse, boring, but whatever.
ChaosEvoker 12-05-04, 10:35 PM	I use a lot of "official" stuff, but I always tailor it to our current game. As far as races, classes, PrCs, monsters, etc. I never create any of that. Not because I can't, but because I find that there's enough out there already, especially because I convert my old 2e stuff when I need to. I see a lot of these posts on the D&D boards about people creating things right and left, and I always think of some monster or kit or something from 2e that was fairly similar. I don't know. Maybe I'm just weird, or worse, boring, but whatever. Yeah I know what you mean. But Items can be really creative. As for monsters and classes I agree. Though I ahve seen a FEW good creations that I haven't seen anything particularly similar to.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 10:43 PM	Yeah I know what you mean. But Items can be really creative. I own all four volumes of the Encyclopedia Magica, and I tend to be fairly cheap with the treasure anyway (I don't know why).
ChaosEvoker 12-05-04, 10:44 PM	I haven't even HEARD of that, what is it?
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 10:55 PM	It's a four volume text from 2e that contains every magical item from every setting TSR made up until November of 1995 (all the books together are like 1,665 pages long). If you can find all four books, buy them cause they're worth it. (It's even got artifacts and magical items that appear differently in different sources.)
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-05-04, 11:44 PM	Did you guys know our own Lady Firehawk is an artist? Follow the yellow brick road (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=199670&page=1&pp=30) to her gallery.
Lady_Firehawk 12-06-04, 01:05 AM	I'll be able to do requests once I get rid of my backlog of them... lol. That reminds me, though... before I can draw much of anything I need new art pens. :) Anyhoo... still slightly shady on whether or not to do the murder mystery (though it's a change of pace from our group's usual fare) but it's launching the rest of the campaign I'd need the most help with. Trying to figure out where to go besides just randomly doing stuff, creating a story arc, world building, that kind of thing.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-06-04, 02:56 AM	I'll be able to do requests once I get rid of my backlog of them... lol. That reminds me, though... before I can draw much of anything I need new art pens. :) Anyhoo... still slightly shady on whether or not to do the murder mystery (though it's a change of pace from our group's usual fare) but it's launching the rest of the campaign I'd need the most help with. Trying to figure out where to go besides just randomly doing stuff, creating a story arc, world building, that kind of thing. Many people start out with a BBEG (or big bad evil guy), but I like to picture interesting locations and decide how to connect them, and what sort of mischief I can hold there. Let us know how we can help :D
ChaosEvoker 12-06-04, 11:37 AM	Lady_Firehawk have you played Torment?
Lady_Firehawk 12-06-04, 12:23 PM	No, but I do have the Manual of the Planes handy somewhere... ;)
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-06-04, 04:26 PM	Lady_Firehawk have you played Torment? It's too bad you could never kill that damnable skull. Damn you Morte, you annoying bastard! :rant:
Lady Rolindin 12-06-04, 04:34 PM	If you have one area that your're playing the pc in and its your world, then develope the areas one by one out side where your taking the pc. Leave bread crumbs for the pc to follow, this is what i maen by bread crums. Have one or two of the group their chasing be seen and attack smaller villages. the villagers can give information to the pc's, not all of it just enough to keep their intrest. Take them to lair of the big bad evil, their are old dpwnloads of lairs in the wizards down load section if you need a fast one (or you could make your own). Even smaller cities have the evil npc seen there and you can make up things for them to follow. As for world building I always start with one area and then fill in cities sizes large, small, villages, what kind of people run the area. Good, Evil, what kind of system do they rule by, if a fueldal system like comyr then their good, if a evil system do they have a evil wizard king or ruler. If its a good system like comyr then how is the fuedal system set up, you can use the comyr system and modify it to fit you. At Candlekeep .com they have a good down load of the comyr military system, you can modify this to your world. Start with one area then full it up and move to the next area may take some time. If you run groups in the area you've made then have them go to the next area in your world with bread crums. Build up the area they will go to before they go to it and put in what you want. I have made two worlds. One world has a college of the mystal arts in a five mile sqaure piramid base, the best college for to study magic, a town has sprung up around the college. You can use this if you want, if you need information on the college I'll send it to you. Or you can make somthing simalair if you want. On my second world, I made a world where the netheril world walked and have taken over most of it. A few areas still hold out, the netheril decsidants call them selves the Black wizards and have a Black wizard litch King.The free areas have floating cities, like the black wizards( the black wizards just have more of them). This is a ideal to use take a ideal and make a world out of it, like the netheril world walking and the effects they had on other worlds.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-06-04, 05:30 PM	First off, I never start out with a BBEG. I start out with a series of seemingly random encounters. When I start out, these actually are random encounters for me. I have no overall plan. Then, I start thinking out my BBEG, tying the random encounters into the plot. Maybe a random group of bandits that the PC's killed happened to be working gor the BBEG, even though I had no such thought in mind when they fought the bandits. Then the BBEG rears it's ugly head and they realize what has happened.
Lady Rolindin 12-07-04, 01:05 AM	Just to let you know I'm going to be gone for a few weeks, will check my lap top when I get the chance.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-07-04, 01:12 AM	Well, Evandele and I are working on her first campaign (a solo). I know I should really ask PC stuff elsewhere, but I figure I won't get beaten to death by you all. My poor wizard is a sickly fellow, left with a Con of 9 ever since a childhood illness. Bad news is, he's 1st level with 3 hp. I have a bad feeling this is just going to screw the campaign right out of the gate, or force Evandele to fudge rolls for a while. I really don't want her to have to do that, especially on her first time out. This maybe the only time I'll ever admit this publicly, but I think I'm being an idiot for not changing the Con score (even though she's allowed me to reroll it). I'll beg for forgiveness again for the off-topic post.
Student Of The Mind 12-07-04, 03:57 AM	Well, Evandele and I are working on her first campaign (a solo). I know I should really ask PC stuff elsewhere, but I figure I won't get beaten to death by you all. My poor wizard is a sickly fellow, left with a Con of 9 ever since a childhood illness. Bad news is, he's 1st level with 3 hp. I have a bad feeling this is just going to screw the campaign right out of the gate, or force Evandele to fudge rolls for a while. I really don't want her to have to do that, especially on her first time out. This maybe the only time I'll ever admit this publicly, but I think I'm being an idiot for not changing the Con score (even though she's allowed me to reroll it). I'll beg for forgiveness again for the off-topic post. :pulls out his metal bat and grins wickedly: I'll try to fake my swings :devil: Your wizard is toast...You should have went with a cleric, it gives you a better chance of survival. Okay I'll stop the beating :D Good gaming!
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-07-04, 04:01 AM	Poo. I was afraid you'd say that. Maybe if I just attack random rats, one at a time, I can make it to 2nd level and get 1 more HP :thinks: . No, you're right, I'm screwed :ghosted: Off to create back up-characters.
ChaosEvoker 12-07-04, 12:27 PM	@Mordmorgan I mean honestly the most you could have is 8 HP, which reall won't save you from a good Orc attack. What I suggest is get some NPC Warriors or Fighters to take the brunt while you level up. Then when you get enough stuff and spells, you can go it alone. But a lv 1 mage alone is basically dead meat walking. And as for Morte....I was sorely disappointed. I was like: "A DEMILICH YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......crap." @Lady-Firehawk The reason I ask is because of your drawing of a modron. I guess I just never saw them in the MotP.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-07-04, 02:09 PM	@Mordmorgan I mean honestly the most you could have is 8 HP, which reall won't save you from a good Orc attack. What I suggest is get some NPC Warriors or Fighters to take the brunt while you level up. Then when you get enough stuff and spells, you can go it alone. But a lv 1 mage alone is basically dead meat walking. Yeah, I figured I'd have to hire some muscle. I took the Mercantile Background feat from PGtF, so I've got some extra cash handy. @Lady-Firehawk The reason I ask is because of your drawing of a modron. I guess I just never saw them in the MotP. I'm really amazed by the modron, especially if you've never played Planescape: Torment. It's fantastic!
