Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jagggar 02-27-06, 10:20 AM	Okay, that's it. Much less lycan in meta now. The WereVamp Society focuses on the lore and mechanics of Werecreatures, Vampires, and Zombies just because zombie-shoot-'em-ups are so much fun. Things derived from these creatures are also game for topics here such as Eberron's shifters. It looks like we've already got a pack in the works for Next Round in the IFWG.
jagggar 02-27-06, 10:21 AM	Creation Stories Werewolves (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8574016&postcount=11) by Wilds Werecreatures (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8575199&postcount=19) by Eglentyne Templates -Were Template (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8585503&postcount=49) by jagggar Random Resources WereCreatures (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7758853#post7758853)
jagggar 02-27-06, 10:22 AM	Templates +0 LA Vampire from d20 Future Mutations (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8580029&postcount=21) by jagggar
jagggar 02-27-06, 10:24 AM	Reserve P 3
jagggar 02-27-06, 10:26 AM	Combinations Lycanthyr (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5667903) By Zombomaniac (as Cazic) A PrC which creates a lycan/vampire hybrid. May go to the hunting of the above kinds, or possibly used for IFWG stats or something. Feel free to post away now.
Wilds 02-27-06, 12:40 PM	Probable char: Natural Werewolf + 1 class level? (i think) ok so onto business? lol where do lycanthropes come from? same as to vamps and zombies lets be original and try not to use RL mythology and find something more appropriate to this setting im gana work on lycans during spanish
thasis 02-27-06, 01:32 PM	Vampires come from demons infusing into the bodies of corpses. These corpses then rose with demonic power and became the creatures of the night we know now. I always liked that theory :)
jagggar 02-27-06, 01:40 PM	I think RL folklore and mythology is usually a good place to start when it exists. That way you can look at the stats versus the folklore you're using and decide why it's different (as a world in which magic exists would probably change some stuff) or tweak it (if you want a more traditional version of the monster). Knowing what the folklore is can help you create a different picture of the monster by changing it to something different. Sure, we all know you can become a werewolf from being bitten by one. But I wouldn't say I normally think of weres as being either born that way or infected (and unable to pass on the disease to others). D&D leaves out other ways to become a werewolf, such as drinking rainwater from a wolf's pawprint or from certian streams. Then you've got your forbidden rituals and deals with demonic powers. I know less about other weres. I'm small minded, and for me traditional vampires are inexplicitly tied up with Christianity (long story, one to get into later). Otherwise you've got your whole different mythoses from our modern vampire story sources. Zombies are zombies. It's kinda strange to look at the D&D zombies and then look at the wonderful rage-zombies from 28 Days Later and realize they're all zombies. Clearly it seems, they're all mindless, but that's about it. Hmm, but back to why I think it's good to keep RL folklore in mind. Vampires are repelled by garlic, right? Well, research tells us that they actually wore garlic, not to ward off Vampires, but to keep the stench of the dead from overpowering them. Perhaps let your PCs buy garlic thinking that will help them fight the vampire while the vampire is uneffected by it. (Or maybe has a stench ability which is negated by the garlic).
jagggar 02-27-06, 01:52 PM	Probable char: Natural Werewolf + 1 class level? (i think) Actually, you'd get 2 class levels because wolves have 2 HD. 7ECL - 2HD - 3LA = 2 class levels. lets be original and try not to use RL mythology and find something more appropriate to this setting Well don't think we're just gunna make one set mythology for everything. A rose is a rose is a rose, but Blade is not Marcus is not Dracula. Hmmm. . . Though I could see infrequent contests where a world is described and you have to fit in weres, vamps, and zombies.
Demonfey 02-27-06, 02:26 PM	I think werecreatures began with druids infused with more of nature's essence.
Wilds 02-27-06, 03:09 PM	O well heres some random thing i wrote in spanish An old man sits before you. "Werewolves you ask? Well let me tell you a tale I heard long ago. There was once a village that venerated a vengful sun god. This god was a jealous one. Instead of demanding sacrifice and daily ritual. It demanded that the villagers demage all other gods. Other god's clerics were not allowed in the village. Any one who worshipped another god was treated as a second class member of the tribe while they were there. They had to follow harsher laws and pay more for everything. But the god demanded more than that of one god. The sun god had long felt trfled with by the moon god. The sun god held that on the moon god's days of worship, the new and full moons. That It's worshippers ritually burned a wolf alive, wolves symbolizing the moon god. So it was the wolves learned to avoid the area around the village. Their population gradually shrank finally to the point were there was but one pack left in the area. On the next new moon the village had a grand festival. They arranged the pack in a giant sun pattern in the fire pit. They were walled in with logs and other burnable materials. As the new moon reached its zenith, the villagers lit the fire. As fire consumed the pack they a howled a howl of pain. A call to their supreme alpha. The moon god heard its children's plee and rushed to see what was wrong. It arrived just as the last member of the pack died, still burning as its life left it. The moon god was deeply angered by this and gathered all the souls of the wolves that had been burned. It sent the souls out into the village. The souls fused with children of the village. Making them the first werewolves. Beleiving that their god was pleased with them the village retired for the night. Their lives went along normally for the rest of the moon's phases. Then on the full moon, the villagers had a festival in honor of their god. They danced and worshipped and hurled curses at the full moon. As the adults danced the children gathered in a small knot. The first of them to change was curled on the ground, the first change never being a pleasent one. As it finally stood back up the other children felt a tingling and immediatly started their change. The adults never know what happened. They were dancing and cursing the moon one moment. The next half of them were dead on the ground. The others were pinned to the ground by strange creatures. The adults didnt know what was going on. They called out to their children. But none of the answered the call. Instead the changed children bite into their parents, sharing the pain they felt on their first change. When all of the adults were dead the children raised their heads and howled to the moon. The moon god looked down on its newest children and smiled. Knowing that none would doubt the power of the moon again. The old man comes out of his reverence when telling the story. "How do you know all of that?" A young girl asked. A look of surprise comes across the old man's face. "Because when you are the last to change and awake to see all you knew was killed. It never leaves you." With that the old man stands and leaves the room. Some of the adults realize what just happened and ran outside to catch the old man. All they saw was a wolf running off into the woods.
jagggar 02-27-06, 03:21 PM	*shudders* I could almost see that being a story a pack of werewolves tell their children to make them fear/hate sunworshipers as well. Poor puppies though. . .
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-27-06, 03:31 PM	What level/and such are allowed here? I might make a pack...
Wilds 02-27-06, 03:44 PM	I'm thinking a Natural Werewolf 5 / Hexblade 2. Strange combo and I think it would be interesting to play. @jaggger makes for a nice theme dont you think? that woudl work well... hmmm @priest a pack? you can only have one character a group I am guessing Natural Werewolfs are ECL 5 Afflicted Werewolfs are ECL 4
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-27-06, 03:59 PM	@ Wilds: I know, i merely meant the leader of the pack w./ leadership feat
Demonfey 02-27-06, 04:44 PM	A natural werewolf is ECL 6, Wilds.
jagggar 02-27-06, 05:07 PM	I get ECL 5. What's your math to get ECL 6?
Demonfey 02-27-06, 05:51 PM	Not checking the books and thinking of the wrong animal math, Jagggar. In this case, it was probably a weretiger's ECL that I was thinking of.
Eglentyne 02-27-06, 05:51 PM	This is from one of the worlds , it's about were panthers, and weretigers. One of the elder elf's is sitting arond the small elven tree village central fire pit, the children of the tree village are their listening to the stories from the elders. A young female elf child, says, " tell us the story of how the elf's were transformed into the forrest guardain's again." An middle age elf dressed in light green robs, uncrosses his legs and stands up with the help of his staff. "Exlenct choice Trin'casien, we can't forget the history of the village. For with out the forrest guardains we would fall as the other elf tribes have.", he looks into the fire for a moment, then at the children. "Long ago when we frist moved to these woods, that we live in now. The forrest was very harsh and the creatures were very destructive to the elf's, the elf's were fallen as fast as they were being born. The forrest god saw this and accourding to myth, made an agrment with the gods of the animals to protect us from are many enemys. This worked for a time, the anamial companions gave thier lives to save the elves. The elf's saw this and became distrought at loosing thier animal friends. The elfs of old prayed to their god of the forrest, for an answer to this. It is rumered among the elf's tales that the gods had an talk amonst them selves. the animal gods decided that the elf's were not treating thier animal friends right. so it is rumered the animal gods talked to the moon god, when the aniamls that gave thier lives to protect an elf, as punisment the animal spirt would enter the elf. It is told of strange happenings as elf's begain to change into panthers, tigers, wolfs, all the who elf's became changlings became outcast from the village; by the village leader. The village leader saw the changing as a curse untill the village leader lost his panther on a patrol and on a full moon changed one night into a panther that night and every full moon serval times. One time after changing back into a elf, he found him self naked in the woods again. The village leader went back to the village and sent some of the village elf's to find all the changelings and bid them to return to the village. It took a while for all of the elf's to trust the leader, years passed before all the changlings came back. Such has been our history young one's, we still rever the forrest god, and others rever the the moon god and other the animal gods. This is our heritage children, lest we forget. The gods, blessed us and cursed us for our past misdeads, I believe it's a blessing from the god's. It's close to patrol time and I know that for some of the older ones this will be your frist patrol, you need to prepare your self's." The elf looks at the younger children, then touches a young elf gril on the head. His eyes seem to glow a brighter green than normal, when the fire light hits them. He then climbs up a nearby tree untill he disappears, some of the older children in the group goto their homes. As the younger elfs watch by the fire light dancing among the trees, tigers, panthers come down from the trees; while wolfs come into the fire light from the forrest. The younger children watch as they form small groups and go their seperate ways, with a some elf's with the groups; the children begain to pointing and laughing at the different elf's and creatures. The children begian to play with each other by pretend to be like their parents by crawling on thier hands and knees, untill their mothers come and get them. dusting off the dirt they children wonder, if any of what the elf said was true. Or how come so many of their clan can change into creatures. with their mothers fussing over getting the dirt off their faces and hands.
Zombomaniac 02-27-06, 08:17 PM	This is something I made durring my days as Cazic. Lycanthyr (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5667903) It is a PrC that basicly creates a Lycan/Vampire Hybrid. It also has a creation story.
jagggar 02-28-06, 10:11 AM	Anyone want to play a vampire with no LA? I made this using the Mutations from d20 Future and d20 Apocalypse. Attack A vampire retains all the attacks of the base creature and also gains a bite attack if it didn’t already have one. If the base creature can use weapons, the vampire retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons. A vampire fighting without weapons uses either its bite attack or its primary natural weapon (if it has any). A vampire armed with a weapon uses its bite or a weapon, as it desires. Full Attack A vampire fighting without weapons uses either its bite attack (see above) or its natural weapons (if it has any). If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack along with a bite or other natural weapon as a natural secondary attack. Damage Vampires have bite attacks. If the base creature does not have this attack form, use the appropriate damage value from the table below according to the vampire’s size. Creatures that have other kinds of natural weapons retain their old damage values or use the appropriate value from the table below, whichever is better. Size Damage Fine 1 Diminutive 1d2 Tiny 1d3 Small 1d4 Medium 1d6 Large 1d8 Huge 2d6 Gargantuan 2d8 Colossal 4d6 Special Attacks A vampire retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below. Blood Drain (Ex) A vampire must drain a pint of blood from a living ceature once every 24 hours. Doing so is an attack action, and the vampire can only drain blood from a willing, helpless, or dying (but not dead) creature. The bitten creature takes normal damage from the bite attack plus an extra 1d6 points of damage from the blood loss. If a vampire goes 24 hours without consuming blood, i takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage. Drinking a pint of plood cures the ability damage caused by blood deprivation in 1d6 rounds. Ability damage caused by blood deprivation cannot be restored through natural healing. Special Qualities A vampire retains all the special qualities of the base creature, plus darkvision out to 60 feet. Light Sensitivity (Ex) Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight) blinds a vampire for one round. On subsequent rounds, the vampire is dazzled as long as it remains in the affected area. Ultraviolet Allergy (Ex) Ultraviolet light (including direct sunlight) burns a vampire for 2d6 points of fire damage per round and causes any light. flamable clothing it is wearing to ignite. Spells that deal more damage against targets sensitive to sunlight deal more damage against vampires. Achilles Heel (Heart) (Ex) Any attack roll made to confirm a critial hit with a peircing weapon against a vampire gains a +4 circumstance bonus. Abilities Vampires are frail. -2 Con. Skills Vampires have a +4 racial bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Intimidate checks made against creatures within 30 feet. Vampires have a +10 racial bonus on all Jump checks. Otherwise same as the base creature. Environment Any, usually same as base creature. Organization Solitary, pair, gang (3-5), or troupe (1-2 plus 2-5 vampire spawn) Challenge Rating Same as the base creature +0. Alignment Usually evil (any). Advancement By character class. Level Adjustment Same as the base creature. So it's not as 'good' as the Vampire template in the MM, but the penalties aren't as 'bad' either. The following Mutations/Drawbacks were used to create this vampire. A couple have been tweaked and are marked with (T). Ability Decay Blood Hunger Darkvision Fangs Leaper (T) Light Sensitivity Pheromone Attraction (T) Ultraviolet Allergy (T) Achilles Heel (T)
Zombomaniac 02-28-06, 10:20 AM	Here is something else I did a little while back. WereCreatures (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7758853#post7758853)
jagggar 02-28-06, 11:14 AM	Pi. Pika-pi? Chu! Ah yes, Dragon 313. *strokes it lovingly* My first issue. Had it not been for the "Animal Ancestry" article I wouldn't have picked it up. And thus began the love affair. . . Oddly enough, only two of the feats presented in the article were ones that could be considered lycanthrope only. The others were ones that could be used by just about anyone. *glances at the page again* Okay, maybe a third feat as well, but a minotaur has a gore attack too. Okay, this pack it seems we're creating. Why would different weres be adventuring together? Just an odd thought I had. And if the pack's gunna be evil, I might just have to start a new pack. I'm gunna experiement with reversing the lycanthrope template. Why be a werewolf when you can be a wolfwere? :)
Wilds 02-28-06, 12:05 PM	Legends hold that they could be the same. Man cursed to walk as a wolf. Or a wolf cursed to walk like a man. The wolfwere template would be interesting to see what it does. My lycan is proly going to be CN with a strong Hunter-predator mindset. I like the Races of Power Dragon issue, are those feats for lycans legal in the IFGW? cause if they are several of them would help the packs fighting abilities.
Demonfey 02-28-06, 12:12 PM	They actually do something like that in Pratchett's Reaper Man .
Wilds 02-28-06, 12:18 PM	Ok pack idea: Neutralish pack. So good and evil could balance each other out. The pack have banded together for security and belonging. They know that by being in a group of lycans they wont be singled out due to prejudice by "normal" people.
jagggar 02-28-06, 12:53 PM	Do something like what, DF? Don't you just love inspecific pronouns? :P I'm on the Size and Type line of the template. My first encounter with wolfweres was probably in the book about werewolves I slightly obssessed over in elementary (but I did return it to the library!). Then I think I encountered the animal cursed to take human form in a Ravenloft AD&D download on the site; catwere who murders the inn-keeper or something. Sure, I saw similar in Werewolf:tA, but don't expect me to be making metis flaws any time soon. Most recently I've read it in the Dark-Hunter series (romance novels are not for young eyes! There, I warned you.) where the two different types hate each other. They also get sorcerous powers and, at the height of the full-moon, can time-travel. (Unless they're really special, then they don't need the moon to do that. :D ) Edit: Rather than double post. . . I'm now on the attack section, and a thought struck me. How do werehawks and wereeagles end up with claw attacks when their arms presumably turn into wings?
Demonfey 02-28-06, 02:22 PM	I really need to work on that... Anyway, the book has the werehuman with a wolf as a base creature. For the were birds, they have clawed feet and the ability to fly, therefore the hybrids could, supposedly, take flight and begin clawing at their enemy.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 03:04 PM	i changed my mind. if anyone designs a pack, im willing to join it
Wilds 02-28-06, 03:30 PM	I'm having a werewolf for sure. CN
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 03:37 PM	CN It is then. ill make some type of werecreature once i decide what role i want to play .....does your group include all types of lycans or specific only?
Wilds 02-28-06, 04:12 PM	Its open to all lycans
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 04:16 PM	Hmmm....maybe a half-orc wereboar is in the making....i've yet to make or ever play one
Wilds 02-28-06, 05:17 PM	Wow talk about pig jokes a plenty. I think i read a story about a half orc wereboar once
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 05:21 PM	**EDIT** im going by the SRD's LA, +3
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 05:22 PM	ill get right on it then. Possibly a Half-Orc Wereboar, withleadership, leading a small clan of half-orcs....idk yet **EDIT** made a lvl 12 half-orc wereboar Ranger (w/ +3 LA) what are our our main types of enemies?
jagggar 02-28-06, 05:49 PM	I just realized no one actually answered your question about starting level. I'm not sure it looks like anyone here is planning to get in on "this round" before it ends. "Next round" is going to start at ECL 7. A half-orc wereboar without class levels would be ECL 6 (3HD+3LA) so you could have 1 class level for next round.
Demonfey 02-28-06, 06:01 PM	I just came up with the most terrigying idea for a were-creature: the were kender. Spread it around in cities, place a few wands around with shiny buttons and destructive spells, and you've got the makings of a disaster during the next full moon.
jagggar 02-28-06, 06:27 PM	Dear gods, NO!!!!! I've come upon a problem with my -were template. All goes well until I reach the abilities. A human werewolf has stats of 10,10,10,11,13,11 in its human form. In wolf and hybrid form it has stats of 12,14,14,11,13,11. An elf werewolf has stats of 10,12,8,11,13,11 in its elven form. In wolf and hybrid form it has stats of 12,16,12,11,13,11. A half-orc werewolf has stats of 12,10,10,9,13,9 in its half-orc form. In wolf and hybrid form it has stats of 14,14,14,9,13,9. The original creature's stats effect the ability scores of the alternate form, but the alternate form does not effect the scores of the original creature. I'm guessing three wolfweres would all have the same stats in wolf form, but different stats in humanoid form. Would different base animals change the final scores of the humanoid form's ability scores? Would the bearwere be stronger than the wolfwere when both were in humanoid form? Then there's the whole issue of mental stats. All but a few animals take charisma penalties, and we all know they have 1-2 intelligence and most seem to have +2 wisdom. Should mental scores be generated normally? Should intelligence and charisma have penalties?
