Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aricandor 05-05-07, 03:25 PM	First off, a warning for a massive wall of text. ;) During my time here I've seen lots of people simply using psionics as the only "magic" system and were happy with that. Unfortunately, as I ran the idea by my players they weren't too enthusiastic, feeling that psionics simply has too limited options when it comes to the power lists. After having abandoned the idea entirely, it popped up a while ago that... Why not convert the existing magic system to work on the basis of the psionic system? I've read the spell point variant in Unearthed Arcana, and it wasn't exactly what I was hoping for, so instead I thought to work with the existing magic to make them work under the basis of the psionic rules (sort of). And in the process, hopefully hammer out a few bugs in the system (i.e., clerics and druids). Here's what I have so far (after having filtered out the cumbersome flavor text; my reasoning and justifications are in italics): School:The eight basic schools of magic will remain in place. The Conjuration (healing) school is removed, and all such spells are moved to Necromancy. I never liked the Conjuration (healing) thing they cooked up and rather have healing magic of all kinds be Necromancy. Each to their own, this is mostly cosmetics. Components: Any spell with a somatic and/or verbal component can have the component(s) eschewed by a Concentration check (DC 15 + number of spell points used to create the effect). A somatic component so eschewed will ignore spell failure you have, although the armor check penalty of any armor applies to the Concentration roll to ignore the component. Material or focus components can also make casting easier, though they are easily ignored if a caster invests some of his or her personal energy (XP) into the casting. By expending an amount of experience points equal to one fifth of the material component’s gold value, the caster ignores the component. Focuses can be eschewed in the same way, spending 1/25th of the focus’ gold value in XP. The exceptions are divine focuses, which are strictly necessary in order to channel a god’s power. I had the XP for components mechanics in place as a house rule for sorcerers anyway and after having read many of the components for certain no-cost-component spells... Well, let's just say it doesn't feel very magicy. The spider for Spider Climb anyone? I let the divine focuses remain, since I feel they do add a nice flavor to divine casters. Anyway, the idea here is that components are basically a way to make magic easier for apprentices. A competent spellcaster can do away with it, however I want the Concentration check to skip the components actually mean something, hence the spell point invested being added. Spell Failure: All magic is subject to spell failure imposed by armor, but some classes have trained to mitigate this. Some can simply ignore it while in a certain grade of armor (light, medium or heavy), others are less affected by it (deducting a certain amount from the final spell failure), while others can ignore it completely, whether it’s due to training or to simply casting without a somatic component. A successful Concentration check will also allow you to ignore a somatic component, but trying to do so while wearing armor is difficult, causing your armor check penalty to apply to the Concentration check. A major gripe of mine has always been how divine spellcasters could just ignore spell failure so easily, despite their spell lists in reality not being much worse than that of arcanists. Instead I planned on having each class have separate mechanics how they interact with spell failure. For instance, clerics could ignore up to 40% (number pending; current ones supplied below) of spell failure from armor, while druids could only do away with 30%. Bards would as usual ignore the failure from light armor, while paladins and rangers can ignore all armor failure completely. Feats: Feats and abilities that require the expenditure of spell slots instead require you to expend a number of spell points equal to the spell points required to cast one spell of the appropriate spell level. Instead of altering every single feat that works off such mechanics, I'd rather just try to think of generic rules for conversion. This makes sense to me, but I might have overlooked something. Swapping Spells: Whenever gaining an experience level, a spellcaster may choose to swap a single spell she knows of any spell level for another spell of the same spell level. A temporary mechanic that would be in place until the spell lists have been rationalised down slightly, as to not contain so many narrow-purpose spells. I won't pretend I can go through every single spell immediately and convert them, but rather hoping that testing will help to bake spells with similar purposes together (say, physical skill bonus type spells being baked together into a single spell which you'd spend more points on to get other skill bonuses). Powers to Spells Discipline: Power disciplines are changed to equivalent (or different) spell schools, as described below. Discipline specific powers are generally increased by one level, unless they carry an XP cost. Display: Any power’s displays are changed to a somatic and a verbal component, unless otherwise noted. Spell Points: Unless otherwise noted, a power turned into a spell has a spell point cost equal to the power point cost of the power the spell is based on. Enhancing: Unless otherwise noted, a spell enhances just as the base power augments. The basic conversion rules for making a psionic power a spell instead. Most of the combat use spells will be taken from psionic power lists, which I guess means the mechanics to do that conversion have to be the most fool-proof. "Enhancing" is the replacement term for "augmenting" and merely a flavor choice. I'm still trying to think of a good term (other than "augment", since I don't want it to sound like psionics or my players might run amok; see below). Spells to “Powers” The core psionic terms such as “manifest”, “power”, “psionic focus” and “discipline” are eschewed in favor of the equivalent magic terms; “cast”, “spell”, “arcane focus” and “school”. Component: Any material and focus components are replaced by XP components of 1/5th or 1/25th their gp value respectively. Spell Points: Spells have a