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-07-04, 02:49 PM	Well, I've noticed we're slowing down, and that some members haven't made a recent appearance, so lets get back to our purpose. How many of you run solo campaigns, and what were your experiences with them? As for me, I'm about to start my first, and while I've got a good idea what I'm in for, it'd be nice to hear what everyone else has to say. I'm expecting the standard stuff, like having to use lower CR monsters, being able to ignore balance a little more than usual, etc.
Lady Rolindin 12-07-04, 02:58 PM	Redhase you should share some of the Netherlan Stars too! moved to guild libary!
redhase 12-07-04, 03:08 PM	MY first think that comes to me is no! I have my Netherilan Black Death Stars just for my own purpose, the rest maybe I'll think on it. Evil does as Evil is :evillaugh Evil never sleeps!
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-07-04, 05:12 PM	I've never actually done a solo campaign before. If I did, I would be a fighter. I haven't posted very frequently 'cause shool's picking up the pace.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-07-04, 05:17 PM	I haven't posted very frequently 'cause shool's picking up the pace. That's understandable, but we still miss you :D
redhase 12-07-04, 10:13 PM	Lady Rolindin would like to know if the rest of you are done with the gem lore master class. She is on the east coast right now, New york I remember right, if your done with the class let me know and I will ring her and she can send it to be put in the archive. Death to all those who opose me, for I am evil! :devil:
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-08-04, 06:48 AM	The urge to plan and scheme has once again overwhelmed me, so I've been rummaging through old 2e stuff and jotting down notes for the better part of three hours. Anyway, I'm thinking about running a campaign centered around the fey. Basically, what I'm thinking of is a vast forest filled with both the Seelie and Unseelie courts, various plant creatures, that nifty forest troll from MM3, a few druids, etc. I'm debating whether or not to make this forest its own plane of existence. For those of you with the Manual of the Planes, I'm aiming for something like the Spirit World (one of the variant planes), but with small variations. It's possible that this realm is just a deity's (possibly Silvanus) memory of Toril before the arrival of those races who don't respect nature. (It could also be his divine realm, but I don't want deities to be at the forefront of the story). I was thinking that the different Courts would maintain portals to various places: the Unseelie fey would have portals to the Demiplane of Shadow; the Seelie fey would have portals to various nature deities. I was also thinking of including portals to something akin to the Region of Dreams (from MotP), but with a really good Ravenloft twist (since I've got the Nightmare Lands suppliment from 2e). So here's the basic story: An evil fey on the Prime Material Plane has learned that the legendary Tarresque slumbers beneath the lands of the Seelie Court. He plans on awakening the beast and letting it loose on the Fey Realm (and later on the Prime). Before he can do any of this, he's got to find the beast's exact location, sneak past the seelie fey, and find some way of waking it up without being eaten directly after. The PCs awake in the Fey realm with no idea how they got there. They're quickly found by some good-hearted fey and taken to an ancient elven druid (mostly because the fey don't want the newcomers to accidentally find the Seelie Court). Anyway, I haven't worked out all the details, but eventually the druid and the seelie fey come to trust the PCs (after a series of quests of course). Once they find out about the evil fey's plans, they've got to pitch in and help stop him before the Tarresque awakes. Let me know what you guys think (keep in mind it's early, and I ran out of coffee a little while ago :D )
ChaosEvoker 12-08-04, 11:40 AM	It sounds good, though I would suggestion you offer the PCs a contigency plan should the Tarrasque awaken. (Always keep the option of failure open, PCs who fial have better and new motivation to succeed next time, but don't force them to fail. But allow them to fail if the dice and their decisions cause it)
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-08-04, 04:25 PM	don't force them to fail. That's a on the top five list of bad DMing for me. I never do that. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle the Tarrasque situation, but the threat of it should light a pretty good fire under thier butts. BTW, does anyone think CR 20 is a little low for the Tarrasque?
redhase 12-08-04, 04:40 PM	Yes to low, I had pc go on Tarrasque hunts with the Netheril. when one was found, the magic resistance it has, only use magic weapons on it. It would be fun to go back in time and go on another hunt, or find one sleeping and make sure you have alot of fighters and mages to battle the creature.
ChaosEvoker 12-08-04, 05:49 PM	From back at Pg. 18: Has anyone's group ever killed the Tarrasque? I think the CR of 20 on the Tarrasque is WAY under what its true CR is. Yes it is way underrated. It has EPIC dmg reduction! Which is ridiculous they need to beef up the CR on that baby.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-09-04, 10:56 PM	Alright, I know this is gonna shock some people. I recently realized I haven't done this before, but this time, I'm gonna do it... :( I need some help on my campaign... :( Thats right, I who have never asked for advice, am down on a knee. No, the world isn't coming to an end. Alright, currently, the PCs are in the Underdark (FR campaign). They are part of a fifteen person scouting party for a large group from Silverymoon that was trapped in the Underdark. They are trying to get to the surface. They were recently hired by a group of Duergar outside of a large Tannaruk city (Ammarindar, for those of you who have Underdark), to infiltrate the city and assassinate a few leaders. Now, I am planning on the Duergar in reality having been a group of dopplegangers that had betrayed them earlier in the campaign, bby capturing them and giving them to that uber half-succubus, who promptly threw them in the planar prison, where they were for forty odd years, etc. I already explained it a while back. Well, I'm trying to figure out how the dopplegangers betray them. The party is at level four, due to my rule that it takes five times as long to level up, and there are four of them, including my DMPC. Their allies are all level three, except for two level fours, and Belwar Dissengulp (lvl 11), from the Dark Elf series (yes, he is alive and well and living in Montana). They are all currently traveling to the city. Now I just need to decide on the details of the betryal. That is what I need help on. If you have any questions, just ask.
Student Of The Mind 12-09-04, 11:38 PM	Alright, I know this is gonna shock some people. I recently realized I haven't done this before, but this time, I'm gonna do it... :( I need some help on my campaign... :( Thats right, I who have never asked for advice, am down on a knee. No, the world isn't coming to an end. Alright, currently, the PCs are in the Underdark (FR campaign). They are part of a fifteen person scouting party for a large group from Silverymoon that was trapped in the Underdark. They are trying to get to the surface. They were recently hired by a group of Duergar outside of a large Tannaruk city (Ammarindar, for those of you who have Underdark), to infiltrate the city and assassinate a few leaders. Now, I am planning on the Duergar in reality having been a group of dopplegangers that had betrayed them earlier in the campaign, bby capturing them and giving them to that uber half-succubus, who promptly threw them in the planar prison, where they were for forty odd years, etc. I already explained it a while back. Well, I'm trying to figure out how the dopplegangers betray them. The party is at level four, due to my rule that it takes five times as long to level up, and there are four of them, including my DMPC. Their allies are all level three, except for two level fours, and Belwar Dissengulp (lvl 11), from the Dark Elf series (yes, he is alive and well and living in Montana). They are all currently traveling to the city. Now I just need to decide on the details of the betryal. That is what I need help on. If you have any questions, just ask. I'm not sure on everything you are looking for, because I need more details...But if those dopplegangers betrayed them to a lower house of drow, the entire mission could be in trouble if the drow ambush them in the night...Capturing all of the scouting party, except the PC's, to sell as slaves in their home city. If this were to take place, it would add another dimension to the campaign and might force the PC to run down the drow before they could get back to their original mission. I might be spouting out crap, but with more information I can give better ideas. Good gaming!
