1001 Alternate Magic Systems [Archive] - Wizards Community

1001 Alternate Magic Systems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Scalamander
10-10-06, 12:40 AM Alright, I am pretty damn sure that we're not gonna get up to 1001 or anywhere close to that. What this is just a jumping off point for any new ideas that could facilitate the creation of a new magic system. I'll start by listing the ones that we already have.

1. The boring old vancian magic system. Nothing like spending 8 hours researching your spell only to forget it as soon as its cast. This includes prepared and spontaneous unless anyone can divide that further.

2. Point system. A la psionics and spell point systems

3. Skill based magic. This is where the check to cast more spells increases with every spell you cast. The truenamer from TOM would be an example.

4. Limited Uses or Abilities. You have a certain amount of powers that can be used a certain number of times per day based on level. Like the shadowcaster or feats.

5. Unlimited uses. You get a few spells and just keep blasting away with them. An example here would be the warlock and his incantations.

Now for any new ideas;

6. A caster that gets his power or uses per day from absorbing the magic of others around him. Could be based on spell levels or points.

7. Charging. A caster could know a few spells that were based around having to charge them up over a certain number of rounds to gain effects, maybe in specific areas to gain specific results. Some sort of elementalist maybe?
Khandar
10-10-06, 02:42 AM I want to design a Ritual Magic system that requires lots of time, specific material, verbal, and somatic components, certain conditions that must be met, and spell effects that are less flashy and more like "real world" magic (voodoo, anyone?)
Rhialto
10-10-06, 06:53 AM Item 6 on your list is more or less the orc system that GW uses.

Orc shamen/psions gain spell points only while near other orcs. This continues to accumulate, and the caster risks a headbang (as painful as it sounds) unless he either uses ithe energy for casting or purposely drains himself of that energy.
polt
10-10-06, 10:51 AM There's an alternate system in my sig.
rydi123
10-10-06, 11:04 AM the starwars d20 system isnt too bad (not extremely fond of it for starwars though; ironic, no?).

you have a governing skill, and each use of a power drains hp.
Cherubaddon
10-10-06, 11:19 PM I want to design a Ritual Magic system that requires lots of time, specific material, verbal, and somatic components, certain conditions that must be met, and spell effects that are less flashy and more like "real world" magic (voodoo, anyone?)

Sweet! I was looking for such a system for sooo long! (I am really bad at inventing this kind of stuff, and the incantations from Unearthed Arcana are too few). I would be grateful if you could just send me a message as soon as you made it up with a link to the thread.
Good luck with it!
Vashwood
10-10-06, 11:42 PM There's also the Call of Cthulu casting system. No spell slots or spell points, and anyone can learn magic. Every time you learn a spell, you lose permanent points of Sanity, and casting spells causes Sanity damage. Though, it goes without saying that the Sanity variant is a requirement for this casting system.
SageBahamut
10-11-06, 05:57 PM Then there's the Wheel of Time system, which is all about powers known, though I believe you can use them at will. If not then this is a sort of Vancian-light.

I also like (to reiterate) the Grim Tales rules. Anyone can cast spells but if you aren't trained (i.e. having the Talents) it eats you alive. But you can do it at will if you're either skilled or reckless.
Patrick Draken-Korin
10-12-06, 11:57 AM Here's something I came up with, though I never got anything together for it;

Concentration Casting: A caster has a concentration capacity that it ocupies with different effects. The caster either continually maintains concentration on an effect or temporaily occupies it's concentration to activate an instantaneous effect. Concentration casting MUST be spontaneous.

Tom has 8 points of concentration (level 8?). He currently occupies 2 points with a mage armor effect, 2 points with a resistance bonus effect, and has 4 unoccupied points of concentration. Tom is in a fight against gnolls; he takes his turn to cast melf's acid arrow (requiring 4 points to do so). On tom's next turn, because the gnolls are grouped together, he dismisses his resistance effect, and casts fireball (6 points).

Concentration casting allows concentration-cost modifying effects in the same manner that spell points/psionic does, except that the caster's concentration is merely occupied rather than expended.

I'm not sure how hard it would be to control concentration casting. Off hand I think it would be pretty broken if applied to D&D. The variability would mean that they'd have to have as few abilities as the warlock. Probably, the best system should be based around 3.5 psionics; concentration points equal caster level (or 2x caster level) + ability modifier, limited spells known, can enhance spell by occupying more concentration.

