4 Types of Magic/ Translucent interaction [Archive] - Wizards Community

4 Types of Magic/ Translucent interaction [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Commoner-1
06-16-06, 03:13 PM Okay, I haven't play tested this yet, but I want some early feedback. My next campaign is going to be my first with Psionics in 3e. I was trying to figure out where I wanted to fall on Psionic/Magic transparency. I just don't like the flavor of complete transparency, but I see the need for some transparency so I am going with -5 to caster level checks. Essentially, you can dispel psionic with dispel magic at a -5 and vica versa. Same would go for Power resistance v. spell resistance.

I know, this isn't anything new. I think it is in the XPH somewhere. It got me thinking though. Why stop there? So, on a trial basis, my world is now going to have four types of magic: Divine, Arcane, Mind (Psionics) and Nature. Each type of magic is at a -5 to affect the other.

Divine Magic
Source: Outer Planes
Users: Cleric and Paladins

Arcane Magic
Source: Inner Planes
Users: Wizards and Sorcerers

Mind Magic
Source: Self
Users: Psions, Psychic Warriors, etc.

Nature Magic
Source: Prime Material
Users: Druids and Rangers

Monster abilities are still in the works, but simplest solution would be to just type it the same as the spell it mimicks. I am also considering Outsiders' magic coming from the source matching their origin. For example, a demon would use Divine magic even when throwing a Fireball and a Elemental (Genie, for example) would use Arcane no matter what it cast. Fey would be Nature. Anything with the psionic subtype is Mind of course. I like this because it makes Clerics most effective against demons/devils. Wizards best against elementals. Druids best against Fey, Etc.

There would be 4 types of resistances. Mental, Divine, Arcane, Nature. A creature with any one would resist the others at -5, although I would give some monsters more than one type at full strength. I have a good deal more ideas worked out already, but I am concerned about length, so I will stop for now.

If you noticed the absence of Bard above, congratulations, you are observant. In order to provide some balance and interest to the Bard class, I have ruled that their spells always behave as the type of magic in the Bard's best interest. i.e. His spells are always -5 to dispel (unless it is another bard or bard-magic monster) and he always go against the weakest resistance a monster has.

Alright, let's hear it. Hit me with your criticism. I can take it. I am not too worried about balance and things. I trust my players completely and this is one trial campaign, but if it goes well it will become my default houserule. Also, I don't have many splatbooks, so if this or something similar is out there. Let me know. I am not trying to steal anyones ideas.
Derrick
06-16-06, 04:25 PM I think it's fine, though you might end up with a little bit of work for not much effect. Stipulating the source of these powers is slightly dangerous, though; Perhaps you should simply view these locations as "associated" with the form? Otherwise, it would seem that a Sorceror's magic ought to be stronger than a Druids on the Plane of Fire... which is at least a little odd to me.

Flavour-wise: Bards being in the director's chair of magic-type things does suggest some things about your world. Might I suggest calling the -5 a "Disharmony Penalty"? Taking that a step further, rather than talking about Arcane/Divine/Mind/Nature magic, talk about different Voices (frex, a Wizard calls a Fireball into being with the Voice of Mastery, while her Paladin companion invokes a Cure Light Wounds with the Voice of Praise).
Commoner-1
06-16-06, 05:11 PM You are right about the flavor invoked by giving the bard something extra. I run two separate timelines in the world. The next one, where I am introducing this magic system (the ancient world) would fit with the Harmony theory, however, I will keep it mind for my modern campaigns.

I am also working on a completely different cosmology that will help with why Druid magic is weaker on the plane of fire than a sorcerer's magic. Although, I might not go that route, it does make sense. I am kind of thinking that a sorcerer's fire comes form the elemental plane of fire, while a druid's fire comes is summoned from a natural source somewhere, such as a volcano.