Eglentyne 02-28-06, 06:48 PM	I can remember a few more, if I think on them. The Eleven counsel is having their anual meeting in their captail city of Evanenthyer, the counsel memebrs can't agree on the Elven myth of the werecreatures in thier socity. The subject brought up by a counsel member Dranzen who believes the Elven were creatures are a proublem to their socity. He begains "The myths never happen at all, but rather came about by an outside influance. By a curse to our most estemed race rather than the popular belief amoung the commen elf. As the common belief is that the elf's when they came to this world form our home world of Elenayther, wanted to believe in the forrest gods, As we know the myth is that the frist elf's study the animals and learned form them. A wizard who's name is lost in our great history combined the soul of a panther and his own. On the first moon turned into a panther, the gods would not allow such things to happen. why if this were the case, would not more of us become to this evil influnence. I say that the werecreatures are evil, they are abomanation to the gods. No god would allow such things to happen to our great race. we as a socity must drive them out from amonst us, and never allow them to rejoin our great race. If we do nothing and allow these creatues to live among us, we will all fall to the curse of the gods. I believe it's a curse from the elven gods and not as the popular belief is taught to our young a blessing. None of you can answer the question put before you, that is if this is a blessing brought about by the unkown wizard and the gods belssed him. why would the gods allow this to happen, we can defend our selves. We can use magic beyoned those of other races, this was brought about by an outside force to curse the elf's. We must drive them out from amonst us and kill the rest. No elf wizard in thier right mind would never combine an animal with an elf, to do so is an abomanation to our god and our race." The Elf repersentive sits down waiting for debate on the issue. Trinayther a counsler from the city of Slyventhyer stands up and quites the other elf's repersentives, "Estemed repersentives from all our cities in our Kingdom, how could this be a curse. for we benifit from the werecreatures that live amoung us, they guard our forrest. They join our elven army and act as scouts, to drive them from their own people is cruel. But it is something that must not ever happen, for they are citizens of our great Kingdom. they are peaceful and help more than they have ever hurt our race, be it by curse or by the wizard of myth. this action would allow some of your loved one's to be driven away into exile, or even worse. How many of our citizen would we have to kill, hundreds, thousands. No the wereelf's benifit our great Kingdom. Any elf who believes they are a curse to our race needs to learn from a were elf frist hand. Is not at least half the counsel made up of wereelf's, your wrong Dranzen. that is not to mention the King and Queen themselves, would you drive them out too or have them killed also." Queen Shannonathyer having watched and heard all of this makes a motion with her hand, displeased with Dranzen's remarks. Stands up with her eye's turning a bright green color. Ten of the counsel members turn in to werecreatures of different kinds, they jump over their tables heading towards Dranzens table. Dranzen runs towards the door the guards block his way out, he runs untill he's connered by the wereelf's. The werewolfs elf's are allowed to bite Dranzen serval times. The were elves turn into thier hybreed form, Trinayther speaks, "You will never again speak of such things again, the King and Queen are wereelf's, now you will become an wereelf. you will never insult the Queen again Dranzen, the King and Queen has decreed that they live amoung us. Never insult the great Eleven race again, believe what you wish; a curse or the wizard who by the blessing of the gods made the wereelf's. Now you will know what it's like Dranzen, never speak out of ridding our socity of our own citizens, and making them outcasts. If you speak out again against our elven brother and sisters your head will be on a post out side the palace walls" Dranzen feels the blood coming from his wounds, and just sits their shaking with fear untill some of the elven counslers have his wounds bound, by their assistants. The wereelf counslers stair at dranzen, while Dranzen stairs at the floor. Dranzen can see Queen Shannonathyer robes flowing arond her feet, with the werewolf's elf's around him. "Never speak of such trechery again Dranzen," Dranzen see's the bottom part of the Queens dress as she walks away. Such is the story of the elven counsel and the wereelf's in their socity and how one elf had to had their view changed about the wereelf's.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 07:27 PM	Ok, wow...that totally screwed me over. count me out. im not redoing a char again, i thought we were going by the usual ECL 15 or w.e we had before nevermind then. if i find something i feel like using, ill let you know. i may be able to dig one out of the archives.
Eglentyne 02-28-06, 07:32 PM	Dear gods, NO!!!!! I've come upon a problem with my -were template. All goes well until I reach the abilities. A human werewolf has stats of 10,10,10,11,13,11 in its human form. In wolf and hybrid form it has stats of 12,14,14,11,13,11. An elf werewolf has stats of 10,12,8,11,13,11 in its elven form. In wolf and hybrid form it has stats of 12,16,12,11,13,11. A half-orc werewolf has stats of 12,10,10,9,13,9 in its half-orc form. In wolf and hybrid form it has stats of 14,14,14,9,13,9. The original creature's stats effect the ability scores of the alternate form, but the alternate form does not effect the scores of the original creature. I'm guessing three wolfweres would all have the same stats in wolf form, but different stats in humanoid form. Would different base animals change the final scores of the humanoid form's ability scores? Would the bearwere be stronger than the wolfwere when both were in humanoid form? Then there's the whole issue of mental stats. All but a few animals take charisma penalties, and we all know they have 1-2 intelligence and most seem to have +2 wisdom. Should mental scores be generated normally? Should intelligence and charisma have penalties? I believe that those are base rolled stats ( the creatures made up at the time of creating them.), starting with a base rolled stats. then they are adjusted by form, of the were creature. on a character, it would be the same, start with one set of stats, and from there make adjustments as to what form your in at the time. we should just use the basic out line give and use those, to make the different forms stat numbers. Don't play with the core too much, it could harm the whole class. I personaly could see redoing some abilities such as out feats and skills that are too over powering. adjusting them some what to adjust to this world, if they are from a world that gives too many skills and feats.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 07:49 PM	well, i think i found something i might like.... CR 7 is ok right? Tauric Human-Dire Wolf Ranger 3 is that ok? ***EDIT*** not quite "were" but close. soon as he's approved, ill be ready to go.
Demonfey 02-28-06, 08:10 PM	Priest, did you by any chance mean ECL? Because tauric creatures still have LA.
Zombomaniac 02-28-06, 08:14 PM	well, i think i found something i might like.... Glad to hear it! :) CR 7 is ok right? Yes. Tauric Human-Dire Wolf Ranger 3 is that ok? Do Taurics have a LA or Racial HD? Dire Werewolf wont work. Werecreatures gain the HD of their animal so a Dire Werewolf Human would have 6HD from Dire Wolf and +3 LA if they are Natural, +2 if they are afflicted. So your character (assuming Tauric is ECL 0) is ECL 12. Non-Dire Wereboars, Wolves, and Rats are under ECL 7.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 08:25 PM	*slams head repeatedly into wall* will someone please review the character and let me know what to change? thanks. **EDIT** IT IS NOT A WEREWOLF.
Zombomaniac 02-28-06, 08:33 PM	HD 7d8+21 plus 3d8+9; hp 75 That would be a ECL 10, right there. Take off the 3 levels of Ranger and i think it is good. As long as Tauric have no LA, Racial HD, or any ECL then you would be in the clear without the Ranger stuff.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 02-28-06, 09:07 PM	(i didnt make him, merely redid some premade stats) what would i take off (ie skill points, etc)
jagggar 02-28-06, 10:21 PM	A -Were is really a form of lycanthropy spread between animals which grants them intelligence and the ability to take a humanoid form be it a curse or a blessing. Creating a -Were "-Were" is a template that can be added to any animal (refered to hereafter as the base animal). The -were template can be inherited (for natural -weres) or acquired (for afflicted -weres). Becoming a -were is much like multiclassing as a humanoid or giant and gaining the appropriate Hit Dice. An animal with the -were template qualifies for feats and PrCs with a prerequsite of "lycanthrope" even though some abilities may be less effective because they are often designed with normal lycanthropes in mind. Size and Type The base animal's type does not change, but the creature gains the shapechanger subtype. The -were takes on the characteristics of some bipedal creature of the giant or humanoid type (referred to hereafter as the base humanoid). The base humanoid can be any giant or humanoid whose size is within one size category of the base animal's size (Small, Medium, or Large for a medium base animal). -Weres can also adopt a hybrid shape that combines features of the base animal and the base humanoid. A -were's hybrid form is the same size as the base animal or base humanoid, whichever is larger. A -were uses either the base animal's or the base humanoid's statistics and special abilities in addition to those described here. Hit Dice and Hit Points Same as the base creature plus those of the base humanoid. A humanoid that normally has a class instead of 1 Hit Die counts as a 1 HD creature. To calculate total hit points, apply constitution modifiers according to the score the -were has in each form. (Hit points from class levels are calculated using the Constitution modifier in humanoid form.) Speed Same as the base animal or base humanoid, depending on which form the -were is using. Hybrids use the base humanoid's speed. Armor class The base animal's natural armor bonus increases by +2 in all forms. In hybrid form, the -were's natural armor bonus is equal to the natural armor bonus of the base animal or the base humanoid, whichever is better. Base Attack/Grapple Add the base attack bonus for the base humanoid to the base attack bonus for the base animal. The -were's grapple bonus uses its attack bonus and modifiers for Strength and size depending on the -were's form. Attacks Same as the base animal or base humanoid, depending on which form the -were is using. A -were in hybred form gains two claw attacks (or two hoof attacks if the base animal has hooves) and a bite attack as natural weapons These weapons deal damaged based on the hybrid form's size. A hybrid may attack with a weapon and a bite or may attack with its natural weapons. The bite attack of a hybrid is a secondary attack. Damage Same as the base animal or base humanoid, depending on which form the -were is in. Special attacks A -were retains the special attacks of the base animal or base humanoid, depending on what form it is using and also gains the special attacks described below. A -were's hybrid form does not gain any special attacks of the base animal. A -were spellcaster cannot cast spells with verbal or somatic components while in humanoid form or spells with somatic components while in hybrid form or spells with material components or a focus while in animal form. Curse of Lycanthropy (Su) Any animal hit by a natural -were's bite attack while in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy. If the victim's size is not within one size category of the -were's humanoid form, the victim cannot contract lycanthropy from that -were. Afflicted -weres cannot pass on the curse of lycanthropy. Special Qualities A -were retains all the special qualities of the base animal and base humanoid and also gains those descibed below. Alternate Form (Su) A -were can assume the form of a specific humanoid or giant )as indicated in its entry). Chainging to or from humanoid or hybrid form is a standard action. A slain -were reverts to its animal form, although it remains dead. Seperated body parts retain their humanoid form, however. Afflicted -weres find this ability difficult to control (see Lycantrhopy as an Affliction) but natural -weres hove full control over this power. Damage Reduction (Ex) An afflicted -were in humanoid or hybrid form has damage reduction 5/silver. A natural -were in humanoid or hybrid form has damage reductioin 10/silver. Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex) In any form, -weres can communicate and empathize with normal or dire animals of their animal form. This gives them a +4 racial bonus on checks when influencing the animal's attitude and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the animal is friendly) commands, such as "friend," "foe," "flee," and "attack." Low-Light Vision (Ex) A -were has low-light vision in any form. Scent A -were has the scent ability in any form. Base Save Bonus Add the base save bonuses of the base animal to the base save bonuses of the base humanoid. Abilities All weres have normal mental ability scores for the -were's humanoid form, +2 Wisdom. In addition, when in humanoid form the -were's ability scores are modified only by the base humanoid's ability score adjustments. In hybrid form, the -were's ability scores are modified by both the base animal's and base humanoid's ability score adjustments. In addition, a -were may also gain an additional ability score increase by virtue of its extra Hit Dice. Skills A -were gains skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die of its humanoid form, as if it had multiclassed into the humanoid or giant type. (This is never its first Hit Die, though, and it does not gain quadruple skill points for any humanoid or giant Hit Die.) Any skill given in the humanoid’s description is a class skill for the -were’s animal levels. In any form, a -were also has any racial skill bonuses of the base animal and of the base humanoid, although conditional skill bonuses only apply in the associated form. Feats Add the base humanoid’s feats to the base animal’s. If this results in a -were having the same feat twice, the -were gains no additional benefit unless the feat normally can be taken more once, in which case the duplicated feat works as noted in the feat description. This process may give the -were more feats than a character of its total Hit Dice would normally be entitled to; if this occurs, any "extra" feats are denoted as bonus feats. It’s possible that a -were cannot meet the prerequisites for all its feats when in humanoid form. If this occurs, the -were still has the feats, but cannot use them when in humanoid form. A -were receives Iron Will as a bonus feat. Environment Same as either the base animal or base humanoid. Organization Solitary or pair, sometimes family (3-4), pack (6-10), or troupe (family plus related animals). Challenge Rating Uhhh. . . . Treasure Standard Alignment Usually neutral. Advancement By character class. Level Adjustment Same as the base humanoid +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural). In addition, a -were’s character level is increased by the number of racial Hit Dice the base humanoid has.
Wilds 03-04-06, 09:13 PM	Does that concide with the were-template in the MM?
jagggar 03-04-06, 09:29 PM	Umm, how you using 'concide' in that sentance? It's supposed to be the Lycanthrope template in reverse. Should I complete it and get it approved, my character for the pack is gunna be a wolfwere.
Zombomaniac 03-04-06, 10:36 PM	Umm, how you using 'concide' in that sentance? It's supposed to be the Lycanthrope template in reverse. Should I complete it and get it approved, my character for the pack is gunna be a wolfwere. Wait. If this is Lycanthopesy in reverse then wouldn't it be Humanwere? :confused: In Wereness you state what you become not what you were. A Werewolf becomes a wolf and was a man. A Humanwere becomes a Human and was a wolf (or other animal)
jagggar 03-04-06, 10:44 PM	A werewolf becomes a wolf, so a werehuman would become a human (not a humanwere). As I recall (and this was in elementary), if it's an animal who becomes human, you put the animal first. I could see a case, especially with the different races, that your tradtional werewolf (human to wolf) might be rightly called a humanwerewolf.
Wilds 03-05-06, 01:17 AM	O, ok nm then. I got confused by the colors and font and ...well ya....
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 01:25 AM	Oh, Wilds...I'll be using that Tauric of mine, once we figure out what to take off from the Ranger levels bonuses
Wilds 03-05-06, 01:33 AM	how about we figure out what the template does, the base race and tehn work from there? REverse engineering can cause way to many head aches. Ill help either way though
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 02:04 AM	It was a Tauric Human/Dire Wolf basically a centaur like creature with wolf parts instead of a horse & as i made him...the upper body of a werewolf as well anyway, all that really needs to be done is see what would be gained by 3 levels of the ranger class & remove aforementioned bonuses...
Zombomaniac 03-05-06, 12:15 PM	It was a Tauric Human/Dire Wolf basically a centaur like creature with wolf parts instead of a horse & as i made him...the upper body of a werewolf as well anyway, all that really needs to be done is see what would be gained by 3 levels of the ranger class & remove aforementioned bonuses... Ok wait. Break that down. Race wise this is a Dire Wolf + a Human + a Werewolf? Of so then that is over 7 ECL. I found Tauric (forgot it was in MM2) and I dont see a LA on that.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 01:51 PM	no no no not + werewolf...i meant he doesnt look human on the top half, he looks ALL wolf, but centaur-like
Zombomaniac 03-05-06, 02:10 PM	no no no not + werewolf...i meant he doesnt look human on the top half, he looks ALL wolf, but centaur-like So it looks like lower half Dire wolf upper half Werewolf Hybrid form, but is really just a upper half Human?
turalisj 03-05-06, 02:40 PM	Hmm.... I'm going to stick a snow elf werewolf swashbuckler in here, just for fun. Plus, you'll need a northern section to spread the blessing of lycanthropy. :D
jagggar 03-05-06, 03:35 PM	Not that I really enjoy bubble bursting, but . . . Tauric Creature: Monstrous Humanoid; 10 ft./5 ft.; Intimidate +5, Jump +13, Listen +8, Move Silently +5, Spot +7; Alertness, Great Fortitude, Iron Will; LA Base humanoid +3; Sample creature: Iron Will feat increases Will save to +4. See Monster Manual glossary for revised definition of rake. That would be from the MM2 3.5 update packet-thingy.
Wilds 03-05-06, 03:40 PM	so it doesnt look like a wolf tauric will work priest turalisj: you making a lycan? want to make a pack with mine?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 03:58 PM	how bout i make a new lycan...and join up with the pack? now...does anyone know what the LA off of http://pathguy.com/cg35.htm would be for either werebear or wereboar? cause it's telling me +3 right now....
Wilds 03-05-06, 04:06 PM	werebear - black natural 3 + 3 hd = +6 ECL afflicted 2 + 3 hd = +5 ECL wereboar natural 3 + 3 hd = +6 ECL afflicted 2 + 3 hd = +5 ECL
turalisj 03-05-06, 04:28 PM	turalisj: you making a lycan? want to make a pack with mine? Yeah, I'm making a lycan. An arctic wolf lycan at that, but still a lycan. I dunno, he might be a sorcerer and aiming for frost mage. How about this, when the lycans take over the world, I get the cold regions and you get everywhere else. But, yeah, he's a lycan either way.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 04:34 PM	damn, ok...have to remake him then Natural Dwarven Werebear Fighter 1
turalisj 03-05-06, 04:37 PM	Natural werewolf Snow Elf sorcerer2 for me. I have a -2 charisma, but get +2 dex and no con penalty like a normal elf lycan would (snow elves are hardier than thier temperate cousins)
jagggar 03-05-06, 04:38 PM	*shudders* I can see pack conflicts forming already. . . hehehehe. . . And you should note that that's a black bear. The werebear in the MM is based on the brown bear. Black bear's racial modifiers are +8 Str, +2 Dex, and +4 Con.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 04:44 PM	look...once i finish him, ill post him...if something isnt right, let me know, because the generator doesnt show some things.
turalisj 03-05-06, 04:47 PM	Same here. Perhaps we can have a little battle afterwards.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 04:56 PM	um...found a premade lycan...sent to jaggar for examination...dunno if it'll work but im praying...
jagggar 03-05-06, 05:13 PM	That's an ECL of 11 or 12 (afflicted or natural). What's with all the pregenerated characters?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 05:22 PM	That's an ECL of 11 or 12 (afflicted or natural). What's with all the pregenerated characters? gah...nothing EVER works in my favor...damn it. i use pregen's because it saves me a lot of time making them. so, what...how bout this: Natural Human Werewolf Rogue 1 that ok? that would be ECL 7 right?
jagggar 03-05-06, 05:28 PM	That'd be ECL 6, so add on one more level of Rogue (or another class) and you should be good to go. I'm hoping dropping it down 7th level helps cut down on the time, since that's 8 whole levels we won't have to deal with anymore when making new characters.
Wilds 03-05-06, 05:29 PM	Im goign Natural Werewolf and i dont know what for my character classes yet. Thinkign fighter or barbarian
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 05:38 PM	That'd be ECL 6, so add on one more level of Rogue (or another class) and you should be good to go. I'm hoping dropping it down 7th level helps cut down on the time, since that's 8 whole levels we won't have to deal with anymore when making new characters. ok Natural Human Werewolf Rogue 2 workin on him now.
turalisj 03-05-06, 05:51 PM	*a kender painted green rolls in* Begun, the clan wars have.
jagggar 03-05-06, 06:15 PM	Okay, last thing to remember is 32 point-buy. I'm probably gunna go fighter or barbarian as well. Might wanna think about my character more, see if she'd have any clerical leanings. Right now, I see us running around, baddest thing under the full moon. . . until we come across someone with a silver weapon. Then we run away, whimpering, our tails between our legs.
turalisj 03-05-06, 06:19 PM	Ok, should I go cleric instead? I could do either realy, and the +2 wis realy helps.
Wilds 03-05-06, 06:59 PM	@jagggar: is it possible to vouche for a core class yet? hexblade looks relaly interesting for a lycan @priest, have u seen the rogue variant: wilderness rogue? that basically what it is, skills are changed so that it can survive in the wilds with easy but keep SA and the other fun stuff rogues get
jagggar 03-05-06, 07:04 PM	I believe I've got all the base classes which are allowed in the second or so post of Meta. Hexblade is allowed.
Zombomaniac 03-05-06, 07:09 PM	@T I would say go Cleric. The +2 Wis is better than the -2 Char and we could use a cleric. --------- Mmmmm....Wilderness Rogue...sounds tasty.... ;) I'm gonna go Natural Human Werebear (Black Bear) Fighter 1 and mabye CE. Not sure yet.
turalisj 03-05-06, 07:12 PM	Ok. I'm going to go rimfire wizard (male version of the rimfire witch) later on. The class has a special thing where I have to go on a mini-quest to an iceberg. I'm going to post my character at the PC thread.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 07:20 PM	im actually going wilderness rogue. :P
jagggar 03-05-06, 07:20 PM	You realize it'll have to be approved first, right? And come to think of it, I think snow elf might also need to be approved first. What book is it in?
