Action Point system? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Action Point system? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sadrx
12-14-06, 06:49 PM In my last campaign, I rather ambiguously used action points. In a single discussion with the players, I loosely defined how a character could earn them and what a character could use them for. That didn't get me anywhere, however. I only gave out two over the entire nine-level campaign and neither were ever used. I suspected that since we thought about them so informally, we just often forgot about them.

To amend that, I'm looking to apply an interesting system for action points for my next game to more concretely describe what they can accomplish for the characters. The system I decided upon is described below:

ACTION POINTS

Characters receive action points and action maneuvers. The points are tokens that can be collected and spent on the maneuvers -- but only on maneuvers that the character has already acquired. Action points are one-time items that are lost once they are spent. Action maneuvers are each a specific ability or benefit that characters can use when an action point is spent. A maneuver is never lost once it is gained but can only be used if a point is spent on it.

In this way, a characters' pool of available action maneuvers slowly grows while his pool of available action points is constantly in flux as they are gained and spent.

Contrary to their name, action points do not necessarily require any action on the characters part when they are used. Spending a point on a maneuver is something players do when furthering the story of their characters. Some maneuvers, however, necessitate that the character take an action of some sort in the game.

Characters begin play with 2 action points and and gain two more every time they level thereafter.

This number is strongly dependent on the nature of your individual game. DMs should asses what percentage of character experience comes from combat in their games and what percentage of their combats they want to contain these added maneuvers to determine how many should be awarded per level. Whatever the number, it should be consistent throughout because the maneuvers themselves should be equally effective at all levels.

No more than 1 action point can be spent per round.

Every character receives the action maneuver Second Chance at first level. Characters also receive an additional action maneuver of their choice at levels 2, 4, 7, 10, 14, and 19.

Level Action Maneuvers
------------------------
1 Second Chance
2 2nd
3 --
4 3rd
5 --
6 --
7 4th
8 --
9 --
10 5th
11 --
12 --
13 --
14 6th
15 --
16 --
17 --
18 --
19 7th
20 --I chose these levels because aside from level 1 and 4, these are all empty levels for progression, that is, characters gain neither a feat nor an ability score increase at the levels where they gain maneuvers. As well, the slowing gain of maneuvers allows mid-level heroes to have a good selection while keeping high-level heroes from being over-powered with a much larger selection.

Action maneuvers fall into two categories: those that can only be used on your turn, and those that can be used on anyone's turn. Most of the maneuvers that can be used on anyone's turn can interrupt another's actions and are usually designed for this since one, for instance, might allow you a bonus on a roll you must make in reaction to someone else. Maneuvers like Burst of Speed and Heroic Breath, however, cannot interrupt some actions even though they can be used on another's turn. These maneuvers can never interrupt a single declared attack or spell, for instance, but can be resolved in the middle of another's move action or full-attack action.

ACTION MANEUVERS

-Ability Rush-
1 Action point
On anyone's turn
For one full round, choose to either increase one ability score by your level or two ability scores by half your level.

-Action Surge-
1 Action point
On your turn
Complete a standard action as a swift action provided you take no other standard actions this turn.

-Burst of Speed-
1 Action point
On anyone's turn
Immediately take a move action. You provoke attacks of opportunity as normal. This maneuver cannot interrupt some actions.

-Epiphany Training-
1 Action point
On anyone's turn
For one full round, you may receive the benefits of one feat you don't have provided you still meet the prerequisites for that feat.

-Extra Adjustment-
1 Action point
On anyone's turn
Take a 5-foot step. This maneuver cannot interrupt some actions.

-Heroic Breather-
1 Action Point
On anyone's turn
Immediately heal 1d4 + 1/2 your Constitution modifier in points of damage per level and make a restricted withdraw action. You can only take free actions (like speaking) until the end of your next turn. If your Constitution modifier is negative, it might reduce the amount you heal. This maneuver cannot interrupt some actions.

-Hero's Accomplishment-
1 Action point
On anyone's turn
Receive a bonus on your next skill check equal to twice your level.

-Great Charge-
1 Action point
On your turn
On a charge, treat your attack roll as a natural 20.

-Lucky Try-
1 Action point
On anyone's turn
After making a roll, but before the DM informs you of the outcome, you may decide to add a bonus to the roll equal to your level.

-Meditated Attack-
1 Action point
On your turn
Give up your turn to do nothing but study one target within 30 feet. Treat your next attack roll against that target is a natural 20.