I posted this on a previous thread of a similar vein, here's a link if you care to look it over; Mystical Abilities thread, Remake (new and used caster systems) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=604315)
Xavon
10-12-06, 08:07 PM Guild Wars Style: Low MP but they recharge quckly; no spell levels, each spell is tied to a skill, the higher the skill the stronger the spell

Modular Magic: Instead of complete spells, casters know spell fragments, which they can combine on the fly to create spells. Like the Fire fragement does 1d4 per caster level to a single target at close range. And the sphere fragment that increases the range and area of effect. Can work as either Vancian levels or Spell Points.
Iabes_Q_c_a_Mahorella
10-20-06, 09:58 PM Modular Magic: Instead of complete spells, casters know spell fragments, which they can combine on the fly to create spells. Like the Fire fragement does 1d4 per caster level to a single target at close range. And the sphere fragment that increases the range and area of effect. Can work as either Vancian levels or Spell Points.

Sounds a lot like the Epic Spell Seeds. I like it, but it's very Sorcerer-esque; raw talent weaving energies rather than true spells.

What about a crossbreed of UA recharge magic, UA spell points, and UA spells affecting physical health?:
1) Caster knows spells as DnD3.5.
2) Caster has X number of Mana (CL + Int mod [?])
3) Caster casts spell (cost as UA says)
4) MP used recharges at a slow rate; some % of your CL per round, based on your class; Sorcerers regin MP faster than Wizards, etc.
5) If the ratio of current MP/total MP is 0, you pass out. This ratio has some affect on your health; at half mana, you're fatigued, etc.

While this requires spontanious casters, the caster still can't cast very many spells at once.

It might look like thins makes apellcasters have a lot more spells, but realy, it's not any worse than the "reserve point" system for HP in UA - your MP stays topped off between batles, but MP won't regen fast enough to grant many extra spells in any one battle.
Tenebrous_Sage
10-21-06, 12:49 AM I like the system presented in Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed and Arcana Evolved.

Basically there are three types of spells: simple, complex, and exotic. Every spellcasting class in the game draws their spells from the same spell list, but primary spellcasting classes can learn simple and complex spells while non-primary casting classes can only learn simple spells. Exotic spells can be learned via feats (as can complex spells for characters that can't cast them).

The casting mechanism is similar to the vancian system, but has a rather cool take on it. All casters have a list of spells known and spell per day (like a sorcerer), but unlike sorcerers they can switch out their spells known (like a wizard, except spells they learned via feats). Most spells have a normal, heightened, and diminished effect dependant on the spell slot you use to cast it. For instance my character could cast one of his 2nd level spells with a 2nd level slot for the normal effect, cast it with a 1st level slot for the diminished effect, or cast it with a higher level slot for the heightened effect.

I fell in love with this system the first time I saw it, but haven't been able to find a DM that is willing to run it.
Dex
10-21-06, 11:23 PM What about a ritual system where the only spells a wizard knows are the Summon Monster spells, but instead of normal summoning for combat, he must bargain for spells with the summoned creature eg:

Wizard casts SM IV. An appropriate creature appears. Wizard makes diplomacy check (and spends gold peices or other offerings) to have the creature generate the effect of a 4th level or lower spell (since he used a SM IV). You could then RP the bargain with the DM and the player if there's no gold available, or have the wizard sumon creatures with a thematic link to the spell. ie fire elementals for [Fire] spells, evil creatures for [evil] spells etc.
Xavon
10-22-06, 12:19 PM Sounds a lot like the Epic Spell Seeds. I like it, but it's very Sorcerer-esque; raw talent weaving energies rather than true spells.

My inspiration was the metamagic system. This just metamagic to the next two degrees. In the system (in my head) most of the metamagic feats (Still, Silent, Twin, etc) are just normal sepll fragments, but some spell fragments (Quicken, Maximize, and some of the new ones) require a feat to learn.
Iabes_Q_c_a_Mahorella
10-22-06, 10:13 PM Neat.

All of the above: Neat.

And Tenebrous Sage, if you can point me to that rule set, I would DM it in a heartbeat.
Tenebrous_Sage
10-22-06, 10:38 PM Iabes you can find the core book Arcana Evolved here (http://www.malhavocpress.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?arcanaevolved). Unfortunately I don't think I would be able to join you. I don't have the money to fly to NY every week.
Darth Syntax
10-23-06, 08:24 PM 6. A caster that gets his power or uses per day from absorbing the magic of others around him. Could be based on spell levels or points.

The spellthief can do this to a certain degree. He can choose to lose 1d6 of sneak attack damage when making a sneak attack, to instead steal a spell from his enemy. Then he can cast the spell he stole, or gain a new spell-per-day slot to cast one of his known spells.
Iabes_Q_c_a_Mahorella
10-24-06, 05:44 PM Iabes you can find the core book Arcana Evolved here (http://www.malhavocpress.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?arcanaevolved). Unfortunately I don't think I would be able to join you. I don't have the money to fly to NY every week.

Babbleanddrool. :eek: I want that book.