Wilds 03-05-06, 07:21 PM	ok, i thought u were doubting the decision to allow those before, ok i get it now Going Natural Werewolf Hexblade 2, now to figure out a race, human seems best, but then again a cleric would be useful
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 07:24 PM	You realize it'll have to be approved first, right? And come to think of it, I think snow elf might also need to be approved first. What book is it in? gah it's not that difficult. think urban ranger's opposite but rogue-style if that makes sense...
turalisj 03-05-06, 07:36 PM	You realize it'll have to be approved first, right? And come to think of it, I think snow elf might also need to be approved first. What book is it in? Snow elf s from frostburn. The only diffrence between a high elf and a snow elf is that the snow elf is hardier (no con penalty) but is colder (charisma penalty) Shouldn't be too hard to get approved. I mean, it's no diffrent from any other elf variant. Oh, and I could take demonfey up on that werepenguin thing. They only have 1hd.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 07:44 PM	werepenguin? that's oddly intruiging... character posted....shouldnt be hard to approve the only thing... Large Claw Gauntlets ( modified claw bracers from the AaEG) just changed size/damage as appropriate and added slashing to the list of damage types because the blades are longer & sharper
Wilds 03-05-06, 08:36 PM	Any one with a silver weapon will only the my lycans claws at its throat, it wont have a chance to see his tail. ;) Ok so we have a rogue, sorcerer and a fighter/barbarian/cleric decision and a hexblade/cleric decision. Im partial to the all out offensive style which hexblade would seem suited too with out going fighter or barbarian, though the issue of casting spells in hybrid form is an issue. Is that mentioned anywhere? is it possible? ill play a cleric though, btu either way my char is going melee
Wilds 03-05-06, 08:51 PM	were is the Black Blood Hunter prestige class located?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-05-06, 08:52 PM	yay, Bloodshed!
Zombomaniac 03-05-06, 11:34 PM	Ok so far we have: 1. Kobold_Ur_Priest -Werewolf Rogue 2. Wilds-Werewolf Hexblade or Cleric 3. Turalisj-Werewolf (artic) Cleric or Sorc 4. Jagggar-Werewolf (or are you going Wolfwere?) Fighter or Barbarian 5. Zombomaniac-Werebear (black) Fighter 6. Eglentyne-Werepanther Rogue And we shall gain more in time. I also like the all out offensive style and think that it would likely be our best choice; we are a pack of Were-Creatures assuming that offence style that our animal cousins employ would be best and we need not worry of Silver for we shall plan for it accordingly. We have the numbers, we have the strength, and we have the will. We need only plan accordingly.
jagggar 03-06-06, 12:35 AM	Silly elven variants. . . the only thing... Large Claw Gauntlets ( modified claw bracers from the AaEG) just changed size/damage as appropriate and added slashing to the list of damage types because the blades are longer & sharper3.5 Update strikes again. :( Weapon sizes aren't the same for 3.0 and 3.5. A tiny weapon in 3.0 becomes a light melee weapon sized for a medium creature. So the claw bracer would only be able to go up one size in damage to become a medium weapon. Wolfwere if possible. I can see people taking our equipment and thinking we'll be helpless when they return us to our natural forms. Well look out baby, I gots teeth! CastingA lycanthrope spellcaster cannot cast spells with verbal, somatic, or material components while in animal form, or spells with verbal components while in hybrid form.
Wilds 03-06-06, 12:42 AM	Damn, so i need to figure out how to get around that. grrrr w/o silence spell, that owns casters like hexblades
turalisj 03-06-06, 06:49 AM	Ok so far we have: 1. Kobold_Ur_Priest -Werewolf Rogue 2. Wilds-Werewolf Hexblade or Cleric 3. Turalisj-Werewolf (artic) Cleric or Sorc 4. Jagggar-Werewolf (or are you going Wolfwere?) Fighter or Barbarian 5. Zombomaniac-Werebear (black) Fighter 6. Eglentyne-Werepanther Rogue And we shall gain more in time. I also like the all out offensive style and think that it would likely be our best choice; we are a pack of Were-Creatures assuming that offence style that our animal cousins employ would be best and we need not worry of Silver for we shall plan for it accordingly. We have the numbers, we have the strength, and we have the will. We need only plan accordingly. Cleric. I've already started statting my character out accordingly. I figure what's the point of worrying about silly silvered weapons if I can cast protection from arrows and protection from good.
Wilds 03-06-06, 10:21 AM	Ok, ill go hexblade for sure. Ill stat it today @Jaggger, if I modify the Black Blood Hunter prestige class from Player's Guide to Fauren and tone it down if necassary would it be possible. I would then have to write about it and show that its not broken?
jagggar 03-06-06, 10:47 AM	Like those two spells will be able to prevent everyone with a silvered weapon from attack us. Ha! Surrogate Spellcasting would help with form changes. Unless you'd make major changes or key flavor changes (something beyond a worshiped deity), I'm thinking you might get away with making those changes as part of your case for including the material. (Blah,blah,blah. This ability is overpowered, so I'd suggest this as the fix. Blah,blah,blah.) I'll get a new approval thread up this week. I'm gunna do what I can to finish my -were template first so I can have some examples of write-ups.
Wilds 03-06-06, 12:50 PM	More like part of it requires a feat from BoVD and thus does not work. Ill find a similair prequesite when I post the modifed form of it and modify the abilitys to suit
jagggar 03-06-06, 02:20 PM	Yeah, that might cause a bit of a problem. . . The ranger swung off his horse and bent over the tracks. They looked like wolf-prints to the untrained eye, but he could see that they were different and the creatures that had left them walked on two legs. "Werewolves," he grinned. He whistled, pulling out his two-bladed sword. "Here boy. I got a present for you." Three wolfmen leaped at him from out of the bushes. The blades of his weapon flashed silver in the light of the moon as it tore into the creatures attacking him. "Gotch'ya!" Much to his demise, it was not three unarmed peasnts which surrounded him, but three intelligent and very angery wolves. . . * * * "Really, he could have just left the horse and gone with his life." "I guess it's just the way of two-legs to think they can take us on." "Come on, let's get this meal back to the rest of the pack. Leave the two-leg here for the scavengers." The first two returned to their natural forms as the third lead the horse by the reins. For ya'll's approval, the -Were template (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8585503#post8585503).
Eglentyne 03-06-06, 02:38 PM	Zombomaniac Ok so far we have: 1. Kobold_Ur_Priest -Werewolf Rogue 2. Wilds-Werewolf Hexblade or Cleric 3. Turalisj-Werewolf (artic) Cleric or Sorc 4. Jagggar-Werewolf (or are you going Wolfwere?) Fighter or Barbarian 5. Zombomaniac-Werebear (black) Fighter 6. Eglentyne-Werepanther Rogue My werepanther is ranger, I think she will be in forrest guild. As they say in my country don't cook all your gooses before you count them. My weretiger(kender) is the rouge, No one ask him about pack thing. I look at were template, were is +2 wisdom from the were temeplate it is in srd were template. put in the one you make also. if you ask me.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 03:22 PM	3.5 Update strikes again. :( Weapon sizes aren't the same for 3.0 and 3.5. A tiny weapon in 3.0 becomes a light melee weapon sized for a medium creature. So the claw bracer would only be able to go up one size in damage to become a medium weapon. cant i just increase it again til it becomes Large?! it's not that difficult... if not all i have to do is drop it to 1d6
Wilds 03-06-06, 03:30 PM	The template looks good Jaggger, I didnt see anything wrong with it. this is what I have so far for the modifed Black Blood Hunter: Modified Black Blood Hunter from Players Guide to Fauren: Prerequisite: Feat Change Vile Natural Attack to Improved Natural Attack -MM Class Features: Change Improved Vile Natural Attack to The Beast Lord’s Blessing 4th level:Change damage from +1d4 Vile damage to +1d4 Silver damage. 8th level:Change damage from +1d6 Vile damage to +1d6 Silver damage. Validation of change and why it shoudl be allowed. Black Blood Hunter is originally some what dependent on Vile damage. Which is banned as it is part of the BoVD. The prerequisite feat was changed to make it compatible with the said ban. The class feature was a more tricky matter. Simply just adding damage would not keep with the class ideal and weaken the class more than it is already. Thus in place of Vile damage, the 4th and 8th level abilites of the class will give the character Silver damage. Silver was chosen because it is the major weakness of lycanthropes. Which is following in the dogma of Malar. The hunter and the prey. There comes a time when a lycanthrope is too weak to have such an honor of being a lycanthrope, it is times like these that Hunter’s would be sent to challenge the fallen lycan to a hunt. The winner would live, the weaker die and return its energy to the pack in the form of food. Thus keeping the pack strong and not allowing any weakness to penetrate deep. The class is balanced I believe before and after modification. It does not advance previous class abilities as is common in prestige classes. Nor does it give new abilities that outshine previous ones. The class builds upon abilities the character already has.
jagggar 03-06-06, 04:33 PM	cant i just increase it again til it becomes Large?! it's not that difficult... if not all i have to do is drop it to 1d6It's already a weapon sized for a medium creature, so increasing it to being sized for a large creature is only one step.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 07:07 PM	then it's fine @ 2d6. good. *note- the weapon ITSELF is large sized, somewhat larger than Wolverine's from X-Men & a little thicker.-
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 07:18 PM	It's kinda like THIS: http://www.888knivesrus.com/product/NVEB730 Mixed with, THIS: http://www.swords-and-more.com/shop/catalog/images/riddick.jpg :OMG! :shocked: :gah: :bow: :clap: :w00t:
Wilds 03-06-06, 07:31 PM	preist priest.....at least pick something fun :devil: :love: say hello to my little friend..... http://www.thecollectorsedge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CE-TA57 :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
jagggar 03-06-06, 07:40 PM	No. A claw bracer sized for a large character deals 1d6 damage. It'd look like this if it was printed in the PHB. Exoitic Weapons Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical RangeIncrement Weight Type Light Melee Weapons Claw bracer 30gp 1d3 1d4 19-20/x2 --- 2 lb Piercing So when you increase its size to large, it becomes 1d6 damage.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 07:42 PM	preist priest.....at least pick something fun :devil: :love: say hello to my little friend..... http://www.thecollectorsedge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CE-TA57 :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: funny thing is, THATS what i was looking for ! lol great minds DO think alike. or how bout this beast: http://www.thecollectorsedge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CE-TA64 or this...: http://www.thecollectorsedge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CE-2088 or this: http://www.thecollectorsedge.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CE-TA52
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 07:45 PM	No. A claw bracer sized for a large character deals 1d6 damage. It'd look like this if it was printed in the PHB. Exoitic Weapons Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical RangeIncrement Weight Type Light Melee Weapons Claw bracer 30gp 1d3 1d4 19-20/x2 --- 2 lb Piercing So when you increase its size to large, it becomes 1d6 damage. Ah, alright, I must've looked at the increase table wrong in the AaEG unless I was changed...cause it said from the original 1d4 to Large (3 increases) would be 2d6. ill change it though, thanks
Zombomaniac 03-06-06, 07:48 PM	Ill stick with my natural claw attacks myself. :)
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 07:53 PM	edited upper post, added a few others...take a look.
Zombomaniac 03-06-06, 08:05 PM	I like Wild's the best.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 08:21 PM	I like Wild's the best. thats actually what im using ^_^, i just couldnt find the pic when i was looking for one.
turalisj 03-06-06, 08:35 PM	Wouldn't the claw bracer be piercing and slashing? You stab it into someone, then rip down or up or whatever.........
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 08:41 PM	Wouldn't the claw bracer be piercing and slashing? You stab it into someone, then rip down or up or whatever......... mine is, being larger size, it has become more like that in the picture.
jagggar 03-06-06, 08:50 PM	Well I'd think that the one Wild's posted would actually be a panther claw, not the claw bracer.
Wilds 03-06-06, 08:56 PM	I still like mine the best too :D Most claw looking one Any comments on my proposed changes?
Eglentyne 03-06-06, 09:09 PM	CREATING A LYCANTHROPE “Lycanthrope” is a template that can be added to any humanoid or giant (referred to hereafter as the base creature). The lycanthrope template can be inherited (for natural lycanthropes) or acquired (for afflicted lycanthropes). Becoming a lycanthrope is very much like multiclassing as an animal and gaining the appropriate Hit Dice. Size and Type: The base creature’s type does not change, but the creature gains the shapechanger subtype. The lycanthrope takes on the characteristics of some type of carnivorous or omnivorous creature of the animal type (referred to hereafter as the base animal). This animal can be any predator, scavenger, or omnivore whose size is within one size category of the base creature’s size (Small, Medium, or Large for a Medium base creature). Lycanthropes can also adopt a hybrid shape that combines features of the base creature and the base animal. A lycanthrope’s hybrid form is the same size as the base animal or the base creature, whichever is larger. A lycanthrope uses either the base creature’s or the base animal’s statistics and special abilities in addition to those described here. Hit Dice and Hit Points: Same as the base creature plus those of the base animal. To calculate total hit points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the score the lycanthrope has in each form. Speed: Same as the base creature or base animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. Hybrids use the base creature’s speed. Armor Class: The base creature’s natural armor bonus increases by +2 in all forms. In hybrid form, the lycanthrope’s natural armor bonus is equal to the natural armor bonus of the base animal or the base creature, whichever is better. Base Attack/Grapple: Add the base attack bonus for the base animal to the base attack bonus for the base creature. The lycanthrope’s grapple bonus uses its attack bonus and modifiers for Strength and size depending on the lycanthrope’s form. Attacks: Same as the base creature or base animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is using. A lycanthrope in hybrid form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons. These weapons deal damage based on the hybrid form’s size. A hybrid may attack with a weapon and a bite, or may attack with its natural weapons. The bite attack of a hybrid is a secondary attack. Hybrid Size Claw Bite Small 1d3 1d4 Medium 1d4 1d6 Large 1d6 1d8 Huge 2d4 2d6 Damage: Same as the base creature or base animal, depending on which form the lycanthrope is in. Special Attacks: A lycanthrope retains the special attacks of the base creature or base animal, depending on which form it is using, and also gains the special attacks described below. A lycanthrope’s hybrid form does not gain any special attacks of the base animal. A lycanthrope spellcaster cannot cast spells with verbal, somatic, or material components while in animal form, or spells with verbal components while in hybrid form. Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a natural lycanthrope’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy. If the victim’s size is not within one size category of the lycanthrope the victim cannot contract lycanthropy from that lycanthrope. Afflicted lycanthropes cannot pass on the curse of lycanthropy. Special Qualities: A lycanthrope retains all the special qualities of the base creature and the base animal, and also gains those described below. Alternate Form (Su): A lycanthrope can shift into animal form as though using the polymorph spell on itself, though its gear is not affected, it does not regain hit points for changing form, and only the specific animal form indicated for the lycanthrope can be assumed. It does not assume the ability scores of the animal, but instead adds the animal’s physical ability score modifiers to its own ability scores. A lycanthrope also can assume a bipedal hybrid form with prehensile hands and animalistic features. Changing to or from animal or hybrid form is a standard action. A slain lycanthrope reverts to its humanoid form, although it remains dead. Separated body parts retain their animal form, however. Afflicted lycanthropes find this ability difficult to control (see Lycanthropy as an Affliction, below), but natural lycanthropes have full control over this power. Damage Reduction (Ex): An afflicted lycanthrope in animal or hybrid form has damage reduction 5/silver. A natural lycanthrope in animal or hybrid form has damage reduction 10/silver. Lycanthropic Empathy (Ex): In any form, lycanthropes can communicate and empathize with normal or dire animals of their animal form. This gives them a +4 racial bonus on checks when influencing the animal’s attitude and allows the communication of simple concepts and (if the animal is friendly) commands, such as “friend,” “foe,” “flee,” and “attack.” Low-Light Vision (Ex): A lycanthrope has low-light vision in any form. Scent (Ex): A lycanthrope has the scent ability in any form. Base Save Bonuses: Add the base save bonuses of the base animal to the base save bonuses of the base creature. Abilities: All lycanthropes gain +2 to Wisdom. In addition, when in animal form, a lycanthrope’s physical ability scores improve according to its kind, as set out in the table below. These adjustments are equal to the animal’s normal ability scores –10 or –11. A lycanthrope in hybrid form modifies its physical ability scores by the same amount. In addition, a lycanthrope may also gain an additional ability score increase by virtue of its extra Hit Dice. Skills: A lycanthrope gains skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die of its animal form, as if it had multiclassed into the animal type. (Animal is never its first Hit Die, though, and it does not gain quadruple skill points for any animal Hit Die.) Any skill given in the animal’s description is a class skill for the lycanthrope’s animal levels. In any form, a lycanthrope also has any racial skill bonuses of the base creature and of the base animal, although conditional skill bonuses only apply in the associated form.
jagggar 03-06-06, 09:10 PM	Ummm, that I have to check PGtF again. Oh, and I gotta say it's slightly annoying knowing that some of these beautiful things cost the same as some D&D books.
Wilds 03-06-06, 09:19 PM	...i spent 20 bucks on Double Impact from collectors edge. It arrived at my house and i had to wiat for a break from school to see it. WEll..... the design mechanism for it is horribly built and the insturment it self is of poor quality. Thusly this spring break i am shaving down the metal walls of one of the handles and possibly boring out part of the inside. Aggervating....
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 09:49 PM	Well I'd think that the one Wild's posted would actually be a panther claw, not the claw bracer. Another reason i said mine was MODIFIED, it's like the one i put in my sig (Wild's original) except it has nearly arm-length bracers attached. it's cool cause it's considered unarmed :D
jagggar 03-06-06, 10:10 PM	Another reason i said mine was MODIFIED, it's like the one i put in my sig (Wild's original) except it has nearly arm-length bracers attached. it's cool cause it's considered unarmed :D What's considered unarmed? I'm lost about that part. And I'm getting weird questions going on in my head when cross-referencing with your character sheet. Doesn't look like any of your forms puts you at large size yourself, so the large claw bracer would be inappropriately sized (a -2 penalty on attacks).
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 10:47 PM	the bracer/gauntlet thing is considered unarmed, unless i read incorrectly and i thought creatures could use an item one size larger than theirs without penalty (ie bastard sword or greatsword) being wielder by a Med. creature. if not ill just drop it back to 1d6....
Moriok_Mephidross 03-06-06, 10:55 PM	How would you wear a bracer thats too large for your arm? You can't, thats why it don't work with bracers and stuff like that.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 11:13 PM	How would you wear a bracer thats too large for your arm? You can't, thats why it don't work with bracers and stuff like that. you wouldnt understand i'd have to sit here and explain to you what i mean,....
jagggar 03-06-06, 11:19 PM	the bracer/gauntlet thing is considered unarmed, unless i read incorrectly I don't get that out of what I'm reading. If it was an unarmed attack, it'd be under a heading which said "Unarmed Attacks" I'm guessing you're getting that from the part that says you can cast spells normally. and i thought creatures could use an item one size larger than theirs without penalty (ie bastard sword or greatsword) being wielder by a Med. creature. That's a 3.0 thing. In 3.0, weapons one size category larger than you had to be weilded in two hands. In 3.5, weapon sizes became descriptive of the weapon's weilder so a medium dagger, medium longsword, and medium greatsword are all weapons the appropriate size for a medium-size creature. if not ill just drop it back to 1d6.... You'd still take the -2 penalty to attacks for weilding a large weapon as a medium creature.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-06-06, 11:26 PM	1d6 is MEDIUM sized.