-Nine Lives-
1 Action point
On anyone's turn
If you were reduced to -10 hit points or less this round or were slain by some other means, you are instead alive, though disabled, and at 0 hit points. Your DM may wish to limit the number of times this action maneuver can be used to nine.

-Second Chance-
1 Action Point
On anyone's turn
Re-roll one roll after discovering the outcome. You may elect to keep the original result if the second is worse.

-Spontaneous Magician-
1 Action Point
On your turn
Your next casting of a spell or use of a one-time magic item or a magic item with charges does not use up your spell slot or a use of the item. This maneuver can even allow you to cast a spell if all slots are spent (but the spell must have been previously prepared for casters who do that) or use a charge on a drained magic item.

-Stall for Time-
1 Action point
On your turn
Give up a full-round action or standard action to do nothing but address a creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. Make a Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate skill check -- your choice -- opposed by your target's Will saving throw. Your target gets a +10 on it's saving throw if it doesn't speak your language. If your check result beats your target's saving throw roll, he must likewise give up a full-round action or standard action (depending on which you gave up) doing nothing but responding to you on his next turn. If your target is attacked before his next turn, he is allowed a second saving throw to avoid the effects.

-Swift to Act-
1 Action point
On anyone's turn
Change your initiative count to 20 plus your initiative modifier.

As it stands now, each maneuver costs only 1 action point to use. I included this as a notion, however, because I'm considering the idea of including some maneuvers that cost 2 action points. There are, however, two problems with this idea:

1) This would break the very necessary rule that only one action point may be used per round, and without it, characters might be much too overpowered by being able to use an ability as tough as a 2-action-point maneuver along with their regular actions in a single round.

2) Depending on how many action points are given out in the game, a 2-point maneuver might be too scarcely used to be worth choosing.

If I allow 2-point maneuvers, I've compiled the following list:

Optional Rule: Instead of 1 action point per round, characters may instead use only single action maneuver per round.

-Combat Rush-
2 Action points
On your turn
Take a full-attack action as swift action.

-Great Attack-
2 Action points
On anyone's turn
Treat your next attack roll as a natural 20 that is automatically confirmed to be a critical hit.

-Greater Action Surge-
2 Action points
On anyone's turn
Immediately take a standard action. This maneuver cannot interrupt some actions.

-Heroic Surge-
0 Action points
On anyone's turn
You can use two 1-point action maneuvers in the same round. If you use the same maneuver twice, it's effects may stack.
Tell me what you think of such a system. Obviously implementing it directly increases the power of the PCs and that would need to be accounted for, but how do you think it would work in your group?

A couple things I'm particularly interested in:
-Can you suggest any maneuvers?
-Do you have any comments about the balance of the maneuvers I've included?
-Is the automatic maneuver at first level good, or would Lucky Try or a free choice be better?

Thanks.
Gilean
12-16-06, 10:12 AM The problem is players not using action points (I assume they are some sort of hero/luck/fate/plot point reserve).

This is somewhat recurring problem for people who come from D&D and are introduced to other RPGs, many of which have similar resources.

Some ways to handle this: Use visible tokens. Poker chips. Marbles. Funny-coloured dice. Cookies (you can eat the cookie after you use the point). Something you can handle to the players when they are playing well and something they can manipulate and will remember with ease.

If your players are very immersive, they might simply ignore all similar rules if they don't see their character perceiving those rules. If this is the case, you are out of luck.
Fireclave
12-16-06, 11:54 AM Our group has this problem as well. We would have the action points to burn, but kept forgetting to burn them. So I've took it upon myself to remember at every oportunity to use them. Now that they've seen them in action, the rest of my group tends to use them a bit more often.

The best thing to do is just remind them every noce in a while that they have action points. If they really need to make their next save, attack roll, caster level check, just remind them that they have the option of using their action points. It also really helps if your players write down on their character sheets how many action points they have. If you happen to spy that you have a few action points left while checking your skill, spell, and feat options, the more likely you will be to incorporate them into your strategy.

However, you giving out so few action points is probably part of the problem. This creates a situation where you have this powerful, one-time chance to completely change events in your favor. So when exactly do you use this power? Once you use it, it's gone for good. What if you need it later. What if you use your only action point on the necromancer that wasn't the final boss? What if the final boss is a vampire dragon. Well, sucks to be you then since you already spent your only action point. Game over man!

