Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kevmann 06-25-03, 04:23 PM	Disclaimer: Hello, this is a re-creation of the human foundation here on the race thread. The old Human Foundation was shut down due to over-roleplaying, so lets not try to get our role-playing out of hand and focus on the issues and discussions surrounding humans in D&D... This is the human foundation, a foundation of all who love humans in D&D. We are the pure race with no cliche's attached! We are supperior in game mechanics, and are the most numerous race of all the civilizations. This is a foundation for those who love humans and rejoice in the name of humanity! I am Kevmann, the founder of the human foundation. Gellion is our honorary THREAD KEEPER and has all the powers to regulate all that conspires on this thread... Grimclaw is member #001 (and origional founder) Riggoras_44 is member #002 Ayrmeth is member #003 Anglar is member #004 Spellfire agogo is member #005 The Gray is member #006 Speaker is member #007 re1oaded is member #008 Silmarien Aldalome is member #009 Levay77 is member #010 Leviath Lord of Barbarian is member #011 Asok is member #012 Kain's Avatar is member #013 Gadodel is member #014 If I have missed you or you would like to join our group, please ask and ye shall receive! (special note to Grimclaw, the origonal founder of the Human Foundation, he has been given a place of honor as member #001)
Kevmann 06-25-03, 04:35 PM	Ok, the current discussion open to the human boards is human tribes. Should they exist? Here is what we have so far, please read over the rules and the tribes, and say if you believe any of them are overpowered, underpowered, or add your own geographical tribe as well! The Tribes of Humans Most humans live in towns, in cities, or rural areas connected to these towns, education is easy to come by as well as food and shelter. But some humans live far away from “civilization” and have to live on what they find, these humans are less educated city dwellers, but get special bonuses that are learned from living in hard places. To qualify to be a tribal human, you must have lived in said environment for more then 75% of your life and must have had little or no contact with modern civilization. This human could have lived on his own or with a small group of people no larger then a hamlet. Due to their lack of proper education, all tribal humans only get 2 extra skill points at first level and one extra at every odd level after that. And due to their lack of connection with other races, gain -2 to all diplomacy checks. And due to their individualness, get -2 to all fortitude saves vs. disease. Due to living in a harsh environment, all tribesmen get +4 to all intuit direction checks and may use it even if untrained. Desert tribe: These peoples are used to the sands of the desert. Such peoples are adept at finding and retaining water. They can go twice as long as a standard human being without water, and gets Fire Resistance 2. They also get a +4 bonus when hiding in hot or sandy areas, because they know how to use sand and heat waves to hide easily. And they get a +4 bonus to fortitude saving throws vs hot weather. Jungle tribe: The peoples are adept at being in the wild jungles and forests of the world. They get a +4 bonus to hide and move silently checks while in natural environments. They get poison use for free, and only suffer half the reduced movement rate for traveling through forests and jungles (This does not include traveling in the short term through bushes, briars, etc.). Arctic Tribe: These peoples are adept at being in the wild areas of the north were it is always cold. They get a +4 bonus when hiding in snowy areas, and get Cold Resistance 2, and gain a +4 bonus to fortitude saves vs. cold weather. Swamp tribe: These peoples are adept at moving and staying hidden even in the most deadly of bogs and swamps. These people know were to step, and only suffer half the reduced movement rate for movement in swamps. They get a +2 bonus to hide and move silently checks while in swamps, and they get poison use for free. Wasteland tribe: These people are used to living in wastelands such as steppes and other harsh environments. Due to high winds in such areas, they can see twice as far in windy conditions, get a +4 bonus to saving throws against the wind in such conditions, and can move at full speed. Mountain Tribe: The mountain tribes are those who know how to live on the mountains. They get +4 to balance and climb checks, and a +1 bonus to all reflex saves. Subterranean Tribe: These are peoples of the far removed underworld. They get low-light vision, light sensitivity 1, and the blind fight feat for free.
The Gray 06-25-03, 04:40 PM	Bestow me with a number, Kevmann! As for human tribes, I think our race should just be our race. We'd end up like elves (wether we called em tribes or subraces) if we had too many variations. Although those do seem to be well balanced and such. Humans forever!
Kevmann 06-25-03, 04:44 PM	Welcome, the Gray! You are member #006 Yes, many have stated this argument before, thank you for your opinion. But, as it is, what do you think of the current tribes?
Jamma 06-25-03, 07:27 PM	hello humens this is jamma so can any body help me i need ideas for my foundation so if any body hase any plz tell me I'm a old humen foundation member :confused: :D
Riggoras_44 06-25-03, 08:09 PM	Yay! The human foundation is back, revamped to show that we can be politically correct and still rule! Anyway, you know that I vote yes for the human tribes. They're not really subraces, just humans who got to live diferently.
Orcy The Green Wonder 06-25-03, 08:30 PM	Orcy sees you will be doing less rol-playing. He thinks this a good thing in this case, but don't come to one of his games with that attitude. However, Orcy doesnt know about tribes for humans. Maybe in a campaign setting in a different area they could be used as a variant human, however Orcy doesnt know. Humans are the way they are with the skills and feats so they may be diverse. He doesnt know if they need more.
Speaker 06-25-03, 08:50 PM	I would love to be apart of this foundation. I can't imagine playing without my extra feat and 23 more skill points. Where do i sign?
Kevmann 06-25-03, 09:20 PM	Jamma, I rocommend, due to the discussions and problems with the old human board, I recommend a disclaimer in your opening post (so there is no confusion). And since you are an old member, did you want to be a member of the new human organization? And Speaker, you are now member #007, welcome! Feel free to post your opinion of the current discusion of tribal humans.
The Gray 06-25-03, 09:33 PM	Woo-hoo! I'm human! I like the tribes themselves, balanced with appropriate abilities, I just don't like the idea of them. We can get along in different regions and such, that's what we use our extra feat and skills for (or at least, that's what I think we use 'em for). What's our motto? "Humans: We have more feat than you." EDIT: Hey, I just had an idea. I think they'd be better and more human-ey if we made them 1st-level-human-only feats (which I think someone said on the old thread). How 'bout it? I'd be willing to pitch in, regardless.
Riggoras_44 06-25-03, 10:01 PM	These tribes aren't for a particular setting, they're for general use. That's why you will see each has a generic description like "desert tribe, jungle tribe, etc." I believe they're a good idea (why wouldn't they?), and there's a good excuse why they have different atributes from the urban human. I was I who suggested giving tribal attributes to the humans via feats :) but I believe Kevmann's alternative is a very good one and I support it.
Palin the Wizard 06-26-03, 03:29 AM	Hmmm... Well. I don't like the idea of tribes either. It shouldn't be abilities, rather feats, IMO. Else, you're just making subraces for humans.... who shouldn't really have any direct subrace as they are already contributing to several other races (half elf, half orc, tieflings, aasimars, genasi... a lot). Make it "cultural" feats.
Kevmann 06-26-03, 03:42 AM	Palin the Wizard, that is exactly what we are trying to do. We are trying to make classes that are not subraces, just more like humans from a different terrain were they have lived alone or with a very small amount of people for the majority of thier life. After realy thinking hard about the class, I belive that we should take off abilities like cold and fire resistance, or at least reduce them to 2 (just enough to help with weather). And instead, replace it with bonus feats, skills, and perhaps trained abilities (such as poision use). What do you guys think?
Kevmann 06-26-03, 04:25 PM	As an example of what I am saying, let me show you an example of the Desert Tribe: These peoples are used to the sands of the desert. Such peoples are adept at finding and retaining water. They can go twice as long as a standard human being without water, and gets Fire Resistance 2. They also get a +4 bonus when hiding in hot or sandy areas, because they know how to use sand and heat waves to hide easily. So you see, the Fire Resistance has been reduced to 2 (which means it is hardly a "special" ability and it only works against weather, and all the rest deal with skills and trained abilities). So do you think I should convert all of the tribes to fit this rule?
Speaker 06-26-03, 07:23 PM	ill skip the 007 joke and go straight to my post...... I like the idea of tribal humans, it gives them more flavor. it reminds me of the Iron Kingdom setting, there are around 5 human nations with about 10 "cultrally" different human types depending on what nation and region your from. Its really great because each one has different preferred class, stat adjustments and skill bonuses. Now if the player doesn't like that he can be from the region of choice but use the phb version of the human too. i think having sub races of humans is great and these tribal human concepts are great too. good stuff.
Kevmann 06-26-03, 08:00 PM	Do you think we should re-make them to be more skill/feat/trained ability based?
Ayrmeth 06-27-03, 12:20 PM	Hi all, shame about the demise of the 1st Human foundation but here hpes that the new one will be all the better!! Kevmann - i like the way you've done the tribes, but am inclined to agree with Palin the wizard that they should be feats only available at 1st level - rather than dividing humans into city folk and tribesmen... This could start people calling them sub-races (as some already have) That being said im still keen on the idea of humans with more flavour to them. As far as i can see the tribes are a little under powered based on the following... compared to standard human -2 skill points at 1st level -10 skill points levels 2,4,6 to 20 -2 to diplomacy checks -2 to fort saves Vs disease In return you get a tribal human who will (hopefully) have more gaming potential and be more fun (in certain games) +4 to intuit direction And (jungle tribe for example) +4 to Hide checks (in natural terrain only) +4 to move silently checks (as above) Poison use By my rekoning that makes them slightly more powerful at 1st to 4th level and increasing weak after 5th level. I think we may be better looking at elemental resistance (as some already have) and special abilities like sneak attack D3 or D4 (stacks with rogue) and +1 or 2 natural armour. Any how just some thoughts to chuck into the mix Cheers :angel:
Kevmann 06-27-03, 05:06 PM	Ahh, I did not even think about NA, of course +1 Natural Armor is more of a racial thing then a taught thing. You see, I think you are corect about these classes, I do not want them to be considered sub-races, therefore I am going back into each one and re-working it so that its abilitys are abilites that can be trained such as skills/feats/and other trained abilities.
Riggoras_44 06-27-03, 11:26 PM	Hey, allies of the Human foundation, I got this new idea... As I see them, there are really no such things as human stereotypes, at least not very representative ones. However, I would like to propose this: if you think you're up to it, submit a post with the most stereotypical human characters you've ever seen roleplayed. No stats required, just a post with the character's overview and what you think it represents as a stereotype. Good luck posting!
Silmarien Aldalome 06-27-03, 11:28 PM	G'day Kevmann. You did a fantastic job the other week of bringing things to life with the voice of the baddies. I haven't had that much fun for a long time. :bow: I think we should all thank you. A 'sauronic' voice is needed where we were asked to 'travel to' by the moderator :cool: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=607090#post607090 Set up your Own One-Land Thread, and start an 'evil' domain. Anyhowz - to honour the precepts of this thread: I think humans need to have -2 to wisdom as a base modifier - power hungry race c.f. other races? And, compared to other races, probably stronger. cheers sil
Squid 06-27-03, 11:44 PM	I'm not sure if this idea has been mentioned before for the 'Tribal' humans, but what if allowing a first level human-only feat that gave some or all of the tribal benefits?
Riggoras_44 06-27-03, 11:47 PM	No. If you take in consideration human greed, avarice, ambition, opportunism, love for material possesions, and willingness to backstab you and take the booty, you will notice that only a +2 to intelligence and wisdom makes justice to humanity.
Kevmann 06-28-03, 12:04 AM	I have considered the thought of giving tribal feats. But although it makes sense in game mechanics, it does not make sense in the real world. If you have two human people who have lived in a tribe in a certain area all of their life, why would one get the tribal feat and the other not? I mean, with the stats we are talking here, it realy does not make sense. As I said earlier, when I have some time I will try and go through all of the tribes again and do only learned abilities.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-28-03, 12:07 AM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 No. If you take in consideration human greed, avarice, ambition, opportunism, love for material possesions, and willingness to backstab you and take the booty, you will notice that only a +2 to intelligence and wisdom makes justice to humanity. Greetings Riggoras - what's the weather like there in Honduras? It's a stunning sunny day here in Melbourne - but crisp and cold. OK - human greed, avarice, ambition, opportunism, love for material possession, backstabbing= :cool: but.... -2 Wisdom (cheeky smile) And +2 Intelligence +2 Charisma (you gotta be a sweet talker to get away with it).... Racial Template for 'bad' humans Str=? Int=+2, Wis=-2, Dex=0, Con=0, Cha=+2 This might be 'street-smart human'. But, they are an adaptable and varied race. I think your 'tribal' constructs are interesting, and may allow modifiers across different Abilities, depending on cultural context? cheers sil
Riggoras_44 06-28-03, 12:19 AM	Well, it's 10:15 p.m. already, and I couldn't tell you about the weather because my brother has the air turned on and I'm freezing cold. I live in the capital, Tegucigalpa, so it doesn't get as hot as in the coast, but sometimes the sun can get real burning, and in winter it's cold (as in no-way-I'm-taking-a-shower-in-the-morning cold). Well, basically it depends on how you raise you standard human, as Rousseau suggested. What I portrayed is most likely the description for an urban human. But there can always be those wildman, psychotic, or otherwisely deranged humans out there that would have very different atributes.
Kevmann 06-28-03, 12:21 AM	Nay, I disagree. Loss of wisdom may be all good and well for those chaotic evil people who run around destroying. But to the Lawful evil, those who wish to accumilate power and rule over all, it takes a wise person to go through with numerous plots and subterfuge. Just because your evil doesn't mean you have to be unwise. Of course, humans already get a sort of "bonus" to intellegence because they do get an extra skill per level, which is basically +2 to int when it comes to skills.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-28-03, 01:08 AM	damned double posts - ignore this one, and see next entry
Silmarien Aldalome 06-28-03, 01:09 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann [B]Just because your evil doesn't mean you have to be unwise. Maybe - core rules certainly have to sustain this position or else we'd have imbalance ability scores across the different alignments - which wouldn't work well. But, one could argue that it is unwise to be evil in the first place. Because, it is necessarily an existence that would garner no support (except by coercion) from others. At the evolutionary level of thinking (I know, D&D is not necessarily compliant with this view) but 'the herd' must stick together to survive. Members must commune/help each other, care, bond, mothers must protect. These 'touchy feely' things aren't valued by evil. Evil is, categorically, self-serving and without empathy and love? Anyhowz, gotta do my exercise now - am off to keep fit. Will check boards later. Cheers sil PS - great to see you in the Narrative Again....take care until next time
Kevmann 06-28-03, 02:33 AM	I kind of think the opposite, that it is unwise to be unselfish. WHen all you have to think about is yourself, you don't have alot to focus on. But when you put on a whole bunch of moral baggage, you have to start thinking of others and what is fair. I think that our world has put a good spin on good people (the good guys always win, the bad guys never do). When in fact I belive it is the exact opposite, that the bad guys (and I mean real bad guys, true evil, not criminals on the side of the road) almost always win in the end.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-28-03, 02:54 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann I kind of think the opposite, that it is unwise to be unselfish. WHen all you have to think about is yourself, you don't have alot to focus on. But when you put on a whole bunch of moral baggage, you have to start thinking of others and what is fair. I think that our world has put a good spin on good people (the good guys always win, the bad guys never do). When in fact I belive it is the exact opposite, that the bad guys (and I mean real bad guys, true evil, not criminals on the side of the road) almost always win in the end. is it always immoral to be a selfish human? I'd say not, because sometimes, by being selfless, one is also selfish all at once - both and neither. ...I've heard this called "human ethical hedonism" - where Kin Networks are protected (selfish for each individual) by working together (selflessness) ...anyhowz - I'm sure there's some truth in what you say because "I know that I do not Know." cheers until when Silly-Marien
Riggoras_44 06-28-03, 03:28 AM	Who wins in the end? Simple... The winner is the corporation that cuts down an entire forest no matter the efforts of the ecologists protecting the woods. The winner is the transnational organization that tramples on the local economy of the third world countries. The winner is the african radical faction that steals its fundings for warfare weaponry from the country's money for education and healt. The winner is the conqueror that overcomes the American natives with superior firepower in his search for gold, steals their lands and enslaves them. In conclusion, this world is pretty friggin' bad. When these very powerful wrong-doers completely have obliterated their weak contenders, there's no denying they have won whichever kind of conflict that had taken place. This is the reality scenario. The morality that applies in these cases is pretty practical in nature. It's a fight for interests, and its consequences are disastrous when under this perspective: the loser usually loses everything that sustained him, or what he believed in. Never tought I'd have to post anything like this on a DnD board :D.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-28-03, 03:43 AM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 Who wins in the end? Simple... To interweave what you've said in alignment with Human Foundation's Purpose, I'd like to steer the previous post's (wise) words into the whole idea of humanity and D&D alignments: I'd have to agree in that excessive and unchecked greed leans Human Alignments towards the D&D idea of 'evil'...Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic Evil...so, in terms of 'winning', well, even the Evil alignments of D&D - if they're not stopped, won't 'winning' anything, because there won't be anyone at all left to celebrate 'winning'.... hmmmm.....our Earth is hurting :( Too many of us, hey.....
grendle 06-28-03, 03:43 AM	As leader` of the Dragons i offer peace among you humans. And I ask Thee do you accept?
Kevmann 06-28-03, 03:50 AM	grendle, here on the boards of the race, we make peace with all and other foundations, and never excommunicate any from here. We view every persons opioion with a fresh mind. So in answer to the dragons, yes, we make peace.
Riggoras_44 06-28-03, 04:02 AM	You're right, Silmariel. I cannot believe how just next door (the Classes board) people were discussing alignment, and several dared to comment that, considering how alignment encompasses concepts, humanity was neutral with tendance to good. People should think of the picture a little bigger than their neighborhood community, am I not right?
ShadeGirl 06-28-03, 04:06 AM	I personally am chaotic neutral, and since I am human (:D ) I believe this has relevance on this thread. I don't claim to be of good alignment, but I know many human D&D players who claim to be so, despite actions that dictate otherwise. I believe most of the people in the modern day world are neutral for a great portion of their lives.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-28-03, 04:17 AM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 You're right, Silmariel. I cannot believe how just next door (the Classes board) people were discussing alignment, and several dared to comment that, considering how alignment encompasses concepts, humanity was neutral with tendance to good. People should think of the picture a little bigger than their neighborhood community, am I not right? OK - let's take care guys - this is another really interesting take on alignment in relation to humanity's views of society. I'd have to agree in that the wider the view - that encompases more than just local community (without forgetting the local community) the more chance of getting at the 'truth'. I also like the previous poster's view - which seems to me to be a reminder that 'actions' not just 'words' should truly define D&D alignments. That is, do a characters' actions align with their words (congruence) or do they say one thing and do another (incongruence). So, I think there really is an argument to say that the 'greater the congruence' the closer to 'good' D&D alignment, and the further from 'evil' ones very interesting guys silly-marien
Riggoras_44 06-28-03, 12:06 PM	Hey, allies of the Human foundation, I got this new idea... As I see them, there are really no such things as human stereotypes, at least not very representative ones. However, I would like to propose this: if you think you're up to it, submit a post with the most stereotypical human characters you've ever seen roleplayed. No stats required, just a post with the character's overview and what you think it represents as a stereotype. Good luck posting! I think scrolling is against the rules, but I hope nobody on this foundation will be against this. What do you people think?
Kevmann 06-28-03, 10:21 PM	Ok, here is the new and improved tribes: The Tribes of Humans Most humans live in towns, in cities, or rural areas connected to these towns, education is easy to come by as well as food and shelter. But some humans live far away from “civilization” and have to live on what they find, these humans are less educated city dwellers, but get special bonuses that are learned from living in hard places. To qualify to be a tribal human, you must have lived in said environment for more then 75% of your life and must have had little or no contact with modern civilization. This human could have lived on his own or with a small group of people no larger then a hamlet. Due to their lack of proper education, all tribal humans only get 2 extra skill points at first level and one extra at every odd level after that. And due to their lack of connection with other races, gain -2 to all diplomacy checks. And due to their individualness, get -2 to all fortitude saves vs. disease. Due to living in a harsh environment, all tribesmen get +4 to all intuit direction checks and may use it even if untrained. Desert tribe: These peoples are used to the sands of the desert. Such peoples are adept at finding and retaining water. They can go twice as long as a standard human being without water, and gets Fire Resistance 2. They also get a +4 bonus when hiding in hot or sandy areas, because they know how to use sand and heat waves to hide easily. And they get a +4 bonus to fortitude saving throws vs hot weather. Jungle tribe: The peoples are adept at being in the wild jungles and forests of the world. They get a +4 bonus to hide and move silently checks while in natural environments. They get poison use for free, and only suffer half the reduced movement rate for traveling through forests and jungles (This does not include traveling in the short term through bushes, briars, etc.). Arctic Tribe: These peoples are adept at being in the wild areas of the north were it is always cold. They get a +4 bonus when hiding in snowy areas, and get Cold Resistance 2, and gain a +4 bonus to fortitude saves vs. cold weather. Swamp tribe: These peoples are adept at moving and staying hidden even in the most deadly of bogs and swamps. These people know were to step, and only suffer half the reduced movement rate for movement in swamps. They get a +2 bonus to hide and move silently checks while in swamps, and they get poison use for free. Wasteland tribe: These people are used to living in wastelands such as steppes and other harsh environments. Due to high winds in such areas, they can see twice as far in windy conditions, get a +4 bonus to saving throws against the wind in such conditions, and can move at full speed. Mountain Tribe: The mountain tribes are those who know how to live on the mountains. They get +4 to balance and climb checks, and a +1 bonus to all reflex saves. Subterranean Tribe: These are peoples of the far removed underworld. They get low-light vision, light sensitivity 1, and the blind fight feat for free.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-28-03, 11:23 PM	look great - a lot of work in those, congrats.... best silly-marien
Riggoras_44 06-29-03, 12:30 AM	:bow: So we can say the project has reached its term, uh? The tribes now need only to be tested. And then promoted among the masses.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-29-03, 10:20 PM	hey peoples, i've been thinking about 'human matters' and I would like to see some development of the ideas around 'human vulnerabilities' ;) In particular, 'lore' might suggest that humans are particularly vulnerable to 'being seduced' (by power - don't get carnal everyone). I'm wanting to understand what exactly, it is about their 'natures' or 'cultures' (i.e. nature versus nurture) that leaves them vulnerable being enamoured of 'tainted gifts'. I'm leaning a bit on LOTR view of the weaknesses of Men. But, I think there might be some room to develop this idea in CORE rules sense. cheers sil
Kevmann 06-29-03, 10:32 PM	Ahh, the weakness in men. It is in fact their greatest strength that is their greatest weakness, their drive to be better. You see, although the drive to be better and adapt quickly leads humans to normaly be smarter and easy to go into any situation. Unfortunantly, this means that humanity loves to take short cuts to get the power they want. "tainted gifts" as you call them are how humans get a shortcut to get better fast, unfortunantly these short cuts normaly have moral issues, but many humans are willing to let these issues slide for the gained power.
Riggoras_44 06-29-03, 10:54 PM	It is interesting how in the occidental culture, men are more propense to be atracted by personal interests and their actions are focused on gaining wealth, power, etc. Even the catolic church in the middle ages was very interested in politics for its own interests, and that happened as well at the level of its governing structure, as it happened to individual figures. It is hard to believe how an institution that taught so much about the worthlesness of material posesions was so easily corrupted by them. On the other hand, the ancient oriental culture had a philosophy much more focused on virtues, particularly honor, as far as I know. But that culture is all but lost now.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-29-03, 11:23 PM	Interesting comments. The greatest strength as the greatest weakness - there can be no knowing of Light unless there is knowing of Unlight. - and Human Morality - you've touched on the "means-ends" views of human morality. In human 'meta-ethics' (the 'ethics of ethical options'), it is Utilitarian to justify the means with the ends (e.g. sometimes violence justifies outcomes - e.g. a typically Utilitarian view is locking people with tuberculosis away because they may risk others' health). But in another view - the deontological view (civil Libertarians), or in the Rule Utilitarian view, the morality is in the 'action' itself. Thus, no means can be justified by the ends, if the means is immoral (by intruding on individual freedom, or by harming others). In regards to the second posting - I the ancient Oriental cultures touched upon. I am no expert, but what little I do understand is that their philosophies encouraged equanimity, balance, and vigilance around egoism. This would be where egoic anything is anything that splits the world into 'this and that' 'here and there' 'mine and yours'. Perhaps simplistic, but someone out there might know more??? :) In thinking about these & human vulnerabilities in D&D. Shortcuts, and egoism as the Banes of Men and the Road to Evil (chaotic, lawful and neutral) - One Will extended through Minions - . Tres cool in terms of Human Matters. Then...this begs the question of Redemption... cheers until suddenly Silmarien
Riggoras_44 06-30-03, 12:44 AM	I don't believe evil as emcompassed in DnD reflects the nature of what consists in human "evil". The game's take on it is a little boring and different from reality. As a single example: Sometimes people will do wrong and harm because they have become desperate because the world won't let them apply their ideals as they have intended to. This was historically reflected on the Nazis, for an example. Of course, Hitler had a realy twisted take on how to lead Germany to glory. But don't you wonder why he had so many followers? It is for this reason: because that country was practically cracking under the crisis in the 30's. I don't think as many as 80% of Germany had a beef against the jews, but they saw a leader in Hitler and they accepted his ideology. The Palestinians wouldn't hate the Israelians as an instinctive reaction, but they do because they realise there will be hardly any other way to recover the land they see as stolen (and maybe rightfully so). These harmful elements of humanity exist, not because they are "evil" in nature, nor because they were raised to be evil, nor because they have a large interest in their personal wealth. Nowhere in a book of DnD you will see any moral view that comprehends this form of human destruction. Basically the simplistic alignment system would leave you blind on this matter if you took it as a moral reference.
Silmarien Aldalome 06-30-03, 01:11 AM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 I don't believe evil as emcompassed in DnD reflects the nature of what consists in human "evil". The game's take on it is a little boring and different from reality. I heard Stephen Donaldson giving a lecture in Melbourne many years ago about the nature of human 'evil'. Like you, he steered away from 2-dimensional accounts. He was focussed on narcissism, self-serving egoism, absence of empathy, deception. And one I find particularly interesting, is Human 'self-deception'. A difficult construct. It requires that humans can somehow 'know' that something is 'false' while at the same time, somehow 'defend' themselves from 'the knowing of this falsehood'. It's at about that point that I start to go 'la la la la'... *grabs baby-rattle* *ga ga ga....* I'm so confused...... This was historically reflected on the Nazis, for an example. Of course, Hitler had a realy twisted take on how to lead Germany to glory. But don't you wonder why he had so many followers? Do you guys refer to him as 'the seducer' like so many Aussie documentaries do? Yes, I agree, people had 'the will to go along with it' didn't they. He couldn't have done it without capitulating millions. So, is this 'Human' evil different to that of 'evil' in other D&D races??? cheers sil-cross-eyed-marien
The Gray 06-30-03, 01:15 AM	There are a lot of interesting ideas regarding humanity's alignment here, but . . . I don't think humans should be considered 'inherently' anything. Modern society is, yes, pretty crappy, but not everyone is a tree-hacking bunny-killer out for a bajillion dollars. That is a substantial part of the population, but not all of us. This especially applies in D&D. In-game, humans are the great mixing pot of the races. I guess my Creation myth/general info for us guys sums my opinion of our race pretty well: Humans were created as a group effort by the seven major gods of Unia. (Gaul, Raq, Lok, Taryla, Saal, Formil, Garvandor, Yvol, the three Moon Goddesses, and the now-dead star goddess Sevani). They are part of the Big Folk. They were designed as a race of free will, masters of their own fate. They were modeled after the combined forms of all the races, and possess great flexability and adaptability. They are not predisposed to any alignment, whether ethical or moral, nor any church. They are able to crossbreed with nearly any other race (orcs, elves, true fey, outsiders, and many others). Humans are usually friendly with many other civilizations, though their easily corruptible and conquering nature often garners dislike from some good and neutral peoples. Thus, Kevmann is pretty much right: Our greatest strength is also our greatest flaw. While I do agree the drive for power is a candidate for this 'great,' I think it's actually our free-will. The gods (or, IRL, God, or Alah, or whatever you worship) created us as the choosers. We decide our own fates, and aren't controlled by our gods as are all the others. This makes us both open to the most divine goodness, and the most vile of temptations. In other words: It's whatever you decide. So I guess I didn't need to say anything . . . unless you decided I'm right . . . but then what . . . oh whatever. "We have more feat than you!"
Riggoras_44 06-30-03, 01:28 AM	I conceive that yes, this form of evil would be different than the standard of other races in DnD. Humans, unlike the others, have no sense of self moderation. You will see that in DnD, all races but humans have something they inherently respect. Elves respect nature, Dwarves respect their law and their land, etc. The complexity of human capacity to oppress their own sooner or later leads to a desperate situation where wrong can emerge as inherent destruction. There are remarcable and recent examples of this IRL, and it is a feature pretty much unique to humans for the reason stated above. Tough in other ways, the common human's capacity to do evil isn't any greater than that of any other race. Just on the specific aspect of their activities in society, humans would prove capable to be more harmful than any other race.
Kevmann 07-01-03, 04:18 AM	I put out a call to all of you of the Human Foundation, we have need of your strength in the ONE LAND (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48404). It is a world were wild nature rules the world, and if us humans are to cut our own place there, we must fight for it. Some come, all of you humans, we are need! OOC: The one land is a thread that takes on were we left off here with the old human foundation. It is alot of role-playing, and it is alot of fun. Here is the site, just come read some of it and you will get hooked: THE ONE LAND (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48404)
OrigamiCommando 07-01-03, 03:00 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome I think humans need to have -2 to wisdom as a base modifier - power hungry race c.f. other races? Perhaps a -1 or -2 to Will checks towards greed affects, but not a -2 to Wisdom "Sometimes I get so greedy I have trouble seeing stuff really far away." See what I mean? Originally posted by Riggoras_44 This was historically reflected on the Nazis, for an example. Of course, Hitler had a realy twisted take on how to lead Germany to glory. But don't you wonder why he had so many followers? Because he had a high Leadership Score *rimshot* Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome To interweave what you've said in alignment with Human Foundation's Purpose, I'd like to steer the previous post's (wise) words into the whole idea of humanity and D&D alignments: I'd have to agree in that excessive and unchecked greed leans Human Alignments towards the D&D idea of 'evil'...Lawful, Neutral and Chaotic Evil...so, in terms of 'winning', well, even the Evil alignments of D&D - if they're not stopped, won't 'winning' anything, because there won't be anyone at all left to celebrate 'winning'.... hmmmm.....our Earth is hurting :( Too many of us, hey..... I disagreed with this point last time, Sil, and I still do. Human alignments may lead toward greed and evil but I'd wager just as many lean toward Neutral and Good. And don't worry about the Earth. It's been around for hundreds of millions of years and there's nothing we can do to it that won't be rectified in a million or so years. We will know when there are two many of us on this world because mother nature has good ways of handling overpopulation: famine, pestilence, and war. The world isn't dying, we are. And thus the pendulum swings on and on, never ceasing for man... Originally posted by Riggoras_44 I cannot believe how just next door (the Classes board) people were discussing alignment, and several dared to comment that, considering how alignment encompasses concepts, humanity was neutral with tendance to good. People should think of the picture a little bigger than their neighborhood community, am I not right? Human Alignment is Any for this very reason. There is no main human alignment because we are all different. There is no such thing as a majority of one or the other with us. That's part of the beauty of being man. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nice foundation, though I'm amazed Tenzhi hasn't ambled by and made his infamous comparisons of humans with T-shirts (I found it rather amusing).
Riggoras_44 07-01-03, 04:57 PM	Oh, hasn't he? No matter, because nobody pays him attention anyways :P
Riggoras_44 07-01-03, 05:25 PM	Hitler was charismatic, ok ("high leadership score"? How long have you been playing this game?). But outside of the historical and regional context that he lived in, he wouldn't have become so powerful, nor his ideas would have been so extremist. No matter how strong-willed and reasonable you may sound, you wouldn't be able to convince an unwilling person to leap from a skyscraper rooftop or kill his brother. Hitler did exploit the need of the Germans to blame someone for the disaster in their country and their blind wish to become a high standard in the world once again. Remember that the Nazi germany was NOT an extension of Hitler. The germans weren't the innocent hand controlled by an evil brain; they were willing to trash the jews and promote their racism. It is a common mistake to give personalities all the credit for historical progress, while instead it is the other way around. And don't worry about the Earth. It's been around for hundreds of millions of years and there's nothing we can do to it that won't be rectified in a million or so years. We will know when there are two many of us on this world because mother nature has good ways of handling overpopulation: famine, pestilence, and war. The world isn't dying, we are. And thus the pendulum swings on and on, never ceasing for man... This is a Malthusian view of demography (disaster will control population). And a rather cold one of it at that. Earth isn't going to fix itself magically. If you think we're heading off to better times, then you shoud trust a better argument than blind luck. This lack of preocupation of yours can't be a good thing. "Hand over things to the next generation, or maybe to the president of the world". It's better to start working positively right now, than wait for a thousand of so year, time by which a few more millions of species will have disappeared, and with luck we may not be counted among that number. Yes, excess population will simply die (and we should grieve for that) but the excess of ambiental damage doesn't die by itself. And last thing, human alignment "any" is just an idealistic view used by WoTC and by many people. Really, if we judged humanity for its actions, we would have a better picture of our own wrongs than if we judge humans for their lack of predisposition to lean into either right or wrong. Just my point of view.
Spellfire agogo 07-01-03, 07:28 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 :bow: So we can say the project has reached its term, uh? The tribes now need only to be tested. And then promoted among the masses. I'm testing them w/ my group at the moment and they seem to be holding up quite nicely.
Riggoras_44 07-01-03, 07:51 PM	So now we can move to another project (unless you want to playtest all the way up every epic level creature's arse). Yay, now people will pay attention to my contest post. Nobody has even considered it tough I posted it on the 1st and 2nd page.
Kevmann 07-01-03, 09:49 PM	I tend to half agree. Hitler used terrorist attacks to increase his power. They set fire to their own government building, and get this, blamed it on communists :). But, I think it was also the people fault, because humans have a natural tendency to want to hate, to want to feel superior. I mean, look in high-school, if they found one person that was different then them, they always teased and proded, all a way to show their own superiority. As soon as the idea spread that jews were inferior to germans, or even more they could be terrorists, it was easy to look down upon them as an inferior race, and therefore easier to lock them up and get rid of them, even kill them. Of course, this is also a case of out of sight out of mind for most germans as well. I'm testing them w/ my group at the moment and they seem to be holding up quite nicely. GREAT, man, I am sure that all of us here at the human foundation appreciate that you trust us enough to test the human tribes with your own D&D group. I can't wait to here the details! What tribes are you using? Does it help role-play? Have you found anything unbalancing, or underbalancing? As for our next project, that is an interesting idea... Ok, ideas people, what should be next on the agenda for the human foundation?
OrigamiCommando 07-01-03, 10:08 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 This is a Malthusian view of demography (disaster will control population). And a rather cold one of it at that. Earth isn't going to fix itself magically. If you think we're heading off to better times, then you shoud trust a better argument than blind luck. This lack of preocupation of yours can't be a good thing. "Hand over things to the next generation, or maybe to the president of the world". It's better to start working positively right now, than wait for a thousand of so year, time by which a few more millions of species will have disappeared, and with luck we may not be counted among that number. Yes, excess population will simply die (and we should grieve for that) but the excess of ambiental damage doesn't die by itself. And last thing, human alignment "any" is just an idealistic view used by WoTC and by many people. Really, if we judged humanity for its actions, we would have a better picture of our own wrongs than if we judge humans for their lack of predisposition to lean into either right or wrong. Just my point of view. Earth won't fix itself magically, but it will fix itself in time. Nothing outlasts the passage of time. It may take a span of time you and I could never comprehend but we will not have a permenant effect on this planet. Nothing we have or do now matters in the long run. Even if we killed ourselves and everything else in this world the aftermath would fade away and life would begin anew down the line. What a race does means nothing unless every member of the race collectively does it. That would be like me calling you a murderer and a cannibal because of what Jeffrey Dalmer did. A racial alignment consists entirely of how a race is (what alignment best describes it's overall personality). None of these best describes the overall human personality because we are diverse and adaptive, so we are Any. It's not idealized, it just makes sense. As for Hitler: Hitler was a genious when it came to making sure his right hand had no idea what his left hand was doing. Most the nazis and hitler youth had no idea what was happening in the death camps because they didn't need to. Allies didn't even find it out until really late in the war. Many of the hitler youth when interviewed later are disgusted with what was happening and ashamed of the things they were fighting for all those years. Charisma will get you everywhere in this world and Hitler had it in spades. I just say he had high Leadership score as a joke but if you converted him to D&D he probably would have that high score.
Kevmann 07-01-03, 10:12 PM	OK, enough about fixing the world, that is for a different thread :)
OrigamiCommando 07-01-03, 10:26 PM	Why fix something we couldn't possibly break? :) Enough of that though, this is a thread on D&D humans. If we disagree on human alignment in the real world, then you'd have to at least contemplate that it'd be different in the D&D world. Because there is one sharp contrast from this world and that one. In the world of D&D, humans are not at the top of the food chain. A race that is actively hunted by predetors greater than it, in my opinion, wouldn't have the luxery of greed and follishness. Now in average greyhawk where we are pretty prevelant, it may be like alignments here in real life (still Any according to me, but we aren't going to change eachothers minds, so why argue). Races who squabble with eachother during troubled times don't succeed in evolving, overcome their enviornment, or get along well with the world around them: these races die. I personally disagree with much of Tolkien's views on the way man acts in troubled times, but hey, that maybe just me. :D
Riggoras_44 07-01-03, 11:35 PM	What do you mean, humans don't have the chance to grow greedy and luxurious? Just because they are huge stupid things like ogres that like to eat them? C'mon, the goblinoids and other stupid humanoids aren't a threat for the existance of humanity. Any decent low-level party of adventurers has its own tactics to turn these creatures into fertilizer. On the other hand, humans, more than any other races, have the chance to be luxurious and greedy; their societies grow to a more complex and free-form level that allows any person with a bit of spark to make her profit. That is so true that even other races go to human cities with the intent of making their life like they could not in any other place, but they always remain a minority. What other race, if you will tell me, grows more prosperous in terms of social conglomerates than humans? Name me one, only one that surpasses us in those terms. Social flexibility and growth, are our passes to the right to claim our greed and luxury.
Kevmann 07-02-03, 12:15 AM	In the world of D&D, humans are not at the top of the food chain. This is not true. Here in the real world, we have creatures that are vastly larger, stronger, and faster then we are, and we win out on all of them. In D&D we have two things going for us, adaptability and numbers. I belive that humans ARE at the top of the food chain. Dragons are seen as better then humans, but they go out every once and a while to eat some and destroy some. But they are constantly hounded by dragon-hunters seeking there treasure, no matter how powerful a creature is, there a a load of humans more powerful then it. In D&D and in the real world, humans are neutral to the bone. We are naturaly selfish, just look at children. We are competitive, and sometimes take shortcuts to get ahead, and sometimes these shortcuts have moral drawbacks, but in general humans are neutral through and through.
OrigamiCommando 07-02-03, 12:59 AM	As far as the top of the food chain goes, the goblinoids are pansies; I'm referring to real monsters like dragons and intelligent undead. If the majority of people can't beat a beast or creature using their modern weaponry, they are not the top of the food chain. Only things with no natural predetors can claim that. Things that don't raid and kill for survival but for the sheer pleasure of it. And the greed I'm referring to is the kind exhibited today: uninhibited by the creatures of this world. I prefer darker D&D games where humanoids (humans in particular) must learn to work together or die. And they would because humans are versatile and adaptive, just as you said. :D Peoples gather in human cities because everyone loves humans. Well, everyone except the centaurs (what the hell's their problem with us anyways?) and some other monsters. The kind of sloth and greed you speak of is most likely going to only be available when the human industrial age rolls around; till then, it's dog eat dog, baby, and only those who work as a team will survive. :cool:
Gellion 07-02-03, 01:25 AM	ooohhh can i join?:D
The Gray 07-02-03, 01:26 AM	Hey Kevmann, is the ONE LAND Human Foundation thread open to any of us Humanites? As it says only those allowed in by you (which as of now is you and Riggoras) can comment on them. I'd be willing to participate, but I don't wanna intrude on anything I need permission from the Head Human for. "We STILL have more feat than you!!!"
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 07-02-03, 01:29 AM	Originally posted by Gellion ooohhh can i join?:D Hiya Galeros! ^_^ I guess it worked! Cheers, ES aka Amiel
Gellion 07-02-03, 01:32 AM	oohhh hiya yep it did, thanks. sorry for the OT post everybody.
Kevmann 07-02-03, 01:33 AM	Of course you can Gellion, you are member #008, welcome aboard!!! The Gray, the One Land is open to everyone! All you have to do is post on the One Land (Basicaly, announce your characters presence, what he looks like, etc.) and then I shall open the gates of the citadel to you!
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 07-02-03, 01:33 AM	Originally posted by Gellion oohhh hiya yep it did, thanks. sorry for the OT post everybody. No worries, my friend! ^_^ Enjoy! :) :cool: :D ;) :angel:
Kevmann 07-02-03, 01:39 AM	As it says only those allowed in by you (which as of now is you and Riggoras) can comment on them. No no no, that is only in the Black Citadel thread, that is a secondary thread of the main one that was started by Grimclaw, just post on that primary thread and then I will put your name on the list to post on the Black Citadel thread. In fact, here is a Link to the main thread of The One Land: THE ONE LAND (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48404)
Riggoras_44 07-02-03, 01:53 AM	You can join the One Land at anytime, the picking of a side is roleplayed, not bureaucratised. So you go in, introduce yourself, and basically can pick a side outright and then join the fray. Or you can wait to be invited and see what is more convenient for your fun and style. Basically the only thing that counts is getting accepted once you get there (or you can start a rogue side, but my boss wouldn't like that). Good luck! And, hey, Origami commando: Humans are the ruling society in the world of DnD, period. The creatures that you mention are not social creatures; true they have such a great power, but they need it to even stand a chance to survive; where are their civilisation? They don't form any social group capable of progress, thus they are hopelessly left behind. As an analogy of real life, you can think of the hunted predators such as bears, lions, sharks, etc. that don't have natural predators but are still killed by men. The same thing is true of undead and dragons, they are restlessly hunted by adventuring parties all over the world. And yes, human societies have developped economies capable to be exploitable by individuals way back since the clasical age. It becomes more remarcable in the industrial age where merchants become the dominant class of society, but greedy merchants have existed even before writing. It's in our nature, nonetheless! Merchants lived back in that time even when they risked their necks just to make some coins, and they would undoubtely exist even in a world assailed by undead, monsters, dragons, or demons, your pick. Your last statement, that people live in cities because they like humans, is a little naive (purportedly so?). It's like saying that rats and vermin infest our houses because they like us. No society in history has ever worked like that! We all know what is that rats want from us, right? To make a profit!
OrigamiCommando 07-03-03, 11:23 AM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 And yes, human societies have developped economies capable to be exploitable by individuals way back since the clasical age. It becomes more remarcable in the industrial age where merchants become the dominant class of society, but greedy merchants have existed even before writing. It's in our nature, nonetheless! Merchants lived back in that time even when they risked their necks just to make some coins, and they would undoubtely exist even in a world assailed by undead, monsters, dragons, or demons, your pick. Your last statement, that people live in cities because they like humans, is a little naive (purportedly so?). It's like saying that rats and vermin infest our houses because they like us. No society in history has ever worked like that! We all know what is that rats want from us, right? To make a profit! Though I will concur that a lust for power can quickly turn someone evil, by D&D standards, I will have to disagree on the idea that greed is evil, by D&D standards. Many dwarves are known to succumb to greed, as they love things made of precious metals and fine artwork, but the dwarven alignment is Lawful with strong tendancy towards Good. I concur that merchants would ESPECIALLY exist in a world of myth, liches, dragons, nymphs, gnolls, and all other beasties that creep through the wilderness. I'll bet weapon and armor salesmen make all the dough in such dangerous times and this doesn't make them greedy, it makes them smart. Supply and demand, kind of like adventurers. Heh, as for the statement that people hang out with humans because they like us, I pulled that directly from the PHB Page 13 of the PHB, under relations: "Just as readily as they mix with eachother, humans mix with members of other races. Among the other races, humans are known as 'everyone's second-best friends.' They serve as ambassadors, diplomats, magistrates, merchents, and functionalities of all kinds" And why wouldn't we? These aren't races vastly different from our own. Each race is basically just certain human trait extrapolated into its own race. Kind of like Winnie the Pooh. Halflings are the care-free, independent children in all of us, Gnomes are the creative ingenuity that drives us to create and the nature of laughter and joking, Elves are the older sophisticate and the young, good hearted rebel in combination, Dwarves are the crude, conservative yet disciplined and hard working aspects, and Orcs are all those things we probably wish we weren't so much in real life: xenophobic and violent towards others and eachother. Winnie the Pooh is an odd comparison, but these characters all exemplify personality quirks of the human condition: Eore being hopelessness and dependence on others, Piglet being timidness and respect, Rabbit is the up front and straight, no BS confidence, Mole is the work ethic, Owl the wisdom, Tigger the combination of self amusement and amusing those around you, and Winnie the Pooh simply is: perfectly neutral, unwavering, unswerving in devotion to hunny and, moreover, his friends. A Winnie the Pooh analogy... Yes sir, my argument is quickly going down the toilet :embarrass
Riggoras_44 07-03-03, 11:44 AM	No, no, I actually think Winnie the Pooh is a perfect logic and it just opened my mind... to... Nirvana! Wow, *bright light*, could you have guessed that there is a perfect dimension where only Blizzard manufactures T-Shirts? EDIT: The PHB says that Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, and Halflings associate with humans because they LIKE them? Oh so naive, WoTC :rolleyes:
Gellion 07-04-03, 04:03 AM	Should we make some Human only PrC's?
Kevmann 07-04-03, 05:09 AM	Interesting idea, Gellion, but what would constitute a human only prc?
Gellion 07-04-03, 05:51 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann Interesting idea, Gellion, but what would constitute a human only prc? I dont know.:sad:
drachentoeter 07-04-03, 08:33 AM	quote:In the world of D&D, humans are not at the top of the food chain. This is not true. Here in the real world, we have creatures that are vastly larger, stronger, and faster then we are, and we win out on all of them. In D&D we have two things going for us, adaptability and numbers. I belive that humans ARE at the top of the food chain. Dragons are seen as better then humans, but they go out every once and a while to eat some and destroy some. But they are constantly hounded by dragon-hunters seeking there treasure, no matter how powerful a creature is, there a a load of humans more powerful then it. Yep, just like insects win out on humans. Going by your logic they're at the top of the foodchain. As a matter of fact only the colored dragons go out to eat and destroy some, while the chromatic ones go out and help the humans (and others) stay alive. And last time I checked other races than humans had powerfull armies too. In the D&D world they haven't even managed to defeat those other races. And when it comes to numbers, don't forget the reoccuring waves of orcish invasions. Usually the humans team up with other races to beat them back untill a couple of decades later they come back with a new massive army.
Riggoras_44 07-04-03, 12:48 PM	Who says insects don't have the upper hand? There are 200.000 of those little bastards for every human on Earth. Do you think you could ever kill 200.000 insects in your whole life? Not unless you're dedicated to it. On the other hand, they are weak, and they don't have much beyond instinctive intelligence. As you may have noticed, the races discused on this issue are ALL intelligent. Dragons, vampires, etc. And last time I checked other races than humans had powerfull armies too. In the D&D world they haven't even managed to defeat those other races. This is interesting. But numbers and demographics are on our side. Want to bet how long those other races would last in an industrial age?:devil: Last, well we have the Orcish invasions. I like to think of those as Lemming mass suicide with collateral damage. A race that uses this ressource when there is an overabundance among their numbers will *never* proliferate. Humans will rule!
Orcy The Green Wonder 07-04-03, 01:06 PM	Orcs + Good leader = humans screwed Of course, there arent an abundance of good leaders in the orcish tribes. If you want an example look at Warcraft, I know its a different game but the orcs are basically the same. The alliance of elves, dwarves, and humans couldnt stop the horde with their great leaders. Once again, its a different game but I'd wager with intelligent leaders and magics the Orcs could take out the humans.
drachentoeter 07-04-03, 02:14 PM	Who says insects don't have the upper hand? There are 200.000 of those little bastards for every human on Earth. Do you think you could ever kill 200.000 insects in your whole life? Not unless you're dedicated to it. My post was a reply to Kevman's post, that said humans are on top of the food chain. It did allready say that by this logic insects are. I'm well aware, as probably is everybodv else, that you can not kill enough insects to threaten their existence. That was the whole point in a nutshell. On the other hand, they are weak, and they don't have much beyond instinctive intelligence. As you may have noticed, the races discused on this issue are ALL intelligent. Dragons, vampires, etc. Thank you Dick Tracy. I must have missed that when I started my tread on the common tick as a race for PC. By the way just yesterday I heard this discussion between two big Reds (not the chewing gum ;) ) : " On the other hand, they are weak and they don't have much beyond instinctive intelligence." Now guess who they were talking about. This is interesting. But numbers and demographics are on our side. Want to bet how long those other races would last in an industrial age? Yep, I'd sure like to bet on that one. I'd say after Gnomish Business Machines (GBM) and Billy Gatecrusher's Microdwarf (MD) teamed up, they decided to keep the orcish race for the physically strenous work and the elves for art & entertainment. The now obsolete humans found nice places in zoos around the world. just kidding, but what numbers and demographics have proved which point of yours and who is deciding the winner on that one? Me, you or should we write a letter to Hasbro? Last, well we have the Orcish invasions. I like to think of those as Lemming mass suicide with collateral damage. A race that uses this ressource when there is an overabundance among their numbers will *never* proliferate. That's exactly the ressource that set of the crusades and the conquestadores. Thank God a race like that will *never* proliferate. If you like you can also take a look at the old greeks and the romans. The greeks were way more sophisticated with their philosopy and science(say like the humans). The romans were warlike people who had been fighting their neighbours since day one( say like the orcs). Well eventualy they kicked the helenistic a**** and just started copying the greek stuff. Later their empire caved in under the neverending flood of tribes coming down from the north, ummm kinda like lemmings.