Eglentyne 03-06-06, 11:28 PM	I found a kender bag on the kender web site, can we use it if I bring it to her and let you see the bag. kender do like to have bags that hold many things.
Moriok_Mephidross 03-06-06, 11:42 PM	1d6 is MEDIUM sized. No, 1d4 is sized for a medium creature. A weapon sized for a large creature is 1d6. Increasing the weapon size to increase the damage wouldn't work because the weapon is a bracer. You'd have to have an arm bigger than you are to wear it. Why not just use the bladed gauntlet or something if you want a sword on your arm?
Wilds 03-07-06, 12:39 AM	bladed gauntlet dont work too well with lycans and that whole changing shape thingy
jagggar 03-07-06, 11:26 AM	I'm not sure how a claw bracer would work with animal form either. It'd extend past your paw (assuming it didn't fall off because your wrist probably gets smaller) and you'd have trouble running, possibly even walking normally. I'd guess you'd have to walk with your paw up as if it were hurt. Speaking of equipment and form changes, anyone else thought about the problems we might encounter with storage? (Not to mention clothing. . .)
Wilds 03-07-06, 12:04 PM	Presuming i get the prestige class clearered, i wont ahve any issue with armor after level 9 i think, the Wild ability armor can get works for my shape change. Ya, i dont really know how we are going to deal with the clothing thingy. I might just stay in wolf form cause i dont ahve to cast spells or anything, that way I can fight and not loss clothes. Though still trying to figure out how magic items work out. A bag of holding will take care of the storage issue.
Demonfey 03-07-06, 01:03 PM	Maybe a wilding clasp to keep things from merging with your form? And doesn't most magic armor change shape anyway?
Wilds 03-07-06, 01:23 PM	it does, but i dont think that you get to keep the qualities of the armor when you chagne. Otherwise the Wild armor enhancement woudl be worthless
Demonfey 03-07-06, 01:30 PM	Let me rephrase that: magical armor basically acts as one size fits all, right? As long as they can actually fit into said armor in the first place?
Wilds 03-07-06, 01:36 PM	Actualyl the armor resizes it self to fit any one that trys to put it on. A magic armor originally made for a kender then enchanted. Would stretch to fit a human or orge comfortably.
jagggar 03-07-06, 01:36 PM	But how do you hold that bag of holding? I wouldn't be carrying one around all day in my mouth. I'm kinda thinking an exotic pack saddle might work. But it does have the problem of being heavy. I'd guess we toss a bunch of spare peasant's outfits in the bag of holding for when we might actually have to venture into town to get supplies. Or maybe have a few of us pretend to be druids and the rest of us animal companions. Where's the wilding clasp? In OA, ther's shapeshifting armor, which is basicly wild armor but for alternate form and change shape abilities. I don't know if they merge now that wildshape is alternate form with a few differences. But sadly it costs too much to purchase right off the bat.
Wilds 03-07-06, 01:39 PM	Uhh maybe Races of the Wild there was a 3.0 edition in the Druids splatbook
Demonfey 03-07-06, 01:53 PM	If it helps, I remember seeing a copy of it in the Oriental Adventures book for some reason.
jagggar 03-07-06, 02:31 PM	I'm not sure about armor resizing itself. In DMG 3.0 there is the sentance, "Magic armor, like almost all magic items, resizes itself to fit the wearer." but it's been removed from the 3.5 version and a set of numbers to roll to decide if a set of armor or weapon is small, medium, or other has been added. (Gah, I need more space. I've got 4 books open already and my keyboard on my lap. 5 with OA.)
Demonfey 03-07-06, 02:40 PM	You know, you could've just asked me to tell you about it. The wilding clasp, when attached to an item, allows the item to be used by beings that transform, like if a wizard used polymorph but wanted to use his headband of intelligence, he could clasp the chain to the headband and the other part of the chain on the clasp to the rest of the clasp, and then if he turned into a wolf, for instance, the headband and clasp would stay outside of his form and probably resize to keep things simple. Of course, if said wizard turned into something that secreted strong acid from its skin, said object would take damage from the acid. Effectively, its a collar for forgetful people that change form often and like having magical items on them in all forms.
jagggar 03-07-06, 03:04 PM	I need more storage space in general too. My closet is full of boxes up to the height that the shirts hang down to. There's boxes still allover most of my room. . . . Last year at college was just a fluke and having a roomie who cleaned frequently. I like reading things myself for some odd reason. I can go and be annoying and point out that our stuff doesn't meld with us. :D But we probably don't want me to do that, right? I think maybe a starting point could be deciding what magic items a wolf might be able to wear. SS says that a wolf could wear a magic ring in its ear.
Wilds 03-07-06, 03:17 PM	a magic ring shoudl resize to fit any form the werewolf or creautre takes. it is written some were in the dmg or mm i think. or maybe dracomonicon. I honestly cant remember, but i know that it woudl resize to fit anyform
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-07-06, 03:31 PM	No, 1d4 is sized for a medium creature. A weapon sized for a large creature is 1d6. Increasing the weapon size to increase the damage wouldn't work because the weapon is a bracer. You'd have to have an arm bigger than you are to wear it. Why not just use the bladed gauntlet or something if you want a sword on your arm? i want something that will act sort of like CLAWS while in human form that does atleast 1 or 2 d6 & then slap unholy on it. also, anyone know if Wilding(?) armor would be available to me @ ECL 7?
Wilds 03-07-06, 04:06 PM	it is the enhancement only costs 9k, but the wild affect does apply to werewolves
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-07-06, 04:15 PM	it is the enhancement only costs 9k, but the wild affect does apply to werewolves ok ill be sure to upgrade my armor anyway what to do about weapons?
jagggar 03-07-06, 09:54 PM	No, you forget the +1 you need before you can get the +3 wild quality, so it's a minimum of 16,000gp for shapeshifting armor. Sadly, that means we can't get it yet.
Wilds 03-07-06, 09:55 PM	Weapons? Im going to upgrade my charactes def and stuff and just maul people until they dont move anymore. Ways to upgrade claws are hard. And im not using weapons, you could go kensai....but that would be really strange. from srd: Wild: The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen. Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, baleful polymorph; Price +3 bonus. I dont believe Wild enhancement affects the shape change that werewolves undergo. Part of the Black Blood Hunter allows for the Wild enhancement to affect the werewolve as if it was under the affect of wildshape.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-07-06, 10:07 PM	what should i do for my weapons though? i want something "Claw"-like for my human for, so i can maintain the feralness... some type of gauntlets or bracers so the attack will be considered unarmed... which does at least 1 or 2 d6 and then ill add unholy to it i need some killer claw weapons.... like the one wilds posted for me.... could we design some or are there anythings close to them?
jagggar 03-07-06, 10:11 PM	Improved Natural Weapon (Bite) :) Lucky us, there's shapeshifting armor (OA*). It's exactly the same as wild armor, except that it works with the alternate form and change shape supernatural abilties. And when I say it's the exact same thing, I mean it, right down to the spell needed and price. So while I doubt the wilding clasp would work for us, there's surely a shapeshifting clasp. I actually know of a way you can use your claws in humanoid form, but I'm gunna check with the other GMs first because there's two versions of a prerequisite. *Most of OA has actually been approved (mostly wanna check the monsterous races out first). I just need to get off my lazy bum and post so in Meta.
Wilds 03-07-06, 10:12 PM	we can design one im just gana have my character have some human weapon so he can pass off as a human or what ever race he is so that he isnt killed on site when he goes into a town.
Zombomaniac 03-07-06, 10:25 PM	I'm gonna do my fighting in Hybrid or animal form. If I am in human form I am hiding and if i am hiding I'll pretend to be a Woodmen. Put an ax on my back and villager clothes (a little too big so once I change they will be snug instead of ripped) and the ax will not be magical most likely. ill spend the gold on stat increasment.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-07-06, 10:34 PM	we can design one im just gana have my character have some human weapon so he can pass off as a human or what ever race he is so that he isnt killed on site when he goes into a town. I want THIS: http://www.apex-cutlery.com/images/Pantera_display.jpg But able to do 1 or 2 d6 and then add Unholy to it.
Zombomaniac 03-07-06, 10:37 PM	Link dont work.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-07-06, 10:52 PM	look in my spoiler under Cerberus. It's the thing Wilds originally posted.
jagggar 03-07-06, 11:02 PM	Worked for me. Exoitic Weapons Cost Dmg (S) Dmg (M) Critical RangeIncrement Weight Type Light Melee Weapons KUP Special 75gp 1d4 1d6 x2 --- 2 lb Piercing and slashing KUP Special: The KUP Special looks like a punching dagger with three large claws. The weapon retains the punching dagger's deadly force, and the extra 'claws' are useful for disarming opponents. Wielders proficent with the KUP Special gain a +4 circumstance bonus when making disarm attempts with it. Basicly took the panther claw and lowered the critical to increase the damage by one step. EDIT: And it needs a better name.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-08-06, 03:23 PM	SWEET! thank you so much. edited char sheet... how bout we name them: Claws of The Wolf or Wolf Paws plain and simple, yet satisfying
Wilds 03-08-06, 03:56 PM	my character sheet is almost done, just need to figure out items Are Wilding claps approved for this round?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-08-06, 04:08 PM	they ARE as far as i know, but they're out of price range.
Wilds 03-08-06, 07:10 PM	what?! they cant be more than 5k each!
Wilds 03-08-06, 07:22 PM	Just checked OA, Wilding Clasps are 4k each and they only affect amulet(and similar things) and vests (and similiar things)
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-08-06, 08:20 PM	i thought it allowed you to keep armor bonus while in hybrid form or whatever?
Wilds 03-08-06, 08:38 PM	Wilding Clasp from OA would allow your armor to function still Wild Armor enchancement only affects wildshape unless you are a Black Blood Hunter, liek what im trying to get approved.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-08-06, 09:03 PM	i thought it allowed you to keep armor bonus while in hybrid form or whatever? what is it im thinkin of? cuz thats what i want on my armor
Moriok_Mephidross 03-08-06, 09:07 PM	You were thinking of a +3 armor enhancement that lets your armor change form with you. Which, at a total of 16k before the armor itself, is going to cost more than you can spend on one item.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-08-06, 09:17 PM	You were thinking of a +3 armor enhancement that lets your armor change form with you. Which, at a total of 16k before the armor itself, is going to cost more than you can spend on one item. o ok, ill work on it then.
Wilds 03-08-06, 09:19 PM	Wild: The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen. Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, baleful polymorph; Price +3 bonus. Unfortunatly it doesnt work on werewolf shape change. And it is more expensive....grrr.....going to ahve to get wilding clasps then if they are approved
Moriok_Mephidross 03-08-06, 09:20 PM	Would a wilding clasp work on armor? Doesn't it seem overpowered to have something that makes a really expensive enhancement useless because an item that costs a lot less can be used instead?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-08-06, 09:28 PM	Wild: The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen. Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, baleful polymorph; Price +3 bonus. Unfortunatly it doesnt work on werewolf shape change. And it is more expensive....grrr.....going to ahve to get wilding clasps then if they are approved can we find something to work on it?
Wilds 03-08-06, 09:39 PM	Would a wilding clasp work on armor? Doesn't it seem overpowered to have something that makes a really expensive enhancement useless because an item that costs a lot less can be used instead? I think that it should work on armor. There is no reason it shouldnt. Vest and armor go in the same place. I actually like the Wild Enhancment, becasue with the Clasp the armor is visible that something is not right with that wolf. The Wild Enhancement maeks teh armor dissapear into the creautre but still gives its AC bonuses and such But yes clasp does look more appealing than the enhancement. I beleive that teh claps should work for armor. So 2 clapss is 8k total, so that leaves 11k for an armor and an amulet.
Moriok_Mephidross 03-08-06, 09:43 PM	A vest goes in the same place, but what would a clasp do for armor? It would just kind of sit on the armor and has no function. If your armor is held on by a clasp, it isn't very good armor. I would say that it most likely wouldn't work. If it isn't listed under stuff that stays when clasped, then it doesnt work with it. So if the clasp say specifically "vests, cloaks, and necklaces" then it does nothing for armor.
Wilds 03-08-06, 09:54 PM	it just says "vest(or similair item)" that is kind of confusing to me Its not held on by the clasp, the clasp attaches to the item.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-08-06, 10:43 PM	it just says "vest(or similair item)" that is kind of confusing to me Its not held on by the clasp, the clasp attaches to the item. yeah it just attaches,...
jagggar 03-08-06, 11:22 PM	I'd say similiar item means an item that takes up the same slot. If you could use it on armor, it would be bro-ken. Oh darn. We can't use wild armor. Whatever shall we do? (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8641290&postcount=152)
redhase 03-08-06, 11:45 PM	combine the two, by using wizards to do so. would cost gold to do this ,but your character would be able to use the magical item and when upon command word the clasp would disappear with the wild armor is acatived. when you say the deactavation word the clasp comes back and the wild aromr will disappear into the clasp. try that. let me explain some more, like an arrow of slaying, some are made with the far shot ability magicaly put into the arrow. we all konw how this is done, an wizard will have a archer do the shot far shot ability and magical trap the ability as being done. so do the same with wild armor put in the clasp when acitaveted and have the clasp disappears when the wild armor is activated. when deactivated the clasp reappears. can be done, think of the arrows abilitiesand how a arrow can have the far shot ability multipled many times.
Wilds 03-09-06, 12:12 AM	Wild enhancement unless the DMs change it doesnt work
jagggar 03-09-06, 12:25 AM	Let me put it has plainly as I think I can. Wild armor does nothing for us. It works with Wild Shape, which we don't have. Shapeshifting armor from OA functions the same as wild armor, except that instead of working with Wild Shape (which we don't have), it works with Alternate Form (which we do have). Problem solved. (At least, once we get enough money, it will be.)
Wilds 03-09-06, 12:37 AM	If the prestige class in the approval thread gets in then ill be fine once i get enough money
Zombomaniac 03-09-06, 08:28 AM	Let me put it has plainly as I think I can. Wild armor does nothing for us. It works with Wild Shape, which we don't have. Shapeshifting armor from OA functions the same as wild armor, except that instead of working with Wild Shape (which we don't have), it works with Alternate Form (which we do have). Problem solved. (At least, once we get enough money, it will be.) How much would this cost?
Wilds 03-09-06, 10:51 AM	Shapeshifting armor has a cost of +1 enhancement. Which means that the item has to be a +1 to start with, so then add +1, the cost being a +2 item coming out to be item cost + 4k. So around 4,500 gold for the armor plus any further additions.
jagggar 03-09-06, 10:52 AM	Costs the same as wild armor, +3. (Which turns into 16,000gp for +1 shapeshifting armor plus the cost of the armor, of course.} Dropped by the bookstore to look at the PrC. From what I could tell, a normal werewolf would have to take Improved Natural Attack (Bite) before taking Vile Natural Attack before getting into the PrC. So I'm kinda thinking there needs to be a little more than just that as a prerequsite. Perhaps add both Improved Natural Attack (Bite) and Improved Natural Attack (Claw) to the prereqs. That sound okay to you?
Wilds 03-09-06, 11:19 AM	O, arg.. I didnt see that part of the Vile Natural Attack feat. Could we just go with the Improved Natural Attack (bite)? Ill go with the second imp nat attack if its the only way to get the class approved. But that would push backs its first possible use by a werewolf to 13th level.
jagggar 03-09-06, 12:20 PM	It looks like the fastest way into the class normally is by being a large animal with 4 HD or less and taking a full BAB class for your next two levels. That lets you in at your 7th HD, a 9th or 10th ECL. So I'm sitting here, trying to decide if it would be better to rid the class of its size-ism or not, and then in what manner (make it harder for the larger, or make it easier for the smaller?). Hmm, sudden question. You turned the vile damage into silver damage. Is the entire attack considered silver damage, or just the bonus damage? Assuming just the bonus damage, do creatures who don't take any more or less silver damage take the bonus damage?
Wilds 03-09-06, 01:16 PM	Just the bonus damage is silver, the rest is normal your second question confuses me
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 03:45 PM	so...a werecreature that does SILVER damage? nice concept actually...
Wilds 03-09-06, 03:53 PM	it seemed strange enough that it would make sense. I mean that way there would be something to cull ridiculously large packs of werewolves. Not to mention it would also makes things interesting with self inflcited wounds. Would they scar? It would be funny to see if I could do that. Have my char scar himself with patterns after he gets far enough in the class.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 04:02 PM	it seemed strange enough that it would make sense. I mean that way there would be something to cull ridiculously large packs of werewolves. Not to mention it would also makes things interesting with self inflcited wounds. Would they scar? It would be funny to see if I could do that. Have my char scar himself with patterns after he gets far enough in the class. I was actually thinking the same thing. Wilds, man, we must be twins, lol
Eglentyne 03-09-06, 04:50 PM	[QUOTE=Wilds]Shapeshifting armor has a cost of +1 enhancement. Which means that the item has to be a +1 to start with, so then add +1, the cost being a +2 item coming out to be item cost + 4k. So around 4,500 gold for the armor plus any further I think it looks good, I would like to see how much +2 or +3 costs, too much for or characters?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 04:56 PM	[QUOTE=Wilds]Shapeshifting armor has a cost of +1 enhancement. Which means that the item has to be a +1 to start with, so then add +1, the cost being a +2 item coming out to be item cost + 4k. So around 4,500 gold for the armor plus any further I think it looks good, I would like to see how much +2 or +3 costs, too much for or characters? way too much for us now
Moriok_Mephidross 03-09-06, 04:56 PM	[QUOTE=Wilds]Shapeshifting armor has a cost of +1 enhancement. Which means that the item has to be a +1 to start with, so then add +1, the cost being a +2 item coming out to be item cost + 4k. So around 4,500 gold for the armor plus any further I think it looks good, I would like to see how much +2 or +3 costs, too much for or characters? If ya look at what Jagggar said, you'd realize Wild's post wasn't right. Shapeshifting armor has a +3 enhancement bonus equivalent. Since it needs a +1 enhancement bonus before any ability can be added to an armor. Its a total of +4, making it cost 16,000gp before adding the cost of the armor itself. In other words, nobody can aford it for the level 7 game.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 05:00 PM	Thasis, i posted on the site. check it out man
jagggar 03-09-06, 05:15 PM	I guess what I mean is if you attack something without DR/silver, are you going to do the extra damage against it or not? We just can't afford it yet. . . . *neutral grin*
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 05:44 PM	I guess what I mean is if you attack something without DR/silver, are you going to do the extra damage against it or not? We just can't afford it yet. . . . *neutral grin* hmmm.....
Wilds 03-09-06, 05:51 PM	I guess what I mean is if you attack something without DR/silver, are you going to do the extra damage against it or not? We just can't afford it yet. . . . *neutral grin* yes it is just normal bonus damage as what would be given by the flaming enhancement or some other effect a creature with out DR/Silver would still take the bonus damage IT is a +3?! crap....well thennnnnn....grrrrr so a wilding clasp an amulet and armor is screwed :( sad, i had my char made with armor, its AC was sooo niceeeeeeee. Time to rework and figure out how this is going to work..
