A new Trait... need critiques! [Archive] - Wizards Community

A new Trait... need critiques! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xabre
02-02-06, 08:53 AM My character in an upcoming game is a cleric, focusing on prophecy and the like, and aiming to become an oracle. I should also point out that this is a fairly 'Ancient Greece' style of campaign setting, too.

I want to use a Trait of my own design, but I'd like to know if it's too OOT.

Sight of the Blind
Penalty - You are blind. Your eyes are devoid of color to any looking.
Benefit - Through some form of magical means (work this out with your DM), you can see in Darkvision, with a range of 120'.

It actually feels like more of a benefit than a drawback, and honestly, it's more for rp purposes for the character than anything else, but I wanted people's opinions. A limited range of sight, not to mention lack of every seeing in color COULD be considered drawbacks in exchange for permanent darkvision at improved ranges.

I should also point out that the character is human, so Darkvision is usually not happening.

The other version of this trait would be to use Blind Sense instead... but I thought that might be far too powerful.
DmMagnus
02-02-06, 09:18 AM I guess it balanced enough, but it dosn`t quite make sense..
Xabre
02-02-06, 09:23 AM Well, it came from two sources.

1) The Blindfold of True Darkness. I actually haven't found this item yet from where it's printed, but someone told me about it... basically, this trait IS that item.. lose real sight in exchange for darkvision.

2) In the campaign setting that I'll be playing, level 1 of a PrC grants this same effect... go blind, in exchange for Darkvision.. though the class grants Darkvision to the same distance as true sight.

Personally, I just liked the idea of a blind seer, but with still some way of seeing, in order to be an effective playable character.
Mufflon
02-02-06, 12:37 PM It seems fairly well balanced to me, not being able to see beyond 120 feet can be a pretty big drawback.

And actual Blind Sense would be way to powerful.
Phase
02-03-06, 08:25 AM Blindfold of utter darkness isnt darkvision, its blind sight (60')
Xabre
02-03-06, 08:35 AM Yeah, I finally saw it today when I opened the A&EG.

Save-vs-DM actually just created another Trait for me in one of the other boards... it works like a lesser blindsight... basically you can do everything up to 60' EXCEPT pure sight-based checks and such.

Not sure what I'd prefer, though.
PerennialRook
02-03-06, 03:58 PM The drawback should be greater than or equal to the benefit. You take away sight and then give it back, plus the ability to see in the dark. Not to mention you can see farther in the dark than any other race without a LA. If blind were a flaw, what feat could you take? Nothing that would give you 120 ft. of darkvision. A trait should be more sublte than a major ability and severe flaw.
Xabre
02-04-06, 12:31 PM The drawback should be greater than or equal to the benefit. You take away sight and then give it back, plus the ability to see in the dark. Not to mention you can see farther in the dark than any other race without a LA. If blind were a flaw, what feat could you take? Nothing that would give you 120 ft. of darkvision. A trait should be more sublte than a major ability and severe flaw.

I take away sight, and get it back UP TO 120'. Put me anywhere that's not a closed off room or dungeon, and I'm blind compared to every one else.

I gain the ability to see in the dark, sure. On the other hand... when would this character ever actually -know- that it is the dark... if his vision is always of this nature?

Save-Vs-DM created a different version of this trait for me in another thread, so that's alright.
AT-AT Assault
02-04-06, 01:25 PM Xabre, what PerennialRook means is that a trait shouldnt be balanced by saying "+15 added to -15 = 0" but a trait should be balanced by saying "+3 added to -3 = 0". This is because you can easily work around a flaw thus giving you a major advantage with the former, but an ok advantage with the latter.
Tyler Do'Urden
02-04-06, 02:06 PM The only problem I have with it is the phrase "to any looking." It's superfluous and awkward; delete it. Just say, "your eyes are devoid of color." That's enough.
PerennialRook
02-06-06, 05:20 PM Compare the new trait to any other trait in UA. Is the benefit more powerful than the most powerful benefit already available? (Yes)

Try this: Make Blind a flaw. Then make a feat that gives you 120 ft. of darkvision. Still think it's balanced? (No)

