Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WizO_Catoblepas 12-20-04, 09:01 AM	Update: OK all, I've been thinking about this since we closed things down. Though I liked the original concept, I'm thinking that (a) it was just a little bit too disorganized and (b) frankly being conducted on the wrong board. So I offer you this option: Why not have all of the foundation come up with (10) characters each to be your "champions" for your foundation. You all can think of what each prize should be for each contest. Then what you can do is have your champions fight each other out on the Core Coleseum. What I would recommend that you do is look over the rules that they have over on the Core Coleseum board and then come up with champions that meet their character sheet. I'll see if I can get some of the GMs over there to hold the matches. That way, there's no question, or even the appearance, of favoritism. Well, think it over, discuss it in your foundations, and let us know in this thread what you think of the concept. The main thing is that simulated combat really needs to be conducted on that board. I'm not against the foundations having healthy competition, but I'm against it if it build up spite an flaming. In the end, taking part in this whole concept isn't worth getting an Official Warn over. If I did my job correctly over the last few days, I'll just say that several people would have gotten Official Warns. However, I want to give everyone here as well as the concept the benefit of the doubt. Think it over and let Shadow and me know. Original Post: *The populace gazes out to the horizon* And lo, what do they see. A figure in a sleigh being led led by one reindeer. No wait: that figure is an attractive Shadow and that's no reindeer - it's a Catoblepas! My, what present do they bring to us this year? Why it's the present of peace! The foundation wars are over and there is going to be a lasting peace! Rejoice! Rejoice! Rejoice! Let's keep the discussion subject to the matter of the threads. If we really want to have combat situations, the best place to hold them is the Core Coleseum. Remember to keep your posts to the subject matter of the thread, not other guests. That's still considered baiting, even on this board. I'll repost this in a thread of its own title and put it on the top of the board.
WizO_Catoblepas 12-21-04, 09:24 PM	*bump*
Demonfey 12-21-04, 09:27 PM	I like it, personally. What about the artifacts, though? Do they still impact at all?
grimclaw 12-21-04, 09:38 PM	I like it.does this esentially mean we role-play here and take the fighting there?Ten champions each,as only me and Gellion even bother with the Human foundation anymore we'll be undermanned.Cool,two against the odds. where do you find the C.C.?I dont travel over the boards much,just here and the occasional comment in the mature boards. ;)
Demonfey 12-21-04, 09:41 PM	Is the mountain top arena still okay, Wizo_Catoblepas? I feel it was one of my better ideas to delay things from reaching this point. Also, what about politics between two foundations?
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-21-04, 10:03 PM	Personally, Orcy would not feel that he had as much ownership of the games, as he is sure many other posters would, if it was on another section. This board is in the games section, Orcy does not see why we cannot have games here. Otherwise, we GMs here are just people who sit back and report bad goings-on. Personally, a more active role in the games is one of the fun parts for Orcy. However, if it is what will be required of us, then Orcy supposes that that is what we will have to do. He can go either way... though he would prefer to keep it here on our boards.
Dyne 12-21-04, 10:27 PM	I've been over to the COre COliseum. It was my understanding that Players would not actually control their characters in combat. Instead, they would post their stats, send a Pit Lord their tactics, and the Pit Lord would act out the battle at home, and post the results. If that's the way it is going to be conducted, it would be rather disappointing. :( P.S. :) Thanks for considering us WizO Cat. It's really appreciated. :)
Silmarien Aldalome 12-22-04, 03:17 AM	I'm not posting any opinion, until I first send this message to W.Cat. After that message has been digested I will return. My first message to wizo_catoblepas is: Your gesture is an act of Grace and it was deeply appreciated. The decision to even engage the concept is received with great warmth. And in many ways the reward is the Grace of the moment, not the form of the Games that may or may not be. It's moments like this, that life becomes inspiring for me, because I am reminded that compassion guides good people's hands in gestures that resussitate faith and care. In many ways, we don't deserve to have a second chance in any form. You are right: our behaviour was a disgrace, and there is nothing that can rush the Atonement. It is in fact, my conscience that asks me to firstly simply celebrate the Clemency we have been shown. My deep and enduring appreciation for your gesture. @Orcy - ya know Orcster+Dyne - Today is a Good Day to Die - and it's WONDERFUL to be batting on the same team. Please, everyone, before going anywhere with your opinions - just send WizO_Catoblepas a gesture of thank you. We *don't* have the power. *He* has the power to decide our fate. Like it or not, and agree with it or not, he has that power. I want us all to learn a lesson in respect - about how to respect people who lead you. In the game mode, GMs do stuff - and you are lead through a game. In the WotC sense, we are kidding ourselves if we think we can't be kicked off these boards for misconduct. We're guests in someone's home. It's only when a WizO misbehaves that we have any come back at them - and on this occasions, our WizO's have shown us great generosity and we have no come back whatsoever. In Prayer In Grace In contrition In on-going Atonement. Learn from our giant blunder. kind regards stav
WizO_Shadow 12-22-04, 10:11 AM	I've been over to the COre COliseum. It was my understanding that Players would not actually control their characters in combat. Instead, they would post their stats, send a Pit Lord their tactics, and the Pit Lord would act out the battle at home, and post the results. If that's the way it is going to be conducted, it would be rather disappointing. :( There is always the www.wizards.com/chat site. There are two pick-up gaming rooms with dice bots that you can use. Just have one person referee(DM) the fight and you state what your character is doing. That way noone has to interpret your character or their actions. You get to do it and improvise and see the dice results. P.S. :) Thanks for considering us WizO Cat. It's really appreciated. :) Yeah, Noble-not-a-cat rocks! Shadowyness
BronzeBeard 12-22-04, 01:50 PM	:thumbsdow bad one Wizo'. I don't want the games to be taken away from here (even more: I don't want them to be banned). I have the same opinion (almost) as Orcy have. There is not much difference in either this forum or that one. Besides, what about the whole foundation (army of some sort) against the other foundations. btw I know that the CoC is probably against it, but shadow - Holy Cow!! What a ******* cool avatar you've fot there.