Also, since I am not too concerned with balance in my group, I may just give casters +1 caster level for determining effects on their relative planes whenever that comes up. Yes, this means druid always cast as a level higher on the prime. 7th level druid does 8d6 with a flamestrike. 7th level wizard does 7d6 with a fireball on the prime, but 8d6 on any of the inner planes (including earth, air, and water, though the spell won't work well underwater).

I am considering a cosmology where every plane is concurrent. There is a prime material plane and every other plane is a reflection on that same geography, but with traits specific to the Terrain. So where there is a mountain on the prime, there is the same mountain in the plane of fire, but there it is burning. Plane jumping would be relatively common under this cosmology giving clerics and wizards a chance to have the better magic. I used the standard cosmology terms in my original post, but they don't necessary apply. There are Divine Planes (where the gods live), but they are not anymore "outer" than the next plane. Just a thought though. A whole other thread.

I am putting together a host of feats and magic items that allow characters' magic to function better against the other types.
theblindman
06-17-06, 09:19 AM Sounds good to me. I have some fears about balance, of course, but it does wonders for the verisimiltude of magic, and as long as the players keep hopping around from plane to plane no one character will have an excuse to feel dissapointed.
Patrick Draken-Korin
06-28-06, 11:23 PM interesting. i have a few questions concering extra classes from the complete series, though.

warlocks; are they still arcane-ish or now are they bard-ish? or even druid-ish if attributed to fey or cleric-ish if attributted to fiends?

spirit shaman; are the druid-ish or cleric-ish?

and i like the single-planar-landscape-overlayed-with-planar-traits trick. i've been considering it myself, and in relation to your magical quad it creates interesting results. you might want to create/add the plane of fearie or something similar though.

one thing; the different traits of each "magic"

arcane has (had?) material components and arcane focuses, as well as arcane spell failure.

divine magic had (has?) divine focuses.

nature magic was divine, with it's divine focuses (sprigs of mistle toe or something similar)-
did you change this? say call them totem focuses and apply different type (animal totem focus, plant totem focus, fey totem focus?). though that could get complicated.

psionics has (had?) spell points.

