Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Golden Zealot 06-19-06, 08:21 AM	A lot of the feats in the PHB give you +2 to two skills that kind of go together. What do you all think of a houserule whereby you can exchange four skill points for an extra feat and vice versa?
Sphyre 06-19-06, 08:48 AM	A lot of the feats in the PHB give you +2 to two skills that kind of go together. What do you all think of a houserule whereby you can exchange four skill points for an extra feat and vice versa? Lets see: Fighter: 11 bonus feats, and 2 skill points per level. Total feats when converting to skills to feats, minus number of feats gained by level? 21 feats. Rogue: 8 skill ponts per level. Total feats when converting skill points to feats? 40 feats. The advantage of those feats is not only increased value (Keep in mintd there's a feat that grants 5 skill points to distribute as you like, further imbalancing this giving you infinite feats and skill points) but an increased cap. I'd say, you have a lot of work ahead of you to rebalance your classes if you do that. Intelligence will a very powerful stat, and int based casters will wtfpwn all.
Cheza 06-19-06, 09:18 AM	You should give a negative malus. There are three different skillpoint-feats: Synergy-like boni (2 skills get +2 each) Focussing boni (1 skill get +3) Spendable boni (5 skillpoints, not over normal limit) The first two choices are cumulative boni. So even if you have your maximum limit on a skill (rank = 4 for a 1st lvl character), you can add these boni to your result. However you can't increase the number of ranks you have. The last option do this (it's from the 3.0 Ed.). If you try to make a feat<->skill trade, you should limit it or add an additional penalty or drawback. As a limit, you shouldn't allow your players to spend all there skills. So they still should have 2+Int skillpoints left per level. This would prohibit fighter, mages and clerics to make this change. If you don't like this, you can allow them to spend their Int-bonus too (if they have any). This assures that your players still have 2 skillpoints per level. The price they have to pay should be 6-8, this includes a penality. You should have a penality because your players get additional choices. They don't have to spend unnecessary skillpoints to get a very good combat feat. If they take skill-dependant feats, you can reduce the amount of skillpoints they have to spend to 4-6.
Cheza 06-19-06, 09:27 AM	Lets see: Fighter: 11 bonus feats, and 2 skill points per level. Total feats when converting to skills to feats, minus number of feats gained by level? 21 feats. Rogue: 8 skill ponts per level. Total feats when converting skill points to feats? 40 feats. The advantage of those feats is not only increased value (Keep in mintd there's a feat that grants 5 skill points to distribute as you like, further imbalancing this giving you infinite feats and skill points) but an increased cap. I'd say, you have a lot of work ahead of you to rebalance your classes if you do that. Intelligence will a very powerful stat, and int based casters will wtfpwn all. Transmute proficiencies and BAB, etc. of a fighter and a rogue too and you'll get something I already written. Using feats and only one base class (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9349197&postcount=8) As you will see, if you transmute skills into feats, the fighter still have more proficiencies and a higher BAB than a rogue.
Sphyre 06-19-06, 10:19 AM	Transmute proficiencies and BAB, etc. of a fighter and a rogue too and you'll get something I already written. Using feats and only one base class (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9349197&postcount=8) As you will see, if you transmute skills into feats, the fighter still have more proficiencies and a higher BAB than a rogue. buh?
FloppyLlama 06-20-06, 03:53 PM	Remove Open Minded from Complete Adventurer. It's a feat that gives you 5 skills points. It can be taken multiple times I believe. Otherwise: "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" Ad infinitum.
Sphyre 06-20-06, 05:49 PM	Remove Open Minded from Complete Adventurer. It's a feat that gives you 5 skills points. It can be taken multiple times I believe. Otherwise: "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" "I spend four skill points to get five" Ad infinitum. hehe, one reason I said it was a problem. class As you will see, if you transmute skills into feats, the fighter still have more proficiencies and a higher BAB than a rogue. Oh and another reason the fighter stinks with this too... The Ranger. Full BAB, Proficiencies can be bought with skill points then. being as they have only 2 skill points less than a rogue. There you go. Plus you have a larger class list, and minor casting too. With buying "Improved toughness" with skill points, you make up for the smaller hit die. Now the fighter is absolutely worthless. And... I guess I made a mistake with my first analysis. I neglected the fact that you get 4x as many skill points at first level. Point being? Feats are worth more than 4 skill points.
