a problem with prestige bards [Archive] - Wizards Community

a problem with prestige bards [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
josephbt
02-27-04, 12:47 PM ok so u have to have a +3bab and 3 diferent spells of 1st level.
how exactly would u acomplish that before 6th lvl?
the only way i could think of was rog3/wiz2!
i don't wanna play a bard with a spellbook, thats lame.
or ftr1/rog1/sor3, but thats even worse.
so, how can i do it with only sor/rog combination before 5th lvl?
jedrious
02-27-04, 01:01 PM sorcerer rogue can't be done, although making a spellbook look like sheet music wouldn't be that big of a stretch
Magus_Extreme
02-27-04, 01:24 PM don't gnomes get 3 1st level arcane spells as a racial ability?
Naga_Slayer
02-27-04, 01:31 PM This has nothing to do with the thread as I do not have the PHB in front of me, but Magus, I love your quote. I didn't get it at first until I saw your avatar.... Hahahaha!
Naga_Slayer
02-27-04, 01:35 PM ok so u have to have a +3bab and 3 diferent spells of 1st level.

The easiest way around this is not to make Bard a Prestige Class...
Mr. VanderMeer
02-27-04, 02:57 PM I really like the Bard Prestige Class. Takes me back to the good old days of Advanced D&D.

The only problem is indeed that he has to be an arcane caster. I would really like to see a prestige bard who could be a little bit of a fighter, a bit of a rogue and a bit of a druid. (Again just like in AD&D)
Magus_Extreme
02-27-04, 03:56 PM Originally posted by Naga_Slayer
This has nothing to do with the thread as I do not have the PHB in front of me, but Magus, I love your quote. I didn't get it at first until I saw your avatar.... Hahahaha!

actually, it has quite a bit to do with this. The requirement is a +3 BAB, and 3 1st level arcane spells. with that in mind, gnomes automatically gain 3 1st level spells. So all they need to do is pick up 3 levels of fighter, and on their fourth level, they're a bard. makes sense, with a favored class of bard as well.
you have to look at the class, though. it's requirements are actually very easy to enter into, compaired with other PrC's. Furthermore, unlike other PrC's, it's a 15-level class. So if you have to go to 5th level before you can enter, that's not so bad. it is a PRESTIGE class, remember that.
As an alternate, perhaps you should look into the Hexblade base class from Complete Warrior. It has a rogue's attack progression, but the ability to cast magic spells as well, arcane in nature. thus that might be a bit good.
If you dont want a gnome or a hexblade though, i'm afraid you'll have to pick up bard like any other prestige class.
Then again, you can just not use it as a prestige class.
Naga_Slayer
02-27-04, 05:13 PM I meant my post had nothing to do with the thread. You're little signature. "Who would've thought that Drew Carry was Cthulhu-spawn?" Then I saw your pic.

I imagine the Prestige Bard was set up so that Gnomes could take it earlier than most races, at it's their favored class. That would give a nice leeway to take some fighter/rogue levels with but a single sorcerer level. Really nasty insane powerful if you are using the Gestalt Option.
VanDeBeast
02-27-04, 05:14 PM Is perform a class skill for fighter or sorcerer? If not then you may have a problem with the prerequisites.

I think there is a bit of a problem with the prereqs, as a sorcerer should be a valid entry point by 5th character level, as josephbt pointed out. Not that a little tweaking couldn't fix it.
Wil_Hyral
02-27-04, 05:27 PM Originally posted by Mr. VanderMeer
I really like the Bard Prestige Class. Takes me back to the good old days of Advanced D&D.

The only problem is indeed that he has to be an arcane caster. I would really like to see a prestige bard who could be a little bit of a fighter, a bit of a rogue and a bit of a druid. (Again just like in AD&D)

Not to mention historical accuracy. Celtic bards weren't too dissimilar from celtic druids. Keltoi Bardae or something.. I forget their titles but they were as religious as they were musical. The bards they've conceptualized in contemporary D&D more reflect an English Minstrel than anything.

