Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seldriss 04-04-05, 12:31 PM	The explanation of the Action Points in Unearthed Arcana is a little bit confusing. When an AP is used it is lost, OK. When a character gains a level, he gains 5+1/2 level AP, OK. But are these points added to his current total? Or are they replacing his previous total? In other terms, is the total cumulative ou refreshed? The reason for this question is that there is a big difference between the Action Points from Unearthed Arcana and those of Eberron. In Eberron the total is refreshed at each level, whatever points not used are "lost". But this precision is not mentioned in UA. So i am wondering if the new points at levelup are cumulative or not, although it seems to me it would be a lot of AP... Example: Grunt the Barbarian has 5AP at creation. During his first adventure he used 1AP, so he has 4AP left. At the end of the adventure he levels up. What is his new total? 10 (4+6)? or just 6? Any enlightment?
DragonWatcher 04-04-05, 01:34 PM	Action Points from UA work like those in Eberron, or d20 Modern, which is to say that they are use 'em or lose 'em. If Grunt still has 4 APs when he levels, he loses them and gains 5 + current level new APs for a total of 6 (not 10). Others may house rule otherwise, but a character has a total number of APs at each level equal to level + 5. No more, no less.
Seldriss 04-04-05, 01:55 PM	All right, thank you DragonWatcher. That's what i thought, but i wasn't 100% sure, as the UA wasn't very explicite.
Eldermount 04-04-05, 02:09 PM	Action Points from UA work like those in Eberron, or d20 Modern, which is to say that they are use 'em or lose 'em. If Grunt still has 4 APs when he levels, he loses them and gains 5 + current level new APs for a total of 6 (not 10). I don't know about Eberron, but you are incorrect about D20 Modern. In this Bullet Points (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20modern/bp/20041012a) article, we have this question and answer. When a character attains a new level, do the new action points gained stack with any remaining from her prior level? Yes. A hero keeps any unused action points and adds new ones to them.
Seldriss 04-04-05, 02:37 PM	Wow... Isn't that too many of them? If that's the case, it would be fair to give more AP to monsters and NPC too. Not just half their level, but at least 5+1/2 level. And then players would yell... The limitation without stacking from previous levels would avoid this, i suppose...
Eldermount 04-04-05, 03:28 PM	Wow... Isn't that too many of them? If that's the case, it would be fair to give more AP to monsters and NPC too. Not just half their level, but at least 5+1/2 level. And then players would yell... The limitation without stacking from previous levels would avoid this, i suppose... Well, think of this. If you made all the monsters and NPC's from their very beginning and played them out so that when they had to use their action points, that would be fair. But to give monsters and NPC's all the action points that they could potentially earn and assume that they never used a single action point until the point in time that they meet up with the PC's, that wouldn't be fair because the PC's will probably have used up some of their action points by then. Merely adding more action points to the monster or NPC also isn't fair unless you increase the CR of the encounter. Because when you combine all the encounters the PC's will have the monsters/NPC's will have FAR more action points than the party. You are looking at this as a situation where the players never use their action points. If that becomes the case, then there is no point adding them to your campaign. If they do use their action points, then over the long run this won't really be an issue.
Seldriss 04-05-05, 07:55 AM	Point taken, Eldermount... But this is quite confusing: - According to DragonWatcher the points are "Use'em or lose'em", limited to 5+half level. And that's the way they are explained in Eberron manual. - But according to you, Eldermount, they stack. You refer to d20 Modern and Bullet Points, but i don't use these, so i don't know. Maybe the "D&D" Action Points are limited and the "modern" ones are not ??? I have to say that i am more favorable to the limited concept. But i wouldn't want to rob my players ;) Any other opinion, confirming any of these options?