spell point cost depending on the spell level you learn it on, as described below. Enhancing: “Augmenting a power” is described as “enhancing a spell”. Few spells gain power with caster level, but rather by expending more spell points to achieve greater effect. As per the psionic system, a spellcaster cannot expend more spell points than her caster level on a single spell, unless special means are employed. Unless otherwise noted, any effect (except for durations and ranges) that normally scale with caster level instead scale the same way by expending additional spell points. For example, if you gain access to a spell as a 2nd level spell normally (3rd caster level), and its effect is improved at 7th and 11th caster level, you pay 3 spell points for the normal effect, 7 for the improved effect and 11+ for the major effect. All caster level caps on spells are removed. A common thing to most psionic powers is that due to the augmentation mechanic, they don't need caster level caps. I like this a lot, since it means that you can get by with level 1 spells that are simply augmented to work as well as high level spells. If you're not afraid of Globes of Invulnerability and the like, of course. I used Scorching Ray as the example, even though it will be removed, just to show how I want the mechanic to work. Also, this means many spell chains will be rendered obsolete or impractical. The spells I've currently modified are: The Summon Monster/Undead/Nature's Ally chains To a single 1st level spell which would be enhanced in order to be as powerful as Summon Whatever II/III/IV... etc. Think Astral Construct but with monster lists. The Cure/Inflict lines of spells Simply turned them into 1st level spells that cure/inflict 4 points of damage per spell point. It was the best way I could think of to preserve a resonably similar average across caster levels. Mass Cure/Inflict wounds are added as well, beginning at 12 HP of damage/healing and adding 3 points per spell point. I couldn't think of a good way to keep a die roll while preserving even remotely similar average values to the standard spells, so this'll have to do for now. Damage spells Single energy damage spells are removed and replaced by the "Energy XYZ" powers converted into spells, and placed in the Evocation school. The exceptions are acid spells (which are put in Conjuration; otherwise maintaining normal effect), Divine spells such as Flame Strike and spells with special side effects such as Ice Storm. Additionally, some single energy damage spells have had the several energy options of psionic powers added to them (Flame Blade, Flaming Sphere and Call Lightning just to name a few). For cosmetics, any "Energy" reference in spell names are changed to "Elemental"; as in "Elemental Ray", "Elemental Wall", "Elemental Bolt" and so on. <do something to> <creature type> Will, insofar it's possible, include enhancements to be able to affect other creature types. I've only been skimming through the druid spell list so far and Charm Animal for instance will be changed into "Charm Nature's Creatures" and be given augments to be able to affect certain other "natureish" creatures. Charm/Dominate/Hold will, as predicted, simply be replaced by the psionic equivalents and/or given enhancements in order to keep them viable and (somewhat) reliable. The Restoration chain of spells A simple "Restoration" spell takes the place of Lesser Restoration, which can be enhanced in order to exactly replicate the effects of Restoration and Greater Restoration, adding XP costs and increasing cast time as appropriate. They're also class restricted, in order to make the same classes have the same "spells" available to them. Ability Enhancers Stuffed together in one physical and one mental enhancer. Spell point enhancements then add the Animal Affinity power option (bonus to more scores) as well as as an option to make them Mass type powers of the same kind. Might make them a little too powerful at some point, but I don't see that happening. After all, enhancement bonuses... Class alterations: Some classes have certain mechanics altered in order to fit with the generic incarnations in the PHB, as follows: Bard Are pretty much the same. Only thing added is that I've given them an Advanced Learning kind of class feature (like that of Warmages and Dread Necromancers), but that's not really part of this whole idea. Cleric A few changes here. First of all, they are affected by spell failure, but can ignore the first 40% (number pending, as I said). Second domains will simply add spells to their spells known, although if a spell is added through, for instance, the Fire domain while being an elemental type spell (Burning Hands for example will be replaced by Energy (Elemental) Arc) will only give the cleric the ability to cast it with the proper energy descriptor. They also get either (Mass) Cure or Inflict Wounds depending on their and their god's alignment. The idea is that they'll get slightly fewer base spells known to compensate for the amount of freely given spells. Druid Nothing strange here. They get Summon Nature's Ally for free, but apart from that it's pretty much identical. They are subject to spell failure, but can treat it as 30% less (as with the cleric, the final number is still undecided). Paladin No news here. They'll get to completely ignore spell failure and will still have only half their level as caster level. Ranger As per usual. Ignoring spell failure and have half their level as caster level. Sorcerer A few changes going on here. To differentiate them a bit from wizards I figured to steal the Wilder's Wild Surge class feature and give it to them. Additionally, I'm pondering the idea to build them a separate extra spell list as I will with the specialist wizards (see below), but I'm having problems figuring out which spells I would have on. Additionally, I thought to give them a class feature somewhere in the middle (level 10ish) to let them halve the XP costs of materials and focuses. Wizard Again, some changes. I thought to have the specialization become more like the psion specialization, in that it's mandatory, but doesn't force you into any real restrictions (apart from the spell list differences). Also, like the psion, I figured to add a few class skills to each specialization, but I'm a little at a loss figuring out which skills I should assign. The preliminary