Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xeviat-DM 09-25-05, 03:28 AM	Some of you may remember the elemental magic system I'm cooking up; it's still on the drawing board. Recently, after playing some L5R games while taking a D&D break, I decided to make my elemental system a little more traditional, and all but take Void out of the picture. To those that don't remember, the core of my magic system is that all living creatures possess 4 chakra within them, energy centers which serve as the conduit between the body's energy and the world's energy. The strength of one's chakra determines how powerful spells of that element will be when they cast them, and the power of a chakra is related to the character's ability scores. As the chakra grows in strength, the ability scores grow as well. The Air chakra (throat) is tied the character's quickness and awareness. The Earth chakra (base) is tied to the character's stamina and willpower. The Fire chakra (heart) is tied to the character's physical and spiritual power. The Water chakra (center) is tied to the character's coordination and reasoning ability. Interestingly, Fire is easily desided upon: it's Strength and Charisma. Earth's physical is Constitution, while Water's mental is Intelligence. The flaws come in when one realizes that Wisdom fits as Earth and Air's mental stat, while Dexterity fits Water and Air's physical stat. In order to make my system work, I'd need to create two new ability scores. Air needs quickness (formerly a function of Dex) and awareness (formerly a function of Wis): I call these scores Agility (Agi) and Perception (Per). In order to balance these, in addition to splitting a score, some abilities would need to be siphoned away from other scores to retain balance. Here's my preliminary reshuffling of the scores: Strength: Physical power Damage rolls when using a melee weapon or a thrown weapon, and also with launcher weapons designed to utilize high strength. Climb, Jump, and Swim checks. Strength checks for breaking down doors and the like, as well as Bull Rush, Overrun, and Trip checks, as well as for Grapple checks. Dexterity: Coordination and Flexability Melee and Ranged attack rolls. Balance, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Ride, Sleight of Hand, and Use Rope checks. Can be used Defensively to avoid being Tripped. Constitution: Stamina and Health Each roll of a Hit Die. Fortitude saving throws. Concentration checks. Constitution checks to continue excerting tasks, such as running, holding your breath, or going without food and/or water. Agility: Speed and Reflexes Armor Class, provided the character can react to the attack. Reflex saving throws. Initiative checks. Tumble checks; some creatures may use their agility modifier for climb, jump, and swim checks. Intelligence: Reasoning The number of languages you know at the start of the game. The number of skill points gained each level. Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Heal, Knowledge, and Search checks. Wisdom: Mental Resiliance and Instincts Will saving throws Autohypnosis, Profession, and Survival checks. Perception: Senses and Awareness ? Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot checks. Charisma: Mental and Spiritual Power Checks made to ward spirits (think of it as the "every-man's turning", similar to how one can ward a vampire by holding up a mirror or a holy symbol, only with charisma checks now) Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device checks. As you can see, the current problem is that I cannot come up with an ability for the Perception stat other than its skills. Unlike Charisma in standard D&D, which has enough related skills to not really need an ability, I've given it an ability. The only ability I can think of to give to Perception is Initiative; Agility might have enough abilities as it is. In return, I could have a character's Speed be a function of their Agility (+5 feet per +1 mod); this would have it inadvertantly grant bonuses to balance, climb, jump, move silently, and swim, like I want. But many of my players don't think that making Initiative a function of Perception is a good idea; are there any ideas out there?
FlameLover 09-25-05, 04:29 AM	This is very similar to the speration of skills in Arcanum except they got rid of Dexterity and replaced with with Beuty. I don't mind the idea of Agility and Perception as stats but i think characters are often already stretched enough for good stats. But the basics seem good to me, although there are probably some areas where this could be used to make an uber character.
Xeviat-DM 09-25-05, 04:39 AM	Because the system will allow for broadened ability score development over the course of a character's career, I'm less worried about ability scores being spread too thin. Largely, a physical ability score based character can focus on Dex and Agi or Str and Con. But because all ability scores impact on all characters to some degree, I'm not so worried about extensive min-maxing. Any suggestions on what to fill the hole of Perception? PS: I think "beauty" is realistically a function of physical traits that show off health (con) as well as traits which will make a person a better parent, provider, or protector. If a woman, for instance, thinks a buff man is attractive, someone with high str, dex, and con will be attractive to them. If a man, on the other hand, likes danty, petite women, then a woman with low strength, and high dex and con will be attractive. Charisma is a measure of how someone works with what they have; a person with high charisma may have more friends, but if their con is 6 (meaning they're sickly, and quite possibly suffering from several marking diseases), those friends probably aren't looking for romantic friendship. Long paragraph short: I don't think a beauty ability score is necessary (though I know that wasn't your suggestion).
Gilean 09-25-05, 11:03 AM	In one of my games reaction is a function of perception. The players had some problems with it, though. You could move survival to perception. Gather information might work there, too. Combat reflexes is a function of agi, right?