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-09-04, 11:47 PM	Well, they are currently a fair way away from any Drow cities, but it could work, thanks. But I'm thinking that maybe the dopplegangers somehow tip off the tannarukke or something. Preferably something that happens inside the city, so that the PCs can't get out without some serious combat. But the Drow thing could work... :devil:
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-10-04, 12:34 AM	You could simply have the Doppelgangers pose as tannarukk and attack the PCs once inside the city. I doubt the PCs would be able to tell one tannarukk from another, so they'd undoubtedly attack more of the city's inhabitants, and attract the guards. Would it be feasible to have the succubus come back and try to recapure them? She could persuade the tannarukks to capture the PCs and sell them back to her.
ChaosEvoker 12-10-04, 08:08 AM	I have a question that coudl relaly help out here: Why did the Doppelgangers want the leaders assisinated?
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-10-04, 11:59 PM	I have a question that coudl relaly help out here: Why did the Doppelgangers want the leaders assisinated? The reason is that if the PCs succeed, that will throw the tanarukke into chaos, making their destruction easier. And if the PCs fail, which is more likely considering that, unknown to the PCs, the city leaders are a good deal higher level than they are :devil: , which should be a problem considering the PCs weak grasp of tactics, then, one less enemy to contend with. @Mordmorgan: I like this idea. "Yoink!"
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-11-04, 12:24 AM	@Mordmorgan: I like this idea. "Yoink!" Glad I could help :D . BTW, do any of you play/have played Ravenloft (or other horror-based games)?
Student Of The Mind 12-11-04, 05:12 PM	Glad I could help :D . BTW, do any of you play/have played Ravenloft (or other horror-based games)? Yes Mordmorgan, I have run a few settings in Ravenloft...One suggestion is to work on the mood. It's almost useless without the mood of the setting, and if you have players that struggle with visualizing the environment they will really struggle in Ravenloft.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-11-04, 05:37 PM	I'm glad someone has. I've been running it on and off for years, so I don't have any problems with mood or things like that. I just like to bounce my ideas off other DMs. I'm working on a really good horror scene right now for a solo campaign, and I'll post it when I've got a little more time. To Xen: I'm working on an Incantation (from UA). When I'm done, would you be interested in posting it to the Artifact Corner?
ChaosEvoker 12-11-04, 10:27 PM	@CotDS Alright then have the doppelgangers attack the PC's if they manage to beat the leaders.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-11-04, 10:51 PM	@CotDS Alright then have the doppelgangers attack the PC's if they manage to beat the leaders. I was thinking to do that, but then I had the idea that in order to build on that, the dopplegangers could pose as some of the targets of the assassination, and therefore open up other possibilities to screw the players! :D What would happen if a "wounded" doppleganger posing as a tannarukke leader "stumbled" up to the other city leaders and tipped them off about the assassination, after the PCs have killed a few leaders. Then the tannarukke leaders prepare themselves, and the PCs will attack a very well prepared leader (meaning 30 billion or so guards).
Xen155 12-11-04, 11:45 PM	Arg, thats awful CotDS.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-12-04, 04:54 PM	Arg, thats awful CotDS. Yeah, Aren't I evil? :devil: :evillaugh
Student Of The Mind 12-13-04, 04:17 AM	Hail to the Foundation Of Dungeon Masters, To begin...There are 4 2nd level characters, not absolutely sure what characters they are going to create, but I can deal with that later. One group of two will start in Waterdeep, one will start in Baldur's Gate and the other will start out in the forests of the Sword Coast. The one in the wilderness will be a 1st lvl ranger/1st lvl rogue, now I know many will question this but it's part of the SL...The character was raised as a ranger, but found his skills better as a rogue...Now as the campaign starts the character will be coming back from hunting when he comes out of the woods he will see his forest home in flames. Searching the ruins he will find a symbol of the Red Wizards of Thay, and hopefully he will take the bait with emotion...To make it worse, there will be evidence that his family was taken as slaves. Whatcha think? Good enough bait? As for the others...The cleric will be a priest of a Mulhorandi diety, and a ways into the campaign he/she will find evidence of Thay helping Unther fight against Mulhorand. Still working on this bait, but I think it's got a bit of promise. The wizard/psion might be baited if the Thayan wizards kill his mentor, or betray them to the locates...Frame him for things that werent done just before the Thayan caravan leaves to conquer the ranger/rogues family for slavery...A little connection maybe. As for the other character I'm not 100%, but I'm sure I can come up with something off the spur of the moment for a fighter type. Now as to where this is going, I asked a while back for some ideas...Thank you all if I didnt say so before. I decided to mix the two ideas...A sailing adventure that goes into a dungeon crawl later on at higher levels. The sailing adventure will be the begining as they chase down the slave ship that contains the ranger/rogue's family members...And the other NPC's that effect the characters. Now I've got it planned so that the character will follow the caravan to a city with a Thayan enclave, then lose the caravan as it leaves for Westgate. I want to make them get ditched in Proskur, and head north towards Cormyr with a brief adventure in the Farsea Marshes. Any ideas of how I can mislead them? Later they will make their way into Cormyr and hopefully find out they were ditched...And finally realize what they need to do to get some revenge, get a boat and take sail. I want them to do a bit of pirating against Thayan ships before actually sailing toward Thay, Unther and Mulhorand...In these different places they will come across different smaller adventures...Any ideas for those would be great! Finally they will go up against a Thayan Red Wizard and his partner of a half-dragon priest of Tiamat...That reside in free Unther, holding strong against Mulhorand. Sorry for the long post, but could I get some suggestions and things that arent right about my plans? I know that characters dont go along with things all the time, and I can switch things around on the fly...So I'm not really worried if they dont take the bait so to speak. Anyways any ideas would be great and suggestions are welcome. Good gaming.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-13-04, 06:41 PM	About how to mislead them when chasing the ship, you could haveone of the Thayans set a false trail leading to a completely different ship. Then they end up chasing the other ship completely away from where they should be going. The other ship will try to run because they think the PCs are pirates who are trying to chase them.
Student Of The Mind 12-14-04, 05:43 AM	Getting too involved with the SL? Should I just try to hook the entire party with the "Chase after the Thayan Slavers?" It feels like I'm getting my hands into the SL of the charactertoo much, and I should be letting the players create their own characters. More feedback would be great, and CotDS thank you for the suggestion...I was going to try to make them go toward Cormyr instead, but I was just making more work for myself...You have shown me the light :D Good gaming!
ChaosEvoker 12-14-04, 05:44 PM	My players like to create their own history and incorporate their expereinces into their PC's personaility. I can't really relate much there.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-14-04, 06:17 PM	Whoa, that was a scarry upgrade. For some reason my firewall prevented me from loging in... Anyway, I don't think you're outside your rights as a DM. Players agree to play in a game you create, and they shouldn't have a problem if you say, "Hey, everyone's got to work this into thier background."
anglar 12-14-04, 06:30 PM	The sound of alarms snap you to attention. In a secluded part of your domain 4 of your servants have been found dead. There is a note. It reads "Pay or Pay".