Dyne 12-22-04, 02:22 PM	I'm not posting any opinion, until I first send this message to W.Cat. After that message has been digested I will return. My first message to wizo_catoblepas is: Your gesture is an act of Grace and it was deeply appreciated. The decision to even engage the concept is received with great warmth. And in many ways the reward is the Grace of the moment, not the form of the Games that may or may not be. It's moments like this, that life becomes inspiring for me, because I am reminded that compassion guides good people's hands in gestures that resussitate faith and care. In many ways, we don't deserve to have a second chance in any form. You are right: our behaviour was a disgrace, and there is nothing that can rush the Atonement. It is in fact, my conscience that asks me to firstly simply celebrate the Clemency we have been shown. My deep and enduring appreciation for your gesture. That's right, Sil. Butter him up. ;)
Dyne 12-22-04, 02:24 PM	btw I know that the CoC is probably against it, but shadow - Holy Cow!! What a ******* cool avatar you've fot there. Ditto. :cool:
jagggar 12-22-04, 02:27 PM	It's kind of odd trying to "save" the game when I've only just arrived a couple of weeks ago, compaired to everyone else, most of whom seem to have been in the games from their start. If the games have to turn into some sort of champion method, I second the request to letting it stay on the boards, in Orcy's arena. Orcy does a great job of making sure the fights are fairly conducted and letting it stay on this board would make it feel like it's still ours. Stav probably is right, that we don't deserve a second chance. I do ask though, if we could discuss what went wrong and what rules could be used in a game like this. It is an excellent concept, and I could even envision an entire message board being dedicated to run such a game. I do believe the game had problems, including those which lead to it needing to be shut down. I don't want to say if we're given another chance we'll be all lovey-dovey, but I do think if given a chance, we can at least figure out where we went wrong and what sort of rules could keep breakdown from happening. (Summary of that paragraph since I feel like it was all over the place: Could we be given the permission to together create a set of rules which we feel the game would've benefited by having in place? Starting another game would a different question which would hopefully include a complete ruleset in the asking.) Full Summary: The idea looks/looked? cool. The game would feel different somewhere else. Orcy kicks butt. There were problems. Another chance isn't really deserved. But can we talk about what we'd do if we had another chance? Could we ask about another chance later, after rules are complete? -disjointedly jagggar
Demonfey 12-22-04, 03:26 PM	It's kind of odd trying to "save" the game when I've only just arrived a couple of weeks ago, compaired to everyone else, most of whom seem to have been in the games from their start. If the games have to turn into some sort of champion method, I second the request to letting it stay on the boards, in Orcy's arena. Orcy does a great job of making sure the fights are fairly conducted and letting it stay on this board would make it feel like it's still ours. Stav probably is right, that we don't deserve a second chance. I do ask though, if we could discuss what went wrong and what rules could be used in a game like this. It is an excellent concept, and I could even envision an entire message board being dedicated to run such a game. I do believe the game had problems, including those which lead to it needing to be shut down. I don't want to say if we're given another chance we'll be all lovey-dovey, but I do think if given a chance, we can at least figure out where we went wrong and what sort of rules could keep breakdown from happening. (Summary of that paragraph since I feel like it was all over the place: Could we be given the permission to together create a set of rules which we feel the game would've benefited by having in place? Starting another game would a different question which would hopefully include a complete ruleset in the asking.) Full Summary: The idea looks/looked? cool. The game would feel different somewhere else. Orcy kicks butt. There were problems. Another chance isn't really deserved. But can we talk about what we'd do if we had another chance? Could we ask about another chance later, after rules are complete? -disjointedly jagggar If I may, the problem with the original idea was that it was a war idea, with no structure and then became chaos as soon as someone decided that someone else had cheated.
NightScreamer20 12-22-04, 03:38 PM	I like the idea of a Dice Bot Chat system thingy. I think it works alot better than having to wait for dice results, then all we do it post the results of the battle on a thread and have everyone look at them. Therefore no one else is involved in the fights and text to text combat won't break out so quickly. However, I also like my idea (I mean of course I like it, it's my idea... but besides...) about having a seperate thread called 'Battlegrounds' in the Guild House. The Thread would be run by a neutral party (my vote for orcy since he's the only other GM), and he would also forsee all going-ons on the boards, being the final word either way. That's just what I think. *shrugs*
BronzeBeard 12-22-04, 04:59 PM	One problem you've got there is that we need rules for mass combat and nationeering rather than 1 on 1 combat. 1 on 1 is pure D&D, what we need is the other part. Fortunatly, I have somewhere around 5 different rule system (from core dnd and non-core) to match the request. Unfourtunatly, I hade been declined and ignored all the way about entering one of the systems because we wanted to create them ourselves along with testing them out. shame.