Riggoras_44 07-04-03, 02:48 PM	Oh no! Not Warcraft! You know the implications of this? :eek: *Flashbacks of endless Multiplayer games where Orcs and Humans whack each other, never achieving a relevant or long-lasting result.*
Gellion 07-04-03, 03:25 PM	*Has a feeling this is going to turn into a Humans suck because in the real world they did this and this thread*
OrigamiCommando 07-04-03, 04:51 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Should we make some Human only PrC's? Sure. I had one awhile back. Diplomat of Legend. Wasn't exactly a good adventuring class, but I'll post it. Diplomat of Legend ------------------------- Humans have always been considered the neutral party between the races. Their extremely short lives also generally mean short lived ideals and short lived ambitions. But in this torrent of emotion and dying, there exists people who rise up and away from their human bretheren, using this trust to try and create peace between the races. They act as go betweens between dwarves and giants, elves and orcs, and gnomes and kobolds. In their hands, they manipulate war and peace, life and death, all with words that strike more true than any blade or bow could do. ------------------ Requirements ------------------ Race: Human Alignment: Any Good Diplomacy 12 ranks Bluff 10 ranks Innuendo 10 ranks Sense Motive 10 ranks Knowledge (Local) OR Knowledge (Royalty & Nobility) 8 ranks Special: Acceptance in the Guild of Universal Peace: a human group who uses the races trust in the fledgling humanity to attempt world and, perhaps, interplanar peace. -------------------- BAB: Same as Lore Masters Saves: Same as Lore Masters Skill Set: Same as Rogues Skills: 4 + Intelligence Modifier --------------------- 1 - Quick Learner, Diplomatic Immunity 2 - Second Nature 3 - Peacekeeper 4 - Second Nature 5 - Honey Tongue 6 - Second Nature 7 - Strange Diplomacy 8 - Second Nature 9 - Strange Diplomacy 10 - Linguist, Universal Recognition ----------------------- Quick Learner: The DoL's intensive, unceasing study of the world around him means he knows, or can easily find out, about almost anything one could ask him. From now on, all Knowledge skill checks can be made, regardless of whether or not the DoL has ranks in that particular knowledge skill or not and they are all made at a +2 bonus. Diplomatic Immunity: The DoL gains a status of immunity from some of the more feral or dishonorable races. Though this causes no bonus to AC or anything overt, all semi-intelligent races realize that the Guild of Universal Peace has contacts throughout the planes and that openly attacking a member, unprovoked, could mean sanctions or worse. This is not to say it never happens, but most races, even the evil ones, realize that such an action would not be worth the trouble. There are situations that a DoL could find this protection revoked. - Being kicked out of the Guild of Universal Peace - Performing any action that is considered illegal in the current area - Being caught in the act of lying, cheating, stealing, or any evil act around or towards a race that the Guild is currently having relations with or acting in direct opposition to the rules of the Guild in any way. - Loss of control of mind or body through psionic, chemical, magical, psychological, or biological processes of ones self that present a clear danger to the race in question. Once Diplomatic Immunity is revoked, generally by a court of 13 peers from the Guild following arrest, the DoL may not progress in levels any farther in this Prestige Class and depending on his crime, maybe executed. Second Nature: Many of the Guild's Diplomats study intensely in the mannerisms and the ways of races outside of humanity. Whenever they gain the ability Second Nature they may choose 3 + Wisdom Modifier races to have already studied prior to gaining this ability. The DoL learns to be more like the race in question, putting themselves in the shoes of the race they study. It becomes like second nature to them. In order for any of the DoL's class abilities to work on an intelligent creature, he must choose it's base race using this ability. All Humanoids are already covered by all of the diplomats class abilities. As a bonus, he also learns all languages spoken by the race he is studying automatically when he chooses them. Members from the following races maybe chosen when selecting Second Nature: Monsterous Humanoids (Goblins, Gnolls, Harpies, Etc) Fey (Pixies, Nixies, Red Hats, Etc) Dragons (Blue Dragons, Red Dragons, Gold Dragons, Etc) Races who have subtypes, require that the diplomat chooses one of the different subtypes such as Silver Dragon. Only creatures whose basic intellect is 6 or higher maybe chosen by the DoL. If a race specifically states in the text in the Monsters Manual that it likes to eat humans or humanoids, dislikes humans, or something to that effect (such as the centaurs) the DoL has to take that race twice with Second Nature, instead of just once like everyone else. Peace Keeper: The DoL has become well attuned to calming down hot tempers and preventing the escalation of anger to bloodshed. The diplomat is now able to use diplomacy checks against foes in combat who understand what he is saying in order to raise their NPC reaction to him as listed in the core books and prevent combat. Honey Tongue: The DoL has learned that a quick wit and an intelligent word carry alot more wait when used in conjuction with a charming personality. From now on he may add his Intelligence modifier to his Diplomacy, Bluff, and Innuendo checks. Strange Diplomacy: The DoL has gotten to a point where he can speak with and for creatures most usually wouldn't consider civilized or worth speaking to. He may choose 3 + wisdom modifer races from the categories below. This is much like the second nature ability except the diplomat chooses from the following races instead: Abberations (Beholders, Aboleths, Etc) Magical Beasts (Sphinx, Talking Animals, Etc) Elementals (Fire Elementals, Wind Elementals, Etc) Outsiders (Celestials, Devils, Etc) Races who have subtypes, such as Devils, require that the diplomat chooses one of the different subtypes. Only creatures whose basic intellect is 6 or higher maybe chosen by the DoL. If a race specifically states in the text in the Monsters Manual that it likes to eat humans or humanoids, dislikes humans, or something to that effect (such as the beholders) the DoL has to take that race twice with Strange Diplomacy, instead of just once like everyone else. Warning: Certain types of creatures, such as Slaad, may not recognize the guilds authority in the planes. Which races recognize this authority or don't is up to the DM but the diplomat should be warned before hand that if he wishes to work with these races, he will do so without the protection of Diplomatic Immunity and should use caution. Linguist: The diplomats study of all the different races has placed him among the greatest scholars in his knowledge of the planes and it's many languages. The DoL upon achieving 10th level of the PrC, knows all spoken languages, including that of abberations and other nearly incomprehensible spoken words of all living and unliving things in the planes he has visited. Further, he only has to visit a plane he hasn't been to for at least a week to learn all the languages there. Universal Recognition: With the achievement of this ability, the diplomat is now one of the leaders in relations across the planes among hundreds if not thousands of different species. He may now add his level to all Diplomacy, Knowledge, and Innuendo checks concerning any and all the races he chose using the Second Nature and Strange Diplomacy abilities..
OrigamiCommando 07-04-03, 04:53 PM	Originally posted by Orcy The Green Wonder Orcs + Good leader = humans screwed Of course, there arent an abundance of good leaders in the orcish tribes. If you want an example look at Warcraft, I know its a different game but the orcs are basically the same. The alliance of elves, dwarves, and humans couldnt stop the horde with their great leaders. Once again, its a different game but I'd wager with intelligent leaders and magics the Orcs could take out the humans. Heh, the orcs could take out anybody if they put their many strengths to work on it. If they joined with the kobolds... An invincible force of nature.
OrigamiCommando 07-04-03, 05:18 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 This is interesting. But numbers and demographics are on our side. Want to bet how long those other races would last in an industrial age?:devil: I agree with you on most all points but this. Unlike our world, an industrial age would have a hell of a time becoming popular in the D&D world for a hand full of reasons. First, the druids. The start of our industrial age was awfully nasty and laced with pollution. Something, I doubt, most druids would appreciate very much. And unlike hippies, druids wield actual power in the world. Second, the gods. Ehlonna and Ol' Vegitable Face, Boccab, are actual gods. Not just false entities that grant no power in their own name, but they are actual, power wielding gods in the D&D universe. I doubt our industrial age of soot covere, clear cut forests, and chokingly toxic smog would have went as smoothly if there were people in this world and entities in this universe who wielded the power of gods who are really there and were kind of miffed about the destruction. Also, orcs would really be alot better if they'd orginize, your right, but whatcha gonna do? Doesn't make me like them any less. :)
Riggoras_44 07-04-03, 05:50 PM	The industrial revolution had its enemies too, you know... But in DnD, the fight over whether to progress or to devolve could turn out really violent. What if industry could rally some gods and wizards to its cause, for example? That would be quite the catfight!
DeepwoodElvenArcher 07-04-03, 06:03 PM	Originally posted by Orcy The Green Wonder Orcs + Good leader = humans screwed Of coruse that goes for elves, dwarves, halflings and gnomes alike. I mean, heck, if the kobold got a stronger enough leader, they coulod cut apart the humans....A REALLY powerful leader, mind you. ;)
Gellion 07-05-03, 12:46 AM	Originally posted by DeepwoodElvenArcher Of coruse that goes for elves, dwarves, halflings and gnomes alike. I mean, heck, if the kobold got a stronger enough leader, they coulod cut apart the humans....A REALLY powerful leader, mind you. ;) Silence Deepwood. We do not make fun of your race(Ok some of us do:) ), but please i would like to keep the conversation civil.
Kevmann 07-05-03, 02:02 AM	Guys!!! OrigamiCommando posted a human only prc, it is only polite to read it over and review it. Here is my review: The first problem I see with the class is combat. There is an unsaid rule in D&D, 10 level prcs always have combat abilities, 5 level and less prestege classes are the only ones allowed not to have any combat abilities! So to counter this, I think these changes should be made to the class: 1. Give it a clerics BAB 2. Give them a d8 hit die 3. Bring down the diplomacy requirement to 10 ranks (so the class can be taken at 7th level) 4. Reduce the Innuendo, sense motive, and knowledge skills to 5 (because they are cross-class for most classes) 5. Give them +1 exsisting spellcasting class every other level starting on 2 (basically half). I see alot of these guys needing magic to teleport/fight their way out of situations they can not cool down with diplomacy. 6. Change alignment to any non-evil, neutral people should be able to take this class to, I mean they are NEUTRAL, which normaly means they can be better unbiased peacekeepers. 7. On some of your abilities such as second nature, I think you should use the new rules for favored enemy. They get to choose a few types of creatures (such as outsider, undead, etc.) and they can use the abilities on all creatures under that type. Also, choosing subtypes (like pit-fiend instead of devil) is just way to restrictive to say the least. At the very least, take away that they have to choose subtypes of a creature (if they say devil, allow it to be for all devils). 8. The skills suck, use bards list instead, and I highly recomend that you go throught he bards list and create its own list! EDIT: Oh, and I would give them 6+ int modifier skills, since most classes are going up two. Make these changes, and I think we have a well balanced class!
Riggoras_44 07-05-03, 02:28 AM	Humans united + NeoHitler = Every other race going up the chimney of a concentration camp. This is a game that can be played by everyone. But we're not seeing any race being completely united under one leader, and much less humanity united under a NeoHitler (Ok, so we have humanity united under Kevmann but that is in our RPing post). This is somewhat nonsensical. :rolleyes: On a more interesting matter, the Humans finally got their own PrC! This is something to party about!
Kevmann 07-05-03, 02:38 AM	I would like to say that I stated that humans are the top of the power chain in D&D for two reasons. First, we make up more then 3/4s of the population of the civilized world. This has mulipul meanings, it means that we have numbers, we have access to the best tecnologies availiable, we have easy access to vast amounts of education and knowledge, and it means that we have some superiority over the other races that make up much less of the population. Second, we are smart and powerful. Dragons, on the base, are more powerful the a commoner human, But for every ancient worm dragon there are a hundred humans more powerful then it. That goes for everything, because humans, like the other main races, have the most powerful persons in the world (people like Elminster, etc.). There is no way to deny these points, it is obvious that the era of humanity is upon the world, our supperiourity is spread among the world. And just because humans are ambitious, does not mean that we are evil. Because for every "evil" leader that comes along there is another "good" one somewere else that comes along. Humans are a very diverse people, and for the most part gravitate tword neutrality.
Rafilar Irithyl 07-05-03, 09:17 PM	Originally posted by OrigamiCommando Second, the gods. Ehlonna and Ol' Vegitable Face, Boccab, are actual gods. Not just false entities that grant no power in their own name, but they are actual, power wielding gods in the D&D universe. I doubt our industrial age of soot covere, clear cut forests, and chokingly toxic smog would have went as smoothly if there were people in this world and entities in this universe who wielded the power of gods who are really there and were kind of miffed about the destruction. Ol'Vegitable Face is Obad-Hai. Boccob is Ol'Shiny Robe, they gawd of magic. He wouldn't like an industrial revolution eithe,r but he doesn't care enough about anything to object.
Rafilar Irithyl 07-05-03, 09:21 PM	Kevmann told me that the tribal humans discussion got moved over here, so I'm reposting my question from there here. I have to ask, with Intuit Direction being subsumed into Survival in 3.5, should the bonus to Intuit Direction become a bonus to Survival, or is that just way too powerful?
Riggoras_44 07-06-03, 02:14 AM	That is troubling news. We could put the tribal bonus into survival first of all, and then: a) decrease the tribal bonus to the skill (to +2?). b) wait and see how it turns. However, I don't believe taking away the tribal skill bonuses isn't a good idea, because even if the skill list is reduced in v 3.5, the skill point bonus/level common humans receive is NOT reduced, and Tribal humans shouldn't stay behind.
Rafilar Irithyl 07-06-03, 02:12 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 That is troubling news. We could put the tribal bonus into survival first of all, and then: a) decrease the tribal bonus to the skill (to +2?). b) wait and see how it turns. However, I don't believe taking away the tribal skill bonuses isn't a good idea, because even if the skill list is reduced in v 3.5, the skill point bonus/level common humans receive is NOT reduced, and Tribal humans shouldn't stay behind. I agree that some type of bonus is necessary. Perhaps, a +2 racial bonus to Survival checks, and a +4 racial bonus to Survival checks when made to Intuit Direction (with a note reiterating that this overlaps [does not stack] with the normal +2 bonus to Survival checks, because they're both racial bonuses). The little rise for Intuit Direction is probably balanced because Intuit Direction is pretty much worthless. How does that sound to everyone?:behold:
Kevmann 07-06-03, 06:53 PM	I think they should just get a +4 bonus to survival. Because that is the whole point of a tribal human, they have had to survive the worst conditions to make it were they are.
Gellion 07-07-03, 12:50 PM	Humans The REAL Ultimate Power
OrigamiCommando 07-07-03, 01:08 PM	Obad Hai, Boccob... Deep down, they are all just creepy looking, old men. Especially Boccob; did you see his picture in the Deities and Demigods? He even has that creepy, old-guy-making-a-pass-at-you look on his face. Thanks for the correction though.
Kevmann 07-07-03, 02:38 PM	Originally posted by Kevmann Guys!!! OrigamiCommando posted a human only prc, it is only polite to read it over and review it. Here is my review: The first problem I see with the class is combat. There is an unsaid rule in D&D, 10 level prcs always have combat abilities, 5 level and less prestege classes are the only ones allowed not to have any combat abilities! So to counter this, I think these changes should be made to the class: 1. Give it a clerics BAB 2. Give them a d8 hit die 3. Bring down the diplomacy requirement to 10 ranks (so the class can be taken at 7th level) 4. Reduce the Innuendo, sense motive, and knowledge skills to 5 (because they are cross-class for most classes) 5. Give them +1 exsisting spellcasting class every other level starting on 2 (basically half). I see alot of these guys needing magic to teleport/fight their way out of situations they can not cool down with diplomacy. 6. Change alignment to any non-evil, neutral people should be able to take this class to, I mean they are NEUTRAL, which normaly means they can be better unbiased peacekeepers. 7. On some of your abilities such as second nature, I think you should use the new rules for favored enemy. They get to choose a few types of creatures (such as outsider, undead, etc.) and they can use the abilities on all creatures under that type. Also, choosing subtypes (like pit-fiend instead of devil) is just way to restrictive to say the least. At the very least, take away that they have to choose subtypes of a creature (if they say devil, allow it to be for all devils). 8. The skills suck, use bards list instead, and I highly recomend that you go throught he bards list and create its own list! EDIT: Oh, and I would give them 6+ int modifier skills, since most classes are going up two. Make these changes, and I think we have a well balanced class! So what do you think of my review OrigamiCommando?
The Gray 07-07-03, 06:41 PM	I liked the PrC, though I don't have much to add beyond what Kevmann already said. Let the Diplomats bring about the Rise of the Feat!
Gellion 07-08-03, 12:54 PM	I liked the PrC.:)
re1oaded 07-08-03, 11:58 PM	Count me in it. I have a Master samurai, if you wanted to know.
Kevmann 07-09-03, 12:05 AM	re1oaded, you are member #009, welcome to the human foundation, feel free to look around and post your ideas about the two topics currently in circulation. There is new rules over human tribes, And a new human-only prc called the peace-maker, There is also a debate about the nature of evil in men. Have fun!
Gellion 07-09-03, 12:25 AM	Humans:The only race with unlimited potential
Gellion 07-09-03, 06:42 PM	Bump, For the might of the Humans.:)
The Gray 07-10-03, 03:33 AM	Hey Gellion, we have nearly the same sig! Hey everybody, I haven't contributed much to this thread! HOOOWEEEE! :D
Gellion 07-10-03, 06:24 AM	Humans=:)
Kevmann 07-10-03, 10:11 AM	Ok, what else can we do on the human threads? 1. Everyone post human only threads! 2. Everyone post their human characters and describe them. 3. Discuss the race of humans in general. Whether it be game mechanics or roleplaying!
Silmarien Aldalome 07-10-03, 10:28 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann Ok, what else can we do on the human threads? 1. Everyone post human only threads! 2. Everyone post their human characters and describe them. 3. Discuss the race of humans in general. Whether it be game mechanics or roleplaying! As well as 1 - 3, ...I suggest you 4. start working on existential matters - the role of Humanity in the World's Unfolding. e.g. In LOTR mythology, Humans are not 'bound' to the fate of the Earth like the Elves are. This rendering of divergence between Elves and Men, has been interpreted in manifold ways. Some say that this leaves Humans with Free Will. Others say that this renders humans with an exquisite vulnerability to being 'spoken to' by the Dark Lord from The Void. Morgoth was expelled at the End of the First Age, through the Doors of Night, into the Void and Chained with the Angainor. But, some mystics claim that Morgoth speaks to Humans - or that Humans are particularly vulnerable to the Dark Lord's Voice *because* of their Free Will.... 5. Human Artifacts. My belief is that Artifacts have a 'beat' and some lean to Men, and others to Elves, Dwarves of whatever....so what would a *human* artifact look like. 6. I'd like to discuss the 'short-lived' nature of Humans. Why is this so? Cheers Silmarien
Gellion 07-10-03, 11:05 AM	We may be short lived, but we live our lives to the fullest.:) And magic can always help with our "short-lived" aspect.;) But i reside in The Dreamlands, where even after you die in the waking world, you can still go on adventures in the Dreamlands.:)
Gellion 07-10-03, 11:10 AM	And as i said earlier i believe Humans to be the race with the greatest potential. Not that Half-Elves dont have plenty of potential too.;)
Gellion 07-11-03, 04:17 PM	So my fellow kinsmen, what have you all been up too?:)
OrigamiCommando 07-11-03, 06:37 PM	To all who reviewed my PrC. I shall compare it to the basic elf and dwarf PrC and make changes accordingly, using edit when I have time. Or perhaps reply. Either way, you have been heard and respected. :) Silmarian: I guess, one could say, that humans live such a short time because our cellular mitosis is much much faster than that of the other races. We mature faster and everything. It's how I would explain it, anyways.
Gellion 07-11-03, 08:35 PM	Yep, we learn stuff faster than the other races.:)
drachentoeter 07-11-03, 10:22 PM	The ability to learn is linked directly to the intelligence attribute, so no you don't. And even if you linked it to the lifespan of a race the halforc would come in first.
Gellion 07-11-03, 10:30 PM	Your right, what i really meant was that most Humans live fuller lifes than most elves do. Or they at least try to.
Silmarien Aldalome 07-11-03, 10:33 PM	Originally posted by Gellion And as i said earlier i believe Humans to be the race with the greatest potential. Not that Half-Elves dont have plenty of potential too.;) Yes - in my reading of Lore. Nice to meet you Gellion. Kev - i wanna sign up for the Human Foundation......do you accept Half-Elves at your table...?? :bow: And - I have some crucial information for the Dark-Lord's Eyes only, that I don't want others to see....Do you Have Magic of Faerun in your library...????? e-mail: silmarienaldalome@yahoo.com and i will send you vital data.... and, if you have concerns about rulings, let me know in that e-mail, so that we can address it...(in the Future-Emergent Narrative) ;) best to you my friend..... silmarien
Kevmann 07-11-03, 11:28 PM	Of course Sil, anyone with a deep seated love and respect for humans can join. But remember this is not a half-elf thread, and you can only join if you do so for love of humanity. Still want to join?
Silmarien Aldalome 07-12-03, 03:27 AM	While I am Here - on This Thread - I serve Humanity's Need. ...for I am also Human in This Being. Therefore, BE BORN my love for Humanity - OoC: Sil has taken a bit longer than is the wont (w-o-n-t) of a Half-Elf to discover her love for Humans. ....therefore, All Lore that I poor Forth in these Lands - is for YOUR benefit, and for Humanity's Needs....Great is such a day when the Human Heart extends itself to allow the Presence of the Peredhil Here... :bow: :bow: OoC: translated, means - I want to work with you and Thread Members to Develop kick-as_s human stuff...now....in TRUTH - my hopes are that the Humans will use this Lore at the OneLand.... I.e., these threads for developing Human Constructs, and OneLand for playing them out.... I am Humbled - may mine Gifts benefit Human Kind - for that is also how mine Spirit Burns -
Kevmann 07-12-03, 12:59 PM	Very well then, Silmarien Aldalome, you are now member #010 Thanks for joining!
Silmarien Aldalome 07-12-03, 01:24 PM	Originally posted by Kevmann Very well then, Silmarien Aldalome, you are now member #010 Thanks for joining! I am Honoured to be Counted Amongst Humans! :bow: Check out my revised signature - for all to see - proudly - and in OoC Truth Mode. I have some items that I would love to explore and develop here at the Human Foundation... 1. The Free Will that comes with Human Lore - that gives them so much fantastic freedoms. My reading of D&D Lore is that Humans' Free Will differs from the Free Will of Elves and Dwarves - at the level of Fate - or in Purpose, Scope? What are the best words to describe this human strength? And how can it be role-played to Humanity's Advantage? 2. The Tribes - i've thought of another dimension that intersects with the Tribe construct - - evolutionary streams: For humans - in terms of 'evolutionary streams' A. some have gotta have SCENT (as an example)...so bodily 'plurimorphism' in Humanity....emphases in certain bodily features and functions... and the Mental adjunct to this.... B. their Lore would be very diverse, and more diverse than other races....this has ramifications for Magik, Divination, Abjuration..... but, how? How does human evolutionary lore of Mental function give them advantage. How can this advantage be Role-Played out in D&D universes? Cheers Silmarien
OrigamiCommando 07-13-03, 08:23 PM	Diplomat of Legend ------------------------- Humans have always been considered the neutral party between the races. Their extremely short lives also generally mean short lived ideals and short lived ambitions. But in this torrent of emotion and dying, there exists people who rise up and away from their human bretheren, using this trust to try and create peace between the races. They act as go betweens between dwarves and giants, elves and orcs, and gnomes and kobolds. In their hands, they manipulate war and peace, life and death, all with words that strike more true than any blade or bow could do. ------------------ Requirements ------------------ Race: Human Alignment: Any Non-Evil Diplomacy 10 ranks Bluff 10 ranks Innuendo 5 ranks Sense Motive 5 ranks Knowledge (Local) OR Knowledge (Royalty & Nobility) 4 ranks Special: Acceptance in the Guild of Universal Peace: a human group who uses the races trust in the fledgling humanity to attempt world and, perhaps, interplanar peace. -------------------- Hit Dice: D6 Weapon & Armor Profficiencies: All simple weapons and all light and medium armor. Additionally, every level after level 1, the DoL gains either an exotic or martial weapon profficiency for free, so long that it is a martial or exotic weapon used by one of the races he is currently accepted by through the Second Nature or Strange Diplomacy abilities BAB: Same as Clerics Saves: Same as Lore Masters Skill Set: Same as Rogues Skills: 6 + Intelligence Modifier --------------------- 1 - Quick Learner, Diplomatic Immunity 2 - Second Nature 3 - Peacekeeper 4 - Second Nature 5 - Honey Tongue 6 - Second Nature 7 - Strange Diplomacy 8 - Second Nature 9 - Strange Diplomacy 10 - Linguist, Universal Recognition ----------------------- Quick Learner: The DoL's intensive, unceasing study of the world around him means he knows, or can easily find out, about almost anything one could ask him. From now on, all Knowledge skill checks can be made, regardless of whether or not the DoL has ranks in that particular knowledge skill or not and they are all made at a +2 bonus. Diplomatic Immunity: The DoL gains a status of immunity from some of the more feral or dishonorable races. Though this causes no bonus to AC or anything overt, all semi-intelligent races realize that the Guild of Universal Peace has contacts throughout the planes and that openly attacking a member, unprovoked, could mean sanctions or worse. This is not to say it never happens, but most races, even the evil ones, realize that such an action would not be worth the trouble. There are situations that a DoL could find this protection revoked. - Being kicked out of the Guild of Universal Peace - Performing any action that is considered illegal in the current area - Being caught in the act of lying, cheating, stealing, or any evil act around or towards a race that the Guild is currently having relations with or acting in direct opposition to the rules of the Guild in any way. - Loss of control of mind or body through psionic, chemical, magical, psychological, or biological processes of ones self that present a clear danger to the race in question. Once Diplomatic Immunity is revoked, generally by a court of 13 peers from the Guild following arrest, the DoL may not progress in levels any farther in this Prestige Class and depending on his crime, maybe executed. Second Nature: Many of the Guild's Diplomats study intensely in the mannerisms and the ways of races outside of humanity. Whenever they gain the ability Second Nature they may choose 5 + Charisma Modifier races to have already studied prior to gaining this ability. The DoL learns to be more like the race in question, putting themselves in the shoes of the race they study. It becomes like second nature to them. In order for any of the DoL's class abilities to work on an intelligent creature, he must choose it's base race using this ability. All Humanoids are already covered by all of the diplomats class abilities. As a bonus, he also learns all languages spoken by the race he is studying automatically when he chooses them. Members from the following races maybe chosen when selecting Second Nature: Monsterous Humanoids (Goblins, Gnolls, Harpies, Etc) Fey (Pixies, Nixies, Red Hats, Etc) Dragons (Blue Dragons, Red Dragons, Gold Dragons, Etc) Races who have subtypes, require that the diplomat chooses one of the different subtypes such as Silver Dragon. Only creatures whose basic intellect is 6 or higher maybe chosen by the DoL. If a race specifically states in the text in the Monsters Manual that it likes to eat humans or humanoids, dislikes humans, or something to that effect (such as the centaurs) the DoL has to take that race twice with Second Nature, instead of just once like everyone else. Peace Keeper: The DoL has become well attuned to calming down hot tempers and preventing the escalation of anger to bloodshed. The diplomat is now able to use diplomacy checks against foes in combat who understand what he is saying in order to raise their NPC reaction to him as listed in the core books and prevent combat. Honey Tongue: The DoL has learned that a quick wit and an intelligent word carry alot more wait when used in conjuction with a charming personality. From now on he may add his Intelligence modifier to his Diplomacy, Bluff, and Innuendo checks. Strange Diplomacy: The DoL has gotten to a point where he can speak with and for creatures most usually wouldn't consider civilized or worth speaking to. He may choose 5 + wisdom modifer races from the categories below. This is much like the second nature ability except the diplomat chooses from the following races instead: Abberations (Beholders, Aboleths, Etc) Magical Beasts (Sphinx, Talking Animals, Etc) Elementals (Fire Elementals, Wind Elementals, Etc) Outsiders (Celestials, Devils, Etc) Races who have subtypes, such as Devils, require that the diplomat chooses one of the different subtypes. Only creatures whose basic intellect is 6 or higher maybe chosen by the DoL. If a race specifically states in the text in the Monsters Manual that it likes to eat humans or humanoids, dislikes humans, or something to that effect (such as the beholders) the DoL has to take that race twice with Strange Diplomacy, instead of just once like everyone else. Warning: Certain types of creatures, such as Slaad, may not recognize the guilds authority in the planes. Which races recognize this authority or don't is up to the DM but the diplomat should be warned before hand that if he wishes to work with these races, he will do so without the protection of Diplomatic Immunity and should use caution. Linguist: The diplomats study of all the different races has placed him among the greatest scholars in his knowledge of the planes and it's many languages. The DoL upon achieving 10th level of the PrC, knows all spoken languages, including that of abberations and other nearly incomprehensible spoken words of all living and unliving things in the planes he has visited. Further, he only has to visit a plane he hasn't been to for at least a week to learn all the languages there. Universal Recognition: With the achievement of this ability, the diplomat is now one of the leaders in relations across the planes among hundreds if not thousands of different species. He may now add his level to all Diplomacy, Knowledge, and Innuendo checks concerning any and all sentient creatures who know of the Guild. EDIT: I have added their HD and weapon/armor information. I changed the last ability slightly and gave them the option of gaining weopons feats evey level in order to be somewhat useful in combat. I have also increased their skill points. I did not change Second Nature or Strange Diplomacy, except for increasing how many races they can choose, as Diplomacy is slightly different from simply learning how to kill another race, and one race from a species type maybe vastly different in what it considers good manners from another species. Nymphs live vastly different lives from Fauns and Centaus are much different from Bugbears, despite their weak points being in pretty much the same spot. I have kept their skill list as that of a rogues, because joining the Guild requires the learning of several different skills that may aid in diplomacy as well as skills for preserving oneself when diplomacy goes pear shaped. The rogues skills fit this perfectly.
Silmarien Aldalome 07-14-03, 12:54 AM	Originally posted by OrigamiCommando Diplomat of Legend ------------------------- Humans have always been considered the neutral party between the races. Their extremely short lives also generally mean short lived ideals and short lived ambitions. But in this torrent of emotion and dying, there exists people who rise up and away from their human bretheren, using this trust to try and create peace between the races. They act as go betweens between dwarves and giants, elves and orcs, and gnomes and kobolds. In their hands, they manipulate war and peace, life and death, all with words that strike more true than any blade or bow could do. *Trust* is a great concept to build into Human races. This fusion of a basic social commodity (a bit scarce in the Human World) together with Diplomatic leanings makes this a really interesting class. The 'neutral' aspects may generate tensions at particular contexts. For example, Swiss neutrality in WWII is still catching up with them to this day. ------------------ Requirements ------------------ Race: Human Alignment: Any Non-Evil Diplomacy 10 ranks Bluff 10 ranks Innuendo 5 ranks Sense Motive 5 ranks Knowledge (Local) OR Knowledge (Royalty & Nobility) 4 ranks Special: Acceptance in the Guild of Universal Peace: a human group who uses the races trust in the fledgling humanity to attempt world and, perhaps, interplanar peace. -------------------- Beautiful Hit Dice: D6 Weapon & Armor Profficiencies: All simple weapons and all light and medium armor. Additionally, every level after level 1, the DoL gains either an exotic or martial weapon profficiency for free, so long that it is a martial or exotic weapon used by one of the races he is currently accepted by through the Second Nature or Strange Diplomacy abilities BAB: Same as Clerics Saves: Same as Lore Masters Skill Set: Same as Rogues Skills: 6 + Intelligence Modifier --------------------- Cool - the class remains balanced. 1 - Quick Learner, Diplomatic Immunity 2 - Second Nature 3 - Peacekeeper 4 - Second Nature 5 - Honey Tongue 6 - Second Nature 7 - Strange Diplomacy 8 - Second Nature 9 - Strange Diplomacy 10 - Linguist, Universal Recognition ----------------------- Quick Learner: The DoL's intensive, unceasing study of the world around him means he knows, or can easily find out, about almost anything one could ask him. From now on, all Knowledge skill checks can be made, regardless of whether or not the DoL has ranks in that particular knowledge skill or not and they are all made at a +2 bonus. Sounds great. But, this 'almost anything' is pretty powerful. Where is the 'game balance' aspect for this? Or, alternatively, a 'role-play' limit. E.g. they DON'T just use this skill willy nilly (against the Guild's Will) - NOT for non-guild members, or something like that. After all, giving knowledge to the 'wrong' party upsets balances in negotiations! Diplomatic Immunity: The DoL gains a status of immunity from some of the more feral or dishonorable races. Though this causes no bonus to AC or anything overt, all semi-intelligent races realize that the Guild of Universal Peace has contacts throughout the planes and that openly attacking a member, unprovoked, could mean sanctions or worse. This is not to say it never happens, but most races, even the evil ones, realize that such an action would not be worth the trouble. There are situations that a DoL could find this protection revoked. - Being kicked out of the Guild of Universal Peace - Performing any action that is considered illegal in the current area - Being caught in the act of lying, cheating, stealing, or any evil act around or towards a race that the Guild is currently having relations with or acting in direct opposition to the rules of the Guild in any way. - Loss of control of mind or body through psionic, chemical, magical, psychological, or biological processes of ones self that present a clear danger to the race in question. Once Diplomatic Immunity is revoked, generally by a court of 13 peers from the Guild following arrest, the DoL may not progress in levels any farther in this Prestige Class and depending on his crime, maybe executed. VERY NICE! Second Nature: Many of the Guild's Diplomats study intensely in the mannerisms and the ways of races outside of humanity. Whenever they gain the ability Second Nature they may choose 5 + Charisma Modifier races to have already studied prior to gaining this ability. The DoL learns to be more like the race in question, putting themselves in the shoes of the race they study. It becomes like second nature to them. In order for any of the DoL's class abilities to work on an intelligent creature, he must choose it's base race using this ability. All Humanoids are already covered by all of the diplomats class abilities. As a bonus, he also learns all languages spoken by the race he is studying automatically when he chooses them. Members from the following races maybe chosen when selecting Second Nature: Monsterous Humanoids (Goblins, Gnolls, Harpies, Etc) Fey (Pixies, Nixies, Red Hats, Etc) Dragons (Blue Dragons, Red Dragons, Gold Dragons, Etc) Races who have subtypes, require that the diplomat chooses one of the different subtypes such as Silver Dragon. Only creatures whose basic intellect is 6 or higher maybe chosen by the DoL. If a race specifically states in the text in the Monsters Manual that it likes to eat humans or humanoids, dislikes humans, or something to that effect (such as the centaurs) the DoL has to take that race twice with Second Nature, instead of just once like everyone else. This is ONE SCARY Class. To win such trust, makes a betrayal so much more terrible. This 'becoming' like the race they are attuned to, is a FANTASTIC SUPER FANTASTIC concept. It is balanced by the Limits of the Guild above. They would make great traitors - (with expulsion from guild of course to follow). Peace Keeper: The DoL has become well attuned to calming down hot tempers and preventing the escalation of anger to bloodshed. The diplomat is now able to use diplomacy checks against foes in combat who understand what he is saying in order to raise their NPC reaction to him as listed in the core books and prevent combat. Honey Tongue: The DoL has learned that a quick wit and an intelligent word carry alot more wait when used in conjuction with a charming personality. From now on he may add his Intelligence modifier to his Diplomacy, Bluff, and Innuendo checks. Strange Diplomacy: The DoL has gotten to a point where he can speak with and for creatures most usually wouldn't consider civilized or worth speaking to. He may choose 5 + wisdom modifer races from the categories below. This is much like the second nature ability except the diplomat chooses from the following races instead: Abberations (Beholders, Aboleths, Etc) Magical Beasts (Sphinx, Talking Animals, Etc) Elementals (Fire Elementals, Wind Elementals, Etc) Outsiders (Celestials, Devils, Etc) Races who have subtypes, such as Devils, require that the diplomat chooses one of the different subtypes. Only creatures whose basic intellect is 6 or higher maybe chosen by the DoL. If a race specifically states in the text in the Monsters Manual that it likes to eat humans or humanoids, dislikes humans, or something to that effect (such as the beholders) the DoL has to take that race twice with Strange Diplomacy, instead of just once like everyone else. Warning: Certain types of creatures, such as Slaad, may not recognize the guilds authority in the planes. Which races recognize this authority or don't is up to the DM but the diplomat should be warned before hand that if he wishes to work with these races, he will do so without the protection of Diplomatic Immunity and should use caution. I need to see how this would work in Dice Rolls to give more comment. The 'flavour' is great though. Linguist: The diplomats study of all the different races has placed him among the greatest scholars in his knowledge of the planes and it's many languages. The DoL upon achieving 10th level of the PrC, knows all spoken languages, including that of abberations and other nearly incomprehensible spoken words of all living and unliving things in the planes he has visited. Further, he only has to visit a plane he hasn't been to for at least a week to learn all the languages there. Um...a bit Uber-Powerful. "ALL LANGUAGES". This needs to be a *magical* ability. It would be physically impossible by way of Book Study. You'd be dead of old age first. So, perhaps, a Special Feat (like the Metamagic ones), and limited by appropriate Game Balance Principles. Eg. - You may be summoned to the Guild to be Examined if you overuse the ability......it's like Celestial's ability to speak in tongues. Or like comprehend languages permanently switch on...so, I'd give it a 7th level spell status (1 spell level of comp. languages. + 6 for Permanency Spell). Universal Recognition: With the achievement of this ability, the diplomat is now one of the leaders in relations across the planes among hundreds if not thousands of different species. He may now add his level to all Diplomacy, Knowledge, and Innuendo checks concerning any and all sentient creatures who know of the Guild. OK - it's a fairly 'passive' ability. More role-play than otherwise... EDIT: I have added their HD and weapon/armor information. I changed the last ability slightly and gave them the option of gaining weopons feats evey level in order to be somewhat useful in combat. NO! Every third level! Fighters have the MOST feats - important game balance principle. I have also increased their skill points. I did not change Second Nature or Strange Diplomacy, except for increasing how many races they can choose, as Diplomacy is slightly different from simply learning how to kill another race, and one race from a species type maybe vastly different in what it considers good manners from another species. Nymphs live vastly different lives from Fauns and Centaus are much different from Bugbears, despite their weak points being in pretty much the same spot. I have kept their skill list as that of a rogues, because joining the Guild requires the learning of several different skills that may aid in diplomacy as well as skills for preserving oneself when diplomacy goes pear shaped. The rogues skills fit this perfectly. How many skill points per level? Overview: A very fine PrC, and very interesting interpretation of humandom. This guild strikes me as disciplined, and noble in their purpose. While all of the ideas are great, a couple/few are a little too powerful. With some adjustment, in appropriate places, it would make a fantastic addition to any D&D campaign. Congratulations - it's great. Best to You Silmarien
Gellion 07-14-03, 01:42 AM	Silmarien, have you consumed a large amount of sugar lately?
Silmarien Aldalome 07-14-03, 03:19 AM	Originally posted by Gellion Silmarien, have you consumed a large amount of sugar lately? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: no - i'm just excited by life - it's "In My Nature"....... Gellion - I've replied to your post at OneLand Best to you Silly-marien
Gellion 07-15-03, 07:59 PM	BUMP:)
Silmarien Aldalome 07-18-03, 09:52 AM	Originally posted by Gellion BUMP:) Ditto Gellion! Bump! For the best sport in the OneLand (go Kev)- Humans rock very! This thread will never vanish while Sil is Here.... I don't shame for being 'last poster' on a thread. ...The Humans have been busy on expeditions....I must keep the Fires Stoked, and the Ovens Burning - for there will be many hungry mouths to feed as people return from the wild
Kevmann 07-18-03, 10:03 AM	I think that the human foundation lacks because it is very difficult to create specific rules and prc's for humans because we are such a general and non-specific race.
Silmarien Aldalome 07-18-03, 10:10 AM	perhaps. but a foundation is the forum for remedying perceived deficits. half-elves are bland in rule-book terms - that is fixable by way of imagination. the same applies for humans. Human diversity is the foundation for a million constructs. let's create. silmarien
Kevmann 07-20-03, 12:14 AM	Hello all my human followers! We have a new topic to discuss about that was spawned by another topic I saw. What about humans with other races in their past... A human with an orc as a great-grandfather, a human with an elf as a great grandfather. Should they get special rules?
Silmarien Aldalome 07-20-03, 10:03 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann Hello all my human followers! We have a new topic to discuss about that was spawned by another topic I saw. What about humans with other races in their past... A human with an orc as a great-grandfather, a human with an elf as a great grandfather. Should they get special rules? Greetings Thread Keeper! Now, this is interesting. I'd argue with a resounding 'yes' to this question. One great grandparent is one sixteenth of each forebear's gene pool that would be of non-human blood. The question comes down to what this yields in terms of "Elf Blood" and "Orc Blood". At H/E foundation, we have the Blood Mix Rules. All the tables make Mirror Images for the move towards humandom and away from Elvendom. The tables provide percentages of "Pure" traits of non-human forebears. The formulation of the table was a very long discussion on old boards about 1/4 - 1/2 casts - and is a sound foundation for the Tables. Would you like me to post these tables here, with revised headings saying "percentage Human" instead of "Elven" and with "at least half human" as the guiding standard? You should also consider second-gen offspring - i.e. two forebears - one great grand, and a second grandparent, or great-great grandparent. Any combination with two forebears can produce *pure* genes in descendents. Do you need more information? Cheers Sil
Gellion 07-21-03, 06:36 PM	I know, maybe some sort of magic that only Humans can use.:)
OrigamiCommando 07-22-03, 10:53 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann Hello all my human followers! We have a new topic to discuss about that was spawned by another topic I saw. What about humans with other races in their past... A human with an orc as a great-grandfather, a human with an elf as a great grandfather. Should they get special rules? I got good news and bad news... Good news is, I'm way ahead of you on this one. Because I allowed bloodgifts in my games, I created one for humans that could help flavor them somewhat. For instance, I have a matriarchal race of naga in my games that can mate with humans easily (naga in my campaign are human upper half, snake lower half). Here's an example of the races abilities and special powers: Yellow Tribe Naga ---------------------- +2 Str, -2 Wis, -2 Int (Yellow Tribe Naga are very powerful but not very bright or perceptive, generally) +4 Grapple Checks (Yellow Tribes constrictor bottoms allow them to nab unsuspecting prey easily) +2 Wilderness Lore, +2 Diplomacy (Yellow tribe are extremely graceful and attractive by human standards and are survivalists by nature) Speed: 20 feet (Yellow Tribe lumber about slowly, despite their size) Smother: The yellow tribe gains the ability to suffocate unsuspecting prey in their lower halves. With this attack they can deal 1d6 subdual damage (plus an additional d6 every 6 levels thereafter; 1rst, 7th, 13th, 19th, and so on) to anyone they succsefully grapple in their coils. Though muscular, the workings of the naga's body make dealing actual damage with this attack impossible. Regardless of feats or class, the Yellow Tribe always deals subdual damage with Smother. Once grappled, prey may make a single attack with no penalty against the Naga every round or try to escape, via Escape Artist check against a DC set by the original attack roll. Creatures the naga eats are almost never actually dead when she begins her grisly feast on them. Metabolism of Her Kin: The naga almost never has to eat. She can go 3 months plus 1 week for every point of positive constitution modifier after a meal. She requires one week to fully digest a meal, however, and counts as fatigued constantly during that time. She must eat at least 1/3 her weight in meat during that time. Her water needs are identical to that of humans. Alignment: Chaotic Good (Almost all Yellow Tribe are generally good natured, despite being somewhat reckless, thanks to their integration into human society) Favored Class: Barbarian (Despite their domestication into society, the average Yellow Tribe will always remain true to her warrior past, and the nature of the beserk, even for the civilized Yellow Tribe, is something that comes naturally to them) The feat for humans is this: Strange Ancestry (Yellow Tribe Naga) [Bloodgift] Your ancestry includes the beautiful, but deadly Yellow Tribe Naga. Due to your races wildcard genetics, you carry some of your ancestors abilities with you today. Those descended from the yellow tribe generally have traits such as extremely muscular legs, dark eyes, a tendancy to lose their tempers alot, and they are somewhat plumpish. Prerequisites: Human, Female Benefits: +2 Grapple Checks and +1 Diplomacy and +1 Wilderness Lore Special: Those descended from naga only have to eat once a week. When going off the rules for starving, add a week onto the time it takes them before they must start making fortitude checks against hunger. Unfortunatley, when they do eat (designate a day of the week) for a whole of 24 hours after eating, they are fatigued, regardless of rest. Note: Before anyone cries about this being a sexist feat, I'd like to point out I have a tribe of patriarchal naga, directly opposed to this one, and to get benefits from the ancestry of that tribe, Male is a requirement. The bad news is I use rules for my homebrew which don't include the book races, so I don't know how well my system will fit in normal ol' Greyhawk. Lesee if I can make it fit. I (or you) can work this out. Just make sure you use the feats from additional add-ons as seeds for them. :D
Gellion 07-23-03, 06:21 PM	Bump:)
Kevmann 07-23-03, 06:33 PM	That is interesting OrigamiCommando, but I think it should be converted to more standard races. Also, I was thinking on more of the small scale... Like humans with orc heritage get -2 to diplomacy but +2 to intimidate, nothing so drastic as to have ability scores changed.
OrigamiCommando 07-23-03, 11:55 PM	Well, like I said, if created within the guidelines of feat building, it's a pretty good idea.
Gellion 07-29-03, 05:23 PM	Bump:)
Kevmann 07-29-03, 05:35 PM	Ok, lets try these for now... Orc heritage: This human tends to be larger and taller then their pure blood kin, normaly giving humans with orcish heritage a -2 to diplomacy, but their mean look gives them a +2 bonus to intimidate checks. Elf Heritage: This human tends to be shorter and lighter then most others, and has some natural resistances due to the elf in their bloodline. Such people get +2 on saves vs sleep effects and +1 vs enchantment effects, but a inherent weakness gives them -1 to all fortitude saves. Dwarven Heritage: This human tends to be short, but rounder then your average joe, and normaly has body hair that grows at an excpetional rate. The dwarven heratige makes him tough, giving him a +1 bonus to fortitude saves vs poison, spells, and spell like abilities, but unfortunantly their gruff apearance gives them a -1 penalty to diplomacy, bluff, disguise, gather information, and perform checks. This is just a beggining, how does it look?
Silmarien Aldalome 07-29-03, 08:40 PM	Looks great. I add to your model only - no adjustments. As a general rule I think hybrid races should get a con bonus. 'hybrid vigor arguments'. I know it's controversial to draw on 'gene concepts'. But, as Supergir69 pointed out - at some point reality intersects with D&D. In terms of Hybrid Vigor - Races with some mixed blood - have less lethal genes in homozygous combinations (e.g. Saruman's Half-Orc - stronger and more fit than either parent - this is the epitome of Hybrid Vigor - see also Mule, Liger (tiger+lion), and mongrel breed dogs). Hybrids typically have lowered fertility rates though. So, the suggestion is that those with Orc heritage - give em con bonuses. Those with Elf blood - at the least no con deficit - and there is an argument even to go the positive way - for humans with only a splash of elf blood. And definitely con bonus to a Dwarvy-Human. Hope you've been well my friend. Keep the concepts flowing. cheers sil
Gellion 07-31-03, 03:42 AM	How about a Human with Ooze heritage.:smirk:
Silmarien Aldalome 07-31-03, 03:58 AM	Originally posted by Gellion How about a Human with Ooze heritage.:smirk: Mmm Hmmm.....I see Mr.... ;) "Critical Hits not possible on humans with Ooze Heritage - their bones wobble too much". Let's see what Our Thread Keeper has to say here. cheers sil
Kevmann 07-31-03, 01:05 PM	Originally posted by Gellion How about a Human with Ooze heritage.:smirk: :rolleyes: Yea.... right... I can see a human sleeping with an ooze any day :rolleyes:
Gellion 07-31-03, 02:03 PM	Originally posted by Kevmann :rolleyes: Yea.... right... I can see a human sleeping with an ooze any day :rolleyes: Thats what magic is for.:smirk:
Kevmann 07-31-03, 02:11 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Thats what magic is for.:smirk: Oh, are we going to make that ooze look like a supermodel ;)
The Gray 07-31-03, 02:17 PM	How 'bout some midgets? Halfling Heritage: These humans tend to be very short and graceful. They recieve a +1 bonus on Climb checks, Jump checks, and attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings. However, their small size makes them slightly weak, so they recieve a -1 penalty on Strength-related skill checks (except forClimb and Jump checks). Gnomish Heritage: Humans with gnome ancestry tend to be short with blue eyes and sideburns. They recieve a +1 bonus to Illusion DCs and saves against Illusion spells, and a +1 bonus to Alchemy checks. They also recieve a -1 penalty to all Strength related skill checks. (Note that the check penalties apply ONLY to skill checks, and not Strength checks or melee rolls.) And yes, a human CAN sleep with an ooze. I know. Believe me. (?)
Kevmann 07-31-03, 02:24 PM	Those are pretty good Gray, keep um comen!
Silmarien Aldalome 07-31-03, 08:21 PM	Good Morning Humans - the first of six posts. Creating a Human Character with some non-Human Blood Creating this kind of character means firstly determining Ability Score Adjustments (see section 1.2.1), and then calculating exactly how much Human Blood your character has (as the Overall Mix Ratio see sections 1.2.2 & 1.2.3), and then, determining the Pure Traits of the character (Table in section 1.2.4). The Overall Mix Ratio is used to adjust your character's basic statistic by weighting things like height, weight, and character longevity. The Pure Traits table is then used to tailor your character - that is, you can introduce certain features that are either fully Human or fully another race in blood (i.e. in genetic code). 1.2.1 Human Blood Ability Score Adjustments Ability score adjustment are negotiable with your DM. Some things for you to think about: What was the Human parent? What was the non-human parent? Then you need to consider how this parent influences your: a) 'Structural Aspects' (i.e. 'in-born' traits - nature's genes) and the b) 'Mental Aspects' (i.e. how you, personally interpret your Human/Non-Human lineage). For a) Take the basic 'body/structural' characteristics of the Non-Human parent (e.g Wood Elf=strength & Dexterity, Dwarf=Constitution, etc), and use this to guide adjustments to your character. Use Players Handbook and DM's Guide as a basis. For b) Ask yourself how the Synergy Rules affect your self-perceptions? That is, remember that your Half-Human personality is flexible as you develop - and then you 'become' something from your childhood experiences. So, in terms of mental abilities, you will 'specialise' into either Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma. Ask yourself, what took your fancy as a child - were you inspired by a local Human wizard, did a Forest Sorceror mentor you, or were you deeply moved by a cleric who taught you the value of Iron Will? Then, simply add +2 to the primary ability you hold as a important, and then similarly, -2from the ability you don't value, or that wasn't important to you as a Half-Human child.
Silmarien Aldalome 07-31-03, 08:29 PM	1.2.2 Overall Mix Ratio (Blood-Mix) of the Human with non-Human Blood Below is a method for firstly calculating your character's Overall Mix Ratio. You can use this overall index to interpret D&D core rules for factors such as age (how long will my Human character with some non-human blood actually live if she is not a 50/50 mix of blood), height, weight and so on. If you are 75% Human, then, you will tend to be closer to Human height, weight, lifespan, than non-human. For such a character, you simply work out the difference between a Human trait and non-human trait (e.g. for height, about 1 foot for Elf versus Human) and multiply this difference by the Overall Mix Ratio (75%, or 0.75), resulting in 9" (12" X 0.75=9) for 1 foot of difference between the races. So, a 75% Human, with 25% Elven Blood will be, on average, 3" taller than shorter than Humans, and 9" taller than average Elves. This formula generalises as follows: Trait Adjustment =(Human Trait – Non Human Trait) X Overall Mix Ratio (in decimal). For the Maths-Heads: To Visualise the Normal Distribution of Half-Human Blood-Mix, contact me, and I will e-mail you the visuals as Figure 1. Bell curves don't post very well :) After adjusting your basic characteristics with the Trait Adjustment (above), you can then determine how many, if any of your character's actual component traits, are either fully Human or Non-Human. This will only be possible in the offspring of the 'pure Half-Human', because, the genes of a pure Half-Human are truly one half Human and one half non-Human (fully heterozygous, i.e. every gene has one strand of human DNA and one strand of non-Human DNA). However, the offspring of Half-Human characters can create both pure Human and non-Human genes (depending on their mate) in homozygous (pure) combinations. To calculate the amount and type of pure traits, simply consult Table 1. (two posts down)
Silmarien Aldalome 07-31-03, 08:30 PM	1.2.3 The Overall Mix Ratio: Note, for Half-Human ancestors, a=weight of the Human Male Parent (ranging from 0.00 to 1.0 units). b=weight of the Human Female Parent (ranging from 0.00 to 1.0 units). Example, the player wants to know what percentage of Human Blood Silmarien's son, Ithil'asse has. Ithil'asse's father was Human and Silmarien is herself from Elf and Human (but her Human father has one Elven grandparent). Answer firstly requires knowing how much Human blood Silmarien actually has. a=0.0 for Silmarien's Mother b=0.75 for Silmarien's Father, so, her blood is the average of a and b. Actual Human Blood = (a+b)/2 = (0.0 + 0.75)/2 = 0.3725 = 37.25% Human For Ithil'asse a=1.0 b=0.625 Actual Human Blood =(a+b)/2 =(1.0+0.3725)/2 =0.6863 =68.63% Human
Silmarien Aldalome 07-31-03, 08:36 PM	1.2.4 Table 1: Amount of Pure Traits in Offspring of Half-Humans 100% Human 75% Human 50% Human 25% Human 100% Human 100% 56.25% 25% 12.25% 75% Human 14.06% 9.38% 4.69% 50% Human 6.25% 3.12% 25% Human 1.56% 0% Human 0.00% Think of male parent on the horizontal, and the female parent on the vertical. The percentages in the centre are the amounts of Pure Traits in the Offspring of a union. So, for example, the offspring of a 100% Human with 50% Human would have 25% of their Player Character with Pure Human genes. When thinking about what, if any Pure Traits you would like to give your character, think about traits from the point of view of the following. - Physical - Mental - Metaphysical These adjustments to your character don't really affect the mechanics of game-play, but allow you to give a role-play or aesthetic dimension to your character. For example, your Half-Human character may actually have the Elven ability to detect secret doors in the same way Elves do. Or, she may not need sleep, and partake of the Trance that Elves do.
Silmarien Aldalome 07-31-03, 08:38 PM	1.2.5 Synergy Rules for Humans with non-Human Blood While basic traits such as Physical Mental or even Metaphysical traits may not affect game play much at all, Synergistic Traits have more potential for impact, particularly through the role play. A synergistic trait is one that is a wild outcome from the combination of Human and non-Human parents. In essence, synergy is 1+1=3. The fusion of blood of two racially distinct parents, can result in both parent traits ‘mutually enhancing’ or ‘altering wierdly’ the properties of the source trait. In terms of what this means for your Human Character with non-human blood, ask yourself for example “what happens when Dwarven Iron Constitution meets Human Feat Bonuses? This may mean that your part human character, for example, might be born with a free feat that enhances Constitution, or with a 1 point bonus to Constitution every three levels instead of four. You will need to negotiate these synergy bonuses with your DM. Cheers - Enjoy At Your Service Silmarien
Gellion 08-04-03, 05:13 PM	:)
Gellion 08-06-03, 02:00 AM	:)
Kevmann 08-06-03, 08:11 AM	So, Is there anything else on the human adjenda? Does anyone have any more human prestege classes? Anyone want to continue with humans with heritage stats? We are open to buisness :)
Silmarien Aldalome 08-06-03, 08:22 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann So, Is there anything else on the human adjenda? Does anyone have any more human prestege classes? Anyone want to continue with humans with heritage stats? We are open to buisness :) God yes to the first question Oh yes to the second and Very yes to the third. I will look to your lead Your Servant Silmarien - Half-Human too
Gellion 08-08-03, 12:27 AM	What about the origins of Humans? I know this will vary from world to world, but it is never really explained how Humans came to be in most worlds.
Kevmann 08-08-03, 02:25 AM	That is an excelent question. I think most people would answer that they were "created" at some point and time. But being a avid beliver in evolution, I like to think of it as something different. I like the idea of a base race, a race that all other races stem from. Why is it that elves, dwarves, and humans all have two arms, two legs, and are almost directly like each other, each with similarly built hands, feat, organs, etc. There must have been a base race somewere way back. A race that was humanoid in shape, and it developed into the other races. But I don't think this is what you were looking for Gellon, it is a good question you pose.
