Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Deathmage 03-23-04, 12:48 AM	I recentaly added action points to my game, mainly because i thought they were awsome. But as i've looked at the powers of the points, and the fact that the party isn't using them to much, very soon there is going to be an unbalancing of the power of the classes more then usual. One option is to add a metamagic feat to a spell. It is done isntantly, and brings problems up. as the 2 sorcs get higher and higher in levels, this ability becomes more and more powerful. eventually they will be able to cast 9th level spells, (eventually) and then they will go "MAX METEOR SWARM!" and everything gets hurt a lot. I would like to keep action points in the game, but then the sorcs will make the game more unbalanced then it already is for spell casters. Any suggestions?
Tisner44 03-23-04, 01:19 AM	After reading the action points I liked the idea, but thought they got too many. Every lev they should get a set amount or maybe (1+.5lev)all divided by 2. They should get an automatic 5 to start out with. This would make them more careful about using them and allow them to just get out of trouble when in very bad situations. You could leave it at 5 per level and if they hoarded them correctly then they could have quite of few at high levels without way out doing the NPCs.
Part-Human2 03-23-04, 01:20 AM	Disallow the use of action points for anything other than just adding to D20 rolls.
stone_dog 03-23-04, 01:24 AM	Go through the list of things you can do with AP. Cut the ones you don't like and make a list of the ones that you do. I'm using AP in my game, but with only a few options. Aside from adding to a roll they can do these actions; activate a class ability, spell boost, spell recall and stable. I am thinking about letting them improve feats as per the rules too, but that might be a bit complicated. Also the unused points don't roll over to the next level in my game. A character who just turned level ten gets ten AP no matter if he never spent a point in the entire career. That keeps them from building up a mass of points for that meteor swarm.
Deathmage 03-23-04, 01:41 AM	well, thanks for the speedy replies, considering i'm annoucing what i'm doing tomorrow, this will help. Anyway, after reviewing the responses, i think i'm going to go with the stone_dog's idea, and not let the points roll over from level to level, and i'm going to do one more thing. I'm not going to let spell casters add a metamagic feat if the spell is already inhanced by a metamagic feat Thanks everyone.
Lina_Inverse 03-23-04, 11:56 AM	action points are more powerful not overpowered,overpowered implys you lose something which you dont besides max meteos are the least of your worrys,if my pcs actully used meteo id be afraid they were plotting something....
NorthSaber 03-23-04, 03:02 PM	I'm with Tisner44 - reduce the amount of action points gained, and the players will start saving them up for life-and-death situations only. I was thinking of giving them 5 to begin with, and give 1 more every time they level up. The 5 initial action points would make the low-level survival more likely, but after that if the PCs use more than 1 action point per character level, they're depleting their reserves. IMO the action points weren't meant to increase the power-level of the campaign, but instead to allow the occasional (read "rare") acts of heroism and/or the chance to survive against impossible odds. (I also don't allow action points to be used with feats, but that's another story.)
77IM 03-23-04, 03:16 PM	Another variant: Give out APs per session. Each character gets 3 action points per gaming session -- use them or lose them. (In a really long session, they might get more.) Other game systems sometimes use this mechanic; it encourages a more even use of APs and can re-balance unexpectedly difficult adventures without requiring the use of permanent resources. More advice: Encourage your PCs to use their APs and consider them when building a character. For example, I am playing a barbarian 2/battle sorcerer 1 headed for Dragon Disciple, and I thought about taking the "Extra Rage" feat, but decided against it because I can just use APs to get more rages. Similarly, metamagic feats are not that good, for a variety of reasons -- if I were you I would encourage the use of APs to enhance spells with metamagic feats. Then, by the time your characters get 9th-level spells, they won't have a big pile APs left. Remember that you can scale up the difficulty of the game to match your players; the use of APs for saving throws is particularly common in my game. -- 77IM
Lady Ishtar 03-23-04, 08:57 PM	here is the best use of AP i have seen you get only few AP pre session, based on level, and the die you roll depends on lvl, something along these lines lvl #AP die 1-6 3 d4 7-12 4 d6 13+ 5 d8 you can use AP to add to any roll, including damage, BUT... confirming a crit costs 1 AP, but you dont have to roll to confirm (this works mainly b/c there are high level feats that allow you to auto-confirm crits) you can use AP to add to your AC, heal yourself you can spend them to activate a crit failure on an npc you are still limited to using 1/round and the DM gets 2 AP per PC, all d12s hope this helps
MarkusH 03-24-04, 05:16 PM	One variant I'm using for my modern game is that your action points equal 1 + CHA per week, +1 for every 3 levels. (After all, being heroic means looking good while saving the world.) It encourages the players to not use Charisma as their dump stat, and boosts an attribute that really needs boosting, especially in modern games. I also have a feat, Lucky. +1 action points per week. None of my players have picked it up yet, but it seems balanced. In fact, I've been thinking of taking it up to +2 AP per week, as encouragement for the players.