Dyne 12-22-04, 05:01 PM	One problem you've got there is that we need rules for mass combat and nationeering rather than 1 on 1 combat. 1 on 1 is pure D&D, what we need is the other part. Fortunatly, I have somewhere around 5 different rule system (from core dnd and non-core) to match the request. Unfourtunatly, I hade been declined and ignored all the way about entering one of the systems because we wanted to create them ourselves along with testing them out. shame. You'd be welcome to post them at the Inter-Foundation Exchanges Metathread. I've always wanted to see what those rules were like.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-22-04, 05:05 PM	Hi there W.Shadow - good to see you. I'm very appreciative for your help as well. I'm not against the foundations having healthy competition, but I'm against it if it build up spite an flaming. In the end, taking part in this whole concept isn't worth getting an Official Warn over. It's the central point that I think is really important to re-affirm, before beginning. You're right. Healthy competition is one thing, but spite flaming is another. I was hoping to explore how to work on 'healthy competition' and am curious to explore Jaggar's comments: But can we talk about what we'd do if we had another chance? Could we ask about another chance later, after rules are complete? If I had to guess-timate why traffic returned to the Forum after the Foundations perished a long, slow, agonising (near) death, I would guess that competition brought posters back. I've never had so many PMs in my time here in the last few weeks. My inbox was always (delightfully) full and the innovation and inventiveness that was in both PMs and public posts went up by 700%. On a good day - we were operating on more posts than you'd get on a D&D board! It was fantastic. It was human creativity in action and it was exciting. If I had to try to say or grasp 'what' it was about the system of forces that made it happen - I would guess that it was the place where story-telling meets D&D and Clubs-Memberships that did it. We had fraternity (of a foundation) creativity (story-telling and mythology) competition (merchants guilds, racial guilds, concept guilds, alignment guilds) and melee (like in D&D). The central Arena is important - As a game-concept - I really believe we're onto something great - and something you can't find in other forums. But, we're also at a low-traffic point in the boards, where you really need a winning formula to get engagement. To sum up: we're a nexus point. I'm also guessing that if you split off game-elements by moving aspects (like combat) to other boards - we may perish all over again in 3 months. That's my fear. I also agree with Jagggar in that we don't really deserve another chance, in a way. I mean my apologies and atonements - for my part in what happened. I can't take responsibility for the other posters' parts and portions but I can apologise for my part in what happened. I've had some ideas for some Protections that I offer up for your inspection. Ways of Protecting Threads from Spite Flames 1. Some examples of possible Foundation Codes that you put in the opening post a) We are a Combat Foundation: Y/N b) We are a Foundation that works without Melee or Combat: Y/N b) We want to be Assailed: Y/N d) We want to be part of the Games: Y/N e) We develop products for Sale: Y/N f) We are NPC Foundation: Y/N 2. Clear Rules 3. Protection From Perceived Bias a) Have Second GM on GM-owned threads b) Make sure Second GM knows what thread-keeper's up to 4. A WizO Presence a) Post to the thread when you see a problem brewing to give us a gentle nudge or b) PM the GMs Just some ideas. I offer them in invitation-only and for WizO inspection. Kind Regards stav
Silmarien Aldalome 12-22-04, 05:14 PM	If I may, the problem with the original idea was that it was a war idea, with no structure and then became chaos as soon as someone decided that someone else had cheated. That's pretty much how I see it too, DF. The CORE rules basis we had wasn't enough structure, I would guess - especially when the bold-face is factored in. We had too many game-concepts flying here and there and not enough maturity (excluding you - you're manners are exemplary). Regards stav
BronzeBeard 12-22-04, 05:22 PM	You'd be welcome to post them at the Inter-Foundation Exchanges Metathread. I've always wanted to see what those rules were like. No way! :nonono: Not while Sil is running the show, not after he insulted me in his PMs.
Dyne 12-22-04, 05:23 PM	No way! :nonono: Not while Sil is running the show, not after he insulted me in his PMs. Post them anyway. I don't care what anyone else thinks.
Demonfey 12-22-04, 05:24 PM	That's pretty much how I see it too, DF. The CORE rules basis we had wasn't enough structure, I would guess - especially when the bold-face is factored in. We had too many game-concepts flying here and there and not enough maturity (excluding you - you're manners are exemplary). Regards stav Thank you. I'm able to act like this in high school, too... Anyway, I'm not going to be polite for a minute. WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO REMEMBER IS THAT IT'S JUST A :censored: GAME! STOP GETTING ANGRY AND REMEMBER THAT IT HAS NO EFFECT ON YOUR REAL LIFE, EXCEPT HERE! STOP F***ING FLAMING EACH OTHER, AND TRY AND BE RATIONAL ABOUT THINGS, ALL OF YOU! CHRIST! Sorry, but I had to say it. If anyone is offended, :censored: it, someone had to have the b*lls to say it so bluntly, and censored cursing (to not get kicked out of the forum) tends to get a person's attention.
Dyne 12-22-04, 05:29 PM	Thank you. I'm able to act like this in high school, too... Anyway, I'm not going to be polite for a minute. WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO REMEMBER IS THAT IT'S JUST A :censored: GAME! STOP GETTING ANGRY AND REMEMBER THAT IT HAS NO EFFECT ON YOUR REAL LIFE, EXCEPT HERE! STOP F***ING FLAMING EACH OTHER, AND TRY AND BE RATIONAL ABOUT THINGS, ALL OF YOU! CHRIST! Sorry, but I had to say it. If anyone is offended, :censored: it, someone had to have the b*lls to say it so bluntly, and censored cursing (to not get kicked out of the forum) tends to get a person's attention. Actually, they would already be censored. And it would censor more than one letter at a time. Ahh, sweet bluntness. Better to get whacked upside the head with it than to have your mind fuddled with smooth talk. Thank you for saying it bluntly, Demonfey. We must remember that it is a game. The whole point is not to beat out everyone else, no matter how much you think it is. The whole point is to have an enjoyable experience.
Demonfey 12-22-04, 05:32 PM	Actually, they would already be censored. And it would censor more than one letter at a time. Ahh, sweet bluntness. Better to get whacked upside the head with it than to have your mind fuddled with smooth talk. Thank you for saying it bluntly, Demonfey. We must remember that it is a game. The whole point is not to beat out everyone else, no matter how much you think it is. The whole point is to have an enjoyable experience. I censor my posts the way Comedy Central does: one letter.