Gellion 08-08-03, 03:29 AM	Well in the game Arcanum, Humans actually were the first race, all the other races were just offshoots of Humans. Elves included. Although it is interesting, another thing is that Humans can breed with pretty much every race.
Kevmann 08-08-03, 03:50 AM	Although it is interesting, another thing is that Humans can breed with pretty much every race. Good point, perhaps humans were the first race! I mean, we are the universal race when it comes to half-races.
The Gray 08-08-03, 07:45 PM	IMC, the humans were a creation of all the seven major deities, who wished to create a race that exemplified Free Will. They combined all the Great Races (gnomes, elves, dwarves, lizardfolk, aaracokra, and halflings) and removed all the elemental and aligned energies from them. Thus were created the humans, the race that had no tendencies to . . . anything, really. Gods, demons, and powers had no sway over their freedom. Their fates are undecided. Granted, many younger deities consider the mojor gods' creation of the humans to be a mistake, as they have caused great harm to the other races and world(s). However, the humans are also a great boon to all life, because they, unlike all the other races, can change their Fate and are capable of great things. If that's not a Creation Myth worthy of the Human Foundation, nothing is.
Silmarien Aldalome 08-09-03, 05:21 AM	The logic of Kev's conclusion is sound - within an evolutionary perspective. It could be that the 'first race' was not human and not any of the current races either. If all races can interbreed, and not just humans, this supports two evolutionary models: "common non-human ancestor versus common human ancestor". For humans to have been the origin ancestor may be unlikely, because, while other races would have been evolving, humans would have needed to have a human form for a great deal of time. Given the breeding rates of humans, it seems likely (but not to 100%) that humans would have evolved away from their original form over time, as Elves and Dwarves branched evolutionarily. So, The Gray's "The gods created their races" rests as a viable alernative. Is evidence about from the Archmage's history that dates humans as 200,000 years or thereabouts? If yes, 'human ancestor for all' could hold. IMC - The Gray's casting applies but in fusion with Humanoid Evolution - ie. Humanoid mirrors Deity. "In the beginning, The One created all life. When the Deities sprang into being, so their Essence was reflected on Aarendor in Humanoid Form.....etc" Silmarien
Kevmann 08-10-03, 01:01 AM	If so, Sil, then why is human genes the universal genes that all races can mix with? The only way this could be is if perhaps there was a base race, but then it split in two. One race became the humans, The other race became the base race for all other races, which developed into dwarves, gnomes, etc. I don't realy have any facts that could perhaps back this theory up (I have come to the end of my evolution knowledge).
Silmarien Aldalome 08-10-03, 04:12 AM	You wonderfully cheeky BRAT you. I love it! :) Originally posted by Kevmann If so, Sil, then why is human genes the universal genes that all races can mix with? I take your point!! - but it does rest on the assumption that other races can't (c.f. haven't) done the same. Also, humans would? evolve more quickly than other races who live longer? and who produce less proginy? It (might) follow from this, that Humans are a newer, not older race. *ducks for cover* Or, alternatively, it (might) follow that humans are not easily the 'common ancestor'..... - i read your post and you allow for a similar logic. To speak to your other point about human germ plasm compatibility: If one takes an evolutionary perspective - then humans being able to outbreed, implies chromosomal compatibility between not only humans and other races, but between other races and other humanoid races. I.e. 23X2=46 chromosomes for dwarves, elves, orcs, humans and halflings. Because, to make a half-cast, you gotta combine gametes with 23 chromosomes each. Unions between species with different chromosomes are sterile. However, we gotta magical universe to integrate with this theory - . Lotsa peopls will fight an evolutionary perspective for magical reasons - as they ought to too. :) The only way this could be is if perhaps there was a base race, but then it split in two. Yes - agreed fully here - but not yet proven - merely a well-educated guess. In terms of knowledge to back up our theories - Lore can help us here. Sorts of things that would assist us - 1. History Tomes that date back so far that they speak to evolutionary concepts (the 200,000 year argument). 2. Archeological Lore - containted WITHIN novels, and narrated by authors. 3. Narrative Inference - remembering also that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". (meaning - just 'cause we got no evidence (yet) don't mean a theory ain't true). 4. Logic. Does anyone have any of 1 - 4? Cheers Sil
Frostbite_Ravenheart 08-10-03, 02:08 PM	I shall stand, knightly and all virtuous with my brother and sister of concepts Silmarien Aldalome, and anglar, two people that shair many similar ideas. HOWEVER i take no number...that would mean i am dedicated to such a foundation while i am not...rather...a being of all "Good" foundations (as oposed to evil not bad) i represnt all concepts of good. Put me as Frostbite Ravenheart-Representive of Good. BTW humans reporduce one of my favorit class/race of Paladins. No other race makes as many as humans and half-humans.
Silmarien Aldalome 08-10-03, 07:18 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart I shall stand, knightly and all virtuous with my brother and sister of concepts Silmarien Aldalome, and anglar, two people that shair many similar ideas. :rofl: :rofl: *cracks* inner schizms emerge. Jan-marien1: What did he 'mean' by that, by "i take no number" - does he mean the devil's number three, "6"s?....rerreeehaaann Jan-marien2: SHUT UP JAN - he was just being friendly! Sil-marsha: Oh, jan, you always ruin everything. Jan-marien2: Don't tell it to ME tell it to HER. *pulls it together* great to see you Frostbite!!! Cheers Sil
Gellion 08-14-03, 10:26 PM	Bumpity bump bump bump.
Gellion 08-16-03, 06:20 AM	Here is a good question for the foundation. How come Humans are almost always being the ones who destroy nature, and Elves being the ones who protect it. I am sure there are plenty of Human Druids out there. I imagine they would be mostly be Neutral, but i cannot say for sure. I know some people in real life who would make even an Elven Druid seem impious in their reverence of nature.:)
Gellion 08-17-03, 10:17 PM	Nobody wants to answer my question?:bigeyes:
Gellion 08-18-03, 06:15 PM	:bigeyes:
Kevmann 08-18-03, 06:23 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Here is a good question for the foundation. How come Humans are almost always being the ones who destroy nature, and Elves being the ones who protect it. I am sure there are plenty of Human Druids out there. I imagine they would be mostly be Neutral, but i cannot say for sure. I know some people in real life who would make even an Elven Druid seem impious in their reverence of nature.:) I think... It is cliche's, steriotypes. Humans are always seen as using nature, while elves are always seen as working with nature. Humans, due to their low life span (as compared to the elf) means they can't realy see the big picture, nor can they see beyond their own lifespan. Meaning that cutting a few trees on the edge of a forest is fine for a human, because it is a whole forest to him. BUT, in the future, when everyone cuts a few trees, you are destroying large tracks of the forest. Elves on the other hand, live for an exceptionally long time. And they also have trouble seeing past their own life span (as all creatures do), they have alot easier time since they live so long. They would rather work with nature, live with nature. It is alot slower, ten time slower, but its not a big deal since they live for so long, and it ensures they will always have enough of a recourse. Of course, if you just went with steriotypes, it is because elves love nature and have a connection with it, and humans are ignorant tword nature (I, obviously, distate the latter statement).
Gellion 08-18-03, 06:51 PM	Yeah, i hate stereotypes. And as much as i like Tolkiens work, he can be a bane on me sometimes. If i were to DM a campaign Elves would not always be portryad as perfect, and in-touch with nature. Then again, there probably would not be any Elves, or any of the other races(except for Humans, ans posibly Gnomes) in my world in the first place. I dont know why, but i find that most of the tradtional fantasy races(except for Humans) tend to detract from the fantasy experience for me.
Gellion 08-18-03, 06:54 PM	And if Humans evolved like they seem to in most worlds. Then wouldnt they technically be more in touch with nature than Elves, who are usually the creations of some deity. I myself, still consider us animals, although we have taken a very different path then most of them. Of course for D&D purposes we are Humaniods.;)
Gellion 08-19-03, 05:19 PM	:D
Gellion 08-21-03, 04:49 PM	Hellllooooooo anybody here???
The Gray 08-21-03, 05:11 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Hellllooooooo anybody here??? No, we all left. Sorry.
Gellion 08-25-03, 04:38 PM	:bigeyes:
Kevmann 08-25-03, 06:38 PM	Really, Gellion, I can't think of anything to talk about unless someone has a new ruling or prc or something to discuss :) Sorry, sometimes threads just arn't needed unless there is something for them to do :(
Gellion 08-25-03, 09:20 PM	Why arent we as popular as the other tow, i mean we are all Humans in real life(except Silmarien, i wonder about her sometimes). So why cant they have pride in their own race.:) Well, i already know Kedi has a pessimistic view of Humans, but i am not going to hate him for it.
Kevmann 08-26-03, 01:14 AM	I think that we are not as popular as the other foundations because people feel that humans don't need a foundation, which are created to support a single race or class, etc. Since humans are the most numerous and well balanced race, people do not think that humans need said support.
Silmarien Aldalome 08-26-03, 01:26 AM	Nonsense - look - you'll be at 200 posts in no time - then 300! Just takes persistence - who woulda thought H/Elves are interesting to anybody. We only have 19 members, and for a long time only 10. They'll come here if they see the social bits as well. You have to be prepared to feel (and overcome) "posters' shame" - that feeling that discourages us from posting - in case no-one replies, or about being embarrassed when no-one replies immediately. And the other big one is losing interest - and putting yourself in other zones - to 'run'. It's best to have a 'base' and to explore from that safe base, rather than abandon something that one day feels uninteresting because other things came your way. Motivation goes through ups and downs, like all things. You've built a fine foundation - don't toss it all! Also, I've had *very* 'bad hair' days at H/E foundation - I'm sure I'll have manyh more. You just gotta keep bumpin' the thread. The Human Foundation is an essential component to the Races Boards. Have FAITH in it. Cheers Silmarien
kedi 08-26-03, 03:46 AM	You need: 1-a person who always bumbs 1/48 hours:rofl: 2-good friendship:angel: 3-and a topic:teach: a human foundation is hard to survive fer sure, but not impossible. Put a hyperlink in yer sigs so you can advertise them. good luck to you! -kedi
Kevmann 08-26-03, 03:40 PM	I think we realy need to find a new topic. The reason i don't have the human foundation in my sig is because I was getting complaints that my sig was already to big, and I needed to crop it down.
Gellion 08-26-03, 04:21 PM	Ever notice how Drow are mostly evil and considred cool. Yet Humans are mostly neutral and are always seen as being worse than Drow.
Gellion 08-26-03, 04:25 PM	'Twas done then as it had been promis'd aforetime, that He was tak'n by Those Whom He Defy'd, and thrust into ye Neth'rmost Deeps und'r ye Sea, and placed within ye barnacl'd Tower that is said to rise amidst ye great ruin that is ye Sunken City (R'lyeh), and seal'd within by ye Elder Sign, and, rag'g at Those who had imprison'd Him, He furth'r incurr'd Their anger, and they, descend'g upon him for ye second time, did impose upon Him ye semblance of Death, but left Him dream'g in that place under ye great waters, and return'd to that place from whence they had come, Namely, Glyu-Vho, which is among ye stars, and looketh upon Earth from ye time when ye leaves fall to that time when ye ploughman becomes habit'd once again to his fields. And there shall He lie dream'g forever, in His House at R'lyeh, toward which at once all His minions swam and strove against all manner of obstacles, and arrang'd themselves to wait for His awaken'g powerless to touch ye Elder Sign and fearful of its great pow'r know'g that ye Cycle returneth, and He shall be freed to embrace ye Earth again and make of it His Kingdom and defy ye Elder Gods anew. And to His brothers it happen'd likewise, that They were tak'n by Those Whom They Defy'd and hurl'd into banishment, Him Who Is Not to Be Nam'd be'g sent into Outermost space, beyond ye Stars and with ye others likewise, until ye Earth was free of Them, and Those Who Came in ye shape of Towers of Fire, return'd whence They had come, and were seen no more, and on all Earth then peace came was unbrok'n while Their minions gather'd and sought means and ways with which to free ye Old Ones, and waited while man came to pry into secret, forbidd'n places and open ye gate.
Kevmann 08-26-03, 04:58 PM	I think what Gellion is saying is curiosity killed the cat... Humans got a bad rap because we are always looking for the unkown, and going to places were we realy shouldn't. And blowing over any ancient laws or traditions that other races may have that we belive is not neccessary. In general, humans are a very selfish race :)
Orcy The Green Wonder 08-26-03, 08:34 PM	That and you Humans are usually ruled by some evil overlord that managed to take rule over all yer people and force you into doing things his way. How is it you people always manage that. As for us, we're seen as evil because we just plain rock.... yeah.... look at that rockage. http://www.geocities.com/orcythegreenwonder/orcbattlegroup.txt
Silmarien Aldalome 08-26-03, 10:39 PM	Originally posted by Kevmann I think what Gellion is saying is curiosity killed the cat... Humans got a bad rap because we are always looking for the unkown, and going to places were we realy shouldn't. And blowing over any ancient laws or traditions that other races may have that we belive is not neccessary. In general, humans are a very selfish race :) Yes - we are - with some wonderful exceptions. Ghandi, Nelson Mandella, (Looks at Gellion says "Druids"!!), Laurie Anderson (personal bias - her song "Raymon" keep an eye out for it), Philanthropes everywhere...... *cracks* Elrond, Dior, Elwing, Arwen, Elladan, Elrohir....ARAGORN! (woops - wrong Foundation - sorry - momentary lapse :) ).... Anyone heard of "Ethical-Hedonism" - it's the Selfishness of Selflessness. It's where Altruism meets Love..... Cheers Silmarien (First Ruling Queen of Numenor) *looks in mirror* *Grimaces* *Don't be so VAIN Silmarien! Get over yourself!*
Gellion 08-26-03, 10:54 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome (Looks at Gellion says "Druids"!!), YAY!!!!!!!!!:)
Gellion 08-26-03, 10:55 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome (Looks at Gellion says "Druids"!!), YAY!!!!!!!!!:)
Gellion 08-26-03, 10:55 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome (Looks at Gellion says "Druids"!!), YAY!!!!!!!!!:)
Silmarien Aldalome 08-26-03, 10:59 PM	:bow: Hey, shall we give Kev a surprise with some "rapid fire" posts for surprise on his returning?? (Ethical Hedonism cited) Sil-Gift-Giving-ien
kedi 08-27-03, 03:16 AM	a new topic:: humans in elven lands and elves in humans lands, whose friendly, whose deadly, any comments?
Silmarien Aldalome 08-27-03, 03:24 AM	Originally posted by kedi a new topic:: humans in elven lands and elves in humans lands, whose friendly, whose deadly, any comments? They may sometimes cross-over - I suspect it would take time, patience and resilience on the part of the "alien" meaning - you'd go through all sorts of difficult feelings, coping with "scathing stares" from the community. Lots of Gifts required - and lots of patience -
kedi 08-27-03, 03:27 AM	yeah, but it seems like elves are not that so friendly towards humans. Humans are friendly to almost all races
Silmarien Aldalome 08-27-03, 03:29 AM	Truly - Elves do have quite a prejudiced streak in D&D - perhaps? I reckon that's about Human adaptability, and the Elven pace being 'slower'. I'm not sure I'm into humans being cast as so "power-driven" though. Gellion raises the good point that Human Druids would be a different casting.
kedi 08-27-03, 03:36 AM	Elves are slower but theyre very good with dwarfs or halflings, seems like thh humans...at they have problems wit
Silmarien Aldalome 08-27-03, 03:49 AM	Originally posted by kedi Elves are slower but theyre very good with dwarfs or halflings, seems like thh humans...at they have problems with What! Elves with Dwarves? Methinks you meant sum'in else? I also think aging has a lot to do with it. Seems to me that as humans age, there are two (broadly speaking) trajectories that occur - some turn to "vinegar" other humans to "wine" (i.e. crabby, closed, versus accepting, open). But, and also, it's never too late - I've seen humans go through transformtion at all the stages of development.
kedi 08-27-03, 03:58 AM	Well, humans are ambitious and in a hurry, right opposite elves. they have a 80 years life but an elf has minimum 650 years, even more.
Silmarien Aldalome 08-27-03, 04:03 AM	Originally posted by kedi Well, humans are ambitious and in a hurry, right opposite elves. they have a 80 years life but an elf has minimum 650 years, even more. True - to summarise: 1. Differences in Developmental Trajectory. 2. Differences in Worldly outlook. 3. Differences in Acceptance of Diversity. 4. Differences in Attitudes, Beliefs, Motivations and Ambitions. 5. Biological Differences. Similarities. 1. Biological compatibility. 2. While differences are pronounced to a certain *degree*, they also share many aspects of cognitive development (language, for example, and they each *do* have many similarities in motivation (power drive - but differences in degree only) etc. Thanx Kedi - always nice to talk with you. For Kevmann - enjoy the posts. See You Suddenly - and take Care until Soon. Silmarien
kedi 08-27-03, 04:09 AM	the pleasure is my sis, take care
Kevmann 08-27-03, 04:23 AM	Your forgetting, half-orcs have an even less age before they die. It is not the age difference that makes the difference, it is humans and elvish outlook in general. Humans do indeed tend to be brash and feel self important, because to tell all truth they are. They get more skills and more feats then anyone else because of their nature to want to get ahead, to make themselves better then all of their compition. Imagine what happens when the human acctualy does get this power :)
Orcy The Green Wonder 08-27-03, 12:27 PM	*bursts into the room* Somebody say half-orcs? Nope, just sil trying to boost her post count :P
Gellion 08-27-03, 04:04 PM	Originally posted by kedi yeah, but it seems like elves are not that so friendly towards humans. Humans are friendly to almost all races Yeah, in general us Humans are pretty friendly towards other races. Sure there are some of us who act like @sses, but we are generally nice. And you have to admit Human villians make even the most twisted Drow look tame in comparison.:behold:
Gellion 08-27-03, 10:42 PM	One thing i like about Humans, is that most of the things they accomplish, they do on their own. Take FR as an example ELves have this whole connection with Arvandor and Correlon going on, that supposedly makes them so speacial. Humans may not have this, but just through their ambition alone they can become even better at magic than even an Elven High Mage. Yes, in Faerun as long as a Human meets the prereqs they can cast epic spells. Despite what the Elfies may say. Basically, we do not need anybody but ourselves to accomplish things, we do not need any intimate connecction with a source of magical power, or anything like that. When we want something we will get it, no matter how difficult it is to obtain.
Kevmann 08-28-03, 12:55 AM	Yes, humans are great *sighs* It is humans competative nature to become better at what they are and to prove it to others that makes them want to be loners or be with like minded folk.
levay77 08-28-03, 01:11 AM	I would like to become a member. Please.:D
Kevmann 08-28-03, 01:51 AM	Wow, it has been a long time since we had a new member... Of course you can join, you don't have to beg for it :) Levay77, you are now member #011 Its nice to have you on board!
Silmarien Aldalome 08-28-03, 02:10 AM	See Kev - congratulations are in order to you and yours. May your foundation flourish eternally. You've crossed the 200th post Sil
Silmarien Aldalome 08-28-03, 02:42 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann Yes, humans are great *sighs* It is humans competative nature to become better at what they are and to prove it to others that makes them want to be loners or be with like minded folk. You gorgeous thing. This is very honest of you - moreso than The Brat Gellion's provocative comments! ;) It's the difference between healthy rivalry and competitive malice that humans need to come to terms with. While the former is about sportsmanship, and Celebrating others' success, even when one "loses" a race. Whereas the latter is about "eliminating or removing threats". At the end of the day, it's really an Inner Struggle - some times you win some, sometimes you lose some. It's the Journey not the Outcome that really counts. So - I LOVE YOU ALL! And - "may your Foundation Ever Flourish" and "if you Pass the Half-Elven Foundation" I will smile at your success, and use that Gift to develop H/E strategies to make us Thrive alongside you. And in "Ethical Hedonism" I give to you - to assist your Foundation - even though I add one to your count and not to our Own Foundation. :bow: Your Servant Silmarien
Gellion 08-28-03, 05:56 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome You gorgeous thing. This is very honest of you - moreso than The Brat Gellion's provocative comments! ;) :P
Gellion 08-30-03, 01:44 PM	:behold:
Dark Elven Shadow Master 08-31-03, 09:07 PM	Originally posted by Gellion :P See - exactly....have also posted at your thread at Forgotten Realms - Hey - I've found some fantastic supporting stuff from Cormanthyr to go to ideas for you. Will post it later. On-Topic - That and you Humans are usually ruled by some evil overlord that managed to take rule over all yer people and force you into doing things his way. How is it you people always manage that. As for us, we're seen as evil because we just plain rock.... yeah.... look at that rockage. Sometimes yes :) sometimes - you get different kinds of leadership amongst humans. - "Brinkmanship" i.e. necessity driven - and she with the most skills gets the job. - "by convention" as in - qualifications, and stuff for status quo - "by Will and fear" as in the Orcy-mode description. - By sharing. All different models of human leadership.... and many more... any ideas?
Gellion 09-01-03, 02:56 PM	"To shake off the maddening and wearying limitations of time and space and natural law -- to be linked with the vast outside -- to come close to the nighted and abysmal secrets of the infinite and ultimate -- surely such a thing was worth the risk of one's life, soul, and sanity!"
Gellion 09-01-03, 10:33 PM	i am wondering why we do not get more members. Everyone on these boards is a Human, they should at least have some faith in their own kind.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 09-01-03, 11:07 PM	Patience is a virture - they will arrive - in steady trickles, and then in bursts.... Faith - and in the meantime - Sing! Silmarien BTW - Humans - I've been researching at Forgotten Realms - and we've done extensive analysis on the Cormanthyr meta-text about High Elven Magic. There is *every* reason to believe that humans can create their own uber-magic. Gellion - have you hadda look at the stuff I posted on your thread, and also a big wave of posts on another one about the Nether Scrolls......? Silmarien
Gellion 09-01-03, 11:10 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Gellion - have you hadda look at the stuff I posted on your thread, and also a big wave of posts on another one about the Nether Scrolls......? Yes, i have. I am also probably going to change back to me original idea of how i would have Humans cast epic level magic.:)
Gellion 09-04-03, 10:15 PM	Whosoever speaketh of Cthulhu shall remember that he but seemeth dead; he sleeps, and yet he does not sleep; he has died, and yet he is not dead; asleep and dead though he is, he shall rise again. Again, it should be shown that: That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange eons even death may die. Great Cthulhu shall rise from R'lyeh, Hastur the Unspeakable shall return from the dark star which is in the Hyades near Aldebaran, the red eye of the bull, Nyarlathotep shall howl forever in the darkness where he abideth, Shub-Niggurath shall spawn its thousand young, and they shall spawn in turn and take dominion over all wood nymphs, satyrs, leprechauns, and the Little People, Lloigor, Zhar, and Ithaqua shall ride the spaces among the stars.... He who hath the five-pointed stone shall find himself able to command all beings which creep, swim, crawl, walk, or fly even to the source from which there is no returning....
Silmarien Aldalome 09-04-03, 11:02 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Yes, i have. I am also probably going to change back to me original idea of how i would have Humans cast epic level magic.:) Cool - and why shouldn't you! Post it here - it's worth having a look. Was that your "Mystra-replacement" idea? And does it use "Nether-Scrolls" or - another version. BTW - there seems to be a 'loosening' of the 'tightness' that goes with Faerunian stuff there. Too much "canon" for my liking before. Cheers
Gellion 09-04-03, 11:16 PM	My original idea was to have Humans be able to cast epic level magic through sheer ambition. Which is probably what i am going to do.:) Read my post about it in the FR Spells & Magic forum. Joneleth shot down the idea, but he is a bit too logical for my liking.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-04-03, 11:26 PM	I thought that was where you were coming from. Yes Joneleth didn't help you develop your idea as much as invalidate it. Those physicists! There ain't no logic in magic - not 'real' logic, only 'quasi' logic. Which thread - then I can go back to it and help you build it the way you wish. I'd suggest "ambition" fused with "lore" as the way to go with it. It's a great idea BTW. sil
Gellion 09-05-03, 07:09 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome I thought that was where you were coming from. Yes Joneleth didn't help you develop your idea as much as invalidate it. Those physicists! There ain't no logic in magic - not 'real' logic, only 'quasi' logic. Which thread - then I can go back to it and help you build it the way you wish. I'd suggest "ambition" fused with "lore" as the way to go with it. It's a great idea BTW. sil It was the thread called "Once again Humans and epic level magic". Although you do not need to help me, if it makes for a good story i will do it.:)
Dark Elven Shadow Master 09-06-03, 12:45 AM	Originally posted by Gellion It was the thread called "Once again Humans and epic level magic". Although you do not need to help me, if it makes for a good story i will do it.:) :cool: wanna build it here - at Human Foundation? Sil-Dark-Elven-Confuse-ian
Gellion 09-06-03, 12:50 AM	Originally posted by Dark Elven Shadow Master :cool: wanna build it here - at Human Foundation? Perhaps, but i am crap at making PrCs.:(
Silmarien Aldalome 09-06-03, 01:03 AM	....well, if you got the inciliation - you could provide the "lore" and I could "structure" it into PrC status...i've done that several times for others at H/E foundation. I know you're a busy chap - so just a skeleton. ...um, you want 1. "Ambition" - but beyond that - I don't know what "flavour" you'd like - just post quick 'shopping list' of 'would-likes' and also 'do nots' if you wish....?? sil
Gellion 09-06-03, 01:21 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome ....well, if you got the inciliation - you could provide the "lore" and I could "structure" it into PrC status...i've done that several times for others at H/E foundation. I know you're a busy chap - so just a skeleton. ...um, you want 1. "Ambition" - but beyond that - I don't know what "flavour" you'd like - just post quick 'shopping list' of 'would-likes' and also 'do nots' if you wish....?? Well, the caster in question would have to have either 26 Int or Cha, depending on which caster they are. They would have to have 24 ranks in Spellcraft as well. This would represent thwe Humans will to master magic, either they are intelligent enough to understand how to go beyond the weave, or can simply go beyond the weave by their own force of will power. I do not want it to be realted to anything having to do with Elves or Half-Elves, or any other race what so ever. I guess i want it to be sort of similar to Netherese magic, except not needing the Nether Scrolls. I know this sounds like an Uber-Caster(Which it is), but i like very high powered games. If there were any typos in this, im sorry. I really do not feel like fixing them.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-06-03, 01:44 AM	Originally posted by Gellion Well, the caster in question would have to have either 26 Int or Cha, depending on which caster they are. They would have to have 24 ranks in Spellcraft as well. This would represent thwe Humans will to master magic, either they are intelligent enough to understand how to go beyond the weave, or can simply go beyond the weave by their own force of will power. I do not want it to be realted to anything having to do with Elves or Half-Elves, or any other race what so ever. I guess i want it to be sort of similar to Netherese magic, except not needing the Nether Scrolls. I know this sounds like an Uber-Caster(Which it is), but i like very high powered games. 1. Ambition. 2. Intelligence/Charisma based mastery of magic. 3. Beyond the weave. 4. Non-Elven 5. Non-Nether scrolls Foundation Lore: suggestion - near death experience - or a necessity driven experience in being "everywhere and nowhere". An experience being "outside time" or "timeless" - "immersion in raw magic while protected by *something*. The ambition driving the 'dare' or 'the journey into the Unknown'. The 'timeless experience' being necessary to subvert Mystra's (STUPID) portfolio restrictions (I HATE THAT WORD "PORTFOLIO" for magic). The 'immersion+protection' - perhaps some deity's assistance? Perhaps and artifact's assistance? Or would you prefer this PrC to *not* need deity's assistance at all?
Gellion 09-06-03, 01:46 AM	No deities at all. I would want the whole point of the PrC to be that you would only need yourself to gain acess to powerful magic.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-06-03, 02:00 AM	:cool: then - I'll base the background lore on the ideas summarised above - minus deific intervention. Add anything else you wish before I begin. Also - do you have any particular "functions" in mind - for the PrC? E.g. 1. Halt Weave Casters 2. Halt Opposing Weave 3. Destroy Weave 4. Immerse into Raw Magic 5. Trans-dimensional jaunt 6. Ripple Effect through the Weave (to any "where", in any "time")
Gellion 09-06-03, 02:06 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome :cool: then - I'll base the background lore on the ideas summarised above - minus deific intervention. Add anything else you wish before I begin. Also - do you have any particular "functions" in mind - for the PrC? E.g. 1. Halt Weave Casters 2. Halt Opposing Weave 3. Destroy Weave 4. Immerse into Raw Magic 5. Trans-dimensional jaunt 6. Ripple Effect through the Weave (to any "where", in any "time") Well a lot of those sound really cool, but i know they are already in one of your PrCs. Sooooo even though they do not use the Nether Scrools, i would reccomend looking at how the Netherese cast spells as a sort fo basis for how this PrC will do it. Although it should still be different seeing as how they do not use the Nether Scrools. Also when they gain the PrC, i would like them to gain an increased lifespan. I know the Elven High Mage gets a certain numbers of percentile dice to role.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-06-03, 02:18 AM	Also when they gain the PrC, i would like them to gain an increased lifespan. That will be the last level's - or the first of the PrC's 'distinctive functionss' then. I like the idea and hate the aging rules in Core rules. I know the Elven High Mage gets a certain numbers of percentile dice to role. Do you mean to extra life, or for spell success? also - in terms of Netherese - do you want something like 1. Mythallar things (not Mythals). 2. Float city? 3. Command over large areas of Elements. 4. Weather control thingy's... 5. Dare I suggest it Karsus Avatar??!!!! Name it, or describe the flavour. Hey, it must be getting very late where you are. Do you wish to continue now?
Gellion 09-06-03, 02:20 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome That will be the last level's - or the first of the PrC's 'distinctive functionss' then. I like the idea and hate the aging rules in Core rules. Do you mean to extra life, or for spell success? also - in terms of Netherese - do you want something like 1. Mythallar things (not Mythals). 2. Float city? 3. Command over large areas of Elements. 4. Weather control thingy's... 5. Dare I suggest it Karsus Avatar??!!!! Name it, or describe the flavour. Hey, it must be getting very late where you are. Do you wish to continue now? I am going to be up for a while, so i can continue. I like a lot of the above stuff, especially the last one.:smirk:
Silmarien Aldalome 09-06-03, 02:38 AM	Originally posted by Gellion I am going to be up for a while, so i can continue. I like a lot of the above stuff, especially the last one.:smirk: OK - a few more posts are in order then. Karsus-Avatar - let's call it "Deific Challenge?" "Displace Deity" "Disrupt Pantheon" "Avatar Ascention"....???? which one and ditch the "karsus" thing. OK - and how about - "Seasonal Arrest" (Hold Winter/Hold Spring/Hold Autumn/Hold Summer) - like a 'fix a season in place' thing? So to summarise we got - age extension (but not into a creepy liche) - some sort of "deific challenge" - Create Non-Weave Mythallar - Uber-Seasonal thingy - How about "Tidal Control" over water. - and what about "Shift Planetary Orbit"? - to either heat up a cool planet, or cool down a hot planet by shifting it away from a sun. - Change Sun (to a red star from a yellow one, or make a blue from a yellow sun). - Explode Sun - Rip Space - Destroy Planet - Create Life .......???
Gellion 09-06-03, 02:49 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome OK - a few more posts are in order then. Karsus-Avatar - let's call it "Deific Challenge?" "Displace Deity" "Disrupt Pantheon" "Avatar Ascention"....???? which one and ditch the "karsus" thing. OK - and how about - "Seasonal Arrest" (Hold Winter/Hold Spring/Hold Autumn/Hold Summer) - like a 'fix a season in place' thing? So to summarise we got - age extension (but not into a creepy liche) - some sort of "deific challenge" - Create Non-Weave Mythallar - Uber-Seasonal thingy - How about "Tidal Control" over water. - and what about "Shift Planetary Orbit"? - to either heat up a cool planet, or cool down a hot planet by shifting it away from a sun. - Change Sun (to a red star from a yellow one, or make a blue from a yellow sun). - Explode Sun - Rip Space - Destroy Planet - Create Life .......??? YES, YES!!!!!!! MORE MORE!!!!!!!!!!! I like Avatar Ascension the best. And i love all of the ideas.:D
Gellion 09-06-03, 02:52 AM	Also, like i said in the other thread. Human epic magic would be a very personal thing. As opposed the the Elves sort of communal thing. It would be unique to each person who used it.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-06-03, 02:58 AM	ahhh, I see - good stuff. OK - the "personalised function" I will think about - and we have a sound basis for the PrC. - so, havta go to see me mate off to overseas now - but I will cast this into a PrC shortly. Now - if you have any extra ideas - bring em on. Looks like Mystra's got her work cut out for her - here comes New Karsus Day (DAMN THAT PORTFOLIO THING). take care Gellion - see you suddenly - Silmarien
Gellion 09-06-03, 03:01 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome ahhh, I see - good stuff. OK - the "personalised function" I will think about - and we have a sound basis for the PrC. - so, havta go to see me mate off to overseas now - but I will cast this into a PrC shortly. Now - if you have any extra ideas - bring em on. Looks like Mystra's got her work cut out for her - here comes New Karsus Day (DAMN THAT PORTFOLIO THING). take care Gellion - see you suddenly - Silmarien Okay, hope you get back soon, so you can make that PrC for me.:) YAY FOR SILMARIEN!!!!!!!!!!:)
Gellion 09-06-03, 03:13 AM	Oh, i have another cool idea. How about being able to manipulate "nothingness" itself.
Gellion 09-06-03, 10:13 PM	:)
Gellion 09-07-03, 08:38 PM	:behold:
Silmarien Aldalome 09-08-03, 09:51 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Okay, hope you get back soon, so you can make that PrC for me.:) YAY FOR SILMARIEN!!!!!!!!!!:) I am here Gellion - greetings - hope you've been well - it is on its way. Today (oz-day) some time - thank you for your patience. Any news my friend? Silmarien
Gellion 09-08-03, 09:55 PM	Nothing much, other than being bored.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 09-08-03, 09:57 PM	No Problemo - see you suddenly - sil's in background - am at work - short posts for now. take care
Gellion 09-08-03, 09:58 PM	YAY!!!!!!!:) The Foundation finally hit the ninth page.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 09-09-03, 04:45 AM	Avatar Dweomer Master Humans who have an excessive burning ambition and drive towards mastery occasionally create a Destiny for themselves that surpasses all knowledge, convention, expectation and known limits. This Journey of Emergence is a profound expression of human potential - and is neither straight-forward, easy, and certainly not without great risk, and pain. All matter of the Universe is manufactured in stars. Stars begin the creation of matter with basic elements and by way of Fusion, create heavier elements - and so planetary matter, cosmic dust, and all the building blocks of life come from stars. An Avatar Dweomer Master has discovered and learned mastery over the very forces of matter and nature. That is, you recognise how to "manifest the energy of stardust" that is locked deeply within every human body. This mastery resides in the space between Magical Energy and the Energy of Matter. Together, these two basic forces of life are unlocked by the Avatar Dweomer Master who has learned to control these wild forces of nature. A human being of very high level, who is protected by the highest level Abjurations known to mages, and whose very body has collided with basic forces of nature - produces a Synergy Effect that results in the Annihilation of Body and the Immersion of Mind into the very Essence of the Universe. This is a collision of Law, Chaos, Evil, Good, Transformation, Transmutation, Evocation and Abjuration, results in a giant explosion that opens a trans-temporal portal - into the Space beyond Space, and Time Beyond Time. This experience to the human cannot be characterised by word, voice, or phrase, but the expression "to be blasted into annihilation with Mind in-tact" partially describes the process. In the No-Sphere of No-Time and No-Space, the Human is transformed. And if she chooses, she may re-corporate and return to the material plane, but she is forever irrevocably altered. Prerequisites 1. Any spell caster who can cast at least 9thlevel Abjuration. 2. Wisdom of 22 or higher. 3. An outstanding experience which challenged a characters core beliefs about absolutism and black and white thinking. To even begin to glean the mysteries of the universe, a person must be able to think outside of all learned convention and learned knowledge. Thus, the Human must have had a very serious challenge to their existing belief system before they can access Avatar statsu. 4. Maturity. Characters must be out of their young adulthood. 5. At least two Wisdom based Feats. 6. At least four Metamagic Feats. Class Skills Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (the Planes), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Arcana), Concentration, Spellcraft, Alchemy. Skill Points 4+Intelligence Modifier (i.e. as per Wizard) Class Features Weapon & Armour Proficiency as per parent Class Spells At every level, the character gains spell slots as if she had gained a level in the spellcasting/ranger class she belonged to. However, she does not gain any other benefits of the parent class that would have been gained with level advancement (feats, special abilities). If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Freewalker, she must decide which class to add the new Prestige Class to for the purposes of determining spells per day. The following table applies, even though this is an Epic Level PrC. Avatar Dweomer Master Statistics Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will 1 +1 +2 +0 +2 Avatar Dweomer Adept 2 +2 +3 +0 +3 Avatar Dweomer Principle 3 +3 +3 +1 +3 Avatar Dweomer Kindler 4 +4 +4 +1 +4 Avatar Dweomer Ascendant 5 +5 +4 +2 +4 Avatar Dweomer Master Avatar Dweomer Adept 1. At first level, you may Counter-Magic as a free action, and without need or recourse to spells. You are so in touch with Native Magical Energy that it is yours to command freely. 2. You also learn to command the basic forces of nature: air, fire, water and earth - but in Epic proportions. This enables you, for example, to create storms, deserts, hurricanes, earthquakes, tidal waves, create fires over vast areas of land, or alternatively, you may stop these same effects. Any force of nature is yours to command. There is a DC check associated with use of this function Proportion of Event DC-Check Small effect 15 Small-Moderate effect 20 Moderate effect 25 Moderate-large effect 30 Large effect 35 Your DM will moderate these effects, and she will determine what is "small" versus "large". But, this is a Wisdom Based ability - and involves the interaction of Existential Energy (created by the Mind) with the forces of Nature. The Avatar adds their Wisdom Bonus to dice roll, and adds 5 per PrC Level (so a Large Effect has a 50-50 chance of success at maximum PrC level on a D-20 roll unmodified by Wisdom). 3. Weaveless Casting. You may cast all your spells without drawing on the Weave. Avatar Dweomer Principle 1. You may create a Weaveless Mythallar. These effects are to be moderated by your DM, but may include basic Mythallar functions, such as Float City. 2. Alter Season. You may actually shift the Plantary Axis (the Procession of the planetary orbit) to literally change the current season. 3. Deepen Seasonal Effects. You may add degrees or subtract degrees of tilt to the Planetary Axis. If 'more tilt' was introduced, you could make both summers and winters more severe. Days would lengthen and shorten between solstices and equinoxes appropriately. Avatar Dweomer Kindler Change Sun's Energy. This function may make change the actual colour of a sun. So, you might change a yellow sun to a hotter sun (a blue sun) or to a cooler sun (a red sun). Avatar Dweomer Ascendent 1. Explode or Create Sun/Planet: Your power has increased to such an extent that you can actually destroy or create a sun. The former disperses the sun's elements into space, the latter coalesces matter (Hydrogen). 2. Rip Space: this is a rending of "space". The effect is to disrupt all things in the Prime Material Plane inside the area of effect. It is a rending of the actual substance of the prime material plane - and the creation of Dark Matter or Dark Energy from Space. Dark Matter cannot be seen, measured or felt and neither can Dark Energy. These "zones" are not noticed as one passes through them (after the effect). They are in Unspace or Non-Space. But this effect causes Shar to accummulate Power into the Shadow Weave and disrupts the balances between deities. 3. Create Life: You are so in tune with Life Force that you can reverse entropy and create Life from Lifelessness. 4. Shift Planetary Orbit: you learn how to shift the obit of a planet either more close to the sun, or further away. Avatar Dweomer Master 1. Avatar Status: this spell is akin to Karsus' Avatar - it permits you to subsume another Deity into your "portfolio" thereby increasing your power. But, when you interfere with Deific boundary-space, you will attract the attention of several deities. 2. Life-Extension: you glean mastery over flesh to such extent that your body becomes Timeless.
kedi 09-09-03, 04:51 AM	:bow: you sil, a great work again!
Gellion 09-09-03, 07:25 AM	I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!*Hugs Sil*:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Gellion 09-09-03, 07:34 AM	And the things you can do are very powerful, but i do not see anything that says you can use epic level magic. Although i would assume since you do not need the weave, you can cast epic spells, if you took the feat. Because you would not be limited by Mystras ban.
Gellion 09-09-03, 06:28 PM	Hey Sil, mind if i post this PrC in the FR Classes & Races forum? I will not post it there until you have Oked me. Credit will be given to you.:)
Gellion 09-10-03, 10:43 PM	:behold:
Gellion 09-13-03, 01:19 PM	I have got another interesting topic to talk about. This is sort of FR related, but i always hear in all the HEM threads about how only those with an Elven soul can use it. Well, what would a Human soul be like? And what would it infer?
Silmarien Aldalome 09-13-03, 10:25 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I have got another interesting topic to talk about. This is sort of Fr related, but i always hear in all the HEM threads about how only those with an Elven soul can use it. Well, what would a Human soul be like? And what would it infer? I'd like to think that all "souls" were somehow "distinct" but also "similar" I'd say human soul-destiny would be distinct to other soul-destiny - but exactly how is difficult to say. Sourcebooks aren't clear about this area. And because the human pantheon is so plural - I'd say that "many" outcomes are possible.....
Gellion 09-13-03, 11:27 PM	Originally posted by kedi a new topic:: humans in elven lands and elves in humans lands, whose friendly, whose deadly, any comments? I honestly think that most Humans dont mind Elves. And are at worst indifferent, and at best friendly. As has been said by some people on these forums, Elves might view Humans as children. This causes them to inadvertently have a bit of a conscending attitude towards them.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-13-03, 11:38 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I honestly think that most Humans dont mind Elves. And are at worst indifferent, and at best friendly. As has been said by some people on these forums, Elves might view Humans as children. This causes them to inadvertently have a bit of a conscending attitude towards them. Yeah - that's an interesting one. The whole "wisdom-life-length" thing. Is it a fair to assume that "shorter life means less wisdom" or do Elves take longer to "get" wisdom. What is human wisdom? And is it the same as Elven wisdom? And also - importantly - is it a wise person who has a "condescending" attitude. That is, the whole "snooty Elves" don't strike me as very wise. Cheers
Gellion 09-13-03, 11:46 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Yeah - that's an interesting one. The whole "wisdom-life-length" thing. Is it a fair to assume that "shorter life means less wisdom" or do Elves take longer to "get" wisdom. What is human wisdom? And is it the same as Elven wisdom? And also - importantly - is it a wise person who has a "condescending" attitude. That is, the whole "snooty Elves" don't strike me as very wise. I think Humans can be wise int aht most tend to live life to the fullest. While Elves have a tendency to sit around. As for the age and wisdom thing, Humans do get it faster game wise, i think this is also the reason why in some literature, there is always an old Human man who is much more wiase than even a relatively old Elf. The snootiness would also strike me as being a low charisma score, someone who has to act superior to others probably has a problem communicationg with others.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-14-03, 12:15 AM	Originally posted by Gellion I think Humans can be wise int aht most tend to live life to the fullest. While Elves have a tendency to sit around. As for the age and wisdom thing, Humans do get it faster game wise, i think this is also the reason why in some literature, there is always an old Human man who is much more wiase than even a relatively old Elf. The snootiness would also strike me as being a low charisma score, someone who has to act superior to others probably has a problem communicationg with others. :cool: I add that part of the 'getting' of Wisdom is about experience, adversity, suffering, loss, and grief. Humility seems to be a by-product or associated with it too. So - if humans are more "ambitious" then it follows that they will expose themselves to more situations that may cause adversity suffering loss grief And thereby set themselves up to become wiser folk more quickly. Sil
Gellion 09-14-03, 12:24 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome :cool: I add that part of the 'getting' of Wisdom is about experience, adversity, suffering, loss, and grief. Humility seems to be a by-product or associated with it too. So - if humans are more "ambitious" then it follows that they will expose themselves to more situations that may cause adversity suffering loss grief And thereby set themselves up to become wiser folk more quickly. Sil Pretty much.:cool:
Gellion 09-14-03, 12:29 AM	I also think that Humans make for the best lucky sap type hero, i know some people may point to Halflings, because of their +1 luck bonues. But i still think Humans are the best lucky sap type hero. The guy who stumbles along, not sure of what to do, but manages to defeat the enemy, and get the girl in the end. Humans are much more likely to get pulled into something that they probably want nothing to do with.
Tenzhi 09-14-03, 12:44 AM	Originally posted by Gellion But i still think Humans are the best lucky sap type hero. The guy who stumbles along, not sure of what to do, but manges to defeat the enemy, and get the girl in the end. i.e. Dirk the Daring of Dragon's Lair fame. Or even Han Solo and Indiana Jones. Yes, this sort of hero is well-suited to humanity. It's also this sort of underdog hero that supports the idea (IMO) that humans shouldn't get an extra skill point and feat. I'd be more in favour of a limited-use ability that allows you to add a d6 to any one roll a certain number of times per day/session - kind of like Action Points in d20 Modern but without the Points.
Gellion 09-14-03, 12:50 AM	I also dislike that Elves tend to be portrayed as the only race that is creative. Humans tend to be very creative, and can produce great works of art.
Gellion 09-15-03, 10:39 PM	:)
Riggoras_44 09-16-03, 05:54 PM	Riggoras 44 sends his regards to his fellow members of the Human Foundation in this, the 182th anniversary of his country's independence. Hey, everyone! Missed me? I did miss you. I hope you're glad about my comeback... Because I'm returning even if you aren't :smirk: I am excited about posting again in this forum, so I dashed through all of the posts made after I left... Don't worry, I will read them as homework. Promise. :D
Gellion 09-16-03, 06:46 PM	Welcome back Riggoras.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 09-16-03, 07:15 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 Riggoras 44 sends his regards to his fellow members of the Human Foundation in this, the 182th anniversary of his country's independence. Hey, everyone! Missed me? I did miss you. I hope you're glad about my comeback... Because I'm returning even if you aren't :smirk: I am excited about posting again in this forum, so I dashed through all of the posts made after I left... Don't worry, I will read them as homework. Promise. :D Silmarien sees the Presence of an Old Familiar Face - and..... She bursts into Tears and Song Wandering afar - Under the Stars The Mortal Form - A Song it Calls He Needs Must Walk - As is his Wont But Returning Is - In This Place Now See How He Smiles - And Shines so Bright The Wounded One - From Planes so Far Congratulations on your country's Celebrations - may they have brought you One-Thousand Feelings of Coming Home. Welcome Back Silmarien
Gellion 09-18-03, 09:35 PM	:)
Riggoras_44 09-18-03, 10:41 PM	The human foundation needs no bumps! No sir! We can live with what we have! Nice verse, Sil. All the more since it was dedicated to meee! :cool: You either have gotten better at it, or I had forgotten how good you were. Always keep up the good work!
Silmarien Aldalome 09-20-03, 03:27 AM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 The human foundation needs no bumps! No sir! We can live with what we have! Nice verse, Sil. All the more since it was dedicated to meee! :cool: You either have gotten better at it, or I had forgotten how good you were. Always keep up the good work! Thank you Riggoras..... :bow: Human Power - Shining Towers Where's the Grasses and the Flowers? Expanding Might, Unbridled Night We Walk through the Vales of Despite But Hope is Always inside you you Shining Compassion's Solace and Dweomer's Purpose Bring your Aspects all Together Make the Human Great and Humble
Gellion 09-20-03, 03:48 AM	This is somehwhat related. But i have always noticed how Human women are always portrayed as being less beautiful than Elven ones. I sort of have an idea for a little fluff peice in my head, it is basically about two Humans, who are adventurers, and are guets in an Elven forest. The female has feelings of insecurity next to all of the Elven women, but the man, tells her that she is more beautiful than any of them. There is a lot more to i know you are all probably like this.:uh-huh: Although, like most of my ideas, it will never get written down.
Tenzhi 09-20-03, 05:07 AM	I generally find elvish women too thin and frail for my tastes (though the Ballpark Elf plumps when you cook it).
Silmarien Aldalome 09-20-03, 05:29 AM	Originally posted by Gellion This is somehwhat related. But i have always noticed how Human women are always portrayed as being less beautiful than Elven ones. I sort of have an idea for a little fluff peice in my head, it is basically about two Humans, who are adventurers, and are guets in an Elven forest. The female has feelings of insecurity next to all of the Elven women, but the man, tells her that she is more beautiful than any of them. There is a lot more to i know you are all probably like this.:uh-huh: Although, like most of my ideas, it will never get written down. And - so another Union of Elf and Man happens.... The Peredhil Live :bow:
Gellion 09-20-03, 02:08 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome And - so another Union of Elf and Man happens.... The Peredhil Live :bow: Uh, no. It is about two Humans.
Riggoras_44 09-20-03, 05:22 PM	Well, Silmarien was able to gaze deeper into that story than you could, Gellion. A man's mouth and his heart are in different places, after all. :angel: Sorry, it was a joke I couldn't refrain from making. But it is a beautiful story nonetheless.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-20-03, 07:52 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Uh, no. It is about two Humans. :rofl: It's called "blind-sight" - ...what?? no Elf???.....I saw one.. ;) G'day Riggoras - how have you been? Cheers Silmarien
Gellion 09-20-03, 08:09 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome :rofl: It's called "blind-sight" - ...what?? no Elf???.....I saw one.. ;) No, its called delusional.;)
Tenzhi 09-20-03, 08:17 PM	I think the story could be deep in a Dwarven stronghold and involving only Dwarves and Sil would still manage to see half-elves.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-20-03, 08:21 PM	Originally posted by Gellion No, its called delusional.;) Turns to Tenzhi - then to Gellion *cracks* Sil-Marsha: What, me, delusional! *giggles* Jan-Marien1: What did he MEAN by that. *pulls it together* To Tenzhi - ;) the peoples of Andromeda - are all Half-Elves - as are....all the people of Australia ....and um.....my mom was elven and....she's from a Greek Village - where - the Fae Folk still live in secret caves.... Woops - hang on - I'm so confused Cheers sil
Gellion 09-20-03, 08:24 PM	Well, it was just an idea i had, and Riggoras. His mind was on the Human women the whole time.;)
Silmarien Aldalome 09-20-03, 08:38 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Well, it was just an idea i had, and Riggoras. His mind was on the Human women the whole time.;) :cool: And why shouldn't he have his mind on courting a beautiful human woman.... *cracks* Sil-Marsha: No Gellion! *pouts sookily - princess-style* no-one can find anyone but ME attractive - Oh Jan! It's all your FAULT!
Gellion 09-20-03, 09:07 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome However, she does not gain any other benefits of the parent class that would have been gained with level advancement (feats, special abilities). If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Freewalker, she must decide which class to add the new Prestige Class to for the purposes of determining spells per day. Hey, this is the Avatar Dweomer Master, not the Freewalker.:mad:
Silmarien Aldalome 09-20-03, 09:13 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Hey, this is the Avatar Dweomer Master, not the Freewalker.:mad: Woooops!!! *humblest apologies* Silmarien
Riggoras_44 09-21-03, 10:06 PM	I am somehow confused by Sil's later posts... Who are those two characters you were interpreting? Coming back to the story: But then again, maybe the man was a Druid and the woman was an animal (you know what I mean). The manners of an Elf maiden would make her to be less attractive to this male than the human woman. Hey, since when is Tenzhi posting in this thread? I am going to start a fund recollection to exorcise the house. Just joking :D I'll be on my constant watch around here.
Gellion 09-21-03, 10:16 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 I am somehow confused by Sil's later posts... Who are those two characters you were interpreting? Coming back to the story: But then again, maybe the man was a Druid and the woman was an animal (you know what I mean). The manners of an Elf maiden would make her to be less attractive to this male than the human woman. Hey, since when is Tenzhi posting in this thread? I am going to start a fund recollection to exorcise the house. Just joking :D I'll be on my constant watch around here. Read the Human only PrC Sil posted on page nine.:)
Gellion 09-21-03, 10:18 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 Coming back to the story: But then again, maybe the man was a Druid and the woman was an animal (you know what I mean). The manners of an Elf maiden would make her to be less attractive to this male than the human woman. No, i have no clue what you are trying to say. It is just supposed to be a story about two Humans.
Gellion 09-21-03, 10:30 PM	"Not for mortal mind is any resisting of force beyond human imagination. Not for immortal spirit is any conquering of that which hath probed the depths and made of immortality a transient moment. The end? Nay! It is but the blissful beginning. . . ." - HP Lovecraft
Silmarien Aldalome 09-21-03, 11:38 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 I am somehow confused by Sil's later posts... Who are those two characters you were interpreting? Which posts??? The manners of an Elf maiden would make her to be less attractive to this male than the human woman. That's if the elf was open to meeting humans. In LotR it was never a male elf who ended up with a human female......hmmmm So, yeah, more likely that the humans would turn to each other in a cruel/snooty elven community. Hey, since when is Tenzhi posting in this thread? I am going to start a fund recollection to exorcise the house. Just joking :D I'll be on my constant watch around here. ward the Elf-Bane - ever he doth take exception to human too - and methink he eats man-flesh as he eats elves! Ai!
