Thread of Grievances [Archive] - Wizards Community

Thread of Grievances [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dyne
12-29-04, 04:00 AM Well, since the WizO's have called for it (and because none of the GM's are online right now), I've created this thread. I hope that no one believes that I am overstepping my bounds.

This thread will be used for any complaint that anyone has. This thread was inspired by the flaming during the First IFWG, and this thread has been created to keep it all in one place (and to regulate it better).

If you have any complaint or concern, post it here. I think I might do everyone the favor of keeping track of it all in this first post as well.
Dyne
12-29-04, 04:11 AM I'm sorry that I will be the first person to post a grievance on this thread.

My grievance involves the user Silmarien Aldalome. I feel no personal hatred toward Silmarien Aldalome, but I have certain concerns that involve his actions. The are:

1. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has treated several users on several occasions. I feel that Silmarien Aldalome has failed to show these users the respect that they deserved, and that he acted inappropriately toward them, especially as a Game Master of this forum. There are at least 3 users that I feel Silmarien Aldalome has treated unfairly on several occasions. If I am wished to get into more depth, I can describe in-depth why I feel that he has shown disrepect towards these people.

2. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has handled certain in-game concepts. This can be split into several categories.

3. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has acted as a Game Master of the Inter-Foundation War Games on several occasions.

4. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has acted as a Player in the Inter-Foundation War Games on several occasions.

5. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has acted as both a Player and a Game Master of the Inter-Foundation War Games on several occasions, in which both positions have overlapped. I feel that he has handled the separation between the two positions rather poorly on several occasions.

As I have stated, the above are my general feelings. I can elaborate on exactly which instances have provoked these grievances which I bring before the perusal of posters of the Guild House, as well as the Wizards Online Moderators WizO_Catoblepas and WizO_Shadow. I hope that the above grievances are not perceived as a personal malice in any way. They are real concerns that I have, and that I have the right to express as a human being and as a poster of the Wizards of the Coast Online Message Boards. And they are serious concerns that must be handled to solve certain conflict, as well as to prevent such conflict from happening again.
Tenzhi
12-29-04, 04:38 AM Query: As this thread is intended for use with the new incarnation of the IFGW, isn't it rather bad form to start it off by bringing up complaints pertaining to the previous incarnation of the IFGW which, by all rights, should now be water under a burning bridge?
Dyne
12-29-04, 03:57 PM History repeats itself. Unless things are resolved, they are doomed to happen again.

If you want to wait until the same junk happens again, then by all means.
BronzeBeard
12-29-04, 07:28 PM Query: As this thread is intended for use with the new incarnation of the IFGW, isn't it rather bad form to start it off by bringing up complaints pertaining to the previous incarnation of the IFGW which, by all rights, should now be water under a burning bridge?

Fact is that a majority folks in here have a bit of grudge against Sil and we two aren't the only ones.

As for Sil -
I, too, do not detest him or some sort of that thing.
I don't want to harm him niether to insult him.

BUT,
Sil HAD hurt me.
After Droga and Sil's argue suddenly erupted I tried to calm Sil along with pointing out about Droga's points:
Sil lacks the ability to Play both a DM and a Player. When he tried to interect as the two he made the game somewhat uncorrect. This follow his somewhat narrow listening range. He is uncapable of hearing other peoples thoughts and it gives you the filling that it is all 'his way' albeit I have a bit of a hard time beleiving that.
However, while I tried to responde Sil he threatened me about my (virtual) job as rulez thread keeper which is against the law were it not virtual. This in addition to pretty much a grand PM's chain of insults along with using my personnal life.
Now, I know that we are not suppose to share our life story and all that but at the time that Sil and I worked togheter he asked me something personnal and I considered him a close friend and told him. Only that later on he used that in order to hurt me along with an overfloating threat about rejoining the IFWGs.
Currently he does not wish to speak to me and I ignore his posts but I'm not welcome anymore to IFWGs. Unlike Droga who had quited and left furiously, I was kicked outside and my love for the game is broken beetwen law and wanting.
Tenzhi
12-30-04, 02:29 AM Sil lacks the ability to Play both a DM and a Player.