At least that's what I've read... I never played 1e long enough to remember bards that well but I do remember they were more druidish in their spells.
VanDeBeast
02-27-04, 05:58 PM Originally posted by Wil_Hyral
Not to mention historical accuracy. Celtic bards weren't too dissimilar from celtic druids. Keltoi Bardae or something.. I forget their titles but they were as religious as they were musical. The bards they've conceptualized in contemporary D&D more reflect an English Minstrel than anything.

At least that's what I've read... I never played 1e long enough to remember bards that well but I do remember they were more druidish in their spells.

When I was playing Living Greyhawk early on I heard that someone was trying to make an "Old Faith" bard prestige class based on the first edition bard. I never heard what the results of that effort was, but I imagine that the prestige bard could be addapted to that purpose. Also, I do recall 1e AD&D bards having somewhat of a musical component.
klyre
02-27-04, 06:14 PM Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
actually, it has quite a bit to do with this. The requirement is a +3 BAB, and 3 1st level arcane spells. with that in mind, gnomes automatically gain 3 1st level spells.

Erm... Gnomes get speak with animals (1st level divine spell), Dancing Lights (cantrip), Ghost Sound (cantrip), and Prestidigitation (cantrip).

Where are these 3 1st level arcane spells gnomes supposedly get?
Naga_Slayer
02-27-04, 06:22 PM It was an honest mistake, chief.
Kaardomos
02-27-04, 07:25 PM Originally posted by Magus_Extreme
As an alternate, perhaps you should look into the Hexblade base class from Complete Warrior. It has a rogue's attack progression, but the ability to cast magic spells as well, arcane in nature. thus that might be a bit good.
Actually, Hexblades have fighter BAB.
Belegbeth
02-27-04, 09:37 PM Originally posted by Mr. VanderMeer
I really like the Bard Prestige Class. Takes me back to the good old days of Advanced D&D.

The only problem is indeed that he has to be an arcane caster. I would really like to see a prestige bard who could be a little bit of a fighter, a bit of a rogue and a bit of a druid. (Again just like in AD&D)

I agree with the first sentiment -- I have fond memories of the 1st ed. bard class, tucked away in the appendix of my ancient Player's Handbook (the one in which I coloured in all the interior illustrations). :D

There are two possibilities to get the prestige class even closer to the 1st ed. version. (1.) Rework the class so that its abilities correspond to the "divine bard" or the "druidic bard" (the latter is only sketched on p. 58) variant classes (not too hard to do, I think). (2.) Use the generic class system, and allow divine Spell Casters to take the prestige class. Either option should work.
NorthSaber
02-27-04, 10:11 PM You could use the Battle Sorcerer to qualify for the 3 arcane spells and +3 bab @ level 5 (so 6th level could be prestige bard), but it won't help with the Perform requirement...

I guess another option would be Sorcerer 2 / Human Paragon 3, which would cover all of the requirements. If you can take the Extra Spell feat (from Tome and Blood), you could make a Battle Sorcerer 2 / Human Paragon 3 and qualify (and have more hit points).

If you can use the fractional base bonus house-rule/variant on p. 73 of UA, Rogue 2 / Sorcerer 3 would also qualify.
Greyman
02-28-04, 05:16 AM Originally posted by Mr. VanderMeer
I really like the Bard Prestige Class. Takes me back to the good old days of Advanced D&D.

The only problem is indeed that he has to be an arcane caster. I would really like to see a prestige bard who could be a little bit of a fighter, a bit of a rogue and a bit of a druid. (Again just like in AD&D) Well, there is a divine bard variant (which casts spells from the bard list as divine spells, and gets a few extra spells too), so why not make a divine prestige bard? I mean, if you're going to use a variant already, you don't have to stick with the "official houserules".
exploding_brain
02-28-04, 01:33 PM Use the Fractional base bonuses rule on page 73. Then you can get there with a sor3/rog2. 3 levels of sorcerer give you a bab of +1.5, and 2 levels of rogue give a bab of +1.5, which adds up to +3.

Edit: Oops, just read the end of NorthSaber's post. Sorry to be repetitive. Have to say though, that I highly recommend that house rule, with one small change. The +2 bonus for having good save progressions from two classes doesn't stack in my game. Been playing with that rule for over 3 years now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
josephbt 02-27-04, 12:47 PM	ok so u have to have a +3bab and 3 diferent spells of 1st level. how exactly would u acomplish that before 6th lvl? the only way i could think of was rog3/wiz2! i don't wanna play a bard with a spellbook, thats lame. or ftr1/rog1/sor3, but thats even worse. so, how can i do it with only sor/rog combination before 5th lvl?
jedrious 02-27-04, 01:01 PM	sorcerer rogue can't be done, although making a spellbook look like sheet music wouldn't be that big of a stretch
Magus_Extreme 02-27-04, 01:24 PM	don't gnomes get 3 1st level arcane spells as a racial ability?
Naga_Slayer 02-27-04, 01:31 PM	This has nothing to do with the thread as I do not have the PHB in front of me, but Magus, I love your quote. I didn't get it at first until I saw your avatar.... Hahahaha!
Naga_Slayer 02-27-04, 01:35 PM	ok so u have to have a +3bab and 3 diferent spells of 1st level. The easiest way around this is not to make Bard a Prestige Class...
Mr. VanderMeer 02-27-04, 02:57 PM	I really like the Bard Prestige Class. Takes me back to the good old days of Advanced D&D. The only problem is indeed that he has to be an arcane caster. I would really like to see a prestige bard who could be a little bit of a fighter, a bit of a rogue and a bit of a druid. (Again just like in AD&D)
Magus_Extreme 02-27-04, 03:56 PM	Originally posted by Naga_Slayer This has nothing to do with the thread as I do not have the PHB in front of me, but Magus, I love your quote. I didn't get it at first until I saw your avatar.... Hahahaha! actually, it has quite a bit to do with this. The requirement is a +3 BAB, and 3 1st level arcane spells. with that in mind, gnomes automatically gain 3 1st level spells. So all they need to do is pick up 3 levels of fighter, and on their fourth level, they're a bard. makes sense, with a favored class of bard as well. you have to look at the class, though. it's requirements are actually very easy to enter into, compaired with other PrC's. Furthermore, unlike other PrC's, it's a 15-level class. So if you have to go to 5th level before you can enter, that's not so bad. it is a PRESTIGE class, remember that. As an alternate, perhaps you should look into the Hexblade base class from Complete Warrior. It has a rogue's attack progression, but the ability to cast magic spells as well, arcane in nature. thus that might be a bit good. If you dont want a gnome or a hexblade though, i'm afraid you'll have to pick up bard like any other prestige class. Then again, you can just not use it as a prestige class.
Naga_Slayer 02-27-04, 05:13 PM	I meant my post had nothing to do with the thread. You're little signature. "Who would've thought that Drew Carry was Cthulhu-spawn?" Then I saw your pic. I imagine the Prestige Bard was set up so that Gnomes could take it earlier than most races, at it's their favored class. That would give a nice leeway to take some fighter/rogue levels with but a single sorcerer level. Really nasty insane powerful if you are using the Gestalt Option.
VanDeBeast 02-27-04, 05:14 PM	Is perform a class skill for fighter or sorcerer? If not then you may have a problem with the prerequisites. I think there is a bit of a problem with the prereqs, as a sorcerer should be a valid entry point by 5th character level, as josephbt pointed out. Not that a little tweaking couldn't fix it.
Wil_Hyral 02-27-04, 05:27 PM	Originally posted by Mr. VanderMeer I really like the Bard Prestige Class. Takes me back to the good old days of Advanced D&D. The only problem is indeed that he has to be an arcane caster. I would really like to see a prestige bard who could be a little bit of a fighter, a bit of a rogue and a bit of a druid. (Again just like in AD&D) Not to mention historical accuracy. Celtic bards weren't too dissimilar from celtic druids. Keltoi Bardae or something.. I forget their titles but they were as religious as they were musical. The bards they've conceptualized in contemporary D&D more reflect an English Minstrel than anything. At least that's what I've read... I never played 1e long enough to remember bards that well but I do remember they were more druidish in their spells.