Silmarien Aldalome 09-21-03, 11:39 PM	Originally posted by Gellion "Not for mortal mind is any resisting of force beyond human imagination. Not for immortal spirit is any conquering of that which hath probed the depths and made of immortality a transient moment. The end? Nay! It is but the blissful beginning. . . ." - HP Lovecraft to be "Immortally Mortal" Sil
Gellion 09-21-03, 11:43 PM	Well the story would be set at night, in an Elven forest. These two Humans are part of an adventuring group, one of which is an Elf who came from the Elven community they are in. The Elves are doing all their sissy little Elf things that they do. And by most peoples definition would be considered very beautiful. The Human women feels insecure, but the Human man, who has always loved her. Tells her that she is more beautiful than any of the Elven maidens.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-22-03, 12:16 AM	Originally posted by Gellion ......The Elves are doing all their sissy little Elf thigs that they do. :rolleyes: .... And by most people definition would be considered very beautiful..... just.....in......time..... *cracks* Sil-Marsha: Thanx Gellion - that's very kind *swooshes hair* Jan-Marien1: what did he MEAN by that... Jan-Marien2: SHUT UP JAN - he was just being Gellion!
Gellion 09-22-03, 01:55 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome :rolleyes: just.....in......time..... *cracks* Sil-Marsha: Thanx Gellion - that's very kind *swooshes hair* Jan-Marien1: what did he MEAN by that... Jan-Marien2: SHUT UP JAN - he was just being Gellion! I am really beginning to worry about you Sil.
Riggoras_44 09-22-03, 05:53 PM	Originally posted by Gellion quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome just.....in......time..... *cracks* Sil-Marsha: Thanx Gellion - that's very kind *swooshes hair* Jan-Marien1: what did he MEAN by that... Jan-Marien2: SHUT UP JAN - he was just being Gellion! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am really beginning to worry about you Sil. That's what I meant... It confuses me too :eek: Just give Sil some time. Living in Australia... I understand to what point that could get you.
Gellion 09-23-03, 09:36 PM	Bump.:)
TheJester from Winchester 09-23-03, 10:54 PM	Humans are fancy Humans are dandy Humans are grand but the only one I play doesnt come in handy.
TheJester from Winchester 09-23-03, 10:56 PM	I play a Human Jester not a handy guy in a hack and slash {which we are currently playing} i hate hack and slash plus the do some monty haul too. i like RP RP RP RP RP hehe.
Gellion 09-24-03, 11:27 PM	I find that some of my favorite fantasy worlds have mostly Humans, but some other races as well. Although i find that most of the PHB races detract from the fantasy feel for me.
Gellion 09-24-03, 11:38 PM	I wish there was a world where none of the PHB races(except for Humans), were used in a setting. Although there would be new races created as well. I am of the opinion that all of the traditional fantasy races are too overused, and have grown boring. I mean homestly how many settings with Elves and Dwarves do you need? Like i said earlier some of my favorite fantasy worlds have had mostly Humans, along with some other different races. None of which beared any resemblance to any of the PHB races. I am thinking i might start working on making such a setting, but i am not sure.
Leviath lord of barbarian 09-25-03, 04:50 PM	Sign me up, Humans have no pros or cons they have no blesses or curses no....... can't think of anything @$^#@$&@$%@^&$% NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO CURSE THESE SHORT TERM MEMORY LOSSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gellion 09-25-03, 05:38 PM	Originally posted by Leviath lord of barbarian Sign me up, Humans have no pros or cons they have no blesses or curses no....... can't think of anything @$^#@$&@$%@^&$% NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO CURSE THESE SHORT TERM MEMORY LOSSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well, you will have to wait for Kevvman to check this thread. Which he has not done in a while.:(
Silmarien Aldalome 09-25-03, 09:03 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 That's what I meant... It confuses me too :eek: Just give Sil some time. Living in Australia... I understand to what point that could get you. :rofl: :rofl: - it's......so......far.......away.......o n.......a.........plane. Honestly, takes 24 hours to get to your parts - in couped up Plane-space - OMG! It's the last 8 hours that the Air Stewards/Hostesses start turning into ..... monsters...........that.......smile..... ...too........much. And the captain - who always speaks....just.....as......you're......g oing......to.....sleep.... *cracks* Jan-Marien2: rrreeahhhhh Greetings Gellion And - g'day Leviath and The Jester - :cool: WHERE'S THREAD KEEPER!!!!! Someone PM 'im...... Sil
Kevmann 09-26-03, 03:35 PM	SORRY!!! I had my internet disconnected and I missed all the fun!!! First things first, Leviath Lord of Barbarian, you are now member #012! Welcome to the human foundation! And Sil, you are one crazy woman :)
Gellion 09-27-03, 02:43 AM	Humans>All other races
Gellion 09-28-03, 03:14 PM	:behold:
Gellion 09-28-03, 05:27 PM	Doesnt anybody like Humans?:bigeyes:
Gellion 09-28-03, 05:33 PM	300th post.:D
Silmarien Aldalome 09-28-03, 07:44 PM	Originally posted by Kevmann SORRY!!! I had my internet disconnected and I missed all the fun!!! First things first, Leviath Lord of Barbarian, you are now member #012! Welcome to the human foundation! And Sil, you are one crazy woman :) Man - I'm a man - it's Stavros - my Avatar is female only. But "crazy" is a compliment :bow: Cheers gr8 2 C U back Kevmann - Sil
zollex5 09-28-03, 11:04 PM	Originally posted by Gellion 300th post.:D He always gets the milestone posts, everywhere. Zollex :mage:
Riggoras_44 09-28-03, 11:12 PM	Kevmann, I mean the boss, I mean THE boss, is back! *Waits for Kevmann's evil laughter* *Laughs evily* Hey, Gellion, I have the same feelings about Elves and Dwarves being too overdone too. But that's not something that's beyond our grasps to achieve! Recently, I've had these two ideas for human-dedicated settings: -I'll make a low-magic campaign, it becomes so easy to lose the Elves, Dwarves and Halflings. Dragons too. Give it a dark ages feeling, with humanity trying to survive with the threats of Orcs (but with no half-orcs!), Ogres, Gargoyles (great for city settings), and also war between enemy warlords. Wizards are replaced with Battle Mages, in a world where actual knowledge and scholarships are scarce and only the powerful survive. -Steal the setting from Starcraft. Why fight orcs and fairies when humanity is under the menace of extinction from vicious and alien-like life forms? Get ready for intrincate games of aliances, double-crosses, and all-out ass kicking when making your way among two races whose's powers are balanced and only humanity is fit to steal the show and annihilate them!
Gellion 09-28-03, 11:22 PM	I am thinking of a setting where there is only Psionics. And Humans are the only race. Well the only playable race. There will still be monsturous races.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-29-03, 12:42 AM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 .....I have the same feelings about Elves and Dwarves being too overdone too. But that's not something that's beyond our grasps to achieve! Recently, I've had these two ideas for human-dedicated settings sacrilege!.... *turns - looks at Avatar Dweomer master that Sil made for ....humans-only*.......uber-uber-(if you haven't yet seen it)..... *screams* *says "who am i...i'm so confused.....* Turns To Gellion: Go Dude! Sil Zollex - GREETINGS kinsman! A high Grace though bestoweth in Human Halls.....
Riggoras_44 09-29-03, 03:56 PM	sacrilege!.... I knew you'd have your say in this, Sil :D Don't worry, I'm not that biased. I also have a setting where there are no humans, if that makes you feel better (no way I'm gonna start those cross-race wars again). But oh, wait, there aren't any Elves, Dwarves and Halflings in there either... Oh, and Zollex, feel welcome in here... Unless you bring more tamales with you this time, that is :smirk:
Asok 09-30-03, 07:40 PM	I saw this thread the other day and was bursting at the seams to post a reply. I forced myself to read the entire thing first :) Took a LOT time. Anyway, I've always liked to play human characters and I was thrilled in 3ed when there was finally a roll-playing reason for taken em. In 2ed they basically sucked as well as other games (online, whatever) . I'm so feed up with the "jack of all trades, master of none" type-casting humans have recieved. There's some of the subjects I wanted to touch on (it's a long list :)) Human Alignment: I'm wishy-washy on this one. I think that as a group (look at humans as a race - top to bottom), humans aren't nuetral. Unfortunately, I think the mob mentality is probably evil. I mean, look at all the terrorists, prejudice, and crime in the world. At the same time, I think one-on-one that humans are typical kind and well-behaved, so they are good. In the end, I can't make up my own mind entirely and stick with the default :) Human Tribes: No offense, but I'm not a fan of the sub-races. There are too many other races <cough>elf <cough> that do that and I don't really want humans going down that path. At the same time, I think for role-playing reason, tribes are great but I wouldn't change the stats. That's just me though. Human Only: I'd love to play a campaign with only humans. Truth be told, I'm sick and tired of all the variety in DnD. People are so wrapped up in the diiferent character/races/monsters, that they fail to role-play. I know not everyone RPs, but too much extras shift the focus from playing the game to playing the game mechanics. The saying "less is more" I think applies here. Also, if you read a lot of novels there is almost only humans races with an extra bad race or two thrown in for good measure. Look at "Wheel of Time", "Wizards Rules", and the "Lost Swords" series... almost enitrely human. There is more than enough variety with just humans if you flesh out the cultures of the gaming world. In fact, I've had an off-and-on project for years now where I've tried to do just that. Human Age/Wisdom: If your a LotR fan, you'll notice that the elves aren't anymore wise for all their age. It's already been touched on in this thread, but wisdom comes from experiences. Elves live a sheltered life, so how can they be so wise? Humans on the other hand, fight the world everyday and that forces wisdom down their throws (like it or not :)) at a much faster pace. Human Ambition: This has also been discussed, but I agree the humans greatest srength is the ambition as well as the greatest down fall. This has probably been beat close to death, so I'll leave it at that. Well, that's everything for now. Let me now what you think.
Gellion 09-30-03, 08:39 PM	Originally posted by Asok I saw this thread the other day and was bursting at the seams to post a reply. I forced myself to read the entire thing first :) Took a LOT time. Anyway, I've always liked to play human characters and I was thrilled in 3ed when there was finally a roll-playing reason for taken em. In 2ed they basically sucked as well as other games (online, whatever) . I'm so feed up with the "jack of all trades, master of none" type-casting humans have recieved. There's some of the subjects I wanted to touch on (it's a long list :)) Human Alignment: I'm wishy-washy on this one. I think that as a group (look at humans as a race - top to bottom), humans aren't nuetral. Unfortunately, I think the mob mentality is probably evil. I mean, look at all the terrorists, prejudice, and crime in the world. At the same time, I think one-on-one that humans are typical kind and well-behaved, so they are good. In the end, I can't make up my own mind entirely and stick with the default :) Human Tribes: No offense, but I'm not a fan of the sub-races. There are too many other races <cough>elf <cough> that do that and I don't really want humans going down that path. At the same time, I think for role-playing reason, tribes are great but I wouldn't change the stats. That's just me though. Human Only: I'd love to play a campaign with only humans. Truth be told, I'm sick and tired of all the variety in DnD. People are so wrapped up in the diiferent character/races/monsters, that they fail to role-play. I know not everyone RPs, but too much extras shift the focus from playing the game to playing the game mechanics. The saying "less is more" I think applies here. Also, if you read a lot of novels there is almost only humans races with an extra bad race or two thrown in for good measure. Look at "Wheel of Time", "Wizards Rules", and the "Lost Swords" series... almost enitrely human. There is more than enough variety with just humans if you flesh out the cultures of the gaming world. In fact, I've had an off-and-on project for years now where I've tried to do just that. Human Age/Wisdom: If your a LotR fan, you'll notice that the elves aren't anymore wise for all their age. It's already been touched on in this thread, but wisdom comes from experiences. Elves live a sheltered life, so how can they be so wise? Humans on the other hand, fight the world everyday and that forces wisdom down their throws (like it or not :)) at a much faster pace. Human Ambition: This has also been discussed, but I agree the humans greatest srength is the ambition as well as the greatest down fall. This has probably been beat close to death, so I'll leave it at that. Well, that's everything for now. Let me now what you think. I agree with most of your post.:) So, do you want to join?:D
Silmarien Aldalome 09-30-03, 09:56 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 I knew you'd have your say in this, Sil :D Don't worry, I'm not that biased. I also have a setting where there are no humans, if that makes you feel better (no way I'm gonna start those cross-race wars again). But oh, wait, there aren't any Elves, Dwarves and Halflings in there either... Oh, and Zollex, feel welcome in here... Unless you bring more tamales with you this time, that is :smirk: G'day Riggy - ;) *lucky*...... ;) Greetings Asok - welcome friend, and hello Gellion Cheers Sil
Asok 09-30-03, 10:48 PM	I've seen all the posts about joining, though in truth, I have no clue as to what it entails. If it means that I follow the thread and post replies, then sure... sign me up :) Anyway, since I like to play humans as well as the fighter class, how would everyone feel about helping create a human-only warrior PrC? I was thinking along the lines of something called Weapon Master (though if there's something already called that, like me know). Basically, it goes like this. Since humans have such strong ambitions, it stands to reason that certain warriors strive to become the best at their chosen field. The Weapon Master gives up some of her general weapon skills and focuses on a single weapon type. (This also displayed human impatience, and taken shortcuts to achieve desired results quicker). Note: Not sure where to include this, but a weapon master must choose a weapon type (obviously :)). The weapon can be any weapon that can be wielded one handed. Ranged weapons might be included later, but are out for now. Weapon Master Hit Die: d10. Requirements To qualify to become a weapon master, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Race: Human. Base Attack Bonus: +6. Skills: None (not decided yet). Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus(chosen), Weapon Specialization(chosen) Class Skills The weapon master’s class skills: Not decided yet. Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. Table: The Weapon Master Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Chosen Weapon Bonus 2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Armor Bonus 3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Greater Weapon Focus 4th +2 +1 +4 +1 Chosen Weapon Bonus 5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Chained Attacks 6th +3 +2 +5 +2 Armor Bonus 7th +4 +2 +5 +2 Chosen Weapon Bonus 8th +4 +2 +6 +2 Armor Bonus 9th +5 +3 +6 +3 Greater Weapon Specialization 10th +5 +7 +3 +3 Chosen Weapon Bonus Class Features: Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The weapon master is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, but heavy armor or shield. Chosen Weapon Bonus (Ex): When not wearing heavy armor or using a shield, the weapon master a +2 hit and damage bonus with chosen weapon at level 1, +4 at level 4, +6 at level 7, and +8 at level 10. Add Chosen Weapon Bonus with BAB when determine attacks per round. All other weapons get the same number of attacks per round as the BAB indicates. Armor Bonus (Ex): At level 2, 6, and 8 the weapon master gets an AC bonus (deflection) of +2 while using her chosen weapon. The AC bonus is only good against a single attacker using a melee attack. The weapon master must be able to see the attacker and can not be flat-footed, stunned, etc. Greater Weapon Focus: As per the regular feat, but weapon master does not need to meet the minimum requirements. Weapon master gets this for her chosen weapon only. Chained Attack (Ex): At level 5 a weapon master a chained together a string of attacks into a single move. The weapon master loses her last attacks, but the remaining attacks’ BAB are averaged together and average BAB is then used for all the remaining attacks. (Example – weapon master has three attacks at +15/+10/+5. The +5 is dropped and the +15 and +10 are averaged at 12 [12.5 rounded down]. The weapon master then makes her two remaining attacks at +12 each) Greater Weapon Specialization: As per the regular feat, but weapon master does not need to meet the minimum requirements. Weapon master gets this for her chosen weapon only. Please tell me what you think. I'm not sure if this PrC is truly balanced. The benefits are pretty good, but the negatives really hurt a fighter (lack of feats, heavy armor/shields/big weapons, and bad BAB for non-chosen weapon). In fact, I may have made it a tad too weak in an effort to curb my.... hmmm.... munchkinism :)
Gellion 09-30-03, 11:01 PM	Originally posted by Asok I've seen all the posts about joining, though in truth, I have no clue as to what it entails. If it means that I follow the thread and post replies, then sure... sign me up :) Then i guess you are our newest member. Kevmann should hopefully check this thread again soon.:)
Asok 10-01-03, 06:35 PM	Sounds good. Thanks.
zollex5 10-01-03, 08:01 PM	Originally posted by Riggoras_44 Oh, and Zollex, feel welcome in here... Unless you bring more tamales with you this time, that is :smirk: *shoves hands into pockets to hide something* Nope, nothing here. Nothing at all. Anyway, I'd be glad to help out here with discusions and such, as I need to keep busy or I will do something stupid. Zollex :mage:
Silmarien Aldalome 10-01-03, 08:19 PM	Asok - I like the idea. The PrC needs background materials, and lore to embed the idea in. I think it should begin with this: that certain warriors strive to become the best at their chosen field I will hava think on this and post some ideas in a while. *turns to foundation wanderers* Hello everyone Sil
Asok 10-02-03, 08:22 AM	You are definitely right - the PrC needs a much better background. I'll try to write something up soon (and if you or anyone else feels like posting... please do :)). Does the basic idea seem ok though? Giving up general BAB/feats/extras to focus on one weapon? I feel it goes well with the idea that humans take shortcuts to achieve their goals. Also, I'm concerned with PrC balance, so please let me know if it's too weak, too strong or just right :)
Riggoras_44 10-02-03, 09:27 AM	Hey, Asok, welcome. I hope you find a home in our foundation! I like the idea of the Weapon Master a lot (reminds me of the Blademaster from Warcraft III. Big machete! Must... have... one... like that). The class abilities are simple, yet powerful. However, I have noticed that besides the AC increase by level, the Weapon Master doesn't have any other defensive class abilities (most classes do). You'll want to consider that. I don't know what would fit in, considering the flavor of the class is all up to you.
Gellion 10-03-03, 06:37 AM	BUMP!!!!!!
Asok 10-03-03, 08:07 AM	Do you think the current armor bonus isn't enough? It gives +6 AC (deflection) against a single attacker at level 8. At the begining, I was thinking about adding Uncanny Dodge, but was afraid it would be too much. Anyway, I was looking at the duelist as a reference (it's the closest PrC to a weapon master) and I could see given the weapon master a few more defensive bonuses. I have to be careful though not to make a munchkin :) I'll think it over and post again.
Gellion 10-04-03, 01:53 AM	I know that the Netherese Arcanist is going to be an epic level PrC in the 3.5 Forgotten Realms book.:) Joneleth thinks that the spells that are banned will still be banned, but he is an Elf lover extraordinaire, so i wont take his word for it.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-04-03, 07:13 AM	Originally posted by Asok Do you think the current armor bonus isn't enough? It gives +6 AC (deflection) against a single attacker at level 8. At the begining, I was thinking about adding Uncanny Dodge, but was afraid it would be too much. Anyway, I was looking at the duelist as a reference (it's the closest PrC to a weapon master) and I could see given the weapon master a few more defensive bonuses. I have to be careful though not to make a munchkin :) I'll think it over and post again. Hey Asok - yeah - it's great! I don't see anything that overpowers it. It even seems a bit underpowered to my eye. I don't see munchkin. Maybe you could add Uncanny Dodge - even at 8th level, maybe not too concerning - (looks at Riggoras's post) - yeah, make sure it has the same number of feats or 'feat-like' items as a fighter of equal level - the comment about defensive capacity seems reasonable to me. I'll look forward to the background materials - thanx again for going to the work of writing the PrC. Looks to Gellion: I know that the Netherese Arcanist is going to be an epic level PrC in the 3.5 Forgotten Realms book. hey that's :cool: !!!!!! I can't wait to see this. Cheers Sil
Gellion 10-04-03, 08:44 PM	Despite all the uberness flying around here, i do like the luck sap type hero. The one who does not have much of anything other than luck. I know i said this earlier in the thread, but i think Humans make the best luck sap type heros. Elf:I have got Uaul'Selu'Keryth Human: I have a rock, but it may have been there yesterday.
Riggoras_44 10-05-03, 09:40 PM	Hey everyone! I was away from my house for a couple days visiting the beautiful coast cities of my country. To my greatest pleasure, I could see that they are still mostly inhabited by humans. Hey, Asok, I have this new idea for a couple original defensive abilities for your Weapon Master, and I think they fit the theme. Here they are: Touch Defense (Ex): When targeted by a touch attack, the Weapon Master may use his weapon to deflect the touch attack whenever he's wielding his chosen weapon. The Weapon Master makes a reflex save, which replaces his touch attack AC for that attack only. Ray Deflection (Ex): As Touch Defense, but this ability is extended to ranged touch attacks. If you think these defensive abilities are a little overpowering, you can always reduce them to be usable only a number of times per day. I feel these give you a greater edge against spellcasters, which are the biggest trouble for most warrior classes. If you don't like these abilities and want to keep your Weapon Master class as it is, I suggest that you just reduce the class progression to a few less levels (like 5 or 7); either way it would be fine. Sil, Gellion, nice to see you're around. See you later! :cool:
Gellion 10-05-03, 11:48 PM	I have seen the dark universe yawning Where the black planets roll without aim, Where they roll in their horror unheeded, Without knowledge or lustre or name.-"The Haunter in the Dark"-H.P. Lovecraft
Silmarien Aldalome 10-06-03, 12:36 AM	Greetings Gellion - nice post - fun. I really like them. Originally posted by Riggoras_44 Hey everyone! I was away from my house for a couple days visiting the beautiful coast cities of my country. To my greatest pleasure, I could see that they are still mostly inhabited by humans. Sound excellent - hope you're well Riggoras. I've only gotten as far as Guatemala - Tikkal - which was stunning, as was Belize. I imagine Honduras is also breathtaking. Sil, Gellion, nice to see you're around. See you later! :cool: Cheers Sil
Gellion 10-06-03, 12:56 AM	Astrophobos by H. P. Lovecraft In the Midnight heaven's burning Through the ethereal deeps afar Once I watch'd with restless yearning An alluring aureate star; Ev'ry eve aloft returning Gleaming nigh the Arctic Car. Mystic waves of beauty blended With the gorgeous golden rays Phantasies of bliss descended In a myrrh'd Elysian haze. In the lyre-born chords extended Harmonies of Lydian lays. And (thought I) lies scenes of pleasure, Where the free and blessed dwell, And each moment bears a treasure, Freighted with the lotos-spell, And there floats a liquid measure From the lute of Israfel. There (I told myself) were shining Worlds of happiness unknown, Peace and Innocence entwining By the Crowned Virtue's throne; Men of light, their thoughts refining Purer, fairer, than my own. Thus I mus'd when o'er the vision Crept a red delirious change; Hope dissolving to derision, Beauty to distortion strange; Hymnic chords in weird collision, Spectral sights in endless range.... Crimson burn'd the star of madness As behind the beams I peer'd; All was woe that seem'd but gladness Ere my gaze with Truth was sear'd; Cacodaemons, mir'd with madness, Through the fever'd flick'ring leer'd.... Now I know the fiendish fable The the golden glitter bore; Now I shun the spangled sable That I watch'd and lov'd before; But the horror, set and stable, Haunts my soul forevermore!
Asok 10-06-03, 11:12 AM	OK, I looked it over again and though about the PrC in pieces: First, ignore the "Chosen Weapon Bonus" because it offsets the overall weak BAB (only bring the chosen weapon up to normal and a little more). Second, ignore the AC bonus because that offsets not being able to use heavy armor or sheilds or two-handed weapons). That leaves three feats (GWS, GWF, and chained attack). Some basically this PrC has less feats then normal and takes a hit to general BAB without much of a bonus. I suppose I do need to add some benefits. I like what you mentioned Rag, so I included those feats. Weapon Master Hit Die: d10. Requirements To qualify to become a weapon master, a character must fulfill all the following criteria. Race: Human. Base Attack Bonus: +6. Skills: None (not decided yet). Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus(chosen), Weapon Specialization(chosen) Class Skills The weapon master?s class skills: Not decided yet. Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. Table: The Weapon Master Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +1 +0 +2 +0 Chosen Weapon Bonus 2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Armor Bonus 3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Greater Weapon Focus 4th +2 +1 +4 +1 Chosen Weapon Bonus 5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Chained Attacks, Touch Defense 6th +3 +2 +5 +2 Armor Bonus 7th +4 +2 +5 +2 Chosen Weapon Bonus 8th +4 +2 +6 +2 Armor Bonus 9th +5 +3 +6 +3 Greater Weapon Specialization 10th +5 +7 +7 +3 Chosen Weapon Bonus, Ray Deflection Class Features: Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The weapon master is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, but heavy armor or shield. At level 1, the character must pick a "Chosen Weapon". The chosen weapon must be a one-handed weapon and can not be ranged. Also, the character must have the feats "Weapon Focus" and "Weapon Specialization" for the particular weapon to choose it. Chosen Weapon Bonus (Ex): When not wearing heavy armor or using a shield, the weapon master a +2 hit and damage bonus with chosen weapon at level 1, +4 at level 4, +6 at level 7, and +8 at level 10. Add Chosen Weapon Bonus with BAB when determine attacks per round. All other weapons get the same number of attacks per round as the BAB indicates. Armor Bonus (Ex): At level 2, 6, and 8 the weapon master gets an AC bonus (deflection) of +2 while using her chosen weapon. The AC bonus is only good against a single attacker using a melee attack. The weapon master must be able to see the attacker and can not be flat-footed, stunned, etc. Greater Weapon Focus: As per the regular feat, but weapon master does not need to meet the minimum requirements. Weapon master gets this for her chosen weapon only. Chained Attack (Ex): At level 5 a weapon master a chained together a string of attacks into a single move. The weapon master loses her last attacks, but the remaining attacks? BAB are averaged together and average BAB is then used for all the remaining attacks. (Example ? weapon master has three attacks at +15/+10/+5. The +5 is dropped and the +15 and +10 are averaged at 12 [12.5 rounded down]. The weapon master then makes her two remaining attacks at +12 each) Touch Defense (Ex): At level 5, when targeted by a touch attack, the Weapon Master may use his weapon to deflect the touch attack whenever he's wielding his chosen weapon. The Weapon Master makes a reflex save, which replaces his touch attack AC for that attack only. Greater Weapon Specialization: As per the regular feat, but weapon master does not need to meet the minimum requirements. Weapon master gets this for her chosen weapon only. Ray Deflection (Ex): At level 10, as Touch Defense, but this ability is extended to ranged touch attacks. Assessment: The Weapon Master PrC has better skills and reflex than full fighter, but suffers in its BAB. Fortunately, the weapon choice BAB is not harmed and the typical fighter feats have been replaced with PrC specific feats. I don't know if the feel is the same as before though because I wanted it to be as if the character is really giving up something to be the best at a single weapon. Let me know what you all think.
Gellion 10-06-03, 06:29 PM	Hey everybody, look at this. It is an excerpt from the UnderDark sourcebook. And it has the stats for a Humans "subrace of sorts. The Deep Imaskari. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b
Silmarien Aldalome 10-06-03, 10:58 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Astrophobos by H. P. Lovecraft In the Midnight heaven's burning Through the ethereal deeps afar Once I watch'd with restless yearning An alluring aureate star; Ev'ry eve aloft returning Gleaming nigh the Arctic Car. Mystic waves of beauty blended With the gorgeous golden rays Phantasies of bliss descended In a myrrh'd Elysian haze. In the lyre-born chords extended Harmonies of Lydian lays. And (thought I) lies scenes of pleasure, Where the free and blessed dwell, And each moment bears a treasure, Freighted with the lotos-spell, And there floats a liquid measure From the lute of Israfel. There (I told myself) were shining Worlds of happiness unknown, Peace and Innocence entwining By the Crowned Virtue's throne; Men of light, their thoughts refining Purer, fairer, than my own. Thus I mus'd when o'er the vision Crept a red delirious change; Hope dissolving to derision, Beauty to distortion strange; Hymnic chords in weird collision, Spectral sights in endless range.... Crimson burn'd the star of madness As behind the beams I peer'd; All was woe that seem'd but gladness Ere my gaze with Truth was sear'd; Cacodaemons, mir'd with madness, Through the fever'd flick'ring leer'd.... Now I know the fiendish fable The the golden glitter bore; Now I shun the spangled sable That I watch'd and lov'd before; But the horror, set and stable, Haunts my soul forevermore! Beautiful ..and Unbounded Leanings - in human's bright Children - bright eyes burning - And walking forwards. Always looking into the Heavens Seeing Wonder in Undending Blendings For Men who Dream are Living Breathing Have not Forgotten Their Truer Beings Beyond Taught Limits They Burn with Greatness And Reach up Skywards With Noble Purpose
Silmarien Aldalome 10-06-03, 11:04 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Hey everybody, look at this. It is an excerpt from the UnderDrak sourcebook. And it has the stats for a Humans "subrace of sorts. The Deep Imaskari. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b The descendents of the Imaskari still live. ....... The magical seal that so long protected the kingdom of Deep Imaskar has been breached, and a few deep Imaskari have begun to wander the deep ways of the world that their ancestors fled long ago. Ahhh, how :cool: is that! Yes - *claps hands and cheers* another "rule" is broken. It's fantastic. Sounds GREAT! Cheers Gellion
Gellion 10-07-03, 09:20 PM	Revelation by H. P. Lovecraft In a vale of light and laughter, Shining 'neath the friendly sun, Where fulfilment follow'd after Ev'ry hope or dream begun; Where an Aidenn gay and glorious, Beckon'd down the winsome way; There my soul, o'er pain victorious, Laugh'd and lingered - yesterday. Green and narrow was my valley, Temper'd with a verdant shade; Sun deck'd brooklets musically Sparkled thro' each glorious glade; And at night the stars serenely Glow'd betwixt the boughs o'erhead, While Astarte, calm and queenly, Floods of fairy radiance shed. There amid the tinted bowers, Raptur'd with the opiate spell Of the grasses, ferns and flowers, Poppy, Phlox and Pimpernel, Long I lay, entranc'd and dreaming, Pleas'd with Nature's bounteous store, Till I mark'd the shaded gleaming Of the sky, and yearn'd for more. Eagerly the branches tearing, Clear'd I all the space above, Till the bolder gaze, high faring, Scann'd the naked skies of Jove; Deeps unguess'd now shone before me, Splendid beam'd the solar car; Wings of fervid fancy bore me Out beyond the farthest star. Reaching, gasping, wishing, longing For the pageant brought to sight, Vain I watch'd the gold orbs thronging Round the celestial poles of light. Madly on a moonbeam ladder Heav'ns abyss I sought to scale, Ever wiser, ever sadder, As the fruitless task would fail. Then, with futile striving sated, Veer'd my soul to earth again, Well content that I was fated For a fair, yet low domain; Pleasing thoughts of glad tomorrows, Like the blissful moments past, Lull'd to rest my transient sorrows, Stil'd my godless greed at last. But my downward glance, returning, Shrank in fright from what it spy'd; Slopes in hideous torment burning, Terror in the brooklet's tide: For the dell, of shade denuded By my desecrating hand, 'Neath the bare sky blaz'd and brooded As a lost, accursed land.
Joneleth Talshara 10-08-03, 12:02 AM	Joneleth thinks that the spells that are banned will still be banned, but he is an Elf lover extraordinaire, so i wont take his word for it. What does being an elf lover have to do with observing patterns in campaign background information? The spells that were banned will remain banned, because there is no reason for Mystra / Midnight to suddenly declare magic unpoliced and immediately get herself hit by another Karsus' avatar. She is not an idiot. Allowing true 10th, 11th and 12th level spell effects (Mavin's worldweave, create mythallar, etc) for no apparent reason is completely illogical, even for WotC.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-08-03, 05:11 AM	Originally posted by Gellion Revelation by H. P. Lovecraft In a vale of light and laughter, Shining 'neath the friendly sun, Where fulfilment follow'd after Ev'ry hope or dream begun; Where an Aidenn gay and glorious, Beckon'd down the winsome way; There my soul, o'er pain victorious, Laugh'd and lingered - yesterday. Green and narrow was my valley, Temper'd with a verdant shade; Sun deck'd brooklets musically Sparkled thro' each glorious glade; And at night the stars serenely Glow'd betwixt the boughs o'erhead, While Astarte, calm and queenly, Floods of fairy radiance shed. There amid the tinted bowers, Raptur'd with the opiate spell Of the grasses, ferns and flowers, Poppy, Phlox and Pimpernel, Long I lay, entranc'd and dreaming, Pleas'd with Nature's bounteous store, Till I mark'd the shaded gleaming Of the sky, and yearn'd for more. Eagerly the branches tearing, Clear'd I all the space above, Till the bolder gaze, high faring, Scann'd the naked skies of Jove; Deeps unguess'd now shone before me, Splendid beam'd the solar car; Wings of fervid fancy bore me Out beyond the farthest star. Reaching, gasping, wishing, longing For the pageant brought to sight, Vain I watch'd the gold orbs thronging Round the celestial poles of light. Madly on a moonbeam ladder Heav'ns abyss I sought to scale, Ever wiser, ever sadder, As the fruitless task would fail. Then, with futile striving sated, Veer'd my soul to earth again, Well content that I was fated For a fair, yet low domain; Pleasing thoughts of glad tomorrows, Like the blissful moments past, Lull'd to rest my transient sorrows, Stil'd my godless greed at last. But my downward glance, returning, Shrank in fright from what it spy'd; Slopes in hideous torment burning, Terror in the brooklet's tide: For the dell, of shade denuded By my desecrating hand, 'Neath the bare sky blaz'd and brooded As a lost, accursed land. Beautiful!! Greetings Joneleth - ...may the bindings of logic provoke your unbinding... Silmarien
Gellion 10-08-03, 06:29 AM	Originally posted by Joneleth Talshara What does being an elf lover have to do with observing patterns in campaign background information? The spells that were banned will remain banned, because there is no reason for Mystra / Midnight to suddenly declare magic unpoliced and immediately get herself hit by another Karsus' avatar. She is not an idiot. Allowing true 10th, 11th and 12th level spell effects (Mavin's worldweave, create mythallar, etc) for no apparent reason is completely illogical, even for WotC. Crap, should have edited that post.:behold: Well, welcome to the Human Foundation Joneleth, we are not really doing much right now. But please tell me what your views on Humans are.:cool:
Gellion 10-08-03, 06:51 AM	Hmmmmmm but i do wonder what the Netherese Arcanist PrC will be able to do. It is an epic level PrC after all.
Gellion 10-08-03, 07:00 AM	THis was posted by Richard Baker on the FR forum. Player's Guide to Faerun TABLE OF CONTENTS Introduction How to Use This Book in Your Campaign xx What You Need to Play xx Sidebar: What’s This Book For? xx Previous Forgotten Realms Products xx Chapter 1: Races Humans xx Human Ethnicites xx Dwarves xx Gold Dwarves xx Gray Dwarves xx Shield Dwarves xx Elves xx Drow xx Moon Elves xx Sun Elves xx Wild Elves xx Wood Elves xx Gnomes xx Deep Gnomes xx Rock Gnomes xx Halfbreeds xx Half-Elves xx Half-Orcs xx Halflings xx Ghostwise Halflings xx Lightfoot Halflings xx Strongheart Halflings xx Planetouched xx Aasimar xx Air Genasi xx Earth Genasi xx Fire Genasi xx Tiefling xx Water Genasi xx Vital Statistics xx Sidebar: Variants: Races with Level Adjustments xx Powerful Races at 1st Level xx Lesser Versions xx Chapter 2: Regions and Feats xx Character Region xx Sidebar: Why Regions Changed xx How to Choose a Region xx Region Benefits xx Regions and Skills xx Region Definitions xx Feats xx Regional Feats xx Sidebar: Regional Feats and Previously Published Material xx Arcane Preparation xx Arcane Schooling xx Artist xx Axethrower xx Blooded xx Bloodline of Fire xx Bullheaded xx Cosmopolitan xx Dauntless xx Daylight Adaptation xx Delay Spell xx Discipline xx Dreadful Wrath xx Education xx Ethran xx Fearless xx Fleet of Foot xx Foe Hunter xx Forester xx Forgeheart xx Furious Charge xx Horse Nomad xx Improved Familiar xx Innate Spell xx Inscribe Rune xx Insidious Magic xx Knifefighter xx Luck of Heroes xx Magic in the Blood xx Magical Artisan xx Magical Training xx Mercantile Background xx Militia xx Mind over Body xx Otherworldly xx Pernicious Magic xx Persistant Spell xx Portal Master xx Reactive Counterspell xx Resist Poison xx Saddleback xx Shadow Weave Magic xx Signature Spell xx Silver Palm xx Smooth Talk xx Snake Blood xx Spell Thematics xx Spellcasting Prodigy xx Spellwise xx Stormheart xx Street Smart xx Strong Soul xx Surefooted xx Survivor xx Swift and Silent xx Tattoo Focus xx Tenacious Magic xx Thug xx Thunder Twin xx Tireless xx Treetopper xx Twin Spell xx Twin Sword Style xx Sidebar: Changes to Feats from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting xx Chapter 3: Prestige Classes xx Prestige Classes for Faerűnian Characters xx Sidebar: What’s Changed in v.3.5? xx Sidebar: Behind the Curtain: Revised Prestige Classes xx Arcane Devotee xx Divine Champion xx Divine Disciple xx Divine Seeker xx Evereskan Tomb Guardian xx Eye of Horus-Re xx Hammer of Moradin xx Harper Agent xx Hathran xx Incantatrix xx Justiciar of Tyr xx Master Transmogrifist xx Monk of the Long Death xx Morninglord of Lathander xx Purple Dragon Knight xx Runecaster xx Shadow Adept xx Shadow Thief of Amn xx Shaaryan Hunter xx Spellguard of Silverymoon xx Zhentarim Spy xx Chapter 4: Domains and Spells xx Deity-Specific Spells and Initiate Feats xx Initiate of Bane xx Initiate of Cyric xx Initiate of Gond xx Initiate of Helm xx Initiate of Ilmater xx Initiate of Lathander xx Initaite of Malar xx Initiate of Mystra xx Initaite of Nature xx Initiate of Selűne xx Initaite of Tyr xx Comprehensive Spell Lists xx Assassin Spells xx Bard Spells xx Blackguard Spells xx Celebrant of Sharess Spells1xx Cleric Spells xx Cleric Domains xx Initiate Spells xx Druid Spells xx Fire Knife Assassin Spells xx Hathran Spells xx Paladin Spells xx Ranger Spells xx Sorcerer and Wizard Spells xx Spells xx Acid Storm xx Animate Dread Warrior xx Ball Lightning xx Battletide xx Black Talon xx Blinding Spittle xx Blindsight xx Bombardment xx Briartangle xx Caligarde’s Claw xx Claws of the Beast xx Cloud of Bewilderment xx Create Magic Tattoo xx Dread Blast xx Elminster’s Effulgent Epuration xx Eye of Power xx Favor of Ilmater xx Fiendform xx Fireward xx Fleshshiver xx Forceward xx Gedlee’s Electric Loop xx Glory of the Martyr xx General of Undeath xx Handfire xx Harmony xx Holy Star xx Howling Chain xx Icelance xx Inferno xx Lawful Sword xx Lightning Ring xx Lively Step xx Mace of Odo xx Manyjaws xx Mold Touch xx Moonweb xx Mystic Lash xx Mystra’s Miasma xx Nature’s Balance xx Nybor’s Gentle Reminder xx Nybor’s Mild Admonishment xx Nybor’s Stern Reproof xx Nchaser’s Glowing Orb xx Obedient Avalanche xx Pact of Martyrdom xx Possess Animal xx Presper’s Moonbow xx Prismatic Eye xx ‘ Rosemantle xx Ruby Ray of Reversal xx Shield of Lathander xx Shield of Lathander, Greater xx Shroud of Flame xx Simbul’s Spell Matrix xx Simbul’s Spell Sequencer xx Simbul’s Spell Trigger xx Skull of Secrets xx Skull Eyes xx Skull Watch xx Spectral Stag xx Spell Enhancer xx Spellmantle xx Spell Phylactery xx Spell Shield xx Stone Body xx Stone Walk xx Strength of the Beast xx Summon Undead I xx Summon Undead II xx Summon Undead III xx Summon Undead IV xx Summon Undead V xx Sunrise xx Surelife xx Sword and Hammer xx Sword and Hammerm, Greater xx Thorn Spray xx Tree Healing xx Transcribe Symbol xx Triple Mask xx Undeath after Death xx Undead Bane Weapon xx Undeath’s Eternal Foe xx Understand Device xx Vipergout xx Wall of Moonlight xx Wall of Sand xx Warning xx Wieldskill xx Chapter 5: Magic Items xx Armor Special Abilities xx Magic Armor and Shields xx Weapon Special Abilities xx Magic Weapons xx Rings xx Rods xx Staffs xx Wondrous Items xx Unique Magic Weapons xx Minor Artifacts xx Chapter 6: Monsters of Faerűn xx Baneguard xx Direguard xx Crawling Claw xx Deepspawn xx Demon, Ghour xx Dread xx Dread Warrior xx Flameskull xx Foulwing xx Giant Arachnids xx Giant Whip Scorpion xx Giant Whip Spider xx Giant Sun Spider xx Gorynych xx Helmed Horror xx Helmed Horror xx Battle Horror xx Ixzan xx Lycanthrope xx Lycanthrope, Drow Werebat xx Lycanthrope, Werecat xx Lycanthrope, Werecrocodile xx Lycanthrope, Wereshark xx Metalmaster xx Nightshade, Nighthaunt xx Nishruu xx Phaerimm xx Tomb Tapper xx Tressym xx Velvet Worm, Giant xx Chapter 7: Epic Levels in Faerűn xx Epic Prestige Classes xx Epic Eye of Horus-Re xx Epic Hammer of Moradin xx Epic Hathran xx Epic Incantatrix xx Epic Justiciar of Tyr xx Epic Master Transmogrifist xx Epic Monk of the Long Death xx Epic Morninglord of Lathander xx Epic Runecaster xx Epic Shaaryan Hunter xx Epic Shadow Adept xx Netherese Arcanist xx Spellfire Hierophant xx New Epic Feats xx Axiomatic Strike xx Chosen Weapon Specialization xx Divine Spell Penetration xx Enhance Effect xx Epic Counterspell xx Epic Devotion xx Epic Spellfire Wielder xx Improved Cooperative Metamagic xx Improved Snatch Spell xx Improved Spellpool Access xx Inscribe Eipc Rune xx New Epic Spells xx Gift of Alliance xx Glorious Light of Renewal xx Horrible Army of the Dead xx Karsus’s Avatar xx Proctiv’s Move Mountain xx Song of Enevahr xx Starshine upon the People xx Tolodine’s Killing Wind xx Chapter 8: The Cosmology of Toril xx Planar Traits xx Traveling the Planes xx Cross-Planar Features xx Random Planar Destinations xx Plane Descriptions xx The Abyss xx Arvandor xx The Barrens of Doom and Despair xx Blood Rift xx Brightwater xx Clangor xx Cynosure xx Deep Caverns xx The Demonweb Pits xx Dragon Eyrie xx Dwarfhome xx Dweomerheart xx Fated Depths xx The Fugue Plane xx Fury’s Heart xx The Gates of the Moon xx Golden Hills xx Green Fields xx Hammergrim xx Heliopolis xx The House of Knowledge xx The House of Nature xx The House of the Triad xx Jotunheim xx The Nine Hells xx Nishrek xx Shadow xx The Supreme Throne xx Warrior’s Rest xx Other Planes xx Chapter 9: Campaign Journal xx Using the Storyline in Your Game xx Recent Events xx Return of the Archwizards xx The War of the Spider Queen xx Timeline xx Plots and Rumors xx Chapter 10: Psionics, Exalted Deeds, and Vile Darkness xx Psionics in Faerűn xx Psionics and the Weave xx Psionic Organizations xx Psionic Prestige Classes xx Cognition Thief xx Exalted Deeds and Vile Darkness xx Feats xx Blessed of the Seven Sisters xx Favored of the Zulkirs xx Gift of Discernment xx Lliira’s Blessing xx Spider Bite xx Touch of Hate xx Sidebar: Vasharans and Jerrens in Faerűn xx Vile and Exalted Prestige Classes xx Black Blood Hunter xx Celebrant of Sharess xx Fire Knife Assassin xx Harper Paragon xx Maiden of Pain xx Martyred Champion of Ilmater xx Slime Lord xx Yathrinshee xx Sidebar: City of the Spider Queen and Book of Vile Darkness xx Vile and Exalted Deities xx Archfiends and Paragons xx Appendix: Monster Update xx FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting Monsters xx Monstrous Compendium: Monsters of Faerűn Monsters xx List of Tables Table 1–1: Racial Ability Adjustments xx Table 1–2: Random Starting Ages xx Table 1–3: Aging Effects xx Table 1–4: Random Height and Weight xx Table 2–1: Knowledge Regions xx Table 2–2: Dwarf Regions xx Table 2–3: Elf Regions xx Table 2–4: Gnome Regions xx Table 2–5: Half-elf Regions xx Table 2–6: Halfling Regions xx Table 2–7: Human Regions xx Table 2–8: Orc and Half-Orc Regions xx Table 2–9: Planetouched Regions xx Table 2–10: Regions for Other Races xx Table 2–11: Feats xx Table 3–1: Prestige Classes for Faerűnian Characters xx Table 3–2: The Arcane Devotee xx Table 3–3: The Divine Champion xx Table 3–4: The Divine Disciple xx Table 3–5: The Divine Seeker xx Table 3–6: The Evereskan Tomb Guardian xx Table 3–7: The Eye of Horus-Re xx Table 3–8: The Hammer of Moradin xx Table 3–9: The Harper Agent xx Table 3–10: The Hathran xx Table 3–11: The Incantatrix xx Table 3–12: The Justiciar of Tyr xx Table 3–13: The Master Transmogrifist xx Table 3–14: The Monk of the Long Death xx Table 3–15: The Morninglord of Lathander xx Table 3–16: The Purple Dragon Knight xx Table 3–17: The Runecaster xx Table 3–18: The Shaaryan Hunter xx Table 3–19: The Shadow Adept xx Table 3–20: The Shadow Thief of Amn xx Table 3–21: The Spellguard of Silverymoon xx Table 3–22: The Zhentarim Spy xx Table 7–1: The Epic Eye of Horus-Re xx Table 7–2: The Epic Hammer of Moradin xx Table 7–3: The Epic Hathran xx Table 7–4: The Epic Incantatrix xx Table 7–5: The Epic Justiciar of Tyr xx Table 7–6: The Epic Master Transmogrifist xx Table 7–7: The Epic Monk of the Long Death xx Table 7–8: The Epic Morninglord of Lathander xx Table 7–9: The Epic Runecaster xx Table 7–10: The Epic Shaaryan Hunter xx Table 7–11: The Epic Shadow Adept xx Table 7–12: The Netherese Arcanist xx Table 7–13: The Spellfire Hierophant xx Table 8–1: Random Planar Destinations xx Table 10–1: The Cognition Thief xx Table 10–2: The Black Blood Hunter xx Table 10–3: The Celebrant of Sharess xx Table 10–4: Celebrant of Sharess Spells Known xx Table 10–5: The Fire Knife Assassin xx Table 10–6: Fire Knife Assassin Spells Known xx Table 10–7: The Harper Paragon xx Table 10–8: The Maiden of Pain xx Table 10–9: The Martyred Champion of Ilmater xx Table 10–10: The Slime Lord xx Table 10–11: The Yathrinshee xx Table 10–12: Vile and Exalted Domains xx Interesting.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-08-03, 08:41 AM	Karsus Avatar ha!!!! :cool: well spotted Gellion - so much for Mystra's Ban! Cheers sil
Joneleth Talshara 10-08-03, 10:51 PM	Take this, fanboys! Mr. Baker - This might simply be baseless paranoia and probably is, but I can't resist. If Karsus' avatar is made freely available to PCs, this would throw off the campaign setting in many, many ways, to say the least. Would it be possible for you to clarify whether it's in there to illustrate a point, as in Netheril: Empire of Magic, or as an actual, castable spell? - 'Joneleth Talshara', "The Ask Richard Baker Thread", FR General, In my opinion, it's really there to illustrate the point. The Spellcraft DC is 240, so you're not going to throw it as soon as you crack 21st level. Also, the casting time is 6 hours, and the targeted deity becomes aware of the attempt as soon as you start and is free to interrupt you by any means at his/her disposal. So, you're going to have to earn it. I suppose we could have put a sentence in saying "If you go after Mystra, you'll kill all magic throughout the world for some short period of time" just to be clear, but I think it's in the book simply because it is an example of an epic spell that has been cast in Faerun before. It would seem a little, well, incomplete to not define it. - Richard Baker, "The Ask Richard Baker Thread", FR General Mwahahahaha! Victory is mine!
Gellion 10-08-03, 10:54 PM	Originally posted by Joneleth Talshara Take this, fanboys! I already read that. If you are going to be like that, then you can leave. This is the Human Foundation. We can make things as munchkinny as we want.:D
Joneleth Talshara 10-08-03, 10:57 PM	Yeah, but you conveniently forgot to post it. Simply balancing the scales. Face it. You're never going to cast that spell. The FR designers are not drooling idiots, and neither is Mystra, their avatar.
Gellion 10-08-03, 11:00 PM	Originally posted by Joneleth Talshara Yeah, but you conveniently forgot to post it. Simply balancing the scales. Face it. You're never going to cast that spell. The FR designers are not drooling idiots, and neither is Mystra, their avatar. I posted it over at the H/E Foundation. The reason being that was where Sil was making all his posts. I already know that Karsus's Avatar is not able to be cast.
Joneleth Talshara 10-08-03, 11:03 PM	I already know that Karsus's Avatar is not able to be cast. Ah. I was under the impression that you were stating that it would soon be freely castable. Apologies.
Gellion 10-08-03, 11:06 PM	Originally posted by Joneleth Talshara Ah. I was under the impression that you were stating that it would soon be freely castable. Apologies. Apology accepted.;)
Tenzhi 10-08-03, 11:15 PM	So what does this spell do, anyway? From a previous description I've read it seems that it could target ANY deity. And Rich just states what happens if you specifically target Mystra with the spell, which implies that the spell can still be cast as long as you aren't targetting Mystra.
Gellion 10-08-03, 11:19 PM	Originally posted by Tenzhi So what does this spell do, anyway? From a previous description I've read it seems that it could target ANY deity. And Rich just states what happens if you specifically target Mystra with the spell, which implies that the spell can still be cast as long as you aren't targetting Mystra. It lets you subsume the deity of your choosing. If Karsus had picked any other deity, the spell more than likely would have worked.
Joneleth Talshara 10-08-03, 11:20 PM	Yes, it can be cast. But, if the duration remains the same, it's going to take six hours to cast, and the deity in question knows you're doing it the moment you start. Let's say you try casting this on... Bahamut. The moment you begin, you're going to have a very, very angry dragon avatar staring you in the face. That is what's stopping you, it seems. Assuming that there isn't a "Mystra has forbidden this spell" line somewhere in there, which would be consistent with previous continuity.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-09-03, 08:53 PM	Yes - the key to making it happen would be to disable a Deity temporarily - by some ingenious means. No small thing - given the casting time. And - further, the Deity in question may have friends amongst other Deities, or wish to pull a favour. But, similarly - and by the same token a commonly hated Deity - well, the Pantheon would support the supplanting of the old with the new. To make it work - would require team-work amongst the pantheon. The Spellcraft DC is 240, so you're not going to throw it as soon as you crack 21st level. Also, the casting time is 6 hours, and the targeted deity becomes aware of the attempt as soon as you start and is free to interrupt you by any means at his/her disposal. So, you're going to have to earn it. Anything that can cast a DC 240 spell - well dunno about you, but I can't imagine such a character. Silmarien
Joneleth Talshara 10-09-03, 10:13 PM	Oh, believe me, it's possible. Nothing is beyond the min-maxer. I have full confidence in stating that the FR designers are not idiots.
Gellion 10-09-03, 10:33 PM	Originally posted by Joneleth Talshara Oh, believe me, it's possible. Nothing is beyond the min-maxer. For someone who claims to be such a Min/Maxer. How come you never go to the CO forums? I am sure you have some great builds.:)
Joneleth Talshara 10-10-03, 01:04 AM	For someone who claims to be such a Min/Maxer. How come you never go to the CO forums? I am sure you have some great builds. Because the CO regulars are Level 20 to my Level 10 in Min-Maxing. :D
Tenzhi 10-10-03, 02:23 AM	Originally posted by Joneleth Talshara I have full confidence in stating that the FR designers are not idiots. The very fact that they are FR designers might betray that confidence. :D
Joneleth Talshara 10-10-03, 02:34 AM	The very fact that they are FR designers might betray that confidence. Nevertheless, I'm quite certain they won't wreck their entire continuity on a whim.