You could always try a play-by-post: boardofq.jconserv.net

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Scalamander 10-10-06, 12:40 AM	Alright, I am pretty damn sure that we're not gonna get up to 1001 or anywhere close to that. What this is just a jumping off point for any new ideas that could facilitate the creation of a new magic system. I'll start by listing the ones that we already have. 1. The boring old vancian magic system. Nothing like spending 8 hours researching your spell only to forget it as soon as its cast. This includes prepared and spontaneous unless anyone can divide that further. 2. Point system. A la psionics and spell point systems 3. Skill based magic. This is where the check to cast more spells increases with every spell you cast. The truenamer from TOM would be an example. 4. Limited Uses or Abilities. You have a certain amount of powers that can be used a certain number of times per day based on level. Like the shadowcaster or feats. 5. Unlimited uses. You get a few spells and just keep blasting away with them. An example here would be the warlock and his incantations. Now for any new ideas; 6. A caster that gets his power or uses per day from absorbing the magic of others around him. Could be based on spell levels or points. 7. Charging. A caster could know a few spells that were based around having to charge them up over a certain number of rounds to gain effects, maybe in specific areas to gain specific results. Some sort of elementalist maybe?
Khandar 10-10-06, 02:42 AM	I want to design a Ritual Magic system that requires lots of time, specific material, verbal, and somatic components, certain conditions that must be met, and spell effects that are less flashy and more like "real world" magic (voodoo, anyone?)
Rhialto 10-10-06, 06:53 AM	Item 6 on your list is more or less the orc system that GW uses. Orc shamen/psions gain spell points only while near other orcs. This continues to accumulate, and the caster risks a headbang (as painful as it sounds) unless he either uses ithe energy for casting or purposely drains himself of that energy.
polt 10-10-06, 10:51 AM	There's an alternate system in my sig.
rydi123 10-10-06, 11:04 AM	the starwars d20 system isnt too bad (not extremely fond of it for starwars though; ironic, no?). you have a governing skill, and each use of a power drains hp.
Cherubaddon 10-10-06, 11:19 PM	I want to design a Ritual Magic system that requires lots of time, specific material, verbal, and somatic components, certain conditions that must be met, and spell effects that are less flashy and more like "real world" magic (voodoo, anyone?) Sweet! I was looking for such a system for sooo long! (I am really bad at inventing this kind of stuff, and the incantations from Unearthed Arcana are too few). I would be grateful if you could just send me a message as soon as you made it up with a link to the thread. Good luck with it!
Vashwood 10-10-06, 11:42 PM	There's also the Call of Cthulu casting system. No spell slots or spell points, and anyone can learn magic. Every time you learn a spell, you lose permanent points of Sanity, and casting spells causes Sanity damage. Though, it goes without saying that the Sanity variant is a requirement for this casting system.
SageBahamut 10-11-06, 05:57 PM	Then there's the Wheel of Time system, which is all about powers known, though I believe you can use them at will. If not then this is a sort of Vancian-light. I also like (to reiterate) the Grim Tales rules. Anyone can cast spells but if you aren't trained (i.e. having the Talents) it eats you alive. But you can do it at will if you're either skilled or reckless.
Patrick Draken-Korin 10-12-06, 11:57 AM	Here's something I came up with, though I never got anything together for it; Concentration Casting: A caster has a concentration capacity that it ocupies with different effects. The caster either continually maintains concentration on an effect or temporaily occupies it's concentration to activate an instantaneous effect. Concentration casting MUST be spontaneous. Tom has 8 points of concentration (level 8?). He currently occupies 2 points with a mage armor effect, 2 points with a resistance bonus effect, and has 4 unoccupied points of concentration. Tom is in a fight against gnolls; he takes his turn to cast melf's acid arrow (requiring 4 points to do so). On tom's next turn, because the gnolls are grouped together, he dismisses his resistance effect, and casts fireball (6 points). Concentration casting allows concentration-cost modifying effects in the same manner that spell points/psionic does, except that the caster's concentration is merely occupied rather than expended. I'm not sure how hard it would be to control concentration casting. Off hand I think it would be pretty broken if applied to D&D. The variability would mean that they'd have to have as few abilities as the warlock. Probably, the best system should be based around 3.5 psionics; concentration points equal caster level (or 2x caster level) + ability modifier, limited spells known, can enhance spell by occupying more concentration. I posted this on a previous thread of a similar vein, here's a link if you care to look it over; Mystical Abilities thread, Remake (new and used caster systems) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=604315)