Thelon Fairblade 04-05-05, 10:14 AM	Regarding the NPCs, one DM I know gives himself the action points... that pool is what is available to *all* the NPCs and monsters for the session. Kobolds aren't generally going to be spending the Action Points, but perhaps an appropriate dramatic or suprise moment might imply the use of a point. On the other other hand, the final battle with the kobold king and his hyenadons might see four Action Points spent in a single round... but then the pool is depleted and *none* of the bad guys have points left. As far as the original question, I would say, as GM, it depends on the style of game you want to run. High Cinema all the time? use or lose em. Gritty slogging combat until the final battle, then nearly supernatural heroics? Stack em. For example, last night the 3 level-2 PCs stumbled into a Giant Rat nest. Every couple rounds, another wave of Giant Rats would swarm out of the warrens. The longspear-wielding BattleSorcerer was faced with a decision as a new wave charged in: Spend an Action Point to simulate Combat Reflexes (and thus get AoOs at each charging ROUS), or save it for a "better" moment? If it's "use em or lose em", given that they advance a level every 4 or 5 sessions, he should spend at least 1 Action Point each session. If they accumulate, maybe the later encounter with the creeping evil 2 levels down is when he should use his points, perhaps to recast his limited spells....
Lina_Inverse 04-05-05, 10:32 AM	Point taken, Eldermount... But this is quite confusing: - According to DragonWatcher the points are "Use'em or lose'em", limited to 5+half level. And that's the way they are explained in Eberron manual. - But according to you, Eldermount, they stack. You refer to d20 Modern and Bullet Points, but i don't use these, so i don't know. Maybe the "D&D" Action Points are limited and the "modern" ones are not ??? I have to say that i am more favorable to the limited concept. But i wouldn't want to rob my players ;) Any other opinion, confirming any of these options? NPCs do not get action points by the rules.both in unearthed arcana and ebberon.they are not awesome like pcs. in unearthed arcana,they dont dissipate.however if you arent burning though your pcs action points something is wrong. in ebberon they dissipate.and suck compared to unearthed arcana ones.(can you say quickened wail fo the banshee!)
Seldriss 04-05-05, 10:33 AM	I understand the 2 options can have advantages. And each fits a style of play. The limited amount being more realistic. The stacking amount being more Star Wars or super-heroes style. My own campaigns or modules are usually tough and hardcore. But thats not the goal of my question. Basically, what i want to know are not the pros and cons of each option, but what's the official rule for the total Action Points in Unearthed Arcana: limited to 5+1/2 level or stacking?
Seldriss 04-05-05, 10:43 AM	NPCs do not get action points by the rules.both in unearthed arcana and ebberon.they are not awesome like pcs. in unearthed arcana,they dont dissipate.however if you arent burning though your pcs action points something is wrong. in ebberon they dissipate.and suck compared to unearthed arcana ones.(can you say quickened wail fo the banshee!) I disagree... Unearthed Arcana, page 122: "NPCs and Action Points Most NPCs probably shouldn't have action points, due to the added complexity this would create. In the case of important villains or other significant characters, however, the DM may award them an appropriate number of action points to use against the player characters. A number of action points equal to 1/2 the NPC's level is a good baseline." In other words, regular monsters and NPCs don't get AP, but major mosnters and NPCs do. Exemples: assassins, blackguards, dragons, vampires... It would be unfair and too easy to give AP only to players. NPCs also can acomplish impossible tasks.
Eldermount 04-05-05, 12:47 PM	{snip}... But thats not the goal of my question. Basically, what i want to know are not the pros and cons of each option, but what's the official rule for the total Action Points in Unearthed Arcana: limited to 5+1/2 level or stacking? Well, let's see what it says in UA: Every time a character advances, he gains a number of action points equal to 5 + 1/2 his new character level. Some prestige classes might allow a faster rate of accrual, at the DM's option. Two words to note there: "gains" and "accrual" Gain could mean "to obtain" but that is when you don't have the item to begin with. In context of something that you already possess, it means "to increase". To accrue means "to increase or to accumulate". So clearly, the UA Action Points are meant to add to what you already have, not to be replace what you have.