Gellion 10-10-03, 06:41 AM	Originally posted by Joneleth Talshara Because the CO regulars are Level 20 to my Level 10 in Min-Maxing. :D :rofl:
Gellion 10-12-03, 12:55 AM	This is really just a :bump: But i might as well post something interesting. This is a homebrew Elder Sharn created by Mirtek here at these boards. Elder Sharn Huge Aberration Hit Dice: 52d8+260 (494 hp) Initiative: +5 (Dex) Speed: 10 ft., fly 40 ft. (perfect) AC: 30 (+5 Dex, -2 Size, +13 natural, +4 haste) Attacks: 3 claws +43 melee (or 3 Medium-size or smaller melee weapons +41 melee), 6 claws +43 melee (or 3 Medium-size or smaller melee weapons +41 melee), 3 bites +41 melee Damage: Claw 1d8+2 (or weapon +4), claw 1d8+2 (or weapon +2), bite 2d8+2 Face Reach: 10 ft. by 10 ft. / 15 ft. Special Attacks: Spellcasting levels, hex portals Special Qualities: Damage reduction 20/+9, haste, improved evasion, immunities, fixed shape, archetypal shape, regeneration 10, SR 41 Saves: Fort +22, Ref +22, Will +40 Abilities: Str 18, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 24, Cha 26 Skills: Bluff +28, Concentration +25, Diplomacy +28, Knowledge (arcana) +54, Knowledge (religion) +54, Listen +29, Scry +24, Search +24, Sense Motive +27, Spellcraft +56, Spot +29 Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Empower Spell, Epic Spell Penetration, Epic Spellcasting, Great Fortitude, Greater Spell Penetration, Improved Spell Capacity (2x sorcerer, 1x cleric), Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Maximize Spell, Multiattack, Multidexterity, Multiweapon Fighting, Spell Penetration ------------------------------------------------- Climate/Terrain: The planes, far realm, Organization: Solitary, pair, or parliament (4-48) Challenge Rating: 66 Treasure: Double coins, quadruple items Alignment: Always chaotic neutral COMBAT Spellcasting Levels: An elder sharn casts spells as a 30th level sorcerer and as a 30th level cleric. Sorcerer Spells per day: (0-11) 8/10/10/10/10/9/9/9/8/8/2/1 Cleric Spells per day: (0-10) 7/9/9/9/8/8/7/6/6/6/1 Epic Spells per day: 10 Improved Evasion (Ex): Elder Sharns have the improved evasion ability of a 10th level rogue, taking no damage on a successful Reflex save against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save and in addition take only half damage on a failed save. Regeneration: Lawful weapons, spells, and outsiders inflict normal damage on elder sharns. Any other damage regenerates at a rate of 10 hit points per round even if the elder sharn has any of his hex portals open. Rest: As Monsters of Faerun, page 77
Silmarien Aldalome 10-12-03, 01:06 AM	Thanx Gellion. looks good sil
Gellion 10-12-03, 02:24 AM	Here is a picture of Deep Imaskar. A Human city in the UnderDark. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ud_gallery/52122_CN.jpg
Silmarien Aldalome 10-12-03, 07:14 PM	Hey Gellion - great piccy! Where'dya find it? Was it the Imaskari who found or wrote the Nether Scrolls? Cheers Sil
Gellion 10-12-03, 08:06 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Hey Gellion - great piccy! Where'dya find it? Was it the Imaskari who found or wrote the Nether Scrolls? I dont think so. They used the same magic that is used in modern faerun. They are also the ones who created the Phaerimm. I found the picture at the UnderDark art gallery on this site. Although the book is not out yet, they have the art up.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-12-03, 08:24 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I dont think so. They used the same magic that is used in modern faerun. ahh, me knows little of them - just that they are referred to as "the Old Ones" and someone, I think mentioned their knowledge of Shadow Weave??? They are also the ones who created the Phaerimm. I found the picture at the UnderDark art gallery on this site. Although the book is not out yet, they have the art up. Ahh - I see - they must be pretty kick-ass Sil
Gellion 10-12-03, 09:31 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome ahh, me knows little of them - just that they are referred to as "the Old Ones" and someone, I think mentioned their knowledge of Shadow Weave??? Never heard about that.:confused:
Kain's avatar 10-12-03, 11:43 PM	You would be thinking of the Netherese, Silmarien.
Gellion 10-13-03, 12:11 AM	Originally posted by Kain's avatar You would be thinking of the Netherese, Silmarien. *Eyes go wide*A NEW PERSON!!!!!!!! WANNA JOIN!!!!!!! WANNA JOIN!!!!! WANNA JOIN!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!:bigeyes:
Kain's avatar 10-13-03, 01:08 AM	Hmmm... Do you accept Shades, decended from Netheril? Really more than human, but still human in a way... ;)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-13-03, 01:28 AM	Originally posted by Gellion *Eyes go wide*A NEW PERSON!!!!!!!! WANNA JOIN!!!!!!! WANNA JOIN!!!!! WANNA JOIN!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!:bigeyes: You gorgeous thing! *turns to Kain* Kain's Avatar hey? You must have pulled off the Karsus Avatar Spell then - and nabbed one of the Pantheon!! ;) Cheers Sil PS: Imaskari - I heard somewhere that they knew of Shadow Weave??? (It was on a thread called Shadow Weave and the Netherese Time Line - where headachy, hair splitting flamy arguments went this way and that way, until everyone's eyes popped out! Someone was using Imaskari as evidence that Shadow Weave was pre-RotA) But it's all a big mass of 10,000 posts of blur now. *sighs* Sil PS - feel welcome too at H/Elven Foundation - there's an expanding corum of us who post across Allied Foundations (Drow, Human and Half-Elven strongly allied, and other ones - more loosely - but it's all good) - and we welcome newbies. All friendly posters welcome. Post un-elfy things if you prefer - (Like the Elf-Bane, Tenzhi). Cheers Sil
Gellion 10-13-03, 01:43 AM	Originally posted by Kain's avatar Hmmm... Do you accept Shades, decended from Netheril? Really more than human, but still human in a way... ;) Sure, although you will have to wait for Kevmann to show up again.:) I hope Kevvman doesnt get mad at me for this. But consider yourself Member # 14.:)
Kain's avatar 10-13-03, 01:50 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome You gorgeous thing! *turns to Kain* Kain's Avatar hey? You must have pulled off the Karsus Avatar Spell then - and nabbed one of the Pantheon!! ;) Cheers Sil PS: Imaskari - I heard somewhere that they knew of Shadow Weave??? (It was on a thread called Shadow Weave and the Netherese Time Line - where headachy, hair splitting flamy arguments went this way and that way, until everyone's eyes popped out! Someone was using Imaskari as evidence that Shadow Weave was pre-RotA) But it's all a big mass of 10,000 posts of blur now. *sighs* Sil PS - feel welcome too at H/Elven Foundation - there's an expanding corum of us who post across Allied Foundations (Drow, Human and Half-Elven strongly allied, and other ones - more loosely - but it's all good) - and we welcome newbies. All friendly posters welcome. Post un-elfy things if you prefer - (Like the Elf-Bane, Tenzhi). Cheers Sil Hehe, Kain's Avatar was a weaker and less world shattering version of Karsus's Avatar, that my character invented. It was used once for the sole purpose of borrowing the power of a demi-god(for a few minutes) to battle a divine being on more equal terms. So, not a god... yet. :smirk: I haven't yet heard or read anywhere or in any source that the Imaskari used the Shadow Weave, but I suppose it is possible. I know supposedly the first Netherese to discover the Shadow Weave was Shadow and it says he also discover the shadow plane, but that doesn't mean someone of another group didn't discover it first... i.e. the first human to enter the plane of shadow was Malaug, which means he must have found the shadow plane first, and maybe the Shadow Weave too... who knows? PS - I will indeed join in on the other foundations from time to time. ;) Thank you for extending the hand of friendship... into the darkness of the shadows. :smirk:
Silmarien Aldalome 10-15-03, 09:06 AM	Originally posted by Kain's avatar Hehe, Kain's Avatar was a weaker and less world shattering version of Karsus's Avatar, that my character invented. It was used once for the sole purpose of borrowing the power of a demi-god(for a few minutes) to battle a divine being on more equal terms. So, not a god... yet. :smirk: I haven't yet heard or read anywhere or in any source that the Imaskari used the Shadow Weave, but I suppose it is possible. I know supposedly the first Netherese to discover the Shadow Weave was Shadow and it says he also discover the shadow plane, but that doesn't mean someone of another group didn't discover it first... i.e. the first human to enter the plane of shadow was Malaug, which means he must have found the shadow plane first, and maybe the Shadow Weave too... who knows? PS - I will indeed join in on the other foundations from time to time. ;) Thank you for extending the hand of friendship... into the darkness of the shadows. :smirk: You're welcome Kain's Avatar - Re: Shadow Weave - yes - who knows? We'll look forward to your visits. Take care Sil
Kevmann 10-15-03, 05:23 PM	I hope Kevvman doesnt get mad at me for this. But consider yourself Member # 14.:) Errr, anger not the dark lord *looks menacing* Sorry, I just havn't the time like I used to to come onto the boards. Kain's Avatar, you are now member #014, welcome to our group!
Kevmann 10-15-03, 05:33 PM	Wait a second, who is member #013???
Gellion 10-15-03, 08:01 PM	Originally posted by Kevmann Wait a second, who is member #013??? Well, Asok is supposed to be # 13, although i havent seen him in a while. I think me and Sil scared him off.:(
Asok 10-15-03, 08:36 PM	Friggin..... doh! I just had a long and well-written post lost by the evils of the Mozilla's quirky internet browser. Oh well, what can ya do? Let me just tell you though, it was a discussion on the true nature of man and its relevance to the DnD alignment system. It was quite possibly the BEST POST EVER! :) Anyway, I'm lucky number 13, I believe. Carry on :)
Asok 10-15-03, 08:38 PM	I just realized I spent over 30 minutes working on the "post that got away" because when I started it, Gellion hadn't replied yet. And yes, Gellion, you had scared me away... just kidding :)
Gellion 10-15-03, 08:52 PM	Originally posted by Asok I just had a long and well-written post lost by the evils of the Mozilla's quirky internet browser. Oh well, what can ya do? Let me just tell you though, it was a discussion on the true nature of man and its relevance to the DnD alignment system. It was quite possibly the BEST POST EVER! :) Type it again... or i'll...i'lll.i'lll... HUG YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:
Asok 10-15-03, 10:25 PM	I'll try to sum up what I said quickly. I wanted to define the human alignment as best as possible for two reasons: 1) I like humans the best of all races 2) Humans are vanilla - understand them and you can understand all other <cough>inferior<cough> races :) At any rate, I think the alignment is based on perspective. Therefore, to humans the average, normal person is neutral-neutral. This might seem like a cop out, but it makes later arguments easier. The next step is to say there is no such thing as a universal, comic constant that determines good versus bad or lawful versus chaotic. Alignment is in the eye of the beholder. This goes against DnD… I know, but it’s just my feelings. The last step is to say that a person cannot be good or bad but rather good or bad compared to another from a particular point of view (this holds for lawful or chaotic as well). For example, a paladin who comes from a cannibalistic society (an extreme example, but roll with me a sec) would not be able to use his Smite Evil attack against a person who is a cannibal because that isn’t evil in his opinion. The question, I guess, is if you all feel that this is an accurate representation of alignment or if it should be more cut-and-dry as if the official rules? If you agree, how should it be used to represent humans in general (I’m thinking about vices like greed, pride, anger, etc.)? If you don’t agree a perspective-based alignment, then why not? And of course, other comments are welcomed. That’s basically it. The first version was much better let me assure you. It had examples, diagrams, cross-referencing, flash animations… the works :) Anyway, I’ll try to expand on it some more later.
Gellion 10-15-03, 10:41 PM	I like it.:D Although, going with D&D. I would say Humans are mostly Neutral. And in general, the ones who are good, are really good. Same thing with evil. Although, like i said, i think Humans are mostly Neutral.:) Also, i know some people think Humans are too mundane. And cant see why anybody would ever play one. Well, to me, the reason i like Humans in a fantasy setting, is that they are mostly mundane. But, can do fantastic things. The mundane doing the fantastic is what really makes it fantasy for me. Which is why races like Elves tend to take away from the fantasy feel for me.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-16-03, 09:50 PM	I've only ever played a human once. If it's the right human - I can engage with the fantasy vibe. G'day Gellion Sil
Gellion 10-16-03, 10:09 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome I've only ever played a human once. If it's the right human - I can engage with the fantasy vibe. G'day Gellion Sil Hiya Sil. :) Not much going on right now, it is sort of slow.:)
Gellion 10-17-03, 10:04 PM	This was said by two different people on another forum. It is about the Deep Imaskaris. "The cliffnote version of what is in Underdark is that when they got their rears handed them, they fled the surface, found a massive huge underground chamber and sealed it off with magics so powerful that it includes a suggestion spell that makes most people who even think about the Imaskari think that they were destroyed. They lived through several upheavels of power in thier own ranks, including invasion from some of the Inner Planes. The sealed themselves off from even the inner planes then (they had portals to the inner planes before) and have been fairly peaceful for the past 600 years. Then one of em got the bright idea that it was time to see what the rest of the realms had made of themselves in the past fifteen centuries. Much debating went on and finally they cracked the seal and have start to send individual scouts and spies out into the Underdark. So paranoid are they that they exercise the location of Deep Imaskar from the Imaskari spies and scouts brains! Brutal. So anyways, they use spells and magics for almost everything. They GROW water on plants. The water beads up shaped like a fruit that can be plucked, and until poked with something sharp, maintains it shape, then when poked, it bursts into just pure water. Nifty. They are a very weak race though, most of their fighting skills have devolved into ritual dance moves. Expect them to be a push over in melee and damn potent with spells." "The Imaskar were bigbad spellcasters. One day, they decided gods weren't worthy of worship and slain their whole pantheons. Then they decided to get their work done by slaves from other planes, introducing notably the mulhorandi and untherites. They sealed off communication between the plane they took their slaves and Toril, so that their captives' gods could not help them (the mulhorandi and untherite gods were just able to send avatars, whose severance from the true deity made quasi-mortal, some of them got killed). Like all empire based on slavery, it was undone by slave rebellion. The Mulhorandi and Untherite eventually destroyed the Imaskar empire, of which nothing was left. Just a dead tongue, the Roushoum, and a large badland region, the Raurin desert. Imaskar is supposed to mean "artificer" in Roushoum. And indeed, they crafted lots of stuff. The Brown Dragons are their creation. The Phaerimm too. As well as lots of powerful-yet-ursed artifacts that lies in the dust of the Raurin desert."
Kain's avatar 10-18-03, 12:18 AM	Imaskar is supposed to mean "artificer" in Roushoum. And indeed, they crafted lots of stuff. The Brown Dragons are their creation. The Phaerimm too. As well as lots of powerful-yet-ursed artifacts that lies in the dust of the Raurin desert." Hmmm... most interesting, I just thought of something... The Scepter of Sorcerer Kings, often called the most powerful artifact ever, was created by a Netherese artificer by the name of Glaeros Lhaerimm. It was said to work much in the same way the Imaskari's magic did to block a gods access to Toril. Perhaps he found Imaskari secrets and created it? Maybe he cooperated with some Imaskari mages to create it? Maybe it was a Phaerimm in disguise that created it, using the secrets of his creators? Perhaps he was really an Imaskari posing as a Netherese, maybe the one the Phaerimm are named after? Interesting indeed...
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-03, 01:00 AM	....The Imaskar were bigbad spellcasters. One day, they decided gods weren't worthy of worship and slain their whole pantheon..... How did they do this? Thanks for the post Gellion. Sil
Gellion 10-18-03, 01:02 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome How did they do this? Thanks for the post Gellion. Sil No clue, thats just what the guy said. Although i believe Imaskar fell before Netheril even existed. So they certainly had access to epic level magic.
Kain's avatar 10-18-03, 05:46 PM	Originally posted by Gellion No clue, thats just what the guy said. Although i believe Imaskar fell before Netheril even existed. So they certainly had access to epic level magic. They may have existed a bit before Netheril, but they fell well after Netheril became a powerful nation. As I recall, they were destroyed in -2488 DR which would be 505 years after the first Netherese floating city was made, or 1,371 years after Netheril was founded and the Nether Year calendar was created.
Gellion 10-18-03, 08:25 PM	Originally posted by Kain's avatar They may have existed a bit before Netheril, but they fell well after Netheril became a powerful nation. As I recall, they were destroyed in -2488 DR which would be 505 years after the first Netherese floating city was made, or 1,371 years after Netheril was founded and the Nether Year calendar was created. Oops, thanks for correcting me.:embarrass
Kain's avatar 10-18-03, 09:26 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome How did they do this? Thanks for the post Gellion. Sil If you think about it it's not really that tough, as their power comes from worshipers, so if they stopped worshipping them, their power would fade and they would be very weak, like Divine Rank 0, and would easily fall to a nation of powerful mages.
Gellion 10-18-03, 10:59 PM	Originally posted by Kain's avatar If you think about it it's not really that tough, as their power comes from worshipers, so if they stopped worshipping them, their power would fade and they would be very weak, like Divine Rank 0, and would easily fall to a nation of powerful mages. That makes sense.:) Yay for Humans.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-18-03, 11:05 PM	G'day Gellion - just popping in between my rules-posting on Voice Avatar at H/Elven Foundation - saw your reply in my in-box. I've always found it strangely thought provoking that Gods don't exist without Worshippers. What it says to me is that mortals actually have power over their Deities, and so, all those arguments at WotC about god this squashing person that out of existence - is qualified by the Game Balance tool available to players. That is (for example) - Mystra had better take care of everyone or else she's cooked. And if she gets up too many people's noses, the Gods will help the next Karsus Avatar caster to pull it off. Cheers Sil
Gellion 10-18-03, 11:08 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome G'day Gellion - just popping in between my rules-posting on Voice Avatar at H/Elven Foundation - saw your reply in my in-box. I've always found it strangely thought provoking that Gods don't exist without Worshippers. What it says to me is that mortals actually have power over their Deities, and so, all those arguments at WotC about god this squashing person that out of existence - is qualified by the Game Balance tool available to players. That is (for example) - Mystra had better take care of everyone or else she's cooked. And if she gets up too many people's noses, the Gods will help the next Karsus Avatar caster to pull it off. Cheers Sil Yeah, all it takes is one very charismatic person to convince a bunch of people that a god is not worth worshipping.:behold:
Gellion 10-18-03, 11:33 PM	The main reason Humans appeal to me in a fantasy setting, is that i am one. And i would never want to be anything else. And like i have said many times before, the world just seems so much more fantatsic when Humans are the only race. I still dont know why it is that way for me, but it just is. To me, Humans with our ambition, can become even greater than any other race, we can even become greater than the gods themselves. That is my believe.
Gellion 10-18-03, 11:39 PM	"To accomplish great things, One must not only act but also dream, Not only plan but also believe."
Gellion 10-19-03, 12:08 AM	One reason i like the Deep Imaskaris so much, is that i believe they were right, Humans dont need gods. We dont need to bow down and worship some petty entity to gain power. We can do it ourselves. And while the Avatar Dweomer Master can become a god, they do not have to take worshippers, any true Avatar Dweomer Master would not want woshippers. They should live by the philosophy, if you want something done, you should do it yourself. Even the so called "good" deities care nothing for their followers, all they want is power. A true Avatar Dweomer Master, like i said earlier, would not grant spells, because he/she knows that Humans can achieve greatness without the help of a deity.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 02:55 AM	Originally posted by Gellion One reason i like the Deep Imaskaris so much, is that i believe they were right, Humans dont need gods. We dont need to bow down and worship some petty entity to gain power. We can do it ourselves. And while the Avatar Dweomer Master can become a god, they do not have to take worshippers, any true Avatar Dweomer Master would not want woshippers. They should live by the philosophy, if you want something done, you should do it yourself. Even the so called "good" deities care nothing for their followers, all they want is power. A true Avatar Dweomer Master, like i said earlier, would not grant spells, because he/she knows that Humasn can achieve greatness without the help of a deity. Interesting Gellion *looks up at posts* *smiles & says to self - the dude is competing.... ;)* There's a few things I want to say here. First of all, inner power is where true freedom is. So, in that sense, I agree with you. Worshipping something "external" is actually to divorce the self from life. So - inner love and power - perhaps the Journey of the Avatar Dweomer Master. In fact, it was inspired from the assumption that all humans have infinite potential - but that we grow up in cultures where people strive against each other to "defeat" each other - on the assumption that "there is not enough". But - where I have a problem with what you wrote (meaning "something to discuss" not really a "problem") is the whole "bow-down" thing. Human Pride - sometimes prevents healing and growth. Perhaps real mastery is mastery over one's own pride - where - the freedom to Bow and to Be Humble are part of the plural voice of humans. Meaning - it's got to be both: dominance and humility. Service and Leadership. All at once. I hope this doesn't sound "preachy" - I'm just enjoying the discussion here. Cheers Gellion May the Human Foundation Flourish with Infinite Posts. There are an Infinity of Posts for All Foundations. Silmarien
Gellion 10-19-03, 02:59 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome But - where I have a problem with what you wrote (meaning "something to discuss" not really a "problem") is the whole "bow-down" thing. Human Pride - sometimes prevents healing and growth. Perhaps real mastery is mastery over one's own pride - where - the freedom to Bow and to Be Humble are part of the plural voice of humans. Meaning - it's got to be both: dominance and humility. Service and Leadership. All at once. Well, i just used the bow down thing as an example. Although i do like the fact that the Deep Imaskaris found that they did not need gods to achieve the level of power they had.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:17 AM	Yes - me too. :) (to the "don't need" comment) The "god" is the "god-within" - (not meaning that in the wrong sense, or with the wrong connotations). Just that "inner radiance of life, love and everything" sort of thing. Compassion, and potency, humility and lordship. Grace, simplicity, extravagance, and change.
Gellion 10-19-03, 03:38 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Yes - me too. :) (to the "don't need" comment) The "god" is the "god-within" - (not meaning that in the wrong sense, or with the wrong connotations). Just that "inner radiance of life, love and everything" sort of thing. Compassion, and potency, humility and lordship. Grace, simplicity, extravagance, and change. Certainly.:) If there is one thing you do in life, then it should be to find someone to love and care for.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:40 AM	Am....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:41 AM	try
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:43 AM	to nab...if I can....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:44 AM	the....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:45 AM	post...that....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:46 AM	399th - and I know that gellion is gunna....
Gellion 10-19-03, 03:48 AM	400th post!!!:D
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:48 AM	400th...is this it...did Gellion sneak in....
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 03:49 AM	....I'll get you one day.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Gellion 10-19-03, 03:49 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome 400th...is this it...did Gellion sneak in.... You almost got it, i was preoccupied with other matters for a while. I was lucky i came back just in time.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-19-03, 08:04 PM	rrrrrrrr
Silmarien Aldalome 10-21-03, 01:45 AM	Resurrecting from Page 2 GELLION!! Sing us a song or something.... Sil
Gellion 10-21-03, 06:40 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Resurrecting from Page 2 GELLION!! Sing us a song or something.... Sil LALALALALALALALAALLALAALALALALALALALALAL ALALALALALALALLALALALALALALLLLALALALLALA LAALLALALALALALALALALALALALALAALALLALALA LALAALA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gadodel 10-21-03, 06:42 AM	Hey, I like this...the information herein is outstanding and relevant. Can my Half Orc get partial membership?
Gellion 10-21-03, 07:35 AM	Originally posted by Gadodel Hey, I like this...the information herein is outstanding and relevant. Can my Half Orc get partial membership? You can be a full member. Silmarien plays a Half-Elf, and she is a full member.:) Kevmann will probably come around again soon.:) Aw, hell, consider yourself member # 15.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-03, 03:58 AM	Originally posted by Gadodel Hey, I like this...the information herein is outstanding and relevant. Can my Half Orc get partial membership? Welcome & G'day Gadodel - sil
Gellion 10-22-03, 07:00 AM	Yay Sil's here again.:bounce:
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-03, 07:28 AM	Originally posted by Gellion Yay Sil's here again.:bounce: You betcha dude - hey - howzabout you lead us with something to develop here - .... :) Cheers Sil
Gellion 10-22-03, 07:34 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome You betcha dude - hey - howzabout you lead us with something to develop here - .... :) Cheers Sil As soon as i get an idea, i will post something.:)
Tenzhi 10-22-03, 08:49 AM	Originally posted by Gellion As soon as i get an idea, i will post something.:) Better hurry human, another blink or two and your lifespan will have passed. :behold:
Gellion 10-22-03, 04:29 PM	Originally posted by Tenzhi Better hurry human, another blink or two and your lifespan will have passed. :behold: I am timeless you fool.:behold:
Silmarien Aldalome 10-22-03, 07:16 PM	*looks upstream* *scratches head* puts the same Smilie - just to copy - and for no other reason... :behold:
Gellion 10-22-03, 07:59 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome *looks upstream* *scratches head* puts the same Smilie - just to copy - and for no other reason... :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: :behold: Why dont we discuss the matter i presented earlier. About Humans not needing anyone else but themselves to accomplish something. I know that you already made the Avatar Dweomer Master to somewhat represent this. But i cannot think of anything else right now.:(
Tenzhi 10-22-03, 09:06 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Abut Humans not needing anyone else but themselves to accomplish something. The three base classes that best exemplify this are: Monk, Sorceror, and godless Clerics.
Gellion 10-22-03, 09:56 PM	Originally posted by Tenzhi The three base classes that best exemplify this are: Monk, Sorceror, and godless Clerics. I have always been fond of Sorcerors and godless Clerics. I will try to think of something for Humans that deal with the two classes.
Tenzhi 10-22-03, 10:13 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I have always been fond of Sorcerors and godless Clerics. Me too. Indeed, I keep putting off a (Epic?) PrC for godless Clerics that involves building on the Divine energy found within all living beings and ascending on one's own into the Divine Ranks.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-03, 12:22 AM	OK will do! I think you are leaning on the idea of being self-contained here. On the one hand I think ....yes....important, and makes a lot of sense. We have a rich history of examples to draw on, and as Tenzhi has pointed out, several examples from D&D classes. On the other hand, I also think that no man is an island. .....lead us Gellion.... Sil
Gellion 10-23-03, 06:23 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome OK will do! I think you are leaning on the idea of being self-contained here. On the one hand I think ....yes....important, and makes a lot of sense. We have a rich history of examples to draw on, and as Tenzhi has pointed out, several examples from D&D classes. On the other hand, I also think that no man is an island. .....lead us Gellion.... Sil Well, like i have already said, Humans can acchieve great things without anybody else. What we need to figure out, is how to put this in in-game terms. That is what i am having a bit of trouble with.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-24-03, 02:27 AM	Originally posted by Gellion Well, like i have already said, Humans can acchieve great things without anybody else. What we need to figure out, is how to put this in in-game terms. That is what i am having a bit of trouble with. this is a hard one, because rules lean towards "equality" in their formulations. In old D&D - you had the upper level limits for "demi" humans, and no level limit for humans. Do you mean a "specialisation" "cosmic niche" or something else? cheers sil
Asok 10-24-03, 10:44 AM	Though it goes against "everyone can do everything" approach DnD has taken, I think it would be cool if only humans could be godless clerics. Only humans have the desire to earn their own power where other races are content to rely on gods. I haven't thought of any specific game mechanics, but I'd say that humans from any background (i.e class type) should be allowed to become godless cleric PrC. These types of clerics promote a cause instead of a god and their powers would be based on said cause. In fact, the class least likely to become a godless cleric would be a real cleric because they would have to give all their divine spells when they denounce their god. Perhaps a feat exchange can occur it this situation like when a paladin becomes a dark knight. Example 1) A ranger gives up some of his fighting skill to become more proficient at spells. His spells would be similiar to a druids, though not a powerful and no shape change. Example 2) A fighter gives up some of his fighter skills and feats and gets some spells based on war. Now that I think about it, it seems it would be ok for humans as well as have humans to be godless clerics as long as they have greater than normal ambitions. Anyway, the trick is to find a good, generic PrC that can be used equally by all classes.
Gellion 10-24-03, 09:34 PM	I also think Psions would be a great fit for a "needing nobody but yourself" kind of power. I myself prefer the Psionics are different from magic varient, so Psions are not just spell-point using mages.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-03, 12:17 AM	I think it would be cool if only humans could be godless clerics. Only humans have the desire to earn their own power where other races are content to rely on gods. I personally think this is a great idea. I like the idea of the "deity-within" - which interprets Divination/Spirituality through the lens that "humans are created in the Image of Life - and are therefore innately Deific". Also, "All of Life is God - and the creation of a Pantheon is a distortion of truth. Spiritual Energy is an Inner Force - not one fused to an external pantheon." I think the idea has merit. There are no game-balance issues, as long as the power of this cleric does not go ueber-alles other clerics. Cheers Sil Gellion - 'needing no-one' actually follows from inner-peace and self-acceptance. Also - to 'need no-one but love company' makes what you've suggested healthy. This Cleric thing here - allows for what you describe. Sil
Gellion 10-25-03, 12:28 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome I personally think this is a great idea. I like the idea of the "deity-within" - which interprets Divination/Spirituality through the lens that "humans are created in the Image of Life - and are therefore innately Deific". Also, "All of Life is God - and the creation of a Pantheon is a distortion of truth. Spiritual Energy is an Inner Force - not one fused to an external pantheon." I think the idea has merit. There are no game-balance issues, as long as the power of this cleric does not go ueber-alles other clerics. Cheers Sil Gellion - 'needing no-one' actually follows from inner-peace and self-acceptance. Also - to 'need no-one but love company' makes what you've suggested healthy. This Cleric thing here - allows for what you describe. Sil Yeah, i think this is a really good idea.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-03, 12:33 AM	*looks to Asok's post* hmmm - yes - a generic-level PrC - without diverting Asok's idea - did you mean 'normal cleric functions'? Or do you have some ideas? Cheers sil
Gellion 10-25-03, 10:43 PM	Gah, we were almost on page 2.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-03, 10:54 PM	Page 15 on my PC! Greetings Gellion
Gellion 10-25-03, 10:56 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Page 15 on my PC! Greetings Gellion I mean we were almost bumped down to page 2.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-25-03, 11:01 PM	...page two - that Quagmire of Invisibility - the Pages of Despair, the Vaults of the Abyss, the Loss of Light, the Seldom Seen, the Vanishing Hope.......
Gellion 10-26-03, 04:02 AM	From what i have seen, it takes Asok a while to reply. So it might be a while before he does.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-26-03, 04:15 AM	Well then - shall we do some development work then my friend Gellion? - that clericy thing needs building.... stavros
Gellion 10-26-03, 04:19 AM	Well, i wanted to wait for Asok on this. I dont want to infringe on his ideas. Although i do have a question for him. It seems this PrC was meant mainly for non-Clerics to take. But would an actual godless Cleric get any benifit from it?
Asok 10-26-03, 05:09 PM	Hmm.... I'm back again and I'm wondering what it was exactly you were hoping I would do? Gellion, you though of the godless cleric idea, so don't worry about hurting my feelings if I'm not around. Anyway, here are my general ideas for a godless cleric PrC. 1) No minimum requirements other than 13 wisdom (maybe higher) and at least half-human race. 2) Character gets access to as many divine spells per day as would a cleric of equal level. 3) Character does not have access to quite as many spells as would normal cleric such as resurrection. Perhaps all healing spells work at a level or two lower than normal. 4) No turn undead feats 5) Character has all BAB, saves, etc. as a normal cleric. 6) Character chooses a specialty of martial, arcane, or technical skills depending on the background of the character (i.e. fighter, wizard, or bard respectively). These specialties give the character a bonus for in that field corresponding to the character’s use of “inner-power.” I have no clear idea as to what to make-up the bonus exactly. That’s about it for now. Though the PrC obviously hasn’t been fleshed out, it seems to me that taken that it should create a character with equal strength to a multi-classed level 10 whatever / level 10 cleric.
Gellion 10-26-03, 05:24 PM	Originally posted by Asok Hmm.... I'm back again and I'm wondering what it was exactly you were hoping I would do? Gellion, you though of the godless cleric idea, so don't worry about hurting my feelings if I'm not around. Anyway, here are my general ideas for a godless cleric PrC. 1) No minimum requirements other than 13 wisdom (maybe higher) and at least half-human race. 2) Character gets access to as many divine spells per day as would a cleric of equal level. 3) Character does not have access to quite as many spells as would normal cleric such as resurrection. Perhaps all healing spells work at a level or two lower than normal. 4) No turn undead feats 5) Character has all BAB, saves, etc. as a normal cleric. 6) Character chooses a specialty of martial, arcane, or technical skills depending on the background of the character (i.e. fighter, wizard, or bard respectively). These specialties give the character a bonus for in that field corresponding to the character’s use of “inner-power.” I have no clear idea as to what to make-up the bonus exactly. That’s about it for now. Though the PrC obviously hasn’t been fleshed out, it seems to me that taken that it should create a character with equal strength to a multi-classed level 10 whatever / level 10 cleric. Everything seems good, except for number one, it would be better if only "pure" Humans had access to it. This is the Human Foundation not the Half-Elf or Half-Orc Foundation.
Gellion 10-27-03, 09:15 PM	:bump:
Gellion 10-28-03, 07:28 PM	I have an idea! How about a Human Domain for Clerics. It could be for godless Human clerics who believe in Humanity. Only problem is, it looks somehat like this right now.:( Human Domain Granted Power? 1.? 2.? 3.? 4.? 5.? 6.? 7.? 8.? 9.?
Silmarien Aldalome 10-28-03, 09:57 PM	G'day Gellion - Me needs to think about this - and will be sure to return..... cheers sil
Gellion 10-28-03, 10:12 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome G'day Gellion - Me needs to think about this - and will be sure to return..... cheers sil Hiya Sil.:)
Kain's avatar 10-28-03, 10:21 PM	Well, if you want to keep in the general D&D theme for humans, they would probably have a domain power that granted versatility/adaptiblity somehow, I'm not sure what would do that... more skill points and feats do, but that's already in the humans racial stuff and seems a bit bland. Maybe something like untrained skills count as trained when used? I don't know, its a tough call. Wasn't there a Elf domain somewhere? Does anyone know where, so we can get some ideas? Spells, I'd say some universal type spells should be in there, like maybe Limited Wish at 7th, but not wish at 9th, that would be a bit too powerful I think. Maybe Endure Elements for 1st, because it mimicks climate adaptation? Humans like learning so maybe Analyze Dweomer or Legend Lore for 6th? Anyone else?
Gellion 10-28-03, 10:58 PM	Well i have considered Tongues for the third level slot, but Clerics already get that spell as a fourth level spell. The reason for Tongues being that Humans tend to have a lot of different languages.
Gellion 10-29-03, 09:43 PM	Maybe the power could let you get +20 to any one skill check for the day? Hmmm this is tough, i cant think of anything good.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-30-03, 08:03 PM	....they would probably have a domain power that granted versatility/adaptiblity somehow, I'm not sure what would do that... E.g. the Formless Cleric Domain Some sort of "raw Divine Power" that is like "plastasine" (metaphor only) - perhaps an Aura that is "Living" and adapts itself to Need-in-the-moment, with Duration, and all the buzz. hmmmm.....
Gellion 10-30-03, 08:31 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome E.g. the Formless Cleric Domain Some sort of "raw Divine Power" that is like "plastasine" (metaphor only) - perhaps an Aura that is "Living" and adapts itself to Need-in-the-moment, with Duration, and all the buzz. hmmmm..... Maybe the "raw Divine Power" could be an extension of the Humans will and ambition? I dont know i am just throwing some ideas out right now. I do like what you have said though.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-30-03, 10:02 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Maybe the "raw Divine Power" could be an extension of the Humans will and ambition? I dont know i am just throwing some ideas out right now. I do like what you have said though.:) OK - "raw Divine Power" - not invested into a Deity in the external environment. Gellion - because this is an "inner-power" thing - what do you think of "raw Diving Power" as an intention of Will (c.f. extension) of will. By intension - the Inward Focus of Divine Energy - and then subsequent "manifestation" of Spiritual Propulsion systems. The end result is a "manifestation" but the latter pathway recognises the human's capacity to "find the answers within" and "make it happen". This model - recognises will and ambition - Do you buy? If not - please direct me - this is Human Lands - I'm happy to do this the same way we did the Avatar Dweomer Master. Human is as Human Does :bow: your servant Silmarien
Gellion 10-30-03, 10:28 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome OK - "raw Divine Power" - not invested into a Deity in the external environment. Gellion - because this is an "inner-power" thing - what do you think of "raw Diving Power" as an intention of Will (c.f. extension) of will. By intension - the Inward Focus of Divine Energy - and then subsequent "manifestation" of Spiritual Propulsion systems. The end result is a "manifestation" but the latter pathway recognises the human's capacity to "find the answers within" and "make it happen". This model - recognises will and ambition - Do you buy? If not - please direct me - this is Human Lands - I'm happy to do this the same way we did the Avatar Dweomer Master. It all sounds good. We need to flesh this out a bit more, but it is off to a good start.:) I would also suggest that this ability be a personal thing unique to each Human. However it would always be out of will and ambition regardless of the Human who is using it. Hmmmmmmmmm I will post more ideas as i get them.:)
Gellion 11-01-03, 03:38 PM	:bump:
Kevmann 11-02-03, 08:12 AM	ACK I have been down on my duties again! *smacks self on head* But oh well, better late then never... Gadodel, you are now member #015 WELCOME TO THE HUMAN FOUNDATION I am sure you will feel everying as accomidating, feel free to enter into the conversation at any time. ALSO I realy like what I am reading here, I love the information and thought on the old Nethrese empire, which happens to be one of my favorite "fallen" empires of the D&D game. I wonder, did they make a Nethrese prc or is it just my imagination? Great job folks, keep up the good work!
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 03:08 PM	The Elf Foundation would like to request that our two foundations have a joint discussion about present-day (1372 DR) issues facing the combined forces of the Tel'Quessir and the human races. Please let me know where you want to hold this meeting. :D By the way, I have started the Harper Foundation (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125636), and as you know, many humans are harpers. Please, you who harp, consider joining. (PS: There are still eight slots left for the first eight people to sign up. They will get the titles of High Harper for their dedication and swiftness!) Spread the word of Those Who Harp, N'Tel'Quess!
Gellion 11-02-03, 03:25 PM	What forum is the Harper Foundation on? My computer is being stubborn, and so the link wont work for me.:( And i am too lazy to search through a bunch of forums.:bounce:
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 03:45 PM	The Harper Foundation is under Faerunian Organizations, or check my signature.
Gellion 11-02-03, 03:49 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia The Harper Foundation is under Faerunian Organizations, or check my signature. Yeah, i sort of already found it:bounce:
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 04:19 PM	PS: Gellion, in your sig, the quote by Auron is also one of my favorites. Be free of pain, N'Tel'Quess, or live and fight your sorrows. (PS: Join the Harper Foundation! We still need seven High harpers to form the ruling council of the Foundation. Find us at Faerunian Organizations or check my sig.)
Gellion 11-02-03, 04:27 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia PS: Gellion, in your sig, the quote by Auron is also one of my favorites. YAY!!!!!!:bounce:
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-03, 07:26 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia PS: Gellion, in your sig, the quote by Auron is also one of my favorites. Be free of pain, N'Tel'Quess, or live and fight your sorrows. (PS: Join the Harper Foundation! We still need seven High harpers to form the ruling council of the Foundation. Find us at Faerunian Organizations or check my sig.) Greetings Aravilar - welcome to Human Lands....we're building a godless cleric as another PrC - if you have any ideas, please help us out. cheers sil
Gellion 11-02-03, 07:30 PM	I would also reccomend taking a look at the Avatar Dweomer Master, if you are on the default setting of posts per page. It should be on page nine.
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 07:34 PM	Dear kevmann: I would like to join the Human Foundation as an honorary member to promote the bonds of trust between elves and humans. Mystra (yet another one of my human connections, and my selected deity) knows that we have had our differences in the past, and through these bonds do I propose the most humble of alliances. PS: To all members of the Human Foundation: Join the Harper Foundation! There are still six slots left (one is pending for Sil) for the High Harpers, who will be the ruling council for the board. We are trying to promote good relations between humans, elves, and half-elves (with the dwarves and gnomes being my next propaganda targets). High Harper appointments are on a first-come first-servfe basis, with honorary appointments available to qualified users.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-03, 07:49 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Dear kevmann: I would like to join the Human Foundation as an honorary member to promote the bonds of trust between elves and humans. Mystra (yet another one of my human connections, and my selected deity) knows that we have had our differences in the past, and through these bonds do I propose the most humble of alliances. PS: To all members of the Human Foundation: Join the Harper Foundation! There are still six slots left (one is pending for Sil) for the High Harpers, who will be the ruling council for the board. We are trying to promote good relations between humans, elves, and half-elves (with the dwarves and gnomes being my next propaganda targets). High Harper appointments are on a first-come first-servfe basis, with honorary appointments available to qualified users. All right - I'll do it! "High Haper-ess" thank you (ps you'd better learn now that my avatar is fem, but I'm stavros. Cheers sil GREETINGS GELLION!
Gellion 11-02-03, 07:52 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome All right - I'll do it! "High Haper-ess" thank you (ps you'd better learn now that my avatar is fem, but I'm stavros. Yeah, when i first found out Sil was a guy, i was like this. :uh-huh: Hiya Sil.:)
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 08:13 PM	Silmarien Aldalome is now the fifth High Harper. There are only five High Harper positions left. I will now limit the applicants to the leaders of the foundation of the races because we need to have a good representation of the peoples of the Realms. The standings are now as follows: #00001 Taeleraed_Saahdel (currently has not replied) #00002 Aravilar_Holistacia #00003 Gellion #00004 Mr. Waesel #00005 Silmarien Aldalome
Gellion 11-02-03, 09:48 PM	Well, after we claer up this whole Harper business. Lets get bac to working on that godless Cleric PrC. And possibly the Human Domain. I have been bogged down by school again lately. But i will try to come up with something in my spare time.
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 09:52 PM	For a godless cleric, theoretically, in the core D&D game, you would not need a PrC. You can worship an alignment or philosophy, such as a cleric specializing in the Lawful domain. I claim to know nothing about clerics: I have always been, and always will be, a mage.
The Gray 11-02-03, 09:54 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Yeah, when i first found out Sil was a guy, i was like this. :uh-huh: Hiya Sil.:) Sil's a guy?! Are there ANY women on the boards, or are they all just men masquerading as women? Am I a guy?!
Gellion 11-02-03, 09:56 PM	Originally posted by The Gray Sil's a guy?! Are there ANY women on the boards, or are they all just men masquerading as women? Am I a guy?! Yep, Sils a guy. Of course we all still love him.:) And i dont know about you, maybe you are an "it".:D
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 10:10 PM	Originally posted by Gellion And i dont know about you, maybe you are an "it".:D Geez, Gellion, why be so rough with the newcomer? Anyway, back to my neverending task: promotion of the Harper Foundation! :mage:
Gellion 11-02-03, 10:15 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Geez, Gellion, why be so rough with the newcomer? I have known The Gray for quite a while.:D
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 10:18 PM	Yea Gell, then I guess The Gray is in good hands with you :rolleyes: . Well, back to my neverending job! :mage:
Gellion 11-02-03, 10:21 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Yea Gell, then I guess The Gray is in good hands with you :rolleyes: . :devil:
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 10:25 PM	What are your opinions on a godless cleric, Gell?
Gellion 11-02-03, 10:27 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia What are your opinions on a godless cleric, Gell? I was the one who came up with the idea of a godless Cleric PrC for Humans. :D
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 10:30 PM	So, how would such a PrC function? Where would the cleric's spells be granted from/by?
Gellion 11-02-03, 10:33 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia So, how would such a PrC function? Where would the cleric's spells be granted from/by? Their spells would come from their own inner power. Their believe in themselves. As well as from Human will and ambition. I want to sort of base it off of the idea of the only thing you need in life is to find somebody to love. Basically, needing no one, but loving company.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-03, 10:38 PM	*sees Gellion's post* mmmhhmmm - i've been thinking about this. the 'godless' cleric may tap into the "divine-field-of-power" that is actually "everywhere and no-where" all at once. Sorta like an 'overlay' on Raw Magic. Perhaps a "divine-weave" in any case - glorification of deities is the 'personification' of "godly" energy. And thereby making a "middle man" in the diety. This is to 'bleed' power into the external world. A godless cleric recognises the intension of Inward Sight as the vehicle to radiate a "divine manifestation". Within the Heart and Mind's Eye of the Godless Cleric is the Holy Radiance of Life and the "Divine-Weave" - power and love raw and accessible - ever present and ever radiant. This Inner Radiance transcends all inner polarities and inner dialogues. It is the Unifying Force that the Godless Cleric is eternally in touch with. From this - is provoked Transcendence of Self - and thereby Transcendence of Environment. Gellion's suggestions for "powers" (see posts above) seem to recognise the lattitude of the PrC/Class. But we need to think about how this variant of Cleric actually manifests magic more.. silmarien
Gellion 11-02-03, 10:43 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome *sees Gellion's post* mmmhhmmm - i've been thinking about this. the 'godless' cleric may tap into the "divine-field-of-power" that is actually "everywhere and no-where" all at once. Sorta like an 'overlay' on Raw Magic. Perhaps a "divine-weave" in any case - glorification of deities is the 'personification' of "godly" energy. And thereby making a "middle man" in the diety. This is to 'bleed' power into the external world. A godless cleric recognises the intension of Inward Sight as the vehicle to radiate a "divine manifestation". Within the Heart and Mind's Eye of the Godless Cleric is the Holy Radiance of Life and the "Divine-Weave" - power and love raw and accessible - ever present and ever radiant. This Inner Radiance transcends all inner polarities and inner dialogues. It is the Unifying Force that the Godless Cleric is eternally in touch with. From this - is provoked Transcendence of Self - and thereby Transcendence of Environment. Gellion's suggestions for "powers" (see posts above) seem to recognise the lattitude of the PrC/Class. But we need to think about how this variant of Cleric actually manifests magic more.. silmarien :bigeyes: Wow that was more than i was expecting. I love your posts Sil.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-03, 10:44 PM	you honour me - so i reflect the honour back at you. you deserve no less, and i am not greater or lesser than you. i need your suggestions about power's "form" - do we copy existing Domains....or....do....you....wanna..... make some NEW ones???? :) sil
Gellion 11-02-03, 10:48 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome you honour me - so i reflect the honour back at you. you deserve no less, and i am not greater or lesser than you. i need your suggestions about power's "form" - do we copy existing Domains....or....do....you....wanna..... make some NEW ones???? :) sil Well, there is the Human Domain that needs to be made. Although i am still banging my head against the wall to figure out a Domain power for it.
Gellion 11-02-03, 10:51 PM	When i get the time to write it down on paper(yes, i prefer paper). I will see what i can get. *Continues banging his head on the wall for ideas*
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 10:53 PM	Hmmm... You are correct, of course. The Human domain would be necessary. My first thought, of course, was, "What god would have that?" but then I smacked myself and said, "God-less Cleric!" Hmmm...
Gellion 11-02-03, 10:55 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Hmmm... You are correct, of course. The Human domain would be necessary. My first thought, of course, was, "What god would have that?" but then I smacked myself and said, "God-less Cleric!" Hmmm... On a somewhat related note, have you seen the Avatar Dweomer Master that Sil made for this foundation? It should be on page nine if you have the default nuumber of posts per page.
The Gray 11-02-03, 10:56 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Yep, Sils a guy. Of course we all still love him.:) And i dont know about you, maybe you are an "it".:D I prefer to refer to myself as "objectine in gender." But otherwise that's my only thing in common with, oh, say, a chair. Oh, and my opinion on godless clerics--I think they're fine without a prestige class, as long as they worship something. Cleric: I am a CLERIC!!!! Peasant: Who's yer god, then? Cleric: . . . Who cares, I got the uberness. TASTE DIVINE WRATH!!! Anywho, see my thread in the Deities & Demigods boards on Forces and Philosophies for ideas on things for people to not-god-worship, and others' thoughts on it.
Gellion 11-02-03, 11:02 PM	Originally posted by The Gray Cleric: I am a CLERIC!!!! Peasant: Who's yer god, then? Cleric: . . . Who cares, I got the uberness. TASTE DIVINE WRATH!!! :rofl:
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 11:08 PM	The Avatar Dweomer Master is now my new PrC!!! I am not worthy, Lord Sil! :bow: :bow: :bow: Yes, Gell, I have now seen it. That PrC is quite the epitome of uber-powerful. But is there really a prereq to be human? :( My elf will be quite displeased :( :( :( . oh well, when i make the PrC Elven High Mage I will be happier! Back to the cleric! BTW, its 23:07 EST, and there is such a thing as real-life and school tomorrow. I will catch up with you guys tomorrow. Watch out for The Gray -- it's out there, somewhere. Remember, spread the word of Those Who Harp!
Gellion 11-02-03, 11:09 PM	I am afraid i must be going now. I have business to attend to. I will post again as soon as i can.
Gellion 11-02-03, 11:10 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Yes, Gell, I have now seen it. That PrC is quite the epitome of uber-powerful. But is there really a prereq to be human? :( Yes, you must be Human. It was made to show the epitome of Human potential. Okay, i am really going now.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-02-03, 11:17 PM	Avatar Dweomer Master=fun thing to build - it was a real joy to create. Gellion and I bounced ideas this way and that.... Godless Cleric Some ideas: spells/spell-like abilities: 1. Morphology Domain (emphasises "transformation" and "manifestation") 2. Matter Domain 3. Synergy Domain 4. Transcendence Domain 5. Mastery over Ordinary Deities Immunities: 1. Spells cast by ordinary cleric (or bonuses to saves) 2. Immunity to Command by normal Deities prerequisites: 1. Human blood. (although - an equivalent for other races could be conceived) 2. Transformation by Humility 3. Great Existential Suffering at some point 4. Will - and experiences that foster Will - or Will-Like Feats 5. Insight - or skills and feats that encourage "True-Seeing" (spell True-Seeing as prereq maybe). ......
aravilar_holistacia 11-02-03, 11:32 PM	I figured that I could live tomorrow. As you were saying, orginally posted by Silmarien Aldalome prerequisites: 1. Human blood. (although - an equivalent for other races could be conceived) equivalent, huh? i like that Trancedence Domain :angel: sounds like a fun thing to develop. any ideas on that?
Gellion 11-03-03, 05:38 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome 1. Human blood. (although - an equivalent for other races could be conceived) Change this to must be Human. Like i said earlier, this is the Human Foundation. Not the Half-Elf or Half-Orc Foundation.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-03, 06:20 AM	Originally posted by Gellion Change this to must be Human. Like i said earlier, this is the Human Foundation. Not the Half-Elf or Half-Orc Foundation. Ouch! In the spirit of fairness - I think you're overemphasising the "human-only" here Gellion - i've known you long enought to say so. However, I'm not going to fight you for this - I'm not invested in the outcome. But i will say that it is perhaps drawing a long bow to exclude other races from godless-casting. In my view - the human "blood" element - recognises your wish - that it is the human part that does this. Also - spirituality is a trans-racial concept - Your Servant Silmarien
Gellion 11-03-03, 06:25 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Ouch! In the spirit of fairness - I think you're overemphasising the "human-only" here Gellion - i've known you long enought to say so. However, I'm not going to fight you for this - I'm not invested in the outcome. But i will say that it is perhaps drawing a long bow to exclude other races from godless-casting. In my view - the human "blood" element - recognises your wish - that it is the human part that does this. Also - spirituality is a trans-racial concept - Your Servant Silmarien Sorry Sil, but i like my PrCs to be Human only. This PrC is even very important to me. Ummmm, now i just need to go find all the ideas for this PrC posted across the different foundations and compile them to someplace i can read.:D
aravilar_holistacia 11-03-03, 06:10 PM	With Taeleraed's recent enlistment, we have now completed the High Harpers council members. As of 1735 EST, Nov-03-03, the standings are as follows: <*High Harper Council*> 00001 Aravilar Holistacia, Founding High Harper 00002 Taeleraed Saahdel, Founding High Harper of Jest 00003 Gellion, High Harper of Elves, pro tempore 00004 Mr. Waesel, High Harper of Star Elves 00005 Silmarien Aldalome, High Harper of Half-Elves 00006 SwordMaster, High Harper of Gnomes (pending) 00007 Ouroboros, High Harper of Dwarves (pending) 00008 Kevmann, High Harper of Humans (pending) 00009 anglar, High Harper of Drow 00010 Kuje31, High Harper of History <Harpers> 00011 Finglas Leaflock, Harper 00012 Orcy The Green Wonder, Harper 00013 baerdith, Harper 00014 Yokinobu, Harper 00015 KRONOS, Harper 00016 Tai Khan, Harper We will now accept applications for the standard Harpers. Post to Harper Foundation: check my sig.