Student Of The Mind 12-14-04, 06:33 PM	My players like to create their own history and incorporate their expereinces into their PC's personaility. I can't really relate much there. Yes I usually give players free reign over what their characters background is, but this is a new group...Never having DMed for them before...and I'm not sure if I have to lead them with a leash, or if I can throw a bone for them to chase after. I think I am getting too into the SL before the campaign starts, so I think I am just going to have them all at the meeting point where they first encounter the Thayan slavers. Slavery would require justice in the eyes of good characters, yes? Or atleast it should anyways. ChaosEvoker thank your for your input, I dont like taking away the creative ideas of my players...So I'm just gonna back off a bit and let them handle their backgrounds. Good gaming.
Student Of The Mind 12-14-04, 07:08 PM	Whoa, that was a scarry upgrade. For some reason my firewall prevented me from loging in... Anyway, I don't think you're outside your rights as a DM. Players agree to play in a game you create, and they shouldn't have a problem if you say, "Hey, everyone's got to work this into thier background." Yes I had thought that too...Which is why I've locked the ranger/rogue into the slavery SL, the captives will be his family. The player doesnt really like it, but I have planned for him to get the chance to become a ninja when they get to Thesk...Which he is always talking about. So I guess it's a pretty good reward. Thanks for the input. Good gaming.
redhase 12-15-04, 02:30 AM	anglar The sound of alarms snap you to attention. In a secluded part of your domain 4 of your servants have been found dead. There is a note. It reads "Pay or Pay". sorry were not part of the giuld wars, were just gm's helping each other. I don't even think their is a hall, we have a libarary were we post things we make and give advice when asked when some one ask for it. Sorry Anglar, I can relate to what you said about your players creating their own history. does help some times for them to make it up for them selves. Some players have good imaganation for that.
Student Of The Mind 12-15-04, 02:53 AM	I can relate to what you said about your players creating their own history. does help some times for them to make it up for them selves. Some players have good imaganation for that. The group that I last played with (a long standing group of over ten years) we had several players that were great with their backgrounds. They were halfway detailed about what the last ten years of the characters life has been like, and why they are the way they are...But with this group (currently going on a couple of months now) I'm not positive about how far they are going to go with creating their character. A question about my original post to all who might read this...Do you think the events I have in place for the campaign will be enough to bring the characters from 2nd level to 18th or 19th level? Thank you for the input! Good gaming!
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-15-04, 02:49 PM	Yeah, you can probably get them up that high if you take your time.
Student Of The Mind 12-15-04, 04:58 PM	Yeah, you can probably get them up that high if you take your time. Taking my time is something I'm good at doing...Hopefully the players and characters will take their time during the sailing portion of the campaign. Though as I have it planned right now...As the characters chase the Thayan NPC's across the water, they will damage each others boats so badly that both parties will be forced to flee in life boat. Then land possibly slightly east of Sembia, this will then make the chase on foot and will be easier to drag on as they jump from town to town. Or in the Vast...So many options! I'm losing my mind, too late. :D Many thanks, Mordmorgan! Good gaming!
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-15-04, 05:02 PM	Have you concidered doing something underwater? If the Thayans trounce the PCs badly enough during the naval combat, maybe they're forced to flee into the depths. You could have some fairly strange underwater encounters. IIRC, isn't the Bell in the Deep somewhere near Sembia? If not, you could always have them run into a small tribe of Merfolk, or possibly some undead imprisioned beneath the waves. Ooh, if you really wanted to kick them when they're down, you could add an encounter with the Dragon Eel (from MM3). Anyway, hope that gets the neurons firing.
ChaosEvoker 12-15-04, 06:03 PM	Yeah, you coudl go with a whole mini-campaign there. They get sucked into an underwater city and have to complete this quest, and then the aquatic creatures bring thm back up, I mean, ou coudl get really complex. Definately alot of potential.
ChaosEvoker 12-15-04, 06:11 PM	Btw, just for my own curiosity, how old are the members here? (I'll give you mine after everyone who is will to say has) In fact, how old would you guess I am? (This is a random off-topic, just for kicks [sorry sometimes I'm weird liek this, but if you don't mind, please indulge me])
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-15-04, 06:32 PM	I am fourteen as of December 31st. That's right, my birthday is on New Years. :D
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-15-04, 11:18 PM	I'm 21 (22 on Feb 25th, same as the Beatle George Harrison). I'd guess you're probably 19-24.
Shard of Suzail 12-16-04, 04:01 PM	I`m 27 myself.
Shard of Suzail 12-16-04, 04:15 PM	Well, my group has moved from Stargate d20 back to D and D, so i`ll be able to play Shard, my cleric, once more and continue the slow march up from tenth level. I`ve got a lot on my plate, as far as the future of my character goes. I`ve had threads on the boards ranging from "how should i got about visiting my god" to prestige questions on the geomancer. Still, one thing has always eluded me in games and that is making a good quality magical item. I dont have any item creation feats, but i figure i`ll take one at 12th (though at 12th i`ll be an 11th level caster only, which really messes up getting craft staff, it would seem). Nonetheless, i really liked the dungeons and dragons movie and i can see the appeal of profion's magic item making lab. So, i have decided to set myself the task of working towards making a super staff or rod, comparable in scope to the mighty "rod of savrille" that caused the great war. I dont want just any old item, but i want to make a singular signature piece that is top whack in its power. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what sort of powers i should aim to give my item and what the potential costs might be? I`m a divine caster and i dont mind picking up some arcane levels or waiting till i`m, say, divine 15th level or so. It`ll probably be the only magic item i make, so i`d like it to be something that i can stick with till 20th, if that ever comes. Probably a staff or rod, preferably big and metal with a gem in the top somewhere. My domains are Death, knowledge and either time or fate once i prestige and add one. Ideas?
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-16-04, 04:20 PM	Orcy will have to point Nightscreamer over this way. The man does wonders with items. Orcy has seen things no man, nor half-orc, should ever see created by him. Orcy shudders at the thought...
Shard of Suzail 12-16-04, 04:25 PM	Good man Orcy, i could do with some sage help from those in the know.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-16-04, 09:01 PM	Actually, on the D&D main website, they just started up a series of rules articles on this very subject. You may wanna check that out. Man, I can't wait till the holidays! I'll get the chance to visit my cousins in California, which is a great change from Illinois! Our ground is to flat around here! :weep:
ChaosEvoker 12-17-04, 12:13 AM	@Mordmorgan You seem to be the only one with a guess. Alright, your dead wrong..;) AT the risk of losing some respect: I am but a mere 16 years of age (17 this March) @ Shard I have my example right here (Xen you can put this in the DMFAC if you wish I think your familiar with this particular item ;)) Staff of Racanath The most dangerous of evil is that which acts on good intentions. Misguided means, but good intentions. Such was the case of one Grey Elf. Racanath Xiltyn had his family killed by a drow house. The raid killed all of his family, but his father managed to survive for long enough for the wounded, mere 78 year old Racanath, to be able to crawl over to his father. Racanath cried out desperately, but in vain, for help. His father died a painful death, and in the view of his own son. Racanath made a vow of vengance upon the Drow and set to work becoming a powerful Wizard. Being a particularly bright student (even for a Grey Elf) he advanced quickly and was quite powerful for a yound wizard. He soon went out for adventure. He was thrown through a temporal portal that brought him to the future. Here myserious things known as "guns" and odd moving steel boxes known as "cars" we common items. However, this future world was attacked by the last remaining wizard of the time, and a clan of Duregar. Racanath assasinated the wizard and studied in the future wizards underground library, where he learned much. From there, he became a lich. He began ambitions to take over the world form where he could amass an army to obliterate the Drow..... and so it began... He began political strife between the already tenative politics between Amn and the city of Baldur's Gate. Soon, war broke out between the two. Racanath's allies: A half-Water Elemental named Keledrian Neverdry, a Vampire lieutenant, and another lich questioned why he started such a war. He brought forth a staff as black as night. Topped with an ivory skull that had a look as if it were laughing maniacally, the staff gave off an aura of evil and unholiness. He had gone missing for a year after the incidents in the future and now they know why. He had crafted this staff. With the powers in this staff he could not only raise as many undead skeletons and zombies to serve him as he wished, but he could control all of them as well. So the staff was named after its creator. Amn managed to destroy Baldur's Gate, but just as they were begining to celebrate their victory, the Amnish were attack by the Dead Nations' Army. Racanath's kingdom had an army, and now a name: The Dead Nations. later, the lich became a demi-lich and achieved power so great that not even the Chosen of Mystra could scratch him. Racanath disappeared suddenly after he fortified his kingdom, which was all of Baldur's Gate and the nation of Amn. his disappearance/death is still a mystery. Rumor has it that he was destroyed by Mystra herself in a desperate act of divine intervention, directly violating the codes set down by Lord Ao after the Time of Troubles. However, this is merely rumor, and truth has yet to be confirmed..... Nevertheless, the Staff of Racanath lives on, waiting for a weilder to use it's power of bringing up whole armies from the dead once again.... Stats for the Staff of Racanath +4 Unholy Quarterstaff Allows the use of the following power at will: Create Undead It also allows the weilder to control an infinite amount of HD worth in undead raised by this staff only.