RobertJ 06-21-06, 03:59 AM	Point being? Feats are worth more than 4 skill points. Feats are definitely worth more than 4 skill points. 6 to 8 is probably more appropriate, but even then -- A feat is something that typically allows you to do something you couldn't do before. Hard to put a price on that. The only real usefulness of the +2/+2 or +3 feats is if you're maxed on out a skill for your level but want a little extra "Oomph." An aside, the plural of bonus is bonuses. Saying boni only makes you look ignorant.
Green 06-21-06, 08:45 AM	A lot of the feats in the PHB give you +2 to two skills that kind of go together. What do you all think of a houserule whereby you can exchange four skill points for an extra feat and vice versa? I'd be more inclined to allow a feat to give bonus skill points but not vice versa. It seems to give classes with a lot of skill points too big of an advantage over those who have a lot of feats (read: rogues over fighters). Because many feats are combat-oriented, that steps a bit too much on the fighter's toes for my liking. Not to mention (as presented in the "I spend 4 skill points and get five" example above), the exchange is not equivalent. However, using a feat to gain skill points seems more reasonable since there is a trade-off that is shared more or less equally across the classes. The only exception, of course, is the fighter. But in this case it can be a blessing in disguise since it can help bring a bit more diversity into the types of viable fighters there are available. With additional skill points, a variety of concepts become feasible since fighters can then excel at non-combat abilities that are part of their concept. Moreover, they become viable without the need to multiclass. Consider: 1. Fencers can afford to put more skill points into Balance, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Tumble without shirking things like Listen and Spot. 2. A high-ranking military officer can be decent in skills such as Diplomacy, Knowledge (history), and Knowledge (nobility and royalty). 3. Your superb black ops/commando fighter doesn't need to be a ranger or rogue to be really sneaky, alert, and woods-wise. 4. A true warrior-poet who can handle a sword and a calligraphy brush with excellence. 5. Lots more that can't be mentioned in a single post. I really do like the idea of using a feat to gain additional skill points (level limits still applying). In fact, you could use it to replace many of the feats that give the +2/+2 bonus; instead, you simply get free ranks in the related skills. If you have the time and inclination, you may even create feat packages that give you skill points to use on certain skills. For instance, a Poetic feat can give you 4 bonus skill points to distribute amongst Craft (writing) and Perform (oratory).
Witchblade 06-21-06, 12:55 PM	I'm with the rest here, that houserule will completely unbalance the system. In fact, I wouldn't allow anything that allows you to switch skill points for feats. Feats and skill points should remain separated IMO (with the exception of feats that give skill points).
Pz.Az.04Maus 06-21-06, 03:05 PM	An aside, the plural of bonus is bonuses. Saying boni only makes you look ignorant. ... :rofl:
Romtos 06-25-06, 09:04 AM	This houserule would favor wizards and rogues really too much. Much more skillpoints for a feat, or seperate them, as Witchblade already stated. :) An aside, the plural of bonus is bonuses. Saying boni only makes you look ignorant. Lol, you're showing your own ignorance at this point. Please, check you Latin.
Sphyre 06-25-06, 12:58 PM	Lol, you're showing your own ignorance at this point. Please, check you Latin. You're showing your own ignorance, please check the language he and you are posting in. He's posting in english, and in english, to pluralize most words in add an s or es. There are exceptions, but bonus is not a word that does that. The plural form is Bonuses. At least if you're going to be a grammar nazi, be right. typos are different, (you Latin?) but being completely wrong isn't.
Gabriel Dian 06-25-06, 03:53 PM	Terrible idea. Feats are worth much more than skill points. Just ask yourself, how many times did you say "Damn, I could use that extra feat now", and how many times did you say "Hmm, an extra 4 skill point would be really useful now". Not to mention the mess it will create with prestige class prerequisites, and all the other issues people raised here. Don't do it - you'll regret it.