the only one i'm really wondering about is nature magic; are you changing it's traits or leaving them as a mirror to divine magic?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Commoner-1 06-16-06, 03:13 PM	Okay, I haven't play tested this yet, but I want some early feedback. My next campaign is going to be my first with Psionics in 3e. I was trying to figure out where I wanted to fall on Psionic/Magic transparency. I just don't like the flavor of complete transparency, but I see the need for some transparency so I am going with -5 to caster level checks. Essentially, you can dispel psionic with dispel magic at a -5 and vica versa. Same would go for Power resistance v. spell resistance. I know, this isn't anything new. I think it is in the XPH somewhere. It got me thinking though. Why stop there? So, on a trial basis, my world is now going to have four types of magic: Divine, Arcane, Mind (Psionics) and Nature. Each type of magic is at a -5 to affect the other. Divine Magic Source: Outer Planes Users: Cleric and Paladins Arcane Magic Source: Inner Planes Users: Wizards and Sorcerers Mind Magic Source: Self Users: Psions, Psychic Warriors, etc. Nature Magic Source: Prime Material Users: Druids and Rangers Monster abilities are still in the works, but simplest solution would be to just type it the same as the spell it mimicks. I am also considering Outsiders' magic coming from the source matching their origin. For example, a demon would use Divine magic even when throwing a Fireball and a Elemental (Genie, for example) would use Arcane no matter what it cast. Fey would be Nature. Anything with the psionic subtype is Mind of course. I like this because it makes Clerics most effective against demons/devils. Wizards best against elementals. Druids best against Fey, Etc. There would be 4 types of resistances. Mental, Divine, Arcane, Nature. A creature with any one would resist the others at -5, although I would give some monsters more than one type at full strength. I have a good deal more ideas worked out already, but I am concerned about length, so I will stop for now. If you noticed the absence of Bard above, congratulations, you are observant. In order to provide some balance and interest to the Bard class, I have ruled that their spells always behave as the type of magic in the Bard's best interest. i.e. His spells are always -5 to dispel (unless it is another bard or bard-magic monster) and he always go against the weakest resistance a monster has. Alright, let's hear it. Hit me with your criticism. I can take it. I am not too worried about balance and things. I trust my players completely and this is one trial campaign, but if it goes well it will become my default houserule. Also, I don't have many splatbooks, so if this or something similar is out there. Let me know. I am not trying to steal anyones ideas.
Derrick 06-16-06, 04:25 PM	I think it's fine, though you might end up with a little bit of work for not much effect. Stipulating the source of these powers is slightly dangerous, though; Perhaps you should simply view these locations as "associated" with the form? Otherwise, it would seem that a Sorceror's magic ought to be stronger than a Druids on the Plane of Fire... which is at least a little odd to me. Flavour-wise: Bards being in the director's chair of magic-type things does suggest some things about your world. Might I suggest calling the -5 a "Disharmony Penalty"? Taking that a step further, rather than talking about Arcane/Divine/Mind/Nature magic, talk about different Voices (frex, a Wizard calls a Fireball into being with the Voice of Mastery, while her Paladin companion invokes a Cure Light Wounds with the Voice of Praise).
Commoner-1 06-16-06, 05:11 PM	You are right about the flavor invoked by giving the bard something extra. I run two separate timelines in the world. The next one, where I am introducing this magic system (the ancient world) would fit with the Harmony theory, however, I will keep it mind for my modern campaigns. I am also working on a completely different cosmology that will help with why Druid magic is weaker on the plane of fire than a sorcerer's magic. Although, I might not go that route, it does make sense. I am kind of thinking that a sorcerer's fire comes form the elemental plane of fire, while a druid's fire comes is summoned from a natural source somewhere, such as a volcano. Also, since I am not too concerned with balance in my group, I may just give casters +1 caster level for determining effects on their relative planes whenever that comes up. Yes, this means druid always cast as a level higher on the prime. 7th level druid does 8d6 with a flamestrike. 7th level wizard does 7d6 with a fireball on the prime, but 8d6 on any of the inner planes (including earth, air, and water, though the spell won't work well underwater). I am considering a cosmology where every plane is concurrent. There is a prime material plane and every other plane is a reflection on that same geography, but with traits specific to the Terrain. So where there is a mountain on the prime, there is the same mountain in the plane of fire, but there it is burning. Plane jumping would be relatively common under this cosmology giving clerics and wizards a chance to have the better magic. I used the standard cosmology terms in my original post, but they don't necessary apply. There are Divine Planes (where the gods live), but they are not anymore "outer" than the next plane. Just a thought though. A whole other thread. I am putting together a host of feats and magic items that allow characters' magic to function better against the other types.
theblindman 06-17-06, 09:19 AM	Sounds good to me. I have some fears about balance, of course, but it does wonders for the verisimiltude of magic, and as long as the players keep hopping around from plane to plane no one character will have an excuse to feel dissapointed.
Patrick Draken-Korin 06-28-06, 11:23 PM	interesting. i have a few questions concering extra classes from the complete series, though. warlocks; are they still arcane-ish or now are they bard-ish? or even druid-ish if attributed to fey or cleric-ish if attributted to fiends? spirit shaman; are the druid-ish or cleric-ish? and i like the single-planar-landscape-overlayed-with-planar-traits trick. i've been considering it myself, and in relation to your magical quad it creates interesting results. you might want to create/add the plane of fearie or something similar though. one thing; the different traits of each "magic" arcane has (had?) material components and arcane focuses, as well as arcane spell failure. divine magic had (has?) divine focuses. nature magic was divine, with it's divine focuses (sprigs of mistle toe or something similar)- did you change this? say call them totem focuses and apply different type (animal totem focus, plant totem focus, fey totem focus?). though that could get complicated. psionics has (had?) spell points. the only one i'm really wondering about is nature magic; are you changing it's traits or leaving them as a mirror to divine magic?