Xen155 12-17-04, 11:33 AM	NOOOOOOOOOO, put it away Evoker, it is EVIL.....EVIL. If HE finds out we have it......shudder.
Dyne 12-17-04, 01:29 PM	Btw, just for my own curiosity, how old are the members here? (I'll give you mine after everyone who is will to say has) In fact, how old would you guess I am? (This is a random off-topic, just for kicks [sorry sometimes I'm weird liek this, but if you don't mind, please indulge me]) I'm 15, turning 16 in July. That's a nice staff, ChaosEvoker. I think I'll use it for an Epic Necromancer character that I was gonna use in my campaign. Shard, I came up with a Rod that increases the spellcasting power of a Wizard. I could probably alter it slightly to suit a Cleric, and maybe give it some extra powers.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-17-04, 02:12 PM	I dont want just any old item, but i want to make a singular signature piece that is top whack in its power. It`ll probably be the only magic item i make, so i`d like it to be something that i can stick with till 20th, if that ever comes. Probably a staff or rod, preferably big and metal with a gem in the top somewhere. My domains are Death, knowledge and either time or fate once i prestige and add one. Ideas? Any specific powers you'd like? I'd suggest something like a dragon's Frightful Presence (since fear is on your Death Domain list), and possibly Blindsense (since it jives with both Knowledge and Dragons). Do you create a lot of undead? If so, you should probably give it an ability like create undead x/day. Let us know more about what you'd like to have, and I'm sure we can come up with something. EDIT: I found your post on Geomancers, and thought you might ask your DM if you could gain powers similar to the Draconic Herritage Feats from Complete Arcane. They give some powers that are based on dragons, and they aren't especially overpowered if used by a cleric.
ChaosEvoker 12-17-04, 06:51 PM	@Shard Just so you know my item was intended only as an example of a cool item that a character of mine made.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-17-04, 08:11 PM	My searches are complete! *Laughs evily and grabs Chaos Evoker's Staff, yells "Yoink!" and dissapears in a puff of ochre colored smoke!*
Dyne 12-17-04, 08:13 PM	My searches are complete! *Laughs evily and grabs Chaos Evoker's Staff, yells "Yoink!" and dissapears in a puff of ochre colored smoke!* Hey! I was gonna snatch it! *Chases after him through the puff of smoke*
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-17-04, 08:21 PM	*Begins creating undead and throwing them at Dyne.* Man, I love this thing! :evillaugh
ChaosEvoker 12-17-04, 08:24 PM	That darn staff ALWAYS creates chaos........ *Uses his Overlord DM powers to create a double of the staff handing one to each Dyne and CotDS* Now calm down you two...
Dyne 12-17-04, 08:32 PM	That darn staff ALWAYS creates chaos........ *Uses his Overlord DM powers to create a double of the staff handing one to each Dyne and CotDS* Now calm down you two... "The power...." he says, rubbing the staff and cradling it in his arms.
ChaosEvoker 12-17-04, 08:56 PM	lol I'm glad you guys like it.
Dyne 12-17-04, 09:05 PM	lol I'm glad you guys like it. *Begins using his staff to raise an army of undead* You bet I like it! *Goes away to plot and scheme*
ChaosEvoker 12-17-04, 09:24 PM	lol ANYWAY! I guess we are waiting for Shard's responces to our ideas... :confused:
ChaosEvoker 12-17-04, 09:28 PM	ANNOUNCEMENT: Also, We have a member who has failed to be active since the DMF moved to the Guild House. So we need a new counsil member, since he was one.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-18-04, 01:22 AM	I vote that we leave the spot open until a suitable replacement can be found. Anyhow, regarding Shard's item, I did some browsing in 2 of the 4 volumes of Encyclopedia Magica, but haven't found anything suitable yet. I'll keep looking after work tomorrow. Well, my Ravenloft game starts just after the 1st, so I'm really excited. One of my friends is coming down from Missouri (Misery depending on who you ask) to restart his favorite character as a warlock (formerly a sorcerer and White Arcanist [for those of you without the Heroes of Light book, it's basically a good necromancer who eventually becomes a ghost]). He comes down about twice a year to walk his character's path. It's always great fun. This time we're playing "the early years", since we origionally started the game at level 4. I thought it'd be a nice change of pace. If anyone's interested, I'll bring some stories back from the Demiplane of Dread and share :D
Shard of Suzail 12-18-04, 08:23 AM	Thats an interesting item that you have posted, chaos evoker. It is true that I summon a lot of undead and that the whole necromancy theme is one that i make frequent use of. I have the Diablo d20 books and my gm let me purchase a large tome, costing me about 3000gp that has allowed me to start learning the cleric accessable necromancer class spells that are contained there. Which is a handy thing, since that lets me summon different grades and types of skeleton, with a selection of resistances and powers. With the "summon skeletal mage" spell, i can get ranged skeletons too, which proves useful. They dont get a bonus to hit at all, but all their attacks are ranged touch, so they can usually hit something, some of the time. I think the spell i make use of the most from the Diablo d20 books is the necromancer spell "bone armour". It's very handy, since it raises AC and gives a buffer zone of temporary hitpoints. It is cleverly balanced by needing a corpse as a component, so i usually dont have it running until we are already some way into a dungeon or otherwise in for the long term fight. Commonly, i do have a lot of skellies following me about, but as my equipment and class have improved i tend to use them less than i used to. We also have a vow of poverty exalted monk in the party, so, with his anti undead aura, fighting alongside him can be a pain when undead are our foes as well and his aura is active. *** Now, item wise, i was thinking of something to aim for. I chose the example of Profion's staff or the Rod of Savrille, since they are top whack items that make you a force to contend with in a political sense. Controlling all red or gold dragons, for instance, is quite a boon. Now, i do appreciate that such an item is pretty much epic in its scope, so i`d not want anything quite so unbalancing to the game i`m in. Chaos evokers's staff suggestion is a good level to aim for. It has the same sort of appeal as the Rod of Savrille, but would be a lot more to the game scale. Should, say, i need a large amount of undead to defend a town say, then that would work well. There are a few things that regularly cause me problems in my game. The first is that my spells are easily resisted. I`ve noticed that this bites a lot more in 3.5 since all my inflict spells now get a save as well as me having to hit my opponents (which i think is extremely poor). I dont have a very high wisdom (it is currently 15, hopefully 16 at level 12) and my feats are limited. An item that could improve this situation would be a good thing, even if it was for specific schools of magic. Creature control options are interesting. I make a good living out of rebuking things and controlling them, though, as prestige kicks in, i sense that this skill will fall by the wayside. I do conjure things on occasion and some sort of mind control or commanding item would be pretty cool. I play Shard as a pokemon master in many ways, mostly fighting as support to her summoned or controlled war beasts. I would really love to craft golems, but thats so heavily slanted towards arcanists that its probably out of the window. I`d quite like to get hold of a flying mount of some sort, so again, any item that would lead me towards getting one of these would be good. Alternatively, if the item was a flying mount, thats good too. I wouldnt mind crafting a building either. Would craft wonderous cover that or would i need "arcane architecture" or some other new feat? A staff that allows infinite skellies is one thing, but a building that produces and maintains them may be a bit more permissable by my gm. I`m a fan of the heroes of might and magic games and they have buildings that improve necromancy (called necromancy amplifiers) that they set up in undead towns, a bit like radio masts, though these ones suck in negative energy and broadcast it to the casters in the field. I quite liked the magical staff used in the jedi knight academy game by Tavion, which sucked up magical energy from sites and things touched by dark side energy. Not initially powerful, but the more you quested and used it, the better it became. Such an item would grow with the character that used it and would have the capacity to run out of power too, which could be a good balance token.