All that said, you might want to look at the action point system used in Eberron. You get a set amount of non-replenishable action points at each level to spend whenever you need them (something like 5 + 1/2HD). They don't carry over when you level up, so players have an incentive to spend them. They're either use 'em or lose 'em. Also, there are several feats and class features that allow you to get more out of your action points. The Action Surge feat, for example, allows you to spend two action points to get an additional action that round.

All that said, the manuvers you listed here are pretty powerful and probably worthy of being feats. However, since you only give out 2 points/level, that's understandable.
Sadrx
12-18-06, 08:37 PM The best thing to do is just remind them every noce in a while that they have action points. If they really need to make their next save, attack roll, caster level check, just remind them that they have the option of using their action points. It also really helps if your players write down on their character sheets how many action points they have. If you happen to spy that you have a few action points left while checking your skill, spell, and feat options, the more likely you will be to incorporate them into your strategy.I'm hoping that by incoporating the maneuvers mechanic and a consistent supply of action points, the players will feel that the maneuvers they have access to and action point total they have are all a part of their character. If that succeeds, they'll hopfully not forget about what their characters can accomplish by spending a point.

However, you giving out so few action points is probably part of the problem. This creates a situation where you have this powerful, one-time chance to completely change events in your favor. So when exactly do you use this power? Once you use it, it's gone for good. What if you need it later. What if you use your only action point on the necromancer that wasn't the final boss? What if the final boss is a vampire dragon. Well, sucks to be you then since you already spent your only action point. Game over man!