BronzeBeard 12-22-04, 05:43 PM	Thank you. I'm able to act like this in high school, too... Anyway, I'm not going to be polite for a minute. WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO REMEMBER IS THAT IT'S JUST A :censored: GAME! STOP GETTING ANGRY AND REMEMBER THAT IT HAS NO EFFECT ON YOUR REAL LIFE, EXCEPT HERE! STOP F***ING FLAMING EACH OTHER, AND TRY AND BE RATIONAL ABOUT THINGS, ALL OF YOU! CHRIST! Sorry, but I had to say it. If anyone is offended, :censored: it, someone had to have the b*lls to say it so bluntly, and censored cursing (to not get kicked out of the forum) tends to get a person's attention. A. I don't believe in J. H. Christ. (go moshe!) B. It's not about gaming but I would like Sil to chill out, especeally after those PMs I've got.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-22-04, 05:43 PM	As long as the bluntness is done in good spirits - it's OK. Well said Demonfey and Dyne. It's got to be fun. Bluntness is OK as long as you're having fun with it. Fun spiritedness is in most of our posters, here. You all are really good natured and know how to lose. Losing is a skill - and you all know how to respect By the way everyone, does anyone yet have any idea which of my avatars is at the Guild of Evil? The Regulars in the IG posting flurry - Chaos Evoker, Demonfey, Dyne, Xen, Gel, Tenzhi, Ang, Lady Rondilin, Redhaze, Turalisj, Frostbite_Ravenheart, Aramar, Grimclaw, and at least 5 or 10 others have all been very active contributors to the Foundation activity. You're regular and many posts are very much appreciated. regards stav
Demonfey 12-22-04, 05:50 PM	As long as the bluntness is done in good spirits - it's OK. Well said Demonfey and Dyne. It's got to be fun. Bluntness is OK as long as you're having fun with it. Fun spiritedness is in most of our posters, here. You all are really good natured and know how to lose. Losing is a skill - and you all know how to respect By the way everyone, does anyone yet have any idea which of my avatars is at the Guild of Evil? The Regulars in the IG posting flurry - Chaos Evoker, Demonfey, Dyne, Xen, Gel, Tenzhi, Ang, Lady Rondilin, Redhaze, Turalisj, Frostbite_Ravenheart, Aramar, Grimclaw, and at least 5 or 10 others have all been very active contributors to the Foundation activity. You're regular and many posts are very much appreciated. regards stav @Sil: The Karse stone Beast named Paradox. I mentioned that I knew it before. Also, my bluntness right there was something that needed to be said after everyone let their emotions get too strong about a game and let themselves hurt others because of a little game. It needed to be said, before anything new happened, and to try and keep tempers in check. @Bronzebeard: No offense meant, Bronzebeard. Christ is just one of those few words that people can say when they are truly frustrated and get away with and have no one really pester them about it.
Dyne 12-22-04, 05:50 PM	Well, I know your avatar isn't Lady Rolindin, because: A. She's not a member of the GoUE. B. You've misspelled her SN everytime you've used it. I don't think it's redhase either, since you always seem to misspell it too, but it might be. My guess would be Xen155. EDIT: Wait, the Karse Stone? I thought he meant another username. I always expected the Karse Stone to be a trap since he introduced it to the GoUE. P.S. There's no reason to drag Christ into this.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-22-04, 05:55 PM	Well, I know your avatar isn't Lady Rolindin, because: A. She's not a member of the GoUE. B. You've misspelled her SN everytime you've used it. I don't think it's redhase either, since you always seem to misspell it too, but it might be. :rofl: Not the Karsestone Creature - that one's a transparent presence. Designed to up the power output of the baddies and to make the good guyz sweat!! :devil: It's another Avatar - none of you have got it yet *grins* keep an eye out for him (there you go, that limits it some - being a male avatar). I try to make him sound "un-sil-ish" so, I've been successful if you don't know who it is!! stav
Demonfey 12-22-04, 05:58 PM	Well, I know your avatar isn't Lady Rolindin, because: A. She's not a member of the GoUE. B. You've misspelled her SN everytime you've used it. I don't think it's redhase either, since you always seem to misspell it too, but it might be. My guess would be Xen155. Who has quit the GoUE IG before, and who has made a new character? Chaosevoker. Of course, this could just be a new game...and of course, there is Aseir...
BronzeBeard 12-22-04, 06:03 PM	@Bronzebeard: No offense meant, Bronzebeard. Christ is just one of those few words that people can say when they are truly frustrated and get away with and have no one really pester them about it. No offense taken and never really did.
ChaosEvoker 12-22-04, 06:13 PM	Nope, I'm not Sil, and I know Xen155 isn't either, we go to teh same high school, if you check the history of the DMF in the DMF Artifact corner (in my sig) you'd know. anyway, my guess would be DROGA!!!
Dyne 12-22-04, 06:18 PM	Who has quit the GoUE IG before, and who has made a new character? Chaosevoker. Of course, this could just be a new game...and of course, there is Aseir... Are you accusing ME?! :censored: :rant: :headexplo :banghead: :ahem:
Demonfey 12-22-04, 06:28 PM	Are you accusing ME?! :censored: :rant: :headexplo :banghead: :ahem: Why didn't you accuse me, then? For all you know, I could be a cunning form of Sil in the threads. In any case, my point is that since Gurney was a spy, anyone else could be a spy too. This is not the right place to talk of this, though. @all: I have given my thoughts on the game. I am done in this thread, and will stop posting here unless something interesting catches my eye in this conversation.
Dyne 12-22-04, 06:53 PM	I didn't accuse you because you're more like Sil than Sil is. :uh-huh: I bet it's Thasis.
Gellion 12-22-04, 06:54 PM	I doubt it is Thasis, I have seen him at threads and forums Sil never frequents. But that could be Sil trying to trick us!!!!!!! :eek:
Demonfey 12-22-04, 06:55 PM	I didn't accuse you because you're more like Sil than Sil is. :uh-huh: I bet it's Thasis. Talk about it in the GoUE, please. And what the hell do you mean?
Silmarien Aldalome 12-22-04, 10:11 PM	Even though it was a bit off-topic ( :embarrass: ) - it was a really warm lift to my day to see you at it with good spirits. I know you guyz have what it takes to keep the place sound and sane. I've got one addendum: We had a sudden influx of new arrivals - and, I guess that means there's the learning curve about the CoC that was involved. Took me about six months to understand what the CoC even was! I didn't know what all this stuff about "flaming" was - and to tell you the truth, I still am a bit vague about "trolling" and I've gone thru another learning curve about "baiting". I can also remember staring cross-eyed at all the pull down menus and being very confused about what it all meant. Nowadayz, I've got a better mind for the CoC and pull-downs - but I'm still learning too. My theory is - that you've all (including me tooz) have just gone thru a jump in awareness about the CoC - and that if we have a quorum of posters to manage the new comers - we can work as a group to ensure that new arrivals go thru a "cultural learning" phase. That is - if we can work together to help the newcomers come to terms with the rules - that might be another protective factor. Summary of possible Protective Factors - to stop Spite Flames 1. Develop clear rules. 2. Good codification of Foundation's opening posts (as per post prior) 3. A WizO presence to 'nudge' the threads. 4. Protection agains Perceived Bias (a newly researched 9th level Spell - cast by desperate posters trying with all their hearts to save the Forum - see post prior) *prayers* 5. A solid crew of posters who've just gone thru a mega-learning curve by way of a giant mistake. The "Goose Factor" 6. The presence of a good group of good-natured posters, where the majority are good people with friendly spirits (the "cultural learning" hypothesis). 7. Everyone's going thru a giant leap in awareness about what's at stake when we behave badly All that aside - the mystery Avatar - no-one's got it yet! (But we should discuss it at GoE) I wanted to reassure posters that we want the Evil Ones to have access to magic and power - and to reassure you all that it really is no fun if all teams don't have a chance. A story is not fun or interesting if the good guys always win - and it's especially boring if they win without a struggle. The Karsestone Creature (Paradox) was Gifted as a powerful force. By the Lady Mystra herself - wrested from Shar - and brought *back into* Realmspace. I'm not on any one team - I'm on all your teams - and I'm proud of all of you. Regards stav
Dyne 12-22-04, 10:21 PM	I'm not on any one team - I'm on all your teams - and I'm proud of all of you. Really? I thought you were on the half-elf team. Anyway, it has been stated countless times what needs to be corrected. If we just say the same thing over and over again, nothing will get done. It's time to actually work out those solid rules. No more dwelling on it. There is much to be done and not enough patience to get it all done at this rate. Last time, everyone jumped the gun because they were tired of waiting such a long time. Let's not make that same mistake.
jagggar 12-23-04, 02:07 PM	Can't be as off topic a some of the posts now, but it may be. Stav, what do you mean by 1.f.? "We are NPC Foundation"?
thasis 12-23-04, 03:31 PM	I hate the idea and I want nothing to do with it. It takes away many role-playing opurtnitys and turns the war into a mindless battle. I will have no part of it.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-23-04, 03:47 PM	Hi there thasis. The passion in your post for RP comes thru thasis. Many people will share your wish for that aspect of the games, and we can only hope and pray that the outcome goes the way you seek. Can't be as off topic a some of the posts now, but it may be. Stav, what do you mean by 1.f.? "We are NPC Foundation"? Hi there Jagggar, I had the DMs Foundation in mind when I put 1.f) together. Erm, like when your DM introduces you to new identities and new characters, and no-one knows what level they are, or what they're in the world for. Mystery guests. I.e. I'm imagnining that there will be some avatars (and their threads) who may be acting in a predominantly DM kinda role (verus more PC role). Those avatars & threads may not be taking part in "PC exchanges" but, instead, may be contributing to the world's socio-political landscape, geography, superstructure and so on. Also, Anglar, who runs the Underdark thread and the Blue (or was it red) family thread were two examples of this. regards stav
BronzeBeard 12-23-04, 06:01 PM	Notice how Sil's just ignored me. So, I guess I'm not wanted here anymore. Anyone else you'de like to kick from your wonder world Sil? Notice: The only reason for me to be so rude is because Sil kicked me out, I don't want out but he's a GM and I respect his decision to kick me via a very well phrased PM. Have a :cookie: Sil. :allalone:
NightScreamer20 12-24-04, 04:25 AM	Look I've said it once and I will say it again: 1. Not to actually fight on the Foundation threads themselves, in my opinion this created too much confusion and flooding on that thread for one thing. I mean the HEF was a MESS afterwards, and we can't have that happen to any other Foundation. For another it more or less halted any other going ons in the Foundation itself. For this I hereby introduce the idea of a Battleground Thread, a Sticky created by a WizO would be the best choice. Plus it means we get to keep those WizOs on their toes. 2. I have clamed down alot sicne what happened at the HEF and no longer have any real strong feelings towards Sil. I mean I know he's a GM and he's created a very fantastic world and storyline for us to play upon, but it's hard to have the creator be a player and have everyone think it's fair. As long as Sil runs the battles (the rest of the game I'm ok with of course) people WILL gripe and complain about an unfair factor. I myself could never do this, I could never run a game and try to be a part of it because I already know things and no matter what happens I know... and it just makes the game seem... blah. I believe that the battles themselves should be moderated (judged/refereed) by a 3rd and neutral party, whoever that may be. It would be best to get a WizO on the case, however they are very busy. For this action I introduce the idea of have the GM known as Orcy the Green Wonder moderate the battle himself. He has moderated and controlled the MTA (Mountain Top Arena) for a while now with little disturbance. Making his word the final and decisive voice would suit everyone better. **my back hurts... not that that's important but hey...** 3. Each foundation should choose 1 representative or a pinnacle of their Foundations triumphs, or rather the 'Ruler' of said foundation. These representatives will be the ones controlling the masses of warring flavorful NPCs that really take no part in the battle themselves, but give it a 'kick' into the graphicness of the war. For this I introduce the idea that Foundation Champions will be assigned (1 per Foundation). These Champions will be in direct contact with the Judge at all times. they will be the ONLY ones to make drastic commentary or talk OOG @ all on the Battlegrounds. 4. Last but not least, I have my own idea of how battle should be played out. The Arena rules have worked fine for battle, however this is definately different than an arena battle therefore... I introduce the following rules of battle: Only 1v1, 2v1, and 2v2 combat will be allowed. Multiple members ganging up on the same fighter is unfair, even if it is a war. 1v1 combat is mostly encouraged, but if you can't find someone to 'team' up with then that's where the rest of the battling comes in. I would also like to say that people should announce who they intend on attacking next, I don't know if this is fair but I dunno I just thought it's something I'd do. Ya know, blasting soemone while they're fighting someone else... These are ideas that I'm introducing into the mix. I find them fair and reasonable, and I hope Sil does too.
Silmarien Aldalome 12-24-04, 06:41 PM	Merry Christmas everyone. May your festive season be filled with happiness, joy and goodwill. A particularly big thank-you to WizO Catoblepas and WizO Shadow who I'm very grateful to. Thank you for helping to keep the boards sane and safe. @WizOs I'm still unclear about what trolling is. I'm better in my awareness of Baiting. And strongest in my understanding of Flaming. I was hoping one or both of you could post a small, succinct definition of Trolling Baiting Flaming Regards stav
Gellion 12-24-04, 07:10 PM	Merry Christmas everyone. May your festive season be filled with happiness, joy and goodwill. A particularly big thank-you to WizO Catoblepas and WizO Shadow who I'm very grateful to. Thank you for helping to keep the boards sane and safe. @WizOs I'm still unclear about what trolling is. I'm better in my awareness of Baiting. And strongest in my understanding of Flaming. I was hoping one or both of you could post a small, succinct definition of Trolling Baiting Flaming Regards stav Trolling is poasting an inflammatory post to get a lot of people upset and into an arguement. Usually the Troll never responds to the post. Flaming is just when you insult someone. Now, even I cant really explain what Baiting is, I think it is when you do not directly call someone, or a group in a forum out, but you say what you say in such a way that they will respond to your post, and sais post is almost always an inflammatory post towards that person.
Dyne 12-24-04, 07:11 PM	Merry Christmas everyone. May your festive season be filled with happiness, joy and goodwill. A particularly big thank-you to WizO Catoblepas and WizO Shadow who I'm very grateful to. Thank you for helping to keep the boards sane and safe. @WizOs I'm still unclear about what trolling is. I'm better in my awareness of Baiting. And strongest in my understanding of Flaming. I was hoping one or both of you could post a small, succinct definition of Trolling Baiting Flaming Regards stav There's a dictionary somewhere on the boards (I think it's called Trollbill's Dictionary) that defines all such terms, as well as spelling out what all the abbreviations mean. I'll dig it up for a quick definition. From Trollbill's Dictionary of Terminology (in the D&D General forum): Flame (verb): To reply to a post in a highly critical, derogatory and/or inflammatory manner. Flame War (noun): A thread that has degenerated into mostly pointless flames and counter-flames; sometimes also flamefest. Flame Warrior (noun): A participant in a flame war. Troll (verb): To post a controversial or inflammatory statement on a message board for the express purpose of generating outraged replies. Etymology: Fishing, derived as a pun from the fishing practice of trailing a lure or baited hook from a moving boat. Troll (noun), 1: (considered derogatory) A person who trolls. 2: In game terms, a large, vicious green humanoid with regenerative capabilities. There doesn't seem to be an entry for "baiting."
Dyne 12-25-04, 12:45 PM	So what's gonna happen to the games? Are we allowed to discuss it at the metathread to try to straighten some things out? Will Orcy's Mountain Top Arena still be allowed to be used?
Orcy The Green Wonder 12-25-04, 01:06 PM	Orcy has been informed by the WizOs that it will likely not be decided until after the holidays. So it may be between now and new years, but don't count on it.
Dyne 12-25-04, 01:14 PM	:weep: :raincloud I hope they let us keep it.
BronzeBeard 12-25-04, 06:32 PM	I hope they'll decide fast. I can't keep myself up :tantrum:
Dyne 12-26-04, 12:13 AM	I can't sleep... can't think... come back to me, IFWG! :weep: (random irony depicting a person who is addicted to the concept of the Guild Wars to the point that he has become an insomniac and a constant lurker of the forums) (sorry, irony helps me through things more easily)
NightScreamer20 12-27-04, 12:31 AM	If anything jsut keep the Arena open. That's jsut fun and doesn't seem to cause much damage, it's where people solve their rivalries (if any) fair and square. Not to mention it's the best place to get frustration out. ^_^
Dyne 12-28-04, 01:02 AM	There have never been any problems at the Arena. Orcy has handled it really well. I don't see why it can't be open. :(
Silmarien Aldalome 12-28-04, 09:41 PM	Hi there WizO Shadow and WizO Catoblepas, My hopes you both had a wonderful & merry Christmas. (We did here - not as hot as normal - only 90 degrees). Just wanting to add, that we only have a small proportion of posting representation on this thread. Many posters prefer not to directly post their opinions - for various reasons: some are about shyness, for example. So, just a quick note to say I've have had lots of advice, lamenting the loss of what we had - they loved the idea of trans-foundation exchanges at people's home Foundations. Some of the posters who've been really well behaved haven't said a boo - but they're with us in spirit. Also some URLs: Here's our 5000th Post Post Celebrations at the HEF - it's something I wanted to share (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5130948#post=5130948) And And Page 20 of Meta Thread has made some real progress (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5131371#post5131371) Regards to both of you stav
NightScreamer20 12-29-04, 01:39 AM	Well ask them to Sil, it would be nice to have everyone's opinion... It all seems like one voice so far and I just don't think that seems fair, do you guys?
Dyne 12-29-04, 01:41 AM	What does "pa" mean? And I'm not sure what you mean.
Bait the Bard 12-29-04, 03:03 AM	What does "pa" mean? And I'm not sure what you mean. PA is 'personal assistant ;) And what I think he's saying is that there is only kind of one person who veiws are being listened too, or something like that.
NightScreamer20 12-29-04, 03:06 AM	close enough, I'm gunna edit it out because someone pointed out to me that it seems more along the lines of [passive aggressive] which could just be taken as rude. So sicne it's not aggressive I'll just edit it out.
Kingside_Bishop 01-04-05, 02:04 AM	I just stumbled upon this board by sheer luck -- I was reading some post by Wiz_O Cat (a post I normally wouldn't have caught, except it happened to be on the headlines page), and I saw the link leading here in his sig. So here I am, a newbie as of today, but a very interested and motivated newbie. I'd like to help in any way that I can. This idea sounds really cool, and I'd really like to be a part of it. So, here's my input. Has anyone read the Birthright rules? Because there are some things that could very easily be lifted from there, directly to here, with very little work and great results (from what I can tell, which is based off of a limited knowledge pool, I know). The Birthright Campaign Setting is based around the PCs as rulers (as opposed to adventurers, as in other D&D settings). The PCs can rule guilds, temples, magical source powers, and law holdings. Each type of holding can do different functions at different levels of efficiency. There's an entire system for this interaction between these "holdings" (of the law, guild, temple, and source types). When war is called for, there's also a system for that in which NPCs play the soldiers, and PCs act as heroes, adding bonuses to units to which they're attached. There are systems for fortifications, espionage, sabotage, etc. The rules run similar to a strategy game -- there are resources. Gold Bars (GBs) represent monetary compensation and Regent Points (RPs) represent competency as a ruler/guildmaster/head priest/whatever. Furthermore, the rules are turn based -- perfect for a message boards game like this. Combat could be dealt with in a chat room, as has been suggested, or could be dealt with in a seperate thread with only a little more trouble. The Birthright Campaign Setting can be found here (http://www.birthright.net/archive.php). After clicking on the link, look to the left side of the newly loaded site. There will be a menu -- set your mouse over "Downloads," then click on the third selection -- "BRCS d20 Playtest." Download the file, then unzip it. The chapters we are concerned with are Chapters 5 and 6 -- "Ruling a Domain" and "Armies and Warfare," respectively, as well as certain parts of Chapter 1, "Characters" for Regency Point collection by certain character classes. I apologize if I sound over-zealous, or if I perhaps came onto the scene too strongly. But I'm an ardent fan of the Birthright system, and think that it would really impose the structure that you guys (or we, if you accept me) are looking for.
Silmarien Aldalome 01-04-05, 03:14 AM	I believe in providence. Thank you for the post. I've downloaded and had a look at chapters five and six as you suggested. @All The rules are very lengthy - but their core elements can be summarised pretty easily and those concepts aren't so dissimilar to the notion of "Foundation Actions" we have looked at earlier, and the overall architecture isn't that dissimilar to how we layered our own "Version 1 Version" - with "three levels of actions - PC/Foundation/Sovereign/Divine". There were some new features, like the table for "Random Monthly Events" which would keep things going if people needed a nudge. And their were other strata: more complicated rules for socio-economic things, like nobility and royalty. I'll try resussitating some of our earlier ideas, and then put them to a vote. @Kingside_Bishop, Thank you for taking the time to write the post up - and to post the URL and then to describe the instructions for the download. Thank you
Kingside_Bishop 01-04-05, 11:12 AM	Thanks for responding so quickly. I thought you guys might have already come up with a system similar to Birthright (I mean, you would have to). I'm curious about it. Could you maybe provide a link to the thread where you guys discussed this? It's probably in that metathread, but that thread is quite large. Could someone provide me with some directions, please? Thanks. And for reference, Kingside_Bishop is a little lengthy. You can just call me KB. Also, I posted a new thread to the main page, unknowing that I wasn't supposed to do that. I apologize, and thank Orcy for pointing it out to me.
Orcy The Green Wonder 01-04-05, 12:18 PM	Ah, the rules. Well... Orcy would have to say that they are still under development. We had a first go at it with a set of loose rules, but that didn't work too well. So currently the rules are being developed (at the metathread). Feel free to pop in and comment, theres some ideas floating around to chat about. Orcy wishes he could point you to a rules thread, but currently there isnt one (for the new set of rules). There should be once we have everything worked out.
Demonfey 01-04-05, 03:35 PM	I have recieved the go ahead to start another character thread if Dyne doesn't return by tomorrow from Catoblepas. I didn't mention it at first, since it was supposed to wait a week. Please let me start it on my own, and unlock the first Player character thread so that people can get any old characters they had if they want to. Tomorrow, I will start and explain what I will do.
Silmarien Aldalome 01-04-05, 04:54 PM	I have recieved the go ahead to start another character thread if Dyne doesn't return by tomorrow from Catoblepas. I didn't mention it at first, since it was supposed to wait a week. Please let me start it on my own, and unlock the first Player character thread so that people can get any old characters they had if they want to. Tomorrow, I will start and explain what I will do. Wo - hang on a sec. Can you PM me and Orcy both with your thinking, before anything at all happens. It's important to keep us in the loop, DF. It was very important to mention it to us, in a PM, but not publicly. Also - a week isn't enough, in my thinking (sometimes people calm down a bit slower) :) In any case, we'll look forwards to hearing from you in a GMs-Demonfey PM and we'll nut something out together. regards stav
Demonfey 01-04-05, 06:56 PM	Wo - hang on a sec. Can you PM me and Orcy both with your thinking, before anything at all happens. It's important to keep us in the loop, DF. It was very important to mention it to us, in a PM, but not publicly. Also - a week isn't enough, in my thinking (sometimes people calm down a bit slower) :) In any case, we'll look forwards to hearing from you in a GMs-Demonfey PM and we'll nut something out together. regards stav Sorry. I didn't know who to tell, or even who to ask about starting this thread. :embarrass I'll send it to you and Orcy as soon as I get it into a coherent plan. I'm holding off for a couple weeks at least, to give those in charge a head start on deciding what level we should be at.
Tenzhi 01-04-05, 07:35 PM	Also - a week isn't enough, in my thinking (sometimes people calm down a bit slower) :) It's actually more than enough. Having a person in a position of responsibility who is likely to drop off for a week+ at a time because they got a bee in their bonnet is a bad idea.
Xen155 01-04-05, 10:04 PM	Sorry if this is off topic but I must know! What was that thing Anglar did with the murders. Is that gonna carry over to the new war?
BronzeBeard 01-05-05, 01:48 AM	Thanks for responding so quickly. I thought you guys might have already come up with a system similar to Birthright (I mean, you would have to). I'm curious about it. Could you maybe provide a link to the thread where you guys discussed this? It's probably in that metathread, but that thread is quite large. Could someone provide me with some directions, please? Thanks. And for reference, Kingside_Bishop is a little lengthy. You can just call me KB. Also, I posted a new thread to the main page, unknowing that I wasn't supposed to do that. I apologize, and thank Orcy for pointing it out to me. Sorry, but I'm not allowed to write the rulez since guyz here 'want to make them themselves'.
Shard of Suzail 01-30-05, 01:34 PM	It has been some time since i have visited the Guild House boards. A long while back I used to post in the Dungeon Master's Foundation, which was basically a place where D and D GM's put good ideas and talked things over. Back then, however, a few folks in charge ended up getting the thread closed, largely as they wanted "ranks" and the option of forbidding members from those ranks. I never liked any of that, for as far as i was concerned, it was just a place to put ideas and discuss them, with no poster needing authority for anything. The Dungeon Master's foundation was shut down for just those things. It wasnt a very complex affair and it wasnt helped by some of the members being rather foolish. However, the thread wasnt very complicated and didnt have any other purpose other than to share ideas. Thus, a simple thread tripped on the rules and was lost. I come back here, many moons later and find that the whole board has seemingly turned into a monstrously complicated competitive wargame, with sides, positions, ranks and points scores. Add a touch of argument and it's a wonder that the whole board hasnt been stripped down to the bare bones and restarted. The original purpose of these boards was not to have any of this complication and other boards, as has been said, like the Colliseum, exist for fighting and competitive character stuff. This board was meant to be a set of clubs for people of like mind to share ideas and promote good things in their games. You would do very well to learn from what happened to the DM's Foundation thread. If you continue to try and make the Guilds into something they are not, then all of your work and efforts will have been wasted.
Kingside_Bishop 01-30-05, 07:20 PM	It has been some time since i have visited the Guild House boards. A long while back I used to post in the Dungeon Master's Foundation, which was basically a place where D and D GM's put good ideas and talked things over. Back then, however, a few folks in charge ended up getting the thread closed, largely as they wanted "ranks" and the option of forbidding members from those ranks. I never liked any of that, for as far as i was concerned, it was just a place to put ideas and discuss them, with no poster needing authority for anything. The Dungeon Master's foundation was shut down for just those things. It wasnt a very complex affair and it wasnt helped by some of the members being rather foolish. However, the thread wasnt very complicated and didnt have any other purpose other than to share ideas. Thus, a simple thread tripped on the rules and was lost. I come back here, many moons later and find that the whole board has seemingly turned into a monstrously complicated competitive wargame, with sides, positions, ranks and points scores. Add a touch of argument and it's a wonder that the whole board hasnt been stripped down to the bare bones and restarted. The original purpose of these boards was not to have any of this complication and other boards, as has been said, like the Colliseum, exist for fighting and competitive character stuff. This board was meant to be a set of clubs for people of like mind to share ideas and promote good things in their games. You would do very well to learn from what happened to the DM's Foundation thread. If you continue to try and make the Guilds into something they are not, then all of your work and efforts will have been wasted.Actually, it's already fallen apart once, or so I've heard. We're trying to implement some new rules for this evolution in this board's purpose, so that doesn't happen again. It may have started out as a board just for clubs, but the desire is there for something more. The Core Coliseum is exactly what you say it is -- character to character competition. Here, in addition to the club idea (which remains in place), we're trying to create an environment where clubs can interact in a statistical framework (peacefully as well as combativelly) -- a role that no other board at this moment fills. In such a statistical framework, those things that caused the DM's Foundation to fall apart would be supported. Therefore, we should learn a lesson from the DM's Foundations -- but that lesson is not that we shouldn't try to evolve the purpose of this board into something it wasn't originally intended as. The lesson is to create a solid framework for this new evolution, so that it does not collapse (as the DM's Foundation did). The purpose of the DMs foundation was to talk about DM stuff, to throw around ideas. When it tried to evolve into a statistical body, it fell apart because there was no support fro such a shift. We want to create support for that shift. It is up to individual foundations to decide whether to take advantage of the support or not, whether or not to take part in the "Guild Wars." So, the orignal purpose of the board will remain -- we'll just have another project going on at the same time.
Droga 01-31-05, 12:42 AM	Actually the DMs foundation fell apart because the leader refused to listen to board rules. He figured he could ignore them and argued about how he should be able to do something he couldnt. Or something like that. Then came back later ranting about how nobody should be on these boards and they should follow him. Ya know, childish crap like "I don't get me way so you must be wrong." Yes, I've done it, so don't mention it, you know who you are.
Kingside_Bishop 01-31-05, 08:40 AM	Actually the DMs foundation fell apart because the leader refused to listen to board rules. He figured he could ignore them and argued about how he should be able to do something he couldnt. Or something like that. Then came back later ranting about how nobody should be on these boards and they should follow him. Ya know, childish crap like "I don't get me way so you must be wrong." Yes, I've done it, so don't mention it, you know who you are.Noted. Someone said something like that on the meta-thread, too.
alaron 01-31-05, 12:23 PM	I had a little idea. combat though often sponanious due to angered idiots, and drunks. would like to point out that this thread started out dealing with how to resolve combat on these boards. I have two simple ideas. 1) start a thread dedicated to combat in the IFGW. a. problems could include i.) This would test the honor of the players. ii.) There would need to be a standardized RNG. iii.) only one thread and lots of possible combatants iv.) The combat could get lost amongs the other threads b. Benefits of this system, and remedies to the issues above. i.) The people I have met on this board have been veyr nice, so using the honor system should be no problem. ii.) A standard RNG is easy to come by I even think there is a recomended one for these boards. iii.) Have each person as the title use the names of the person they attack and there own name. iv.)the players would feel more involved since they are immediatly involved the the characters actions. v.) This thread couyld be a sticky so it does not get lost amongst the guild discussions 2) Orcy wants to be more involved so why not use Orcys colliseum. a. Problems i.) Not all combat is planed. ii.) There are limits to what Orcy allows in his colliseum. b. Benefits i.) Players would not need to leave this thread ii.) Orcy gets more involved I personally favor number one, but there are probably issues that I do not see yet; let the discussions continue.
Xen155 03-21-05, 09:22 PM	Though I disagree with the esteemed Shard on her opnion of the DMG I agree on one point with her, the Guilds and the IFGW, if there is to be a Guild War game, should remain as simple as possible. As a side note: The DMG has been reformed into the GMF (Game Masters Foundation) and has moved to its own hosted forum on EnWorld.org, It is still a place to share Ideas and get them, we have many contributing members (42!) and would like to see more. The GMF. (http://www.enworld.org/forumdisplay.php?f=210)
boschdevil 03-21-05, 10:04 PM	Xen: Just thought you mwould like to know - Just out of curiousity I clicked on your link. However, I got the following message: Your administrator has required a password to access this forum. Please enter this password now. Note: This requires cookies! Just thought you would like to know.
Xen155 03-21-05, 10:32 PM	A password you say?!?!?! Mhmmmm. I know! For anyone intrested the password is: olsen Thanks Boschdevil!
ChaosEvoker 04-05-05, 03:39 PM	*apeares wreathed in green fire wearing a pin that says "GMF: The Game Master's Foundation" and looks around with eyes made solely of bright green light nods and shakes his head then disappears in a flash of green fire* The Game Master's Foundation serving you from enworld.org (http://www.enworld.org)