a few spare ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

a few spare ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
FriendlyBiscuit
07-21-07, 07:55 PM Here are a few rough ideas I've had bouncing around in my head. PEACH and all that jazz. I'd like to see what sort of refinements, if any, are needed, and then put them in my campaign if they make sense.

Small Characters
The near-universal –2 to Strength for small characters is an oversimplification and unnecessarily restricts the number of desirable classes for Small characters. All small-sized races have their racial Strength modifier increased by 2. Certain rare races will end up with a positive racial modifier due to this change; this is not a problem, as those races that did not have the usual –2 to Strength were intended to be exceptionally strong for their size in the first place.
The 3/4 carrying capacity for smaller races already did a fair job of representing the slight frames of the small races. In addition, small characters also have the following traits:
Small: As a Small creature, the PC gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a –1 on weapon damage rolls with melee, thrown, and bow weapons. He also gains a +4 size bonus on Creep checks, a –4 bonus on Intimidate checks, -1 hit points at 1st level, uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.

Charisma Poopers
The universal –2 to Charisma is an oversimplification and unnecessarily restricts the number of desirable classes for half-orcs and their ilk. Half-orcs, dwarves, and similar races who have a –2 Charisma penalty that doesn’t actually penalize them in any meaningful way replace it with this trait:
Insular or Outcast: Members of this race suffer a –2 on Diplomacy, Bluff, Gather Information, and Perform checks in relation to other races than their own.

0-level Psionics (talents)
Clairsentience
• Call to Mind
• Detect Psionics
• Inkling
Psychokinesis
• Far Hand
• My Light
• Sonic Thrust
Psychometabolism
• Elfsight
• Lesser Natural Armor
• Sustenance
Psychoportation
• Astral Traveler
• Burst
• Float
Metacreativity
• Bolt
• Create Sound
• Ecto Protection
Telepathy
• Linguistic Assimilation
• Missive
• Telempathic Projection
Universal
• Astral Traveler
• Control Light
• Daze
• Inertial ArmorThis one still needs a lot of work, and I need to look around on the boards - I'm sure someone has already figured this out. I'd like to have 3 Talents for each discipline and 3 to 6 "Universal" talents that are treated as core powers for psionics and not subject to any benefits, penalties, or limitations that a character may have for one discipline or another. I should prolly move Detect Psionics into there, I dunno...
I think manifesting them will cost 0 PP and require you to expend your psionic focus, and they'll be unaugmentable. How many times can you do this? Dunno yet. This one's extremely in need of more thinking, so don't worry about critiquing it much until I actually have a solid idea to critique.
Roog
07-22-07, 03:07 AM a –4 bonus on Intimidate checks

This sort of thing is better represented by circumstantial modifiers.

In a world where Small creatures are common this produces several strange effects

1: Small creatures can't intimidate other small creatures easily. Or worse, consider that with rules like this, a Small creature has a -4 to intimidate a Tiny creature.

2: The way the rules work, Small creatures are almost as powerful both in combat and socially as Medium creatures. A large character has no real reason to be less scared by a small creature.
If hit dice was a visually obvious feature of creatures (I know its not), that would be the best bonus/penalty to intimidate, because for any given creature it directly corelates to power.
Cheza
07-22-07, 09:26 AM The 3/4 carrying capacity for smaller races already did a fair job of representing the slight frames of the small races.
Look at the equipment weight modifications for small characters.
Fireclave
07-22-07, 03:04 PM The near-universal –2 to Strength for small characters is an oversimplification and unnecessarily restricts the number of desirable classes for Small characters.

Smaller size, less muscle mass, less strength. Small creatures generally lack the muscle to output the same physical force as medium creatures. And really, the only major thing the -2 str hinders is THF. And even then, compared to the bonuses they get from being small, it's not that big a deal.

Compare a gnome THF to a human THF in combat. The gnome gets about a -2 penalty to damage (-1 str, -1 weapon size on average) in exchanged for a +1 to hit, +1 ac, and +1 hp per level. When power attack, the gnome can use their +1 to hit as a power attack power, which closes the gap between the gnome and human THFs, making the net lose of damage only -1 per attack, while still receiving the +1 AC and +1 HP per level. And -1 per attack is absolutly nothing since once you start getting into the higher levels, more and more of your damage output starts to come feats, weapon enchantments, special abilities, and spell buffs.

All small-sized races have their racial Strength modifier increased by 2.
[/snip]
Small: As a Small creature, the PC gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a –1 on weapon damage rolls with melee, thrown, and bow weapons. He also gains a +4 size bonus on Creep checks, a –4 bonus on Intimidate checks, -1 hit points at 1st level, uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.

You probably don't realize this, but you're really nerfing small characters. First you add +2 str, which boosts melee attack damage by +1, then you take that away with the racial penalty on top of taking away range weapon damage. While this represents a net change of practically zero for most combatants (why even bother adding +2str in the first place), my crossbow wielding halflings, gnomes, and kobolds are not happy.

And you also make small races a -1 hp penalty at first level? Why?

And why the -4 to intimidate checks. Small sized creatures already get a -4 penalty when dealing with medium sized characters, so why make the penalty even larger?

However, your proposed changes does grant small races a +1 bonus to melee attack rolls. But if granting an additona +1 to hit in melee and making it easier to qualify for strength-based abilities was your goal, why not simply give small races an additional +1 bonus to melee attack rolls and allow them to treat their strength as 2 points higher for qualify for feats. Would be much simpler that way.

BTW, what's a Creep bonus? Move Silently? Does that mean you'll also add larger bonuses to move silently for being smaller than small? If so, several monsters and spells will be getting a pretty big upgrade. Especially monsters since most small and smaller creatures that rely on move silently tend to have sizable racial bonuses to that skill.

Charisma Poopers
The universal –2 to Charisma is an oversimplification and unnecessarily restricts the number of desirable classes for half-orcs and their ilk. Half-orcs, dwarves, and similar races who have a –2 Charisma penalty that doesn’t actually penalize them in any meaningful way replace it with this trait:
The -2 Cha fits the flavor of those two races. Dwarves are reserved, and being reserved is practically the very opposite being charismatic in the D&D sense.

However, I do I feel that the justification for -2 cha for half-orcs is a bit weak (see below).

Insular or Outcast: Members of this race suffer a –2 on Diplomacy, Bluff, Gather Information, and Perform checks in relation to other races than their own.
Unless I was planing on playing a Dwarven or Half-orc sorcerer, this would be an unnecessary nerf to the two races. You bump their charisma up by 2, but turn arround and give them a net total of -1 to most of the important charisma based skills. My dwarven and half-orc bards and party face rogues are not happy.

Personally, I would just leave the Dwarves alone. They already rock hardcore without needing tweaks. The +2 con will usally make up for what ever difficulties the -2 cha might introduce.

With half-orcs, I would simply drop the -2 cha. It sucks that their total racial modifiers are negative, and being "crass and crude" as the PH describes them doesn't really equal -2 cha. Most half-orcs are instead depicted with having very strong personalties, or at least, no weaker than the average human.

:twocents:
Werral
07-23-07, 04:41 AM a –4 bonus on Intimidate checks,

Why not +4? think Joe Pesci.
Rhialto
07-23-07, 06:29 AM "Call me short and I'll bite yer kneecaps!"

That sounds pretty intimidating to me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
FriendlyBiscuit 07-21-07, 07:55 PM	Here are a few rough ideas I've had bouncing around in my head. PEACH and all that jazz. I'd like to see what sort of refinements, if any, are needed, and then put them in my campaign if they make sense. Small Characters The near-universal –2 to Strength for small characters is an oversimplification and unnecessarily restricts the number of desirable classes for Small characters. All small-sized races have their racial Strength modifier increased by 2. Certain rare races will end up with a positive racial modifier due to this change; this is not a problem, as those races that did not have the usual –2 to Strength were intended to be exceptionally strong for their size in the first place. The 3/4 carrying capacity for smaller races already did a fair job of representing the slight frames of the small races. In addition, small characters also have the following traits: Small: As a Small creature, the PC gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a –1 on weapon damage rolls with melee, thrown, and bow weapons. He also gains a +4 size bonus on Creep checks, a –4 bonus on Intimidate checks, -1 hit points at 1st level, uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character. Charisma Poopers The universal –2 to Charisma is an oversimplification and unnecessarily restricts the number of desirable classes for half-orcs and their ilk. Half-orcs, dwarves, and similar races who have a –2 Charisma penalty that doesn’t actually penalize them in any meaningful way replace it with this trait: Insular or Outcast: Members of this race suffer a –2 on Diplomacy, Bluff, Gather Information, and Perform checks in relation to other races than their own. 0-level Psionics (talents) Clairsentience • Call to Mind • Detect Psionics • Inkling Psychokinesis • Far Hand • My Light • Sonic Thrust Psychometabolism • Elfsight • Lesser Natural Armor • Sustenance Psychoportation • Astral Traveler • Burst • Float Metacreativity • Bolt • Create Sound • Ecto Protection Telepathy • Linguistic Assimilation • Missive • Telempathic Projection Universal • Astral Traveler • Control Light • Daze • Inertial ArmorThis one still needs a lot of work, and I need to look around on the boards - I'm sure someone has already figured this out. I'd like to have 3 Talents for each discipline and 3 to 6 "Universal" talents that are treated as core powers for psionics and not subject to any benefits, penalties, or limitations that a character may have for one discipline or another. I should prolly move Detect Psionics into there, I dunno... I think manifesting them will cost 0 PP and require you to expend your psionic focus, and they'll be unaugmentable. How many times can you do this? Dunno yet. This one's extremely in need of more thinking, so don't worry about critiquing it much until I actually have a solid idea to critique.
Roog 07-22-07, 03:07 AM	a –4 bonus on Intimidate checks This sort of thing is better represented by circumstantial modifiers. In a world where Small creatures are common this produces several strange effects 1: Small creatures can't intimidate other small creatures easily. Or worse, consider that with rules like this, a Small creature has a -4 to intimidate a Tiny creature. 2: The way the rules work, Small creatures are almost as powerful both in combat and socially as Medium creatures. A large character has no real reason to be less scared by a small creature. If hit dice was a visually obvious feature of creatures (I know its not), that would be the best bonus/penalty to intimidate, because for any given creature it directly corelates to power.
Cheza 07-22-07, 09:26 AM	The 3/4 carrying capacity for smaller races already did a fair job of representing the slight frames of the small races. Look at the equipment weight modifications for small characters.
Fireclave 07-22-07, 03:04 PM	The near-universal –2 to Strength for small characters is an oversimplification and unnecessarily restricts the number of desirable classes for Small characters. Smaller size, less muscle mass, less strength. Small creatures generally lack the muscle to output the same physical force as medium creatures. And really, the only major thing the -2 str hinders is THF. And even then, compared to the bonuses they get from being small, it's not that big a deal. Compare a gnome THF to a human THF in combat. The gnome gets about a -2 penalty to damage (-1 str, -1 weapon size on average) in exchanged for a +1 to hit, +1 ac, and +1 hp per level. When power attack, the gnome can use their +1 to hit as a power attack power, which closes the gap between the gnome and human THFs, making the net lose of damage only -1 per attack, while still receiving the +1 AC and +1 HP per level. And -1 per attack is absolutly nothing since once you start getting into the higher levels, more and more of your damage output starts to come feats, weapon enchantments, special abilities, and spell buffs. All small-sized races have their racial Strength modifier increased by 2. [/snip] Small: As a Small creature, the PC gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a –1 on weapon damage rolls with melee, thrown, and bow weapons. He also gains a +4 size bonus on Creep checks, a –4 bonus on Intimidate checks, -1 hit points at 1st level, uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character. You probably don't realize this, but you're really nerfing small characters. First you add +2 str, which boosts melee attack damage by +1, then you take that away with the racial penalty on top of taking away range weapon damage. While this represents a net change of practically zero for most combatants (why even bother adding +2str in the first place), my crossbow wielding halflings, gnomes, and kobolds are not happy. And you also make small races a -1 hp penalty at first level? Why? And why the -4 to intimidate checks. Small sized creatures already get a -4 penalty when dealing with medium sized characters, so why make the penalty even larger? However, your proposed changes does grant small races a +1 bonus to melee attack rolls. But if granting an additona +1 to hit in melee and making it easier to qualify for strength-based abilities was your goal, why not simply give small races an additional +1 bonus to melee attack rolls and allow them to treat their strength as 2 points higher for qualify for feats. Would be much simpler that way. BTW, what's a Creep bonus? Move Silently? Does that mean you'll also add larger bonuses to move silently for being smaller than small? If so, several monsters and spells will be getting a pretty big upgrade. Especially monsters since most small and smaller creatures that rely on move silently tend to have sizable racial bonuses to that skill. Charisma Poopers The universal –2 to Charisma is an oversimplification and unnecessarily restricts the number of desirable classes for half-orcs and their ilk. Half-orcs, dwarves, and similar races who have a –2 Charisma penalty that doesn’t actually penalize them in any meaningful way replace it with this trait: The -2 Cha fits the flavor of those two races. Dwarves are reserved, and being reserved is practically the very opposite being charismatic in the D&D sense. However, I do I feel that the justification for -2 cha for half-orcs is a bit weak (see below). Insular or Outcast: Members of this race suffer a –2 on Diplomacy, Bluff, Gather Information, and Perform checks in relation to other races than their own. Unless I was planing on playing a Dwarven or Half-orc sorcerer, this would be an unnecessary nerf to the two races. You bump their charisma up by 2, but turn arround and give them a net total of -1 to most of the important charisma based skills. My dwarven and half-orc bards and party face rogues are not happy. Personally, I would just leave the Dwarves alone. They already rock hardcore without needing tweaks. The +2 con will usally make up for what ever difficulties the -2 cha might introduce. With half-orcs, I would simply drop the -2 cha. It sucks that their total racial modifiers are negative, and being "crass and crude" as the PH describes them doesn't really equal -2 cha. Most half-orcs are instead depicted with having very strong personalties, or at least, no weaker than the average human. :twocents:
Werral 07-23-07, 04:41 AM	a –4 bonus on Intimidate checks, Why not +4? think Joe Pesci.
Rhialto 07-23-07, 06:29 AM	"Call me short and I'll bite yer kneecaps!" That sounds pretty intimidating to me.