All that said, you might want to look at the action point system used in Eberron. You get a set amount of non-replenishable action points at each level to spend whenever you need them (something like 5 + 1/2HD). They don't carry over when you level up, so players have an incentive to spend them. They're either use 'em or lose 'em. Also, there are several feats and class features that allow you to get more out of your action points. The Action Surge feat, for example, allows you to spend two action points to get an additional action that round.I think that is defintiely something I need to consider. A renewable, non-stackable point total would better encourage my players to spend their action points off at each level, especially since the characters usually level at a perdictable rate in my games. My only issue with that system is then players will declare the use of their action points at less heroic times. In truth, I'm hoping that for those conservative players, once they've got a few points in the bank -- and the number raises by 2 every level -- they'll save some for those rainy days but then regularly use the rest.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sadrx 12-14-06, 06:49 PM	In my last campaign, I rather ambiguously used action points. In a single discussion with the players, I loosely defined how a character could earn them and what a character could use them for. That didn't get me anywhere, however. I only gave out two over the entire nine-level campaign and neither were ever used. I suspected that since we thought about them so informally, we just often forgot about them. To amend that, I'm looking to apply an interesting system for action points for my next game to more concretely describe what they can accomplish for the characters. The system I decided upon is described below: ACTION POINTS Characters receive action points and action maneuvers. The points are tokens that can be collected and spent on the maneuvers -- but only on maneuvers that the character has already acquired. Action points are one-time items that are lost once they are spent. Action maneuvers are each a specific ability or benefit that characters can use when an action point is spent. A maneuver is never lost once it is gained but can only be used if a point is spent on it. In this way, a characters' pool of available action maneuvers slowly grows while his pool of available action points is constantly in flux as they are gained and spent. Contrary to their name, action points do not necessarily require any action on the characters part when they are used. Spending a point on a maneuver is something players do when furthering the story of their characters. Some maneuvers, however, necessitate that the character take an action of some sort in the game. Characters begin play with 2 action points and and gain two more every time they level thereafter. This number is strongly dependent on the nature of your individual game. DMs should asses what percentage of character experience comes from combat in their games and what percentage of their combats they want to contain these added maneuvers to determine how many should be awarded per level. Whatever the number, it should be consistent throughout because the maneuvers themselves should be equally effective at all levels. No more than 1 action point can be spent per round. Every character receives the action maneuver Second Chance at first level. Characters also receive an additional action maneuver of their choice at levels 2, 4, 7, 10, 14, and 19. Level Action Maneuvers ------------------------ 1 Second Chance 2 2nd 3 -- 4 3rd 5 -- 6 -- 7 4th 8 -- 9 -- 10 5th 11 -- 12 -- 13 -- 14 6th 15 -- 16 -- 17 -- 18 -- 19 7th 20 --I chose these levels because aside from level 1 and 4, these are all empty levels for progression, that is, characters gain neither a feat nor an ability score increase at the levels where they gain maneuvers. As well, the slowing gain of maneuvers allows mid-level heroes to have a good selection while keeping high-level heroes from being over-powered with a much larger selection. Action maneuvers fall into two categories: those that can only be used on your turn, and those that can be used on anyone's turn. Most of the maneuvers that can be used on anyone's turn can interrupt another's actions and are usually designed for this since one, for instance, might allow you a bonus on a roll you must make in reaction to someone else. Maneuvers like Burst of Speed and Heroic Breath, however, cannot interrupt some actions even though they can be used on another's turn. These maneuvers can never interrupt a single declared attack or spell, for instance, but can be resolved in the middle of another's move action or full-attack action. ACTION MANEUVERS -Ability Rush- 1 Action point On anyone's turn For one full round, choose to either increase one ability score by your level or two ability scores by half your level. -Action Surge- 1 Action point On your turn Complete a standard action as a swift action provided you take no other standard actions this turn. -Burst of Speed- 1 Action point On anyone's turn Immediately take a move action. You provoke attacks of opportunity as normal. This maneuver cannot interrupt some actions. -Epiphany Training- 1 Action point On anyone's turn For one full round, you may receive the benefits of one feat you don't have provided you still meet the prerequisites for that feat. -Extra Adjustment- 1 Action point On anyone's turn Take a 5-foot step. This maneuver cannot interrupt some actions. -Heroic Breather- 1 Action Point On anyone's turn Immediately heal 1d4 + 1/2 your Constitution modifier in points of damage per level and make a restricted withdraw action. You can only take free actions (like speaking) until the end of your next turn. If your Constitution modifier is negative, it might reduce the amount you heal. This maneuver cannot interrupt some actions. -Hero's Accomplishment- 1 Action point On anyone's turn Receive a bonus on your next skill check equal to twice your level. -Great Charge- 1 Action point On your turn On a charge, treat your attack roll as a natural 20. -Lucky Try- 1 Action point On anyone's turn After making a roll, but before the DM informs you of the outcome, you may decide to add a bonus to the roll equal to your level. -Meditated Attack- 1 Action point On your turn Give up your turn to do nothing but study one target within 30 feet. Treat your next attack roll against that target is a natural 20. -Nine Lives- 1 Action point On anyone's turn If you were reduced to -10 hit points or less this round or were slain by some other means, you are instead alive, though disabled, and at 0 hit points. Your DM may wish to limit the number of times this action maneuver can be used to nine. -Second Chance- 1 Action Point On anyone's turn Re-roll one roll after discovering the outcome. You may elect to keep the original result if the second is worse. -Spontaneous Magician- 1 Action Point On your turn Your next casting of a spell or use of a one-time magic item or a magic item with charges does not use up your spell slot or a use of the item. This maneuver can even allow you to cast a spell if all slots are spent (but the spell must have been previously prepared for casters who do that) or use a charge on a drained magic item. -Stall for Time- 1 Action point On your turn Give up a full-round action or standard action to do nothing but address a creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. Make a Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate skill check -- your choice -- opposed by your target's Will saving throw. Your target gets a +10 on it's saving throw if it doesn't speak your language. If your check result beats your target's saving throw roll, he must likewise give up a full-round action or standard action (depending on which you gave up) doing nothing but responding to you on his next turn. If your target is attacked before his next turn, he is allowed a second saving throw to avoid the effects. -Swift to Act- 1 Action point On anyone's turn Change your initiative count to 20 plus your initiative modifier. As it stands now, each maneuver costs only 1 action point to use. I included this as a notion, however, because I'm considering the idea of including some maneuvers that cost 2 action points. There are, however, two problems with this idea: 1) This would break the very necessary rule that only one action point may be used per round, and without it, characters might be much too overpowered by being able to use an ability as tough as a 2-action-point maneuver along with their regular actions in a single round. 