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 05:55 PM	yes it is just normal bonus damage as what would be given by the flaming enhancement or some other effect a creature with out DR/Silver would still take the bonus damage IT is a +3?! crap....well thennnnnn....grrrrr so a wilding clasp an amulet and armor is screwed :( sad, i had my char made with armor, its AC was sooo niceeeeeeee. Time to rework and figure out how this is going to work.. gahhhh we're screwed
Wilds 03-09-06, 06:06 PM	for armor yes and most items would bracers and headbands and stuff be assimilated into the new form? or would they just change size?
jagggar 03-09-06, 06:09 PM	One thing we could do is pool our earnings and buy shapeshifting armor whenever it's affordable until all in the group who wants it has some. The individual would have to buy the armor his or herself, but we'd go for the extra so much cost as a group. I'm just not quite sure what to do with all my extra money until then.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 06:10 PM	One thing we could do is pool our earnings and buy shapeshifting armor whenever it's affordable until all in the group who wants it has some. The individual would have to buy the armor his or herself, but we'd go for the extra so much cost as a group. I'm just not quite sure what to do with all my extra money until then. perfect idea
Wilds 03-09-06, 06:12 PM	I like it for onw im thinking fo either a Amulet of Natural Attck (or what ever it is called, gives +1 to natural and unarmed attacks and damage) or an Amulet of Con booster and a Wilding clasp
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 06:15 PM	I like it for onw im thinking fo either a Amulet of Natural Attck (or what ever it is called, gives +1 to natural and unarmed attacks and damage) or an Amulet of Con booster and a Wilding clasp yeah....sounds good
Wilds 03-09-06, 06:22 PM	i guess, the lack of being able to deck out the character makes for a somewhat less durable one. But makes RP and combat a heck of a lot more interesting
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 06:24 PM	damn double post.
jagggar 03-09-06, 06:27 PM	Because I'm not sure a wilding clasp would work with our ability, I present: Shapeshifter's Clasp: Appearing as a 3-inch long silver chain :P , this item only works when attached to an amulet (or other item occupying the slot) or vest (or other item occupying the slot). The clasp prevents its attached item from falling off the wearer's new form when using the alternate form or change shape supernatural abilities, allowing the item to be used in the new form. For example, an werewolf with a shapeshifter's clasp attached to her amulet of mighty fists could change to wolf form (which normally doesn't use equipment) and have the amulet remain it its normal form, fully functional.. Note that some forms may be harmful to certain items (such as a fire elemental form when wearing a necklace of missles. Caster Level: 5th; Prerequisites: Craft Wonderous Item, polymorph or creator must have the alternate form or change shape ability; Market Price: 4,000 gp; Weight: --.
Wilds 03-09-06, 06:28 PM	looks good. and we came to the conclusion that it vest does not extend to armor correct?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 06:30 PM	i guess, the lack of being able to deck out the character makes for a somewhat less durable one. But makes RP and combat a heck of a lot more interesting yeah, more of the "up-and-coming" adventurer feel
jagggar 03-09-06, 06:42 PM	That's the strangest double post I've ever seen. . . Correct, Vest does not equal Armor. "One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso" I'm kinda thinking of a shapeshifting pack saddle based on the handy harversack. Good idea, bad idea? Possibly a harness which allows you to wear a belt, similar to the clasp also.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 07:28 PM	All i want is something so i can keep my armor and stuff when i shapeshift and all that
Wilds 03-09-06, 07:57 PM	We cant get access to that stuff until we get a lot of gold. Like a ridiculous amount. but i could make a vest that gives my character armor or soemthing like that? as long as it is approved?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 07:59 PM	We cant get access to that stuff until we get a lot of gold. Like a ridiculous amount. but i could make a vest that gives my character armor or soemthing like that? as long as it is approved? might be cool
Zombomaniac 03-09-06, 08:20 PM	On the we-need-money issue we are a guild am I right? That means we get gold from the GMs. This will help with that kind of thing. Also once we go IC we will want to ally with the Forest Dwellers Foundation since we share the same climate and all. On the items-space issue I have a idea about that. There are Rings that provide DR, Energy Resistance, bonuses to AC, and everything that everything else does. Thats how items work. A properly inchanted ring will give you the same AC bonus as armor, that same stat increasement as a bracer or amulet or headband and whats even better is we can wear rings. It's just a matter of enchating it and last time I checked you can place multiple enchantments on the same item. A armor can be Acid Resistancetant, Animated, have Etherrealness, and be Glamered at the same time. A weapon can be Elf Bane, Defending, Flaming, Frosted, Holy, and Keen all at the same time too. So why couldn't a ring give us an addition to Int just like a Headband of Int, an addision to AC just like Bracers of Armor, and a increased attack with natural or unarmed attacks just like an Amulet of Mighty Fists all at the same time? Last time I checked it can give us all that at the same time. We will just have to combine all the Requirements to Craft and the prices for the effects. Problem solved. but i could make a vest that gives my character armor or soemthing like that? as long as it is approved? If you can make a Vest that does the same thing as Armor you can make a Ring that does tha same thing as Armor. :) -Zombie
Eglentyne 03-09-06, 08:33 PM	Zombomaniac Also once we go IC we will want to ally with the Forest Dwellers Foundation since we share the same climate and all. quen elda Quenya ar n nur'r
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 08:35 PM	Z, i like the way you think...
Moriok_Mephidross 03-09-06, 08:43 PM	How exactly are you going to add an armor enhancement to a ring? The armor enhancement makes armor stronger. So the only way that would have an effect is if you were blocking with your finger, and that probably wouldn't turn out too well. Since you can't add an enhancement bonus to a ring, you can't add an armor special quality, because it isn't armor, and would need a +1 enhancement anyway. Why not just get rings of Mage Armor, make an item using mage armor as the thing, make it permanent. 1 x 1 x 2000gp, no multiplication because its measured in hours. 2000gp for a +4 AC bonus.
jagggar 03-09-06, 08:48 PM	Actually, we dropped the free hand-out. Too hard to decide who gets what when. I'll be double checking prices, just to warn you. Those things are gunna cost a pretty penny. quen elda Quenya ar n nur'r And I have no idea what you just said.
Eglentyne 03-09-06, 08:57 PM	jagggar Actually, we dropped the free hand-out. Too hard to decide who gets what when. I'll be double checking prices, just to warn you. Those things are gunna cost a pretty penny. And I have no idea what you just said. that is the elven Quenya language, what were speaking at the forrest guild. quen elda Quenya ar n nur'r what said: basicly; to be freinds it would help to speak the eleven Quenya language. we speak common but use the Quenya language mostly my character does.
Zombomaniac 03-09-06, 08:59 PM	How exactly are you going to add an armor enhancement to a ring? The armor enhancement makes armor stronger. So the only way that would have an effect is if you were blocking with your finger, and that probably wouldn't turn out too well. Since you can't add an enhancement bonus to a ring, you can't add an armor special quality, because it isn't armor, and would need a +1 enhancement anyway. Why not just get rings of Mage Armor, make an item using mage armor as the thing, make it permanent. 1 x 1 x 2000gp, no multiplication because its measured in hours. 2000gp for a +4 AC bonus. I dont mean a Ring that has the Fortification enchantment or anything I mean a addition to AC and such. Like a ring that gives you a +4 bonus to AC the same way Bracers of Armor +4 do. Basicly what I mean is taking the effects of a Head Band of Int, a Bracers of Armor, and an Amulet of Mighty Fists and rolling them all together into a Ring.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 09:08 PM	How hard was that to understand? lol
Zombomaniac 03-09-06, 09:14 PM	Actually, we dropped the free hand-out. Too hard to decide who gets what when. Darn. That really sucks..... I'll be double checking prices, just to warn you. Those things are gunna cost a pretty penny. I do believe that is an approvel, Ladies and Gentlemen. :) Send out the messages: Rings are the New Armor. :cool:
jagggar 03-09-06, 09:27 PM	I am not, however, approving the ring of mage armor idea. If that were so, then bracers of armor +4 should only cost 2,000 gp. Adding new abilities to items is in the DMG, so can be considered core.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-09-06, 10:24 PM	whoa. im confused...
jagggar 03-09-06, 10:54 PM	Zombo's idea to help with our lack of magic item slots is to combine them all into a few items we can use. While this can help, items like this cost more than they would normally cost if you bought them seperately.
Wilds 03-09-06, 11:26 PM	Do rings not meld into the new form?! SWEET I thought about combining stuff, i thought it would be too expansive though. Guess im wrong. They will cost a pretty penny though
jagggar 03-09-06, 11:38 PM	Melding isn't our problem. Falling off is. Don't wear the rings on your fingers, wear them in your ears. Now is probably a good time to remind everyone you can't start with anything costing more than 11,500gp. (Otherwise the shapeshifting armor would be less of a problem.)
Wilds 03-10-06, 12:15 AM	Ok but is putting them in your ears approved? cause if it is, im making some kick arse rings
jagggar 03-10-06, 12:35 AM	The idea came from Savage Species originally to have a wolf wear rings its ears. Yes, it be approved.
Wilds 03-10-06, 12:36 AM	SHWING!!!!!!!!! take to make me some rings
Wilds 03-11-06, 03:17 PM	Items for Lycans: Vest - Require Wilding Clasps 4k Amulet - Require Wilding Clasps 4k Rings - Note have to be Ear Rings What needs to be worked out: Ways to carry extra gold/items - preferably a Bag of Holding or something similiar to it - NOTE: either the item disspears when not in human form. Or a new item must be made to allow for said item to not disspear. Possibly Backpack in human form, side packs in animal and back/leg packs for hybrid depending upon what were-*blank* said character is. Ways to enchant natural weapons for melee characters Kensai - will work by RAW. Note RP requires and normal requirements. How to make it possible for casters to cast in hybrid form. NOTE: Black Blood Hunter allows for this, but has requires that would be unacceptable to some casters. Possible effects of potential self scarification upon entrance into modified Black Blood Hunter. Possible effects are some similiar to those from the Barbarin class features in Dragon issue #340 Prestige Classes: Kensai - allows for enchantment and enhancement of natural weapons Complete Warrior Black Blood Hunter (modified) - allows for spells casting in hybrid form. Gives enhanced DR and some weapon modifications. Players Guide to Fauren Warshaper - enhances weapons, healing, immunites, reach and ability scores. Probably most effective for a melee lycan character. Complete Warrior Beast Master - 4 animal companions, some overlap with lycan abilites Complete Adventurer Blood hound - excellent for stalker/tracker type character Complete Adventurer
jagggar 03-11-06, 08:02 PM	Surrogate Spellcasting from Savage Species. All you casters need is Wis 13 as you've got the non-humanoid form down. What if we based a new PrC on the Black Blood Hunter? Something like "Silvered Hunter" or something. Some protect their pack, others hunt down types of lycans who have a different animal form, or maybe afflicted lycans taking revenge on their natural cousins. Have the prerequisite feat give the lycan a silver typed attack no more than 3/day. Instead of +1d4 vile damage, all natural attacks become silver and instead of +1d6 vile, natural attacks become silver and magic. Should we do that instead or in addition to the Black Blood Hunter?
Zombomaniac 03-11-06, 09:25 PM	Surrogate Spellcasting from Savage Species. All you casters need is Wis 13 as you've got the non-humanoid form down. What if we based a new PrC on the Black Blood Hunter? Something like "Silvered Hunter" or something. Some protect their pack, others hunt down types of lycans who have a different animal form, or maybe afflicted lycans taking revenge on their natural cousins. Have the prerequisite feat give the lycan a silver typed attack no more than 3/day. Instead of +1d4 vile damage, all natural attacks become silver and instead of +1d6 vile, natural attacks become silver and magic. Should we do that instead or in addition to the Black Blood Hunter? Black Blood Hunter is made for Evil Lycans only pretty much, so i think a good or all alignments counterpart would be great.
Wilds 03-12-06, 01:10 AM	I like the idea of a "Silvered Hunter" instead of the Black Blood would allow for a more open idea. And less of the diety specific stuff. Maybe have it open to any alignment? I can work on a rough idea, im on spring break so i have some time. I get the changed damage to silver and then silver damage. But is no addition damage a good thing? What do you mean by a feat that gives the lycan silver natural weapon 3/day? Like make a new one? Would being open to only Natural Lycanthropes make sense?
Zombomaniac 03-12-06, 04:16 AM	What do you mean by a feat that gives the lycan silver natural weapon 3/day? Like make a new one? Class feature not feat from what I can tell. Would being open to only Natural Lycanthropes make sense? Make since or we could have varying powers based on that. "If Natural class feature does this...If Afflicted class feature does this instead...." I did that kinda thing in the Transended (spelled that wrong) Minds PrCs I made.
Wilds 03-12-06, 10:45 AM	Hmmm how about If Natural lycanthrope: natural weapons become silver faster and magic silver faster? If Afflicted lycanthrope: the lycans DR increases faster? Ok besides that, just keep the general set up and idea from Black Blood Hunter, but modified for this new PrC?
Wilds 03-12-06, 12:35 PM	Im working on a Silver Hunter Prestige Class heres the odity: there are 2 different paths that can be followed non-caster: more melee oriented caster: more spells and such
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-12-06, 02:04 PM	I'm considering multi-classing once im in higher levels...might come in handy
Wilds 03-12-06, 02:14 PM	Ill have the prestige class posted by the end of the day hopefully.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-12-06, 02:20 PM	sweet im gonna look into them ***EDIT*** Thasis, post on my site...
Wilds 03-12-06, 02:46 PM	Silvered Hunter and Silvered Caster: Rough Drafts: Fluff + reqs The Hunter laughs, “I will do nothing.” Just then the pinned lycan’s throat erupts in blood. It does heal but rather stays open, smoking. “You could have done that a little cleaner” A new lycan comes out of the shadows, its jaw covered in blood, yet shining silver. “That one was weak, now come we have to get back to the pack and report to the alpha.” “Yes we must go” With that the two Hunters leave the village. The next day all that is found is several murdered villagers and some man who tried to get away. But was ran down. Silver Hunters are the protectors and enforcers of lycanthrope packs. They protect the pack from other creatures and other lycan packs and individuals. Natural Hunters are more prone towards hunting down rogue lycans and those who seek to destroy their pack. Afflicted Hunters are more prone towards defending their pack and patrolling the local area. Their structure is that of a pack. The strongest Hunters are the leaders. But casters among the hunters are treated with respect no matter their rank. When a Hunter enters the class they must make a decision. The first parting category for them is whether or not they are Natural or Afflicted. The second as to whether or not they cast spells. Requirements: Race: Lycanthrope Skills: Control Shape 6 (Afflicted Only), Jump 6, Knowledge (nature) 4, Survival 6 Feats: Hunter: Power Attack, Improved Natural Attack Caster: Improved Natural Attack, Eschew Materials Hitdice: d8 Silvered Hunter: Hunter Cl Bab Fort Ref Will 1 +1 +2 +2 +0 2 +2 +3 +3 +0 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 10+10 +7 +7 +3 Hunter class feature Class Level Special 1 Wild items, Greater Curse of Lycanthropy 2 Faster Change, Wild Empathy 3 Improved Hybrid form 4 Silvered Attack 5 Improved DR (+5/Silver) 6 Fast Healing 1 7 Quick Change 8 Improved Silvered Attack 9 Improved DR (magic and silver) 10 Fast Healing 2 Silvered Caster Silvered Caster Class Level Bab Fort Save Ref Save Will Save 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Caster class features C L Special Spells per Day/Spells Known 1 Luna’s Boon +1 level existing spell casting class 2 Wild Empathy +1 level existing spell casting class 3 Faster Change +1 level existing spell casting class 4 Luna’s Apprentice +1 level existing spell casting class 5 Improved DR (+5/Silver) +1 level existing spell casting class 6 Luna’s Follower +1 level existing spell casting class 7 Fast Healing 1 +1 level existing spell casting class 8 Quick Change +1 level existing spell casting class 9 Improved DR (magic and silver) +1 level existing spell casting class 10 Luna’s Chosen +1 level existing spell casting class Class Features: Class Features: Wilds Items: The lycanthrope can be affected by items with the Wild enhancement when in alternate forms and similar affects. Greater Curse of Lycanthropy: The Fortitude save required to avoid lycanthropy from the Silvered Hunter’s bite attack increases by the Silvered Hunter’s level in this class. Wild Empathy: functions as the class features of druid. Except as follows: Silvered Hunter levels + d20. Add an additional 8 when dealing with animals or dire animals of the same form as the lycan’s animal. Fast Change: The lycan can now change form with a Move Action instead of a Standard Action Improved Hybrid Form: The Silvered Hunter can now use its animal form’s special attacks in hybrid form Silvered Attack: 4th level: The Silvered Hunters natural attacks are now considered Silver weapons for purpose of damage reduction 8th level: The Silvered Hunters natural attacks are now considered Magic Silver weapons for purpose of damage reduction Improved DR: 5th level: The Silvered Hunter’s DR increases by +5, so Afflicted have DR 10/Silver, Natural have DR 15/Silver 9th level: The Silvered Hunter’s DR becomes DR x/Magic and Silver Fast Healing: The Silvered Hunter gains Fast Healing x as listed on the chart. Quick Change: The Silvered Hunter can now change form as a free action. Luna’s Boon: Any items that enhance the Silvered Caster’s casting abilities do not meld into the Caster’s other forms if the Caster does not will it. Examples are, Wis,Int,Cha boosting items, etc. Luna’s Apprentice: While in humanoid form the lycanthrope shows no affects of its condition, no excessive hair growth, no mood change, no physical change. This blessing allows the Silvered Caster to study among the humanoid races with out causing fear or anxiety. Luna’s Follower: When under the Full Moon the Silvered Caster may call upon Luna to grant their spells more strength. A standard action to activate, normally a howl to the moon. Lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Silvered Caster’s level + their spell casting dependent ability. As long as the ability is in effect the Caster’s spells are treated as having a spell caster level of 2 higher than the characters spell casting level. Once during the effect the Caster may add the Maximized feat to a single spell. This does not increase the level of the spell or time needed to cast. This ability can be actived once per night during the full moon. Luna’s Chosen: At night during the full moon the caster level of the Silvered Caster increases by +2. This does not supersede Luna’s Follower. Luna’s follower can be activated at the same time as Luna’s Chosen, thus making the casting level a total of +4 and the maximized ability once per night. I know something needs to be changed, just not to sure what. Im open to any and all critismes.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-12-06, 03:08 PM	once i get a few more wilderness rogue levels, im multi-classing to Silvered Hunter
Wilds 03-12-06, 05:06 PM	notice anyhting wrong with it? overpowered at all? I want to get all the hairs out before I post it in the approval thread
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-12-06, 05:09 PM	i think it should be good, give it a shot and let jaggar check it out
Zombomaniac 03-12-06, 06:47 PM	Ok I looked through you classes and I basicly saw somethings that make no sence, some things that dont seem to belong and somethings that are pretty dang good. A lot of you outline wasn't very well worded or framed to I did this. Silvered Hunter and Silvered Caster RP Matiral The Hunter laughs, “I will do nothing.” Just then the pinned Lycan’s throat erupts in blood. It does not heal but rather stays open, smoking. “You could have done that a little cleaner” A new Lycan comes out of the shadows, its jaw covered in blood, yet shining silver. “That one was weak, now come we have to get back to the pack and report to the Alpha.” “Yes we must go” With that the two Hunters leave the village. The next day all that was found were several murdered villagers and a man who tried to get away, but was run down. --------------------------------------------------------------------------Silver Hunters are the protectors and enforcers of Lycanthrope packs. They protect the pack from other creatures and other Lycan packs and individuals. Natural Lycan Hunters are more prone towards hunting down rogue Lycans and those who seek to destroy their pack. Afflicted Lycan Hunters are more prone towards defending their pack and patrolling the local area. They use a pack structure with the strongest Hunters as the leaders. Casters among the Hunters are treated with respect no matter their rank. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Silvered Hunter Requirements: Race: Lycanthrope Skills: Control Shape 6 (Afflicted Only), Jump 6, Knowledge (nature) 4, Survival 6 Feats: Power Attack, Improved Natural Attack Table: The Silvered Hunter Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Wild items, Greater Curse of Lycanthropy 2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Quick Change, Wild Empathy 3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Spirit of the Beast 4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Silvered Attack 5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Improved DR (+5/Silver), Fast Healing 6th +6 +5 +5 +2 7th +7 +5 +5 +2 Free Change 8th +8 +6 +6 +2 9th +9 +6 +6 +3 Improved DR (Silver and Magic) 10th +10 +7 +7 +3 Class Features All of the following are class features of the trickster. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: ?? Wilds Items: Items with the Wild enhancement can affect the Lycanthrope when in alternate forms and similar affects. Greater Curse of Lycanthropy: The Fortitude save required for avoiding Lycanthropy from the Silvered Hunter’s bite attack increases by the Silvered Hunter’s level in this PrC. Quick Change: A Silvered Hunter of 2nd Level gains the Quick Change Feat as a Bonus feat. He need not meet any requirements. Wild Empathy: functions as the class features of druid. Except as follows: Silvered Hunter levels + d20. Add an additional 8 when dealing with animals or dire animals of the same form as the Lycan’s animal. A Silvered Hunter of 2nd Level or higher can improve the attitude of animals or dire animals. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Silvered Hunter rolls 1d20 and adds his Silvered Hunter level and his Charisma modifier to determine the Wild Empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use Wild Empathy, the Silvered Hunter and the animal or Dire Animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. A Silvered Hunter can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check. Silvered Hunters get a +8 to their Wild Empathy check when deal with Animals or Dire Animals or the same species as their Animal Form. Spirit of the Beast: A Silvered Hunter of 3rd level gains the Spirit of the Beast Feat as a Bonus feat. He need not meet any requirements. Silvered Attack: The Natural Weapons of a Silvered Hunter of 4th level or higher are considered Silver weapons for purpose of damage reduction. At 8th level the Silvered Hunter’s Natural Attacks are also considered Magic Weapons for purpose of damage reduction. Improved DR: At 5th level the Silvered Hunter’s DR increases by +5, so Afflicted have DR 10/Silverand Natural have DR 15/Silver. At 9th level a Silvered Hunter gains DR /magic equal to their Silver DR. Fast Healing: The Silvered Hunter gains Fast Healing 1 at 5th level and Fast Healing 2 at 10th level. Free Change: A Silvered Hunter of 7th level or higher can change form as a free action. Silvered Caster Requirements: Race: Lycanthrope Skills: Control Shape 6 (Afflicted Only), Jump 6, Knowledge (nature) 4, Survival 6 Feats: Improved Natural Attack, Eschew Materials Spells: Must be able to cast 2nd Level Arcane or Divine Spells. Table: The Silvered Caster Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special Spells Per day/Spells Known 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Luna’s Boon +1 level existing spell casting class 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Wild Empathy +1 level existing spell casting class 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Quick Change +1 level existing spell casting class 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Luna’s Apprentice +1 level existing spell casting class 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Improved DR (+5/Silver) +1 level existing spell casting class 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Luna’s Follower +1 level existing spell casting class 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Fast Healing 1 +1 level existing spell casting class 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Free Change +1 level existing spell casting class 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Improved DR (Silver and Magic) +1 level existing spell casting class 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Luna’s Chosen +1 level existing spell casting class Class Features All of the following are class features of the trickster. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: ?? Luna’s Boon: Any items that enhance the Silvered Caster’s casting abilities do not meld into the Caster’s other forms if the Caster does not will it. Examples are, Wis,Int,Cha boosting items, etc. Wild Empathy: A Silvered Caster of 2nd Level or higher can improve the attitude of animals or dire animals. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Silvered Hunter rolls 1d20 and adds his Silvered Hunter level and his Charisma modifier to determine the Wild Empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use Wild Empathy, the Silvered Hunter and the animal or Dire Animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. A Silvered Caster can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check. Silvered Casters get a +8 to their Wild Empathy check when deal with Animals or Dire Animals or the same species as their Animal Form. Quick Change: A Silvered Caster of 2nd Level gains the Quick Change Feat as a Bonus feat. He need not meet any requirements. Luna’s Apprentice: While in humanoid form the lycanthrope shows no affects of its condition, no excessive hair growth, no mood change, no physical change. This blessing allows the Silvered Caster to study among the humanoid races with out causing fear or anxiety. Improved DR: At 5th level the Silvered Caster’s DR increases by +5, so Afflicted have DR 10/Silverand Natural have DR 15/Silver. At 9th level a Silvered Hunter gains DR /magic equal to their Silver DR. Luna’s Follower: When under the Full Moon the Silvered Caster may call upon Luna to grant their spells more strength. A standard action to activate, normally a howl to the moon. Lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Silvered Caster’s level + their spell casting dependent ability. As long as the ability is in effect the Caster’s spells are treated as having a spell caster level of 2 higher than the characters spell casting level. Once during the effect the Caster may add the Maximized feat to a single spell. This does not increase the level of the spell or time needed to cast. This ability can be actived once per night during the full moon. Fast Healing: The Silvered Caster gains Fast Healing 1 at 6th level. Free Change: A Silvered Caster of 7th level or higher can change form as a free action. Luna’s Chosen: At night during the full moon the caster level of the Silvered Caster increases by +2. This does not supersede Luna’s Follower. Luna’s follower can be activated at the same time as Luna’s Chosen, thus making the casting level a total of +4 and the maximized ability once per night.