bitnine 03-24-04, 06:19 PM	Originally posted by MarkusH One variant I'm using for my modern game is that your action points equal 1 + CHA per week, +1 for every 3 levels. (After all, being heroic means looking good while saving the world.) Yeah, in a modern game that I'm in, we've also retooled the action points to be replentished on a weekly basis; it was pretty much necessary since we greatly decreased the speed of levelling. If I added them to my current game, at the very least, I wouldn't allow metamagic to expand beyond the spell level that the character could normally class - that's a general guideline/alteration that I tend to keep for many things that do zany metamagic stuff.
Thelon Fairblade 03-25-04, 08:51 AM	I like the modification of the Lucky feat concept for Action Points! :)
Jack Daniel 03-25-04, 08:57 AM	Here's how I run action points: Player characters recieve 3 + one-half level action points every time they level up. Players recieve 5 + one-half level action points whenever they level up in their favored class (this rule replaces EXP penalties for uneven multiclassing). Action points can be used to do everything described in UA, but some actions are more expensive. It costs 2 APs to emulate a feat you don't have, one-third the level of a spell or psionic power to "recall" it, and one-third the level increase to use boosted metamagic.
Tisner44 03-25-04, 09:17 AM	Increasing the cost of some actions is a good idea...although I don't like the ability to emulate a feat that you don't have. The action points are supposed to be used in emergncy situations, they don't really need all of the options mentioned. Most people seem to be using them as a char ability...they might lose the fear of death if the DM's aren't careful.
WhtKnt 03-25-04, 09:41 AM	Originally posted by Tisner44 After reading the action points I liked the idea, but thought they got too many.This is why I use Action Dice (from AEG's Spycraft) in my D&D game instead of Action Points. Action Dice can be used in a method similar to Action Points, but they are far more limited in number and the PCs only get a set number at the beginning of each adventure and cannot save them to carry over.
Xorial 03-25-04, 10:21 AM	Onw way to handle the metamagic use of action points is to spend a number of action points equal to the level adjustment normally required by the feat. A quickened spell is normally +4 levels. Make them pay 4 pts to use the feat without increasing casting time. That way the use the feats as written most of the time, but when they desperately need it NOW, the can spend the points.
Millennium 03-25-04, 11:49 AM	I renamed Action Points to Plot Points and made my characters take levels in a homebrew "Protagonist" class to get them (d8 hit points, save as monk, BAB as cleric, no class features other than gaining Plot Points, all class skills from any of the character's other classes count as class skills for this class). This seems to allow the mechanics of Action Points to go otherwise untweaked, because the price paid for them is high indeed. Flavor-wise, Protagonists aren't actually aware of their status, but have begun to notice that reality just seems to somehow bend in ways favorable to them sometimes. That's why I gave the Protagonist class three good saves as well; it seems to fit the flavor.
77IM 03-30-04, 11:31 AM	My group recently discovered that the "Extra attack at your highest attack bonus" option is very overpowered. Two low-level fighter-types applying this option can wipe out pretty much any foe in one round. We're starting to get scared of the instant meta-magic too, and my DM is really unhappy about players (me) spending a point to get extra uses of Rage or to cast without spending a spell slot. Therefore, we've restricted the use of action points to simply adding to a d20 roll (the first option), and to stabilize a dying character. The concept is that action points can be used to fudge rolls (saving throws, attack rolls, etc.) but can't be used to "break the rules" (getting an extra attack, metamagicing your top-level spell, using a 1/day ability 4 times in a day, etc.). Basically, the DM isn't going to break the rules and give the ogre an extra attack, but he can fudge die rolls... now players can too. -- 77IM