Xavon 10-12-06, 08:07 PM	Guild Wars Style: Low MP but they recharge quckly; no spell levels, each spell is tied to a skill, the higher the skill the stronger the spell Modular Magic: Instead of complete spells, casters know spell fragments, which they can combine on the fly to create spells. Like the Fire fragement does 1d4 per caster level to a single target at close range. And the sphere fragment that increases the range and area of effect. Can work as either Vancian levels or Spell Points.
Iabes_Q_c_a_Mahorella 10-20-06, 09:58 PM	Modular Magic: Instead of complete spells, casters know spell fragments, which they can combine on the fly to create spells. Like the Fire fragement does 1d4 per caster level to a single target at close range. And the sphere fragment that increases the range and area of effect. Can work as either Vancian levels or Spell Points. Sounds a lot like the Epic Spell Seeds. I like it, but it's very Sorcerer-esque; raw talent weaving energies rather than true spells. What about a crossbreed of UA recharge magic, UA spell points, and UA spells affecting physical health?: 1) Caster knows spells as DnD3.5. 2) Caster has X number of Mana (CL + Int mod [?]) 3) Caster casts spell (cost as UA says) 4) MP used recharges at a slow rate; some % of your CL per round, based on your class; Sorcerers regin MP faster than Wizards, etc. 5) If the ratio of current MP/total MP is 0, you pass out. This ratio has some affect on your health; at half mana, you're fatigued, etc. While this requires spontanious casters, the caster still can't cast very many spells at once. It might look like thins makes apellcasters have a lot more spells, but realy, it's not any worse than the "reserve point" system for HP in UA - your MP stays topped off between batles, but MP won't regen fast enough to grant many extra spells in any one battle.
Tenebrous_Sage 10-21-06, 12:49 AM	I like the system presented in Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed and Arcana Evolved. Basically there are three types of spells: simple, complex, and exotic. Every spellcasting class in the game draws their spells from the same spell list, but primary spellcasting classes can learn simple and complex spells while non-primary casting classes can only learn simple spells. Exotic spells can be learned via feats (as can complex spells for characters that can't cast them). The casting mechanism is similar to the vancian system, but has a rather cool take on it. All casters have a list of spells known and spell per day (like a sorcerer), but unlike sorcerers they can switch out their spells known (like a wizard, except spells they learned via feats). Most spells have a normal, heightened, and diminished effect dependant on the spell slot you use to cast it. For instance my character could cast one of his 2nd level spells with a 2nd level slot for the normal effect, cast it with a 1st level slot for the diminished effect, or cast it with a higher level slot for the heightened effect. I fell in love with this system the first time I saw it, but haven't been able to find a DM that is willing to run it.
Dex 10-21-06, 11:23 PM	What about a ritual system where the only spells a wizard knows are the Summon Monster spells, but instead of normal summoning for combat, he must bargain for spells with the summoned creature eg: Wizard casts SM IV. An appropriate creature appears. Wizard makes diplomacy check (and spends gold peices or other offerings) to have the creature generate the effect of a 4th level or lower spell (since he used a SM IV). You could then RP the bargain with the DM and the player if there's no gold available, or have the wizard sumon creatures with a thematic link to the spell. ie fire elementals for [Fire] spells, evil creatures for [evil] spells etc.
Xavon 10-22-06, 12:19 PM	Sounds a lot like the Epic Spell Seeds. I like it, but it's very Sorcerer-esque; raw talent weaving energies rather than true spells. My inspiration was the metamagic system. This just metamagic to the next two degrees. In the system (in my head) most of the metamagic feats (Still, Silent, Twin, etc) are just normal sepll fragments, but some spell fragments (Quicken, Maximize, and some of the new ones) require a feat to learn.
Iabes_Q_c_a_Mahorella 10-22-06, 10:13 PM	Neat. All of the above: Neat. And Tenebrous Sage, if you can point me to that rule set, I would DM it in a heartbeat.
Tenebrous_Sage 10-22-06, 10:38 PM	Iabes you can find the core book Arcana Evolved here (http://www.malhavocpress.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?arcanaevolved). Unfortunately I don't think I would be able to join you. I don't have the money to fly to NY every week.
Darth Syntax 10-23-06, 08:24 PM	6. A caster that gets his power or uses per day from absorbing the magic of others around him. Could be based on spell levels or points. The spellthief can do this to a certain degree. He can choose to lose 1d6 of sneak attack damage when making a sneak attack, to instead steal a spell from his enemy. Then he can cast the spell he stole, or gain a new spell-per-day slot to cast one of his known spells.
Iabes_Q_c_a_Mahorella 10-24-06, 05:44 PM	Iabes you can find the core book Arcana Evolved here (http://www.malhavocpress.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?arcanaevolved). Unfortunately I don't think I would be able to join you. I don't have the money to fly to NY every week. Babbleanddrool. :eek: I want that book. You could always try a play-by-post: boardofq.jconserv.net