Dyne 12-18-04, 02:39 PM	ANNOUNCEMENT: Also, We have a member who has failed to be active since the DMF moved to the Guild House. So we need a new counsil member, since he was one. Can't you PM him?
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-18-04, 02:50 PM	Shard: Have you concidered joining the Cult of the Dragon, or at least finding the potion that creates Dracoliches? It seems like that may best fit, unless of course Chronepsis has some problem with undead dragons.
Shard of Suzail 12-18-04, 03:12 PM	The cult of the Dragon isnt something we have encountered in the campaign. As such, I dont know if the Gm is keen to bring in such groups. We did have one player who was very dragon oriented in his two characters, but the GM wasnt too keen on that. This may be due to the fact that the player concerned had the Draconomicon and the GM did not. I own a copy myself too, but it isnt something i really need to make use of. The afformentioned player, however, was very keen on it and used one of the templates for his second character. Not that it really helped him much, since both those characters are now dead. I know that he was a bit dissappointed that the gm didnt really encourage the plotlines he wanted for his character. Our GM is a bit touchy. He doesnt like anyone messing with his idea of how the campaign should be run, or his timeline. We had to fight to get him to allow others to run in his place if he was away for a while. As things stand, some group members are considering starting a new campaign, possibly with a new gm. He has, as it were, rather stifled things for a few people. I`m fairly happy with things though, since i`m more content to explore the gm's plotlines rather than to try and write my own. Still, i`m true neutral in character and much the same as a person, whereas my fellow players are a lot more self directing. I play games to investigate the gm's world, but they want more of a partnership in writing the saga. We came to quite a major stage in the campaign in yesterdays session, having finally managed to speak to a notable npc after many quests to reach her and gain an audience. It will be very interesting to see where the campaign goes from here, but i want it to settle down a bit. We are all level 10 or so now and only have the reputation and influence of the average guardsman still. I`m keen to move onto bigger things, like founding a temple and getting the leadership feat for a cohort. Still, thats the kind of player i am. I enjoy the management of large groups or countries and feel bad in games where it is all about the main character. I have no idea how the gm would react to me getting a cohort, but it would be nice to have, effectively, two characters to run about with and a whole load of guys to do my researching for me back at home. Has anyone else got any experience of using the leadership feat or having cohorts? I would be interested to hear of your experiences and thoughts on the matter.
Rapida 12-18-04, 03:28 PM	I was wondering if the same type of poison hits a player twice and they fail the save both times does it do the poison damage twice?
Dyne 12-18-04, 03:34 PM	Well, one of my characters in the IFWG is a Purple Dragon Knight with the Leadership feat. I brought all his men into a major battle, and they were pretty much wiped out with a single blow from the enemy. In one of my own games, the PC's hired out a bunch of hirelings to help them out in combat. They were all level 1 I believe, but the party was relatively low level at that point. They were effective at handling the low-level grunts of the enemy while the PC's could concentrate on the main bad guys and the big picture of what's going on. At level 10, I would recommend you to have your Followers as support characters rather than combat characters, unless your GM throws in some lower level enemies that they can handle. Some of them can be used as smiths to make equipment for the main characters, or they can be used to fit a role that isn't already covered by one of the PC's, such as an Expert taking the role of a Rogue. If your group doesn't have a Wizard or Sorcerer, you could have one of your higher level Followers take that role. Wizards and Sorcerers are always helpful to have around, even if they're low level.
Dyne 12-18-04, 03:35 PM	I was wondering if the same type of poison hits a player twice and they fail the save both times does it do the poison damage twice? I would think so. The more poison in your body, the more your body will be hurting.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-18-04, 03:40 PM	I was wondering if the same type of poison hits a player twice and they fail the save both times does it do the poison damage twice? Yes. Re: Leadership: One of my PCs in the last game had it. He had about 5 cohorts that he called on at irregular intervals, and more than 100 followers that maintained the PC's headquarters (a warehouse in Waterdeep's Trades Ward). Worked out pretty well for him and the party.
Lady_Firehawk 12-20-04, 01:53 AM	LOL, holidays have been keeping me busy... haven't played much D&D yet. Sheesh, I still need to beat those guys' butts and get them to do their characters, degnebbit! :P
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-20-04, 02:46 AM	Yeah, my games have been put on hold until after the 1st. (btw: did anyone else have trouble loading the boards yesterday?)
Dyne 12-20-04, 02:53 AM	Yeah, my games have been put on hold until after the 1st. (btw: did anyone else have trouble loading the boards yesterday?) Yup. I think they shut down either Friday or Saturday and only opened up right now.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-20-04, 03:01 AM	That was driving me insane (well, more so). I hate it when they don't let us know in advance :mad:
Dyne 12-20-04, 03:05 AM	That was driving me insane (well, more so). I hate it when they don't let us know in advance :mad: Me too. I think that one was accidental, though. They usually do let us know in advance.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-20-04, 03:08 AM	Oh, and while I'm thinking about it: MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY CHANUKAH
Student Of The Mind 12-20-04, 03:15 AM	That was driving me insane (well, more so). I hate it when they don't let us know in advance :mad: Yes they should definitely let us know...I think I'm going to send the bill to WoTC for the bleeding ears of my roomies. Each time I tried to get into the forums and was denied I was forced to let out a paragraph of profanity.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-20-04, 03:20 AM	According to Michael Morris (the Techno Wizard) it was probably some kind of hardware failure, but he can't be sure.
Student Of The Mind 12-20-04, 03:29 AM	According to Michael Morris (the Techno Wizard) it was probably some kind of hardware failure, but he can't be sure. Excuses are like ***holes! :D
Dyne 12-20-04, 04:06 AM	Excuses are like ***holes! :D Yup. Nothing but crap comes from them. :P
Student Of The Mind 12-20-04, 04:11 AM	Yup. Nothing but crap comes from the. :P Yes that is very true...Though I was going to say that "everyone has one and they always stink like :censored:" But yours works great.
Lady Rolindin 12-20-04, 04:35 AM	I see redhase been busy causing trouble again, oh well xen plese post the spells and Ladt fire hawk how did you like the spell I sent you.