Nor'Morgwae 09-25-05, 04:06 PM	You could adapt certain special abilities to utalize Perception istead of the mechanic they currently use. Scent, for instance could be turned into a skill instead an ability. You could even allow Detect spells to simply make the character capable of detecting the sunject, not neccesarikly granting success athen the Perception skill is used to actually determine what the character detects. For instance, Detect Evil instead of simply lighing up evil grants the character a sense that is responsive to evil. The character then uses this new sense, based on perseption, to detect evil. The greater the evil, the easier it is to sense. If you do that I would suggest making the detect spells a fixed duration instead of concentration. Appraise might also fall under perception, at least for certain uses (i.e. determining the quality of a gem)
Xeviat-DM 09-25-05, 06:49 PM	Many spells will utilize Perception, just like I'm making many spells utilize the other scores too (spells which allow magical attack rolls like tk use Int, Wis will grant bonus MP, and Charisma could grant bonus save DCs), and a few class abilities will be switched to using it (monk AC bonus will be from Perception for one). But I still need something that all characters will have, not just spellcasters or members of certain classes. Sorry for being so difficult.
Xeviat-DM 09-27-05, 12:39 PM	I just got a vote for Initiative being moved to Perception, with the explaination being that reaction time is more of a function of your perception than your physical speed. I can see it being related to both, as I can see Reflex saves being related to both, but it might be a fair trade to move Initiative to Perception. Any votes on it? Currently I have 2 for and 2 against (I'm added to that pool of numbers), but I'd like some more votes on it.
Arcade 09-27-05, 01:15 PM	You could definitely use it for initiative rolls. I also think using it for illusion spells would be appropriate. And most wisdom based skills should likely be moved here as well. You could consider something completely different for it as well, like a modified action points. Only use the action points to affect die rolls. Most d20 rolls could be chalked up to enhanced perception. Considering perception to control intuition would fall into this category as well.
Xeviat-DM 09-28-05, 05:18 PM	Which Wisdom skills do you think fit it? At first glance, only Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive immediately jump out at me as appropriate. Making it Intuition as well (and labling Wisdom as mental resilience and instinct) means the Profession could move to it, but I'm not sure.
Arcade 09-29-05, 08:46 AM	Actually, looking over the list, perhaps the only other one is Survival. Profession is appropriate to either one, but you might as well leave it in Wisdom. Of course if you do that, there aren't any decent wisdom skill left since you moved heal to int.
Xeviat-DM 09-30-05, 03:16 AM	Profession will stay Wisdom, as Wisdom is about experience and "wisdom". I think Heal is more of a Knowledge based thing than an instinctual thing; are doctors smart or insightful? As for Wisdom not having many good skills, it has Autohypnosis. Additionally, the score is a Defensive score, and like my Agility (which currently only has the Tumble skill) it is lacking skills. I think I'm confident with Initiative being Perception now. Thanks.
dragonman407 10-01-05, 10:58 PM	Wow! I am surprised that I am just now noticing this thread. Looks like you decided to add perception and I agree with using it to determine initiative. About the skills, I was toying with the idea of making some skills go with multiple ability scores after seeing a thread about coming up with a more usefull role of Charisma. I came up with the idea of using witchever score is highest, wisdom or charisma, for will saves. You could do the same with some skills. I am not sure if that is balanced or not, I'm just throwing ideas out. Also, what does this do to the bonus you get to chakras? do both scores contribute to chakra scores? p.s. I got in FlameLover's top quote list! Yay! :D
Xeviat-DM 10-04-05, 12:07 AM	Your ability score modifier to your chakras will be determined by taking the average of the physical ability and the mental ability modifiers tied to that chakra; at least that is what I think I'll do for now, it all depends on how caster level will be determined in the end. One small thing I'm working on right now. Magic of Incarnum gave me a great idea to better explain why certain magic items are best made for certain slots. Coincidentially, there are 9 magic item slots (not counting rings or armor): Head, Eyes/Face, Neck, Shoulders, Arms, Hands, Chest, Waist, and Feet. This is great for me since there can easily be two points tied to each chakra, and then one for void. For example, if the 5 primary chakra are located along the spine like in the standard beliefs, those could be Void and the four body slots tied to the mental ability scores. Head is Int (headband), Neck is Wis (necklace), Shoulders is Cha (cloak), and Face/Eyes could easily be Perception (goggles most likely). The only problem is that those don't really fit in with the chakra as I like to describe them. I like these: Third Eye is Void, Throat is Air, Heart is Fire, Center (Stomach) is Water, Base (Tailbone/Hips) is Earth. If anyone has any ideas to help me with this, that would be awesome.
HiQKid 10-06-05, 10:50 PM	I would think a monks bonus to ac might be based on perception VS wisdom, but maybe not. Also, i'd say have agility be for initiative, but allow a feat or something that gives perception to ac.
Xeviat-DM 10-09-05, 04:17 AM	I would think a monks bonus to ac might be based on perception VS wisdom, but maybe not. I don't know what you mean by this. Perception is the Air mental stat, as is Agility. Air is a defensive element, but defensive through avoidance, not enduring (earth is enduring). If you think Initiative should be physical, what should be perception's ability? I don't mean to sound confrontational, just that I need something for it, and am taking all ideas.