Seldriss 04-05-05, 01:41 PM	That is not so clear (the UA could be more explicite), but you have a point here...
Eldermount 04-05-05, 04:00 PM	It's no less explicit than in the PHB where it tells you the hit dice and the skill points gained by your class. ;)
Seldriss 04-06-05, 08:01 AM	Hehehe All right. So it looks like the Unearthed Arcana stacks the Action Points level after level, opposed to the Eberron guide which refreshes the total. Why such a difference, i wonder...
Lina_Inverse 04-06-05, 09:29 AM	Hehehe All right. So it looks like the Unearthed Arcana stacks the Action Points level after level, opposed to the Eberron guide which refreshes the total. Why such a difference, i wonder... i remember someone mentioning action man.his dm hadnt seriously challenged the party.he dropped 10action points into the fight.to say the least,the fight did harm the party.
Seldriss 04-06-05, 01:49 PM	Thank you all for your comments, but still, as there are different opinions, i would appreciate more posts, to have an average of the interpretation of the total of Action Points... - Stacking? (+5+1/2level at each level) - Non stacking? (5+1/2 level maximum) An official answer would be nice, for sure. That's why i sent the question to Sage Advice... But if somebody ahs another way to get a faster official response...
Seldriss 04-06-05, 05:07 PM	Well, i asked the question directly to WotC, and just got an answer, a few hours only later... So here it is: Response (XXX X.) 04/06/2005 01:35 PM Thank you for contacting us XXXXXX, It is just like in the Eberron setting. The action points from the previous level are lost. Good Gaming! XXX X. Customer Service Representative Wizards of the Coast 1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada) 425-204-8069 (From all other countries) Monday-Friday 7am-6pm PST / 10am-9pm EST (the Xs are instead of the representative's name and mine) So i have my answer :) The Action Points ARE NOT stacking. That's "Use'em or lose'em" :D
Eldermount 04-07-05, 03:52 PM	And just to show that you can get varied responses from the help desk: Response (-----) 04/06/2005 05:10 PM Thank you for contacting us, Action points do not continue to accrue in any of our published formats, whether D20 Modern, Unearthed Arcana, or Eberron (unless the DM house rules otherwise). They replenish what is lost, they don't stack with points not used. Good Gaming! Since that statement contradicted with two separate d20 Modern Bullet Point articles, I sent another question asking why the discrepancy. The response I got is probably the best and most official answer you'll get: Response (-----) 04/07/2005 10:42 AM Thank you for contacting us. Actually, how action points are dealt with is not ruled consistently between these three books. With regard to d20 Modern, you're correct, they continue to accrue, and you can never lose them if unused. However, this is done differently in Eberron, where it states that any unused action points are lost when a new level is attained. With regard to the action point system provided in Unearthed Arcana, where this is unspecified... if it is used for any other campaign, where the system isn't already built in, like it is in the Eberron Campaign Setting, then it is up to the DM to decide how to deal with unused action points each time a level is gained. Good Gaming! I get the feeling the first person just assumed that they all worked the same way. The second person gave a response that makes sense. There is no "official" way to use the rules for UA, since the point of UA was to be optional/variant rules anyways.
Seldriss 04-07-05, 06:14 PM	Well, i submitted the question Sage Advice too, and got this response today : Dear XXXXXX, Hello. As you might imagine the Sage cannot answer every question put to him, but sometimes one comes across that his lackey (i.e., me) can answer. This is just such the case. Although the rules don't specifically and explicitly state it, they imply that action points are replaced each level with a new set equal to 5 + 1/2 level, just like in Eberron. I hope that helps! XXXX XXXXXXX Assistant Editor Dragon Magazine So... I am satisfied with these two answers i got :) But you are right about one point, Eldermount, in the fact that UA is proposing optionnal rules, which can be accepted/modified by the DM. Which is the case of any rule, anyway ;)