I would say the same about any DM. It is my opinion that a DM should never be a player in his own game. However, I also think it would be unfair to restrict the GMs from roleplaying in this game, which is also a community of sorts. I feel that as long as Sil shares "ownership" of the game with the other GMs, and none of the GMs (including Sil) run their own PC conflicts, that everything can work out alright.

However, while I tried to responde Sil he threatened me about my (virtual) job as rulez thread keeper which is against the law were it not virtual. This in addition to pretty much a grand PM's chain of insults along with using my personnal life.

I wasn't there for the conversation, and therefore cannot definitively say what went wrong. I will say, however, that I have had several rather boisterous disagreements with Sil during this game. However, as I remained respectful during them so did he, though on several issues we never exactly came to an agreement. I would postulate (and respectfully so, reminding you that I was not privvy to the details of your conversation), therefore, that perhaps the problem stemmed as much from your approach to the discussion as anything.

@Dyne:

I don't agree with how Sil ran some things in the game, either. On the other hand, I also don't entirely agree with how Orcy ran the Arena. I brought my concerns up with each of them, but in the end they were the GMs and it was their call. Had certain players been willing to leave it at that as well, perhaps things would not have escalated as they did. I see plenty of blame to be handed around in the previous incarnation of the game - trying to parcel out said blame to every deserving individual (and every individual's trespasses would have to be addressed lest the effort be seen as vindictive) is counter-productive to the progress of the new incarnation of the game.
NightScreamer20
12-30-04, 02:41 AM I agree, as much as I would to have had the original situation dealt with, bringing it up now is only taking us one step backwards again...
BronzeBeard
12-30-04, 08:06 AM Mayhep, Tenz, but the prolem remains still - I was kicked out. I don't think it is fair. I want my position back.
Silmarien Aldalome
12-30-04, 08:31 AM I agree - it's a retrograde step to indulge these materials. I'm not going to respond to the content of the thread.

Except to say - I expect the reader to approach these materials with a discerning eye. The materials are potentially defamatory - and I can't defend myself without disclosing information that I got in PMs.