2) Depending on how many action points are given out in the game, a 2-point maneuver might be too scarcely used to be worth choosing. If I allow 2-point maneuvers, I've compiled the following list: Optional Rule: Instead of 1 action point per round, characters may instead use only single action maneuver per round. -Combat Rush- 2 Action points On your turn Take a full-attack action as swift action. -Great Attack- 2 Action points On anyone's turn Treat your next attack roll as a natural 20 that is automatically confirmed to be a critical hit. -Greater Action Surge- 2 Action points On anyone's turn Immediately take a standard action. This maneuver cannot interrupt some actions. -Heroic Surge- 0 Action points On anyone's turn You can use two 1-point action maneuvers in the same round. If you use the same maneuver twice, it's effects may stack. Tell me what you think of such a system. Obviously implementing it directly increases the power of the PCs and that would need to be accounted for, but how do you think it would work in your group? A couple things I'm particularly interested in: -Can you suggest any maneuvers? -Do you have any comments about the balance of the maneuvers I've included? -Is the automatic maneuver at first level good, or would Lucky Try or a free choice be better? Thanks.
Gilean 12-16-06, 10:12 AM	The problem is players not using action points (I assume they are some sort of hero/luck/fate/plot point reserve). This is somewhat recurring problem for people who come from D&D and are introduced to other RPGs, many of which have similar resources. Some ways to handle this: Use visible tokens. Poker chips. Marbles. Funny-coloured dice. Cookies (you can eat the cookie after you use the point). Something you can handle to the players when they are playing well and something they can manipulate and will remember with ease. If your players are very immersive, they might simply ignore all similar rules if they don't see their character perceiving those rules. If this is the case, you are out of luck.
Fireclave 12-16-06, 11:54 AM	Our group has this problem as well. We would have the action points to burn, but kept forgetting to burn them. So I've took it upon myself to remember at every oportunity to use them. Now that they've seen them in action, the rest of my group tends to use them a bit more often. The best thing to do is just remind them every noce in a while that they have action points. If they really need to make their next save, attack roll, caster level check, just remind them that they have the option of using their action points. It also really helps if your players write down on their character sheets how many action points they have. If you happen to spy that you have a few action points left while checking your skill, spell, and feat options, the more likely you will be to incorporate them into your strategy. However, you giving out so few action points is probably part of the problem. This creates a situation where you have this powerful, one-time chance to completely change events in your favor. So when exactly do you use this power? Once you use it, it's gone for good. What if you need it later. What if you use your only action point on the necromancer that wasn't the final boss? What if the final boss is a vampire dragon. Well, sucks to be you then since you already spent your only action point. Game over man! All that said, you might want to look at the action point system used in Eberron. You get a set amount of non-replenishable action points at each level to spend whenever you need them (something like 5 + 1/2HD). They don't carry over when you level up, so players have an incentive to spend them. They're either use 'em or lose 'em. Also, there are several feats and class features that allow you to get more out of your action points. The Action Surge feat, for example, allows you to spend two action points to get an additional action that round. All that said, the manuvers you listed here are pretty powerful and probably worthy of being feats. However, since you only give out 2 points/level, that's understandable.
Sadrx 12-18-06, 08:37 PM	The best thing to do is just remind them every noce in a while that they have action points. If they really need to make their next save, attack roll, caster level check, just remind them that they have the option of using their action points. It also really helps if your players write down on their character sheets how many action points they have. If you happen to spy that you have a few action points left while checking your skill, spell, and feat options, the more likely you will be to incorporate them into your strategy.I'm hoping that by incoporating the maneuvers mechanic and a consistent supply of action points, the players will feel that the maneuvers they have access to and action point total they have are all a part of their character. If that succeeds, they'll hopfully not forget about what their characters can accomplish by spending a point. However, you giving out so few action points is probably part of the problem. This creates a situation where you have this powerful, one-time chance to completely change events in your favor. So when exactly do you use this power? Once you use it, it's gone for good. What if you need it later. What if you use your only action point on the necromancer that wasn't the final boss? What if the final boss is a vampire dragon. Well, sucks to be you then since you already spent your only action point. Game over man! All that said, you might want to look at the action point system used in Eberron. You get a set amount of non-replenishable action points at each level to spend whenever you need them (something like 5 + 1/2HD). They don't carry over when you level up, so players have an incentive to spend them. They're either use 'em or lose 'em. Also, there are several feats and class features that allow you to get more out of your action points. The Action Surge feat, for example, allows you to spend two action points to get an additional action that round.I think that is defintiely something I need to consider. A renewable, non-stackable point total would better encourage my players to spend their action points off at each level, especially since the characters usually level at a perdictable rate in my games. My only issue with that system is then players will declare the use of their action points at less heroic times. In truth, I'm hoping that for those conservative players, once they've got a few points in the bank -- and the number raises by 2 every level -- they'll save some for those rainy days but then regularly use the rest.