Lady_Firehawk 12-20-04, 04:50 AM	Hehehe... that was a cool spell. :D Meh... I need to find a DMG for one of my friends for Christmas... he's been using mine. :P
ChaosEvoker 12-20-04, 07:04 AM	Yeah boards were down for 2 days here I almost died About: Counsil The spot will be open until suitable replacement is found, anyone who has a good nominee post it up, the counsil will vote though PMs and you will either be accepted or not. About: Staff of Racanath I missed some deatials posting it, I'll have to fix those later, be looking for the editing of it if your curious. @Shard Glad I could at least peak your interest. There's nothing like having a demilich character who wants to conquer the world EVOKER OUT
LilMissKittyn 12-20-04, 01:41 PM	:D Hey. I'm back! (I was buried under an avalanche of school and work). I don't suppose someone would do the courtesy of updating me on what's been going on? Oh yeah. I saw the Foundation Wars were over. Pity, they made things very interesting. Neccessity will breed conflict or some philosophical thing like that. One last thing: How do I create a character on the boards? Can someone direct me to the link? Thanks. Happy holidays to everyone out there! I hope you don't get stuck in an airport for 10 hours! ^_^ Over and out.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-20-04, 01:48 PM	Hey! LilMissKittyn's back! Horray! :w00t: We're trying to help Shard find a decent magic item to create and complaining about the Boards being down without warning.
Chosen of the Dark Sun 12-20-04, 02:13 PM	Sorry I haven't been here, every time I've tried to get to this site since Friday, my computer ended up freezing! :mad:
Dyne 12-20-04, 03:50 PM	ChaosEvoker, who's on the Council anyway?
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-20-04, 04:10 PM	The Dungeon Master Council: 1)Xen155 2)Shard of Suzail 3)ZebtheDM has been removed due to complete inactivity. Searching for a new counsil member 4)Student Of The Mind 5)Mormorgan the Mad Members so far: Check the DMFACv1.5 Listed on Page 1
Dyne 12-20-04, 04:12 PM	Listed on Page 1 Oh yeah. Thanks.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-20-04, 04:20 PM	The grand show is eternal. It is always sunrise somewhere; the dew is never dried all at once; a shower is forever falling; vapor is ever rising. Eternal sunrise, eternal dawn and gloaming, on sea and continents and islands, each in its turn, as the round earth rolls. -John Muir Err..ahem...What???
LilMissKittyn 12-20-04, 06:05 PM	Lol very poetic. What does it mean? As for items, don't think I can help much there. However, I am now celebrating since due to Christmas generosity, I have enough money to buy guides of my own instead of mooching off of ChaosEvoker's. (And there was much rejoicing).
Shard of Suzail 12-20-04, 06:14 PM	Well, in light of recent gameplay events and some decent research, i`ve chosen to abandon the magic item plan. I can adventure for the fancy toys and there really is no incentive to make them myself and cost myself xp. Instead i`m going to head down the route of getting myself a Dragon Cohort, using the dragon cohort feat from the draconomicon. With a few fighter levels i can qualify for the dragon rider prestige class too. A magic item is one thing, but having a big ol' dragon to prance about on is just too cool to miss! Besides, i was pleasantly surprised at how close i was to the dragonrider prestige class. It's really hard to qualify for cleric prestige classes, as feats are hard to get, but fighter type prestige classes are not a problem, as feats are easy to aquire for fighters. Oooah, it`ll be just like Krynn. I want to be as cool as Kitiara.
Lady Rolindin 12-20-04, 08:33 PM	it had to be made stronger.Lady Fire Hwk add +1 for ever 4 levels for beak attack and claw attack to spell.
redhase 12-20-04, 09:23 PM	I chose Lady Rolindin, I would chose my self but you can't have someone that shadow kills all living things it touches. I have much to many things to do, she likes to get involved in counsels and boards, not for me I have things to do.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-21-04, 03:04 AM	Lol very poetic. What does it mean? *shrugs* Dunno. We've decided to skip X-mas this year due to a lack of funds. Fortunately, my mom managed to drop off a few gifts (including the spiffy Leatherbound PHB). Anyhow, I'm gonna see if I can start the new year off right by fulfilling my new year's resolution early. Hopefully I'll be adding a new gamer after the 1st of the year :D . She's never played before, but hopefully, she'll be koolies.
ChaosEvoker 12-21-04, 11:00 AM	Counsil send me your votes to admit Lady Rondinlin to the counsil or not: (THROUGH PM DO NOT PUBLICIZE THE VOTES) Yay = Accept Nay = Deny
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-21-04, 12:41 PM	I'll nominate Dyne. (Gotta have some competition).
ChaosEvoker 12-21-04, 05:52 PM	Alright, the counsil will also vote on Dyne. Same process as with Lady Ronlindin. Also, of course, every nominee will need to accept the nomination, and therefore the responsibility should they be accepted. As for Lady Ronlindin: (let's get some classic DM flavor text going here) Lady Ronlindin was called forth. She entered the dark chamber, apprension showing on her face. The counsil of the DMF sat in the shadows. The only light in the room shone from a single opening in the ceiling casting a beam of white on Lady Ronlindin as she stood in the middle of the counsil chamber. Chaos Evoker stood, looking intently at her, his very gaze looked as if it could pierce into her soul. He leaned forward, as if to get a closer look, and sat back down. After a few moments he spoke. Lady Ronlindin, you have been...DENIED. The counsil has spoken With that, she was led away form the counsil. Chaos Evoker turned to look at the rest of the counsil and then at the empty chair that required filling. With a sigh, he turned to a guard. Bring me Dyne. For those of you who haven't voted in the counsil I'm aware you haven't. We ahve enough for a majority, you may send me your vote anyway, it would be appreciated to know where you stand. I await your votes on Dyne.
Dyne 12-21-04, 06:14 PM	Just a quick question. What exactly does the council do.
ChaosEvoker 12-21-04, 06:15 PM	Basically we vote on the rare occasions liek this and are people that are reliable to turn to for good DMing advise and such. We are the figureheads, the examples, idk how else ot put it....does that help at all?
Dyne 12-21-04, 06:30 PM	Basically we vote on the rare occasions liek this and are people that are reliable to turn to for good DMing advise and such. We are the figureheads, the examples, idk how else ot put it....does that help at all? I suppose. I'd be willing to do that.
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-21-04, 07:06 PM	The real trick is to be super self-important and say stuff like "thither" and "forsooth" :D
ChaosEvoker 12-21-04, 09:34 PM	The real trick is to be super self-important and say stuff like "thither" and "forsooth" :D I think your SN fits you well sometimes Mordmorgan the Mad.
ChaosEvoker 12-22-04, 01:32 PM	*cough* thread....slowing....need....posts...... ..*cough*
Student Of The Mind 12-22-04, 04:56 PM	What are all of your rules on ship to ship combat? What rules for skill rolls on sailing? What about rules for manuevers and positioning when concerning tactical advantages? Anything would be great, many thanks. Good gaming.
Dyne 12-22-04, 05:20 PM	What are all of your rules on ship to ship combat? What rules for skill rolls on sailing? What about rules for manuevers and positioning when concerning tactical advantages? Anything would be great, many thanks. Good gaming. We've never gotten involved with ships in any of our D&D games. But, I'm thinking on redoing the starship rules for the SWRPG. Does that count?
ChaosEvoker 12-22-04, 05:23 PM	Hmm ship combat, never tried it....I don't have any.... btw EVERYONE MUST GO TO THIS SITE: (click on the mage) :mage: (http://www.cybermoonstudios.com/8bitDandD.html)
Student Of The Mind 12-22-04, 05:39 PM	Thank you both...Do you know of any books that cover this subject? Does anybody have any ideas on how to rule skill rolls for combat manuevers during battle? Suggestions are welcome...I have a basic system sketched out, but it's not very good. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Good gaming.