Zombomaniac 03-12-06, 07:04 PM	There are some random different problems with the class. Silvered Hunter: Wild Items makes no sense. Greater Curse of Lycanthropy. Why? Hunters are Defenders and Enforcers not Curse Spreaders. :confused: Quick Change. You had it as Faster Change. Nice good choice there, but I chaged it to a Bonus feat instead to make it simpler. Wild Empathy. Useful. Keep it. Spirit of the Beast. You had it as Improved Hybrid Form, but if there is a feat that does it then you should likely use the feat. it makes things simpler. Silvered Attack. Nice. Good Job. :tiphat: Improved DR. Also good. Keep it. Fast Healing good, but I moved Fast Healing 1 to 5th level. Things like that normally go in level intervuls. Gained at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 - Gained at 3, 6, 9 - Gained at 5, 10. That kinda thing. Free Change. You had it as Quick Changed, but since I did the Bonus feat one I changed the name. Silver Caster: On the "Luna's *blank*" stuff. Who is Luna? Luna’s Boon. Very good for a Caster. Keep it. Wild Empathy. Why? This is a Caster. Likely a Wizard or Cleric. Wild Epathy is of no use to them. Quick Change. You had it as Faster Change. Nice good choice there, but I chaged it to a Bonus feat instead to make it simpler. Luna’s Apprentice. This serves a RP purpose only. As far as the rules are conserned this is useless. Improved DR. Good. Keep it. Luna’s Follower. Whatever. It has a great affect, but things dont happen once a month they happen day to day. Fast Healing. Keep it. Free Change. Not nessesary. Casters dont need to go into a Battle Form on the spot. Quick change is more then enough for them. Luna’s Chosen. Whatever. It has a great affect, but things dont happen once a month they happen day to day. We still have a lot of work ahead, but I will wait for you to respond before I give ideas to be added to the class.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-12-06, 07:08 PM	i cant wait to take the Silvered Hunter....*drools* More fun for the "Cleansing of the Weak"
Zombomaniac 03-12-06, 07:13 PM	i cant wait to take the Silvered Hunter....*drools* More fun for the "Cleansing of the Weak" Well you have to wait till we get the bugs out and get the power up.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-12-06, 07:16 PM	yes i know, i just think its a sick class....i can imagine the horrors it will cause among mortal and lycans alike....
Wilds 03-12-06, 07:39 PM	ya Zombo I had a total lack of ideas for the Caster. Luna is a name for the moon, I could think of a moon goddess so I just picked a generic name. If you have better ideas for the Caster or Hunter go with it. I was just trying to get out a general idea so that we could modify it and make it better. Wild Items allows the items like the Wild enhancement to work on the lycan. Right now it doesnt work, but that ability lets it work. ok stupid question but i have tryed and cant find it, what command makes the code box? when i tryed it before it just shrunk it to one line tall. so we need to find better abiliteis for the caster. and change some of the stuff around.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-12-06, 08:59 PM	Once we get everything set up, we should make an NPC....
jagggar 03-12-06, 09:43 PM	No, I was talking about creating a feat. Something like: Silver Infused [General] Prerequisites: DR ##/silver, Con 13, natural weapons. Benefit: Once per day, you may treat your natural weapons as silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction for a number of rounds equal to your constitution modifier. Activating this ability is a free action. Don't know if it's particualrly balanced or anything. But I was originally thinking something like that could be a prereq. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Edit: (haven't loked at Silver Hunter yet) On Silver Caster. . . You're missing a very key ability for the Silver Caster: Casting while in hybrid and animal form. I'd say you should give the Silver Caster the ability to designate a number of focuses which can be used while in any form. I don't know if you mean for this to be covered by Luna's Boon. Specifically on Luna's Boon: Items don't meld into lycanthropes!!! You might need to get more specific when it comes to what itmes enhance spellcasting ability.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-12-06, 09:50 PM	might be good...
Wilds 03-13-06, 01:30 AM	No, I was talking about creating a feat. Something like: Silver Infused [General] Prerequisites: DR ##/silver, Con 13, natural weapons. Benefit: Once per day, you may treat your natural weapons as silver for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction for a number of rounds equal to your constitution modifier. Activating this ability is a free action. Don't know if it's particualrly balanced or anything. But I was originally thinking something like that could be a prereq. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Edit: (haven't loked at Silver Hunter yet) On Silver Caster. . . You're missing a very key ability for the Silver Caster: Casting while in hybrid and animal form. I'd say you should give the Silver Caster the ability to designate a number of focuses which can be used while in any form. I don't know if you mean for this to be covered by Luna's Boon. Specifically on Luna's Boon: Items don't meld into lycanthropes!!! You might need to get more specific when it comes to what itmes enhance spellcasting ability. ok Luna's Boon: Items that directly enhance the Casters spellcasting ability are functional when the Caster is in hybrid and animal form. In addition the Caster can cast spells in hybrid and animal form as though under the effect of Natural Spell. That feat makes sense. So add that to the reqs or replace one of the other feats?
Wilds 03-13-06, 02:06 AM	Attempt to modify Silvered Caster Table: The Silvered Caster Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special Spells Per day/Spells Known 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Gift of the Blood +1 level existing spell casting class 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Wild Empathy +1 level existing spell casting class 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Quick Change +1 level existing spell casting class 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Howl of the Pack +1 level existing spell casting class 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Improved DR (+5/Silver) +1 level existing spell casting class 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Howl of the Night +1 level existing spell casting class 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Fast Healing 1 +1 level existing spell casting class 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Bonus Feat +1 level existing spell casting class 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Improved DR (Silver and Magic) +1 level existing spell casting class 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Howl of the Moon +1 level existing spell casting class Class Features All of the following are class features of the trickster. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Silvered Caster gains no new weapons profiencys or armor/shield profiencys. Gift of the Blood: Items that directly enhance a Caster's spell casting ability are still in effect when the Caster enters hybrid and animal form. In addition the Caster may cast spells while in hybrid/animal form as though under the effect of Natural Spell Wild Empathy: A Silvered Caster of 2nd Level or higher can improve the attitude of animals or dire animals. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Silvered Hunter rolls 1d20 and adds his Silvered Hunter level and his Charisma modifier to determine the Wild Empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use Wild Empathy, the Silvered Hunter and the animal or Dire Animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. A Silvered Caster can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check. Silvered Casters get a +8 to their Wild Empathy check when deal with Animals or Dire Animals or the same species as their Animal Form. Quick Change: A Silvered Caster of 2nd Level gains the Quick Change Feat as a Bonus feat. He need not meet any requirements. Howl of the Pack: For a number of times per day equal to the Casters level in this class + the Casters primary spell stat. The Caster may emit a howl when a spell is cast. This replaces any verbal components. The spell that is cast affects all members of the Caster's pack in the immediate area to a maximum of one pack member per class level. Range of 5 feet per Caster class level centered on the Caster Improved DR: At 5th level the Silvered Caster’s DR increases by +5, so Afflicted have DR 10/Silverand Natural have DR 15/Silver. At 9th level a Silvered Hunter gains DR /magic equal to their Silver DR. Howl of the Night: As a standard action the Caster emits an errory howl. The area around the Casters grows darker and the Caster's pack members become stronger. Effect: the area around the Caster to a range of 10 feet per Caster class level grows darker, to a dim twilight at most. One pack member per class level get +1 to attack and damage while within the range of the Howl. The Howl lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Casters class level + primary spell casting stat. Fast Healing: The Silvered Caster gains Fast Healing 1 at 6th level. Bonus Feat Howl of the Moon: 3/day the Caster may emit a howl to the Moon, whether the moon is visible or not, all creatures with in 30 ft briefly glimpse the moon. The next spell that the Caster casts is affected by the Maximze metamagic feat. Activating this ability is a move action. I dont honestly know what to do with Wild Empathy. Makes sense to me, but does seem irrelevant for use other than some RP and maybe a few times in combat
Zombomaniac 03-13-06, 05:20 AM	That looks a lot better Wilds. :) Howl of the Pack and Howl of the Night need a little rewording, but the effects are great. :cool: On the class Requirements why Jump 6? it looks like you just throw that in to make the class harder to get into. On the note of getting into the class. From what I can tell, to get into the Silvered Hunter PrC you would have to be atleast 9th level, 6th if you are Human and choose your feats right. For the Silvered Caster it would be 8th level earliest. This is just to give you a idea of the power level peaople are at when they enter. One thing we might also want to do after these two are done is create one for the Psionics, but lets focus on these for now. -Zombie
Wilds 03-13-06, 01:00 PM	The Jump 6 ranks is from Black Blood Hunter, which was used as a template. Zombo do yuo think we should take it out or replace it? Ill reword the Howls after I get some hw done, so much for spring break
jagggar 03-13-06, 01:10 PM	Being a caster PrC, you should probably change them to Concentration and Spellcraft requirements instead of Jump and Survival.
Wilds 03-13-06, 01:25 PM	k, will put that change down. i will put up a revised version of the class later today after i reword stuff and change some of the reqs
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-13-06, 03:18 PM	Wilds, once it's set in stone...wanna help me lvl Cerb? or, hells, even Shadow...
Wilds 03-13-06, 03:36 PM	Sure, what level are they now? It is doubtful that a lycan could already have a level in either class. The reqs are Bab +4 basically, so it puts some lycans at a disadvantage
Wilds 03-13-06, 06:38 PM	Silver Hunter and Silver Caster. Beta version Silvered Hunter Requirements: Race: Lycanthrope Skills: Control Shape 6 (Afflicted Only), Knowledge (nature) 4, Survival 6 Feats: Power Attack, Improved Natural Attack Hitdice: d8 Table: The Silvered Hunter Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Wild items, Rein Over the Curse 2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Quick Change, Wild Empathy 3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Spirit of the Beast 4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Silvered Attack 5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Improved DR (+5/Silver), Fast Healing 6th +6 +5 +5 +2 7th +7 +5 +5 +2 Free Change 8th +8 +6 +6 +2 9th +9 +6 +6 +3 Improved DR (Silver and Magic) 10th +10 +7 +7 +3 Class Features All of the following are class features of the trickster. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Silvered Hunter gains no new profiencys with weapons, armor or shields. Wilds Items: Items with the Wild enhancement and effects similar to it affect the Lycanthrope when in alternate forms. Rein Over the Curse: A Silvered Hunter may repress his Curse of Lycanthropy as a Free Action. He may cancel the repression as a Free Action. Quick Change: A Silvered Hunter of 2nd Level gains the Quick Change Feat as a Bonus feat. He need not meet any requirements. Wild Empathy: functions as the class features of druid. Except as follows: Silvered Hunter levels + d20. Add an additional 8 when dealing with animals or dire animals of the same form as the Lycan’s animal. A Silvered Hunter of 2nd Level or higher can improve the attitude of animals or dire animals. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Silvered Hunter rolls 1d20 and adds his Silvered Hunter level and his Charisma modifier to determine the Wild Empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use Wild Empathy, the Silvered Hunter and the animal or Dire Animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. A Silvered Hunter can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check. Silvered Hunters get a +8 to their Wild Empathy check when deal with Animals or Dire Animals or the same species as their Animal Form. Spirit of the Beast: A Silvered Hunter of 3rd level gains the Spirit of the Beast Feat as a Bonus feat. He need not meet any requirements. Silvered Attack: The Natural Weapons of a Silvered Hunter of 4th level or higher are considered Silver weapons for purpose of damage reduction. At 8th level the Silvered Hunter’s Natural Attacks are also considered Magic Weapons for purpose of damage reduction. Improved DR: At 5th level the Silvered Hunter’s DR increases by +5, so Afflicted have DR 10/Silverand Natural have DR 15/Silver. At 9th level a Silvered Hunter gains DR /magic equal to their Silver DR. Fast Healing: The Silvered Hunter gains Fast Healing 1 at 5th level and Fast Healing 2 at 10th level. Free Change: A Silvered Hunter of 7th level or higher can change form as a free action. Silvered Caster Requirements: Race: Lycanthrope Skills: Concentration 6, Spellcraft 6, Knowledge (nature) 4 Feats: Improved Natural Attack, Eschew Materials Hitdice: d8 Table: The Silvered Caster Level BaB Fort Ref Will Special Spells Per day/Spells Known 1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Gift of the Blood +1 level existing spell casting class 2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Wild Empathy +1 level existing spell casting class 3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Quick Change +1 level existing spell casting class 4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Howl of the Pack +1 level existing spell casting class 5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Improved DR (+5/Silver) +1 level existing spell casting class 6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Howl of the Night +1 level existing spell casting class 7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Fast Healing 1 +1 level existing spell casting class 8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Bonus Feat +1 level existing spell casting class 9th +4 +3 +3 +6 Improved DR (Silver and Magic) +1 level existing spell casting class 10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Howl of the Moon +1 level existing spell casting class Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Silvered Caster gains no new weapons profiencys or armor/shield profiencys. Gift of the Blood: Items that directly enhance a Caster's spell casting ability are still in effect when the Caster enters hybrid and animal form. In addition the Caster may cast spells while in hybrid/animal form as though under the effect of Natural Spell Wild Empathy: A Silvered Caster of 2nd Level or higher can improve the attitude of animals or dire animals. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The Silvered Hunter rolls 1d20 and adds his Silvered Hunter level and his Charisma modifier to determine the Wild Empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use Wild Empathy, the Silvered Hunter and the animal or Dire Animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute, but as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. A Silvered Caster can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check. Silvered Casters get a +8 to their Wild Empathy check when deal with Animals or Dire Animals or the same species as their Animal Form. Quick Change: A Silvered Caster of 2nd Level gains the Quick Change Feat as a Bonus feat. He need not meet any requirements. Howl of the Pack:For a number of times per day equal to the Casters level in this class + the Casters primary spell stat. The Caster may howl when casting a spell, this takes the place of the verbal component of the spell and adds a verbal component if the spell did not have one already. One pack member per class levels is affected by the spell cast by the Caster to a maximum range of 5 feet per class level. Improved DR: At 5th level the Silvered Caster’s DR increases by +5, so Afflicted have DR 10/Silverand Natural have DR 15/Silver. At 9th level a Silvered Hunter gains DR /magic equal to their Silver DR. Howl of the Night: As a standard action the Caster emits an errery howl. Effect: The area around the Caster to a range of 10 feet per class level is hit by moonlight. This blocks out all other light and fills the area. One pack member per class level gets +1 to attack and damage while within the range of the Howl. The Howl lasts for a number of rounds equal to the Casters class level + primary spell casting stat. Fast Healing: The Silvered Caster gains Fast Healing 1 at 6th level. Bonus Feat Howl of the Moon: 3/day the Caster may emit a howl to the Moon, whether the moon is visible or not, all creatures with in 30 ft briefly glimpse the moon. The next spell that the Caster casts is affected by the Maximze metamagic feat. Activating this ability is a move action.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-13-06, 08:19 PM	their races,classes, and levels are listed in my sig liking the new version...