Gellion 11-03-03, 06:10 PM	I hope i did not hurt any feelings. Like i said, i would just like this PrC to be Human only.:)
Gellion 11-03-03, 06:16 PM	I grew up on video game RPGs. I have noticed how a lot you here here often denounce games like the Final Fantasy series. Or just say something is too video-gamey. Well, i into D&D during 3E. So i have not been playing long. And i know my opinion of fantasy settings is influenced by many video games RPGs. The first ever video game RPG i ever played and beat myself was Final Fantasy 9. I am not sure how many of you here have ever played it, but to me, THAT was fantasy. With cities like Alexandria, and Lindblum, or even Treno, the city of the night. Or Terra, and the city of Bran Bal. Even earlier i remember watching my older brother make his way through Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete. Even though i did not play it, the game, and world invoked such a sense of wonder in me. I am not quite sure why i went on this little tangent, but i just sort of wanted to let everybody know, that video game RPGS were what i grew up on, and that they can just be as fantastic, and have just as good plots as P&P games. I guess i just had to get my feelings about the issue out in the open. I originally posted this on another forum, but i just wanted to post it here too.:)
aravilar_holistacia 11-03-03, 06:26 PM	Originally by Gellion The first ever video game RPG i ever played and beat myself was Final Fantasy 9. I am not sure how many of you here have ever played it, but to me, THAT was fantasy. With cities like Alexandria, and Lindblum, or even Treno, the city of the night. Or Terra, and the city of Bran Bal. Exactly, Gell. I have also beaten FF 9 (as well as 3, 7, 8, and 10) and you are right: the places that we meet in video games impress on us a great deal. By the way, Sil's on now.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-03, 06:46 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I hope i did not hurt any feelings. Like i said, i would just like this PrC to be Human only.:) You did - but it isn't serious - minor. I'm struggling to justify one-race-only items - and have had the same struggle with myself at the Half-Elven Foundation. I'm concerned that we may foster the wrong message when we make something that is racially "exclusive". We don't want to make the Aryan race. So - I won't promise you that I won't adapt this PrC to other uses - for other races (elswhere) - but I will promise you that I will be guided by your needs for it here at the human foundation. I apologise if I sound hard-nosed. Even earlier i remember watching my older brother make his way through Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete. Even though i did not play it, the game, and world invoked such a sense of wonder in me. Stav says "ahhhhh - now I understand you a bit better!" This makes a lot of sense - may your World forever resound with the magic of the things you find magical Your Servant Silmarien PS - greetings avarilar!
aravilar_holistacia 11-03-03, 06:54 PM	race-specific items wouldn't work well in a campaign with a lot of that race, so they would be rare artifacts for other race-based campaigns What's up, Sil?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-03, 07:02 PM	Some ideas: I've added two Domains - please feel free to modify Gellion - I need your guidance on the 'flavour' you want for this thing. This is a Gift for you - so use your Voice. spells/spell-like abilities: 1. Morphology Domain (emphasises "transformation" and "manifestation") 2. Matter Domain 3. Synergy Domain 4. Transcendence Domain 5. Mastery over Ordinary Deities 6. Empathy 7. Resilience Immunities: 1. Spells cast by ordinary cleric (or bonuses to saves) 2. Immunity to Command by normal Deities prerequisites: 1. Human only. (although - an equivalent for other races could be conceived) 2. Transformation by Humility 3. Great Existential Suffering at some point 4. Will - and experiences that foster Will - or Will-Like Feats 5. Insight - or skills and feats that encourage "True-Seeing" (spell True-Seeing as prereq maybe). ...... [/B][/QUOTE]
Gellion 11-03-03, 07:07 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome You did - but it isn't serious - minor. I'm struggling to justify one-race-only items - and have had the same struggle with myself at the Half-Elven Foundation. I'm concerned that we may foster the wrong message when we make something that is racially "exclusive". We don't want to make the Aryan race. So - I won't promise you that I won't adapt this PrC to other uses - for other races (elswhere) - but I will promise you that I will be guided by your needs for it here at the human foundation. I apologise if I sound hard-nosed. Stav says "ahhhhh - now I understand you a bit better!" This makes a lot of sense - may your World forever resound with the magic of the things you find magical Your Servant Silmarien PS - greetings avarilar! Im sorry that i hurt your feelings. Wanna hug?:bigeyes: And have you ever played Lunar:Silver Star Story Complete?
aravilar_holistacia 11-03-03, 07:09 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Im sorry that i hurt your feelings. Wanna hug?:bigeyes: And have you ever played Lunar:Silver Star Story Complete? nope, gell, i haven't. but FF7-10? YES! i'm getting 10-2 sooner than i think... i think. what's lunar about?
Gellion 11-03-03, 07:11 PM	500th post!!!:D
Gellion 11-03-03, 07:12 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia what's lunar about? Hard to explain, but it is probably my favorite video game RPG of all time.:) And that question was directed at Sil.:D
Gellion 11-03-03, 07:46 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Some ideas: I've added two Domains - please feel free to modify Gellion - I need your guidance on the 'flavour' you want for this thing. This is a Gift for you - so use your Voice. spells/spell-like abilities: 1. Morphology Domain (emphasises "transformation" and "manifestation") 2. Matter Domain 3. Synergy Domain 4. Transcendence Domain 5. Mastery over Ordinary Deities 6. Empathy 7. Resilience Immunities: 1. Spells cast by ordinary cleric (or bonuses to saves) 2. Immunity to Command by normal Deities prerequisites: 1. Human only. (although - an equivalent for other races could be conceived) 2. Transformation by Humility 3. Great Existential Suffering at some point 4. Will - and experiences that foster Will - or Will-Like Feats 5. Insight - or skills and feats that encourage "True-Seeing" (spell True-Seeing as prereq maybe). ...... [/B][/QUOTE] Its all very nice, but under the domain, it seems like you list more domains. Are they domains, or spells? And if they are either, i assume they need more fleshing out?
Gellion 11-03-03, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome So - I won't promise you that I won't adapt this PrC to other uses - for other races (elswhere) - but I will promise you that I will be guided by your needs for it here at the human foundation You sort of helped me a lot with the idea, and all. But this is really special to me, i guess it is because, well i admit. I am putting a lot of my real-life thoughts and believes into this. And it would sort of cheapen them to be used elsewhere. But i cannot stop you.
Gellion 11-03-03, 08:16 PM	Lanabho, nairhe ai au'vhe. Fhi'nairhe sa'omakhrono ai au'vhe. Sith akhairhe'le ai au'ya.
Gellion 11-03-03, 09:29 PM	The Story of Kelmor and the Mind Flayers Kelmor remembered crystal weapons resonate strange headaches that can cause people to Breathe heavyly in caves while digging for buried dorjes That enhance other powers in various cities guild members but not During menopause. Psychometabolism is powerful enough to allow Psions to take lots of damage while taking absurdly low blows. Many strange displays wish to ingrain while so many blues eat esperweed while running with scissors. The truth is out there with you so dont manifest Mind Switch on Oozes on top of other neolithids however it should hit when something is blown through Kelmor's face or he -well had turnips so he showed his rear to your mother who passed "Go" and did -not- have a can of beans that gave Mind Flayers headaches and they can't eat Jelly tonight but some want to devour Diet Mountain Dew because it gives them gas Which enlarges upside-down Cake smeered On their Babies toys. That would Taste like chicken. That does Not compute With standard farmers. They They They They They They went To see the Fair. -fin-
Silmarien Aldalome 11-03-03, 11:10 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Its all very nice, but under the domain, it seems like you list more domains. Are they domains, or spells? And if they are either, i assume they need more fleshing out? Whatever they are - they are only at the formulation stage. For example - "Matter Domain" is broader than Earth. It would subsume anything that is matter which is all things of molecular nature. The spells would need to be devised, and the powers defined. "Synergy" Domain - might be like the Fusion spells of the OneLand - combination spells - and the "emergent" effects from spell combinations. E.g. Fireballs that only burns animal matter (fusion of plant-y spell + fire spell). The "Transcendence" domain, for example, might look at spells or spell like effects that 'redirect' incoming energy - and re-configure it into an emergent spell (there is one spell that does this already - see Magic of Faerun). This is more that abjuration - it is abjuration and transformation. etc....do you have any particular ideas?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-03, 03:02 AM	The crystal weapons of the godless clerics - were crafted with naught but the Minds of the Matter Domain Clerics. These Humans - were an offshoot of the Formless Clerics - who themselves throw back to the Spiritual Ones. When concentrated upon by the Human Cleric, these crystals resonate with strange energy that can be mastered and focussed into many amazing forms - all of which are the Tools of Matter Domain clerics. This Ritual is very difficult - only the highest level Clerics may attempt this Lore and it requires great concentration. Breathing assists the focus for this Ritual. This contrasts with the Transcendence domain clerics who were birthed during the First Age of the Godless Clerics. After 1000 years of discovery, Transcendence Domain Psychometabolism was discovered. This was during the time of Great Pain - when all the World was at strife. Here, the Godless Clerics learned that Mastery over Body was an extension of Mastery over Matter. The only difference being that the body is more complex than earth, air and fire. So it was that spiritual Life was revealed in the Body itself. Thence, the Godless Clerics learned how to slow down or speed up metabolism - or to cause sleep, extend periods of waking, extend periods of hunger and thirst, extend bodily life, or to age the body prematurely. Digestion could be adjusted to allow the eating of foods not normally edible to humans. So the sphere of life of adaptation was widened by these humans - who were able to endure the Time of Pain by mastery over their bodies. From psychometabolism, the Transcendence Domain clerics were provoked to learn meta-metabolism - which is the Spiritual Transcendence of Body over Body. This discovery was made by those clerics who were imprisoned in enemy lands, during the Second Age and when all the world grew to fear these stange humans. There were imprisonments and persecution - as fear possessed the people. The Godless Clerics were blamed for the woes of the world - and were forced into smaller lands. Many were killed and captured, but this was a resilient culture of human beings - who adapted and changed to survive. And from the pressure - the Spiritual Transcendence over Body was discovered. Through their Communion with Inner Divinity - and all of Life - they elevated the energies of their bodies, and walked through their bonds. From this Sphere - godless clerics learned how to modify their bodies - to shapeshift, and to create bodies of pure energy. These tasks are demanding and require concentration. They can only be sustained for a short time.....
Gellion 11-04-03, 06:35 AM	Hmmmmm... I like both ideas.:) Although the second post is rather Psionicy in flavor, but i like that.:) So, we need to come up with spells and powers for these domains? I am practically braindead right now, i will see what i can do when i am more awake. And not doing schoolwork.:) Mmmmmmmmmm caffeinne.:D
Gellion 11-04-03, 06:45 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Whatever they are - they are only at the formulation stage. For example - "Matter Domain" is broader than Earth. It would subsume anything that is matter which is all things of molecular nature. The spells would need to be devised, and the powers defined. Hmmmm Maybe some alteration of objects at their very core? Maybe even something having to do with Anti-Matter? "Synergy" Domain - might be like the Fusion spells of the OneLand - combination spells - and the "emergent" effects from spell combinations. E.g. Fireballs that only burns animal matter (fusion of plant-y spell + fire spell). Well, maybe the power could let you fuse a certain amount of spells per day. I would say this would be more up to the DM. There are just too many spells to know what all of them combined will do. The "Transcendence" domain, for example, might look at spells or spell like effects that 'redirect' incoming energy - and re-configure it into an emergent spell (there is one spell that does this already - see Magic of Faerun). This is more that abjuration - it is abjuration and transformation. I dont have MoF, what exactly does the spell do? Like do you mean, a different sort of counterspell?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-03, 07:05 AM	Sil: The "Transcendence" domain, for example, might look at spells or spell like effects that 'redirect' incoming energy - and re-configure it into an emergent spell (there is one spell that does this already - see Magic of Faerun). This is more that abjuration - it is abjuration and transformation. Gel: I dont have MoF, what exactly does the spell do? Like do you mean, a different sort of counterspell? OK - it's this spell that soaks up incoming spell energy - and then re-directs it into one spell of your choice. I'd like to see this changed to "Moulded to a spell of your Will and Word" - so it would be like this mega-kick-ass cleric - that could walk into a room filled with all kindsa magic - and just soak it all up unharmed - and re-direct it into one of the Godless Cleric Domains..... It's a terrible threat to game balance - but *winks at Gellinon* That's why it's fun! Sil
Gellion 11-04-03, 07:18 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome OK - it's this spell that soaks up incoming spell energy - and then re-directs it into one spell of your choice. I'd like to see this changed to "Moulded to a spell of your Will and Word" - so it would be like this mega-kick-ass cleric - that could walk into a room filled with all kindsa magic - and just soak it all up unharmed - and re-direct it into one of the Godless Cleric Domains..... Ahhh i see. I thought it was something along those lines.
Jamma 11-04-03, 03:05 PM	hay grimclaw is a better letter thin you he's the real humen founder and the 1st so and he will return soon ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angel: :( :uh-huh: :devil:
aravilar_holistacia 11-04-03, 06:00 PM	Originally posted by Jamma hay grimclaw is a better letter thin you he's the real humen founder and the 1st so and he will return soon ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :angel: :( :uh-huh: :devil: Well, jamma, I would speak with either of the two leaders of this board: he has a position to fill on the Harper Foundation boards. hey sil, hey gell. Great idea about the Trancendence Domain, sil. Sounds sorta like what spellfire wielders do with spells, but your idea is much cooler.
Gellion 11-04-03, 07:30 PM	I know this kind of defeats the purpose of PMs. But Sil, check your PM box.:D
aravilar_holistacia 11-04-03, 07:39 PM	That's a serious thing, people don't empty their PM boxes. That's outbox, AND inbox, people (and elves!). Hey Gell, Hey Sil! How goes the cleric PrC and the Trancendental domain?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-04-03, 07:39 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Well, jamma, I would speak with either of the two leaders of this board: he has a position to fill on the Harper Foundation boards. hey sil, hey gell. Great idea about the Trancendence Domain, sil. Sounds sorta like what spellfire wielders do with spells, but your idea is much cooler. Greetings all - will do gell *smiles for all*
Jamma 11-05-03, 03:37 PM	thers only one leader and that is grimclaw kevvmenn ant a real leader and he never will be hes level 60 i'm level 75 minotaur fighter :b: :devil: :fight!:
grendle 11-05-03, 03:40 PM	Tell It Jamma We All KNow That Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jamma 11-05-03, 03:44 PM	hay grindel grimclaw should be on in a little :smirk:
grendle 11-05-03, 03:46 PM	Sweet
grimclaw 11-05-03, 03:54 PM	Hey everybody,trying to get caught up on all i missed.will still be posting only a little.sorry about the children little spams,they are young and dont know any better.i've missed a lot ,it's going to take a while to get caught up.will do some serious posts once i'm up to speed.:angel:
grendle 11-05-03, 03:57 PM	Well Hurry Up And Get Serious You Got Some Posting Too DO!
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Silmarien Aldalome 11-05-03, 10:42 PM	Grimclaw!!!! Welcome Mellon - the Returning Traveller - yes and Thread Keeper Orignale.... *turns to Gellion* *turns to community Everyone - I think we really need to acknowledge that Gellion held the fort here for a very long time when our leaders went walkabout. While I value, love and support Grimmy (and am warmed to have him returning) - I don't want Gellion overlooked. It's is no small thing to keep a quiet thread topped up - and Gellion has worked like a trojen to keep Human fires stoked and warm. It really does require an enourmous act of faith - because it just gets embarrassing when the thread goes quiet. To 'get past' that is an act of strong character. So - at the very least I think two things should happen. 1. I want Grimclaw re-instated as Thread Keeper - 2. I want to see Gellion in an Honourary Role here And if Our Leader's life requires partial presence here - then I want to see the role shared between Gellion and Grimmy. Maybe we need to start another thread - and import the posts from this thread - "quote" and "copy" and "past". We could all help out. What do yas think? Your Servant Silmarien PS - Avarilar - we're still workin' on Godless Clerics - but there's some Housekeeping first.... I LOVE YOU ALL Silmarien
Gellion 11-05-03, 10:47 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Grimclaw!!!! Welcome Mellon - the Returning Traveller - yes and Thread Keeper Orignale.... *turns to Gellion* *turns to community Everyone - I think we really need to acknowledge that Gellion held the fort here for a very long time when our leaders went walkabout. While I value, love and support Grimmy (and am warmed to have him returning) - I don't want Gellion overlooked. It's is no small thing to keep a quiet thread topped up - and Gellion has worked like a trojen to keep Human fires stoked and warm. It really does require an enourmous act of faith - because it just gets embarrassing when the thread goes quiet. To 'get past' that is an act of strong character. So - at the very least I think two things should happen. 1. I want Grimclaw re-instated as Thread Keeper - 2. I want to see Gellion in an Honourary Role here And if Our Leader's life requires partial presence here - then I want to see the role shared between Gellion and Grimmy. Maybe we need to start another thread - and import the posts from this thread - "quote" and "copy" and "past". We could all help out. What do yas think? Your Servant Silmarien PS - Avarilar - we're still workin' on Godless Clerics - but there's some Housekeeping first.... I LOVE YOU ALL Silmarien Well, i feel a bit better now. I had to let all my aggression out. See my above posts.:)
Gellion 11-05-03, 10:52 PM	I assure everybody, that my above post, were all typed in a fit of rage.:)
grimclaw 11-06-03, 01:25 PM	No need to worry about the thread keeper thing.I just dont have the time to give it the attention it deserves.Gellion is by deed,more than fit for the post.Like I said earlier ignore those comments from Jamma and Grindle.Theyn are a couple of young reletives of mine and are still learning the difference between roleplaying and spaming. I'll check in here every once in a while and see how things are going.Been gone way to long.:angel:
grimclaw 11-06-03, 01:25 PM	No need to worry about the thread keeper thing.I just dont have the time to give it the attention it deserves.Gellion is by deed,more than fit for the post.Like I said earlier ignore those comments from Jamma and Grindle.Theyn are a couple of young reletives of mine and are still learning the difference between roleplaying and spaming. I'll check in here every once in a while and see how things are going.Been gone way to long.:angel:
grimclaw 11-06-03, 01:26 PM	No need to worry about the thread keeper thing.I just dont have the time to give it the attention it deserves.Gellion is by deed,more than fit for the post.Like I said earlier ignore those comments from Jamma and Grindle.Theyn are a couple of young reletives of mine and are still learning the difference between roleplaying and spaming. I'll check in here every once in a while and see how things are going.Been gone way to long.:angel:
Jamma 11-06-03, 01:46 PM	hay sorry for that :angel:
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-03, 06:47 PM	Then - Gellion - I don't want you displaced by the other Vanishing Head Honcho thingy - (Kevmann) - I'm wondering if we should start another Thread - Can we contact the WizO's and get them to import all the posts to a Gellion Thread - and have this one closed. Or - are you comfortable to conitnue as is Gellion? Greetings Jamma, Grimclaw and others - With the Housekeeping nearly out of the way - I'll return to Clericy things ...... soon. Your Servant Silmarien (Half-Human)
Gellion 11-06-03, 07:04 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Then - Gellion - I don't want you displaced by the other Vanishing Head Honcho thingy - (Kevmann) - I'm wondering if we should start another Thread - Can we contact the WizO's and get them to import all the posts to a Gellion Thread - and have this one closed. Or - are you comfortable to conitnue as is Gellion? Greetings Jamma, Grimclaw and others - With the Housekeeping nearly out of the way - I'll return to Clericy things ...... soon. Your Servant Silmarien (Half-Human) I am fine with this thread. I do not want to have to get back up to this number of posts again.:D So am i the threadkeeper now or what? Does that also mean i am the leader of the Human Foundation? Edit: Oh, wait, if we can import al the posts, then sure.:D
Silmarien Aldalome 11-06-03, 07:28 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I am fine with this thread. I do not want to have to get back up to this number of posts again.:D So am i the threadkeeper now or what? Does that also mean i am the leader of the Human Foundation? Edit: Oh, wait, if we can import al the posts, then sure.:D Don't in terms of "numbers" think in terms of your Purpose and Road. What's the difference between 1 and 1000? But I'm sure the thread can be re-named. But be careful what you say to a WizO - don't complain and don't get anyone into trouble. It's just that you'd like to be able to modify the Opening Post to set the Tone of the Foundation.... Are you a Leader? Then Lead Us Human! My elven blood will suffer your Commands only while I am in your Lands..... :bow:
Gellion 11-06-03, 07:56 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Don't in terms of "numbers" think in terms of your Purpose and Road. What's the difference between 1 and 1000? But I'm sure the thread can be re-named. But be careful what you say to a WizO - don't complain and don't get anyone into trouble. It's just that you'd like to be able to modify the Opening Post to set the Tone of the Foundation.... Are you a Leader? Then Lead Us Human! My elven blood will suffer your Commands only while I am in your Lands..... :bow: Well, should i contact a WizO, and ask them. Or do you just want me to start a new thread?
grimclaw 11-07-03, 11:26 AM	Whatever your decision,i'm with you on it.Though this one seems to be doing well as is.Your good as a thread keeper.(cheers and salutations!):angel:
Gellion 11-08-03, 12:53 AM	For now, we will keep this thread. I think it is doing well. To Grimclaw: :bow:
Silmarien Aldalome 11-08-03, 02:41 AM	ALL HAIL OUR NEW THREAD KEEPER The Gellion - Lord of Women and Men! May Our Lord's Leadership be Guided by Wisdom - and by Love - for thence shall we show him our Fidelity and Loyalty. Hail Gellion - Thread Keeper! Greetings Grimclaw - radiant in your Grace and Humility - ever Noble and Beautiful. Your Return is unforseen - and long may our fires burn with your Memory. Stay and tell us your Tale. Come and share Lembas at Half-Elven Halls - where Rh'iel's Herald (anglar) stands at our Table. Great your Love - share it with us. OK - we need to get this Foundation into new hands - No More Usurping by the Usurper (see Thread Owner). Our Thread Keeper has abandoned us - we must correct this.
Gellion 11-08-03, 02:50 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome ALL HAIL OUR NEW THREAD KEEPER The Gellion - Lord of Women and Men! May Our Lord's Leadership be Guided by Wisdom - and by Love - for thence shall we show him our Fidelity and Loyalty. Hail Gellion - Thread Keeper! Greetings Grimclaw - radiant in your Grace and Humility - ever Noble and Beautiful. Your Return is unforseen - and long may our fires burn with your Memory. Stay and tell us your Tale. Come and share Lembas at Half-Elven Halls - where Rh'iel's Herald (anglar) stands at our Table. Great your Love - share it with us. OK - we need to get this Foundation into new hands - No More Usurping by the Usurper (see Thread Owner). Our Thread Keeper has abandoned us - we must correct this. Yay!!!!!!!:) :cookie: for everone!!!!!!!!!!
Gellion 11-08-03, 08:18 PM	I will keep this thread for now. Now, back to whatever we were doing.:)
Gellion 11-10-03, 07:27 PM	:bump:
aravilar_holistacia 11-10-03, 09:11 PM	Ave, Gellion imperator! Gellion, it will be an honor to have you as the thread keeper. Kevmann (who i have never met) IMHO is not exactly... the organized type. In your new capacity, may I become an honorary member? This will be to promote good relations between the races of elves and men (souds to me like LOTR, SIL!) not to memtion between the Harpers themselves (lol, sorta). I await your response, lord. Aravilar
Gellion 11-10-03, 09:13 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Ave, Gellion imperator! Gellion, it will be an honor to have you as the thread keeper. Kevmann (who i have never met) IMHO is not exactly... the organized type. In your new capacity, may I become an honorary member? This will be to promote good relations between the races of elves and men (souds to me like LOTR, SIL!) not to memtion between the Harpers themselves (lol, sorta). I await your response, lord. Aravilar Sure, just put that you are an honorary of the Human Foundation in your sig.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 11-12-03, 01:22 AM	Verily - Aravilar - sooth thou speaketh - for Greater is our Thread Keeper than Men of Old - and verily doth he recall the Majesty and Grace of his forebears.... OK - back to business - we gotta get that Godless Cleric out.... See You Suddenly - Sil
Gellion 11-13-03, 05:53 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Verily - Aravilar - sooth thou speaketh - for Greater is our Thread Keeper than Men of Old - and verily doth he recall the Majesty and Grace of his forebears.... :bow: Thanks Sil.:embarrass
Gellion 11-13-03, 08:16 PM	On a somewhat related note, check out this post. It has to do with who created Humans in FR. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129949 Also from that thread. Originally posted by Lady Ashemmi Chauntea gave birth to all mortal races (except for the interloper ones). In the 2nd ed. FRCS it's said that she created all the natural beings, which means all the species that also exist (and existed) here in the planet Earth - including humans.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-13-03, 08:41 PM	Originally posted by Gellion On a somewhat related note, check out this post. It has to do with who created Humans in FR. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129949 Also from that thread. Thanx Gellion - do you want to post where we're up to with Godless Clerics..... sil
Gellion 11-13-03, 08:50 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Thanx Gellion - do you want to post where we're up to with Godless Clerics..... sil Well, here is the domain stuff you posted. Godless Cleric Some ideas: spells/spell-like abilities: 1. Morphology Domain (emphasises "transformation" and "manifestation") 2. Matter Domain 3. Synergy Domain 4. Transcendence Domain 5. Mastery over Ordinary Deities Immunities: 1. Spells cast by ordinary cleric (or bonuses to saves) 2. Immunity to Command by normal Deities prerequisites: 1. Human blood. (although - an equivalent for other races could be conceived) 2. Transformation by Humility 3. Great Existential Suffering at some point 4. Will - and experiences that foster Will - or Will-Like Feats 5. Insight - or skills and feats that encourage "True-Seeing" (spell True-Seeing as prereq maybe). Hmmmmm.... What did you mean by "Great Existential Suffering at some point"?
Kevmann 11-14-03, 02:52 AM	The problem is, I don't get onto the boards anymore. When I first started this thread, i was a very active member on the boards. But I just don't have the time that I used to to come to the boards, and especially keep up with the thread. Therefore, I make GELLION our official thread keeper, in honor of all the work he has done here to keep the thread alive and working. He will instantly be moved up to a position of honor among the memebers, and shall this day forth be able to accept new members and all the powers allowed for a thread keeper. Congradulations and good luck! PS I will still remain the owner. Hey, what is a LE person supposed to do? :)
Gellion 11-14-03, 06:20 AM	Originally posted by Kevmann The problem is, I don't get onto the boards anymore. When I first started this thread, i was a very active member on the boards. But I just don't have the time that I used to to come to the boards, and especially keep up with the thread. Therefore, I make GELLION our official thread keeper, in honor of all the work he has done here to keep the thread alive and working. He will instantly be moved up to a position of honor among the memebers, and shall this day forth be able to accept new members and all the powers allowed for a thread keeper. Congradulations and good luck! PS I will still remain the owner. Hey, what is a LE person supposed to do? :) Thanks Kevmann. Glad you are not mad.:bow:
Tenzhi 11-14-03, 08:54 AM	Interesting... Gellion is now truly El Presidente of the Human Fan-Club. Given this bizarre turn of events, and certain murmurs that have been going on of late, I expect that the reign of the Foundation threads may soon come to a furious halt - or at least change location.
Legions of the Unknown 11-14-03, 03:25 PM	hello to all i saw a human foundation and said hey im a human why not, so i was just checking if there might be an opening for me in your foundation. ;) thx have a good day
Gellion 11-14-03, 03:51 PM	Originally posted by Legions of the Unknown hello to all i saw a human foundation and said hey im a human why not, so i was just checking if there might be an opening for me in your foundation. ;) thx have a good day Sure, consider yourslef Member # 17. I think you are number 17 at least.:confused: To Tenzhi: Jealous?J/K. We all love you.:D
Legions of the Unknown 11-14-03, 03:54 PM	cool thx
aravilar_holistacia 11-15-03, 04:34 PM	Hey all, just a quick post to see what's up. Hey Gell. [aravilar] Elven: Iire eller naa beth, naa naur. (When there's a word, there is fire.)
zollex5 11-15-03, 04:46 PM	Originally posted by Tenzhi Interesting... Gellion is now truly El Presidente of the Human Fan-Club. I hope that means he'll be spending more time here instead of spamming the Half-Elven Foundation. Zollex :mage:
Gellion 11-15-03, 04:47 PM	Originally posted by zollex5 I hope that means he'll be spending more time here instead of spamming the Half-Elven Foundation. Zollex :mage: BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!
zollex5 11-15-03, 04:48 PM	Originally posted by Gellion BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!! Not a good sign, is it? Zollex :mage:
Gellion 11-15-03, 04:56 PM	Originally posted by zollex5 Not a good sign, is it? Zollex :mage: :behold:
Gellion 11-15-03, 08:36 PM	So, how is everybody doing?
Silmarien Aldalome 11-15-03, 08:44 PM	Looks upstrea - It has been interesting around here..... To Our Elusive Founder: :bow: - Then all is as it should be - again, Gellion you deserve it. G'day everyone. To Zollex (winks - the best revenge is to 'counter-spam' the Humans.....) MWAHAHA Originally posted by Gellion Some ideas: spells/spell-like abilities: 1. Morphology Domain (emphasises "transformation" and "manifestation") 2. Matter Domain 3. Synergy Domain 4. Transcendence Domain 5. Mastery over Ordinary Deities Immunities: 1. Spells cast by ordinary cleric (or bonuses to saves) 2. Immunity to Command by normal Deities prerequisites: 1. Human blood. (although - an equivalent for other races could be conceived) 2. Transformation by Humility 3. Great Existential Suffering at some point 4. Will - and experiences that foster Will - or Will-Like Feats 5. Insight - or skills and feats that encourage "True-Seeing" (spell True-Seeing as prereq maybe). Hmmmmm.... What did you mean by "Great Existential Suffering at some point"? Apart from sounding a bit over the top - the idea here is that when the human is subjected to awful stress, and almost unimaginable horrors - she will either completely lose-it - or be transformed by the suffering - Suffering can provoke awe-inspiring transformation. OK - which feat do you want to begin on.
Gellion 11-15-03, 09:03 PM	The Morphology domain seems interesting...
Silmarien Aldalome 11-15-03, 09:29 PM	Hmmm, some boundaries to discuss firstly about the scope of the ability. 1. Narrow (simple effects over the self) versus Broad (far-reaching effects over matter beyond the self also). 2.What doe we mean by "manifestation" - some ideas here: to transform Energy into Action/Matter/Effects. Or to "morph" energy into effects that intersect with multiple Planes - or to use Matter as a basic tools for cleric-effects - or bodily transformations. I think we were talking "body and meta-body" what would "morphology-body" effects be like - i want something more colourful than just shape-shifting. Maybe - "raising energy of bodily matter - so that it flesh can withstand much much more - like walking into star-fire without taking harm - or like setting up a different "atomic" resonance so that spell-resistance goes through the roof - or like when casting spells in meta-energised morphological states, that your spells undergo meta-magical transformation - but with wierder effects than just making them "bigger, longer lasting" etc. Meta-magic might be the ability to interact with Weave, as another spellcaster casts - and to "make your presence" in the other spell caster's spell - so that the Energy comes out Morphed to your wishes and will. So, this isn't like Counterspell, and not Wild magic - but a meta-magical effect of distinct quality. Just some thoughts - which do you want to develop. Sil
Gellion 11-15-03, 09:40 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome [B] [QUOTE]1. Narrow (simple effects over the self) versus Broad (far-reaching effects over matter beyond the self also). Well, i would prefer more broad effects. 2.What doe we mean by "manifestation" - some ideas here: to transform Energy into Action/Matter/Effects. Or to "morph" energy into effects that intersect with multiple Planes - or to use Matter as a basic tools for cleric-effects - or bodily transformations. I like both the first and second idea. I think we were talking "body and meta-body" what would "morphology-body" effects be like - i want something more colourful than just shape-shifting. Maybe - "raising energy of bodily matter - so that it flesh can withstand much much more - like walking into star-fire without taking harm - or like setting up a different "atomic" resonance so that spell-resistance goes through the roof - or like when casting spells in meta-energised morphological states, that your spells undergo meta-magical transformation - but with wierder effects than just making them "bigger, longer lasting" etc. Meta-magic might be the ability to interact with Weave, as another spellcaster casts - and to "make your presence" in the other spell caster's spell - so that the Energy comes out Morphed to your wishes and will. So, this isn't like Counterspell, and not Wild magic - but a meta-magical effect of distinct quality. I like the "raisng energy of bodily matter" idea. Hmmmmmm... Maybe, some new meta-magic feats are in order...
Silmarien Aldalome 11-15-03, 09:52 PM	OK 1. Broader effects 2. Morphing Energy to intersect with multiple planes. 3. Bodily Transformations 4. "Raising Molecular Energy (we need a D&D-ish term - um.....Essence of Flesh.....Energy Signature of Body....um...."Meta-Matter-States" - where spell resistance goes through the roof. 5. New Meta-Magic Feats (e.g. "Fuse-With-Weave - and "Make Presence in Other's Spell-Casting-Matrix") That might be like a ghost in the machine as it were. Pause - going to gym - please add as you wish - and anyone got any ideas?? Cheers sil
aravilar_holistacia 11-15-03, 09:56 PM	{Edit: This starts the 20th page!} I may be of some use here. like setting up a different "atomic" resonance This is my hobby, melloneamin! (Friends of mine!) You would have to create a type of ritual casting that would permanently alter the creature's physiology. Their racial descriptor would change to "Magical Beast" and gain the traits of such a creature. This "meta-cleric" would be out of phase (perhaps ethereal) because of the higher energy levels and thus higher electron shell energy levels. Such a character would be able to pass through physical things (yes, SR would be infinite, unless of course you are using a spell with the [force] descriptor). To kick your atomic resonance to a higher (or lower) level, you would cast a ritual spell that would take a long while and would burn many XP. At the moment of atomic inception, the world would get quite small for the inceptee, before returning to a "normal" state. This phased creature would not exist in the casting plane, nor would it exist in that universe. Such a creature would be existing in a different, parallel multiverse (like the ethereal plane). [aravilar] Elven: [never mind, not now]
aravilar_holistacia 11-15-03, 10:04 PM	PS: Sil, I'm so bored, I'm listening to LOTR:the Two Towers soundtrack. eating stale lembas as well [aravilar]
Gellion 11-15-03, 10:13 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia You would have to create a type of ritual casting that would permanently alter the creature's physiology. Their racial descriptor would change to "Magical Beast" and gain the traits of such a creature. This "meta-cleric" would be out of phase (perhaps ethereal) because of the higher energy levels and thus higher electron shell energy levels. Such a character would be able to pass through physical things (yes, SR would be infinite, unless of course you are using a spell with the [force] descriptor). To kick your atomic resonance to a higher (or lower) level, you would cast a ritual spell that would take a long while and would burn many XP. At the moment of atomic inception, the world would get quite small for the inceptee, before returning to a "normal" state. This phased creature would not exist in the casting plane, nor would it exist in that universe. Such a creature would be existing in a different, parallel multiverse (like the ethereal plane). That all sounds interesting. Except for the magical beast part. I would prefer for the caster type to remain Human.
Gellion 11-16-03, 10:32 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome 1. Broader effects 2. Morphing Energy to intersect with multiple planes. 3. Bodily Transformations 4. "Raising Molecular Energy (we need a D&D-ish term - um.....Essence of Flesh.....Energy Signature of Body....um...."Meta-Matter-States" - where spell resistance goes through the roof. 5. New Meta-Magic Feats (e.g. "Fuse-With-Weave - and "Make Presence in Other's Spell-Casting-Matrix") That might be like a ghost in the machine as it were. Yep, this pretty much sums up what i want in the Morphology domain. Ahhhh, so much fleshing out to do still.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-18-03, 07:17 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Yep, this pretty much sums up what i want in the Morphology domain. Ahhhh, so much fleshing out to do still. Yes - hello Gell - am happy to proceed with this. Also - hava look at H/E - we need your input there - An invitation to you too - to open a discussion here about what the Foundation does, it's goals, who we are, and what you would like from us. I'll leave the R&D - until I hear from you first..... :) Cheerio Stav
Gellion 11-18-03, 07:30 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome An invitation to you too - to open a discussion here about what the Foundation does, it's goals, who we are, and what you would like from us. Well, i can best sum it up as, develop cool stuff for Humans. And talk about Humans in D&D, and in fantasy settings in general. As an unrelated side note, apparently my alignment is Chaotic Neutral.:confused:
Gellion 11-18-03, 09:40 PM	Sorry about the OT post. But Aiden2, could you clear out your PM box. You have to clear out your in and out boxes.
zollex5 11-19-03, 08:57 PM	I've started a Foundation Council on the Metaboard so that all foundations can get together. It'll be easier to get our points accross to the WizO's. Everyone is welcome - there's a link in my sig. Zollex Custodian of the Tomes, Half-Elven Foundation
Gellion 11-20-03, 08:47 PM	I have another idea for Human Clerics. They are sort of godless. If you play in a setting, where A race such as Elvs re immortal, and it is very hard for them to grasp the idea of death, while Humans are normally short-lived, can easily grasp it. I was thinking of a Clerical PrC, in which they worshipped death, and that is what they got their domain powers from. And at the final level could turn into a Lich. I know there are typos in there, my keyboard is being stubborn.:(
Legions of the Unknown 11-20-03, 09:23 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I have another idea for Human Clerics. They are sort of godless. If you play in a setting, where A race such as Elvs re immortal, and it is very hard for them to grasp the idea of death, while Humans are normally short-lived, can easily grasp it. I was thinking of a Clerical PrC, in which they worshipped death, and that is what they got their domain powers from. And at the final level could turn into a Lich. that sounds like an interesting take on the human cleric id be interested in this if you could embelish gellion
Gellion 11-20-03, 09:32 PM	Originally posted by Legions of the Unknown that sounds like an interesting take on the human cleric id be interested in this if you could embelish gellion Well, i have noticed that most people have some kind of morbid fascination with death, and anything else considere "dark". In a fantasy setting, in which Humans are usually a short-lived race, it would make sense for Humans to grasp the concept of death better than say a long-lived Elf. Especially if the Elves are immortal in a setting, while death constantly looms over Humans, it does not for Elves. Or any other race that is immortal.
Gellion 11-22-03, 12:49 AM	This PrC would get the ability to cast spells that make undead as a Supernatural abilty, as well as summon many different tpyes of undead. I was also thinking they could "research" on how to make new types of Undead. The process would be similar to how a Wizard or Sorceror researches spells. Sorry about going off-yopic. I know the godless Cleric needs to be worked on. I just had to throw this idea out there(which i have copyrighted by the way;)).
Legions of the Unknown 11-22-03, 01:27 AM	i think it sounds great but what alignment would it be evil or nutral. personally id say true nutral is the way 2 go because if you look at the old planescape setting there is a organization that is based on this and they are a nutral organization (death does not select alignment just some alignmets dont like it (liches))
Gellion 11-22-03, 01:50 AM	Originally posted by Legions of the Unknown i think it sounds great but what alignment would it be evil or nutral. personally id say true nutral is the way 2 go because if you look at the old planescape setting there is a organization that is based on this and they are a nutral organization (death does not select alignment just some alignmets dont like it (liches)) It would have Alignment: Any. I believe that Undead can be good.
Tenzhi 11-22-03, 02:22 AM	I can see a new status forming in the glossary: Brooding: A character becomes so dark and "kewl" that he receives a +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma-based skill checks for 1d4+1 rounds. Vampires are constantly under this effect.
Legions of the Unknown 11-22-03, 02:30 AM	Originally posted by Tenzhi I can see a new status forming in the glossary: Brooding: A character becomes so dark and "kewl" that he receives a +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma-based skill checks for 1d4+1 rounds. Vampires are constantly under this effect. your 1 of a kind man lol :D that bonus would only come if they were doing any charisma checks to evil characters cuz my friends pally would cut your head off and stuff it wit garlic ;) wether or not you can get him with your charisma checks ( u were kidding rite???)
Gellion 11-22-03, 02:35 AM	Originally posted by Tenzhi I can see a new status forming in the glossary: Brooding: A character becomes so dark and "kewl" that he receives a +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma-based skill checks for 1d4+1 rounds. Vampires are constantly under this effect. In the ever infamous words of Sil. WE LOVE YOU TENZHI!!!!!!:bounce: And you do not have to play the character as being dark and brooding. I would make a happy go luck Death Priest.:) :behold:
Legions of the Unknown 11-22-03, 02:39 AM	same here i dont like vampires id say a death priest demi lich ;)
Tenzhi 11-22-03, 02:58 AM	Dark and brooding characters don't necessarily have to be evil. And while I'm kidding on the surface, I could actually see seriously implementing "Brooding" as an Extraordinary class ability if the right PrC comes along for it.
Legions of the Unknown 11-22-03, 12:26 PM	ohhh my bad tenzhi i thought you ment as a feat like ones that anyone gets. and i didnt mean the person with it had to be evil my god my CG elf could get that hes all dark and broody, but back to the point i just said that if it was to a commoner in a village/city you would most likely frighten the person whitch dont get me wrong would raise a intimidate bonus against any non evil pc or npc.
Gellion 11-23-03, 04:40 PM	Originally posted by Legions of the Unknown i just said that if it was to a commoner in a village/city you would most likely frighten the person whitch dont get me wrong would raise a intimidate bonus against any non evil pc or npc. It depends on the world. In some Undead could be quite common, and even used for labor in cities.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 11-23-03, 07:51 PM	Ello all, I'd wish to reapply me membership to this heres human foundation. Sorry I havent done this sooner but I've been busy with the other foundations beacuse of this new CoC foundation thing.
Gellion 11-23-03, 08:08 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Ello all, I'd wish to reapply me membership to this heres human foundation. Sorry I havent done this sooner but I've been busy with the other foundations beacuse of this new CoC foundation thing. Sure, according to the new CoC, you can just put in your sig that you are a member of the Human Foundation.:)
Gellion 11-23-03, 08:08 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Ello all, I'd wish to reapply me membership to this heres human foundation. Sorry I havent done this sooner but I've been busy with the other foundations beacuse of this new CoC foundation thing. Sure, according to the new CoC, you can just put in your sig that you are a member of the Human Foundation.:)
Gellion 11-23-03, 08:08 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Ello all, I'd wish to reapply me membership to this heres human foundation. Sorry I havent done this sooner but I've been busy with the other foundations beacuse of this new CoC foundation thing. Sure, according to the new CoC, you can just put in your sig that you are a member of the Human Foundation.:)
Frostbite_Ravenheart 11-23-03, 09:05 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Sure, according to the new CoC, you can just put in your sig that you are a member of the Human Foundation.:) Yes, belive me I am quite fimilar with the new coc...anyways I am respectfull so I ask. You cannot simply walk into a high school even though its a public building can you? :P :D
Gellion 11-23-03, 09:27 PM	Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Yes, belive me I am quite fimilar with the new coc...anyways I am respectfull so I ask. You cannot simply walk into a high school even though its a public building can you? :P :D True, we better get back on topic soon though.:D
aravilar_holistacia 11-23-03, 09:49 PM	The PrC looks good, Gell. PS: A happy-go-lucky death priest? That's a keeper :D [ava]
Gellion 11-23-03, 10:01 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia The PrC looks good, Gell. PS: A happy-go-lucky death priest? That's a keeper :D [ava] Now, to just get it down on paper. Which i am notoriously bad at.:D
Gellion 11-23-03, 10:03 PM	599...
Gellion 11-23-03, 10:05 PM	600th post!!!:D
aravilar_holistacia 11-23-03, 11:00 PM	GELL! DON'T do that! That will make this thread get locked! That's spam, under the CoC. ava
Gellion 11-23-03, 11:10 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia GELL! DON'T do that! That will make this thread get locked! That's spam, under the CoC. ava EEEEPPPP!!!!!!:eek: Sorry, the excitement got to me.:embarrass But yeah, i need to find some time to work on both of the PrC ideas that are here. I wish RL did not interfere as much as it does.:(
Legions of the Unknown 11-24-03, 01:03 PM	Originally posted by Gellion Now, to just get it down on paper. Which i am notoriously bad at.:D use a template from a different class like the downloads for 3.5e the just replace there info with yours ;) thats wut im gunna do with the legioneer of the unknown.
Silmarien Aldalome 11-25-03, 08:38 PM	The Morphology Domain 1. Broad Ranging effects *smiles at Gellion* 2. Morphing Energy to intersect with multiple planes. 3. Bodily Transformations 4. "Raising Molecular Energy (we need a D&D-ish term - um.....Essence of Flesh.....Energy Signature of Body....um...."Meta-Matter-States" - where spell resistance goes through the roof. 5. New Meta-Magic Feats (e.g. "Fuse-With-Weave - and "Make Presence in Other's Spell-Casting-Matrix") That might be like a ghost in the machine as it were. OK Greetings Everyone! My apologies for the absence. I've been very busy. There's a new thread at Metaboards I've posted. Please contribute. OK now - Morphing Energy to intersect with Multiple Planes One function at a time everyone - any ideas. Here are some of mine. 1. Open a meta-planar portal - that intersects with a certain number of planes. The number it intersects, depends on the power and level of the spell caster. 2. Once portal open, energy can be "morphed" into an item, object, form, or style - congruent with the plane you're targeting. For example - an "ethereal effect" on the ethereal plane, a "shadow magic" effect on the demi-plane of shadow, a "material effect" on PMP (if you're casting into the PMP from another plane, a "Holy Energy" effect if into the Postive Material Plane. Also. This effect is reversible - so that you can Morph holy energy in the Negative material plane - and so on. Comments? Sil
Gellion 11-25-03, 08:43 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome 1. Open a meta-planar portal - that intersects with a certain number of planes. The number it intersects, depends on the power and level of the spell caster. 2. Once portal open, energy can be "morphed" into an item, object, form, or style - congruent with the plane you're targeting. For example - an "ethereal effect" on the ethereal plane, a "shadow magic" effect on the demi-plane of shadow, a "material effect" on PMP (if you're casting into the PMP from another plane, a "Holy Energy" effect if into the Postive Material Plane. Also. This effect is reversible - so that you can Morph holy energy in the Negative material plane - and so on. I like it.:) Particularly the second power.:cool:
Silmarien Aldalome 11-25-03, 08:54 PM	Thank you kindly Gellion - about that "600th post" thing - did you receive a PM from WizO Cat? OK - now - it's not enough to just say what I said about this multiplanar power. It needs to be more specific. Exactly "what form", and "how should" the "coalescing of energy" transpire. What - like Mordenkainan's sword (excuse the ref to V3 - I hate the new spell-naming system)? Or e.g. Damage-based, Defensive-based, mind-affecting, facsimilie (e.g. "Doppleganger-ish" or "Zin Carla" ish)? All of the above - open slather? I.e. "wish-ish" but meta-dimensional emphasis. cheers sil Gell - hava think about this - i've got to get my lunch, and check other threads.... cheers sil Anyone seen Zollex?
Gellion 11-25-03, 09:07 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Thank you kindly Gellion - about that "600th post" thing - did you receive a PM from WizO Cat? OK - now - it's not enough to just say what I said about this multiplanar power. It needs to be more specific. Exactly "what form", and "how should" the "coalescing of energy" transpire. What - like Mordenkainan's sword (excuse the ref to V3 - I hate the new spell-naming system)? Or e.g. Damage-based, Defensive-based, mind-affecting, facsimilie (e.g. "Doppleganger-ish" or "Zin Carla" ish)? All of the above - open slather? I.e. "wish-ish" but meta-dimensional emphasis. cheers sil Gell - hava think about this - i've got to get my lunch, and check other threads.... cheers sil Anyone seen Zollex? I will have to think about this as well. And no, i never received a PM for WizO_Cat. I guess i should knock it off then.
aravilar_holistacia 11-25-03, 09:11 PM	Yea, Sil, he's just been quite busy with RL. And yea, Catoblabalbalblapas should've PMed you with a warn... I guess you're lucky to be alive! BTW, Harpers is approved!!! WizO_BigSis :love::drool::love:... aravilar
Gellion 11-25-03, 10:49 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome It needs to be more specific. Exactly "what form", and "how should" the "coalescing of energy" transpire. What - like Mordenkainan's sword (excuse the ref to V3 - I hate the new spell-naming system)? Or e.g. Damage-based, Defensive-based, mind-affecting, facsimilie (e.g. "Doppleganger-ish" or "Zin Carla" ish)? All of the above - open slather? I.e. "wish-ish" but meta-dimensional emphasis. I like the sewcond idea better. Although it is a bit more complicated it seems a bit more flavorful.I would say it might be like "open slather" as you so call it.:)
Frostbite_Ravenheart 11-26-03, 06:51 PM	Originally posted by Gellion I like the sewcond idea better. Although it is a bit more complicated it seems a bit more flavorful.I would say it might be like "open slather" as you so call it.:) Hey all sorry I've been busy for awhile and havent posted too much but I second this!
Gellion 11-29-03, 12:37 AM	:bump:
Gellion 11-30-03, 11:07 PM	:bump: Sorry, i have been busy, and will continue to be for a bit. Sil, can take control until i get what i am doing done. I will be back as soon as possible.:)
Gellion 12-03-03, 04:08 PM	:bump:
Gellion 12-03-03, 04:29 PM	:bump:
Gellion 12-06-03, 09:43 PM	:bump:
Silmarien Aldalome 12-06-03, 10:48 PM	Greetings Humans. My apologies for the delay - I've been very consumed by Metaboards, and critical analyses of recent events. OK - back to work. Hello Gellion - I'd appreciate your views on the Mythal Eater at the Half-Elven Foundation, and would value your contribution there on that and other matters. The Morphology Domain 1. Broad Ranging effects *smiles at Gellion* 2. Morphing Energy to intersect with multiple planes. 3. Bodily Transformations 4. "Raising Molecular Energy (we need a D&D-ish term - um.....Essence of Flesh.....Energy Signature of Body....um...."Meta-Matter-States" - where spell resistance goes through the roof. 5. New Meta-Magic Feats (e.g. "Fuse-With-Weave - and "Make Presence in Other's Spell-Casting-Matrix") That might be like a ghost in the machine as it were. OK Greetings Everyone! My apologies for the absence. I've been very busy. There's a new thread at Metaboards I've posted. Please contribute. OK now - Morphing Energy to intersect with Multiple Planes One function at a time everyone - any ideas. Here are some of mine. 1. Open a meta-planar portal - that intersects with a certain number of planes. The number it intersects, depends on the power and level of the spell caster. 2. Once portal open, energy can be "morphed" into an item, object, form, or style - congruent with the plane you're targeting. For example - an "ethereal effect" on the ethereal plane, a "shadow magic" effect on the demi-plane of shadow, a "material effect" on PMP (if you're casting into the PMP from another plane, a "Holy Energy" effect if into the Postive Material Plane. Also. This effect is reversible - so that you can Morph holy energy in the Negative material plane - and so on. Add to the above the following: 1. Damage-based events/concepts. 2. Defensive-based events/concepts. 3. Mind-affecting events/concepts 4. Facsimilie Functions(e.g. "Doppleganger-ish" or "Zin Carla" ish)? All of the above - open slather? I.e. 5. "wish-ish" but meta-dimensional emphasis. Frostbite, Gellion, Tenzhi, Avarilar Any suggestions? Cheers Sil
Gellion 12-06-03, 11:12 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Morphing Energy to intersect with Multiple Planes One function at a time everyone - any ideas. Here are some of mine. 1. Open a meta-planar portal - that intersects with a certain number of planes. The number it intersects, depends on the power and level of the spell caster. 2. Once portal open, energy can be "morphed" into an item, object, form, or style - congruent with the plane you're targeting. For example - an "ethereal effect" on the ethereal plane, a "shadow magic" effect on the demi-plane of shadow, a "material effect" on PMP (if you're casting into the PMP from another plane, a "Holy Energy" effect if into the Postive Material Plane. Hmmmm, this sounds interesting. Particularly the part about morphing something into another item. Do you mean an item such a a weapon? Or is it more of this "meta" stuff you keep talking about.;) And what affects could opening meta-planar portals have on the planes themselves? Remember, this is a contributive work everybody. So anybody else who is viewing this foundation, feel free to post your ideas.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 12-08-03, 06:45 AM	The Morphology Domain 1. Broad Ranging effects *smiles at Gellion* 2. Morphing Energy to intersect with multiple planes. 3. Bodily Transformations 4. "Raising Molecular Energy (we need a D&D-ish term - um.....Essence of Flesh.....Energy Signature of Body....um...."Meta-Matter-States" - where spell resistance goes through the roof. 5. New Meta-Magic Feats (e.g. "Fuse-With-Weave - and "Make Presence in Other's Spell-Casting-Matrix") That might be like a ghost in the machine as it were. OK Greetings Everyone! My apologies for the absence. I've been very busy. There's a new thread at Metaboards I've posted. Please contribute. OK now - Morphing Energy to intersect with Multiple Planes One function at a time everyone - any ideas. Here are some of mine. 1. Open a meta-planar portal - that intersects with a certain number of planes. The number it intersects, depends on the power and level of the spell caster. 2. Once portal open, energy can be "morphed" into an item, object, form, or style - congruent with the plane you're targeting. For example - an "ethereal effect" on the ethereal plane, a "shadow magic" effect on the demi-plane of shadow, a "material effect" on PMP (if you're casting into the PMP from another plane, a "Holy Energy" effect if into the Postive Material Plane. Also. This effect is reversible - so that you can Morph holy energy in the Negative material plane - and so on. Add to the above the following: 1. Damage-based events/concepts. 2. Defensive-based events/concepts. 3. Mind-affecting events/concepts 4. Facsimilie Functions(e.g. "Doppleganger-ish" or "Zin Carla" ish)? All of the above - open slather? I.e. 5. "wish-ish" but meta-dimensional emphasis. Frostbite, Gellion, Tenzhi, Avarilar For Damage-Based Events/Concepts Hmmm, let's make this BIG. *winks at Gellion* Morphing Energy that intersects with multiple planes.....I'm thinking 1. Matter Annihilation 2. The equivalent of Hydrogen Fusion (i.e. "Star Burst" stuff - but - with a twist. Question: how does a "star-burst" look/feel/behave in trans-dimensional space?) "Holy Star Burst" in the negative material plane and vice-versa if you're a wicked cleric - assaulting the positive-material plane. In the Etherial Plane - "Ethereal Star-Burst"? In the Demi-Plane of Shadow - "Weave-Star-Burst"? In the Prime-Material Plane - depends what you want Gellion. Do you want "Weaveless" "Weave-Reding" "Raw Magic"? 3. Matter Coalescence is the opposite function - the Creation of something in each plane of existence. Do you have any ideas? Cheers Sil
Gellion 12-08-03, 01:38 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Morphing Energy that intersects with multiple planes.....I'm thinking 1. Matter Annihilation 2. The equivalent of Hydrogen Fusion (i.e. "Star Burst" stuff - but - with a twist. Question: how does a "star-burst" look/feel/behave in trans-dimensional space?) "Holy Star Burst" in the negative material plane and vice-versa if you're a wicked cleric - assaulting the positive-material plane. In the Etherial Plane - "Ethereal Star-Burst"? In the Demi-Plane of Shadow - "Weave-Star-Burst"? In the Prime-Material Plane - depends what you want Gellion. Do you want "Weaveless" "Weave-Reding" "Raw Magic"? 3. Matter Coalescence is the opposite function - the Creation of something in each plane of existence. Mmmmmmmm..... Starburst. Okay, we might need to find a different name, but it al looks good. Cause i keep thinking of candy with the current name. But actaully, i think it is a good name.:)
Dunelord 12-09-03, 01:21 AM	I have been looking around here and it seems a lot of people dislike the idea of human subraces. Can anyone tell me why?
