Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Super Draco Whitewind 11-22-03, 02:44 AM	well, since the old boards have come and gone, paladins have always been a hot topic. the class is a great class in my opinion, and my personal favorite overall. (as much as wizards and rogues are all that, i'm loyal to them due to my first character being a paladin). anyway, this thread is to discuss all things paladinny(=D), from variants, to paladin PrCs, to new spells, and high magic and low magic variants even. anything does as long as it is about the shining beacon of good that a paladin is. I do have a bit of material that i soon will be posting. it should help start things off. ~Draco
Tenzhi 11-22-03, 03:22 AM	As a DM I like having a Paladin in the party... it gives me a definite character to "mess with." :behold:
ManTimeForgot 11-22-03, 06:10 AM	I never understood why people continually state that they love to mess with the paladin. Presenting the paladin with an insurmountable moral quandry is not as easy as it sounds, no matter what a person's given morality system is. It gets worse for the DM in D&D when you try and actually use an absolute standard for morality. As near as I can tell as long as the player understands what it means to be a paladin, then there is almost nothing (yes its almost) a DM can do which will shake the paladin's morals. The only real issue is when the code and morality contradict, and I guess if introducing a philosophical aspect to your game is your cup of tea, then by all means "mess with the paladin," but were I in the position of DM I would hardly find it fun to challenge a player by presenting a philosophical challenge. How many people out there present similar challenges to monks, clerics, or druids? Of course were it my world, I just break up the paladin class into hospitalers (merciful way, guided by conscience, tenets of good behavior and compassion) and crusaders (just way, guided by honor, duty, and code). Both orders are bound not to interfere in the works of the other, though it is not often that they should disagree because the areas in which they operate are decidedly different. Helping people is what the hospitalers do best, and Crusaders excel at slaying demons and undead. This eliminates the code versus morality issue as one side or another is automatically given precedence for the given order of paladins. Thank You all and have a nice day. Signed, The Man Time Forgot
Korimyr the Rat 11-22-03, 07:27 AM	I mess with Paladins all the time because the class exists to be messed with. It's not a balance question-- as the Paladin is not, in my opinion, more powerful than other classes. However, the reason the Paladins have such a strict code is to force players to make difficult choices. It is not unfair to put them in this position-- as long as there is, actually, a "right thing" to do , and that it isn't something totally obscure that most players would entirely overlook. My favorite is to take those no-win situations that some GMs are fond of and throw them at the player of a Paladin, and watch him squirm as he tries to iron out the moral consequences of his choices-- and, as long as he proceeds with the intent of acheiving the most good, I don't penalize him. I do, however, keep his choice in mind for the next time I hit him with a whammy.
Tenzhi 11-22-03, 08:06 AM	Originally posted by ManTimeForgot I never understood why people continually state that they love to mess with the paladin. It's not so much a matter of moral quandries as it is a matter of it being fun to turn the Paladin into a "why-does-it-always-happen-to-me?" character. How many people out there present similar challenges to monks, clerics, or druids? No one's ever played a Druid IMC... but I do like to have fun with Clerics and Monks. Paladins, Clerics, and Monks seem to automatically come with a bunch of tie-in-able baggage.
vejono 11-22-03, 09:12 AM	I love the Paladin class, my favourite of all.
Getarnal_the_Drow 11-22-03, 09:18 AM	When I play paladins they always end up dieing while perfoming some heroic and stupid act while yelling either "get out now" or "Die unholy abomination".
aravilar_holistacia 11-23-03, 12:25 AM	Just a heads-up: Be aware that there is a bunch of Code of Conduct controversy right now, and that foundations have been discussed exclusively. If the thread title is to be kept, I suggest you take a look at WizO_Catoblepas' CoC post, located at any of the threads containing a foundation, or check my sig for the rules-council board. Aravilar Holistacia Harper Foundation Founder Council of Archmages, High Archmage of Elven High Magic
Super Draco Whitewind 11-23-03, 12:39 AM	I've seen them all, and don't worry, this will completely obey all rules. i'm well aware of them, and hopefully this thread will include everything that needs to be discussed. i will allow spells, and PrCs on this thread, simply becuase i don't want to have to keep bumping threads from getting pruned eventually, though i will keep a record of imporant things on my PC. just hope this completely complies, and if any WizOs find something wrong with this, please inform me as soon as possible so I can fix it. i don't want a closed topic. ~Draco
Sir Ferdinand 11-23-03, 03:17 PM	I'd suggest you to check our Board Order of Paladins, which is the Save the Core Paladin Foundation on these "new" boards. Board Order of Paladins (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45231&perpage=30&pagenumber=1)
Super Draco Whitewind 11-23-03, 09:57 PM	double post
Super Draco Whitewind 11-23-03, 09:57 PM	I do not agree with much of what that foundation agrees on, and thus refuse to join on the grounds that i cannot create and add what I wish. ~Draco
Super Draco Whitewind 11-23-03, 09:57 PM	triple post >_<';;
Silmarien Aldalome 04-15-04, 01:05 AM	G'day everyone and welcome to the New World. We've got a Great Council to discuss your ideas for the game environment - and we'll look forwards to your ideas. You can also post IC here too - and think of the Forum as much in terms of "between thread" interactions" - e.g. related organisations, guilds, concepts and game tools. Cheers stav
Draco_Whitewind 04-15-04, 01:36 AM	my thread hath come back alive! I shall post some stuff I did for ellowen, and my views on the paladin code soon now. ~Draco
Finwe 04-15-04, 01:47 AM	Well, may Tyr/Heironeous/<your deity HERE> be with you.