chart (aiming for three skills each) is: Abjuration: Disable Device, Search and Use Magic Device. Conjuration: Diplomacy, Sense Motive and Speak Language. Divination: Gather Information, Spot and Listen. Enchantment: Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive. Evocation: Disable Device, Intimidate and Survival. Illusion: Bluff, Hide, Listen and Spot. Necromancy: Bluff, Disguise and Hide. Transmutation: Disguise, Sense Motive and Use Magic Device. A few specializations' additional spell lists are fairly straightforward (Evocation, Enchantment, Divination, Necromancy), while others are a little more tricky. If anyone has any ideas on spells that'd work better as specialization spells than core class spells I'd appreciate it. Currently pondering the Shadow Evocation/Conjuration to be Illusionist restricted, among other things, but I'm having difficulties to draw the lines. So, in summary, what do I need? I'd like some help with suggestions to spells that can be baked together into one spell and how certain spells could be improved with spending more spell points. I intend to take the opportunity to fix brokenish spells as well (mainly as per the suggestions in the Problematic Spells thread over at the Magic forums; if anyone has a link I'd be grateful for having it supplied since I can't seem to find it :(), as well as clean up a few messy powers. If anyone can think of spells that need adapting in order to not be broken under a psionic-like system, I'd love to hear the suggestions as well. I'm also pondering some sort of mechanic to let you use scrolls to temporarily learn a spell (speaking in the time perspective of rounds here, definitely not more), in order to make them more sensible to use and make in a system where the spells you know are set in stone. Finally, suggestions as to how many spells known and spell points the core classes (bard, cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, sorcerer, wizard) should be assigned would be nice as well. I've tinkered with some values, but I'm still unsure if they are even remotely balanced. Thanks for taking the time to read all this, and thanks for any suggestions made. :)
Thomar_of_Uointer 05-05-07, 04:12 PM	The best way to fix the complaint that psionics is limited is to convert the necessary spells over to powers. Bard spellcasting can be replaced with a progression identical to psychic warrior manifesting, a unique power list with new powers, and a class feature that limits energy powers to sonic damage. Rangers and paladins could use a progression identical to a psychic warrior of half their level, but both would use unique power lists with a few new powers.
Naderion 05-06-07, 07:45 AM	I made a spell point system myself and I think it looks mostly like this presented here.
LostMage 05-06-07, 04:25 PM	I think (and, mind you, I just skimmed some parts of this) it looks pretty good. I like the idea of learning spells from scrolls, especially if you made spells hard to come by in general: treasure hords could contain rare spells, which I always thought was just the right treasure for a wizard. What you could do for them would be to have the caster make a spellcraft check against a DC of (10+ 2 x spell level) or whatever DC you think would work. If they make the check, it would take X rounds to make the spell workable, and by every point or so that they beat the DC, it would be one less round to get working.
Tequila_Sunrise 05-07-07, 11:32 AM	The best way to fix the complaint that psionics is limited is to convert the necessary spells over to powers. Bard spellcasting can be replaced with a progression identical to psychic warrior manifesting, a unique power list with new powers, and a class feature that limits energy powers to sonic damage. Rangers and paladins could use a progression identical to a psychic warrior of half their level, but both would use unique power lists with a few new powers. I agree. If your players think that there aren't enough powers, it seems to me that the most direct route to your solution would be to create more powers. P.S. Cure spells really should "logically" be in the necromancy school, but doing so will put a few wrinkles in your game which may pop up from time to time.
Aricandor 05-10-07, 06:05 AM	Thanks for the helpful input thus far. The main idea is the use the basic psionic system, but maintain the generic feeling and flavor of the core arcane/divine magic (mainly the spell schools, verbal/somatic components), since I quite like that. Plus to convert a whole slew of spells to work with a spell point system, of course. I'll add some more stuff as I finish it up now, if for no other reason than to possibly help spark ideas in others who wish to do the same thing. :) Could still use some help with specialization spell lists though. I might just end up letting specialized wizards lower the spell level of certain spells when learning them, since drawing firm lines what's "generic" and "specialized" is so damn hard when working with the arcane spell lists.
Thomar_of_Uointer 05-12-07, 11:48 AM	Could still use some help with specialization spell lists though. I might just end up letting specialized wizards lower the spell level of certain spells when learning them, since drawing firm lines what's "generic" and "specialized" is so damn hard when working with the arcane spell lists. The psion's discipline specialization is elegant and allows for fun with the Expanded Knowledge feat. I would make the psion the new wizard and change the flavor (and you can turn the wilder into the sorcerer and psychic warriors can be battlemages, shamans, and priests/warpriests ("cleric" and "paladin" are silly names anyways)).
LostMage 05-12-07, 04:01 PM	What do you mean by specialization? I thought you would just keep the school specialization, what with the drop two other schools of magic...psionic specialization doesn't work like that at all, does it? If you want specialization, go for wizard archetypes: the mysterious prophet type like in folktales where wizards=telling the future, Circe, where magic is "hoo ha! I turn you into a (insert fun animal), the good old blaster/control nature, ala Prospero from The Tempest, et cetera. This also makes lotsa room for developing unique magic in your world. Make a broad list of spells, then make multiple spells for each archetype. I'd get into more detail, but I've got to go right now.