Gellion 12-09-03, 06:05 AM	Originally posted by Dunelord I have been looking around here and it seems a lot of people dislike the idea of human subraces. Can anyone tell me why? I like the idea of Human subraces. The first ever Human subrace i have seen is for Forgotten Realms. They are called the Imaskari.:)
Thayde Rythylaynne 12-14-03, 10:15 AM	To: Faerun weapons’ masters In the dark time ahead that we will face together as good peoples, it is the warriors, knights, and weapons masters that will be our front line against the forces of evil. Their blades, staves, and arrows will be meaningless without, valor, bravery, and good moral judgment. In the light of this I am creating a martial school in the backyard of Thay to fight the evils of Faerun. I am also calling on representatives of all of the good deities of Faerun who specialize in combat, tactics, martial prowess, self-perfection, honor, defense, war, and combat knowledge to come and represent the best qualities of your faith, and have a voice in how this school will conduct its defense of, and offense for the good peoples of Faerun. I am calling on Dwarven, Elven, Gnomish, Halfling, and Human representatives to come together for a singular purpose, with similar abilities, and without racial prejudice. This school will not turn away a good hearted individual on the basis of race, be he or her, human, drow, half-orc, or any other. To me purity of heart and deed are more important than historical racial prejudices. Disputes between represented faiths will not be tolerated. If you cannot abide by these simple rules, please send another of your faith. This is your opportunity to show to the rest of your faith and your deity, why you have chosen your life’s path, and also to exemplify a follower of your chosen deity. There will be thirteen represented faiths. The list includes: Clangeddin Silverbeard, Haela Brightaxe, Corellon Larethian, Eilistraee, Gaerdal Ironhand, Avoreen, Anhur, Helm, Lathander, Oghma, The Red Knight, Tempus, and Tyr. Our school is in need of instructors who want and opportunity to affect life outside of their normal arena. We are looking for warriors, paladins, clerics, monks, and rangers, whom have chosen a specific fighting style and mastered it. You may come yourself or send a representative. Your sect is the first of your faith to receive such a letter from me. Should you decline I will be sending letters to other sects of your faith to give them this opportunity. My intent is to have the best. If you know of someone that you think will be interested in this opportunity, please forward this letter to him or her. Our training grounds are being built in Escalant on the Wizard’s Reach, in the southern portion of the Aglarond peninsula, on the northeast shore of the Sea of Falling Stars. The earliest representatives to answer this call will be involved with the planning, and strategic, and tactical build-out of our school. The name of our school is Swordpoint. There is only room enough for one representative per faith. May you find this letter with a good heart, and open eyes. Swift Journey, Thayde Rythylaynne
Silmarien Aldalome 12-15-03, 05:15 AM	Swordpoint! :bow: that was a great post - Weapons Masters of Faerun hey - sounds :cool: Cheers Sil Greetings Gellion - Keeper of Human Halls Greetings Dune Lord - I hear what you are saying - but we welcome the added diversity you bring, and I don't subscribe to the view that sub-races are bad. To each his own.... We are still working on the Godless Cleric...... Cheers Sil
Gellion 12-15-03, 06:47 AM	Hiya Sil. Sorry i have not posted here in a while, i am still trying to come up with ideas for the Godless Cleric. But, i have been busy once again, but that should end soon.:)
Gellion 12-16-03, 06:55 AM	I have another idea for a domain power. It could be called "THe power of Humanity" or something like that. What it would do is, lets say your party members are fighting something, and getting beaten. And some of the PCs may have even died. This ability would auto-ressurect anyone who died, would fully heal all of the PCs. As well as restore all spell slots/power points. Obviously it would be the Godless Human Cleric who did this. I will see if i can come up with some flavor text later.:)
Tenzhi 12-16-03, 06:59 AM	And this ability would be a once per week thing granted at about 20th level, right?
Gellion 12-16-03, 07:08 AM	Originally posted by Tenzhi And this ability would be a once per week thing granted at about 20th level, right? Something like that...I have not yet figured out all the details.
Tenzhi 12-16-03, 07:12 AM	Okay then. You said "Domain Power" and had me thinking this would just be the Domain Power cleric's get from level 1 when they select domains - and it's much too powerful for level 1.
Gellion 12-16-03, 07:34 AM	Originally posted by Tenzhi Okay then. You said "Domain Power" and had me thinking this would just be the Domain Power cleric's get from level 1 when they select domains - and it's much too powerful for level 1. This power will probably be for one of the domains for the godless Cleric PrC that is in development.:)
Gellion 12-20-03, 05:16 PM	:bump:
Gellion 12-21-03, 12:29 AM	I think that alignment wise. Humans tend towards some form of Neutrality the most. In the anime Slayer: Try. Humans were said as being "The power between darkness and light". Well, that quote is a bit butchered, but that is pretty close to what it said.
Gellion 12-23-03, 09:06 PM	:bump:
aravilar_holistacia 12-23-03, 10:25 PM	Hey Gell. This place dead? Hope not! What is the topic we have right now?
Gellion 12-23-03, 10:45 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Hey Gell. This place dead? Hope not! What is the topic we have right now? The development of the godless Cleric PrC.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 12-24-03, 08:36 PM	Greeting Gellion! Greetings Aravilar! Merry Christmas Human Foundation Subscribers Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Morphing Energy that intersects with multiple planes.....I'm thinking 1. Matter Annihilation 2. The equivalent of Hydrogen Fusion (i.e. "Star Burst" stuff - but - with a twist. Question: how does a "star-burst" look/feel/behave in trans-dimensional space?) "Holy Star Burst" in the negative material plane and vice-versa if you're a wicked cleric - assaulting the positive-material plane. In the Etherial Plane - "Ethereal Star-Burst"? In the Demi-Plane of Shadow - "Weave-Star-Burst"? In the Prime-Material Plane - depends what you want Gellion. Do you want "Weaveless" "Weave-Reding" "Raw Magic"? 3. Matter Coalescence is the opposite function - the Creation of something in each plane of existence. The Effect shall be called Trans-Dimensional Star Burst I'm thinking it should be at least as powerful as a Mythal in its functions. But - we don't want it to be a mythal. Transdimensional Starbust - needs some statistics. Let's start by organising the effects with some ideas about what the stats should look like. E.g. DC?, Pre-reqs?, Casting time?, Descritpions? etc. Gellion!! Ideas......what level do you want as a pre-req for this....? Cheers Sil
Gellion 12-24-03, 10:28 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Gellion!! Ideas......what level do you want as a pre-req for this....? I would say 21+.:)
Gellion 12-29-03, 01:43 AM	:bump:
aravilar_holistacia 12-29-03, 01:50 AM	Yes, epic is definitely a good prereq. Also, would there be any special prereqs? Like, an event or something?
Gellion 12-29-03, 01:57 AM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Yes, epic is definitely a good prereq. Also, would there be any special prereqs? Like, an event or something? Yeah, i would say an event is definitely in order. Although what i do not know.
Silmarien Aldalome 01-02-04, 12:52 AM	Morphing Energy that intersects with multiple planes.....I'm thinking 1. Matter Annihilation 2. The equivalent of Hydrogen Fusion (i.e. "Star Burst" stuff - but - with a twist. Question: how does a "star-burst" look/feel/behave in trans-dimensional space?) "Holy Star Burst" in the negative material plane and vice-versa if you're a wicked cleric - assaulting the positive-material plane. In the Etherial Plane - "Ethereal Star-Burst"? In the Demi-Plane of Shadow - "Weave-Star-Burst"? In the Prime-Material Plane - depends what you want Gellion. Do you want "Weaveless" "Weave-Reding" "Raw Magic"? 3. Matter Coalescence is the opposite function - the Creation of something in each plane of existence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trans-Dimensional Star Burst Scope: At least as powerful as a Mythal in power, scope and outlook. Statistics Pre-requisites: 1. 21st Level Spell Caster 2. Wizard/Sorcerer Only? whatja think? DC=I reckon 30+ on a DC check for this one. Possibly higher? Casting time=hmm, I'm in two minds here - 1 Action or a longer spell. Ideas Descritpion=pending - depending on what you want it to actually "Do"? E.g. Abjuration, Conjuraiton....etc, the school involved.
Gellion 01-02-04, 03:28 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Morphing Energy that intersects with multiple planes.....I'm thinking 1. Matter Annihilation 2. The equivalent of Hydrogen Fusion (i.e. "Star Burst" stuff - but - with a twist. Question: how does a "star-burst" look/feel/behave in trans-dimensional space?) "Holy Star Burst" in the negative material plane and vice-versa if you're a wicked cleric - assaulting the positive-material plane. In the Etherial Plane - "Ethereal Star-Burst"? In the Demi-Plane of Shadow - "Weave-Star-Burst"? In the Prime-Material Plane - depends what you want Gellion. Do you want "Weaveless" "Weave-Reding" "Raw Magic"? 3. Matter Coalescence is the opposite function - the Creation of something in each plane of existence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trans-Dimensional Star Burst Scope: At least as powerful as a Mythal in power, scope and outlook. Statistics Pre-requisites: 1. 21st Level Spell Caster 2. Wizard/Sorcerer Only? whatja think? DC=I reckon 30+ on a DC check for this one. Possibly higher? Casting time=hmm, I'm in two minds here - 1 Action or a longer spell. Ideas Descritpion=pending - depending on what you want it to actually "Do"? E.g. Abjuration, Conjuraiton....etc, the school involved. Well, i actually mainly intended it to be for Clerics. Hence a "godless Cleric". As for the effects of the "star burts" on the PMP, i would do something with raw magic. Now, we need to figure out what effects these "star burts" would have on the planes. A more exact "knowing" as you would say.;)
Gellion 01-04-04, 07:43 AM	:bump:
yautja_rule 01-04-04, 11:03 PM	As a human I know that we are born with some sort of ESP sensory package. Which in turn allows us to posses telepathy, telekenisis,clavoyance,precognition,tele chometry, and other skills that can be opened in our minds. I'm Trying to bring more reality to the game. E.S.P can be seen amongst humans. I'm talking about natural psionic humans. We humans arn't so stupid now are we? We posses something inside are heads that allows us to read minds and much much more. These are natural abilities that we can open up in our mind and use daily. I guess my question is, reading D&D material might not allow this, but is it possible to have been born with this, is it possible that someone from WoC forgot about this? Or can you point me to a book that has humans born with these skills? I simply can't find one person that knows.
Gellion 01-05-04, 03:19 AM	Originally posted by yautja_rule As a human I know that we are born with some sort of ESP sensory package. Which in turn allows us to posses telepathy, telekenisis,clavoyance,precognition,tele chometry, and other skills that can be opened in our minds. I'm Trying to bring more reality to the game. E.S.P can be seen amongst humans. I'm talking about natural psionic humans. We humans arn't so stupid now are we? We posses something inside are heads that allows us to read minds and much much more. These are natural abilities that we can open up in our mind and use daily. I guess my question is, reading D&D material might not allow this, but is it possible to have been born with this, is it possible that someone from WoC forgot about this? Or can you point me to a book that has humans born with these skills? I simply can't find one person that knows. Well if you have the Psionics Handbook. You could give all Humans some minor Psionic powers relating to what you have said.
Silmarien Aldalome 01-05-04, 06:24 PM	Greetings jautja_rule+gellion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Morphing Energy that intersects with multiple planes.....I'm thinking 1. Matter Annihilation 2. The equivalent of Hydrogen Fusion (i.e. "Star Burst" stuff - but - with a twist. Question: how does a "star-burst" look/feel/behave in trans-dimensional space?) "Holy Star Burst" in the negative material plane and vice-versa if you're a wicked cleric - assaulting the positive-material plane. In the Etherial Plane - "Ethereal Star-Burst"? In the Demi-Plane of Shadow - "Weave-Star-Burst"? In the Prime-Material Plane - depends what you want Gellion. Do you want "Weaveless" "Weave-Reding" "Raw Magic"? 3. Matter Coalescence is the opposite function - the Creation of something in each plane of existence. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trans-Dimensional Star Burst Scope: At least as powerful as a Mythal in power, scope and outlook. Statistics Pre-requisites: 1. 21st Level Spell Caster 2. Wizard/Sorcerer Only? whatja think? DC=I reckon 30+ on a DC check for this one. Possibly higher? Casting time=hmm, I'm in two minds here - 1 Action or a longer spell. Ideas Descritpion=pending - depending on what you want it to actually "Do"? E.g. Abjuration, Conjuraiton....etc, the school involved. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, i actually mainly intended it to be for Clerics. Hence a "godless Cleric". As for the effects of the "star burts" on the PMP, i would do something with raw magic. Now, we need to figure out what effects these "star burts" would have on the planes. A more exact "knowing" as you would say. OK - A more exact "gnowing" on Godless Cleric effects of Starbursts: 1. Prime Material Plane 2. Positive Material Plane 3. Negative Material Plane 4. Ethereal Plane 5. Demi-plane of Shadow 6. ....who has a Manual of the Planes to build the list properly... :) PrimeMP="Star Fire" - a Raw Magic Burst - rather hot and uncomfortable "An incandescent burst of white fire that incinerates everything it touches immediately. It's temperature so hot, that even steel combusts after 1d4 rounds of exposure to the light and heat." PostiiveMP=hmmm, it's not right to use "Holy Fire" on the PosMP. What sort of "energy burst" damages Holy creatures (beyond energy from the Negative Material Plane). In the Demi-Plane of Shadow=? Ethereal Plane=? Who knows what kinds of magic do double damage on the three planes I've tabled above? Cheers stav
yautja_rule 01-05-04, 06:52 PM	Thanks, that sounds good. I guess I should get that book! hehehe
Gellion 01-05-04, 07:07 PM	Originally posted by yautja_rule Thanks, that sounds good. I guess I should get that book! hehehe The 3.5 version is coming out in April. So if you can wait, you can get an updated version. Which i hear will be better than 3.0 Psionics.
Gellion 01-14-04, 10:19 PM	:bump:
Tenzhi 01-14-04, 10:27 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome PostiiveMP=hmmm, it's not right to use "Holy Fire" on the PosMP. What sort of "energy burst" damages Holy creatures (beyond energy from the Negative Material Plane). Elemental energies are, by design, specifically affected by their opposing element. So, Negative Energy would be the best to use against Positive elementals (Positive energy, BTW, isn't necessarily "Holy").
Gellion 01-14-04, 10:32 PM	Originally posted by Tenzhi (Positive energy, BTW, isn't necessarily "Holy"). Yeah, i meant to say something like that. If you get too much PE in you, you will explode, or something like that.:confused: *Explodes and implodes at the same time*
Gellion 01-16-04, 07:19 AM	The reason i am posting this is so people who dont feel like reading through the whole thread can see it. Avatar Dweomer Master Humans who have an excessive burning ambition and drive towards mastery occasionally create a Destiny for themselves that surpasses all knowledge, convention, expectation and known limits. This Journey of Emergence is a profound expression of human potential - and is neither straight-forward, easy, and certainly not without great risk, and pain. All matter of the Universe is manufactured in stars. Stars begin the creation of matter with basic elements and by way of Fusion, create heavier elements - and so planetary matter, cosmic dust, and all the building blocks of life come from stars. An Avatar Dweomer Master has discovered and learned mastery over the very forces of matter and nature. That is, you recognise how to "manifest the energy of stardust" that is locked deeply within every human body. This mastery resides in the space between Magical Energy and the Energy of Matter. Together, these two basic forces of life are unlocked by the Avatar Dweomer Master who has learned to control these wild forces of nature. A human being of very high level, who is protected by the highest level Abjurations known to mages, and whose very body has collided with basic forces of nature - produces a Synergy Effect that results in the Annihilation of Body and the Immersion of Mind into the very Essence of the Universe. This is a collision of Law, Chaos, Evil, Good, Transformation, Transmutation, Evocation and Abjuration, results in a giant explosion that opens a trans-temporal portal - into the Space beyond Space, and Time Beyond Time. This experience to the human cannot be characterised by word, voice, or phrase, but the expression "to be blasted into annihilation with Mind in-tact" partially describes the process. In the No-Sphere of No-Time and No-Space, the Human is transformed. And if she chooses, she may re-corporate and return to the material plane, but she is forever irrevocably altered. Prerequisites 1. Any spell caster who can cast at least 9thlevel Abjuration. 2. Wisdom of 22 or higher. 3. An outstanding experience which challenged a characters core beliefs about absolutism and black and white thinking. To even begin to glean the mysteries of the universe, a person must be able to think outside of all learned convention and learned knowledge. Thus, the Human must have had a very serious challenge to their existing belief system before they can access Avatar statsu. 4. Maturity. Characters must be out of their young adulthood. 5. At least two Wisdom based Feats. 6. At least four Metamagic Feats. Class Skills Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (the Planes), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Arcana), Concentration, Spellcraft, Alchemy. Skill Points 4+Intelligence Modifier (i.e. as per Wizard) Class Features Weapon & Armour Proficiency as per parent Class Spells At every level, the character gains spell slots as if she had gained a level in the spellcasting/ranger class she belonged to. However, she does not gain any other benefits of the parent class that would have been gained with level advancement (feats, special abilities). If the character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Freewalker, she must decide which class to add the new Prestige Class to for the purposes of determining spells per day. The following table applies, even though this is an Epic Level PrC. Avatar Dweomer Master Statistics code:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lvl BAB Fort Ref Will 1 +1 +2 +0 +2 Avatar Dweomer Adept 2 +2 +3 +0 +3 Avatar Dweomer Principle 3 +3 +3 +1 +3 Avatar Dweomer Kindler 4 +4 +4 +1 +4 Avatar Dweomer Ascendant 5 +5 +4 +2 +4 Avatar Dweomer Master-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Avatar Dweomer Adept 1. At first level, you may Counter-Magic as a free action, and without need or recourse to spells. You are so in touch with Native Magical Energy that it is yours to command freely. 2. You also learn to command the basic forces of nature: air, fire, water and earth - but in Epic proportions. This enables you, for example, to create storms, deserts, hurricanes, earthquakes, tidal waves, create fires over vast areas of land, or alternatively, you may stop these same effects. Any force of nature is yours to command. There is a DC check associated with use of this function code:-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Proportion of Event DC-Check Small effect 15 Small-Moderate effect 20 Moderate effect 25 Moderate-large effect 30 Large effect 35 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your DM will moderate these effects, and she will determine what is "small" versus "large". But, this is a Wisdom Based ability - and involves the interaction of Existential Energy (created by the Mind) with the forces of Nature. The Avatar adds their Wisdom Bonus to dice roll, and adds 5 per PrC Level (so a Large Effect has a 50-50 chance of success at maximum PrC level on a D-20 roll unmodified by Wisdom). 3. Weaveless Casting. You may cast all your spells without drawing on the Weave. Avatar Dweomer Principle 1. You may create a Weaveless Mythallar. These effects are to be moderated by your DM, but may include basic Mythallar functions, such as Float City. 2. Alter Season. You may actually shift the Plantary Axis (the Procession of the planetary orbit) to literally change the current season. 3. Deepen Seasonal Effects. You may add degrees or subtract degrees of tilt to the Planetary Axis. If 'more tilt' was introduced, you could make both summers and winters more severe. Days would lengthen and shorten between solstices and equinoxes appropriately. Avatar Dweomer Kindler Change Sun's Energy. This function may make change the actual colour of a sun. So, you might change a yellow sun to a hotter sun (a blue sun) or to a cooler sun (a red sun). Avatar Dweomer Ascendent 1. Explode or Create Sun/Planet: Your power has increased to such an extent that you can actually destroy or create a sun. The former disperses the sun's elements into space, the latter coalesces matter (Hydrogen). 2. Rip Space: this is a rending of "space". The effect is to disrupt all things in the Prime Material Plane inside the area of effect. It is a rending of the actual substance of the prime material plane - and the creation of Dark Matter or Dark Energy from Space. Dark Matter cannot be seen, measured or felt and neither can Dark Energy. These "zones" are not noticed as one passes through them (after the effect). They are in Unspace or Non-Space. But this effect causes Shar to accummulate Power into the Shadow Weave and disrupts the balances between deities. 3. Create Life: You are so in tune with Life Force that you can reverse entropy and create Life from Lifelessness. 4. Shift Planetary Orbit: you learn how to shift the obit of a planet either more close to the sun, or further away. Avatar Dweomer Master 1. Avatar Status: this spell is akin to Karsus' Avatar - it permits you to subsume another Deity into your "portfolio" thereby increasing your power. But, when you interfere with Deific boundary-space, you will attract the attention of several deities. 2. Life-Extension: you glean mastery over flesh to such extent that your body becomes Timeless.
yautja_rule 01-16-04, 11:04 AM	Gellion, you sir are a genius. That is unbeleivble. So far, that is the best thing I've read on these boards. Did you make this up, and where is the full post?
Gellion 01-16-04, 03:57 PM	Originally posted by yautja_rule Gellion, you sir are a genius. That is unbeleivble. So far, that is the best thing I've read on these boards. Did you make this up, and where is the full post? Actually Silmarien Aldalome made it. I am sure you have already met him. So, give him the credit.:) And that is the whole PrC. But the original post is on page nine.
Silmarien Aldalome 01-16-04, 09:00 PM	Hi everyone - great to see activity here. Gellion - thanx for re-posting the ADM - Let's get the creative juices going for this godless cleric thing. Tenzhi - thanx for the prompt. OK - the essence of the Godless Cleric - is what I wanna look at. What is it, and where does the "power" come from. Godless clerics are human beings who have discovered what it means to be Divine but in mortal form. The ordinary kind of cleric - manifests Divine Energy by drawing on the power of the Weave - but limited by the overseeing Deity. A godless cleric, however, is a human being who by Divine Insight, has come to "exist with" the very essence of Divinity. In this state, there is no "external power source" and the human can commune with "univeral energy" (i.e. as per Wish spell) and channel this into amazing forms, processes and outcomes..... More soon on "how humans discover how"... sil
kedi 01-16-04, 09:38 PM	Godless Divine Spell Caster: Cultist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164461)
Gellion 01-17-04, 01:07 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Hi everyone - great to see activity here. Gellion - thanx for re-posting the ADM - Let's get the creative juices going for this godless cleric thing. Tenzhi - thanx for the prompt. OK - the essence of the Godless Cleric - is what I wanna look at. What is it, and where does the "power" come from. Godless clerics are human beings who have discovered what it means to be Divine but in mortal form. The ordinary kind of cleric - manifests Divine Energy by drawing on the power of the Weave - but limited by the overseeing Deity. A godless cleric, however, is a human being who by Divine Insight, has come to "exist with" the very essence of Divinity. In this state, there is no "external power source" and the human can commune with "univeral energy" (i.e. as per Wish spell) and channel this into amazing forms, processes and outcomes..... More soon on "how humans discover how"... sil What i am going to do soon hopefully. Is find all the info for the GC, and print it out. For some reason, doing things the old fashioned way(i.e. pencil) is easier for me at times. Then i will post what i can come up with.
Gellion 01-17-04, 01:10 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome OK - the essence of the Godless Cleric - is what I wanna look at. What is it, and where does the "power" come from. Godless clerics are human beings who have discovered what it means to be Divine but in mortal form. The ordinary kind of cleric - manifests Divine Energy by drawing on the power of the Weave - but limited by the overseeing Deity. A godless cleric, however, is a human being who by Divine Insight, has come to "exist with" the very essence of Divinity. In this state, there is no "external power source" and the human can commune with "univeral energy" (i.e. as per Wish spell) and channel this into amazing forms, processes and outcomes..... Well, i would sort of thinking of it as, seeing the "true" source of divinity. Which not even the gods have seen. The Godless Cleric can peer beyond the veil of magic itself, and see "raw divinity". The very stuff of the multiverse.
Gellion 01-18-04, 10:50 PM	:bump:
Gellion 01-29-04, 09:01 PM	:bump:
Gellion 01-29-04, 09:03 PM	Originally posted by kedi Godless Divine Spell Caster: Cultist (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164461) Ummm, not to be rude Kedi. But did you even read all the stuff that is getting posted?
Silmarien Aldalome 01-30-04, 02:04 AM	Originally posted by Gellion Well, i would sort of thinking of it as, seeing the "true" source of divinity. Which not even the gods have seen. The Godless Cleric can peer beyond the veil of magic itself, and see "raw divinity". The very stuff of the multiverse. C'arn everyone - get postin' I'm sure Tenzh-mann has many a thing to add about "divine-energy" - and the links between the normal route (Divinity/Weave-Deity-Subject) versus the new alternative we're discussing (Divinity/Weave-Subject - cutting out the middle man). Prerequisites There is no one pathway to Godless-Divinity. But - each Pathway is its own distinct Road. The Mystics say that sometimes, "it's as if struck by Lightning - a bolt out of the Blue - and suddenly the world is Changed forever. Where before the world was Grey and Bland - a functional Universe of Known Form. Suddenly - all about is for Amazement, Grace, Beauty and Light." For others - the Road to the Godless Cleric is a slow and steady walk - the slow retracting of a lifetime of false learnings. A Moment Here of Inspiration and Grace the return to normality - then the opening Again - like the opening and closing of a floodgate. For others again, Ascention is Found through Breath and Body - or tantric experiences of Divine Life. Of one thing we are certain: no pathway is without Suffering. In any case, when the Divine Expression is manifested in Bodily Form, the Realm of Endless Possibility opens up before the Godless Cleric. Here, light, matter, form and energy are Perceived. And, the Birth of a Godless Cleric is a dangerous experience. The sudden overwhelming Insights may lead to violent storms, earth-chaning events, or fundamental shifts in the Fabric of Reality. This is the Time of Chaos - when the Godless Cleric is exerting Mastery over Light, Matter, Form and Energy.
Tenzhi 01-30-04, 02:55 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome I'm sure Tenzh-mann has many a thing to add about "divine-energy" Not really. The whole "binding energy of the universe/raw divinty" thing pretty much covers it. If I were to add anything, it would be my belief that Arcane and Divine spellcasters (and Psionicists, really) both draw from the same well, they're just using different buckets. To take it even further with the "godless cleric" idea, I might suggest creating a new "Universal" form of spellcasting that surpasses/encompasses/unites the principles of the other forms.
kedi 01-30-04, 06:18 PM	Welcome. I’m here to tell you all that the all races foundation is now opened. Wish to see you soon there. <<All Races Foundation>> (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173715) :D The bard has sung!
Gellion 02-02-04, 07:21 AM	:bump:
Silmarien Aldalome 02-02-04, 07:31 AM	Originally posted by Tenzhi Not really. The whole "binding energy of the universe/raw divinty" thing pretty much covers it. If I were to add anything, it would be my belief that Arcane and Divine spellcasters (and Psionicists, really) both draw from the same well, they're just using different buckets. To take it even further with the "godless cleric" idea, I might suggest creating a new "Universal" form of spellcasting that surpasses/encompasses/unites the principles of the other forms. Hi Gellion+Kedi Tenzhi - hmm - I was curious to hear your thoughts about "pre-conditions" for accessing godless cleric. Any thoughts about conditions that foster enlightenment? Cheers sil
Gellion 02-02-04, 07:34 AM	Well, i believe Psions draw purely from their own mind, but that is getting off-topic. I have to go, but i will be back later today.:) :behold: 666th post:devil:
Gellion 02-04-04, 04:38 PM	:bump:
Gellion 02-08-04, 12:57 AM	Hiya everybody. I made a new base class called "The Hero From Another World" I am putting a link here because it is a Human only class. Here is a link.:) http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178676 Please let me know what you think. I am open to suggestions for improvemnt.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 02-08-04, 01:04 AM	looks great Gell. I like the idea about "transporting to another world". Sort of like Julian May and the Golden Torc series. Cheers stav
Gellion 02-08-04, 01:08 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome looks great Gell. I like the idea about "transporting to another world". Sort of like Julian May and the Golden Torc series. Cheers stav I have no idea what you are talking about. But i have always been fond of Cross-Worlds Fantasy. That was probably the first type of fantasy i was ever introduced to, so it has a special place in my heart.:) But, like i said, i am open to suggestions for improvement.:) With that class i am trying to best emulate the luck hero from another world. Ya know, the guy who defeats the big monster through sheer luck.:)
Hustler One 02-12-04, 11:01 AM	I haven't read the entire thread so pardon me... I've gone through many many characters during my time of playing D&D. And I have only strayed from humans three times. A Halforc Fighter, A HalfElf Rogue, and a Weretiger Ranger. There is just something about playing the Human that I enjoy. They may not get the Stats or special abilities of the Elves or Orcs, or Half Dragons and such. The extra feat and what not helps to add to the versatility of the Humans as well as humans can do or be whatever they wish. I would like to join. As for Alignment. I think in general, Humans are LN. Your everyday average Joe/Jane outnumbers the corrupted greed fueled corporate money monger and the responsible kind hearted charity worker. Joe or Jane is working class and more then often will help out himself/herself, his/her friends, and his/her family. And polite and helpful to a stranger. (Unless you are in New York.) Kidding really. =p
Frostbite_Ravenheart 02-12-04, 06:20 PM	Originally posted by Hustler One . (Unless you are in New York.) Watch it buddy...New York is mostly big forest and farms filled with nice people...even in the citys everyone isent that bad.
Hustler One 02-12-04, 06:59 PM	I meant it as a joke. I guess I forgot to put the little J/K in there.
Gellion 02-12-04, 07:07 PM	You can join, just put that you are a member in your sig.:)
Hustler One 02-12-04, 07:10 PM	Do I get to have Member# 00? ^_^
Gellion 02-12-04, 07:55 PM	Originally posted by Hustler One Do I get to have Member# 00? ^_^ Due to the new policy on foundations, there can be no more numbers. Although the WizOs do not really bother, or at least not me. I beleive you would be Member # 18 though. There is no member # 00.:)
Gellion 02-16-04, 08:55 PM	:bump:
Hustler One 02-16-04, 09:17 PM	Well I meant. 00? the ? being my number :) I like some of the ideas about tribes and things. Reminds me of the indians. Hmm....
Gellion 02-16-04, 09:20 PM	Originally posted by Hustler One Well I meant. 00? the ? being my number :) I like some of the ideas about tribes and things. Reminds me of the indians. Hmm.... Errrrr, sure you can have 00.:)
Hustler One 02-17-04, 09:32 AM	Do the Oriental Adventures have a different setup for Humans? Or are they the same as Humans in the PHB? Different societies give different things. Kinda like in the FCW. They have different background feats and things for different societies.
Silmarien Aldalome 02-18-04, 03:55 PM	G'day Hustler-One welcome. And also to Frosty+Gellion. I'd like to see some ideas developed about humans with different lifespans, difference competencies (clustered feat series - with some more Lore-like, and others more War-like). To Huster-One - we've also got work-in-progress for a Godless Cleric here - ongoing for a number of months now. Join in if you would like to. Cheers Sil
Gellion 02-26-04, 08:53 PM	:bump:
Silmarien Aldalome 02-26-04, 09:50 PM	Trans-Dimensional Starburst Evocation Spellcraft DC: 67 (adjust by choice of Factors & Mitigating Factors at Casting Time) Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: 300 ft. or touched creature of object of 2000lb or less Area: A bolt 5 ft. Wide to 300 ft. Long; or a 5-ft radius emanation; or a wall whose area is up to 200 ft. Square; or a sphere or hemisphere with a radius of up to 20 ft. Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex Half Spell Resistance: Yes To Develop: 603,000 gp; 12 days; 24,120 XP; Seed: Energy, Transform, Transport (DC: 67). Factor: increase radius to 1000 ft. (+196 DC); increase range to 1,500 ft. (+8 DC); for every plane touched (+10 DC); increase damage (+2DC for each additional 1d6). Mitigating Factors: increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), burn 5,000XP (-50 DC); For extra caster contributing a 9th Level Spell slot (-17 DC); Backlash 1d6 points of damage (-1 DC for each 1d6) Godless Clerics are beings who consciously exist in multiple planes of existence in the one moment. In truth, all humans' essence straddles multiple planes, but the vast majority of people are unaware that this is the case. The Godless Cleric may use her or his "sense" of multiple planes to propel energy into multiple planes in one casting. When this spell is cast, the Godless Cleric creates an aura of blue energy, that initially surrounds his hands and illuminates a 1,000 ft area with its brightness. To onlookers, this energy is like a miniature sun and it burns so fiercely that it can be seen and heard from a mile away. It is as bright as daylight and emits a deep roaring sound that also causes the ground to tremble. With the final utterance of the spell, the Energy is propelled as a searing Bolt (that moves at the speed of light and detonates with an explosive "boom" upon impact) or converted into a wall, or sphere or hemisphere. For a DC of 67, the caster gets to propel the Energy into a second plane (as well as the PMP) simultaneously. For every +10 to the DC, the caster may add another Plane. Thus, for a DC of 77, the Caster could affect, for example, the PMP, the Demiplane of Shadow and the Negative Material Plane all at once. The extra-dimensional bolt thus is a searing force that straddles multiples planes of existence. Upon impact, the damage to creatures affected is a base 10d6 + 1d6 for every additional 2 added to the DC to cast the spell. Thus, a 30d6 burst, would have a base DC of 107, and backlash of, say 10 d6 damage, DC of 97. Multiple Godless Clerics may combine to cast the spell, to lower the DC of the spell and improve its power.
Gellion 02-26-04, 09:57 PM	Wishes there was a clapping smiley.:) Heheehehehehe:) :) :)
Tenzhi 02-28-04, 01:54 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Trans-Dimensional Starburst Kame... Area: A bolt 5 ft. Wide to 300 ft. Long; Hame... With the final utterance of the spell, the Energy is propelled as a searing Bolt (that moves at the speed of light and detonates with an explosive "boom" upon impact) HA!!! :behold:
Silmarien Aldalome 02-28-04, 02:03 AM	Originally posted by Tenzhi Kame... Hame... HA!!! :behold: :rofl: .....if caster vocalises with a "Huaaahhh" - reduce DC by 10 but attract AoO's....
Gellion 03-12-04, 01:19 AM	:bump:
Silmarien Aldalome 03-14-04, 05:38 AM	Godless Clerics also develop specialist skills in disrupting the status-quo amongst the Pantheon. Because they are in tune with the Divinity of Life without resort to Iconic Imagery - they are the iconoclasts of the Dungeons of Fantasy Campaign settings. Consquently, they are considered threatening to established religions, by their pursuit of independent inner spirituality. At high level, they can disrupt a Deity's power, subsume Divine Portfolios, and expand their Divinity to vast and unimaginable heights. Class Abilities - Godless Cleric Transdimensional Starburst Immobilise Deity Subsume Deity Intersect Realities Modify The Weave Immobilise Deity Divine Energy that radiates from an ordinary Deity, ripples out into Realmspace by way of the Weave. This "rippling" of meta-energy, has a characteristic signature, and Godless Clerics have transcended this mode of expression and can use a Deity's "Divine Signature" to immobilise. When a Deity is in the vicinity of a Godless Cleric, your character may draw in the strands of Radiant Divinity, with the marshalling of Body, Mind and Spirit. In essence, you Mirror the Energy Signature of the Deity you have targeted, and by successfully concentration, can reflect the Deity's Energy back upon themselves. This effect is highly dangerous. Apart from drawing the attention of the entire pantheon to you, if you do not have the requisite Will - you may be consumed by your own attempt.
Gellion 03-14-04, 06:09 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Godless Clerics also develop specialist skills in disrupting the status-quo amongst the Pantheon. Because they are in tune with the Divinity of Life without resort to Iconic Imagery - they are the iconoclasts of the Dungeons of Fantasy Campaign settings. Consquently, they are considered threatening to established religions, by their pursuit of independent inner spirituality. At high level, they can disrupt a Deity's power, subsume Divine Portfolios, and expand their Divinity to vast and unimaginable heights. Class Abilities - Godless Cleric Transdimensional Starburst Immobilise Deity Subsume Deity Intersect Realities Modify The Weave Immobilise Deity Divine Energy that radiates from an ordinary Deity, ripples out into Realmspace by way of the Weave. This "rippling" of meta-energy, has a characteristic signature, and Godless Clerics have transcended this mode of expression and can use a Deity's "Divine Signature" to immobilise. When a Deity is in the vicinity of a Godless Cleric, your character may draw in the strands of Radiant Divinity, with the marshalling of Body, Mind and Spirit. In essence, you Mirror the Energy Signature of the Deity you have targeted, and by successfully concentration, can reflect the Deity's Energy back upon themselves. This effect is highly dangerous. Apart from drawing the attention of the entire pantheon to you, if you do not have the requisite Will - you may be consumed by your own attempt. THANK YOU for the summary. I will be honest. I have been lazy, but putting that little list together has motivated me know.:)
Gellion 03-14-04, 10:04 AM	For the subsuming of divine portfolios. Maybe something like, the Godless Cleric can "see" the very essence that makes up what ever the divine portfolio happens to be. Thus allowing them to be able to "meta-ly" grap hold of it and try to yank it from the deity. Well, that is what I was able to come up with.:)
Gellion 03-22-04, 09:12 PM	Kerr:bump:
Gellion 03-23-04, 04:42 PM	I have an idea for a Psionic based Human only possible epic level PrC. I am for now, going to call it the Imaginist. Unfortunatelty, since the 3.5 PsiHB is not out yet, I do not know much how 3.5 Psionics are like. I do know a bit though, here is a basic outline for the PrC. And a cool quote. I would prefer to believe that the human imagination is the holographic organ of the human body, and that we don't "imagine" anything... we simply see things so far away that there is no possibility of validating or invalidating their existence... - Terence McKenna The Imaginist A lot of imagination based effects Manipulation of places the user imagines A lot of Intelligence based effects That is all I have for now. And the GC is still chugging along. :)
Silmarien Aldalome 03-23-04, 07:23 PM	Gellion - great idea about the "sensing" faculty. Subsume Deity Unlike Immobilise Deity, the Subsume Deity goes a step further. The radiant Divine Energy of a Deity is intrinsically bound to Weave. Divine Energy typically requires the Weave to express itself, being a transformation of Raw Magic. It is akin to the Karsus Avatar spell - but is a faculty available to Godless Clerics instead of Arcane casters. The Rippling of Divine Meta-Energy through Realmspace can be reflected back upon the Deity of origin, and with immense Will and Focus, the strands of Radiant Divinity can be dislodged from the origin Deity and integrated into Self-hood. This process does not come without risk. The Origin Deity has a particular "Divine Signature" that is a reflection of the unique characteristics of that Deity: their orientations, strengths, weaknesses, persona and shadow. The subsumption of a Deity brings you into contact with the all of the Deity - and the "goodness of fit" between you and the Deity will influence the relative risk of destroying yourself or going insane in the process. Spell Mechanics The Target Deity must first be "sensed" which requires a Spellcraft Check (DC=150). Whether or not you are successful, the Target Deity detects your attempt and you draw attention to yourself. If you have been successful with this initial attempt - you must calculate a Goodness of Fit coefficient, based on the following parameters: 1. Number of overlapping Skills with Deity minus Number of non-overlapping Skills with Deity. 2. Number of overlapping Feats with Deity minus Number of non-overalapping Feats with Deity. 3. Number of shared Classes minus Number of non-shared Classes. 4. Degree of closeness in racial features. Assign a score of +10 through to -10 depending on the similarity versus dissimiliarity of you with the target. 5. Degree of Fit with Deity's Alignment (scored as +10, through to -10 calculated as follows): +1 for identical alignment. 0 for 1 off, and -1 for diametrically opposed. Multiply result by 10. Then: Modify this score by your Wisdom Modifier. Then: Divide this score by the maximum score you could get for the theorectical "Perfect Fit" (not including Wisdom mod). The result is a probability of success. A negative percentage is an automatic fail. A percentage of 100 or over is an automatic success. I love the Imagination thing - I'll give comment on it after other people get involved: Tenzhi, Zollex, Anglar - comments?
Gellion 04-03-04, 10:23 PM	Well, the mechanics seem fairly sound.:) I have put some though into the Imaginist PrC, but I sort of need the new PsiHB(which isnt even out yet) to really work on it.
Tenzhi 04-03-04, 11:38 PM	I like the "Imaginist" concept (very Green Lantern-ish). I'm trying to think of a name I like better, though... Psychetect... Imagineer... something that evokes creation of the Real using the building materials of the Imaginary.
Gellion 04-07-04, 10:06 PM	:bump: Hmmm, I do not want to add even more than there already is but... I think that all Humans have both a light and dark side. Most Humans are Neutral, but there are those who lean towards either the light side, or the dark side(Hence alignments).
Finwe 04-14-04, 11:56 PM	You don't know the power of the dark side! ;) Let me be the first to welcome you to the new Guild House, or foundations board. All it costs to stay here is to send a magic item worth at least 20,000 GP to each of your GM's (me, sil and orcy) once per month. Seriously: Welcome to the new board. You are now free of the shackles of having to stay on topic for the particular board you are in. Now you can role-play, discuss rules or just generally chat. Enjoy!
Gellion 04-17-04, 01:44 AM	Hi all:) Look, I will not be able to be on much. My computer quasi died on me. Now I am stuck with a crappy dial up connection. And as of right now, I can only use the net really late at night. I am hoping to get a new computer. This one is over six years old.
Galeros 04-23-04, 04:53 PM	Hello All.:) This is actually Gellion, but for somer reason I cant get onto him right now. Just letting everyone know that I am alive.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 04-23-04, 11:36 PM	Originally posted by Galeros Hello All.:) This is actually Gellion, but for somer reason I cant get onto him right now. Just letting everyone know that I am alive.:) Well Met Galeros-Gellion. Slayer of the Seldarine Pantheon. Where are we up to in your PC thing - are you returned from the lands of cyber-oblivion? Have you replaced the steggasausus rex with a warm blooded mammalian species? And - which part of the godless cleric do you want to develop. Hi everyone. Thanx Tenzh-mann
Galeros 04-23-04, 11:41 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Well Met Galeros-Gellion. Slayer of the Seldarine Pantheon. Where are we up to in your PC thing - are you returned from the lands of cyber-oblivion? Have you replaced the steggasausus rex with a warm blooded mammalian species? And - which part of the godless cleric do you want to develop. Hi everyone. Thanx Tenzh-mann Indeed I have gotten a new computer.:) Much better than the old one. As for the RP thing. I am going to have to do a bit of catch up. But I should be back in the fray soon.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 04-26-04, 10:23 PM	The Half-Elven study the humans as they convene in their halls. Eager the humans seem, and full of potency and passion. It is difficult to stop their tongues - for the Humans have ambition that burns as brightly as the sun. The Human Loremasters continue to discuss the Godless Clerics - who are a new movement in the lands. The Godless Clerics are a force to be feared. Even the Pantheon watch on closely, looking to see how things will fare.
Galeros 04-27-04, 04:40 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome The Half-Elven study the humans as they convene in their halls. Eager the humans seem, and full of potency and passion. It is difficult to stop their tongues - for the Humans have ambition that burns as brightly as the sun. The Human Loremasters continue to discuss the Godless Clerics - who are a new movement in the lands. The Godless Clerics are a force to be feared. Even the Pantheon watch on closely, looking to see how things will fare. OOC: Yes, yes. We need to get going again. I believe we were talking about the class abilities. I belive next is Intersect Realities? Perhaps bringing objects or things from one plane onto another without going to the other plane itself. Or even mixing the qualities of different dimenions together to create somethign entirely new. A good example would be the mixing of the planes of Fire and Water, creating steam. That is just an example though.:)
Kevmann 04-29-04, 01:17 AM	OOC: Hello all! Man, time to shake off the cobwebs off of my dark armor :-) So I come on to the races board to see that my *ahem* the humans board was moved to here! I am glad to see that we are now allowed to role-play, since we were banished from doing so before... Man that was cool... ... So, who are we taking over now? Have my armies been decimated or are we just waiting to strike the crippling blow? What do I need to update on the opening post of this thread? Are we still keeping up with member numbers or is that kaput? And someone quickly catch me up on the story. I am not saying I am jumping in (little time for that) but I would like to know what has been happening since I left! -Kevmann the Black
Silmarien Aldalome 04-29-04, 01:48 AM	KEVMANN! *gasps* Are you back to stay mister? Or just popping in - for a quick cuppa tea? WELCOME! Tell us your story man - are you married yet? Stav (I'm glad you like the RP-return) - so Dark Lord and Usurper - *grins* - ...Sil studies this human Kevmann - as she flicks her long hair silver-blond over her shoulder. "Is thine wish still for the humans to displace the other races - that all Realmspace be the domain of your Kin?" She holds the Runestaff before him - and you see a hint of Bluefire in her eyes - as the Staff glows with a gentle blue aura".
EerieOne 04-29-04, 03:04 PM	Upps, this is my wifes account... -Kevmann
Kevmann 04-29-04, 03:08 PM	OOC: HEY SILMARIEN!!! Yea, I am married now. And although it would be alot of fun, I don't think I have the time to commit to posting alot here on the boards. I still live down here in Austin although now I work as a salesman at Dell Computers. But heck, hows it going with you? Dwe have a rp story going like the good old days? Or is it pretty much free style? LOL, one of these days I am acctualy going to stat up good old Kevmann the Usurper and see what I come up with. With alot of the new books, I am sure he would be a paragon human, mabie even have the epic paragon template :-) What happened after I left the old world? What happened to the humans? Who took over when I was gone? -Kevmann the Usurper
Galeros 04-29-04, 04:13 PM	Originally posted by Kevmann What happened after I left the old world? What happened to the humans? Who took over when I was gone? I am Gellion, but I am having account trouble with that SN. I am more or less now the leader of the foundation. Course that really does not mean much with the new foundation rules.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 04-29-04, 08:25 PM	Hi there Gellion - & Galeros - great to see you dude. We're permitted some fully Off Topic posting - for special occasions. This is definitely one of 'em. We haven't seen Kev for yonks. To Kevmann - first of all Congratulations on your marriage. That's fantastic news. Shade Girl land hey - make sure she doesn't channel too much of the Drow psyche. *grins* I'm working very hard - three jobs (the way I like it - keeps boredom away. Some recent awful news about a young woman (Deb, in her 30's) who was a friend who vanished from the prime material plane due to very sudden illness. We got The Guild House - Gifted to us. It was preceeded by the Foundation Guidelines V1 (Grrrrr) and a multi-hundred discussion at Meta Boards (a Sil thread). It was called The Use and Misuse of Discretion on threads - and was as WizO Sith put it a very "genteel" flame war (in a way) - but it was more than that - we warmed up into something productive - and over several hundred posts - developed some great ideas about thread ethics, CoC awareness and play. It was a vibrant discussion between WizOs and Posters - and a melting pot of ideas, concepts (and some hot faces). We explored IC extensively on that thread - and developed some ideas about IC tools for On-Topic posting. Something not really considered before at WotC. Doxxie had ideas for the Foundations from a long time ago, me thinks - and we did what we could to add to the formula. We directly confronted anti-foundation sentiment (outside of the foundations of course) *smiles* - and it was hard but exciting work. And so - I can do this now - and not get into trouble: IC Update (in IC): Sil is obviously very happy to see Kevmann - her eyes are alight with joy. Verily Lord Kevmann - much is changed in the world since our last meeting. Gellion, Sil and Kevmann are standing 4000 feet above the Great Plateau, where the Ancient Forest runs North, West and South for as far as the eye can see. Behind them - to the East - are the Great Mountains - that run North-South for hundreds of leagues, whose pinnacles are graced in white and bathed in cloud. A brisk breeze blows Sil's hair about her shoulders, and Kevmann stands to his full stature before Gellion and Sil. Sil studies this human - and she sees Joy has returned to him also - and that his Journey from here forwards is uncertain and new. As an Agent of Free Will - she cannot know how he has changed in the one hundred years since the Siege began outside Pnatemul. For - he is who he is and will be what he chooses. But - this we know of Darkness - that if Kevmann rescinds the Dark Lord's Mantle - another will replace him at Pnatemul. For sandwitched between the Great Forest and the Mountains - is Pnatemul - and the Great Watch continues. It is now 100 years into the Siege of Pnatemul - and the Rent outside the Gates remains unsealed. The Elves hold sway, but 100 years is a long time for the contrivances of the spirit of the Dark Lord. And every day the Humans birth more children, while the Elves' numbers grow only slowly. Sil hopes - with all her heart - that Kevmann will work to bring Humans to their Home. She sweeps the folds of her robes about her, the Silver folds glyphed with Mithril at the hems - and she locks eyes with him and says: "Much has transpired. A vampiric Mythallar has been introduced to Evermeet - that steels the souls of spent mages to fuel the Mythal there. The city is become corrupt, and the Elves callous. And the Mythallar developed a crack - that the Mythal was failing. A Chosen, Castor Troy - was lost in the Underground Labyrinths of Evermeet - to the Mythallar - but it is not certain what has become of him. I feel his presence is with Shar - but she fears him - and he seeks the Karstone. I'm not sure what he is - and what he attempts. Evermeet was beseiged by Drow and Demon - but the Drow turned on themselves. The siege is broken." She turns to Gellion - who has returned from the Far Realms. "However - our Liege Gellion - has consumed or imprisoned the Seldarine Pantheon (beyond Realmspace). Their powers are weakened in Realmspace - and there is a vast power vacuum and the Laws of Magic remain uncertain." At this point - she becomes joyous and says: "I am married to Anglar Goldstems - and we venture in the Underdark - to rescue my cousin Silimna. Frostbite Ravenheart has been taken captive by the Drow - and we hope to meet up with him." She bows and says "a great day Lord Kevmann!"
thasis 05-17-04, 10:49 PM	All hail the humans!!! Amen!!! (secretly shoots the priest with a .45 calibur)
Galeros 05-17-04, 10:51 PM	Originally posted by thasis All hail the humans!!! Amen!!! (secretly shoots the priest with a .45 calibur) YAY!!!!! to the first part.:) :confused: to the second.
thasis 05-17-04, 10:55 PM	All I can say is I don't like religion!!!
Galeros 05-17-04, 10:56 PM	Originally posted by thasis All I can say is I don't like religion!!! Oh, ok.:)
thasis 05-17-04, 11:06 PM	By the way when I say I hate religion I don't mean to insult people out there who are religios. It's just my personel choice. I don't hate people because there religious though so don't think I'm going to insult you religious people... Though I still will bash religion. So if you have a problem, to bad!
Azer Firelord 05-31-04, 10:55 PM	Molth Kul drops by the human foundation @ Thasis: ok, pls keep it to yourself though. Now we all know human racial modifiers- they get +2 Cha, -2 Con, can move an additional 10ft except when wearing armour, and so on and so forth. So, what is it about humans that makes them so numerous and powerful?
Galeros 06-01-04, 05:23 AM	Originally posted by Azer Firelord So, what is it about humans that makes them so numerous and powerful? I beleive it is Human ambition and potential. In most fantasy stuff, Humans are always portrayed as being higly ambitious.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 06-01-04, 07:15 PM	Hi there Azer, Galeros & Thasis. Now we all know human racial modifiers- they get +2 Cha, -2 Con, can move an additional 10ft except when wearing armour, and so on and so forth *chuckles* - Numerous and powerful? Rapid reproduction, big families, shortsighted about matters relating to nature, ecology, ecosystems. It's our brains. We use them to defy the pressures of nature. As to why, compared to Elves and Dwarves and the other races? Elves, maybe it's a "mental" thing, or alternatively and "body" thing. We know little about Elven gestation - and as has been pointed out by the Elf-Bane - only assume that they're mammalian. I believe he speculated that Elves are born from Plant Pods. Dwarves - well Tolk...:censored: suggested that the male:female dwarf ration was 3:1 - which would explain a lot. Orcs - I'd have thought were prolific breeders, and I dunno about halflings... cheers stav
Galeros 07-07-04, 03:33 AM	Okay, Im back.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 07-09-04, 01:05 AM	...She sees the human gait of Galeros - whose tall form is a kind of reassurance. For, humans are populous and their children are many, healthy and quickly grown. In these times, the Dark Lord is besieged. Within his fortress, are many thousands of evil humans. Behind the tall battlements of slag and black and rising towers of teeth He prepares the Evil Armies. But the Elves and Humans of the Greater Lands, maintain the Siege. It is now 90 years since the Allied Forces rent the Shadow Weave outside of Kevmann's gates. And still, there is a Dead Magic Zone that encircles the Black Gates. Here, then is the vulnerable point of the Dark Lord. While the Rent remains, Kevmann will not dare an assault on the Allies. Even though he holds the Ring of the Elf-Bane. And where the Elves march outside his gates, the Grasses grow - right unto the feet of the Black Gates....