Your best bet is to create a feat tree branching off of Blind-Fight that bestows limited sight akin to tremorsense, and that may require permanent blindness.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xabre 02-02-06, 08:53 AM	My character in an upcoming game is a cleric, focusing on prophecy and the like, and aiming to become an oracle. I should also point out that this is a fairly 'Ancient Greece' style of campaign setting, too. I want to use a Trait of my own design, but I'd like to know if it's too OOT. Sight of the Blind Penalty - You are blind. Your eyes are devoid of color to any looking. Benefit - Through some form of magical means (work this out with your DM), you can see in Darkvision, with a range of 120'. It actually feels like more of a benefit than a drawback, and honestly, it's more for rp purposes for the character than anything else, but I wanted people's opinions. A limited range of sight, not to mention lack of every seeing in color COULD be considered drawbacks in exchange for permanent darkvision at improved ranges. I should also point out that the character is human, so Darkvision is usually not happening. The other version of this trait would be to use Blind Sense instead... but I thought that might be far too powerful.
DmMagnus 02-02-06, 09:18 AM	I guess it balanced enough, but it dosn`t quite make sense..
Xabre 02-02-06, 09:23 AM	Well, it came from two sources. 1) The Blindfold of True Darkness. I actually haven't found this item yet from where it's printed, but someone told me about it... basically, this trait IS that item.. lose real sight in exchange for darkvision. 2) In the campaign setting that I'll be playing, level 1 of a PrC grants this same effect... go blind, in exchange for Darkvision.. though the class grants Darkvision to the same distance as true sight. Personally, I just liked the idea of a blind seer, but with still some way of seeing, in order to be an effective playable character.
Mufflon 02-02-06, 12:37 PM	It seems fairly well balanced to me, not being able to see beyond 120 feet can be a pretty big drawback. And actual Blind Sense would be way to powerful.
Phase 02-03-06, 08:25 AM	Blindfold of utter darkness isnt darkvision, its blind sight (60')
Xabre 02-03-06, 08:35 AM	Yeah, I finally saw it today when I opened the A&EG. Save-vs-DM actually just created another Trait for me in one of the other boards... it works like a lesser blindsight... basically you can do everything up to 60' EXCEPT pure sight-based checks and such. Not sure what I'd prefer, though.
PerennialRook 02-03-06, 03:58 PM	The drawback should be greater than or equal to the benefit. You take away sight and then give it back, plus the ability to see in the dark. Not to mention you can see farther in the dark than any other race without a LA. If blind were a flaw, what feat could you take? Nothing that would give you 120 ft. of darkvision. A trait should be more sublte than a major ability and severe flaw.
Xabre 02-04-06, 12:31 PM	The drawback should be greater than or equal to the benefit. You take away sight and then give it back, plus the ability to see in the dark. Not to mention you can see farther in the dark than any other race without a LA. If blind were a flaw, what feat could you take? Nothing that would give you 120 ft. of darkvision. A trait should be more sublte than a major ability and severe flaw. I take away sight, and get it back UP TO 120'. Put me anywhere that's not a closed off room or dungeon, and I'm blind compared to every one else. I gain the ability to see in the dark, sure. On the other hand... when would this character ever actually -know- that it is the dark... if his vision is always of this nature? Save-Vs-DM created a different version of this trait for me in another thread, so that's alright.
AT-AT Assault 02-04-06, 01:25 PM	Xabre, what PerennialRook means is that a trait shouldnt be balanced by saying "+15 added to -15 = 0" but a trait should be balanced by saying "+3 added to -3 = 0". This is because you can easily work around a flaw thus giving you a major advantage with the former, but an ok advantage with the latter.
Tyler Do'Urden 02-04-06, 02:06 PM	The only problem I have with it is the phrase "to any looking." It's superfluous and awkward; delete it. Just say, "your eyes are devoid of color." That's enough.
PerennialRook 02-06-06, 05:20 PM	Compare the new trait to any other trait in UA. Is the benefit more powerful than the most powerful benefit already available? (Yes) Try this: Make Blind a flaw. Then make a feat that gives you 120 ft. of darkvision. Still think it's balanced? (No) Your best bet is to create a feat tree branching off of Blind-Fight that bestows limited sight akin to tremorsense, and that may require permanent blindness.