Post/Author/DateTime	Post
syrinth 02-22-07, 03:49 AM	Hey everyone, I'm trying to figure out a way to get rid of +ability items in my game(like headband of intellect+2) because I'm sick of those things being practically necessary. I figure that the best way to do this would be to give additional bonus ability points. What I'm thinking is two at levels four, eight, twelve, sixteen and twenty as well as one at six, seven, ten, eleven and fifteen. Now, assuming that that works, I need to figure out a formula to make a cap on that so that you can't get crazy ridiculous stats too quickly. There's probably something really easy that I'm missing but any thoughts on any part of this idea would be nice. :D
Tyler Do'Urden 02-22-07, 07:09 AM	That's way too many. Unless your PCs are in the habit of spending nearly all their wealth on their stats, one ability point every even level makes up for the absence of ability boosting items.
syrinth 02-22-07, 04:01 PM	But if we do that then they can only choose to "have" a +5 item in one ability at the most. That would really hurt casters since they couldn't "get" the boost to their casting stat and their con which is why I put in the additional ones. :\
Krusk 02-22-07, 07:35 PM	You could look at the level your players usually buy the +2 stat item. then where they buy the +4 stat and the +6 stat. level what 6, 10 and 14? Grant every character a favored stat. Said favored stat gets +2 at 6th level +4 at 10 and +6 at 14th. Give out less treasure as though they had purchased the item.
FoxmanFX 02-23-07, 11:59 AM	if your running a 45 point build you need less stat boosting items than if you had a 22 point build. Really the need for stat boosting items or bonuses depends on where your start from. I would suggest every odd level as a rule of thumb. If you want to get into it, cannot put it into the same stat two times in a row. Odd levels also give the fighter something to look forward to: Stat/Feat/Stat/Feat/...
johniemi 03-08-07, 04:26 AM	I suggest you look at d20 Conan: Atlantean Edition, it's a low magic world and ability scores go up with a nice way. I cant remember exactly but I think it was one score every 3rd level, and ALL scores go up by one point every five levels or so. Of course, this is in an extremely low-magic world, and in standard D&D I can see gishes benefiting heavily if stat boosting items are left out as they can still boost their stats via spells... forget bull's strength when you have Bite of the Werebear in Spell Compendium, I think it was +8 to CON, +16 STR and a nice natural AC bonus as well. -John
EyeontheMountain 03-09-07, 07:17 AM	My game is similar to the OPs. I do not allow stat boosting items above +2 and those cost double. The party gets a +1 to any stat at every even level, and so far it has not been a problem. We also play gestalt, so the MAD is higher, so players seem to be less inclined to boost one stat to the stars. I would recommend it.
Jarii246 03-09-07, 04:01 PM	Isn’t there something in the rules about the stats? Like the highest stat a player can have are 20 plus or minus racial bonuses/penalties?
strenoth 03-09-07, 05:29 PM	nope. Starting off you are limited to 18 via point buy or rolling dice, and that stat is then modified by race, but after that, there's no upper limit on any one or anything.
Xeviat-DM 03-09-07, 05:49 PM	Take a look at what they grant with the Vow of Poverty feat as a baseline:+8 to one, +6 to another, +4 to another, and +2 to the last. Now, that's technically out of the reach of a normal character, but it's a good progression. At 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th, have the player choose an ability score. They get a +2 bonus to that score, and a +2 bonus to all previously chosen scores. That way, no one can abuse things and put all of the bonuses in one score. Maybe you could replace the core +1 ability score point every 4 levels for this. But, the problem is that you are going to need to reduce the equipment characters have because of this, otherwise they're going to funnel more gp into other equipment, such as weapons and armor, and this will slightly unbalance the games. I like the idea of making people less reliant upon equipment, but I think Wizards is already starting to explore alternatives (check out some of the new design and development articles).
Schmendrick 03-11-07, 02:28 PM	If it's just the flavor of the items you blanch at, just give them a natural "inherent" (per the English definition, not the game mechanic) bonus to the stats they'd otherwise have bought items for. Decrease treasure accordingly (just off the top of my head, I'd treat things as 75% cost).
AquaticSpaceChicken 03-11-07, 11:30 PM	What about 1 point per level after first, to be spent as if by point buy? So going from 13 to 14 would cost 1 point, but 14 to 15 would cost 2 points, and 17 and above would cost 3 points per step.
Krusk 03-12-07, 02:46 AM	Im gonna assume you can save points up using this method? if so sounds like a decent system to me. your going to have lots of 14s though, and not too many 24s. something to think about when you design everything.
AquaticSpaceChicken 03-13-07, 08:44 AM	your going to have lots of 14s though, and not too many 24s. something to think about when you design everything. That's true. I had a point gain system kind of like that in 2e, and it worked well because 8-14 basically meant nothing. Characters tended to bring up their abysmally low stats or work on their high ones (the cost at the upper end didn't top out at three; it was more expensive to bring up a stat past 18). Doing this in 3e would be good for MAD characters, but not so much for SAD characters.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-14-07, 03:07 PM	I've seen this one before. What you do is change bonus feats to one every odd-numbered level, and change ability score increases to every third level. This works well in a low-magic campaign with heavy focus on the players' resources (so you give the PCs approximately half as much treasure as they should have).
johniemi 03-14-07, 05:11 PM	Again I'm saying what I said before... Look at the way it's done in an another low-magic d20 system; Conan - Atlantean Edition. No need to make up houserules and then ponder on whether they are balanced or not. I would believe that the Conan system designers have put more effort in balancing the stat rules than most gm's put in their whole campaign ;) Heck, if you can't borrow/buy/loan a copy of the Conan rulebook I can write out the stat increase system on this thread, just let me know. -John
AquaticSpaceChicken 03-15-07, 09:00 AM	The Conan thing does look pretty nice for a low magic campaign that lacks stat boosting items: I suggest you look at d20 Conan: Atlantean Edition, it's a low magic world and ability scores go up with a nice way. I cant remember exactly but I think it was one score every 3rd level, and ALL scores go up by one point every five levels or so. I like that ALL scores go up every 5 levels. I'm always eyeing some low tertiary stat my characters has that I'd like to bring up for roll-playing reasons, but the primary or secondary stats always win the day. So, Conan would work out to +4 to each stat over 20 levels, plus another +6 that can be added anywhere. So one stat could end with a +10 by level 20, which doesn't seem unreasonable in a world where stat boosting items are nonexistant.
syrinth 03-18-07, 09:59 PM	I really like that idea and am currently going to use it. I do have a question though. Won't this really hurt characters with LA and how can I fix it to not hurt the LAd guys even more?
Tequila_Sunrise 03-19-07, 07:57 PM	Question: Are you getting rid of just the Enhancement items, or inherent, sacred, insight, blah blah blah items too?
syrinth 03-19-07, 09:17 PM	There will be no items on the free market that increase stats as long as they are equipped. All spells still function normally, wishes and miracles can be used to increase stats inherently and other magical items could theoretically be procured by finding someone capable of making them.