Dyne 12-22-04, 05:43 PM	I think there might be something about that in the Arms and Equipment Guide. I'm not sure, though.
ChaosEvoker 12-22-04, 06:01 PM	I don't think I fully get what you are asking SotM. Can you clarify?
Student Of The Mind 12-22-04, 06:18 PM	btw EVERYONE MUST GO TO THIS SITE: (click on the mage) :mage: (http://www.cybermoonstudios.com/8bitDandD.html) LoL...Evoker you :censored:...My side hurts from laughing so hard! I wish I would've had that ten years ago! That :censored: is great. :D Good gaming.
WizO_Catoblepas 12-22-04, 06:20 PM	* A simple catoblepas enters the room.* * He looks onto the council, puts his hoof to the rules for the foundation thread at the top of this board, and grunts to remind that guests who wish to be members are to be so or else the foundation will be terminated on this board.* * The catoblepas strides out of the room.*
ChaosEvoker 12-22-04, 06:27 PM	*nods to WizO* with all due respect my good WizO: The counsil is not the foundation. They are figureheads, and kind of help to represent teh foundation, anyone who wishes to join is welcome. @SotM i know that is the best thing EVER everyone must go there it is the BEST
WizO_Catoblepas 12-22-04, 06:34 PM	And if a guest wishes to join the "counsil", then they're in. Otherwise, it's favoritism, and such activity is not allowed in a council, foundation, grouping, congregation, or else they wish to be called.
ChaosEvoker 12-22-04, 06:43 PM	Wow I thought we had dealt with this issue a LONG time ago (back in page 1) apparently not............again with all due respect: Ok one of the main objectives of this foundation is to help nurture new DMs and be able to turn to wiser ones for advise. The Counsil are a small group of DMs set aside as examples of wise experienced DMs so that newbs can have a fast, reliable source for getting DMing advise. What you suggest woudl ruin that system, what's even the point of having a counsil if everyone can join in?
Dyne 12-22-04, 06:50 PM	Everyone should be able to join the foundation. The Council, from what I've gathered, is just a group of well-respected people whom others can look to for advice. They don't wield any special power that I am aware of.
WizO_Catoblepas 12-22-04, 06:59 PM	The main point of the boards is that guest can turn to all of us for advice if needed. Thus, if one wishes to be considered to be a wise DM, then they can place such text in their sig. However, the foundations are not to have positions that are considered a special (or wiser) position than the others within the foundation. Thus, if a guest wishes to be "on the council", then they're "in the council." Even if this was allowed within a foundation (which it isn't), it would be based on a DM experience, not by a election of a majority of council members. At any rate, if a guest wishes to be "in the council", they're "in the council".
Dyne 12-22-04, 07:05 PM	In that case, I don't want to be on the council. I want to be unique. :cool:
WizO_Catoblepas 12-22-04, 07:22 PM	Well, if a guest doesn't want to be on the council, then it's not like they have to be. I'm sure they're some that feel that way. :D
ChaosEvoker 12-22-04, 08:12 PM	Just become someone says they are wise doesn't make them wise. What you are suggesting is the type of blind "political correctness" that makes politics so stupid all the time. WE dealt with this issue , I thought, back at page one. If we hven't, then I would like to point out that NO MEMBER has complained or thought the counsil was bad or discriminating or anything. if they did, they told me NOTHING. If you have recieved any WizO Cat then they did not complain to me about it first. I refuse to remove the counsil, becuase I believe it is an efficent, helpful, beneficial to all system. If we must be too blind to "policy" and "preserving people's little feelings" that we cannot reason, then this foundation, the boards, and the game of Dungeons and Dragons is pointless and foolish. For D&D isn't about being "politically correct" or any of that junk. It's about facing challenges, adopting characters, and exploring the creative mind. If one is too worried about who might be a little upset if the fact that they have less experience is pointed out, then creativity and exploration is stiffled under fear. If you force this change on me, though whatever power you have I quit the Guild House and I WILL find a place somewhere to put this foundation where it will be accepted for what it is and how it likes to run its buisiness.
Shard of Suzail 12-22-04, 08:21 PM	Hmm, well i just joined this whole thing to help people and come up with ideas. I can see this turning ugly and I dont want to be sanctioned or otherwise caught up in the mess that this might end up as, so I formally quit and dissassociate myself with this whole foundation. I`m no longer anything to do with the council, I shall return to the main boards and help folks there.
ChaosEvoker 12-22-04, 08:26 PM	Actually, your right Shard, I shoudl know by now that people are too busy with their little policies to be albe to think. I also formally quit this foundation until which time it can be placed elsewhere, whether within these boards NOT in the Guild House or on some other forum elsewhere on the internet. NOTE TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE DUNGEON MASTER'S FOUNDATION: Due to the blindness of certain policies I will be again finding a place to relocate this foundation to, when I do you WILL BE INFORMED. Until then, I hope ot see you all in the future. Happy Holidays, CHAOS EVOKER
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-22-04, 11:30 PM	And I thought I was insane...You're all bonkers :D
Dyne 12-22-04, 11:33 PM	What the? Hadn't redhase just posted something here? What happened to it?
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-22-04, 11:44 PM	Indeed. I'm sure that He Who Will Die Alone And Unloved removed it.
Dyne 12-22-04, 11:51 PM	But... why? I didn't see anything wrong with it. Or, have I confused this with another thread? :thinks:
Mordmorgan the Mad 12-22-04, 11:56 PM	I have to say that I'm disappointed in the way things turned out. This was a place to get some of the best advice on the boards (and unfortunately my last refuge from the onslaught of EatFlan spam on the "What's a DM to do?" boards), and now it seems that we've lost two valuable members. ::Sigh:: I, for one, happened to like the council the way it was. I understand that it *technically* was in violation of the rules in the Guild House, but it didn't seem to be a problem up until now. I think that WizO_Catoblepas is probably very concerned with making everyone feel special and warm and fuzzy inside (which is fine), I just don't think it's necessary in a foundation where ALL the members act like adults. If that's the case, then I'm very sorry that we offended anyone. But... why? I didn't see anything wrong with it. Or, have I confused this with another thread? No, you're not confused. I didn't see anything wrong with it (other than the grammar and spell mistakes), but then again, I obviously don't possess the infinite wisdom of The Swamp Dweller.
Student Of The Mind 12-23-04, 02:38 AM	Ewww...Who wants to feel warm and fuzzy inside...That makes me feel funny, I dont like it! :D I dont use this thread because I'm part of some elite group. I also agree with Shard, I believe it's going to get ugly and I will :bow: out because I will not get pulled into something so silly. Good gaming.
WizO_Catoblepas 12-23-04, 08:32 AM	Ok, since there's been question to why I deleted text/posts on this thread, the reason is because that the subject of the text/post deleted was other guests. That is baiting, and it against the Code of Conduct. Please keep the posts to the subject matter of the thread. Thanks.
ChaosEvoker 12-23-04, 11:46 AM	HAIL TO THE DMF MEMBERS: ALL WHO WISH TO JOIN THE DMF WHERE IT WILL BE ACCEPTED AS IT IS MAY GO HERE: :w00t: THE DUNGEON MASTER'S FOUNDATION RETURNS!!!! :w00t: (http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111585)
WizO_Catoblepas 12-23-04, 01:39 PM	Well, since it's been announced that the foundation is dead ...