Silmarien Aldalome 04-15-04, 09:14 PM	Originally posted by Draco Whitewind my thread hath come back alive! I shall post some stuff I did for ellowen, and my views on the paladin code soon now. ~Draco I used to play a paladin. Our DM was so fierce that he didn't last long. But I remember him quite fondly (the paladin - that DM is still a friend too). The Moral foundations for the PC are particularly interesting. I'd like to bounce around three ideas about morality - to find out your thoughts as to how they relate to Paladins. Moral Relativism ="ain't no such thing as a "trans-cultural" or "trans-racial" set of "moral codes". "To Each His Own" sorta thing. And that to try to impose external morality on another agent is immoral. Who sees problems with this and where? I'd be curious to explore thie "pros and cons" of this one. Moral Absolutism ="there is such a thing as "absolute" Moraltiy - that can be applied and that is applicable trans-culturally and trans-racially. E.g. "Some Things are Wrong Everwhere" and that we have the right to impose this morality on all others. Ditto questions. Moral Universalism ="People are both the same and different trans-culturally and trans-racially". Some things are universally "true" "moral" but - the way you interpret morality and apply that "universal truth" needs to be done in culturally/racially sensitive ways. E.g. all mothers want to protect their children from harm (universal truth) - but the way they do that differs depending on who they are. ditto questions. stav
Mrdeathclaw 01-24-05, 12:19 PM	Thats why im always getting messed with Becuese im a palidin Im like the black guy in a group of whites im an outcast Thats it what has good ever done for me Nothing Im going to be a blackgaurd Maby
Daleah The Faithful 01-24-05, 03:02 PM	Thats why im always getting messed with Becuese im a palidin Im like the black guy in a group of whites im an outcast Thats it what has good ever done for me Nothing Im going to be a blackgaurd Maby Awww :( But where would the adventurers be without the courageous black sheep of the group?! It is a difficult challenge to be different, to deal with the conflicting issues between Law and Good. Why, the paladin is the most challenging role to play of all!!! "Few have the purity and devotion to walk the paladin's path." "Even a mundane mission is, in the heart of a paladin, a personal test, an oportunity to demonstrate bravery, to develope martial skills, to learn tactics, and to find ways to do good." Example: "When circumstances are not so ideal , she finds herself torn between conflicting demands: her superior in her knightly order commands her to kill a brutral murder who has escaped punnishment in court on a legal technicality for example. Her personal code requires that she punnish those who harm innocents, and this killer certainly falls in that catagory. However, her personal code also instructs her to follow legetiment authority, which includes both her knightly superior and local law that has let the killer go free. The demands of her good alignment suggest she she punnish the wrong doer, but the demands of her lawful alignment insist that she obey the judgement of the court. It is entirely possible that either her superior or the magistrate in the case is corrupt or even possessed. "Whom does she obey? How does she sort out the conflicting demands of her loyalties?" It is like being ahead of your time, " Heroic characters often end up at odds with their culture and society." "No one ever chooses to be a paladin. Becoming a paladin is answering a call, accepting one's destiny." Perhaps you have only failed to recognize your own potential. I hope you wont give up so easily on your paladin calling. ;)
Dyne 01-24-05, 10:08 PM	The Paladin is one of the most interesting classes for several reasons, some of which many people unfortunately do not realize. In D&D, there are 9 alignments of all characters. Sadly, too many people seem to misinterpret this to mean that there are 9 different forms of personal values and morals a character can have. But this is not true. Every person has different values, so this should be true in the game. By placing that Lawful Good restriction on the Paladin class, the characters are not all forced to become mindless servants of what they call Good and Justice, they are forced to DEFINE what they call Good and Justice. What is Good? Is it spending your whole life fighting Evil to prevent them from harming innocent creatures? Is it standing as a shield between innocent people and what may harm them? Is it picking people up when they fall and doing the best you can to help them? What is innocent? Is it those who are not guilty to any crime, as outlined in the law of the land? Is it merely any person who may not be without fault, but they have done nothing to deserve what is being braught upon them? How do you fight Evil? Do you draw your sword and slay any creature who would harm an "innocent" person? Is it doing everything within your power to encourage people to be upright and good, and doing things to discourage them to do what is wrong? What is Justice? Is it upholding the law to every letter? Is it trying to prevent injustice, and making certain that retribution only comes to those who deserve it? Is it being Honorable in all that you do? Quit thinking in the simple 9 alignments and starting thinking of what the character's morals actually are. Start thinking about what he considers to be most important, when his morals and his code of conduct, as outlined by his superiors, seem to conflict. Give your character a conscience, and he will be unique and beyond the average Lawful Good Paladin. Afterall, the alignments were not meant to be one-sided. They have multiple dimensions, and it's up to you to discover which applies to the concept of your character.
Tenzhi 01-25-05, 01:36 AM	In D&D, there are 9 alignments of all characters. Sadly, too many people seem to misinterpret this to mean that there are 9 different forms of personal values and morals a character can have. But this is not true. Every person has different values, so this should be true in the game. By placing that Lawful Good restriction on the Paladin class, the characters are not all forced to become mindless servants of what they call Good and Justice, they are forced to DEFINE what they call Good and Justice. It's a good theory, but in the end the DM's views of alignment define what it is and He controls whether or not your character's alignment changes due to your actions. So when you're a Paladin you have to be most careful about defining your character's values, lest breaking from stereotypical values ends your character up as an ex-Paladin.
thasis 01-25-05, 09:49 AM	If your intressted in good acts and deeds ect check out my Guild of Pure Good. I have a guild of one of the each core alignements. They're there for support of the other foundations.