Galeros 07-09-04, 01:13 AM	Gellion muses on this whole seige. As he speaks his voice can be heard throughout the lands of the Humans. Fellow Humans, I know you are all tiring of this seige. I ask all who are willing and able to help, be it with supplies, or manning the front lines. For even I can not destroy The Dark Lord himself. That can only be achieved by the will and believe of Humans in themselves and each other. So, I again ask you for your help.
Tenzhi 07-09-04, 02:09 AM	Ring of the Elf-Bane? :rofl: Gives the user the power to complain like an old man and ceaselessly grouse about everything that is wrong with everything?
Silmarien Aldalome 07-12-04, 07:20 PM	Verily, Great Elf-Bane, for The Ring of the Elf-Bane is made from a Shard of the Peredhil Stone, that was corrupted by The Dark Lord's Hand with Shadow Weave Necromancy. When the Ring is On His hand, our Elven High Magic is greatly weakened, and much of our Power is spent on penetrating the Ring's protection or on protecting us from an existential kind of Sickness. For the Ring radiates a Fellness that is anathema to our very flesh. ........................................ ....................... But, as the Twins are Born, the two explosions of Silver Starfire radiate out into the world. Their silvery azure strikes Pnatemul, and unhindered, penetrates all the Dark Lord's defences. As the surges pass through the Dark Fortress, it is rocked to its foundations, as even the Dark Lord trembles on his terrible throne, and he lets out a cry of existential pain. For the Silver Starfire is a scourge on Kevmann's soul and the Evil God who possesses Kevmann exerts greater Will to retain a hold on Kevmann. The Faithful Humans who are trapped within the Fortress cheer silently. But the rest of the Legions of the Dark Lord - Undead, Orcs, and fell creatures of all kinds - they cower in regress as the Silver Starfire pulse sends shock waves through the Dark Citadel.
Galeros 07-15-04, 06:55 AM	Okay, I have always had in my mind a vague history for Gellion. I have just never bothered to flesh it out. So, should I make do with what I have and post it when I get the time. Or should I just leave Gellion a complete mystery? Also, I came up with a title for Gellion. the title is... "The Omniversal Gaurdian of Humanity" How does that sound?
Galeros 07-19-04, 10:36 PM	Okay I guess no one wants me to make a history for Gellion. that is okay.:)
Silmarien Aldalome 07-20-04, 07:07 PM	Actually - I'd love to see the history. I've only just gotten to this now. I'd love to see some of Gellion's background! It's one thing to be mysterious, another to be so mysterious that one can't make a picture. So - I'd love to see where Gellion came from and so on. stav
Galeros 07-20-04, 07:30 PM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Actually - I'd love to see the history. I've only just gotten to this now. I'd love to see some of Gellion's background! It's one thing to be mysterious, another to be so mysterious that one can't make a picture. So - I'd love to see where Gellion came from and so on. stav Cool, I may post it in parts.:) Gellion grew up in an alternate dimension, that is outside of the great wheel itself. this world gave the feeling of being very large, yet also very stifling, and small. both magic and advanced technology existed in this world. Although both were fairly rare. The magic being held by a few powerful Wizards, and the technology all existing in an ancient starship underground, that was fiercely guarded by starnge technilogical beings. This world was also a very dark world, for there was no sun to illuminate it. However, there was a dark star of sorts that illuminated the world with an eerie black light. The peoples of this world lived in constant fear of being attacked, either from the strange beinsg from beneath the ground where the starship is, or for the worlds own native creatures that constantly seemed to dwell just on the outer reaches of civilization. Gellion grew up in a fairly well to do family, they were not rich, but they were not poor either. Gellion, however always had a preference of being alone, it was nothing personal against his family, he just liked being alone. Gellion was alwyas considered odd in the fact that he "never thought logically" according to his parents, and he was also terrible absentminded. Often forgetting where he put thinhs, and just being generally forgetful. Although everyone in his family learned to tolerate this. Gellion's true love of Humanity began afte rhe had read a wonderful tale in a book about a group of Human heroes triumphing against the darkest evil. The book has been lost to time, but Gellion will always remember the tale clearly in his mind. Gellion's father was an able explorer, and even brought Gellion many things he found on his travels. Gellion liked most of what his father brought to him, however, what he especially liked were the strange devices that his father had brought from the ship underground. Gellion had always been fascinated by the physical sciences and technology. However, before he could pursue a career in them, something else happened that would change his life forever.... Part two coming soon.:)
Galeros 07-23-04, 10:53 PM	Once while in a library Gellion was looking for a book pertaining to biological apects. For life had always interested him. While searching the library Gellin found a book that was crammed in between many other books, and it looked like it had seen its fair share of years. Gellion, curious, took it out and began to read some of it. The books contents seemed so very strange to Gellion, yet also very alluring. It talked of a realm beyond everything in existance. A realm where logic and reason simply did not exist. Although this wa but a meager "mortal" description of the place known as the Far Realms. Gellion flipped forward more in the book and found what he saw was the language of magic. These spells dealt with the Far Realms themself. Gellion so fascinated was he by this book that he walked out of the libray with it, without even informing the librarian. Luckily the librarian was busy arranging books on a shelf, so he did not notice Gellion leave. Gellion finally looke dat the end of the book and finally found the authors name(a starnge place to put it.) Magical script appeared and told Gellion that there were many more of these volumes about the Far Realms, and that tey were hidden about the world in which Gellion lived. Gellion immediately tok up study of the spells in the book, and though took him quite a while(Partially due to him learning them on his own, also because the book also contanied the basic spells known by any Wizard.) He di dnot want to inform other of what he was looking at, so he never even told his parents. :)
Silmarien Aldalome 07-27-04, 09:08 AM	Hoy thar Gellion/Galeros. The Scattered Library idea is a sound basis for a character and quite thought-provoking. Vanished Tomes with rich leather bound spines, and ornate scripting. So magical that they are a source of Hope and Despair for People all at once. Perhaps even occupying Metaphysical Space and Bound by the Laws of MetaTemporality. For - Gellion being of the Far Realms is The Wildcard. And in this way, none can forsee what this will entail! You may also be pleased to know that I'm currently building a Human character! He's a psionicist (Telepath) with 18 Charisma. I dunno - as I age, my characters get more superficial! (Cha) I remember the days when my lowest score ended up on the Charisma. regards stav
Galeros 07-27-04, 09:13 AM	Originally posted by Silmarien Aldalome Hoy thar Gellion/Galeros. The Scattered Library idea is a sound basis for a character and quite thought-provoking. Vanished Tomes with rich leather bound spines, and ornate scripting. So magical that they are a source of Hope and Despair for People all at once. Perhaps even occupying Metaphysical Space and Bound by the Laws of MetaTemporality. For - Gellion being of the Far Realms is The Wildcard. And in this way, none can forsee what this will entail! You may also be pleased to know that I'm currently building a Human character! He's a psionicist (Telepath) with 18 Charisma. I dunno - as I age, my characters get more superficial! (Cha) I remember the days when my lowest score ended up on the Charisma. regards stav Cool Sil.:) Most Dms would be really happy to have a high Cha character in the party, mainly because a lot of people seem to use Cha as a dump stat.:eek:
Galeros 08-15-04, 09:02 PM	Sorry, I have bben busy these past few weeks. And will continue to be busy for a bit. But I should be more active from now on.
Gellion 08-30-04, 10:13 PM	Finally I am back in my true form. Now this place should hopefully have more activity.
Silmarien Aldalome 08-31-04, 03:14 AM	Hi there Gellion - Where's Tenzhi? Where are we at with the Godless Cleric? - Let's *do it*. regards stav
Tenzhi 08-31-04, 09:03 AM	Where's Tenzhi? Right behind you. Boo. You mean we didn't finish godless clerics? I must have forgotten after the long lull what with Gellion's absence (that impostor didn't fool me - not for a second ;) ).
Tenzhi 09-04-04, 07:14 AM	Up for discussion: Humanity's greatest strength AND weakness - the bacterial mentality. Mankind's urgent need to continuously expand and reach ever greater heights in everything it does. Man will continue to tread this path of expansion even when it becomes self-destructive - like a bacterial colony growing until it chokes on its own effluvium.
Gellion 09-04-04, 08:42 PM	Up for discussion: Humanity's greatest strength AND weakness - the bacterial mentality. Mankind's urgent need to continuously expand and reach ever greater heights in everything it does. Man will continue to tread this path of expansion even when it becomes self-destructive - like a bacterial colony growing until it chokes on its own effluvium. Sorry, the new posts did not show up on my queue, so It hought nobody had responded. Anyways, I believe this can be a good and bad thing as you suggested. I myself like expansion and the general propogation of the Human race. However like you said, Humans can grow too much popultaion wise and can cause some serious problems. Not to mention possible destroying other life. Which I am not for. Anyways, I will admit I am now also involved in a completely different fandom a lot as well. So, I may not post as much as back when I was still here. I do like the new layout though, so that will probably help.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-04-04, 11:14 PM	Right behind you. Boo. *fun-screams* *then pouts* A gift and a bane (elf-bane) is Humanity. *Somewhere between trans-galactic and abomination *Somewhere about endless compassion and mindless denial of suffering *Somewhere between miraculous creations and covetous greed *Somewhere between the wizened ancient oak and the banally superficial Hi there Gellion - good to see you. You mean we didn't finish godless clerics? I must have forgotten after the long lull what with Gellion's absence (that impostor didn't fool me - not for a second ;) ). Let me see - we're somewhere beyond Trans-Dimensional Starburst, I believe Hmmm, Godless clerics would radiate charisma, I would have thought. After all, they have to be able to Awe at very high levels in ways that bring them a touch closer to Divinity. All their powers are independent of deities, without being void of spirituality. We've had a rather good discussion at Forgotten Realms about the Methodology, Functionality and Cosmology of clerical magic. In that discussion, cannon materials were explored in order to understand the origins of clerical power. What form is this power, how is it implanted in the clerics mind by the deity and what are the conditions that block clerical powers. The Deity Grant/Cast distinction was heavily explored. A Godless cleric must somehow imbue the self with Spiritual Power... *light goes 'ding'* The term imbue or imbue with Divine energy must be part of the Godless Cleric's concepts. Silmarien sits Alcare and Rilya down with Gellion and Tenzhi as she gets up to explore Gellion's library of Lore Tomes. They are trying to trace some new Lore in their struggle against The Dark Citadel, for legends have said that there are humans who once walked Toril and who were masters of Divine Grace but who had no gods. She looks at Gellion and says "Mayhap we can rekindle this ancient Lore, for our survival might depend on it." Alcare watches Sil as Rilya giggles before the children return their focus on floating, magical starlight points. Sil has devised a magical item that attunes to the children's aura, so that mental thought can be used to make the silvery objects twinkle, now brigher, now lighter. Or rush to the ceiling before hurtling towards the Rilya only to stop right before her nose. Sil continues the labour for Lore and after many hours perusing ancient Tomes in the Human Libraries of the world, she says. "I've found something. This is an ancient Loretome." She squints as she studies the discoloured leaves as she hums quietly. "It was written some time after the departure of the Imaskari, but nigh to their empire's noontide." She studies your features, as you listen and adds "But, he reflects on something far older, it would seem..." Her attention returns to the pages of the Tome as she reads aloud. ...when the Ancient Ones came into their own, this older Lore was lost and only an echo of it was retained by the Imaskari. And that aspect that they could grasp, echoed with the Imaskari's aversion of the Seldarine Pantheon. But even this fraction of that Ancient Lore brought great power and peril to the world. But, so the legends say that all space is bound by natural Laws. Some are tangible or can be grasped by the hand, and some are intangible forces. But, in days now long since forgotten, the powers of the world were untamed, vast and unordered. And in all was the universal power of the Song of Life. Thence after the Confluence of Forces they came and ascended Beyond the Firmament of the World, where formlessness and endlessness intersect in spirals of infinity. And from here, they radiated their influence and so it was that between the earth and the endlessness, the Powers intercede and in the space between words they came to exist. And so it is that the Seldarine are our enemies. For they stood between the Varmeneaans and the Old Order. And they reordered the Laws of the World and our empire was destroyed. But, I have been told that the Endlessness is still accessible. And but that for the Interdict of the Powers, the ancient potency of our race could yet be recalled. But, thence and only yestereve, after I found more in the ruins of the Varmeneaan empire, I was visited by Muse, who Sang to me. She spoke of the Time Before the Imaskari, when Varmeneaa was at its noontide. Ahh, I see its vast citadels of white stone that graced the world and the Varmeneaans - humans - whose might commanded power unimaginable. They were Divinity without Sanction, when their Order of Power was incandescent with splenour, I saw their cities. Their towers and wide paved avenues. Where the Grace of Nature met with the Beauty of Stone. And where the ocean met their harbours and their tall ships. From 10 leagues could their sea-faring vessels be seen as beacons of brilliant light, reflecting the sun's rays and more. For their vessels were imbued with the radiant power of the Varmeneanns. And even now, as the images are clear in my mind, I write this message down here, and so shall deliver this Tome as the first of the Lore Tomes of the Varmeneaans. For the Muse has asked that this be so. Stav
Gellion 09-04-04, 11:25 PM	Hmmmm, the Varmeneaans seem like an interesting idea for introducing the GCs to the game world. Godless Clerics would more than likely have a high charsima. But maybe not always. There could be a powerful, yet quiet and shy one who believes deeply, but just lacks charisma. Heh, I am not berating your idea or anything Sil, but one thing I notice about most fantasy settings is that a lot of the times there always seems to be the assumption that those in the past knew more than those in the future. Not to say the idea is bad, ancient magical empires are a staple of most fantasy. And the idea still does appeal to me. I am sorry to be gone so long, but I was off in other worlds and times. The one who was here for a while was...a good friend I guess you could say
Silmarien Aldalome 09-04-04, 11:38 PM	Hmmmm, the Varmeneaans seem like an interesting idea for introducing the GCs to the game world. Godless Clerics would more than likely have a high charsima. But maybe not always. There could be a powerful, yet quiet and shy one who believes deeply, but just lacks charisma. Wisdom is typically ascribed to Clerics. But, believing deeply is not enough for manifesting purpose and creativity in life. One has to know how to translate that into action. And charisma is the power of wisdom in action. Godless clerics - are exceptional. They will need at least two ability score prerequisites, I believe. Heh, I am not berating your idea or anything Sil, but one thing I notice about most fantasy settings is that a lot of the times there always seems to be the assumption that those in the past knew more than those in the future. Not to say the idea is bad, ancient magical empires are a staple of most fantasy. And the idea still does appeal to me. The legacy of the ancient empire stirs humans deeply to passion. Atlantis, Aztecs, Incas, Egyptions. It's a staple - for a reason. Ancient mysteries stir us, and then we look to the heavens for the answers. Science fiction is steeped in the mysteries of forward looking Fantasy is steeped in the mysteries of antiquity I am sorry to be gone so long, but I was off in other worlds and times. The one who was here for a while wwas a...good friend I guess you could say Welcome back. Get cracking. And tell us a bit more, Mr Mystery Man ;) stav
Gellion 09-04-04, 11:51 PM	Wisdom is typically ascribed to Clerics. But, believing deeply is not enough for manifesting purpose and creativity in life. One has to know how to translate that into action. And charisma is the power of wisdom in action. Godless clerics - are exceptional. They will need at least two ability score prerequisites, I believe. I suppose so, but I am going to mull over it for a while. :) No to mention an image of a shy, meek guy in robes(I always picture Clerics in robes) wielding immense power just seems cool. :) The legacy of the ancient empire stirs humans deeply to passion. Atlantis, Aztecs, Incas, Egyptions. It's a staple - for a reason. Ancient mysteries stir us, and then we look to the heavens for the answers. Science fiction is steeped in the mysteries of forward looking Fantasy is steeped in the mysteries of antiquity I do agree with you sort of, I admit my personal views do sort of interfere. As I have a tendency of always looking towards the future. Welcome back. Get cracking. And tell us a bit more, Mr Mystery Man ;) Maybe someday......
Silmarien Aldalome 09-05-04, 12:06 AM	I do agree with you sort of, I admit my personal views do sort of interfere. As I have a tendency of always looking towards the future. Silmarien locks eyes with Gellion - she is smiling as she says to him.... "for the Future and the Past are intertwined. There cannot be the one without the other. That which is gone is a part of that which is, and that which will be. We have been contacted by the Past Gellion. And in this way, a doorway has been opened. That you may hear the Voices of those who came before you and thence look forwards into the Future. For - the Great MetaTemporal Spell has us each as part one part in the All. Thence you may bring the Future into the Now. Maybe someday...... *chuckles* Then bring the Future into the Now. Stop delaying. stav
Gellion 09-05-04, 12:18 AM	Silmarien locks eyes with Gellion - she is smiling as she says to him.... "for the Future and the Past are intertwined. There cannot be the one without the other. That which is gone is a part of that which is, and that which will be. We have been contacted by the Past Gellion. And in this way, a doorway has been opened. That you may hear the Voices of those who came before you and thence look forwards into the Future. For - the Great MetaTemporal Spell has us each as part one part in the All. Thence you may bring the Future into the Now. *chuckles* Then bring the Future into the Now. Stop delaying. stav OOC: But bringing the future to now would cause a huge paradox(Not the WizO) that would destroy the multiverse. :eek: Seriously though, I know what you mean, I was just saying something to tell my own real life views. Anywho, I shall never tell you now. :cool: Okay, so the Varmeneaans are an ancient society of Humans who were around before the Imaskar, and they were the ones who founded divine magic with out needing the help of the gods. I am not quite sure if we ever touched on this, but what about the morality of the Godless Clerics? My idea was that they did not hate the gods, but just choose to find their own way in life. They probably revere most life, and might be, for the lack of a better word, more secular than most other Clerics. Meaning that they are spiritual, but focus more on life here and now than on an afterlife. Those are just some of my ideas of course. :)
Silmarien Aldalome 09-05-04, 12:38 AM	Seriously though, I know what you mean, I was just saying something to tell my own real life views. Anywho, I shall never tell you now. :cool: Okay, so the Varmeneaans are an ancient society of Humans who were around before the Imaskar, and they were the ones who founded divine magic with out needing the help of the gods. I am not quite sure if we ever touched on this, but what about the morality of the Godless Clerics? My idea was that they did not hate the gods, but just choose to find their own way in life. They probably revere most life, and might be, for the lack of a better word, more wordly than most. Meaning that they are spiritual, but focus more on life here and now than on an afterlife. Those are just some of my ideas of course. :) That's better. This prestige class is now many months old, and it is time we got some activity on it. "The Loretome is not specific, Gellion. For, as is the wont of all cultures, there are no prescriptive rules on each member of an Order. She flicks through the pages of Tome, and reads again: "....for when the Power was Broken - a great wave of force was propelled into Unspace and this rippled throughout all time and space. The resonance was propelled into Eternity and into the Future.....and when the legions of Varmeneanns gathered, their numbers were vast and the chorus of their voices rang out on the battle field, as the first of the Seldarine was born.....and their power was sheared from them......" But, of their morality and outlook - I do like your idea of the robed wisened cleric. PC design is a very personal thing, I think Gell. One can ascribe particular powers to a class, and these occur in a PC context. I would have thought that Godless Clerics would have an overarching system of belief and organisation. What are your thoughts on that. If I'm going to be a voice for your PrC - you have to express your wishes. I'd encourage you to produce some product as well. :) stav
Gellion 09-05-04, 12:49 AM	That's better. This prestige class is now many months old, and it is time we got some activity on it. "The Loretome is not specific, Gellion. For, as is the wont of all cultures, there are no prescriptive rules on each member of an Order. She flicks through the pages of Tome, and reads again: "....for when the Power was Broken - a great wave of force was propelled into Unspace and this rippled throughout all time and space. The resonance was propelled into Eternity and into the Future.....and when the legions of Varmeneanns gathered, their numbers were vast and the chorus of their voices rang out on the battle field, as the first of the Seldarine was born.....and their power was sheared from them......" But, of their morality and outlook - I do like your idea of the robed wisened cleric. PC design is a very personal thing, I think Gell. One can ascribe particular powers to a class, and these occur in a PC context. I would have thought that Godless Clerics would have an overarching system of belief and organisation. What are your thoughts on that. If I'm going to be a voice for your PrC - you have to express your wishes. I'd encourage you to produce some product as well. :) stav These migth be the believs of one of them. Love all Humans, and love all members of the other races as well. Do not hate anyone and try peaceful solutions first. Do not try to kill your enemy if combat is to arise, subdue them and heal them. Do not force your believes on them, let them take their own path, and remember to love them even if they are evil. But do be kind to them, and show them that you care about them. Personally I never really saw them as an order, it would be more of an individual thing for each person. They would attain this path on their own. The above might be the morals of one particular Cleric. They do lnot liek to kill, but will. They know that they have many powers that could be used for destructive purposes, some soley for that, but would be hesitant to use them.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-05-04, 12:55 AM	Love all Humans, and love all members of the other races as well. Do not hate anyone and try peaceful solutions first. Do not try to kill your enemy if combat is to arise, subdue them and heal them. Do not force your believes on them, let them take their own path, and remember to love them even if they are evil. But do be kind to them, and show them that you care about them. Personally I never really saw them as an order, it would be more of an individual thing for each person. They would attain this path on their own. The above might be the morals of one particular Cleric. What about centralised power bases? Cultural organisation? How do they live? Rituals - let's give them some flavour. What's their holy symbol, what metal is it made of? Is the rare-earth holy symbol a part of their ability to manifest power? Colours of their robes? What does Transdimensional starburst get used for? What other powers do they have? Who is advantaged and disadvantaged in a cleric-godless cleric contest? What is the form of their magical spell use? Do they have spell-slots? What other kinds of powers do they have? stav
Tenzhi 09-05-04, 12:59 AM	Wisdom is typically ascribed to Clerics. I think this is part of the problem. Religious clerics would make more sense based on Charisma - they have to attract the attention of a god, communicate with it on a regular basis, and spread its teachings.
Gellion 09-05-04, 01:11 AM	What about centralised power bases? Cultural organisation? How do they live? Rituals - let's give them some flavour. What's their holy symbol, what metal is it made of? Is the rare-earth holy symbol a part of their ability to manifest power? Colours of their robes? What does Transdimensional starburst get used for? What other powers do they have? Who is advantaged and disadvantaged in a cleric-godless cleric contest? What is the form of their magical spell use? Do they have spell-slots? What other kinds of powers do they have? stav I jsut now thougth about thsi for a bit, and I will answer each question. On Holy symbols and robes and such. It would largely be an individual thing. There might be some of them that get together and form an order and thus wear robes of their choosing. There would be no real holy symbol, they would be able to operate with out one, but some might carry a sentimental object with them that could, in a way, be considered their symbol. The destructive abilities would be rarely used, and only in the most dire of emergenices. Such as some evil god trying to take over the multiverse or other such disasters. Other powers is what we seem to be stuck on, it is hard to develop them without creating something that already exists. It would mostly depend on who is higher level, for a powerful Cleric of a god could till beat a Godless Cleric who is of a lower level. Their magical spells could be considered divine magic for all intents and purposes. Yes, I suppose they do use spell slots, until we can think up something better at least. Again, we are still stuck on other powers.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-05-04, 01:11 AM	I think this is part of the problem. Religious clerics would make more sense based on Charisma - they have to attract the attention of a god, communicate with it on a regular basis, and spread its teachings. Interesting Tenzh. Yes - propelling and enacting change, or distributing clericy beliefs might well be served by charisma. The distribution of power in the system I'm working on recognises a schizm between godless clerics and normal clerics. The Seldarine Pantheon would be threatened by an order of Divinity that does not require followers and that does not need a god as a source of power. Thus, in the grant-cast distinction, it is the functionality in the 'grant' aspect of godless clerics that sets up a key tension in the distribution of power on Toril. Thus, godless clerics and their order would be the focal point for feelings of threat from the broader cleric community. This has implicaitons for their cultural trajectory, their power, their social order and their way of life. ....for the gods taught mortals that the gods were needed. And in this, they lied. For the clerics of the Seldarine feed the gods. The worshippers allow the deity to rule. And the godless clerics knew this. But, the lives that were lost on the day of the Battle. The misery and suffering that befell the ranks of the Varmenaoreans, whose banner was broken by Corellan's sword. And thence the great folk were banished and stripped of their power - doomed to become a shadow of their former glory. For the Imaskari endured the shame of their subordination, and vowed to never serve any god. stav
Gellion 09-05-04, 01:16 AM	Interesting Tenzh. Yes - propelling and enacting change, or distributing clericy beliefs might well be served by charisma. The distribution of power in the system I'm working on recognises a schizm between godless clerics and normal clerics. The Seldarine Pantheon would be threatened by an order of Divinity that does not require followers and that does not need a god as a source of power. Thus, in the grant-cast distinction, it is the functionality in the 'grant' aspect of godless clerics that sets up a key tension in the distribution of power on Toril. Thus, godless clerics and their order would be the focal point for feelings of threat from the broader cleric community. This has implicaitons for their cultural trajectory, their power, their social order and their way of life. ....for the gods taught mortals that the gods were needed. And in this, they lied. For the clerics of the Seldarine feed the gods. The worshippers allow the deity to rule. And the godless clerics knew this. But, the lives that were lost on the day of the Battle. The misery and suffering that befell the ranks of the Varmenaoreans, whose banner was broken by Corellan's sword. And thence the great folk were banished and stripped of their power - doomed to become a shadow of their former glory. For the Imaskari endured the shame of their subordination, and vowed to never serve any god. stav Now that is some good stuff right there. :) Perhaps not all of the Godless Clerics would hate all the gods. As shown above, one might not really care. After all why hold a grudge now? It happened a long time ago. One might say, "It was long ago, I am just going to worry about the here and now." But like I said there would be a general believe in the propogation of Humanity, but some might differ in the way they do it.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-05-04, 01:55 AM	Now that is some good stuff right there. :) Perhaps not all of the Godless Clerics would hate all the gods. As shown above, one might not really care. correct - which would create interesting political schizms within the ranks of godless clerics. After all why hold a grudge now? It happened a long time ago. One might say, "It was long ago, I am just going to worry about the here and now." Because - [color=red]...their culture was destroyed and they lost everything - even their sons and daughters - to a revolution spawned by the Seldarine, with Corellan at their helm. Who struck down the head of their order and forever put himself between spirituality and freedom..... But like I said there would be a general believe in the propogation of Humanity, but some might differ in the way they do it. Right - now we're getting somewhere. I'll be back with product. Gellion - get yourself out and about and bring your human followers back with you my friend ;)
Gellion 09-05-04, 02:03 AM	correct - which would create interesting political schizms within the ranks of godless clerics. Because - [color=red]...their culture was destroyed and they lost everything - even their sons and daughters - to a revolution spawned by the Seldarine, with Corellan at their helm. Who struck down the head of their order and forever put himself between spirituality and freedom..... Right - now we're getting somewhere. I'll be back with product. Gellion - get yourself out and about and bring your human followers back with you my friend ;) If I can ever find them again, it seems the people are now scattered due to the move. All Godless Clerics would be good or possibly neutral, and they might form groups, but there would be loners too. The Seldarine thing is interesting, I would comment on it now, but I need sleep due to the fact that I have been up way too long. Ah, heck, I wil comment now. My question is, why do the Seldarine feel threatened when not many Humans worship them anways, and only humans can be Godless Clerics. I am going to bed now, but I will try to see this thread again before I have to go somehwere tomorrow.
Tenzhi 09-05-04, 02:53 AM	Perhaps not all of the Godless Clerics would hate all the gods. As shown above, one might not really care. After all why hold a grudge now? They might not hold a grudge, but they would almost certainly live in fear of the gods turning a disapproving eye (and its associated divine resources and influence) towards this upstart 'cult' which doesn't need divine help to perform divine miracles. After all, it would be in the gods' collective self-interest (and even "good" divinities have a great deal of self-interest) to not lose followers to a belief system which doesn't need the gods at all (assuming one is in a campaign world where the gods need worshippers to power their divinity).
Gellion 09-05-04, 06:15 PM	They might not hold a grudge, but they would almost certainly live in fear of the gods turning a disapproving eye (and its associated divine resources and influence) towards this upstart 'cult' which doesn't need divine help to perform divine miracles. After all, it would be in the gods' collective self-interest (and even "good" divinities have a great deal of self-interest) to not lose followers to a belief system which doesn't need the gods at all (assuming one is in a campaign world where the gods need worshippers to power their divinity). I can easily see this, but they would try to do a peaceful solution first before combat. I do see where you are coming from though Tenzhi.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-07-04, 10:42 PM	I can easily see this, but they would try to do a peaceful solution first before combat. I do see where you are coming from though Tenzhi. Just popping in Gell+Tenz to say I'm still formulating. Gotta deadline today - but I've got ideas for new items we're building. Gellion - I also want to trial-play this new beast, in a cleric versus godless cleric confrontation. Will you assist me in a 'battle' thread? regards stav
Gellion 09-07-04, 10:45 PM	Just popping in Gell+Tenz to say I'm still formulating. Gotta deadline today - but I've got ideas for new items we're building. Gellion - I also want to trial-play this new beast, in a cleric versus godless cleric confrontation. Will you assist me in a 'battle' thread? regards stav I will do what I can to help in any way, within my limitations of course. For I do have school to deal with and my other interests as well. But just let me know when and I will respond as soon as I can.
Silmarien Aldalome 09-07-04, 10:50 PM	I will do what I can to help in any way, within my limitations of course. For I do have school to deal with and my other interests as well. But just let me know when and I will respond as soon as I can. It would be no greater burdon upon you than your current amount of social time that you spend on the boards. It would be more about just having fun with dice and stuff, rather than hard work. I'll be back Gell. stav
Gellion 09-07-04, 10:59 PM	It would be no greater burdon upon you than your current amount of social time that you spend on the boards. It would be more about just having fun with dice and stuff, rather than hard work. I'll be back Gell. stav Okay, cool. I am just letting you know that if no response appears for a while I might have been tied up in something, but generally I am here a good amount. :) I am retiring to bed now and will probably not be available until late afternoon tomorrow. I will see what you have posted by then Sil. :)
Tenzhi 09-08-04, 12:38 AM	I can easily see this, but they would try to do a peaceful solution first before combat. In my experience, all but the purest goody-good gods will give self-preservation top priority. Any violence avoided will likely be part of said self-preservation (keeping the sacrafice of followers to a minimum), but even the purest gods would be more than willing to hire a few faithless adventurers (or enlist the aid of -one- follower and his faithless companions) to take care of the problem in an expedient fashion. Meanwhile the evil gods will either throw minions at the problem until it goes away, or plot to use the spread of non-relgious faith among good peoples as a means to upset the balance between good and evil. I'm not saying that any of this is a bad thing - to the contrary, it is a situation rife with potential plots to tie players up in.
turalisj 09-09-04, 07:19 PM	humans- bland and too crunchy, unintelligent and weak. i will have to watch to see if you prove me wrong....
Gellion 09-18-04, 12:51 AM	Well, I just last game introduced a Godless Cleric NPC to my group. Well, she is not one quite yet, but she can still get her spells with out the help of a god. She helped the PCs out a bit to defeat a rather crazy Cleric of Corellon.
Tenzhi 09-18-04, 03:06 AM	Humans are only bland uncooked - when fried they taste like bacon. Still, they're no elf-meat.
turalisj 09-18-04, 01:33 PM	i know what you mean by fellow dragon. i could go for some nice poached drow
Gellion 10-02-04, 09:10 PM	Okay, here is what we have mechanic wise for the GC. Trans-Dimensional Starburst Evocation Spellcraft DC: 67 (adjust by choice of Factors & Mitigating Factors at Casting Time) Casting Time: 10 minutes Range: 300 ft. or touched creature of object of 2000lb or less Area: A bolt 5 ft. Wide to 300 ft. Long; or a 5-ft radius emanation; or a wall whose area is up to 200 ft. Square; or a sphere or hemisphere with a radius of up to 20 ft. Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Reflex Half Spell Resistance: Yes To Develop: 603,000 gp; 12 days; 24,120 XP; Seed: Energy, Transform, Transport (DC: 67). Factor: increase radius to 1000 ft. (+196 DC); increase range to 1,500 ft. (+8 DC); for every plane touched (+10 DC); increase damage (+2DC for each additional 1d6). Mitigating Factors: increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20 DC), burn 5,000XP (-50 DC); For extra caster contributing a 9th Level Spell slot (-17 DC); Backlash 1d6 points of damage (-1 DC for each 1d6) Godless Clerics are beings who consciously exist in multiple planes of existence in the one moment. In truth, all humans' essence straddles multiple planes, but the vast majority of people are unaware that this is the case. The Godless Cleric may use her or his "sense" of multiple planes to propel energy into multiple planes in one casting. When this spell is cast, the Godless Cleric creates an aura of blue energy, that initially surrounds his hands and illuminates a 1,000 ft area with its brightness. To onlookers, this energy is like a miniature sun and it burns so fiercely that it can be seen and heard from a mile away. It is as bright as daylight and emits a deep roaring sound that also causes the ground to tremble. With the final utterance of the spell, the Energy is propelled as a searing Bolt (that moves at the speed of light and detonates with an explosive "boom" upon impact) or converted into a wall, or sphere or hemisphere. For a DC of 67, the caster gets to propel the Energy into a second plane (as well as the PMP) simultaneously. For every +10 to the DC, the caster may add another Plane. Thus, for a DC of 77, the Caster could affect, for example, the PMP, the Demiplane of Shadow and the Negative Material Plane all at once. The extra-dimensional bolt thus is a searing force that straddles multiples planes of existence. Upon impact, the damage to creatures affected is a base 10d6 + 1d6 for every additional 2 added to the DC to cast the spell. Thus, a 30d6 burst, would have a base DC of 107, and backlash of, say 10 d6 damage, DC of 97. Multiple Godless Clerics may combine to cast the spell, to lower the DC of the spell and improve its power. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Class Abilities - Godless Cleric Transdimensional Starburst Immobilise Deity Subsume Deity Intersect Realities Modify The Weave For intersect realities we coud have the GC able to "pull" objects from other realities pr worlds. This could result in a GC having some curious items with them. For the modifying of weave, we could have them be able to modify some of the weave so that they could either block off a portion of it to certain areas. Or even comandeer a portion of it form themsleves. In which they could distribute the power among their fellow adventurers.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-03-04, 12:55 AM	Okay, here is what we have mechanic wise for the GC. Class Abilities - Godless Cleric Transdimensional Starburst Immobilise Deity Subsume Deity Intersect Realities Modify The Weave For intersect realities we coud have the GC able to "pull" objects from other realities pr worlds. This could result in a GC having some curious items with them. For the modifying of weave, we could have them be able to modify some of the weave so that they could either block off a portion of it to certain areas. Or even comandeer a portion of it form themsleves. In which they could distribute the power among their fellow adventurers. :cool: Great ideas. Modify its structural properties - so that Spell Casting methodology goes through a shift thereby, giving an advantage to the Godless Cleric at any one time. Not some lowly power for mortal casters. I think some of the psionic effects, like Fiery Discorporation are worth considering as well. Perhaps, Weave-Immersion could be another effect, where the Cleric discorporates and becomes a part of the Weave, but retaining conscious focus. Perhaps, there might be powers available in this state, to Clerics, such as the ability to influence other casters' spells, or more. stav
Gellion 10-03-04, 02:21 AM	:cool: Great ideas. Modify its structural properties - so that Spell Casting methodology goes through a shift thereby, giving an advantage to the Godless Cleric at any one time. Not some lowly power for mortal casters. I think some of the psionic effects, like Fiery Discorporation are worth considering as well. Perhaps, Weave-Immersion could be another effect, where the Cleric discorporates and becomes a part of the Weave, but retaining conscious focus. Perhaps, there might be powers available in this state, to Clerics, such as the ability to influence other casters' spells, or more. stav Well, if you could imagine the weave being like this. A bunch of intertwined lines of magic crisscrossing each other, at each point where they intersected there would be a node. Each of these nodes would be for an individual spellcaster. Which means there would be a lot of them. If we had a weave immersion ability then the GC would travel along these lines of magic in the weave until they got to the particular node they wanted. Where they could help or hinder the spellcaster who "owns" that node.
Tenzhi 10-03-04, 02:30 AM	A bunch of intertwined lines of magic crisscrossing each other Aka "Ley Lines"... ;)
Gellion 10-03-04, 02:36 AM	Aka "Ley Lines"... ;) Yep, I was going to say that, but decided not to. :) *Gives Tenzhi a :cookie:*
Silmarien Aldalome 10-03-04, 02:46 AM	Well, if you could imagine the weave being like this. A bunch of intertwined lines of magic crisscrossing each other, at each point where they intersected there would be a node. Each of these nodes would be for an individual spellcaster. Which means there would be a lot of them. If we had a weave immersion ability then the GC would travel along these lines of magic in the weave until they got to the particular node they wanted. Where they could help or hinder the spellcaster who "owns" that node. Hi there Tenzhi - Gellion, I don't often say this and mean it, but that idea is one of the best I've seen around. Or - by Immersion, the cleric could transmit their magic to a remote caster. Thereby, either aiding, or impeding another. Or - like the 2nd level wizard spell of first level, Mirror Image - *but* one could create those duplicates at multiple sites, by way of the Immersion ability.
Gellion 10-03-04, 02:50 AM	Hi there Tenzhi - Gellion, I don't often say this and mean it, but that idea is one of the best I've seen around. Or - by Immersion, the cleric could transmit their magic to a remote caster. Thereby, either aiding, or impeding another. Or - like the 2nd level wizard spell of first level, Mirror Image - *but* one could create those duplicates at multiple sites, by way of the Immersion ability. I suppose it would be more efficient. Now for the effects on said spellcaster. I figure the GC would be able to do things like either increase the effectiveness of their spells(Make them harder to resist) or decrease the effectiveness of their spells(Make them easier to resist.) Or even deny them the ability to cast any spells at all.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-03-04, 02:55 AM	I suppose it would be more efficient. Now for the effects on said spellcaster. I figure the GC would be able to do things like either increase the effectiveness of their spells(Make them harder to resist) or decrease the effectiveness of their spells(Make them easier to resist.) Or even deny them the ability to cast any spells at all. I don't see it as a case of 'one or the other' but both. A cluster of powers allied to the Immersion Ability. Another one - Immersion Fireball - which allows the transmission of Fireball to one/multiple locations at once. I'm also seeing a Gather Power Immersion ability - that lets you redirect other's magical power to your current location. Then, if you ally another power Transform Magic - perhaps a second feat, or level power, that lets you reshape the magic into a new spell power in your current location. Sort of like Simbul's something or other spell.
Gellion 10-03-04, 03:06 AM	I don't see it as a case of 'one or the other' but both. A cluster of powers allied to the Immersion Ability. Another one - Immersion Fireball - which allows the transmission of Fireball to one/multiple locations at once. I'm also seeing a Gather Power Immersion ability - that lets you redirect other's magical power to your current location. Then, if you ally another power Transform Magic - perhaps a second feat, or level power, that lets you reshape the magic into a new spell power in your current location. Sort of like Simbul's something or other spell. yes, but what purpose would sending a fireball to a node serve. Would it do some sort of mental damage to the owner of it? For the redirecting of power, I would allow a will save for them to keep their power. For the transform magic power, you could take magic you have taken from another node, and form it into another spell by making a spellcraft check.
Tenzhi 10-03-04, 03:13 AM	The whole thing lends itself too easily to imagining spells like "Sever Node" IMO...
Gellion 10-03-04, 03:14 AM	The whole thing lends itself too easily to imagining spells like "Sever Node" IMO... Well, Tenzhi, all I have to say is just look at the Avatar Dweomer Master....
Tenzhi 10-03-04, 03:18 AM	Sorry, I keep forgetting that you people are prone to creating the Deus ex Machina PrC on a faint whim. ;)
Gellion 10-03-04, 03:20 AM	Sorry, I keep forgetting that you people are prone to creating the Deus ex Machina PrC on a faint whim. ;) Yep, I honestly would not let anyone play that PrC in any of my games, but is it fun to read and think about. :)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-03-04, 03:28 AM	Sorry, I keep forgetting that you people are prone to creating the Deus ex Machina PrC on a faint whim. ;) It's only Deas ex Machina iff (i.e. if and only if) the power eludes containment by other normative methods. Necessity is the mother of invention. Beyond, that, and in terms of game-balance. It's really not that different from a teleport+fireball fusion spell. Ergo It's stoppable by a number of well-structured, high-level abjurations. A Foundation Power, once codified, should acquire the equivalent of Hit Dice, or ECL modifications. That, would then, bind and limit its usage. Stav
Gellion 10-03-04, 03:30 AM	It's only Deas ex Machina iff (i.e. if and only if) the power eludes containment by other normative methods. Necessity is the mother of invention. Beyond, that, and in terms of game-balance. It's really not that different from a teleport+fireball fusion spell. Ergo It's stoppable by a number of well-structured, high-level abjurations. A Foundation Power, once codified, should acquire the equivalent of Hit Dice, or ECL modifications. That, would then, bind and limit its usage. Stav Ummm, I did not quite get that last sentence. :confused: do you mean that we should put some limitations on the ability to send spells to individual spellcasters?
Tenzhi 10-03-04, 03:36 AM	"Normative" being that which would be considered normal within the course of most games. Bending stars and severing people from the (ugh...) Weave being far beyond what would be considered normal in most games from a player's perspective...
Silmarien Aldalome 10-03-04, 06:20 PM	Ummm, I did not quite get that last sentence. :confused: do you mean that we should put some limitations on the ability to send spells to individual spellcasters? It's a way of determining what sort of foe/adversary could survive something that travels down Weave Strands or who cooks them remotely, or who syphons power from other mages in the heat of battle.... *grins* @Tenzhi - :rofl: (and axis-shifting powers, or powers that alter a star's characteristics.......) @Discussion Topic what is Normal versus Normative for D&D where human power is concerned 'normative' unlike the word 'normal' recognises that normal is a relative (not absolute) term. The only thing that makes something normal in our universe (in terms of character traits, and human characteristics) is the fact that there is such a thing as the "average" amount of that quality. And then a standard deviation around that mean value. In some models of abnormality, we say that if something has -1.96<x<+1.96 standard deviations away from the average, then this is abnormal. Average height, weight, "normal" eye colour. Normal amounts of impulsivity, anxiety, happiness, anger, shame, perfectionism, emotionality, agreeableness, conscientiousness, adventure-seeking, sensation seeking. None of those things obey any absolute rules. That is, really, there is no such thing as 'absolutely normal' only 'relatively normal'. It could just as easily have been the case that humanity came out 1 foot shorter, or with 1 standard deviation more impulsivity. And for each trait, there are members with the exception to it. 'Normal' group standards are all shared reality/delusions really, in *some* ways. In others, they are very useful and help us get things done and stay well. Normative, on the other hand, recognises that the mean in a trait shifts over time. In D&D, we've had a substantial shift in what 'normative power' means over three generations of D&D. Consequently, normative deviations should be possible. Under the right conditions, and with the right checks and balances, however. stav
Gellion 10-15-04, 08:38 PM	It's a way of determining what sort of foe/adversary could survive something that travels down Weave Strands or who cooks them remotely, or who syphons power from other mages in the heat of battle.... *grins* @Tenzhi - :rofl: (and axis-shifting powers, or powers that alter a star's characteristics.......) @Discussion Topic what is Normal versus Normative for D&D where human power is concerned 'normative' unlike the word 'normal' recognises that normal is a relative (not absolute) term. The only thing that makes something normal in our universe (in terms of character traits, and human characteristics) is the fact that there is such a thing as the "average" amount of that quality. And then a standard deviation around that mean value. In some models of abnormality, we say that if something has -1.96<x<+1.96 standard deviations away from the average, then this is abnormal. Average height, weight, "normal" eye colour. Normal amounts of impulsivity, anxiety, happiness, anger, shame, perfectionism, emotionality, agreeableness, conscientiousness, adventure-seeking, sensation seeking. None of those things obey any absolute rules. That is, really, there is no such thing as 'absolutely normal' only 'relatively normal'. It could just as easily have been the case that humanity came out 1 foot shorter, or with 1 standard deviation more impulsivity. And for each trait, there are members with the exception to it. 'Normal' group standards are all shared reality/delusions really, in *some* ways. In others, they are very useful and help us get things done and stay well. Normative, on the other hand, recognises that the mean in a trait shifts over time. In D&D, we've had a substantial shift in what 'normative power' means over three generations of D&D. Consequently, normative deviations should be possible. Under the right conditions, and with the right checks and balances, however. stav I agree with yout hat average power in D&D has been increasing for quite a while. :)
Silmarien Aldalome 10-15-04, 08:46 PM	I agree with yout hat average power in D&D has been increasing for quite a while. :) Yes - we have work to do here. Have you been following the prep thread, especially the last few posts, where you are named? I will be back later to continue this work here. Probably later today or tomorrow. Regards stav
Gellion 10-15-04, 09:11 PM	Yes - we have work to do here. Have you been following the prep thread, especially the last few posts, where you are named? I will be back later to continue this work here. Probably later today or tomorrow. Regards stav Huh, I have been named for something? I am confused now, I do not see my name anywhere. :confused:
Gellion 10-19-04, 09:57 PM	Deep in their halls. The Human Wizards research new spells, and how to improve old ones. The new branch of Godless Clerics continues their long work on perfecting their art. Another branch is also seen in Human halls, but its true purpose is unknown...
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-04, 05:44 AM	Hi Gellion - I want to work on Modify the Weave next. Before I begin - Tenzhi - can you help us out - what scope should this power have - and do you have any comments about how to build it. Stav
Tenzhi 10-20-04, 06:29 AM	What scope should "Modify the Weave" have? In theory its scope would be unlimited save by the limits of the Weave itself (which pretty much means it's restricted to a single core world, but just about anything within that world would be possible). The question with Modify the Weave shouldn't be about what it can do, but rather what is involved in doing it as far as time and effort are concerned. Considering that the indirect alterations to the weave made by typical magicks require a certain amount of pomp and ritual to achieve, I imagine that directly manipulating the weave should be dangerous and/or difficult. The four main effects you'll get, however, are Translocation, Transmutation, Unravelling, and Creation (which should the most difficult of all - difficult enough that it's probably easier to alter existing patterns rather than create brand new ones).
Silmarien Aldalome 10-20-04, 06:33 AM	What scope should "Modify the Weave" have? In theory its scope would be unlimited save by the limits of the Weave itself (which pretty much means it's restricted to a single core world, but just about anything within that world would be possible). The question with Modify the Weave shouldn't be about what it can do, but rather what is involved in doing it as far as time and effort are concerned. Considering that the indirect alterations to the weave made by typical magicks require a certain amount of pomp and ritual to achieve, I imagine that directly manipulating the weave should be dangerous and/or difficult. The four main effects you'll get, however, are Translocation, Transmutation, Unravelling, and Creation (which should the most difficult of all - difficult enough that it's probably easier to alter existing patterns rather than create brand new ones). Gellion Your Worship ;) + :bow: - you are needed to comment, before I can continue.... Gotta get my dinner now...... stav
Gellion 10-20-04, 08:04 PM	What scope should "Modify the Weave" have? In theory its scope would be unlimited save by the limits of the Weave itself (which pretty much means it's restricted to a single core world, but just about anything within that world would be possible). The question with Modify the Weave shouldn't be about what it can do, but rather what is involved in doing it as far as time and effort are concerned. Considering that the indirect alterations to the weave made by typical magicks require a certain amount of pomp and ritual to achieve, I imagine that directly manipulating the weave should be dangerous and/or difficult. The four main effects you'll get, however, are Translocation, Transmutation, Unravelling, and Creation (which should the most difficult of all - difficult enough that it's probably easier to alter existing patterns rather than create brand new ones). As to how you do it. Basically the GC would sneak under the deity who normally controls the weave, meaning that they would be able to mask themselves from detection by deities. They would then uitilize the nodes as points from which to begin manipulating it. If you can picture the node as a spehere that the GC could stand in and be able to actually reach outside of and grab hold of strands of the weave itself and bend it to their will.
Silmarien Aldalome 10-23-04, 12:30 AM	As to how you do it. Basically the GC would sneak under the deity who normally controls the weave, meaning that they would be able to mask themselves from detection by deities. They would then uitilize the nodes as points from which to begin manipulating it. If you can picture the node as a spehere that the GC could stand in and be able to actually reach outside of and grab hold of strands of the weave itself and bend it to their will. Sounds cool. Now, Karsus tried to take over the entire weave, and EHM is more circumscribed in its effects, by comparison. I think the spell's methodology needs to: a. define a "zone of effect" - or isolate a portion of the weave and in this portion, b. the weave must be immune to external influence Because, re-shaping the weave, is like pulling on a hair on one's head. It would be felt. Also - we need to decide what kinds of effects modify weave produces. What can you do to the metaphysics of magical effects, for example? How is magic modified? Etc.... stav
grimclaw 11-27-04, 04:13 AM	You know the only problem with humans is the short attention spans we all seem to have.The Grimclaw really shouldnt have to look hard to find this foundation.I mean after all we were the movers and shakers that began the events that led to the first great foundation war(those were the days).Now it seems all my fellow humans have wandered of and forgotten where thier home is.
Gellion 11-27-04, 12:20 PM	You know the only problem with humans is the short attention spans we all seem to have.The Grimclaw really shouldnt have to look hard to find this foundation.I mean after all we were the movers and shakers that began the events that led to the first great foundation war(those were the days).Now it seems all my fellow humans have wandered of and forgotten where thier home is. Heya Grimmy, yeah the Human Foundation sort of sunk to the bottom when I left for a bit. Hehe, sorry about that. :)
grimclaw 12-04-04, 02:00 PM	In the center of the City of the Shattered Star,in the highest chamber of the High Lords tower the Grimclaw stood within a circle of glowing runes of power as he stove against the gods wrought wards that confined him.The gods would succeed in keeping a majority of his power contained he knew.His mind however would find a way to roam free. Suddenly with a great sound like thunder and a flash of light the runes diappeared and a mirror image of the grimclaw stood before him.I t was less than he,a mere fraction of his true power resided within it but it was enough. Moving to an ornate chair he sat and closed his eyes,a moment later the once motionlees double opened it's eyes.With a laugh like ice Grimclaw,s avatar strode thru one of the many portals that lined the walls.He had been confined a long time but soon he would find himself in the great wars once again. Sometime friend,sometimes foe but always a power to be reckoned with even in this reduced state. Within the chamber the moon godess appeared and looked long at her champion,"Go forth my friend and worry not none may enter the towerbut woe to those that find a way and awaken the wrath of your true self."With a smile she faded away leaving the room as quiet as a crypt.
Gellion 12-04-04, 02:22 PM	In the center of the City of the Shattered Star,in the highest chamber of the High Lords tower the Grimclaw stood within a circle of glowing runes of power as he stove against the gods wrought wards that confined him.The gods would succeed in keeping a majority of his power contained he knew.His mind however would find a way to roam free. Suddenly with a great sound like thunder and a flash of light the runes diappeared and a mirror image of the grimclaw stood before him.I t was less than he,a mere fraction of his true power resided within it but it was enough. Moving to an ornate chair he sat and closed his eyes,a moment later the once motionlees double opened it's eyes.With a laugh like ice Grimclaw,s avatar strode thru one of the many portals that lined the walls.He had been confined a long time but soon he would find himself in the great wars once again. Sometime friend,sometimes foe but always a power to be reckoned with even in this reduced state. Within the chamber the moon godess appeared and looked long at her champion,"Go forth my friend and worry not none may enter the towerbut woe to those that find a way and awaken the wrath of your true self."With a smile she faded away leaving the room as quiet as a crypt. Gellion appears to this avatar of Grimclaw and says. "Ahhhh, it is good to see such an old friend return. I admit, this place has seen little in the ways of activity lately. With the conflicts now going on between all the different guilds, I felt it was best to let us sink into obscurity for a little while. For I, not the rest of the Humans here, did not want to be involved in the fighting."
grimclaw 12-04-04, 02:30 PM	Ah but Gellion old friend it is not for humans to sink to obscurity but to ride the winds of chaos and chance to the pinnacle of creation.(besides thats were all the fun is)(point#2 i'm sorted of fond of this foundation and cant stand to let it go) :D
Gellion 12-04-04, 02:37 PM	Ah but Gellion old friend it is not for humans to sink to obscurity but to ride the winds of chaos and chance to the pinnacle of creation.(besides thats were all the fun is)(point#2 i'm sorted of fond of this foundation and cant stand to let it go) :D "Well, regardless, it is back among the rest of them now. I suppose we should get to work once again."
grimclaw 12-04-04, 03:05 PM	already on it
Gellion 07-25-05, 03:57 AM	:bump: