Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SykeXero 05-24-04, 12:56 PM	My single biggest complaint with DnD in general is the fact that with the standard ability score system is that there isn't enough of a bonus from having a 15 as opposed to a 14. Is there anyone out there who agrees that this system is a little messed up? I would like some help designing a system that is very similar but take advantage of finer ability score res. I was thinking of making 10 be the flat modifier of +0 and each point above or below give a corresponding +/- but that seems a little Imbalancing. Also I would like to find some aditional uses for mental scores.
Salla 05-24-04, 01:22 PM	I don't see anything especially wrong with it. It's certainly much better than 2e, where you got pretty much nothing for a stat between 7 and 13. The benefit to having a 15 instead of a 14 is that, when you hit your 4-8-12-16-20 stat adjustments, you then have a 16 instead of a 15.
Necron013 05-24-04, 06:31 PM	The other benefit of the extra stat point: You don't suffer from that 1 piont of ability damage/drain.
TieraStarr 05-25-04, 06:33 AM	I've seen one suggestion where when you apply ½ or 1½ strength bonus to damage, and if your ability score is odd to round up instead of down. I dont have an opinion on it myself, but thought I would pass on the idea.
Greyman 05-26-04, 03:01 AM	The ability score prerequiste of feats and prestige classes that have one, is always an odd number. A good example of this is the Two Weapon Fighting tree. Two-Weapon Fighting: Dexterity 15+. Improved Two Weapon Fighting: Dexterity 17+ Greater Two Weapon Fighting: Dexterity 19+.
Szatany 05-26-04, 05:49 AM	You could rule that if the ability score is odd, it adds bonus to skill checks as if it was one point higher, but is otherwise the same score. For example: Str 12 - Adds +1 to melee attacks, damage, strength checks, climb, jump and swim skills. Str 13 - Adds +1 to melee attacks, damage, strength checks, AND +2 to climb, jump and swim skills. Str 14 - Adds +2 to melee attacks, damage, strength checks, climb, jump and swim skills. Str 15 - Adds +2 to melee attacks, damage, strength checks, AND +3 to climb, jump and swim skills. And so on.... In other words, in regard to skills, treat ability score as one point higher. That should deal with that useless 11s, 13s and 15s.
SykeXero 05-27-04, 12:30 PM	I know about the ability damage padding and prerequisets but, it was a monday and I couldn't think of a way to properly post my ideas. Szatany- I think your Idea is pretty good. I will try it out a bit. P.S. - You ultimate classes are cool... Greyman- As for prereqs, the DMG specificly states that PrCs should not have ability scores as prerequisets. Nothing major but still something.
Gnome of Power 05-27-04, 10:35 PM	As for prereqs, the DMG specificly states that PrCs should not have ability scores as prerequisets. Nothing major but still something. this is only for prestige classes... not feats the solution is to use decimals (15=2.5, 17=3.5...) then use decimals for other stuff such as base attack bonus and saves (Wizard base attack bonus would go 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3...) then when a 3rd level wizard has 11 strength he/she gets +2 instead of +1 If he/she has 15 wisdom he/she gets +6 will (+2.5 wis and +3.5 base) do you get it? It makes things a bit more complicated but it is worth it
Angered Roach 05-28-04, 10:16 AM	Hmm...how about this one...in a simple step by step process! Yay! 1. Take the Elite Array, arrange as desired. 2. Choose 3 stats. 3. Roll a d4 and apply it to each of those three. 4. 18 maximum. So if a player rolled a 4 to apply to his 15, he wouldn't get a 19, he'd instead have a single bonus point he could apply elsewhere. For example, Bobby the Barbarian plunks down his 8 in charisma, his 15 in strength, and his 14 in constitution. He decides to roll for each of these, wanting STR and CON high, and not wanting to be completely socially inept softens the blow to his dump stats. For his 15 he rolls a 4, an 18! Bobby is very happy, and applies the one bonus point to constitution, making it 15. Bobby's lucky day! He rolls a 4 again! He takes the one extra bonus from this and applies to his dexterity which was odd and could use the boost. I have yet to playtest this system, but it seems workable.
Stuntman 05-31-04, 04:43 PM	I was thinking about the odd numbered ability scores. Another way of making them count is to apply the fractions to skills as well. (Actually, you can apply them to any roll using d20's.) If you have a cross class skill with half a rank, the odd numbered ability bonus gives you an extra 0.5. That way if you spend 5 SP on a cc skill, you have 2.5 ranks and if your ability is 11, then you get a +0.5 which makes your skill modifier a +3.0. You can expand this to saving throws, BAB, and any other type of check that uses a d20. You can also try it for damage. A str of 13 you get do an extra 1.5 pts of damage. If you keep track of half points of damage, every two hits you get +3 damage. Overall, I feel that I can run a game that keeps track of the fractional values. However, for most players, I feel that it is not worth the trouble. If everyone in your group is really nit picky about things and want to get everything right down to the last fraction, then and only then should you even think about doing this.
trotzflocke 05-31-04, 05:19 PM	You could even do something more drastical: Drop ability scores. Just use bonuses. Ability scores are not needed for much anyway. All items , races and spells that give ability score bonuses give you an even number. So a cat's grace effectively raises your dex bonus by two. No need to bother with the actual ability score. Character creation could be something like this: Each ability bonus starts at -1. Players can ditribute 15 points worth of bonuses on the abilities Maximum is +4. Similar to the point-distribution system from the DMG. Raising a bonus over +2 costs double. Players can raise a bonus by +1 every 8 (or 6 or 4) levels, or whatever suits you. Only piece of work that remains is adjusting the prerequisites for feats and spells, but that should be simple. You would never ever have to worry about odd ability scores again. ;)
Adrez Nesnsid 05-31-04, 06:54 PM	Originally posted by SykeXero My single biggest complaint with DnD in general is the fact that with the standard ability score system is that there isn't enough of a bonus from having a 15 as opposed to a 14. Is there anyone out there who agrees that this system is a little messed up? I would like some help designing a system that is very similar but take advantage of finer ability score res. ... I have thought about this same problem myself, and I came up with the idea for a perfect solution when I got "Unearthed Arcana": Under my solution, your modifier for each ability would be equal toAbility score minus ten) times one half ( (Ability Score-10)x0.5 ); DO NOT ROUND IT OFF This is basically how the modifier is determined already; however, under the standard system, an extra +.5 is inconsequential; HOWEVER, if you use the fractional saving throw and Base Attack Bonus Progressions from UA, and/or if you're maxing out your ranks in a cross class skill (which are purchased one half of a rank at a time remember) it becomes meaningful. For example, say that, for instance: a second level wizard has 2.5 ranks in Tumble, and a Dex score of 11; Under the normal system that would give her a tumble modifier of +2, but under MY system would give her a tumble modifier of +3 (2.5 ranks + 0.5 Dex modifier = 3). What do you think?
Adrez Nesnsid 05-31-04, 06:55 PM	Oh crud! Somebody already posted that idea! Oh well...