Action points and metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Action points and metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ghorrin
02-21-04, 10:42 AM Hey there,

So, an action point can be spent to emulate a particular feat for 1 round, as long as you meet any prerequisites. Now, if you use this to emulate a metamagic feat, that feat can't then be applied to a prepared spell, right? e.g., Jozan has flame strike prepared; he can't spend an AP to gain Empower Spell and lay that feat on that spell. My interpretation is that use of an action point to emulate a metamagic feat is only effective with spells that can be spontaneously cast (sorcerors, bards, clerics' cure/inflict, and druids' summons). So, Jozan could spend an action point, gain Empower Spell, and lose that flame strike to spontaneously cast an empowered cure serious wounds. He couldn't use an AP to just on-the-spot lay an empower on the flame strike without having the feat in the first place.

Have I got this right?

Later on,
Ghorrin
DragonWatcher
02-21-04, 03:51 PM Seems like sound logic to me. For classes that prepare spells, if they want to use a metamagic feat on a particular spell, they have to prepare it with the feat (so it takes up a higher level slot that they have access to). So, if at the time of preparation, they don't have that feat, they can't prepare the spell to fill the appropriate slot.

So then, could they spend the Action Point to emulate the particular metamagic feat when they are preparing their spells and prepare the spell in a higher level slot? Well... nope. Since preparing spells takes more than a single round, and spending an Action Point only gives you access to a feat for one round, you can't get around the rules to do this either.

So basically, while spontaneous casters seem to have a bit of an edge in this way, Action Points are rare enough that if you want to use metamagic at all, you should really just get the feat.
Zaebos
02-22-04, 05:41 PM Unless you play with AP's and Spontaneous Metamagic.

But i don't see this as overpowered either. AP's are finite, and don't replenish quickly at all. Every time someone uses an AP, it means that they are not going to be able to recover that AP later, so in the end, it seems fine to me. AP's are there to help players in a jam, so if they use them irresponsibly, then thats their problem.

AP's balance themselves out I think.
Cranus
02-23-04, 12:43 AM My interpretation was that if the spellcaster had the feat, it could then with an AP cast a spell as if it was prepared in accordance to the feat. The didn't actually prepare the spell at a higher level as the AP simulates that. Likewise, spontaneous casters don't have to cast for a full round.
cheatlord
02-23-04, 01:45 PM You can spend 1 AP to add a metamagic (that you have the feat!) to any of your spell that you prepared. The spell level remains the same.
This is nice!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ghorrin 02-21-04, 10:42 AM	Hey there, So, an action point can be spent to emulate a particular feat for 1 round, as long as you meet any prerequisites. Now, if you use this to emulate a metamagic feat, that feat can't then be applied to a prepared spell, right? e.g., Jozan has flame strike prepared; he can't spend an AP to gain Empower Spell and lay that feat on that spell. My interpretation is that use of an action point to emulate a metamagic feat is only effective with spells that can be spontaneously cast (sorcerors, bards, clerics' cure/inflict, and druids' summons). So, Jozan could spend an action point, gain Empower Spell, and lose that flame strike to spontaneously cast an empowered cure serious wounds. He couldn't use an AP to just on-the-spot lay an empower on the flame strike without having the feat in the first place. Have I got this right? Later on, Ghorrin
DragonWatcher 02-21-04, 03:51 PM	Seems like sound logic to me. For classes that prepare spells, if they want to use a metamagic feat on a particular spell, they have to prepare it with the feat (so it takes up a higher level slot that they have access to). So, if at the time of preparation, they don't have that feat, they can't prepare the spell to fill the appropriate slot. So then, could they spend the Action Point to emulate the particular metamagic feat when they are preparing their spells and prepare the spell in a higher level slot? Well... nope. Since preparing spells takes more than a single round, and spending an Action Point only gives you access to a feat for one round, you can't get around the rules to do this either. So basically, while spontaneous casters seem to have a bit of an edge in this way, Action Points are rare enough that if you want to use metamagic at all, you should really just get the feat.
Zaebos 02-22-04, 05:41 PM	Unless you play with AP's and Spontaneous Metamagic. But i don't see this as overpowered either. AP's are finite, and don't replenish quickly at all. Every time someone uses an AP, it means that they are not going to be able to recover that AP later, so in the end, it seems fine to me. AP's are there to help players in a jam, so if they use them irresponsibly, then thats their problem. AP's balance themselves out I think.
Cranus 02-23-04, 12:43 AM	My interpretation was that if the spellcaster had the feat, it could then with an AP cast a spell as if it was prepared in accordance to the feat. The didn't actually prepare the spell at a higher level as the AP simulates that. Likewise, spontaneous casters don't have to cast for a full round.
cheatlord 02-23-04, 01:45 PM	You can spend 1 AP to add a metamagic (that you have the feat!) to any of your spell that you prepared. The spell level remains the same. This is nice!