Wilds 03-13-06, 08:25 PM	notice anything that doesnt work in either of the classes? both of your chars are level 7, what leveling can we do? or do u mean stating them out?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-13-06, 08:31 PM	both are level 7, (for next round) although my ECL 15 is still active...
Zombomaniac 03-13-06, 10:35 PM	both are level 7, (for next round) although my ECL 15 is still active... And? You ECL 15 might as well be dead for all it matters. @Wilds This is looks great now, but we should get some proffecianal opion. To make sure this is balanced and as powerful as it can be we should post it in the PrC Forums. Do you want me to post it or you?
Wilds 03-13-06, 10:52 PM	Ill get it up in the PrC boards Heres the Link (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8686607#post8686607)
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-13-06, 11:07 PM	And? You ECL 15 might as well be dead for all it matters. @Wilds This is looks great now, but we should get some proffecianal opion. To make sure this is balanced and as powerful as it can be we should post it in the PrC Forums. Do you want me to post it or you? i know, i just meant he's still around somewhere...lol sticking with Cerb & Shadow though
Wilds 03-14-06, 10:29 PM	Zombo heres an idea for RP stuffs. I know its not totally coherent, rip and shred :D Among the lycans there is an anomaly. Contrary to what most of the good humanoids believe. Not all lycans are there to kill and maim. These lycans are that exception; they know what they are and accept it. They form their own packs and protect their lands. They do not hunt humanoids but rather their animal side’s true prey. May that be deer, boar, rabbits, bears any sort of animal. They hunt those lycans in their territory that hunt humanoids and scare the humans into hunting them down. Among those packs that try to live as they feel nature has set is a unique group. The protectors and defenders of their packs. They are the Silvered. They draw their power from of all things Silver. Silver is their weapon of choose. As lycananthrope characters advance in the Silvered classes their coats develop silver streaks. Whether it be fur, feathers or scales, streaks of silver become prevalent. In their humanoid base form the silver manifests as streaks in their hair. The Silvered are separated into two groups. Hunters are the defenders and hunters of the pack. They gather food for the pack and are the primary enforcers. More experienced Hunters are veterans at stalking and killing their fellow lycans. Their claws and teeth gradually gain a silver sheen. Slicing neatly through lycan flesh and leaving searing wounds that make the hunted wonder just exactly what they fought. That is if the hunted survive for long enough to ponder what attacked them. Only making things worse for the hunted and those attacking the Silvered. Their already impressive regenerative abilities are boosted. Eventually only magic silver can hurt them substantially. Even then it is lacking, advanced Silvered regenerate wounds at an exponential rate. One of the greatest fears of the humanoid races. If one of the Silvered escapes, it is guaranteed to come back fighting all too soon or it returns a time later. With its pack mates and vengeance in its heart.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-14-06, 11:12 PM	thats sweet Wilds! (by chance) anyone interested in an online RPG possibly through yahoo or something? i want to set up a campaign with Pazuzu & Yeenoghu (DF Deity versions) warring over the Abyss & Material Plane.... and there followers, etc
Zombomaniac 03-15-06, 07:59 AM	Zombo heres an idea for RP stuffs. I know its not totally coherent, rip and shred :D Among the lycans there is an anomaly. Contrary to what most of the good humanoids believe. Not all lycans are there to kill and maim. These lycans are that exception; they know what they are and accept it. They form their own packs and protect their lands. They do not hunt humanoids but rather their animal side’s true prey. May that be deer, boar, rabbits, bears any sort of animal. They hunt those lycans in their territory that hunt humanoids and scare the humans into hunting them down. Among those packs that try to live as they feel nature has set is a unique group. The protectors and defenders of their packs. They are the Silvered. They draw their power from of all things Silver. Silver is their weapon of choose. As lycananthrope characters advance in the Silvered classes their coats develop silver streaks. Whether it be fur, feathers or scales, streaks of silver become prevalent. In their humanoid base form the silver manifests as streaks in their hair. The Silvered are separated into two groups. Hunters are the defenders and hunters of the pack. They gather food for the pack and are the primary enforcers. More experienced Hunters are veterans at stalking and killing their fellow lycans. Their claws and teeth gradually gain a silver sheen. Slicing neatly through lycan flesh and leaving searing wounds that make the hunted wonder just exactly what they fought. That is if the hunted survive for long enough to ponder what attacked them. Only making things worse for the hunted and those attacking the Silvered. Their already impressive regenerative abilities are boosted. Eventually only magic silver can hurt them substantially. Even then it is lacking, advanced Silvered regenerate wounds at an exponential rate. One of the greatest fears of the humanoid races. If one of the Silvered escapes, it is guaranteed to come back fighting all too soon or it returns a time later. With its pack mates and vengeance in its heart. Nice. :thumbsup: But I dont see anything about the Casters. :thumbsdow
Wilds 03-15-06, 09:59 AM	I hit a wall thinking. Want to add stuff about the Casters?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-15-06, 03:36 PM	Hmmm...I might be able to help you with that...I'll have to look @ the Casters a little more, maybe I can think of some little flavour.
Zombomaniac 03-15-06, 08:18 PM	I hit a wall thinking. Want to add stuff about the Casters? :raincloud So much to do. At least this one is easy. I will have it done in a few minutes. [EDIT] I think this will cover it. The other branch of the Silvered is the mighty Casters. They act as the back line and supportive warriors. If they are of Divine origin they most often serve to heal their allies wounds in the middle of battle and those of a Arcane origin most often attack from the sidelines letting loose hails of offences magic. It is often that Casters use their magical process to locate enemies and possible allies of the Pack. The Silvered most often lead the Packs they protect and Packs are as often lead by Casters as they are by Hunters.. Add this to the end and post it in the Silvered PrCs thread. :) Wilds you also need to edit the Hunter PrC. The Wild Emathy needs to be chaged in them both, not just the Caster. Just change where it says "Caster" to "Hunter" -Zombie
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-15-06, 09:01 PM	Nice work :P
Zombomaniac 03-16-06, 03:49 AM	Ok everyone we got a big bit of critizism and once we make this user happy with it we will have a much better class. Howl of the Pack OMG, so your saying that I can use this ability to cast personal only spells on my party members? As a GM, I read that ability and say "Instant Ban!" ANYTHING that allows you to cast personal only spells on other characters is broken. Now lets add on the fact that I can enchant MULTIPLE PEOPLE with the same spell? This is so ridiculously broken I kind of laughed when I read it (but not really). We're gonna ned to fix this. Something like a more powerful Share Spells like the Famliars have should cover it. Rein over the curse is silly. Even when in humanoid form, you get +2 to Wisdom and the Iron Will feat! Why would I ever want to give that up? If I did, its just better to cure the damn thing and be done with it! I think you should give like a +4 bonus to the Control Shape skill, and then at a later level (lets say 10th), give complete control over shaping, just like a natural lycanthrope. He misunderstood the effect of the ability so wewill need to reword it to make it clearer. Silvered Attack is redundant. The rules ALREADY STATE that if a creature has a damage reduction (as the lycanthrope does), its natural weapons bypass that type of damage reduction. Yes, the ability to have your natural weapons count as magical can be nice, but correct me if I am wrong but there is already a magic item (amulet I believe) in the DMG that give an enhancement bonus to all your natural attacks, so again this is redundant and useless. I think he misunderstood the rules on this. Jagggar posted about it. Will have to look that over. Improved DR is A. kind of broken, a DR of 15 in ANYTHING is incredibly powerful for a PC and B. should be reworded. Do they get DR/silver and magic or DR/silver or magic (I assume the first because the second one just makes them weaker, but still you need to specify). We might want to change it to just the /DR Silver and Magic and put in another ability to cover the lose of 15/DR. Finally, I think this class really lacks interesting abilities that would make me want to take the class. I suggest you look at Black Blood Hunter prc in the Players Guide to Faerun (pg. 177), it is exactly what you are describing here and can easily be adapted to any setting. It will also help you come up with a more unique class with worthwhile abilities. This right here is what will kill or class. Doesn't matter how great the machanics are, if no one likes it then it is doomed. We will have to work on this. Good RP (which we are doing), good descriptions for abilities, and interesting abilities are what we need to work on.
Wilds 03-16-06, 12:47 PM	I was wondering about that natural weapons have the same quality as your personal DR. That would make Silvered Attack useless. Hrmmm, need to remake that then I guess. Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a werewolf’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy. Rein Over the Curse: A Silvered Hunter may repress his Curse of Lycanthropy as a Free Action. He may cancel the repression as a Free Action. how does that not make sense? I dont think that post has ever looked at lycan characters before. I dont understand whats wrong with Howl of the Pack, it has restrictions. Improved DR: At 5th level the Silvered Caster’s DR increases by +5, so Afflicted have DR 10/Silverand Natural have DR 15/Silver. At 9th level a Silvered Caster gains DR /Magic Silver. So Natural have DR 15/Magical Silver. Afflicted DR 10/ Magical Silver.
Zombomaniac 03-16-06, 02:11 PM	Rein Over the Curse: A Silvered Hunter may repress his Curse of Lycanthropy as a Free Action. He may cancel the repression as a Free Action. Jagggar took care of it. He understands. Improved DR: At 5th level the Silvered Caster’s DR increases by +5, so Afflicted have DR 10/Silverand Natural have DR 15/Silver. At 9th level a Silvered Caster gains DR /Magic Silver. So Natural have DR 15/Magical Silver. Afflicted DR 10/ Magical Silver. I think for the rules it has to say Silver and Magic. Other than that I think he is over reacting. So dont change it. He made another post and it gives some good ideas.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-16-06, 03:16 PM	hey, once that farspawned is done, we can unleash hell ^_^
Zombomaniac 03-31-06, 07:49 PM	Two books I have read recently have had some great Lycanthrope stuff. Mistress of the Night and Son of Thunder have A LOT of great stuff in them. I plan on stating some of the stuff i saw in Son of Thunder. @Jagggar Mistress of the Night has something similar to your -were in it. They're not the same but I think you will like it.
Wilds 03-31-06, 08:40 PM	Those reading books or game books?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 03-31-06, 10:23 PM	hey, once that farspawned is done, we can unleash hell ^_^ scrap that, screw it...new guild formed...hell HAS been unleashed.
thasis 04-01-06, 03:03 AM	Hell tastes fuzzy.
Zombomaniac 04-01-06, 08:47 AM	Those reading books or game books? Reading and by FF.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 04-01-06, 09:49 AM	Hell tastes fuzzy. hahaha..like a squirrel mixed with waffles....squaffles :D
Wilds 04-01-06, 11:49 AM	hahaha..like a squirrel mixed with waffles....squaffles :D poor little squirrels....
Kobold_Ur_Priest 04-01-06, 11:58 AM	hahahaha hey Wilds-hit the new Guild up...you may like it...and we could use your wilderness oriented talents...soon..
thasis 04-01-06, 03:27 PM	I have squafels drizzled with syrup made of desecrated celestial blood :P :D
Wilds 04-01-06, 03:52 PM	new guild? the guild of ultime evil?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 04-01-06, 08:26 PM	no. MY guild.
Wilds 04-01-06, 08:41 PM	o, well my werewolf char will be CN, i think, or maybe EN depending
Kobold_Ur_Priest 04-01-06, 11:14 PM	works for me
Deviston 04-06-06, 07:34 PM	Werewolves should be able to pass on lycanthropy even if they are afflicted. Vampires should be less magical and more biological. I like the one at the begining of the thread, and am working with it. Just a few thoughts to put out and to get this on my list.
Wilds 04-06-06, 07:58 PM	Even if they only want to defend their territory? What good would spreading the curse do if those afflicted arent able to control themselves.
Deviston 04-07-06, 03:45 PM	They can, in an animalistic way. So, you turn someone, then they see you as a fellow (( like doggy butt sniffing )) and act as two animals meeting do. If they are both alphas then a fight occurs, one alpha one not, pack starts to form. Plus, I don't believe in all of the can't control yourself rule. Only on the first change, after that, you get to control yourself.
Wilds 04-07-06, 07:06 PM	I dont think thats how the rules work for the shifting of an afflicted. I'm pretty sure they would have to resist the change, and then if they due change, they have to make a will save or go, CE if werewolf, which isnt good for the local area
Zombomaniac 04-07-06, 10:07 PM	They can, in an animalistic way. So, you turn someone, then they see you as a fellow (( like doggy butt sniffing )) and act as two animals meeting do. If they are both alphas then a fight occurs, one alpha one not, pack starts to form. Plus, I don't believe in all of the can't control yourself rule. Only on the first change, after that, you get to control yourself. Thats kinda ify. They may or may not "see you as a fellow". Most people upon turning go through a "woe is me" phase. On the "alpha" thing. A fight may never occur at all and the "lesser" may not want to be in a pack or anything the like. On the "control yourself rule" it varies, mainly upon if you know you are a Were-Creature or not. If you know then you could possibly not lose control even on the first time you change, but if you dont know or simply live in denial about it then you will keep having uncontroled changes until you take control of it or die. I dont think thats how the rules work for the shifting of an afflicted. I'm pretty sure they would have to resist the change, and then if they due change, they have to make a will save or go, CE if werewolf, which isnt good for the local area Very true. If they know then they can resist and afflicted may or may not change aglinment. They have to make a Will save based on the number of times they have transformed or either get closer or all the way to their animal's aglinment. Cant remember which.
Wilds 04-08-06, 02:28 AM	Its all the way, straight to CE for werewolves
Zombomaniac 04-08-06, 02:09 PM	Its all the way, straight to CE for werewolves Ok so ya you go straight to it. CE for Were-wolves, LG for Were-Bears, and so on. :)
Deviston 04-09-06, 09:08 AM	BAH! that is just bunk! Eberron has the right idea, nothing is COMPLETELY restricted to alignments. Sure, things are more likely to be, but not required. A werewolf is not a outsider with the evil subtype, so I say that is is just a propencity. They are more likey to be of that alignment. Werewolves being evil never made sense to me. In native american lore, they were these benevolent spirit guardians. What makes them evil in DND? They, eat meat? Hunt in packs? Bears eat meat, boars hunt in packs. I refuse to make anything but things with outsider subtypes alignment restricted. (( mindless and animals are the exception ))
Zombomaniac 04-09-06, 11:31 AM	BAH! that is just bunk! Eberron has the right idea, nothing is COMPLETELY restricted to alignments. Sure, things are more likely to be, but not required. A werewolf is not a outsider with the evil subtype, so I say that is is just a propencity. They are more likey to be of that alignment. Werewolves being evil never made sense to me. In native american lore, they were these benevolent spirit guardians. What makes them evil in DND? They, eat meat? Hunt in packs? Bears eat meat, boars hunt in packs. I refuse to make anything but things with outsider subtypes alignment restricted. (( mindless and animals are the exception )) I acctully agree. I never impose the alignment rule when I run a game, but I am just stating the rules. Besides if the Were-Creature makes the Will save they dont change and they aren't stuck with that alignment, they just change to it and then over time they can change as normal. Also i dont even restrict Evil outsiders to Evil. I guese I use the Eberron system of not restricting even with animals I think it can vary.
Wilds 04-09-06, 12:35 PM	Werewolves r evil in dnd because of medievil lore. Werewolves were the evil hunters that killed innocent people. I personally see animals as N, and sentien animals as only deviate one degree from N, so any werewolves that i make that have had bad experiences, are NE But, we go by the rules here, unless we can convice the dms to change part of the SRD for the game.
Eglentyne 04-10-06, 12:49 AM	[quote}Wilds Werewolves r evil in dnd because of medievil lore. Werewolves were the evil hunters that killed innocent people. I personally see animals as N, and sentien animals as only deviate one degree from N, so any werewolves that i make that have had bad experiences, are NE But, we go by the rules here, unless we can convice the dms to change part of the SRD for the game. [/qutoe] I seee the same thing with were tigers and were panthers, book say ng. but in real life I study, in america they hunted down and kiled most of the cats. american lore says they are evil, but in real life they are not. in south americia and other places they hunt them down still, panther are not evil like it is believed, so is the tiger not evil. Like the lore of history says they are. books say ng though, should be up to player to choice aligment.
jagggar 04-10-06, 11:54 AM	Guess one of the reasons you have to start as a natural lycanthrope if you wanna play one from the beginning. That's right, natural lycans get to choose their alignment just like any other character. While we are playing an Ebberon slanted game with creatures and their alignments (we haven't talked about clerics, gods, and alignments yet), the curse of lycanthropy is a curse. I'll have to look at the 3.5 rules again before making a decision on exactly how we're going to deal with the 'problem'. Even then, I might just type up several ways of doing it without saying which one we'll be using and make you bite someone to find out.
Wilds 04-10-06, 12:43 PM	Even then, I might just type up several ways of doing it without saying which one we'll be using and make you bite someone to find out. The evilness/amusement from that will be great. But any char with the Silvered Hunter class wont be a transmitter unless they want to. Presuming we get those PrCs passed in the thread.
jagggar 04-10-06, 04:09 PM	An Overview of Lycanthropes and Alignment Alignment Any. Noble creatures such as bears, eagles, and lions tend to produce good-aligned lycanthropes. Sinister creatures such as rats, snakes, and wolves tend to produce evil-aligned lycanthropes. This is a reflection of how these animals are perceived, not any innate quality of the animal itself, so the alignment of the animal form can be arbitrarily assigned. Any. So if your campaign setting has old European view of wolves as evil, your werewolves should be Evil. If the campaign setting looks at wolves and sees that they stick together in an orderly pack, they should probably be Lawful. If your campign setting has the Native American view of wolves as benevolent guardians, they should be Good. As a sort of subnote here on animals and alignment, I think I'd always leave animals themselves at neutral. If I have non-neutral animals, it's probably because I just watched a Disney movie and I've decided to treat animals as awakened whether or not I do give them the power of speech. Lycanthropy As An Affliction When a character contracts lycanthropy through a lycanthrope’s bite (see above), no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon. On that night, the afflicted character involuntarily assumes animal form and forgets his or her own identity, temporarily becoming an NPC. The character remains in animal form, assuming the appropriate alignment, until the next dawn. The character’s actions during this first episode are dictated by the alignment of its animal form. The character remembers nothing about the entire episode (or subsequent episodes) unless he succeeds on a DC 15 Wisdom check, in which case he becomes aware of his lycanthropic condition. So you're safe at the very least until the next full moon. The real question here is what is meant by "assuming the appropriate alignment." It's easy enough to say that the werewolf (CE) finds a farm house and has a nice meal, but what does this mean for the Lawful Good werebear? Perhaps the werebear looks after the party as if they were its cubs. Attack the party? Better be ready for momma bear to rip you a new one. Thereafter, the character is subject to involuntary transformation under the full moon and whenever damaged in combat. He or she feels an overwhelming rage building up and must succeed on a Control Shape check (see below) to resist changing into animal form. Any player character not yet aware of his or her lycanthropic condition temporarily becomes an NPC during an involuntary change, and acts according to the alignment of his or her animal form. This all sounds reasonable. It probably also sounds the least confusing out of all of this. A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15 + number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes. This is where it kinda confuses me. In folklore that I can remember, if someone knew they were a werewolf, they'd tie themselves up during the full moon or have friends do it for them so they couldn't hurt anyone. Otherwise, the were either embraced the animal nature, or didn't know they were one (both already covered by the rules.). Once a character becomes aware of his affliction, he can now voluntarily attempt to change to animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate Control Shape check DC. An attempt is a standard action and can be made each round. Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediately and permanently changes the character’s alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope. Voluntary change immediately bestowing the appropriate alignment sounds all right. If you want to embrace your animal nature, you're probably going to embrace it fully. While it says permanently, we all know that PCs are often exceptions to the alignment rules. The DM has two obvious options when an afflicted lycanthrope wants to change alignments. Either they can change their alignment with no more difficulties than a normal creature could. The other option is that the character must learn to overcome his animal nature and will have to battle the urge to transform once again.