stav
WizO_Catoblepas
12-30-04, 08:40 AM Ok, I'm going to close this thread because it is getting a little too personal. However, I will start another thread that addresses concerns for the rules since I do agree that it is helpful for all involved to air concerns with the rules so that the concerns get ironed out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dyne 12-29-04, 04:00 AM	Well, since the WizO's have called for it (and because none of the GM's are online right now), I've created this thread. I hope that no one believes that I am overstepping my bounds. This thread will be used for any complaint that anyone has. This thread was inspired by the flaming during the First IFWG, and this thread has been created to keep it all in one place (and to regulate it better). If you have any complaint or concern, post it here. I think I might do everyone the favor of keeping track of it all in this first post as well.
Dyne 12-29-04, 04:11 AM	I'm sorry that I will be the first person to post a grievance on this thread. My grievance involves the user Silmarien Aldalome. I feel no personal hatred toward Silmarien Aldalome, but I have certain concerns that involve his actions. The are: 1. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has treated several users on several occasions. I feel that Silmarien Aldalome has failed to show these users the respect that they deserved, and that he acted inappropriately toward them, especially as a Game Master of this forum. There are at least 3 users that I feel Silmarien Aldalome has treated unfairly on several occasions. If I am wished to get into more depth, I can describe in-depth why I feel that he has shown disrepect towards these people. 2. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has handled certain in-game concepts. This can be split into several categories. 3. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has acted as a Game Master of the Inter-Foundation War Games on several occasions. 4. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has acted as a Player in the Inter-Foundation War Games on several occasions. 5. I do not approve of the way Silmarien Aldalome has acted as both a Player and a Game Master of the Inter-Foundation War Games on several occasions, in which both positions have overlapped. I feel that he has handled the separation between the two positions rather poorly on several occasions. As I have stated, the above are my general feelings. I can elaborate on exactly which instances have provoked these grievances which I bring before the perusal of posters of the Guild House, as well as the Wizards Online Moderators WizO_Catoblepas and WizO_Shadow. I hope that the above grievances are not perceived as a personal malice in any way. They are real concerns that I have, and that I have the right to express as a human being and as a poster of the Wizards of the Coast Online Message Boards. And they are serious concerns that must be handled to solve certain conflict, as well as to prevent such conflict from happening again.
Tenzhi 12-29-04, 04:38 AM	Query: As this thread is intended for use with the new incarnation of the IFGW, isn't it rather bad form to start it off by bringing up complaints pertaining to the previous incarnation of the IFGW which, by all rights, should now be water under a burning bridge?
Dyne 12-29-04, 03:57 PM	History repeats itself. Unless things are resolved, they are doomed to happen again. If you want to wait until the same junk happens again, then by all means.
BronzeBeard 12-29-04, 07:28 PM	Query: As this thread is intended for use with the new incarnation of the IFGW, isn't it rather bad form to start it off by bringing up complaints pertaining to the previous incarnation of the IFGW which, by all rights, should now be water under a burning bridge? Fact is that a majority folks in here have a bit of grudge against Sil and we two aren't the only ones. As for Sil - I, too, do not detest him or some sort of that thing. I don't want to harm him niether to insult him. BUT, Sil HAD hurt me. After Droga and Sil's argue suddenly erupted I tried to calm Sil along with pointing out about Droga's points: Sil lacks the ability to Play both a DM and a Player. When he tried to interect as the two he made the game somewhat uncorrect. This follow his somewhat narrow listening range. He is uncapable of hearing other peoples thoughts and it gives you the filling that it is all 'his way' albeit I have a bit of a hard time beleiving that. However, while I tried to responde Sil he threatened me about my (virtual) job as rulez thread keeper which is against the law were it not virtual. This in addition to pretty much a grand PM's chain of insults along with using my personnal life. Now, I know that we are not suppose to share our life story and all that but at the time that Sil and I worked togheter he asked me something personnal and I considered him a close friend and told him. Only that later on he used that in order to hurt me along with an overfloating threat about rejoining the IFWGs. Currently he does not wish to speak to me and I ignore his posts but I'm not welcome anymore to IFWGs. Unlike Droga who had quited and left furiously, I was kicked outside and my love for the game is broken beetwen law and wanting.
Tenzhi 12-30-04, 02:29 AM	Sil lacks the ability to Play both a DM and a Player. I would say the same about any DM. It is my opinion that a DM should never be a player in his own game. However, I also think it would be unfair to restrict the GMs from roleplaying in this game, which is also a community of sorts. I feel that as long as Sil shares "ownership" of the game with the other GMs, and none of the GMs (including Sil) run their own PC conflicts, that everything can work out alright. However, while I tried to responde Sil he threatened me about my (virtual) job as rulez thread keeper which is against the law were it not virtual. This in addition to pretty much a grand PM's chain of insults along with using my personnal life. I wasn't there for the conversation, and therefore cannot definitively say what went wrong. I will say, however, that I have had several rather boisterous disagreements with Sil during this game. However, as I remained respectful during them so did he, though on several issues we never exactly came to an agreement. I would postulate (and respectfully so, reminding you that I was not privvy to the details of your conversation), therefore, that perhaps the problem stemmed as much from your approach to the discussion as anything. @Dyne: I don't agree with how Sil ran some things in the game, either. On the other hand, I also don't entirely agree with how Orcy ran the Arena. I brought my concerns up with each of them, but in the end they were the GMs and it was their call. Had certain players been willing to leave it at that as well, perhaps things would not have escalated as they did. I see plenty of blame to be handed around in the previous incarnation of the game - trying to parcel out said blame to every deserving individual (and every individual's trespasses would have to be addressed lest the effort be seen as vindictive) is counter-productive to the progress of the new incarnation of the game.
NightScreamer20 12-30-04, 02:41 AM	I agree, as much as I would to have had the original situation dealt with, bringing it up now is only taking us one step backwards again...
BronzeBeard 12-30-04, 08:06 AM	Mayhep, Tenz, but the prolem remains still - I was kicked out. I don't think it is fair. I want my position back.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-30-04, 08:31 AM	I agree - it's a retrograde step to indulge these materials. I'm not going to respond to the content of the thread. Except to say - I expect the reader to approach these materials with a discerning eye. The materials are potentially defamatory - and I can't defend myself without disclosing information that I got in PMs. stav
WizO_Catoblepas 12-30-04, 08:40 AM	Ok, I'm going to close this thread because it is getting a little too personal. However, I will start another thread that addresses concerns for the rules since I do agree that it is helpful for all involved to air concerns with the rules so that the concerns get ironed out.