VanDeBeast 02-27-04, 05:58 PM	Originally posted by Wil_Hyral Not to mention historical accuracy. Celtic bards weren't too dissimilar from celtic druids. Keltoi Bardae or something.. I forget their titles but they were as religious as they were musical. The bards they've conceptualized in contemporary D&D more reflect an English Minstrel than anything. At least that's what I've read... I never played 1e long enough to remember bards that well but I do remember they were more druidish in their spells. When I was playing Living Greyhawk early on I heard that someone was trying to make an "Old Faith" bard prestige class based on the first edition bard. I never heard what the results of that effort was, but I imagine that the prestige bard could be addapted to that purpose. Also, I do recall 1e AD&D bards having somewhat of a musical component.
klyre 02-27-04, 06:14 PM	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme actually, it has quite a bit to do with this. The requirement is a +3 BAB, and 3 1st level arcane spells. with that in mind, gnomes automatically gain 3 1st level spells. Erm... Gnomes get speak with animals (1st level divine spell), Dancing Lights (cantrip), Ghost Sound (cantrip), and Prestidigitation (cantrip). Where are these 3 1st level arcane spells gnomes supposedly get?
Naga_Slayer 02-27-04, 06:22 PM	It was an honest mistake, chief.
Kaardomos 02-27-04, 07:25 PM	Originally posted by Magus_Extreme As an alternate, perhaps you should look into the Hexblade base class from Complete Warrior. It has a rogue's attack progression, but the ability to cast magic spells as well, arcane in nature. thus that might be a bit good. Actually, Hexblades have fighter BAB.
Belegbeth 02-27-04, 09:37 PM	Originally posted by Mr. VanderMeer I really like the Bard Prestige Class. Takes me back to the good old days of Advanced D&D. The only problem is indeed that he has to be an arcane caster. I would really like to see a prestige bard who could be a little bit of a fighter, a bit of a rogue and a bit of a druid. (Again just like in AD&D) I agree with the first sentiment -- I have fond memories of the 1st ed. bard class, tucked away in the appendix of my ancient Player's Handbook (the one in which I coloured in all the interior illustrations). :D There are two possibilities to get the prestige class even closer to the 1st ed. version. (1.) Rework the class so that its abilities correspond to the "divine bard" or the "druidic bard" (the latter is only sketched on p. 58) variant classes (not too hard to do, I think). (2.) Use the generic class system, and allow divine Spell Casters to take the prestige class. Either option should work.
NorthSaber 02-27-04, 10:11 PM	You could use the Battle Sorcerer to qualify for the 3 arcane spells and +3 bab @ level 5 (so 6th level could be prestige bard), but it won't help with the Perform requirement... I guess another option would be Sorcerer 2 / Human Paragon 3, which would cover all of the requirements. If you can take the Extra Spell feat (from Tome and Blood), you could make a Battle Sorcerer 2 / Human Paragon 3 and qualify (and have more hit points). If you can use the fractional base bonus house-rule/variant on p. 73 of UA, Rogue 2 / Sorcerer 3 would also qualify.
Greyman 02-28-04, 05:16 AM	Originally posted by Mr. VanderMeer I really like the Bard Prestige Class. Takes me back to the good old days of Advanced D&D. The only problem is indeed that he has to be an arcane caster. I would really like to see a prestige bard who could be a little bit of a fighter, a bit of a rogue and a bit of a druid. (Again just like in AD&D) Well, there is a divine bard variant (which casts spells from the bard list as divine spells, and gets a few extra spells too), so why not make a divine prestige bard? I mean, if you're going to use a variant already, you don't have to stick with the "official houserules".
exploding_brain 02-28-04, 01:33 PM	Use the Fractional base bonuses rule on page 73. Then you can get there with a sor3/rog2. 3 levels of sorcerer give you a bab of +1.5, and 2 levels of rogue give a bab of +1.5, which adds up to +3. Edit: Oops, just read the end of NorthSaber's post. Sorry to be repetitive. Have to say though, that I highly recommend that house rule, with one small change. The +2 bonus for having good save progressions from two classes doesn't stack in my game. Been playing with that rule for over 3 years now.