Zombomaniac 04-10-06, 11:44 PM	*snip* :clap: Very well done. I agree with what you have said. And for the record I am still gong to make a Natural Human Werebear (black) Likely CE or another E. I am also going to make a Ghost for the Necromantic Society. I think he will be my N. L, N, or C I dont know just yet. :thinks:
jagggar 04-12-06, 01:50 AM	So, I had a random urge to watch Night of the Living Dead (1968 Romero film) and this sparks a question: Are all zombies Undead? D&D Definition: "Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces." Some Zombie "Resources": George A. Romero films Resident Evil House of the Dead 28 Days Later
Deviston 04-12-06, 10:19 AM	look at it this way. most of the new movies are using scientific ways to explain supernatural things . . . vamps, zombies, things that they can come up with some possibly hafl cocked explanation. notice they dont try to explain skeleton undead. monsters from Doom . . . no longer hell demons, now genetic freak accident. Vampires from Blade/Underworld . . . not undead, virus carriers so on and so forth. I plan on making a d20 modern campaign where there is not magic or Force or anything. such will be the explanations for these beasties. no undead, just freaky virus infected people. in one way or another.
Wilds 04-12-06, 10:30 AM	science is being used now more than magic in society because peopel can push science aside faster than they can push magic. they are paranoid and fearful that some type of magic might actually exist that has the possibility ot animate the dead. by saying its science, they can push it aside and call it sci-fi. that d20 campgain sounds really interesting
jagggar 04-12-06, 11:32 AM	Yep. Back in '68 it was radition from a meteor. Resident Evil is the T-virus. 28 Days Later is pretty much liquid rage. I do belive House of the Dead (the movie) did have skeletons. But, it was necromancy that brought them to life IIRC. Though thinking about it, hopefully that could be a way to survive the zombie apocalypse. Just wait until all the recent kills rot enough to fall apart, then go head-shot yourself some perserved corpses. As long as you're running a D20 Modern campaign without divine FX, using Undead undead is fine. But what if you want sciency-zombies that freak out the the Turning Machine? My first guesses would be Construct and/or just applying a template to whatever creature you want zombied. Or maybe you leave them undead, but give them turning immunity.
jagggar 05-30-06, 09:56 AM	Animal Item Slots (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031125a) Although it's easy to imagine an animal benefiting from magic equipment beyond a simple saddle and a suit of barding, fitting a mount's physiology to the list of item slots available to characters is not an easy task. Try the following variant list of item slots for quadruped animals (and other monsters when appropriate). One skull cap or helm One pair of lenses or goggles One collar One saddle blanket or vest One saddle or jacket One belt or strap worn in front of or over the haunches One pectoral or harness worn over the chest or shoulders One pair foreleg bracers One pair of foreleg shoes or mitts -- hoofed creatures wear shoes and creatures with paws wear mitts Two rings -- creatures with toes wear rings on the toes and creatures with hooves wear "rings" just above fore hooves One pair of hind leg shoes or mitts -- hoofed creatures wear shoes and creatures with paws wear mitts Just a bit of work and we'll be able to decide what can be worn in both forms.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-30-06, 04:18 PM	I sense a return of the Lycan Blood Feud :D
Wilds 05-30-06, 07:20 PM	I sense a return of the Lycan Blood Feud :D Lycan blood feud? Like Underworld style, or mass feading style. Either way, the lycans will be back :coolcthul
jagggar 05-30-06, 08:23 PM	Or a fued like wolf vs bear vs panther vs tiger vs dragon errr. . . Wouldn't a were-dragon kick ass? I just came across a Best Buy gift card I lost. I'm pretty tempted to buy Underworld Evolution if they've got the director's/extended/unratted cut out.
turalisj 05-30-06, 08:53 PM	I'm playing the real guild wars.... AND IT KICKS ASS!!!!! :D But yeah, I think a were-half dragon would diffinatly kick some serious ass. A half-were tiger/half vampire? I sense a distrubance in the force I haven't felt in a while... (ever since I had the drow preistess over for dinner one night..)
Zombomaniac 05-30-06, 11:17 PM	Or a fued like wolf vs bear vs panther vs tiger vs dragon errr. . . Wouldn't a were-dragon kick ass? Funny thing about that, about a year ago I ran across a Were-Dragon homebrew. They did a good job of it. Greate abilities, multiple types of Were-Dragons based on dragon race. It truely did kick ass. Which kinda sucks cause I didn't add it to favorites. :weep:
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-30-06, 11:54 PM	Lycan blood feud? Like Underworld style, or mass feading style. Either way, the lycans will be back :coolcthul Underworld style, Lycans(Vs. other Lycan Clans) Vs. Undead i like it that way
jagggar 05-31-06, 12:34 AM	Was it this? (http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-533069.html) There was another topic where someone was asking if there was a weredragon. I'm disappointed in people. A whole bunch of "You can't do that, lycanthrope has to be an animal" and "dude, that'd just be broken" and such. Hello? Wizard with fireball. Yeah, that can't happen. . . Edit: On the other hand, I see Tenzhi defending the idea of a herbivore variety of lycanthropy. :P
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-31-06, 03:22 PM	I WANT 1! and a were-rabbit monk would kick ass, dont deny it!
jagggar 05-31-06, 05:51 PM	Oh man, what was it? There was like a fighter video game. I know it was on Gamecube, not sure what else. You could transform into a hybrid form. I think one chick was a rabbit. I think they were the products of scientific experiements. "Aww, look at the cute little bunny-wabbit" *wererabbit transforms to hybrid and strikes fighting pose" "WHAH!" "Aaaah! Runaway!" *wererabbit pulls out one of those mid-air kicks that follows the oppoenent half way across the battlefield*
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-31-06, 07:14 PM	my step bro had it....game kicked ass, not sure of the name at the moment though
Zombomaniac 05-31-06, 07:23 PM	Bloody Roar is the name if we are thing of the same game and Bloody Roar kicks ass and is on PS2. I know BR has a Were-Creature-esk theme and has a Rabbit person.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-31-06, 07:56 PM	Bloody Roar is the name if we are thing of the same game and Bloody Roar kicks ass and is on PS2. I know BR has a Were-Creature-esk theme and has a Rabbit person. hells yes, that was it! i gotta find where he put it.... side note: anyone wanna see how they can max a were-rabbit monk?
Wilds 05-31-06, 09:13 PM	BLOODY ROAR I love that game. were-dragon.....hmmmmm
jagggar 05-31-06, 09:45 PM	So as a cheap way to make a dracothrope. . . Once upon a time a dragon and a lycanthrope fell in lust. . . Just make the animal form something large and you could get wings whenever you went hybrid or animal. Well, before we could make a wererabbit, we'd have to do a couple of things first. Find stats for rabbits, and second, decide if we're gunna do anything special to the whole carnivore or omnivore requirement. I think I liked the girl who had a cat form. She fought with her sleeves. Yeah, it was Bloody Roar.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-31-06, 09:46 PM	were-dragon.....hmmmmm im thinking, Were-Dragon clan of samurais....vs. were-bear fighters....vs. were-wolf rangers
Wilds 05-31-06, 10:09 PM	An inter-species Lycanthrope war. Now that would be a sight. Hmmm, I think that Lycans should at least be Omnivoures. Lycans as herbivours just doesnt fit the feel of them
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-31-06, 10:13 PM	An inter-species Lycanthrope war. Now that would be a sight. Hmmm, I think that Lycans should at least be Omnivoures. Lycans as herbivours just doesnt fit the feel of them seriously, if someone's up for it, let's make/max a 20th level Wererabbit Monk (LE monk of course :P )
Wilds 05-31-06, 10:36 PM	Uhhh i think if anyhting a Were-rabbit would be NG, just because thats how the crazy dnd alignment system works
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-31-06, 10:46 PM	how bout LN? so i can be "good" but use..."evil-ish" methods? plz? lol can we make him?
thasis 05-31-06, 10:46 PM	Wererabbit? Ever read the book... that was one sick mother****er...
Kobold_Ur_Priest 05-31-06, 10:50 PM	i know i have the vision of a ****** off wererabbit monk wielding some insane weapon, like a Large Spiked Chain or something.... remember i wanna max him out in every aspect....
Zombomaniac 05-31-06, 10:53 PM	Uhhh i think if anyhting a Were-rabbit would be NG, just because thats how the crazy dnd alignment system works Ya I would see the animal being that and an Afflicted being forced to that, but a Natural would be free to make his/her own choice.
jagggar 05-31-06, 11:35 PM	Uhhh i think if anyhting a Were-rabbit would be NG, just because thats how the crazy dnd alignment system works Did you not see the sharp pointy teeth on that bunny? And what's his name from Dungeon Crawl Inc. Sure he's a half-fiend, but he's an evil rabbit none-the-less.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-01-06, 03:46 PM	Did you not see the sharp pointy teeth on that bunny? And what's his name from Dungeon Crawl Inc. Sure he's a half-fiend, but he's an evil rabbit none-the-less. Evil Wererabbit Monks reign over all.
jagggar 06-01-06, 06:26 PM	I thought Dragons ruled over all. Which would leave weredragons ruling over all weres. Now, as far as rabbit stats go, I think we have 3 options. OA gives hare hengeyokai Str 1, Dex 19, Con 10, a speed of 40 feet and a 1d3 bite attack. Issue 341 of Dragon has a list of alternate familiars which includes the rabbit and says they have the same stats as cats. (As if a cat killing a commoner wasn't bad enough. . .) We can ask on the board if there are any homebrew stats for rabbits. Now, I think we could write off the meat-eater requirement as a flavor thing. But unless we want to make a two-sizes-smaller-lycan template, it'll probably have to be a halfling or a gnome (or a kobold?). A Small sized base race.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-01-06, 08:15 PM	hmmm White Lotus Clan LE Gnome WereRabbit Monks :D
Zombomaniac 06-01-06, 11:00 PM	I say Kobolds if we go with Monks since Kolbolds fit with that pretty well or Gnomes simply because Gnomes are so greatly ignored.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-01-06, 11:04 PM	Black Lotus Clan ( Kobold Were-Dragon Monk/Samurai/Ninja) :P
Wilds 06-02-06, 06:03 PM	Kobold monks go for Disciple of the Eye (i beleive) that is a fun class
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-02-06, 07:11 PM	Kobold monks go for Disciple of the Eye (i beleive) that is a fun class been there, played that idk i need a build for the ECL 7 round i want a Cleric/Soul Hunter....no idea for a good race or anything yet...any thoughts?
Zombomaniac 06-02-06, 11:07 PM	Well lets look at important stats. That normally helps pick the race pretty quick. Str - Important to Clerics and SHs if they go melee Dex - Important if you are going ranged Con - Important for HP, but that's it for Cleric and SH Int - Not to terribly important for either Cleric or SH. Wis - If you are using Clerical spells a lot then this is a must Char - If you are using Soul Powers a lot then this is a must It seems mostly like you have to deside how Clerical or SH-ish you will be. Can you tell us how many levels of each you have? Assume you have no LA or Racial HD. Cleric 1/SH 6? C 5/SH 2? C 3/SH 4? Why go split Cleric and SH? Wouldn't it be easier to go full one or the other?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-03-06, 11:48 AM	Why go split Cleric and SH? Wouldn't it be easier to go full one or the other? well, i wanted it to be a character which was a go-between for DDM & The War Father (hence SH/C) but if you think a str8 build on ONE of the classes is better, so be it....Cleric it is then.
Zombomaniac 06-03-06, 04:25 PM	well, i wanted it to be a character which was a go-between for DDM & The War Father (hence SH/C) but if you think a str8 build on ONE of the classes is better, so be it....Cleric it is then. You can be a Dual Cleric of both so RP wise nothing is in the way. Though I would suggest picing one as your main deity for stats. Going SH doesn't make it where you can't follow both it just means you dont draw power from them. You pick either way its your build. Am I assuming you are going Full SH or Cleric?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-03-06, 06:55 PM	Ill go with: Warforged Cleric (War Father) maybe Fighter 2/Cleric 5 (Destruction, Fire) any suggested builds? or best way to max my above idea?
Wilds 06-04-06, 02:26 PM	Ok so who still wants to make a lycan group?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-04-06, 03:02 PM	Me, but i'll be focusing on my fighter/cleric
Zombomaniac 06-05-06, 02:19 AM	Me. I am going to make a Were-Bear or Cheeta. Not sure which.
jagggar 06-05-06, 10:16 PM	Now, as far as rabbit stats go, I think we have 3 options. 1. OA gives hare hengeyokai Str 1, Dex 19, Con 10, a speed of 40 feet and a 1d3 bite attack. 2. Issue 341 of Dragon has a list of alternate familiars which includes the rabbit and says they have the same stats as cats. (As if a cat killing a commoner wasn't bad enough. . .) 3. We can ask on the board if there are any homebrew stats for rabbits. Kobold, which method do you wanna use?
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-05-06, 11:14 PM	#2
Wilds 06-11-06, 12:57 PM	Discussion Topic: There are worlds were lycanthropes are just creatures. Typically greyhawk and normall dnd campgains. There are worlds were lycanthropes have been hunted to near extinction. Ebberon But what of worlds where lycanthropes are the norm? They are the majority population. Base race is now behind what lycan group you are part of. So more like the worlds we are used too but instead of elves and humans feuding over land. It would be were-bears and were-wolves, etc. Alignment not withstanding do to the overwhelming number of lycans.
jagggar 06-11-06, 01:03 PM	I think I recall a topic on the planes board a long time ago about a plane where if lycanthropy wasn't the norm, it was very, very common. Think I might try to dig that up later after search comes back up. But it would be kinda neat.
Wilds 06-11-06, 11:46 PM	I was thinking today about it. It would be interesting. Amoung the non-lycan races Silver would be a highly coveted and prized metal. Not to mention a metal that would get you killed on site. Since lycans have no use for it, they would most likely outlaw its use in arms. Possibly even farther into banning silver jewerly and such.
jagggar 06-11-06, 11:55 PM	A while back, I was creating a city-state ruled by were-tigers. Silver weapons were illegal for all but the royalty, royal guard, and those with special permission from the royalty. All lycans were welcome except for were-rats who live in the sewers. (And the shady villianous noble has secret dealings with them.) The were-tigers were more concerned with their rituals and the merchants most likely have more control than the tigers, but the tigers don't mind too much. I don't really recall what I decided about silver pieces. I think they were not pure enough silver, so they can't really be used against the tigers.
Zombomaniac 06-12-06, 02:02 AM	:lightbulb I've got an idea. :eek: Lets make a Lycan Campain setting. :king: We're all smart people *checks everyone's I.Q.* Ok, most of us are smart people. ;) But we could make one pretty easy and its not like any of us are really doing anything right now. Ya know with summer and no IFWG right now. :)
jagggar 06-12-06, 04:23 AM	Oh, okay. . . I'll let you smart people work on it then. . . We gunna make a Lycan setting or a Lycan and a Vamp setting?
Zombomaniac 06-12-06, 04:32 AM	I'll leave that up to the majority. And Jagggar you are on the list of smart people so please join in as one of our voices of common sense. We have so few of those these days.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-12-06, 09:48 AM	I'll help idea-wise if thats ok with Jaggar & Z?
Zombomaniac 06-12-06, 04:22 PM	I'll help idea-wise if thats ok with Jaggar & Z? of course.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-12-06, 04:38 PM	I used to have a campaign going with a friend that was centered on different Lycan-Factions that were like guerrilla armies..it was actually pretty cool...
Wilds 06-12-06, 06:33 PM	I say Lycan only. We all know the atypical vampire control structure. But no one has yet touched on what Lycans would do.
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-12-06, 06:38 PM	I say Lycan only. We all know the atypical vampire control structure. But no one has yet touched on what Lycans would do. Seconded.
jagggar 06-12-06, 06:43 PM	We do know? Are we sure I know? And what do you mean no one has touched on what Lycans would do? In what situation exactly?
Wilds 06-12-06, 08:07 PM	Like what lycans would do if they were the dominate race/group. I see vampires as the noble born acting plotting undead. Dont know too much Blade I guess, just dont see them as interesting. Lycans can chagne so any one around someone could be a lycan.
Zombomaniac 06-12-06, 08:25 PM	Kind of how I am seeing Lycans in our setting is that they are the top Dogs (or cats, rabbits, bats, etc). Like it was mentioned earlier Lycan race has taken a greater importance then Base Race. A Were-Wolf Elf and a Were-Tiger Elf could easily not get along because of the Wolf/Tiger difference On the Vampire thing I see them being about the same as far as population, but since Lycans and Vamps have never gotten along well the Lycan dominace will obviously affect the Vamps. What i am seeing is that their numbers haven't chaged that much, but they are a lot moresecretive and organized in trying to protect their race. On the Silver thing I would say that the general public desent have it, but it can be gained. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is illegal for most people to have it, just harder to get. Look at normal fantasy settings. it isn't normally illegal for people to carry a knife so why would it be legaly different here? Now Silver will be rarer, but in general you would see it more often. Like on the weapons of Vampire Hunters (since Vamps are a bigger public enemy) Elite Gaurds and so forth.
jagggar 06-12-06, 09:54 PM	Okay, but there are two ways you can be the dominate group. You can be the most powerful. (Really, why aren't dragons in charge?) -OR- You can be the most populous (Hmmm, humans. Normally anyway.) Now I know we want to try and create a lycan-dominated world here, but looking at the other worlds helps understand some stuff to some degree. Now, what does everyone know about werewolves? Silver hurts them. You turn into one if you get bit by one. Until right about now, I was pretty upset with the Church of the Silver Flame. But really, with the traditional (western?) view of lycans, werewolves in particular, why should they be running around? They're nice and rare like they 'should' be. But a "generic" setting doesn't usually have that racial cleansing. So that's where they toss in that thing that prevents afflicted lycanthropes from passing on the curse. So, what I want to know, is if there are going to be any normal humanoids at all if Lycanthropes are in charge because of population? Why not bite them all and have a nice big population of your animal type?
Wilds 06-12-06, 10:04 PM	Keeps a nice little stock of people that can be controlled. Though I dont know why they wouldnt convert every one. It does make some sense
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-12-06, 10:21 PM	For ours (my friend's campaign anyway) he had different city-states controlled by different Lycan Factions, and warring groups within the aforementioned areas
Kobold_Ur_Priest 06-14-06, 10:42 PM	just re-made an old character from our Lycan Wars: Black Fang NE Male Werebear Dwarf Bear-Totem Barbarian 2/Avenging Druid 2 He's pretty cool, in fact, he was one of the Faction leaders...led a clan of wildass dwarves who lived in a massive tunnel complex within a mountain, and every one of them was a werebear they viewed themselves as nature's wrath incarnate ( hence Avenging Druid & Bear-Totem Barbarian)